WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.680 Music. 00:00:05.671 --> 00:00:11.921 Welcome to the Uncut Podcast. I'm Pastor Luke, and I'm Pastor Cameron, and welcome 00:00:12.162 --> 00:00:16.555 back to the Uncut Podcast, where we have uncut, honest conversations about faith. 00:00:18.922 --> 00:00:25.801 Life, and ministry. I almost forgot what we talked about here. So I was in here the 00:00:25.801 --> 00:00:32.621 other day, and I realized something, Cameron, that maybe you didn't realize or 00:00:32.621 --> 00:00:37.080 maybe our viewers have been noticing, but haven't said anything about. 00:00:37.143 --> 00:00:41.014 But this plant that's in between the two of us is an actual plant. 00:00:41.086 --> 00:00:44.255 I thought it was fake. No, it's real. The snake plant, right? Yeah. 00:00:44.435 --> 00:00:46.541 Well, we haven't been watering it. 00:00:46.781 --> 00:00:48.581 It's slowly been dying. 00:00:48.945 --> 00:00:55.141 I watered it before today's episode. Well, I'm going to tell you, like, I don't know that you can actually kill 00:00:55.141 --> 00:00:58.892 these things because we have several in our house. 00:00:59.261 --> 00:01:09.481 And if you ask, if you ask my wife, she will tell you that our house is the place where plants go to die. 00:01:09.481 --> 00:01:21.061 It's hospice for plants. And we have a few snake plants that are just like, I'm not sure we've ever watered them. 00:01:21.061 --> 00:01:27.341 Ever. They're just still alive and going. Okay. Well, I was like the other day, I was like, oh, this poor thing. 00:01:27.341 --> 00:01:32.621 Like I wonder if it's just been slowly welting the whole course of this podcast and like our viewers, 00:01:32.621 --> 00:01:35.865 maybe a plant lover out there has just been slowly watching it being stored. 00:01:36.101 --> 00:01:39.621 We should go back to the first episode and see if there's a difference in like the shape 00:01:39.621 --> 00:01:45.101 and the color of how it looks. See if it looked healthier. Yeah, it probably did. 00:01:45.101 --> 00:01:49.422 I mean, we are on, what we're recording now is episode 29? 00:01:49.821 --> 00:01:55.481 Yeah, 28 or 29, something like that. We're getting close to 30 episodes. Yeah, so that's... 00:01:56.840 --> 00:02:02.770 Like that's over half a year. Yeah, do we start in January? When did we started? 00:02:03.006 --> 00:02:09.410 Well, I think we started recording at the end of January or maybe mid-january. I think we started releasing in early February 00:02:09.410 --> 00:02:17.170 Okay, so February would be a year for us. Yeah, I think yeah for sure by next February would 100% be a year 00:02:17.356 --> 00:02:19.170 Yeah, I'm proud of us, 00:02:19.742 --> 00:02:25.210 Yeah We've not quit We've not quit. 00:02:25.210 --> 00:02:27.052 We've not skipped a week. 00:02:27.934 --> 00:02:35.210 It's not always been really easy to get them recorded or to know what we're talking about. 00:02:35.210 --> 00:02:42.328 And obviously, I like some weeks and episodes are probably better, definitely better than others. 00:02:42.932 --> 00:02:45.911 But I think every podcast has gotta be like that. 00:02:47.770 --> 00:02:59.510 And yeah, there's some podcasts where I follow them Subscribed to them and I really really like the content. Mm-hmm, but it's so abnormally posted, 00:03:00.198 --> 00:03:08.786 Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, it's just kind of like sporadic. Yeah, it's like they it's you can't count on when an episode is gonna come out Yeah, 00:03:09.632 --> 00:03:11.199 A lot of the bigger ones you can. 00:03:12.756 --> 00:03:18.670 You know the ones with really big budgets and famous people on them. Yeah, right, right because they have other people kind of, 00:03:19.337 --> 00:03:20.510 of arranging their schedules. 00:03:20.510 --> 00:03:23.910 But there's others that have like start and they're like, oh wow, okay, 00:03:23.910 --> 00:03:26.250 these first few episodes are really good. 00:03:26.430 --> 00:03:31.590 And then it's like they haven't posted since March. Yeah, I've definitely run it, 00:03:31.590 --> 00:03:37.044 I've found like, ooh, a podcast about the topic I really wanna learn about or know more things about. 00:03:37.310 --> 00:03:40.750 They've only got three episodes and that was like two years ago 00:03:40.750 --> 00:03:43.150 and they like stopped and like their last episode 00:03:43.150 --> 00:03:46.470 is like, I'll see you next week and then two years go by. 00:03:46.470 --> 00:03:52.510 Years go by, you know, and not that that, like, you know, that totally understand 00:03:52.510 --> 00:03:55.382 how that happens with just about like any hobby. 00:03:55.535 --> 00:04:04.546 Um, but podcasts is definitely like, uh, I don't know. I hope if you're listening, I hope this feels like a, a bit like a conversation 00:04:04.950 --> 00:04:09.070 kind of sitting in a conversation with us, you know, right. 00:04:09.710 --> 00:04:13.750 Well, and also there's still, and we were talking about this on Tuesday, there's 00:04:13.750 --> 00:04:20.597 still the dynamic of us trying to determine what this actually is? 00:04:20.750 --> 00:04:22.250 Yeah. Because. 00:04:23.631 --> 00:04:29.441 Like there's still a significant, at least, there's still a pretty serious dynamic, 00:04:29.441 --> 00:04:35.401 at least internally to me, where I'm really aware of this, and this. 00:04:35.401 --> 00:04:38.441 The fact that there's a microphone pointed right at our faces. 00:04:38.441 --> 00:04:47.820 And I still, like, I still don't feel like the podcast has got the best of me. 00:04:48.041 --> 00:04:51.250 Like it's not got the best of what's inside of me. Right, like. 00:04:51.801 --> 00:04:56.939 Because some of the conversations that we have in private without the cameras and the microphones, 00:04:57.121 --> 00:05:04.987 I feel like have been really helpful, really like good stuff. 