Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for the Curious.
I am Hamish, your host.
This podcast is for anyone going through awakenings, trying to make sense of life.
Whether dark nights are the soul, needing to make life -changing decisions, struggling with addiction or critical illness, or simply realizing that their life as they know it is
not aligned to values and purpose.
You are not alone.
You can get through this, promise you.
Life is far more beautiful on the other side.
Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of The Crucible Conversations for the Curious.
We've got Mark with us today.
Mark's got a fabulous story.
Mark's been one of these people who's traveled around the world, going to exotic places, working in exotic places, but it took a toll.
Mark, thank you so much for turning up today.
Thanks, Hamish.
Thanks for the introduction to you.
It's great to be here.
Lovely.
Can you tell me a bit about your story and your lifestyle that everyone really aspires to and would love to do what you've done?
Yeah, sure.
Absolutely.
Initially, I was thinking about maybe sort of sharing where I'm at now and then reverse engineering my story because it would sort of be quite interesting to do it that way, but
I'll hold off for now.
So I'm 40 years old.
When I first left the country as in the UK and headed towards tropical destinations, which then became, you know, a huge part of my life, I was 19 years old.
Part of that generation, I guess, that went off backpacking sort of posts.
sixth form college.
And then before they went to university, I went off with three mates and traveled the world as a backpacker and it completely opened my eyes.
When I returned, I went off to university in Plymouth to study sports science with the idea, I think to become a, a PE teacher back in those days, but my family were all
teachers and it was kind of, you know, it was kind of the way that I was going to go.
However, after backpacking, you know, I just, I did, I went with
let's say I wasn't, I was quite not resistant, but I wasn't really all into it.
You know, my eyes have been open so much that I just wanted to get back out and travel the world.
So as soon as as soon as I finished, again, as most students or students are just coming out of uni, have no pennies at all.
Anything you do do is normally put into like, you know, an evening out on the tiles or whatever it is, there's definitely no saving.
So I had to think outside the box about how I was going to get out and see the world.
So coming from Hampshire.
and Southampton being nearby, had all these great big cruise liner headquarters there.
So I applied for a job to go off on the Queen Mary 2 with Cunard, which I got as a cocktail bartender.
actually, funny enough, I thought I would just walk up the gangway there in Southampton and off we go because it's transatlantic, the QM2, but actually they flew me to New York
to board it.
And I didn't realize at the time when I was walking up that gangway,
at Brooklyn Harbor that this was going to be the start of almost a 15, 16 year expatriate lifestyle that I was embarking on.
And then I did the cruise ship for a year.
And then I did a couple of ski seasons working in luxury ski chalets and doing Mediterranean sort of work in the summertime.
then Thailand was a big pull to me for my backpacking days.
That was a country that really stood out to me.
I just had a fabulous time there.
I absolutely fell in love with the country.
And it was a big dream of mine.
In fact, I had said to my backpacking pals when we left moving on to Singapore and Australia, I said, I'm going to come back and work here one day.
I didn't realize that at the time, but that's probably one of the strongest law of attraction statements I've ever made.
So much so that, fast forward, I think 14 years later, my son was actually born on the island that I said that comment on.
Strange isn't that?
The things that you put out into the cosmos.
Anyway, I I took a one way ticket to Thailand, took a big gamble, big risk as a 24 year old, little bit of savings in the bank, but not a lot, probably enough to give me about
six weeks to, to, to see if I could make a life.
And I landed a job at a yacht marina managing a, you know, upmarket restaurant, let's say.
And I was picked up by one of the bigger resorts, that saw talent in me, I guess, about six months later.
And then this kind of really
awesome career started in luxury hospitality.
That took me right through until I left as a father with two children.
My son was born in Thailand, my daughter's born in Bali.
So that was my career, if you like, but there's a lot more to it in terms of what I was actually getting up to and what was the real pull for me to get back out and see the
world?
What was I really fishing for?
Fabulous.
Well, tell us more because I mean that that just sounds so glamorous.
I'm gonna start up it again That is fabulous.
Tell us more about it because that that lifestyle going out getting a job on the yachts.
That's so sexy I went to Thailand in 1992.
So I'm sure my age a bit and It was Remarkable country so I can really understand why you wanted to go back there.
Yeah, so tell us a bit more about the
the guts of it.
Sure.
So I think it's quite, when I try to sort of like digest all of this, when I look back at your life as you do sometimes, you know, especially as you mature and you start to sort of
understand maybe what your core values are and what you're actually trying to achieve in younger days and how that kind of materializes.
And one of the biggest core values I've got, I guess, one of the strongest is freedom.
So much so that, sound a bit silly saying this, but I've actually got it tattooed on my chest.
I've got spirit of freedom, which again is a,
tattoo that I had done, I think I was 25, was just literally a few months after I was dating my now wife.
And we got a bit, we were a bit tipsy one day and ended up in a tattoo chair.
And she had the name of the beach done that we were staying on and I had that spirit of freedom.
So it was quite a sort of sporadic, intuitive thing that I did.
But actually fast forward to where I am now, I look at that and that spirit of freedom means so many different things to me now.
But at the time, what it meant was that sense of, you know, flying the wings, seeing the great big world, kind of doing what I wanted to do, if that makes sense, not having to
answer to anybody, just following my intuition, following the poor of whatever made me happy, right?
I was very much, I still am to some degree, but I think with responsibility and maturity, know, things get a bit harder to be so...
living in the moment in the present moment.
But certainly back in the day, I was living week to week, month to month, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't looking anywhere as far as I just was that, you know, I just
wanted to be living in an environment which made me happy, such as the tropics, I wanted a social life, which was vibrant and exciting.
The more I changed and adapted and grew from being in those types of environments, you know, starting, as I said, as a backpacker.
just gave me a much more, I felt gave me a much more rounded perspective of the world, the planet that we live on, the different cultures.
So as I arrived to, you know, Thailand, for example, when I first started on the ships, I had all of that.
but then there was that excitement of being young of the party side of it.
