1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,760 Welcome to the We Are More podcast. 2 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,600 My name is Alyssa. 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:16,600 And my name is Bri. 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,600 We are two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,520 We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach His 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:26,520 word. 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,720 And apparently that's controversial. 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,360 Get comfy. 9 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:33,360 Hello. 10 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:34,360 Hello everyone. 11 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,360 Welcome to episode three. 12 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,360 Episode three. 13 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:40,360 Huzzah! 14 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:53,720 I don't- do we have a title yet? 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:54,720 Of We Are More? 16 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,520 No, I mean of the episode. 17 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,520 Oh, how about- 18 00:00:58,520 --> 00:00:59,520 Shut it. 19 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:00,520 Uh, nope. 20 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:01,520 Nope. 21 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,960 The first thing that came to my head was what that guy said. 22 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:06,960 Shut it. 23 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:07,960 Hey, you know what? 24 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:08,960 Maybe. 25 00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:09,960 Maybe that's the title. 26 00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:10,960 That is the title. 27 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:19,600 The episode today is called Shut It and Listen. 28 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,120 You guys will be hearing this a little bit after Easter. 29 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:28,920 However, in real time, it's so many weeks before, I don't even know. 30 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:29,920 I know. 31 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:30,920 We're working way ahead. 32 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:31,920 Good for us. 33 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,920 Yeah, we're very proactive for now. 34 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,800 Just like the skincare is. 35 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:43,320 So anyway, in real time, our podcast, the very first episode just went up, what, three 36 00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:44,320 days ago? 37 00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:45,320 Yeah, it was on Thursday. 38 00:01:45,320 --> 00:01:46,320 Today's Saturday. 39 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:47,320 Yeah. 40 00:01:47,320 --> 00:01:51,400 And we had about almost 50 so far. 41 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:52,720 I'm really happy. 42 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:53,720 Yeah. 43 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,120 So that means like unique downloads. 44 00:01:55,120 --> 00:02:00,840 So they only count one play per device. 45 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,160 So that means that 50 different people wanted to listen to us. 46 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:05,600 How many people are on a football team? 47 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:06,600 Did we decide? 48 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:07,600 I don't know. 49 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,560 We guys, we, we know nothing about football. 50 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:12,560 It's 50. 51 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:13,560 Um, it's a bunch. 52 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:14,560 It's a lot. 53 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,280 50 is what did we decide? 54 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:19,560 A hundred ears. 55 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:20,560 Yeah, we did. 56 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,720 A hundred ears if people heard of it. 57 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,520 And that's just so cool. 58 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:27,520 Yeah. 59 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:28,680 It's really cool. 60 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:33,640 And I know we didn't talk about a lot of in-depth stuff on our first episode, but we did get 61 00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:36,080 to tell our stories. 62 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,520 You got to know us a little bit more. 63 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:38,520 Yeah. 64 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:39,520 You're welcome. 65 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:40,520 I mean, we're a treasure. 66 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:41,520 We really are. 67 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:42,520 Fantastic. 68 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:43,520 You're welcome, everybody. 69 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,520 So we're really excited about that. 70 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,400 In, I don't know, housekeeping type news, I guess. 71 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,240 So we're working a couple things out. 72 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,200 We have bought new microphones. 73 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,160 They are cute. 74 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,120 They have rainbow lights on them. 75 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,120 I know. 76 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:01,120 It makes me feel like we're at a rave. 77 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:02,120 They're a little intimidating. 78 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:03,120 I know. 79 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:04,120 Very like, very professional. 80 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,120 I know. 81 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:12,280 Nathan had to watch some videos today to help us get it set up because I didn't know what 82 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:13,280 I was doing. 83 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:20,160 So I feel like these are perfect for ASMR because the whole time I've been like, stop it. 84 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:21,160 It picks up everything. 85 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:22,160 It does. 86 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,600 I'm scared what you're going to hear. 87 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:29,640 So if you hear us breathing really heavy or drinking our coffee at some point, just don't 88 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:30,640 worry about it. 89 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:31,640 It's fine. 90 00:03:31,640 --> 00:03:37,520 So one of the other cool things that we noticed was that the day after we posted our podcast 91 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,160 was International Women's Day. 92 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,760 Happy Women Day. 93 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,080 For them, it's like way in the past at this point. 94 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,000 So we just thought that was really cool. 95 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:52,800 And we've just noticed that everything seems to really be falling into place as we live 96 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:58,520 into what we really believe God is asking us to do. 97 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:04,200 Everything from when we posted and the responses that we've gotten to designing the logo. 98 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,640 Getting the intro and outro music. 99 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,080 Finding beautiful pink and blue headphones. 100 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,080 We look really good. 101 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:13,080 We do. 102 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,080 We look coordinated and professional. 103 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:17,080 Yeah. 104 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,080 As we sit here in Bree's room. 105 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,080 Actually, we switched headphones today. 106 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:22,080 We did. 107 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,080 Now for you guys, it's right after Easter. 108 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,080 Happy Easter. 109 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,080 So we thought it would be fun to talk a little bit about what we do on Easter. 110 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,080 Ham. 111 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:34,080 We do. 112 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:35,080 We do ham. 113 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:36,080 We ham it up. 114 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,080 I do not like ham. 115 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:39,880 Not a fan. 116 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,800 So when I was a kid, because we've always done ham on Easter. 117 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:44,800 Most people like ham. 118 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:45,800 Everybody does ham. 119 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,840 Okay, well, it's sweet and I don't understand that. 120 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:54,640 So every single Easter, I would not get any ham, right? 121 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,120 Like I would eat the sides or whatever. 