WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:13.169 --> 00:00:17.309 Sam Acho: Welcome to the Sam Acho Podcast, where we go first, 00:00:17.729 --> 00:00:19.649 we grow hope, we give space. 00:00:20.249 --> 00:00:24.479 We talk about faith, family, football, and finances, and we do that with 00:00:24.659 --> 00:00:26.309 people from all around the world. 00:00:26.969 --> 00:00:31.409 And today we have a very, very special guest and cliff, as he usually does, 00:00:31.409 --> 00:00:33.359 would love for you to introduce our guest. 00:00:34.709 --> 00:00:37.199 Clif Marshall: Sam, we have a legend on the show today. 00:00:37.199 --> 00:00:41.639 Mack Brown, who's been a head college football coach at Texas, North Carolina. 00:00:43.304 --> 00:00:44.144 Is with us. 00:00:44.444 --> 00:00:49.064 He most recently coached at the University of North Carolina during the 2024 season. 00:00:49.394 --> 00:00:53.354 Coach Brown is known for leading the Tar Heels to their all 00:00:53.354 --> 00:00:55.124 time record number of wins. 00:00:55.544 --> 00:00:59.594 Coach Brown is perhaps more well known for his tenure in Austin, Texas. 00:00:59.954 --> 00:01:05.774 Where he coached the Texas Longhorns from 1998 until 2013, winning a 00:01:05.774 --> 00:01:08.594 national championship in 2005. 00:01:09.044 --> 00:01:14.744 What makes this show so special today is that Coach Brown recruited and coached 00:01:14.774 --> 00:01:20.689 Sam Ocho, our host Sam, went on to be an All-American defensive end in 2010 00:01:20.749 --> 00:01:26.024 for the Longhorns, and then was an NFL draft pick to the Arizona Cardinals. 00:01:26.564 --> 00:01:29.564 So we have a reunion of sorts today on the show. 00:01:31.184 --> 00:01:32.409 We're so glad that you're here. 00:01:33.479 --> 00:01:34.349 Mack Brown: Thank you, cliff. 00:01:34.349 --> 00:01:37.709 You also didn't add that he won the Campbell Award as the smartest 00:01:37.709 --> 00:01:41.339 player in college football that year, so that's pretty cool too. 00:01:41.849 --> 00:01:45.419 When you're an all American, you win all these awards, you're an 00:01:45.419 --> 00:01:49.859 NFL player, but you are also the smartest player in college football. 00:01:49.859 --> 00:01:53.789 So I didn't talk to Sam about anything except football 'cause he was too smart. 00:01:53.789 --> 00:01:57.749 I didn't wanna get into any conversations with him of that 00:01:57.749 --> 00:01:59.459 because I knew I couldn't stay up. 00:02:01.409 --> 00:02:05.699 Clif Marshall: Oh, well, I could tell you Coach Sam was on time this morning. 00:02:05.699 --> 00:02:09.179 He was pumped up, ready to go, setting up straight in his chair. 00:02:09.509 --> 00:02:12.149 The respect he has for you is just incredible. 00:02:12.389 --> 00:02:17.189 And I wanna start to show off today by asking Sam what is the impact that 00:02:17.189 --> 00:02:20.879 Coach Brown has had on you, not only as a football player, but also as a man? 00:02:21.569 --> 00:02:21.869 Sam Acho: Yeah. 00:02:22.259 --> 00:02:24.179 Well, coach, I'm gonna speak to you directly. 00:02:24.629 --> 00:02:26.429 The impact that you've had on me. 00:02:27.449 --> 00:02:30.479 It be put into words, cliff. 00:02:32.744 --> 00:02:35.564 observation that when you got on the call, I mean, we do these podcasts all 00:02:35.564 --> 00:02:38.864 the time, but you got on the call and all of a sudden, not only am I sitting 00:02:38.864 --> 00:02:41.474 up straight and trying to make sure I'm correct, but I'm making sure that 00:02:41.684 --> 00:02:43.394 I'm not only on time, but I'm early. 00:02:43.394 --> 00:02:44.954 I'm making sure you're getting everything you need. 00:02:44.954 --> 00:02:48.584 I try to do this for everyone, but there's a different level of respect and even 00:02:48.584 --> 00:02:55.484 as I'm, even as we were talking before we press record, the biggest correlation 00:02:55.484 --> 00:02:59.144 I can make for you Coach Brown is. 00:03:00.044 --> 00:03:03.554 I remember getting a chance a few years back to meet, uh, president 00:03:03.554 --> 00:03:08.294 Bush and President Clinton at an event in Arizona, and I'd meet people from 00:03:08.294 --> 00:03:11.774 all around the world and, you know, in sports and media and business. 00:03:11.779 --> 00:03:15.734 And, and I remember when President Clinton walked into the room, 00:03:15.734 --> 00:03:17.714 there was this aura about him. 00:03:18.824 --> 00:03:25.124 It was this feel of, man, this is like royalty is what it felt like. 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:31.439 Not even going back to when we first met Coach, but even on this 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:35.849 podcast as we're talking, I'm like, man, this is, this is royalty. 00:03:35.849 --> 00:03:37.319 There's this aura about you. 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:39.839 And I know that doesn't just happen overnight. 00:03:40.409 --> 00:03:43.079 Uh, it's this, it's just who you are. 00:03:43.739 --> 00:03:47.189 And so it's no wonder that you've won everywhere you've been, 00:03:47.939 --> 00:03:49.529 but it's not just on the field. 00:03:50.309 --> 00:03:53.549 Every, anyone who speaks about you or who knows that I know you or 00:03:53.549 --> 00:03:55.649 knows that I, I played for you. 00:03:56.144 --> 00:03:58.514 They say the same things about you. 00:03:59.384 --> 00:04:01.334 They say, man, he's a man of integrity. 00:04:01.964 --> 00:04:03.104 He's a man of character. 00:04:03.374 --> 00:04:04.544 He's a man of his word. 00:04:05.114 --> 00:04:10.964 And those are phrases that are rarely used for people in general, 00:04:10.964 --> 00:04:12.704 but also people of your stature. 00:04:13.184 --> 00:04:17.294 And so the impact that you've had on me, coach Brown, is that you've shown 00:04:17.294 --> 00:04:24.644 me, you've modeled to me specifically what it means not just to be a man. 00:04:25.334 --> 00:04:30.794 Not just to be a leader, not just to be a husband, not just to be a father, but to 00:04:30.794 --> 00:04:34.244 be whole, to be a, a person of integrity. 00:04:35.024 --> 00:04:38.654 And so I just wanted to make sure that you heard that from me because 00:04:39.014 --> 00:04:42.494 as I said, I'm trying to put it into words, but if anyone's watching the 00:04:42.494 --> 00:04:44.924 podcast, there's, they're seeing I'm sitting a little bit different than 00:04:44.924 --> 00:04:46.334 I usually do, you know, and I'm, 00:04:46.719 --> 00:04:47.009 Clif Marshall: Yeah. 00:04:47.084 --> 00:04:49.694 Sam Acho: and uh, I might be talking a little bit different than I usually do. 00:04:49.694 --> 00:04:51.644 I'm just honored coach, that you would say yes. 00:04:52.814 --> 00:04:53.684 Mack Brown: Well, thank you Sam. 00:04:53.684 --> 00:04:59.084 That's the reason you coach right there is because if you can have a small 00:04:59.084 --> 00:05:04.844 influence on somebody's life, um, that that's, that's the reason you coach. 00:05:04.844 --> 00:05:05.354 That's it. 00:05:05.504 --> 00:05:07.394 And, and you can't do it without winning. 00:05:07.424 --> 00:05:08.534 'cause you don't get to stay. 00:05:09.209 --> 00:05:13.169 But the winning is just a byproduct of what you can give to people. 00:05:13.409 --> 00:05:17.579 And you know, I had, uh, Sam did one of our games this year, cliff last year. 00:05:18.089 --> 00:05:23.159 And, um, I had about 15 pictures up on the wall in my office, and the 00:05:23.159 --> 00:05:25.049 two OCHO brothers were in there. 00:05:25.679 --> 00:05:26.219 So not 00:05:26.219 --> 00:05:30.149 only have I had an influence on their lives, they've had a tremendous 00:05:30.149 --> 00:05:33.929 influence on my life, going back to their mom and dad as well. 00:05:33.929 --> 00:05:33.989 I. 00:05:34.409 --> 00:05:39.269 And, and it's just, uh, you're so blessed as a coach because you get to meet so 00:05:39.269 --> 00:05:43.709 many families and really and truly, you get to choose the ones that you think 00:05:43.709 --> 00:05:46.319 should join your family in coaching. 00:05:47.009 --> 00:05:50.099 And Sally and I were very, very careful of who we chose. 00:05:51.089 --> 00:05:54.299 And Sam would tell you, I sat in some offices and rooms and 00:05:54.299 --> 00:05:55.739 homes and said, you know what? 00:05:56.579 --> 00:05:58.349 I don't think I would come if I was you. 00:05:59.039 --> 00:05:59.699 And here's why. 00:06:00.629 --> 00:06:03.389 Because I thought it was very important that. 00:06:04.484 --> 00:06:06.614 I had been recruiting for 47 years. 00:06:06.614 --> 00:06:10.484 That family had been in recruiting for six months, so I knew more 00:06:10.484 --> 00:06:11.984 about the process than they did. 00:06:12.734 --> 00:06:16.484 So I always tried to look at the Acho family and say, if 00:06:16.484 --> 00:06:18.884 I was them, where would I go? 00:06:18.884 --> 00:06:19.274 And why? 00:06:20.624 --> 00:06:24.404 Because if I wouldn't come to Texas, then they're gonna realize that 00:06:24.404 --> 00:06:25.874 at some point it's not gonna work. 00:06:27.144 --> 00:06:30.899 So I always wanted guys that should be there and they should 00:06:30.899 --> 00:06:32.189 be there for the right reasons. 00:06:32.189 --> 00:06:36.149 And, and that's because it, it, uh, that's the reason it worked for so many 00:06:36.149 --> 00:06:40.589 years in, in my estimation, and people were always taken back when you'd be so 00:06:40.589 --> 00:06:45.839 honest with 'em and say, um, I'd always say, say, what are you looking for? 00:06:47.159 --> 00:06:51.479 And then he'd say, well, I'm, he, he was looking at Virginia, he was looking at USC 00:06:51.479 --> 00:06:54.419 and, uh, I, I said, you love your family. 00:06:54.419 --> 00:06:55.529 You need to stay close to home. 00:06:56.804 --> 00:07:02.504 You need to, you, you're smart, you're gonna make a great living, uh, in the 00:07:02.504 --> 00:07:06.944 state of Texas when you get through with all this stuff because that really, that, 00:07:06.944 --> 00:07:08.684 that was his name, image, and likeness. 