00:05:05.101 --> 00:05:09.081 And that was kind of one of the initial reasons that we wanted to do this was like, 00:05:09.081 --> 00:05:17.221 man, we often have some, you know, off the microphone conversations that we feel like would be valuable 00:05:17.321 --> 00:05:19.801 if we could just press an internal recording button. 00:05:20.282 --> 00:05:29.095 Right. So still trying to grab onto that dynamic of like how to podcast in a uncut way. 00:05:31.601 --> 00:05:35.201 Knowing that it's actually cut. Yeah. 00:05:35.201 --> 00:05:42.641 I mean, very, you know, it is cut in its own like. We've never cut out content in order to. 00:05:42.641 --> 00:05:48.121 I don't think so. No, I mean, a little bit of post editing. Yeah, I think like for the most part, 00:05:48.121 --> 00:05:52.081 you're sitting through like a solid stream of consciousness. 00:05:52.081 --> 00:05:58.081 We're not even editing out ums and breaks in our thoughts and things like that. 00:05:58.081 --> 00:06:02.281 I think there's maybe been once or twice, like maybe one of us needed to go to the bathroom 00:06:02.281 --> 00:06:11.841 or answer the door or something, had to stop, but. So my commitment is to try and do a better job of. 00:06:13.792 --> 00:06:20.882 Not guarding what I say, and just opening, just continuing to open up a little bit 00:06:20.882 --> 00:06:25.089 and let the cards just kind of fall where they do in conversation, right? 00:06:25.282 --> 00:06:28.882 I find it's really hard, like that's, I mean, it's really hard to do that 00:06:28.882 --> 00:06:33.882 because like, I mean, the buzz pop psychology word, 00:06:34.522 --> 00:06:36.099 is like imposter syndrome, right? 00:06:36.562 --> 00:06:40.726 But I'm always just like, I don't know, do I actually know anything? 00:06:41.924 --> 00:06:46.482 Right. Or do people care about the things that I know? Yeah, 00:06:46.642 --> 00:06:50.701 that too. So like, I mean, I, 00:06:51.882 --> 00:06:54.842 like there's, I was talking to someone about this actually just this, 00:06:55.042 --> 00:07:01.442 just like two days ago, uh, we were talking about what it takes to be an expert at things, you know, 00:07:01.462 --> 00:07:06.122 and there's like the law of 10,000, you know, 10,000 hours or, 00:07:06.734 --> 00:07:08.802 what the, the, 00:07:09.642 --> 00:07:17.762 The arena that I talk about that a lot in is the is in jiu-jitsu a lot of people know that I'm I do jiu-jitsu and, 00:07:18.682 --> 00:07:23.342 I Tell my students all the time that if you want to get good at a particular technique, 00:07:24.495 --> 00:07:26.800 plan on 10,000 reps, 00:07:27.979 --> 00:07:32.802 Like there's no there's no substitute to repetitions and 00:07:32.802 --> 00:07:38.002 So we got to talking about like, okay. Well, what are the areas in my life where there's like, 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:41.366 you've reached expert level and. 00:07:43.634 --> 00:07:54.572 You know you could take it in a lot of different ways and usually people are not experts at something unless there have been extraordinarily dedicated or Obsessed even yeah, 00:07:55.616 --> 00:08:02.322 when they're young or they're just older and and the longevity of them doing something 00:08:02.322 --> 00:08:05.002 has just amassed an expert level. 00:08:05.510 --> 00:08:11.937 So things like, say what are the things that I've been doing the longest in life? 00:08:12.162 --> 00:08:14.719 The three things I've been doing the longest while I've been pastoring. 00:08:17.442 --> 00:08:22.442 Be going into my 19th year, into my 19th year right now. 00:08:24.442 --> 00:08:29.122 Which seems really, really strange to say I don't feel like I've been old enough, 00:08:29.122 --> 00:08:31.602 I'm not old enough to do anything for 19 years. 00:08:33.602 --> 00:08:39.205 But also being married. I just had my 19th wedding anniversary to my wife. 00:08:39.882 --> 00:08:43.862 And then the third is jujitsu, which I've been doing for 18 years. 00:08:43.862 --> 00:08:48.862 So there is some imposter syndrome, always. 00:08:49.594 --> 00:08:54.815 But there also is some areas where... 00:08:54.419 --> 00:09:05.123 Like, no, we've actually put in a lot of time and had a lot of experiences and have really, I think, decent perspective, 00:09:05.989 --> 00:09:09.109 or had an opportunity to see so many different perspectives 00:09:09.109 --> 00:09:13.900 that we at least have an educated opinion on something. 00:09:14.109 --> 00:09:18.589 Well, and, you know, like, one of the things, like you mentioned pastoring, 00:09:18.589 --> 00:09:23.469 and I'm like, yeah, like, you know, I've not been professionally pastoring for a long time. 00:09:23.469 --> 00:09:29.949 I think I've been doing more... I've been studying the Bible for a very long time, 00:09:29.949 --> 00:09:33.709 been reading about the Bible and theology for a very long time, been preaching. 00:09:35.069 --> 00:09:41.240 Much longer than I've been a pastor. But then I was thinking about, I was like, you know, the other 00:09:41.469 --> 00:09:48.509 piece, there's certainly things that you can only grow in your skill set while being a pastor and 00:09:48.509 --> 00:09:54.669 overseeing a church. But then there's things like that personal self-work, like working through, 00:09:55.517 --> 00:10:03.229 your relationship with God, going through different seasons, kind of working on yourself, 00:10:04.109 --> 00:10:08.669 helping other people and kind of being with them through difficult times, like all of that stuff. 