[00:00:00] Antony W: Welcome to the Grow My Salon Business podcast, where we focus on the business side of hairdressing. I'm your host, Antony Whitaker, and I'll be talking to thought leaders in the hairdressing industry, discussing insightful, provocative, and inspiring ideas that matter. So get ready to learn, get ready to be challenged, get ready to be inspired, and most importantly, get ready to grow your salon business.

[00:00:28] Antony W.: Hey, it's Antony Whitaker here, and welcome to today's episode of the Grow My Salon Business podcast. As usual, it's great to have you join us here today. This is the third in a series of episodes where I'm talking to hairstylists who are incredibly productive behind the chair. And when I say productive, these are people who produce multiple six figures a year behind the chair, and I want to find out what it takes to do that. The very first person that I spoke to on the podcast who was doing over half a million a year by herself was Jyl Craven, way back in episode 17 of the podcast. And if you haven't listened to that, I encourage you to do so and I will put the link in today's show notes. Then more recently, an episode 183, I spoke to a lady by the name of Denise Deering from the Jute Salons in Palo Alto, and my guest on today's podcast is Brandon Darragh from the Van Michael Salons in Atlanta, and Brandon is also one of those extremely productive hair stylists. He produces in excess of $375,000 a year behind the chair. But he does it in a four day week. Now for context, 375,000 US dollars is 300,000 pounds in great British pounds, or 345,000 Euro or Australian currency. That's 560,000 Aussie dollars and Canadian 683,000. So these are big numbers. Now I'm going to take a guess here and say that the average American hairstylist generates between 80 and a hundred K a year behind the chair in total sales.

[00:02:15] Antony W.: And I'm probably being optimistic with those numbers. So when you meet someone doing three to five times that, then they are obviously doing something very special. So in today's podcast, we will discuss what the key is to doing extraordinary numbers behind the chair. How long does it take to build up a column of how to avoid burnout and finding balance and lots more. So without further ado, welcome to the show, Brandon Darragh.

[00:02:46] Brandon D.: Hey there. How are you?

[00:02:48] Antony W.: Very good, very good. Thank you very much for, making time to talk to us, Brandon. I really appreciate you doing that. Obviously you're a busy man, so, it's great to have you, you know, share your wisdom with our audience today so.

[00:03:01] Brandon D.: appreciate you having me.

[00:03:03] Antony W.: No, not at all. Uh, Brandon, I'm going to start off, uh, by asking you a question that I pretty much ask everybody, and that's sort of to get them to introduce himself so you know, who is Brandon Darragh. Give us your sort of two - minute backstory and, then we'll jump into the detail.
 
[00:03:20] Brandon D.: Okay. I work for Van Michael Salons in Atlanta, Georgia. We are one of the largest salon groups in the United States. We have about 450 employees. We have, eight salon locations. one of them is male focused. It's not specifically male. It's not a hundred percent a barbershop, but it's close to one and we take everybody in there. Anybody that wants a short haircut, they're ready to roll. it's a really exciting place to work The Van Michael Salon Buckhead that I work in has probably a hundred to 125 employees at any given moment. We service about four to 500 clients a day in that building. And the energy is just mind blowing. I've been. Been there since I was a 19-year-old guy. I'm now 52 years old. I've worked for Van Michael Salon nearly 32 years. Van, the owner at the time, uh, that I started working there was a 19-year-old guy. He was North America's hairdresser of the year. He had just won it for his third time at that time, and he was just the most sought-after hairdresser in the southeast United States. And if I, if you were a young guy in beauty school like I was, you really wanted to work for that guy, you know, you really did. And, I'm going to say certain amount of luck, certain amount of you know, chutzpah put me in the right place. I made sure I showed up and put my face there it all worked out.

[00:04:44] Brandon D.: Thank goodness I became Van's assistant. So I was Van's personal assistant for about a year, behind the chair. He ran three chairs, about 35 clients a day, and I got to blow dry and shampoo every single one of those and watched the master work. And I learned a tremendous amount about service and how to take care of people. Even though he was doing such volume. I never saw the man lose a client. He was just a master at, you know, southern hospitality combined with talent. And those two things you really can't lose.

[00:05:20] Antony W.: Right. Okay. So, [00:05:22] Brandon D.: Yeah.
[00:05:23] Antony W.: Okay, so there's, there's going to be a lot, there's going to be a lot of gold here, there, there's a lot of gold in what you've just said already because, you know, if, if the general sort of theme of what I'm trying to do here is say, what does it take to be someone that's just productive? Well, you've just rattled off so many of the answers You started in the salon when you were 19 and I think you just said you were 52. So if we were, making a list here, then loyalty and not jumping about every five minutes is certainly going to be one of those ingredients, isn't it? So, congratulations on that. That's, that's fantastic.

[00:05:57] Brandon D.: I mean you know, I'm not telling everyone to stick out through every horrible situation, but, you know, maybe don't make a mountain out of a mole hill either. You know, sometimes people, uh, can get really worked up and, and walk away from what could be a budding relationship with a salon and a salon owner just because they've had a frustrating day. And sometimes you have to take life into context and realize that, you know, you're learning, you're growing and growing is sometimes painful and not always the most exciting thing. But when you look back, you really appreciate the tough times. And, those are the times that build those relationships with your salon owner, with your educators, and the people that are growing you as a human being, not only as a stylist.
 
[00:06:44] Antony W.: Yeah. Well, another thing that you, you said that I want to go back to and I, I want to talk about you, uh, as opposed to talking about Van. I've done a podcast with Van. It was fantastic and, uh, but you just said something that I don't think he said. And that was that I assisted Van and he ran three chairs and averaged 35 clients a day. Now, there's a lot of people listening to this. They don't do 35 clients a week. I mean, some of them don't do 35 clients a month. And so, you know, one of the, and another one of the ingredients is, guys, this is hard work. Yes, you can do the sort of numbers that you are talking about and that Denise does and that Jyl does, et cetera. But it's not easy. Is it? It's hard work. You've really got to, you know, step up to the plate.

[00:07:32] Brandon D.: I think so. I think that, you know, the times are changing. I think in 1992 when I was with him, that was the model. That's what was happening in the industry. And I think right now I'm trying to change that narrative. I now work, uh, I only try and manage 10, to 13 at the max per day. Um, I'm, I do 45 minutes per appointment. I think I'm about to grow to an hour per appointment. I’m all about giving quality and charging a lot more for it these days, creating a really exclusive experience and a masterful experience. But I've determined by watching others before me that there's a, a rough road ahead if you keep doing 30 clients a day, if you keep trying to kill yourself at the end of each day. And I think that, you know, our industry, our clientele is actually changing as well. And I think that they're looking for an experience not to be rushed through the salon that maybe they accepted in the eighties and nineties, uh, when the hairdresser was the superstar, and now I think the client is the superstar.

