WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.115 Sam Sethi: And if we get it right then we will. 00:00:03.185 --> 00:00:08.705 There is now one killer feature which I can tell you about in a minute, but that's the killer feature that I think will switch us all. 00:00:10.975 --> 00:00:15.725 Neil McPhedran: Welcome to Continuing Studies, a podcast for higher education podcasters to learn and get inspired. 00:00:15.895 --> 00:00:21.104 I'm Neil McPhedran, founder of Podium Podcasts, an agency for higher education podcasters. 00:00:21.464 --> 00:00:27.004 Jennifer-Lee: And I'm Jennifer-Lee, and I'm the founder of Jpod Creations, podcasting is broadcasting. 00:00:27.004 --> 00:00:28.924 And we want you to know you're not alone. 00:00:28.934 --> 00:00:31.865 In fact, there are many of you higher ed podcasters out there. 00:00:32.170 --> 00:00:33.920 And we can all learn from each other. 00:00:34.420 --> 00:00:35.060 Neil McPhedran: That's right, Jen. 00:00:35.130 --> 00:00:41.120 And don't forget to join the community on higheredpods.com. 00:00:41.480 --> 00:00:51.680 So in this episode, Jen, we are going to continue our journey into Podcasting 2.0 that we started back in episode 25 with James Cridland. 00:00:51.950 --> 00:01:05.934 Jennifer-Lee: I'm so excited about this because James turned me on to Podcasting 2.0 and now we're talking to someone building a Podcasting 2.0 app and my mind is gonna be blowing because I am now such a supporter of Podcast 2.0. 00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:07.880 I'm jumping on that bandwagon. 00:01:07.889 --> 00:01:08.279 So, 00:01:08.300 --> 00:01:09.210 Neil McPhedran: Choo choo. 00:01:09.300 --> 00:01:09.570 Jennifer-Lee: What? 00:01:09.600 --> 00:01:10.020 Choo choo. 00:01:10.999 --> 00:01:11.700 I love it. 00:01:11.710 --> 00:01:12.199 Bandwagon. 00:01:12.210 --> 00:01:13.950 No, that's a train, not a bandwagon. 00:01:13.950 --> 00:01:15.170 I don't know what a bandwagon makes. 00:01:15.845 --> 00:01:16.255 A sound? 00:01:16.255 --> 00:01:17.385 Actually, that's a good question. 00:01:17.655 --> 00:01:21.025 Neil, what kind of sound does a bandwagon make? 00:01:21.825 --> 00:01:22.385 Neil McPhedran: I don't know. 00:01:22.445 --> 00:01:23.505 That's another podcast. 00:01:23.505 --> 00:01:24.475 Jennifer-Lee: That's another podcast. 00:01:24.505 --> 00:01:28.915 Anyways, uh, we're exploring a podcast 2.0 app. 00:01:29.285 --> 00:01:33.949 For people who are doing Podcasting 2.0, we want them listening on the apps and playing nicely with each other. 00:01:34.289 --> 00:01:38.690 Who better talk to, of course, Sam Sethi, who is knee deep in building one. 00:01:38.699 --> 00:01:44.329 It's a podcast 2.0 app called TrueFans, and he's also James lovely co host. 00:01:44.329 --> 00:01:50.699 We were kind of getting the dirt on James yesterday, which I kind of like, and he's the co host of Pod News Weekly Review. 00:01:51.284 --> 00:01:51.864 Neil McPhedran: Excellent. 00:01:52.265 --> 00:01:57.475 And remember that we're also continuing our 2.0 segments. 00:01:57.485 --> 00:02:04.375 And today we're going to feature and I'm going to talk about the OP3 Prefix Analytics Service. 00:02:04.534 --> 00:02:06.264 Jennifer-Lee: And I have no clue what that is. 00:02:06.274 --> 00:02:07.634 So I'm going to have to listen. 00:02:07.645 --> 00:02:10.965 So Neil's teaching me as well as all of you. 00:02:11.255 --> 00:02:11.555 Neil McPhedran: Great. 00:02:11.695 --> 00:02:12.345 Let's get into it. 00:02:12.685 --> 00:02:13.605 Jennifer-Lee: Let's get started.. 00:02:15.265 --> 00:02:16.734 Neil McPhedran: Sam, thanks for joining us today. 00:02:16.814 --> 00:02:18.174 Jennifer-Lee: Thank you for inviting me. 00:02:18.274 --> 00:02:19.045 Very excited. 00:02:19.204 --> 00:02:28.765 Neil McPhedran: So Sam, why don't you just quickly give us a bit of an introduction about yourself as well as, you have a specific role in the Podcasting 2.0 space, I believe. 00:02:29.784 --> 00:02:30.534 Sam Sethi: Ah, yes. 00:02:30.545 --> 00:02:31.214 So, okay. 00:02:31.215 --> 00:02:36.064 CEO of TrueFans, which is a new Podcasting 2.0 app. 00:02:36.124 --> 00:02:42.290 I also co host Pod News Weekly with James Cridland, the goat of the industry, I like to call him. 00:02:42.570 --> 00:02:44.579 He calls himself many other things, but I call him that. 00:02:45.519 --> 00:02:52.480 And I, for want of a better reason, I am the Podcast Standard Project Chief Evangelist. 00:02:52.540 --> 00:02:54.290 We can unpack what that means later on. 00:02:55.160 --> 00:02:56.380 Jennifer-Lee: I'm loving your title. 00:02:56.380 --> 00:02:59.590 I was like, how do you get a title like that is what I want to know? 00:02:59.650 --> 00:03:00.680 And what does it mean? 00:03:00.900 --> 00:03:06.539 Sam Sethi: You make it up and you tell everyone what you want it to be, and then they go, oh, okay, you can have that one. 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:08.980 Jennifer-Lee: We need to make new titles, uh, Neil. 00:03:10.260 --> 00:03:11.859 Neil McPhedran: Well, I don't know. 00:03:11.940 --> 00:03:15.690 I think that Sam is taking on a bit of a role with that title as well too, so. 00:03:15.750 --> 00:03:43.260 So we had James on and we went deep into what Podcasting 2.0 is and some of the amazing features and opportunities it brings to the podcast ecosystem, but off the top, before we get into TrueFans and all the amazing things you're building there, I'd love to just start with getting your take on why our audience, higher education podcasters, should be thinking about embracing and adopting Podcasting 2.0. 00:03:43.340 --> 00:03:47.200 Sam Sethi: So 2.0 to me, let's look at the problems in podcasting in general. 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:50.160 Discovery, I think, is a well known problem. 00:03:50.160 --> 00:03:56.200 If there's four million podcasts, getting another one into the pool and finding out who or what it is, is really hard. 00:03:56.580 --> 00:03:59.600 Interactivity is the other one, and monetization is the third one. 00:03:59.600 --> 00:04:01.810 So I tend to focus on those three. 00:04:01.910 --> 00:04:11.719 So when you look at discovery, what Podcasting 2.0 has tried to do is bring out, let's look at some of the low hanging fruit, things like the person tag. 00:04:12.009 --> 00:04:13.829 Okay, who the hell is this host? 00:04:14.089 --> 00:04:15.099 What do they look like? 00:04:15.099 --> 00:04:17.169 How can I connect with them better? 00:04:17.229 --> 00:04:20.659 So the person tag gives me that little, you know, imagery. 00:04:21.159 --> 00:04:25.079 Um, maybe I want to look at chapters, break this podcast down. 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:26.299 Maybe I want a transcript. 00:04:26.309 --> 00:04:33.989 So some of the 2.0 tags, features, um, metadata, are ways, I think, of really helping. 00:04:34.474 --> 00:04:38.804 listeners get to know and find out more about a podcast. 00:04:38.844 --> 00:04:43.674 In terms of discovery, then there are many other things that we're building in that make it easier. 00:04:44.284 --> 00:04:47.604 But I think the first and foremost is, you know, who's, who's the host? 00:04:47.604 --> 00:04:48.374 What do they look like? 00:04:48.374 --> 00:04:49.094 Who's the co host? 00:04:49.094 --> 00:04:49.814 Who's the guest? 00:04:50.264 --> 00:04:51.424 Can I leave them a comment? 00:04:51.694 --> 00:04:56.354 And you know, those things really help when you're trying to get to know a new podcast. 00:04:56.994 --> 00:04:58.854 Things like trailers are great. 00:04:59.214 --> 00:05:03.145 That was one of the things that started to come out very early from Podcasting 2.0. 00:05:03.145 --> 00:05:08.019 So can I put out a three minute trailer to tell people what my podcast looks like. 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:15.839 And then you get into some of the more, what I call, very complex ideas that have to be made simpler around monetization. 