Unknown: You still get people in Nashville who will dog it
sometimes, and they'll just be like, Oh, I hate DW. I'm like,
Why? Why? Because it's
a drum that practically tunes itself and always sounds
consistently good and has sexy finishes and has an amazing
corporate culture. And so
whenever somebody, when I see on, especially on the Nashville
drummer page, you know, somebody's just going, we're
just talking about the last episode, how they hate DW for
whatever reason. As soon as they do, I look, I go, That guy's
never toured, or he's never done a fly date. And if you ever get
dw, if you have a backline, if you fly, and there's a backline
kit, your options are Pearl, Yamaha dw, maybe tama, maybe
Gretch, probably not. And so, you know, it's available all
over the world. The Big Three. Those are Yamaha pearl. This is
the rich Redmond show. Your
guests are always like, Are we recording? And you're like, Oh
yeah, we've started, yeah,
yeah. Like, what we're doing now? Oh yes. Have
we started? Yeah, yeah,
and we've started.
But obviously we're going to leave out the part about we
that's,
that's not part record. Oh, we just have talked about a million
things off record that would just be so entertaining, but
they're off record, guys, okay, that's right,
there's a reason why they're off record, okay? And the thing is
that you have to make them off record, but they're fun things
to talk about, but they kid us cannot see the light of day. No,
they just can't.
That's right, that's right, I just can't. But it was just so
entertaining for me. Now, this gentleman that we have in studio
today, I don't know if you're assuming, if you're keeping him
behind the digital curtain right now, but I'm just so excited to
introduce him, because we have been trying this for a year, but
he's so busy. It's actually a resume. I am, like, in awe of
this. I don't know. It's only 24 hours in the day, hailing from a
small town in Wisconsin and calling Nashville home since
2012 I mean, look at this. This guy is going between all these
amazing gigs a decade with Grammy Award winning Scott Stapp
of the band creed. He's a founding member of the of the
pop punk band Amber Pacific. They're celebrating 20 years.
He's also been doing dates with Hawthorne Heights, killer band,
long time, long time member of the platinum selling worship
band, Sonic flood. And then he plays with grace. Got bands like
red fire flight, super chick, all time, low David Cook and the
country world. He's out there with Mark Willis, Craig
Campbell, Josh Grayson, the swan brothers, Tim Duggar, he studied
music with Chester Thompson and Brian fullin at Belmont
University, talking about our friend dango Kellen. What's up?
Man, hey, thank you for having me. Yeah, no, I've got to get to
rock, dude. It is just a long time coming. Mad respect. Man, I
mean, you are slapping back beats all over the world for
just a wide variety of artists. Man, congratulations. Thank you.
You're doing it. You're living the dream. Man,
I'm so thankful I'm living the dream, but the goal is to do it
with one artist, yeah, able to pay all your bills. Yeah, I've
got a friend Rich who does that,
but you have the hustle. And that's, there's something that's
so exciting about the hustle and having to, like, hunt and gather
for your living, and then you balance that. I mean, you gotta,
you got a new family, you got a new house. You're doing drum
tracks from your studio, you're teaching. I mean, there's moss
is not growing under your feet.
That's true. I do hustle, and anybody who lives in Nashville
can appreciate that, because we kind of all do that, no matter
what instrument you play, or if you're studio guy or whatever.
Live guy, studio guy, engineer player like that's what we
respect about this community, is guys and girls hustle, and they
know how to work, and they'll do it day after day after day until
you see some fruit from it. So I'm super thankful that I've
been, I guess, building this things long enough year after
year to where they're finally coming to fruition, and I'm able
to juggle it, because just finishing a two month tour is
long, but I'm gonna jump into lessons tomorrow, and probably a
session tomorrow, then I'm do a Broadway shift tomorrow night,
Broadway shift Friday, and that's just how that's how we
roll
lessons sessions, Broadway. Now this is interesting concept,
because Jim and I talk about this a lot with our guests, the
idea of doing Broadway in general, because there's a lot
of like, young bucks that are moving to town that are very
opinionated, like, Oh, I'll do that. Or they're like, No way,
I'm not gonna do that. And then there's, you know, there's guys
like me, where it's like, you know, I started touring, and
then I never went back down there. But then you're doing
like, four huge gigs, and then you'll go down there and work,
work the muscle, make the money, I
it, but isn't like the Broadway thing kind of highly coveted
now, right? Well,
what's your thoughts on that?
Because we'll give you my take, and I'm not, because there's
three stages
down there. First of all, I gotta say, on camera, dude, you
look like an MMA fighter. Okay,
maybe that's another I've been hitting the weights this tour.
I'll take
it is colorful. I love it. Dude, thanks.
You look like you're about you. Be able to freaking choke hold
us anytime you watch
the MMA, no. And I've never been in a fight in my life, so I
know me too. I get out of my fights with humor. I believe
that for you, you know what I do, I take a look. No, there's a
guy that's coming up to me and he's sticking out his chest, and
he's usually taller than me. I'm like, Oh yeah, you gonna rough
me up. I'm half your size. MFR, and then they just start feeling
really bad about themselves, and they just shuffle away. How
often does that happen? Couple times in my life, people have
witnessed it. Never become friends by the end of that
recently, though, no, not recently. Yeah, you can't, you
can't risk your hands. Oh no, yeah, dude, cut my hand 25 days
ago. Five stitches right here on the money maker, the backbeat
money maker, right where the stick sits in your fulcrum, and
my whole career flashed before my eyes, and the miracle of the
human body and modern medicine, I am so pleased right now.
That's great. Stuff is scary. So Broadway, yes, okay, so I got
into it just before the pandemic, maybe like 2018 I was
pretty late to it when I came here and went to Belmont, I
didn't like country. I wasn't gonna try country. And then when
I was living in Seattle, playing in that punk band I was looking
to move back, I started watching CMT. My kind of party was one of
the I've never told you. This was one of the first videos. And
are you gonna kiss me or not, which conveniently, you played
on both those songs. Wow. But both of those videos had
tattooed guys in them. And I was like, Well, this is pretty
catchy. This is like, rock. There's just a southern accent.
I could get used to this. I still evolved. Those two songs
specifically made me start listening to country. And so
when I moved so that would have been around like, 2012 or
something, right about the time I moved back 2010, 1112, right
in there. So I moved back down here, and I was like, I'm gonna
get into country. So I started listening studying country. I
still didn't even dabble in Broadway yet, because you got to
know a zillion songs. But I got my first road gig with Craig
Campbell, like 2013 and he was a country dude. He only sang
country. He hated rock. He hated my tattoos. Oh, really, yeah,
back then, especially now he's got a sleeve. We've joked No
way, yeah, but he used to call me sleeves. Anyways, this is so
this is leading into my Broadway. So I went from him to
like, Swan brothers, Josh Grayson and kind of all the
country gigs I landed were all like country people, not bro
country not like guys that wanted rock guys. They were all
like, pretty real country singers. So I started just
studying and studying. I was like, I don't know if I can get
into Broadway, like this, 200 songs to get started. And and,
yeah, I knew Johnny Cash, but I didn't really know Merle
Haggard, and I didn't know Willie, and I didn't know Hank
and so I started learning the stuff, and I jumped in. And my
first couple gigs is, like, you make 150 bucks and you're
sleeping your own bed. You're like, well, that's not bad. You
know, some of the road gigs don't pay that much better than
that. So I started getting into it. And I will say now I do it
where I'm pretty selective, and I play with people I want to
nice that I either know we're gonna make money or I just know
they're really good, and so I enjoy it. So it's fun people,
music wise. But I'll tell you, Broadway has probably changed so
much because I talked to older guys than me who were like, we
used to do it for $63 a shift, or $48 a shift. You know, I'm
thinking, I don't know that. I want to work four hours for
that, but I can be down there on a weekend, play with a good
band, and now I'm actually play with one regularly, and we can
make three to 500 bucks a shift, which is great money for playing
in town.
Four hours dollars to stay in town and sleep in your own bed
is great. And when we play
kid rocks, we can kill it on a shift and make 800 or $1,000 a
man with a six piece band, it's awesome. And only make $100 base
and still make that. So that's pretty amazing. But when I look
at us as road guy, like, Yeah, I'd done the road 15 years
before Broadway, there was this huge discrepancy of, like, your
road guy, you're a Broadway guy. Road guys are too good for
Broadway guys. Broadway guys work way harder than road guys.
There was just always this tension. Tension. Now everybody
does everything they kind of do. And the pandemic made guys do
that, just like home recording. But now that I've done it, I can
tell you there's so many great players down there, and I've
played with guys down there who I'm like, You're unbelievable.
Why are you not on the road? And they're like, I'm not gonna go
play for 300 bucks out of town when I can stay home and make
five and sleep in my bed. Thank you tourism. Yeah. And so you
really have to wait, because now I say, I've seen great players
on the road, I've seen great players in town, and there's
just guys and girls doing it on both ends of the spectrum. And
I'm like, I don't see why you don't do both, if you can. Yeah,
the hard thing is, I'm gone so much that I end up losing gigs
in town, and gigs in town wants you to stay home and say, don't
take that road thing. Stay here for Broadway. And I'm like, I
get that. But at the same time, I didn't move here just to do
Broadway. I'm not knocking it, but no, I love that you're
sprinkling in it, yeah. And to me, it's like, well, if I have a
family and I want to provide playing drums, then I'm not too
proud to do any of it, just like, teach the lessons
tomorrow, do a session from my spot, then go play a gig. I
might make 700 bucks tomorrow, but I didn't make anything
today. So to me, it kind of balances out, like, that's a
good you know, every couple days, if you can do that, or if
I teach three or four lessons tomorrow, gig, the next day,
whatever, I just try to do something
six days a week. Bring that mic a little bit closer. We want to
hear what you're saying. I just try
to do something about six days a week where I'm making money,
yeah, and I'll work a seventh. But I'm really trying to get
better about resting one of the day a day of rest. And you
have. Have a new family? Yes, and I'm looking at, I, I'm not
gonna tell anybody what it is, but I'm so happy that you are
charging more than $1 a minute for a drum lesson, because I
harp on this all the time, yeah, a masseuse studies for six
months to a year, and they charge $1 a minute, and then
they get, usually get a $20 tip. So they make $80 an hour. And
they do that multiple times a day, multiple days. Pause,
right? My wife is a massage former massage therapist, but
her education is only that's the proper term, by the way. What's
that? Massage Therapist? Did I say masseuse? No, sorry, so, but
I love Courtney, but what I'm saying is she charges more than
$1 man, she's It's a dog. Now
she's retired because her freaking fingers are going all
different directions, but it takes a toll on the body. And,
you know, she got paid 175
in Vegas. Well, that's fantastic. I'm talking about,
yeah, but I agree
with you. I think that, you know, there's a tremendous
disparity to understanding what your value is. And a lot of
people in the creative realm like to spout, especially in the
voiceover realm, know your worth, know your value. Nobody
cares, yeah, until you can articulate and sell the value.
Yeah, okay, and make you know, it happened to me yesterday.