And, you know, as I said, I was just a socialite.
I just wanted to have fun and meet people.
And of course, what came of that was the, you know, the
not so healthy side of things, let's say.
So I drank heavily mainly because of the party scene, not because I ever felt like I needed a drink, but it was just part of the culture that I was in, you like, attending
beach clubs on a regular basis or going to pool villa parties, all of that, all of the stuff that you can imagine an expat living in the tropics to get up to.
I smoked, which to this day, so many people that meet me now
surprised by because, you know, by profession, I'm a solo -preneur, I help men transform their lives from a health perspective.
it's really, it's quite, it's hard for people to swallow when they sort of see that mark now as a 40 year old kind of healthaholic, if you understand, to understand that had that
transformation, but
Yeah, that was a big pull.
was was what I was after back in those days.
I was after excitement.
I was after partying.
I was after meeting people.
I after being able to tell stories.
And it was was an amazing it was amazing sort of life as while it lasted.
Yeah, I can well imagine.
Yes, I lived in Cape Town for a long while and there is that kind of lifestyle when you, you, you sort of, kind of belong, but you kind of don't, don't you?
You're sort of just sort of sitting there and it's, it's not that you are not a part of that society, but you feel slightly dispossessed.
And also, as you said, very much, it is party, it is fun, it is hard work and play hard.
It's a real combination.
So you've alluded to the playing hard and the working hard bit.
What else were you doing?
So you were running the bars, you were running the helping with the ships.
What else were you doing there?
So before I went to Asia, when I was working on the cruise ship and then doing the ski seasons, as I said, the ski seasons, for example, I was managing a luxury chalet, but for
a very high end company, quite a private company in terms of the manifest of clientele that would come and stay.
The same sort of clients that would then go on and charter a super yacht in the summer, just to give you perspective.
I was managing, that's why I had a team, you the chef, the chauffeur.
housekeeper and you know, we were a cluster of chalets within that kind of portfolio.
So talking about a team of maybe 50 people, you know, if you're looking at the whole cluster.
So of course that doing a ski season, we were young in our twenties, you know, there was that side to it where you were working hard and actually, actually, you know, having a
really good career to a certain degree and really interesting career.
But then there was the other side to it, which was that you're always in that kind of holiday environment, that ski season environment, the apres ski environment.
And, know, I remember.
I would quite often, five times out of the seven days in the week, I reckon, be in a bar until three in the morning.
And I'd be up at six in the morning before the clients of the villa, or the chalet rather, had got up to serve them breakfast, to help the chef get the croissants in the oven and
get all of the juices out on the table and set everything.
I'm looking back at it now, I just don't know how I did it.
I was literally surviving on fumes half the time.
That was kind of what I was doing there.
And then when I went out to Asia, things started to get a little bit more serious.
Like said, I was working for a luxury resort company, very well known.
And they've done incredibly well as a company since I worked for them in terms of their portfolio, international now.
But when I worked there, was similar story, really.
I was managing really flagship restaurants.
So I had this kind of front of house figure.
to put on and personality to put on show.
And then on the, as soon as I was out of uniform, you know, I was riding a motorcycle straight into the neon lights of the party town on the island.
was living in Phuket at the time.
and just having the most outrageous fun and lifestyle, know, it was really, really, it was really, really, I wouldn't change it for the world, Hamish, honestly, I wouldn't, you
know, I look back at it now and just think, wow, I was making some very unhealthy decisions, but it was all part of what shaped me.
I met, you know, I met some of the
some of the best friends I've ever, you know, ever come across in terms of characters.
When I was out there, I met my, my French wife in Phuket.
She was working in the, in the resorts as well.
So, like I said, so many good things come of it, but there was definitely moments in there, which were quite dark.
I got myself into some really hairy situations just because of being kind of a little bit, you know, intoxicated, let's say.
And a country like Thailand can be quite dangerous if you make yourself vulnerable in those types of situations.
So can get yourselves into some real tricky situations.
I as I'll give you one example, I guess, in inverted commas, arrested and taken to a police station one night for being slightly over the limit.
I was pulled over, it was when I was managing the restaurant at the yacht marina and there was some international crew that were in there that worked on a super yacht and they
insisted that they wanted me to do a shot with them as I closed the restaurant.
I had, you know, I had a drive to do afterwards back to where I was living.
And I knew, you know, it potentially put me over, but I was young and silly and made, I just, did the shot.
I hadn't been drinking otherwise, but it was enough to put me over.
I got pulled over at a checkpoint anyway, which was quite unusual at the time.
And I ended up doing a night in a, in a police cell and which then snowballed into this really messy situation where I ended up basically almost in immigration jail about to be
deported.
Cause I'd had to go to court.
And the company that I was working with for at the yacht marina managed to, again, sort of basically bribe to get me out of the situation because they had connections within the
immigration.
So, but that was a really scary moment.
You know, I was actually spent one night in a cell and I spent a full sort of almost like a full day and evening in a holding cell with other Thai prisoners and that were waiting
to go into a court hearing.
And it was, I didn't know whether I was about to be deported.
My whole life and dream that I'd set out to get to Thailand was about to be
taken from me in a moment, you But I've got loads of stories like that or similar like that just because I was being a bit silly half the time, know, and not really putting much
enough thought into the dangers maybe of some of my decision making.
Yeah, I hear you.
I want to push forwards a little bit because I know that exercise and working out and being physical has always been really important to you.
Can you talk me through about that?
Because I know that also got slightly out of balance as well, didn't it?
All through those years that we've just been discussing, my 20s or even late teens, 20s through to my early 30s, I exercised vigorously.
I, it started because, like, as I said, used to do, I used to be sporty, did sports science at uni, right?
And I was going to be a PE teacher, as I mentioned.
So sport and kind of fitness, I guess, had always been a part of me since I was a teenager, growing up, I was sports captain at school.