122 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:02,840 And my grandpa would come up to me and he'd be like, Lissa, where's your ham? 123 00:05:02,840 --> 00:05:04,840 Because where's the ham? 124 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:06,840 Grandpa loved ham. 125 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:07,840 Okay. 126 00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:08,840 I mean, he loved food, but like he loved ham. 127 00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:11,840 And I was like, grandpa, I don't like ham. 128 00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:13,840 Every single Easter. 129 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:14,840 What? 130 00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:15,840 No, you just got to try it. 131 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:16,840 You got to try it. 132 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:19,840 I said, grandpa, I try every Easter. 133 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:22,840 But obviously not because it wasn't on your plate. 134 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:23,840 So quit lying. 135 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:24,840 I did. 136 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:27,840 But he made, he would always make me take a bite because it's delicious. 137 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:28,840 It's not. 138 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:29,840 It's weird. 139 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:30,840 It's pink and it's sweet. 140 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:32,840 And meat should not be pink or sweet. 141 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:33,840 Ham is from pigs. 142 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:34,840 Pigs are pink. 143 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:35,840 Pigs are sweet. 144 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:38,840 I don't know how to respond to that. 145 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:41,840 I don't want you to question it ever again. 146 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:45,840 So apparently I have to eat ham this Easter. 147 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:47,840 And every Easter forever more. 148 00:05:47,840 --> 00:05:53,840 So we always go over, well, I would say this is a newer tradition in our family. 149 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:58,840 Our extended family gets together at every possible opportunity. 150 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:00,840 And I know you guys are out there listening. 151 00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:02,840 They're out there listening and. 152 00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:04,840 And now we're talking about them. 153 00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:08,840 You're in the podcast. 154 00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:14,840 So we always go over to one of my cousin's houses and have the most absurd amount of 155 00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:15,840 food. 156 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:16,840 Like it is insane. 157 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:18,840 The amount of food that we have. 158 00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:19,840 Anybody can come over practically. 159 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:20,840 You're all welcome. 160 00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:22,840 We'll feed them all. 161 00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:25,840 Then we do this really cool Easter egg hunt. 162 00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:31,840 My aunt and cousins all set it up and there's like a horde of children at this point. 163 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:34,840 And they all go out in the backyard and hunt for these Easter eggs. 164 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:38,840 They like they're the plastic ones and they fill them with stuff and like little toys 165 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:40,840 and candy and whatever. 166 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:42,840 And it's so cute. 167 00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:45,840 Like no one did that for me as a child. 168 00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:48,840 Mom, we hit real eggs. 169 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:50,840 I don't want to eat real eggs. 170 00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:51,840 I want chocolate. 171 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:52,840 Do you want to eat plastic eggs? 172 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:54,840 No, I want to eat the chocolate inside the eggs. 173 00:06:54,840 --> 00:06:57,840 You're going to make mom so mad. 174 00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:00,840 She's going to be like, we had an Easter egg hunt every year. 175 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:02,840 Sorry mom. 176 00:07:02,840 --> 00:07:05,840 She's like, you have the worst memory, Alyssa. 177 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:06,840 She does. 178 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:07,840 She tells me that all the time. 179 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:08,840 Because you do. 180 00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:09,840 I know. 181 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,840 That's why I have a whole three pages worth of notes for this podcast. 182 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:19,840 You might have a book. 183 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,840 So today we're going to go into a couple different things. 184 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:27,840 We are going to talk about the phrase help meet, which Rina really hates. 185 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,840 Help am. 186 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:37,840 And kind of where that comes from, the Hebrew words for it, things like that. 187 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,840 And then we are going to talk about being anti-cultural. 188 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,840 So before we bounce into kind of the meat of the meat. 189 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,840 We should just exclusively call it ham. 190 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,840 Into the ham for this episode. 191 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,840 Before we do that, we wanted to define a couple of terms for you guys. 192 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:04,840 Partly because they're important in this space. 193 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,840 And partly because I don't think that people really have heard them. 194 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:10,840 Unless they're really researching this. 195 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,840 And because it's like, we're learning all this stuff alongside you. 196 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,840 Here's a couple of terms that we've learned along the way. 197 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:18,840 Exactly. 198 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,840 So those two terms are complementarianism. 199 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:24,840 Dun dun. 200 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,840 And egalitarianism. 201 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,840 Sorry, we can hear my son singing in the other room right now. 202 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:34,840 A B C. 203 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,840 Nom nom nom B. 204 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,840 So Brie is going to talk about egalitarianism. 205 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,840 So she's going to read a definition for you about that. 206 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:49,840 Basically, egalitarianism is also known as biblical equality. 207 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,840 Basically, egalitarianism is equality. 208 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:58,840 So the doctrine that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities. 209 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,840 And I think that's a term... 210 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,840 You do hear that occasionally out in the real world. 211 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,840 But it's a pretty religious term. 212 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:08,840 You hear that in religion a lot. 213 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:10,840 Yeah. 214 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:16,840 And then complementarianism is kind of the flip side of that. 215 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,840 It's not exactly the opposite of it. 216 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,840 Do you guys hear the train? 217 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,840 We live in a town that gets cut across by a train. 218 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,840 Anyway, so complementarianism, I'm just going to read a definition for you, 219 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:34,840 holds that God has created men and women equal in their essential dignity and human personhood, 220 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:40,840 but different and complementary in function with male headship in the home and in the church. 221 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,840 And then she goes into... this is on theopedia.com. 222 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,840 So kind of like an encyclopedia but for the electrical stuff. 223 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,840 So she kind of goes into what it's characterized by. 224 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:58,840 And she says, it's a generally patriarchal view of the family with the father responsible to lead, 225 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,840 provide for, teach his children to know and love God. 226 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,840 The belief that a Christian husband should love his wife as Christ loved the church. 