00:05:15.849 --> 00:05:19.019 Jennifer-Lee: Do you think that a lot of it also has to do with expectations? 00:05:19.019 --> 00:05:23.249 Because obviously, we can create all this stuff and make it a little bit easier to find. 00:05:23.249 --> 00:05:31.339 But I think a lot of people, and you said the M word, they just start a podcast and they're like, I'm gonna monetize tomorrow. 00:05:31.369 --> 00:05:34.839 So we can make all the tools in the world, but we have to work hand in hand with them. 00:05:35.219 --> 00:05:41.304 Sam Sethi: Yeah, I think monetization, if your goal is to monetize first, then you're going to podfade very fast. 00:05:41.334 --> 00:05:46.024 I think you have to have a passion and that passion comes across in how you present. 00:05:46.054 --> 00:05:54.694 You can fake it for a while but I don't think you can fake it all the time and I think you will very very quickly get bored of your own podcast if you don't have a natural passion. 00:05:54.734 --> 00:05:59.534 If all it is is about making money there's probably better and easier ways to make money, if money is all that you want. 00:05:59.694 --> 00:06:01.874 Neil McPhedran: So tell us about TrueFans. 00:06:01.894 --> 00:06:03.014 What have you been building? 00:06:03.339 --> 00:06:07.839 Why are you taking on this giant task of building a new podcast app? 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:11.619 Don't we, aren't we good with Spotify and Apple and YouTube? 00:06:11.619 --> 00:06:12.289 Sam Sethi: We are, no. 00:06:13.049 --> 00:06:16.539 I wish you'd told me that two years ago and I would've gone, yes, you are right. 00:06:16.719 --> 00:06:18.849 I would've gone home and got two years of my life back. 00:06:19.059 --> 00:06:21.979 I think what it was, my background is technical. 00:06:22.119 --> 00:06:23.309 I love technology. 00:06:23.429 --> 00:06:26.874 I got asked by somebody else to start building something with them. 00:06:27.014 --> 00:06:37.554 At the time I had a radio station that I owned and ran, and I was doing podcasts with James, I was getting more involved in what this new thing called Podcasting 2.0 was, and I thought, oh this is really cool. 00:06:37.674 --> 00:06:43.124 I started building this out, and they then abandoned ship, and I went, actually, I quite like this. 00:06:43.134 --> 00:06:54.114 So I kept building, and fundamentally, I think what we're trying to do is push the boundaries of where podcasting is to, you know, give users another way of looking at it. 00:06:54.164 --> 00:07:01.734 Now, I think what we're going to find, because again, one of my backgrounds, I used to be the product manager at a company called Netscape, if anyone remembers Netscape. 00:07:01.994 --> 00:07:02.284 Neil McPhedran: Yep. 00:07:02.454 --> 00:07:06.834 Sam Sethi: So, I was in the browser wars, I remember HTML, and I remember fighting Microsoft. 00:07:07.224 --> 00:07:10.844 And I feel like I'm in the podcast wars against Apple and Spotify. 00:07:11.334 --> 00:07:14.974 And, and, at the moment, Spotify is winning it, really are winning it. 00:07:14.974 --> 00:07:16.084 They're killing it right now. 00:07:16.434 --> 00:07:17.884 Apple, I think, are fading. 00:07:18.194 --> 00:07:19.124 I really do. 00:07:19.164 --> 00:07:24.214 I think they're struggling really to find their niche. 00:07:24.254 --> 00:07:28.094 I mean, they're not going to struggle because they're the default monopoly on the iPhone. 00:07:28.719 --> 00:07:29.929 But, I think they're struggling. 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:35.779 So, they should try, like they did recently, embrace more of the Podcasting 2.0 tags. 00:07:35.779 --> 00:07:47.089 They embraced transcripts recently, and they've got chapters, and I think they could be the open standards champion to the closed Spotify proprietary platform. 00:07:47.259 --> 00:07:50.209 That's the role I'd love Apple to take, whether they'll take it or not. 00:07:50.669 --> 00:07:53.349 And so, in the absence of Apple, there's a whole bunch of us. 00:07:53.349 --> 00:07:56.459 TrueFans is one, but there's Fountain, Podverse, Podfriend. 00:07:57.364 --> 00:07:58.174 Podcast Guru. 00:07:58.644 --> 00:08:02.004 Um, lots of us are trying to build out apps. 00:08:02.004 --> 00:08:10.084 Now it's hard, I'm not going to lie, you know, trying to push the rock up the hill to A, get people to switch from one of those two big platforms. 00:08:10.084 --> 00:08:14.694 And then of course, YouTube comes along on the side and decides they're going to play in podcasting as well. 00:08:14.804 --> 00:08:16.244 So you've got that challenge. 00:08:16.244 --> 00:08:21.064 Then you've got the challenge of making people understand what are these new tags and how do they use them. 00:08:21.144 --> 00:08:29.754 And hosts don't want to implement them because, you know, when you speak to a host like Buzzsprout or, uh, let's say RSS Blue, oh, they go, okay, we've put the person tag in. 00:08:29.864 --> 00:08:36.164 And their customer support person goes, hey, I put the person tag in, in my hosting app, but I went to Spotify and it wasn't there. 00:08:36.724 --> 00:08:38.384 Or I went to Apple and it didn't appear. 00:08:38.574 --> 00:08:40.584 And then they go, why, why, what's going on? 00:08:40.614 --> 00:08:42.564 And they go, no, no, no, you need one of these newer apps. 00:08:42.584 --> 00:08:43.774 Oh, I don't want to use them yet. 00:08:43.814 --> 00:08:45.854 No, no, no, I'm very happy in my little world. 00:08:45.894 --> 00:08:47.584 So chicken, meat, egg, right? 00:08:47.694 --> 00:08:53.504 How do we get tags put in by hosts when the big behemoths won't support them? 00:08:53.879 --> 00:09:02.069 And that middle ground is really where apps like TrueFans come in to try and show what the future of podcasting might look like if all these new features are enabled. 00:09:02.449 --> 00:09:06.319 Jennifer-Lee: So this is the thing that I was just talking to Neil, I grapple with. 00:09:06.349 --> 00:09:10.779 Because after talking to James, I'm like a 2.0 believer now. 00:09:10.779 --> 00:09:13.589 I didn't understand what it was, but he made it so clear. 00:09:13.589 --> 00:09:15.769 Now I'm like praising him and loving it. 00:09:16.299 --> 00:09:21.674 But this is the thing, you have Spotify, which is closed and they're doing their own thing. 00:09:21.694 --> 00:09:25.144 And people know it because of the brand and everything like that. 00:09:25.384 --> 00:09:33.594 And then you have all the people doing the 2.0 stuff, and people who are new into podcasting are getting a little bit confused. 00:09:33.594 --> 00:09:36.874 So how do you get them on board with all the 2.0 stuff? 00:09:36.894 --> 00:09:42.164 Like you said, when some of the other players are not necessarily playing in that sandbox and they're big. 00:09:42.574 --> 00:09:44.569 Sam Sethi: I don't think you can force them into it. 00:09:44.589 --> 00:09:49.339 I think you have to show them value in whatever mechanism that is, right? 00:09:49.369 --> 00:09:54.079 So if I want to leave a comment on a podcast that's only on Apple Podcasts, how do I do it? 00:09:54.079 --> 00:09:54.889 I can't do it, right? 00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:56.419 There is no way to do it. 00:09:56.459 --> 00:10:04.619 If I want to find out what you two guys look like on your podcast, well, sorry, you're not famous, SmartLess, you know, A listers. 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:08.039 So unfortunately, you know, not far off, but nearly there. 00:10:08.359 --> 00:10:13.709 But it's in the behest of Apple to allow you to have your images on your podcast. 00:10:13.779 --> 00:10:21.199 So if you then say, well, actually, by the way, if you go over to one of these apps, you'll get all these extra features from us. 00:10:21.689 --> 00:10:23.169 Then that's the value. 00:10:23.189 --> 00:10:26.349 Now, the first values were, hey, you can get chapters. 00:10:26.349 --> 00:10:33.209 So in the chapter, you'll get links from the things we talk about in the show, and you'll get some cover art in the chapters that will tell you more about what we're talking about. 