00:10:09.949 --> 00:10:16.109 When you scaffold out what is contained inside of the skill set of a pastor. So you mentioned those 00:10:16.109 --> 00:10:22.829 three things. I'm like, well, Cameron's also really good at incisively understanding what's, 00:10:23.389 --> 00:10:28.029 going on inside of someone's heart. I don't know if everyone's told you that before, but that's, 00:10:28.589 --> 00:10:32.509 something I think you're very good at. There's been several times where I've seen you either 00:10:32.509 --> 00:10:36.669 in conversation with someone or in conversation with me, and you're able to just go. 00:10:37.549 --> 00:10:43.309 Whoop, and just point right at what is the core of the issue. Or you have a good way of 00:10:43.309 --> 00:10:52.349 kind of, you know, taking, you know, what's, uh, put it like in a, an example, I guess, like, 00:10:52.466 --> 00:10:57.469 you know, if you ever see a kid who like falls and hits their knee and scrapes their knee and 00:10:57.469 --> 00:11:00.669 they start crying, you know, and they're like, mommy, kiss it or whatever, make the boo-boo 00:11:00.669 --> 00:11:05.629 go better or whatever. Well, the kid's not actually physically hurt. They're having like 00:11:05.629 --> 00:11:11.524 an emotional thing. And, and you have a really good way of when people, or when, you know, 00:11:11.632 --> 00:11:15.389 when someone comes to you and they're like, I want to talk about this theological issue, 00:11:15.389 --> 00:11:21.309 or I want to talk about you, this life issue I'm coming up against, or this thing, you're like, 00:11:21.660 --> 00:11:27.035 you know what, that thing, the thing is probably not the thing, it's probably this thing. And you 00:11:27.229 --> 00:11:32.829 have a good way of getting to that. And that's indicative of doing your own personal work and 00:11:32.829 --> 00:11:37.629 things like that. So I do think that there's even more scaffolding. 00:11:37.629 --> 00:11:41.629 Right, you're right, yeah, so it's not just like the work of pastoring. 00:11:42.572 --> 00:11:47.702 It's all of these multidisciplinary things that are involved there. 00:11:47.702 --> 00:11:54.167 And so even if you talk about, well, all right, let's say we work 40 hours a week. 00:11:55.662 --> 00:12:00.022 And yeah, that might be what we work, but I know from my experience, 00:12:00.022 --> 00:12:06.702 I know this is true in yours, that the thought process of ministry is almost nonstop. 00:12:06.942 --> 00:12:17.382 Is almost nonstop. Is it very, very rarely am I not thinking about something having to do with ministry or church 00:12:17.382 --> 00:12:20.490 or pastoring or the people I'm serving or whatever. 00:12:20.751 --> 00:12:28.022 But if you were just to take the raw hours, 40 hours across 52 weeks in a year, 00:12:28.022 --> 00:12:30.419 in a year you're talking about almost, 00:12:31.662 --> 00:12:38.102 don't ever do math in public, of 20,080, or not 20,000, 2,080 hours a year. 00:12:40.342 --> 00:12:47.222 So after five years of pastoring, you're essentially have reached that magical 00:12:47.222 --> 00:12:49.302 Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours. 00:12:49.302 --> 00:12:54.142 Right, which some people have challenged, but it's still generally a good principle. 00:12:54.142 --> 00:12:59.102 So five years, so that means I'm actually coming up on five years here for myself 00:12:59.102 --> 00:13:00.712 being in a full-time pastoral role. 00:13:00.782 --> 00:13:05.294 Yeah, I mean, and I would say that there's time in. 00:13:08.422 --> 00:13:18.483 I would say, shouldn't discount time training for pastoral ministry as the same thing. 00:13:20.942 --> 00:13:26.662 And then there's always the caveats of like, well, there's been many weeks where I've worked 60 hours 00:13:26.662 --> 00:13:29.339 or 80 hours, right, versus 40. 00:13:29.462 --> 00:13:33.502 Heaven, I don't think there's been that many hours we've done 80, or weeks we've done 80 hours. 00:13:33.502 --> 00:13:37.675 Very rare, very rare in my ministry has there ever been a week where I've done, 00:13:38.302 --> 00:13:43.422 something like that, but there has been. It's rare though, so. 00:13:43.716 --> 00:13:48.902 But anyway, I think we said all that to talk about how we've been feeling about the podcast. 00:13:48.902 --> 00:13:50.180 And I was on vacation. 00:13:50.846 --> 00:13:56.481 A week and a half ago, two weeks ago, something like that. And you had an experience podcasting, 00:13:57.096 --> 00:13:59.176 that was different than this. 00:13:59.176 --> 00:14:06.896 The conversation back and forth. Yeah, so I sat down to start another podcast. 00:14:08.148 --> 00:14:11.896 Here at Conduit called Rooted. 00:14:11.896 --> 00:14:18.114 The podcast name on both YouTube and where you listen to podcasts is Rooted Life Change. 00:14:18.996 --> 00:14:25.955 Um, so if you're familiar conduit, uh, you might not be, you might've heard of rooted before. 00:14:26.256 --> 00:14:32.688 Um, but you've probably not encountered it on any of your socials or in a podcast world 00:14:32.956 --> 00:14:33.454 or anything like that. 00:14:33.956 --> 00:14:38.816 So, so let's talk. So it was a, it was a monologue podcast. Yep. 00:14:38.816 --> 00:14:45.756 It's just me, which is much different than this. It's a lot easier to have a conversation with somebody over a microphone than it is for 00:14:45.756 --> 00:14:48.316 me to just talk into a microphone. 00:14:48.316 --> 00:14:56.796 Was a unique experience, but yeah. Did you manuscript that? I have all my main primary 00:14:56.796 --> 00:15:02.796 thoughts and stuff written out in the notes and stuff that I've been using when I was teaching 00:15:02.796 --> 00:15:08.396 the group and leading the group. And so I just had a copy of that in front of me on my phone. 00:15:09.544 --> 00:15:15.596 To glance down to remind myself of what maybe the topic was. Maybe there was an illustration in 00:15:15.596 --> 00:15:19.716 in there I used, but there were, some of it was also just off the top of my head 00:15:19.716 --> 00:15:21.176 as I was talking about it. 00:15:21.176 --> 00:15:27.496 I've tried to use teleprompter apps on like iPads and stuff like that to do videos and stuff like that. 00:15:27.496 --> 00:15:31.590 And as much as I wanna make it work because I feel like, well, if I can type out 00:15:31.696 --> 00:15:35.164 what I actually wanna say, it'll be better. It's just so hard to do that. 00:15:35.296 --> 00:15:40.403 But it's so hard to not seem like you're reading and following the next line. 00:15:40.576 --> 00:15:46.363 Right. Like avoiding teleprompter voice is so hard. Yeah, yeah. 00:15:46.556 --> 00:15:51.836 And also, if you're gonna do it with an app, you get this weird back and forth 00:15:51.916 --> 00:15:55.316 between looking at the camera and looking at the teleprompter, 00:15:55.316 --> 00:15:59.596 unless you have like a- And like setting it up so the iPad is right behind the camera 00:15:59.596 --> 00:16:01.756 so you're looking at the, whatever. 