227 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:10,840 The belief that a Christian wife should submit to her husband as the church submits to Christ. 228 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,840 And then it kind of goes on. 229 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:18,840 Oh, and also the belief that only men should be appointed to authoritative positions of leadership in the church. 230 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,840 I think also something important to note that I learned in the book, 231 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:28,840 the making of biblical womanhood by Beth Alzenbar, which is the best of the books and everybody should go get it. 232 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,840 She talks about how there's a little bit of pushback during like a certain time. 233 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,840 And the Christians kind of rebranded the term patriarchy into complementarianism. 234 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:43,840 So it sounds a little bit nicer, a little bit better, but essentially it is patriarchy. 235 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,840 Absolutely. And you'll hear like there's different levels of both of these. 236 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:54,840 You know, there's extreme complementarianism and then there's middle of the road complementarianism. 237 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,840 And there's the same thing for egalitarianism. 238 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,840 So if you're researching into this space, you're going to come across those terms. 239 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,840 So we just kind of wanted to define them as best we could, I guess. 240 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:10,840 So that kind of launches us into the ham, the ham of it. 241 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:22,840 And we're going to talk about another term, another term that is commonly currently known as helper or help meet. 242 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,840 And that pops up first. 243 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:30,840 It actually pops up a lot in the Bible, but it pops up first in Genesis when God creates Eve 244 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:37,840 and essentially says that he has created what current translations call a helper for him. 245 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:43,840 Now in Hebrew, that is the word helper is right. 246 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,840 And I'm going to butcher pronunciation, guys. 247 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,840 Again, I don't know. OK. 248 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,840 This is not what I was educated in language. 249 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,840 We tried to look it up and I think this is the proper pronunciation. 250 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,840 So says YouTube. So says YouTube. 251 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:04,840 And it could be wrong, as YouTube often is. 252 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:17,840 But it's as a connecto. And so that has been translated as I, depending on your translation of the Bible, as either helper or help meet in current English. 253 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:22,840 I literally like in my mind, it does not compute because it's not meat like ham. 254 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,840 No, it's meat like nice to meet you like M E E T. Yeah. 255 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:33,840 It doesn't make sense in my head. Help me. Help me meet you. 256 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,840 I think that's what they're referencing. 257 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:42,840 I think there is a reason that meat got added at some point, but we'll have to kind of look that up. 258 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,840 And I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It's weird. 259 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:55,840 It is. It's a strange phrasing. But when you look deeper into it, biblical scholars say that it means so much more. 260 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:01,840 It's really difficult word to translate because it's it's not just. 261 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:14,840 There's no perfect translation. So as you dive deeper into the word, we find that it starts to mean rescue to mean save to mean strong. 262 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:23,840 And I think we touched on this a little bit in one of the previous episodes, but we were both at this church service where Pastor Scott shout out. 263 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,840 He's he's a good guy that I know of. 264 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:32,840 He was defining this in one of his sermons and he's like, it doesn't just mean help. 265 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:38,840 And then he dropped to his knees and he says, it means, I tried to whisper a scream for you. 266 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,840 You're welcome. But he legitimately screamed. He screamed like he goes. 267 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:48,840 It's a term that a soldier that's in battle that's like he needs to be rescued. 268 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,840 He screams like he's dying. 269 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:56,840 And then another fighter soldier comes in and rescues that person. 270 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:03,840 So when you are at your like on your deathbed, yeah, your worst. 271 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,840 That's what you're asking for. Like you're asking for someone to save your life. 272 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:13,840 But that's the term that was used for Eve when God created Eve. 273 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:19,840 And we've simplified that essentially into just a helper. 274 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:29,840 And so one of the really interesting things as you dive into this phrase is that it's used 21 times throughout the Old Testament. 275 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:35,840 A few of those are used for when Israel is asking for help from other military. 276 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,840 It's used 21 different times. 277 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:43,840 And the times that it's not used for Israel looking for military help, 278 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:50,840 it's used to describe God jumping in and helping and saving Israel. 279 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:58,840 Literally, God, the creator of the universe, uses this phrase to describe himself. 280 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,840 So the same phrase that's describing women is describing God. Right. 281 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,840 There's we're not drive that point home. 282 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:14,840 And I think we've like you look at how simplified we have made that when we talk about women. 283 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,840 And it's honestly, sincerely, it's blasphemous. 284 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:23,840 It's offensive. It is. It's offensive to to God. Yep. 285 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:30,840 It's offensive to women because I think once again, it's fitting someone else's agenda. Right. 286 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:39,840 If we want to keep women down, we're going to translate this into just simplified helper, like most simplified that we could possibly make it. 287 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:44,840 Right. Well, and I mean, imagine saying that of God. 288 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:50,840 Imagine if we took the word helper or help me and stuck it in when we're talking about God. 289 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,840 God, our rescuer, our maker, our everything. Yeah. 290 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,840 He can just help me out. But really, I've got this. I've got this. Right. 291 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,840 No, no, smite. 292 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:10,840 And so that's that has shaped Christian womanhood. 293 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:16,840 Mm hmm. That one word, the one word. 294 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,840 And I can't remember if we talked about this in the past or not. 295 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:31,840 So in order to really believe in male hierarchy, whether in marriage or church or society, you really have to believe that it was God's perfect plan. 296 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,840 Yeah. So it happened before the fall. Right. Right. 297 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:43,840 And the only way to make that work is if this phrase right here as our connecto, I forget that you guys can't see me. 298 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:54,840 I'm pointing at a piece of paper is if that really just means helper, assistant, subordinate, complimentary. 299 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,840 Yep. That's the only way it works. 300 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:04,840 The whole argument dies if that doesn't work. 301 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:09,840 So that's why we're kind of driving that home early on in hopefully a long podcast. 302 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:17,840 Maybe it's two hours, three hours. I got all night. Do you know I got into eight. 303 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:23,840 What time is it now? Seven forty four. You get an hour of my time. 304 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:29,840 Plus, it's daylight savings time today. 305 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:39,840 But I think what's funny is like, let's say, let's say that you do believe that female submission is a result of the fall. 306 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,840 It's part of women's punishment. And God does say that. 307 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:48,840 He says that your births are going to suck. Yeah. Your desire will be for your husband. 