00:10:33.259 --> 00:10:35.659 So that's that secondary screen if you want it. 00:10:35.699 --> 00:10:37.079 And again, if you want the transcript. 00:10:37.139 --> 00:10:45.584 So a lot of those early dual tags that gave value, were the ones that we think will make new users say, you know what? 00:10:45.604 --> 00:10:46.744 I'm going to give it a try. 00:10:46.844 --> 00:10:48.964 I'm going to switch out of that Apple thing for a bit. 00:10:49.014 --> 00:10:50.084 And I'm going to go over here. 00:10:50.304 --> 00:10:51.394 It's not an easy one. 00:10:51.494 --> 00:10:56.594 Now I'm not saying, you know, we've got an easy win here, but I do think we have the right direction. 00:10:57.064 --> 00:10:57.784 I've seen it before. 00:10:57.784 --> 00:11:07.254 As I said, in the browser wars, it takes a while for that, that rock to reach the top of the hill, but when he gets there and goes down the other side, momentum really does kick in fast. 00:11:07.314 --> 00:11:14.804 Jennifer-Lee: I think when people understand it too, and that's the thing, is like James needs to come and talk to everybody because as soon as he told me about it, I was like, yeah. 00:11:14.804 --> 00:11:16.174 So maybe that that's his mission. 00:11:16.174 --> 00:11:18.724 Send him out to talk to every individual podcaster. 00:11:19.194 --> 00:11:20.174 Sam Sethi: I think he does, doesn't he? 00:11:20.175 --> 00:11:22.024 Doesn't he do that anyway already? 00:11:22.164 --> 00:11:22.354 Jennifer-Lee: Already. 00:11:22.644 --> 00:11:23.744 Just get him to knock on doors. 00:11:26.284 --> 00:11:36.859 Neil McPhedran: I think as, as podcasters, part of our job though is, and I just don't hear this enough, is directing our audiences towards trying some of these new apps. 00:11:36.859 --> 00:11:48.259 And, and, you know, this is something we've made a concerted effort to do with this podcast and we will keep doing is, is pointing our audience towards other apps to try. 00:11:48.289 --> 00:11:55.449 And then our audience has all of their podcast audiences and, and they can, and they can do it. 00:11:55.449 --> 00:12:01.509 So, I think part of our mission is, is to, more like where Jen is on her journey. 00:12:01.509 --> 00:12:15.274 So I was further along, uh, now you're on board and now the job is now, okay, get more of these evangelists and then we can start to get, um, us talking to our audiences about trying these, these apps, et cetera. 00:12:15.274 --> 00:12:17.584 I think that's, that must be part of it. 00:12:17.584 --> 00:12:18.884 Any thoughts around that, Sam? 00:12:20.034 --> 00:12:21.494 Sam Sethi: Yeah, I agree. 00:12:21.494 --> 00:12:28.524 Look, you get the geeks, people like me who, who build stuff, and we are the first on board, right? 00:12:28.524 --> 00:12:33.884 And then we, we try and explain it to the early adopters and the early adopters to explain it to their audience. 00:12:33.884 --> 00:12:35.694 Then, so on and so forth. 00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:39.309 I don't think right now we've got a killer feature yet. 00:12:39.389 --> 00:12:41.519 And that's, that's the thing I'd like to say right. 00:12:41.989 --> 00:12:48.354 We haven't really individually come up with this, oh my god, I must switch moment, right? 00:12:48.374 --> 00:12:49.704 There isn't one of those yet. 00:12:50.294 --> 00:12:58.874 I think what we are beginning to see though, is that where most of the apps are focused on podcasting, most of the apps now have to go broader. 00:12:58.974 --> 00:13:11.924 And what I mean by that is we've started to see music, we've started to see courses, films, audiobooks, all delivered via RSS, but all being sort of aggregated together under Podcasting 2.0 apps. 00:13:12.334 --> 00:13:15.164 And that's the, that's the beauty of where we're going with it all. 00:13:15.164 --> 00:13:20.024 We're trying to create a aggregated view of digital content. 00:13:20.064 --> 00:13:26.734 So that if you want to listen to music like Spotify, but it happens to be an independent music artist, not Taylor Swift or, you know, Bruno Mars. 00:13:26.934 --> 00:13:28.654 If you want to listen to podcasts. 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:29.899 Yeah, it may not be Joe Rogan. 00:13:29.899 --> 00:13:33.609 Yes, we have Joe Rogan, but it's probably likely you're going to listen on Spotify. 00:13:33.609 --> 00:13:37.179 So, but you know, if you want independent podcast artists, then that's where you come. 00:13:37.309 --> 00:13:38.619 Courses is a great one. 00:13:38.619 --> 00:13:46.359 I mean, again, talking about higher education, we've now got this new tag called medium equals and medium equals books, courses, film. 00:13:46.439 --> 00:13:54.499 So what it allows you to do in your RSS is set that medium and that basically tells the app what type of podcast you're producing. 00:13:54.869 --> 00:13:58.099 And then the UI can be adapted to that podcast. 00:13:58.109 --> 00:14:07.119 So for example, with Barry, um, Podhome over in Holland, we did an example, he put out a course, Microsoft Azure course. 00:14:07.169 --> 00:14:10.819 And a bit like podcasts will be the latest episode at the top. 00:14:10.849 --> 00:14:18.689 Well, that would make no sense to have the latest lecture at the top, so you reverse it like you would an audio book, so lecture one, two, three, four. 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:26.669 And then you make it so that you can either say you can't listen to the next, you know, we've done it, so you can't listen to the next episode until you finish the last one. 00:14:27.044 --> 00:14:28.354 Because it's a course in this case. 00:14:28.764 --> 00:14:32.664 Or you might add the monetization element where you can pay for the course. 00:14:32.684 --> 00:14:39.734 So we're looking at how we can broaden the appeal of one app to cover more than just podcasting. 00:14:39.734 --> 00:14:42.324 And that may be the reason why people switch. 00:14:42.424 --> 00:14:51.774 Jennifer-Lee: I think that's brilliant because I have a client here in Vancouver that's a university and they started their podcast, not to just kind of obviously showcase to the university. 00:14:51.774 --> 00:14:55.574 They also use it, uh, within the university, with the students. 00:14:55.574 --> 00:14:58.584 They actually bake their case studies into their lessons plan. 00:14:58.584 --> 00:15:00.514 So then the kids have to listen to it. 00:15:00.544 --> 00:15:02.084 Or not kids, young adults, I don't know. 00:15:02.084 --> 00:15:05.564 Whoever's taking university, have to listen to it to do the course. 00:15:05.574 --> 00:15:09.654 So I feel like that's another element that you could use this in. 00:15:09.724 --> 00:15:14.874 Sam Sethi: Yeah, and I think what we are also seeing, so TrueFans is one of those that is pushing very hard. 00:15:14.924 --> 00:15:19.674 So we've just built a blogging platform in, we've just built a ticketing and event platform. 00:15:19.824 --> 00:15:31.244 And so the idea is now as a podcaster, okay, so you're listening to my podcast, oh by the way, next week I'm going to be in Seattle at this bar, come and join me here, get some tickets while you're listening, right? 00:15:31.424 --> 00:15:32.254 Oh, where do I have to go? 00:15:32.324 --> 00:15:33.244 Ticketmaster somewhere? 00:15:33.245 --> 00:15:34.564 No, no, no, right in the app. 00:15:34.724 --> 00:15:36.044 Here now, exactly. 00:15:36.134 --> 00:15:38.944 Then you go, oh, by the way, um, I've got a merch store. 00:15:39.004 --> 00:15:39.554 Oh, great. 00:15:39.654 --> 00:15:43.454 Okay, dip in and get me a coffee or get me a t shirt and support me, right? 00:15:43.634 --> 00:15:52.339 And then finally, you know, we're looking at all the, all the other areas that we can help monetize, not just around advertising or, you know, through host read ads. 00:15:52.349 --> 00:15:59.319 So again, I think when we start to aggregate all this stuff together and it becomes simple, and that's the key. 00:15:59.879 --> 00:16:07.814 Complexity is failed simplicity, and we have to make this simple so that people go, they're not thinking about the technology. 