Somebody wanted me to, want to, you know, Ben, to go out and
shoot for and only get paid for two hours. I'm like, No, it's a
half day minimum. Shoot, video, shoot, video, yeah. And I said,
that's what we charge. It's a reasonable rate. Well, you can
get it done in two hours. I'm like, Dude, there's travel,
there's setup, there's the shoot for two hours, and then there's
coming back and unpacking everything. It's
not just two hours, it's eight, yeah, yeah, no. But i i champion
that, because we talk about this a lot, and I just think there's
this race to the bottom, and a bunch of creative, creative
people. You've got 30 years experience of playing the drums.
So whoever's taking a drum lesson with you is not just
getting some, you know, new guy, that's just, you know, they show
you the syncopate. I mean, you got all the time in the
trenches. That's great. So I like that.
Thanks. I feel like I'm very reasonable. I'm $40 for a half
hour, which is you can go to Guitar Center, yeah. And so I
just look at it like, and I really do 75 an hour even. But
anytime a parent asks me about it, I just say, Well, I've been
playing professionally 20 years. I've been teaching 15. So I'm
hoping you're buying my experience more than your kid
learning a paradiddle like I'm trying to keep your kid. I'm
trying to guide them along the way with some mentoring as a
person and skill sets beyond just what they're learning on
the drums, and if you can't afford it, I totally understand
that, because not every family can, but for my time, I can't,
you know, I'm not doing $20 anymore or whatever, because I
have a family, and most people with a family like, Oh, okay.
But the thing is, is making them realizing I'm helping you solve
a problem that you have, which is, when they have lessons with
me, I typically find that the parents don't have to fight them
to go to the lesson. Yeah, they look forward to me. They look
forward to it. They enjoy the lesson. They you know, I'm good
with kids. You know what I mean, huge. Because I mean, how many
times I had to fight my kids? You got time for guitar? I don't
want to go if
you're listening to this podcast. It means you're already
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should. So
do you ease them into it where you're like, hey, we're gonna
play back in black, and then I'll show you why this is
important skill to have it. Or do you start them with the
traditional pedagogy? This is how you hold the stick. Here's a
flam here's a paradiddle. Here's page 38 of the syncopation. And
then eventually we'll get to rock and roll. I
kind of jump in wherever they are at already. Most kids, if
they want to take lessons, they can either already play a basic
beat, or they're excited about it, or their parents wouldn't
try it. So I try to start them with. Practical things. It's not
as conventional. It's not all those things you said. And I
wish it was a little more of that, because I I'm more
unstructured, and I sort of do different things for every kid.
I don't have, like, this is the day curriculum that we're all
doing. Yeah, it's like, I've got a book for different kids, and I
just keep building off whatever they're working on. So that's
cool. One kids, you know, on six eight for six weeks or 10 weeks,
and one kid's like, we're doing some basic Latin, and another
kid's like, well, we're still working on that paradiddle, and
you don't have it yet. So yeah, it's just kind of, I just kind
of go with wherever they're at. I keep pushing them. And then
there's always one or two my students that are really good,
who are either, like, one just went to college on a music major
that felt like a huge success, because I probably had him for
10 years, right? But you have a couple like that who are just
always pushing you, like, Okay, I gotta come up with some stuff
this week. So I'll sit down in my practice time and go, right,
what am I gonna teach him? And it's usually, re, you know, I'm
usually rehashing something that Chester or Brian, one of my
teachers taught me, or something I got on, you know, you're
standing on the shoulders of giants, yeah, yeah. It's like, I
have so much to draw from. And my thing is, how do I get this
kid, student, adult? All I've got to do is get them to the
next level and still be excited about drums. That's the is
it about finding out their why? You know, like when I took
lessons once upon a time, many, many, many decades ago, I wanted
to, I self taught a lot of what I know. And at one time I, you
know, everything was just very linear in the way I played. And
then I saw, like, Neil Peart play in a show of hands, and his
drum solo, he was accenting. And I was like, what is that? You
know, he's like, he's doing these little, like, soft notes
in between, yeah? And it's like, I had no idea what it was, but I
had the, I'm like, I want to learn that. That sounds cool.
The Why was established, you know what I mean? So I just, you
know, I sat down and my drum set downstairs, and I was like,
okay, that's Yeah, and it's getting the uncomfortable, you
know. And then, and then started understanding accents and stuff
like that, understanding the why of paradiddles to let them okay,
when you master this, look, what you can do is that how you
approach it? I do
that a lot, where I'll show them sped up, like this is what we're
going to do with this, or this is something around the kit.
Here's a few fills to do with it, but I say this is why we're
doing this. I don't want to waste your time. I'm not going
to make you learn every rudiment. I'm going to make you
learn some. And then you can go from there and learn others if
you want to. But I'd say half my students have enough care to
even process it like that and go, Okay, I want to learn this.
Or can we work on this, or watch this? The newer ones, a lot of
them, they just don't care. Like, what are we doing this
week? Okay, yeah. Like, you could explain it and be like,
okay, so then you're just, you're sort of competing with
the technology and, like, they're going to be right back
on their phone or tablet as soon as the last soon as the lessons
over. So then you're just trying to keep them engaged, because I
think a parent is paying me to not babysit, but to essentially
keep them wanting to come back to Lessons. And that's sort of
the other Yeah, they may not be awesome, but they're going to
still love drums, like, I don't want kids or adults burnt out on
music, because all we did was just drill the
the math. You find yourself being like a therapist
sometimes, occasionally, you have a couple
students like that, if they've been with you a long time, and
they want to sit and talk about things, or they're older, you
know, I say older, but like, 20s or 30s. Sometimes a student like
that, and I'll want to hear how their life is, or how they're
teaching now, and how their lessons are going, and that sort
of thing. I've one student in Canada I've had for like, a
decade. He was a fan of my punk band, and he's just started
teaching last year. And I love that, because he'll talk to me
about his lessons and show me something. I'm like, What are
you showing them? Like, what if you break it down more simple?
You assume these kids know, but they don't, and you could make
that easier. And so he's like, I just love you're so right. You
said, once I started teaching, I'd understand why I wanted to
explain things. I'm like, the easiest you can make it is going
to make it so much better explain
it to a fifth grader. Yeah, right, yeah. Now your your drum
parts with that Amber, that Amber Pacific band, great,
because I think we were about to do this interview maybe like,
four months ago, and I was doing a deep dive on all the all of
your body of work. And I was like, Dad, those are great drum
parts. I mean, it was like, was the band? Did the band kind of
come up at the same time around the some 40 ones and the blink
180 twos and all that.
Oh, for sure, our years on Warped Tour were the early 2000s
those bands were big blink and Green Day were, like the massive
mainstream. But we landed the same time as, like, Fall Out Boy
and my chemical romance, and a lot of those, just the pop punk
and emo stuff all hit around then. And so some 41 yellow
card, a lot of those bands we toured with. So yes, I was in my
early 20s or mid 20s. I was just done with Belmont. I was like,
I'm going to show the world. I'm going to play the coolest stuff.
And it's funny, because I look back now, especially this year,
Amber, Pacific. It's our 20th anniversary. We did new record
in January. It came out in January. So we recorded
Nashville. And I said, how would I play this in my 40s as a
mature drummer, versus what I'd have done 20 years ago? So I
said, I'm not gonna pre come up with the craziest parts. I'm
just gonna play for the song. Do some cool stuff, but try to play
for the song, yeah, which sounds very Nashville, but. Those early
records. I listened back, I was like, that is so busy. And yes,
I executed some cool things, and I really worked on them. And
this was, yeah, there was Pro Tools, but it was like, You, I
mean, you had to play stuff. And yeah, and we were doing
everything on the click, which in punk rock was not common. We
played to a click Live, but I was very anal. We were on Warped
Tour playing to a click Live. And I remember one time Brooks
Wackerman, who was one of my favorites. He was in bad
religion. Now he's in avenged seven. In Avenged Sevenfold, but
he's standing behind me, and he's like, man, your timing is
just so good after the set. And I said, Well, man, I play to a
click. And he said, You do that live. And I'm like, You're
Brooks Wackerman, like you're one of the guys. I look up to
him, and Josh freeze and yeah, he couldn't believe it, but that
was just why, when I went in to do the records, my timing was
really good. That was very common. Yeah, yeah. And now,
everybody, you know, everybody's got tracks, all the metal bands,
everybody's on click now, but back then, yeah, not common,
unless you were in a huge mainstream act. So that helped
me a lot of my timing developing to play fast, but also it was
fast stuff. So didn't really translate to Nashville at all
coming back, but
very creative. You do things like, like, like, on a bell. You
did? Gosh, yeah.
And that's a lot of that. There was a lot of Travis Barker in
that area. He was the guy that put it mainstream. But the
bands, there was also a lot of the fast punk bands, no effects
and strung out and lag wagon and MX, px rise against a lot of
these bands had fast drummers who did cool stuff. They just
weren't household names. Travis Barker really put it into the
mainstream of like, oh, you can play busy, yeah, if it's in this
genre. So now
he's a Kardashian. So, well, yeah, he married. He's married.
He married a
Kardashian. He was married to a Playboy Playmate for a
while. He was so all that to say a bad breath.
Even hot girls have halitosis. He
did. Came into my radio studio, my production studio, and I was
like, Hey, how's it going? Oh my gosh, okay, let's go take the
picture. It's
amazing. Jim,
so I look back, I'm really proud of those records, especially for
the era they were, yeah, I wish that band had been able to get
bigger, but we had a great run. We had some videos on MTV. I
mean, it
was a band, band, right? So you were like, yeah, it was a game
you got publishing. And you're like, selling hoodies, and
you're like, taking shifts, driving the van, you're deciding
what the cover the record's gonna be,
yeah, all that. And kids came to shows who were like, fans, and,
you know, fans of your drum parts. And I had a drumming DVD
I put out. Of a lot of those very early on, you're an early
adapter, yeah? And so, for example, this tour I just did
with Hawthorne Heights, we came up at the same time as them. We
shared a bus with them back in the 2000s so I go way back with
these guys, but I don't really talk about Amber Pacific a lot
when I'm out there. But we were doing a VIP. And last week, a
kid, a kid, you know, a 35 year old kid, comes to our 35 year
old kid, you know, we're signing all these Hawthorne Heights
records, and he pulls out the first Amber Pacific record, and
he had done his homework. He knew I was on the road, and he's
like, Hey, man, I've never met you. I'm a huge fan. It was so
touching, because it's a, you know, an album from 2005 that I
signed this week. And those are super rewarding, because you
don't kind of so the so you go way back with the Hawthorne
guys. So when they needed a drummer for whatever reason,
they were like, Hey, remember that dude from way back? Yeah,
and
we'd kind of amber Pacific had always opened shows for them
here and there. I mean, they had sold a few million records, so
they were a different stratosphere than Amber Pacific,
but always cool guys, great, down to earth dudes, family
guys. And so they called me and right around Thanksgiving and
said, Hey, can you fill a couple shows? I said, Man, I'd be
honored to like, You guys are awesome. And by the time I
rehearsed with them, Poppy, the previous drummer, had been there
decade, and he just just like, I'm done. I quit. I'm done with
the road. And I was buddies with him. He just hit a point where
he's like, I don't want to be on the road anymore. So it wasn't
any bad blood
at all. Isn't it funny how that does happen to people like it
does?