308 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:56,840 But the interesting thing is, if it is part of the punishment, if it's part of the fall, which we're not arguing, it is absolutely part of the fall. 309 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:02,840 Why are we holding on to it so hard? Let it go. Just like Elsa said. 310 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,840 Because I can't copyright. Probably Disney will go after us. 311 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:15,840 And if we get banned from Disney, we're. I'm stopping this podcast. 312 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:23,840 Yeah. If if you really believe that that's not God's perfect plan for you, why continue it? 313 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:30,840 Right. If it's if it's something that God didn't want in his perfect world in the first place. 314 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:38,840 Why why are we fighting for it? And you don't see anybody fighting for other parts of the fall. 315 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:47,840 You don't see anybody bursting into the labor and delivery room and saying, Christian woman, you can't have an epidural because this is your punishment. 316 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,840 This is your punishment. Can you imagine? 317 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,840 No, I think people like the entire population would just drop. 318 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:04,840 Well, let me tell you, someone who's given birth, let me tell you someone who's seen birth. 319 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:14,840 So essentially. Back to what as her means, it means more. 320 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:20,840 More more. Would you might perhaps might you say we are more? 321 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:31,840 Perhaps I might. And this is super controversial because we're just talking about our interest. 322 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,840 And apparently that's controversial. Get comfy. 323 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:45,840 And it if it means warrior, if it means the way that God treats his people, I think I'm being pretty loud, though. 324 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:51,840 Just turn it so it's like this. Yeah, if you're going to look at me and talk, I look at you and talk. 325 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,840 You're beautiful. Look into my eyes. 326 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,840 No, thank you. Cut that part out. I don't want to hear myself sing. 327 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:03,840 You've sang three times. 328 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,840 Well, excuse me. 329 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:08,840 And I'm not cutting them all out. 330 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:15,840 I'll edit it. Stop screaming, Johnson. 331 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:29,840 So then another, I guess, piece of evidence for the fact that as or did not mean simply helper is that you can find as or used in male names in the Bible. 332 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:35,840 See those genealogy sections that you just skip over because because you can't pronounce them. 333 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,840 You can't even read them. There's like Eliezer. 334 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,840 I don't again. I don't know how to say these. There's Abiezer. 335 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,840 Nebuchadnezzar. Yeah. 336 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,840 Ebukanezer. That's not the Bible. 337 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:50,840 That's Ebenezer. 338 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,840 Oh yeah, you said it wrong again. That's the second time. 339 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,840 I think that's the fifth time. 340 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,840 Ebukanezer. 341 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:09,840 So when obviously when like Jewish parents were naming their sons with these names like Jewish names are meant to mean something. 342 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:10,840 Right. 343 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,840 And they would never have put an insult in their child's name. 344 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:19,840 Right. That'd be like naming your kid worthless. 345 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:24,840 They wouldn't have said, this is my son helper. 346 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,840 They wouldn't have said that because that would have been a mockery. 347 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,840 It would have been insulting. 348 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:36,840 Right. Unlike names of today, which mean like absolutely nothing. 349 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,840 My name means a flower. 350 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,840 My name is Irish, but I don't know what it means. 351 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,840 Mine literally comes from a flower. 352 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:45,840 You're a beautiful flower. 353 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:52,840 So one of the other things that as I was researching all this, I've got pages and pages of notes on this. 354 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,840 Pages of pages of poorly written notes. I'll tell you that much. 355 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,840 Hey, I just can't follow a straight line. It's fine. 356 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,840 I'm concerned for you. 357 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:15,840 So one of the things that I took a note of is one of the questions that was asked was, you know, when Adam was created in the garden, God gave him dominion over the animals and land and etc. 358 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,840 However, there wasn't a ton to do at the time. 359 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:25,840 Oh, because like you don't have a job. Your job is to luxuriate in the garden of Eden. Come on. 360 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,840 Yeah, he wasn't hunting his food. He wasn't cooking his food. Like all was well. 361 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:44,840 So if God had created Eve to be keeper of the home, to be bearer of the children, to be simply a helper, at this point, she would have been a burden to Adam. 362 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:52,840 She wouldn't have been helpful. She wouldn't have been complimentary. She would have been complimentary. 363 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:58,840 If she was simply dependent upon him, she would have been a pain. 364 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,840 Why would God have done that to Adam? 365 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,840 You want to talk about daughters of Eve being clingy. 366 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,840 Really, like Eve would have been really annoying. 367 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,840 She would have had no role because Adam wasn't doing a whole lot at this point either. 368 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,840 She was also luxuriating and eating various fruits. 369 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,840 Sounds great, frankly. 370 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:20,840 And vegetables. 371 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,840 All we know of are trees. 372 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,840 Or our vegetables are a result of the fall. 373 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:26,840 Yeah, that's probably it. 374 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,840 Why can't I speak? 375 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:38,840 Okay, so a quote that I was reading that I think is really, I don't know, poignant? I think poignant is the word I want. 376 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:39,840 That's a nice word. 377 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,840 Thank you. It's by Victor Hamilton. He is a theologian, theologian? 378 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:45,840 Theologian. 379 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,840 Theologian and a professor at Asbury University. He's also Canadian. 380 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,840 Don't you ever cuss at me again. 381 00:23:52,840 --> 00:24:02,840 And one of the things that he says is connegdo, so the second part of this word, suggests that what God creates for Adam will correspond to him. 382 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,840 Thus, the new creation will be neither a superior nor an inferior, but an equal. 383 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:15,840 The creation of this helper will form one half of a polarity and will be to man as the south pole is to the north pole. 384 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,840 No greater than, no less than. 385 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,840 Well, because both are created in the image of God. 386 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:30,840 God wouldn't be like, part of me is less than. All of them is great. 387 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:37,840 And really, I feel like we can almost mic drop here and just never film another podcast. 388 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:44,840 Because it is, it is that simple. And while there's so much more to talk about, this is a really rich topic and we love talking about the women of the Bible. 389 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:45,840 Rich. 390 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:56,840 And we love talking about, you know, Paul's stance on women and Jesus's stance on women. We'll get into that as time goes on, but you could almost stop here. 391 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,840 That's how impactful this part is. 392 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:05,840 Right. Right in the beginning, he references it and he establishes it right away. 393 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,840 As soon as Eve is created. 