Pete Wright: I'm Pete Wright.
Andy Nelson: And I'm Andy Nelson.
Pete Wright: Welcome to the next reel when the movie ends.
Andy Nelson: Our conversation begins.
Pete Wright: Shattered is over. Forget Mexico. I've got a better idea. We're doing Shattered. Andy, what a movie.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. For for this season, when we were picking movies, I strategically picked all movies I had never seen, which this series that I wanted to return to, which is the spoiled, rotten twist endings, which is like, once you've seen it, can you return to the film, and will it be rotten now because the twist is spoiled? Like, does the twist hold up essentially is the whole premise of this series. And watching these for the first time, it's hard to actually say that, but I can speculate, like, how would how do I think that this would fare on rewatch? That's kind of what we're doing with this particular return to the series.
And this was one of them that I was curious about. I'd heard things about it. I remember it coming out. I remember the trailer with the visuals of the the body kind of crashing through a windshield and, like, very artistic images. Wolfgang Petersen's a director that I've generally always liked.
And so, yeah, this was one that I wanted to add to the list and, finally, check this film off my list.
Pete Wright: I had never seen it. I'd never heard of it. I don't remember seeing the trailer. This was a completely new experience for me from jump, and it was crazy. It is very crazy.
It was crazy. Yeah. I don't know. Where do you wanna start?
Andy Nelson: Well, we should just let people know. These this series I mean, in general, you should know. You know, watch the movie before tuning into our show because we do spoil them. This particular series, though, I mean, it's all about this the twist endings, and we are certainly spoiling those. So check out the film before you tune into this, episode.
Pete Wright: Then let's do this first. How about we do this first? Without saying anything about the movie, let's just say, is this movie rotten if spoiled?
Andy Nelson: What is your vote? I I don't think the movie is rotten if spoiled. Replaying the movie in my head after watching it, you know, because I always look for those moments where would a character act that way? Like, are they acting the way that they would if they were alone? Or are they acting that way alone because there's a film camera pointed at them, and they have to be acting this particular way for the audience to kind of go along with what they're doing?
I think mostly it works. I think that there are a few things that Greta Scotti's character may be up to that you may have a harder time with. But largely, I think I can see this story playing out still okay after knowing what the twist is at the end.
Pete Wright: I think I'm a little bit more bearish on the second time experience. I'd I after watching the movie, after knowing how it plays out, I think it's a lot of it it's a lot of fun, and I think it would be like, most of that fun is rooted in figuring out the next twist. It is a telenovela level, like, dramatic twists, and I loved my experience while watching it. I think if you had told me this is how it's gonna play out, I may have put it down on my list. I don't think I'd have watched it quite so urgently.
Andy Nelson: Well and I can see that, but I I think because this film does play so over the top and I mean, it's kind of like this ultra I mean, campy is not the right word, but, you know, it's it's it's taking its over the toppness pretty seriously. Yes. Which makes it like, it fits into kinda like this vibe of these nineties thrillers. You know? I think it fit in pretty well.
And because of that element where it just seemed a little more soap opera, I guess, as you said, telenovela, like, there is this element to it that I think makes it work because it does feel it's a little everything is just a little bigger. You know?
Pete Wright: Yes. Yeah. Totally. So in that regard, I mean, take that was not a real definitive warning, but I would suggest don't listen to us right now. Like, stop listening right now.
You will have more fun if you actually watch the movie first. That's that's
Pete Wright: my I do
Andy Nelson: agree with that. I do agree
Pete Wright: with that.
Andy Nelson: Okay. To that end well, okay. So let's now do initial thoughts, but then I wanted to have about, like, how we did as far as figuring things out ahead of time. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. First so first initial thoughts. I mean I mean, it sounds like you enjoyed it. Do you I mean, the characters and everything, you kind of went along with the craziness of the story?
Pete Wright: Well, I feel like when I I've been working on my Letterbox review, and I think you're going to read a review that is full of the exuberance of a five star three heart movie. And I had such a blast. My final review rating is not that high, but loved my time with it. I was talking to it out loud. I was like, this this hit me at just the right moment.
It is so funny in so many unintentionally, like, funny. The twists are so funny, and Tom Parent's are so lost around every corner. Like, I I had a a blast watching the movie. I had a blast watching the movie. That does not indicate how good of a movie it is, but it's they it knew what it wanted to do.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. And I think that's where I was with the film. And that's why I think I feel like it could hold up as a rewatch knowing all the places it's gonna go, because it is just so over the top and, like, goof goofy fun. Like, I had a lot of fun with this movie. It was such a strange little, nineties thriller, and it it really worked for me.
And, you know, if you're not, it is one of those films where if you're not on its wavelength or if you're looking for something that's actually taking itself seriously, I think you are really not gonna have a fun time with it. But but if you're if you're able to just kinda go along with this sort of movie, I think you can have a lot of fun with it.
Pete Wright: Yeah. It's a trip through time. It loses a a heart or a star completely because the parrot didn't end up on Bob Hoskins' shoulder the whole time. Like, that parrot was a winner, and I needed more more parrot. Anyway, we'll get to that.
Andy Nelson: We'll get to Bob Hoskins and his crazy
Pete Wright: jobs. So figuring it out. How'd you do figuring it out?
Andy Nelson: So this is the sort of movie. And and, yeah, we're definitely gonna start jumping into spoiler territory here. Right away, you know, we've got this car crash, this crazy car crash. Like, I mean, in our pre show chat for our members, we were talking about some, you know, great car crashes on film. This, I think, would be one of them.
I mean, this was a crazy crazy car crash. And, man, that car got so pancaked that I was amazed that there was any semblance of a human left inside when he was in a of He yeah. There's nothing. There's no space for a person in there once it's done. But, so once I saw that, okay, he's got amnesia, and he's getting facial reconstructive surgery, my mind instantly said, oh, I wonder, who he used to be before he started looking like Tom Beringer.
Like, I instantly said that. Well, because I'm used to like, that was a kind of this element that they would do in these old Hollywood movies. Yeah. Like, what's the one where Humphrey Bogart gets facially reconstruction destructive surgery to look like Humphrey Bogart as part of his criminal plot. I can't remember the movie, but and, you know, we're gonna be talking on an upcoming movies we like episode about Thunderball, and that's a plot element in that one where they're taking somebody and making him look like a totally different person.
