Duke: All right, Corey, what are we chatting about today?
Cory: to, let me tell you, like, we've got an extra special
guest with us today on the pod.
We've got the man, the myth, the bow tie himself, Chuck Tomasi,
Duke: D Chuck
Chuck: Hey, how's it going?
Cory: Good.
Duke: Chuck Norris Tomasi.
Chuck: You say so.
When you're talking about somebody special, then I was going to say,
let me know when he shows up.
Duke: All right, but we wanted to do something different about
it this time because, we love Chuck because we know Chuck.
But do we really know Chuck?
And I think with this episode, what we wanted to do is introduce
everybody to the Chuck you never knew.
Chuck: We said we were never going to talk about that time I was in jail.
Duke: which time you were in jail?
Chuck: Hey, nice to come back.
That time we shared a bunk.
Duke: It was really cold outside though.
Listen,
Chuck: Drag this show down with me.
Duke: I'm not trying to freeze to death here.
Cory: Oh, we are off to a great start.
Chuck: Let that set the tone for where we're going today.
Duke: And speaking about a start, which of the nine kids were you in your family?
Chuck: I'm number six.
I'm number six.
So, in order, there were three girls, then three boys.
Then a girl, and if you don't think God has a sense of humor,
he gave my mom twins at the end.
So a boy and a girl.
Duke: Wow,
Chuck: Suzette, Suzette, Julie, Marilyn, Richard, Vincent, Chuck, or Charles.
I'll do the proper names first, then I'll do the canonicals later.
The other way around, whatever it is.
Charles, Martha, Paul, and Audrey.
Or as we would call them, Susie, Julie, Mimi, Rico, Vince,
Chuck, Marty, Paul, and Audrey.
Duke: Rico.
Chuck: Rico.
I have a brother Rico.
So all my kids have an uncle Rico.
Duke: is that a common you per name?
Chuck: No, it's just a shortened version of Richard.
He was named after my maternal grandfather.
we all have, most of us, I should say, have a little bit of family
name in our name somewhere.
Like, I've got my dad's middle name as my middle name.
Duke: What was that like?
, I'm an only child, so I got zero idea, but I think most people have like
one or two brothers and sisters, but.
Chuck: It was, it was interesting, , being somewhere in the middle, I could
take examples from my older brothers and sisters and either use them to my
advantage or disadvantage, as I chose.
So I would see, you know, Marilyn come home late and get in trouble for that.
I said, well, I don't want to be doing that when I get older, so
don't go out and stay out late.
Let your parents know when you're there, if you can help it.
And then I would.
Also get terrorized or harassed because older brothers and sisters
remember stupid things you do and continuous remind you of them.
But yet I had four or three younger brothers and sisters that I could
turn around and do that to as well.
So my younger brother Paul is three years younger than me.
My older brother Vince is three years older than me.
So Yeah, I was right in that sweet spot.
I was often a, a mediator, or an avoider if I just wanted to put it that way.
And that was something that, I didn't realize until later in life
that I needed to get over that.
I need you to, get out in front.
One of the things about being in a family of nine is There was always like this
competition at the dinner table to see who could get in the funniest last remark.
So we'd always be like, trying to one up each other, and that still lives on.
We got together last summer for my dad's 89th birthday, and there were seven
of us there, and it was the same as being at a birthday party 30 years ago.
I mean, it was, it was outrageous.
I mean, 45, 50 years ago, now that I think about it.
it was fun, it was funny, it was warm, it was emotional.
And, in a family of nine, you wanted to make sure that you were recognized
or noticed in some way, whether it be through that humor or hopefully not some
sort of inappropriate outburst, because once in a while, as we were loading up
the station wagon or the van or whatever vehicle we had at the time to haul this.
cadre of children around.
Uh, somebody might be left behind.
Cory: Oh, home alone.
Chuck: Well, or, or at the place we went, we went out to the beach and there was
a, there was an outlet for a power plant where the water would come out warmer
than the surrounding Lake Superior water.
We grew up in Marquette, Michigan on the shores of Lake Superior.
And in summertime, the temperature was, Oh, a whopping maybe 55 degrees
, which is, you know, what about.
12 Celsius for all our international friends.
And there was a time when my sister Marilyn got left at what we
affectionately called the hot pond
Cory: Huh,
Chuck: there.
We started a phrase and it had a little jingle.
And we left the Mimi at the hot pond.
We left the meeting.
Well, years later, I've got kids of my own and they met my sister,
Marilyn, for the first time.
And my oldest daughter goes, are you the Mimi that got left at the hot?
Duke: And so she took your kids out and left them at the hot pond.
Chuck: It's one way to cut the cost of living.
Cory: So, uh, there's a lot there to process,
Chuck: I'm just going to unload.
You ask a question, I'm going to go where it takes me.
, Cory: so a couple of things I want to say , your upbringing is, uh, sounds
remarkably close to mine, right?
Like the fact that I had an older brother , who routinely got into trouble.
And I looked at it's his, exploits and thought, yeah, I should not do that.
Right.
And so I had a whole book full of things that I wasn't going to do because I
seen him do those things and I didn't want to be in that kind of trouble.
Right.
But then I also had a younger brother.
. That, I was hopefully, passing some of that stuff down too.
But the problem is, is that, , my older brother got into so much trouble that
he set such a good or bad example for me, however you want to think about it,
right, that I never got in any trouble.
So my younger brother, four years younger than me, never had that
example of what not to do, so he gets into all the trouble,
Chuck: Oh, absolutely.
And it didn't always, you know, it wasn't always about their bad examples.
My older brothers and sisters set some wonderful examples.
, my older brother Rico, , we had a family business.
Are you ready for another story?
Cory: you know, absolutely.
Chuck: My, my, you know, with a family of nine, you have to find a
way to keep these kids occupied, start setting up a college fund and whatnot.