394 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:09,840 You're just together. 395 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,840 You're just together. 396 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,840 Created in my image. 397 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,840 And I love you both. 398 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,840 And it is that simple. 399 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,840 They are created to correspond to one another. 400 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:25,840 To be what the other one needs in that moment. 401 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:30,840 But also to be independent image bearers of God. 402 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:31,840 Free will baby. 403 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,840 Look it up. 404 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,840 And she's as much an image bearer as he is. I don't know. I'm not going to mic drop there. 405 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,840 Because we just bought these mics. 406 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,840 We don't want to drop them. 407 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:48,840 I fell so hard today, Alyssa. I am so like, I can feel it right here. A giant bruise is coming. 408 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,840 Brianna fell out of a closet today. 409 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:59,840 I was trying to put something up in my closet and I fell off the stool. 410 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,840 She was trying. Okay. Let's back up a moment. 411 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:09,840 Brianna was putting a suitcase seven feet up into the top of her closet. 412 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,840 Brianna is all of five foot three. 413 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:21,840 And this suitcase is an oversized full sized hard suitcase. 414 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,840 Probably full of crap. 415 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,840 Oh, there's two cases. 416 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,840 And then she fell out of the closet. 417 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,840 It hurt. 418 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,840 So now you know what our day was like. I hope your day is going better. 419 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,840 Everybody got hurt today. Everybody was falling. It wasn't a good day. 420 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,840 I tried to do a backbend. It went poorly. 421 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,840 Because you threw me to it. 422 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:49,840 Shut up. 423 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,840 You shouldn't be doing that. 424 00:26:52,840 --> 00:27:02,840 Unless you're like, but you don't stretch. 425 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,840 When you get back on track, I'm going to have to cut this whole section. 426 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:15,840 So one of the things that Bri is going to talk about later and I'm going to talk about now because, wow, is it horrifying. 427 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,840 Well, don't call me that. 428 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,840 That was the amount of bad resources. 429 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,840 Oh my gosh. 430 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,840 I didn't know that's where you were going with this. Yes. 431 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,840 So much bad stuff out there. 432 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:40,840 When you try to Google like any kind of information about this topic, like what I did was Google like feminism in the Bible or something like feminism related to the Bible. 433 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,840 One of the articles I found was from this church. I assume it's a church. 434 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:50,840 There's a website called No Limits Church. I assume it's a church. 435 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:55,840 And it's called feminism in the Bible. And let's see who it's written by. Let me scroll all the way to the bottom. 436 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,840 I don't know if you're allowed to read the name. 437 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,840 Why? 438 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:00,840 Lawsuits? 439 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,840 All right. It rhymes with schmad michmang. 440 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:04,840 Wow. 441 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,840 Schmad schmang. I'm sure you'll be able to find this article. 442 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:19,840 But just like this is the kind, like you said earlier, this is the kind of information that's out there that people are looking to, that men are looking into specifically to justify their position. 443 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,840 And it says, let me quote this. 444 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,840 You can't label me as some sexist spigot because I've proven otherwise through my actions in this church. 445 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:31,840 So to all my false accusers, shut it because you are full of lies. 446 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,840 That is why I think we should name this episode Shut It. 447 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,840 I want everybody else to shut it. 448 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,840 It's so horrible. 449 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,840 And if you have to justify yourself to that level, no. 450 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:51,840 He says, all you have to do is examine how I treat my wife, my three daughters, my mom, my grandma, and the women in this church. 451 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,840 You are valuable and we couldn't do this without you. 452 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,840 Which to me says like, you're not part of this. 453 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,840 But also, it goes on to be so much worse. 454 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:09,840 It goes on to be so much worse. But if you have to justify like, oh, I'm not a sexist spigot because I have tons of friends. 455 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,840 I know so many women, tall women, short women. 456 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,840 That means nothing. Right. That means nothing. 457 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:27,840 Well, and one of the ones that I was looking at, too, this woman, and again, like you really have to dig to find Christian feminist resources. 458 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:34,840 Now, once you find one or two that'll lead you to some more. But there's not a lot of people in this space. 459 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:40,840 It's a scary space to be in. It's it's very villainized, I guess is a good word to use. 460 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,840 But one of the things that I looked up and this this blog was by a woman. 461 00:29:44,840 --> 00:30:00,840 And as we have seen, I don't know if you've seen this as well, but as we have seen, oftentimes this patriarchal view and this complementarian view are pushed forward by women because it's what they've been told. 462 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:09,840 Right. I mean, it's it's hard to it's hard to blame them in some ways because it is what they were grown up. 463 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,840 Well, you're challenging like who you are. 464 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:19,840 You're challenging your faith. Yeah. Because complementarianists have tied this to God. 465 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,840 Like if you don't know, this is very like simplified. 466 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:30,840 But if you don't enjoy doing your laundry with a happy face on and then you aren't as much of a Christian. 467 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,840 Right. Your faith is not as strong as some of the other women in your church. 468 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,840 You're not a biblical woman. Yeah. 469 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:46,840 A Proverbs 31 woman. We'll dive into Proverbs 31. Not today. 470 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,840 But so this this blog in particular, like I said, is written by a woman. 471 00:30:49,840 --> 00:31:00,840 And she says that she really struggled with the concept of being a helper until she dove into what Ezra Konegdo meant. 472 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:09,840 And so she she goes into how to find the quote exactly. So she goes into how being an Ezra, 473 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,840 which is a phrase that they use a lot, is a position of great responsibility. 474 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,840 It's an honor from God because God used this phrase to talk about himself. Right. 475 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:29,840 So it must be an honor and that it doesn't just mean follow your husband in whatever he does. 476 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,840 It just means to she says it's not about fulfilling my husband's every wish and desire, 477 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,840 rather it's about being a trustworthy companion for who fights for his good. 478 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:47,840 And sometimes this means celebrating him. And sometimes it means holding him accountable for wrong decisions, as God does with us. 479 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,840 As I started to break that down a little bit, break it down now. 480 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,840 OK, so we're on five times of singing. That was beatboxing. It's different. 