00:16:07.824 --> 00:16:10.724 The technology is hidden and it just works. 00:16:10.984 --> 00:16:11.884 So we're getting there. 00:16:12.054 --> 00:16:14.044 We're not there yet, but we are getting there. 00:16:14.114 --> 00:16:16.054 And I think that's what we're trying to do. 00:16:16.444 --> 00:16:20.364 And I know that the other apps in the podcasting 2.0 space are trying to do as well. 00:16:20.454 --> 00:16:22.604 And if we get it right, then we will. 00:16:22.654 --> 00:16:28.494 There is now one killer feature, which I can tell you about in a minute, but that's the killer feature that I think will switch us all. 00:16:28.594 --> 00:16:30.274 Jennifer-Lee: That's a good radio teaser there. 00:16:30.274 --> 00:16:31.554 I can tell that's your background. 00:16:34.049 --> 00:16:35.499 Neil McPhedran: Jen's background is radio. 00:16:35.499 --> 00:16:39.389 So at some point in time, she's got to bring that into every one of our episodes here. 00:16:39.390 --> 00:16:41.269 Jennifer-Lee: You're just jealous, so it's fine. 00:16:41.939 --> 00:16:44.489 Sam Sethi: Leave him hanging, leave him hanging through the ad. 00:16:44.619 --> 00:16:45.069 Neil McPhedran: There we go. 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:55.019 Okay. 00:16:55.239 --> 00:17:01.409 We promised an update on our journey to infuse Podcasting 2.0 into Continuing Studies and here we go. 00:17:01.439 --> 00:17:13.039 So podcasting, just a reminder, Podcasting 2.0 is making podcasting better for audiences, podcasters and developers with a set of new features and standards to make podcasting better for all of us. 00:17:13.159 --> 00:17:23.544 So in this episode, this little segment here, I'm going to talk about the OP3 Prefix Analytics Service. 00:17:23.594 --> 00:17:34.454 OP3 stands for Open Podcast Prefix Project and it's a free open source prefix analytics service committed to open data and listener privacy. 00:17:34.455 --> 00:17:40.534 Something that we higher ed podcasters should be embracing and love. 00:17:40.894 --> 00:17:43.994 Best is, it's easy to set up and there's no signup. 00:17:44.104 --> 00:17:46.624 There's no login required. 00:17:46.694 --> 00:18:00.244 Essentially what we're doing is we're pre pending, I know it's a crazy term, but we're pre pending the OP3 Prefix into our podcast URL, into our feed, and then that starts measuring downloads. 00:18:00.244 --> 00:18:01.224 It's really easy. 00:18:01.564 --> 00:18:08.219 Instructions are included in the show notes, and it's about adding the prefix. 00:18:08.219 --> 00:18:08.849 There can be more. 00:18:08.899 --> 00:18:12.819 If you've already got Chartable or something else in your feed, no problem. 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:14.629 It's easy to add another one. 00:18:14.639 --> 00:18:15.589 There's no limit. 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:16.659 So this is an addition. 00:18:16.659 --> 00:18:22.929 And then once you've added that prefix, you're up and going, and then you can start measuring your show. 00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:32.109 And OP3 then provides this free public stats page with industry standard podcast download metrics, and it's all detailed. 00:18:32.109 --> 00:18:32.669 It's really good. 00:18:32.679 --> 00:18:34.859 There's actually really good stuff in there. 00:18:34.929 --> 00:18:38.979 We use this instead of using our hosting platform analytics. 00:18:39.129 --> 00:18:43.644 So we work with, I think six or seven different hosting platforms. 00:18:43.814 --> 00:18:53.424 This is a great way that it standardizes it and it just creates a level play field, which again, I think is fabulous for a higher ed podcaster. 00:18:53.434 --> 00:18:55.754 So what are some advantages of it? 00:18:55.784 --> 00:18:56.964 Well, I got three big ones here. 00:18:56.974 --> 00:18:59.794 One, as I just mentioned, standardized analytics. 00:18:59.804 --> 00:19:07.564 So it's a way, that this OP3 is a way to provide standardized analytics for consistency, reliability. 00:19:07.824 --> 00:19:11.294 It's a common framework for us all to work from. 00:19:11.964 --> 00:19:20.164 And we're apples to apples versus our various hosting platforms might have different things going on. 00:19:20.164 --> 00:19:21.994 And it's not apples to apples. 00:19:22.704 --> 00:19:24.764 Two, transparency and trust. 00:19:24.784 --> 00:19:26.414 This is an open source project. 00:19:26.584 --> 00:19:29.944 Open source really lends us well to higher education. 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:36.389 And it promotes transparency, as I mentioned before, in data collection and in reporting. 00:19:36.679 --> 00:19:39.409 So there's a real trust level there as well. 00:19:39.869 --> 00:19:43.869 Three, interoperability, big mouthful, and flexibility. 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:49.129 So, it's designed to work with a wide range, actually, I think all hosting platforms. 00:19:49.129 --> 00:19:52.519 I haven't come across one yet that it doesn't work with, should work with all of them. 00:19:52.579 --> 00:19:59.379 And this flexibility allows us as podcasters to integrate this seamlessly into our existing workflows. 00:19:59.429 --> 00:20:01.309 We're not locked into some ecosystem. 00:20:01.649 --> 00:20:02.699 We change hosts. 00:20:03.489 --> 00:20:04.079 No problem. 00:20:04.229 --> 00:20:07.849 We've still got our standardized stats, our analytics. 00:20:08.159 --> 00:20:11.939 It's agnostic from the hosting platform, which is, which is great. 00:20:11.959 --> 00:20:20.759 So once again, we'll drop links to the OP3 setup page in our show notes, as well as all the instructions. 00:20:20.849 --> 00:20:25.919 We're also going to put in there, the link to the OP3 stats page for Continuing Studies. 00:20:25.939 --> 00:20:27.109 We're opening the kimono. 00:20:27.439 --> 00:20:30.559 You'll be able to see all of our stats right there. 00:20:30.609 --> 00:20:34.079 And you can see how everything is sorted, how it's been built. 00:20:34.139 --> 00:20:34.929 It's really great. 00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.989 Can't say more positive things about it. 00:20:38.379 --> 00:20:39.619 Send your questions my way. 00:20:39.649 --> 00:20:41.129 Our email is in the show notes. 00:20:41.159 --> 00:20:43.989 And if you're doing it, if you onboard it, please let us know. 00:20:43.999 --> 00:20:46.709 We'd love to hear and to check it out. 00:20:47.429 --> 00:20:49.089 I've done this with a whole bunch of podcasts. 00:20:49.089 --> 00:20:51.154 If you've got any questions, send them my way. 00:20:51.234 --> 00:20:54.024 Okay, now back to our interview with Sam. 00:20:54.924 --> 00:21:07.164 You know, like all those things you talk about, Sam, I think as I put my higher education podcaster hat on, and like so many of those features just feel so great for their higher education space. 00:21:07.224 --> 00:21:13.914 Courses, like the people part of academia and who they are is such an important part of academia. 00:21:14.294 --> 00:21:16.369 Events, like so on and so forth. 00:21:16.379 --> 00:21:24.859 So it's like the opportunity for this corner of the podcast, uh, world, I feel is ripe, especially. 00:21:24.859 --> 00:21:33.769 And so I think, you know, I'm, I'm hoping we can encourage a bit of a drive forward for, and maybe more of the higher education podcasters can be a part of this. 00:21:33.769 --> 00:21:39.754 So if someone out there is listening, how could they, I want to go back to your feature here, but I just sort of, while we're on this point, 00:21:39.834 --> 00:21:41.634 I know I'm hanging on a cliff right now. 00:21:41.634 --> 00:21:42.074 I need to know. 00:21:42.074 --> 00:21:42.574 I know, I know. 00:21:42.574 --> 00:21:43.174 I'm getting there. 00:21:43.204 --> 00:21:43.744 I'm getting there. 00:21:43.744 --> 00:21:44.264 I'm getting there. 