That was a big part of my, my sort of like makeup, if you like, growing up.
And then when I got to uni, think like a lot of students do in that first year, they go out and, you know, they're eating kebabs at night time, away loads of pints of and sugary
cocktails and shots in the student bar and they go home at Christmas and they suddenly go, hang on a sec, what's, you know, their family and all of their homemates are saying you've
put on a few kilos here.
And I kind of went through that process and that was the first time I'd ever thought like that.
And I was like, okay, I need to run this off.
that, is how it started.
So when I went back to uni, I had access to a gym and I hit the treadmill as most people do in, which I can get onto later if you like, but this is for me, this is one of the
biggest misconceptions is like using exercise as a tool for weight loss, but that's a different story.
But that was my approach at the time, which was to, to jump on a treadmill and just run off all this weight that I'd gained.
And
What I didn't realize I was doing, but I was basically giving birth to what ended up being a really quite chore like addiction to exercise and a really cruel mindset as well.
or not mindset, but it's a real cool belief is what I mean.
Belief system that I had about that I must run three or four times a week, for example, vigorously, like 10 K or 12 K like huffing and puffing type running just to be able to
control my aesthetics.
And that's what it was all about.
I'm being totally transparent and raw.
which I'm very happy to do as a mature man, maybe not back in the day is that that's what it was all about.
It was all about looking good at t -shirts, you know, being able to show off a, you know, a muscular body six pack or whatever it was.
That's what I was interested in the most.
You know, it was certainly wasn't about health.
You know, why would I be going and smashing a load of pints and smoking mobile lights on the side, right?
If that's it, if I was worried so much about health.
So that was kind of my journey that I went into.
let's say early 20s started to lift weights as well.
I was really like anybody that goes through that process for the first time.
So I can actually start to put on some biceps and my chest is growing, my legs are growing, whatever.
So that also became a not really an addiction, but something that I was driven by.
And then fast forward, keep going, keep going.
It just everything started to become more and more.
heavy, I guess, in terms of the burden I put myself into to the point where I was probably at my worst when it came to exercise in terms of how much I was doing when I was probably
in my early 30s, believe it or not.
And I got to a point where I was using the gym five or six times without fail a week.
was doing heavy lifting sessions.
I was running every other day.
If I missed my every other day run, I would give myself a hard time mentally.
and not just a hard time, like, you, you've had a shocker or you, you know, you're lazy.
I would literally be like, you know, almost like sort of like pinching around the waist.
You know, this is like, like, as if out of fear of gaining fat, you know, it's a really not, not a pleasant place that I was in.
and I just did it.
I didn't really realize how quite, bad it was.
interesting speaking to my wife now and speak into maybe, yeah, not so much friends, but maybe some family members who really saw me like, know, but for example, going away on a
holiday.
or going away for a time where you're supposed to be switching off and spending time with loved ones.
But I was more concerned about getting my arrow in the gym, otherwise I'd be in a grumpy mood all day, you know, or snappy or, you know, barking at people that you don't want to
bark at, know, not that you ever want to bark at anybody, it was, it was, when I looked back at it, it was a really, it was an addictive, head space that I was in.
And it was fueled, as I said, by this kind of like weird.
conversations that you have in your head about how you want to come across to the world.
Does that answer your question?
Does that give you...
Yeah.
It very much does.
And it's scary because I'm very curious.
When were you more angry and agitated and unkind to family?
it when you hadn't done that exercise or after you'd been to the gym?
So basically pre -satiation or post that workout?
When did your mood really shift?
Yeah, it's just a really great question because the answer is that there's so many nuances to it.
So I'll try and give you a couple of examples.
let's say for example,
Let's say it was a random midweek night, okay?
And in my head, I'd already programmed the gym session in the morning.
Now, if me and my wife had gone out for dinner in the evening and it was supposed to be a dinner, like a candlelit dinner, and I'm going to be home by a certain time and pretty
chilled out and whatnot, that was what I would have in my head just as an example,
Now life happens, let's say my wife was in a really good mood.
She was in an excitable mood and we were having a really good, dinner and the ambience was going, let's say it was in a Mexican restaurant.
So the flavor started picking up and the music picked up and, come on, let's have another cocktail.
that's that, that type of situation because of that, because in my head I would have been in, you know, I wanted to do that gym session in the morning.
I would have started getting grumpy in that situation, right?
Because I'd have been like, you're going to push me to the fact that
I'm not going to end up going to the gym in the morning.
I know that's going to really pee me off and it's going to roll on to the next few days.
That's how significant it was.
mean, that's when I even say, I never said that to my wife, by the way, it's something that I live with inside my own head.
But this is like that was like a real situation about how it affected me just enjoying life, if that makes sense, just like living in the present moment and enjoying life.
And then there's other moments where we could have been on a
you know, it could be whatever it is on a certain day hours or, you know, just doing some kind of like life chore or admin's supermarket or something.
And again, I wanted, I programmed in a gym session later on in the day, something or else had happened or she wanted to change the plan or work had made me change the plan.
It's always my wife, by the way, I'm throwing under the bus.
But let's say it was a work, work, something that had, you know, changed the plan and I would get frustrated in that situation too.
Where just, just to show you the complete other side of the spectrum.
spectrum, is where I am today.
I have all of that thought process and feelings, emotional attachment I had to long gone.
They've been gone for years because I've had a massive shift in the way of massive paradigm shift in the way that I approach things.
I don't train in any fixed day patterns anymore.
Even that alone just takes all of that away.
I go with the flow and I also listen to my body.
When I say go with the flow, I appreciate life a lot more these days.
Life's for living, right?
And what's the whole point of exercise and trying to keep ourselves fit and well is one to promote, you know, health span and longevity, right?
So we get more time to have fun.
And the other moment is to actually be, you know, to have that real vitality and that, I guess that prowess in your own skin, that kind of natural confidence that we all deserve
to have.
is why I like to think of exercise now, right?