And and so I guess that was just where my head went. I stopped thinking about it after a while, and so I I lost lost that thread. You know? Because, I mean, it was fun because he is trying to figure out what the hell happened. And I started going, okay.
So did he, act actually kill, this other guy? And then when we see the head in the in the boat, I'm like, oh, okay. I had been right. If I had just stayed on that initial thread, I would have been able to figure it all out. But yeah.
So I I never quite figured out until I saw the head, but I had those inklings. I just I didn't follow through.
Pete Wright: I was I I think it'd be probably gracious to say I was behind you. I figured out the movie with great confidence three times and was wrong every time. Like, I fell I fell for every clue. Yeah. Like, I knew they were playing me.
I just could never quite put my finger on it until I think it it was pretty close to the ultimate reveal. It was, like, before Hoskins came for his final, like, I'm gonna arrest you bit. Like, I I think right before that, I was like, oh, okay. I think I see what's going on here. I missed the whole part about the facial reconstruction.
Like, I should've that should've been key, and I missed it. So I knew that she was obviously she there something she was taking advantage of him somehow. There was there was something going on where she was trying to get him killed. Like, I figured out all of that part with the exception of the fact that they were different people, and that's pretty key.
Andy Nelson: Well and, you know, I think maybe one of the things that left me shifting away from that early on is I mean, for somebody who's having massive facial reconstructive surgery, like, he has nary a scar. Like, there's hardly a mark left on his body when he's healed. And so I think that's what why I let go of that idea fairly early on because Tom Beringer just looked so Tom Beringer. You know? It it didn't look like Tom Beringer, but there there were still some funny scars on his face that would come up later in the story, you know?
Pete Wright: They needed him to look really good like Tom Beringer
Andy Nelson: for the story to work. Exactly. Exactly.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Yeah. Ultimately yeah. I mean, there were there were enough fun twists, and and the you know, I really enjoyed when they brought Bob Hoskins in to to help us kind of narrate it for ourselves, right, to help the audience, you know, point out the key clues and and resolve the story. I actually I liked both of the of the women, their motivations.
The Corbin Burnson relationship was funny, though underplayed. Like, I think there could have been more of a trick in the middle of the movie to demonstrate Burnson's role. Like And he disappears. He disappears.
Andy Nelson: He hit a certain point in the film, and he's just not there the rest of the time, which
Trailer: Yeah.
Andy Nelson: I was like, oh, that was I yeah. I agree with you. Like, they could have found a way to extend that and and thread him through a little more through the rest of the film. I think that you could have had another great red herring that could have led us down a different path.
Pete Wright: Yeah. So I yeah. I mean, I guess, you know, now we're getting into some film details, but that's that's me. I didn't I didn't figure it out until way too late, and I'm a little bit of embarrassed by that. The movie played me.
As a movie lover, I should have figured it out sooner.
Andy Nelson: Well, but I think that's why I find it to be a fun film because it it's they're they are doing the they're playing along with what we want in a film like this with these pretty unbelievable sorts of of tropes and everything that we that we have going throughout the story. Like, the fact that this person has amnesia, so convenient for his wife to use that to her advantage. Right? And and like that, it is so interesting to to see how she she, you know, effectively used that to her advantage in that brief window of time that she had to actually put those puzzle pieces together to figure out, okay. What can I do here?
Right?
Pete Wright: Yeah. Right. In hours, as she describes it, she had hours more than that because she was, you know, a criminal.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Right.
Pete Wright: The the I I think that's really that that's really it. That his amnesia is quite specific for the plot. And the fact that he remembers so much about his life before the accident and nothing in there relates to his identity. I just it's hard. It's hard for me to believe that he could be played quite so thoroughly.
Andy Nelson: Well, right. Because remembering your life before the accident, then it should be like, well, then why does he not remember ever working at that place with Jeb? Right? Like, he has no recollection of any of that or the type of work he did. There's really nothing that he remembers, and it's like, he should be remembering a whole different set of things.
And all he really remembers, like, it's it's they say it's a specific amnesia, but it really seems like a complete wipe amnesia. And the only thing that he really has are hallucinatory images of rolling around having sex in the waves. Like, that's kind of
Pete Wright: That was the one memory. Remember something, Andy. Yeah. I know. Right?
So here's the thing about that amnesia, because they call it psychogenic amnesia. And psychogenic amnesia is a thing. And, or it's it's sometimes called dissociative amnesia or functional amnesia, and it is the sudden loss of autobiographical memory and personal identity. And it is commonly precipitated by a traumatic event, severe stress, or depression. Individuals are often unaware of their previous lives and unconcerned about their amnesiac condition.
So this is one of those things, right, where it's a true thing. What they are depicting, hell, it may be a documentary for all I know. But because of the context of this movie, it feels unbelievable or or or circumspect while I'm watching it. It feels fake.
Andy Nelson: But I but I'm glad that you described it because for some reason in my head, I was thinking that it was amnesia. Whatever they described it as, I thought it was amnesia from the point of the accident forward, but it's really everything. It's basic it basically No.
Pete Wright: That's Guy Pearce amnesia.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. It's basically it is a wipe Yeah. Of everything. Yeah. Okay.
So that actually
Pete Wright: Yeah.
Andy Nelson: Works. So I think it works.
Pete Wright: That is. So you can't recall personal information, and it is highly, highly disputed, and controversial diagnosis. Apparently, because it feels fake to some other people too.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Right. Right.
Pete Wright: Right. Like, if I just suddenly can't remember who I am or that I know how to podcast, you would think that's crazy.
Andy Nelson: And the fact that you don't worry too much about it. You're like, yeah. Yes. Okay. Yeah.
Like, that makes it seem like you're just faking it.
Pete Wright: It does. Yeah. Maybe. So that's the deal. And but it there is a funny moment in the movie where he goes to he goes back
Andy Nelson: to work. He's an architect. Right? He's an architect.
