Welcome back to Count Me In,
the podcast for management accountants making an impact in the business world.
I'm Neha Lagoo Ratnakar from IMA. Today I'm speaking with Aparna Iyer,
the treasurer and head of investor relations at vPro.
Aparna's career.
Got off to quite a promising start when she earned a gold medal for the highest
score on the exams by the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India.
She's gone on to hold many roles across the accounting and finance function at
vPro, and along the way,
she has constantly pushed herself out of a comfort zone to keep learning new
skills and developing her empowering approach to leadership.
We cover a lot of ground in this fascinating conversation from robotic process
automation to the benefits of ambition to how we might be working in the
Metaverse sooner than you think. Let's get started.
Welcome to Count Me in, Aparna.
It's such a pleasure to finally meet you for this conversation.
Thank you, Neha. It's an absolute pleasure,
and I'm looking forward to this conversation, actually.
Awesome.
So let's start with an obvious question that's been on my mind ever since I'm
knew about you. You joined vPro more than 19 years ago,
and our generation is infamous for job hopping, right?
Tell us more about your long and successful journey at vPro.
You know Neha, I'll just tell you briefly about myself.
You know my father worked in a nationalized banking in India,
and I in, you know, all the way up to 23 years when I joined vPro.
I have not stayed in a city more than two years because we've been always
hopping schools, colleges, you know, so for me, also,
I'm quite taken by surprise that I actually managed to spend 20 years
you know, in one place.
And I think the credit actually needs to go to the organization. Because,
you know, when I joined vPro, I was very impressionable, you know,
rearing to go. I think what vPro really does well is, you know,
it paces your career for you, right?
I don't spend more than about three years in a role give or take.
And every three years there is always something that's in the works for,
you know, what next, how can things get better, bigger? So in some sense,
I've been truly you know,
privileged and lucky that you know,
I got an opportunity to work through multiple roles, multiple leaders,
and the sector itself has evolved so much through these last
you know, 20 years. So much more complexity. So much more M & A. You know,
we've had you know in the last 10 years, you know,
we've had so many new leaders join in.
So the organization itself keeps changing. There's so much to learn and there's,
it's such a growing sector that I, you know,
I didn't even realize that I had spent 20 years.
The other thing that we project does well, and,
and is perhaps one of the bigger reasons for me staying back is
in vPro finance, we really build you know,
we hire people from campuses and then we build careers for them.
So all my peers are pretty much tenured in vPro,
and we have like a shared history. So the camaraderie,
the collaboration is just you know, off a very different level,
which all of us thoroughly enjoy. So I would say that you know,
other than what the organization puts in,
it's what my peers put in both in terms of the kind of benchmark they set,
how you know, enriching it is to work with them,
how it is to learn from them and, you know, really contribute in the process,
right? Like, work becomes fun when, you know, it's just extended family.
So I would say these are, you know, two reasons why you know, it just work.
And like they say, why fix something that's not broken?
Wow. And that's been quite a journey. Thanks for sharing it with us,
and I hope other companies are taking note of these excellent practices.
Yeah. Yeah.
So what has been your biggest challenge in your career so far?
Neha? You know, I think every time you take up a new role, you feel that,
oh my God, this is just so much more challenging than you know,
what I've ever done. But, you know,
truly I was most apprehensive about was coming back to work after I had
my daughter.
And that I think would have been perhaps the most challenging phase of
my career, because I was just coming back from a six month long break
at where I was doing something completely different, right?
And somehow when I joined back, and I never thought I would feel like that.
I felt very low on confidence,
and I wasn't sure whether this is what I wanted to do. Is this the purpose?
You know, I felt so overwhelmed you know,
taking care of a young baby and coming back to something very intensive at
you know, in the vPro finance, it was perhaps one of the,
you know, phases where I really needed help, right? From all my mentors,
from the organization, from my peers, from my reports. And thankfully,
you know, that that phase, you know,
lasted for about nine months to a year where you know,
I was just wanted to find my confidence again. And, you know,
once that happened, right? And time, with time every quarter,
it kept getting better. You know, all us finance professionals live quarter,
quarter, say quarter, like they say, right?