[00:08:38] Antony W.: Yep. Okay. Good insights. And, and now, you know, as you, as you've just said, you're doing 10 to, I forget what you said, 10 to 12 a day. You know, you are fully bought doing 10. You know, if you are fully bought, doing 12, 13 clients and you're charging big money, how much do you charge for a haircut?

[00:08:57] Brandon D.: 195.

[00:08:58] Antony W.: 195 mean, that’s a big chunk of money. And people are, you know, they have expectations of a certain level of, service, et cetera. So, you do the Math’s on that, you know, 13 clients at 195. Uh, that's some serious money. And if you want to be in this game, uh, long term, you've got to be able to, to deliver and, and to back that up with the service and the skill level and happy clients walking out the door so that they are rebooking. So I said at the beginning that you're doing this big number 375,000 a year. Is that your best year ever?

[00:09:35] Brandon D.: It is, yes over the years, of course my prices have gone up, so that makes it a little bit easier. But I also have made the choice to only work four days a week. I believe that I can do a lot more than that. If I jump back to five days a week and I have a daughter that's getting married, maybe I will go back to five days a week soon we'll see.
 
[00:09:54] Antony W.: Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, you know, that is an interesting thing about this is because, you know, 20 years ago maybe you wouldn't have done a four- day week, but as you just said people today.

[00:10:05] Brandon D.: Worked six back then.

[00:10:07] Antony W.: You've worked six back then. Okay. So now you, now you're working a four-day week, you're doing less clients, you're charging, you know, big money. which is fantastic. And what was the, like, what was the catalyst for you to go from a five-day week to a four-day week? Was it something that happened recently, like post covid, or is it something that you were already, you know, doing before that?

[00:10:28] Brandon D.: Pre-Covid. I had two children; I have four total. 22, 21, 7 and five. That second group of children, uh, changed a little bit of perspective at the same time. Then following, we did have Covid and there was a little bit of a perspective shift, and for me it was about deciding what I wanted for my life. I didn't want to stand behind a chair forever and be burned out at 65 trying to do 30 clients a day, you know? So I decided consciously that I would have to plateau my income for a couple of years, not to go backwards. I was able to engineer it to where if you go up in price, a minimum of $10. Each time you go up in price, then you can offset any business you may lose. And then pretty soon you'll be charging enough to, you know, actually grow from that point. So it's only a two to three year plateau. If you decide to slow down your books, create a more quality experience, and then charge more for that experience, slowly the word of mouth from the quality experience that you're giving will grow so much. The price point becomes not to matter because people love the experience so much and I've gone up $25 in my last increase and no one said a word because I'm really booked out now that my timeframes are, you know, a little bit more unavailable per se, if I'm only doing 10 or 12 a day versus 15, 20, you know? So giving a better experience is where I'm headed these days, you know, and I feel like that's a great opportunity for me to grow the numbers exponentially by going up 20, $25 a pop.

[00:12:04] Antony W.: Can you remember what you charged when you first started?

[00:12:08] Brandon D.: I did, I worked for Van Michael Salon's new talent division, and it was $12 and 50 cents. And, I tried to do 14 to 15 a day minimum just to make a living, you know, to, to feed myself back then.

[00:12:24] Antony W.: Yeah. [00:12:24] Brandon D.: Know, for sure.
[00:12:26] Antony W.: That's great. From $12 50 to 195 and, uh, and growing. Okay. what's the, service to retail split on that? So 375 grand, how much of that would be Retail. 40,000 retail.
 
[00:12:40] Brandon D.: 40,000 retail and I do some extensions, but only four or five clients worth. It's not really my business, but I do have a little bit of that. I do some keratin straightening services, but 85 to 90% of my business is pure hair cutting.

[00:12:58] Antony W.: Right. Okay. Yeah. Specialist. Yeah. So the Van Michael salons are specialist salons, aren't they? You either cut or you color. Yeah.

[00:13:05] Brandon D.: Yes. Yes. We are departmentalized and gives us the opportunity to focus. Yeah.

[00:13:10] Antony W.: Yeah. Okay. And on those, on those four days a week that you work, what's your sort of start time, finish time.

[00:13:17] Brandon D.: So two days a week I try and be there early. I work Tuesday through Friday, Tuesday morning and Friday morning I'm there at 8:00 AM and uh, I work until about five. And then on Wednesday and Thursday I come in at about, uh, 10:00 AM in the morning and work until about seven 30. And, um, you know, I. Just, I work a, a lunch in the middle of each day. I've decided after being 50 years old, I would actually work a lunch and, you know, some of the previous, uh, hairdressers I've listened to on the podcast and, I hear them working 8:00 AM to 9:10 PM and nobody taking a lunch. And, you know, that used to be me and I was definitely that guy. And, and I think that our industry has taught us to do that. But I also have watched a lot of hairdressers, you know, kind of fall off the back end after they're 50, 55 years old physically. And I've decided to change that narrative. I work out a lot. I eat well, I make sure I take a lunch and I work very specific hours. And, um, you know, in the mornings on Wednesday and Thursday are my squeeze in days. I can take somebody late on a Tuesday evening as well. So I have three slots that I save for anybody that needs to be squeezed or accommodated, cause we all know that happens. Certainly. So, you know, you want to say yes, but at the same time you want to be exclusive. So, you know, I keep to my hours in general and then, you know, I have those three spots and that's about as many as I need per week, right?

[00:14:39] Brandon D.: You know, two or three people might need it. So I'm saying yes to those that ask. And then everybody else, they just look at the schedule and go, gosh, I better get in, or I better pre-book when I'm there. And, uh, the further out on books, the more I can raise my price next year.

[00:14:54] Antony W.: exactly. Do, do you work with, um, a dedicated assistant or assistance

[00:14:59] Brandon D.: I do. I used to be the director of training for Van Michael Salons. Uh, Jeffrey Goldstein now has that, uh, title, and that's something that Van still wants me involved with. I help Jeffrey, if he asks me, I show up and teach. And so I have an assistant. They want me training as well. She shampoos for me and she rebook for me. She does a hand massage during the haircut, uh, to give a little luxury to the service. I do all my haircuts and blow dries. I'm kind of control oriented when it comes to the blow dries, probably.
 