00:07:08.684 --> 00:07:12.674 Back then, we weren't giving money for name, image, and likeness, but you were 00:07:13.094 --> 00:07:18.464 getting credibility, meeting boosters, uh, making your brand in your own state. 00:07:19.034 --> 00:07:21.104 And he did that in so many different ways. 00:07:21.794 --> 00:07:26.714 Now when Sam Acho walks down the streets in Austin, Texas, people know who he is. 00:07:27.644 --> 00:07:31.454 And if he'd been at Virginia or USC, it probably wouldn't be the same 'cause 00:07:31.454 --> 00:07:35.894 he was gonna move back to Dallas or Austin when he got through playing. 00:07:35.894 --> 00:07:40.034 So I think Sam, more than anything else that that's what I, I've 00:07:40.039 --> 00:07:45.224 enjoyed so much is helping families make the right decision for them. 00:07:45.749 --> 00:07:49.499 If it was the right decision for them to come, it was the right decision for us. 00:07:49.499 --> 00:07:51.989 But if it was the wrong decision for them to come, then it 00:07:51.989 --> 00:07:52.979 didn't work for us either. 00:07:53.789 --> 00:07:56.099 And so many coaches say, I gotta get him. 00:07:56.099 --> 00:07:56.999 He's a five star. 00:07:56.999 --> 00:08:02.069 He's a, uh, and in it really and truly, it's who you get more than what you get. 00:08:02.789 --> 00:08:05.369 And I think that's the, the difference in recruiting. 00:08:07.064 --> 00:08:10.154 Sam Acho: Coach, I did want to ask one question, and I know Cliff had 00:08:10.154 --> 00:08:12.824 a lot of questions, but these are questions I've never been able to ask. 00:08:13.394 --> 00:08:16.934 Uh, why did you recruit me and my family? 00:08:18.749 --> 00:08:24.599 Mack Brown: Number one, you've got incredible integrity, and I love your dad. 00:08:25.559 --> 00:08:26.879 Your dad was direct. 00:08:27.569 --> 00:08:28.619 He knew what he wanted. 00:08:29.309 --> 00:08:31.169 He knew what he wanted for you guys. 00:08:31.739 --> 00:08:35.369 So many parents will sit there and say, oh, it's his decision. 00:08:35.609 --> 00:08:36.749 He's 17. 00:08:37.439 --> 00:08:38.759 It's not his decision. 00:08:39.089 --> 00:08:40.859 He's not ready to make decisions. 00:08:40.859 --> 00:08:43.079 Yet the parents have to help make decisions. 00:08:43.439 --> 00:08:47.999 Your dad was gonna help you make that decision because he loved you so much 00:08:47.999 --> 00:08:51.389 and he knew what was best for you, and he was gonna let you feel like you 00:08:51.389 --> 00:08:53.519 had done it, but he was gonna do it. 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:56.579 And, and, uh, that that was a big part of it. 00:08:56.579 --> 00:09:00.789 The other thing is that when you recruit, you've gotta be smart enough. 00:09:01.304 --> 00:09:03.344 To take a, take a guy who's gonna get better. 00:09:04.964 --> 00:09:09.794 You were a guy who was talented, but you didn't have all the tools yet. 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:12.719 You were gonna work really hard. 00:09:12.719 --> 00:09:14.039 You were gonna stay out of trouble. 00:09:14.129 --> 00:09:16.799 You were gonna eat right, you were gonna gain more weight, you 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:17.849 were gonna get more strength. 00:09:18.239 --> 00:09:22.739 You were gonna be a guy that would finish a lot better than you started, and you've 00:09:22.739 --> 00:09:26.879 gotta be careful sometimes, especially when some of these high school programs 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:31.169 are so well coached and their strength programs are so good that the big guy 00:09:31.169 --> 00:09:35.969 is a better player as a freshman than he is gonna be when he gets to college. 00:09:37.499 --> 00:09:40.139 And, and you, you, he kinda outgrows himself. 00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:44.159 So you, you've gotta get the guy with potential that you can develop, and I 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:46.589 thought you were perfect in, in that area. 00:09:49.559 --> 00:09:49.949 Plus the 00:09:49.949 --> 00:09:52.709 other thing, Sam, and I'm I'm sorry, cliff, let me, this 00:09:52.709 --> 00:09:53.219 other thing. 00:09:53.219 --> 00:09:55.019 Sally and I went back and looked at everybody. 00:09:55.019 --> 00:10:01.379 We'd recruited for 36 years, and we found that when there was a 3.0 00:10:01.379 --> 00:10:05.189 or above, especially at a good school like yours, St. 00:10:05.189 --> 00:10:05.699 Mark's. 00:10:05.714 --> 00:10:11.144 That there was about a 99% chance of success, and we found that 00:10:11.144 --> 00:10:16.334 core GPA was one of the most important indicators for success. 00:10:16.874 --> 00:10:17.924 And then you would ask why? 00:10:17.924 --> 00:10:19.934 Well, it meant you were at home at night. 00:10:20.084 --> 00:10:21.194 It meant you were studying. 00:10:21.524 --> 00:10:23.954 It meant you cared about your grades and you were gonna care 00:10:23.954 --> 00:10:25.244 about 'em when you got there. 00:10:25.694 --> 00:10:28.904 So that meant you weren't out using drugs, you weren't out drunk, or you 00:10:28.904 --> 00:10:30.584 couldn't have kept the grade point up. 00:10:31.124 --> 00:10:35.054 And the second thing we noticed is if it was a high SAT and a low 00:10:35.054 --> 00:10:36.734 GPA, then he is probably lazy. 00:10:37.664 --> 00:10:40.604 'cause he is really smartening read, but he didn't study. 00:10:42.014 --> 00:10:46.784 But if it's a high GPA and a lower test score, it probably meant he just didn't 00:10:46.784 --> 00:10:52.514 do all the SAT testing when he was younger and he didn't learn to read those tests. 00:10:52.514 --> 00:10:53.774 'cause they're, they're different. 00:10:54.254 --> 00:10:54.764 So. 00:10:54.976 --> 00:10:56.426 So you were also. 00:10:56.909 --> 00:11:00.779 Uh, the perfect quote profile for what we were looking for 00:11:00.779 --> 00:11:02.399 with our family and we liked you. 00:11:02.789 --> 00:11:07.049 I also learned that if you, if you don't like somebody, they're not gonna like you. 00:11:08.369 --> 00:11:12.239 And if in that fourth quarter I needed somebody who wanted to 00:11:12.239 --> 00:11:16.259 fight for me, I needed somebody who wanted to fight for himself. 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:20.249 And if you didn't like me, if we didn't like each other, if we weren't all 00:11:20.249 --> 00:11:22.979 in, then this thing just didn't work. 00:11:23.669 --> 00:11:27.179 And, and we had to be aligned and I was aligned with you and your family. 00:11:27.629 --> 00:11:29.249 You had to have a strategic plan. 00:11:29.249 --> 00:11:33.689 I knew you had one, and, and then you had to have a family together 00:11:33.689 --> 00:11:34.919 to make that plan go through. 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:36.839 And, and that all worked for us. 00:11:40.589 --> 00:11:44.819 Clif Marshall: Coach Brown, I have a, um, a kind of a reminder in my office here. 00:11:44.909 --> 00:11:45.479 Um. 00:11:46.664 --> 00:11:50.084 Regard to coaching and it says, A good coach can change a game. 00:11:50.684 --> 00:11:52.994 A great coach can change a life. 00:11:54.074 --> 00:11:59.954 And I was blessed to train Sam Acho for the NFL combine, but I was also able to 00:11:59.954 --> 00:12:05.084 train another a, a number of other Texas Longhorn players like Jackson, Jeff Coat. 00:12:06.869 --> 00:12:07.889 Jordan Hicks. 00:12:08.369 --> 00:12:12.179 I was on the Bengal Strength staff and was able to train guys like Cedric Benson, 00:12:12.899 --> 00:12:17.459 and all of them talked so very highly of the impact that you had on their life. 00:12:18.479 --> 00:12:24.089 I want to ask you, uh, you know, Jordan Hicks, Jackson, Jeff Coat, the Acho 00:12:24.119 --> 00:12:28.439 Brothers, you were able to recruit those guys in high school and then train 00:12:28.439 --> 00:12:30.209 them throughout their college career? 00:12:31.724 --> 00:12:34.724 not necessarily the case now with college football, with the 00:12:34.724 --> 00:12:36.464 NIL and the transfer portal. 00:12:36.554 --> 00:12:40.904 I kind of want to get your thoughts on the current state of college football. 00:12:42.434 --> 00:12:47.774 Mack Brown: Cliff, the, the wonderful thing about what we had in those years. 00:12:48.284 --> 00:12:51.134 Or that I saw Jackson the other night and he's wonderful. 00:12:51.134 --> 00:12:54.134 I saw, um, Jordan the other night, and he's wonderful. 00:12:54.134 --> 00:12:58.754 I see Sam all the time 'cause we had a family and these 00:12:58.754 --> 00:13:01.634 guys are gonna be best friends for the rest of their lives and they're gonna 00:13:01.634 --> 00:13:03.284 be best man in each other's wedding. 00:13:03.284 --> 00:13:05.324 And they're, they're gonna call when they need help. 00:13:05.324 --> 00:13:10.964 And, and if you get a, a, a group like North Carolina supposedly had 00:13:10.964 --> 00:13:13.094 67 players leave since January. 00:13:14.144 --> 00:13:16.544 That means you've got 67 new players. 00:13:16.934 --> 00:13:20.954 Colorado had a complete change of roster when Dion Sanders came. 00:13:21.614 --> 00:13:25.724 Um, so when you, Ole Miss had 38 transfers last year. 00:13:26.324 --> 00:13:30.344 So when you start looking at this, we're not going to have the Sam Achos 00:13:30.344 --> 00:13:34.814 that come in with his freshman class and stay together and grow together 00:13:35.144 --> 00:13:37.124 and win together and graduate together. 00:13:38.549 --> 00:13:40.919 So I, I don't like that near as well. 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:45.269 We're, we're, um, we've, we've really gotta look at the transfer portal because 00:13:46.469 --> 00:13:48.479 Sam's dad wouldn't have let him transfer. 00:13:49.229 --> 00:13:53.399 But a lot of families, if they, they just want 'em to play and they want 'em 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:54.989 to start, they want 'em be in the NFL. 00:13:54.989 --> 00:13:59.579 So if it's not working as a freshman, which most freshmen do not play a lot. 00:14:00.329 --> 00:14:02.369 Um, then they wanna transfer. 