Yeah, you just burn out, or you just hit a point. And he just
hit 50. And I think he was like, you know, I think I want to try
some other stuff in life. So I kind of,
drumming is a lot of work. It's the because I was a huge fan,
really enough bad religion, yeah. So, I mean, he big fan of
theirs. I love their music, and I listen, you know, back in the
bobby Shea or years and stuff like that. And when they were
open, when they, I just moved to Vegas, and they made the
announcement that he did the part of the band. I think he
blew out his shoulders or something, and like, Hey, we're
auditioning. I'm like, oh, I should audition. And then they
hire Brooks, and I'm like, Yeah, and it's funny, we'll talk about
night and day that first album they did. It was like, Oh my
gosh. Just energy and just, he's such a player. Yeah, goodness.
What a beast.
The weird thing I have about some of the punk bands, like
super fast stuff, like, I start hearing the upbeat snare as the
downbeat.
I get that. I did it around. I did it first. But once you hear
it, it's also about the production in the mix, if it's
mixed well and the guy's really solid, yeah, you can feel it.
And I think on our records, when you hear that beat, you can feel
it because of there's a couple differences how you accent the
kick. I know it's pointless to get into but a few of my guys, I
could go I can hear it without you telling me who it is, and
I'll know by the kick drum what band it is, because I've studied
that
beat. It's like, like, what? Like, Josh with the Vandals is
flawless, yeah. I mean, just his speed, dude. It's so Josh freeze
is my number one. Like, if I could be anybody, because he can
play for everybody. He can do it, but he still did the punk
thing, but then he can do Foo Fighters. Since there's
something about punk that I felt like I missed out on because
there's, you know, in in country, I tell all my students,
you're going to be playing a lot of songs between 69 and 89 BPM,
because it matches the strum pattern of an acoustic guitar
when where songs are being written. That's just the sweet
spot of that particular genre. So a lot of the stuff that just
becomes part of our DNA playing this genre is that is the
bottom, even high heads gonna be a lot of douche do, gosh, do you
know so? But I never got to play the super fast stuff, because
you have to. It's another mental switch, because the time is
going by faster. So, but are you thinking 12341, it's more.
You're thinking probably almost cut time, right?
What's funny is we call it. This isn't a this is not the correct,
correct musical term, but we used to analyze this, and we
call it triple time, because you've got straight time, 123,
cut time, 121, and two and three and then twice a and lots of
times, all of ours were over 200 BPM, and that's kind of how my
band did it. So we'd be going to get it and your kick, and it's
very specific, that has to be single foot. If you play it with
double kick, it's metal, it's cheating. So it's got to be it's
got to be single
so your right foot is killed. My
right foot is very good at that. One thing,
your right calf is, like, so much bigger than your left calf
right. But
if we get on the right foot thing, what's interesting for me
as well as I've had six knee surgeries. I've had a bone
transplant in high school on that knee because of drumming,
no, because of a bone disease. And so it ended sports. I
thought I was gonna go to college for sports. Was my
dream. But I was like, I guess I can still drum, they said. So I
was like, I guess I'll go to Belmont and try drumming full
time. So I did that, but I've had six surgeries on it. I've
done a tour with Amber Pacific with just my left leg. How'd you
do that? I just practiced. You put a double kick down there.
And I'd in college. Chester gave us so much backwards, left
handed stuff, that I just did it. But, and then a couple years
ago, it's been five now, but I've had a total knee
replacement on that kick leg. So six surgeries on this leg. I
have so much arthritis in my right leg, and
a knee surgery is akin to a shoulder surgery, because it's
it's painful and it takes
forever. It does, yeah, how long was the PT and the recovery
there, the knee replacement and the bone transplant. My first
and last were the worst they reached, like, six months,
probably. But that all that said I can still play arthritis or
not? Like, yeah, you can complain whatever I play in
pain, and there's a lot of things I can't do, maybe that I
could previously, but I can play music, and I can walk, and even
if I walk with a limp, I can't run a jump anymore, but it's why
I exercise. I try to stay relatively fit and try to keep
my weight down, because it's just extra stress on the knee.
Do
you like, even when you're playing those beats? Because,
you know a lot of guys, you know, you'll probably see Lars
do it sometimes, but they'll just kind of, like, when it gets
too fast,
they never cheat the hand. That's not punk rocket. You have
to do. You have got to, you know, always yes. And I can tell
you, there's drummers like yellow cards. Drummer LP was
amazing, but he played the fast beat going get he cheated the
same time. Yeah, I can tell you, every drummer who's done it that
way. But that aside, we're talking about like, I still play
punk rock, right? I almost never play punk rock. That was like,
doing the record this year was so fun, because I never play
fast anymore. And then now coming out with Hawthorne
Heights, they're more like pop rock drumming, like there's
nothing on there that you would go mid tempo. It's all mid
tempo. There's nothing there that you would say, is that
different than what you would play on a nightly basis? Yeah.
And then with Scott Scott's music, Scott Stapp, you're
recreating Scott Phillips drum parts, yeah? But we got to brag
on you, you're on the latest single that hit modern rock
radio, right?
Yeah. And so most of playing for Scott the last 10 years has been
play due respect to the Creed songs, massive hits. You're not
reinventing the wheel. Nobody wants to hear dangos opinion on
how creed should be played. They want to hear creed. So for me, I
always try Don or Scott Phillips part playing as close to I can.
I, you know, put a little bit of my flavor in there. I probably
played it six or seven years exactly as close to the record
as I physically could. And then at some point we'd been the same
band, and all the guys were like, Why don't you ever do your
own thing? And I said, Well, I don't do that. This is national
we respect the original artist. They're like, just do your own
fills. Staff's not going to care. And I started doing it.
And that's one thing I'll say about Scott, he does not really
care what the drums are playing. He's real particular on guitars.
But I just started adding fills, not crazy like try to be
tasteful musical, but just make them sound more like dango
playing creed, and not just creed, playing creed, because
they're going to hear creed again eventually, and now they
finally have this year. So I've tried to do it like that. And
then when I played on Scott's latest record. Like it was more
of playing what the producer wanted me to play. It wasn't
like I was putting a ton and you did it from your home. I did it
for my studio, which is pretty cool to say. You know, have a
song that charts from my studio, but on modern on modern rock, I
believe. So yeah, because it was the top five for sure, I don't
think it went to number one, but it may
have. And that was the last three creed songs are a lot of
cutting the hi hat, man,
that is such a cool signature thing. You're in the middle of a
ballad, dude. It's
just,
yeah, I remember being in high school in the 90s, late 90s,
when those records were big, and just thinking, like, that was
his signature. So every drummer's like, Dude, you play
the high. I'm like, how could you not? That's like, his bread
and butter. That's what put him on the map. Are you guys
friendly? I have never met Scott Phillips. We love 10 years with
Scott, and you've never met Scott? Well, I don't think they
were on the best terms as far as creed and Scott, I couldn't tell
you personally. I don't know the other I've never met any of the
rest of the guys in creed. But now that they're back together
and they're doing a reunion. Who knows? Maybe I will meet them?
Oh, who are the other guys in Scotts band? Are they old
Nashvillians?
No, and there's been some change over a little bit. But no, I'm
actually the only one that lives in Nashville
now. Are they, are they going to tour with Limp Bizkit? You think
because they they were
at odds, they used to have a beef. Scott has told has said
that him and Fred, Fred are on great terms now, I think just
the older you get, you look back like,
whatever. What were we doing? Yeah, I saw Fred in the in the
audience at the recent Metallica shows here in Nashville. Biscuit
opened for Metallica. Yeah, the nights. And it's funny, because
you see all these guys that are, you know, used to be in their,
you know, not dare I say, in their prime, but, yeah, they
were in their 20s, you know. And you got John Otto, and he's
playing like he's my age, you know, it's like, Dude, it's
really, I'm getting back into playing now, like, you know, but
I'm setting it up, like, how a 40 year old guy would do it,
yeah, he's still playing that kit like he's in his 20s.
Yeah? You mean physically, like, physically, it
also the way the kits set up, you know, that's like, it's just
not ergonomic. Yeah, in my opinion,
I I've changed a lot of stuff, too, when you talk about that,
like, getting older, the way I set up, Broadway's made me do it
too, those four hour shifts, everything's lowered, it's
closer, it's easier to reach, little flick of the wrist. Yeah?
And, you know, one thing I remember you always saying is
your your drums and cymbals get bigger, the older you get, and
the less notes you play. And that has stuck with me so much,
because just this is a great example. This tour we just did.
I just finished 40 dates. It was basically three metal bands and
Hawthorne Heights. And I say metal different kinds, metal
core. I don't know the new terms. I've never been a grind
core, scream, oh, but I'm telling you, all of these other
drummers are ripping every night. Every one of them's 10
years younger than me or more, and they're just blazing feet.
And I thinking like, Well, I gotta get up there and
play. But you could visibly see great is coming on. I
know. And and I'm, Are you friendly with the guys? Dude, I
became friends with everybody in these bands, and I just took it
on myself to be like, I'm the dad here. I am, like, the
veteran. I've been playing professionally longer than all
of the guys here, and almost more, almost as long as one of
them been alive. So I just try to think about it that way,
because I'm like, these guys could probably play circles
around me, but I'm just going to show them. This is how you tour
as a veteran. So we get up there and and Hawthorne Heights had
hits, which is cool. All the other bands just didn't have the
I mean, Hawthorne had a couple songs that were massive. So if
you were in the scene at all, you just you definitely knew
them. So I tried to just go out there and play the songs the
best I could. And talking to those younger drummers, they're
like, Dude, I've just never seen anybody play like that. They
were so encouraging. And I'm just like, Dude, you're
unbelievable. Your feet and you're playing the tracks and
click. And I couldn't do
that, seeing all the Instagram drummers
they are, and that's and I'm not putting out any of these guys,
these guys, all three of these dudes, were great drummers, but
they were so complimentary on my pocket and feel. And I was like,
I'm another drummer. It means the world. Yeah, cheers.
It's funny because, like, as I came up, could I ask how old you
were? I'm 4444
You look fantastic. Yeah,
you're okay. I'm 10 years older than you.
You you're a rock star. I look
like I'm 15 years older than both of you.
It's funny, because I came up on listening to like Benante was a
huge influence for me. And you see that guy play now, he still
plays with the same intensity. But it's funny that you
mentioned that the symbols get bigger and more close together.
He's kind of doing because he's still playing the same intensity
in music. You
can't be rotatory cuffing way up to the right. You know, David
Letterman, Steve Jordan symbol. Well, all those
guys, all those like the Thrash Metal guys, the Dave lombardos
and binantes and stuff like that, all their symbols were
typically, because they were playing so fast, they had, they
had to, you know, yeah, they had to hit that symbol, and it had
to be within reach, yeah, and like Dave Lombardo, the way he
plays now, I'm sure he's in his 60s, for crying out loud. I'm
sure
it was a great lesson for. Those guys, because, you know, you
can't get around the experience and the intentionality and the
time and the trenches and the maturity that comes with that.
