{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":6.31,"endTime":10.39,"body":"Welcome back to Demystifying Instructional Design podcast, where I interview"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":10.39,"endTime":14.68,"body":"various instructional designers to figure out what instructional designers do."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":15.25,"endTime":17.35,"body":"I'm Rebecca Hogue, your podcast host."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":18.16,"endTime":20.32,"body":"This season, I'm going to try something a little different."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":20.98,"endTime":23.83,"body":"When I looked at my podcast statistics on Apple Podcast,"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":23.83,"endTime":27.31,"body":"I noticed that people don't listen beyond the 15 minute"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":27.31,"endTime":30.67,"body":"mark, which is a shame because the interviews are all"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":30.67,"endTime":31.48,"body":"very interesting."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":31.9,"endTime":34.69,"body":"So this season, I'm going to break up my longer"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":34.69,"endTime":38.41,"body":"interviews into 15 to 20 minute segments and run them"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":38.41,"endTime":40.27,"body":"as multi-part series."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":41.41,"endTime":43.99,"body":"I begin the season with a three part series where"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":43.99,"endTime":47.41,"body":"I interview Lance Eaton about instructional design in a higher"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":47.41,"endTime":48.28,"body":"ED context."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":48.91,"endTime":50.68,"body":"And now here's part one."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":52.62,"endTime":54.3,"body":"To start with, can you introduce yourself?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":54.72,"endTime":55.26,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":55.32,"endTime":56.23,"body":"Thank you for having me."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":56.25,"endTime":57.59,"body":"I am Lance Easton."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":57.6,"endTime":61.29,"body":"I am director of Digital Pedagogy at College Unbound, as"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":61.29,"endTime":64.11,"body":"well as a part time instructor at North Shore Community"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":64.11,"endTime":67.68,"body":"College, a southern New Hampshire University, and a doctoral student"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":67.68,"endTime":68.97,"body":"at UMass Boston."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":69.3,"endTime":71.07,"body":"Can you tell us a little bit about what I"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":71.07,"endTime":72.55,"body":"like to call your origin story?"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":72.57,"endTime":74.76,"body":"How did you get into instructional design?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":75.66,"endTime":79.38,"body":"I was six years old and I looked up into"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":79.38,"endTime":81.39,"body":"my dad's eyes and I said, I want to be"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":81.39,"endTime":83.2,"body":"an instructional designer when I grow up."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":83.28,"endTime":85.59,"body":"No, whenever I get asked that question, I always joke"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":85.59,"endTime":87.75,"body":"about that because I almost feel like that will never"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":87.75,"endTime":90.35,"body":"be the instructional designer origin story."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":90.36,"endTime":92.46,"body":"And that makes me think a lot about the work"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":92.46,"endTime":92.97,"body":"that we do."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":93.0,"endTime":97.5,"body":"I again, like many other folks in my experience, I"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":97.5,"endTime":98.25,"body":"fell into it."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":98.28,"endTime":100.83,"body":"In fact, six months before I became an instructional designer,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":100.83,"endTime":103.59,"body":"I probably couldn't tell you what an instructional designer was."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":103.83,"endTime":107.34,"body":"I was doing the full time adjunct in the late"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":107.34,"endTime":109.5,"body":"2000s, so I was teaching."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":110.22,"endTime":113.7,"body":"I think I tapped out nine face to face courses"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":113.7,"endTime":115.62,"body":"and two online courses in a semester."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":116.1,"endTime":118.92,"body":"And so over this five or six year period, I"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":118.92,"endTime":124.95,"body":"ended up teaching over 80 85 sections, and within that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":124.95,"endTime":126.72,"body":"about 15 different courses."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":127.17,"endTime":129.66,"body":"I was using a lot of technology to keep my"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":129.66,"endTime":132.63,"body":"sanity, to keep the things moving about and figuring things"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":132.63,"endTime":132.9,"body":"out."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":133.23,"endTime":137.19,"body":"And I started to share some of the things that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":137.19,"endTime":137.84,"body":"I was doing."