00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:07.109 Well, if you transfer once you've got a 63% chance of graduating, because 00:14:07.109 --> 00:14:09.389 of the courses that will not transfer. 00:14:09.689 --> 00:14:13.559 So if you transfer 2, 3, 4, or five times, you're not gonna graduate. 00:14:14.729 --> 00:14:17.069 If you don't graduate, you're probably gonna make more money. 00:14:17.069 --> 00:14:17.494 You can't get a job. 00:14:19.334 --> 00:14:23.624 You're not going to have a community of boosters around you that respected what 00:14:23.624 --> 00:14:28.154 you did and know you and want to hire you when you graduate 'cause you've had five 00:14:28.154 --> 00:14:30.074 different ones or four different schools. 00:14:30.824 --> 00:14:35.264 And then I'm really worried about mental health when we get out because 00:14:35.264 --> 00:14:38.594 you got more money to come to school than you're making when you get out. 00:14:39.434 --> 00:14:42.434 You may, you can't get a job, you may be homeless, you're sure not 00:14:42.434 --> 00:14:44.864 gonna get a job where you can make the amount of money you're going to 00:14:44.864 --> 00:14:46.784 expect after you are given money. 00:14:47.624 --> 00:14:50.924 And given money really coming into school without earning it. 00:14:51.944 --> 00:14:56.774 Um, so I I, we, we need to have some urgency, cliff, and we gotta have some 00:14:56.774 --> 00:15:02.924 things change and change quickly for the, the benefits and mental health to me, of 00:15:02.924 --> 00:15:04.844 college football players and families. 00:15:04.874 --> 00:15:07.154 We've just, we've, we've gotta have some things change. 00:15:09.059 --> 00:15:12.929 Sam Acho: Coach, you talked about mental health, uh, and I'm, I'm jumping in again. 00:15:16.019 --> 00:15:17.819 People don't often see. 00:15:19.544 --> 00:15:24.224 They hear about the impact, they don't see the impact that a coach has on a player. 00:15:25.274 --> 00:15:28.694 I got a chance to not only hear about it and see it, I'm not gonna say the player's 00:15:28.694 --> 00:15:30.704 name, but a, a teammate of, of mine. 00:15:30.704 --> 00:15:35.264 We were at Texas, uh, from a, uh, uh, essentially his dad was like 00:15:35.264 --> 00:15:36.464 the biggest drug dealer in town. 00:15:36.464 --> 00:15:38.324 His uncle was the second biggest, like that whole deal. 00:15:38.744 --> 00:15:41.234 And I didn't know any of this until I'm in the film room one day. 00:15:41.234 --> 00:15:42.884 I believe I was a senior or a junior. 00:15:43.004 --> 00:15:43.934 This guy was a freshman. 00:15:43.934 --> 00:15:46.634 I'm in the, I'm just in the room, meeting room by myself watching tape. 00:15:46.904 --> 00:15:48.104 This guy happens to hop in. 00:15:48.104 --> 00:15:51.524 We have a conversation and he comes to tell me that, oh yeah, 00:15:51.524 --> 00:15:54.974 every morning at, I think it's 6:00 AM correct me if I'm wrong. 00:15:55.304 --> 00:15:58.364 He's like, I go and I meet with Coach Brown and we just talk about life 00:16:01.454 --> 00:16:01.694 coach. 00:16:01.694 --> 00:16:04.664 This guy's family was, like, I said, we talked about it. 00:16:04.664 --> 00:16:08.264 Dad was, I mean, you could explain the story, but why? 00:16:08.684 --> 00:16:09.584 Why that? 00:16:10.544 --> 00:16:12.344 Why do you do that part of it? 00:16:14.009 --> 00:16:16.799 Mack Brown: Sam, I, I, uh, I love my grandfather. 00:16:17.459 --> 00:16:22.979 He was the, my, my mentor and he was the, uh, winningest football 00:16:22.979 --> 00:16:25.379 coach, high school football coach in Middle Tennessee history. 00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:28.229 At that time, our high school stadiums named after him, Eddie Jelly 00:16:28.229 --> 00:16:33.659 Watson, he was the first to integrate schools in the state of Tennessee. 00:16:34.649 --> 00:16:38.339 So he got it long before anybody should get it. 00:16:38.819 --> 00:16:42.419 So I went to school with guys of color and didn't even think anything about it. 00:16:43.049 --> 00:16:46.619 Um, so when I got into coaching, I. 00:16:47.609 --> 00:16:52.289 The influence that a Steve Sloan, who was at, uh, Florida State is my offensive 00:16:52.289 --> 00:16:55.859 coordinator, a Bill Parcells, who was the defensive coordinator at Florida State, 00:16:55.859 --> 00:16:58.079 and then head coach of the Cowboys. 00:16:58.349 --> 00:17:00.839 My grandfather, my dad was a coach. 00:17:01.229 --> 00:17:03.959 The influence that those guys had on me. 00:17:04.919 --> 00:17:08.669 And then older coaches have been so good to me. 00:17:08.669 --> 00:17:11.009 Coach Royal was like an older brother to me. 00:17:11.009 --> 00:17:17.279 Coach Bowden, coach Paterno, uh, coach Beckler, coach Holts, those guys, I 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:22.619 could call them, they'd call me right back and, and answer my questions. 00:17:23.249 --> 00:17:27.899 So they had such an influence on me then I felt like I needed to be that guy. 00:17:28.949 --> 00:17:31.649 So you, you think about why you're coaching. 00:17:32.399 --> 00:17:35.189 And, and people would say, well, he's a player's coach. 00:17:35.309 --> 00:17:39.269 Well, I hope that's what, that's what this is all about. 00:17:40.439 --> 00:17:46.139 And then Sam, as we get older, we, we have so many, uh, players say, 00:17:46.139 --> 00:17:49.529 remember when you grabbed me as a sophomore and you, you jumped me for 00:17:49.529 --> 00:17:51.719 this and. 00:17:52.934 --> 00:17:55.424 Some of it I remember, some of it I don't, I probably didn't jump 00:17:55.424 --> 00:17:58.034 him as much as he felt like I was jumping him, but that's okay. 00:17:58.574 --> 00:18:03.584 Uh, but, but when I get sit down with you guys and realize that a 00:18:03.584 --> 00:18:07.244 coach has to be really careful what he says to a player because the 00:18:07.244 --> 00:18:10.844 player listens and it does matter. 00:18:12.029 --> 00:18:17.999 And then at North Carolina, we, um, we were there for a month, month and a half. 00:18:18.299 --> 00:18:20.609 They'd won three games two years before we got there. 00:18:20.609 --> 00:18:22.079 They'd won two games a year before. 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.709 So they're really struggling and they didn't have a lot of self-confidence. 00:18:25.709 --> 00:18:28.769 And one of the guys in the first team meeting said, tell us how you win. 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:31.829 I thought, oh gosh, we don't have time for that today. 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:35.729 Um, so we were in the mountains of North Carolina. 00:18:35.729 --> 00:18:37.049 We had a friend that worked. 00:18:37.754 --> 00:18:38.954 For us around our house. 00:18:38.954 --> 00:18:42.824 And his son worked for our, some, his son was a freshman at, at Appalachian State. 00:18:43.274 --> 00:18:47.384 He committed suicide and it scared us. 00:18:48.164 --> 00:18:49.874 We ran back to the team immediately. 00:18:49.874 --> 00:18:51.314 We knew we didn't know him very well. 00:18:51.314 --> 00:18:54.074 We knew they weren't at a great place with our confidence. 00:18:55.034 --> 00:18:57.284 And we had a team meeting and Sally and I sat there and you 00:18:57.284 --> 00:18:58.604 know how involved Sally is? 00:18:58.604 --> 00:19:00.524 It's a she, she loves the players. 00:19:00.524 --> 00:19:06.074 And we sat there and said, okay, I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm not a doctor. 00:19:07.214 --> 00:19:10.784 So I, I don't know enough about suicide and what I'm supposed 00:19:10.784 --> 00:19:12.014 to say and all those things. 00:19:12.314 --> 00:19:14.684 I do know that it really hurts your parents and it's 00:19:14.684 --> 00:19:16.334 selfish if you take your life. 00:19:17.024 --> 00:19:19.394 I do know it really hurts your friends and your teammates. 00:19:19.394 --> 00:19:25.364 So if anybody in here is struggling, man, don't, let's, let's just talk about it. 00:19:26.174 --> 00:19:27.284 It's not worth it. 00:19:27.344 --> 00:19:28.514 We're, it'll be okay. 00:19:28.994 --> 00:19:31.904 We all go up and down and we get in some tough places and 00:19:31.904 --> 00:19:33.494 we need to work ourselves out. 00:19:34.034 --> 00:19:35.204 And I said, uh. 00:19:36.134 --> 00:19:38.864 So the, let's come on man. 00:19:39.674 --> 00:19:43.664 Let, let's talk to a friend, talk to me, talk to a counselor, anybody, 00:19:43.664 --> 00:19:45.224 and it'll be, it'll be private. 00:19:45.884 --> 00:19:48.884 So we go upstairs and a young man named Jake Lawler that the 00:19:48.884 --> 00:19:52.004 story was done by ESPN, so he doesn't mind me using his name. 00:19:52.844 --> 00:19:55.724 He came upstairs and sat there with Sally and I, and he said I was on a 00:19:55.724 --> 00:20:00.914 bridge a couple of nights ago and I was, I was gonna jump and I need help. 00:20:02.544 --> 00:20:02.624 Clif Marshall: Hmm. 00:20:03.269 --> 00:20:06.509 Mack Brown: He got help now, he's a great screenwriter for Disney. 00:20:07.349 --> 00:20:08.999 Uh, he's doing so well. 00:20:08.999 --> 00:20:12.029 So the, you've gotta be careful, Sam. 00:20:12.029 --> 00:20:16.259 You can not only help change lives, but you can help save lives as a coach. 00:20:17.249 --> 00:20:19.529 And I'm constantly preaching to coaches. 