And I'm, you know, the same thing. I'm this, you know, this
year on tour, I don't know who's playing drums for Nate Smith,
but they're direct support, so I'll sure I'll meet that young
buck, and then Ray Lynn is opening for him. And you know,
that's Kaylee Moyer, young drummer, the female drummer from
Belmont. So, you know, I'll be the granddad on the tour. You
know what? I mean, it's like, you know? So
this week I met, do you know? I'm sure you do. Joel
stevenette, yeah. So I never met him, Salt Lake City, yeah. We'd
met one time, I guess, at NAMM through Garrison, you know, DW
guys, but he hit me up on Facebook. And I was like, dude,
I'd be so honored if you came like, that guy is just, he's
fantastic. He watches the whole set. Was so encouraging. We end
up talking for an hour. He's like, Yeah, I'd seen your
videos, but to watch you play with that authority and so much
confidence in your pocket. He's like, and you didn't overplay.
And I just was expecting you to get up there and just shred or
whatever, yeah. And it was like, it was the nicest compliment to
get from a guy, you know, in his 50s, that high, highly respect
plays
on a lot of video games, yeah, dragons, yeah. And, you know, he
had, you know,
just talking about his resume play for Jody Messina and a
handful of gigs that I was just like, wow, you've done a lot of
cool stuff. And he was so complimentary of that, because
it's so easy to feel, I mean, it's so hard not to compare
yourself in our industry, and to see young kids coming up and to
see the chops and the speed, and I'm not putting down the
Instagram drummers, just to see either the gospel chops or the
metal side, and neither of them really compete with me. And I'm
just like, wow, that's fast, and I'm just here playing boom
chick, boom chick. But, but to have a veteran speak that into
my life encouraging like that was just like, Man, I guess I'm
on track and I'm doing it, and I'm so thankful, because I
always encourage my students, or just, you know, guys new to
town, I'll go to lunch with them. And there's a few guys
that I talk about, like you I'm like, rich went to lunch with me
right when I got here. And there's just guys who will do
that. And I'm always telling and girls too. I never want to leave
out the women. But you know, if I'm hanging with a guy and
they're just, they're they're trying to battle this Nashville
thing, I'm like, Just be yourself. Yeah, you can't walk
into every gig and think it's you're the best fit, because
you're not. And you can't land every gig, but you can be
yourself, and if you stay true to that, and you learn the
music, and you show up, and you're professional, like,
that's all you can do. Somebody's gonna love what you
do, and you're gonna fit some gig. You can't be, you know, you
can't be the guy that's gonna play for everybody.
And you know what? You're not meant to work with everyone, and
that, and that is a hard thing to come into, because the same,
you know, hard when you're in your 20s and 30s, it's like, I
want to take over. I'm going to work with everyone. You know
what? I mean, you're just not meant to. Because ultimately,
what happens is, you know, the culture of Nashville is, they
call them, they call them the camps, right? So, oh, you're in
the LD camp, you're in the Hawthorne Heights camp, really.
And it's, it's a camp, because it's like, this subculture, you
got all these Bucha circle, yeah? It's like, it's a it's a
circus, it's a family, it's the Family Circus. Yeah, it really
is,
you know? And there's always somebody better and faster, and
there's always somebody that shows up that's got more
experience, and then there's always, like, a matt
Chamberlain, or somebody moving to town, and you're just like,
what, what are you doing here? Like, why are you coming to our
city? So there's always going to be that stuff, but you still
just do what you do, work with who you can be thankful and
appreciative. Do you're doing? You know, keep hustling, because
covering a lot of bases here, man, when I just played on five
new tracks for Tim Duggar.
Tim's amazing. I've only filled in probably, I don't know, 10
shows with him, but he was wonderful to work for so really
grounded kid. Yeah, he's got a great head on his shoulders.
He's only
30, I don't know, yeah, like 32 years. Amazing.
Crazy. It's crazy, yeah.
So we're fellow DW ers, were fellow promarkers were fellow
Humes and burgers were fellow l peers. Oh
yeah, yeah, been. DW, I'm I think I was 2000 like eight or
nine. Oh, wow. 2012 for me. Okay, okay, I got you there?
Maybe
11 or 12. DW,
really got to the rock guys. They did early on. I feel
like they have even a bigger push in the Gospel market, but
they definitely have been real rock guys. The guys that for me,
though, were Josh freeze and Abe Jr, like growing up reading the
magazines for whatever reason I was like, Ew and feisty are what
I want to play because of those guys. The only
thing that dw really doesn't
have a lot of coverage in is is modern jazz. Really? You got
Carl Allen. I
think Carl Allen plays DW drums.
Other than that, everybody in the damn world is playing their
drums, and it's in every movie. If there's a drum set in a movie
or a television commercial, it's DW. It's like, pearl
in the 80s, yeah, you
still get people in Nashville who will dog it sometimes and
they're just like, Oh, I hate DW. I'm like, why? Well, why?
Because it's a drum
that practically tunes itself and always sounds consistently
good and has sexy finishes and has an amazing corporate
culture. And
so whenever somebody, when I see on, especially on the national
drummer page, you know, somebody's just going, we're
just talking about the last episode, how they hate DW for
whatever reason, as soon as they do, I look, I go, you. That
guy's never toured, or he's never done a fly date.
And if you ever get DW as an endorsement, if you have a
backline, if
you fly, and there's a backline kit, your options are Pearl,
Yamaha dw, maybe tama, maybe Gretch, probably not. And so,
you know, it's available all over the world. The Big Three,
those are Yamaha Pearl dw, yes, I
talked about, we talked about this a couple of episodes ago,
how sonor is making a very concerted push there, and
they're starting to show up at all the different Broadway
establishments. They are
great drums. They're never gonna have the world coverage because
they're too particular to German and they don't put out enough
stuff. So dw is everywhere. I've played them in probably 15
countries now, yeah, I can get a DW tune to sound like me almost
every night, especially if it's got my heads on it, which,
thankfully, at the level I'm at, pretty much I can always get my
exact Evans heads that I play which which ones are those
double play I use the EC two, which is double ply with a
little ring around it, and there's no Remo that exactly
sounds like it really. And I'm so big on I've been playing
Evans my whole life, but I think the Emad is the best kick head.
If you like Evans, usually like the mad. Some people do. Some
people don't like a little it's, it's got the big ring around the
outside. That's like the Remo finally started making one last
year. That's a direct rip. And I think it's because the, I think
the, not the copyright. What's it called? Ran out the 20 years
of patent. Yeah, the patent. So now Remo can make it and
not is that kind of like the power stroke three in a way? No,
okay, it
is not, which I do not like. Well,
we were, we were sitting around the other night. It was a bunch
of pro markers, and everybody played ProMark sticks, but I was
the only guy that didn't play Evans heads. That is kind of
crazy. I was the only Remo only Remo,
yeah, which Nashville is way more remote than Evans, but
that's interesting in that group. So I was Evans. I'm on 20
years with Evans. I think this year amazing. And so that was my
very first real endorsement. Actually, Vic Firth was and then
Evans that year, and I played Vic for nine years, and the
adario bought ProMark. And so there was this whole thing of,
like, Evans guys switching over to pro mark. They played
something else. I was like, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it.
I love my Vic Firth and Marco, who was at the time, Holy God,
rest his rest in peace. Marco, he um, who just passed, he was a
and our guy at the time, he had signed me at Vic Firth. Now he's
at DIA Dario, so I'm playing Evans already. Steve Loeb Meyer
signed me there. He's been my dude forever. Love him. And so
when I was playing with red, who's like, kind of an active
rock they were Christian, but they're an active rock, like
arena rock band in 2014 right before step, they were pretty
big band, and they'd sold a couple million records. And when
I was playing with them, Marco just kept saying, we'll find you
stick, I'll send you stuff. And he just kept sending me things
to try. Said, you show me something I like as much as this
Vic. I'll do it. So I eventually, that year, switched
over to pro marks, and I've been with them, I guess, I don't
know, over 10 years, we play like a 5b 2b, I, I came over
playing the Teddy Campbell signature, which is an SD nine.
It was like a little bit it was a 16 and a eight, so a little
bit longer. It was like a long 5b a little bit fatter. They
discontinued that last year. Oh, wow. I talked to Teddy about us,
like, bro, you're sick. He goes. I know all my friends keep
saying so now I play the 5b long, but I do the rebound one.
That was the other thing. It was like a rebound weight. I don't
know if you do the forward. I do the four belt, okay, which is
very pro mark, like they were all forward until they started
adding these rebounds, yeah. But Vic, are all rebound weight. So
that's what I was used to. Yeah. So all that to say I've been
with ProMark now a long time, but they were so good to me, and
I just thought, I'm nobody, and if they're carrying this much to
take care of me, and I don't deserve this, like, why would I
not be loyal after you went
after your endorsements? Because that's the number one question I
get all the time. People were like, how do I know when to do
it? When do I do it? I was like, You will know when to do it,
because here's the deal. This is what the company wants. They
want you to be educating. They want you to be recording. They
want you to be on television. They want you touring. If you
can do maybe two out of those four now high level, and have a
presence on in social media, that that's when you know when
your band is going to be on television, or your band is
going to be playing for larger crowds. That's when you know to
go after the thing. Yeah, you know,
I just okay. I need to back up here. Yes, I've been playing for
35 plus years. I had never heard this concept of forward balance
and like,
Okay, I'll explain it quickly. I'm a nerd about gear. So when I
play stuff, I learn about it. I study it. For example, with
Evans, when they put out a new line of heads, I try it always
like, so that I can tell people, You are Great endorser. I
actually am, like, for not being on an A level gig. I'm one of
those guys that's like, I could work at the drum store. I just
used to read the magazines. So most sticks, well, take Vic
Firth. They're all rebound weighted, meaning they're
weighted more towards the handle and ProMark the differences.
They're weighted towards the tip. Okay, so ProMark just a
couple years ago, maybe five years ago now, said we're going
to make both. We're going to call it forward or rebound, but
you can buy a stick in a 5b or a 2b, or whatever. You play the
main four or five stick kinds. We're going to make it weight at
the front and the back. And then the ones that sold well, they've
just kept and the other ones. They've dropped. How
have I not known this? So
either the weight of the stick is in the back of the stick,
yeah, or it's in the front of this and it's entirely
preference. And everybody just said that, yeah. Everybody just
loves what they love.
Thanks bridge for making them feel like a freaking dumb ass.
Well,
I'm just saying the weight of the stick is on the front of the
stick, yeah, or the back of the stick.
So you're saying that the weight is like, if it's forward, it's
in the front or the back, okay, of the rear balance. So if you
want to rebound, it's more in the back so you can get more
rebound. Is
it rebound, or is it rear balance? It's called
rebound. Oh, okay, that's what they call it. That was rear
balance, which would make sense. I don't know what's in this
coffee. If you hold a 5b rebound or forward next to each other,
you definitely feel a difference. Yeah, yeah.