00:16:01.756 --> 00:16:11.137 Yeah, no, that's. But anyway, so it is a monologue podcast that is called Rooted Life Change, 00:16:11.236 --> 00:16:17.358 and this is coming out of a ministry that you started here at Conduit, 00:16:17.476 --> 00:16:22.476 and a little bit of backstory or history, 00:16:23.836 --> 00:16:29.876 to that particular ministry, and then I'm gonna let Luke talk about it a little bit more is that... 00:16:31.986 --> 00:16:40.178 You know, we have a strong belief here at Conduit that the, I would say it's more of the strong belief. 00:16:40.576 --> 00:16:47.256 That sounds even more clinical than I want it to be, but like, we actually have this crazy, crazy perspective 00:16:47.256 --> 00:16:50.536 that the gospel of Jesus Christ changes people's lives. 00:16:52.776 --> 00:17:00.456 And not just their spiritual life or their eternal destiny, but every thread of the fabric of their being 00:17:00.456 --> 00:17:02.045 could be changed by the power of the gospel. 00:17:03.496 --> 00:17:12.936 And so when we are, when people are struggling with an emotional issue or a mental issue or a physical issue 00:17:12.936 --> 00:17:14.176 or a spiritual issue, 00:17:14.176 --> 00:17:19.176 or we do believe that the gospel has healing power, 00:17:20.676 --> 00:17:30.076 in all of those situations, and that's not to give kind of like the pat spiritual answer of like, 00:17:30.076 --> 00:17:32.256 well, if you're addicted, all you need to do 00:17:32.464 --> 00:17:39.764 is be more spiritual, or just believe in the gospel, and you will be completely freed from that addiction. 00:17:39.827 --> 00:17:46.489 I do believe that the power of the gospel will lead to, can lead to freedom from addiction for sure, 00:17:46.776 --> 00:17:50.693 but it's often a little bit more nuanced than that. 00:17:52.456 --> 00:18:01.416 But anyway, and so you coming on board here, recognizing that dynamic that we have here at Conduit, 00:18:01.776 --> 00:18:12.218 also your role as associate pastor, but really focused on discipleship and moving people from one position in either pre-gospel 00:18:12.536 --> 00:18:15.774 or to living a life. 00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:22.030 Fully transformed by the presence of Jesus, is like, okay, we see these things, 00:18:22.030 --> 00:18:25.190 how do we begin, we see these things evident in people's lives, 00:18:25.190 --> 00:18:27.116 how do we begin to offer, 00:18:28.230 --> 00:18:32.750 from the perspective, from a gospel center perspective, a place where these people can find support 00:18:32.750 --> 00:18:38.162 and encouragement, community, and healing, and a process to grow in? 00:18:38.790 --> 00:18:46.543 There's lots of different programs out there. like that, you know, like some of the more, 00:18:46.790 --> 00:18:50.567 like, I would say well-known ones, 00:18:52.250 --> 00:18:57.890 are Celebrate Recovery, which comes from out of California Saddleback Community Church. 00:18:59.110 --> 00:19:05.295 There's one that kind of had a little bit of life cycle here in Chautauqua County for a while, 00:19:05.670 --> 00:19:09.292 started by Tracy and Daryl Strawberry. 00:19:09.630 --> 00:19:15.026 Daryl Strawberry, as in the baseball player and his wife, called Clean, Sober, and Saved. 00:19:17.550 --> 00:19:21.481 I don't have a whole lot of familiarity with it other than to know that it exists. 00:19:23.230 --> 00:19:24.630 There's a few others. 00:19:24.630 --> 00:19:33.630 Yeah, I think there's one that's called Life Transformation that I've interacted with, and that one's pretty good. 00:19:33.630 --> 00:19:45.270 Yeah, and then there's obviously programs like AA, NA, stuff like that, Al-Anon. There's Coda, which is a really kind of interesting one. 00:19:45.886 --> 00:19:51.350 I don't think I know Coda. Coda is Codependence Anonymous. Oh, okay, yeah. 00:19:53.304 --> 00:19:56.390 And I've seen some really good stuff actually come out of there because I think, 00:19:57.265 --> 00:20:00.092 more people tend to be codependent than they do addicted. 00:20:00.263 --> 00:20:05.510 Right, well, or codependency is wrapped up in their addiction. Yeah, or vice versa. 00:20:06.042 --> 00:20:08.491 Yeah. And. Yeah. 00:20:09.994 --> 00:20:18.764 So, anyway, began to utilize some of those materials, some of those already pre-existing things, 00:20:09.994 --> 00:20:10.590 you. 00:20:18.764 --> 00:20:23.764 And realized that, or not that we realized, 00:20:24.284 --> 00:20:31.438 but we felt like it was not hitting the mark that we kind of hoped it would. 00:20:31.724 --> 00:20:38.657 Can you talk a little bit about how, not talking bad about those programs, 00:20:38.924 --> 00:20:45.337 about where it felt like the discontinuity was between what we wanted to be able to offer, 00:20:45.924 --> 00:20:48.308 and what was being offered. 00:20:48.452 --> 00:20:53.924 Yeah, well, so one of the things is in the recovery landscape, what I've come to find 00:20:53.924 --> 00:20:57.994 is that 12 steps really dominate. 00:20:58.327 --> 00:21:02.964 And that's not a bad thing, it's just the fact that they've been very, very successful, right? 