00:20:19.529 --> 00:20:24.299 When you walk by a young guy and he looks down or he doesn't look 00:20:24.299 --> 00:20:26.849 at you, he's screaming for help. 00:20:26.849 --> 00:20:26.909 I. 00:20:28.124 --> 00:20:31.304 So when you say something to a player, you better be really, really 00:20:31.304 --> 00:20:36.104 careful that that not only do you mean it, but you can follow up with it. 00:20:36.104 --> 00:20:40.334 So one of the things we did at North Carolina better than Texas, 'cause the 00:20:40.334 --> 00:20:44.999 setup wasn't that way, we ate lunch every day with our players at North 00:20:44.999 --> 00:20:48.344 Carolina and Sally would go sit with one and I would sit with another group 00:20:48.344 --> 00:20:52.904 and, and then if, if, like if you were walking by and I'd say, Sam, how are you? 00:20:52.904 --> 00:20:53.714 And you said, I'm okay. 00:20:54.434 --> 00:20:55.904 Then I knew I better go sit down. 00:20:56.849 --> 00:20:57.659 Something was wrong. 00:20:58.589 --> 00:21:02.999 And I would say, okay, that's not your, your normal facial expression. 00:21:03.659 --> 00:21:05.159 Um, help me man, what's wrong? 00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:07.559 And he'd usually say, I lost a friend last night. 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:10.199 I had a friend get shot. 00:21:10.199 --> 00:21:12.359 I had, I had a friend die in a car wreck. 00:21:12.899 --> 00:21:14.099 My mom's got cancer. 00:21:14.729 --> 00:21:16.949 And then you say, okay, let's, let's get some help. 00:21:17.189 --> 00:21:20.309 Let, let's get, uh, mental health counseling today. 00:21:20.729 --> 00:21:22.589 We, it's, there's nothing wrong with that. 00:21:23.234 --> 00:21:26.564 And we had Dwight Hollier, who was a great linebacker in the NFL that 00:21:26.564 --> 00:21:30.794 played for us at North Carolina, uh, was our mental health counselor. 00:21:31.424 --> 00:21:32.714 So he would come and eat lunch. 00:21:32.714 --> 00:21:34.034 He'd be at every practice. 00:21:34.424 --> 00:21:37.784 So we, we wanted guys around just we can help. 00:21:37.784 --> 00:21:41.624 And it's, uh, when I was growing up, you weren't supposed to talk to counselors. 00:21:42.224 --> 00:21:43.034 You were soft. 00:21:43.184 --> 00:21:43.934 You were weak. 00:21:44.444 --> 00:21:45.824 and and now it's okay. 00:21:46.409 --> 00:21:48.239 If you need help, reach out and get help. 00:21:48.239 --> 00:21:53.699 But, uh, that's the thing, Sam and Cliff more than anything else, is that 00:21:53.909 --> 00:21:58.439 I graded myself on how the players did after they got outta school. 00:21:59.399 --> 00:22:02.129 We said it was a 40 year decision, it's not a four. 00:22:03.029 --> 00:22:08.009 And we said, if we buy into this and you, you come to our school, then your family. 00:22:09.134 --> 00:22:12.434 Then we're gonna take care of you the best we can for the, the rest of 00:22:12.434 --> 00:22:14.174 our lives and the rest of your lives. 00:22:14.384 --> 00:22:15.224 And that's important. 00:22:15.224 --> 00:22:17.474 Now, some of you guys are getting old enough, it's a 50 year 00:22:17.474 --> 00:22:20.744 decision instead of 40, so I gotta, I gotta keep it going here. 00:22:21.854 --> 00:22:27.224 But I think the, the impact of a coach is, is really how you change lives and 00:22:27.224 --> 00:22:32.564 how you possibly save lives, even that you may not know anything about and, 00:22:32.564 --> 00:22:36.404 and how you help young people take negatives and turn 'em into positives. 00:22:36.929 --> 00:22:42.389 This year we had a, um, a very difficult situation at North Carolina 00:22:42.419 --> 00:22:44.219 with a young man named Tylee, Kraft. 00:22:44.999 --> 00:22:49.439 And Tylee was in an elevator with Sally when he was, um, 21 years 00:22:49.439 --> 00:22:54.659 old, and he fell and we were scared and we thought he had back cramps. 00:22:54.659 --> 00:22:55.409 That's what they thought. 00:22:55.409 --> 00:22:56.969 Well, that night he couldn't sleep. 00:22:56.969 --> 00:22:57.869 They took him to the hospital. 00:22:57.869 --> 00:22:59.549 He had stage four lung cancer. 00:23:00.449 --> 00:23:05.879 So because of great treatment at at UNC hospitals and, and being around the team. 00:23:06.509 --> 00:23:09.389 And he was able to live for two and a half more years. 00:23:09.389 --> 00:23:12.569 But one of the reasons that we felt like we should stay another 00:23:12.569 --> 00:23:14.999 year in coaching, uh, was for him. 00:23:15.959 --> 00:23:21.359 'cause we knew it, it, it wasn't going to end well for him and the team. 00:23:21.899 --> 00:23:23.219 And, and what a tough thing. 00:23:23.219 --> 00:23:28.859 We lost Cole Pittman many years ago with a, a truck accident at, at, uh, Texas. 00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:32.669 Um, but that, that was in the spring is really hard. 00:23:33.209 --> 00:23:34.949 This was going to be during the season. 00:23:35.849 --> 00:23:41.459 So Sally and I stayed and, and we learned a lot of things from Tylee, um, because 00:23:41.459 --> 00:23:45.269 he would come to every practice, he'd be throwing up after chemo and radiation, 00:23:45.809 --> 00:23:49.109 and he would come out and be throwing up and I'd say, go back to your apartment. 00:23:49.289 --> 00:23:49.799 Come on man. 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:50.909 Get some sleep, get some rest. 00:23:50.909 --> 00:23:51.599 He said, no, coach. 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:53.069 I need to be around my, my team. 00:23:53.939 --> 00:23:55.259 I need to be around my family. 00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:57.869 And, and then he would fight. 00:23:57.869 --> 00:24:03.359 And then he went from, from working out to a, a cane, to a wheelchair, to hospice. 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:06.479 And the guys watched him go through those stages. 00:24:07.244 --> 00:24:11.519 And, and that's a, a very difficult learning situation 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:12.784 when you see somebody your age. 00:24:13.504 --> 00:24:13.624 I. 00:24:14.054 --> 00:24:15.524 That, that's not gonna make it. 00:24:16.184 --> 00:24:20.504 And then guys, we even had it where we were, it was the Georgia Tech game. 00:24:21.404 --> 00:24:24.554 Had a call on Friday night at like two o'clock in the morning that 00:24:24.554 --> 00:24:28.184 said, we don't know that Ali's gonna make it till the game tomorrow. 00:24:28.184 --> 00:24:29.084 The game was at noon. 00:24:30.614 --> 00:24:32.054 And I'm thinking, okay, what do you do? 00:24:33.194 --> 00:24:34.154 What's best for the team? 00:24:34.154 --> 00:24:35.144 Do you cancel a game? 00:24:36.769 --> 00:24:38.774 Do do you tell him if he dies tonight? 00:24:39.434 --> 00:24:39.884 Um. 00:24:40.484 --> 00:24:44.624 Then he, we, we got to the stadium at 10 because he made it through the night. 00:24:45.404 --> 00:24:46.874 What if he dies at 10 30? 00:24:48.344 --> 00:24:49.484 What if he dies at 11? 00:24:49.484 --> 00:24:50.774 Do you still have the game? 00:24:52.034 --> 00:24:52.724 Do you tell him? 00:24:52.724 --> 00:24:53.564 Do you not tell him? 00:24:53.894 --> 00:24:58.514 And he was being honored, his family was being honored 'cause he was in hospice 00:24:58.904 --> 00:25:02.924 at the end of the first quarter and I was hugging his mom and I could tell she 00:25:02.924 --> 00:25:05.354 was crying, so I knew it wasn't good. 00:25:05.864 --> 00:25:09.074 Um, so Tylee died during the second quarter. 00:25:10.394 --> 00:25:14.654 And then after the game, we get beat on the last play of the game, Sam. 00:25:14.654 --> 00:25:15.254 It's awful. 00:25:15.254 --> 00:25:16.634 We're we're, we're tied. 00:25:16.634 --> 00:25:20.024 We drop a touchdown pass, win the game, then they get the ball back, they hand 00:25:20.024 --> 00:25:24.524 it off and go 68 yards on an inside zone for a touchdown, which cannot happen. 00:25:25.394 --> 00:25:27.704 So I'm walking off the field, we've just lost a game. 00:25:28.634 --> 00:25:33.134 And Sally says, she said Tylee just passed away. 00:25:33.974 --> 00:25:37.454 And his mom wants you to tell the team, she wants you to tell the media and she 00:25:37.454 --> 00:25:38.714 wants you to come and see the family. 00:25:40.364 --> 00:25:43.694 So as a head coach, your responsibility is, is not about 00:25:43.754 --> 00:25:48.764 that, that last play, which shouldn't happen, you gotta fix that. 00:25:48.764 --> 00:25:50.744 But what do you say to a team? 00:25:51.884 --> 00:25:54.974 You just lost a, a devastating game on the last play of the 00:25:54.974 --> 00:25:56.114 game that you shouldn't have. 00:25:57.644 --> 00:26:00.164 Oh, by the way, you lost one of your best friends too. 00:26:01.574 --> 00:26:03.494 He passed away during the second quarter. 00:26:04.364 --> 00:26:07.874 Then what do you say to the media then how do you go handle the, the family? 00:26:08.444 --> 00:26:14.384 But those are coachee's responsibilities and a lot of people, you, you, and why I 00:26:14.384 --> 00:26:20.024 say that is, is that was such a negative to lose such a wonderful young person. 00:26:20.024 --> 00:26:20.204 He is. 00:26:20.204 --> 00:26:21.584 Got a great, great point. 00:26:21.584 --> 00:26:22.244 Average. 00:26:22.604 --> 00:26:25.454 He was a, a really super person. 00:26:25.754 --> 00:26:27.614 He was going to be a starting receiver. 00:26:28.259 --> 00:26:32.609 And, and you, you go through all of that and then at the end you look back and at 00:26:32.609 --> 00:26:35.039 the funeral they said a couple of things. 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:38.939 The, the minister said, um, Mitch Mason, who is our minister, who's doing 00:26:38.939 --> 00:26:42.899 a great job and he's got a rare nerve disease that he's fighting through. 00:26:42.899 --> 00:26:47.549 So, um, the, he gets up and says, okay, you, you don't know how 00:26:47.549 --> 00:26:49.259 much time you've got, none of you. 00:26:51.269 --> 00:26:52.589 So you better enjoy your time. 00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:54.959 'cause you control some things in your life. 00:26:54.959 --> 00:26:56.969 You don't control how long you live. 00:26:57.779 --> 00:26:58.679 We just saw that. 00:27:00.809 --> 00:27:02.249 So you better get up every morning. 00:27:02.249 --> 00:27:03.989 You better be grateful for what you've got. 00:27:04.019 --> 00:27:08.069 You better be happy and you better be giving back to other people. 