That's like, even today I went to Guitar Center. I had to pick
up. I had to replace this on the snare. The snug the drum set you
got me, it was missing a look, screw. Yeah, right. Tension rod.
That's right and
really short for snare one, it really is. So I had
to go get replacement tension rods, and the guy asked me. He's
like, you don't want any sticks or anything. I'm like, you know,
I should, really, should shop sticks. He was upselling you,
but totally upselling. Would you go to one at the Thompson?
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. That's much more bountifully
stocked, yeah. But, you know, I'm like, at some point I really
need to, like, once things are stabilized again, and I got
money in the bank, it'd just be nice to go and be like, I like
that symbol. I want that. I want that symbol. China, that symbol.
China, Wuhan, this symbol over here. I like the sound of that.
You know, just to sit down and for like, once in your life,
like, what you guys get to do, would be cool to just sit down
and be like, No, I don't like that drum, bringing out another
one. I'm gonna put this one here. Yeah, sounds good. That's
me, you know, yeah, I need I'm probably like,
do we do that? Do we like sometimes? I mean, usually what
I do is, like, if I like a drum,
like, I'll see, I'll hear somebody playing. You didn't,
you didn't go to dw and be like, sit down and like, bring them
out. Let me hear what you got,
definitely so easy, like on the theme song to the rich Redmond
show that was just a jazz a jazz series, 1216, 24 Bing Bong.
Bong. 24 is not jazz. Yeah, the series is jazz. It's called the
jazz series because it's
a maple gum shell, which is based off the USA customs from
the age, you mean
rich. It's not wood that they found on the freaking moon or
anything like that. No purpose. I don't know
why they name it that, but the reason it got famous was because
Dave Grohl plays them all the time. But I don't know why they
call it the jazz series. It's so bizarre. I just know the wood
combo. I know what the wood
you'll play every every other format, every other style but
jazz, yeah.
So I'm a gear nerd, through and through, and I love it. I could
talk drums with anybody, but the biggest thing I always try to
tell people is I just everybody hits different everybody's got
different touch. It's how you do it. So, you know, I've got good
buddies for like, Oh, those are the worst drum heads. That's the
worst snare, worst symbol. Why do you play that? Like it's the
way I play. It's the way I hear it. You do a different thing,
but that's totally fine. There's no right or wrong. It's just a
it's a preference, because I'm a rock guy, so yes, I'm used to a
kick drum with a pillow in it. Some guys want it wide open.
Well, bottom played it wide open. I'm like, well, Bonham was
playing John bottom brother. I can't play anything like him.
You probably can't either, and I can't play 20. And the
engineer is not going to be pleased, yeah, you know, for
most situations, right? And, you know, okay, so you are a rock
guy. So what is you're playing the pasty Pisces.
You can't play in an arena, by the way, with wide open kick
drum very easily.
You got to have something. I've tried the pillow
in there, and still had times where it's going. So, yeah,
anyways, go
on the policy. What's your what's your series of choice on
the pasties.
So is it
okay? First and foremost, is it feisty or
feisty? It rhymes with feisty. Sorry, and I've heard that from
the namesake Kelly feisty herself. So that is how it said.
I have a feisty upstairs. I'm on year 17 or 18 in the feisty
family, so I consider myself knowledgeable about them for
sure, like the Mercedes Benz of symbols, I won't argue
with you there. It's, you know, people be like, well, they're
not Silja, they're not Sabian. And I'm like, well, they're
certainly more expensive. They're the ones that sound on a
record. They just sit in a different place. And if you
think about the bottoms and the Steve Jordans and Van hills,
there's and procarro, there's just a lot of those guys who
are, like, upper echelon, who like that. That was their thing.
They did their whole career. So, yeah, I play the big beats and
what they are newer line ish. I mean, the last five or 10 years,
2002 has been around forever. You know, you could go Alex Van
Halen, or you can even end of bottoms career. Played the 2000
twos. They're cool sound. They're very feisty. They said,
Let's make a darker version of those. They're thinner. They're
like a thin 2002 they've got a black label. 2002 they look the
same, but that's what I play. And they're all bigger sizes.
They don't say crash or ride. It's just big beat. So I've got
a 2221 and a 20 and 15 hats. They do 1516, hats. There's
nothing smaller. The downside is there's no. Uh, China's or
splashes, which I know you don't need for most gigs, but I always
have a China and certain gigs I'll use a splash. So I wish
they had those. But for me, they're like, they work great,
and I love them because they're rock, but I can hit them hard,
but also they just don't bend, and they're light, they just
stay out of the mix, like, in a good way, the hi hats never too
loud. That's probably what I have
a bag of. I have a bag of Pisces that I use. I always have around
for some producers that really that their prefer the crashes. I
believe that just at the level you're at, because I've seen,
like, a few of the guys in town who are like, you know, like,
you playing on big stuff. And I'm thinking, like, Who did I
see recently? Just went and bought all Pisces.
I try not to Jerry. Jerry row, he bought all Pisces. He
Wait, he came in, got a whole set of big beats at forks.
Because, you know, he's like, Mr. Mile guy, yeah, and the
guy's unbelievable. But he just wanted that sound for another,
yeah, another option, just
having have, you know, have the stuff in your bag of tricks. You
know, it's not something you gotta be misabe. And so I'm
gonna go, you know, I'm gonna start a symbol company, yeah,
and I'm gonna start it out of Virginia, just so I can call my
line of China, the vagina.
Ouch, he'll be here all night,
because, VA, try this. Try, try the veal. Okay,
Virginia's. VA, yeah, vagina. I
like that, buddy. I mean,
really big marker.
I mean, damn you like any kicks his own jokes. So how, how does
Sonic blood fit into all this? Okay,
so that's a big Christian rock band. Man, it was in the day,
and they're still doing the thing, right? Yes, but not so I,
I'm, I'm a pastor's kid. I grew up playing in church world is
one of the first places I really played with people and learned
how to play different kinds of music. And so I've played
worship music my entire as long as I've been drumming. So like
Michael W Smith and, yes, but that's more like CCM, that's and
I'm a huge Michael W Smith fan. If he called today and said,
Will you play like I would, that's a childhood favorite of
mine. I saw him in an arena in the 90s. Anyways. So when Sonic
flood came out, they were one of the first rock bands in
Christian music to go. We're gonna take these old songs that
you did that were kind of churchy and lame, and we're
gonna make them cool. Yeah. And so they were doing that when I
was in college. So about 10 years ago, I got a call to fill
in. They were already sort of past their prime. But I was
like, Well, this is band I used to love, so of course, I'm gonna
do it. I met the guys, sweetest dudes ever, still making music.
And I was like, Well, of course, I'll do this. It's like, we
might play five or 10 shows a year. It's not a Oh, it's not
competing with barely anything else I do. And I do it because I
love the dudes, and now I've played on some of the recorded
stuff too. So yeah, it's like, I'm in their catalog. I'm a
member now, whatever. But a lot of guys in CCM in Asheville
played for that band. They've gone through a lot of members.
It's not a it's not like a regular act. So write a passage
band, it kind of is, and it's just one that I look up to. If I
talk to kids now, they won't know who that is, even if
they're in the Christian world,
but they don't know who Sonic flood is, then they're
definitely not gonna know who Petra is. Probably not. I saw
Petra when I was, like, 14 years old. Man About pillar. Pillar,
I've never seen pillar live. I'm great friends with Lester and
huge fan of his, but he's like, red over there, yeah. And pillar
is, like, the same air as that band red that I played in, and
actually, super chick, a band I played for Lester's brother was
the longtime, like, main drummer of super chick. I came after
him. I didn't realize Lester had a brother, yeah, and he was a
pro drummer too. Now he's a pastor. Wow. Um, anyways, so
yes, I've kind of come across and toured with a lot of
different Christian bands over the years when all those you
listed in my resume, like, yeah, I might have done two or three
years and boom, it wasn't like a long stint. So I keep the sonic
flood thing because it's like, they're brothers now. And if
they called and said, Hey, do you want to Will you go out and
play? I'm like, if I'm not doing something, I will 100% be there.
But yeah, if I'm on another tour doing 30 dates, I can't leave to
go do one, yeah, one Sonic now
they say it's rude to talk religion and politics. But with
that being said, Are you still a believer? Or have you, I
am actually, yeah, and I'm and yeah, it's not the I'm never
gonna argue with anybody about Christianity, but I'm hardcore
in my views, for sure, and my goal is to be an encouragement,
be a light, to show people love. I believe that's what Jesus was
about, right? I don't think he'd be here arguing about politics.
I don't think he'd be here arguing about a vaccine or
masks, or any of that so companies out of Virginia, yeah,
yeah. So my thing is, like, if I can represent Jesus without
being a weirdo, like, that's my goal. My goal is, go out, play
music, have fun, do this, make a living, but just encourage
people, they will know you by your fruits, yeah. And we have a
chance to go out and, like, I mean, just that we get to do
this, and we get to play music, and I get to meet people all
over the world. I'm so fortunate to do that. I'm not the greatest
drummer. I'm not even the best drummer in the room. You know,
it's like, everywhere I go, I go. I want to be the best I can.
But really, like this tour, I just finished, my biggest goal
out there was to encourage all those younger guys and other
bands, because I thought they have great careers coming. Yeah,
and they're looking up to me, and I'm thinking, you're way
better than me. Like You're gonna do great stuff. So to me,
that's like a lot of what being a Christian is, it's just
reaching people and being encouraging, not trying to
preach at them, and not trying to argue, not arguing.
Interesting question, though, what is the like with the kids
that you're coming across? What are some of the challenges that
are probably unfamiliar to you, that you've never had to really
face, that you know they're gonna face, and
you're talking about musicians coming up specifically,
yeah, in the next generation.
I mean, we didn't come up with phones or social media.
Obviously, that's one of the craziest things. Even with my
kids at home, I can't imagine coming up, comparing yourself to
people being able to watch them when you're eight or 10 or 12,
that's really bizarre. I also think it's we didn't have to
deal with the idea of being virtuosos or playing in the
Olympics as a drummer, like when we were kids, you knew there was
Vinnie, and you knew there was Dave Weck on these guys. But
nobody's like, Oh, I'm gonna be Vinnie. You're just like, that's
Vinnie. I'm gonna play music like you didn't nowadays, yeah.
I mean, Vinnie could play anything, yeah? But you didn't
think, Oh, I have to be Vinnie to make it. You're thinking,
Kali Yuta, yeah, yeah. Like, I'm gonna
go play a wedding band. I'm gonna go, Yeah, I'm gonna go be
a working
drummer. Yeah, I'm gonna play a church. I'm gonna play my rock
band, or I'm gonna go do this, you know, I'm gonna play a
wedding band. I don't think it was like today where kids are
like, Well, I gotta get online and I gotta be able to play 300
BPM, and I got to rip all these Eric Moore gospel chops, and I
got to do all this stuff, like, we just didn't have that. So I
have to
film it, and then I have to, yeah, I have to learn how to
engineer it better. Sound good,
yeah. And I got to get endorsements when I'm 10. Like,
what that was pressure, okay, but this phone thing as a
father, you know? Like, I'm not a parent. I've, I, man, I
struggle with this so much. I've mentored so many kids, but I've
never done the thing. So you're doing that. So what are my most
parents doing now to to encourage kids to be present?