00:21:04.179 --> 00:21:15.444 And have helped a lot of people get sober, make significant life change and improvement in their life. And there's nothing that I found in 00:21:15.444 --> 00:21:20.324 the 12 steps that I thought was particularly, in the steps themselves, that I thought was 00:21:20.324 --> 00:21:27.604 particularly wrong or unhelpful or anything like it. It's all really good stuff. But a lot of times 00:21:27.604 --> 00:21:33.124 what a lot of programs try and do is they take the 12 steps and then they say, okay, well, where are 00:21:33.124 --> 00:21:40.244 the 12 steps in the Bible. And so it's kind of, uh, and the thing is, and we talked, we've talked 00:21:40.244 --> 00:21:45.284 about the Bible a number of times on the podcast and we, you know, our view on the Bible is that 00:21:45.284 --> 00:21:51.684 the Bible isn't really a manual of sorts. It's, it's primarily about revelation of God, of who 00:21:51.684 --> 00:21:56.275 God is, who we are in our relationship together. Um, and- 00:21:56.724 --> 00:22:01.844 Do you mean the Bible doesn't mean basic instructions before leaving earth, B-I-B-L-E? 00:22:01.844 --> 00:22:05.044 No, it doesn't, Cameron. That's not what the Greek means. 00:22:08.084 --> 00:22:16.324 Yeah, that is not what that means. And so, it's not an instruction manual, and it wasn't written. 00:22:20.484 --> 00:22:27.684 With the intention of putting the 12 steps in there. Or something that kind of bugs me 00:22:27.684 --> 00:22:35.504 is, you know, a lot of people who will write in like kind of the Christian 00:22:35.504 --> 00:22:42.079 self-help or the Christian counseling world is they'll take a secular 00:22:41.259 --> 00:22:48.101 counseling kind of scheme. One, for example, would be kind of like attachment theory. So, 00:22:48.309 --> 00:22:51.589 if anyone's listening, you know what attachment theory is. It's got to do with, like, 00:22:51.589 --> 00:22:57.269 how secure you feel in the relationships that you make intimately. And they'll go and they'll try 00:22:57.269 --> 00:23:03.509 and show how Jesus has a secure relationship style. And I'm like, I don't think the gospel 00:23:03.509 --> 00:23:09.589 writers were at all trying to communicate how Jesus had a secure attachment style, 00:23:09.589 --> 00:23:15.829 and he wasn't anxious or whatever, that's over-reading. We're putting something onto the 00:23:15.829 --> 00:23:22.949 Bible that isn't necessarily there. And so, that all, we were just talking about, there's one thing 00:23:22.949 --> 00:23:27.349 that I've been doing for a very long time, and that's been reading and studying the Bible. 00:23:28.170 --> 00:23:35.189 And so, when I'm interacting with resources like that, and they maybe have a verse, and they're 00:23:35.189 --> 00:23:43.109 like, this verse shows this, or it backs this particular step up. I was like, actually, I don't 00:23:43.109 --> 00:23:50.629 think that that's a good application of that Bible verse. What that is kind of like, the common word 00:23:50.629 --> 00:23:59.189 for that is kind of proof texting, which is like, what I mean by that is like the smash and grab. 00:23:59.189 --> 00:24:02.189 You have something, you have a point that you want to make. 00:24:03.999 --> 00:24:11.849 So you go and find a Bible verse that you can kind of cajole into making your point. Right. 00:24:11.849 --> 00:24:17.609 We call it eisegesis, taking our meaning and placing it over top of the text. 00:24:18.538 --> 00:24:23.209 Rather than allowing meaning to come out of the text and inform the step. 00:24:23.255 --> 00:24:30.729 Right. And so not all proof texting is absolutely terrible. Like sometimes you can actually honor 00:24:30.729 --> 00:24:35.129 the passage actually means what you're saying it means as you put it next to the thing that 00:24:35.129 --> 00:24:40.729 you're talking about. But that's not always the case. Like if you just do a Google search, 00:24:40.900 --> 00:24:46.569 or say you just search your Bible, and you look for keywords, right, just because you find a 00:24:46.569 --> 00:24:53.512 keyword or an idea does not necessarily mean that that is being uplifted or held up, right? 00:24:53.769 --> 00:25:01.849 One of the passages, or one of the portions of the Bible that often gets used, that sometimes 00:25:01.849 --> 00:25:07.929 gets used, and any time I see it get used, I'm a little nervous, and that's the book of Job. 00:25:08.383 --> 00:25:14.329 Because a lot of people will pull a quote out of Job. Well, Job has like three or four different 00:25:14.329 --> 00:25:20.889 people making dialogues, and the thing about Job is that not all the people who are saying things 00:25:20.889 --> 00:25:28.329 are necessarily meant to be agreed with. They're kind of putting forth their own logic, and the 00:25:28.329 --> 00:25:34.329 Book of Job is kind of arguing with them. And so, if you pull a quote out of Job, and it's like one 00:25:34.329 --> 00:25:40.809 of the three friends, and they're like making this long point, you're not necessarily guaranteed to 00:25:40.809 --> 00:25:46.249 say that the passage is even meaning for you to agree with that. They might be meaning for you to 00:25:46.249 --> 00:25:50.307 disagree with what that person's ultimately saying. 00:25:51.126 --> 00:25:58.656 So there was that, but then also we were talking about not wanting to just simply say, 00:25:58.656 --> 00:26:04.496 okay, just pray it away. Like, oh, you've got a serious addiction or a relationship problem, 00:26:04.496 --> 00:26:11.536 just pray more about it. Because I've not met a Christian with an addiction who hasn't prayed 00:26:11.536 --> 00:26:21.456 about it, right? And so we don't want to just be simplistic, we want to actually bring the 00:26:21.456 --> 00:26:29.616 helpful things from 12 Steps and from other modes of thought like acceptance and commitment therapy 00:26:29.616 --> 00:26:36.256 and things like that, and say what is really wise here, what's really helpful about human nature, 00:26:36.256 --> 00:26:43.376 and then bring that alongside a more robust and holistic understanding of the Bible and 00:26:43.376 --> 00:26:48.176 its theology, and then have the two kind of come together and kind of work on that. So, 00:26:48.176 --> 00:26:53.216 yeah, that was kind of my heart when I started writing stuff for Rooted. 00:26:53.413 --> 00:26:58.816 Yeah, and we decided to name it Rooted. 