00:21:44.334 --> 00:21:45.984 I'm not a radio background person. 00:21:45.984 --> 00:21:47.224 I'm learning as we go here. 00:21:47.914 --> 00:21:52.584 So like, how can people get involved with the, with the project? 00:21:52.584 --> 00:21:57.324 I guess, like, how can people get involved more than just trying to onboard some of this stuff? 00:21:57.324 --> 00:22:02.074 Like, I think like some of the folks that are in academia, this squarely makes sense for them to get involved. 00:22:02.134 --> 00:22:02.354 Sam Sethi: Yeah. 00:22:02.364 --> 00:22:03.484 I mean, there's a number of ways. 00:22:03.484 --> 00:22:13.155 I mean, most of the community that are building this out or talking about it or thinking about it are on Mastodon, on this new social media platform. 00:22:13.679 --> 00:22:17.059 Which you know, get yourself involved in a new space. 00:22:17.089 --> 00:22:24.389 Again, we're throwing so much new tech around, but the Mastodon is the answer to Elon Musk in X, right? 00:22:24.609 --> 00:22:27.279 Which was, that's just so horrible now. 00:22:27.309 --> 00:22:28.439 Let's all abandon ship. 00:22:28.449 --> 00:22:29.269 Where can we go? 00:22:29.369 --> 00:22:34.939 And you've now got a ten year old technology that's sort of been scraped out and refined. 00:22:34.939 --> 00:22:37.499 And everyone's gone, oh, that's where we need to go. 00:22:37.499 --> 00:22:39.419 And it's Mastodon and it's ActivityPub. 00:22:39.439 --> 00:22:42.724 And it's a distributed, decentralized social network. 00:22:42.724 --> 00:22:44.804 That's, that's the best I can sort of say. 00:22:45.054 --> 00:22:46.864 And so you go on it and all the geeks are there. 00:22:46.864 --> 00:22:53.154 So you can join a Mastodon, uh, client and then just get in and get involved in the community and people start to talk. 00:22:53.174 --> 00:22:59.184 If you're more inclined, there is a GitHub community, which I wouldn't advise, you know, the lay person to do. 00:22:59.204 --> 00:23:00.274 It is more technical. 00:23:00.924 --> 00:23:10.709 But if you just wanna just go to Podcasting2.0, um, and, and, you know, go in there, you can learn about the tags, you can learn about what's going on in that. 00:23:11.159 --> 00:23:22.979 And then of course there's the Podcast Standards Project, which I'm involved in, which again, we're, we're refining and we're, we're, we're trying to put that out as a marketing and education front to this whole podcasting 2.0 space. 00:23:23.059 --> 00:23:27.089 And you'll start to see a little bit, we've been working in the background on what's going to be done. 00:23:27.459 --> 00:23:29.609 And in the autumn, you'll start to see a lot more about it. 00:23:30.089 --> 00:23:31.649 Neil McPhedran: Okay Jen, now's your time to. 00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:33.609 Jennifer-Lee: I just, I'm waiting. 00:23:33.659 --> 00:23:36.839 And I was also like, oh he's speaking to me when you're like for the layman people. 00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:38.479 I was like, okay I'm not doing that. 00:23:38.529 --> 00:23:43.629 It's like, I'm dating myself here, but I need a book that's like Podcasting 2.0 for dummies. 00:23:43.629 --> 00:23:44.589 You know that series? 00:23:44.639 --> 00:23:46.079 That's what it really should be. 00:23:46.159 --> 00:23:46.559 Okay. 00:23:47.194 --> 00:23:49.064 Tell us about this new feature, because I'm dying. 00:23:49.354 --> 00:23:56.704 Sam Sethi: So, a rising tide raises all boats, and the only way we're really going to be able to take on Apple and Spotify is to work together. 00:23:56.994 --> 00:24:02.014 And so, the killer feature that we're all working towards is something called cross app comments. 00:24:02.090 --> 00:24:10.509 The idea is fundamentally that, you know, Neil might be using Truefans, Jen you might be using Fountain, I might be using Podverse. 00:24:10.769 --> 00:24:12.679 We're listening to the same episode. 00:24:12.789 --> 00:24:14.419 Now, but each one of us leaves a comment. 00:24:14.439 --> 00:24:18.199 Well, that's now siloed into that app, and that's just useless. 00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:23.989 Now, imagine if you could then aggregate all those comments and then have them flow between the apps. 00:24:24.009 --> 00:24:29.644 So it doesn't really matter which app you're using, but you can now have the audience choose their own app. 00:24:29.654 --> 00:24:32.144 They don't have to have this one specific app. 00:24:32.364 --> 00:24:35.174 Not only will that happen, but the comments will flow between them. 00:24:35.274 --> 00:24:40.534 But also other things, you know, you might be able to say, oh, so Neil's followed Jen on Podfest. 00:24:40.584 --> 00:24:41.044 Oh, okay. 00:24:41.044 --> 00:24:46.774 Well, when you load up another app, it goes, Oh, by the way, you know, what your friend is also on here that you followed on the other app. 00:24:46.784 --> 00:24:48.074 Why didn't you follow them here? 00:24:48.424 --> 00:24:50.084 Or you can automate that. 00:24:50.084 --> 00:25:03.109 So things like aggregating activity between the apps, so that it doesn't really matter which one you get onto, means that I think that's the way to try and break down the siloed nature of Spotify and Apple. 00:25:03.179 --> 00:25:08.659 If you try and get a small app like Truefans or Fountain, we haven't got the deep enough pockets to take on those big boys. 00:25:08.889 --> 00:25:15.399 But together, collectively, the eighteen or nineteen different Podcasting 2.0 apps can work together like a hive. 00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:18.849 And that's how I think we, we get people to switch. 00:25:18.869 --> 00:25:22.249 Because the value in the feature becomes really high. 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:24.919 Hey, I want to be able to talk to all my different people. 00:25:25.254 --> 00:25:28.024 As a podcast creator, I want to know where my audience is. 00:25:28.364 --> 00:25:29.564 I don't want to have to pre tell them. 00:25:29.654 --> 00:25:30.874 You must be on Apple. 00:25:31.004 --> 00:25:31.734 You must be on Spotify. 00:25:31.914 --> 00:25:32.974 No, you can pick any app. 00:25:33.344 --> 00:25:38.934 We will find you, listen to my podcast, and leave me a comment, and I get it, right? 00:25:38.974 --> 00:25:40.024 And it'll all come to me. 00:25:40.469 --> 00:25:45.699 So I think that's the killer feature that we're all looking towards, and that's not far off by the way. 00:25:45.789 --> 00:25:46.469 So yeah. 00:25:46.659 --> 00:25:50.179 Jennifer-Lee: That was worth the wait, and I'm excited for it. 00:25:50.249 --> 00:25:53.399 Because right now I do feel like we need to work together. 00:25:53.399 --> 00:26:06.584 There's so many different areas, and I do believe you should have your podcast on YouTube, but I also feel like sometimes people think, especially when they don't understand podcasting, they right away, they're like, Oh, YouTube, YouTube, YouTube. 00:26:06.584 --> 00:26:15.949 And so I think it's so hard when we have all these different silos and like I said, the regular person is just like they just see one thing and they're like, oh, well, my podcast only has to be on YouTube. 00:26:16.069 --> 00:26:18.239 And I was like, well, that's not a podcast. 00:26:18.249 --> 00:26:19.829 You need to be on the other platforms. 00:26:19.849 --> 00:26:21.249 But so many people think that. 00:26:21.259 --> 00:26:24.259 And that's fine, because we all have to learn. 00:26:24.259 --> 00:26:25.399 I'm not putting anyone down. 00:26:25.639 --> 00:26:27.909 I didn't know all this stuff until I got into it, right. 00:26:27.979 --> 00:26:32.749 Sam Sethi: So yeah, I think cross app comments is the first of many killer features that we'll bring out. 00:26:32.909 --> 00:26:34.039 Neil McPhedran: Yeah, I think that's great. 00:26:34.059 --> 00:26:37.529 I think right now, comments are such a mess. 00:26:38.059 --> 00:26:40.549 You've got what you can pull out of Spotify. 