GMSB 271 
[00:00:00] Antony Whitaker: Hey, it's Antony Whitaker here and welcome to today's episode of the Grow My Salon Business podcast. Whether this is your first time tuning in or perhaps you are a regular listener, either way, it's great to have you here today. And in case you don't already know, video versions of our podcasts are now also available on our YouTube channel.
[00:00:23] Antony Whitaker: So if you'd like to put faces to the names and head on over to Grow My Salon Business on YouTube and don't forget to like and subscribe to the channel while you're there. So with that said, on with today's episode, I've always said that hairdressing is an amazing craft and that hairdressers are craftsmen or craftswomen, and that many of them also have a creative side to them, which is often what draws them to this industry in the first place.
[00:00:51] Antony Whitaker: But the term artist shouldn't be used to describe every hairdresser that there is. But occasionally you do come across hairdressers Who truly are artists. They show a level of creativity that really separates them from the rest. Now, my guest today is one such person, Angelo Seminara, who is without a doubt an artist in the true sense of the word.
[00:01:15] Antony Whitaker: In fact, I'm going to say that when it comes to hair, he is nothing short of a creative genius. So in today's podcast, we will discuss creativity. We'll talk about art, we'll talk about fashion, we'll talk about beauty, and we'll talk about the salon business and lots more. 
[00:01:31] Antony Whitaker: So without further ado, welcome to the show, Angelo Seminara.
[00:01:36] Angelo Seminara: Hello, Antony, so excited to be on this today. Uh, I mean, I've been following you and, uh, some really beautiful, interesting podcasts. So it's great to be here. 
[00:01:48] Antony Whitaker: Thank you. It's been a long time that I've wanted to get you on here. And, uh, finally today's the day. So, uh, I'm excited about it as well. And I know our listeners, uh, will be very excited to, uh, you know,  hear what you've got to say. Um, I don't know where to start with all this. I, I was sort of doing a bit of research on you again, before, uh, we started just to make sure I had a good flow to the show and, you know, there was one thing that sort of stood out to me and I thought, well, I'm going to ask you about that right at the beginning, because.
[00:02:15] Antony Whitaker: I think it breaks some sort of record. It probably breaks a law as well, actually. And it is this. You started hairdressing when you were 11. Now, I mean, you know what I mean? That is very young. So let's just tell us about that before we get into it. Who starts hairdressing at 11?
[00:02:35] Angelo Seminara: Well, um, I was born in a very, very small town in the south of Italy. Like, you know, that kind of town where everyone knows each other. It's just like a big family, you know what I mean? And my grandmother, who has been incredible for me, it was always an inspiration. Such an amazing person. She really, uh, one day called me up and said, Hey, we need to do something with you here because you're driving my daughter absolutely bananas.
[00:03:02] Angelo Seminara: And I was like, what do you mean? And I said, no, you're driving her crazy because, you know, you're Just going playing football, you come back like with scars, you know, I was one of these boys that I used to do a lot of sports, so I was always into trouble with something broken or something, you know. And uh, she said, you need to really, uh, think of doing something on the side and maybe like perhaps during the summer, you know, like go work experience.
[00:03:28] Angelo Seminara: And she went, why don't you try barbershop because. When it rains, you're under the roof. You're gonna always look smart. Perfect, you know? And I said, alright, I'll try that. So, I end up going into this little barbershop in my town. Really nice people, great boss, very kind. It was an inspiration for me too, because he was a very, very sort of like, uh, very polished, very smart, well educated person.
[00:03:58] Angelo Seminara: And, uh, so I was very lucky from there. I got to really start to love the interaction, you know, with people and then to like, really feel that I'm part of something important. And that was this kind of metamorphosis that we, we create between ourselves and the customers. I've seen a bit. This transformation that happens in, happens in the mirror, you know, and you can see their face changing at the end of the service, you know?
[00:04:25] Angelo Seminara: And I, I really liked that. I think that's what the beginning was for me. You know, it was a really, really interesting relationship with people.
[00:04:36] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Were you still at school at the same time?
[00:04:40] Angelo Seminara: Yes. So I would go into school in the morning and In the afternoon. Yeah, in the afternoon. Uh, we normally need, we have a siesta, you know, we have lunch like in Spain, so you have that break and then you start four o'clock can until late four hours. So I used to go there, sweep the floor, you know, clean up all the cupboards, change the blades on the racers.
[00:04:59] Angelo Seminara: You know, I used to cut myself a lot all the time because I was, you know, not experienced and, uh, at the age of 13, if you want to know this story, because it's quite funny, not funny, interesting. Um,
[00:05:15] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, definitely.
[00:05:15] Angelo Seminara: guy walks into the sauna and, uh, he goes like, he called my boss and he said, Hey Pasquale, do you have, my, my boss was called Pasquale.
[00:05:24] Angelo Seminara: And he went, Hey Pasquale, do you have someone? They could possibly come to my father's house to shave him and to cut the hair. So Pasquale looked around because we're lots of like kids, you know, like, uh, 15, 16 people that, you know, off school, you know, like, and he's like, can you really, uh, do you want to go?
[00:05:44] Angelo Seminara: And I said, yeah, I'll go. Okay. Off you go. So I went to the house and this guy told me, can you be really, really quiet because my dad is sleeping. And I was like, Okay. No problem. I said, so he walked in, he walks me into this, uh, in this room. I saw this massive tall bed I saw this guy lying right in the middle of the bed with the face up with the snow hat on with the little ball, pom pom, green and yellow.
[00:06:15] Angelo Seminara: And, um, he was like, I was like, so he's this guy. And I, he went, yeah, he's him. He's my dad, but don't wake him up cause he's sleeping. And I was like, okay. Okay. He was dead.
[00:06:30] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. I knew you were going
[00:06:31] Angelo Seminara: only realized, I climbed the bed and, uh, I think that really, it's one of those situations where, you know, or you make it or you break into your career is welcome to the world of what we do, you know, so I could have just dropped everything and run away, you know, I could have frozen and not be able to do anything, or I could have just done it.
[00:06:55] Angelo Seminara: You know, it's three options. There's no other option. So I went for it, it was not funny when his teeth fall down, to be honest, because he had four teeth and they fall, and I was like, oh my god, not funny. Then, when I cut him with the blade, there was no blood. I was like, wow, but he was really, really cold, you know, I felt like he didn't have anything, poor guy.