Three or four quarters under the belt, I was feeling a lot more confident,
again. So that I think was one of the most challenging phases because, you know,
I needed to find that balance and make sure, you know, I was getting it right.
So that was one point where I felt you know,
I really needed the support of the ecosystem.
The other part was when I, you know,
took on something like treasury and IR, you know, invest relations,
the current role that I did,
that I'm doing I took this on three years back and you know,
I'd not done treasury at all in the first,
you know 18 years or first 17 years of my career,
knew nothing about markets, hedging investments, and, you know,
we all are exposed to it as finance professionals, but I've not done it,
you know, with a KRI to exceed a certain benchmark.
Coming in and knowing when you know that you are the person who's perhaps
knows the least about that subject in the team, and yet you are the leader,
I think it poses very different challenges. So,
pushing myself out of the comfort zone, being okay with the fact that, you know,
for another six months,
I'm going to be the person who's gonna be least informed in a room,
and yet I had to lead it, yet I had to bring my perspective to it,
yet I had to understand and learn and, and work with people.
So I think that was also another challenging phase, right?
But it's only a matter of time, you know? You just need to apply yourself.
So that's the other myth I busted, right?
So a lot of them say they don't wanna try different things because they're just
so concerned that, you know, how will they add value?
What I really understood about adding value is
you, your, your vantage point can be so different,
and the value that you bring to the team or you bring to a function can be so
different. It may not always come from the tried and tested path,
You know the vantage point that you'll have is very different,
and you bring way different perspectives,
and you can always add value no matter what you do.
Cause everything else is just adjacent. So, you know,
those are very good learnings for me.
And it was challenging and I was very unsure and anxious many times,
but I think you had to give it some time and, you know, you lace it.
Wow. Thank, thank you for sharing your personal story so close to your heart,
and also finding your feet after motherhood, but also in new functions,
adding value with your diverse perspective.
Let's take a minute to talk about growing.
We talk a lot about future-proofing our careers.
What do you think are the competencies of future for the people in both
leadership positions and also for our listeners from accounting and finance
profession?
You know it isn't easy to future proof your career, right? I think,
and it is getting increasingly difficult. You know,
at least the first 10 years of my career, it, you know,
the world around me was not changing at the pace at which it is right now.
I think there is just so much more information.
There's so much more that some a professional can do today.
There are different ways of learning but, you know,
I think you know, to each their own. But if,
you know, I had a method to this whole madness,
it would be to just say that you must allocate a dedicated
time every week where you are reading.
And it could be a finance journal.
It could be something that you've signed up as a course for,
or it could be just reading a very you know,
it could be a newspaper that you subscribe to, which you must absolutely,
you know, absorb newer things, newer perspectives, newer point of view.
You must understand what's happening in the world around you,
in the world of finance. You know,
you can pick up a topic like mergers and acquisitions.
You could look at corporate actions, you could look at macroeconomics. You can,
you know, taxation, You know,
take a subject that's close to your heart and make sure you read
everything about it. Right. Other than that, like I said, you know,
so take out dedicated time. It could be, you know, a Saturday morning, 10 to 12,
or a Sunday morning, 10 to 12,
when you really will just read you know,
a good quality journal or a good quality magazine,
so that's something that's very, very fundamental. And other than that,
I think it's, you know,
learning has become far easier than it ever was.
So you must get yourself into online courses,
right? And, you know, for example you know my CFO,
just in the lab, he's constantly studying, you know,
every year he adds a course to his resume. Now,
that's something that I'm inspired by. I haven't done that.
But there's so much you can learn. You can take up a course on cybersecurity,
you can learn what's happening in the world of AI,
what's happening in the world of blockchain. There's several courses available.
So, you know, I would say that, you know,
just like the way we take care of, you know,
ourselves every day by setting aside, you know, time for, you know,
walking or gyming or physical like that, you have to find dedicated time,
which you will put in honing your professional skills.
And nothing substitutes reading,
nothing substitutes you know,
keeping yourself informed of what's happening in the world around you.
And I think that's something that's a basic.
And apart from that, if you're able to take out time and,
you know, go ahead and enroll yourselves in, you know,
courses where you can keep yourself abreast of, you know, all the changes in,
in technology, nothing like that.
Because everything today comes with a package in a package with
technology.
