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Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for the Curious.

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I am Hamish, your host.

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This podcast is for anyone going through awakenings, trying to make sense of life.

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Whether dark nights are the soul, needing to make life -changing decisions, struggling
with addiction or critical illness, or simply realizing that their life as they know it is

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not aligned to values and purpose.

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You are not alone.

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You can get through this, promise you.

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Life is far more beautiful on the other side.

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Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of The Crucible Conversations for the Curious.

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We've got Mark with us today.

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Mark's got a fabulous story.

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Mark's been one of these people who's traveled around the world, going to exotic places,
working in exotic places, but it took a toll.

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Mark, thank you so much for turning up today.

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Thanks, Hamish.

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Thanks for the introduction to you.

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It's great to be here.

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Lovely.

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Can you tell me a bit about your story and your lifestyle that everyone really aspires to
and would love to do what you've done?

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Yeah, sure.

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Absolutely.

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Initially, I was thinking about maybe sort of sharing where I'm at now and then reverse
engineering my story because it would sort of be quite interesting to do it that way, but

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I'll hold off for now.

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So I'm 40 years old.

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When I first left the country as in the UK and headed towards tropical destinations, which
then became, you know, a huge part of my life, I was 19 years old.

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Part of that generation, I guess, that went off backpacking sort of posts.

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sixth form college.

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And then before they went to university, I went off with three mates and traveled the
world as a backpacker and it completely opened my eyes.

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When I returned, I went off to university in Plymouth to study sports science with the
idea, I think to become a, a PE teacher back in those days, but my family were all

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teachers and it was kind of, you know, it was kind of the way that I was going to go.

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However, after backpacking, you know, I just, I did, I went with

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let's say I wasn't, I was quite not resistant, but I wasn't really all into it.

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You know, my eyes have been open so much that I just wanted to get back out and travel the
world.

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So as soon as as soon as I finished, again, as most students or students are just coming
out of uni, have no pennies at all.

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Anything you do do is normally put into like, you know, an evening out on the tiles or
whatever it is, there's definitely no saving.

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So I had to think outside the box about how I was going to get out and see the world.

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So coming from Hampshire.

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and Southampton being nearby, had all these great big cruise liner headquarters there.

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So I applied for a job to go off on the Queen Mary 2 with Cunard, which I got as a
cocktail bartender.

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actually, funny enough, I thought I would just walk up the gangway there in Southampton
and off we go because it's transatlantic, the QM2, but actually they flew me to New York

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to board it.

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And I didn't realize at the time when I was walking up that gangway,

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at Brooklyn Harbor that this was going to be the start of almost a 15, 16 year expatriate
lifestyle that I was embarking on.

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And then I did the cruise ship for a year.

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And then I did a couple of ski seasons working in luxury ski chalets and doing
Mediterranean sort of work in the summertime.

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then Thailand was a big pull to me for my backpacking days.

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That was a country that really stood out to me.

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I just had a fabulous time there.

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I absolutely fell in love with the country.

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And it was a big dream of mine.

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In fact, I had said to my backpacking pals when we left moving on to Singapore and
Australia, I said, I'm going to come back and work here one day.

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I didn't realize that at the time, but that's probably one of the strongest law of
attraction statements I've ever made.

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So much so that, fast forward, I think 14 years later, my son was actually born on the
island that I said that comment on.

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Strange isn't that?

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The things that you put out into the cosmos.

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Anyway, I I took a one way ticket to Thailand, took a big gamble, big risk as a 24 year
old, little bit of savings in the bank, but not a lot, probably enough to give me about

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six weeks to, to, to see if I could make a life.

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And I landed a job at a yacht marina managing a, you know, upmarket restaurant, let's say.

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And I was picked up by one of the bigger resorts, that saw talent in me, I guess, about
six months later.

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And then this kind of really

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awesome career started in luxury hospitality.

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That took me right through until I left as a father with two children.

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My son was born in Thailand, my daughter's born in Bali.

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So that was my career, if you like, but there's a lot more to it in terms of what I was
actually getting up to and what was the real pull for me to get back out and see the

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world?

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What was I really fishing for?

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Fabulous.

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Well, tell us more because I mean that that just sounds so glamorous.

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I'm gonna start up it again That is fabulous.

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Tell us more about it because that that lifestyle going out getting a job on the yachts.

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That's so sexy I went to Thailand in 1992.

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So I'm sure my age a bit and It was Remarkable country so I can really understand why you
wanted to go back there.

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Yeah, so tell us a bit more about the

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the guts of it.

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Sure.

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So I think it's quite, when I try to sort of like digest all of this, when I look back at
your life as you do sometimes, you know, especially as you mature and you start to sort of

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understand maybe what your core values are and what you're actually trying to achieve in
younger days and how that kind of materializes.

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And one of the biggest core values I've got, I guess, one of the strongest is freedom.

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So much so that, sound a bit silly saying this, but I've actually got it tattooed on my
chest.

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I've got spirit of freedom, which again is a,

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tattoo that I had done, I think I was 25, was just literally a few months after I was
dating my now wife.

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And we got a bit, we were a bit tipsy one day and ended up in a tattoo chair.

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And she had the name of the beach done that we were staying on and I had that spirit of
freedom.

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So it was quite a sort of sporadic, intuitive thing that I did.

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But actually fast forward to where I am now, I look at that and that spirit of freedom
means so many different things to me now.

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But at the time, what it meant was that sense of, you know, flying the wings, seeing the
great big world, kind of doing what I wanted to do, if that makes sense, not having to

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answer to anybody, just following my intuition, following the poor of whatever made me
happy, right?

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I was very much, I still am to some degree, but I think with responsibility and maturity,
know, things get a bit harder to be so...

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living in the moment in the present moment.

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But certainly back in the day, I was living week to week, month to month, you know, I
wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't looking anywhere as far as I just was that, you know, I just

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wanted to be living in an environment which made me happy, such as the tropics, I wanted a
social life, which was vibrant and exciting.

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The more I changed and adapted and grew from being in those types of environments, you
know, starting, as I said, as a backpacker.

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just gave me a much more, I felt gave me a much more rounded perspective of the world, the
planet that we live on, the different cultures.

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So as I arrived to, you know, Thailand, for example, when I first started on the ships, I
had all of that.

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but then there was that excitement of being young of the party side of it.

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And, you know, as I said, I was just a socialite.

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I just wanted to have fun and meet people.

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And of course, what came of that was the, you know, the

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not so healthy side of things, let's say.

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So I drank heavily mainly because of the party scene, not because I ever felt like I
needed a drink, but it was just part of the culture that I was in, you like, attending

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beach clubs on a regular basis or going to pool villa parties, all of that, all of the
stuff that you can imagine an expat living in the tropics to get up to.

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I smoked, which to this day, so many people that meet me now

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surprised by because, you know, by profession, I'm a solo -preneur, I help men transform
their lives from a health perspective.

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it's really, it's quite, it's hard for people to swallow when they sort of see that mark
now as a 40 year old kind of healthaholic, if you understand, to understand that had that

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transformation, but

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Yeah, that was a big pull.

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was was what I was after back in those days.

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I was after excitement.

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I was after partying.

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I was after meeting people.

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I after being able to tell stories.

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And it was was an amazing it was amazing sort of life as while it lasted.

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Yeah, I can well imagine.

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Yes, I lived in Cape Town for a long while and there is that kind of lifestyle when you,
you, you sort of, kind of belong, but you kind of don't, don't you?

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You're sort of just sort of sitting there and it's, it's not that you are not a part of
that society, but you feel slightly dispossessed.

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And also, as you said, very much, it is party, it is fun, it is hard work and play hard.

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It's a real combination.

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So you've alluded to the playing hard and the working hard bit.

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What else were you doing?

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So you were running the bars, you were running the helping with the ships.

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What else were you doing there?

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So before I went to Asia, when I was working on the cruise ship and then doing the ski
seasons, as I said, the ski seasons, for example, I was managing a luxury chalet, but for

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a very high end company, quite a private company in terms of the manifest of clientele
that would come and stay.

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The same sort of clients that would then go on and charter a super yacht in the summer,
just to give you perspective.

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I was managing, that's why I had a team, you the chef, the chauffeur.

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housekeeper and you know, we were a cluster of chalets within that kind of portfolio.

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So talking about a team of maybe 50 people, you know, if you're looking at the whole
cluster.

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So of course that doing a ski season, we were young in our twenties, you know, there was
that side to it where you were working hard and actually, actually, you know, having a

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really good career to a certain degree and really interesting career.

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But then there was the other side to it, which was that you're always in that kind of
holiday environment, that ski season environment, the apres ski environment.

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And, know, I remember.

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I would quite often, five times out of the seven days in the week, I reckon, be in a bar
until three in the morning.

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And I'd be up at six in the morning before the clients of the villa, or the chalet rather,
had got up to serve them breakfast, to help the chef get the croissants in the oven and

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get all of the juices out on the table and set everything.

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I'm looking back at it now, I just don't know how I did it.

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I was literally surviving on fumes half the time.

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That was kind of what I was doing there.

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And then when I went out to Asia, things started to get a little bit more serious.

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Like said, I was working for a luxury resort company, very well known.

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And they've done incredibly well as a company since I worked for them in terms of their
portfolio, international now.

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But when I worked there, was similar story, really.

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I was managing really flagship restaurants.

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So I had this kind of front of house figure.

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to put on and personality to put on show.

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And then on the, as soon as I was out of uniform, you know, I was riding a motorcycle
straight into the neon lights of the party town on the island.