[00:07:23] Angelo Seminara: And at the end, I just, uh, did it, you know, I went home. My mom is like, why are you not eating? And I was like, no, I'm fine. I'm not hungry. I'm not that hungry. She was, come on, eat some food. You know, it was Sunday, because we worked on a Sunday, just half a day in the morning. And just to remember that I didn't eat for two weeks, because I was still like, all confused, you know, about it
[00:07:47] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, yeah, of course.
[00:07:50] Angelo Seminara: It was a, it was a, I think a good experience, a good experience can be a
[00:07:55] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's I've certainly not had anyone tell me that sort of story before. I just knew you were going to say that when you started telling the story. I thought, oh my God, he's dead, you know, okay. All right. Well, Let's fast forward from that.
[00:08:12] Antony Whitaker: This was, that was in Italy where you started, where you grew up, and then at some point you moved to London. I'm not sure when it was that you moved to London. I had Trevor, uh, Trevor Sorbie on the podcast about a year ago now, and he was telling me about you and how, I'm not sure if we recorded this part of the conversation actually, but he was telling me.
[00:08:33] Antony Whitaker: gets a phone call from this guy. Uh, and it was you, uh, with, with, uh, you know, I'm not so sure how good your English was at the time, but basically you said you, you wanted to work for it. And, uh, and Trevor was laughing when he was telling me the story. I'm not doing justice to it at all, but you know, his response to you was never mind, well, you know, you want to work for me, I'm more concerned about how you got my phone number in the first place.
[00:09:00] Antony Whitaker: But what I wanted to ask you was what was it about Trevor, because I know you've been working in, in Rome, I think for Toni and Guy and stuff. So you obviously, you know, progressed a bit from where you grew up. So what was it about Trevor's. genius, I suppose, that attracted you to, to work with them.
[00:09:23] Angelo Seminara: working from 11 until 15 in, in a barbershop in the south of Italy, in Calabria, where I was born. Then, uh, moving at the age of 15 and a half, nearly 16, to Rome, where I started working in a toni and guy academy, where I did some training. Uh, for three years, I did, you know, all the training. Um, I always felt really confused about teachers, especially Italian teachers, because I think Italian people without generalizing, they're very, uh, much more into a feeling, you know, into that passion, into that freestyle, more than so disciplined, like probably, perhaps it could be someone from the UK or from, you know, other places from Japan.
[00:10:12] Angelo Seminara: Where people are a bit more methodic. They learn a technique and then they're able to repeat it, you know, and all of that. So I just felt like, you know, I needed to, uh, move on. So I, I went to London. I decided to go to London, so I did some trade tests in Vidal Sassoon. Uh, I remember the time, it was Charlie Worthingtonon and Nikki Clark.
[00:10:30] Angelo Seminara: I just, I wanted to taste everybody a little bit to whatever was up there in those days. That was, you know, a really good name and good reputation really, because I, I just wanted to learn and, and, and, and grow from there, you know? But I always had this set mind on Trevor Sorbie because I felt like his work, it was always a little bit, you know, it was a step further to everybody else, in my opinion anyway.
[00:10:54] Angelo Seminara: And, um, so I, I said, how do I get there now? Because when I was in Rome, I was already, uh, photographing collections, you know, for an Italian brand. And I worked with this American photographer called Mark Havriliak and Mark Havriliak was Trevor's photographer. Which was like a coincidence, you know, and I said, Mark, would you give me Trevor's number?
[00:11:21] Angelo Seminara: Because I really want to call him and Mark said, Angelo, why would you work with Trevor? You're brilliant, you don't need Trevor. And I was like, no, no, no, that's European. I need Trevor. I said, I think I want him to become my mentor. And so that's how he would, you know, I called, I called and the first time was the Trevor's wife there at the time.
[00:11:42] Angelo Seminara: And she said, I'm sorry, but Trevor is not here. Who are you? And I was like, I'm Angelo Seminara, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she went, Ah, but you know, perhaps maybe you can call next week and, uh, I will try and arrange a meeting with you and Trevor if you want. So she was super kind, you know, and super nice.
[00:12:00] Angelo Seminara: And I said, okay, that's amazing. So then I really called him, I, I, you know, and Trevor was like, Hey, Angelo, yeah, I kind of know your work, he knew my work already because I was already being published in those years in Italy, in Rome, in Estetica magazine, lots of different magazines, Zephyr, The Times, Studio, you know, all this kind of, uh, Yeah.
[00:12:22] Angelo Seminara: Yeah. Um, uh, magazines from the, you know, trade. And, um, so he said, come, but I won't promise you anything. You know, it's not that you're going to get the job. You have to do what everyone else is doing. And I said, yeah, don't worry. I'll do it. So I went to London and have a, I had a book with me that I made handmade with some pictures and stuff.
[00:12:45] Angelo Seminara: I showed the manager. And then the time there was like Antoinette Benders there, Sally Brooks, Eugene Souliemon. I mean, just name it all the top, uh, hairdressers, young hairdressers, they were working there. And I said, Oh, this is going to be tough, but you know, I'll try, I'll try and go and see how it works. So I went to the supermarket because I, I didn't have a lot of money because I was eating like sandwiches and chili peppers, you know, uh, all day long and some, you know, drinks because it was kind of, you know, a decision that I had to make to leave my country and stuff.
[00:13:20] Angelo Seminara: So I started from like, from scratch. And, uh, in this supermarket, I saw that they were folding the, some, some, uh, hams, pieces of ham, vegetables into cling film. Like wrapping cling film. And I said, Oh, that would be great for the head to do some hairstyles. And then I'm going to wrap them with cling film, like in the supermarket.
[00:13:43] Angelo Seminara: So that was my test at the beginning and the manager and Sally Brooks, then. They looked at each other and they laughed and they said, this guy is not normal in the head, in his head or something. What is he presenting? So I did some hair wraps like French pleats or chignon or whatever. And then I just wrapped them around with some cling film, which he made it look very kind of futuristic.
[00:14:04] Angelo Seminara: And they, they, they were like, yeah, we like that. So let's speak to Trevor next. Then I went and met Trevor and I asked Trevor. What is your philosophy, Trevor? And he said to me, I remember we were in the pineapple studio. That's where I met him the first time in Covent Garden. And they said, uh, just make women look beautiful, Angelo.