Pete Wright: He goes back to work. And at some point, he does some architect y things at this big development shop. Right? And then we have a scene where he comes to work, like, another day later, and Berndsen's sitting at his desk going through his stuff, and he says something like, you know, we should talk about what you're working on. What it it tells me is, I don't know if you remember how to architect things anymore, and so we should talk about that.
When that's a funny clue because he's not an architect. Right. He was never an architect.
Andy Nelson: My favorite bit when he comes back to work, he's talking to his secretary, and he's and he's just like, did we ever get together? Like, he's, like, somewhat convinced. Like, I must have had an affair with my secretary because she the way she looks at me. It was a weird moment that, I don't know, made me laugh quite a bit.
Pete Wright: Totally. Because that's like, there are so many of those, like, mood MacGuffins. Right? Were we supposed to think more about the secretary? No.
We weren't. She was in it for a little bit.
Andy Nelson: But it was interesting because I looked at the secretary. I actually wrote in my notes. I'm like, okay. There is almost a hint that she looks like she could play as a Greta Skocke look alike
Pete Wright: A %.
Andy Nelson: If they needed that somewhere else in the film. So I was thinking, okay. She is somehow involved, and she was playing Greta, Greta's character Judith. And, like, so I was going down that road of of looking for twists.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Absolutely. She I thought that was fascinating. She's only in, like, two scenes, maybe three, and then she's gone. So that's that's a wipe.
We don't need to worry about her. And, again, Corbin Burnham is gone. What was the other one? Oh, there was the the I did love, and I did not go into my usual level of detail on this, but I did love that Bob Hodkins, as long as we're in his office, pulls out the typeface of the fax machine and that he and the secretary had a discussion about how how much she loves that particular typeface, Regal Premier or something like that, in on that fax machine, and she's the only one who loves it. And that's why that fax machine became important.
Yeah. I mean Yeah. Yeah. You know, setting up the pieces.
Andy Nelson: Weird little beat. But again, it just it's it's the sort of weird, like, Sherlock Holmes detail that kind of makes you go, okay. I can buy Gus as this crazy pet shop owner by day, detective by night sort of woman they wrote for him. It was the strangest character combination, but I just loved everything about Bob Hoskins in this film. He was just it was such a strange world they created for this character to inhabit, and I loved every piece of it.
Pete Wright: Do you know why? Because you're absolutely right. It's so strange. And yet the way he sets it up, the way he talks about it is totally believable. That he was a private detective for thirty years, and he fell out of love with the human race.
And so now he runs a pet store foster kind of operation and loves animals more than people. I bought that. Like, that was a that's a rich character that they were able to give me on screen very efficiently. Like, that we didn't need to belabor too much of that. I figured out like, we figured out who he was very quickly and his role in this thing.
And his just innate curiosity was it it paid off. Everything paid off about Hoskins' character. I loved his character in this movie.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Even as unbelievable as it was, the fact that when then he gets shot toward the end, he falls into the water, presumably either dies by gunshot or drowns. But, no, he is able to breathe underwater with his inhaler, his asthma inhaler.
Trailer: That He's licking a mural? What? I don't think I don't think it's a mural inhaler.
Pete Wright: I I need to ask I need to
Trailer: ask the Internet.
Pete Wright: Can you breathe underwater
Trailer: with hate
Andy Nelson: gun. Yeah. How much oxygen is actually in one pump of albuterol? That was so crazy.
Pete Wright: Mhmm. What? Oh, yes, you can use your albuterol inhaler before scuba diving if your asthma is well controlled, but you should avoid diving for forty eight hours after using a rescue inhaler. Oh. So I'm gonna say probably not.
Andy Nelson: Oh, that was that was a good laugh, man.
Pete Wright: Yeah. I chuckled the dog. Good. Like, I just you know, they're not sealed. You put them around your mouth.
They're still, like, they're not sealed for those who haven't used albuterol inhalers.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Please don't use this film as as proof that you could go diving with an albuterol inhaler.
Pete Wright: So good.
Trailer: Oh, man.
Pete Wright: Yeah. So there are some things that are truly ridiculous in this movie. And yet, the universe of the and that's the that's the roller coaster. Some things like his character setup is are are there so good. And some things like how he survives at the end and how spry he is running across that that gangplank to get to Dan, really unbelievable.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. But it was it by that point in the film, like, I had just gone along with everything else. I'm like, you know, whatever in this crazy world. Sure. Sure.
Go ahead. And then they hop in the helicopter together, and they may as well have said, this looks like the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Like, it just like, it feels like that's where we're going with this whole thing. Oh my god. So funny.
Pete Wright: Yes. Let let's talk a little bit about Jenny, Joanne Wally's character.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. This is this is Jeb's wife, Corbin Burnson's wife. Yeah. Both men, as we find out, are kind of abusive asses. Like, neither of them are great guys.
The only reason Dan, Tom Beringer's character, happens to be kind of a great guy in the film is because we find out, you know, with the big twist, later that, you know, that that's the reason that he's not necessarily as abusive right now. But Jenny has put up with it, but she's also really into horoscopes and, as we find out, has been having an affair with Dan.
Pete Wright: She's she's kind of an interesting character because she they said I and I I actually bought into her daffiness as another another thing I'm not supposed to follow all that hard, and so I didn't pay much attention to her for most of the movie until it comes out that she's they've been having an affair and that there's another layer to this to this thing. But in fact, she's been having an affair with the dead version of him, and it's very confusing.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Right. Right.
Pete Wright: I kind of wanted there to be some realization where she's, like, kissing him or something, and it's like, you don't taste the same or something like that. Know what I mean? Like, there's there's some realization that that, she recognizes, before everybody else because of the affair. That would have been a nice twist.
Andy Nelson: Well, and she does. Right? Like, that's the why she gets killed. That's why Judith kills her because of well, I can't remember what it was like, a birthmark or a scar or something. Not a scar.
I mean, I mean, he's got a gazillion scars now or a tattoo or something that was it was something on his hand. I just can't remember what it was. But Right. But she has that she has that moment where she, oh, it's because she could read his palms. And when she went to look at his the lines on his hand, she noticed that they were different, and that's why Judith kills her.
Yeah.