[00:15:30] Antony W.: yeah. Okay. And you know, a lot of people are listening to this, like they, they'll be listening or watching on YouTube and they'll be thinking, I wonder why he's never opened his own salon. Now, you know, you started with Van as a 19 year old. Obviously you would've thought that at different times in your life. I'm going to suggest, I may not be obvious saying that. uh, maybe other people have suggested it to you. And one of the things I often think is a shame in this industry, Is there's a lot of people think it's the automatic next step that everyone should eventually go and open their own salon. So I'm really curious as to what your thoughts are around that.

[00:16:09] Brandon D.: Wow. I think that that's such a trend in today's world. We do so many interviews and they start out immediately with, I'm an entrepreneur. You know, and everyone's an entrepreneur these days and I have to break it to 'em. A lot of them aren't, you know, they're probably great artists and I know myself, and I think knowing your strengths is probably one of the greatest things you could do for yourself is evaluate yourself. I don't believe that, you know, running a business is my strength. I like running the business behind my chair because it allows me that human connection one-on-one. My strengths are being with people. My strengths are understanding technical haircut. My strengths are communicating about those skills. You know, I can stand there all day and talk about hair, talk about hair products, you know, but I don't really want to have someone call my phone at 3:00 AM if someone threw a brick through the window, you know, I don't want to deal with the IRS, the accountants, the, you know, I don't really.

[00:17:05] Brandon D.: Want to do that. And I never have had an interest. And so I've driven myself to be an excellent teacher, an educator within this realm of hair. And I'm so grateful to work for an organization that wants to take all of those other aspects of our industry. And they're great, and they're so important. You know, if you're going to have a operating salon, you have to have a structure. And I'm really glad that we have wonderful people in place, that that's their talent. And I'm so glad that they're all associated with this one big company We work for Van Michael Salon, you know, so I take my role very seriously and I'm excited about that role, but at the end of the day, I get to hang up my hat, go home and hang out with my family, play with my children, and nobody really bothers me or calls me unless, you know, I have a specific meeting about something and I have that freedom of choice to go enjoy my family. That's one of the most beautiful things about our industry, actually. You know? And if you want to be an entrepreneur, a salon owner, certainly your choice. And then I kind of joke on the other half, and this is just sort of snarky a little bit, but you know, hairdressers sometimes are the wildest, craziest employees ever. I'm not sure I want to go put a loan out for a million or $2 in my name and then have those guys help me pay it back, you know?

[00:18:18] Antony W.: Yeah, it's interesting hearing you talk. Cause on one hand it's about understanding you and what motivates you or, or you know, what you want to or don't want to do in your life and the different responsibilities and, and recognizing that, you know what I mean? But then on the other hand, it's one of the things that I find myself talking about to salon owners a lot at the moment. Because no matter where you talk to people in the world of hairdressing, recruitment's an issue these days. And.
 
[00:18:46] Brandon D.: Oh yeah.

[00:18:47] Antony W.: And the conversation often comes round to. And you can see where I'm going with this, hopefully in a minute. The conversation often comes around to, you have to make your business so damn good that people don't want to leave you. And so obviously that's sort of what Van has done with the Van Michael Salons is, you know, I know there's people that come and go from Van Michael, like any organization, but you know, there's a lot of people like yourself that are incredibly loyal and looked after, and as you've said, that they're working in an environment where they can be the best version of themselves. So talk to us about that from that perspective of us being a salon owner. I know you are not the salon owner, but if you are talking to the salon owner listening to this, what do they need to do so that they encourage. Staff retention cause if you keep staff, you keep clients. if you lose staff, you lose clients. So, you know, what are some of the things that you can do to, you know, to keep good people?

[00:19:53] Brandon D.: Sure. Van has always used the phrase, he wants to create an oasis for stylists to grow and learn, you know, and I, I bought into that when I was a kid. Right. And it's true. And, and the way he's done it is a encouraging you, obviously we all do that and I'm sure of salon owners you're going to do that. Um, but it's also accepting that, you know, people make mistakes, you know, and, and he's very good at sitting down with the people that makes mistakes and coaching them and not yelling at them or, you know, freaking out in any negative way. Yeah, so when Van's working with somebody as a salon owner, you know, the one thing I know is that he listens tremendously. He's a great listener and he encourages each one of us to educate ourselves. He has offered, uh, paying half for any education. So, you know, I went to Sassoon’s in London multiple times, you know, on his dime with the agreement I would come back and be a trainer and, you know, that was something he identified that maybe I wanted to do and I had the talent for. And so that's something maybe I encourage every salon owner to do is identify that top talent and invest in that top talent and let that top talent spread the love to the rest of the staff as well.

[00:21:06] Brandon D.: And that's sort of how he's managed everyone for a long time, is he builds this pyramid of love and trust and the pyramid just keeps growing bigger and bigger because he encourages us to take our people to dinner, sit down with them at breakfast, you know, encourage them in the culture of the business. Not just how to make money, but you know how to grow each other. And I think that that's really the secret of Van Michael Salons is that it's a family, you know, of 450 employees and I'm pretty sure we have over 150 that have been there 20 years or more now. And that growth, uh, and longevity and loyalty is purely loyalty is because we're all happy. We make money. We kind of grew up together as a family and I think that the opportunities given to us there were just tremendous. And it's hard to put a finger on exactly why his formula is so great. But, you know, I think staff, love is a huge way to put it.

[00:22:05] Antony W.: Okay.

[00:22:06] Brandon D.: Know, there is structure there though. There is definitely structure.
 
[00:22:09] Antony W.: Yeah. Is it, is there, I mean, I, I think I know the answer. Are there other people in the organization that do this sort of weekly sales that you, do you, you're not a unicorn.

[00:22:21] Brandon D.: Definitely not a unicorn. I am fighting all the time to stay relevant in the top five. You know, right now I'm still the number one cutter the color team has blown me by. We had a girl do 450,000 in color last year, uh, Maxwell, and she is our top producer of last year, and she's phenomenal. Uh, and she doesn't ever sleep. I don't think so.

[00:22:46] Antony W.: Right,

[00:22:47] Brandon D.: She, she's nonstop working.

[00:22:50] Antony W.: So you need to lift your game, basically.