Are they limiting screen time? Yes. How does that work? I'm not
good
at this. So I was telling you guys I got married just about
two years ago. I have four new kids that were not previously
mine. Now they're my kids. So how long do you know them?
Sorry, I've known them four or five years now, but did not live
with them to get along
with the ex cut the father, actually, I
do, yeah, yeah. He's a nice guy. That's good, yeah, and I don't
want to
speak. So the oldest you you were there during her formative
years for sure. No,
because we weren't living together. We were not in a house
till we got married. A year now I'm saying like, kind of knew
them, right, but now that I'm, you know, trying to be dad to
four kids, the screen thing is very tough, because especially
the little guys, it's hard to explain to them or try to give
them time or and the only way to punish a kid now is to take
their screen away. Nobody cares about grounding or getting
spanked or doing lawn care like as long as they're back to their
screen. So for me, that's been a huge one to try to get on. I'm
not saying I'm doing it well, because I don't think I am. When
I talk to other parents, they say, Oh, you got to limit screen
time that their attitudes are going to and that's one thing my
wife and I notice, when you take the screens away for a week,
your kids are so much more pleasant to be around because
they're they're not stuck in that. And that's why this
matrix, this causes so much anxiety and stress and
depression. Comparison. Yeah, yeah. And because you're
constantly looking at what's better, what's in life that I
don't have, we didn't have that. We just were like, Let's go
outside and play I'm bored. Let's go play sports.
Come back when the street
lights are on. Seriously different world.
But it's it. As a parent who's grown up, you know my kids
obviously know me, I'll give you a little, hopefully, a little
bit of a word of encouragement. The best thing you can do to
your detriment is get them talking. Is get them to
communicate with you. Man, I agree with that, because my wife
has been just world class at that because, I mean, our kids
tell us stuff, or I'm like, sitting there and they'll be
bringing up stuff that like, I go, Really, yeah, you know, it's
just like, I'm your dad. I don't need to know this kind of thing.
You know? I don't need it seriously do, but at the same
time, too much information to have that kind of reaction,
because communication is key, is tantamount, and
if you close that door, they're not going to tell you anymore.
My wife is great about that as well. And I I'm trying to do
things like it's hard with four I'm trying to do where I like
take one out to dinner or something, to just try to get
one on one time with each of them, because they won't talk
around the other ones a lot of times. So that's definitely a
part of it. So yes, becoming a parent in my 40s was not like
your idea of things that would happen.
You jumped into the deep end with it, yeah, yeah, you didn't
have time to ramp up. I didn't, and
I'm more workaholic, so a lot of the balance is my wife just
saying, Hey, do you need to take that gig? And I'm like, we could
use the extra $300 she's, like, more than your kids, right? She
does, but she was working six nights a week, serving, and now
she works three lunch shifts, which is a huge improvement, in
my opinion, because she's home every night. And I'd love to get
it to where she doesn't have to work outside the home. My wife
is anything but lazy, so I just look at it like she's been a
single mom so long, working full time. I'd love to say, hey, why
don't you just focus on the kids and being home because you've
already worked more hours than any woman should have to any.
Person. I'm not saying one word woman in a negative way. Yeah,
Bitcoin.
He broke the wall. He Mr. Furlid it.
That's right, Bitcoin, just put your money in Bitcoin, yeah, I
mean, but you
get, you have to borrow by portions of them, Satoshis,
yeah, what they're called, that's like the nickels, dimes,
quarters of Bitcoin.
How much you need to get in on the smallest fraction you just
buy? I think there's 100 million Satoshis inside of a Bitcoin. So
one fact, as they say, as the kids say, stack your SATs, is
that what the kids say, that's the Bitcoiners.
That's what the Bitcoiners, what do the crypto bros talk about?
Yeah, interesting, try. I've been very big into crypto in the
last two to three years. Well,
it could make me sound hip. It could be part of your, you know,
retirement strategy, yeah, you
know, God willing, yeah. I think the dollar is going out the
door. But, you know, think so. World reserve currencies only
last about 80 to 100 years on average, and the dollar is about
there,
oh, my god, yeah, yeah. You know, it's really comical. Pen
says that's, that's zero value. None.
Is that the dollars got zero value.
It's a Fiat hitting that point. Yeah, yeah, wow.
Because it takes at least $5 to do anything, yes, you know, like
a cup of coffee is like, Dude, you better have five bucks. Look
at
it this way. In 2010 when I first heard about Bitcoin, was
2012 2013 when I was selling Mercedes, and I was like, What
is this crypto, Bitcoin? How do I buy it? I have no idea. You
know, it took like, three or three to five different hoops to
jump through to Buy a Bitcoin. Back then it was, like, 100
bucks. Should have bought, yeah, see so much,
100 of them. But you don't know. How could you know? No, right?
So, I
mean, it was one of those things that you kind of looked at it
and nobody knew what it was going to mean. To me, it was
like the internet circa, probably 1985 you know what? I
mean, everybody, you're probably a very select few, a bunch of
people that knew what the internet was, but the world did
not, you know right now, cryptocurrency, I believe, is
probably the internet circa 1994 95 it hasn't had mass adoption
yet. Nope. Telling you, crypto guys, I didn't need to start a
crypto podcast. No, Jim, you don't need anything else. I need
more podcasts to produce.
I'm gonna throw one other financial thing at you. This
changed my life this year. Yeah, tell I'm not gonna get too into
it. I came across this last year. It's a company in Franklin
called, I don't know if either of you heard of this. It's
called replace your mortgage University, and it's couple guys
who were bankers that figured this out that if you have a 30
year mortgage, do either of you have a 30 year mortgage? I have
an all in one, so that's what it is, yeah. So is he all in one?
Yes. So you've already heard about this,
yeah. So it's getting more popular.
So it's your HELOC, yes. So first position HELOC, it was
very difficult to do self employed, to show the income to
refinance, but I just refinanced after a year and a half in this
house to a HELOC, and now my 30 year mortgage is going down to
8.3 years, if I just stay on track with what I'm doing. So
and I'm not gonna get into it, since you already and it's
liquid all the time, that's what I I'm trying to tell all my
friends, and they're like, Well, I don't get it. And I said, I
get that. I did the whole course. I had to study for 40
hours on this. But I'm telling you, your money is liquid all
the time, so you can always take it out,
but you have to have a mindset shift, and you have to make sure
you're making more than you spend. But that
wasn't a mindset shift. That was just continuing to live the way
I was living. Way I was living, right? That's, well, you're
probably
physically, physically responsible, yes, which makes
sense in that case, because every time you get paid, it's
being swept over into the account, and it's driving down
that principle. And
so that's a whole weird thing to get into that's not drama
related, no. But, I mean, Jim has been telling me about it for
years, I would say I just and this company doing it, they're
like, we're not the only company doing this. You don't need us to
do this. We just train you how. And I bought another thing. It
was $6,000 and I've already in a in a couple months, have already
but
to your point, rich drummers need new drummers coming up.
Need to know this stuff. So
one thing Jim Riley was so big on was opening a Roth. Ira and I
never did. And finally, at age 40, I had gone through divorce,
bought my first house. Got out of debt, and I started the Roth,
and I don't have a ton in there, but yeah, I wish I would start
at 20, but 40 is not too late. I'm still gonna have a little
bit when I'm 65 or whatever. So I'm so huge on telling younger
players, squirrel some stuff away, yeah, and figure out
different ways to do it, like the Roth is one cool way to do
it. And another thing is, I bought my first little house, I
built that studio. I never thought I'd remarry, and when I
met Amber and the kids and remarried, I was like, well, now
we got 25 people. We can't live in this little house. So, so
that's your studio, yeah, so I had to buy another house. I kept
the studio house, which was almost a miracle. It felt like
God really provided that. But I Airbnb the house on weekends,
and I use the studio Monday to Thursday, and I lock it up. And
so renting it out two days every week, pays the mortgage and pays
all the utilities on it. So smart. So I own a second house.
That's probably eight minutes for me. I manage it myself. I
manage it from the road. I use the app I'm on there every day
changing stuff, and it's not that much time, once you learn
how to do it. And then my wife and I kind of split the
cleaning. She does all the cleaning when I'm. On. So that's
super nice, but we've just made it work. And so that's also
newer. In the last year and a half of like, now I've got an
investment property on top of the other stuff that's really
smart. Yeah. I mean, do you ever go in there and it's like, it's
like a crime scene with, like, bodily fluids and stuff? No. And
I'm
always like, it's gonna happen one of these days, but you have
to have through Airbnb, you have to raise your insurance on it.
And through the city, was so hard to get the permit there,
like they hate Airbnbs because they've messed with the economy
here. Yeah? And so you have to jump through all these hoops.
And it was like you have to have a million dollars insurance on
your property for that stuff too. So we've had a few issues,
but nothing. Yeah. Well, the thing that
a lot of people need to understand, especially young
people coming up, is that they're being sold the American
dream as home ownership. And as I've gotten older, it's like,
Well, I understand that, but until you have that mortgage
paid off, you don't own that home. Because if you miss a
payment, they're going to remind you real quick who owns it. And,
well, I'm going to pay it off. And, you know, do the Dave
Ramsey thing. Well, guess what? And you still have to pay taxes.
You still have to pay your property taxes, and as long as
property taxes are in play, you don't own shit. You do not own
anything you it was funny because somebody the other day
was telling me that they sold their house and they had to pay
capital gains taxes. And I'm like, Are you freaking kidding
me? It's like they're getting you for everything. The only
thing you really own is the equity in the house, which the
all in one which what you're talking about gives you access
to that's what you really only own, you know. But as long as
there's property taxes, which are the most dastardly of taxes,
and I will say publicly,
but then they went up 33% in Davidson County,
right? That's the thing is that, you know, if you don't pay them,
but you're going to own your house.
Mount Julie, it is
Wilson. Robert Wilson, yeah.
So, I mean, that's, you know, and working around that, and
getting the mindset of, like, what Grant Cardone talks about,
like, Look, if you're going to go into a property ownership,
then own multiple doors and rent them out, yeah,
you know. But there is no
more safe, probably surefire, way to create equity Understood.
Then, then homeowners Absolutely,
but a lot of the way it's being sold is that you own your
property. No, you don't,
no, You never, truly just don't miss the payment. It's just,
just keep paying it.