481 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:02,840 At its core, we're saying a lot of the same things. 482 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,840 Maybe it doesn't mean submission. Maybe it means a partnership. 483 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:17,840 And these things that you're saying, these things that she's saying, why would they only apply to women? 484 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:28,840 I want a partner who holds me accountable, who praises me when I do well, who helps me when I'm doing poorly. 485 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,840 If that only applies to women, men are doing a bad job. Right. 486 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:42,840 And I think something important that you mentioned earlier is like, if you both are submitting to God, if you both are listening to God, 487 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,840 like you said, God is not the God of confusion. He's going to give you both the same answer. 488 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,840 He's going to lead you both in the same direction. He's not going to lead you apart from each other. 489 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,840 So why do you need a human leader? Because your human leader is going to fail. 490 00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:00,840 Or like me as a single person. Shout out to all the single people out there. 491 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:10,840 If I am following God right now, why, if I were to get married, would I then like say, OK, God, I'm going to put a pause on our direct relationship right now. 492 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,840 I'm going to add someone to the call. I'm going to add someone to the call, God. 493 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:20,840 And I'm not going to talk directly to you. I'm going to kind of like talk through you, through a person to you. 494 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:30,840 Why? It makes no sense in my head, which is like half the reason why I'm not married. That's not true. 495 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,840 Someday we're going to start getting people asking for dates for you. 496 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,840 Because I'm so beautiful. Just wait until our photo shoot. 497 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:48,840 One of the other things that I wrote down too is if Ezarkhinegdo means being a servant to men or being submissive to men as women, 498 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:57,840 then doesn't it also mean that when God describes himself as Ezarkhinegdo, that he is also submissive to men? 499 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:58,840 Yeah. 500 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:00,840 Like if one is true, then the other has to be true, right? 501 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,840 Right. 502 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,840 And that sounds a lot like blasphemy too. 503 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:10,840 Yeah, because why would God be submitting to anybody, let alone his own creation? 504 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:16,840 Exactly. So it just like the logic just really falls apart when you dive into it. 505 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:23,840 And I think that's why when you Google this stuff, it's just a barrage of anti-feminist garbage 506 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:29,840 because they know if they can get the high Google ratings, you're probably not going to dig a whole lot deeper. 507 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:30,840 No. 508 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,840 And then they win. 509 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:35,840 Yeah. 510 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:36,840 But we're here now. 511 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,840 God is not the god of confusion, but people are. 512 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,840 Particularly some of these people. 513 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,840 Yeah. 514 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,840 So let's see, I have to turn the page on my notes. One moment please. 515 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,840 There's a fun drawing of a man here. 516 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,840 I ripped the whole page off. What is your problem? 517 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:55,840 I don't know how I did that. 518 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,840 You are a strong, confident woman. 519 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:58,840 Thank you. 520 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,840 So to finish off this section, I think it's really important, and this is a good transition, 521 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:09,840 that we believe that patriarchy and complementarianism were not God's dream for humanity. 522 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,840 And that actually is a quote that comes straight from the book Jesus Feminist by Sarah Bessey. 523 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,840 And if you are new to this topic, that's a really great starting off point. 524 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,840 We should have like a book list somewhere. 525 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:29,840 I can do that. I have, guys, if you go on our Instagram, I have a picture of a stack of books, 526 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,840 and it's not even all of my books, but the amount of books I have on this topic. 527 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,840 Gosh, I wish I was literate. 528 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,840 We'll try, Bri. I'll teach you to read. 529 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,840 It's like Beauty and the Beast. 530 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,840 Yeah. I'm the beauty. 531 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,840 I'm the beast. 532 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,840 You want to make me sing again? 533 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,840 We have a whole other topic to do, and we are 43 minutes in. 534 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,840 Good for us. We can cut out a lot of it. 535 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:57,840 Yeah, but still. 536 00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:58,840 Good for us. 537 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:06,840 So to kind of move into our next section, we're going to talk a little bit about how, you know, 538 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,840 in scripture we're told to be outside of culture, right? 539 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,840 We're supposed to be a little bit anti-culture to some degree. We're supposed to be set apart. 540 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,840 Another word that you hear a lot in the conservative Christian world is like worldly. 541 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:21,840 Yeah. 542 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,840 The whole term worldly is very like, you do not want to be of this world. That's very a no-no. 543 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:33,840 Be set apart from whatever. And it's used just really broadly. We're at broad strokes here. 544 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:38,840 Everything from don't get tattoos and piercings to... 545 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:43,840 Definitely don't get a piercing again, because you're going to stab Grandma through the heart. 546 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,840 That's what she tells me every time. 547 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:54,840 All the way to not going to the movie theater, which was more when my mom was a kid as opposed to now. 548 00:36:54,840 --> 00:37:01,840 You can get even as far into like what you wear, like pants, low-cut tops, spaghetti straps. 549 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,840 Are you showing your bra strap? Because women are always being objectified. 550 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:15,840 So the Bible says to be not part of culture. And so we've taken that to mean not part of this culture here in America in 2024. 551 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,840 Which is crap. 552 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:26,840 Because one thing that's important to remember that I've learned in Bible class is that... 553 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,840 And this has really stuck with me from college. 554 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:30,840 I'm glad something did. 555 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:36,840 Shut up. Not a lot. 556 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,840 Sorry if any of my professors are listening. 557 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:41,840 They're not. 558 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,840 I'm still friends with a few of them on Facebook. 559 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,840 They might be. 560 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,840 But that the Bible was written for everyone. 561 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,840 For everyone across the span of time. 562 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,840 But it wasn't written to us here in the United States in 2024. 563 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:03,840 It was written to the Israelite people and the early Christian church. 564 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,840 Because that's all they knew. 565 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,840 Well, like even the idea, and I've talked about this before, at least to you. 566 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:17,840 Like our idea of modesty now in this culture is totally different from their idea of modesty back then. 567 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:18,840 Right. 568 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,840 We're going to do, I think our next episode should be on modesty. 