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":138.06,"endTime":140.43,"body":"I was using a blog where my students from different"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":140.43,"endTime":143.55,"body":"courses would come to the blog to respond to different"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":143.55,"endTime":145.95,"body":"essays and depending on their discipline, they were responding in"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":145.95,"endTime":146.67,"body":"different ways."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":146.91,"endTime":148.74,"body":"People were finding out or sharing about this."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":148.74,"endTime":151.02,"body":"People, you know, would invite me to talk about what"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":151.02,"endTime":151.76,"body":"I was doing."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":151.77,"endTime":155.07,"body":"And one of the institution's, North Shore Community College, I"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":155.1,"endTime":158.37,"body":"was introduced to the instructional designers there, and they took"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":158.37,"endTime":160.5,"body":"me under their wing and started showing me things."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":160.5,"endTime":163.11,"body":"And then they ended up leaving and the position became"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":163.11,"endTime":166.29,"body":"open and people were encouraging me to apply for it."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":166.29,"endTime":168.94,"body":"And at that point, there were two things going on."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":168.96,"endTime":171.15,"body":"One, I was really interested because it felt like this"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":171.15,"endTime":175.02,"body":"interesting mix for me of thinking about the classroom and"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":175.02,"endTime":178.38,"body":"getting to help and support other faculty around how we"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":178.38,"endTime":179.46,"body":"we figure these things out."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":179.76,"endTime":184.02,"body":"And also the adjunct shuffle is a hustle game, and"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":184.02,"endTime":185.64,"body":"you can only sustain it for so long."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":185.64,"endTime":188.58,"body":"And it's easy to burnout, especially when you're doing between"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":188.58,"endTime":191.25,"body":"seven and nine courses a semester. I applied,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":191.25,"endTime":194.31,"body":"and I, basically at the time, frame it as like"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":194.31,"endTime":198.63,"body":"I did not have formal ID experience, but I had"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":198.63,"endTime":201.87,"body":"designed 15 courses over five or six years, many of"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":201.87,"endTime":205.05,"body":"them from scratch, and I was teaching them using all"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":205.05,"endTime":209.19,"body":"sorts of interesting pedagogical and technological approaches, and they took"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":209.19,"endTime":209.55,"body":"me on."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":209.55,"endTime":212.49,"body":"And then shortly thereafter, I ended up getting my master's"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":212.49,"endTime":215.64,"body":"in education and instructional design at UMass Boston."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":216.18,"endTime":218.4,"body":"How do you describe what you do?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":219.03,"endTime":222.63,"body":"Yeah, it's the elevator pitch that is always an interesting"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":223.02,"endTime":223.96,"body":"challenge."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":223.98,"endTime":228.66,"body":"I describe my role almost always as, I work with"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":228.87,"endTime":233.31,"body":"faculty to think about teaching and learning, typically through the"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":233.31,"endTime":237.03,"body":"use of tools and those tools include everything from pen"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":237.03,"endTime":240.3,"body":"and pad up to virtual reality and my goal is"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":240.3,"endTime":244.41,"body":"to find the right balance between the pedagogy, the technology"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":244.41,"endTime":246.27,"body":"and the students."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":246.54,"endTime":249.6,"body":"And that involves a lot of different things based on"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":249.6,"endTime":252.18,"body":"what institution I'm at, what the student population is, what the"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":252.18,"endTime":256.62,"body":"instructors comfort level is. It often focuses on hybrid and"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":256.62,"endTime":257.6,"body":"online learning."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":257.609,"endTime":260.7,"body":"But I do just as many consultations for face to"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":260.7,"endTime":262.079,"body":"face environments as well."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":262.85,"endTime":265.23,"body":"What are the typical tasks in your day?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":266.62,"endTime":270.52,"body":"I'll go into the into my specifics, but somewhere within"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":270.52,"endTime":272.62,"body":"here, I'll talk a little bit more broadly about the"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":272.62,"endTime":277.6,"body":"30000 foot view of instructional design in higher education that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":277.6,"endTime":279.22,"body":"I've seen over the years."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":279.22,"endTime":282.49,"body":"Because while what is typical for me is it's really"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":282.49,"endTime":285.76,"body":"going to depend on what kind of instructional design position"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":285.76,"endTime":287.14,"body":"you have at an institution."