Pete Wright: Yeah. And okay. Let's just think long term fingerprints. Are we gonna resolve that? No.
We're we're not gonna talk about that right now. So anyway, yeah, she figures it out, and that's why she dies. I really liked her character. I I wish I I sort of wish there was a little bit more of her in here. I it felt like she she was told we were told that she figured it out, and then she was dead.
Andy Nelson: Right. Like, that's that's all that happens. Like, they have that moment on the beach, and when he comes back later, she's just dead. And so we don't, yeah, we there I also could have used like another scene or two with her just to kind of play that out a little better as far as the way that that was developing, you know? Right.
But I like her and that's like the, like I agree with you. Like, there is this daffy quality to the fact that she's into horoscopes and scopes and and signs and all of these sorts of things, and it worked for me that, like, I could buy that Corbin Burnson would fall for her, but then also be sick of her. And, like, it just it played well. Like, the the relationship played, the affair played. Like, everything about that character, I thought, worked.
It made sense for me in the film.
Pete Wright: Oh, yeah. Me too. I I think she I I think everything about their relationship in the context of the soap opera that it is was fantastic. I and and if anything, I just wanted more. And and so I guess that takes us to Greta Skocchi.
Like you said, there were there are some things about her behavior that didn't feel quite, what, earned.
Andy Nelson: Well, yeah. Well, it's it's it's that and this is one of those moments. Like, when a character is by themselves in a film, and they they know that there's something going on. Like, I I always on rewatches, I I'm always looking. I'm like, okay.
If that person knows that all of this has been faked and they are actually the guilty party, why are they acting, you know, scared at this particular moment or surprised or or shocked at this particular moment? Like, I struggle with those sorts of elements in a film because it's like, well, that wouldn't happen because they are the guilty party. Like, we just talked about this recently in grand slam when, we were talking about, Janet Leigh's character and some of the moments she was alone knowing that she is knowing her role in everything that had been going on, but then why is she acting the way she is when she's alone? You know? And so I I struggle with those sorts of moments.
And there there are a couple of those moments with Greta in this film, and I'm I'm trying to
Pete Wright: remember exactly what they were. There's there's one significant one that I feel like wasn't resolved, at least to my satisfaction, which is at the very end. She drives up to the hotel in the white Mercedes. She goes inside. She changes her clothes and puts on a disguise to look like the other guy, Stanton.
Goes out the back, gets in the red Porsche, and then comes around the block and drives up again to get out of the red Porsche. Right. Right.
Andy Nelson: At the house.
Pete Wright: How did she know that they were watching the hotel? Yeah. That was a very elaborate switcheroo for her to set up and go park the Mercedes there without being how did she know they were watching at that moment and not at the moment where she drove the the Porsche to hide it in the bushes? Like, how did she know that? And that sort of those moments of implausibility are the things that make the rewatch of the movie less satisfying.
Andy Nelson: Right. Because you're like, well, she's yeah. Was she does she have her own detective that is keeping her updated? Is she just detective on her own? Yeah.
Like, like, you start wondering about like those sorts of things. And I guess part of that is, you know, you've seen enough movies where when people are being followed, it's kind of almost like a a fifty fifty at this point when in any movie where someone's being followed where you're like, you know, yeah, fifty fifty chance that they know they're being followed or they they don't know they're being followed because we've seen it play out both ways over and over again. So your mind is already going, well, she probably knows. Well, she might not. But it's just one of those things where it's hard to really be convinced one way or the other because movies so easily can just say, I knew all along or I didn't know.
You know? It's it's it's just such a an easy out to have somebody getting followed and surprise, we knew. Well and
Pete Wright: and devil's advocacy for the film. Like, there there is like, the constraint of making a movie is that you're really gonna show like, we don't really know how long Berenger and Hoskins were sitting in the car. Maybe they were there for nine hours waiting for a thing, but he had gotten that that clue. Like, she set up that clue by sending the telegram to say, I'm gonna be there at 05:00. So now that I say all that, I realize the telegram was in play.
Maybe that's that's enough. Is that enough? I don't know. It seems like a really big switcheroo. But it's well thought out.
Like, it it is it's well thought out. The movie showed us the the parts of time that make the that make the the narrative work, and and so that's it's fine. I was on the ride at that point anyway.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. And I think that's the thing. It's like, you know what? You've got me. I'm here.
I'm on the ride. I'm not gonna worry too much about little things like that, I guess. Yeah. And and I guess in the scope of Judith as the essentially our antagonist of the story here, I think that it plays where by the time we get to the end and the switches and everything, and we really understand the full extent of where the story is taking us, I can I'm I'm like, yeah. Okay.
I can see that this was a plan that she put into place. I mean, she knows that it's Jack that she's with, and that's why she keeps, she panics when she finds out that Dan said, oh, I I didn't want that wreck to be destroyed. I can't remember. They were gonna tow the wreck.
Pete Wright: Tow it out to sea and
Andy Nelson: sink And then sink it. And he said, I don't want it. I said to cancel that, because he felt, well, he had followed her one night out to that shipwreck. And so he's like, I feel like there's something with my past there, and so I don't want that destroyed. And she has that huge panic moment, like, oh my god.
What are you crazy? And then she's like, let's just run off to Mexico. Like, there were a lot of those beats with her that like, I just liked the way that her character was portrayed because you can buy into this mania that she has in trying to figure out how to get out of all of this. You know? She's she's convinced everybody, including her including the her lover that Dan is alive, and essentially, they're gonna make off with all of his fortunes now.
And everything is hunky dory, except the fact that Dan keeps screwing things up. Right? He's and and, like, that's why it plays so well. And so all of these moments with her, like, I I thought Greta Scotti was great as the antagonist of the film. Like, she seems like the loving wife who's trying to help her husband, but the the twists and turns worked enough for me for me to kind of buy into where we end up by the time we get to the end of the film.
Pete Wright: Yeah. No. I I absolutely agree. I thought she was she was fascinating, and I didn't I I I guess there aren't so many of those moments as maybe as I'm thinking in retrospect that I was testing her that I think would suck on rewatch because I think she's she plays it. Like, she plays she she plays the twist.