So it's not, it's not about, you know, am I going to miss my set of bicep curls?
How silly that sounds these days, you know?
So if something, if the similar situation happened now, I would just let it go and just enjoy the moment and just say, no worries.
I'll pick it up tomorrow.
or like said, I don't even just do some kind of little burst of exercise later in the day when I get an, again,
opportunity, not necessarily an exercise gear, know, just something to keep the body ticking over.
this, the whole spectrum has changed completely.
But I was in a very, very, as I said earlier, I think the word cruel is the right word to use, because it was self inflicted, but I just didn't realize quite how bad it was at the
time.
Yeah, scary isn't it?
How did you realize that you were, as you said, you're being cruel to yourself?
Because that's brutal.
Yeah, I think...
There's a couple of big aha moments that happened to me.
think I'll start with probably the heaviest one, which was sickness.
So I'd always sort of like being proud of being supposedly fit and healthy.
As we know, I was more fit than healthy.
But I'd always been proud that people had sort of put that tag on me, you know, when I was in my twenties.
I'm not always, he always looks fit, right?
But then what I'd...
obviously found out moving towards into the latter part of my twenties, early thirties is that clearly I wasn't healthy.
You know, that was showing up in different ways at the time.
I'll probably say the most significant way was my physical energy was appalling outside of the gym.
So I was pushing myself so hard on the treadmill on runs and also the late, the weights that I was lifting that I was
I was just depleted the whole time.
was completely depleted.
So that from a physical point of view, you I'm talking about like feeling like much older than I should have done when I wake up in the morning, you know, stiff and creaky because
of the, the amount of exercise that I was doing.
So I was walking around, you know, like a cowboy sometimes, you know, when I should be like mobile and fluid and just enjoying life.
You know, and sometimes sort of like look at a staircase and think, not sure if I fancy this, you know, which is
really odd when you think that I was making all this effort to be fit and well, right?
So those kind of thoughts started coming into play, like, surely I shouldn't be feeling like this all the time.
Other things came into play that are quite famous for people that lift weights or these kind of symptoms, like such as noticing, you know, moods, like I've always, I've always
sort of considered myself to be quite stable when it comes and consistent when it comes to moods.
I noticed and I picked up on that
moods where could sometimes be quite low after heavy lifting, for example, or short tempered, as I said, and this is not just to do I mean, obviously, could link this to
hangovers and things as well.
But I would, I felt that I really felt that kind of drain that had come from lifting heavy metal, if that makes sense, or too much metal for your nervous system.
But where it really showed up was when I was a kid, right through right through basically up until I've had this transformation in mid 30s, I always suffered from bonkitis.
in the wintertime.
once I went to the tropics, kind of subsided a little bit.
It would come out now and again.
Maybe if I'd had like, again, too many party nights in a row, smoking and things like that, might come on.
But this one time, I got the really nasty chest infections and I had to some antibiotics.
Didn't go, had to take a second course of antibiotics.
Didn't go and it started to get really, really like...
quite worrying.
It was a really, really rough chest infection I had.
one important part of this story is that during that whole period, now, let's say a good two and a half weeks of struggling with this infection, I continued to train.
And not only was I training, but I was doing at this time, I went through this period of what I thought.
I thought I'd found this amazing golden ticket, which most people know as HIIT training, high intensity interval training, which again, I
happily explain the dangers when it's mismanaged.
And I always continue to do these HIIT training sessions while I had this really bad chest infection, bronchitis, right?
And my, my thought process at the time was like, you're sweating out, you're sweating out the toxins and you're sort of like giving your body a run over to sort of like strengthen
it, which of course, absolute nonsense.
I couldn't be further from the truth.
I'm doing is suppressing my immune system.
So it's got absolutely nothing to do to fight back to the infection.
What happened is that then turned into pneumonia.
And this was a real wake up call for me.
because I, like I said, even though I knew I wasn't necessarily healthy because of the drinking and the partying and the smoking and things like that, by this point I'd given up
smoking, by the way, I was this, was probably about 33 at the time.
And yeah, yeah, I was just like, okay, I don't get pneumonia.
know, that's that, you know, that kind of thought, you know, where you think you're immortal.
know, and as you get a little bit older, that starts every year, it gets a little bit softer and softer and weaker and weaker in terms of that thought process of being
invincible.
And I just had that moment I was like, so you're something's not going right here, you do all of this training, you do all of this physical fitness, but you know, you can't even
shake off a cough, and it's now turning to pneumonia, what's going on?
So so that encouraged me to delve deeper.
which I certainly did.
Just for your listeners, the transition that I went through after that, left Asia, we left Asia as a family in 2019.
For a number of reasons, by the way, it was not because we suddenly had decided that we had enough of Asia.
was mainly because of the children.
After our son was born, my wife had, sorry, before my daughter was born, what I mean to say, my wife stopped working and...
We weren't actually married out in Asia just because we hadn't got around to it.
was complicated to organize a big wedding for our European family to come to Asia.
So when we arrived in 2019 back to France initially, we weren't married and then Brexit happened and COVID happened.
So there was kind an admin headache there.
But prior to us leaving the admin headache was the fact that I couldn't actually sponsor my wife through my work, if that makes sense, because we weren't married.
in terms of visas.
So we were surviving, were getting around it, but it meant really an inconvenient travel from time to time for my wife.
And it all kind of added up to the point where we just like, okay, let's just go back and be a bit closer to family.
It was a really big call.
You know, it was tough because we didn't really deep down want to leave.
But we did.
And when I got back, I used the moment as a platform for deep introspection.
You know, at time I was 35, I'd had this
quite glamorous, as I said, luxury hospitality career.
In post 30, I had gotten more into high performance rather than front house hospitality.
I was working with sales teams and I was lucky enough to be subsidized through lots of high performance kind of coaching badges.
So that had opened up lots of doors and kind of visions for the future.
lit me up basically.
Anything to do with self -development.
and improving yourself and also high performance, cognitive function, all these things lit me up.