00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:44.249 You can tweak your question if you want, or you go with the, what is Spotify? 00:26:44.269 --> 00:26:45.639 What did you think about this podcast? 00:26:46.184 --> 00:26:47.524 Comments roll in there. 00:26:47.784 --> 00:26:50.334 Comments roll, back to your point Jen, about YouTube. 00:26:50.744 --> 00:26:55.294 That's actually, you know, built quite into YouTube, the comment feature. 00:26:55.304 --> 00:26:56.984 So you get comments rolling in there. 00:26:57.134 --> 00:27:01.204 You can get reviews off of Apple beyond just the ratings. 00:27:01.214 --> 00:27:02.974 So you've got comments rolling in there. 00:27:02.984 --> 00:27:10.264 And then you've got these, all these other apps, and then you've got, okay, well, I'm going to put stuff out on LinkedIn or Twitter or whatever. 00:27:10.264 --> 00:27:11.514 So it's really tough. 00:27:11.564 --> 00:27:16.144 I actually think, like most podcasters don't pay attention to a lot of that stuff. 00:27:16.524 --> 00:27:28.494 And so someone might put a comment into Podchaser, for example, and just twists in the wind and there's no, like someone who's a listener that's going like, hey, this is what I think, or hey, this is my question. 00:27:28.654 --> 00:27:34.624 And it's just like such an opportunity for a two way conversation, which is really what's difficult about a podcast. 00:27:34.664 --> 00:27:40.974 We've been doing Continuing Studies for coming on a year now, and we're just now starting to see comments roll in. 00:27:40.994 --> 00:27:42.134 It takes time. 00:27:42.144 --> 00:27:45.474 You feel like you're kind of like talking into the air here. 00:27:45.474 --> 00:27:47.344 And then, it's nice to sort of get that back. 00:27:47.374 --> 00:27:48.644 I agree with you, Sam. 00:27:48.644 --> 00:27:59.814 Like it's going to be a killer thing to be able to sort of pull all that together, that you can see a central place for comments and for the conversation and for engagement, essentially. 00:28:00.329 --> 00:28:12.039 Sam Sethi: Comments is just one element, right, but we have this awful metric called downloads, right, which is an awful, awful industry metric because it's a total, I wouldn't say it's a total lie, but it's a lie, right. 00:28:12.069 --> 00:28:15.969 Because a download doesn't equal a listen, a listen doesn't even mean how far. 00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:21.294 So the new metrics that we're focused on are listen time percent completed, right. 00:28:21.304 --> 00:28:25.244 And those two new metrics are much more valuable to a podcaster. 00:28:25.604 --> 00:28:28.104 So how long did you listen to my podcast? 00:28:28.154 --> 00:28:28.624 Oh, great. 00:28:28.654 --> 00:28:29.934 And what percentage did you complete? 00:28:29.964 --> 00:28:32.134 So James has got a three minute podcast, right? 00:28:32.414 --> 00:28:34.144 So if all you did was, how long did you listen? 00:28:34.154 --> 00:28:34.744 Three minutes. 00:28:34.754 --> 00:28:36.614 Well, it doesn't sound like you listened too long. 00:28:36.864 --> 00:28:38.834 Oh, that was hundred percent of the show. 00:28:39.074 --> 00:28:39.964 Oh, great. 00:28:40.234 --> 00:28:41.904 How long did you listen to this podcast? 00:28:41.904 --> 00:28:44.504 I listened to sixty percent of it or eighty percent of it, whatever. 00:28:44.884 --> 00:28:50.364 So time is an interesting metric, but percent completed is also a complementary metric that goes with it. 00:28:50.464 --> 00:28:57.914 Now, by the very nature that these apps all will work together, we can share the listen time metrics between each other. 00:28:57.934 --> 00:29:01.004 We can share the amount of percent completed. 00:29:01.004 --> 00:29:06.744 So suddenly, oh, this user was using Podverse, and that one's using Truefans and that one was using Fountain. 00:29:07.024 --> 00:29:12.514 But me as the podcast creator, I need that aggregated view to be able to go to the advertiser and say, do you know what? 00:29:12.944 --> 00:29:18.874 Nine hundred people listened to my podcast, and they on aggregate listen to seventy percent of my show. 00:29:19.164 --> 00:29:19.754 Bang, bang, bang. 00:29:20.074 --> 00:29:29.064 That is the value of where we're going, not from what we call the Podcasting 1.0 metrics of downloads, which really are useless. 00:29:29.264 --> 00:29:37.794 Jennifer-Lee: I'm so glad you said that because that's the one thing that aggravates me, especially when people are first starting out on their podcast and they're not looking at the time listen, they're just like so focused. 00:29:37.794 --> 00:29:40.074 They're like, oh, well, I only have twenty listeners. 00:29:40.074 --> 00:29:46.579 And I was like, yeah, but those twenty listeners are listening to a hundred percent of every single episode that you release. 00:29:46.589 --> 00:29:50.699 How many people can say they have twenty people that listen to everything they say? 00:29:51.045 --> 00:29:57.915 Because I'm sure everyone will know that, like, if you have kids or a husband or a wife, they don't listen to everything that you say either. 00:29:58.145 --> 00:29:59.775 So I was like, you have a great audience. 00:29:59.775 --> 00:30:03.615 And I think sometimes that gets diminished in podcasting opposed to other mediums. 00:30:03.615 --> 00:30:17.230 Because the audience is stronger and more dedicated, because if they are focused and listening to a hundred percent of your episode and you have a smaller cohort of numbers versus a large, like, say you have millions, but they're only listening to, like, thirty percent. 00:30:17.300 --> 00:30:19.170 That's not really an engaged audience. 00:30:19.260 --> 00:30:19.450 Sam Sethi: No. 00:30:19.910 --> 00:30:27.200 And, you know, advertising, James and I disagree slightly, but advertising, I think, is also, um, the emperor's new clothes. 00:30:27.650 --> 00:30:29.590 We will sell the concept of advertising. 00:30:29.590 --> 00:30:30.650 Yes, come and do it. 00:30:30.650 --> 00:30:34.370 This, this podcast got ten thousand downloads and therefore put your advert in. 00:30:34.370 --> 00:30:39.200 And we know, I did a test in L.A., put your hand up if you skip forward past the ads. 00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:40.260 Every hand goes up, right? 00:30:40.270 --> 00:30:41.930 So we know the audience is skipping. 00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:45.040 So, there is no metric value. 00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:55.465 And even if you could, the metrics that are involved today, going back to advertisers, doesn't tell them did the third ad actually get listened to because there's no listen time metric, right? 00:30:55.835 --> 00:31:04.265 So these new metrics have to be put in place so that actually we can go back and give advertisers better metric reporting. 00:31:04.565 --> 00:31:04.825 Yep. 00:31:05.135 --> 00:31:08.795 This podcast was listened to, and eighty percent of it was listened to. 00:31:08.845 --> 00:31:10.465 And your ad was listened to. 00:31:10.865 --> 00:31:22.235 Now, um, the last part of this, and this is the one that probably might blow a few people's minds is, um, we want to pay you to listen to ads. 00:31:22.475 --> 00:31:24.715 So, so let me try and explain. 00:31:24.715 --> 00:31:32.035 So one of the things we're working on, this is where it's probably still a few years out, is a monetization strategy based around micropayments. 00:31:32.035 --> 00:31:34.085 It doesn't really matter what the micropayment is. 00:31:34.535 --> 00:31:44.465 It's just an ability to give a point zero zero zero one of a dollar rather than giving, um, you know, a five dollar payment. 00:31:44.485 --> 00:31:47.425 And then PayPal and Stripe taking half of it, right. 00:31:47.805 --> 00:31:56.325 So micro payments is a mechanism for, um, fans to pay creators instead of a heart like, or a thumbs up. 00:31:56.565 --> 00:31:58.655 And that's, that's a metric model we've built. 00:31:59.445 --> 00:32:05.015 We've also built a model where you can be playing music within your podcast. 