00:27:08.819 --> 00:27:13.559 And the second thing he said, which made sense, he said, and if you and 00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:19.319 your family and your best friends are healthy, you have no problems 00:27:21.509 --> 00:27:24.599 because you go home today and they say your wife's got a month to live. 00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:26.039 You drop all those other problems. 00:27:27.869 --> 00:27:31.679 You better be grateful every night when you go to bed and every morning when you 00:27:31.739 --> 00:27:34.079 get up and, and, and pray for health. 00:27:34.889 --> 00:27:38.339 And I, I always pray for health and happiness of my family, my 00:27:38.339 --> 00:27:39.869 friends, and all of our players. 00:27:41.429 --> 00:27:43.739 I say, God, I know to make 'em all happy is a little tough. 00:27:45.389 --> 00:27:47.099 I, I want health for sure. 00:27:47.219 --> 00:27:50.249 I'd like to have happiness, but if they're healthy, they're probably gonna 00:27:50.249 --> 00:27:52.289 be happy and we can help 'em be happy. 00:27:52.289 --> 00:27:54.389 But let's, let's make sure they're healthy. 00:27:54.749 --> 00:27:58.649 So you, you have to take things as a coach and, and learn, but you 00:27:58.649 --> 00:28:01.949 have to take negatives and, and try to turn 'em into a positive. 00:28:01.949 --> 00:28:04.589 And I learned so much from Cole Pittman's Loss. 00:28:05.264 --> 00:28:05.924 I still do. 00:28:06.164 --> 00:28:06.734 There's a book. 00:28:06.734 --> 00:28:10.784 His dad, mark did, there's a movie coming out now that they're working on. 00:28:10.964 --> 00:28:12.764 I learned so much from Tylee. 00:28:12.764 --> 00:28:16.214 He, he, he said at the end, the last thing he said to the 00:28:16.214 --> 00:28:17.654 team was, man, keep swinging. 00:28:19.244 --> 00:28:19.964 Keep swinging. 00:28:19.964 --> 00:28:23.294 So every time I think about something negative in my life, 00:28:23.294 --> 00:28:24.584 I said, keep swinging, man. 00:28:25.244 --> 00:28:26.954 'cause I can see Tylee smiling. 00:28:28.049 --> 00:28:33.029 So some people can live for 85 years and not impact people's lives. 00:28:33.269 --> 00:28:39.839 Tylee lived for 23 and he had a huge influence on so many people, 00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:41.279 in fact, in the entire state. 00:28:41.879 --> 00:28:46.379 And I think that Cliff is what coaching's about more than anything else. 00:28:48.749 --> 00:28:49.889 Clif Marshall: I couldn't agree more. 00:28:49.889 --> 00:28:54.389 Coach, I hear you talking and I just hear you talking now that you kind of 00:28:54.389 --> 00:28:56.369 coached with an eternal perspective. 00:28:56.429 --> 00:28:59.849 And what I've learned being a strength and conditioning coach for 25 years 00:28:59.849 --> 00:29:04.709 is that results are temporary, but relationships are eternal. 00:29:05.549 --> 00:29:09.899 And I just talking on the show here, we, we oftentimes 00:29:09.899 --> 00:29:11.254 talk to our guests about pain. 00:29:12.074 --> 00:29:18.494 How pain can have purpose and as painful as these tragic deaths were, I can see 00:29:18.494 --> 00:29:24.554 that there's purpose in it and the way that these athletes have impacted others. 00:29:24.584 --> 00:29:27.614 And now the way as a coach, you impacted your athletes at both 00:29:28.034 --> 00:29:31.004 Texas and also North Carolina. 00:29:31.484 --> 00:29:37.664 Um, I did want to ask you, coach, um, you had great success in college. 00:29:37.724 --> 00:29:39.974 You won a national championship at Texas. 00:29:40.784 --> 00:29:44.744 You go to North Carolina, you become the all time winningest coach 00:29:45.284 --> 00:29:47.324 in the football team's history. 00:29:47.954 --> 00:29:53.684 Did you ever think of moving on to the NFL and coaching professional football? 00:29:53.684 --> 00:29:53.744 I. 00:29:54.419 --> 00:29:57.539 Mack Brown: Cliff I did, and I had a couple opportunities and, and 00:29:57.539 --> 00:30:02.429 when I really thought about it, I thought my gift is relationships. 00:30:02.579 --> 00:30:06.864 My gift is to take the 17, 18-year-old and help him grow. 00:30:08.204 --> 00:30:10.064 I didn't know about free agency. 00:30:10.844 --> 00:30:14.744 I didn't know about the NFLI had Dan Hennings, a great friend of mine and I 00:30:14.744 --> 00:30:16.664 coached with him at, at Florida State. 00:30:16.664 --> 00:30:22.004 He, he was the head coach of the Falcons and maybe the, the Chargers, and he 00:30:22.004 --> 00:30:23.384 was the head coach at Boston College. 00:30:23.384 --> 00:30:26.234 And he said, once, don't coach in the pros. 00:30:26.234 --> 00:30:29.294 'cause you can't afford to live in the same neighborhood with a quarterback. 00:30:30.829 --> 00:30:34.874 And, and it's getting to be that way in college now, so 00:30:34.874 --> 00:30:36.314 that's a little bit tougher too. 00:30:36.314 --> 00:30:39.044 With, with, with, with NIL. 00:30:39.254 --> 00:30:42.344 Uh, Vince Young told me the other day, coach, if we had NIL I'd 00:30:42.344 --> 00:30:43.964 still be playing college football. 00:30:43.964 --> 00:30:45.134 And I think that's true. 00:30:46.274 --> 00:30:49.304 He still would and he'd be making more than he would in the pros. 00:30:49.544 --> 00:30:53.804 Um, but, but I just felt like that God put me in a place 00:30:53.804 --> 00:30:55.424 to, to coach college football. 00:30:56.234 --> 00:30:59.804 And that's who I was and what I was, and I knew what I was doing. 00:30:59.804 --> 00:31:05.414 I knew what I wanted and I didn't want to go to a place where I 00:31:05.414 --> 00:31:08.144 wasn't sure what was going on. 00:31:08.144 --> 00:31:10.904 And, and I went, Sam knows I wanted to be in charge. 00:31:11.894 --> 00:31:16.814 And in the NFL, as the owner in charge, as the general manager in charge, 00:31:17.324 --> 00:31:18.674 are you in charge of everything? 00:31:18.914 --> 00:31:21.494 I didn't want scouts telling me who to recruit. 00:31:23.174 --> 00:31:27.554 I didn't want draft choices being picked that maybe I didn't want. 00:31:28.274 --> 00:31:32.474 So I just felt like Cliff, that I, I wasn't, I, I always tried to 00:31:32.474 --> 00:31:34.394 evaluate was I best for them too. 00:31:34.994 --> 00:31:38.774 So for that reason, I felt like I wasn't best for the NFL 00:31:38.774 --> 00:31:39.974 because I wasn't bought in. 00:31:40.989 --> 00:31:43.034 I really didn't grow up with it. 00:31:43.034 --> 00:31:45.554 I, I didn't know enough about it. 00:31:45.554 --> 00:31:47.234 I was, I was gonna be the rookie. 00:31:48.299 --> 00:31:52.409 And that's why so many college coaches that go to the NFLI think don't make 00:31:52.409 --> 00:31:55.799 it 'cause there's such a learning curve and you don't have much time. 00:31:56.639 --> 00:32:00.659 And, and that was the, uh, one of the, the more important things. 00:32:00.659 --> 00:32:04.949 And, and, um, I, I talked to a couple of people about head coaching 00:32:04.949 --> 00:32:11.129 jobs and, uh, was offered one and just said, no, not our deal. 00:32:11.399 --> 00:32:11.909 We're, we're. 00:32:12.449 --> 00:32:16.379 We we're college coaches, and Sally was very involved and, 00:32:16.889 --> 00:32:19.229 um, it, it was perfect for us. 00:32:19.229 --> 00:32:23.279 And, uh, I had a wonderful 36 years as a head coach and, and 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:24.449 wouldn't trade it for anything. 00:32:26.054 --> 00:32:26.274 Sam Acho: Mm. 00:32:27.159 --> 00:32:31.899 Coach you as, as I'm listening and I know you, but a lot of people who are 00:32:31.899 --> 00:32:36.429 listening probably know you as well, but you, you talk about Sally a lot, and 00:32:38.484 --> 00:32:41.349 I want to tell a story, and then I'll ask a question. 00:32:42.939 --> 00:32:43.689 I asked you. 00:32:44.969 --> 00:32:46.589 Why me and my family? 00:32:46.589 --> 00:32:49.619 Well, the reason I chose Texas, I was getting recruited by, you 00:32:49.619 --> 00:32:53.519 know, a bunch of different schools, but every coach that I met, they 00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:55.229 always talk about, oh, we're family. 00:32:55.259 --> 00:32:58.529 We're a family, family atmosphere, family, this family that, 00:32:58.949 --> 00:32:59.699 and I visited all 00:32:59.714 --> 00:32:59.954 Mack Brown: out. 00:32:59.954 --> 00:33:02.024 You liked out Outgrow and Pete Carol. 00:33:02.024 --> 00:33:02.414 I know. 00:33:02.414 --> 00:33:03.374 I, I remember. 00:33:03.764 --> 00:33:04.664 I remember sitting, 00:33:04.829 --> 00:33:06.029 Sam Acho: But I said, no, I, 00:33:08.369 --> 00:33:08.939 this is true. 00:33:08.939 --> 00:33:09.239 This is true. 00:33:09.239 --> 00:33:11.459 I was, I was this close to going to USCI was this close to going to 00:33:11.459 --> 00:33:17.879 Virginia, but then I ended up visiting Texas and when I visited Austin Real, 00:33:18.029 --> 00:33:21.719 actually, before I go there, coach, you were, I need to hear this story. 00:33:22.169 --> 00:33:28.199 Um, so was getting recruited by a bunch of different schools and you were. 00:33:28.784 --> 00:33:32.324 I think you, were you on like the one vacation that you take O over the year? 00:33:33.314 --> 00:33:35.744 And mind you, I'm like, okay, where's Texas? 00:33:35.744 --> 00:33:36.374 Where's Texas? 00:33:36.374 --> 00:33:39.764 And then finally, I think you ended your vacation early because some of the 00:33:39.764 --> 00:33:43.694 coaches were like, Hey, Sam is thinking about going to the to these other places. 00:33:44.444 --> 00:33:48.134 But when I went to go and visit, not only was I met, you know, people who 00:33:48.134 --> 00:33:49.184 know me and they know I'm Nigerian. 00:33:49.184 --> 00:33:49.394 Right? 00:33:49.394 --> 00:33:53.954 So you had Brian Orakpo, a Nigerian player, Chris ob, who I saw a couple 00:33:53.954 --> 00:33:55.574 weeks ago, meet me and greet me. 00:33:56.759 --> 00:33:59.309 Then I walked into your office and it was you. 00:33:59.579 --> 00:34:01.379 It was my mom, my dad, me and my brother. 