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":287.47,"endTime":291.01,"body":"I'm usually involved in a mixture of short term, long"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":291.01,"endTime":292.7,"body":"term and medium term projects."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":292.72,"endTime":295.3,"body":"And so it's shifting about in relation to when deadlines"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":295.3,"endTime":297.82,"body":"are, in relation to when faculty are reaching out to"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":297.82,"endTime":301.3,"body":"me or other people within the institution, or reaching out"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":301.3,"endTime":303.99,"body":"to me to move those different projects forward."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":304.0,"endTime":306.91,"body":"But a lot of it is working in collaboration with"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":306.91,"endTime":307.57,"body":"a faculty member."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":307.63,"endTime":309.97,"body":"Just prior to this, I was on a call with"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":310.21,"endTime":313.78,"body":"a brand new faculty member trying to understand our institution"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":313.78,"endTime":316.81,"body":"and our students needs and how to shape and frame."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":316.81,"endTime":319.48,"body":"Of course, that's going to be largely online for them."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":319.78,"endTime":323.29,"body":"After this meeting, I will probably jump into figuring out"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":323.32,"endTime":325.36,"body":"what are the deadlines and the markers that we need"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":325.36,"endTime":327.94,"body":"to put out and communicate out to our faculty for"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":327.94,"endTime":331.54,"body":"our courses coming up next semester and then shift to"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":331.54,"endTime":335.44,"body":"thinking about this larger project of how we're integrating the"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":335.44,"endTime":338.47,"body":"tools that we have students using to demonstrate their learning"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":338.65,"endTime":341.65,"body":"with the tools we want to use in professional development"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":341.65,"endTime":345.13,"body":"for our faculty as they're learning the different technologies in"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":345.13,"endTime":347.56,"body":"the class so that there's a mirroring going on, that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":347.56,"endTime":349.6,"body":"they're learning these things and they're learning them in a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":349.93,"endTime":353.35,"body":"timely fashion to be useful for when they're deploying them"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":353.35,"endTime":355.21,"body":"or our students are expected to be using them in"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":355.21,"endTime":355.78,"body":"the classroom."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":355.94,"endTime":359.32,"body":"So it is a mixture of thinking about one to"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":359.32,"endTime":363.28,"body":"one, working with faculty, thinking about systems and kind of"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":363.28,"endTime":367.63,"body":"planning for different trajectories from what's this week to what's"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":367.63,"endTime":370.36,"body":"in six months to what's the larger picture of the"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":370.36,"endTime":373.81,"body":"institution on how we want to think about our LMS"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":373.81,"endTime":376.51,"body":"or what LMS we move into next, because that's a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":376.51,"endTime":378.79,"body":"question we're thinking about right now."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":379.18,"endTime":381.61,"body":"I enjoy it because you can be in the weeds"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":381.61,"endTime":383.98,"body":"and you can also be 30000 feet in the air."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":384.02,"endTime":386.77,"body":"You mentioned you have this 30000 foot view of being"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":386.77,"endTime":388.18,"body":"an instructional designer in higher ED."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":388.39,"endTime":390.01,"body":"Can you share a little bit about what that is?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":390.46,"endTime":390.94,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":390.97,"endTime":394.3,"body":"So in my experience, what I'm seeing and I don't"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":394.3,"endTime":398.38,"body":"think often comes up enough is there is almost three"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":398.38,"endTime":401.53,"body":"types of instructional designers in higher ED."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":402.01,"endTime":405.49,"body":"You don't always know this based upon the descriptions."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":406.12,"endTime":408.61,"body":"You don't always know this based on the institutes."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":408.61,"endTime":411.55,"body":"But one is the course designer, and this is the"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":414.19,"endTime":415.34,"body":"\"Here's the content."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":415.48,"endTime":416.65,"body":"Put it into the course.\""},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":416.95,"endTime":419.59,"body":"It's sometimes almost referred to as an assembly model."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":419.65,"endTime":420.58,"body":"This is your role."