[00:22:53] Brandon D.: Yeah, exactly. It's unbelievable. But, you know, it's a choice for me. I've chosen to work. If I wanted to work five days, I think I could catch her. But, you know, I, I have the children. I'm a soccer coach a couple days a week. And that, you know, really means a lot to me at this stage in my life after 30 years of doing hair, that I can coach my children's soccer team and still be a top producer. I think that's a wonderful, you know, balance in my life.

[00:23:16] Antony W.: Yeah, definitely, definitely. It's so important, isn't it? I mean, when you talk about that balance, you know, issue around balance, and this was happening pre-Covid, but it was interesting how. You know, it, it just sort of got amplified after Covid because a lot of people had time to sit around and reflect about their life and what was important to them and, you know, family and health and fitness and coaching the football team and all that sort of stuff. So, what I want to ask you is, cause you've alluded to how you do staff training, et cetera. What do you notice as someone who's, been dealing with young people like we do in our industry and your training and coaching and mentoring young people, what do you find the differences are today? What do you, what, what do you need to do today to get the best out of people? Because Yeah, they want different things. They have a different work ethic. They have different values. When I say they have a different work ethic, I don't for one minute mean they don't want to work cause they do want to work, but they just have a different slant on life and you sort of have. What's the word? You, you've sort of latched on to a lot of their way of thinking. So, you know, talk to me about what is that difference that you see with young people today and how do you get the best out of them? In the salon.

[00:24:36] Brandon D.: I think it's interesting you picked up on that because I have morphed, I started as an early part in my career where it was six days a week. It was nonstop. It was 12 hours a day. How many clients can I get in? You know, that was a certain thing. But I did experience moments of burnout and frustration, at times in my career. And, you know, I didn't know that it was sustainable. And I'm trying to learn lessons by looking at those who have walked the path before me and look at their health in the long run. And, um, you know, but say society in general is probably getting
 
a little bit healthier, I think in today's world. You know, nobody walked around with a bottle of water in 1975. You know, now everyone has water. Right? You know,

[00:25:19] Antony W.: I've never thought of it like that, but you did, right? Yeah.

[00:25:22] Brandon D.: It's a hundred percent true. You just didn’t, it was a soda, you know, it was something of that nature carbonated with a lot of sugar, you know, in the United States it was tab Coca-Cola, you know, something of that nature. So, you know, society as a whole is healthier and these young folks, I don't know that they have everything right. You know, because I certainly look at certain aspects. Maybe they need to chill a little bit, not make a mountain out of every single issue. sometimes just let it go and see what happens. but I think that the approach from education and getting the best out of each young person has changed. What it used to be 30 years ago was, cut that haircut. I'm sorry. It’s wrong. Do it again. It's wrong. Do it again. It's wrong. Do it again. And we did that 40, 50 times. I'm sure there was crying in the parking lot. You know, there was a, a lot of, questioning of oneself after, and then somehow you got it and it made you stronger. And that was sort of our approach, I think, in our time. You know, and then now young kids don't really accept that approach. They, you know, end up often going to supervisors or social media and calling, you mean. Um, you know, instead of accepting the feedback for it's wrong, I need to focus on it. You know, it's different.

[00:26:38] Brandon D.: So now we've had to change our approach to really be much more sensitive. I'm still saying the same thing. I'm saying the information is incorrect. What I need you to do is reevaluate this differently. What I need you to look at is, let's take this picture into consideration and what's missing in the image that you've created here. You know? So I think as the educator, you have to be more thoughtful. You have to step outside your box that you were taught and trained 30 years ago. We can't turn around and teach the way we were taught. And that's just not going to fly in today's industry. It's just not going to work. And if you want these young kids to work with you, you have to open up your vocabulary. You have to open up your heart, you have to listen to them more, look at them more as human beings, and then coach them into the hair industry a little more gentle. And that's just society today. And I'm okay with that. It's okay for me because some of the things I've learned while opening my heart is also, maybe they have it right about a little bit more time off, and maybe they have it right about traveling and experiences. And I think that finding that balance has allowed me to take a lunch every day and to work a four day work week and to still make a great income. And like I said, I chose to plateau my income for about a three year period. And I can't wait to see I, I'm looking for $300 a haircut, $400 a haircut.

[00:27:58] Brandon D.: And in my market in Atlanta. That’s, that's pretty high. We're not New York. We're not LA you know, so Atlanta 200 is definitely pushing it for where we're at right now. So I think that this plan though, of extreme service, extreme experience is going to demand a price that really won't matter to the consumer as long as they continue to get that experience. And I think that, you know, we're growing our young people to do that now instead of what we used to. There's a young lady named Mariah who, is uh, one of our top stylists. Our top cutters has only been with us, I think, uh, close to seven to 10 years. And she's $150 a haircut, I believe. And she'll be right
 
behind me, and she won't take 30 years to get there, you know, and she's done everything by booking everything on the hour from day one.

[00:28:49] Brandon D.: And she's only done eight to 10 clients a day. And she's just,
I. Really talented and really booked, and she charges a lot for it. And she goes up 10 and 15 and $20 a year. And I'm watching her growth. And to me, if I was a young person in the industry, I wish I had done it that way. I'd be a lot less burnout. She takes a vacation every month somewhere with her boyfriend and, he also works for us and travels and works. And he's a YouTuber as well as a hairdresser. And, they've got a unique way and I've learned a lot from them.

[00:29:19] Antony W.: No, that sounds very interesting. How, does it, like if, if I'm a young 25 year old hairdresser working in your salon and I see you working a four day week and I see you driving a nice car and, you know, uh, I can see you're generating a lot of revenue and therefore you're being paid well for it. And then I'm a 25 year old and I'm thinking, well, I only want to do a four day week as well, which is cool. I'm happy with that. But sometimes, It didn't happen to you overnight, as you've just said, it took you 30 years to get to there. how do you find reconciling that to people that, yeah, you can, you can do a four day week if that's what you want to do. Hey, you can do a three day week if that's what you want to do, but there's a hit you take in terms of revenue you can produce and therefore what your own personal earnings and therefore lifestyle are going to be. Talk, talk to us about how you see that playing out in the salon.