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was living in Phuket at the time.

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and just having the most outrageous fun and lifestyle, know, it was really, really, it was
really, really, I wouldn't change it for the world, Hamish, honestly, I wouldn't, you

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know, I look back at it now and just think, wow, I was making some very unhealthy
decisions, but it was all part of what shaped me.

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I met, you know, I met some of the

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some of the best friends I've ever, you know, ever come across in terms of characters.

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When I was out there, I met my, my French wife in Phuket.

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She was working in the, in the resorts as well.

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So, like I said, so many good things come of it, but there was definitely moments in
there, which were quite dark.

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I got myself into some really hairy situations just because of being kind of a little bit,
you know, intoxicated, let's say.

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And a country like Thailand can be quite dangerous if you make yourself vulnerable in
those types of situations.

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So can get yourselves into some real tricky situations.

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I as I'll give you one example, I guess, in inverted commas, arrested and taken to a
police station one night for being slightly over the limit.

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I was pulled over, it was when I was managing the restaurant at the yacht marina and there
was some international crew that were in there that worked on a super yacht and they

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insisted that they wanted me to do a shot with them as I closed the restaurant.

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I had, you know, I had a drive to do afterwards back to where I was living.

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And I knew, you know, it potentially put me over, but I was young and silly and made, I
just, did the shot.

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I hadn't been drinking otherwise, but it was enough to put me over.

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I got pulled over at a checkpoint anyway, which was quite unusual at the time.

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And I ended up doing a night in a, in a police cell and which then snowballed into this
really messy situation where I ended up basically almost in immigration jail about to be

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deported.

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Cause I'd had to go to court.

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And the company that I was working with for at the yacht marina managed to, again, sort of
basically bribe to get me out of the situation because they had connections within the

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immigration.

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So, but that was a really scary moment.

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You know, I was actually spent one night in a cell and I spent a full sort of almost like
a full day and evening in a holding cell with other Thai prisoners and that were waiting

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to go into a court hearing.

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And it was, I didn't know whether I was about to be deported.

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My whole life and dream that I'd set out to get to Thailand was about to be

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taken from me in a moment, you But I've got loads of stories like that or similar like
that just because I was being a bit silly half the time, know, and not really putting much

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enough thought into the dangers maybe of some of my decision making.

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Yeah, I hear you.

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I want to push forwards a little bit because I know that exercise and working out and
being physical has always been really important to you.

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Can you talk me through about that?

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Because I know that also got slightly out of balance as well, didn't it?

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All through those years that we've just been discussing, my 20s or even late teens, 20s
through to my early 30s, I exercised vigorously.

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I, it started because, like, as I said, used to do, I used to be sporty, did sports
science at uni, right?

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And I was going to be a PE teacher, as I mentioned.

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So sport and kind of fitness, I guess, had always been a part of me since I was a
teenager, growing up, I was sports captain at school.

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That was a big part of my, my sort of like makeup, if you like, growing up.

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And then when I got to uni, think like a lot of students do in that first year, they go
out and, you know, they're eating kebabs at night time, away loads of pints of and sugary

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cocktails and shots in the student bar and they go home at Christmas and they suddenly go,
hang on a sec, what's, you know, their family and all of their homemates are saying you've

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put on a few kilos here.

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And I kind of went through that process and that was the first time I'd ever thought like
that.

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And I was like, okay, I need to run this off.

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that, is how it started.

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So when I went back to uni, I had access to a gym and I hit the treadmill as most people
do in, which I can get onto later if you like, but this is for me, this is one of the

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biggest misconceptions is like using exercise as a tool for weight loss, but that's a
different story.

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But that was my approach at the time, which was to, to jump on a treadmill and just run
off all this weight that I'd gained.

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And

194
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What I didn't realize I was doing, but I was basically giving birth to what ended up being
a really quite chore like addiction to exercise and a really cruel mindset as well.

195
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or not mindset, but it's a real cool belief is what I mean.

196
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Belief system that I had about that I must run three or four times a week, for example,
vigorously, like 10 K or 12 K like huffing and puffing type running just to be able to

197
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control my aesthetics.

198
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And that's what it was all about.

199
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I'm being totally transparent and raw.

200
00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:12,363
which I'm very happy to do as a mature man, maybe not back in the day is that that's what
it was all about.

201
00:16:12,363 --> 00:16:21,128
It was all about looking good at t -shirts, you know, being able to show off a, you know,
a muscular body six pack or whatever it was.

202
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That's what I was interested in the most.

203
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You know, it was certainly wasn't about health.

204
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You know, why would I be going and smashing a load of pints and smoking mobile lights on
the side, right?

205
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If that's it, if I was worried so much about health.

206
00:16:32,744 --> 00:16:36,086
So that was kind of my journey that I went into.

207
00:16:36,887 --> 00:16:39,509
let's say early 20s started to lift weights as well.

208
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I was really like anybody that goes through that process for the first time.

209
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So I can actually start to put on some biceps and my chest is growing, my legs are
growing, whatever.

210
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So that also became a not really an addiction, but something that I was driven by.

211
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And then fast forward, keep going, keep going.

212
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It just everything started to become more and more.

213
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heavy, I guess, in terms of the burden I put myself into to the point where I was probably
at my worst when it came to exercise in terms of how much I was doing when I was probably

214
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in my early 30s, believe it or not.

215
00:17:14,687 --> 00:17:20,712
And I got to a point where I was using the gym five or six times without fail a week.

216
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was doing heavy lifting sessions.

217
00:17:22,453 --> 00:17:24,655
I was running every other day.

218
00:17:24,655 --> 00:17:29,288
If I missed my every other day run, I would give myself a hard time mentally.

219
00:17:30,342 --> 00:17:34,575
and not just a hard time, like, you, you've had a shocker or you, you know, you're lazy.

220
00:17:34,575 --> 00:17:38,238
I would literally be like, you know, almost like sort of like pinching around the waist.

221
00:17:38,238 --> 00:17:44,662
You know, this is like, like, as if out of fear of gaining fat, you know, it's a really
not, not a pleasant place that I was in.

222
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and I just did it.

223
00:17:45,693 --> 00:17:48,665
I didn't really realize how quite, bad it was.

224
00:17:49,136 --> 00:17:57,482
interesting speaking to my wife now and speak into maybe, yeah, not so much friends, but
maybe some family members who really saw me like, know, but for example, going away on a

225
00:17:57,482 --> 00:17:58,410
holiday.

226
00:17:58,410 --> 00:18:01,642
or going away for a time where you're supposed to be switching off and spending time with
loved ones.

227
00:18:01,642 --> 00:18:10,737
But I was more concerned about getting my arrow in the gym, otherwise I'd be in a grumpy
mood all day, you know, or snappy or, you know, barking at people that you don't want to

228
00:18:10,737 --> 00:18:22,565
bark at, know, not that you ever want to bark at anybody, it was, it was, when I looked
back at it, it was a really, it was an addictive, head space that I was in.

229
00:18:22,565 --> 00:18:26,603
And it was fueled, as I said, by this kind of like weird.

230
00:18:26,603 --> 00:18:30,127
conversations that you have in your head about how you want to come across to the world.

231
00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:31,741
Does that answer your question?

232
00:18:31,741 --> 00:18:32,282
Does that give you...

233
00:18:32,282 --> 00:18:32,473
Yeah.

234
00:18:32,473 --> 00:18:33,653
It very much does.

235
00:18:33,653 --> 00:18:37,638
And it's scary because I'm very curious.

236
00:18:37,638 --> 00:18:42,262
When were you more angry and agitated and unkind to family?

237
00:18:42,262 --> 00:18:47,986
it when you hadn't done that exercise or after you'd been to the gym?

238
00:18:47,986 --> 00:18:52,309
So basically pre -satiation or post that workout?

239
00:18:52,850 --> 00:18:55,612
When did your mood really shift?

240
00:18:55,834 --> 00:18:59,934
Yeah, it's just a really great question because the answer is that there's so many nuances
to it.

241
00:18:59,934 --> 00:19:03,002
So I'll try and give you a couple of examples.

242
00:19:03,002 --> 00:19:04,705
let's say for example,

243
00:19:05,429 --> 00:19:08,410
Let's say it was a random midweek night, okay?

244
00:19:08,410 --> 00:19:14,333
And in my head, I'd already programmed the gym session in the morning.

245
00:19:14,813 --> 00:19:28,209
Now, if me and my wife had gone out for dinner in the evening and it was supposed to be a
dinner, like a candlelit dinner, and I'm going to be home by a certain time and pretty

246
00:19:28,209 --> 00:19:31,941
chilled out and whatnot, that was what I would have in my head just as an example,

247
00:19:32,811 --> 00:19:35,373
Now life happens, let's say my wife was in a really good mood.

248
00:19:35,373 --> 00:19:41,956
She was in an excitable mood and we were having a really good, dinner and the ambience was
going, let's say it was in a Mexican restaurant.

249
00:19:41,956 --> 00:19:47,119
So the flavor started picking up and the music picked up and, come on, let's have another
cocktail.

250
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:54,024
that's that, that type of situation because of that, because in my head I would have been
in, you know, I wanted to do that gym session in the morning.

251
00:19:54,024 --> 00:19:57,486
I would have started getting grumpy in that situation, right?

252
00:19:57,486 --> 00:20:00,287
Because I'd have been like, you're going to push me to the fact that

253
00:20:01,166 --> 00:20:02,857
I'm not going to end up going to the gym in the morning.

254
00:20:02,857 --> 00:20:06,509
I know that's going to really pee me off and it's going to roll on to the next few days.