So my dad was pretty much the breadwinner in our family.
He was the director of conferences and continuing education at
Northern Michigan university.
We were a single income family with nine kids.
That's, that's unbelievable.
I won't get into the ways that my mom would stretch the budget
today, but He had a dive shop.
They got interested in scuba diving in the late sixties.
There were early pioneers and in the upper peninsula of Michigan, Lake
Superior has a beautiful freshwater shipwrecks dating back to the 1800s.
Something you don't find very often.
And, , they said, Hey, let's also combine our interest with our family.
So I started work at the age of 10, which I figure I was able for
retirement about 30 years ago.
Duke: Bye.
Silence.
Chuck: paycheck at the tender age of 10 and went, why?
I thought I worked, you know, four hours this week.
Why is this check so small?
You're welcome to taxes.
Cory: You
Chuck: Yeah, it was, it was a nice reality check, but it also taught us
how to save, the value of a dollar.
you want new clothes or new shoes or something, you're welcome to pay for
it because, or you can wait for the annual budget to come out and we'll
figure out what we can afford for you.
So it's a nice way to teach us ownership, , respective property, you
know, all those things about money that you want your kids to, to learn about.
But it also taught us that we were involved in this
business, started out very.
Light.
I mean, 10 years old.
What can you do?
Well, you can count boxes.
I learned inventory control.
Cory: Oh, nice.
Silence.
Duke: Silence.
Silence.
Chuck: You can, and as we grew, we learned more about customer
service and sales and shipping.
And it wasn't, a big business.
You got to remember, we were only open initially like three nights a week, for a
couple of hours because we went to school.
We My dad worked a full time job.
It, uh, a whole many, many stories about, the sales reps coming to our
house and, you know, what, having these snot nosed 13, 14 year old
kids go, hey, kid, you know, my, my dad wasn't selling the equipment.
He'd go, boys, what do you think of this new mask from, you know, U.
S.
divers or decor or whatever?
And we'd look at it and go, we can't sell that.
It's ugly.
You know, and
Duke: Hello.
Chuck: the rep who drove up from Chicago seven hours to the upper
peninsula going, I didn't come up here to be harassed by these kids, but
he knew that if we didn't have faith in the product, we couldn't sell it.
You know,
Cory: Right, right.
Chuck: a lot of great core values that lasted the rest of our life
, were formulated in that childhood.
Cory: man, Chuck, I'm just thinking here, right?
Like I can see so much, from that, um, that story, I can see so much of
how, like, maybe that stuff shaped you now, like you talked about
customer service and , you probably have one of the best customer service
personalities of anyone I've ever met.
Chuck: A part of it goes from the screwiness of my big family too.
Cory: yeah, but I'd be learning it at 10 as well.
, like it's really hard to, uh, to, to shake something like that out once you've
internalized it, so young and for so long.
Chuck: It wasn't like immediately at 10 years old, I had customer service.
It had to evolve.
You know, you have, you learn these skills over time and coupled with the dive shop.
We also ran a charter shipwreck diving in Munising, Michigan,
about 40 miles to the east of us.
Cause there were better shipwrecks over there.
So we bought a boat.
We get people from all over the Midwest, Iowa and Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin.
They would book weekends with us.
With group travel and our job was to take them to the shipwrecks,
give them an orientation, the safety talk, all this stuff.
As I got older, uh, I was expected to get a charter captain's license.
Again, my dad worked a full time job, so he couldn't always be there.
And every once in a while you get, you know, Jay Chester from
Minneapolis going, uh, we'd like to book the week of the 4th of July.
Well, 4th of July is on a Wednesday this week, so dad can't make it.
He's working.
But one of his boys can't because they're certified Coast Guard charter captains.
So we would take them out.
You have, in order to take money for more than six people, you
have to have a captain's license.
We got that.
But you know, being in this, you got to know the groups.
Duke: You're, you're actually a literal ship captain too, right?
Yeah.
Chuck: have to renew every five years, and mine expired, like, 25 years ago,
so, yeah, I, I renewed it, like, once.
I, I won't get into the whole trials and tribulations of achieving that regi
that certification, but the, uh, the, the groups would come back, and you knew
Bruce Hoopman from, Addison, Illinois, and he'd come up three times a year.
So, you get to know these people as, as friends.
Sometimes you'd have them over for dinner, sometimes they'd ask
you, you know, Hey, when you're done, come on over and we'll have a
cookout at the campgrounds, whatever.
And we would start messing with them.
So when you get on the boat, you'd set up the, put the tank on the
bench and you bungee it to the bench.
And then they'd sit down at the shipwreck site.
You drive the boat out there, you get, to the boat, they'd put on
their, tank and vest and whatnot.
And us wise acres were standing on the gunwale.
Now that's the lip of the, of the boat, the edge of the boat sort
of between the back of the bench.
And the part that drops off into the water, there's just like this little six,
eight inch walkway that you can navigate on generally it was to help people, but
every once in a while as wisecrackers would retie the bungee back to the tank.
So when somebody went to stand up, they'd get yanked back down to their seat.
We would call those bench divers.
Cory: Okay.
Nice.
Chuck: Get a laugh.
Oh, I must have forgotten.
No, you didn't forget that 17 year old with the grin on
his face behind you did it.
Duke: Okay.
Oh man, it's 12 minutes in, and we got one of 10?
11 points?
Chuck: We might have to do a part two on this.
, Duke: Chuck, tell us what a youper is.
Chuck: Oh, good question.
Duke: where do we, where do we buy one?
Cory: dude.
Go ahead.
Chuck: It's a state of mind.
A a er comes from the words, upper Peninsula, Michigan has two peninsulas.
The lower peninsula is shaped like a mitten.
The upper peninsula is above it and connected physically to Wisconsin.
Between there is the Straits of Mackinac, the Mackinac Bridge.
You can look it up.
It separates Lake Michigan from Lake Huron.