[00:30:17] Brandon D.: So, you know, van was very strict. Everyone had to work five days. In the beginning you only, you had to work Sundays and New talents. In the last few years we've changed everything. We've told the stylist, you can choose in general what you want to work. He said a minimum number that you know each chair has to produce and that's, your choice and how many days you want to do that in. Uh, he has opened the floodgates for a new way of thinking and it has really not changed our bottom line $1. If anything, we've gone up and it's the perception of freedom for these young people that, they realize they have bills to pay. They have real, they realize that they have a certain minimum need and they're pretty good at budgeting for themselves and figuring it out. And you can sit down and talk to them and say, well, here's what you can expect in income if you do these number of hours, these number of days. And they go, gosh, I better work a little more than that. But I find if you set the, the rules upon them in the beginning, then they rebel against it. Like, I don't want this, or I don't want, it's too corporate, or I don't want to be told this. I find that, you know, we've opened that floodgate and changed the business completely and it's kind of gone against the grain of what we've done for about 25, 30 years. And it's not been a bad change at all. And the young generation has really warmed up to it a lot. And as I said, this young lady, Mariah and her boyfriend Ruskin, are shining examples that it works. She's gone up to $150 and 8, 8, 9 years starting from like 40 or $50 a haircut, you know? And she's really, she's grown tremendously and she's going to keep going. and he's doing the same,

[00:31:57] Antony W.: That's, that's really interesting what you, what you said about the perception of freedom. That they realize they've still got bills to pay and the lifestyle they want to lead. So they, if they only want to work two or three days, they're only
 
going to earn this much. If I want to earn that lifestyle or have that lifestyle, then I need to earn more money. Therefore, I need to produce more money. So I need to work more time, but they're free to make that choice themself. So that's a, a very interesting way to look at it. Yeah.

[00:32:25] Brandon D.: Yeah. This all came about because of our recruiting.

[00:32:28] Antony W.: Yeah. And, and what that being challenging because I know you used to have a queue of people outside the door all the time, and so like everybody, you're saying that that queue started to dry up and that you needed

[00:32:40] Brandon D.: A little bit. [00:32:40] Antony W.: What the offer was?
[00:32:42] Brandon D.: Exactly the offer needed to change to entice the new generation, especially post covid. I think that a lot of people were looking for as much freedom as possible and you know, you see that's just the way the society has kind of glamorized the van life and, you know, everything else having a lot of freedom and traveling. They prioritize experiences in their world. So, van just decided Hey, well you want to work for us and have those experiences. Go for it. Set your schedule the way you want to. And, you know, it's worked. It, it's been shocking. We were all sort of nervous that, they would only want to work two days a week and not make any money at all.

[00:33:16] Brandon D.: And that's not been the case at all. It's not been the case at all. They, they book themselves. They need to make money too.

[00:33:21] Antony W.: Yeah. Yeah, [00:33:22] Brandon D.: Great.
[00:33:23] Antony W.: Yeah. Do you think, I mean, you know, I'm older than you, but it, when you say, oh, I've been working there since I was 19 and now I'm 52, that doesn't make me sort of fall off my chair. It's like, oh yeah. Great. That's good. You know, you're a loyal servant to the business, so to speak. You know, you're stable. Do you think that people today do, do you think the 20-year-old version of Brandon today working in the salon is going to do that or not?

[00:33:51] Brandon D.: I am really curious. We'll see. Um, if I had to bet money, uh, if I was forced to bet money on it right now, that would be interesting. I think. I'd probably say no. I think that you're looking, at shorter term, um, 10 years maybe, you know, they'll get their growth a lot of life seems to move on, but, you know, hey, if you have somebody 10 years, that's a really good term, isn't it? You know, for most businesses, I, I think we're looking at society changing and I think that 20 and 30, 40 or 10 years are, just probably things of the past, maybe rare items. I mean, they're even rare now, Really.
 
[00:34:28] Antony W.: Yeah. Yeah. They're, they are. Yeah. Yeah,

[00:34:30] Brandon D.: Right. You know, so I think that, we're seeing that trend just dwindle slowly.

[00:34:35] Antony W.: But how much of your, your productivity. Is based on the fact that I've been solid and I haven't jumped around a lot.

[00:34:44] Antony W.: I mean, you talk to, you know, sometimes when I'm doing seminars or whatever, I'll, I'll say, you know, put your hands up. Uh, if you've only ever worked the one salon, you know, a couple of hands will go up. Two salons more, more hands up three, four or five, six. You know, you get, people put their hands out there. They've, they've worked in 7, 8, 9 different salons. And, I usually laugh to myself like, you know, so you are stable, are you? So, you know, I'm going to implore you, aren't I? I don’t know where I'm going with that. it's just an interesting observation, you know, it's like, it's like getting to the, to the nub of what is it that makes you as productive is what you are, what are the sort of, 10 commandments, what are the 10 steps that people need to do if they want to become a solidly booked, very busy, well paid, productive stylist? What, what would you, I know it's not fair. I don't give anyone any warning on these questions. In fact, I'm not even giving self-warning on this question. I'm just making it up as I go. but what would you say the, the ingredients are?

[00:35:44] Brandon D.: Being reliable is probably the first word that comes to mind. Reliability, you know, and whether that's to my employer or whether that's to my client, which technically is my employer, right? My client is my employer, my guest, and my chair is my employer. So, you know, when. That person thinks of getting their hair done. They have an association mentally with Van Michael Salon and they have an association mentally with Brandon, Brandon Darragh, and quite often if someone says Van Michael Salon in the city of Atlanta, that association's going to pop up. Oh, this guy Brandon works there, he's been there 30 years. Whenever I walk in, he's pretty much the first guy I see right at the front door cause I'm in the first chair when everybody walks in the building, you know? So I, I'm the greeting committee to not only my clients, but tons of other clients that I've seen coming and out of the building. I recognize half the people that walk in there and they recognize me. So, you know, just that association alone has a lot to do with my own personal business. They associate me with the brand and not jumping around, you know, I mean, obviously you're going to lose 20, 30% of your people just moving location. I think it's just huge to stay where you're at. Absolutely huge to be known. And if it's a quality place, then you know, make the most of where you're at. Don't jump around cause that alone will, you know, grow your business. And after 30 years everybody knows where to find me. I've never moved one time, they know exactly where my business is. And that's a huge factor. It's just being reliable.

[00:37:17] Antony W.: Okay, so I'm not going to ask you to give me 10. That was completely unrealistic. But let's go with three. Let's go with your top three. So I've written down reliability, in any particular order, reliability to both the guests and the client. And, and when you were talking about that reliability thing, I, I still get people today comment to me about the podcast I did with Denise and, uh, and Denise has been working at Jut for 28 years. And the bit that sticks in everybody's mind is that
 
she's called in sick not once in 28 years. I mean, that is like reliability to the nth degree, you know, it's unbelievable.