569 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:22,840 We have a lot to say about modesty. 570 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:23,840 Me too. 571 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,840 In saying don't be of the world, don't be of culture. 572 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:32,840 What they were saying at the time wasn't don't be of the world of the United States of 2024 culture. 573 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:37,840 It was don't be of the culture of the Roman... 574 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,840 The Roman culture. The Roman patriarchal culture of the time. 575 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:41,840 Exactly. 576 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,840 Because that is what they were living in. 577 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,840 They were living in Rome. 578 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,840 They were living in, not in Rome, but they were living under Roman rule. 579 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,840 And there was a lot of stuff going on. 580 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:52,840 There was a lot of idol worship going on. 581 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,840 There was a lot of things that we don't necessarily deal with. 582 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,840 So that's what they were talking about. 583 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,840 They were talking about don't be of this current culture. 584 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:01,840 And the Bible really supports that. 585 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,840 And the Roman culture was extremely patriarchal. 586 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,840 So Bri is going to go into a little bit of that. 587 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,840 Well, this is also out of the Making of Biblical Womanhood. 588 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:16,840 Chapter 2, page 46. 589 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,840 I don't know. You all can follow along with me. 590 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,840 Why am I so weird? 591 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,840 Because it's 8-12. 592 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,840 Nearly bedtime. 593 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,840 She talks about the Roman culture and the Roman law. 594 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,840 Wives legally had to submit to the authority of their husbands. 595 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,840 Unmarried women had to submit to the authority of their fathers. 596 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:38,840 Or nearest to male relatives. 597 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,840 Women could not own property or run businesses in their own right. 598 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:48,840 Women could not conduct legal or financial transactions without a man acting on their behalf. 599 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,840 Are you loading again? 600 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,840 Yep. That's all she said. 601 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:58,840 But then, that is Roman law. 602 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,840 So Paul goes on to talk about Christian law. 603 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:09,840 And that was mind-blowing for the people at the time because he gave, or God gave, rights and rules to each person. 604 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,840 Each person was identified. 605 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,840 The slaves, the children, the wives, the husbands. 606 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,840 They were free from the oppressive elements of the Roman law. 607 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,840 So that's when he's talking about be different. 608 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,840 Be different from that patriarchal world where people are oppressed. 609 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,840 Be free with God. 610 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,840 Well, you can even see that earlier in the Bible too because we were talking about the Proverbs 31 woman earlier. 611 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:42,840 And in that segment, she's talked about as owning property, as handling her own finances. 612 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,840 She's essentially creating an empire, okay? 613 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,840 And that would have been very against culture. 614 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:55,840 Well, the ideal woman, from my perspective, growing up in conservative Christian schools, 615 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:04,840 the ideal woman is a wife, is a mother, preferably stay at home mom, embroiderers. 616 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,840 Seriously into embroidery. 617 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,840 Which there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not trying to say that anything is wrong with that. 618 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:19,840 But saying that that is the ideal woman, that all women should strive to be that way, is not fair. 619 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:20,840 It's not biblical. 620 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:25,840 It's not biblical because biblical women are driving tent stakes into each other's eyes. 621 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:30,840 Well, not each other's. 622 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:36,840 Women of the Bible were warriors, and they were preachers, and they were teachers, and they were judges. 623 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:41,840 And they were mothers, and they were homesteaders. 624 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:43,840 I don't think they were homesteading back then. 625 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,840 They were everything. 626 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:51,840 But now we've just... They weren't repressed. They weren't told they couldn't. 627 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,840 Because Jesus told them they could. 628 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,840 And encouraged them to. 629 00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:02,840 In Jesus Feminist, she's got a chapter titled Jesus Made Me a Feminist. 630 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,840 Girl. 631 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:19,840 And I think that's so impactful because Jesus himself did not treat women as though they should be submissive to him, despite the fact that he was God, and that everyone should be submissive to him. 632 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:20,840 Right. 633 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:27,840 He didn't treat even women that way, who, according to Complimentarianism, are even lower than the men on the rungs. 634 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:35,840 And you can see that. I mean, I've got a whole list of things here, but you can see that all over the place. 635 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:40,840 There were female disciples that followed around with Jesus as well. 636 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:47,840 His mother Mary followed. Mary Magdalene was there. There was like a whole giant group of women. 637 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:53,840 And they weren't mentioned as much because at the time, societally, women just were not as important. 638 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:58,840 So when the authors of these books were writing, yeah, there were women there, but kind of who cares? 639 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,840 I think we should do a whole episode on his mother Mary. 640 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:03,840 Oh, 100%. 641 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,840 Because what were you talking about earlier? 642 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:13,840 Well, we should talk about that. So Mary, Jesus' mother Mary, there's a whole bunch of Marys. 643 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,840 Nothing but Mary. 644 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,840 I don't think that was probably their real name. I'm sure this is like a translated name. 645 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,840 Not a lot of Debs. 646 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,840 Not a lot of Debs. 647 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,840 Or maybe. 648 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:32,840 But a bunch of Marys. So Mary, the mother of Jesus, was incredibly obedient to God. 649 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:41,840 And if patriarchy and complementarianism and things like that were correct, 650 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:46,840 God wouldn't have come directly to Mary to say, this is what I want of you. 651 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,840 Because she would have had to ask her husband first. 652 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:54,840 Now, she wasn't married, but God would have gone through Joseph, 653 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,840 or he would have gone through Mary's father, who I don't think is named. 654 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,840 His name was probably Bob? 655 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,840 Yeah, Bob, I think was it. 656 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:08,840 And that's what God would have done, because if there's a hierarchy in place, 657 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:14,840 if God has set forth this hierarchy, then of course he's not going to break it. That's silly. 