[00:14:25] Angelo Seminara: That's my philosophy. And that thing stuck in my head from day one at the age of 23. And I kind of agreed with him, you know, what we do, you know, we have to make them look beautiful. And,
[00:14:37] Antony Whitaker: Well,
[00:14:37] Angelo Seminara: that's it.
[00:14:39] Antony Whitaker: You know, you said something before, um, about the Italian way of hairdressing that it's more feeling. And I totally agree with that, but it's feeling about making women look beautiful. And that was something I was going to ask you about later on anyway. So let's jump there right now and ask you that.
[00:15:01] Antony Whitaker: Cause I'm always, I'm always intrigued by Like the French do it as well. French and Italian, they, they, you know, they might be taught how to cut hair just the same as everybody else and color hair just the same as everybody else. But, you know, for you, for example, we're going to talk about your work and the sort of work you do in a minute, but no matter what you do, no matter how sort of out there it is, you still manage to make them always look beautiful.
[00:15:30] Antony Whitaker: It's like the foundation that everything is built on. Would that be a fair way of saying that for you? That like, you know, it's the, the benchmark is, it's got to be beautiful. But then after that, anything goes, so to speak. Yeah.
[00:15:43] Angelo Seminara: Yeah. I kind of always struggled, uh, in learning. And, uh, it's always been very tough for me because I'm kind of, I have to be self-taught, you know, with things I need to kind of work out myself. So maybe some hairdressers don't know this about me, but I have to work so much harder than all the other people, you know, that they, they do, they understand things quick.
[00:16:06] Angelo Seminara: Uh, I don't know why, but I, I need to work it out myself because if you teach me something, I can start to see a lot of other ways of doing it that you're not telling me. And that, from day one, I said, no, no, no, I can't do that. I need to work it out myself. So if you show me how to do a one length haircut, and you tell me to keep the scissors this way, or invert them, to create the really perfection, I just think that, you know, then I start thinking about a lot of other things.
[00:16:35] Angelo Seminara: But I'm like, but the hair gets a trauma. You know, the hair will flick if you angle a little bit, you know, you know, I have all these thoughts in my head coming up all the time. And, um, so going back to what you're saying, I think, yes, the Italian women, they have taught me a lot when I was working in the salon and in the academy.
[00:16:56] Angelo Seminara: To the point they were quite aggressive sometimes, so you will have a brush in your hands and like. Oh, give me that brush like that.
[00:17:04] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. I've, I've
[00:17:05] Angelo Seminara: I was like, well,
[00:17:05] Antony Whitaker: that. Yeah.
[00:17:07] Angelo Seminara: like, let me show you how to do it. A little boy, you know, like, and they would take the brush. They would make that hinge like lots of volume and beautiful.
[00:17:16] Angelo Seminara: This is how you do it. Okay. Next time. I'm like, yes, no problem. I'll do it. So I've asked from the actual style of a woman, what they like, you know what I mean? It's not about cutting at one length or doing a scissors on a comb, you know, like that was the most important thing is ability, you know, and balance.
[00:17:35] Angelo Seminara: So there's something about proportions, uh, graduations of color, choice of color, combination of color. structure and shape that is always difficult for some people to combine, you know, but if you, if you have a experience, you know, and if you, if you work with the right mentor or with the right people, like Vidal Sassoon, Trevor Sorbie, to name just a few, there's so many amazing hair artists in the world, then you learn that quick, I think.
[00:18:04] Angelo Seminara: And that's what people need from the beginning. I think especially young students, it's the combination of all those elements. It's like cooking, right? If you put less salt, then you put some vinegar in there to make it more acidic, or you fry a little bit longer, you boil a little bit less, you know, you make it harder, soft.
[00:18:23] Angelo Seminara: It's the same. It's like, it's almost like chemistry, isn't it? Right. Yeah.
[00:18:27] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, that's a great analogy. Um,
[00:18:30] Angelo Seminara: I don't know if I have, yeah,
[00:18:32] Antony Whitaker: no, I was just going to ask you about, you know, uh, the importance of having a mentor. You know, you've mentioned the word mentor several times. We've talked about Trevor a little bit and how he was one of your mentors. Uh, how important is that not just for you, but for anybody in developing their career to find somebody that becomes their mentor, someone that influences them and that they, you know, follow in their, in their steps to whatever degree.
[00:19:00] Angelo Seminara: well, uh, one of the things that, uh, I've learned from Trevor is not, not to copy other people always, but I already kind of always had that in my head. And I think that to a point is kind of wrong, actually, because I think anyone that is young and starting something, a career in any, any areas, uh, is very important to actually copy, copy, copy, copy, you know?
[00:19:26] Angelo Seminara: But at the end of the copy, you have to find yourself too and develop yourself, you know, and I think that's important, right? Because it's like, it's a learning curve, you know, I think that's, uh, that's, that's really important. But to have a mentor, uh, I think is definitely the key you know, it's, it's so important to have someone is guiding you, you know, and it will just make sure that, you know, uh, you go in the right direction.
[00:19:56] Angelo Seminara: But to find a mentor is not easy because how, how, how I'm going to find a mentor. So you can only find a mentor to reading, researching, watching stuff around, uh, you know, surfing online and stuff. When you find someone that actually captures your, your attention, you know, uh, makes you feel good about watching something or, you know, Makes you feel good about the estate of that person and about all of these, then you know who your mentor could be.
[00:20:28] Angelo Seminara: And that's when you go and ask, you know, or you write to this person, you know, for example, I have lots of, uh, really young hairdressers. They call me, for example, from Mexico or from like Italy, from France. And they're all my dream is to work with you. Of course I can't do it to everyone because otherwise it will be like, you Uh, too many people, but sometimes when I feel like someone is the right, you know, that really needs that, then I can feel that they have something I try and help people, you know, like, uh, obviously I don't, I don't work in the salon, you know, every day.
[00:21:01] Angelo Seminara: So it's very hard to have everybody. I will have everybody like Trevor had me, you know, I think it's, it's very rare. You find people that they're really, really, really talented. Like, you know, I think maybe in a hundred, you find one, you know,
[00:21:19] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. And, you know, the differences as well now compared to 20 years ago, 30 years ago, whenever it was, when you were, when you first arrived in London, the difference now is with technology. I mean, in an ideal situation, you want to have a mentor that you can work with, that you have a relationship with, that can, you know, advise you, help you, show you how to do stuff.