Okay, so the upper peninsula is often abbreviated as up.
Well, when you say you P enough, it becomes a you per.
So a person who lives in the upper peninsula of Michigan is a you per and the
person who lives in the lower peninsula because they are below the bridge.
We called them trolls.
They didn't like that.
Cory: You What You
Duke: And how would, a uber know when he's in the presence of another uber?
Chuck: Oh, usually by The heritage of a lot of the people that settled
in the upper peninsula is Finnish.
So you'll often hear them talking like, Eno and Toivo was out on a
boat, and Eno jumps over and paints a big X on the bottom of the boat.
He comes up and Toivo says, Eno!
What you doing there?
He goes, Oh, I wanted to mark our spot so we knew where to come back to fish.
I have, I have, I
Duke: It reminds me a lot of like Newfoundlanders
Chuck: Yeah.
I mean, you can substitute Eno and Toivo for not any nationality.
You go over to Minnesota, it's, uh, Sven and Oli, you know, it's
same kind of jokes, only they're Norwegian instead of Finnish.
My, my stepfather in law sounded just like that.
I mean, it was, I could imitate Ben.
His last name was Makala.
If that's not a Finnish name, I don't know what is.
Cory: Chuck, , let me ask this question.
, we're, we're 15 minutes into this and neither, neither Rob and I have
stopped laughing this entire time.
How the hell did you get so funny?
Chuck: It's the Chuck you never knew.
Duke: Okay, so...
Chuck: A lot of it was just the upbringing.
We were raised in a very positive environment.
Yes, we had rules, we had guidelines, it wasn't just a free for all.
But, , it was a very loving environment.
Having nine kids, you were never want for company.
we lived in an older section of town needed a big house.
We had a big Victorian home that was built in 1882.
My dad was constantly fixing it up.
That was like his winter project.
Hey, let's go do this bathroom or we got into the kitchen.
And, uh, you could find Areas of privacy if you wanted that, but
oftentimes we didn't have friends in the neighborhood too much.
There was, there was like Jane Saban who was kind of next door.
, but there weren't many kids our age.
So if you wanted to have a quick basketball game in the backyard,
Hey, Paul, you want to go play Vince?
What are you doing?
Yeah.
Until they got older and got girlfriends and whatnot.
That was, that was terrifying to me.
Duke: Silence.
Cory: so just by virtue of, of coming from a big family and, and having
to, , I guess compete, you, you had to kind of mark a place out for yourself.
That's all.
Oh.
Chuck: Yeah.
It really was.
In fact, we have a text chain Right now that most of the brothers and
sisters are on and it can get nuts sometimes, especially if I'm trying
to work and they're just like doing that one upmanship on the comment.
It's like, hey, here's a picture of my dog.
Your dog looks like he's on, rage drugs or something.
It's like, okay, and then it gets funnier and funnier and like, ding, ding, ding.
I'm like trying to work.
Put on the do not disturb for an hour and hope it goes away.
Duke: has anybody asked you on a podcast about the bow tie?
Chuck: A few, a few, but we'll give you the, canonical answer from the source.
it started as an act of rebellion.
Actually, it was knowledge 13, and, we were told the dress code is going
to be black shirts, black pants, black socks, black, black underwear
if you want, uh, and I said, we're going to either look like a funeral
dirge or a Johnny Cash convention.
I'm not sure how you.
The idea was if you spotted somebody dressed all in black, that's an employee,
you know, not that lanyards made any difference, but, I said, I've got
to, you know, my childhood kicked in.
How do I stand out?
How do I mark myself as being unique without?
really going overboard.
And my first thought was, I know I'll wear a black kilt and the
spore in will be the old power logo.
Um, I don't look good in a kilt.
I don't have the knees for it or something.
Cory: Okay.
Chuck: And honestly, I didn't want to try teaching the pre con training
in a kilt and all that stuff.
So about 2 AM on a cold Wisconsin morning, cause we lived in Wisconsin from 88 to
2014 and, uh, I wake up at 2 AM middle of February and I go, I've got it.
I'm gonna make a bowtie.
I have no idea how I'm going to make a bowtie, but I'm gonna make a bowtie.
So it was one of those adventure games where you got to kill the
dragon before you kill the dragon.
You got a magic spear.
You got to get a ring and get the ring.
You gotta unlock the door.
You know, it's one of these reverse engineering things.
How do I get to bowtie?
And I found a place that made bow ties, and she said, I can
sew them if you get the fabric.
So I got, who spells the fabric?
Oh, you can go to spoonflower.
com.
So I went to Spoonflower.
You can have the fabric if you can upload the image.
I'm not a graphic designer.
Who do I know that's a graphic designer?
Craig, my buddy Craig.
He, he's good at graphics.
So, you know, kind of worked my way backwards and sent this off.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to do my regular day job through all this fun.
and February becomes March, March becomes April.
And, I ordered the pattern on the fabric, sent the fabric off to
the lady who sews them in Maine.
She sends them back, like, three weeks before knowledge.
Wrong color fabric.
It was pink, and those power icons were too small.
They looked like dots.
I went, oh, clearly this isn't going to work.
And she apologized.
And said, I'll send the next ones for free, if you can get me the new fabric.
So, I went back and I said, send me a swatch, cause Spoonflower
has this wait, with RGB codes on, and like, I need fire engine red.
Well, it turned out to be more tomato soup red, but it was redder than pink!
Meanwhile, I'm on a business trip to Singapore trying to
orchestrate this from afar.
I think they came in maybe a day or two before we went to Knowledge 13
and I wore it there and it worked.
I mean, it was like, okay, I'm wearing my black shirt, but I also
have a red bow tie that popped.
And it was, it was close enough to being on brand.
Nobody said anything.
We didn't have brand police back then.
Cory: Silence.
Chuck: Did I just say something that shouldn't happen?