It's really what made me excited.
So that was there that had been similar in way anyway.
But when I got back, I sort of went back to the drawing board and said, okay, I could go and just try and find a job, you know, back in a similar industry, or I could use this as
a moment to really dig deep and find out what I want to do and what my purpose is and what, how I'm going to serve, as I said earlier, humanity, which sounds really deep.
But at the end of the day, if we can plug into that then.
I believe life sort of starts to fall into place.
And that's what I did.
And I didn't realize at the time what I was going to do exactly.
And I was kind of almost like asking the cosmos for answers, like free meditation and symbols and everything.
was really sort of really going for it in terms of like, give me that kind of moment, give me that epiphany moment, if that makes sense.
And it kind of went on for a few months actually.
And
It came to me one day like a, like a spark, you like a lightning bolt and it was linked to fitness initially.
Okay.
It's been under your nose the entire time.
All of this journey that you've been on, all of the struggles that you've been on, all the lessons that you've learned, all of those hours that you've sweated and slaved away in the
gym, you know, have all meant for something because it's all part of your story and all part of your learning on almost kind of what shouldn't do, how not to do things in a way.
So you can now.
go on and self study and find ways that are actually much more holistic, much more healthy.
And then go on, not only for yourself, not only for me, of course, but then go on to help others basically not go the long route like I did and just cut straight to the prize as it
were.
So that's what I did.
that's when I started to retrain and I am going to get certified in what I needed to, which was, you know, I did some substantial reeducation basically.
I reinvented myself.
And that's all part of a five year journey.
That was when I was around 35 and I said, now I'm 40 now.
So big transformations.
but that was that story about the pneumonia is, was the real big moment that made me sort of like click into gear with all of that.
There's other stuff I could talk about in terms of how I ate, and how I exercise specifically, but that was the real sort of big moment.
It's scary isn't it when you get an awakening like that and you don't join the dots.
I I remember certain things and not joining those dots and yet, why are you going to the gym when you're sick, when you're coughing up your guts?
But we don't link those things up.
We don't realise that it's kind of bonkers.
I know, I know, isn't that the truth?
It's just, I think sometimes we just sort of go into the zone or we can convince ourselves or, you know, just, like I said, don't, looking back, I still, still don't know how I
thought I was so invincible, you know, when I look back at how I lived through my twenties.
I think we all have this kind of ability in our youth, don't we, to, we have a sort of extra battery pack, don't we, when we're in our early twenties and then maybe moving
forward.
But I mean, naturally you start to slow down, but.
Honestly, I just look back and just think, why did I think I was being fit and healthy and this was never going to catch up with me,
Yeah.
No, good for you.
So when did you, were you still drinking when you had the pneumonia?
Were you still smoking then or had you stopped?
Smokin had stopped.
Smokin was something that was always going to stop.
This is something that I talk about with clients a lot actually of mine.
And it's that kind of understanding that process of change.
part of that process, so probably one of the most significant processes awareness, right?
So I'm not sure if you've heard of the transphietical model of change, Where there's sort of a pre
pre -contemplation change, and then there's a contemplation stage and you move on through the kind of like stages of this change as it were, then you actually try action and so on
and so forth.
And I think somebody that's totally oblivious is not going to change anytime soon to whatever that particular unhealthy habit is, right?
And then there's people that just don't want to hear, they're not interested, or they try to kind of cover it up.
Like, you know, my granddad was a smoker and he lived till he was 90.
Those types of comments, why are still in that very early stages, they're not going to be changing anytime soon.
But as soon as somebody starts to have awareness and starts to maybe research how to quit or what it's like to quit or whatever it is, that's your, in my opinion, this is obviously
very subjective, but once you start having that thought process, it doesn't matter whether it's going to take a month or six years or 10 years.
In theory, you should change because you've already taken that step down that up or up that ladder, if you say towards change, just by having the awareness.
so I had had that awareness all the way through my twenties is the point I'm trying to make when it comes to smoking.
Cause I think, you know, hitting the treadmill so often, you know, I was sometimes might have felt tight lungs.
knew that, you deep down, everybody knows who smokes that it's not healthy, however much you try to cover it up.
So I had the awareness and I tried a few times in my mid twenties and failed miserably.
And, you know, the invite, the environment was always tricky when you put in yourself, you're trying to quit something like smoking and you keep putting yourself in party
environments.
You know, it's going to.
be hard, both in terms of a visual perspective, but also if you're starting to drink and whatnot, obviously, decision making is going to be a lot looser.
So anyway, I gave up when I was 30, I want to say 30, maybe 29.
And the drinking continued, although it sort of organically became less and less.
And I guess a lot of people can relate to this, you know, not so many just because of recovery time, work.
And what used to be kind of a kind of drink until three or maybe even five a in Thailand was quite usual.
Bali would then become, you know, kind of adapted a bit like a football player towards the end of their career where they they're not they're not the fast person anymore.
So they kind of adjust their game a bit to sort of daytime drinking rather than night time drinking.
So it's all these those kind of tactics were in play without realizing.
But like I said, we're getting towards around the time my children were born.
I think my
When my wife was pregnant with my daughter, it was past six months.
I always remember it was past six months.
It wasn't quite the last month of the pregnancy, but it was certainly past six months or so.
And I felt quite guilty because my wife was obviously not drinking.
She was heavily pregnant by this point.
And I thought I should probably step up a little bit here and just be a bit more supportive in terms of my own behaviors.
And on top of that, think I'd already been having lots of internal dialogue about my drinking.
I can tell you a story where around that sort of time I'd finished work and I was pushing, I was on babysitting duty and I was pushing a pram up towards my villa after visiting a 7
-Eleven.
This is about four o 'clock in the afternoon.
And I had gone to get myself three or four long net bottles of beer.
And that was a kind of standard at the time.
You that was kind of just how I wrapped up a day.
I'd been at work during the day and I typically finished sort of late afternoon.