[00:21:42] Antony Whitaker: But even if you don't have that sort of relationship, you can still have a mentor online, someone who, you know, someone whose work you admire, that you follow everything they do, that you look at their Instagram, you look at every photograph they post, you look at their videos, you attend their classes online, you know, whatever.
[00:22:00] Antony Whitaker: So you can still do that culture. You know, it's still, um, it's, it's better than being sort of lost. It's good to have someone who can help you. Who you follow, who you admire as, as your mentor. And you were very lucky to have, you know, some great mentors in your life. Right from your first barbershop guy to, you know, Trevor Sorbie and then other people.
[00:22:21] Angelo Seminara: A mentor in life is not necessarily about what you do and it's not just about hairdressing. It could be also that you have more than one mentor.
[00:22:32] Angelo Seminara: For example, One of, I can call him my mentor of inspiration is David Attenborough, another one is Leonardo da Vinci. So when you start, uh, cause you know, I think the world is not just made out of materialistic stuff, it's made also of like, spirituality, it's made out of a lot of other things, that I think someone needs to absorb, and that's when you become, I think, really good at something.
[00:22:58] Angelo Seminara: It's not just like looking straight like that. You need to look a bit more wider than that. And I, you know, me loving nature. So the Attenborough, you know, loving art and science and all this stuff, you know, Leonardo da Vinci and finding someone like Trevor that is made, you know, may help me a lot in my career, you know, because I see things in a different way, you know, I think that's all I want to say.
[00:23:22] Angelo Seminara: Yeah.
[00:23:23] Antony Whitaker: you know, and that's a really good example, actually, because obviously you work with Trevor, you never work with Leonardo da Vinci, but he can still be a mentor in some other way, you know, I don't know if you've met David Attenborough or ever, you know, worked with him, but they can still mentor you just by their, by their presence and their example of what they've achieved in their life.
[00:23:47] Antony Whitaker: So yeah, it's a, it's a good point. Um, I just want to ask you about your work and it's really difficult to pigeonhole your work because on one hand, I know that you don't have a salon at the moment and we'll talk about that later, but you know, you're, you're a hairdresser who can work in a salon. Um, you're a hairdresser who, who can do editorial work for fashion shows, fashion magazines, but then you're also this hairdresser that produces.
[00:24:18] Antony Whitaker: Pure art. And there's very, very few hairdressers that do that. And you know, you've got a lot of awards for this. The, the work that you do and the creativity that you produce is just off the scale. And it's like what you said before Trevor said to you, don't copy. Always be original. And there's very few people that Ena that are, that are ever actually able to do that.
[00:24:39] Antony Whitaker: But when you look at your. You know, your catalog of work that you've done, all the awards that you've won, British Hairdressing Awards and AIPP and all this sort of stuff. There's so much originality there. 
[00:24:53] Antony Whitaker: You have a incredible ability to be off the wall in your creativity. You do stuff that you've never seen before. Very, very few people do that. Are able to do that, but you will year after year bring out photographs, bring out collections Of stunning work and people just sit there and look at it and go.
[00:25:15] Antony Whitaker: Oh my god How do you describe that work? What what category do you put it in? Do you call it avant garde? Do you call it fantasy? Like what do you call it? Because I don't think any word gives it justice So i'm just curious about how you define it.
[00:25:34] Angelo Seminara: I think it's much, uh, deeper than that. I think it's something that gets, you get affected as a child. And it's something that maybe you are missing and you're replacing, you know, sometimes. For me, what we do, uh, and especially artists in every area, is, uh, There's a lot of psychology involved. And, uh, for example, the fact of, you know, you know, who is Paganini, Paganini, the musician Paganini was famous.
[00:26:00] Angelo Seminara: He would never repeat, you know, he would just do one song and that's it, he would never do it again. So for me, I like to believe in that too. Uh, but not because I also get bored, you know, with something that really, really quick and reflecting. Back in my past, when I was a child, I used to like to paint, for example, but I have never kept one paint.
[00:26:25] Angelo Seminara: I will do a paint and then I will give it to someone as a gift. That was my, in fact, I never had a paint. So, and I, I used to love to paint. I used to have to paint every day, pictures and frames and things, and I will give away to someone as a present. And I think with my work, if you could describe it more like, you know, imagine you have this kind of a bird.
[00:26:49] Angelo Seminara: Yeah, he's flying around collecting little bits, you know, like some stuff and start to create this nest, right? I always try and describe in this way. It's quite a beautiful way also that you know You build this nest and that's your your base, you know, then you have obviously your eggs that you're gonna And these eggs, they are your ideas, you know, but it doesn't mean that they are ready.
[00:27:14] Angelo Seminara: The ideas, the ideas, they're always kind of fermenting, you know, and they need time. You can't, sometimes you have an idea, but it's not the right time to do it. You have to wait maybe a year or two. Cause it's not, it's just an idea or a thought, you know, an initial thought. Initial thought and an idea or a final idea is very different.
[00:27:34] Antony Whitaker: mm
[00:27:34] Angelo Seminara: So lots of people, they have initial thoughts and they just go for it and they throw it in there. I would never do that because for me, it's not completed and I can feel it and I can understand that aesthetics doesn't work like that. For me, it needs to be absolutely completed where you are happy. And also I think it's important to leave something that is not finished.
[00:27:56] Angelo Seminara: I think for the human brain, it's very, very important to see when, for example, even a building or a room or an area that is a little bit unfinished. Or a bit broken. There needs to be more work done that gives the human being the hope that there's space for growth. So it's very pleasant thing, you know?
[00:28:19] Angelo Seminara: So the looks that I do sometimes, I don't know if you notice, there is always something unfinished, which I like to do the thing. Otherwise, there was a time where I was making it too perfect. And I think when you make something too perfect, It can become very, very heavy, very ugly too sometimes, you know, it's not beautiful, I don't
[00:28:38] Antony Whitaker: mm
[00:28:39] Angelo Seminara: So, ideas, they come from everywhere, of course. And by collecting all these things, there will be a time where you, you know, your eggs, they're gonna, you know, just turn into, like, Birds, they're going to fly away. And that's when the time is. So it's about timing, you know, and it's about editing and storing.
[00:29:01] Angelo Seminara: So you have to store your ideas. You always carry a little booklet with me or voice recorder or pictures. You know, I've got millions of pictures that I photograph stuff that I don't even remember to be honest, sometimes I need an external memory to remember all this. And I think it's important that, uh, you have one thing.