255
00:20:06,509 --> 00:20:07,940
That's how significant it was.

256
00:20:07,940 --> 00:20:12,633
mean, that's when I even say, I never said that to my wife, by the way, it's something
that I live with inside my own head.

257
00:20:12,693 --> 00:20:21,539
But this is like that was like a real situation about how it affected me just enjoying
life, if that makes sense, just like living in the present moment and enjoying life.

258
00:20:21,719 --> 00:20:24,491
And then there's other moments where we could have been on a

259
00:20:24,491 --> 00:20:31,655
you know, it could be whatever it is on a certain day hours or, you know, just doing some
kind of like life chore or admin's supermarket or something.

260
00:20:31,655 --> 00:20:39,840
And again, I wanted, I programmed in a gym session later on in the day, something or else
had happened or she wanted to change the plan or work had made me change the plan.

261
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,271
It's always my wife, by the way, I'm throwing under the bus.

262
00:20:42,491 --> 00:20:49,035
But let's say it was a work, work, something that had, you know, changed the plan and I
would get frustrated in that situation too.

263
00:20:49,055 --> 00:20:52,813
Where just, just to show you the complete other side of the spectrum.

264
00:20:52,813 --> 00:20:54,204
spectrum, is where I am today.

265
00:20:54,204 --> 00:21:02,480
I have all of that thought process and feelings, emotional attachment I had to long gone.

266
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:10,676
They've been gone for years because I've had a massive shift in the way of massive
paradigm shift in the way that I approach things.

267
00:21:10,676 --> 00:21:13,858
I don't train in any fixed day patterns anymore.

268
00:21:13,858 --> 00:21:16,410
Even that alone just takes all of that away.

269
00:21:16,631 --> 00:21:19,752
I go with the flow and I also listen to my body.

270
00:21:20,165 --> 00:21:24,048
When I say go with the flow, I appreciate life a lot more these days.

271
00:21:24,489 --> 00:21:25,690
Life's for living, right?

272
00:21:25,690 --> 00:21:34,327
And what's the whole point of exercise and trying to keep ourselves fit and well is one to
promote, you know, health span and longevity, right?

273
00:21:34,327 --> 00:21:36,738
So we get more time to have fun.

274
00:21:36,759 --> 00:21:48,609
And the other moment is to actually be, you know, to have that real vitality and that, I
guess that prowess in your own skin, that kind of natural confidence that we all deserve

275
00:21:48,609 --> 00:21:49,439
to have.

276
00:21:50,522 --> 00:21:53,684
is why I like to think of exercise now, right?

277
00:21:53,684 --> 00:21:59,107
So it's not, it's not about, you know, am I going to miss my set of bicep curls?

278
00:21:59,107 --> 00:22:01,148
How silly that sounds these days, you know?

279
00:22:01,148 --> 00:22:06,041
So if something, if the similar situation happened now, I would just let it go and just
enjoy the moment and just say, no worries.

280
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I'll pick it up tomorrow.

281
00:22:08,353 --> 00:22:15,477
or like said, I don't even just do some kind of little burst of exercise later in the day
when I get an, again,

282
00:22:16,019 --> 00:22:20,333
opportunity, not necessarily an exercise gear, know, just something to keep the body
ticking over.

283
00:22:20,333 --> 00:22:22,746
this, the whole spectrum has changed completely.

284
00:22:22,746 --> 00:22:31,525
But I was in a very, very, as I said earlier, I think the word cruel is the right word to
use, because it was self inflicted, but I just didn't realize quite how bad it was at the

285
00:22:31,525 --> 00:22:31,766
time.

286
00:22:31,766 --> 00:22:38,195
Yeah, scary isn't it?

287
00:22:38,195 --> 00:22:41,419
How did you realize that you were, as you said, you're being cruel to yourself?

288
00:22:41,419 --> 00:22:43,263
Because that's brutal.

289
00:22:43,263 --> 00:22:44,486
Yeah, I think...

290
00:22:45,052 --> 00:22:48,903
There's a couple of big aha moments that happened to me.

291
00:22:49,703 --> 00:22:55,725
think I'll start with probably the heaviest one, which was sickness.

292
00:22:55,725 --> 00:23:01,987
So I'd always sort of like being proud of being supposedly fit and healthy.

293
00:23:01,987 --> 00:23:04,367
As we know, I was more fit than healthy.

294
00:23:04,888 --> 00:23:09,469
But I'd always been proud that people had sort of put that tag on me, you know, when I was
in my twenties.

295
00:23:09,469 --> 00:23:12,049
I'm not always, he always looks fit, right?

296
00:23:12,650 --> 00:23:13,936
But then what I'd...

297
00:23:13,936 --> 00:23:20,692
obviously found out moving towards into the latter part of my twenties, early thirties is
that clearly I wasn't healthy.

298
00:23:20,692 --> 00:23:23,524
You know, that was showing up in different ways at the time.

299
00:23:24,315 --> 00:23:32,443
I'll probably say the most significant way was my physical energy was appalling outside of
the gym.

300
00:23:32,443 --> 00:23:41,230
So I was pushing myself so hard on the treadmill on runs and also the late, the weights
that I was lifting that I was

301
00:23:41,230 --> 00:23:42,852
I was just depleted the whole time.

302
00:23:42,852 --> 00:23:44,123
was completely depleted.

303
00:23:44,123 --> 00:23:52,420
So that from a physical point of view, you I'm talking about like feeling like much older
than I should have done when I wake up in the morning, you know, stiff and creaky because

304
00:23:52,420 --> 00:23:55,302
of the, the amount of exercise that I was doing.

305
00:23:55,403 --> 00:24:02,859
So I was walking around, you know, like a cowboy sometimes, you know, when I should be
like mobile and fluid and just enjoying life.

306
00:24:02,859 --> 00:24:08,710
You know, and sometimes sort of like look at a staircase and think, not sure if I fancy
this, you know, which is

307
00:24:08,710 --> 00:24:12,612
really odd when you think that I was making all this effort to be fit and well, right?

308
00:24:13,112 --> 00:24:17,975
So those kind of thoughts started coming into play, like, surely I shouldn't be feeling
like this all the time.

309
00:24:18,015 --> 00:24:29,191
Other things came into play that are quite famous for people that lift weights or these
kind of symptoms, like such as noticing, you know, moods, like I've always, I've always

310
00:24:29,191 --> 00:24:35,165
sort of considered myself to be quite stable when it comes and consistent when it comes to
moods.

311
00:24:35,165 --> 00:24:37,245
I noticed and I picked up on that

312
00:24:38,114 --> 00:24:47,302
moods where could sometimes be quite low after heavy lifting, for example, or short
tempered, as I said, and this is not just to do I mean, obviously, could link this to

313
00:24:47,302 --> 00:24:48,463
hangovers and things as well.

314
00:24:48,463 --> 00:24:58,361
But I would, I felt that I really felt that kind of drain that had come from lifting heavy
metal, if that makes sense, or too much metal for your nervous system.

315
00:24:58,361 --> 00:25:07,524
But where it really showed up was when I was a kid, right through right through basically
up until I've had this transformation in mid 30s, I always suffered from bonkitis.

316
00:25:07,524 --> 00:25:09,155
in the wintertime.

317
00:25:09,155 --> 00:25:12,047
once I went to the tropics, kind of subsided a little bit.

318
00:25:12,047 --> 00:25:13,777
It would come out now and again.

319
00:25:13,938 --> 00:25:19,701
Maybe if I'd had like, again, too many party nights in a row, smoking and things like
that, might come on.

320
00:25:20,422 --> 00:25:27,105
But this one time, I got the really nasty chest infections and I had to some antibiotics.

321
00:25:27,886 --> 00:25:31,188
Didn't go, had to take a second course of antibiotics.

322
00:25:31,188 --> 00:25:34,364
Didn't go and it started to get really, really like...

323
00:25:34,364 --> 00:25:35,034
quite worrying.

324
00:25:35,034 --> 00:25:37,915
It was a really, really rough chest infection I had.

325
00:25:39,776 --> 00:25:48,090
one important part of this story is that during that whole period, now, let's say a good
two and a half weeks of struggling with this infection, I continued to train.

326
00:25:48,090 --> 00:25:55,423
And not only was I training, but I was doing at this time, I went through this period of
what I thought.

327
00:25:55,423 --> 00:26:03,942
I thought I'd found this amazing golden ticket, which most people know as HIIT training,
high intensity interval training, which again, I

328
00:26:03,942 --> 00:26:08,064
happily explain the dangers when it's mismanaged.

329
00:26:09,765 --> 00:26:15,829
And I always continue to do these HIIT training sessions while I had this really bad chest
infection, bronchitis, right?

330
00:26:15,829 --> 00:26:25,264
And my, my thought process at the time was like, you're sweating out, you're sweating out
the toxins and you're sort of like giving your body a run over to sort of like strengthen

331
00:26:25,264 --> 00:26:26,665
it, which of course, absolute nonsense.

332
00:26:26,665 --> 00:26:27,665
I couldn't be further from the truth.

333
00:26:27,665 --> 00:26:29,656
I'm doing is suppressing my immune system.

334
00:26:29,656 --> 00:26:33,378
So it's got absolutely nothing to do to fight back to the infection.

335
00:26:34,130 --> 00:26:37,010
What happened is that then turned into pneumonia.

336
00:26:37,170 --> 00:26:41,290
And this was a real wake up call for me.