You guys are laughing like you've encountered this before.
Well...
Cory: Yeah.
Chuck: In 2013, if you watch some of the first TechNow videos, like those
early Jelly videos, there's no bowtie.
So that didn't come along until after I got the bowtie at Knowledge,
and then it became a thing.
I knew it was going to be a serious thing when I got to Knowledge 14
and 15, and I'd be checking in for the hotel at Knowledge, and somebody
says, Chuck, where's your bowtie?
I just got out of the car, man.
Give me a break.
It's in my suit.
So now I like have to put it on on the way to the hotel and make sure I don't
forget it And i've got it all the time.
So it it became its own entity and a very identifiable brand and like most of my
career was just a pure accident And I feel very blessed yet confused Or maybe
Cory: Accidents are the best thing though, right?
Like, I mean, there's so much of my career that's an accident, so I totally get it.
How you just kind of look up into something and it's
like, wow, this is amazing.
And you just keep it right.
You just keep going with it.
Chuck: should write a book or something there's got to be some outcome of this
Cory: Yeah, right.
That's awesome.
It's ironically, uh, , knowledge, 13, which is in 2013 was my first knowledge.
So.
I'm going to, I'm going to put myself in the story here and say
that when you discovered the bow tie, I discovered service now
Chuck: awesome Do you remember did you take any pre con training?
Cory: I did, I did, I cannot remember orchestration maybe.
Chuck: okay.
Okay.
Rob, what did you do in 2013?
Duke: 2013 was my third knowledge, but probably my, real favorite.
And knowledge 11, I was like, Oh my God, clients actually speak
at events and teach classes.
And maybe if I work really hard someday, someday, maybe I'll be able
to speak at an event and knowledge 12.
I got a speaking engagement, but it was like, right after some huge party.
Uh,
Chuck: Yeah, no, yeah, they'd have the
Duke: like 5
Chuck: on Wednesday night.
Duke: rate me 5 out of 5, I'll keep the lights down low and I'll talk real soft.
Chuck: That used to drive me nuts.
The party was like Wednesday night, and you've got the speaking session.
8 a.
m.
Thursday.
Going, oh, you've got to be kidding
Duke: I'm not feeling this either.
Cory: Ha Ha Ha
Duke: Um, but knowledge 13 was, I was just like taking another shot at it.
And I'm like, Oh, I hope people like my idea.
I don't know.
And I was feeling all weird and, my belt broke and my, my pants were loose.
Cory: Ha
Duke: I'm like, it's okay.
Not a whole bunch of people could show up and I walk in the door and it's like,
people were standing, it was so packed
Chuck: The things you remember.
Duke: Oh my goodness.
I'm like half the session.
I got my hand like behind my back, trying to look all
casual, holding my pants up and
Chuck: It's
Cory: Ha Ha Ha
Chuck: like,
Cory: Ha
Chuck: it's like one of those Up in the front,
Duke: nothing gets you less worried about what you're going to say than
worry about your pants falling down.
Chuck: that's a nightmare scenario, man.
That's nightmare fuel.
Duke: Hey, speaking about stuff that keeps your pants up.
I bet you that not a lot of people know that you have a black belt.
Chuck: I did.
That was a very interesting segue.
If I must,
Cory: Ha That was pretty good
Duke: I planned that from the beginning, I swear.
Chuck: yes, I did sport karate in Appleton.
My daughter, when she was like in fifth grade or sixth grade, we were at one
of these winter carnival things and the karate school showed up and said, Hey,
congratulations, Lisa, you won a free month of karate lessons, and I had.
Been by their school a number of times they were in a mall at the time.
And I'd walked by and I would see these little kids going, Hey, yeah.
I, yeah.
I go, what is the attraction to this?
Why do, and it's full, it's full.
I'm like, wow, what do they, they must be doing something, right?
Well, my daughter got in there.
, and that's when I understood I was, I was observing, you know, parents got
to sit on the bench while the kids do the karate, they would dedicate
part of the class to a floor chat.
They say, okay, everybody gather around.
This is January.
It's the month of attitude of gratitude.
We're going to learn about how to be more appreciative of things.
And it was that kind of stuff.
the attitude, the confidence, the discipline.
That they got out of that, that really resonated with her and with
me as the value prop for that class.
And of course, after about four months, I went, you know, I'm closing in on 40.
I better, uh, get.
Doing something because the metabolism is only going to carry me so far.
So I joined, and it was a great father daughter thing to do, especially since
she outranked me most of the way.
She got her, her black belt.
It took three years of the program to, to get the black belt.
She got hers in early 2009.
I got mine later in 2009.
And then we both decided to go on for, our second degree black belt.
And they only do these tests once every six months.
For the black belt.
Well, she had an injury or something to get second degree.
It only takes two more years.
And so that meant we synced up to get our secondary black belts together.
So we have a very wonderful picture with that in 2011.
She stopped at that point.
I continued on for three more years to get my third degree, which was
about the time we were going to be moving from Wisconsin to Arizona.
And with third degree, I always wanted to get to my third degree because the
thing I remember about seeing other people get to their third degree
was you could make up your own test.
Well, that sounds all great on the surface until you have to write
it up and give it to the master instructor and go, how's this?
You don't want to play yourself short, but you don't want to leave yourself laying
on the tarmac halfway through the test.
So, I, Really wanted to do the weapons test.
Yeah There were were part of the karate thing.
They had size.
They had both staffs.
They had nunchucks They had and my weapon of choice was the bow staff
It had been since I got one when I first got to be Was it a black
belt or green belt or something?
I forgot So I had been working on this and I made a custom Form around
the bow staff with the help of a third or fourth degree black belt
as well I said Logan, come here.
I mean, uh, Mr.
Everett or whatever you have to refer to people as Mr.
This and Mrs.
That, but, he helped me create this and then I perfected it for the test.
Uh, but it was, it was a slog fest because the first thing
you have to do is run two miles.