00:26:59.075 --> 00:27:04.324 Yeah, we decided to name it that, which you helped me, I was really wrestling with what 00:27:04.656 --> 00:27:09.216 to name it. And I cannot, can't remember any of the really bad names that I was 00:27:09.216 --> 00:27:15.540 trying to come up with. Unless you do. I don't. 00:27:16.216 --> 00:27:20.136 I don't remember either. No, they weren't. They were, I mean, I mean, that's, 00:27:20.176 --> 00:27:22.896 that tells you how bad they were. Is that like, you know, 00:27:22.936 --> 00:27:26.416 the name we'd landed on was good enough that I forgot all the other potential 00:27:26.416 --> 00:27:33.576 names. So, but we were kind of, of, um... 00:27:34.895 --> 00:27:42.425 I was reflecting and thinking through how does the Bible match up with this? I was wrestling 00:27:42.425 --> 00:27:49.945 with the theology and wanted to not just resort to smattering a whole bunch of passages together, 00:27:49.945 --> 00:27:55.865 but I wanted there to be a connection, like a through line. And then that was when I discovered 00:27:55.934 --> 00:28:07.065 trees in the Bible. I listened to, listened to, or watched, or I don't exactly remember how I 00:28:07.065 --> 00:28:15.785 discovered, but I somehow got into, well, I know the Bible Project, which is a website and- 00:28:15.785 --> 00:28:19.145 LRS YouTube page and podcast and all that, yeah. 00:28:19.412 --> 00:28:24.905 That you and I have both listened to. We use it in some of our teaching resources and things like 00:28:24.905 --> 00:28:34.105 that. And they had a, I don't know, seven-episode run on their podcast. It was a couple years back, 00:28:34.105 --> 00:28:39.825 but I somehow stumbled onto it, and they were talking about the theme of trees in the Bible. 00:28:40.027 --> 00:28:47.785 And I had never sat and really thought about how many trees are in the Bible and their significance 00:28:47.785 --> 00:28:55.259 and some of the theological understanding that kind of comes out of that. And I was like, 00:28:55.682 --> 00:28:58.025 trees. I was all about trees. And you were just like- 00:28:58.886 --> 00:28:59.760 What are you talking about? 00:29:00.219 --> 00:29:04.738 Yeah. Well, yeah, anybody in the office, my wife, pretty much anybody who I could get to 00:29:04.945 --> 00:29:10.865 listen to me was just going like, Luke, you have gone off your rocker. You're like, 00:29:11.229 --> 00:29:13.105 I'm like, trees, man. Trees are everywhere. 00:29:13.105 --> 00:29:21.662 It's all about trees. Yeah, but that's kind of what led to it, it's like, all right, well. 00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:32.078 The theme of trees, and there's lots of conversation going on about like why, why would trees be an apt, 00:29:33.089 --> 00:29:38.089 illustration or visualization for this type of program, 00:29:39.009 --> 00:29:44.009 but it's kind of like its own podcast series there too. 00:29:46.769 --> 00:29:53.489 But just in this like sense of rootedness in God's word. Yep, yep, a sense of kind of groundedness. 00:29:53.489 --> 00:29:56.069 Groundedness, yeah, a rootedness and connection. 00:29:58.889 --> 00:30:06.529 Because there's like, you kind of picture, picture in your mind when you look up the picture, 00:30:06.529 --> 00:30:13.569 like you do a Google image search for tree with roots, and you get this kind of cross section of tree, right? 00:30:13.569 --> 00:30:17.953 And it's got this, usually trees have a pretty significant tap root. 00:30:19.034 --> 00:30:27.532 Yep. right, the main structure that goes deep into the ground and pulls a lot of nutrients, right? 00:30:27.689 --> 00:30:34.536 And then you have all of these, what I'll call capillary roots that go out wide. 00:30:34.809 --> 00:30:44.249 And it kind of, for me, visualizes or encapsulates like the modality of the whole program 00:30:44.249 --> 00:30:48.009 is like the taproot is the gospel, right? 00:30:48.009 --> 00:30:54.890 It is like it goes deep into the soil. It's firmly connected to the trunk, right? 00:30:55.649 --> 00:31:01.083 But then you have the, and that's where we are the experts in, right? 00:31:01.249 --> 00:31:03.649 It's the gospel, that's what we have, right? 00:31:03.649 --> 00:31:10.809 Similar to what Peter and John said to the crippled beggar at the beautiful gate. 00:31:10.809 --> 00:31:14.509 Yeah, silver and gold I do not have, but that which I do have I give to you 00:31:14.509 --> 00:31:19.052 in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Get up and walk. at the gospel, that's what they gave him. 00:31:21.389 --> 00:31:24.829 So the gospel's kind of like the taproot of the root structures, but then all of these 00:31:24.829 --> 00:31:31.421 little capillary roots are all these, some of them clinically based, some of them socially based, 00:31:31.589 --> 00:31:36.589 but corollary, parallel ways in which we can offer, 00:31:39.509 --> 00:31:47.463 support, help, resources, encouragement, therapies. So like you mentioned, acceptance commitment therapy, 00:31:47.709 --> 00:31:51.469 cognitive behavioral therapy, maybe some attachment therapy in there. 00:31:51.469 --> 00:31:54.800 And like we're not therapists, we're not trying to be. 00:31:55.749 --> 00:32:01.369 But to borrow concepts from them, the 12 steps, to borrow concepts from them, 00:32:02.549 --> 00:32:13.509 to create a fully rooted structure where someone can grow, produce fruit, 00:32:13.509 --> 00:32:15.849 in their lives. You know, and be. 00:32:20.294 --> 00:32:23.059 Kind of set free from, you know, the bondage that they're in. 00:32:23.059 --> 00:32:32.659 Paul Yep. And it calls to my mind literally what we were talking about last night. We had our class on the Psalms here at Conduit and. 00:32:34.275 --> 00:32:39.595 We kind of finished the night off by looking at Psalm 1. And the image there is like, you know, 00:32:39.939 --> 00:32:45.539 blessed is the man who meditates on the word of the Lord who is delighting in it, who's not 00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:51.619 walking the way of sinners, sitting in the seat of scoffers, right? And he is like a tree. 00:32:53.017 --> 00:33:00.259 Firmly planted by a stream of living water, bearing fruit in