337
00:26:41,290 --> 00:26:48,090
because I, like I said, even though I knew I wasn't necessarily healthy because of the
drinking and the partying and the smoking and things like that, by this point I'd given up

338
00:26:48,090 --> 00:26:51,610
smoking, by the way, I was this, was probably about 33 at the time.

339
00:26:51,690 --> 00:26:56,250
And yeah, yeah, I was just like, okay, I don't get pneumonia.

340
00:26:56,250 --> 00:27:00,750
know, that's that, you know, that kind of thought, you know, where you think you're
immortal.

341
00:27:00,750 --> 00:27:08,623
know, and as you get a little bit older, that starts every year, it gets a little bit
softer and softer and weaker and weaker in terms of that thought process of being

342
00:27:08,623 --> 00:27:09,773
invincible.

343
00:27:09,773 --> 00:27:17,305
And I just had that moment I was like, so you're something's not going right here, you do
all of this training, you do all of this physical fitness, but you know, you can't even

344
00:27:17,305 --> 00:27:21,096
shake off a cough, and it's now turning to pneumonia, what's going on?

345
00:27:21,097 --> 00:27:24,938
So so that encouraged me to delve deeper.

346
00:27:25,586 --> 00:27:27,086
which I certainly did.

347
00:27:27,086 --> 00:27:35,606
Just for your listeners, the transition that I went through after that, left Asia, we left
Asia as a family in 2019.

348
00:27:35,606 --> 00:27:41,806
For a number of reasons, by the way, it was not because we suddenly had decided that we
had enough of Asia.

349
00:27:41,806 --> 00:27:43,586
was mainly because of the children.

350
00:27:43,586 --> 00:27:49,906
After our son was born, my wife had, sorry, before my daughter was born, what I mean to
say, my wife stopped working and...

351
00:27:49,906 --> 00:27:54,166
We weren't actually married out in Asia just because we hadn't got around to it.

352
00:27:54,166 --> 00:28:00,886
was complicated to organize a big wedding for our European family to come to Asia.

353
00:28:01,226 --> 00:28:09,266
So when we arrived in 2019 back to France initially, we weren't married and then Brexit
happened and COVID happened.

354
00:28:09,266 --> 00:28:11,046
So there was kind an admin headache there.

355
00:28:11,046 --> 00:28:18,386
But prior to us leaving the admin headache was the fact that I couldn't actually sponsor
my wife through my work, if that makes sense, because we weren't married.

356
00:28:18,386 --> 00:28:20,486
in terms of visas.

357
00:28:20,486 --> 00:28:28,346
So we were surviving, were getting around it, but it meant really an inconvenient travel
from time to time for my wife.

358
00:28:28,346 --> 00:28:32,196
And it all kind of added up to the point where we just like, okay, let's just go back and
be a bit closer to family.

359
00:28:32,196 --> 00:28:33,826
It was a really big call.

360
00:28:33,826 --> 00:28:37,506
You know, it was tough because we didn't really deep down want to leave.

361
00:28:37,506 --> 00:28:38,586
But we did.

362
00:28:38,586 --> 00:28:44,676
And when I got back, I used the moment as a platform for deep introspection.

363
00:28:44,676 --> 00:28:48,194
You know, at time I was 35, I'd had this

364
00:28:48,242 --> 00:28:52,062
quite glamorous, as I said, luxury hospitality career.

365
00:28:52,542 --> 00:28:57,752
In post 30, I had gotten more into high performance rather than front house hospitality.

366
00:28:57,752 --> 00:29:04,342
I was working with sales teams and I was lucky enough to be subsidized through lots of
high performance kind of coaching badges.

367
00:29:04,862 --> 00:29:09,982
So that had opened up lots of doors and kind of visions for the future.

368
00:29:09,982 --> 00:29:11,282
lit me up basically.

369
00:29:11,282 --> 00:29:13,258
Anything to do with self -development.

370
00:29:13,302 --> 00:29:18,113
and improving yourself and also high performance, cognitive function, all these things lit
me up.

371
00:29:18,113 --> 00:29:20,204
It's really what made me excited.

372
00:29:20,224 --> 00:29:22,505
So that was there that had been similar in way anyway.

373
00:29:22,505 --> 00:29:31,137
But when I got back, I sort of went back to the drawing board and said, okay, I could go
and just try and find a job, you know, back in a similar industry, or I could use this as

374
00:29:31,137 --> 00:29:39,029
a moment to really dig deep and find out what I want to do and what my purpose is and
what, how I'm going to serve, as I said earlier, humanity, which sounds really deep.

375
00:29:39,029 --> 00:29:42,190
But at the end of the day, if we can plug into that then.

376
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,532
I believe life sort of starts to fall into place.

377
00:29:45,832 --> 00:29:47,933
And that's what I did.

378
00:29:47,933 --> 00:29:53,476
And I didn't realize at the time what I was going to do exactly.

379
00:29:53,476 --> 00:30:00,080
And I was kind of almost like asking the cosmos for answers, like free meditation and
symbols and everything.

380
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:07,544
was really sort of really going for it in terms of like, give me that kind of moment, give
me that epiphany moment, if that makes sense.

381
00:30:07,544 --> 00:30:10,645
And it kind of went on for a few months actually.

382
00:30:10,946 --> 00:30:11,786
And

383
00:30:11,812 --> 00:30:17,777
It came to me one day like a, like a spark, you like a lightning bolt and it was linked to
fitness initially.

384
00:30:17,777 --> 00:30:17,937
Okay.

385
00:30:17,937 --> 00:30:20,429
It's been under your nose the entire time.

386
00:30:20,429 --> 00:30:29,877
All of this journey that you've been on, all of the struggles that you've been on, all the
lessons that you've learned, all of those hours that you've sweated and slaved away in the

387
00:30:29,877 --> 00:30:39,444
gym, you know, have all meant for something because it's all part of your story and all
part of your learning on almost kind of what shouldn't do, how not to do things in a way.

388
00:30:39,885 --> 00:30:41,190
So you can now.

389
00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:48,053
go on and self study and find ways that are actually much more holistic, much more
healthy.

390
00:30:49,093 --> 00:30:58,599
And then go on, not only for yourself, not only for me, of course, but then go on to help
others basically not go the long route like I did and just cut straight to the prize as it

391
00:30:58,599 --> 00:30:59,399
were.

392
00:30:59,860 --> 00:31:01,041
So that's what I did.

393
00:31:01,041 --> 00:31:09,825
that's when I started to retrain and I am going to get certified in what I needed to,
which was, you know, I did some substantial reeducation basically.

394
00:31:09,825 --> 00:31:11,376
I reinvented myself.

395
00:31:11,378 --> 00:31:12,878
And that's all part of a five year journey.

396
00:31:12,878 --> 00:31:15,678
That was when I was around 35 and I said, now I'm 40 now.

397
00:31:15,678 --> 00:31:17,958
So big transformations.

398
00:31:17,958 --> 00:31:24,978
but that was that story about the pneumonia is, was the real big moment that made me sort
of like click into gear with all of that.

399
00:31:24,978 --> 00:31:31,351
There's other stuff I could talk about in terms of how I ate, and how I exercise
specifically, but that was the real sort of big moment.

400
00:31:31,351 --> 00:31:36,654
It's scary isn't it when you get an awakening like that and you don't join the dots.

401
00:31:36,654 --> 00:31:46,180
I I remember certain things and not joining those dots and yet, why are you going to the
gym when you're sick, when you're coughing up your guts?

402
00:31:46,961 --> 00:31:50,634
But we don't link those things up.

403
00:31:50,634 --> 00:31:53,625
We don't realise that it's kind of bonkers.

404
00:31:54,340 --> 00:31:55,911
I know, I know, isn't that the truth?

405
00:31:55,911 --> 00:32:06,208
It's just, I think sometimes we just sort of go into the zone or we can convince ourselves
or, you know, just, like I said, don't, looking back, I still, still don't know how I

406
00:32:06,208 --> 00:32:10,651
thought I was so invincible, you know, when I look back at how I lived through my
twenties.

407
00:32:10,651 --> 00:32:21,809
I think we all have this kind of ability in our youth, don't we, to, we have a sort of
extra battery pack, don't we, when we're in our early twenties and then maybe moving

408
00:32:21,809 --> 00:32:22,149
forward.

409
00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:24,208
But I mean, naturally you start to slow down, but.

410
00:32:24,208 --> 00:32:30,211
Honestly, I just look back and just think, why did I think I was being fit and healthy and
this was never going to catch up with me,

411
00:32:30,595 --> 00:32:31,416
Yeah.

412
00:32:32,319 --> 00:32:33,131
No, good for you.

413
00:32:33,131 --> 00:32:36,138
So when did you, were you still drinking when you had the pneumonia?

414
00:32:36,138 --> 00:32:38,553
Were you still smoking then or had you stopped?

415
00:32:38,598 --> 00:32:40,599
Smokin had stopped.

416
00:32:40,599 --> 00:32:44,280
Smokin was something that was always going to stop.

417
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:49,481
This is something that I talk about with clients a lot actually of mine.

418
00:32:49,501 --> 00:32:54,143
And it's that kind of understanding that process of change.

419
00:32:54,143 --> 00:32:58,624
part of that process, so probably one of the most significant processes awareness, right?

420
00:32:58,664 --> 00:33:04,518
So I'm not sure if you've heard of the transphietical model of change, Where there's sort
of a pre

421
00:33:04,518 --> 00:33:12,678
pre -contemplation change, and then there's a contemplation stage and you move on through
the kind of like stages of this change as it were, then you actually try action and so on

422
00:33:12,678 --> 00:33:13,208
and so forth.