00:34:01.379 --> 00:34:05.219 But it was you and it was your wife, Sally, sitting down in your office. 00:34:06.239 --> 00:34:11.009 Every other place I've been to, they talk about family, but none of them 00:34:11.009 --> 00:34:12.779 ever had their family with them. 00:34:14.399 --> 00:34:20.639 You asked why I committed to Texas because when you said something, you backed it up. 00:34:21.209 --> 00:34:23.039 You meant it, and so. 00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:28.439 All that being said, my question is, what does Sally Brown mean to you? 00:34:30.209 --> 00:34:34.649 Mack Brown: Um, Sally's been everything to, to me and our program. 00:34:34.649 --> 00:34:39.434 And, um, I was married 18 years, got a divorce. 00:34:39.434 --> 00:34:47.549 Uh, the girls, I, I met Sally a year and a half later and the girls lived with us 00:34:47.549 --> 00:34:49.799 halftime and they were her girls then. 00:34:50.249 --> 00:34:51.749 Uh, she had two boys. 00:34:51.749 --> 00:34:53.309 They became my sons. 00:34:53.849 --> 00:34:56.729 Um, 'cause we were the ver Reverse Brady Bunch. 00:34:57.449 --> 00:35:02.399 Sally was, uh, she had a, uh, architectural design degree from Cal. 00:35:02.399 --> 00:35:05.429 She'd never seen a football game when we met. 00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:07.139 She had no interest. 00:35:07.139 --> 00:35:08.969 In fact, she said, I don't care about football. 00:35:09.509 --> 00:35:12.419 Then she realized when you lose, you do care about football 00:35:12.419 --> 00:35:13.319 'cause you're miserable. 00:35:13.319 --> 00:35:14.249 The players are miserable. 00:35:14.249 --> 00:35:15.779 She said, Ooh, I get it. 00:35:15.839 --> 00:35:16.499 We need to win. 00:35:16.979 --> 00:35:18.929 And that's a big part of this. 00:35:19.289 --> 00:35:25.529 Um, but I always felt like that players' moms are really important to 'em. 00:35:27.059 --> 00:35:31.169 And that if you're going to have a family, there need to be ladies around. 00:35:32.549 --> 00:35:35.849 And all of the assistant coaches', wives needed to be involved. 00:35:35.849 --> 00:35:37.949 They need to be around, they need to be at practice. 00:35:38.534 --> 00:35:43.754 And that's why I also said that, um, I, I don't want cussing at practice. 00:35:44.504 --> 00:35:47.864 I don't want screaming and demeaning players at practice. 00:35:47.894 --> 00:35:50.654 'cause we got ladies there and we got children. 00:35:50.654 --> 00:35:54.554 I wanted the children in the, in the, um, in the office because 00:35:54.554 --> 00:35:56.234 the coaches are gone so much. 00:35:56.984 --> 00:36:01.034 I still wanted them to be able to be a father and, and be 00:36:01.034 --> 00:36:03.194 able to, uh, have a family. 00:36:03.194 --> 00:36:07.394 So Sally decided, Sam, that she would come to every practice. 00:36:07.394 --> 00:36:07.454 I. 00:36:08.699 --> 00:36:10.259 She could see me and the players. 00:36:11.219 --> 00:36:15.569 She would eat lunch with me every day because, uh, that way I would have to 00:36:15.569 --> 00:36:19.259 get out of the office and we could sit and visit on things we needed to do. 00:36:20.249 --> 00:36:24.119 And then she, she did not care about athletics, but she started 00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:27.989 playing golf because I played golf and she wanted to play with me. 00:36:30.179 --> 00:36:34.799 I felt like that she has a, a great perspective away from 00:36:34.799 --> 00:36:37.439 football about people and life. 00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:40.829 So she would go sit. 00:36:40.829 --> 00:36:44.009 If you were struggling, I'd say Go, go find out what's wrong with Sam. 00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:50.219 Sam's got his head down and she would, she, she'd say, you sit down with a guy 00:36:50.219 --> 00:36:51.839 and he's eating, he'll spill his guts. 00:36:52.529 --> 00:36:54.269 Uh, 'cause he'll, he'll say anything. 00:36:54.269 --> 00:36:58.559 So Sally would come back with information or then she'd come in and say, well 00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:02.009 this player doesn't have enough money for his insurance on his car. 00:37:02.009 --> 00:37:05.159 I said, he just bought a Range Rover, so don't talk to me about 00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:06.239 he don't have enough money. 00:37:06.704 --> 00:37:14.714 Um, so, uh, Sally has been a vital part of, of our, our team, our family, our 00:37:14.714 --> 00:37:22.064 wins, and, um, I mean, she, she was so passionate with Tylee through the whole I. 00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:29.729 The, the entire sickness of two and a half years that that family became 00:37:29.729 --> 00:37:31.529 a member of our family or vice versa. 00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:39.059 and and it, it, um, um, it's really hard emotionally, you, the older you get when 00:37:39.059 --> 00:37:43.859 you lose a game, you hate it more for the players 'cause they're working so hard. 00:37:43.859 --> 00:37:45.719 And especially one that dropped a pass or. 00:37:46.469 --> 00:37:48.779 Or fumble the ball or miss the tackle. 00:37:49.139 --> 00:37:54.299 Um, you hate it so much for them that it, it, uh, it makes it more difficult 00:37:54.299 --> 00:38:00.269 to coach because you are emotionally invested in every player that you have. 00:38:00.809 --> 00:38:04.649 And the other thing I hated Cliff and Sam is that you, when you've got 00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:10.979 120 players and only 11 can play, everybody's working hard and some 00:38:10.979 --> 00:38:13.769 have more talent than others, but some just aren't gonna get to play. 00:38:14.789 --> 00:38:16.469 And I hated that for them. 00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:21.719 Uh, the other thing, I hated it if one of 'em got in trouble because it 00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:25.169 changed the course of his life and he was young enough, he probably didn't 00:38:25.169 --> 00:38:28.709 realize that, but that would be on his record for the rest of his life. 00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:32.639 And the third thing is, uh, I got hurt a lot. 00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:37.529 I had two knee operations, so, uh, I hate it when a guy got hurt because 00:38:37.529 --> 00:38:39.419 I could see that just took him. 00:38:40.214 --> 00:38:44.024 That just took him right, right out of a, a place to be and have success and 00:38:44.024 --> 00:38:48.314 have a chance to, um, have his dream and his life, and it changed his dream. 00:38:48.314 --> 00:38:50.144 So those were things that were important to me. 00:38:53.574 --> 00:38:56.604 Clif Marshall: Coach Brown, I gotta ask you, you've spent your entire life. 00:38:57.779 --> 00:38:58.259 Football. 00:38:58.619 --> 00:38:58.889 Right. 00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:01.499 And you've coached, as you said, for 36 seasons. 00:39:02.759 --> 00:39:04.649 does the next chapter look like for you? 00:39:05.969 --> 00:39:10.229 Mack Brown: Next chapter for me is, uh, you, you don't retire, you rewire 00:39:11.189 --> 00:39:13.499 and you reinvent yourself every year. 00:39:13.499 --> 00:39:15.989 So I love the game of football. 00:39:15.989 --> 00:39:18.404 The coaches that coach it and the players that play it. 00:39:19.364 --> 00:39:24.014 So I'm gonna stay involved in, in somehow, I'm not sure what, um, 00:39:24.554 --> 00:39:26.144 I'm probably going to do a podcast. 00:39:26.144 --> 00:39:29.414 Vince and I are talking about doing one about Texas football, past and 00:39:29.414 --> 00:39:31.454 present, which will be a little crazy. 00:39:31.454 --> 00:39:32.924 Sam, you know how my man is? 00:39:32.924 --> 00:39:33.104 He? 00:39:33.104 --> 00:39:35.714 He'll, he'll, he'll, he'll, he'll be out there. 00:39:35.714 --> 00:39:37.514 So I, I love Vince. 00:39:37.844 --> 00:39:40.604 Um, and I'm, I'm speaking a lot. 00:39:40.604 --> 00:39:41.774 I'm traveling a lot. 00:39:42.314 --> 00:39:48.254 Um, I'm getting in better shape when you're, I'll be 74 in August, so I. 00:39:48.644 --> 00:39:51.344 Uh, I wanna be around these grandkids, so I, I don't want to 00:39:51.464 --> 00:39:55.214 get outta shape where I can't play with them and be involved with them. 00:39:55.214 --> 00:40:00.854 So, um, I'm having a, uh, you, you have to reinvent yourself every year. 00:40:00.854 --> 00:40:05.264 Anyway, cliff, and I'm having a lot of fun doing that, trying to figure out, 00:40:05.324 --> 00:40:10.304 um, I'm not a person that, that can get up every day and not have a purpose. 00:40:10.874 --> 00:40:16.539 So Sally and I, we have a, a charity that's been, uh, blessed, uh, by, by. 00:40:17.489 --> 00:40:20.639 So many people in Austin that that's made a lot of money to give 00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:24.929 back, to empower kids that need it in, in a lot of different areas. 00:40:24.929 --> 00:40:26.909 They've changed some lives and saved some lives. 00:40:26.909 --> 00:40:29.879 So that's, that's really a blessing for us. 00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:34.529 But I also want to give back to younger coaches, like the older guys did to me. 00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:38.669 So I'm available when they need something or call me or text 00:40:38.669 --> 00:40:40.409 me and they need some help. 00:40:40.409 --> 00:40:41.669 I'm, I'm there for them. 00:40:41.669 --> 00:40:44.309 So, um, I, I think there's a. 00:40:44.879 --> 00:40:48.779 Uh, there's a lot of fun things for me to do out there, and I've just gotta 00:40:48.779 --> 00:40:50.609 figure out which ones I want to do. 00:40:50.609 --> 00:40:54.569 And I, I do understand this is the 20th anniversary of the National 00:40:54.569 --> 00:40:58.559 Championship game and all those guys have a podcast, a lunch. 