season. Everything he does 00:33:00.336 --> 00:33:09.619 prospers. Not so the wicked. They are like chaff. And so, you get this picture of the firmly 00:33:09.619 --> 00:33:17.619 planted tree, rooted and thriving, and then... 00:33:17.619 --> 00:33:24.059 Want a Bible? Yeah, there's a Bible over here. And then you've got chaff, which, like, 00:33:24.059 --> 00:33:30.089 calls to my mind, like, leaves or broken-off bark. Like, it is just the 00:33:30.459 --> 00:33:37.579 absolute opposite of what that picture of the Blessed Man is. And if anyone has 00:33:37.795 --> 00:33:46.059 dealt with an addiction or generational sin or patterns of behavior or hurt that 00:33:46.419 --> 00:33:50.419 they can't get past. Like you want to know what it feels like to be chaffed, 00:33:50.605 --> 00:33:56.779 blown around by everything? Like that's what it feels like. Yeah. Right. But in 00:33:56.779 --> 00:34:02.101 recovery there's a sense of stability that you gain. Yeah. And you can feel like, 00:34:02.875 --> 00:34:07.196 rooted in place, bearing fruit in season, right? 00:34:08.555 --> 00:34:16.568 For me, that just encapsulates where I hope people move from and to 00:34:16.659 --> 00:34:21.299 and in their connectedness to God and all of that. 00:34:21.299 --> 00:34:29.531 Yeah, so created a program and it looks like what most people would consider to be a curriculum 00:34:29.859 --> 00:34:31.880 that's to be run in a group setting. 00:34:34.979 --> 00:34:39.979 And supplementary resources to that group curriculum, 00:34:42.099 --> 00:34:49.419 is this podcast. Yes, yep. Or the Rooted Life Change podcast that you started, 00:34:50.379 --> 00:34:55.379 which is a podcast that's about the root of life change. 00:34:51.892 --> 00:34:54.622 So, if you're a part of conduit, or you're not a part of conduit, 00:34:54.622 --> 00:34:57.342 and you're interested in maybe participating in Rooted. 00:34:58.502 --> 00:35:06.377 It's not just for people who are drug addicted, alcohol addicted, no, it's for people who 00:35:06.502 --> 00:35:12.742 maybe are dealing with hurts, hangups, and habits, or who's the person that could benefit from it? 00:35:12.742 --> 00:35:19.582 Yeah, so like the way I talk about it is, and see if I can remember how I've phrased everything, 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:48.582 You know what, I'm gonna pull it up just so I don't mess it up, but what we're trying to kind of do is like, and it might seem kind of straight, excuse me, strange to kind of think about like, what's kind of kind of going on inside of our, like, why, why would I also want to listen to a podcast that somebody who's. 00:35:49.678 --> 00:35:54.908 Addicted to, say, alcohol or pornography. I don't have those problems. 00:35:55.061 --> 00:35:55.376 Right. 00:35:55.556 --> 00:36:02.702 Right? Those are real problems. Those are real problems. My problem, my shopping problem, or the amount of time 00:36:02.702 --> 00:36:09.582 I spend on my phone, those are not problems, right? And the thing is that there's probably 00:36:09.582 --> 00:36:18.620 actually a lot more in common than you think. One of the things that people like— 00:36:18.692 --> 00:36:21.510 Because we're talking about the roots. 00:36:21.717 --> 00:36:29.742 The roots, right. So those are typically the things that are manifesting on the surface, our addictions. 00:36:29.742 --> 00:36:38.425 Like things, alcohol or drugs or my phone or shopping or gambling or porn or whatever it is. 00:36:38.551 --> 00:36:44.574 Like most of us think, oh, I've just got a porn problem. Oh, I've just got an alcohol problem. 00:36:44.682 --> 00:36:51.469 Well, no, like those things are, like if you watch the old classic Looney Tunes. 00:36:52.782 --> 00:37:02.407 And, you know, Elmer Fudd gets hit on the head with something, and then this big bump pops out. 00:37:02.542 --> 00:37:02.840 Yep. 00:37:03.662 --> 00:37:07.542 Right? And he takes that bump, because he doesn't want anyone to see it, 00:37:08.025 --> 00:37:09.022 and he pushes it back in. 00:37:09.022 --> 00:37:14.622 Yep. Right? And then what do we see happen? Then it goes, boink, off the other side, right? 00:37:14.622 --> 00:37:22.158 So that bump coming out the other side of the head is the addiction or is the hang up or whatever, 00:37:22.542 --> 00:37:26.902 but it's not, it's the symptom of getting knocked in the head, right? 00:37:26.902 --> 00:37:35.502 So these things are, they're indicative of internal problems and we've used these things or we've resorted 00:37:35.502 --> 00:37:39.686 to these other things to help soothe, numb the internal. 00:37:49.624 --> 00:37:56.834 Things that we feel, that bad thing we want to get rid of, why wouldn't we want to numb 00:37:56.834 --> 00:37:58.754 down the bad things that are happening? 00:37:58.754 --> 00:38:05.314 Like Brene Brown, one of the things that she says about stuff like that is, I think, really, 00:38:05.314 --> 00:38:12.474 really powerful, is that we do not possess the ability to selectively numb. 00:38:12.474 --> 00:38:21.816 So if we choose to numb the bad things, we're also choosing to numb the good things, joy, 00:38:22.034 --> 00:38:23.394 happiness, fulfillment. 00:38:23.394 --> 00:38:28.874 So we can't selectively, as human beings, we can't selectively numb the bad things. 00:38:29.014 --> 00:38:37.034 We just numb everything, right? And it's like when you have a tooth pulled and they stick a needle in your gums, it's 00:38:37.034 --> 00:38:38.083 not like just that spot. 00:38:38.554 --> 00:38:42.514 Because now the whole side of your face feels like it's melting off for the rest of the day. 00:38:42.514 --> 00:38:45.861 You know? Yeah, right, and you're drooling everywhere. 00:38:45.994 --> 00:38:54.278 So, what's your, how do you communicate who rooted is appropriate for? I say break cycles. 00:38:55.034 --> 00:38:59.914 Breaking cycles. Finding healing and making life change. Making life change, yeah. 00:39:00.594 --> 00:39:06.474 So that can be, that can be laid over top all kinds of things. 