658 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:20,840 He's going to go through whoever first. Now, God does talk to Joseph eventually, 659 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:28,840 but he goes to Mary. He goes to Mary first, and he says, Mary, this is what I want of you. 660 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:34,840 Not of your husband, not of your family, not of whatever. Just of you. 661 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:39,840 I just need you to trust me. I just need you to follow me as an individual, 662 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,840 as someone who has the full capacity and intelligence to do so. 663 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,840 Again, mic drop. Do we need a lot more than that? 664 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:48,840 Stop dropping our microphones. 665 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,840 I'm sorry. I'm sorry, microphones. I love you. 666 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,840 We should probably name them. 667 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:55,840 We could. 668 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,840 Guys, I have a cricket. We could name them and put their names on them. 669 00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:00,840 Correction. 670 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,840 Guys, Brie has a cricket. 671 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:09,840 Here's the thing though. Brie has used the cricket maybe once. 672 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:10,840 Yep. 673 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:11,840 And I use it all the time. 674 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:12,840 Yes. 675 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:13,840 All the time. 676 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:14,840 You rent my cricket. 677 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:15,840 Yeah. 678 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:22,840 That is a good business idea. You'd want to own your own. 679 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:23,840 Forget the podcast. 680 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,840 Forget the podcast. I'm renting my cricket. 681 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,840 This is the longest we've ever talked. 682 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:30,840 Wow. 683 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:31,840 You're welcome, world. 684 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,840 There's still so much more. But in addition to Mary, 685 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,840 I think there's so many more examples, particularly through the New Testament, 686 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,840 but there's plenty in the Old Testament too, 687 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:49,840 where Jesus is welcoming women to learn to have a relationship with him, 688 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,840 to be their inequality with the men. 689 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:53,840 Right. 690 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,840 At this time, because Jesus was a rabbi, 691 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,840 other rabbis were not welcoming women into their... 692 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:02,840 No. 693 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:04,840 I don't know, hoard? 694 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,840 Their posse? 695 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:08,840 Yeah. 696 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,840 Like women wouldn't have been welcome to just walk around with them 697 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:14,840 and listen to their teachings. 698 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:19,840 These women were spreading the word of Jesus at the same level as the disciples. 699 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,840 This is what it means to set yourself apart. 700 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,840 This is the world that God is envisioning. 701 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:32,840 Jesus was different than the other rabbis for many, many reasons, 702 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:40,840 but one of which was how he treated and valued and held women up. 703 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,840 Right. All people up. 704 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,840 Yeah, exactly. Women ministered with him. 705 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:50,840 I mean, you can see where Jesus has women anoint his head with oil, things like that. 706 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,840 It happens time and time again. 707 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,840 I could find a million examples for you, 708 00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:02,840 and maybe we'll pull one out and dive really deep into some of those stories. 709 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:08,840 But just as an overview, one of the people that I so want to dive deeper into, 710 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:13,840 because I admittedly don't know as much about her as I would like to, 711 00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:15,840 is Mary Magdalene. 712 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:21,840 Mary Magdalene had a reputation of being a prostitute. 713 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,840 Not in the Bible, right? 714 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,840 But somewhere along the line, the Catholic Church, the Pope, 715 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,840 kind of without a lot of reference or reasoning, 716 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,840 was like, yeah, Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. 717 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:38,840 He sort of announced this to the world. 718 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:44,840 What do you say he said, once upon a time, long ago, she was a hoe? 719 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,840 We're going to have to cut that out. 720 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:54,840 So that kind of became part of just her story, I guess. 721 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,840 We have no evidence that this was true. 722 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,840 It's not in the Bible. It's not in any historical records. 723 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,840 But because of that, it changed her story a little bit. 724 00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:09,840 Now, Mary Magdalene was incredibly important to Jesus. 725 00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,840 She was listed in all the Gospels, right? 726 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,840 In all the Gospels. She was there when he was on the cross. 727 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,840 She was one of the women there when he came back from the dead. 728 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,840 I mean, she was there. 729 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,840 So a quote that I had found that I wanted to read, 730 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:31,840 it's from Robert Cargill, who is an assistant professor of religious studies 731 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,840 and also an editor of the Biblical Archaeology Review. 732 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:37,840 Another Bob. 733 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,840 Yeah, another Bob. 734 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,840 He says that Mary appears to have been a disciple of Jesus. 735 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,840 What's important is that Jesus had both male and female disciples in his ministry, 736 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,840 which was not necessarily common at the time. 737 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,840 The prostitute and wife theories, and that's a whole other thing, 738 00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,840 may have been around for centuries, but they are legends and traditions 739 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,840 that grew up long after the fact. 740 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,840 He emphasizes that either of them is rooted in the Bible itself. 741 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:12,840 And this article goes on to kind of theorize that the reason that we turned Mary Magdalene into a prostitute 742 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,840 was because she was so important to Jesus. 743 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,840 She was doing so much work with Jesus. 744 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,840 She was preaching his word. 745 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,840 She was, after he died, she went on to do the same thing. 746 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:33,840 She was loved deeply by Jesus and spent a lot of time with the disciples. 747 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:41,840 And so the theory is that she was threatening to modern-day Christian patriarchy. 748 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:47,840 And so we turned her into a prostitute because then that lets us compare her to other women in the Bible 749 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,840 who weren't as important, who didn't do as much. 750 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,840 Or to justify women not preaching in the church, too. 751 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,840 So we make her small. We make all the women small. 752 00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,840 We amplify everything that they've done wrong, 753 00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:03,840 all the time. 754 00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,840 And we minimize their contributions. 755 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,840 And I'm tired of it. 756 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,840 And apparently that's controversial. 757 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,840 Get comfy. 758 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:20,840 I think we've talked about all of these. We just have to do an outro. 759 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,840 Are you guys having hand? 760 00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:25,840 First. 761 00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:36,840 I'm scared.