00:40:58.559 --> 00:40:59.189 A dinner. 00:40:59.189 --> 00:41:03.239 Uh, so I've been doing a whole lot of that, and I'm not gonna tell, 00:41:03.359 --> 00:41:05.069 I'm not gonna tell Sam no ever. 00:41:05.414 --> 00:41:08.144 So I'm not going to tell these guys No, for sure. 00:41:08.594 --> 00:41:12.014 But there's so many other people that are asking me to speak. 00:41:12.044 --> 00:41:16.724 We, we've determined that I need to get 19 different ways, nice ways to 00:41:16.724 --> 00:41:19.064 say no, because I can't do it all. 00:41:19.064 --> 00:41:21.374 So I gotta, I gotta figure out some notes. 00:41:22.984 --> 00:41:28.559 Sam Acho: Oh, I want to go back, uh, just to two quick things. 00:41:30.359 --> 00:41:31.439 When, when we played. 00:41:32.339 --> 00:41:35.789 When I was a player for you, there was a couple things that stood out to me. 00:41:35.789 --> 00:41:41.069 We, one of 'em is we, we'd play rice and you'd have us eat rice before 00:41:41.069 --> 00:41:42.119 the game, not just any kind of rice. 00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:45.629 It'd be like food, uh, food coloring, like blue rice. 00:41:45.659 --> 00:41:50.729 Before the game you'd have, uh, in the locker room before every game, you'd 00:41:50.729 --> 00:41:53.069 have the fight song of the opposing team. 00:41:53.384 --> 00:41:54.914 Going nonstop. 00:41:54.914 --> 00:41:58.034 I mean, like, it was, I still remember, I could still tell you 00:41:58.034 --> 00:42:01.304 the, the a and m fight song to this day because it was just nonstop. 00:42:02.564 --> 00:42:07.994 Uh, you before one of our games, maybe freshman, sophomore year back 00:42:07.994 --> 00:42:10.424 when like the Soldier Voice song was popular, you know, we have these team 00:42:10.424 --> 00:42:13.304 meetings, clip, you know, you were a team meeting, whatever, coach Brown, like 00:42:13.304 --> 00:42:17.624 the, the, the, you know, well-respected coach Brown walks into the meeting 00:42:17.624 --> 00:42:19.214 room and doing the Soldier Boy dance. 00:42:22.019 --> 00:42:28.589 Where did you, like, where did you learn how to motivate 00:42:29.144 --> 00:42:29.564 people? 00:42:31.784 --> 00:42:33.854 Mack Brown: I think Sam, it was from my grandfather. 00:42:33.854 --> 00:42:38.504 But, but again, you've got to, if guys are uptight, you gotta relax 'em. 00:42:39.489 --> 00:42:41.264 If they're flat, you gotta stir 'em up. 00:42:42.314 --> 00:42:46.454 Um, but if they're, if when things are bad, you gotta pick 'em up. 00:42:47.534 --> 00:42:48.344 You gotta pick 'em up. 00:42:48.344 --> 00:42:52.184 So you had to have some fun and, and, uh, college football's hard. 00:42:52.694 --> 00:42:55.994 People do not realize that you were like an Olympian. 00:42:56.444 --> 00:42:58.784 You worked every day and you had to. 00:42:59.174 --> 00:43:00.494 You had to eat right? 00:43:00.494 --> 00:43:02.444 You had to sleep, you had to lift weights. 00:43:02.714 --> 00:43:06.824 You didn't have the normal life of a college student, so 00:43:06.824 --> 00:43:08.084 we had to add some fun to it. 00:43:08.144 --> 00:43:12.104 Now, when I did the Soldier Boy dance, we got down 35 to 14 to Oklahoma 00:43:12.104 --> 00:43:13.994 State starting the fourth quarter. 00:43:13.994 --> 00:43:16.034 So I said, I'll never do that again. 00:43:16.514 --> 00:43:20.834 That obviously didn't do well, but we came back and won the game 38, 35. 00:43:20.834 --> 00:43:28.334 So it, it was okay, but, um, you all also needed to see me and, and Sally as people. 00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:32.969 You needed to see our coaches as, as fathers and husbands, and you 00:43:32.969 --> 00:43:37.739 need to see us be normal and, and if, uh, I had to be the bad guy. 00:43:37.739 --> 00:43:42.209 So if I was the guy that said, no, no, no, you can't do this, you can't do that. 00:43:42.209 --> 00:43:43.739 You can't have lunch with an agent. 00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:46.499 You, you can't be out at night, you can't do this. 00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:49.469 Then all you hear from me are negatives. 00:43:50.309 --> 00:43:52.529 So I had to show a, a fun side. 00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:54.509 'cause there, there's a fun side there. 00:43:54.869 --> 00:43:58.829 And I always ask the coaches to treat their players like they would want their 00:43:58.829 --> 00:44:00.299 son or their daughter to be treated. 00:44:01.769 --> 00:44:03.359 And I said, if you do that, we're good. 00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:07.679 And then if they would yell at you and in a, in a demeaning way, I said, 00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:08.909 you want your son to be yelled at? 00:44:10.259 --> 00:44:10.559 No. 00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:12.179 Well, I said cut it then. 00:44:13.229 --> 00:44:16.109 Just don't do it because that's, that's an important part of this. 00:44:16.109 --> 00:44:21.089 So, um, I, I think that's the, I'm a smart Eck, you know that Sam, I love 00:44:21.089 --> 00:44:25.859 cutting up, um, uh, I'm a smart Eck with my friends and they know I'm a 00:44:25.859 --> 00:44:30.119 smart Eck, so that doesn't hurt their feelings when I, I say, uh, something 00:44:30.119 --> 00:44:31.949 cute to you, you know, I'm cutting up. 00:44:32.609 --> 00:44:37.859 Um, but I, I'm, um, I'm I'm probably too cautious with the media. 00:44:38.744 --> 00:44:41.324 Because that's, you have to be careful what you say. 00:44:41.354 --> 00:44:45.344 'cause when you cut up there, it becomes something bigger than it is. 00:44:45.374 --> 00:44:47.744 I'd get home, Sally would say, did you say that? 00:44:47.894 --> 00:44:48.314 I'd say, yeah. 00:44:48.314 --> 00:44:48.974 I was cutting up. 00:44:48.974 --> 00:44:50.414 She said, well, they missed that part. 00:44:50.924 --> 00:44:56.234 Uh, so I, I think that that's, but it was fun for me to be me with 00:44:56.234 --> 00:44:58.634 you guys and, and that was fun. 00:45:02.714 --> 00:45:07.334 Clif Marshall: Coach Brown, I gotta ask you, uh, you didn't coach just one Acho, 00:45:07.634 --> 00:45:11.084 you coached two achos on the same team? 00:45:11.654 --> 00:45:14.774 I gotta know, what was it like coaching two brothers? 00:45:16.094 --> 00:45:17.234 Mack Brown: It was a lot of fun. 00:45:17.234 --> 00:45:21.794 Even though they're very unique, they're very different in who they are. 00:45:21.884 --> 00:45:26.204 I've got, uh, I lost one younger brother, but I've got older and younger 00:45:26.204 --> 00:45:27.854 brothers and we were all so different. 00:45:28.574 --> 00:45:32.264 Um, so I never really even thought about the two being brothers. 00:45:33.059 --> 00:45:35.099 Because they were just uniquely different. 00:45:35.099 --> 00:45:39.059 So I, I took them as individuals, but it was fun because they, they 00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:40.229 were gonna do what was right. 00:45:40.859 --> 00:45:44.789 Um, Sam was gonna have opinions and talk to you about it. 00:45:44.789 --> 00:45:46.409 Emmanuel was gonna tell you what they were. 00:45:46.829 --> 00:45:48.209 You didn't have to wait and ask. 00:45:48.294 --> 00:45:50.819 He, he, he would say, I don't agree with that. 00:45:51.029 --> 00:45:52.499 Sam would say, can we visit? 00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:56.459 I mean, so there, there's, there's differences in their, in their 00:45:56.459 --> 00:46:01.439 personalities, but they both were really unique and wonderful in, in who they are. 00:46:01.439 --> 00:46:06.389 And, and, um, cliff, what I've learned is my life is better because I coached 00:46:06.389 --> 00:46:11.309 both of them and because the achos are in my life, and that's what they, 00:46:11.309 --> 00:46:13.499 they've gone back and built a hospital. 00:46:15.359 --> 00:46:22.019 And, and I will say I, I coached a lot of Nigerian and young men, and every one of 00:46:22.019 --> 00:46:30.269 'em was well taught, smart, driven, um, uh, there, there was no screwing around. 00:46:30.269 --> 00:46:32.219 They were really serious about their lives. 00:46:32.534 --> 00:46:36.974 And, and that's something every time I would see a a, a Nigerian player, I said, 00:46:36.974 --> 00:46:39.764 okay man, let's go, let's go get him. 00:46:39.764 --> 00:46:41.594 'cause he is gonna act right and he's gonna do right. 00:46:41.594 --> 00:46:46.124 And like I said earlier about Sam, we knew that those players would 00:46:46.124 --> 00:46:50.054 improve because it was really, really important to their families that they 00:46:50.054 --> 00:46:51.644 showed pride and did what was right. 00:46:52.694 --> 00:46:54.974 We had Ebenezer ban at North Carolina. 00:46:54.974 --> 00:46:58.394 He was number one draft choice as a defensive end at at the Cowboys. 00:46:59.294 --> 00:47:04.604 Ebenezer's Dad would call me every Monday morning for four years and 00:47:04.604 --> 00:47:07.604 say, is he acting right, coach? 00:47:07.934 --> 00:47:09.554 Is he doing what he's supposed to do? 00:47:10.154 --> 00:47:11.864 Is he doing everything right in school? 00:47:12.014 --> 00:47:13.424 Never mentioned football. 00:47:14.054 --> 00:47:15.584 And I said, yes, sir, Dr. 00:47:16.364 --> 00:47:16.994 Dr. 00:47:16.994 --> 00:47:17.804 Uh, Eban. 00:47:17.804 --> 00:47:19.304 And, and I mean every Monday. 00:47:19.694 --> 00:47:22.604 So I would laugh with Ebenezer and he said, yeah, God, he wears 00:47:22.604 --> 00:47:24.134 me out, coach, but that's okay. 00:47:24.284 --> 00:47:26.144 That's, uh, he wants me to do well. 00:47:26.294 --> 00:47:27.824 And I said, well, you're, you're. 00:47:28.964 --> 00:47:29.894 Get the right answers. 