She just to be clear, she was going to kill the guy.
Andy Nelson: Jack? Yeah. I think that she was going to kill well, she was going to kill Jack as Jack.
Pete Wright: As Jack. Yeah. She's not a good person, but maybe this whole event could have turned her around. Like, had he just stopped trying to figure out who he was? Maybe she would have turned a new leaf, and they could have lived a wonderful life together in Mexico.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, with with all of the money that they had, I mean, absolutely. So
Pete Wright: And that's the that's the that's the fun twist for thinking about this movie is that if they had just stopped, if if he had just stopped, this would be a non movie because she would have won. She would have gotten everything she wants on an accident because he wasn't supposed to survive, and and she would have gotten away with it. And, ultimately, what ends up happening is I think I think it's safe to say that he takes on the role of Dan and just stays as Dan.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Well, I think I think we absolutely buy that because Gus knows what Yeah. You know, what happened. And the fact that at the end, Gus says, you know, come on, Dan. I mean, he may as well wink and, like, elbow him in the ribs when he calls him Dan.
It's like, I know who you are, you. And because yeah. Because now Dan has all this money. Yeah. And I think that's that's the whole game at the end of the film is that, he's now this rich, architect.
So it's interesting.
Pete Wright: Yeah. I well, and he's gonna be bought out because that was the last thing that Burnson had said. We're gonna set up a time. We're gonna talk about our partner buyout, so you're gonna get even more money, and you're gonna be done. You can just retire.
This whole thing was a retirement plan. Yeah. This sounds great.
Andy Nelson: Stop stop screwing up my want to go pollute the ocean. Yeah. Essentially what Corbin says in that conversation.
Pete Wright: Put the formaldehyde in the ocean. Yeah. What is that? Is that how you is that how you carry formaldehyde on the sea? Like, it's just in these big rusty vats?
Andy Nelson: Mhmm.
Trailer: Of course.
Pete Wright: That's it. For those who haven't seen the movie, you should have seen the movie. But the the the acid, it's a it's a toxic chemical vault in Yeah. In this in this ship, and that's where they dump the body. That's where she dumps the body of Jack.
And it turns out she dumps the body in formaldehyde.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Which is great. She's assuming that it's going to dissolve the body like it's some form of acid, but she just puts it in formaldehyde and preserves it. That was one of the funniest reveals. And when
Pete Wright: he when he pulls the head up, it really does look kind of like pickled, like preserved like a pickle.
Andy Nelson: Oh, man. So funny. Yeah. You know, going through their characters, we haven't really talked about Tom Beringer much. We've I mean, you know, it's a great reunion for him and Corbin Burnson.
We talked about Major League way early in the show, I think first season, actually. And first or second, at least. And then after this, they will return together to do, Major League two. And then we've talked about, you know, some spattering of Christopher Nolan films where Tom Beringer, you know, has a bit part like Inception, things like that.
Pete Wright: Big Chill. Right?
Andy Nelson: Big Chill. We talked about the movies we like. Yep. Yep.
Pete Wright: Did we do platoon?
Andy Nelson: Oh, yeah. We did platoon in Oliver Stone in the eighties series. That's right. Yep. So I really like Tom Beringer.
I've always like, this era in particular, like, I feel like I was just like every other movie I was watching had Tom Beringer in it. He was just in everything. And I enjoy him quite a bit as this lost person trying to figure out who he is and everything. Like, it he played it well for me. Did you what did you think of Beringer?
Pete Wright: Yeah. And you know when you get it is is when we have the there's, like, the flashback when she's telling the the real story or it's all coming back to him where he is because he's told multiple times, you've changed, man. You were a jerk before, and now you're nice. And when you see him call her, like, call her out and say, you know, I'm gonna get you, and she backs away from him, gun goes off, and she shoots him. Like, that, you get to see why Tom Beringer is great for this part because he is over the top menacing in just the same way that he's over the top kind of innocent.
And and most of the movie, he's playing that sort of new babe innocence, and, and I think he gets away with it. But partially, it's because the guy can turn on a dime.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. I just yeah. He's a lot of fun in this role. I think he brings as he starts figuring things out, there's a little bit of a sense of that intense menace that he can bring.
And I I just I I thought he was, thought he was great in it. Yeah. Me too. Interestingly, William Hurt was attached to star in this, before Tom Beringer ended up taking the role. And Bruce Willis was offered the role but had turned it down.
Likewise, Nicole Kidman actually tested for the role of Judith before Greta Scotti got the part. Some interesting alternate versions of the film with those other actors in it.
Pete Wright: That's so funny. Like, you could do all of the men in the big chill cast. So Tom Barrage or William Hurt. I could honestly see Kevin Klein. Could you do Goldblum?
Could see Goldblum pulling it off in the nineties. You bet. You bet. Yeah. That's real that's really funny.
Costner? This could have been a Costner joint.
Andy Nelson: This this could have
Pete Wright: been, honestly. Yeah. Fascinating.
Andy Nelson: Great little great little bunch. Yeah.
Pete Wright: It's got a so the vibe, it's got this this real sort of noir vibe. What'd you think of the camera? Camera and light.
Andy Nelson: Well, I think Wolfgang Petersen, generally, when he's directing, I think he works well with his with the camera department to craft the films to have the right look. Like, just, you know, we've talked about Das Boad on this show and just the the intense contrasty light inside the submarine and how dark and tight the spaces are. I think he just captured that so perfectly. Here, I I think that the film I mean, great fog shots in the road and everything, like some some wonderful moments that we have throughout the film. And I think that Laszlo Kovacs as the DP clearly is having fun when Wolfgang says, I need some dream sequences and some hallucinatory memories and things like that.
Like, I just loved, and I remember from the trailer, like, charred body, like, smashing through a windshield. Like, though that moment that we see over and over again. Peter smashing that too. He's he's played it quite a bit, didn't he? But like, I love those moments.
Like, it really gives you the sense of the internal brokenness of this man. I just I really enjoyed all of that. So I I, you know, just I think for I think largely, I think the work plays really nicely throughout the film.