00:32:05.115 --> 00:32:07.375 And it's called wallet switching. 00:32:07.375 --> 00:32:10.985 So the idea is that I'm paying to listen to Jen's podcast. 00:32:10.995 --> 00:32:12.235 She's playing some music. 00:32:12.505 --> 00:32:19.225 The wallet will now, the payments will switch from Jen's wallet straight to the artist's wallet for the three or four minutes that the artist plays. 00:32:19.630 --> 00:32:21.170 And then it automatically switches back. 00:32:21.210 --> 00:32:23.120 The user doesn't need to do anything. 00:32:23.500 --> 00:32:25.350 The technology does it all for you. 00:32:26.100 --> 00:32:33.930 So the final part of that model is now imagine that you can have what we call negative payments. 00:32:34.330 --> 00:32:36.040 Um, they call negative SATs. 00:32:36.370 --> 00:32:38.220 So you have a trailer. 00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:40.220 Remember we talked about discovery. 00:32:40.520 --> 00:32:42.940 I want to put my new podcast out to the world. 00:32:42.940 --> 00:32:43.540 How do I do it? 00:32:43.550 --> 00:32:46.055 Well, I might have a massive marketing budget. 00:32:46.275 --> 00:32:47.895 Well, lucky you, most of us don't. 00:32:48.315 --> 00:33:01.155 But if you don't have a marketing budget, but yeah, maybe have a hundred dollars, you can set that aside as your, your advertising budget and say, if you listen to my trailer, I will pay you some micro payments for listening. 00:33:01.155 --> 00:33:02.575 For your time and attention. 00:33:02.915 --> 00:33:05.145 I value it and I will give you some money. 00:33:05.510 --> 00:33:07.870 Micro money, but it's money nonetheless. 00:33:08.580 --> 00:33:11.780 The user then can choose how long they want to listen to your trailer. 00:33:11.790 --> 00:33:15.399 They may listen to ten percent, fifty percent or a hundred percent. 00:33:15.420 --> 00:33:23.830 But you actually get the chance to get them to become your advocates if they're listening to it and they go, oh, I love that trailer by Neil. 00:33:23.850 --> 00:33:24.120 Great. 00:33:24.120 --> 00:33:25.260 I can't wait for the first show. 00:33:25.270 --> 00:33:25.830 Subscribe. 00:33:25.870 --> 00:33:27.850 I'm ready for it when the next one comes down. 00:33:28.250 --> 00:33:31.280 And then the first episode drops and suddenly you've got an audience, right? 00:33:31.540 --> 00:33:32.870 You're not starting from scratch. 00:33:33.380 --> 00:33:38.000 So that negative or the creator paying the listener is the first step. 00:33:38.210 --> 00:33:44.740 We then built the next part, which is the advertiser now in the middle of your podcast, instead of you skipping it. 00:33:45.270 --> 00:33:49.320 The money now goes from your wallet, where you were paying the creator. 00:33:49.330 --> 00:33:54.110 It now comes from the advertiser to pay you, the listener, for your time and attention. 00:33:54.210 --> 00:33:56.840 So while you listen to the ad, you get paid. 00:33:57.310 --> 00:33:59.930 Now it might be small change, but it's the start. 00:33:59.950 --> 00:34:01.250 So you get paid a little bit of money. 00:34:01.550 --> 00:34:04.030 You then go, oh, no, another Casper matress. 00:34:04.310 --> 00:34:05.370 No, I can't do it. 00:34:05.760 --> 00:34:06.690 Skip forward. 00:34:06.810 --> 00:34:13.020 So what you're doing is going, I'm valuing my time and attention, and you're valuing my time and attention. 00:34:13.050 --> 00:34:19.670 I will stay with this ad as long as I find value, the value in the content, then value in the monetization. 00:34:20.130 --> 00:34:23.900 And at that point, the advertiser gets really good metrics back. 00:34:24.170 --> 00:34:25.780 How long did Jen listen to my ad? 00:34:25.810 --> 00:34:27.250 Well, she skipped at ten. 00:34:27.680 --> 00:34:29.020 How long did Neil listen to the ad? 00:34:29.050 --> 00:34:30.440 He listened to eighty percent. 00:34:30.740 --> 00:34:31.060 Great. 00:34:31.060 --> 00:34:32.650 Sam listened to a hundred percent. 00:34:32.670 --> 00:34:35.040 Well, where am I going to do the follow up email to? 00:34:35.310 --> 00:34:41.680 Not Jen, she's clearly not interested in our advertising, but Neil and Sam seem to be really interested. 00:34:41.710 --> 00:34:47.705 You know, so, again, what we're doing is being able to give rock solid metrics back. 00:34:47.715 --> 00:34:51.205 And you know, that old adage, uh, half my marketing, I don't know where it goes. 00:34:51.455 --> 00:34:57.845 Well, in this model, all of your marketing is measured because you know, the minute you skip, you stop paying. 00:34:58.275 --> 00:35:02.059 And when you stop paying, you're not wasting a single penny of your marketing. 00:35:02.560 --> 00:35:06.340 So this whole metric around, what do we do with advertising? 00:35:06.350 --> 00:35:07.910 How do we know if it's going to work? 00:35:07.910 --> 00:35:08.880 Who's listening to it? 00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:26.500 Well, all the new stuff in Podcasting 2.0 that we're working on, listen time, percent completed, value paid, and switching wallets and reversing payments, all of that sounds mad and mental right now, but I promise you, it's the stuff that we're working on that maybe in a year's time will be super simple. 00:35:26.920 --> 00:35:30.930 And, uh, that's the way we think forward that we can beat the likes of Apple and Spotify. 00:35:31.270 --> 00:35:31.570 Jennifer-Lee: Wow. 00:35:31.570 --> 00:35:32.660 I'm blown away. 00:35:32.670 --> 00:35:33.650 Neil McPhedran: Speaking to the future here. 00:35:33.700 --> 00:35:35.070 Yeah, this is good. 00:35:35.610 --> 00:35:45.479 Before we jump, I did want to focus in on one tag, which is the location tag, and which I think is a really interesting one for higher ed podcasters. 00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:47.590 Could you just quickly explain that one for us? 00:35:47.720 --> 00:35:52.080 Because this is one that we're going to try to get our listeners to start to use a little bit more. 00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:55.210 Sam Sethi: So James actually came up with this tag suggestion originally. 00:35:55.260 --> 00:36:03.295 Um, and James wanted it to be, what I would have actually preferred it to be called the subject, but he called it location. 00:36:03.295 --> 00:36:06.055 So the idea was it was where you were talking about. 00:36:06.055 --> 00:36:15.845 So if you had a podcast that you're recording in Dallas, but the actual subject was the Louvre in Paris then actually the location tag should be the Louvre in Paris. 00:36:15.865 --> 00:36:18.285 It shouldn't be your location in Dallas. 00:36:18.425 --> 00:36:28.145 The problem is that most people didn't understand that nuance and they started to put in their recording location, not their subject location. 00:36:28.645 --> 00:36:39.990 And so we've had a long conversation and there is an extension now to the location tag so that you can put in both your recording location, and also your subject location. 00:36:40.770 --> 00:36:44.430 And I think that's critical because James probably gave you an example. 00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:48.330 If you wanted to find a podcast about train spotting, right? 00:36:48.520 --> 00:36:51.190 And, uh, James likes train spotting. 00:36:51.190 --> 00:36:51.700 He does. 00:36:51.980 --> 00:37:03.875 Um, so if you've wanted to find a podcast about train spotting, you could put that into a search engine using the location tag and up would come podcasts talking about trainspotting. 00:37:04.325 --> 00:37:14.805 But equally, I want to use a location tag to be able to help other podcasters discover people locally near them, and so that they can do meetups. 00:37:14.825 --> 00:37:18.005 Or it just doesn't have to be, you know, fifty people. 00:37:18.005 --> 00:37:19.915 It could be five people meeting in a cafe. 00:37:19.925 --> 00:37:21.325 Hey, should we meet up next week? 00:37:21.335 --> 00:37:22.775 We're all in this location. 