[00:38:00] Brandon D.: I cannot say that.

[00:38:02] Antony W.: Well, that, that's very few people

[00:38:04] Brandon D.: Very reliable, but that's, that's crazy. Like, you know, unbelievable. We actually, she would be our Catherine Chan. We have a lady that's worked for us for 28 or 29 years and has never once called in sick. Um, the one day, one day that she was late to work, she was driving to work and she felt dizzy in her car. She stopped, pulled over on the side of the road and she called her husband so that he could finish driving her to work. Never mind worried about the dizziness or whether she was sick, but just to get her to work,

[00:38:36] Antony W.: Work. Yeah.

[00:38:37] Brandon D.: You know? So there's just a certain work ethic in certain people. They're just that way and it's mind blowing. And you know, that reliability is huge though, I have to say. That's really impressive. Really impressive. Um, for me, the other factor is quality, reliability, and quality. You know, at the bottom line, at the end of each day, the purpose of what we do is cut people's hair or color their hair or provide some form of service and, regardless of how nice we are or how shiny the front desk was and anything else around us. You know, the end of the day, that quality service has to be great. It has to be worth the money that was spent. And so they can go home and feel really wonderful about everything that happened within that service moment, but it still has to wear well for another six to eight weeks or three months, however long they're going to wear it before it gets touched again. So quality, so reliability, quality, those two are, you know, hand in hand.

[00:39:39] Brandon D.: To me. You know, being there for them no matter what and providing utmost quality of service. And then, Consistency, doing it over and over and over again. So, reliability, you're always going to be there. Consistency is that you don't waiver that your routine in life, you feed yourself the same way every morning. You get up and prepare before to work every day. And that routine is the same. You prepare by writing all your note cards on every single client and making sure that you know every detail about their haircut, their service, their whatever they're there for. Also, myself, I wrote notes on every single detail of their personal lives that I can possibly remember, and especially where they were going on trips or whether their son's graduating or, you know, anything like that.

[00:40:26] Brandon D.: So that consistently, they sit in my chair and I'm the doctor and I say two things. I go, Hey, last time we cut three inches off your hair, I want to know how that treat you. You know, because I, I wrote down that was a big deal. And two, I think you were going to your son's graduation. I hope that worked out really well. So in that, Five to 10 seconds of greeting them. I've already let them know that I'm prepared for the moment that they arrive. I've already done my homework. I remember every detail about what was going on, and they can sit down and relax and within that
 
10 seconds I've already greeted them and let them know that I'm on my game, that makes sense so.

[00:41:06] Antony W.: Yeah, no, it does. Totally, totally. they're brilliant points, brilliant points. And so on the sort of tail end of that, sorry, I've written notes down. I'm just, just looking at, on, on the tail end of that. If you are looking at young people today, like you and I weren't born into a world of social media. Um, the whole celebrity slash star thing wasn't really a thing. Do you know what I mean? It was, it was a different time. It was a, it was a different world. Um, so, so I suppose what I'm saying is, is that when you talk to a lot of young hairdressers today, they see the root to success as being, you've got to have, you know, fill in the blank, X thousand followers on social media you've got to be a celebrity hairdresser. You've got to have some celebrity clients, and or you need to be backstage, fashion week, you know, all this sort of stuff. And yet when I talk to someone like you, not that you couldn't do those things, uh, you know, in terms of your ability to do hair, but your focus is, is very different about what it takes to become a really solid, stable, dependable, great salon hairdresser.

[00:42:27] Antony W.: Because I, I think one of the things that happens a lot is that these days. I actually heard Gordon Miller talking about this on a podcast just recently, and he was saying something about how these days, there's so much talk about what else you can be other than a stylist. Like, you know, you can, you can be an editorial backstage hairdresser, you can be a celebrity hairdresser, you can be an educator, you can be, you know, develop your own line of products and yeah, you can do all those things. But he was sort of pointing out that, that like, actually people need to be reminded that the, you know, the boiler plate, the bass or whatever you want to call it, is be a damn fine salon hairdresser and you can earn a fantastic living and build great relationships. And, you know, it's a, it's, it's, it's a great thing to do and a great thing to be, I mean, it's not a question again, but what are your thoughts about that?

[00:43:20] Brandon D.: I agree a hundred percent. I think that it is an age, you know, I talked about it earlier. When we interview young people, they start out with, I'm an entrepreneur and there's a, a huge, you know, trend of, look at me, look at me because of, you know, social media we're raised, especially, you know, and I'm watching my own children, you know, uh, with a device in their hand at all times looking for affirmation from. People on the outside, and the only affirmation I need is the smile on that client's face right in front of me. You know, because that's really what I'm there for in that moment. I'm trying to live for the moment, and I've seen stylists who have video cameras propped up at their, stage and got the tripod up because they're trying to grow their social media, and what they're forgetting is that they're putting that client in, in a weird and awkward position, but now all of a sudden they're paying for you so you can grow your own social media. And that just seems a little weird to me, you know? And I guess some of the clients are into it because they're young and they want to be on a screen also.

[00:44:22] Brandon D.: But, you know, I, I find that, you know, to me it's about just focusing 100% on the person in front of you with social media. Like Mr. Miller said, yeah, there's a million jobs out there, but the job I'm doing is hairdressing. You know? And if you want to be a social media star, that's great. I think that it is important. I really do. You know, I want to learn from those that have walked the path before me.
 
Obviously, uh, a lot of people have fallen off on those social media. I'm not great at it. It's not something I've focused on. I'd like to do better. Uh, I should probably do more, but it's really hard to do it when I'm cutting someone's hair, you know, and making them do it. So I really should probably have the young lady that stands in shampoos with me. You know, maybe take some pictures and video. But again, I want her focused on that client and it feels to me like I'm imposing on the time they're paying for me when I try and build my social media using them, if That makes sense.

[00:45:18] Antony W.: Oh, totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. What, what, what change tact here? Um, what motivates you?