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":420.58,"endTime":421.63,"body":"This is your lane."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":421.64,"endTime":425.32,"body":"Take the content, maybe give some feedback on it or"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":425.32,"endTime":429.37,"body":"tweak it as needs to be for either this cookie-cutter"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":429.37,"endTime":432.61,"body":"course or, this kind of, the instructor has given you"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":432.61,"endTime":436.0,"body":"all that you need to just implement it into that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":436.0,"endTime":436.45,"body":"space."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":436.75,"endTime":439.57,"body":"And so within that person may be putting it in"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":439.57,"endTime":439.81,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":439.81,"endTime":443.35,"body":"They may be creating the various learning interactives, setting up"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":443.35,"endTime":446.62,"body":"all the assessment structures within the LMS, all of those"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":446.62,"endTime":446.95,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":447.58,"endTime":451.87,"body":"Another version is the project manager who is working with"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":451.87,"endTime":454.72,"body":"a team, and they are the lead person of working"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":454.72,"endTime":457.33,"body":"with the faculty member to translate what the faculty member"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":457.33,"endTime":459.55,"body":"wants to the different people on the team."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":459.55,"endTime":462.79,"body":"So maybe if they're looking for videos and interactives, they're"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":462.79,"endTime":466.33,"body":"hooking up with the multimedia designer or the multimedia creator"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":466.51,"endTime":469.54,"body":"to plan those out, record those with the faculty member."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":469.98,"endTime":472.21,"body":"They're working with the accessibility person to make sure that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":472.21,"endTime":473.02,"body":"all of that's working."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":473.2,"endTime":475.78,"body":"They're working with the instructional technologist who just put the"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":475.78,"endTime":476.83,"body":"things in the course."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":477.19,"endTime":479.86,"body":"And then there's the instructional designer who is more coach."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":480.31,"endTime":484.93,"body":"And in those situations, you're not necessarily doing as much"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":484.93,"endTime":485.65,"body":"building."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":485.65,"endTime":488.89,"body":"You're not necessarily needing to lean on or have mastery"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":488.89,"endTime":492.01,"body":"of a lot of technology, but more working with the"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":492.01,"endTime":495.07,"body":"faculty member to translate what they want to do and"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":495.07,"endTime":497.44,"body":"guide them in how they will do it and how"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":497.44,"endTime":499.07,"body":"they will put it in their classroom."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":499.09,"endTime":501.97,"body":"And those are three broad buckets, I should be clear,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":501.97,"endTime":504.1,"body":"like it is not always going to be perfect any"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":504.1,"endTime":506.44,"body":"one of those, but generally what I've seen of jobs,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":506.44,"endTime":509.68,"body":"in positions, in the way they work, they typically fall"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":509.68,"endTime":511.0,"body":"pretty close to those three."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":511.0,"endTime":513.969,"body":"And so my experience has largely been as the instructional"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":513.969,"endTime":517.03,"body":"designer, as coach, the instructional designer working with the faculty"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":517.03,"endTime":517.3,"body":"member."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":517.3,"endTime":521.2,"body":"So yeah, there's tools that I know and I'm comfortable"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":521.2,"endTime":524.41,"body":"with for video content, I stick mostly to screencast-o-matic"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":524.41,"endTime":526.24,"body":"because it has everything I need."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":526.75,"endTime":529.0,"body":"If I've got to learn Camtasia, I need a week"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":529.12,"endTime":532.36,"body":"two, three, maybe a month and to really get comfortable"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":532.36,"endTime":532.81,"body":"with that."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":533.2,"endTime":535.75,"body":"But I've never really needed to use it because a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":535.75,"endTime":537.58,"body":"lot of the stuff that we're building, like we're not"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":537.58,"endTime":541.42,"body":"making the Spielberg version of educational videos."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":541.42,"endTime":544.45,"body":"We're making things that are can be made in a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":544.45,"endTime":547.33,"body":"contained way and put out there pretty quickly."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":547.84,"endTime":549.28,"body":"Efficiency is important."