[00:29:22] Angelo Seminara: For what we do. And that is called curiosity. If you don't have a curiosity, you're not that person that you are describing at the moment, you know, because everything comes out of curiosity, I think, because if you're not curious means that you don't want to learn you that you're not interested, right? So.
[00:29:43] Angelo Seminara: I'm always curious about everything could be food, architecture, fashion, cars, you know, like nature, everything I need to know, I need to learn. And I think it's about that too. So
[00:29:56] Antony Whitaker: so that's,
[00:29:56] Angelo Seminara: it's not just about my job. If it was just hairdressing, I would have dropped it so long ago. I love cooking. I love doing everything.
[00:30:06] Angelo Seminara: I even plant trees sometimes, you know, I do stuff that, you know, maybe a lot of hairdressers don't do. They just stick to that every day, you know, and For me, hairdressing is not just about hair. It's about more than that, you know?
[00:30:20] Antony Whitaker: So, I know you don't have a salon at the moment, and, uh, you may have one again in the future, but you, in this time period at the moment, you don't have a salon. I just want to ask you about that side of being a hairdresser. Do you enjoy that side of it? Do you enjoy being a stylist in the salon with, you know, seven, eight, nine clients booked in for the day?
[00:30:44] Antony Whitaker: Is that a part of the industry that you still enjoy doing? Yeah.
[00:30:50] Angelo Seminara: I, I did. I don't know if today I still See, the salon, I feel, I feel that it's not enough for me. You know, I don't know how to explain this. Because you have to always do the ordinary there, you know, like the everyday color, everyday haircut. You can't go too far, you know, sometimes. Even though I try some of my clients, I go there, but you know, I think what I like about the salon is the team to be with the team and to just have fun.
[00:31:21] Angelo Seminara: Because you're like almost in an orchestra, you know, making music. If you are in the salon with your heart, you know, in the, that day, uh, if you ask me, would you be in the salon every day, uh, 300, 200 days a year or something, I would probably say no, um, because I, I just. I feel like I want to do photography, you know, videos and, um, editorial.
[00:31:46] Angelo Seminara: You know, I like, I like to do other things, you know, education. I just like to, to. To vary my work, my day, you know, but I did work in the summer for many years too, where I was fully booked for like maybe15 years solid,
[00:32:01] Antony Whitaker: Yeah,
[00:32:01] Angelo Seminara: boom, boom, boom, you know, just like lines after another, you know,
[00:32:04] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, exactly. What about the editorial work side of things? Do you, do you find time to still do editorial work and, uh, you know, the shows?
[00:32:15] Angelo Seminara: yes, I do. Yeah. I love doing editorial work. Yeah. Um, I also like to work with, uh, product companies in designing new products. My aim in the future is to do, uh, some really, really interesting products, you know, that they're like. They're a bit different to what we have now on the market. Uh, I know it's hard, but, uh, I actually love working with chemists too, you know, because testing, you know, and finding ingredients and creating fragrances and packaging and marketing.
[00:32:50] Angelo Seminara: I love that part too. I find it so incredibly creative and, uh,
[00:32:54] Antony Whitaker: Yeah,
[00:32:55] Angelo Seminara: I'm growing in that area a lot the last few years. I worked with brands where I've helped them a lot to grow and stuff. And that's my, my aim. Now I'm working with a new brand, uh, Italian brand came on and I'm, I'm just, uh, I'm just loving it.
[00:33:09] Angelo Seminara: You know, it's, it's great because, uh, there's a lot of other things to do. There's not what you do every day, you know, but then if Nick Knight comes and says, Oh, let's do Vogue shoot or whatever, then I, I get excited and I go and do it that too.
[00:33:23] Antony Whitaker: Yeah.
[00:33:24] Angelo Seminara: the fashion shows, I'm doing less, uh, and less fashion shows.
[00:33:28] Angelo Seminara: I like to do fashion shows when they're like super creative, you know, and, and we can do something more conceptual, you know,
[00:33:36] Antony Whitaker: Mm
[00:33:37] Angelo Seminara: to do a fashion show, just to like go and comb some hair, you know, just like that. Um, I find a little bit, uh, frustrating sometimes because I can see possibility of even improving it, but of course it's fashion and fashion, You work with the team, you know, and the team together, collectively, we decide what is the final look, you know, and I think that's, uh, also another art form that is completely different, you know,
[00:34:03] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. It is, and it is still an art form, but you are, you are more, uh, of, of an individual. Are you, as opposed to someone who can collaborate on an idea. You are more, I've got this idea myself and I need to turn it into reality. Is that, would that be fair to say?
[00:34:22] Angelo Seminara: Yeah, I mean, I, I think I know lots of incredible hairdressers, to be honest, that they're like so inspiring, you know, like people like Eugene Sullivan or like, you know, there is like, So, so many, uh, talented, I, I know you can count them, you know, maybe in two hands, it's not like, you
[00:34:40] Antony Whitaker: Yeah.
[00:34:40] Angelo Seminara: that comes up with new stuff, they're very innovative, uh, and, um, but I think the younger generations, like when I'm talking about 20, I think they're going to be incredible, you know, you know, because they have also now this kind of a new supplement. It's almost like a, you know, completely new era is coming and it's AI.
[00:35:05] Antony Whitaker: um,
[00:35:05] Angelo Seminara: I think AI, a lot of people think is a bad thing, but I think it's a great thing because AI got inspired by us, by people like Vidal, you know, like by the past, Aldo Coppola, and all these people, because that's what the content is, is, uh, is.
[00:35:22] Angelo Seminara: Whatever is in being created is kind of mixed together and you have AI and it has all the solutions for you. But I think that is going to re inspire us back, you know, to do even better what we have done. So it's almost like, Hey, you did this 50 years ago or yesterday. Now AI is taking that, is making it like this.
[00:35:43] Angelo Seminara: What do you think? You're like, Oh, well, I can't do that. All right. That's a challenge. Let's try and do that because I think that's great. I don't, I don't see, you know, obviously I don't like when AI takes advantage of things and if he becomes in a way violent, you know, like in the way that, uh, he can, he can, uh, put people underneath, you know, under risk, you know, that stuff.
[00:36:06] Angelo Seminara: I don't, I don't know if I like it, but. You know, I think it's easy to control these days. So it's a great inspiration to
[00:36:14] Antony Whitaker: Let me ask you a few things about, um, I'm curious about how you will answer this question. How do you define beauty?