423
00:33:13,208 --> 00:33:20,558
And I think somebody that's totally oblivious is not going to change anytime soon to
whatever that particular unhealthy habit is, right?

424
00:33:20,558 --> 00:33:25,758
And then there's people that just don't want to hear, they're not interested, or they try
to kind of cover it up.

425
00:33:25,758 --> 00:33:28,918
Like, you know, my granddad was a smoker and he lived till he was 90.

426
00:33:28,918 --> 00:33:33,630
Those types of comments, why are still in that very early stages, they're not going to be
changing anytime soon.

427
00:33:33,734 --> 00:33:46,114
But as soon as somebody starts to have awareness and starts to maybe research how to quit
or what it's like to quit or whatever it is, that's your, in my opinion, this is obviously

428
00:33:46,114 --> 00:33:53,794
very subjective, but once you start having that thought process, it doesn't matter whether
it's going to take a month or six years or 10 years.

429
00:33:53,794 --> 00:34:01,908
In theory, you should change because you've already taken that step down that up or up
that ladder, if you say towards change, just by having the awareness.

430
00:34:02,522 --> 00:34:06,844
so I had had that awareness all the way through my twenties is the point I'm trying to
make when it comes to smoking.

431
00:34:06,844 --> 00:34:11,746
Cause I think, you know, hitting the treadmill so often, you know, I was sometimes might
have felt tight lungs.

432
00:34:11,746 --> 00:34:17,069
knew that, you deep down, everybody knows who smokes that it's not healthy, however much
you try to cover it up.

433
00:34:17,069 --> 00:34:21,120
So I had the awareness and I tried a few times in my mid twenties and failed miserably.

434
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:27,353
And, you know, the invite, the environment was always tricky when you put in yourself,
you're trying to quit something like smoking and you keep putting yourself in party

435
00:34:27,353 --> 00:34:28,494
environments.

436
00:34:28,494 --> 00:34:29,862
You know, it's going to.

437
00:34:29,862 --> 00:34:38,402
be hard, both in terms of a visual perspective, but also if you're starting to drink and
whatnot, obviously, decision making is going to be a lot looser.

438
00:34:38,902 --> 00:34:43,682
So anyway, I gave up when I was 30, I want to say 30, maybe 29.

439
00:34:44,042 --> 00:34:50,062
And the drinking continued, although it sort of organically became less and less.

440
00:34:50,062 --> 00:34:56,998
And I guess a lot of people can relate to this, you know, not so many just because of
recovery time, work.

441
00:34:57,026 --> 00:35:02,040
And what used to be kind of a kind of drink until three or maybe even five a in Thailand
was quite usual.

442
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:10,467
Bali would then become, you know, kind of adapted a bit like a football player towards the
end of their career where they they're not they're not the fast person anymore.

443
00:35:10,467 --> 00:35:15,762
So they kind of adjust their game a bit to sort of daytime drinking rather than night time
drinking.

444
00:35:15,762 --> 00:35:20,315
So it's all these those kind of tactics were in play without realizing.

445
00:35:20,315 --> 00:35:24,439
But like I said, we're getting towards around the time my children were born.

446
00:35:24,439 --> 00:35:26,110
I think my

447
00:35:26,426 --> 00:35:33,759
When my wife was pregnant with my daughter, it was past six months.

448
00:35:33,759 --> 00:35:35,000
I always remember it was past six months.

449
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,732
It wasn't quite the last month of the pregnancy, but it was certainly past six months or
so.

450
00:35:39,732 --> 00:35:44,054
And I felt quite guilty because my wife was obviously not drinking.

451
00:35:44,054 --> 00:35:46,075
She was heavily pregnant by this point.

452
00:35:46,075 --> 00:35:54,246
And I thought I should probably step up a little bit here and just be a bit more
supportive in terms of my own behaviors.

453
00:35:54,246 --> 00:35:59,586
And on top of that, think I'd already been having lots of internal dialogue about my
drinking.

454
00:35:59,586 --> 00:36:14,006
I can tell you a story where around that sort of time I'd finished work and I was pushing,
I was on babysitting duty and I was pushing a pram up towards my villa after visiting a 7

455
00:36:14,006 --> 00:36:14,286
-Eleven.

456
00:36:14,286 --> 00:36:16,086
This is about four o 'clock in the afternoon.

457
00:36:16,086 --> 00:36:21,082
And I had gone to get myself three or four long net bottles of beer.

458
00:36:21,082 --> 00:36:22,593
And that was a kind of standard at the time.

459
00:36:22,593 --> 00:36:24,946
You that was kind of just how I wrapped up a day.

460
00:36:24,946 --> 00:36:28,028
I'd been at work during the day and I typically finished sort of late afternoon.

461
00:36:28,028 --> 00:36:32,532
And I remember having this moment as the bottles were clinking underneath the pram.

462
00:36:32,613 --> 00:36:34,624
And I kind of questioned myself at the time.

463
00:36:34,624 --> 00:36:37,797
It's like, am I, do I really need these beers?

464
00:36:37,797 --> 00:36:39,379
Is this becoming a little bit of an issue?

465
00:36:39,379 --> 00:36:41,721
So I was already starting to have these kind of thoughts.

466
00:36:41,721 --> 00:36:47,666
And that's when I decided, as I said, six months into the pregnancy or thereabouts, okay,
I'm going to go.

467
00:36:48,250 --> 00:36:51,023
completely too total for not forever, but for a little bit.

468
00:36:51,023 --> 00:36:56,477
I gave myself up until the birth of my daughter and I stuck to it pretty good.

469
00:36:57,419 --> 00:37:12,182
And I remember just being totally amazed by how everything changed in terms of my mood, my
clarity of thinking, my skin, even though I was lucky because I had a permanent tan, let's

470
00:37:12,182 --> 00:37:14,013
be honest, I was living in Thailand.

471
00:37:14,446 --> 00:37:19,308
All year round, I had this kind of like natural glow that covered up probably a lot of the
cracks, if that makes sense.

472
00:37:19,468 --> 00:37:25,811
And then, I noticed that my, my skin was dramatically improved within a week or so of not
drinking.

473
00:37:25,811 --> 00:37:30,993
And my, you remember me saying I was working in high performance as well.

474
00:37:31,773 --> 00:37:40,767
So from a coach, both a coach's point of view, but also in terms of how I executed my
coaching, if that makes sense, I was just different level.

475
00:37:40,767 --> 00:37:43,218
just went up a gear and

476
00:37:43,322 --> 00:37:52,585
That's when you sort go through these processes, you start to have those little kind of
like moments of clarification of how much better it is to make these healthier decisions.

477
00:37:52,585 --> 00:37:54,305
There's no real going back, there?

478
00:37:54,305 --> 00:38:00,827
You sort of just get addicted to that new sense of health and positive vibes.

479
00:38:00,827 --> 00:38:02,578
So it all just started to escalate from there.

480
00:38:02,578 --> 00:38:10,310
And as I said, by the time I had moved back to France and from Asia, I was already well on
the way to all of this.

481
00:38:10,758 --> 00:38:11,919
completely transforming.

482
00:38:11,919 --> 00:38:17,033
as I said, I went into education, which just just cemented all of these new learnings and
teachings.

483
00:38:17,033 --> 00:38:20,626
And I self -experimented a lot in terms of diet, which I'm happy to talk about as well.

484
00:38:20,626 --> 00:38:24,731
But yeah, that was that was my main sort of moment when I got up to a big change.

485
00:38:24,731 --> 00:38:35,762
I think that's remarkable, this self -awareness that people seem to have of just being
aware and making sense of like, I can be a complete knob when I'm drunk or hungover, but

486
00:38:35,762 --> 00:38:39,094
when I have another drink for a few days, people like me and I like me.

487
00:38:39,475 --> 00:38:41,597
And it is nice.

488
00:38:41,597 --> 00:38:43,098
You feel better.

489
00:38:43,098 --> 00:38:44,600
As you said, you're sharper.

490
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,271
You're able to interact with people better.

491
00:38:46,271 --> 00:38:47,662
You're able to do all sorts of things.

492
00:38:47,662 --> 00:38:49,896
And it is, yeah.

493
00:38:49,896 --> 00:38:52,668
two or three days without that stuff going through your system.

494
00:38:52,668 --> 00:39:04,455
And then I guess like me, you realized that it was nicer feeling sober, feeling
straighter, feeling sharper, being able to go to the gym when you want to or not, being

495
00:39:04,455 --> 00:39:09,068
able to have those conversations when you just didn't have that blur from the alcohol.

496
00:39:09,374 --> 00:39:11,445
Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.

497
00:39:11,445 --> 00:39:18,106
it's like, mean, I can think of times, weeks would go by where I was kind of, I'd never
escaped the cloud.

498
00:39:18,627 --> 00:39:19,947
And, know, I was functioning.

499
00:39:19,947 --> 00:39:20,857
I was always functioning.

500
00:39:20,857 --> 00:39:23,288
You know, I was doing really well in my work.

501
00:39:23,588 --> 00:39:31,330
You wouldn't have necessarily, nobody would have noticed at work is, and I'm not saying
that I was getting drunk every evening either, know, but just, it was just enough to sort

502
00:39:31,330 --> 00:39:36,611
of like take that edge off, I guess, you know, that I was looking for at the time.