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":549.76,"endTime":550.24,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":550.51,"endTime":553.18,"body":"In tools that I can use and also pass off"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":553.18,"endTime":555.25,"body":"to faculty to use in a way that they feel"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":555.25,"endTime":555.73,"body":"comfortable."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":557.77,"endTime":560.14,"body":"that's a car, Camtasia is a tank."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":560.53,"endTime":563.05,"body":"If you have faculty that are creating the content, they"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":563.05,"endTime":565.15,"body":"need, cars, tanks are going to overwhelm them."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":565.48,"endTime":565.81,"body":"I'm."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":566.18,"endTime":568.07,"body":"Pretty well versed in that tool, because I use it"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":568.07,"endTime":570.47,"body":"a lot for myself, and if I'm working with a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":570.47,"endTime":573.47,"body":"faculty member who's going to make their own videos, what's"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":573.47,"endTime":575.06,"body":"the thing they're going to use and be able to"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":575.18,"endTime":576.23,"body":"very quickly pick up?"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":576.32,"endTime":579.77,"body":"What kind of projects do you find fun?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":579.8,"endTime":581.39,"body":"Collaborations! I absolutely love."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":581.42,"endTime":584.03,"body":"I have this habit, and it's a little strange because"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":584.03,"endTime":585.03,"body":"of where I am now."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":585.05,"endTime":587.12,"body":"It's a little harder, but whenever I arrive on a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":587.12,"endTime":590.04,"body":"campus, the first people I seek out are librarians."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":590.06,"endTime":592.19,"body":"First of all, because they're amazing people, they are wonderful"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":592.19,"endTime":594.38,"body":"people, they know all sorts of things or know how"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":594.38,"endTime":595.63,"body":"to find out all sorts of things."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":595.73,"endTime":597.83,"body":"And they also help me abuse the library system and"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":597.83,"endTime":600.17,"body":"get all the books and audio books and great content."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":601.06,"endTime":604.0,"body":"But there's this great Venn diagram between the work that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":604.0,"endTime":605.62,"body":"they're doing and the work that we're doing."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":606.01,"endTime":608.56,"body":"I find getting onto a campus, making friends with the"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":608.56,"endTime":612.76,"body":"library if the instructional design team is in a different"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":612.76,"endTime":615.31,"body":"space from the Center for Teaching and Learning or whatever"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":615.31,"endTime":618.61,"body":"your campus equivalent is, making friends with them and starting"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":618.61,"endTime":620.08,"body":"to think about collaborations there."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":620.08,"endTime":623.32,"body":"And then with accessibility services, we're all trying to solve"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":623.32,"endTime":626.38,"body":"many of the same puzzles, and so I look quickly"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":626.38,"endTime":629.23,"body":"to connect with them and find ways we can mutually"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":629.23,"endTime":632.67,"body":"support and figure out programs together at different campuses."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":632.68,"endTime":636.13,"body":"It's been getting to know accessibility services and starting to"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":636.13,"endTime":639.31,"body":"run, you know, workshop series with them so that we"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":639.31,"endTime":643.15,"body":"can have this rich conversation from both student and instructor"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":643.15,"endTime":645.82,"body":"perspective about how we are making sure our classes are"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":645.82,"endTime":646.27,"body":"inclusive."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":646.84,"endTime":650.56,"body":"I think for me, in big picture topically, what kind"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":650.56,"endTime":654.16,"body":"of projects excite me are usually those that are that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":654.16,"endTime":656.8,"body":"are focused on inclusion in many different ways, like how"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":656.8,"endTime":659.5,"body":"do we welcome students in, make the space more their"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":659.5,"endTime":664.39,"body":"own, and think about what demonstrating learning can look like"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":664.75,"endTime":667.81,"body":"in ways that are value added or asset based, as"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":667.81,"endTime":669.19,"body":"opposed to deficit based."