But, you know, but that's the thing, is that, like, again,
going back to my point, once you pay off the freaking mortgage,
you still got to pay, pay, make payments on it, and you're not
even control of the rate. It's kind of, it's it's maddening. I
sure hope these, uh, rates come down, because they might. I'm
going to refi like a mother. Maybe do the all in one, get
access. You want me to do it, but good, because you have a lot
of money, right? You'd save a lot
of money. You pay it off quicker, and you'd also have
access to your equity if you ever need it. Real quick. I'm
going to save over $400,000 of what I would have paid on
interest on this house in 30 years. That's the part that's
hard to grasp, how it's not like fake or, Oh
yeah, because, I mean, it takes for in the amortization process,
exactly what it is the first decade they front
load the interest. It's
a wash. You're just paying, just lose your pain,
right? But what's the what's the catch? There's got to be
something in it for them. There
is, and here's my best way of understanding it. You might have
a better explanation, right? The bank is getting your whole lump
sum because you're trying to keep money in there, and that's
what keeps knocking the rate down. They have your money the
whole time, so for 10 years, or whatever amount of time, you're
putting all your funds in there all the time. And they can
obviously use that for whatever. So they don't even sell your
your payment, because it's not a mortgage, and they are
controlling more funds of your money. It's just for a third of
the time. So they're making more on it, and you're making more on
it. That's the best way I understood
it. That's the trade off. But the thing is, is that you have
access to your equity, immediate access. That's
that's dangerous, because I got mine for $370,000
and that's what the that was for. So I it paid off my
mortgage right away. But now I'm sitting with liquid 370 in that
account I could pull out if I wanted to buy a car. That's very
scary, yeah, but they said, as long as you keep living the way
you are, you're fine, you just keep knocking it down, yeah,
yeah, so you can buy your car and it's basically in the house,
yeah, yeah. You're paying yourself in
a way. Anyways, this is veered greatly from the drum stuff.
Now, you know,
but that's important. It is, yeah, I mean, but
people with experience, fast forward two months from now,
you're wearing all designer clothes, and you're driving a
Porsche,
yeah? And if you do that, you're gonna tank yourself just like
you would,
like Mercurio would be very upset with you right now.
Oh, I'm just saying, I'm just saying it that that's Porsche,
temptation, Porsche, Porsche, Porsche, Porsche. Yeah,
gotta say it, right?
Well, man, you're, you know, you're doing all the right
thing. I'm just, I'm just terribly impressed with, you
know, all the gigs you're juggling, and you say, Well, I'm
not on an a gig, but whatever the gigs are, what if, whatever
they are, B plus is, it's, it's all equals an A, because you
have a career in drumming and you're providing for a family of
five,
well, family of six. Family six. Super. Thankful because for all
of it, but looking back like I know when I first met you, and
telling you, like you're one of those guys that I have so much
respect for doing this, because yes, you've played on big
records, unless, yes, you play for big artists, but you've done
this for a career, for 30 years, or whatever you've done, yeah,
to juggle this, and you've done the speaking engagements, you've
done the clinics, and you've I've just always looked we're
still alive. I've looked at you hustling, like going. Lots of
people get to your level and be like, I do one thing, and that's
it. And you don't. You're always working, always. So you were one
of my for not being that much older than me. I was always
like, this is the kind of guy I want to do this, like, a career,
yeah. And some people love what you do, and some probably hate
it. And who cares? You're doing your thing. Oh, I'd love to
hear some of the conversations when I leave the room. But, you
know, we're all, we all could be treated, you know, we if we all
heard those conversations, because it's just, you know,
it's not a good thing. Gossip is not a good thing. It's very
detrimental as part of the, you know, the human condition. Try
not to think about those things, because people are talking about
us, you know?
Well, that's the thing. You've made yourself a brand, and
that's what I love, and that's what irritates people, because
they'll be jealous like, I wish I would have done it rich did
2030, years ago. It's like, well, you didn't, and he did. So
this is
where we're a a long line of people that have come on the
show and have paid homage to you. Oh, I believe, because
that's, and that's, and there's a reason for that, you know,
because we've had very intimate conversations and Jim and
friends for eight years. And it's like, sometimes you, even
though you're you know what you've done, there's still a
chance of getting down about things, yeah, stuff like that.
I'm like, Dude, you know you've set out. I remember you said you
put it on a glossy business card or a recipe card or something,
that what I want to do is have a positive impact on be a top call
drummer and have a positive impact on the people I meet.
Dude, you've done it, man, we just got
to keep doing and you're doing it. That's
the thing. You've done it. And I mean, I
was, I was trying to look back to when we met, and I found a
picture of us at NAMM today, from like 2012 maybe something,
right before I moved to Nashville, back to Nashville,
and I remember you and I going to probably that year. We went
to lunch at just downtown. And I just remember you took the time
and I was we went to the Pizza Pizza Pizza Kitchen. What's it
called over in green hills. I don't know if it's still there.
Oh gosh, California Pizza, yes. Oh my. I don't know why I
remember that, but I just remember standing there talking
in the parking lot after and looking back, it meant a lot to
me then, but looking at it now, and knowing how busy I am and
where I'm at in my career, and thinking like, you did that when
you were, like, already super established, I just was thinking
like, how much that meant.
I remember coming to that my house for the first time, like,
holy crap, he's actually coming here. I never said it wasn't
like you were charging me, and it wasn't like you were sitting
there checking your it was just like you were being real. He
gives you, He
gives you 100% of himself. And that's the thing is, is that you
did a clinic at Forex several years ago, and you were just
utterly astounded at how many people came out to see you,
yeah, and you were just, I'm like, why don't you get this?
That was cool, you know? And why? Why don't you understand
that these people see who you are and how good of a person and
beautiful soul that you are. Oh, thanks, Jim. Okay, am I close to
getting you to
tears so sweet? Well, you know, I mean, I, I am easily terrible.
You are terrible.
Yes, yeah, it's serious. So coming in a great drummer is one
thing, playing all the music's one thing connecting with
people. That's the skill set. I just that a lot of people don't
have love people. I went to a pretty, relatively impromptu
drummer's luncheon the other day, because you probably know
this kid, Jordan Arnold. He's this young kid in town. He kind
of plays like Tommy Lee. He's got like, he's got the big kick
drum and the three floor toms, and plays in a real energetic
style, and licks his sticks. And he stole some of my twirls, and
he's doing the thing. And he connected with Greg Bissonette,
and Greg bissonettes Get him a Dixon deal, like he's starting
to play, he's doing the thing. And he said, Hey, we should do a
drummer's lunch. And like, you know, the ones I do on the first
Wednesday of every month over at that, that rat trap Chinese
buffet, I got, I got to tell the guys, you got to change the
venue. But it's hard to find a place where you could fit 30
drummers in, like a like a last supper style bike. So anyways,
he gets five or six guys together, and we go to Martin's
on Elliston, and we sit down and we're breaking bread and we're
cutting up. And for I know, it two and a half hours go by,
yeah, oh, my God, just I love drummers. Yeah, I love drummers.
Bass players don't do that. Guitar players don't do that.
Singers don't do that. Very
unique to our instrument that like brotherhood. You
go to the Music City drum show. And you see that culture a lot
of very helpful people. There's very little ego. Yeah,
even that drummer's lunch. And I always miss it. I try to go,
like, once a year, but that Wednesday thing is the nicest
people, and it's, we have
to move the venue. I don't want kung pao chicken served with a
side. Cockroach. It it's definitely, it's
definitely rough. Let's move it to Franklin. Yeah, Cool Springs.
I just think
that, you know, if people were willing to drive to Spring Hill,
the Martins here in Spring Hill has a gigantic dining hall, and
we could break bread and just be loud. Let's do it, big, high
ceilings and so be
like, Hey, man, can I? Can I be a part of it? I'm not really a
working drummer, but I'm trying, dude,
you're a working everything. Yeah, you guys both have a work
ethic, serious work ethic, as do you. Congratulations on
everything, buddy. Thank you. You did it. You came to
Nashville like you came here for college. You know you've worked
around this physical ailment that was very impressive to work
around that you know you're playing through pain. You get
your degree, you go out west, you, you know, become a founding
member of a, you know, it's an iconic punk band now, man, you
know, it's like in the you've changed things 20 years. That's
amazing. Then you come back here, you're doing all this
stuff, great.
Well, I hugely appreciate it. That means a lot. I i try to be
thankful every day and just keep going and try to go. What do we
do to keep this? Yeah, like, how do we keep this afloat another
20 years? I don't know. That's teaching. That's
the recording playing locally, saving your money, all the
stuff, all in one. HELOC,
seriously, check it out,
guys, check it out. I
promise you. Give it a half hour, it'll change your life.
It's
a different way to think about mortgages. You signed up for,
you paid good money to take the class, to educate yourself,
to do that. Yeah, the quick the other quick story on is my
buddy, who's doing marketing for me, says his company in Franklin
small but check it out. He explained it to me in like five
minutes ago. It's too good to be true, doesn't that's impossible.
I said it's got to be a gimmick. So I looked at the stuff online.
I called my dad. My dad's like, Mr. Financial just got it
together. His house is paid off retired. He didn't retire till
like 75 so he made sure he had all these things in line. He's
super hard worker. He's been a pastor my whole life, and just
now he just rides his Harley and he's retired. So anyways, I call
the rev my dad, and I said, check this out. Do you think
this is crazy? He goes, Yeah, that's too good to be true.
That's can't be possible. I said, yeah, just look at the
YouTube video. So he calls me the next day. He goes, Well, I
ended up watching five hours last night of videos about this.
And he goes, if my house was not paid off, I would do this. You
need to look at this. I don't know if this is going to be
around forever or if this is going to change in our you know,
the way the laws work, but you need to do this. So wow, I
bought the program, and the only reason I bought is because I
didn't know anybody else who'd done it, which is crazy, like I
hadn't even talked to a single person who had. And they kept
saying, you don't need our program. If you know how to do
this, we're just helping you through it, and that's how we
make our money. So I bought the program, did the whole course,
and and they said, we help you get a refinance on your home. If
we don't, we'll give you your money back. That's how you
pay off your house in eight years, as opposed to 30. Yeah,
it just said they average about
a third of the time based on what you're making, what you're
saving, and you have to have a credit score over 700 so if you
don't have a credit score over 700 and you don't have 20%
equity in the house, you can't do it. Gotcha. But I had 20 and
my credit score was like 839, it was crazy high this year. For
some even
have credit scores that I 839 Yeah, I bet if I look right now,
it's at least 820 Whoa, yeah. Whoa, that's perfect, dude.
Anywho so good credit score and 20% down, you can do it. But
refinancing self employed as a musician, just like buying a
house, super hard. Siri, Siri and Alexa
are gonna pick up on this podcast episode, and you're
gonna get freaking inundated. Freaking inundated with credit
card offers.
Yeah. Well, what's your favorite color? Black, amazing. What
about your favorite food?
I I'm always a burger guy, but I really have loved barbecue
moving to the south. I didn't grow up with it. It wasn't a
thing. Well, that works
out great, because that's what you're eating on a country music
tour. Yeah, hey, guess what? We got the best barbecue you've
ever had in your life. It's usually not, though I know we
had been we had Ben Jackson in here, and, you know, he spent
like, a decade touring, and he's like, the best barbecue you've
ever had in your life. Every day someone claims it, you know. So,
the best barbecue in the country where
I have a firm number one,
you know, my thing is, I just always, no matter where I am, I
get the Texas Beef Brisket. I like the brisket. So when in
Texas, you know, yep, that's always the thing. But as far as,
like, a brand, you know, I was just at Martin's pretty good.