503
00:39:36,672 --> 00:39:38,312
Cause whether it was,

504
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:47,416
pressures from work or whether it was, like I said, whether it was being trying to be
sociable in a very kind of like holiday atmosphere vibe, you know, that you go into all of

505
00:39:47,416 --> 00:39:55,762
these kinds of places, the clickiness of the expatriate lifestyle on these kind of
tropical islands, you're almost kind of always feeling like you need to perform, you

506
00:39:55,762 --> 00:40:05,439
always need to, you know, look your best in terms of from a physical point of view, but
maybe how you address how you turn up, you know, it was, it's all very, very superficial,

507
00:40:05,620 --> 00:40:06,568
which is

508
00:40:06,568 --> 00:40:09,951
sad really, because it's something that I don't necessarily like to think of myself of.

509
00:40:09,951 --> 00:40:12,743
at the time, that was the world that I lived in.

510
00:40:12,743 --> 00:40:15,014
And I'm not going to say that I never enjoyed it.

511
00:40:15,014 --> 00:40:20,959
As I said earlier, I never regret a lot of those years because there was a lot of fun
moments in there, of course.

512
00:40:20,959 --> 00:40:33,192
But definitely the flip side of that, both from being a father, from being a partner, and
being professional in what I do as well in terms of that

513
00:40:33,192 --> 00:40:37,063
human element, that connection, especially in the line of work that I do now.

514
00:40:37,063 --> 00:40:39,774
But at the time, like said, it was more high performance coaching.

515
00:40:39,774 --> 00:40:43,335
Now it's obviously more linked to health and lifestyle.

516
00:40:43,335 --> 00:40:47,736
It's really important that I walk the walk, but that's all happened totally naturally.

517
00:40:47,736 --> 00:40:49,267
Like I said, I don't have to force anything.

518
00:40:49,267 --> 00:40:53,518
This has all been a total natural journey.

519
00:40:53,698 --> 00:40:56,609
And that's the beautiful part of it is, know, like it's at the top.

520
00:40:56,609 --> 00:41:01,280
When I had this epiphany of, it's definitely linked to do with fitness.

521
00:41:01,344 --> 00:41:10,324
And it's things to do with this kind of self development, self improvement, maybe
intuition, maybe later in the line, maybe I'm 40, I'm 40 now, but maybe when I'm 50, I'll

522
00:41:10,324 --> 00:41:21,164
be working more in a kind of spiritual realm in terms of helping people, like I said,
discover what their, what their actual real purpose is, or at least aligned to it so they

523
00:41:21,164 --> 00:41:23,664
can sort of start to open those kind of doors.

524
00:41:24,484 --> 00:41:27,114
This isn't not necessarily going to be the finishing point, right?

525
00:41:27,114 --> 00:41:31,166
But at the moment, at this stage of life, I feel like I'm on a

526
00:41:31,166 --> 00:41:36,090
my journey and the transformation I've had particularly in my philosophy or the philosophy
that's helped me.

527
00:41:36,090 --> 00:41:39,763
It's not my philosophy, philosophy that I've learned and that's helped me make this
transformation.

528
00:41:39,763 --> 00:41:43,426
It's something that I certainly think the world needs to know about.

529
00:41:43,426 --> 00:41:55,376
And because it will just help so many people overcome both diet and exercise frustrations,
like I said, because there's, mean, diet side of thing is well documented in terms of how

530
00:41:55,376 --> 00:41:59,899
people can get really, really, get really

531
00:42:01,264 --> 00:42:03,966
situation to do with how they approach eating.

532
00:42:04,107 --> 00:42:07,929
And that's not only linked to food, but also about how they look as well, of course.

533
00:42:07,929 --> 00:42:12,873
And then there's, and the dangers that are involved in that whole, I mean, there's many,
obviously many nuances in that.

534
00:42:12,873 --> 00:42:18,927
But then the exercise thing is a kind of realm that I think is not talked about enough.

535
00:42:18,927 --> 00:42:23,960
Exercises, mean, it's a trillion dollar or pound industry, right?

536
00:42:24,101 --> 00:42:28,844
And a bit like food in terms of we know that food can be

537
00:42:29,212 --> 00:42:38,850
the way it's marketed is not necessarily in favor of our health, let's I think the same
can be said about a lot of the health industry, sorry, the fitness industry is what I'm

538
00:42:38,850 --> 00:42:39,741
saying.

539
00:42:39,841 --> 00:42:44,325
But that's not, it's not always necessarily from a, from a manipulative or dark place.

540
00:42:44,325 --> 00:42:50,790
It could be a lot of just misunderstood information or people not understanding quite the
dangers of it.

541
00:42:50,790 --> 00:42:57,876
if I could give you a very quick example, if I may, like let's say this is not to demonize
spin classes to anybody that's listening by the way, like

542
00:42:58,016 --> 00:42:59,906
It's not, this is nothing to do with demonizedness.

543
00:42:59,906 --> 00:43:02,856
Just understand maybe what too much could look like.

544
00:43:02,856 --> 00:43:10,096
So let's say for example, you've got Barry, who's an executive type.

545
00:43:10,536 --> 00:43:20,676
it's got two children, 10 and 12, know, he's high flying career and he's got, he commutes
to work and he's got, he's played spinning is what I'm trying to say.

546
00:43:20,676 --> 00:43:23,496
He's got a of pressure on his shoulders.

547
00:43:23,616 --> 00:43:27,818
Now fair play to him because he's motivated enough to show up to spin classes.

548
00:43:27,818 --> 00:43:29,249
four times a week.

549
00:43:29,429 --> 00:43:34,333
And he comes out of those spin classes full of feel good hormones, right?

550
00:43:34,874 --> 00:43:42,110
Because you know, that kind of run as high that we know so well now run as high as
probably again, one of the most misunderstood things that goes on because it kind of makes

551
00:43:42,110 --> 00:43:49,366
it gives us that feeling that we've had great, we've done something great, you know, we've
really pushed ourselves and our bodies benefited from it.

552
00:43:49,366 --> 00:43:50,917
But it's actually it's a hormonal thing, right?

553
00:43:50,917 --> 00:43:57,472
So hormonal feeling that we're feeling going on right there to do with dopamine,
endorphins, other bits and pieces.

554
00:43:57,792 --> 00:44:04,012
And also let's not forget the collaboration of everybody else kind of like screaming and
shouting when you're actually in that environment, right?

555
00:44:04,012 --> 00:44:15,692
But the reality is if I can link this back to my doing my HIIT training during my
sickness, not quite as extreme as that, but if you imagine that Barry has got, filling all

556
00:44:15,692 --> 00:44:19,922
of these kitchen sinks of water and he's forgetting to turn the tap off basically, right?

557
00:44:19,922 --> 00:44:25,436
So going into spin class four times a week for 45 minute hour, really intensive.

558
00:44:25,436 --> 00:44:31,220
exercise is just dumping a load more stress onto a very, very stressed body and mind
already.

559
00:44:31,842 --> 00:44:36,926
So again, like I said, this is not to demonize it, but what he's doing is depleting
himself.

560
00:44:36,926 --> 00:44:38,717
He's making himself more tired.

561
00:44:38,717 --> 00:44:39,498
Okay.

562
00:44:39,498 --> 00:44:43,001
He's making, he's giving himself more issues long -term definitely.

563
00:44:43,001 --> 00:44:44,722
So again, this is not to demonize the exercise.

564
00:44:44,722 --> 00:44:46,634
There's just a better approach of doing things.

565
00:44:46,634 --> 00:44:54,310
So if spin is something that you really liked and it gives him that kind of social aspect,
then perhaps once a week would be a much better plan.

566
00:44:54,398 --> 00:45:06,337
And then the other times would be focused more on kind of like low intensity body
movement, such as like a brisk walk, for example, or that type of training, a casual swim,

567
00:45:06,337 --> 00:45:07,137
these types of things.

568
00:45:07,137 --> 00:45:14,923
And again, this type of education is something that just doesn't get talked about enough,
maybe because of awareness, because people don't realize it.

569
00:45:14,923 --> 00:45:23,038
when you do make these adjustments, sort of life becomes enjoyable again, and you can
actually have an exercise routine that doesn't have to batter you to pieces.

570
00:45:23,038 --> 00:45:27,221
that actually promotes you feeling good, makes sort of like revitalizes you.

571
00:45:27,221 --> 00:45:30,844
I always say that to people, you know, you should, if you go out for like a little jog,
you should come back thing.

572
00:45:30,844 --> 00:45:31,494
Yeah, that was great.

573
00:45:31,494 --> 00:45:39,070
Almost a bit like, you know, I was joking with a client the other day, used to be a
footballer and he was like, you know, I get really bored of jogs.

574
00:45:39,070 --> 00:45:40,521
I can't face doing jogs.

575
00:45:40,521 --> 00:45:42,072
I said, don't have to do jogs, right?

576
00:45:42,072 --> 00:45:45,784
First of all, like I said, you don't want to go into that training zone because it's going
to deplete you anyway.

577
00:45:45,784 --> 00:45:49,327
The sort of higher huff and puff type training I'm talking about.

578
00:45:49,327 --> 00:45:50,794
If you went for a gentle jog,

579
00:45:50,794 --> 00:45:51,965
That's going to do the opposite.

580
00:45:51,965 --> 00:45:53,065
should reinvigorate you.

581
00:45:53,065 --> 00:46:00,620
So if you can hold a conversation when you're having a jog with a, with a power or you're
running with your dog or whatever, and you can have a chat with the dog or take a phone

582
00:46:00,620 --> 00:46:02,000
call, that's a pretty good zone to being.

583
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:09,554
Cause you're likely in aerobic training, which is not going to deplete you in that way and
drain your energy is going to revitalize you.