[00:36:23] Angelo Seminara: yeah, I think beauty, it has a monitor. And this monitor is monitoring all the elements, okay? And, and there is kind of a feat, you know, that has to work. And that is based on individually, the experience of an individual, how you perceive aesthetics, how you perceive nature, how you perceive sound, how you perceive visual stuff, you know, and I think everyone has an opinion.
[00:37:01] Angelo Seminara: Of course, you can't describe beauty that way. You know, something might be beautiful for you, might not be beautiful for me. Uh, but at the same time, you know, uh, in the majority of the cases for me, beauty is, uh, it's not perfection either. You know, for me, beauty doesn't have to be necessarily something perfect, you know, while a lot of people think that that is beautiful.
[00:37:24] Angelo Seminara: For me, beauty, beauty is something that gives you and triggers something inside of you that makes you excited, that makes you give butterflies in the stomach. You know, that, that's for me, that's beauty.
[00:37:39] Antony Whitaker: about suitability? Very similar word in a, in a salon context. You know, like you look at a client and they want something and you look at them and you go, do you know what? That's not going to suit you or the opposite. You go, this would really suit you. You know, I think a lot of people. struggle with understanding what is the right thing to put on somebody.
[00:38:03] Antony Whitaker: Um, you know, we touched on a few things before when you were talking about the Italian ladies would show you and teach you how, how to, you know, how to do technically how to do stuff, but also inspiring you about how a woman feels and what beauty is and maybe what suitability is and maybe what taste is.
[00:38:22] Antony Whitaker: I'm just, you know, you've got such a good mind for all this stuff. I'm just curious about, how you would define that word suitability with a client.
[00:38:31] Angelo Seminara: Well, suitability is something that already exists or something that needs to be created. First of all, it doesn't just, otherwise it's nothing. So for example, let's talk about our crafts in the salon. How do I make something suitable for someone? You see, the first thing that I do, uh, I have seen hairdressers.
[00:38:52] Angelo Seminara: Okay. Bringing a new client from the assistant is bringing a new client on the chair. The hairdresser hasn't seen that client walking,
[00:39:02] Antony Whitaker: Mm.
[00:39:03] Angelo Seminara: but the client was on the chair and the hairdresser goes to the assistant. Thank you. The assistant goes and he stays with the client. He's never seen this client standing and they start doing a consultation, and I'm like, how can you do that?
[00:39:18] Angelo Seminara: I can never do that. So what that means, for example, I need to see someone moving. I need to see someone talking. I need to see the proportion of their body, the shoulders, the neck, you know, the, the, the jaws, you know, the forehead, the eyes, the distance of the eyes, the sides of the lips. So for me, it's all about proportion and suitability.
[00:39:41] Angelo Seminara: It's about proportion. You know what I mean? But obviously you cannot add attributes to suitability. You can make someone look a bit more gothic or more like evil or more like beautiful or more sweet or more angelic, but then it's things, the elements that you bring, for example, all right. So maybe you want to make a bit higher or a bit lower, you know, a bit longer or a bit shorter.
[00:40:04] Angelo Seminara: I think for me suitability is, is, is about proportions, you know, and about, uh, not just proportion within the face. Also it needs to suit, uh, the personality too. Sometimes that's why I'm talking about creating sometimes a current, you know, I've had clients that, you know, they went to me, do what you want.
[00:40:27] Angelo Seminara: And I was like, okay. I did what I wanted, and at the end they were shocked. They're like, what have you done to me?
[00:40:40] Antony Whitaker: I wanted.
[00:40:40] Angelo Seminara: Sorry. Yeah, I did what, what you asked me to do, but I also had clients that they're like crying at the end and hug me and they're like, oh my God, you changed my life. You know?
[00:40:52] Antony Whitaker: yeah, yeah,
[00:40:53] Angelo Seminara: or I had clients like, Hey, this is a big cheque.
[00:40:56] Angelo Seminara: Go on holiday in Ireland and, and go and drink Guinness all month. You know? Here you go, because you changed my life. You know? Depends, I think.
[00:41:05] Antony Whitaker: There's, there's an ex,
[00:41:07] Angelo Seminara: is the key.
[00:41:08] Antony Whitaker: yes, there's an
[00:41:10] Angelo Seminara: Suitability is the key.
[00:41:13] Antony Whitaker: definitely. There's an expression that I, I sometimes use, you may be familiar with it. And it is that, that sometimes people look, but they don't see. And. You just gave a great example of that. Uh, you want to see a client standing up. You want to see them moving.
[00:41:33] Antony Whitaker: And it's not like in the salon, you go now, stand up and sashay down there and do a little spin and come back. But you, you are looking at people all the time. Your computer is processing all this information, whereas other people might be looking at the same thing, but they don't see. And that's such an important thing to get through to people, isn't it?
[00:41:56] Antony Whitaker: That, you know, when they talk about consultations and suitability and all that sort of stuff, you know, you mentioned the word before about curiosity. It's like an understanding the personality. There's so many little ingredients that go into, you know, To making this work. And, uh, yeah, I just love your whole, you know, thought process about that.
[00:42:16] Antony Whitaker: I'm very selfish when it comes to hairdressing. What that means. Let me explain my, when I wake up in the morning, and let's say when I used to work in Trevor's Garden, in Floral Street. So I would wake up, I would have my espresso, so the espresso would kick in in my head straight away, wakes me up, and from that moment until I get to the door of the salon, I wasn't thinking anything else rather than what am I going to do today to someone's hair?
[00:42:48] Angelo Seminara: But not to make them happy, to make me happy. That was very selfish. And I
[00:42:53] Antony Whitaker: yeah. It is. Yeah, yeah,
[00:42:54] Angelo Seminara: like that. But that is what made me, you know, learn. Because I was like today I want to try a square layer. With a bit of a round graduation and maybe some texture and I'm going to use three, four products and then I want to color The ends that they look a little bit iridescent or something and why is that because I've never done that before and that is what I mean And I always tell my students or the people I said, look, guys, if you can learn one thing a day, only one,
[00:43:27] Antony Whitaker: Mm
[00:43:28] Angelo Seminara: guess how many things you learn in a year?
[00:43:30] Angelo Seminara: 360,
[00:43:32] Antony Whitaker: mm
[00:43:33] Angelo Seminara: that's a lot. Some people, they work in the salon without saying anything bad about anyone, because we all need to make a living, you know, and it's, I know it's an art form, but it's also a job and people makes, uh, their living, you know. But at the same time. Some people, they only do five, six hairstyles.