Pete Wright: That the signature sort of sequence for camera for me is the the crash itself. I think the the choice to be locked on the underside of the embankment that they're about to crash through and play sound of the car coming up the hill, but you can't see them in the beginning, and then the car crashes through the barrier over you is fantastic. Then clearly, a substantial rig was created to toss that car around and shoot interior of the car as that body is, like, floating. There are sequences where the body is floating and the car is turning around it. Like, it's so cool how they manage to shake up that that car.
It is an extraordinary crash, and, it's filmed just really, really well. That that that one is a highlight for me in the movie, apart from just the general mood, which is all very, very good.
Andy Nelson: They for the car crash, they had a custom built system that had a compressed gas thrust of 1,400 pounds, which sent the Mercedes five sixty SL sailing 200 feet off a cliff before it fell more than 500 feet. Recording the action, had six cameras, several manned by rope secured technicians experienced in climbing rock faces to get into pivotal positions. Camera crews lowered down the cliff had to be put in place with their equipment by a heavy duty helicopter cable capable of lifting 2,000
Pete Wright: pounds. Yeah.
Andy Nelson: So they they did everything they could to get that shot in with lots of different angles, and it paid off in dividends. Yeah. Really works really well.
Pete Wright: Yeah. It really, really did. That that's great, which which actually implies that wasn't I mean, what they put a stunt person in that car and throw him down a mountain?
Andy Nelson: I I think it was a dummy is what they had in there.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Gotta be a dummy. Of course.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. And then I I did laugh later in the film when, he and and Judith decide to go back to the crash site and just scale down the side of the mountain. I'm like, does this guy not have PTSD about anything? Like, here he is, like, going down in a cane to go look at the car wreck, which they left there.
Trailer: I was just like
Andy Nelson: I was like, oh, boy.
Pete Wright: Okay. And she's I like how she stays up top and just yells, be careful. Yeah. Right.
Andy Nelson: Music. Alan Silvestri. This is the first of two films where he came on late in the film to replace a score done by Angelo Badalamenti. This is the second one we've also talked about on this show, and we also talked about it in this very series, in our spoiled rotten twist ending series. It was identity.
That was the other film Badalamenti wrote the score for, and then they said, nope. And, and Ellen Silvestri came in last minute to write a new score. I think that is a strange bit of coincidence.
Pete Wright: That's crazy. What were the years what were the years of those?
Andy Nelson: 02/2003 for that one. So twelve years apart.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Twelve years apart. I wonder if they're buds.
Andy Nelson: I the I'm always curious to see how replaced scores play. Because sometimes when a film tests poorly, the first thing that they'll do is just write a new score for it and see if it will play better. And I wonder if it just got bad test ratings, and that's why they did it. There have been a number of instances where unused scores have been released on CD. And I don't think that either of these Battle of Menti scores have ever been released, which is a shame.
I'd really love to hear how they played. You know? I'd be curious to see if there's still enjoyable things to listen to.
Pete Wright: Yeah. I mean or it's just, you know, long long passages of plucked cello. It's possible that it's just plucked cello. It's possible.
Andy Nelson: We'll just never know. We'll never know. Alright. Yeah. Anything else hot?
Just a a little interesting side note. You know, we talked about Tom Beringer and Corbin Burnson, coming back together. This was also a reunion of sorts for Bob Hoskins and Joe Ed Whaley. They were both in Pink Floyd's The Wall. He was, the rock and roll manager, and she was a groupie in that film.
Well Look
Pete Wright: at that. That's adorable. Do you think they knew each other? I'm always curious about that.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Right? Did they were they buddy buddy on the set? Yeah. Right?
Who knows? Who knows?
Pete Wright: Well, it this plays as a a a fantastic entry into the whole psychological thriller oeuvre that was, like, we were kinda getting hammered with in the nineties. It it feels great. I'm so glad we watched it. I I don't know that I need to watch it again because, again, I I get it. I know where it's going now.
Is it spoiled rotten? No. But it's definitely spoiled.
Andy Nelson: I I I think I would have a lot of fun with this. In the scope of Wolfgang Petersen films that I would handily return to, I'm like, yeah. This would be a fun one to kind of in the if I'm in the right mood, like, can totally see sitting down and and going through this one again. Like, it's just it's kind of that goofy sort of fun.
Pete Wright: Totally. And super fun introducing it to someone else who hasn't seen it. That's one of the great joys of the spoiled rotten series is they're all even if you were spoiled, they're really fun to sit around with somebody who hasn't seen it and watch them get spoiled rotten.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And just last note, didn't mention, but this was based on a novel by Richard Neely called The Plastic Nightmare, which sounds it's a
Pete Wright: very funny title. I wonder if it's still around in print. I didn't even look. You can
Andy Nelson: still buy it as a pairing of two Richard Neely stories, The Plastic Nightmare paired with While Love Lay Dying. So I've never read any of his. He only wrote 15 novels, three of which were turned into movies. He
Pete Wright: only wrote 15 novels. Know. I hear yourself.
Andy Nelson: I know. Know. Well, I'm just saying that because we just talked about Donald e Westlake on a pre in our last series, who wrote like A
Pete Wright: hundred thousand.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Like, never never stopped. I don't know what the other Richard Neely adaptations were. Now I'm gonna have to go into that and see here. Richard Neely also, wrote the book, The Damned Innocence, that was turned into Dirty Hands in 1975.
And he wrote the novel, The Sexton Women, which was adapted into a TV movie, looks like in Japan. Chichiguroshi no hoo Haoshu in 1982. So those are the three adaptations of his works.
Pete Wright: I boy, that you cannot find them in digital in anything. Like, they're not they're just not available in my library, like in Libbey. They're you gotta probably means they're largely out of print. Yeah. Interesting.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. Did you look on Amazon? I'm curious, like Richard Neely. Like Shattered, you can still get in paperback for $3 or so.
So and yeah, the plastic nightmare slash while love lay dying, you can get on Kindle.
Pete Wright: Oh, okay.
Andy Nelson: So that one is still available.
Pete Wright: Just no demand for it at my library. God, my library. What's going on in my community? I need better readers.
Andy Nelson: I tell you.
Pete Wright: Come on, people. Come on, Rock Creek area.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. I tell you.