584
00:46:09,875 --> 00:46:13,697
So it's trying to, what I said to this guy anyway, about the, he used to be a footballer.

585
00:46:13,697 --> 00:46:15,918
I said, can you remember when you used to warm up for football?

586
00:46:15,918 --> 00:46:18,039
You used to do all these funny little side steps.

587
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:19,360
You see the high knees.

588
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,380
And it used to be pretty gentle and chilled out, right?

589
00:46:21,380 --> 00:46:23,050
You put no real routine to it.

590
00:46:23,050 --> 00:46:25,360
There was no real pressure on it, but you'd feel good.

591
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,320
You'd feel up for the game, right?

592
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,960
By the time you've been doing that for about 20 minutes, think of it that way.

593
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:40,540
So rather than finish a 10 hour working day in the city and come home and go, blimey, I've
got to go out on a October dark night, you know, in the sideways rain and huff and puff

594
00:46:40,540 --> 00:46:41,840
for the next hour.

595
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,180
Just take that approach.

596
00:46:43,180 --> 00:46:47,642
Do something that's much lighter, but makes you feel good and reinvigorates you.

597
00:46:47,642 --> 00:46:52,478
And you're going to be much better off by adding that into your fitness arsenal rather
than the other way.

598
00:46:52,478 --> 00:46:55,440
That is brilliant because you saved me asking that question.

599
00:46:55,462 --> 00:47:03,407
I want to wind back a little bit because I'm very aware that going to the gym too often
can be...

600
00:47:03,447 --> 00:47:12,407
terrible addiction as you said there's that vanity aspect of it and hey I did 200
kilograms today I did whatever you know this is that's the limit of my weight so I have no

601
00:47:12,407 --> 00:47:24,527
idea but there is that addiction and there is the mirrors and there is all this and yeah
you do look good but let's say someone's listening and they they they are tired

602
00:47:24,527 --> 00:47:31,945
perpetually they're grumpy you know they they're not functioning their body as you said
it's depleted how can they start to

603
00:47:31,945 --> 00:47:43,418
understand that they're actually addicted to what they're doing, it is damaging their body
and maybe their relationships and everything else because when they are down here, as you

604
00:47:43,418 --> 00:47:47,171
said, you're grumpy, you're short tempered, you're not functioning.

605
00:47:47,412 --> 00:47:54,199
How could I start to spot that and realise I've got a problem and then what can I do?

606
00:47:54,455 --> 00:47:54,785
Yeah.

607
00:47:54,785 --> 00:47:57,647
So it's really, really solid question as well.

608
00:47:57,647 --> 00:47:59,228
Again, we've seen many nuances to it.

609
00:47:59,228 --> 00:48:12,115
I think, I mean, the classic, that kind of burnout feeling, is, mean, if you can relate to
burnout in, you know, maybe for your profession, maybe for your family stresses, just

610
00:48:12,115 --> 00:48:21,390
being overwhelmed with that responsibility you have, as soon as you start to feel like
that, and that's what your exercise routine is providing, then you've already crossed that

611
00:48:21,390 --> 00:48:22,160
line.

612
00:48:23,351 --> 00:48:24,291
if you,

613
00:48:24,533 --> 00:48:37,248
If you feel like you're not in the mood, but you're forcing yourself to do it anyway, your
body, maybe not in the mood is not the right word to use because again, there's a few

614
00:48:37,248 --> 00:48:37,849
caveats to that.

615
00:48:37,849 --> 00:48:46,782
For example, let's say it's like a winter's day and you're just a little bit kind of stiff
and you could always loosen up and get into an exercise, right?

616
00:48:46,782 --> 00:48:51,104
So that's kind of not what I mean, but it's kind of almost like an intuitive feeling.

617
00:48:51,104 --> 00:48:53,915
It's like honing in onto those body.

618
00:48:53,985 --> 00:48:55,655
or your body signaling.

619
00:48:55,655 --> 00:49:03,498
So I think that's something that can be practiced and can be improved over time in terms
of how well you can come in tune with your body signaling.

620
00:49:03,498 --> 00:49:13,430
But if you're, if you're feeling like really, really unmotivated to go into the gym, for
example, but you've forced yourself because it's part of your routine, it's a fixed day

621
00:49:13,430 --> 00:49:14,181
pattern you're into.

622
00:49:14,181 --> 00:49:19,082
For example, you know, on Thursdays you go and do a push and pull, whatever the case type
thing.

623
00:49:19,082 --> 00:49:21,503
That's a dangerous place to be in first of all.

624
00:49:21,503 --> 00:49:23,703
And that's what I would

625
00:49:23,703 --> 00:49:32,040
know, when I coach clients, sort of tried to, it's one of the first things that we try to
work through is to try and break free from that mentality around fixed day patterns and

626
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:32,820
understanding the body.

627
00:49:32,820 --> 00:49:33,521
Yeah.

628
00:49:33,521 --> 00:49:40,677
If you're, if you're low moods and you're really not, you're not feeling motivated to, if
you look at weight and you think, God, I really don't fancy this.

629
00:49:40,677 --> 00:49:50,625
Then you're likely pushing yourself way too hard and you're, you're, you're having
symptoms of burnout and overreaching, which is the technical term in this sort of fitness,

630
00:49:50,625 --> 00:49:53,849
technical fitness term is overreaching burnout and overreaching.

631
00:49:53,849 --> 00:49:55,897
basically where you're just pushing yourself way too much.

632
00:49:55,897 --> 00:49:57,027
Good to know.

633
00:49:57,028 --> 00:50:00,550
And I guess you mentioned feeling into your body.

634
00:50:00,550 --> 00:50:06,703
mean, that's another topic for another time because that's not something you want to learn
tomorrow, is it?

635
00:50:06,703 --> 00:50:16,578
It takes a bit of time to notice whether it's up here not wanting to do it and you're
going to do it anyway or is your body saying, please no.

636
00:50:16,779 --> 00:50:17,881
So, yeah.

637
00:50:17,881 --> 00:50:20,013
Yeah, yeah, you're right.

638
00:50:20,013 --> 00:50:21,154
It does take time.

639
00:50:21,154 --> 00:50:26,588
I think, I mean, we all sort of understand our body a little bit, right?

640
00:50:26,588 --> 00:50:31,161
We know when we've got a complaint and we know when we're feeling loose, right?

641
00:50:32,022 --> 00:50:33,753
So you just start by that point.

642
00:50:33,753 --> 00:50:35,935
But experimentation is important.

643
00:50:35,935 --> 00:50:44,291
It's a word that I use often whenever I'm speaking to somebody or whether I'm actually
coaching somebody.

644
00:50:44,589 --> 00:50:49,392
even on my own life, it's all about experimentation and seeing what works and what doesn't
work.

645
00:50:49,392 --> 00:50:59,359
that's again, you could, you can put that against the way that we eat or trial in
different foods, food experiments, or for example, you know, there's so many buzzwords out

646
00:50:59,359 --> 00:51:00,630
there at the moment.

647
00:51:00,930 --> 00:51:04,323
But I've pretty much been through all of them in terms of self experimentation.

648
00:51:04,323 --> 00:51:13,779
So whether, you know, it's gluten free, whether it's low carb, or it's keto, whether it's,
for example, intermittent fasting or,

649
00:51:14,215 --> 00:51:18,675
two day fasting or 16, eight over a period.

650
00:51:18,755 --> 00:51:30,115
Whenever these kind of topics come up, you can't really have a strong opinion, can you,
until you've tried it yourself is what I'm trying to say.

651
00:51:30,315 --> 00:51:34,995
So if you do try these things, first of you'll get the experience of it.

652
00:51:34,995 --> 00:51:39,675
Certainly, will give you, we're all bio individuals, we all react slightly different.

653
00:51:40,435 --> 00:51:43,975
But that's a good process to go through when it comes to things like body movement.

654
00:51:43,975 --> 00:51:46,495
when it comes to stretching.

655
00:51:46,515 --> 00:51:49,635
For example, let's say you never stretch, right?

656
00:51:49,635 --> 00:51:51,345
You never do some kind of dynamic stretch.

657
00:51:51,345 --> 00:51:57,455
Remember that static stretch where you actually hold a stretch to sort of try and improve
flexibility or whether you're just doing it in like a bit like I talked about the football

658
00:51:57,455 --> 00:52:02,035
warmup, whether you're doing sort of like stretches just to be able to loosen the body.

659
00:52:02,135 --> 00:52:13,015
Now, if you never do stretches and you might want to trial or experiment a week where in
the first 10 minutes of the day as you're waiting for the kettle to boil for your morning

660
00:52:13,015 --> 00:52:13,915
coffee,

661
00:52:13,915 --> 00:52:15,876
You do a few dynamic stretches.

662
00:52:15,936 --> 00:52:24,460
And then at the end of the, you might record what that looks like just on a bit of hand,
you know, pencil and a notepad to say, yep, definitely made me feel better.

663
00:52:24,460 --> 00:52:27,801
And then maybe record that by the end of a week and see what that happens.

664
00:52:27,801 --> 00:52:29,302
And this is what I mean by experiment.

665
00:52:29,302 --> 00:52:39,056
It's like, it's like small, small changes, but if you habit stack it with something that
you do anyway, I E switched on the kettle in the morning to make sure that you do it, you

666
00:52:39,056 --> 00:52:41,723
can actually start to sort of like,

667
00:52:41,723 --> 00:52:48,649
without realizing over a period of a month or two months or three months, as long as every
week you're trying something new, you suddenly go, wow, I've had some big shifts.