00:39:06.474 --> 00:39:18.314 A whole tons of things. And the thing is, if you hang around anybody who's successfully gone through an AA program. 00:39:21.114 --> 00:39:28.794 They'll tell you, I showed up thinking I had a drinking problem, found out that I have a living 00:39:28.794 --> 00:39:32.874 problem. Yeah. Right. It's like, yeah, 00:39:32.954 --> 00:39:37.219 the amount of alcohol they consumed and all of that, like is certainly a problem, 00:39:37.777 --> 00:39:41.914 but there was a greater problem underneath. And the thing that sure, 00:39:41.914 --> 00:39:46.914 you might not share the same particular weakness or problem that somebody else 00:39:47.074 --> 00:39:53.144 who you think has it worse off or I'm not that bad, or I don't need that kind of help. 00:39:53.754 --> 00:39:59.104 The thing is is actually what's going on underneath it for both of you is probably a lot more similar than you would think. 00:40:00.175 --> 00:40:05.154 Yeah, right. So there's the actual program of the curriculum, 00:40:05.154 --> 00:40:08.448 and groups forming here at Conduit soon. 00:40:10.354 --> 00:40:20.474 We've already done a group, but it goes in cycles. So new groups be forming soon for that program. 00:40:20.474 --> 00:40:33.303 And then this kind of a supplementary source or podcast. The podcast is kind of going to act as like one a place for me to kind of just talk through what, 00:40:33.834 --> 00:40:40.874 I've been thinking through and in writing out and act as kind of a bit of a reach, 00:40:40.874 --> 00:40:42.874 but also just to try and. 00:40:44.304 --> 00:40:53.333 Gather a community, kind of allow people a way to kind of stick their toe in the water a little bit. 00:40:53.396 --> 00:41:04.074 Because sometimes it's scary to come to a meeting and show up because like you're going 00:41:04.074 --> 00:41:07.434 to show up and there's a whole bunch of people and they're going to talk about their feelings 00:41:07.434 --> 00:41:10.492 and emotions and what's going on in their life and that's. 00:41:10.794 --> 00:41:16.874 I've been living my life as if there's no problems whatsoever. So if I show up to this meeting, right are people gonna go? 00:41:16.874 --> 00:41:25.214 Oh, oh, oh my gosh, right. I know they were having problems. Yes, and so, you know, this provides a little bit of, 00:41:25.976 --> 00:41:30.454 entryway You know allows people to kind of have a little bit more, 00:41:31.714 --> 00:41:38.794 access to it It's also just also a tool for me personally, you know, I want it to be a conversation 00:41:38.794 --> 00:41:42.954 I wanna be thinking through and hope people are able to interact with the content 00:41:42.954 --> 00:41:46.618 and we can kind of flesh more of it out as more people interact with it. 00:41:46.714 --> 00:41:47.743 Yeah, yeah. 00:41:48.354 --> 00:41:56.394 Great, so what we'll do is in the show notes for this episode, we will link 00:41:56.394 --> 00:41:59.644 the Rooted Life Change podcast as well. 00:42:01.074 --> 00:42:06.954 And go check it out, subscribe. Yep, so if you're listening to this podcast episode, 00:42:06.954 --> 00:42:09.456 we'll have two episodes coming out this week. 00:42:09.854 --> 00:42:16.574 Yes, yeah. So be looking for those. I think I'm gonna put them out on Tuesday and Wednesday of this week. 00:42:16.574 --> 00:42:22.254 Great. While you're listening. And there's, so there's, there's also, you have socials for it, right? 00:42:22.254 --> 00:42:26.228 Yeah, I do have a, there's an Instagram account, and it'll also be on YouTube. 00:42:26.334 --> 00:42:29.514 So if you're watching us on YouTube, you can still watch it there. So. 00:42:30.405 --> 00:42:39.956 Great. Yeah. Yeah, we'll be, it'll be, I'm excited for it, simply because I think it's really helpful content. 00:42:40.454 --> 00:42:49.012 I think it, you know, and some of it is born out of my own, like working through and trying to understand my own heart, 00:42:49.574 --> 00:42:56.934 understanding like what's my own like proclivities in sin nature and things like that. 00:42:58.494 --> 00:43:01.414 You know, so these first couple episodes we'll be talking about, 00:43:01.414 --> 00:43:07.654 Kind of like this principle I'm saying of like, what does it mean to live in the light? 00:43:08.655 --> 00:43:14.666 Was it mean to kind of step out of denial, right? If you're used to like 12-step language, 00:43:14.666 --> 00:43:21.466 you would say like the first step is admitting, right? Admitting that we are powerless to solve 00:43:21.466 --> 00:43:28.986 our problems. And this is, you know, talking about that idea of like how do we get stuck in denial 00:43:28.986 --> 00:43:34.266 and all of that. Yeah. And how does the light, bringing things out into the light, 00:43:35.104 --> 00:43:41.366 right, begin to give us freedom, Allah, first John, you know, in the gospel of John. 00:43:42.972 --> 00:43:49.526 Great, great. All right, well make sure you're looking forward to or looking for that, both that podcast 00:43:49.526 --> 00:43:52.086 and that YouTube channel, if you guys are interested in that. 00:43:52.086 --> 00:43:59.743 I think it's super valuable, valuable resource. I'm so like encouraged and proud of you. 00:44:00.527 --> 00:44:05.109 Of you for doing all that and it's not been a short project. 00:44:09.806 --> 00:44:14.806 Or we've expended a lot of time and effort there. 00:44:17.486 --> 00:44:24.644 So really grateful and proud of you for that and eager to see how it changes, 00:44:25.486 --> 00:44:30.286 works to change people's lives in the next few years here at Conduit and beyond. 00:44:30.576 --> 00:44:31.458 So make sure you're looking for it. 00:44:32.287 --> 00:44:37.286 And as always, please like this episode for us. 00:44:38.966 --> 00:44:47.329 Subscribe if you're not, share it, review it. Send us questions to our text line, 716-201-0507. 00:44:47.606 --> 00:44:50.948 And we will try and get them answered when we have mailbag episodes. 00:44:51.938 --> 00:44:53.766 Yep, and we'll see you all next time. Thanks.