Pete Wright: Get with it. Some of those classics.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. As far as these adaptations, it's interesting that one was a French adaptation. One was a Japanese. This is the only American adaptation. I wonder what that says about Richard Neely's Yeah.
Popularity. Interesting.
Pete Wright: Yeah. You wonder if he was canceled somehow. We don't even know.
Andy Nelson: We don't even know.
Pete Wright: We shouldn't even be talking about him. Yeah. Okay. Take that back.
Andy Nelson: Alright. Alright. We'll be right back. But first, our credits.
Pete Wright: The next reel is a production of True Story FM Engineering by Andy Nelson, music by Mona Type, Fable Fort, Piotr Hummel, Oriel Novella, and Eli Catlin. Andy usually finds all of the stats for the awards numbers at d-numbers.com, box office mojo Com, I m d b Com, and Wikipedia.org. Find the show at truestory.fm. And if your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, please consider doing that for our show.
Andy Nelson: You wake up in a hospital bed, your face wrapped in bandages, your memory shattered like a windshield in a brutal car crash. You can't remember anything about your past or your loved ones, and you feel a strange emptiness inside as if a crucial part of your identity is missing. As you begin to recover, you stumble upon Letterboxd, a vibrant community of film lovers. The passion and enthusiasm of the members draw you in, and you start to explore the site with a free account, gaining access to unlimited films, diary entries, reviews, ratings, and lists. You catch a glimpse of a world you once knew, a world filled with the magic of cinema.
Intrigued by this newfound connection, you delve deeper into the features of Letterboxd. You discover that for just $19 a year, less than the cost of a monthly movie night, you can upgrade to a Letterboxd Pro and unlock a whole new level of cinematic exploration. With Pro, you'll be living the ad free life with personalized stats pages that showcase your growing expertise. You can filter by your favorite streaming services and get alerts when your films on your watch list arrive as if you're slowly piecing together the puzzle of your cinematic identity. And if you really want to immerse yourself in the world of film, you can become a Letterboxd patron for $49 year.
You'll be surrounding yourself with the most exclusive features and perks, connecting with fellow film enthusiasts on a deeper level. Excited by these possibilities, you navigate to the Letterboxd website, eager to sign up for a patron account. As you begin the process, you notice something about a 20% discount for listeners of the next real podcast. The name immediately sparks a sense of familiarity. You might not remember much, but you know for certain that this is your favorite podcast for weekly movie conversations.
You continue to fill out the registration form, entering your email address, and creating a new password. But as you click to complete the process, something unexpected happens. Instead of a confirmation page for a new account, you're greeted with a message welcoming you back to Letterboxd. Suddenly, it all comes rushing back to you. You're not a new member at all.
You've been a Letterboxd patron for years with a deep love for cinema that has always been part of who you are. A smile spreads across your face as you realize that even with your memory loss, your passion for film has remained constant. And now with the added bonus of the 20% renewal discount, you can continue your cinematic journey without breaking the bank. In this moment, you understand that while you may never fully remember the details of your past, you've rediscovered something just as valuable, your love for cinema and the connections it brings. Through Letterboxd, you can continue to explore the world of film, share your thoughts and experiences with others, and build a new identity around the art form that speaks to your soul.
So embrace this opportunity like you're embracing your rediscovered passion. Renew your Letterboxd pro or patron membership and immerse yourself once again in a world of exclusive features and insider benefits. And with that generous discount from thenextreal.com/letterbox, you're unlocking the best kind of plot twist, one that leads to a future filled with the joy and connection that only cinema can bring. It's time to make it official and reclaim your place among the letterbox delete. Because even if the memories of your past remain scattered, your love for film will always be the constant that guides you forward.
Pete Wright: Award season, Andy. How'd it do? Did it just rake in the telenovela awards?
Andy Nelson: Boy, it feels like it should have. That's that's certainly his place for it. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some telenovelas actually ripped the plot off of this and used it.
Pete Wright: Sure of
Andy Nelson: this actually had won a nomination at the Deauville Film Festival. Wolfgang Petersen was nominated with the Critics Award, but he lost to Gus Van Sant for My Own Private Idaho. Sadly, that was it, but it still is a fun film to watch.
Pete Wright: Gus Van Sant. I like to say that I've seen him around in in Portland. I haven't.
Andy Nelson: You haven't.
Pete Wright: You just said it. I like to believe that we've been at the same, like, grocery store. I'll bet he's a New Seasons guy. I bet he shops at New Seasons. My Oregon people will know what I mean.
Andy Nelson: They'll know. They'll know. So are the people from Wolfman. Hey. You're exactly right,
Pete Wright: except for New Zealand. Don't get me started.
Andy Nelson: Okay.
Pete Wright: Royno. Have you listened to the show yet? I coined a new thing. Yeah. Did.
Andy Nelson: I know you should put you need to put that in the glossary.
Pete Wright: You totally do. Okay. How to do at the box office? You this is a big day for you. You get actually a job in this segment once again.
Andy Nelson: Right. I know. It's exciting to go back to Hollywood films in the era when the data's available. So Yeah. Yeah.
For Peterson's film, he had a budget of 22,000,000 or 51,260,000.00 in today's dollars. The movie opened 10/11/1991 opposite Frankie and Johnny, Ernest Scared Stupid, and the limited release of The Taking of Beverly Hills and Little Man Tate. It started off in sixth place and dropped pretty quickly from there, unfortunately, only staying in theaters for about a month. The movie went on to earn 11,500,000.0 or 26,800,000.0 in today's dollars, landing with an adjusted loss per finished minute of almost $250,000. Not a box office winner for Peterson, but he was able to prove his worth with his next film in the line of fire.
Pete Wright: Wow. That's that's too bad.
Andy Nelson: I know.
Pete Wright: I I can get it. I mean, I understand that the movie probably didn't age well on blockbuster shelves.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. You know, it's one of those films. I think it's you you again, you gotta kind of go along with the twist and and just the vibe of the film. And if you can do that, I think you're fine. But, you know, in in the stretch of his films that he did, like Das Boat, Never Ending Story, Enemy Mine, Shattered in the Line of Fire, Outbreak, Air Force one, Perfect Storm, I mean, know, he's making fun films.