00:37:23.285 --> 00:37:28.105 And I think one of the best ways that we will all help each other, going back to what he said earlier, Neil, you know. 00:37:28.525 --> 00:37:30.595 The geeks are going to tell the early adopters. 00:37:30.595 --> 00:37:33.915 The early adopters are going to tell the next generation, next, next, next. 00:37:33.965 --> 00:37:42.065 And those meetups could be where people have got a little bit more knowledge than the people down the road, can help them understand what Podcasting 2.0 is. 00:37:42.605 --> 00:37:49.615 And not from the uber technical thing I was talking about recently, but just add your person tag and which host supports the person. 00:37:49.685 --> 00:37:51.125 Oh, go to Buzzsprout. 00:37:51.215 --> 00:37:52.735 Go to RSS.com. 00:37:53.265 --> 00:37:54.675 Go to, you know, Blubrry. 00:37:54.925 --> 00:37:55.245 Great. 00:37:55.285 --> 00:37:56.675 I can put my, oh, got it. 00:37:56.675 --> 00:37:57.465 Where will it appear? 00:37:57.735 --> 00:37:58.794 Over there, there, there. 00:37:58.795 --> 00:37:59.425 Oh, lovely. 00:37:59.435 --> 00:37:59.735 Thank you. 00:38:00.295 --> 00:38:07.565 I don't need to understand the madness of what Sam said, but I can understand the simplicity of the early parts of Podcasting 2.0. 00:38:07.835 --> 00:38:10.145 At least I'm on the track to understand the latest stuff. 00:38:10.550 --> 00:38:14.930 Jennifer-Lee: So you are the geek, Neil, teaching me, is what I just took from that. 00:38:16.580 --> 00:38:18.550 I'm the early adopter, you're the geek. 00:38:18.560 --> 00:38:19.000 There we go. 00:38:21.470 --> 00:38:22.070 Neil McPhedran: There you go. 00:38:22.120 --> 00:38:23.940 Well, Sam, this has been great. 00:38:23.990 --> 00:38:25.600 Thanks for coming on board. 00:38:25.630 --> 00:38:36.155 If anyone has any further questions, they want to ask you about TrueFans or Podcasting 2.0, or they want to get involved a little bit more, how can they find you? 00:38:36.255 --> 00:38:36.925 Sam Sethi: Super simple. 00:38:36.925 --> 00:38:39.905 Just email me at Sam@TrueFans.fm. 00:38:40.075 --> 00:38:43.295 You can find me on X at Sam Sethi. 00:38:43.325 --> 00:38:45.695 On most social media at Sam Sethi. 00:38:45.695 --> 00:38:46.795 So LinkedIn, wherever. 00:38:46.915 --> 00:38:47.925 Yeah, just reach out. 00:38:47.955 --> 00:38:54.515 I, one of my roles as Podcast Standards Project Evangelist is, is to help people, right. 00:38:54.545 --> 00:38:59.705 And part of it is I'm, I'm going onto The Podcast Academy to put up a series of seminars. 00:38:59.705 --> 00:39:01.455 So that's going to be great. 00:39:02.235 --> 00:39:06.615 At Washington and other events, we will be doing Podcasting 2.0 tracks. 00:39:06.625 --> 00:39:16.785 So the idea is that, you know, we'll start off, we're getting some of the, you know, hosting companies and the apps together, and just get them to talk about what they're doing or how, how they work. 00:39:17.165 --> 00:39:22.785 And then, you know, hopefully over time we will start to educate broader the market and that's the role. 00:39:23.665 --> 00:39:24.205 Neil McPhedran: Well, that's great. 00:39:24.285 --> 00:39:36.925 I'm glad to hear that there's going to be tracks at the upcoming podcast movement, 'cause having gone a number of times, it's conspicuously absent, Podcasting 2.0 is from the previous ones I've been at. 00:39:36.925 --> 00:39:39.815 There'd be like one or two things, but nothing specific about it. 00:39:39.815 --> 00:39:46.375 So I think if there's a content there and specific tracks for it, I think that's going to be super, super helpful for sure. 00:39:46.415 --> 00:39:47.435 But yeah, thanks Sam. 00:39:47.435 --> 00:39:54.445 Thanks for, uh, thanks for joining us today and helping us dig further into the world of Podcasting 2.0. 00:39:54.750 --> 00:39:55.830 Jennifer-Lee: Thank you so much. 00:39:55.830 --> 00:39:57.450 Sam Sethi: Lovely to meet you both. 00:39:58.250 --> 00:40:00.660 Neil McPhedran: I don't know about you, Jen, but I learned a lot from Sam. 00:40:00.830 --> 00:40:01.670 That was great. 00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:06.040 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, I, again, I'm a believer in Podcast 2.0 now. 00:40:06.080 --> 00:40:08.360 I am on the bandwagon. 00:40:09.190 --> 00:40:09.750 Neil McPhedran: I love it. 00:40:10.460 --> 00:40:19.385 I thought it was just great how he, I know he called himself a geek and he was worried he went too geeky with us, but I don't think so. 00:40:19.385 --> 00:40:27.685 I think that really what he did was he opened us up to this bigger opportunity of what's coming and what's possible. 00:40:27.685 --> 00:40:33.405 I think there's so many amazing things that are super relevant for higher education podcasters. 00:40:33.975 --> 00:40:41.870 Like he started talking about choruses, location tag, the, the people tag, so on and so forth. 00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:48.140 There was so much, uh, good stuff in there that right away as a higher education podcaster, I was like, that makes sense. 00:40:48.200 --> 00:40:49.070 We could use that one. 00:40:49.420 --> 00:40:49.780 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah. 00:40:49.810 --> 00:40:58.450 And I mentioned this earlier with him is the fact that I love the course idea because I have clients that bake in the podcast into their case studies. 00:40:58.460 --> 00:41:00.920 So I think there's a lot of potential there as well. 00:41:01.240 --> 00:41:11.780 But like to his point, as soon as everybody gets on and starts using all these features, then we're going to be able to get better and better and grow more, but everybody has to start using it. 00:41:12.080 --> 00:41:13.950 All the platforms have to work together. 00:41:14.205 --> 00:41:15.495 So let's get on it. 00:41:15.495 --> 00:41:17.395 Let's make 2.0 happen. 00:41:17.995 --> 00:41:18.305 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 00:41:18.345 --> 00:41:28.935 I think we need to get all of our audiences, this audience, if you're listening, starting to use some of these 2.0 apps, Try TrueFans. 00:41:29.275 --> 00:41:36.665 We'll add into our show notes, more links to other apps that work really well, but this'll be the start. 00:41:36.665 --> 00:41:51.635 If we can get our audiences starting to use these apps and we start to onboard these tags and we start to use things, then I think we're really gonna start to sort of push things forward and our audiences are going to be starting to look for it. 00:41:52.465 --> 00:42:02.485 Once everyone starts using it, it's just going to make podcasting easier and easier because the other thing that he said, the biggest and hardest barrier for most people is getting their podcasts found. 00:42:02.855 --> 00:42:10.455 So the way that we use all these different tools, the more of us using it, it's going to be a lot easier for future podcasters. 00:42:10.465 --> 00:42:13.355 So that's a wrap on another great episode. 00:42:13.525 --> 00:42:18.715 So thank you for tuning into the Continuing Studies Podcast, a podcast for higher education podcasters. 00:42:19.100 --> 00:42:22.200 We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring. 00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:38.520 If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to our podcast on your preferred platform so you never miss an episode, but if you found this episode particularly valuable, please consider sharing it with your friends and colleagues who might be interested in higher education podcasts. 00:42:38.900 --> 00:42:47.800 We also invite you to join your peers on a higher ed pods where you can connect with your other podcasters in higher education and learn from others in the field. 00:42:47.810 --> 00:42:49.840 Thank you for being part of our community. 00:42:50.120 --> 00:42:56.760 We look forward to continuing to bring you valuable insights and conversations around a higher education podcast. 00:42:56.810 --> 00:42:57.660 See you in the next episode.