[00:45:25] Brandon D.: What motivates me? I, I'm competitive. I'm very competitive. I grew up doing multiple sports, uh, so that, you know, pushes me a little bit in the world of competitiveness. at Van Michael, we get to see each other's numbers. We have an app that, you know, we can see everyone's daily performance ranked. Uh, love seeing my number, you know, at the top three or four, up there. I want to know, I'm on the board. You know, call it the leaderboard. Uh, so I like seeing that. So that little bit of competition certainly drives me. I also, like I said, I have four kids. I have a family to feed. I have people that rely on me to make sure their life goes well. So that's a huge motivation, is making sure that goes well. Selfishly, uh, as a hairdresser, every 45 minutes to an hour, I get instant gratification from some individual that I've helped with their hair. And, you know, you get an ego stroke out of that. And I think we have these beautiful jobs where people tell us we're great all day and pay us for it at the same time. And, you know, hairdressers, we sort of like that, I think. And, that motivates me. I like making people happy and it's just awesome.

[00:46:29] Antony W.: Yeah. Good, good. There must be days where you're not motivated. There must be days where you wake up and you are like, oh God, do I really have to go to work? Or, or whatever it is. There's just stuff going on in your life. What do you say to yourself when, you know, cause you've got 10 people booked in you that day, they, they don't want to know that you're not feeling flat for whatever reason. What, do you say to yourself because you are, remember reliability. You, you are, you are reliable, you are consistent, you are quality. How do you go from feeling flat, unmotivated, whatever the words are, you want to associate with it to being able to walk in the door and turn it on and, and deal with whatever it is afterwards.

[00:47:13] Brandon D.: Routine is a huge part of that. I think that if you have a varied routine every single day, it's easy to wake up one day and go, I don't feel like it today. You know, if you have the exact same routine every day, your body sort of kicks in when your brain doesn't want to, occasionally you're in a fog when you're waking up and you know, but if you just, your body's on that routine, the alarm goes off, you're ready to go, the routine of it will get you moving. And I think that if you feed yourself well, I make a fresh smoothie every morning. I think that good nutrition is a huge factor in that, uh, making sure that you, you know, are ready to go mentally and physically. Mentally just talking to yourself, staring in the mirror and saying, you know, affirmations of, you've got this, you can do this, you're in charge of this today.

[00:47:59] Brandon D.: Those are the things that'll push you over the hump if you're not feeling it, you know that sometimes you need that push. And then, let's say that
 
we have things going in our lives, you know, maybe we're not perfect. Uh, myself, I've been through a divorce while being a hairdresser. Boy is that hard.

[00:48:16] Brandon D.: You know, I've seen friends of mine run away, entire clienteles, pouring out their soul to their clients. Um, let's all remember that they're paying us for our time and for their, uh, happiness. They want to feel good. They're not there to be depressed by your problems. So, you know, a lot of us hairdressers after the third time, they're like, they're my friend. No, they're not. They're not your friend, they're still paying you. And I think it's super important to remember that you can't unload your challenges on your people. And so if you are having a period in your life, which sometimes are longer than a day, longer than a week, longer than a month, you know, longer than three months stretch into a year, people can be depressed about a life event, like a divorce anything, a death in the family. And we still have to get on stage the next day and cut 10 people's hair. And that's really hard. So what I tell those people, and I sometimes speak on this, is in the morning, I want you to build your speech, whatever it's going to be. When people sit in your chair and you say, Hey, how are you today? And they say, great, how are you?

[00:49:21] Brandon D.: That's not your turn to unload your problems. What I want you to do is practice what you're going to say while you're driving to work. And I want you to practice. I'm awesome, this is what's going on in my life. And you can re, you know, synopsis. Let's be real. We do share certain things in our lives with our clients, so it's okay to be real with them. The divorce is still going on. It's not the greatest thing in my life, but it's okay. We're going to keep moving, you know, and the kids are great, and life is good. I'm so excited about soccer. I want you to find something to end with. I'm excited about, and I can't wait to look forward to this and this. Well, why don't we get started on your hair today? You’ve wrapped up your life. You've given them what you need. You let it out. You've let someone, you've cut 20 years who knows about your divorce, know what's going on, and then you got back to being a professional right away. And I think that's the key is that we are not robots. We are going to have these moments where we share and we, things say things we're, we're human beings and we build connections with people. That's what we do. The strongest professional keeps that to a very short minimum and then flips it back to the client as quickly as possible.

[00:50:29] Antony W.: Yeah, that's good. How do you, as someone who's still doing here, um, uh, you've been doing here for a long time, uh, you obviously enjoy doing it. How do you stay relevant? how do you reinvent yourself?

[00:50:44] Brandon D.: Staying relevant at Van Michael Salon is luckily very easy because of the influx of young people nonstop. we, you know, have constant input from, we have SCAD, uh, school of, art and Design in Atlanta. And it's fantastic. So we also have that, so we have the young people in our training program work with the young fashion artists, sometimes do collaborations. We get a lot of input of young people, young fashion. The internet of course is amazing. You know, back when we started, there was areas of the world that might have been ahead of other areas of the world, say London was quite often ahead of Atlanta for sure. I could go over there and find things, you know, that people in Atlanta hadn't seen yet. clothing, fashion. Now the internet equals the playing field pretty fast, right? So we all have input, we all have
 
access. So it's a, you know, I think everybody builds their library of input. I have multiple different fashion things that I follow on, uh, Instagram. Uh, I love hair brained, uh, Gerard's platform. I love Elevate hair. I. Um, you know, those guys have got good stuff. There's all kinds of different things you can find to your taste level, what you like, so that's great. But then also look around you make sure that, you know, when you were 19, you knew what was going on. If you're an old guy like myself at 52, don't just hold up in your own bubble. Look around, pay attention to what's happening, and remember the cool things that were going on because they're going to come back and they're going to be twisted and reinvented. So if you're paying attention, look for what's going on and remember where it was in your history. See where you can reinsert it into your future.

[00:52:24] Antony W.: Very good. My, my wife once said to me when I said what you've just said, uh, I'm an old guy. She said, I wish you'd stop saying you're old.

[00:52:34] Brandon D.: Yeah.

[00:52:35] Antony W.: She said, say you're experienced. So I'm very experienced. [00:52:39] Brandon D.: Yeah.
[00:52:40] Antony W.: And so, Brandon, you are very, you are very experienced. Take that all day long. And it's true. And it is true, isn't it? You know, the age is just a number. It's like, uh, uh, and with that number comes a phenomenal, uh, amount of experience and, and wisdom that, that you can, uh, pass on. So, uh, we're both, we're both very experienced. But in terms of that experience, what do you wish that you were better at?