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":669.19,"endTime":671.0,"body":"In terms of how we think about the students in"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":671.17,"endTime":673.87,"body":"terms of how we think about their abilities, their backgrounds,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":673.87,"endTime":678.88,"body":"ways, anything with open attached, open educational resources, open pedagogy,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":679.15,"endTime":682.0,"body":"these things I present on, I work on, I do"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":682.0,"endTime":683.95,"body":"in my own classes because I think there's so much"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":683.95,"endTime":689.35,"body":"value in really freeing up, in creating a learning space"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":689.35,"endTime":694.27,"body":"as a space of negotiating or renegotiating traditional power structures."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":694.9,"endTime":697.48,"body":"So anytime I'm able to work with faculty to be"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":697.48,"endTime":700.9,"body":"thinking about that, to be thinking about challenging our conceptions"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":700.9,"endTime":705.52,"body":"of learning materials, we have this default to textbooks or"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":705.7,"endTime":706.33,"body":"textbooks."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":706.63,"endTime":709.78,"body":"But it's this antiquated thing because the only reason we"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":709.78,"endTime":711.85,"body":"ever went to textbooks in the first place is because"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":711.85,"endTime":716.26,"body":"it was easy to mass produce place to hold knowledge"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":716.41,"endTime":719.11,"body":"in the nineteen hundreds in the early 1800s."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":719.11,"endTime":721.21,"body":"But we're in the 21st century, and so making a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":721.21,"endTime":726.82,"body":"student read a tedious, boring 20 page chapter on a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":726.82,"endTime":730.81,"body":"process that could take two minutes of really good video"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":730.81,"endTime":736.0,"body":"or just working through that process visually or orally, it"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":736.0,"endTime":738.01,"body":"doesn't make sense to me why we're not looking for"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":738.01,"endTime":740.77,"body":"those other wins, those other materials or creating those other"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":740.77,"endTime":743.83,"body":"materials that feel, that just feel more natural and organic"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":743.83,"endTime":744.39,"body":"than a book."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":744.4,"endTime":746.98,"body":"And I see this as somebody who is a hard"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":746.98,"endTime":750.43,"body":"core reader and reads a couple hundred books a year."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":751.15,"endTime":753.66,"body":"So it's not anti-book, but I'm anti-"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":753.97,"endTime":757.45,"body":"That isn't the mechanism that works well for learning many"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":757.45,"endTime":757.95,"body":"times."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":757.96,"endTime":762.01,"body":"So it's those types of projects that challenge conventional education."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":762.31,"endTime":766.75,"body":"That raise student agency, allows them to better contextualize"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":766.96,"endTime":769.63,"body":"or take what's going on in the course and bring"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":769.63,"endTime":771.88,"body":"it into their own world or bring their own world"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":771.88,"endTime":772.75,"body":"into the classroom."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":773.53,"endTime":777.76,"body":"You mentioned this idea of asset based versus deficit based"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":777.76,"endTime":778.27,"body":"assessment."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":778.3,"endTime":780.46,"body":"Can you talk a little bit more about what that"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":780.46,"endTime":780.85,"body":"means?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":781.69,"endTime":786.49,"body":"Yeah, we are very strongly a history of education that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":786.7,"endTime":790.9,"body":"goes into the Freire model, Pedagogy of the Oppressed."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":790.96,"endTime":793.9,"body":"That's the book Paulo Freire, but it's very much on"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":793.9,"endTime":798.28,"body":"the banking model, and the banking model is I am"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":798.28,"endTime":799.39,"body":"the wise person."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":799.63,"endTime":803.32,"body":"The students are empty minded for lack of a better"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":803.32,"endTime":805.93,"body":"word, and I'm going to fill their brains like a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":805.93,"endTime":808.81,"body":"bank account, like I'm going to deposit knowledge in their"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":808.81,"endTime":810.61,"body":"brains and they're going to store that up, and that's"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":810.61,"endTime":811.3,"body":"how they learn."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":812.02,"endTime":817.45,"body":"And that frames so much of our education system, and"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":817.45,"endTime":820.09,"body":"it frames so much of our higher education system, like"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":820.09,"endTime":822.79,"body":"we have grades and we have grade point averages."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":822.79,"endTime":825.97,"body":"We have all of these things that quantify, what does"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":825.97,"endTime":827.56,"body":"an A or B really mean."