[00:43:55] Angelo Seminara: That's it. And they keep doing that because that's what their clients wants at the end. In that area, in that village, that's the trend, but forever until like they're like, you know, for me, it's not about, it's about stepping out of your comfort zone, stepping out of the box, you know, try and do something different, maybe risking to lose the clients too, because you know what, like some clients, they might not like what you do, but if you don't take the risk, you know, how can you gain other clients because if you take the risk.
[00:44:24] Angelo Seminara: And you do something amazing, that client will be noticed and she will bring you more clients for you because they're like, Oh, where did you do that? I've never seen that. Oh, I want that. You know, I said
[00:44:37] Antony Whitaker: Does, does fashion inspire you?
[00:44:40] Angelo Seminara: very much inspires me a lot from day one when I start to get into fashion. We used to, uh, do at least 50 shows a year, 50 fashion shows a year. I was working a lot with Eugene Soulieman uh, on, on his team. Uh, as I was growing up in hairdressing and I've done for many, many years. And, uh, it was so inspiring fashion because I, uh, Through the fashion designer's eyes, you know, and vision, uh, you can actually bring that into hair also.
[00:45:12] Angelo Seminara: It's not just, uh, about fashion. It's about, uh, aesthetics. Again, it's about feelings, about design, you know? And I think fashion designers are like, incredible. I think they're like, you know, essential, I would say. Otherwise, we always have the same thing.
[00:45:31] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, yeah. Is there any particular designer that inspires you?
[00:45:36] Angelo Seminara: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there is so many, like from, I like Margiela, you know, I like, uh, uh, Yamamoto, Yohji Yamamoto, Issey Miyake, absolutely. I love it because they have developed techniques and, uh, And, uh, and ways of transforming the fabrics, you know, they make them like Missoni, you know, like, I mean, I've worked for probably all the designers that there is out there from Louis Vuitton to Victoria Hope to like, uh, you know, just name is Chanel, everybody.
[00:46:07] Angelo Seminara: And, uh, it's been such inspiration for me because, you know, they look at things in a different angle completely. And also it's so exciting to work on the shows, to go and do the fashion shows. Uh, not so exciting when you have to wake up at three in the morning, but to go in the cold time is a six. That's less exciting,
[00:46:28] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, exactly.
[00:46:29] Angelo Seminara: but it's fun though.
[00:46:30] Angelo Seminara: Okay. Um, let me just ask you about your role with, uh, product companies, because I know you were very strongly associated with, uh, Davines for, for years, uh, and then more recently Goldwell, and now, Kemon. Uh, what I wanted to ask you about is when you work as a sort of a global ambassador for each of those brands and each of those brands are quite different.
[00:46:54] Antony Whitaker: What Um, I'm curious about the influence that they have on you, not just the influence that you have on them, but like, for example, Davines is very much about nature and, you know, environment and all that sort of stuff. That's sort of in their DNA. And I know that you're like that too. And I'm just curious to find out what came first.
[00:47:19] Antony Whitaker: Were you already like that? Or was it your relationship with Davines that made you become more aware of nature and environmental things?
[00:47:29] Angelo Seminara: Well, I have to say that they are not really about nature. I want to be very clear on this. I think they're a sustainable company. Because they think about sustainability, they, you know, about pollution, and all of this. I think that's what they really think, you know, and they're doing it always. And they care about the environment, you know.
[00:47:49] Angelo Seminara: Uh, I mean, I don't know. I can think of other brands that they are super natural, you know, completely natural when I talk about the product in itself, you know, but as you know, it's very difficult to create products that are a hundred percent natural because kind of, I don't know if the formulas works, you know, there is something about it.
[00:48:09] Angelo Seminara: You need to have all the. You need to have a chemist involved, you know, unfortunately, to create great results in terms of holding the hair, shine, all this stuff, you know, nature gives you, I don't know, a good percentage of like, uh, uh, goodness that you can create with, with a product. But I don't know if, You can do everything with just nature.
[00:48:34] Angelo Seminara: You know what I mean? So I've worked with, like you said, many brands, including Loreal, Wella, and all kind of different brands. And I think in general, the product world is phenomenal. Now, what we can do worldwide, you know, I mean, there's so many great companies, but, uh, I just feel like, you know, a lot of people, they're just copying each other, you know what I mean?
[00:49:00] Angelo Seminara: And, and, and some people, they have, uh, patented formulas that they can't share. Of course, they keep it to themselves because they're patented. And I, if I had, you know, the possibility, I would like to have everything patented. They think they have invented for the products, for the right reason, for the environment, too, if it's possible, when it's possible.
[00:49:20] Angelo Seminara: It's not always possible, I don't think. To get a great result without, you know, mixing the two, you know, it's like, it's nature and science for me. And this is what I like about Kemon, the brand I'm working now is about nature and science. And that's something really interesting. In fact, it's their logo.
[00:49:41] Angelo Seminara: You know, you can see, you know,
[00:49:44] Antony Whitaker: yeah, I was looking at it beforehand before we got on this call. Um, listen, we need to wrap up in a minute, but I want to ask you a couple of things. One of them is about awards. You, you have got like more awards than you can point a stick at. You know, you have a lot of awards for years. Uh, how important are awards to you?
[00:50:09] Angelo Seminara: um, that's a good question, actually, because I don't go, to win an awards. I've never done that. mean, I, I don't, I don't participate awards. Sometimes you get nominated or let's say my, my office, you know, my people, they just say, Oh, why don't you send this collection to this IPP or whatever, you know, or they ask me, Angela, do you send your PP for me?
[00:50:34] Angelo Seminara: It's like, uh, I've won, uh, yes, many awards. And I think I've been lucky, maybe. Don't you think?
[00:50:43] Antony Whitaker: I don't think it's luck mate. I mean, I've, I've, I've looked at your work over the years and, uh, I, you know, I'd call
[00:50:50] Angelo Seminara: think there's so many hedges.
[00:50:51] Antony Whitaker: lucky isn't one of them. Um,
[00:50:55] Angelo Seminara: there's a lot of hairdressers that should win awards and they don't. And I feel sad
[00:50:59] Antony Whitaker: Yes, that's true too. That,
[00:51:00] Angelo Seminara: think, no problem. Let me tell you what I really believe for the awards. I believe that, mean this, I think there's so many people that they should win and they don't.