668
00:52:48,649 --> 00:52:52,361
I've had some really big lifestyle shifts and it's made a really big difference.

669
00:52:52,361 --> 00:52:53,772
I'm not going back.

670
00:52:53,993 --> 00:52:57,135
So it's kind of like that process.

671
00:52:57,535 --> 00:53:05,592
You can't expect to change in a day or to sort of take on new habits in a day, but you've
got to start being proactive in terms of how you experiment and sort of get out of your

672
00:53:05,592 --> 00:53:07,194
own way in terms of that comfort zone.

673
00:53:07,194 --> 00:53:07,894
Brilliant.

674
00:53:07,894 --> 00:53:08,814
Yep.

675
00:53:09,154 --> 00:53:10,874
That makes so much sense, doesn't it?

676
00:53:10,874 --> 00:53:11,354
is.

677
00:53:11,354 --> 00:53:12,414
It's awareness.

678
00:53:12,414 --> 00:53:18,794
And as you said, awareness and being curious about your body and how you do things, just
because you always have.

679
00:53:18,794 --> 00:53:21,734
Since when you were 20 and now you said, you know, 39, 40 or something.

680
00:53:21,734 --> 00:53:23,654
Yeah, I'm not quite as bouncy as I used to be.

681
00:53:23,654 --> 00:53:24,814
I'm not quite as robust.

682
00:53:24,814 --> 00:53:25,654
Yep.

683
00:53:26,134 --> 00:53:26,894
Yep.

684
00:53:26,894 --> 00:53:28,134
You wait till you're 50.

685
00:53:28,134 --> 00:53:29,106
Yeah.

686
00:53:29,203 --> 00:53:30,394
well, this is what everybody says.

687
00:53:30,394 --> 00:53:36,126
I'm kind of, taking, I'm almost like investing now, if that makes sense.

688
00:53:36,126 --> 00:53:44,848
And I think on that note, by the way, like we should definitely say that, you know,
whenever it comes to anything to do with self -improvement, whether it's from, you know,

689
00:53:44,848 --> 00:53:51,270
whether it's something you're doing in your work, your career, whether it's something to
film from a hobby perspective to something that you're interested in.

690
00:53:51,270 --> 00:53:55,333
or whether it's through anything to do with health and fitness, it's never ever too late,
right?

691
00:53:55,333 --> 00:53:56,795
It's never ever too late.

692
00:53:56,795 --> 00:54:00,919
And the body is remarkable in how quickly it can change.

693
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:05,303
So adapt is probably a better word to use than change.

694
00:54:05,484 --> 00:54:12,170
And that's proven, you know, if you use the fitness analogy, if you do some pushups, guess
what?

695
00:54:12,170 --> 00:54:16,812
know, if you do a few sets during your first week,

696
00:54:16,812 --> 00:54:19,855
you return to it the next week, you'll be able to do two or three repetitions more.

697
00:54:19,855 --> 00:54:24,450
That's just the basic example of adaptation.

698
00:54:24,450 --> 00:54:34,672
The same thing applies to if you're going to try fasting for the first time, if you're
going to try anything of all of these types of positive lifestyle changes, your body will

699
00:54:34,672 --> 00:54:38,545
adapt quite quickly and things get easier and improve over time.

700
00:54:39,962 --> 00:54:40,902
Brilliant.

701
00:54:41,643 --> 00:54:44,415
Mark, you've given me so much information.

702
00:54:44,415 --> 00:54:45,715
You've given us so much information.

703
00:54:45,715 --> 00:54:47,126
Thank you very much.

704
00:54:47,286 --> 00:54:52,160
Where can people find out more about you, what you do, why you do?

705
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:57,324
Where you can find me is my, my, my business, my coaching business.

706
00:54:57,324 --> 00:55:00,226
It's just me and it's called Coach Overton.

707
00:55:00,347 --> 00:55:03,930
The website is www .coachoverton .com.

708
00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:04,501
Okay.

709
00:55:04,501 --> 00:55:08,954
That's my website on my web on my website, you'll find a free course.

710
00:55:09,050 --> 00:55:10,191
which you can just click through.

711
00:55:10,191 --> 00:55:10,922
on the homepage.

712
00:55:10,922 --> 00:55:21,340
You can just click through and it asks you for your email address and you can just pop in
there and it's a online course that's bite size information.

713
00:55:21,340 --> 00:55:32,029
You could go through it in one sitting or take a few days to go through it, but that will
give you a really good kind of summary, if you like, of the philosophy that I follow that

714
00:55:32,029 --> 00:55:34,651
is unconventional in some ways.

715
00:55:34,651 --> 00:55:38,474
But as I said, it's getting a lot of media because of the

716
00:55:38,552 --> 00:55:49,325
approach that it provides, veering away from kind of over the top training, but
particularly that kind of traditional way of eating that let's say the wellness plate

717
00:55:49,325 --> 00:55:53,616
might give that's based on lots of grains at the bottom of the pyramid.

718
00:55:53,616 --> 00:55:56,447
This is based more on kind of whole natural foods.

719
00:55:57,547 --> 00:56:04,099
So that's where you can find me also linked in as well, Mark Overton, I tried to do quite
a lot of LinkedIn and I'm doing some webinars now.

720
00:56:04,099 --> 00:56:05,530
So keep an eye out for me there.

721
00:56:05,530 --> 00:56:07,290
Like if you want to connect with me.

722
00:56:07,502 --> 00:56:11,427
reach out and any questions you've got happy to ask on there too.

723
00:56:11,427 --> 00:56:13,409
And that's it.

724
00:56:13,409 --> 00:56:14,520
That's where I am.

725
00:56:15,086 --> 00:56:15,856
Brilliant, thank you.

726
00:56:15,856 --> 00:56:19,769
Well, I'll put all your details in the show notes because there's an awful lot to get
through there.

727
00:56:19,769 --> 00:56:21,389
That was fabulous.

728
00:56:22,030 --> 00:56:23,130
Yeah, no, thank you.

729
00:56:23,130 --> 00:56:29,663
And what's really refreshing is it's not you have to do this, thou shalt do this, thou
shalt do this.

730
00:56:29,663 --> 00:56:31,914
You you can't eat this, have to eat that.

731
00:56:31,914 --> 00:56:33,565
You know, how many things have I written down?

732
00:56:33,565 --> 00:56:34,615
I've got to.

733
00:56:34,775 --> 00:56:36,206
I love that simplicity.

734
00:56:36,206 --> 00:56:40,518
And as you said, when it's effortless and you enjoy it.

735
00:56:42,209 --> 00:56:43,100
One last question.

736
00:56:43,100 --> 00:56:50,035
What is your superpower that you have made sense of by turning your life around?

737
00:56:50,035 --> 00:56:50,515
I love it.

738
00:56:50,515 --> 00:56:55,418
It's such a deep question and I love a deep question.

739
00:56:55,698 --> 00:57:10,237
The answer to that is by turning my life around, I've almost without meaning to as I think
I've explained quite thoroughly, I've become aligned to my true calling, which not only

740
00:57:10,237 --> 00:57:18,401
serves me personally from the person that you see in front of you right now, but deep
within my soul.

741
00:57:18,553 --> 00:57:24,687
but it's also going to be my way of positively impacting humanity, right?

742
00:57:24,687 --> 00:57:33,292
In terms of how many people I can help, how many people I can reach the ripple effects
that that will have on their lives, their family's lives.

743
00:57:34,693 --> 00:57:44,929
Being a role model to my children in terms of not sort of feeling the pressure that I
should just go out and do anything to be able to provide.

744
00:57:45,179 --> 00:57:59,283
I should that they in their young lives they have seen daddy fully driven towards his
purpose and not giving up however rough things got because I believe that in the future

745
00:57:59,664 --> 00:58:08,866
that once the abundant side of things comes I don't necessarily mean that from a financial
point of view I just mean it from in terms of all of the good things that will come just

746
00:58:08,866 --> 00:58:11,477
by me being aligned to my tool calling.

747
00:58:11,565 --> 00:58:16,665
they will see, they will grow up in that environment and it will push them on too.

748
00:58:16,665 --> 00:58:20,789
I love that and I think that is so important.

749
00:58:20,789 --> 00:58:27,857
You're choosing just to work from your heart, aren't you, and what is important to you and
that alignment and it makes such a difference.

750
00:58:27,857 --> 00:58:28,802
safety.

751
00:58:29,345 --> 00:58:30,116
Mark, thank you.

752
00:58:30,116 --> 00:58:32,187
This has been a great conversation.

753
00:58:32,187 --> 00:58:33,108
I've really enjoyed it.

754
00:58:33,108 --> 00:58:34,408
I've learned an awful lot.

755
00:58:34,408 --> 00:58:37,300
I'm going to be on your website and looking up for one or two things on there.

756
00:58:37,300 --> 00:58:39,191
So, yeah.

757
00:58:39,191 --> 00:58:42,233
So thank you ever so much for being here today.

758
00:58:43,443 --> 00:58:47,803
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Crucible: Conversations for the Curious.

759
00:58:47,803 --> 00:58:56,443
If these powerful stories of transformation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe
and share this show with anyone who you think could do with a dose of inspiration for

760
00:58:56,443 --> 00:58:57,383
their own journey.

761
00:58:57,383 --> 00:59:03,963
I would really appreciate it if you could make any comments on your favourite podcast
platform as well, that helps me reach more people.

762
00:59:03,963 --> 00:59:07,423
All the important links and information are in the show notes below.

763
00:59:07,423 --> 00:59:10,507
Thank you very much for listening and catch up with you soon.