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":827.56,"endTime":829.36,"body":"And of course, what does that really mean?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":829.36,"endTime":832.48,"body":"But we somehow think it represents the amount of knowledge"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":832.48,"endTime":834.55,"body":"learned in a particular way."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":835.45,"endTime":838.48,"body":"So all of that is based upon the assumption that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":838.48,"endTime":841.12,"body":"the students come into the class empty minded."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":841.12,"endTime":845.56,"body":"And that is a good example of deficit lens thinking"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":845.56,"endTime":846.4,"body":"about students."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":846.61,"endTime":851.14,"body":"Not that they come into the course with rich knowledge"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":851.14,"endTime":855.37,"body":"and experience that can contribute to my learning and everybody"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":855.37,"endTime":856.57,"body":"else in the classes' learning."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":856.78,"endTime":857.44,"body":"But they are."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":857.44,"endTime":860.74,"body":"They are coming in with \"less than\" and therefore need"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":860.74,"endTime":861.46,"body":"to be filled up."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":861.46,"endTime":865.09,"body":"And particularly when you're looking at education through a deficit"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":865.09,"endTime":867.76,"body":"lens, you are the one that has to fill them"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":867.76,"endTime":868.0,"body":"up."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":868.12,"endTime":869.05,"body":"A really good story."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":869.5,"endTime":872.17,"body":"Anecdote that happened a couple of weeks ago, I was"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":872.17,"endTime":873.37,"body":"buying a piece of furniture."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":873.37,"endTime":875.68,"body":"I was engaging with this person who just through the"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":875.68,"endTime":876.28,"body":"conversation."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":876.28,"endTime":878.53,"body":"We found out, like he also, he is also a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":878.53,"endTime":879.07,"body":"teacher."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":879.31,"endTime":883.18,"body":"He teaches history and as he discusses, I could never"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":883.18,"endTime":885.43,"body":"do online learning, like I need to be up there"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":885.43,"endTime":887.64,"body":"and I need to be sharing my knowledge."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":887.79,"endTime":891.33,"body":"And it was very clear there was no trust."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":891.34,"endTime":894.61,"body":"There is no view that the students added anything."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":894.61,"endTime":896.82,"body":"It was all about how he could fix them."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":897.94,"endTime":901.57,"body":"And I think to me, that's a deficit view, and"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":901.57,"endTime":905.45,"body":"for me, an asset based view is thinking about, we"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":905.47,"endTime":907.03,"body":"are going to be a community of learners."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":907.57,"endTime":910.15,"body":"There are things I am more knowledgeable in."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":911.05,"endTime":913.86,"body":"But the room is always going to be smarter than"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":913.87,"endTime":916.66,"body":"the individual, and so how are the ways that we"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":916.66,"endTime":917.08,"body":"can type"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":917.08,"endTime":920.5,"body":"the different knowledge is in that classroom that can enhance"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":920.5,"endTime":923.95,"body":"our collective knowledge even around a subject that I'm specialized"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":923.95,"endTime":927.01,"body":"in and that they are there to learn because even"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":927.01,"endTime":929.44,"body":"though I'm specialized in it, I'm specialized in it through"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":929.44,"endTime":933.67,"body":"my own experience, which is narrow compared to whatever topic"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":933.67,"endTime":936.01,"body":"is that we're learning, I can say, Oh, this is"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":936.01,"endTime":938.53,"body":"the pedagogy that works perfectly, or I can say this"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":938.53,"endTime":939.19,"body":"is the tool."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":939.22,"endTime":942.43,"body":"And but it's always based upon research that is very"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":942.43,"endTime":944.08,"body":"particularly focused and narrowed."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":944.2,"endTime":945.73,"body":"They all live in the real world."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":946.18,"endTime":948.7,"body":"They all have to navigate a complex world like I"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":948.7,"endTime":949.0,"body":"do."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":949.66,"endTime":951.97,"body":"They're going to bring in their own wisdom that can"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":951.97,"endTime":952.81,"body":"benefit all of us."