00:47:32.024 --> 00:47:35.384 Sam Acho: Well coach, uh, we're gonna let you go, but before we do, uh, 00:47:35.414 --> 00:47:38.714 cliff always ends our podcast with the, what we call the cliff notes, 00:47:38.714 --> 00:47:40.334 what he heard and learned from you. 00:47:40.874 --> 00:47:42.314 and and so he is gonna share that. 00:47:42.314 --> 00:47:45.164 And then I want to, we're gonna allow you to have, uh, have the last words. 00:47:45.164 --> 00:47:50.024 So Cliff, what's the cliff note that you've learned and heard from Coach Brown? 00:47:51.514 --> 00:47:53.939 Clif Marshall: Well, I think Pastor Billy Graham once said, 00:47:53.939 --> 00:47:55.469 a coach will impact more people. 00:47:56.099 --> 00:48:00.149 In one year than most people will in a lifetime. 00:48:00.389 --> 00:48:04.559 And Coach Brown, obviously what I said earlier in the show, my Clif note 00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:07.439 is a good coach can change a game. 00:48:07.919 --> 00:48:10.079 A great coach can change a life. 00:48:10.109 --> 00:48:15.149 And I know you changed Sam Acho's life and many, many others over 00:48:15.149 --> 00:48:18.269 the last 36 years, so I salute you. 00:48:18.419 --> 00:48:20.939 Obviously you've won championships. 00:48:21.419 --> 00:48:26.699 Um, at both, uh, Texas throughout your, your time there, but what's 00:48:26.699 --> 00:48:29.519 most impressive to me about you, coach Brown, is the impact that you've 00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:31.259 had on the lives of your athletes. 00:48:31.949 --> 00:48:34.589 Mack Brown: Thank you, Clif I, I don't like Sam. 00:48:34.589 --> 00:48:36.329 I love Sam and 00:48:36.329 --> 00:48:40.499 that, uh, the, the, the players in my life, uh. 00:48:41.309 --> 00:48:44.699 are the reason that I've coached and I look back and people 00:48:44.699 --> 00:48:46.229 say, what, what's your legacy? 00:48:46.229 --> 00:48:46.919 My legacy? 00:48:46.919 --> 00:48:52.229 I want it to be that I, I did help, uh, change a life, maybe save a life. 00:48:52.709 --> 00:48:56.759 And that these guys, when they send me their pictures of their family and, 00:48:57.329 --> 00:49:01.769 and at Thanksgiving and Father's Day, it's so fun, uh, just to see them. 00:49:01.769 --> 00:49:04.649 And, and when I quit coaching, it was unbelievable how many 00:49:04.649 --> 00:49:08.189 of the guys reached out and I'd want to cry reading their text. 00:49:08.189 --> 00:49:09.629 I'd say, ah, quit that. 00:49:09.914 --> 00:49:11.144 I don't wanna hear all that mess. 00:49:11.144 --> 00:49:13.244 You, you guys are being too nice. 00:49:13.244 --> 00:49:16.904 But I've been so blessed and, and I've been blessed because 00:49:16.904 --> 00:49:18.464 of the Sam Achos of the world. 00:49:19.034 --> 00:49:23.864 And when you can take that many guys, uh, in your life that 00:49:23.864 --> 00:49:26.564 matter, that is very, very unusual. 00:49:26.564 --> 00:49:27.344 And I can do that. 00:49:27.434 --> 00:49:28.604 I'll, I'll close with this. 00:49:28.604 --> 00:49:29.924 Coach Royal got dementia. 00:49:30.764 --> 00:49:34.454 He went in a, um, in a home and I would go see him. 00:49:34.454 --> 00:49:37.124 He didn't remember that the stadium was named after him. 00:49:37.124 --> 00:49:39.584 He didn't remember that he had three national championships. 00:49:39.584 --> 00:49:43.274 He didn't remember how many games he won, but when I was in there 00:49:43.274 --> 00:49:47.624 seeing him, he knew every ex player's name that walked in that room. 00:49:48.494 --> 00:49:52.064 And that told me that a coach's life is not about trophies. 00:49:52.094 --> 00:49:53.204 It's not about money. 00:49:53.714 --> 00:49:55.544 You can't be buried with all those things. 00:49:55.544 --> 00:49:56.804 It's about relationships. 00:49:56.804 --> 00:49:58.664 And that's kind of what we started the show with. 00:49:58.664 --> 00:49:59.834 And that's what I thought about. 00:49:59.834 --> 00:50:07.484 So to me, the importance of my life is the relationship that I have with these guys. 00:50:07.844 --> 00:50:08.774 And, and that's it. 00:50:09.044 --> 00:50:13.184 That, that's that, that's what I've gotten outta coaching and that's 00:50:13.184 --> 00:50:14.714 what I'll take to my grave with me. 00:50:16.244 --> 00:50:16.394 Sam Acho: Mm. 00:50:17.474 --> 00:50:22.904 Well, coach, uh, the Bible talks about giving honor to whom honor is due. 00:50:23.534 --> 00:50:28.274 Um, and I know I'm not the only one who's giving you honor, everywhere you've been 00:50:28.964 --> 00:50:33.014 and everywhere you're going, at least on this earth and in the life to come. 00:50:33.614 --> 00:50:36.254 Um, you will continue to get honor. 00:50:37.739 --> 00:50:45.419 You've sown so well into so many people's lives in ways that people don't even know 00:50:45.419 --> 00:50:52.109 about, and my hope and my prayer is that, as you said, you'll be 74 in August as you 00:50:52.109 --> 00:50:55.034 continue to, to, um, age like fine wine. 00:50:56.069 --> 00:51:00.629 You would reap the fruit of all those people who you've sewn into coach. 00:51:00.629 --> 00:51:03.629 I mean, I ran into a guy last couple weeks ago at the UFL. 00:51:03.869 --> 00:51:06.299 He's like, oh, coach Brown coach me at at North Carolina. 00:51:06.359 --> 00:51:06.659 Oh man. 00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:07.379 Take a picture. 00:51:07.529 --> 00:51:07.709 You know? 00:51:07.709 --> 00:51:09.779 And, and, and then like, and then we were texting about him. 00:51:09.779 --> 00:51:11.639 He was texting about it, right? 00:51:11.729 --> 00:51:13.979 We talk about the Vince Youngs of the word, we talk about the trophies. 00:51:13.979 --> 00:51:16.889 Like I got tr like I'm at ESPN because I went to Texas. 00:51:18.029 --> 00:51:18.929 If I'm just being honest. 00:51:19.349 --> 00:51:20.159 You recruited me. 00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:21.149 We had success, right? 00:51:21.149 --> 00:51:24.479 Went to national championship and like behind me is trophies, it's helmets 00:51:24.479 --> 00:51:25.919 and stuff like it's 'cause of you. 00:51:26.849 --> 00:51:29.399 And so coach people talk about giving flowers. 00:51:29.399 --> 00:51:34.589 I just want to give you honor and say thank you for investing, not just in 00:51:34.589 --> 00:51:36.959 me, but in you and into your purpose. 00:51:36.959 --> 00:51:39.419 Thank you for not saying I'm gonna go to the NFL 'cause there's more money or more. 00:51:39.419 --> 00:51:40.799 This who said, no, I know who I am. 00:51:41.429 --> 00:51:45.239 I know what I'm here for, and I know why I'm on this earth. 00:51:46.574 --> 00:51:48.044 Coach Brown, I appreciate you. 00:51:48.044 --> 00:51:48.734 I salute you. 00:51:48.734 --> 00:51:49.514 I honor you. 00:51:49.514 --> 00:51:50.414 I thank you. 00:51:50.834 --> 00:51:54.464 Um, and I do want to end the podcast, but if you want any last 00:51:54.464 --> 00:51:55.739 words, you're free to share 'em. 00:51:57.434 --> 00:51:59.414 Mack Brown: Well, thank, thank you, Sam. 00:51:59.444 --> 00:52:02.984 Uh, let me say that, uh, uh, I love you. 00:52:04.064 --> 00:52:09.314 I love your, your brother, your family, and um, I'm just so blessed. 00:52:10.139 --> 00:52:14.639 And you said you're at ESPN because of Texas and all those trophies behind you. 00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:16.859 Well, I'm in the Hall of Fame 'cause of you and your brother 00:52:16.859 --> 00:52:18.059 and a lot of guys like you. 00:52:18.059 --> 00:52:23.549 So, uh, every time somebody introduces me as a Hall of famer, I said, yeah. 00:52:23.609 --> 00:52:28.019 And all the players that played for me and all the coaches that coached with me, man, 00:52:28.499 --> 00:52:30.419 we're, we're all in this thing together. 00:52:30.839 --> 00:52:36.239 And, um, it, it's, uh, it, it's just been a, a wonderful run. 00:52:36.794 --> 00:52:39.254 And, um, I'm so excited in college football. 00:52:39.254 --> 00:52:40.424 Let me, let me close with this. 00:52:40.424 --> 00:52:41.804 College football's gonna be okay. 00:52:42.314 --> 00:52:43.724 I'm glad the players are getting paid. 00:52:43.784 --> 00:52:47.564 They'd have paid you all but have given you 150,000 and an annuity on the way 00:52:47.564 --> 00:52:52.784 out after graduating as a reward, we wouldn't even be here, but they waited 00:52:52.784 --> 00:52:56.474 way too long to take care of the players and the parents of the players. 00:52:57.599 --> 00:53:01.919 So now the consequences are, we're in, we're in deep and we're 00:53:01.919 --> 00:53:03.509 in trouble, and we're in chaos. 00:53:03.749 --> 00:53:05.489 But the game's still wonderful. 00:53:05.489 --> 00:53:07.679 The players that are playing it are still wonderful. 00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:08.999 They didn't ask for all this money. 00:53:10.109 --> 00:53:10.979 They didn't ask for it. 00:53:11.009 --> 00:53:14.189 Now, if it's out there, people are human, they're gonna ask. 00:53:14.594 --> 00:53:17.474 And they're gonna want money, but it'll all get settled down. 00:53:17.474 --> 00:53:19.904 We'll have a lot of smart people get in a room, they'll figure it out. 00:53:20.294 --> 00:53:27.164 But we need to keep having the influence in, in lives like we had 00:53:27.164 --> 00:53:32.774 at Texas, across the country and, and making sure that the, the, Cliffs and 00:53:32.774 --> 00:53:38.054 the Sam, um, you guys have influence on people's lives moving forward. 00:53:38.234 --> 00:53:39.554 And that's really, really important. 00:53:39.614 --> 00:53:41.204 And thank you guys for having me on. 00:53:42.914 --> 00:53:46.644 Sam Acho: Thank you on behalf of Hall of Fame coach and my coach, Mack 00:53:46.664 --> 00:53:49.614 Brown, cliff Marshall, I'm Sam Mackho. 00:53:49.614 --> 00:53:51.274 This is the Sam Mackho Podcast. 00:53:51.614 --> 00:53:52.854 Go to sam Mackho.com 00:53:52.874 --> 00:53:55.484 to find out not only about this episode, but also all the 00:53:55.484 --> 00:53:57.254 episodes coming moving forward. 00:53:57.734 --> 00:53:58.874 Thank You'all and see you soon.