And I'm not a runner.
So I had to build up that endurance for about three months before the test.
And unfortunately, when I ran on the track across the street from the
school, they eventually built their own.
school a very nice school and A couple that with jujitsu, gracie jujitsu.
So i've got a blue belt in jujitsu as well Yeah, how I got anything done because i'm
looking at my business travel calendar going when did I actually do karate?
But somehow I got it done because you had to go a minimum number of times
to get progressed to your next rank
Cory: Dude, you're making me feel like a loaf over here, I swear.
Duke: Seriously
Chuck: I look back at it.
I I couldn't do that today I don't know how I would do that but you you know, you
make time for the priorities in your life So I ran my 20 miles, but I ran it in like
two minutes faster than I should have.
So I spent all my gas on the track and now you still got to go back and do
90 minutes worth of intense workout ending with sparring with all the
master instructors going, Oh, I'm going to get kicked in the face again.
I can't keep my hands up.
I mean, you earn that black belt, but you also become a black belt.
So it's something that, I repainted the room so it's not hanging proudly on
the wall anymore, but every color belt right up first, second and third degree.
I think I even got a key chain that was embroidered with the date
and the three stripes on the belt.
So, yeah, very happy to do that.
And since 2014, I've done little to nothing except morning walks.
Duke: Take
Cory: and two sounds like the beginning of an action flick where, you know,
you're this, , service now guy, you know, developer nine to five, you're
walking down the road and then all of a sudden, something ninjas jump
out and you haven't done karate in 10 years or something clicks.
Chuck: It will, it will.
No, you're absolutely right.
In fact, their situational awareness is very important.
And do you know, I mean, I think it was Mike Tyson said the fight plan is only as
good until the first punch gets thrown.
but to come up with an idea, a plan to know who is where, and is
this a fight or a flight thing?
Not that I'm always in paranoid mode, but my morning walk yesterday, uh, I'm walking
along the sidewalk and this car pulls up.
I mean, this beat up old POS car pulls up really fast and stops right behind me.
And I'm thinking, am I going to get shot?
Am I going to get run over?
What's going on here?
You know, so that, that, that instinct kicks in where the training kicks
in and going, what's my next move?
I kept walking.
Turns out he's just doing a 60, 630 AM delivery for Amazon.
Cory: Oh
Chuck: So he's driving like a lunatic, stopping real fast, runs up to
somebody's house, drops off a package, gets back in his car and takes off.
Okay.
Well, good to be prepared.
Duke: Yeah, I'm on team paranoia on that one, man.
You can't be too careful.
Cory: Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm from the hood.
Like I, that, that guy, I don't know, might not have made it out
Chuck: I didn't want to attack the Amazon driver, okay?
Duke: Uh
Cory: You never know.
I mean, save the environment, attack the Amazon, uh, attack
the Amazon driver that works.
Chuck: Technically, you know, you gotta be careful with that stuff though,
because if you are trained in martial arts, and you, you know, you get a
lawsuit slapped on you pretty easily for dam for, what is it, assault?
It's,
Cory: Oh, yeah, because you're like a deadly weapon now or something, right?
Chuck: Right.
If it comes up in court, Hey, he broke my arm.
And Oh, by the way, he's got martial arts training.
That doesn't look good.
You got to have a really good defense go.
Well, first of all, you pulled a gun on me.
I disarmed.
You took you to the ground, put you in an arm lock and you wouldn't submit.
Duke: Oh, I'm trying not to get political.
I just
Cory: chuck
Chuck: You don't want to go from here.
Duke: pressed my own cancel button.
Cory: So what I'd like to know, I mean, so this is a one is a whole lot of stuff.
I didn't know about you.
You're incredibly interesting and interesting background, right?
Like you were incredibly interesting before I knew all of this stuff about you.
Tell me how.
how all of this stuff from your past, right?
for instance, the fact that you're just incredibly funny, how
does that impact how you do your job and relate to people today?
Chuck: Oh my gosh.
I, I, I think this is the culmination.
I'll be honest.
I'm playing the back nine on this career golf course.
hoping to get to the 19th hole soon, and, uh, golfers will know
that's a reference for the bar
Cory: Ah, nice.
Chuck: hole.
Okay, so, the,
Cory: don't think we're going to allow you to retire though, Chuck, just so you know.
Chuck: It may be a month, it may be 10 years, I don't know.
There's no date on the calendar right now, but it's coming,
and I know it's been coming.
In fact, if somebody asked me how long you've been planning on retirement, since
I was 10 years old and started working.
It's not that it sucks, I wanted to know what happens after
this, when you're done working.
And I have never counted on Social Security being there,
and every day it looks like it's going to be less and less likely.
So, I've been saving.
with the 401k and saving in stocks and saving in the bank, you know, being
prepared for whatever the future holds.
But anyway, what was the question?
Oh, it's easy in retrospect to look back and say, oh, that contributed to this.
But right now it's like everything has come together.
My technical background, I got interested in tech in the early 80s.
I was that kid that would stay after school to play with the computers because
there were only like two in the whole high school of hundreds or thousands of people.
So I, I had to get my time and I'd crack the book open.
And then I'd walk two miles in the snow, uphill, both ways, sob, sob story.
It was,
Cory: No shoes, et cetera, et
Chuck: Yeah, well, we'll talk about the boots later.
It was the U.
P.
The, uh.
it was, it was the technical plus, the social part of building that
community came out of, uh, when I was in college, my buddy and I got
involved with and then later created a dial up bulletin board service.
This is, this is like pre internet days.
Cory: Yeah.
Old school.
Ooh.
Chuck: We're, we're managing this community and growing it granted.
It was a local community or whatever the local dialing area was going to be.
and, and that got me involved with, support and more customer service
and community and writing style, whether it's formal or informal.
So a lot of skills along the way, coupled together to bring me to where I am.