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":952.84,"endTime":956.29,"body":"So to me, that's how I think about this asset"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":956.29,"endTime":959.91,"body":"and deficit base is, am I coming into a space"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":959.92,"endTime":962.29,"body":"or am I... As an instructional designer when working with"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":962.29,"endTime":962.92,"body":"faculty?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":963.1,"endTime":966.34,"body":"How do we encourage a space where they are,"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":966.64,"endTime":971.08,"body":"the students are valued and have the opportunity to feel"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":971.08,"endTime":974.71,"body":"like they are contributors to the course, to feel like"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":974.71,"endTime":979.24,"body":"they are able to be themselves and not feel less"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":979.24,"endTime":981.76,"body":"than because there's."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":983.05,"endTime":985.18,"body":"Because of K through 12 learning, because of all these"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":985.18,"endTime":987.61,"body":"things, they're already coming in with a lot of"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":987.7,"endTime":992.17,"body":"luggage from these negative experiences and we don't in higher"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":992.17,"endTime":995.56,"body":"education, don't often try to remedy that or try to"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":995.92,"endTime":996.46,"body":"look at."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":996.49,"endTime":999.85,"body":"OK, so you don't feel comfortable with math, but what"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":999.85,"endTime":1001.44,"body":"are the ways that we can make math work for"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1001.44,"endTime":1003.96,"body":"you or that are grounded in your life or that"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1003.96,"endTime":1004.86,"body":"you're already doing?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1005.46,"endTime":1007.62,"body":"And I try to also think about that when working"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1007.62,"endTime":1008.4,"body":"with faculty."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1008.43,"endTime":1010.8,"body":"When I talk about working with faculty, the image I"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1010.8,"endTime":1014.85,"body":"always try to think about is how do I sit"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1014.85,"endTime":1017.1,"body":"next to them as opposed to across from them?"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1017.49,"endTime":1019.53,"body":"These are literally or metaphorically."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1019.8,"endTime":1023.25,"body":"And the driving metaphor that I've been using now for"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1023.25,"endTime":1026.339,"body":"a couple of years is as an instructional designer and"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1026.339,"endTime":1029.37,"body":"more of that faculty coach role, like I am a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1029.37,"endTime":1034.319,"body":"DJ and the faculty are this amazing record collection."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1034.65,"endTime":1039.03,"body":"And my goal is to highlight the different types of"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1039.03,"endTime":1043.02,"body":"tracks in songs and mix and match them and share"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1043.02,"endTime":1045.689,"body":"them back with all the musicians to show what is"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1045.87,"endTime":1048.72,"body":"the power of when we interact and connect these different"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1049.23,"endTime":1052.32,"body":"ways that people are thinking and teaching in their classroom."},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1052.32,"endTime":1055.08,"body":"So it's highlighting and focusing on what are really great"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1055.08,"endTime":1058.26,"body":"practices you're already doing in me serving as a"},{"speaker":"LANCE:","startTime":1058.26,"endTime":1059.7,"body":"mediator to help that happen."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1063.17,"endTime":1065.69,"body":"Stay tuned for part two of my interview with Lance,"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1065.96,"endTime":1069.02,"body":"where he talks about the challenges instructional designers face, as"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1069.02,"endTime":1072.05,"body":"well as providing advice for new instructional designers."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1072.77,"endTime":1076.28,"body":"You've been listening to Demystifying Instructional Design, a podcast where"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1076.28,"endTime":1079.04,"body":"I interview instructional designers about what they do."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1079.67,"endTime":1081.59,"body":"I'm Rebecca Hogue, your podcast host."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1082.22,"endTime":1084.2,"body":"If you or someone you know might like to be"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1084.2,"endTime":1088.07,"body":"a guest on demystifying instructional design, please complete the Be"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1088.07,"endTime":1088.88,"body":"My Guest form."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1088.88,"endTime":1091.04,"body":"Available on demystifying instructional design dot com."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1091.04,"endTime":1094.73,"body":"Show notes are posted as a blog post on"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1094.73,"endTime":1096.47,"body":"demystifying instructional design dot com."},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1097.25,"endTime":1099.65,"body":"If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe or leave a"},{"speaker":"REBECCA:","startTime":1099.65,"endTime":1101.51,"body":"comment in the show notes blog post."}]}