EPISODE SUMMARY
Johnmark Oudersluys, executive director of Cincinnati's CityLink Center, joins Anne to unpack a different approach to economic mobility: instead of adding more programs, CityLink redesigned how people access and move through the existing system. The organization brings services together under one roof, assigns each client a navigator, and uses data to understand which interventions actually improve outcomes.
Johnmark explains how CityLink developed the Client Progression Index to measure progress across multiple areas of a person's life, why the nonprofit sector needs stronger data standards, and how CityLink is testing a funding model that pays partners based on clients' wage gains. He also shares what companies can do beyond traditional philanthropy, including building sustained relationships with nonprofit partners and addressing the needs of their own entry-level workforce. As CityLink expands its model to other cities, Johnmark discusses the tension between creating infrastructure for scale and preserving the flexibility that made the model effective in the first place.
KEY INSIGHTS
- Why CityLink concluded Cincinnati was “program rich but systems poor” — and designed around the navigation problem instead of adding another standalone service
- How co-location, a dedicated navigator, and a single intake process eliminate geographic, knowledge, and qualification barriers
- Why being truly client-centered is harder in nonprofits than in business — and how CityLink protects client agency despite competing stakeholder demands
- The gap between what employers say they need and the unstated skills and habits they actually expect from entry-level workers
- How CityLink uses employer demand to identify and quickly build industry-specific training programs through partnerships
- Why labor force participation can reveal a different economic problem than unemployment rates alone
- How CityLink moved from measuring activities like classes completed to measuring longitudinal outcomes and human progress
- Why standardized data matters: without common definitions, funders can't reliably compare nonprofit performance or identify what's working
- How CityLink's experimental funding model pays partner organizations 15% of clients' wage gains, shifting funding toward outcomes rather than promises
- What CityLink learned the hard way about giving organizations more funding flexibility: autonomy requires operational support, change management, and continuous improvement
- Why corporate partnerships can be more valuable when companies contribute sustained relationships, expertise, and talent development rather than one-time checks
- The central scaling tension: build enough infrastructure to grow without creating bureaucracy that eliminates the flexibility and local responsiveness that made the model work
TIMESTAMPS
- 00:03 – The myth of individual responsibility and poverty
- 00:06 – Why Cincinnati was “program rich but systems poor”
- 00:08 – The maze people face navigating social services
- 00:10 – CityLink's co-location and navigator model
- 00:12 – Putting the client at the center of the process
- 00:14 – The gap between employer expectations and workforce skills
- 00:18 – Building training around actual employer demand
- 00:22 – Why CityLink measures outcomes, not just activities
- 00:25 – Building the Client Progression Index
- 00:29 – The “optimal sequence of services”
- 00:31 – Rethinking how nonprofits are funded
- 00:39 – What companies can do beyond traditional CSR
- 00:48 – The tension between scaling nationally and staying grounded
- 00:52 – Scaling infrastructure without losing the “secret sauce”
5) RESOURCES & LINKS
Connect with Johnmark and CityLink Center:
Connect with Anne Oudersluys and Core Impact:
What is Grow Good ?
Grow Good tells the story of purpose-driven leaders who grow their businesses while staying true to mission and values. Hosted by growth and brand strategist Anne Oudersluys, each episode features candid conversations with CEOs and founders about real decisions they make and how they operate across strategy, product, marketing, people, and scale. This show provides practical, thoughtful insight for leaders who want to grow with intention.