Now, my previous company, I was there for 22 years was up.
A fountain of more technical skills, learning ports and protocols, networking,
you know, more of the technical stuff.
I worked among electrical engineers and printed circuit board
engineers and mechanical engineers.
And they were great for, obviously the camaraderie, but also the knowledge.
Do you know how a mechanical mouse works?
It's called quadrature waveform output.
Thank you, Fred Schleifer.
And, uh, Thank you.
Cory: So
Duke: Okay.
Chuck: Yeah, that was at least 30 years ago.
I don't know.
Duke: knowledge quota for the day on that one.
Cory: Okay
Chuck: And I looked, I had that blank deer in the headlights look to like, you want
to say that again and try explaining it.
And then he drew the the little chart of when this signal goes
high and this one goes low.
And I was like, cause my question was Fred, you're moving your
mouse forward up the screen.
And you stop.
How does the mouse know when you go backwards or forwards
from that starting point?
Cory: a part
Chuck: There's four states, not just two on and off.
That's, that's what it boiled down to.
, so anyway, getting to the career today, this is a lot of fun because
I get to, take the creativity, the humor in fact, we were talking
about, oh, we want to come out with a community newsletter on LinkedIn.
What do we want to call this thing?
Oh, the creative juices and the humor juices were flowing big time.
You, I'm in marketing, so you can't throw out bad ideas.
You just keep throwing out ideas and we'll figure out later what's.
What's not working or not.
So it really is fun to take the, creative aspects, the technical
aspects, blend them together.
And with a platform like ServiceNow, you, you can't not be
passionate and excited about it.
So it's something awesome.
I really feel blessed to be where I am at this point.
Cory: Yeah, that, that,
Duke: sorry, go ahead, Corey.
Cory: No, go ahead.
Okay.
Chuck: Dumped them both.
Duke: Uh, no, I was, uh, well I was gonna, like, on the topic of
blessings and kind of also close to the topic of fighting, , somebody told
me that you are a cancer survivor.
Chuck: I am, . I got a new doctor shortly after we moved to
Phoenix, the guy from our church.
He's no longer my doctor.
His plans change.
Blah, blah, blah.
But, saw me at my first appointment.
Wonderful guy, top to bottom examination, literally, a great job.
He, he, you know, check me out.
He did the old man exam and said, Oh, yeah, your prostate's a little
enlarged, but we'll keep an eye on it.
Uh, that was, I think, 20, late 2016 went back.
Duke: what, how are they gonna keep an eye on your prostate?
I just, tell me.
Chuck: They, I'm not going to go there.
Wait, I just did.
Duke: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Chuck: 2017, he checks me again.
He goes, yeah, it's still kind of enlarged.
I'd like to refer you to a urologist.
I said, okay, let's, you know, let's not mess with this.
And, uh, oddly enough, he ordered me up some labs because you got
to have what they call a PSA test.
It's not a public service announcement.
It checks for indicators that may lead to cancer.
And they came back a little elevated.
Well, the day after I left his office, I saw him on a Tuesday.
Had to follow up with him the following Tuesday for those lab tests.
That Wednesday, right after I just saw him, I got appendicitis.
Duke: in a
Chuck: And had it taken out on Thursday.
So I come back the following Tuesday going, Hey doc, you missed something,
and I've got four holes in me.
Cory: Oh.
Duke: Silence.
Chuck: a little elevated.
I'm going to refer you to urologist.
The urologist says, okay, yeah, we're going to do a biopsy on you.
So we scheduled that for, like, December of 2017
Cory: the the
Chuck: uh,
Cory: the
Chuck: I'm going to stop right here before I get to the end because if there's any
guys out there who have encountered this, you know, somebody I am an open book.
I, I put myself out there and we'll listen.
We'll share what my experience is.
Sometimes it's nice to have a sympathetic ear because cancer
will mess with your mind.
in ways you do not understand yet, or maybe you've been through it.
So if anybody just wants to talk or need somebody to listen
to, I'm here, I'm here for you.
And I, I even said this to one of my, uh, Uber drivers, somehow
we got on this discussion and I went, dude, here's my card.
Call me if you ever, get diagnosed.
Cause he said, he's, he's keeping an eye on it as well.
So anyway, we, we did the biopsy, they came back positive.
Uh, it was stage two is what they told me to be.
I think because I had it on both hemispheres in the prostate and uh,
I said, well, let's take it out.
He said, we got to wait six weeks after the biopsy because you got to, I don't
know why you got to heal up for something.
They're going to take out anyway, but that's the process.
So February 23rd.
I went in for surgery, had my prostate removed, because there's cancer, there's
surgery, there's different treatments.
And I said, no, get it out.
Get it out.
And it was only in the labs afterwards, because they do a lab,
they take the nearby, lymph nodes.
Because if it's in the lymph nodes, yeah, you're probably not in a good state.
It's more like stage four.
It wasn't in the lymph nodes, thank goodness, but it was more elevated
than they thought from the biopsy.
It was actually stage three A.
And I went, that's why I had it taken out right away as fast as possible.
Now, that's not the proper course for everybody.
Everybody's situation is different.
So I'm not a doctor.
I'm not making any advisement here, you do what you feel is best for your
family, your situation, et cetera.
Well, my goal for getting it, the secondary goal for getting it taken
out as quickly as possible was I still wanted to be at knowledge 18.
Cory: Heh, heh, heh.
Chuck: or sitting down or, uh, And I got to knowledge 18.
I wasn't very comfortable most of the time, especially later in
the day after being on my feet all the time, but I made it.
I mean, Lily Lee will tell you when the when we walked from,
The palazzo to the mirage.
I was in serious old man staggering mode going.
Oh, this is this is not comfortable anymore.
I'd rather not do this, but made it through that.
And, uh, it's it's.
It's been a full recovery ever since.