Right? And although you called it basic,
but it's such a powerful insight that you just shared. I love it.
Yeah. Yeah, you know, yeah, it's basic, but, you know,
getting basics right is often the most difficult thing.
Absolutely. Getting it right and making it a habit,
that's what eventually adds up.
Yeah.
Awesome. You used a few words, like the technology related words,
something that your company is great at,
vPro works in the field of cloud computing, cyber security, AI,
all these hot topics, these buzzwords that we keep hearing about.
How can accounting finance people make sense of these new technologies coming up
every day so they can just let go of the noise and focus on what's important
and how can they best use it in their functions?
You know, all of them pretty much start like buzzwords.
And you know, it's very, you know, when you look at it,
it sounds vague at first,
and you are really wondering how can this ever,
you know substitute what you're doing today in your Excel sheets or in your ERP.
But you know, as finance professionals over the last 10 years,
we've witnessed certain technology trends that have proved us wrong. You know,
life is no longer about, you know, knowing Excel and ERP.
Those are things of the past, right? Today you know,
let me take a simple example, like data dissemination, right?
Having a single source of truth,
making sure the data that you have at the central level becomes accessible to
people who need it the most in the business.
Empowering business leaders rather than, you know, having approvals come to you.
How do you empower business by setting aside budgets, right?
So that people can decide where they would like to spend rather than have every
approval come to finance. So a lot of the,
there has been a subtle shift in mindset.
People expect you not to be the controller,
not just to be that person who approves your bills,
but they want finance to really move the needle and actually participate
wholeheartedly in enablement and empowerment.
And you know, for example,
how do you like run a company which is to lack 50,000
insights like us. It's almost like running a country.
You can't do it using Excel sheets and ERPs. Yeah,
you need to democratize data.
You need to make sure insights are available for business leaders,
as in when they need them. How do you really go through that part?
And what is a technology cycle?
And the only way you can make this happiness through technology,
and I think we've all learned it, and everything that we spoke about,
whether it's robotic process automation, whether it's AI,
you know,
all of that has really changed our life today in the way we operate in
vPro finance. And I'm sure it's true for, you know, any organization,
everybody's looking at digitization, right? You know,
we've done, you know, what started as a pilot, you know,
we started using artificial intelligence for,
you know forecasting revenues. And you know, when,
when that work, we grew in confidence and we then extended it to other areas,
right? How do you use you know,
data analysis for fraud detection?
How do you look at patterns and learn from those patterns and
identify payment behaviors and therefore, you know,
what could potentially be a credit risk? So, you know,
these are all things that, you know, we've used very effectively. You know,
how do you, you know, like, you know, lot of shared services that we, run,
whether it's for vendor payments or it's for employee reimbursements,
you know, we extensively use chat bots, right? Simple things, right?
How to improve both the efficiency,
effectiveness and the experience at the same time in a large
organization. Like, you know,
we have to go back to using technologies like this.
So what is buzzword today? Like, maybe Metaverse.
I'm sure five years down the line, Neha, when you and I are talking,
we will be using Metaverse for training. I mean,
very clearly that's one place where we will all learn, right? Maybe,
you know, you know,
we all meet in the metaverse and we have our conferences there,
we collaborate there, we've got breakout rooms. You know,
I think the technology is there,
and I think the proof point of the technology is clear.
How do you use it is what I think all of us are grappling with.
And a lot of us have made several strides in using
blockchain for reporting in using,
let's say RPA for ever so many items including,
let's say, reconciliations. You know, anything that's you know,
routine standard can be easily automated using RPA.
We've all used bots extensively, so, yeah. You know,
all these things that look like it was far fetched are reality now.
And we are adopting technology at a pace because, you know,
we've all seen the benefits it has. So I'm very confident that,
you know, we will continue to,
you know adopt some of these things that are buzzwords today
in a big way. Again, five years down the line, we will, like I said,
we will be talking about technologies like Metaverse, digital, how do you work?
We are all working in a hybrid world.
How do you work half in physical world and how half in the digital world
and I think some of those answers will be provided by some of these
technologies.
So true.
And I love your take that it's not let's not get carried away by the buzzwords
and thanks for sharing some of the application,
part of these new technologies and how people can be using them.
Right.