[00:53:06] Brandon D.: Wow. that's always a good question. What do I wish I was better at? I wish I was better at social media, number one, in today's world, that was probably the number one thing that I, I have on my board of I wish, uh, that I, you know, need to keep going for, I have a wish board. I have things that I, I want to continue to do and grow. And I think that's huge just by itself is still setting goals and making sure that you're, you know, uh, making things achievable and feeling achievement and continuing to feel achievement in small levels so that you can get to big levels of achievement, small bits at a time. You know, I think that's huge, but I, I believe that you have to set those goals to move forward in any other direction.

[00:53:49] Antony W.: Yeah. If, if someone else was talking about you, like if I said to Van, what is Brandon's secret weapon? What would he say? Like, what is the thing, you know, it's like sometimes people have, like, they literally aren't even aware of what it is themself, that this is their secret weapon. They're, they're charming or they're, I, I don't know. they've got a great sense of humor or something they like, you know, or they're, um, it's the loyalty that's the secret weapon. Or like, like you gave an example before I, you said I will take notes and I will know when that client comes in. I'll say, so how was your son's graduation and, uh, uh, we took off three inches last time, and I know that was a big deal. H how's it been for you? Is that your secret weapon? Like, like what is it?
 
[00:54:35] Brandon D.: Secret weapon. I hate to say it to everybody out there, to bust any bubble. The secret weapon is, uh, consistency. That's the secret weapon, is that I show up and I do the systems as we lay out, I, I, you know, we have a service wheel that we lay out and it starts with greeting the client. Take, you know, your notes, you know, making sure you have all of that, your consultation set up, all the way to performing the service, giving a hand, massage, blow, dry, a blow, dry lesson, rebooking, and then boom to the next client after you've done your note cards on that one.And so there's a system and I follow the system, and that's the key. You know, my secret weapon is that I do it. And I do it almost perfectly every time. And I say almost because nobody is perfect every time, but damn, I'm close. And that's the secret weapon that, you know, you can say I'm charming. You could say I'm funny and I'd like to claim all of those things.

[00:55:28] Brandon D.: That would be great, you know, and I could probably be charming in a moment or funny in a moment, but that's probably not how people would describe me. It's, you know, I'm talented at what I do because I've focused really hard for a long time. But the consistency is what ties it all together and makes a quality product every single time. That's the key, is being consistent. And that consistency comes from a habit of routine. And it starts with taking care of myself and following through to the end of the day and, and doing it all over and over again. You

[00:56:01] Antony W.: Yeah. If, if you were to talk, talking to a, um, you know, a room full of young hairdressers just starting out, you know, on their career path at the beginning or end of beauty school, about to go into the world and you could only give them one bit of advice, what, what would it be?

[00:56:20] Brandon D.: The advice would be that whatever you think you're getting into, and for whatever reason your motivation is right now at 19 to 25 years old, by the time you are in this industry, 25 to 30 years, the reason you're still in the industry is going to change 180 degrees. And the motivations for what you do are also going to change.

[00:56:42] Brandon D.: And I'll give the example of when I was 19, my motivations were basically to hang out with a lot of really pretty girls, cause that was our industry. I wanted to, you know, create this cool art and I wanted to be known as this cool artist. And I wanted to have this reputation as this cool guy. And I wanted to drive a cool car and I, you know, wanted a nice apartment. And it was, it was pretty shallow and materialistic if I go down the list right, uh, all the way down, it was pretty rough. I don't know that there was a lot of character or quality involved in that thought process. Right. I mean, let's be honest about life, right? So then 30 years later, I've got people that I've do all the time that I've known for 30 years now, and I know what's going on in their children's lives. I've watched them graduate, uh, high school to go to college. Uh, I've seen all sorts of transition in my own life, and I've built this wonderful community and network of people that I never knew would be the greatest thing in my life. And that this network of people is my life. Now, I've turned around and I, this is my life. This is who I am. Brandon Darragh is this network of people around me. It is Van Michael salons that I've worked for this long, and all the people that I've helped find a career within that network, you know, and I've helped train and grow. These are my people. This is my life. And the motivations are to continue that.
 
[00:58:07] Brandon D.: The motivation is to make those people around me happy and to yeah. You know, make money. Sure. I'm, I'm here for that. That's awesome. You know, that almost is a byproduct of all the other wonderful things that have come about. But if I can say anything, look for those relationships, nurture those relationships, and don't ever forget that that is what it's about at the end of the day. And if you work on all of that and you master your craft, the money will come. The, the nice car will come, the apartment will come, hopefully, you know, the beautiful girls. My wife's stunning, you know, um, she's amazing. You know, all of those things come when it comes to mastering yourself and everything around you. But the people are the most important aspect. Never forget the people around you and treat them like gold.

[00:58:56] Antony W.: Great advice. Fantastic. What a great way to wrap up. So Brandon, we do have to wrap up. What, whereabouts can people connect with you on, uh, Instagram, you or the brand on Instagram or any other social channels?

[00:59:09] Brandon D.: Brandon Darragh Hair on Instagram. Uh, Brandon Darragh on Instagram and also, uh, Brandon Darragh on Facebook.

[00:59:18] Antony W.: Okay. How do we spell Darragh Just for our listeners. [00:59:22] Brandon D.: D a r r a g h.
[00:59:26] Antony W.: Got it. Okay. Alright, well I will put those links, uh, on our website, grow my salon business.com, and in the show notes for today's podcast. So if you are listening to this podcast with Brandon and have enjoyed it as much as I have, then do me a favor, take a screenshot on your phone, share it to your Instagram stories, and tell anyone else that, you know, that needs a, a good shot of enthusiasm that they should listen to this, because there's been a lot of wisdom here in, uh, Brandon's interview, uh, interview, wrong word for it. But, you know, in this discussion that we've had, uh, a lot of wisdom, a lot of great insights about what it really takes to, uh, be successful. And don't forget to subscribe and leave us a rating and review on the Apple Podcast app. So to wrap up, Brandon Darragh, thank you ever so much for being on today's episode of the Grow My Salon Business podcast.

[01:00:21] Brandon D.: My pleasure. I really appreciate you having me. It was a great time.

[01:00:24] Antony W.: Not at all. It's been great. Thanks.

[01:00:27] Antony W: Thank you for listening to today's podcast. If you'd like to connect with us, you'll find us at Grow My Salon business.com or on Facebook and Instagram at Grow My Salon. And if you enjoy tuning into our podcast, make sure that you subscribe, like, and share it with your friends. Until next time, this is Antony Whitaker wishing you continued success.