After the surgery, you get tested for PSAs every quarter
for the first couple of years.
Then it's every half year.
And then it goes down to annually.
So it's always been coming back as 0.
So there's no indication that anything has ever spread.
So , that's my story.
And again, if anybody is out there, if you got diagnosed, or if you've
got indicators, or if it's I'm here, reach out to me, find me on LinkedIn.
Cory: Wow.
Well, you know, first I want to say, I'm glad that you beat the hell out of cancer.
Um, yep.
Chuck: Yeah.
I had a classmate, a high school classmate that was diagnosed like 30 days after me.
His surgery wasn't until May.
So he was, you know, a couple months behind me in surgery.
But we had.
The most, uh, I would, I would call them intimate personal
phone calls we'd call at first.
It was like once a month or once a week and then it became once a month.
And then we started texting and I still text him every once in a while.
Hey, Don, how's it going?
Uh, sailboat is working.
Well, got a new sailboat.
So we kept in touch.
It drew us closer than we ever were.
Previous in our lifetime.
He's also kind of related to me.
Remember me talking about uncle ben the grandpa ben the finlander it's
his Son stepson son in law, so we're kind of related through marriage
remarriage in laws and kind of stuff So yeah, it kind of became a fun
relationship like that to talk to don
Duke: am going
Cory: you know, from , being in this, situation, right, where you're fighting
for essentially, fighting for your life, . And then, , you have a friend
who is going through pretty much the exact same thing at the exact same time.
Chuck: Yeah.
And his doctor would tell him, you know, did you try this medication or how
about this appliance or this, what is he telling you that mine may have missed
or, and then I could go to my doctor and say, Hey, I heard about this option.
Is that for me?
Well, we could consider that.
And dah, dah, dah.
So it was, it was more information is better, just like in the tech industry.
Knowledge is power.
The more, you know, the more options you've got, the more
tools in your arsenal you've got.
So it was just another one of those situations only on a more personal level.
Cory: Yeah.
Right.
Absolutely.
Wow.
Uh, so, , Chuck number one, right?
Like really happy to have this conversation with you, but number two,
happy to be able to give, this part of the message to platform, right.
For folks who are out there who might have gone through this, who
might be going through this, who might go through it in the future.
To just kind of shine that light and, and let folks know that, you
know, Hey, you, you can't beat this.
it is possible.
And, you know, keep your chin up, right?
Chuck: The other thing that cancer will do to you is it makes
you appreciate life way more.
I know that's very cliche.
A lot of people say it.
It is absolutely 100 percent true.
Hopefully you can learn to appreciate life without getting a major life
threatening illness or, incident, but the definitely, I remember I was
recuperating like a week or so after my boss's boss sent me an email that
said, take whatever time you need.
We've got you covered.
And I was in tears.
I don't know what happened, but this emotional dial went extremely soft on me.
And It's still there.
It's just dialed back a little bit.
So, I don't cry over email anymore, but it really does like, man, I,
I don't know what I did to deserve this appreciation or, or support.
it's really nice that people are there and that means the world
and that's that plays into.
the way I envision our ServiceNow community, the, the coworkers that
I've got, the, the family that's out there, it really is a wonderful thing.
And, and I truly, truly appreciate that.
Cory: Absolutely.
I mean, it's you just,
Duke: Okay.
Cory: yeah, I can't imagine.
I can't even imagine it.
It gives me a little emotional thinking about it.
Truthfully, because, you know, just hearing about
like the, the support, right?
Like, you know, in, in, in this situation that, that you got and,
you know, in hearing, you know, a little bit of that residual
emotion still in your voice, right?
I know you're trying to try to hide it a little bit, but, I can kind of hear
it there and I don't know, just I've, I've had folks in, in my family too,
so it touches a little bit, we've had you talking for a long time, Chuck, so
Duke: go right to the bleeding edge here.
We've got a couple more, uh, go for it.
Cory: no, go for it.
Duke: Chuck, favorite episode of Star Trek The Next Generation.
Chuck: Oh, man.
Cory: oh man.
Here we go.
Chuck: Albuquerque, I'll tell you, , you know, I'm going to
have to go with, it's a toss up.
It really is between all good things.
The final episode, , or, best of both worlds, obviously part one
and part two, you know, where.
Picard gets taken as Locutus.
We've been introduced to the board earlier, but this is
really where it was in your face.
Like, oh my gosh, this was for the repeat, really old people.
It's almost like a who shot JR moment when they closed out that episode going.
Oh, yeah.
But, um, yeah, best of both worlds.
Part one and two is very, very good.
I have always had a secret cosplay desire to dress up as a
board, but a little too complex.
Cory: Oh, yeah, that'd be awesome.
Chuck: The other, the other one that I would love to do is Saru from Discovery.
Duke: I didn't watch Discovery.
Cory: Not familiar with
Chuck: It's all, uh, it's, uh, he is a Kelpien, which is, more
like a, almost like a lizard.
Now, Doug Jones is the the actor, . He is a very tall, lanky individual.
And he wears these, hoof boots.
So, that adds to his height.
He's a very, very tall character in the show.
Walking on those things has got to be a nightmare.
I'm not worried about the boots yet.
I'm, this is all predicated on me finding a good Saru mask.
I found some crappy ones.
Duke: that's a, I just looked it up on the Google and it's pretty crazy.
Cory: Yeah.
Chuck: I met Doug Jones.
He is, as a, as a human being, he's already like 6'4 So
he's, he's a tall individual.
Cory: Wow.
Yeah.
Duke: shoot, that Cosplay?
Hold on a second.
Back up.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
Chuck: It can be easy.
It can be hard.
I mean,
Duke: I'll bet you those people out there listening don't know what your best
Chuck: okay, cosplay is is when you dress up as a character from a book, a
game, a movie, a TV show, whatever you are, you're taking on that persona and
that as a look, and it could be a made up character, you know, Hey, I'm dressed
up as, Anson Rodriguez from whatever.