All right,
So let's pivot from these learning resources to actually learning from you,
your leadership experience.
Tell us about your experience of building and managing teams over the years.
How do you make sure your team is not just performing well,
but also feeling well that they're actively engaged?
Neha,
I must confess that it was much easier when we were all only in the physical
world, it was much easier to lead a team.
It was much easier to know the person because, you know,
you make an eye contact, you shake hands with someone.
I think it makes a big different difference, you know?
Today when I pick up the phone and I talk to someone,
and when I cannot make that eye contact, when I can't gauge the body language,
I think the conversations become very transactional. Very quickly, you move to,
you know, how are you, okay, fine. Now this is what we need to get done.
How do we go about it? As opposed to, let's say if I'd met the person,
I would have perhaps realized that the person's looking tired.
I may have asked a follow up question.
We may have had an opportunity to know something just beyond work,
because I always feel that if you really have to be a leader of a team,
you need to know your team in and out, right, inside-out.
You need to know what's happening with them,
around them and how they're feeling, Right? You spoke about how they're feeling.
I think that's very, very critical. We are very challenged because, you know,
we are all working in a virtual world. And and therefore,
I think there are some good habits that all of us can you know, doubt.
Maybe in the current times, I make sure I always make,
I give the person some time to settle down.
When we are doing a call on teams or on phone where you make the person feel
comfortable, talk a little bit outside of work,
understand what's happening. Are you okay? Is this is a good time to talk?
Are you fine? And learning to trust, right?
Because it becomes very, you know,
it is anxiety even for the manager because, you know,
you really don't know whether your team is productive enough.
Are things happening at the pace at which it should happen,
especially when the outcomes are not coming.
These interventions become difficult.
So you've got to do these things very sensitively.
You should not come across as any time as you're not trusting.
So these times it's very difficult, but, you know,
you've gotta check your natural instinct and, and learn to trust,
learn to be more patient and learn, give people more time.
But otherwise, you know managing teams,
it generally, I mean is all about, you know, for me, setting the agenda,
reviewing, and then, you know, doing,
helping them in course correction see if outcomes come,
then it's your team's credit.
But when outcomes don't come as it's the job of the leader to
step in and coach and make those interventions and do that course correction so
that, you know, you can reach the goal.
I genuinely believe that's how you lead. You set the goals,
you review it for how it's happening, You give enough delegation,
and when things are not working,
that's when you step in and you come in to help how,
you know otherwise that I'm a pretty hands off leader.
Wow. And while you were answering that question,
I was wishing that we were having this interview in person,
because you're right,
there's so many things that get lost when we can't see the non-verbals, right?
And I love your mantra of success to lead a team to being hands off and
delegating as much as possible, but being there when they need you.
Yeah, yeah. You know, I once heard this,
and I don't know if it's a true incident, but that, you know,
when there was a rocket launch that was happening, and Abdul Kalam,
Dr. A. P. J. Abdul Kalam was leading that you know, rocket launch, and
Vikram Sarabhai was also there. And they were all very excited.
And the press was called. And, and when it did not go as per,
you know, schedule you know, Vikram Sarabhai asked Dr. A. P. J.
to just step back and said, Okay, now you leave this place.
I'll take the press conference. And he took all the flack,
and the next time when the launch was absolutely fine,
he just let you know, Dr. A. P. J. do all the talking. And he said,
now my job is over, I'm flying back.
And I think that is an excellent leadership, you know, lesson.
And that I think caught my eye.
And I truly believe that when the chips are down,
leaders can make a huge difference,
because they need to own up and be there and protect. If everything's fine,
then,
you know leaders can just take a back seat and you know,
let the team bask in their glory.
So I think that's a very important lesson that I learned.
So true. And, and when you were telling that story, it got,
it brought goosebumps to me. So thanks for sharing that,
and thanks for holding that philosophy close to your heart as you lead your
teams in vPro.
Yeah.
All right. You touched upon the hybrid work life and how teams
are working in this new environment.
How has your life and work changed in this new environment?
It is very, very difficult. Like I said, you know,
teams are all over the place. And, you know having them engaged,
especially young chartered accountants,
young CMA graduates, people who join us you know,
they are the energy, right? They are the backbone of this organization. And
it is very tough for us that we don't get to interact with them enough
because they're all in their homes. And, you know, very often, you know,
people are very shy. They don't wanna come on videos, we don't wanna push them.