And I remember having this moment as the bottles were clinking underneath the pram.
And I kind of questioned myself at the time.
It's like, am I, do I really need these beers?
Is this becoming a little bit of an issue?
So I was already starting to have these kind of thoughts.
And that's when I decided, as I said, six months into the pregnancy or thereabouts, okay, I'm going to go.
completely too total for not forever, but for a little bit.
I gave myself up until the birth of my daughter and I stuck to it pretty good.
And I remember just being totally amazed by how everything changed in terms of my mood, my clarity of thinking, my skin, even though I was lucky because I had a permanent tan, let's
be honest, I was living in Thailand.
All year round, I had this kind of like natural glow that covered up probably a lot of the cracks, if that makes sense.
And then, I noticed that my, my skin was dramatically improved within a week or so of not drinking.
And my, you remember me saying I was working in high performance as well.
So from a coach, both a coach's point of view, but also in terms of how I executed my coaching, if that makes sense, I was just different level.
just went up a gear and
That's when you sort go through these processes, you start to have those little kind of like moments of clarification of how much better it is to make these healthier decisions.
There's no real going back, there?
You sort of just get addicted to that new sense of health and positive vibes.
So it all just started to escalate from there.
And as I said, by the time I had moved back to France and from Asia, I was already well on the way to all of this.
completely transforming.
as I said, I went into education, which just just cemented all of these new learnings and teachings.
And I self -experimented a lot in terms of diet, which I'm happy to talk about as well.
But yeah, that was that was my main sort of moment when I got up to a big change.
I think that's remarkable, this self -awareness that people seem to have of just being aware and making sense of like, I can be a complete knob when I'm drunk or hungover, but
when I have another drink for a few days, people like me and I like me.
And it is nice.
You feel better.
As you said, you're sharper.
You're able to interact with people better.
You're able to do all sorts of things.
And it is, yeah.
two or three days without that stuff going through your system.
And then I guess like me, you realized that it was nicer feeling sober, feeling straighter, feeling sharper, being able to go to the gym when you want to or not, being
able to have those conversations when you just didn't have that blur from the alcohol.
Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
it's like, mean, I can think of times, weeks would go by where I was kind of, I'd never escaped the cloud.
And, know, I was functioning.
I was always functioning.
You know, I was doing really well in my work.
You wouldn't have necessarily, nobody would have noticed at work is, and I'm not saying that I was getting drunk every evening either, know, but just, it was just enough to sort
of like take that edge off, I guess, you know, that I was looking for at the time.
Cause whether it was,
pressures from work or whether it was, like I said, whether it was being trying to be sociable in a very kind of like holiday atmosphere vibe, you know, that you go into all of
these kinds of places, the clickiness of the expatriate lifestyle on these kind of tropical islands, you're almost kind of always feeling like you need to perform, you
always need to, you know, look your best in terms of from a physical point of view, but maybe how you address how you turn up, you know, it was, it's all very, very superficial,
which is
sad really, because it's something that I don't necessarily like to think of myself of.
at the time, that was the world that I lived in.
And I'm not going to say that I never enjoyed it.
As I said earlier, I never regret a lot of those years because there was a lot of fun moments in there, of course.
But definitely the flip side of that, both from being a father, from being a partner, and being professional in what I do as well in terms of that
human element, that connection, especially in the line of work that I do now.
But at the time, like said, it was more high performance coaching.
Now it's obviously more linked to health and lifestyle.
It's really important that I walk the walk, but that's all happened totally naturally.
Like I said, I don't have to force anything.
This has all been a total natural journey.
And that's the beautiful part of it is, know, like it's at the top.
When I had this epiphany of, it's definitely linked to do with fitness.
And it's things to do with this kind of self development, self improvement, maybe intuition, maybe later in the line, maybe I'm 40, I'm 40 now, but maybe when I'm 50, I'll
be working more in a kind of spiritual realm in terms of helping people, like I said, discover what their, what their actual real purpose is, or at least aligned to it so they
can sort of start to open those kind of doors.
This isn't not necessarily going to be the finishing point, right?
But at the moment, at this stage of life, I feel like I'm on a
my journey and the transformation I've had particularly in my philosophy or the philosophy that's helped me.
It's not my philosophy, philosophy that I've learned and that's helped me make this transformation.
It's something that I certainly think the world needs to know about.
And because it will just help so many people overcome both diet and exercise frustrations, like I said, because there's, mean, diet side of thing is well documented in terms of how
people can get really, really, get really
situation to do with how they approach eating.
And that's not only linked to food, but also about how they look as well, of course.
And then there's, and the dangers that are involved in that whole, I mean, there's many, obviously many nuances in that.
But then the exercise thing is a kind of realm that I think is not talked about enough.
Exercises, mean, it's a trillion dollar or pound industry, right?
And a bit like food in terms of we know that food can be
the way it's marketed is not necessarily in favor of our health, let's I think the same can be said about a lot of the health industry, sorry, the fitness industry is what I'm
saying.
But that's not, it's not always necessarily from a, from a manipulative or dark place.
It could be a lot of just misunderstood information or people not understanding quite the dangers of it.
if I could give you a very quick example, if I may, like let's say this is not to demonize spin classes to anybody that's listening by the way, like
It's not, this is nothing to do with demonizedness.
Just understand maybe what too much could look like.
So let's say for example, you've got Barry, who's an executive type.
it's got two children, 10 and 12, know, he's high flying career and he's got, he commutes to work and he's got, he's played spinning is what I'm trying to say.
He's got a of pressure on his shoulders.
Now fair play to him because he's motivated enough to show up to spin classes.
four times a week.
And he comes out of those spin classes full of feel good hormones, right?
Because you know, that kind of run as high that we know so well now run as high as probably again, one of the most misunderstood things that goes on because it kind of makes
it gives us that feeling that we've had great, we've done something great, you know, we've really pushed ourselves and our bodies benefited from it.