And there was no right answer.
Rodriguez.
That's right.
Because I made up the character and I am that person now.
Duke: Yeah, it's
Cory: put on a red shirt.
Duke: uh, it's immersing yourself in the fantasy of whatever,
Chuck: Yes, and mine generally tend to stick around Star Trek.
I've got four, five, maybe six Star Trek costumes.
The black and gray from DS9 slash Insurrection.
I've got the white waiter from Insurrection.
I call it the white waiter.
That's what Picard is.
Senior crew were dressed up as at the beginning.
, so various costumes and cosplays from mostly star trek and boy they come
out and change them every year or more like I can't keep up with this It's
an expensive hobby but there's always someone in china selling a cheap one.
So thank goodness for that
Cory: There you go.
And then you just dress it up.
Chuck: The it could be simple like that I I did one a few years ago where
I had um, like one of those fake Caps that go on your head that looks like
your brains are sticking out And I put a Klingon dagger in there and I
went as the unfortunate red shirt.
Cory: Oh, nice.
Duke: Which.
Chuck: I have a picture standing next to somebody cosplaying as Jesus
and like he's trying to heal me.
It was it was a great picture.
Yeah, the other one that I do is from Futurama.
I mentioned I'm a Futurama fan and years ago, we came up with
the idea to put a Santa Claus at the end of the Dragon Con parade.
Dragon Con is a nerdy gra is a great way to explain it in Atlanta,
Georgia on Labor Day weekend, first weekend in September every year.
I made this mention on our first year we went there in 2009.
I'm going to put a Santa at the end of the parade.
There's actually a video that documented us.
They spotlighted our group at this last DragonCon.
So I'll share the link as soon as I can.
It's still in post production right now.
I dress up as Hubert Farnsworth.
Good news, everyone, you know the
Cory: Oh, yeah, yeah,
Duke: Silence.
Chuck: so the, the 164 year old guy I put on a bald appliance, it takes me an
hour and a half to put on all the makeup.
I get my lab coat, my slippers, and I, I shuffle down Peach Tree Street
in Atlanta, Georgia, in my slippers and, and some surgical pants.
Every year.
It's a wonderful time, but that's another community builder because out of this
harebrained idea of putting Santa Claus at the end of the parade, who happens to
be the evil robot Santa from the cartoon.
And that's, that's as much fun as it is.
And, uh, we get all these people, we got three Zap Brannigans, and we've got two
fries and a lady fry and a Lila's mom.
And it was, it's this great community.
And we get a group picture that's my banner art on Facebook every year.
I refresh it because it's a different group.
And I, that's one of those moments to savor.
Just stand there and go, a crazy idea, much like the bow tie has grown
into this and people, uh, adore it.
it just, you can't let moments like that go by
Cory: Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, my God man,
Duke: Where do we even start?
Where do we...
Chuck: unrecognized.
We'll do
Duke: yeah.
Well, we're 51 minutes of record.
This has been one of the
Chuck: another one.
We'll do another one.
Duke: Okay, what's your favorite karaoke song then, Mr.
Chuck: Oh, it depends.
Duke: Interests?
Chuck: Okay, so I got I got hooked on karaoke.
It really hit its peak.
At knowledge 19.
Is that when it was?
Yeah, it was 19.
Dave slusher at us all go over to Ellis Island in Vegas.
It's like this 1960s casino, you know, one floor look like Frank Sinatra could
walk in at any moment saying songs anyway.
And that's when the idea hit me to build an app on service.
Now that catalogs as many karaoke songs as I could find on YouTube
and make an app out of this.
And we use this for Okay.
This year we had two digital karaoke parties, , at DragonCon.
So I was up to like 2, 2.
30 in the morning just hosting this party, sing a couple songs.
It really depends on the venue.
If I want to get something that people sing along with, I pick a sing along song.
you know, like, like, yeah, Sweet Caroline or Centerfold by J.
Giles Band, where they're going na, na, na,
Duke: Yeah, right, right, right.
Chuck: You get something to sing along.
If, if I'm at home and I just want to, you know, Chill out.
I'll go for some of the slower songs and anything from air supply to
journeys faithfully or something.
If I were,
Duke: you're gonna rock out Journey?
You
Chuck: Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Uh,
Duke: the biggest vocal range of every, uh, of any male human that's ever
Chuck: Oh, sing, sing some of the queen songs, man.
Freddie's all over the roads.
That is a blast or Frankie Valley.
How he goes from, the gravelly voice to the falsetto voice.
Those are fun.
Cory: Yeah, now, now Chuck, now you've got me interested in karaoke like
Duke: But of but of course Chuck's gonna do the queen and the and
the journey and all the like,
Cory: right?
Like,
Duke: mere mortals can't do.
Cory: like you don't do anything halfway.
Chuck
Chuck: It's a grand experiment because as I was growing up, you know, we'd
often do cartoon voices or something.
And, and it's a lot like that.
Singing these different character voices is a lot like
doing those character voices.
You just kind of find your range and, and what can you do?
And at home I can experiment and fail.
It's real easy.
And I go, something will click and I go, Oh, I like that song.
Or sometimes I'll hear something on the radio and go, I, you
know, I think I could do that.
Let's try it out.
Duke: Well, Chuck, you apparently have a hard stop in 120 seconds.
Chuck: And we didn't even talk about the Star Trek cruise yet.
Cory: Oh,
Duke: The Star Trek crew?
I mean, shall there be a part two?
Cory: there should be a part two
Duke: There should be a part two.
Chuck: Leave the listener with that.
Leave them wanting more, right?
Duke: Yep.
Cory: man.
Duke: Thanks so much for stopping by, Chuck.
It was an honor.
Chuck: You bet.
Cory: Absolutely.
I really appreciate it, Chuck.
Duke: All right.
Thanks.