So I feel that, you know, the connect,
especially with the young people who are joining raring to go full of
energy, who are ready to observe, right? Like,
just like how you say a kid you know, the, you know,
when when they're growing up to the age of, you know, eight,
they absorb everything that's happening around them,
and that perhaps mold you know,
how their personalities are going to be when they are late,
let's say 20 or 30 years old.
Much of that gets formed in the first formative views of, you know,
for six years is similarly, you know,
when someone's joining you fresh from campus, you know, they are so moldable,
right? So when they come in, we, you know,
we'll be very happy to have them in a vPro campus, mold them in a vPro way,
instill our values, instill our culture, let them know what we stand for.
And I think that's what we perhaps miss the most,
because we are not able to perhaps put that bond,
that umbilical cord of, you know, what we stand for, right? And this,
these are the vPro values. This is how a vPro leader is, and this is how,
you know we do business. It has become much more,
more tougher. But, but, you know, again,
going back to technology, thankfully, at least we have you know,
collaborative technologies.
So we are using in our workplace where we at least able to do everything
virtually. We've all adapted ourselves to having these, you know,
chime in, HR sessions, everybody gets their own tea, you know, comes together.
We have more. So what has happened is to compensate, you know,
the lack of, you know working, co-working,
we all communicating, right?
So everything gets communicated. We have more calls, you know,
we make sure people have understood, we make sure people have heard us.
There are more emails, there are more calls, there are more webinars,
there are more training sessions that people can take up at various times,
you know, whenever it's convenient. So, yeah, you know,
there are more both pluses and minuses. I would say for me,
because I come from a traditional law school way of thinking,
I feel the minuses outweigh.
I would really like us to at least get to a more effective hybrid model as
opposed to a hundred percent remote.
But I do understand that there are pluses, you know,
there is better productivity. People are staying with their families,
so they're far more relaxed. You know, they're less stressed because, you know,
they have they don't have to come here. They're not homesick.
They're not running around for you know, to do their chores.
They looked after. I think it's a win-win,
if you look at it that way,
they're able to work with a company like vPro and yet be with their
families, which are in smaller towns.
But I worry that sometimes the exposure that you get when you are in the line
of sight, that'll be missed.
And I genuinely don't know how leaders, like, I mean,
today we have a leadership bench who've all worked in
only physical world. Now,
if we were to continue like this for another 10 years how will you produce
leaders for tomorrow's vPro or tomorrow's, you know,
large organizations that I think we have not yet seen,
you know, those proof points haven't been met, I think. Yeah.
So we'll all evolve and we'll have to see how the future unfolds. For now,
things are good. I think we are okay with a hybrid model.
We are asking our employees to come in three times a week when they can,
where they can. And I think for now, that will do. But as,
like I said you know,
time passes and hopefully we are all with the pandemic is well behind us.
I truly hope people do come back to physical offices because that's where you
really build culture, and you gain exposure, you gain independence,
and you know, you truly can, you know, wait it,
and magic can happen.
Wow.
Waiting for that magic and waiting for the world to find that equilibrium where
both remote and in office is accepted.
And we find that right balance where people are happier, but also productive.
Correct.
All right. So it, I have so much to ask you, but then we don't have enough time.
So time for one final question for the day.
If you wanted to leave our global listeners with just one message,
one takeaway from our talk today, what would that be?
Hmm. Have a burning ambition. Never you know,
feel shy to raise your hand and go for it, You know, chase your dreams.
Wholeheartedly.
I think magic happens when you really
put up your hand and say, I want this, and I want this to happen to me.
And then, and like they say, the universe conspires. So
I think ambition is key,
and it's important that you raise your hand and ask for it and
make the most of it.
Wow. I can't think of better parting words than those. Raise your hands.
Thank you so much, Aparna. This brings us to the end of our show today.
But thank you so much for your wonderful chat and sharing your insights with us.
Thank you, Neha. Wonderful talking to you.
This has been Count Me in imas podcast,
providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders from the
accounting and finance profession.
If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant
accounting and finance education, visit imas
website@www.imanet.org.