But it's actually it's a hormonal thing, right?
So hormonal feeling that we're feeling going on right there to do with dopamine, endorphins, other bits and pieces.
And also let's not forget the collaboration of everybody else kind of like screaming and shouting when you're actually in that environment, right?
But the reality is if I can link this back to my doing my HIIT training during my sickness, not quite as extreme as that, but if you imagine that Barry has got, filling all
of these kitchen sinks of water and he's forgetting to turn the tap off basically, right?
So going into spin class four times a week for 45 minute hour, really intensive.
exercise is just dumping a load more stress onto a very, very stressed body and mind already.
So again, like I said, this is not to demonize it, but what he's doing is depleting himself.
He's making himself more tired.
Okay.
He's making, he's giving himself more issues long -term definitely.
So again, this is not to demonize the exercise.
There's just a better approach of doing things.
So if spin is something that you really liked and it gives him that kind of social aspect, then perhaps once a week would be a much better plan.
And then the other times would be focused more on kind of like low intensity body movement, such as like a brisk walk, for example, or that type of training, a casual swim,
these types of things.
And again, this type of education is something that just doesn't get talked about enough, maybe because of awareness, because people don't realize it.
when you do make these adjustments, sort of life becomes enjoyable again, and you can actually have an exercise routine that doesn't have to batter you to pieces.
that actually promotes you feeling good, makes sort of like revitalizes you.
I always say that to people, you know, you should, if you go out for like a little jog, you should come back thing.
Yeah, that was great.
Almost a bit like, you know, I was joking with a client the other day, used to be a footballer and he was like, you know, I get really bored of jogs.
I can't face doing jogs.
I said, don't have to do jogs, right?
First of all, like I said, you don't want to go into that training zone because it's going to deplete you anyway.
The sort of higher huff and puff type training I'm talking about.
If you went for a gentle jog,
That's going to do the opposite.
should reinvigorate you.
So if you can hold a conversation when you're having a jog with a, with a power or you're running with your dog or whatever, and you can have a chat with the dog or take a phone
call, that's a pretty good zone to being.
Cause you're likely in aerobic training, which is not going to deplete you in that way and drain your energy is going to revitalize you.
So it's trying to, what I said to this guy anyway, about the, he used to be a footballer.
I said, can you remember when you used to warm up for football?
You used to do all these funny little side steps.
You see the high knees.
And it used to be pretty gentle and chilled out, right?
You put no real routine to it.
There was no real pressure on it, but you'd feel good.
You'd feel up for the game, right?
By the time you've been doing that for about 20 minutes, think of it that way.
So rather than finish a 10 hour working day in the city and come home and go, blimey, I've got to go out on a October dark night, you know, in the sideways rain and huff and puff
for the next hour.
Just take that approach.
Do something that's much lighter, but makes you feel good and reinvigorates you.
And you're going to be much better off by adding that into your fitness arsenal rather than the other way.
That is brilliant because you saved me asking that question.
I want to wind back a little bit because I'm very aware that going to the gym too often can be...
terrible addiction as you said there's that vanity aspect of it and hey I did 200 kilograms today I did whatever you know this is that's the limit of my weight so I have no
idea but there is that addiction and there is the mirrors and there is all this and yeah you do look good but let's say someone's listening and they they they are tired
perpetually they're grumpy you know they they're not functioning their body as you said it's depleted how can they start to
understand that they're actually addicted to what they're doing, it is damaging their body and maybe their relationships and everything else because when they are down here, as you
said, you're grumpy, you're short tempered, you're not functioning.
How could I start to spot that and realise I've got a problem and then what can I do?
Yeah.
So it's really, really solid question as well.
Again, we've seen many nuances to it.
I think, I mean, the classic, that kind of burnout feeling, is, mean, if you can relate to burnout in, you know, maybe for your profession, maybe for your family stresses, just
being overwhelmed with that responsibility you have, as soon as you start to feel like that, and that's what your exercise routine is providing, then you've already crossed that
line.
if you,
If you feel like you're not in the mood, but you're forcing yourself to do it anyway, your body, maybe not in the mood is not the right word to use because again, there's a few
caveats to that.
For example, let's say it's like a winter's day and you're just a little bit kind of stiff and you could always loosen up and get into an exercise, right?
So that's kind of not what I mean, but it's kind of almost like an intuitive feeling.
It's like honing in onto those body.
or your body signaling.
So I think that's something that can be practiced and can be improved over time in terms of how well you can come in tune with your body signaling.
But if you're, if you're feeling like really, really unmotivated to go into the gym, for example, but you've forced yourself because it's part of your routine, it's a fixed day
pattern you're into.
For example, you know, on Thursdays you go and do a push and pull, whatever the case type thing.
That's a dangerous place to be in first of all.
And that's what I would
know, when I coach clients, sort of tried to, it's one of the first things that we try to work through is to try and break free from that mentality around fixed day patterns and
understanding the body.
Yeah.
If you're, if you're low moods and you're really not, you're not feeling motivated to, if you look at weight and you think, God, I really don't fancy this.
Then you're likely pushing yourself way too hard and you're, you're, you're having symptoms of burnout and overreaching, which is the technical term in this sort of fitness,
technical fitness term is overreaching burnout and overreaching.
basically where you're just pushing yourself way too much.
Good to know.
And I guess you mentioned feeling into your body.
mean, that's another topic for another time because that's not something you want to learn tomorrow, is it?
It takes a bit of time to notice whether it's up here not wanting to do it and you're going to do it anyway or is your body saying, please no.
So, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
It does take time.
I think, I mean, we all sort of understand our body a little bit, right?
We know when we've got a complaint and we know when we're feeling loose, right?
So you just start by that point.
But experimentation is important.
It's a word that I use often whenever I'm speaking to somebody or whether I'm actually coaching somebody.
even on my own life, it's all about experimentation and seeing what works and what doesn't work.
that's again, you could, you can put that against the way that we eat or trial in different foods, food experiments, or for example, you know, there's so many buzzwords out
there at the moment.