[00:51:10] Angelo Seminara: And the reason why is because the lack of judgment. I think personally, if you have too many judges in the competition, the risk, it's impossible to have all good judges, you know what I mean? I mean, so for me, it's about really, it should be about the creme de la creme of judges. They don't have nothing, uh, to do with the nominees, you know, or not, no jealousy, no envy, not
[00:51:38] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, yeah,
[00:51:39] Angelo Seminara: If you have a panel of judges, they, you don't do. don't really know how to judge, you know, and it happens. I've seen it in the past. So I think I've been lucky. You know, I think I'm lucky to win.
[00:51:52] Antony Whitaker: We've been very lucky, a lot, 
[00:51:56] Angelo Seminara: I'm lucky.
[00:51:57] Antony Whitaker: Okay. Um,
[00:51:58] Angelo Seminara: think I'm, I don't think I'm that good. If I thought that I was good, that would probably stop hairdressing and I move on.
[00:52:05] Angelo Seminara: I don't want to, I want to, I want to learn more, you know, I'm always,
[00:52:08] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. I mean, I, I love, I've really enjoyed our conversation and, uh, I enjoy your thought process because I, I think that when you're a young hairdresser, you're always looking at someone's hands to, to learn what they do, what they do is different and better than you. But as you get older, you realize that so much of.
[00:52:29] Antony Whitaker: What is making that person special is what's going on in here. It's how they think and understanding how people think is, I think, where the real magic is, you know, you use that word, curiosity, it's how it's, you're curious about, you think about these things, you know, uh, and that's, that's incredibly important.
[00:52:49] Antony Whitaker: I want to, before we wrap up, there's a couple of things I just want to mention. Uh, one of them was, I was on your website today and I was looking, uh, you know, at all the stuff on there and I was looking at a video that you've done. And it just relates to what I just said, actually, that your video on there, it's called Hair Every wear 3.0
[00:53:06] Antony Whitaker: And, um, I, I loved it and, and because you're talking over the background in the video and you say some wonderful things like there's some really, you know, again, what I'm just talking about is you're talking about beauty, you're talking about how you think you're talking about art, you're talking about inspiration.
[00:53:27] Antony Whitaker: And so I would really recommend everyone listening this to, to, to go and check that out. Um, and yeah, just one last thing I want to ask you is, is. If you weren't a hairdresser, what would you do? Because I know, you know, you have all these other things going on. So if hairdressing was not something you were going to do anymore, what, what, what direction would you be pulled in?
[00:53:50] Angelo Seminara: I would be part time, uh, uh, architect and, and the other half, I would be a chef. Cooking. Cooking
[00:53:58] Antony Whitaker: Okay. So still very, very creative. Yeah.
[00:54:01] Angelo Seminara: my, I think my cooking is better than the hairdressing I do. Much
[00:54:06] Antony Whitaker: Wow. Okay. Well, I'm
[00:54:08] Angelo Seminara: knows. I, I could open my own program of cooking, but what? I love cooking because, maybe because I'm Italian, you know. Also, what I like to do, you have seen, I, I work in a lot of museums around the world. I don't know if you've seen that work that I do
[00:54:23] Antony Whitaker: Yes. I saw all that. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:54:25] Angelo Seminara: I've worked in museums like Frida Kahlo in Mexico.
[00:54:28] Angelo Seminara: I've created all the half of Frida Kahlo Museum. Some people don't know that because I don't expose much that. And I worked for the Biennale of Architecture and Art in Venice. Different, uh, installations. And I think for me, that's, that's one of my favorite things I'm doing at the moment. I'm preparing now two new exhibitions.
[00:54:49] Angelo Seminara: One for China, one for Japan next year. This is really what excites me because I can work with my team. I have a very young team and they they love doing it more than me actually. And it's great to see that we, we work as a team, you know, and we just love it. It's fun.
[00:55:06] Antony Whitaker: yeah, yeah. No, look, I only knew all that stuff because I was doing research before our podcast today and I spend a fair bit of time digging around on your website and just, you know, looking at different stuff that you've done. And so it really opened up my eyes as just how many things you do, because you don't, you don't talk about it much.
[00:55:25] Antony Whitaker: You're quite humble about all this stuff. And that's, uh, you know, that's what makes you who you are. Um, let me ask you, where can people connect with you? Uh, where can they find out more about you on Instagram or other social media channels?
[00:55:40] Angelo Seminara: Angelo Seminaro hair artist that I use that, you know, as a, my platform. Then I've got different ones for different, you know, I've, I've created something that is called Solage, it's a new way of coloring hair that we're going to relaunch now in March. Then I've created something that is called the imprinter that allows you to print on hair.
[00:56:01] Angelo Seminara: And that is something that I'm going to relaunch also very soon. And we call that the color of the future, because it's something that I'm doing that is incredible with the colors. And that is going to be connected to a law of education that we want to start creating. In fact, the moment we're also recruiting, uh, in the brand where I'm working with Kemon.
[00:56:22] Angelo Seminara: Uh, Kemon is actually one of my first brands, uh, that I worked when I was a kid, you know, like, uh, it's my very, they put me on the stage first. Yeah. And I, I, I'm asking them, well, can I look at some video when I was a kid? You know, because apparently, I didn't talk on this thing. I was just doing hair and I would get stunned in the major, you know, it was funny.
[00:56:43] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah
[00:56:44] Angelo Seminara: that was
[00:56:45] Antony Whitaker: on you, okay. Well listen, I will put that link On the website and in the show notes for today's podcast so people can check all that stuff out So if you're listening to this podcast with Angelo Seminara and have enjoyed it Do me a favor and share it with other people who you know would also enjoy it benefit from listening to it.
[00:57:07] Antony Whitaker: And don't forget to subscribe and leave us a rating and review on the Apple podcast app. So before we go, uh, Angelo, I just want to thank you for, you know, sharing so openly and honestly and putting the time aside, um, you know, to inspire everyone who's been listening. I've certainly got a lot from it and I know that they would have too.
[00:57:25] Antony Whitaker: So thank you for being on this week's episode of the Grow My Salon Business 
[00:57:28] Angelo Seminara: Podcast
[00:57:28] Angelo Seminara: Thank you very much.
[00:57:30] Antony Whitaker: Cheers. Thanks.