Yeah. For sure.
Pete Wright: Did you, did you see Frankie and Johnny? Is that one that you, you know about?
Andy Nelson: I've never never seen it. I know the film. I just had never watched that one.
Pete Wright: It was it was based on a play. I worked on this play in community theater in Oh. Before I left Collider Springs, and Frankie and Johnny in the Clear Daloon. It's a great little story, and I actually think the adaptation was was really, really good. Michelle Pfeiffer and I'm reloaded.
What's his name? Pachino. Scarface. Pachino.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. It was a fun film. I'm glad we talked about it. And, you know, it's it is one that I would have fun returning to. So alright.
We'll be back for our ratings. But first, here's the trailer for next week's movie, William Castle's nineteen sixty four film, The Straightjacket, starring Joan Crawford.
Trailer: When I put those clothes on, something happens to me. Something frightened.
Trailer: From the loneliness and simplicity of an isolated farm to the sophisticated elegance of a country estate, straight jacket mounts to a crescendo of electrifying suspense. Sinister, frightening. Bill.
Trailer: Bill. Don't you go that wrong.
Trailer: Joan Crawford in a shattering screen portrayal. A frantic woman pressured by straight jacket tension.
Trailer: Leave me alone. You let go of me. Listen to me. Just call me Lucy. I wouldn't like my little girl to think I was trying to take her fell away from her.
Carol and Michael are going to be married, and nobody's gonna stop it.
Trailer: Ingeniously designed to shock and startle, Straight Jacket may go beyond the limits of your ability to endure suspense.
Trailer: Mother. He's gone. Tell me. Oh my god.
Trailer: The author of the famed novel Psycho, the director of the widely acclaimed chiller Homicidal, the co star of Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, join forces to create a frightening classic of shock and suspense.
Pete Wright: Hey, you. Yeah. You. Lean closer. Do you ever feel like your life is a puzzle?
Like, maybe even that you're the puzzle and some pieces are missing? Like, you wake up one morning and you're wearing someone else's underpants, and your wife is way too interested in your DoorDash history, and your business partner keeps nervously adjusting his page boy cap, but you can't remember why. The point is life is full of twists, betrayals, and sometimes really bad plastic surgery. But there's one thing that you can rely on, the NextReal's family of film podcasts. We'll help you piece together the mysteries of cinema one film at a time, become a supporting member, and unlock the world of bonus content, early access, and the sweet, sweet satisfaction of knowing you're not alone in this crazy mixed up world.
And you don't just get those sweet bonuses from the show you're listening to right now. No way, chump. In addition to the next reel, you get CinemaScope, the film board, movies we like, and sitting in the dark. We've even got a Discord server because sometimes you just need to talk to someone who understands the sheer implausibility of a bad face day. Trust me.
You don't wanna miss this. Jump on over to truestory.fm/join and sign up today. And slow down around those curves. Alright? It's time, Andy Letterbox, to letterbox.com/thenextreel.
That's where you can find our HQ page. Go over there. Follow us. And what are you gonna do for your rating for this movie?
Andy Nelson: This is a lot of fun. This is that zone of three, three and a half star rated movies that I just have a lot of fun with, and it's it'd be an easy one to watch. It's not necessarily a perfect film, but it's it's gotta be an easy rewatch. This is three and a half for me and a heart. I had a lot of fun.
I enjoyed it quite a bit.
Pete Wright: If I did half stars, I would give it a a three and a half. I don't. It's a three and a heart, but I mean it as much as a three and a half. That's right. I can say that.
Andy Nelson: Is that how that works? It's a three that feels a little bigger.
Pete Wright: Yeah. I don't need to say three and a half because it rounds up.
Andy Nelson: Oh, that's true. That will average to 3.25 over on our litter boxed account. That will round up to three and a half and a heart. So that's where we're sitting. It's a good spot for this one.
Pretty good spot kicking off this series at three and a half and a heart. You remember, you can find me over there at Soda Creek Film, and you can find Pete there at Pete Wright. So what did you think about Shattered? We would love to hear your thoughts. Hop into the Show Talk channel over in our Discord community, where we will be talking about the movie this week.
Pete Wright: When the movie ends
Andy Nelson: Our conversation begins.
Pete Wright: Letterbox giveth, Andrew. Does Letterboxd always doeth? So we just went with the popular kids this time.
Andy Nelson: Yes. Yes. We did.
Pete Wright: Because they're clever. I'm so I I have a two and a half star with a heart from Christian DeLeo, and here's the I'll tell you the novelty in a minute. Christian says, a silly convoluted and erotic amnesia thriller from the golden age of the genre, the early nineties. Cars fly off cliffs with hilarious results. Legend of the screen, Bob Hoskins steals the show as a pet store owner, private investigator, and there are no shortage of lies, deception, mystery, and betrayal.
There are also a ton of sick shots of glass shattering all throughout, so I would have to guess that this is one of stone cold Steve Austin's favorite movies because once you hear the glass, it's your ass. And then Christian tells the whole story of the movie in emoji. So I'm not gonna do it right now, but you should know that you should click on that review from Christian DeLeo and look at it because it is the whole movie in emoji, and it's great.
Andy Nelson: It's fantastic. Well, I've got a three star in a heart by DNA cinephile who has this to say. The scene with Greta Scotti and Tom Berenger making love while knights in white satin played while they were transposed onto the Pacific Ocean in a wave tunnel was our favorite part of shattered. And we didn't talk about that clearly enough. No.
It's an entertaining nineteen nineties stylized psychosexual drama that is worth your time if you appreciate the genre. Absolutely.
Pete Wright: I think I think what's so funny this may be just that I watched it and was transported into something like the Zuckers would have done. Like, this was a naked gun sequence where they're making and the water and then I think in the movie, the first time we get the water overlay, they come up and they've just they're just dry and have had sex, and it was all that's what it is. But at the end, don't they do it again and they come out wet? Doesn't it they're drenched?
Andy Nelson: Probably. Yeah.
Pete Wright: I love that so much. Alright. Thanks, Letterboxd.