But I've pretty much been through all of them in terms of self experimentation.
So whether, you know, it's gluten free, whether it's low carb, or it's keto, whether it's, for example, intermittent fasting or,
two day fasting or 16, eight over a period.
Whenever these kind of topics come up, you can't really have a strong opinion, can you, until you've tried it yourself is what I'm trying to say.
So if you do try these things, first of you'll get the experience of it.
Certainly, will give you, we're all bio individuals, we all react slightly different.
But that's a good process to go through when it comes to things like body movement.
when it comes to stretching.
For example, let's say you never stretch, right?
You never do some kind of dynamic stretch.
Remember that static stretch where you actually hold a stretch to sort of try and improve flexibility or whether you're just doing it in like a bit like I talked about the football
warmup, whether you're doing sort of like stretches just to be able to loosen the body.
Now, if you never do stretches and you might want to trial or experiment a week where in the first 10 minutes of the day as you're waiting for the kettle to boil for your morning
coffee,
You do a few dynamic stretches.
And then at the end of the, you might record what that looks like just on a bit of hand, you know, pencil and a notepad to say, yep, definitely made me feel better.
And then maybe record that by the end of a week and see what that happens.
And this is what I mean by experiment.
It's like, it's like small, small changes, but if you habit stack it with something that you do anyway, I E switched on the kettle in the morning to make sure that you do it, you
can actually start to sort of like,
without realizing over a period of a month or two months or three months, as long as every week you're trying something new, you suddenly go, wow, I've had some big shifts.
I've had some really big lifestyle shifts and it's made a really big difference.
I'm not going back.
So it's kind of like that process.
You can't expect to change in a day or to sort of take on new habits in a day, but you've got to start being proactive in terms of how you experiment and sort of get out of your
own way in terms of that comfort zone.
Brilliant.
Yep.
That makes so much sense, doesn't it?
is.
It's awareness.
And as you said, awareness and being curious about your body and how you do things, just because you always have.
Since when you were 20 and now you said, you know, 39, 40 or something.
Yeah, I'm not quite as bouncy as I used to be.
I'm not quite as robust.
Yep.
You wait till you're 50.
Yeah.
well, this is what everybody says.
I'm kind of, taking, I'm almost like investing now, if that makes sense.
And I think on that note, by the way, like we should definitely say that, you know, whenever it comes to anything to do with self -improvement, whether it's from, you know,
whether it's something you're doing in your work, your career, whether it's something to film from a hobby perspective to something that you're interested in.
or whether it's through anything to do with health and fitness, it's never ever too late, right?
It's never ever too late.
And the body is remarkable in how quickly it can change.
So adapt is probably a better word to use than change.
And that's proven, you know, if you use the fitness analogy, if you do some pushups, guess what?
know, if you do a few sets during your first week,
you return to it the next week, you'll be able to do two or three repetitions more.
That's just the basic example of adaptation.
The same thing applies to if you're going to try fasting for the first time, if you're going to try anything of all of these types of positive lifestyle changes, your body will
adapt quite quickly and things get easier and improve over time.
Brilliant.
Mark, you've given me so much information.
You've given us so much information.
Thank you very much.
Where can people find out more about you, what you do, why you do?
Where you can find me is my, my, my business, my coaching business.
It's just me and it's called Coach Overton.
The website is www .coachoverton .com.
Okay.
That's my website on my web on my website, you'll find a free course.
which you can just click through.
on the homepage.
You can just click through and it asks you for your email address and you can just pop in there and it's a online course that's bite size information.
You could go through it in one sitting or take a few days to go through it, but that will give you a really good kind of summary, if you like, of the philosophy that I follow that
is unconventional in some ways.
But as I said, it's getting a lot of media because of the
approach that it provides, veering away from kind of over the top training, but particularly that kind of traditional way of eating that let's say the wellness plate
might give that's based on lots of grains at the bottom of the pyramid.
This is based more on kind of whole natural foods.
So that's where you can find me also linked in as well, Mark Overton, I tried to do quite a lot of LinkedIn and I'm doing some webinars now.
So keep an eye out for me there.
Like if you want to connect with me.
reach out and any questions you've got happy to ask on there too.
And that's it.
That's where I am.
Brilliant, thank you.
Well, I'll put all your details in the show notes because there's an awful lot to get through there.
That was fabulous.
Yeah, no, thank you.
And what's really refreshing is it's not you have to do this, thou shalt do this, thou shalt do this.
You you can't eat this, have to eat that.
You know, how many things have I written down?
I've got to.
I love that simplicity.
And as you said, when it's effortless and you enjoy it.
One last question.
What is your superpower that you have made sense of by turning your life around?
I love it.
It's such a deep question and I love a deep question.
The answer to that is by turning my life around, I've almost without meaning to as I think I've explained quite thoroughly, I've become aligned to my true calling, which not only
serves me personally from the person that you see in front of you right now, but deep within my soul.
but it's also going to be my way of positively impacting humanity, right?
In terms of how many people I can help, how many people I can reach the ripple effects that that will have on their lives, their family's lives.
Being a role model to my children in terms of not sort of feeling the pressure that I should just go out and do anything to be able to provide.
I should that they in their young lives they have seen daddy fully driven towards his purpose and not giving up however rough things got because I believe that in the future
that once the abundant side of things comes I don't necessarily mean that from a financial point of view I just mean it from in terms of all of the good things that will come just
by me being aligned to my tool calling.
they will see, they will grow up in that environment and it will push them on too.
I love that and I think that is so important.
You're choosing just to work from your heart, aren't you, and what is important to you and that alignment and it makes such a difference.
safety.
Mark, thank you.
This has been a great conversation.
I've really enjoyed it.
I've learned an awful lot.
I'm going to be on your website and looking up for one or two things on there.
So, yeah.
So thank you ever so much for being here today.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Crucible: Conversations for the Curious.
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