The Shrink Down (00:01.01) Welcome back to The Shrinkdown. You've probably seen or heard about the recent passing of two well-known entertainers. Actor James Van Der Beek, who's best known for his portrayal as Dawson Leary in the teen drama Dawson's Creek. He died at 48 after a battle of cancer. And then also even more recently, Eric Dane, best known for his role as Dr. McSteamy in the medical drama Grey's Anatomy. He was also on HBO's Euphoria, which I haven't watched, but it sounds like his role was really good. and that as well, and he passed away at 53 following complications from ALS. So even if we didn't know them personally, their passing can stir strong emotions in us, making us think about our own lives, recall our favorite shows, times in our lives, or even feel connected to them in some way. So today we're exploring those feelings. Why do we grieve people we don't actually know, what that says about connection empathy, and why those emotions are meaningful? So before we get into today's discussion, Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (00:34.637) you Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (00:40.974) you The Shrink Down (00:57.478) Let's do our four minute faves. Who wants to start? Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (01:01.986) I can go. My four minute favorite, I actually did something new this week. I watched a new show and that as for anybody that knows me, it takes me a while to get through some new things. So this was like a really good one. I started Love Story, the JFK Jr. Carolyn Bassett. think it's, actually Love Story is like a thing that Ryan Murphy does. And so this one is, I don't know if this is the first one, but it's just like he does American Horror Story. The Shrink Down (01:02.823) Okay. Wilhelmina (01:29.351) Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (01:30.796) So they have it like love story colon, right? Carolyn Bassett and JFK Jr. So my assumption is he's gonna do more if this goes well. Yeah, potentially it's on FX and Hulu. And as you can imagine, it goes through the love story of JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bassett. And for anybody that loves like that, know, any of the Kennedy history, the Royals, like all of those kinds of Camelot, you know, Wilhelmina (01:37.484) leaving it open for other couples. Yeah. The Shrink Down (01:39.713) Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (01:59.374) historical family drama, right? So this is probably the most recent one that you're gonna get with the Kennedys. And so it starts, actually it starts on the day that they died, but then it goes back through their relationship. It's just like the opening scene is that when they, that day. And so it goes, it's like in the nineties, set in the nineties, right? and so it's really so far so good. I haven't gotten, there's three episodes so far. I'm sure there'll be a fourth one by the time this episode airs. but, it's really good. It's fun. If you like any of that kind of lore, and it's not, there's little like Kelvin Klein and that bending, like some of that kind of stuff. I was reading that it's a very Google show, which like the idea of being like, you have your phone with you and you're Googling things as, and I like already found myself doing that. The Shrink Down (02:50.298) . Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (02:52.622) I was like, Annette Pending, just like Googling their relationship with, Carolyn Bissette. OK. So it's one of those where you can have your phone handy so that you can kind of look at all the fact checks and things like that. So it's a fun one. Teri (03:06.52) I would briefly piggyback on that. There are people still alive, obviously, who are very involved with JFK Junior and Carolyn Bissette, like Darryl Hannah was his longtime girlfriend. Michael Bergen, who was the Calvin Klein underwear model, was Carolyn Bissette's ex. I read his book called The Other Man, which is really good and does dive into her likely cheating or possibly cheating on him. He has detailed dates and accounts. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (03:08.993) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (03:13.539) yeah. Yep. Yep. The Shrink Down (03:20.819) Hmm. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (03:20.972) Yep. Yep. Okay? Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (03:32.225) yeah. yeah. Yep. Teri (03:36.252) So I think it's really interesting for something like this show to come out and stir the pot again for people who were around at that time. I remember I worked at a golf course driving range when their plane went down and every day I would come to work and turn on the news on the little TV at work to see if they had found the records yet. But there's still people around. The Shrink Down (03:42.758) Mm-hmm. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (03:49.038) Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think this is one of the first, oh yeah, because they weren't all that older from us. I mean, they were the generation above us, but it was 1999, I think. Wilhelmina (03:49.193) Mm-hmm. Yes, I remember it too. Teri (03:56.316) I've it. Yeah. Teri (04:03.962) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (04:04.32) And so we were 18. Like this was like our first, like as adults, probably people that, you felt like actually kind of the topic today, right? You felt like you had this connection, actually very interesting. You had this kind of connection to them and from everything that we had heard from our parents about they knew where they were when JFK died, right? Like all of that kind of stuff. This was, yeah, like you can put yourself right back into the, yeah, the early nineties when they met and all of those kinds of things. And remember some of the headlines. The Shrink Down (04:11.696) Yeah, I about to say that. Teri (04:14.531) you Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (04:33.152) of him failing his law school exam, like some of that kind of thing. And to Terry's point, yes, there's interviews coming out this week of people that were, you know, they do say right at the beginning, based on true events, and, you know, some scenes are fictionalized for drama. Like, so they say that, or are heightened for drama, something like that. But everything is like all of these events, all these people that were in their lives. many are still around. so it's a fun one if you like that kind of lore. Yeah. Teri (05:01.382) Yeah, I want them to come forward. Yeah, I want these people to come forward and share more, but you know, I know. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (05:09.848) So they won't. Wilhelmina (05:10.989) Well, read that one, Terry, read that one book, Come to the Edge, which was the friend, girlfriend of JFK Juniors, who had been like a childhood college. Yeah, yeah. And that one was interesting. I always think about that one. Yeah. Teri (05:22.426) his college, one of his college, college girl, college girlfriend or something. Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (05:25.006) You're hungry? You're hungry? Teri (05:28.764) That was good. Yeah, that was. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (05:30.136) Well, and his cousin's in it who was Carol Radzwell's husband that died, right? Like, so if you're a housewives person, Carol Radzwell, her husband is JFK Jr's cousin or was, and he passed away. So he's in it. there's, yeah, there's a lot of people that still are around. Teri (05:35.856) Mm-hmm. Teri (05:48.86) JFK Jr. was so handsome. Wilhelmina (05:51.115) He was, he really was. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (05:51.628) Very handsome. the actors that play her, so Caroline and JFK Jr. are gorgeous people. So it's just, it's aesthetically a pleasing show as well. If you just want to like look at pretty people. The Shrink Down (05:59.388) aesthetically. Wilhelmina (06:05.239) Well, some of the footage they like looks like it's like the news footage. And I was like, they're actually using footage. And then I'm like, no, that's the actors. Like that's how closely they have it matched up. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (06:08.959) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (06:12.83) Yeah, it's uncanny. Yeah, and it's nice that they used unknowns for the two of them because it's not as like Naomi Watts is Jacqueline, Jackie, and that's a little distracting at first because like, you know, it's Naomi Watts, right? So like, there's a little of that, but it's fun one. Wilhelmina, what about you? The Shrink Down (06:13.799) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (06:19.756) Yes. Wilhelmina (06:24.375) Yeah, Jackie. Teri (06:24.742) Jackie Kennedy, The Shrink Down (06:31.294) All right. Wilhelmina (06:37.709) Well, I went and joined the masses this weekend at the theaters to see Watering Heights. It was Valentine's Day. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (06:42.947) Yeah The Shrink Down (06:43.838) Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (06:46.882) gosh, was this Valentine's Day weekend? This past weekend? Yeah. Ooh, wow. Yeah. Teri (06:50.716) We took the boys to see Goat on Valentine's Day, most of the people were there for what you're going to say. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (06:54.2) Well, we went and saw that yesterday. Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (07:00.367) god, is that right? The Shrink Down (07:01.03) Yeah Wilhelmina (07:03.085) Well, what's really funny is actually we went, and I on Valentine's went to see that horror movie, Send Help. And we got to the theater. I know. We got to the theater and someone was in our seats. And I was like, I think you're in our seats. And the previews had already started. And it was like, I don't know, Scream, the new Scream movie is like showing. And this guy's like, no, this is my seats. And he pulls out his phone and he's in the wrong theater. He's supposed to be at Goat. The Shrink Down (07:10.622) Yes, so. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (07:11.128) So romantic. Wilhelmina (07:31.638) And like, all of a sudden he looks up at the screen, sees the horror movies. He's like, yep, gotta go. And he like picks up his kids, three kids, and goes out. I'm like, you would have figured that out pretty quickly. They even had like the restricted previews, like the red previews. Yeah. So I'm like, I think he probably would have figured out even if we hadn't shown up to take our seats. But the next day I went with a girlfriend to see Wuthering Heights. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (07:39.764) yeah. that would have been upsetting. Teri (07:43.802) Yes. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (07:48.029) jeez. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (07:53.183) Yeah, yeah, like what's happening right now? The Shrink Down (07:53.756) You Wilhelmina (08:01.325) and it was amazing. I know it has been, there's been mixed reviews of it. I tend to be biased because one, I think most of the reviewers, I've said this forever, are men. And so movies that are directed towards men, Star Wars movies, Marvel movies, all of those get like a bump up in reviews. And if it's a romance, there's always a drop down. so I take all of that with like a little bit of, I'm a little leery when I see kind of negative reviews about romances and such. but this is, the second thing is critics of the book are like, well, this isn't a true adaptation of Wuthering Heights. the director writer. First of all, I don't, I don't think most people actually remember Wuthering Heights because Teri (08:49.552) That'd be a snoozefest. It'd be boring, right? Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (08:53.634) I'm I don't, I read it but I don't remember it. Yeah. Wilhelmina (08:59.187) It is toxic. is. It's people being horrible to each other. It's revenge. It's generational trauma. There's no happy endings. Like it is, it is not like this, like love story that people. Yes. So Emerald Fennell has said, this is my adaptation of the first half of Wuthering Heights. so she really just plucked the Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (09:09.262) Ha You don't want it to be a, yeah. The Shrink Down (09:18.972) Yeah, I've read that. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (09:20.098) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (09:23.49) Okay. Wilhelmina (09:28.373) yearning and the romance and the childhood friendship of Katherine and Heathcliff that of course evolves into their romance. And then she expands it, adds more sex and tawdryness to it. And that's her vision of this movie. And it is for anyone who's seen Emerald Fennell's movies. So she did A Promising Young Woman, which was Oscar nominated. Then she did Saltburn. And then this is her third, I think it's her third motion picture. She was also involved in that TV show, Killing Eve, for anyone who watched that, I don't know. Her vision is very out of this world. she's, everything is like big costume sets. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (10:09.346) Mm-hmm. The Shrink Down (10:10.152) Mm. Wilhelmina (10:23.571) It's not like anything. It's not supposed to look like a Victorian novel. It's supposed to look like its own thing. So the houses are kind of characters, the sets. It's a beautiful film. I encourage anyone, if you're interested, to see it in the theater because it is the sweeping, the moors, all of that. It's visually beautiful. The soundtrack, which is Charlie XCX. So she does the full soundtrack is The Shrink Down (10:49.534) yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (10:49.614) Mm. Teri (10:49.948) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (10:52.779) I've been listening to it nonstop. It's really, really good. She has these strings with the lyrics, which are capturing sort of the yearning and the grief and the love of Wuthering Heights and is very, very good. And finally, Margot Robbie and Jacob Elordi. wow. Yeah, they have very good chemistry. They are beautiful. They... Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (11:15.209) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (11:21.217) do a great job of capturing this love and this yearning. And in the end, I like this Wuthering Heights more than the book because the book is really about toxic people, lots of revenge, lots of hatred. It's not the romantic novel people think it is when they say like, I love Wuthering Heights and they're Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (11:32.302) There you go. Wilhelmina (11:50.766) Catherine and Heathcliff, that's not actually what Wuthering Heights is, but that is what this movie is. So if you want that version, go out and see it. It's very good. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (11:56.171) Okay. The Shrink Down (12:00.584) So you mentioned that it's based off the first half. So is there actually like an ending to it? Or is there going to be a part two? There's an OK. Curious. Wilhelmina (12:07.341) No, because I think this is her imagining of it. if you don't want the second half, the second half is filled with lots of, that's a lot where the revenge comes in and all of that. So this, doesn't need to be a second half. This is a full and complete, it feels more like a Shakespearean sort of one of Shakespeare's tragedies is what it feels like. It's sort of this like. The Shrink Down (12:20.03) Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Teri (12:21.852) you Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (12:33.622) Okay. Wilhelmina (12:34.549) romance and then you get miscommunications which lead to actions the things that are less not said which lead to people doing things they're like wait if I'd known like back and forth so yeah very good Terry, what about you? Teri (12:52.484) Mine is music. So there is a rapper named Connor Price. Have you heard of him? So my oldest has inherited my affinity for lyrical hip hop and rap artists that I've always liked and listened to. He actually introduced me to him. He's fantastic. He's from Canada. He's Canadian. He does a lot of songs with another rapper named Nick D. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (13:01.548) Mm-mm. Wilhelmina (13:01.645) Thank Teri (13:22.266) and I see Dee, but his name is Connor Price. The lyrics are all clean, which is a big benefit, real good beats. And so if you're looking to check out a new artist and something that your kids might like, I would recommend Connor Price. The Shrink Down (13:43.775) That makes me think of you had, you I think told us all about Jack Harlow, who's like that you like. And yeah. And so, I told you guys last, last episode that like, we've been listening to like K-pop kind of music ever since we watched K-pop Demon Hunter. So Jack Harlow does a song with this Korean pop star. It's actually really good. And I thought of you the other day when I heard it and I was like, that's Jack Harlow. He's rapping on it. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (13:49.309) yeah. Teri (13:49.412) Yes, years ago. Yeah. Teri (14:05.98) yeah, he's really good. yeah. So Connor Price, I would check it out. My oldest has it on his basketball playing Spotify remix. and yeah, it's good. How about you, Vanessa? Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (14:06.776) Very cool. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (14:20.269) Awesome. The Shrink Down (14:22.248) So I was going to share my favorite pajama pants. And now I'm sad because I can't share them because they stopped making them. They were at Target. So can't share those with you. I'm glad now that I bought three pairs. So that's just a reminder to everyone if you find something you really love, a couple of them. So I am going to share something I just bought, but I really, really love it. So I am really bad about cleaning my makeup brushes, like so bad. And I know that. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (14:49.523) same. Yeah. The Shrink Down (14:51.11) It's bad, it's really bad. recently, no, not recently, but in October, we dressed up for Halloween and I was Alphaba. And so I had to put on green face paint and I used a bunch of my brushes and they've just been sitting there green, haven't been able to use them. And I was at the, yeah, yeah. So I was at the store the other day and I saw this cleaner, it's by it. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (15:07.169) no. The Shrink Down (15:16.616) cosmetics, I've shared a couple things that I use from them. Like I use their under eye concealer and like the just foundation. And so it's a brush bath. So it's an instant brush cleaner. So you just spray it on the brush. And then you basically just like wipe the brush down. So you don't actually even like wash it. I mean, you probably should still wash it at some point. But it was great because I needed to use my brush and it was green. And so I just sprayed it on there. And then I actually used Lauren those face wipes that you Yes, so Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (15:18.669) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (15:42.583) Yeah. The Shrink Down (15:45.053) I've said before that I really like those and I use them to dry off the counter. But they were great for the brushes because they're said you should just rub the brush off. So you just spray the brush and then you just rub it on the cloth. And it worked out really well because then I just threw the cloth away. And it has a good smell to it. So this is my new one. So I got it at Ulta, but they have it at Target. You can buy it directly from them too. But that's just a nice way to your brush really quickly and get the gunk off. And then after the green layer came off, like, Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (15:46.583) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (15:52.526) That's good idea. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:00.974) Very cool. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:07.598) Great idea. The Shrink Down (16:12.37) the brown layer from my foundation came off. So this is just a reminder to wash your makeup brushes and if you're lazy, get a spray like this so that you can wash it quickly. Teri (16:15.735) you Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:17.358) Yes. Wilhelmina (16:24.351) It's so gross when you like do that and you like wash it under the water and you see all of the layers come off. You're like, I was just putting that on my face every day. That's gross. The Shrink Down (16:29.47) yeah. Yeah. And I know it's like you think, well, it's just the same thing I'm putting on your face, but like you're, have oil on your face and there's like, they talk about like germs on stuff that makes you break out. So yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:30.669) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:39.426) Yeah. Yeah. Teri (16:43.844) I'm gonna clean my brushes this weekend after we just talked about this. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:48.202) Yeah, I know. Talk about something I don't do enough. Yeah. Wilhelmina (16:48.257) Yeah. I mean, I do it like I... Teri (16:52.302) years. I'm talking years. Sometimes never. The Shrink Down (16:52.59) Yeah, mean I literally yes, yes. I just throw it away. I'm like, I just buy a new one at this point. Just buy a new one. There's no coming back. So but yes, it's called Brush Bath from It Cosmetics. Wilhelmina (16:52.887) I know. yeah, I go years. Sometimes I'll just throw it away. Teri (17:00.188) Same. No. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (17:01.354) Yeah, yeah. No, I know. Wilhelmina (17:01.837) There's no coming back from this. The Shrink Down (17:12.68) All right, well, now that we've shared our faves, let's get into today's conversation. I'm gonna pass it over actually to Wilhelmina since Wilhelmina brought the topic to us and she had a lot of really good thoughts and insights on this topic. So Wilhelmina, why don't you start us off? Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (17:12.93) Very cool. Teri (17:13.148) Okay, good. Wilhelmina (17:27.223) Well, when I got the text from Terry actually that James Van Der Beek had died, did I tell you guys the story of where I was? I was at Owen's colonoscopy, ironically. Okay? I did not. So I'm at Owen's, he's back there getting his stuff done. I am reading, I get Terry's text and I immediately... The Shrink Down (17:40.478) I don't think so. no, you did not tell us. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (17:40.567) No. you did not. Teri (17:45.9) Wilhelmina (17:56.662) my eyes started watering and I felt so sad and I couldn't stop it. It was sort of an uncontrollable reaction that I had. And in that moment, they called me back to say that he was done and I was like, God. So I'm trying to like, and I come in and he's all groggy and he sees my face and he can tell that's, and he's like. Did you already talk to the doctor? something for... And then I'd like... And I was like, no, this is... So I'm like, no, no, no. I said, James Van Der Beek just died. And he's like, And then he pauses all groggy. And he's like, wait, didn't he die of colorectal cancer? And I'm like, yes. And I'm like, yeah. I'm like, yeah. And he's like... The Shrink Down (18:25.118) Hahaha. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (18:27.825) my gosh. The Shrink Down (18:28.256) my gosh. Teri (18:28.463) in the iron Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (18:38.37) Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (18:44.594) shit. I wasn't even making that. The Shrink Down (18:45.319) Yeah. Teri (18:45.67) Yeah. Yeah. This is very ironic. Wilhelmina (18:50.989) no, is that a bad sign? The nurse behind him is dying at this interaction of like him thinking there's something wrong. so that kind of kicked off a little bit of amusement around a obviously a sad death. But over the next week, I was just contemplating on sort of like what. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (18:51.148) like that. The Shrink Down (18:55.998) You Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (18:57.572) my gosh. The Shrink Down (19:02.824) my gosh. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (19:06.011) my gosh. Wilhelmina (19:16.715) that show had meant to me, because I started watching it at the end of my senior year of high school. And then actually a lot of my friends that I met in college, we would get together on Thursdays and watch Dawson's Creek together and whatever else was on that night, the CW night. And we had been actually communicating on Facebook. And so it made me reflect on why do the death of celebrities? Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (19:29.218) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (19:42.814) feel sometimes more personal than like, well, I've never met this person. I don't know this person. But it feels more personal than that. And so I came across this Instagram post about that, that very thing, and sent it to you guys and said, why don't we talk about this? But they really talk about the parasocial bond that people have. And they were talking about how if you are watching a show, especially a week to week show and over the course of years. So I watched this show week to week over a five year period. I watched every episode. I watched it with friends. You actually, your brain doesn't know the difference between a real relationship with someone you're seeing once a week versus a relationship that you're having on screen. And so you do actually sort of develop this emotional bond that your brain doesn't know the difference between it. And so when a person, a celebrity dies who you had this relationship in quotes with, it's kind of a grief of two things. One, it's the grief of this like fictional, this relationship that your brain doesn't know the difference between real and not. But it's also the grief and the loss of like that time period of your life. So I kept thinking about college and my college friends and all of the different things. So it all of a sudden wasn't just about Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (20:52.366) Mm Yeah. Wilhelmina (21:07.137) James Vanderbeek, but it was about college days and that time that's gone and mourning sort of that loss of the time period in my life and whatnot. Teri (21:20.006) And I also think there's something, yeah, there's something to be said about reaching the age where the deaths of celebrities, musicians, these parasocial relationships, which is that term absolutely makes sense. When we're in the same age bracket and you look at people like James Van Der Beek and you think, he's got six, I think he had six kids, which is a lot. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (21:20.206) That's interesting. The Shrink Down (21:45.874) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (21:45.966) Yeah. Teri (21:47.228) The little ones are little and you're just thinking, oh my gosh, that could be a friend. That could be a neighbor. That could be a, one of my kids. Yeah, it could be me. It could be my husband. It could be my best friend. It could be, you know, it's, really think it, you know, death scene, death doesn't seem to death, death surrounding us increase exponentially as we age. And I remember having somebody say that to me. I think it was maybe a clinical supervisor that's at some point who said as we age, Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (21:49.795) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (21:55.531) Me? Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (21:56.962) Yeah. Teri (22:16.056) everyone else in our circles also ages at the same time, right? So the older people in our orbit get older as we get older. And what the price that we sort of pay is that we experience significantly more loss every year we get older. It just becomes exponential. And I think that it makes us think about our own mortality and what that is like because I mean, The Shrink Down (22:20.016) Mm-hmm. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (22:21.922) Yeah. The Shrink Down (22:33.832) Mm-hmm. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (22:38.978) Yeah. Teri (22:42.842) I mean, how ironic is that that you're at your husband's colonoscopy when you get Wilhelmina (22:46.357) Right? The Shrink Down (22:46.766) you're supposed to get when you're in your start your 40s right they're like go get one yeah Wilhelmina (22:49.537) Yeah. 45, 45. Teri (22:50.3) Yep. Yep. So I definitely think it brings up our own mortality. I think it brings up just the reality of like, this death is very real. It's very permanent. And it's something that we're all going to face and at different varying levels. And then I also think what happens, at least what I've experienced is that, and then there's a lull, there's a quiet period, right? Where you don't have a lot of loss and then you have more losses again. And then there's a quiet period and then you have more losses. And during those quiet periods when a celebrity is one of the losses, when you have your own personal losses, but then in one of those quiet periods, it's a parasocial relationship. It sort of puts you in this weird in between where it's like, I didn't know them, but the loss still impacted me. The Shrink Down (23:37.311) And I think anytime you even, know, especially when someone passes away and when they're young, anytime you even, you know, come across an article, I feel like, and you hear a sad story about someone, I feel like that also makes you pause. So not just when you're watching like a celebrity on a show, but anytime I feel like you come across a story or, you know, someone tells you about someone that really makes you kind of stop and think about your own life and the people in your, in your close circle. you know, that sort of thing. Wilhelmina (23:49.346) Mm-hmm. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (24:05.182) Yeah, you can relate to it in a way that I think what Terry's well, it's like combining these these concepts, right? There's a parasocial relationship piece, but it's also the idea that as we're getting older, the the rates at which we're hearing about these deaths in our in our same generation in our same age circle is increasing. And then you can also relate to like what age and stage they're going through. And so even if it's not a celebrity, it's, you hear of a friend that's passed or, you know, we had a parent at our school that passed this year that is the exact same age as me. And it's like the idea of like, our kids are all the same age. And so you even if you weren't emotionally, physically close to the person, you relate in a way that I don't think we ever could. You relate in a deeper way. The Shrink Down (24:39.216) Mm-hmm. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (25:00.462) I don't remember people passing in our 20s, but they did. But it didn't feel, and I don't think I recall it feeling the same way. And I think because there's more things potentially that we connect with, with those people, like having kids. Like again, James Vanderbeek, didn't know, I didn't know him. And I wasn't even a really solid Dawson's Creek person either, but he was in our age range. Teri (25:04.752) Mm-hmm. The Shrink Down (25:13.8) Yeah. I think, yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (25:25.792) in living a life that was very similar to us at this point with the ages and ranges of his kids. And so there is that just like highlighting your own mortality that just makes it hit in a different way. The Shrink Down (25:37.715) Yeah, what you just said made me think of. when I was in college, my high school best friend, her dad passed away. And obviously I knew him, I know him like, hey, mister, whatever. But even in that context, I did not think about the fact that he was in his 40s at the time. Because I'm 18, 19 at the time. I'm not even thinking. Teri (25:38.566) Yeah. Wilhelmina (25:59.766) Mmm, yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (25:59.777) Yeah. Teri (26:03.547) Yeah. The Shrink Down (26:03.678) thinking of it from a very different perspective. Now that I kind of think back on it, I'm like, oh my gosh, he was so young. And I remember feeling bad. I remember thinking he was young. the way that I think of it now at 45, and now I'm a mom, and even though my friend was 18, that's still so young, that that loss looks very different to me now than it did at that time. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (26:07.512) Yep. Wilhelmina (26:09.303) You're so young. Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (26:21.762) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (26:26.792) my gosh. my goodness. 100%. Teri (26:28.744) Oh, sure. Well, I was thinking about as a topic, when we experience these parasocial losses, what do we do? Right? Like, what do we do with these feelings? Do we text our friends? Do we reminisce and watch the show again and revisit that? Do we try to shove it away and move on because facing our own mortality feels too heavy and deep and I don't have time for that, so I'll think about it later? You know, what do we do? Do we compartmentalize? Do we do a hybrid of all of the above? Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (26:52.759) Yeah. Teri (26:56.986) I was thinking about when Luke Perry died from 90210, who played Dylan, like Dylan and Brenda, like I could just, could do five episodes on them. And Shannon Doherty, yes. So she's gone too. And Young, so that's two, because I always remember thinking maybe, and it won't be as good obviously, but maybe they would do a reunion show or episode. And then once those actors and actresses pass away, that's it, you can't. Wilhelmina (27:00.021) Yes, yes. The Shrink Down (27:00.721) Mm-hmm. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (27:00.909) Yeah. Wilhelmina (27:03.959) enough The Shrink Down (27:04.03) Yeah. I know, Sheida too. Yeah, and Yang too. Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (27:04.078) Aww. And she's gone too. Yeah. Wilhelmina (27:09.357) You food? Wilhelmina (27:20.374) Right. The Shrink Down (27:21.843) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (27:23.351) They were gone. Teri (27:26.296) And when Luke Perry died, I did go back and watch the first season of 90210. And I was like, damn, what a good show. Just on many different levels, like the topics and the acting and the scene, just, you know, and I wasn't, it came out when I was, I don't know, in like fifth grade or something. And I remember not either being allowed to or not watching, or I couldn't stay up late enough, for whatever reason, I couldn't watch it in real time. And then I had to catch up and watch reruns. And I just fell in love when I was like in sixth grade. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (27:26.35) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (27:34.924) Yeah. Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (27:51.053) Mm-hmm. Teri (27:55.58) So I think of that like I that was helpful for me in watching going back and watching that but yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (27:55.811) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (28:03.095) Well, and I think that that's part of it is like is going back and kind of reliving what that show meant to you, what he meant to you or whoever it is you're watching, right? I, Maddie wants to watch Dawson's Creek. So we decided that at like some point we'll watch that. And that was like actually before James Vanderbeek died. So I didn't go back to watch it, but Owen and I watched Varsity Blues this weekend. Do you guys remember that movie? Yes. And we're shocked. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (28:28.206) Oh yeah, of course. The Shrink Down (28:28.75) yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Teri (28:29.793) Yes, yes. Wilhelmina (28:33.057) that three of the people in that movie are gone. Paul Walker, Paul Walker, James Randorbeek, and then the guy that plays Billy Bob or whatever, he was like the bigger guy, yeah, he died. And I was like, my God, we're watching a movie that solidly has a lot of people our age, and the three main people are gone. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (28:34.156) Yeah, I saw that. The Shrink Down (28:37.434) yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (28:45.186) The bigger man. Yeah, yeah. The Shrink Down (28:46.705) Wow. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (28:48.579) Yeah. Teri (28:49.435) on. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (28:57.388) Yeah. Yeah. The Shrink Down (28:58.322) goodness. Wilhelmina (28:58.507) Like when Paul Walker walked out of the house, because I kind of had forgotten he was in it, I like it took it like almost took my breath away because I was like, my gosh, how this is so sad. And so I think that I definitely like. I've always gotten like I've always you guys know this, I've always loved movies, I've always loved TV shows, I like it so emotionally invested in dive full in. And so whenever there's a death of one of those characters, I Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (29:07.672) Yeah. Wilhelmina (29:28.427) the people and the characters, I kind of go back and take that moment to sort of mourn it, mourn that version of me who watched that show. I usually do somehow end up reaching out to the people who I like watched it with or connected with. And I just take that time, like I do try to like watch something that they were in, just to give it sort of like a, I guess a place of honor and to go through the process, like to just give. give it some grief, give it some mourning. Because otherwise it's like you just sort of keep going on in life, right? And you just don't even think about it versus like taking that time to pause, taking that time to reflect on your mortality, taking that time to remember. I think it's important. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (30:04.75) Yeah. The Shrink Down (30:14.46) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (30:14.734) Well, and I think, I mean, you're definitely not the only one because there's all of that. There's all those statistics that show that when somebody passes away, that was famous and in something that people loved the, the viewings of that movie or show always increase quite a bit significantly following the death of that person. So it is a, it's a nice way of honoring that period. Like you said, The Shrink Down (30:35.614) Yeah, well, me know. Well, let know you brought up when you were when you brought up the topic, you said that I think it was I can't remember if you said it was a friend of yours or not. But this the passing of James Vanderbeek made her think of the passing of her own close friend. And that is, I think, another aspect of this is that it makes you also think about your own personal losses if you've experienced that. And like, I know for me, any time I hear someone young, it automatically makes me think about my stepmom who passed away like really young. And so I think Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (30:49.666) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (30:49.804) Yes. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (30:55.426) Yeah. Wilhelmina (30:55.927) Right. The Shrink Down (31:04.786) that that's just like another level to why people feel that way is that it can definitely trigger like your own personal losses. And, you know, the same way that you would care for yourself and losing that person if you're feeling that again, I think those are the same things that you would do in that moment is, you know, make sure that you're engaging in like self care, whatever that looks like to you, you know, whether it's therapy, counseling, talking to somebody or doing your own kind of self care, the things that you know, that bring you joy and, and Wilhelmina (31:10.477) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (31:18.061) Right. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (31:23.832) Mm-hmm. The Shrink Down (31:33.116) make you feel good. Those are good things to kind of do in those moments when you're feeling that way. Wilhelmina (31:38.71) Yeah, well, one of my patients had talked about the death of a childhood high school friend, and they were kind of synced up with the timing of it. in the same week, James Vanderbeek and this person died, and she was saying like, wow, this feels so, they felt sort of very similar because it was like the same, basically in the. The Shrink Down (31:50.174) . Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (31:57.42) Mm. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (32:01.228) Yeah. The Shrink Down (32:02.728) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (32:05.173) same area of the brain really in terms of those memories and that time. And being like weaving that of like feeling the loss of the one, feeling the loss of the other and then be like, but this person was a celebrity and this person was a friend, why are they feeling even a little bit similar? And I was just like, it's just the time of your life. That's what's similar and who you were. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (32:06.398) Yeah. Teri (32:07.526) them. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (32:22.99) Mm-hmm. Teri (32:29.786) And I think that there's aspects of loss where some of it is what they're leading behind, right? Like what James Vanderbeek has kids and what he'll miss out on what they'll miss out and like what you're leaving behind. And then I think there's losses when people are young for what they didn't get to experience and to get people. So my husband, one of his close friends, this was like 10 plus years ago, died suddenly in an accident. and he was 31 and. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (32:35.554) Mm-hmm. The Shrink Down (32:38.098) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (32:46.156) Mm-hmm. The Shrink Down (32:46.224) yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (32:55.299) Yeah. Teri (32:56.25) You know, for that, you know, he, some of his brothers already have been married. think one had one kid who was like two, but as time has gone on, when our friend group reminisces about him or talks about him, and they've actually been really good about honoring the date he passed and going to the cemetery. And one of our friends had a party, which would have been his 40th birthday and everyone got together. But now it's reached a stage of life where it's like what he didn't get to have. And what would his life have looked like if he had. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (33:18.989) No. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (33:23.584) Right. Right. The Shrink Down (33:23.986) Yes. Teri (33:25.756) lived past 31. And, you know, that who knows what he would have been up to? Would he have been in the mix with all of us having kids and, you know, whatever, would he still been doing his own thing? Because it's just hard, so much changes between 31 and 45. And, you know, who knows where life would have taken him. So I think there's a couple aspects to it, too. It's like what you leave behind and then what remains ahead that you don't get to experience. And letting yourself think about those things, even if it feels uncomfortable. and hard because I think that's a way to honor the person, you know, and to give some thought to it as the years go by. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (34:04.748) Yeah, they always say, you know, Patrick Dempsey wrote a post about Eric Dane, actually the morning that we're recording this. That's I just saw it. And he, you know, he said what I think a lot of people say is like, you know, go hug your loved ones and be grateful and all those things. And it's like all of that is so true, but it also puts a lot of pressure on you. You know, like in a weird way, it like it feels like a lot of pressure to Terry's point of like, you know, it can be hard to think about, like, wow, those people missed out on these things. Wilhelmina (34:07.957) Hmm. The Shrink Down (34:18.558) Mm-hmm. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (34:34.166) I should really love and appreciate these things. And it's all true, but it also, you know, it feels a little anxiety provoking in a way to actually acknowledge that. I mean, it's good to, of course. Teri (34:36.572) you The Shrink Down (34:46.79) Mm-hmm. Sure. Wilhelmina (34:46.829) Mm-hmm. Teri (34:47.376) think that's such a good point. I think that's a good point because it's like, well, am I being mindful enough? Am I being thankful enough? Am I, right? Am I appreciating my life and my kids and everything because it could be gone in a second and James Van Der Beek would give anything to have one more hug, hug his kids one more time. And I'm screaming at them to get out the door to school. Right? It's this, yeah, it's this weird dichotomy where it's be, gratitude and be appreciative. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (34:52.654) I The Shrink Down (34:54.236) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (34:58.038) Yeah, I know. Mm-hmm. The Shrink Down (35:04.456) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (35:06.446) Pick up your socks. Yeah. Mm-hmm. The Shrink Down (35:10.184) Yeah. Teri (35:15.718) but you also have to just live your day-to-day life. And I do think there's a bit of pressure and there's some tension there, you know, where how you figure out, you know, where you are each day. Cause you still have to live on a daily basis. Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (35:16.348) huh. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (35:25.634) The balance. Wilhelmina (35:29.301) You know, thing that I think like this isn't necessarily with the death, but I remember, Terry, when you first said like, have you guys seen Eric Dane recently? This was before like this was like six months ago. And I had not actually because I didn't watch Euphoria, which he was in. Although, no, I will because Jacob Bell already is in it. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (35:40.231) yeah. Teri (35:41.692) Hmm. Teri (35:48.508) Euphoria is fantastic. That is a show that I never lost interest in. Euphoria, yes. The Shrink Down (35:49.02) Thank you. Wilhelmina (35:53.643) Okay, well, don't, I mean, guys, that's this lead of Wuthering Heights. Teri (35:57.04) I know, I know. Yeah, he's good in it. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (35:57.964) Yeah. The Shrink Down (35:58.301) He's also in Frankenstein. He does really, he's good in that. He's really good in it. Wilhelmina (35:59.788) Yes, yes. But like McSteamy, I mean, he was so hot. He was married to Rebecca Gayheart. And then I remember seeing photos of him and like seeing it was so like, here's this man who at the top of his game was at, you know, in this show and super hot, super whatever. And now he's aging like the rest of us. Obviously he had MS, but like it really makes, we've talked about how like, Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (36:06.286) I know. The Shrink Down (36:06.869) yeah. Wilhelmina (36:27.851) the struggles of aging in our text threads and sort of like getting older and like having to like look at your face in the mirror change and like from the face you knew, right? And to like, it's hard and all of that, the aging process goes along with the mortality, right? And so it was strange to see Eric Dane in such a different... Way as I remembered him from Grey's Anatomy and speaking of a memory. Do you guys remember gathering together to watch Grey's Anatomy before match day? For our we like we I think Lauren we went over to your place and Yes, and you got us you got us champagne. No, you got a champagne and orange juice and And I remember being like I don't think I'm in a match. I just maybe Yes. Yes Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (36:55.81) Mm-hmm. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (37:03.47) You Teri (37:06.94) Yes. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (37:07.266) See, I thought we was had. Yeah, I thought it was after we got matched. Yeah, I remember that. The Shrink Down (37:16.062) you Teri (37:18.428) Yes. The Shrink Down (37:19.748) actually I do. Now this is coming back to me. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. I don't remember us watching Grey's Anatomy, but I remember probably because I was so stressed about it. Because back then it was very odd system. my gosh. Teri (37:21.774) I do. I do. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (37:22.36) I remember you all coming over. that's funny that you remember and we watched Grey's. that's funny. Okay. No. I know. Wilhelmina (37:23.979) Yes. And we were watching Grey's Anatomy. Yeah. Wilhelmina (37:34.189) you Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (37:37.26) my gosh. Yeah, those memories. Yeah. That's too funny. Yeah, that's funny. That's funny. Yeah. Wilhelmina (37:37.421) But that I always link those two is like Grey's Anatomy, you making us like the little Momosa package to go and our matching. Yeah. Teri (37:46.896) I do remember that. Now I also remember in the news thinking, Eric Dane married the Noxzema girl who's Rebecca Gayheart. And when we were kids and teens, she was the Noxzema girl. And... Wilhelmina (37:53.409) Mm-hmm. Okay. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (37:53.879) Yes. The Shrink Down (37:53.981) at this, yeah. She was. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (37:57.312) Also Luke Perry's girlfriend on 90210. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yes. Teri (37:59.42) Thank you. Also, with Perry's girlfriend who gets killed, who's like dating her dad's the mob boss on the net and I don't know. Yes, that death was so she, but they had some drama that ended up in the tabloids where they were in like a hot tub smoking a joint and having like a threesome. I don't know. There was some kind of drama that was in tabloids before they divorced, while they were still married. Wilhelmina (37:59.789) Yes! Wilhelmina (38:05.28) that death, that death. Wilhelmina (38:13.14) Yes, they did. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (38:13.71) Correct. Wilhelmina (38:21.069) Well then she murdered, she like killed someone. Yes, that's. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (38:23.96) She killed somebody in a hit and run. Hit and run, yeah. The Shrink Down (38:24.83) She did. I was gonna say, wasn't she involved in some kind of, Teri (38:27.296) Yes. Yeah. So they had a lot going on in their marriage. And then I saw something in the news that he had an ALS diagnosis. It was him at an airport in a wheelchair. And I thought, oh my gosh, his health has really declined. But then that Rebecca Gayheart had, they have a couple of kids together, had really stayed by his side and been like a good support for him, you know, and for their family in the last year or so. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (38:31.275) Mm-hmm. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (38:45.154) Yep. Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (38:52.375) Did he rebury? Teri (38:54.498) No, he never remarried and his declines now ALS is is yeah Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (38:54.924) No. Mm-mm. Wilhelmina (38:57.873) it's interesting because some of the things had said his wife by his side, but they must have meant his ex-wife. Okay. Teri (39:02.438) Yes. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (39:02.466) I think that people got very confused. She just stayed by his side in terms of the care piece. But I think I read something like it was like he lived in a guest house or a house next door. They like made it so that he had care 24 hours a day, but she and the kids were right there. Yeah. The Shrink Down (39:02.824) Next slide. Wilhelmina (39:08.279) God. Wilhelmina (39:12.683) Okay. Wilhelmina (39:18.607) that's awesome. Okay. I was like, he remarried. The Shrink Down (39:19.784) Mm. Teri (39:20.666) And well, ALS can have a pretty rapid decline. so, I mean, that's unfortunately the course of the illness, the prognosis is it tends to be pretty quick. So I think that was the case for him. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (39:22.274) Mm-mm. The Shrink Down (39:24.507) yeah. The Shrink Down (39:30.098) Yeah. Yeah. Wilhelmina (39:31.649) Well, Patrick Dempsey in his speaking out said that he was actually losing his ability to speak recently. The Shrink Down (39:40.092) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Teri (39:40.262) Yeah. Aw, that's so sad. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (39:41.142) Yeah. I think though that, I mean, it just circles back to everything that we were saying. I mean, it really highlights our mortality, right? Like I think of ALS as like something, it doesn't feel like something people our age get, right? Of course they do. Because we're, we are not 20. We are not watching Grey's Anatomy at my house anymore. Like that's so, yeah. Like it's, it's just, it's like, The Shrink Down (39:54.578) Yeah, yeah. I think when you... Wilhelmina (39:55.287) Right. Wilhelmina (39:58.766) What are you talking about? I feel 20. The Shrink Down (40:01.521) Okay. Teri (40:04.348) Bye! Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (40:06.726) eye-opening all of these deaths that whether they're a celebrity or somebody close to us or somebody that's within our age group that we hear about, yeah, it's startling because of course these things, these medical diagnoses are happening at our age. The Shrink Down (40:23.294) Right. It makes you think like when somebody, when you hear of like a celebrity who passes away and they're like 90s or late 80s, you know, or like when my grandma passed away and her like almost 100, you think about it very differently. You think, my gosh, they live such a great, wonderful, long life. Like good for them. You view it very differently than when somebody passes away in their 40s or 50s, even their 60s. You think of, my gosh, you had so much more life to live. We've talked about, you know, the kids you leave behind. And so you really do view those. Wilhelmina (40:35.723) Right. Such a good life. Right. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (40:36.014) Totally. Teri (40:39.045) I'm sorry. The Shrink Down (40:53.15) you know, those passing very differently, you know, depending on the age of the person, because I think it makes you think differently, right? Like I think, oh my gosh, if I lived till I'm 90, that'll be amazing. How great, you know, that'll be. so which is very different than thinking about, you know, my gosh, if I passed away in my 50s, like my daughter would be so young still. And, you know, I feel like there's so many things that I still would have wanted to do that I haven't done. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (40:54.104) very differently. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (41:01.228) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (41:05.43) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (41:10.828) Yeah, right. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (41:17.112) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (41:18.071) What do you guys think about Kimberly Van Der Beek posting for the GoFundMe? And I know there's a lot of stuff about this, almost like with the announcement of his death. Like it was like, he has passed and here's the GoFundMe. I thought that- Teri (41:34.298) To support, yeah, so to support the family, right? And he had been, I saw on the news that he had been selling off Dawson's Creek memorabilia. But then also they had just finalized purchasing the almost $5 million ranch. Yeah. So two things, because I had the same thought. I'm of the mind if someone wants to post a GoFundMe and people want to contribute to it, that's their decision. Wilhelmina (41:37.409) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (41:43.246) Mm-hmm. Wilhelmina (41:43.307) Yes. purchase $4.8 million range. Yeah. Teri (42:03.546) They can, get to decide where you spend your money, right? Yeah, like that's up to you. Do I think if you're making things that public, do people want some more background and color and context to it? Maybe, I don't know. I don't know. What do you guys think? The Shrink Down (42:06.278) if you want to contribute or not, yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (42:21.356) Yeah. I mean, the other thing that can happen in those situations, though, is that people are without permission sending a family like that things they may they may have gotten a lot of let me send you money. Let me send you this thing. Let me. So there may be some legal advice that occurs with that says like, you know, you're much better off doing this all on the up and up. And it's out there for the public. And then The Shrink Down (42:23.42) Yeah. Teri (42:38.128) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (42:50.74) Vanessa or Terry Vanessa's point whoever said like and then you decide like you can ignore this you don't have to or it's all there and it's all public and it's all on the up and up and so there's nothing where somebody can come out in a couple of years and say well you know I sent that family a check and I never heard back you know like just like salacious stories that come of it I wonder I don't know I have no idea I wonder if there is some kind of legal or moral strategy to it. Wilhelmina (43:20.513) Well, and why would you do it like a month later, right? Like if you really want to have the biggest impact for, and my guess is they had talked about it. Cause like, I think a lot of people got together with the family. Right. But I think like a lot of the celebrities have been like, I just saw him this weekend. I had a feeling they had some big gathering. Cause there were lots of people who had literally just been at the ranch and seen him. which made me wonder, like, I mean, clearly they knew the end was near. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (43:29.944) Well, especially if he was selling things already. Yeah. The Shrink Down (43:32.093) Yeah. Teri (43:32.464) Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (43:37.12) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. The Shrink Down (43:41.896) Yeah. Yeah. The Shrink Down (43:48.988) Yeah, he's probably in hospice already. Wilhelmina (43:49.28) And so my guess is that he had said like, go do this, like do this when I die. Yeah. And to get the biggest like impact, would be right away versus doing it like a month later when everyone's kind of moved, sadly moved on from it. So from like actually trying to get the most out of it, it makes sense, but it definitely has a bit of like a feeling when you see it posted together, right? Like. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (43:54.144) Yeah, I'm okay. Yeah. Teri (44:16.208) Well, we were texting about how one of us sent it, maybe it was me, forgot, that whatever his contract was from Dawson's Creek and the residuals. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (44:24.61) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. The Shrink Down (44:24.7) Right. We don't know what his financial situation was yet. Wilhelmina (44:24.832) yes. Teri (44:28.72) Yeah, like who's to know what the financial situation was. don't, feel like contracts back in the day were, could be really crappy. Wilhelmina (44:29.196) Yes. The Shrink Down (44:29.938) Yeah. Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (44:35.502) They get nothing. Yeah. The Shrink Down (44:35.548) And I think I told you guys that I saw him on a not so long ago. He had already been diagnosed at that point at the Masked Singer, which I really like the show. I'm not poo-pooing anyone who goes on the show, but it's one of those things where like. Yeah, like it's it's it's usually people who are trying to make a comeback or people who are like the actors and the actresses and all the people they have on there, they're all famous people who can sing to some degree, right? Wilhelmina (44:47.777) He was needing money. bet. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (44:54.478) Mm-hmm. The Shrink Down (45:01.434) Yeah, I wonder like what it was interesting when I saw him. was like, first of I didn't know he could sing. And secondly, I was like, why are you on this show? You know, so I wonder if from a financial perspective, he already knew that he was ill. And I think at that point, he was still very hopeful. And they talked like a little bit about what was going on, like when they interviewed him. So, yeah, I think we never know what someone's financial situation is. And, you know, I don't know that his wife works. Maybe she would stay maybe she stayed home taking care of the children. And now he's the only source of income for them is no longer here. And Wilhelmina (45:15.265) He was, yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (45:28.046) Probably, right. The Shrink Down (45:31.144) who knows what source of income she has now that he's not here. Yeah. Wilhelmina (45:33.899) don't think he got much. I don't think he got much from Dawson's Creek. think that like Michelle Williams has come out openly and but like we were, what did she say? Like we were the guinea pigs for like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (45:37.272) Mm-mm. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (45:42.306) The guinea pigs of Netflix or something. They don't see anything from the replays or whatever. The Shrink Down (45:43.218) Yeah. And I feel like the other three main characters from that show have gone on to do a lot of things. And I think he has not done as much as them, at least from what I... Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (45:52.29) Yeah. Wilhelmina (45:55.565) He did that, the bee in an apartment, whatever is that, 23? No, no. Michelle Williams, mean, huge, yeah. Teri (45:57.114) I agree. Yeah. Yeah. But not like what Joshua Jackson and Katie Holmes, like what they went on to do. You're right. Is not, I feel like, yeah. Yeah. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (45:58.478) 23, yeah. The Shrink Down (46:01.168) No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They all kind of moved on. Like, yeah. So yeah, very sad situation. Any other thoughts about today's talk? Alright ladies, well thank you everyone for joining us. there you go. There you go. Enjoy your life. Take the trip, right? What's that saying? Take the trip. Call the friend, I don't know. Do all the things. Alright, thank you for joining us. Please join us next time on The Shrinkdown. Teri (46:17.262) It's okay to hug your kids and yell at them. I'm saying it's okay to hug your kids and yell at them at the same, at the same, in the same day. Yep. Wilhelmina (46:20.085) Yeah, that's what I was going say. Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (46:20.334) and say, hug your loved ones at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Call your mom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right.