Yeah, I like the brisket them, and Ed Lee's in town. I like Ed
Lee's brisket a little better. I like Martin's sides better.
Terry Black's, which is in Austin originally, and also in
Dallas, that is my favorite, the brisket. But they have these
beef ribs that are like this big, that are like brisket on a
rib. I don't know it's like crack,
though. So you told me one time you're kind of a foodie, kind
of,
I'm not like, I don't spend a lot, but if we're like, this
week with Hawthorne, we played in Vegas at the strat, sad that
we had dinner at the top of the, like, Space Needle looking
thing. I had $100 steak that I didn't pay for. Like, I get to
do that as we do, but if I were on a date, would I do that? No,
because I'm too cheap.
We ate a $60 steak this week. Yeah. What does $100 steaks
taste like?
Yeah, to me, I'll tell you, I was shocked, because I don't
think, I don't consider myself to have. Like, a professional
palette of expensive food. And I was like, Is this going to be
better than, like, you know, going to Outback? Probably not,
because that's like, I'm more like, like, for my birthday.
Last night, my wife and I went to Longhorn, and it was
fantastic. Your
birthday yesterday. Yeah, you just turned 44 Yeah, yesterday.
Happy birthday. So that's
a great meal for me. This was, like, Australian beef or
something, you know, it was like something, and they had, they
had wagyu, and they had, like, three or four different kinds,
and I was just, like, $92 for a steak. That seems steep, and I
had it, and the guys were all looking at me because they all
have more expensive taste, and they have all been in this,
members of this band for a long time, and just financially, in a
different place than I am, different tax bracket, yeah, and
I'm the hired gun guy, so I try to, I go, guys, that's literally
the best steak I've ever had. So
for 92 bucks, it better It better be, yeah, all I can say,
it was great.
Now, what about a
drink? I forget if you do the cocktail thing, every once in a
while, I have never had a drink in my life. I think I remember
hearing that I am addicted highly to Diet Coke, and I'm
very opinionated about diet coke, but I don't drink alcohol
or coffee, which is really aspartame. Yeah,
my business partner, he'll drink Diet Coke, no coffee, no
nothing,
yeah. So I'm very big on the fountain being my favorite. And
I fight with people about this a lot because, like, a gas station
is terrible. And I'm like, I agree you can't beat McDonald's
diet coke out of the fountain, or Coke, for
that matter, it's, it's perfect because of the carbonation,
yes, and there's a shipped cold, it's the only one that comes in
cold canisters that's refrigerated, and they have
their own. It's just slightly different than everywhere
else now. But you do know that aspartame is, like, terrible,
terrible. I agree,
yeah, and it may be my downfall, but everybody's got something
in. Like, if that's what kills me, I love
it. So was that, like, like, your the rev coming into your
influence in your life, where he was like, Don't ever take a sip
of No. And my
parents didn't drink when I was a kid. Like, they'll drink wine.
Now, I definitely grew up in that 90s Christian Era of like,
alcohol is the devil kind of thing. But now it's really not.
I just chose not to. Till 21 I was like, and then I started
touring that band. I'm like, I'm like, I'm not going to do drugs
and I'm not going to drink or smoke, because I want to be
different for kids. Like, that's part of my example as a
Christian, but also as, like, a professional, this is how I'm
going to be, yeah. And what's funny 20 years later, like,
that's one of the biggest reasons Hawthorne Heights,
besides us being friends, they're like, we're kind of a
sober band, and so we're a little boring on the road. We
just don't want somebody that's a wild card. They all got sober,
yeah? And they were just never a big drinking band, like they'll
have a cocktail or whatever, like you're talking about, but,
I mean, there's not hard liquor on the bus. And we're touring
with bands who are like, you know, some are doing cocaine
every night, and it's just still living it like it's the rock
stars you can't do that. And with, yeah, and we're the dudes
who are like, well, you're like, Rush touring, because that's
kind of what it felt like so but we just, guys would be
in their hotel rooms, like, reading books, yeah, kisses,
having, like, orgies, and we're just,
and that was another thing. Like married family guys, like, we
just, this is how we operate. We're a business. If you put the
business first, it's always gonna have a better chance to
succeed than if you're doing stuff. So that's kind of the
thing. It's not like I'm against drinking. And if we were at
dinner and my wife had a drink, like, Great, I'm on board. I
always kind of want to try, but then I go, I've come this far. I
might as well just like, write out my things. Why, in my 40s,
start drinking, right? Especially because I'm very
addictive with drinks specifically, yeah, like, if I
had a Diet Coke here that was this big, it'd be done, like,
I'd already have it down. Okay,
well, I wish we I think we got some in there. We gotta send you
on your way with some aspartame, right? So, so Jim has got a new
series called The
Deep five. The depressing five was that we're going, what's
they could be depressing, but let's not do that.
Okay, so what is wrong? What sounds right
in the world, anywhere, anything. What's
wrong? That sounds right? Well, very deep question. You could
pass on things too. You're like, No, I'm
trying to think. Like, I don't even understand what we're I
don't like that one. Jim,
we'll pass hard pass. What animal could be cutest if scaled
down to the size of a cat?
Oh, these are just like, random, so stupid.
I mean, like a lion or a leopard or cheetah or something.
Hey, we'll do one more thought.
There has to be five, if they're good questions. Yeah,
I'm trying to find one.
What's wrong when you are old, what do you think children will
ask you to tell stories about nice,
either what it was like before cell phones or
what it was like before computers. Yeah,
I've got mail, yeah, remember that the dial up sound for AOL,
we didn't
even have, like, a family computer in our house? Yeah? Um,
maybe what it was like when we were driving our own cars. Who
knows? Oh, yeah,
what do you think? Do aliens exist?
I don't believe aliens exist, no. But as a spiritual person, I
definitely believe in angels and demons. That's a whole nother
conversation. I would say probably, when people see
aliens, it probably is a physical thing. Man, if.
Testing. It's something spiritual. That's probably a
demon that they're thinking is an alien, my best,
yeah, like Constantine. They're going to make a follow up to
Constantine, really. Yeah. Have
you seen the movie? Signs, Oh, yeah. Phoenix with the Mel
Gibson
swing away, Maris, I forgot why Phoenix was in it. I just think
of Mel Gibson, yeah, in
the scene where, you know, because Mel Gibson plays a
character who walked away from the cloth because his wife got
killed. And, man,
I haven't seen that in like, 23
it's a really deep movie, yeah, and, you know, it's almost like,
to your point, the aliens that you see are almost demonic, and
at one point, his kid, he's trying to console his kids
because he's having an asthma attack and he doesn't have his
medicine, yeah, and at one point you see him, he just gets in his
motors. He starts going, I hate you. Remember that part where
he's in the dark basement and stuff like that? Who do you
think he's talking to?
That's really interesting, right? But who was
he? Because I think at that point, you know, a lot of the
things that were coming to fruition were prophecies that
were given to his wife, and he's starting to make the he's
putting two and two together. I honestly think he's talking to
Satan.
You know, I hate you. Why are
you putting like you could be construed as him talking to God?
Because he walked away from, right, the spirituality. And
then he really puts it together. When the alien tries to point
gas poison, the kid, yes, and his lungs were closed. And he
says, you know, his lungs were closed so the poison didn't get
in. He's chanting it over and over and over, and all of a
sudden, this kid, it's like a freaking weepy moment. I
just got, I need to watch. I just got goose bumps because M
Night can write a script, and they're not all made. Sometimes
he knocks them out of the ballpark. And, you know, I mean,
like, I like Lady in the Water. I like signs. I like what was
the sixth sense? The town was
that one? No, the
village, the village, the village.
Yeah, it was pretty heavy, too. Kurt,
we went to go see that. Me. Kurt and tell he went to go see that.
And Kurt was like, I saw that coming a mile away. You know
what I mean, that they were isolated, the ending, the twist.
Yeah, you know, I could write a country song, probably with
the twist he got. He was
good at the twist, but no, but signs, fantastic. I've, we've
watched
that enough, where I've analyzed it and done some research
online, where it's just like, you know, I don't think he's
talking to
God. I'll have to go back. I just don't even remember it that
well, what to do a reprisal. I just remember the scary seat of
the alien walking by, right onto the childhood of everything.
Yeah,
dude. Well, you know, Do aliens exist? Check this out. If you
have ever seen an octopus? You're like, this cannot be
real, yeah. This is the most unique creature I have ever
seen.
I love it. You know, there was actually in the try that podcast
which I produce, yes, Jim Neil Thrasher kind of went on a
little bit of a rant. And he went on this very impassioned
take on being out in a
tree stand waiting for to kill something, yeah. And he says, he
says, if
you just come out and witness, you know, going from 3am to six,
7am in the morning, and you're sitting there and everything's
coming alive, although everything's waking up, yeah.
And he says, When you see that, he goes, how could you not
believe? How could you not believe that there's a supreme
intelligence that programmed all this? Yes. And it's like, you
know, it's as simple as that. To me, it
was just, it's this, you know, getting up early. I'm trying to
do it way more in my later years, because the morning time
is magical, like our bodies are supposed to be aligned with
sunrise and sunset, and we're supposed to be more locked into
the Earth's rhythms and stuff. It's the most peaceful time. You
get up and you stretch and you hydrate, and you get some
vitamin D right away, and then you pour your coffee, and then
the birds are chirping, and it's just like you feel like anything
is possible, as opposed to, like, sleeping into, like, 1030
and you're like, Oh, my God, I'm behind, and I got a million
things to do, and then the day gets away from you. You know,
I just suck because I'm on the different time, like I'm more
get up at 10, yeah, but three or four nights a week, I might be
working till but you got to get your three in the morning. Got
it
again, they're saying that seven hours is the new magical number,
right? It's divine too. Yeah? Seven is like seven at least
seven. I mean, if you can get eight nice,
I can't do well on less than that. I wish. I need to get
better about the morning things, especially as a parent. People
like, how do you sleep? I'm like, I'm not sleeping in. I'm
working downtown till 3am a couple nights a week, and then
that messes up my schedule for the week. Then you get to bed at
four, yeah? It's like, if you're getting to bed at four, you're
not going to wake up before 10 or
11. You just because you're only getting six hours sleep if you
wake up, and that's if you get the sack as soon as you get
home. Yeah. But after I played a gig, I'm on a high. Like, the
earliest I can get to bed on the road would be 1am at the
earliest, because we get off stage at 11. I'm drenched in
sweat. Yeah, I got to take a shower. I want to hug my
bandmates. Might have a light snack. And then I realized, ramp
down I got, I got a that's the battle to the food after
well, hopefully it's like, it's like the Chick fil A nuggets.
And you're like, This is not bad, just, it's just the
breading, you know? So you do that, and you try not to have
the bread, and
they bring all the pizza, and you're like, I'd rather not. But
then if there, if there's burger and fries, I'm just like, well,
I guess, you know, we do with
the pizza for us. Pizza night is Saturday night when we're going
home on a run. Okay? It's always the last night of a run. So if
we have a lot, if we have a gig on a Sunday night, we're getting
pizza. Yeah, nice, yeah. What a great chat. Do you got? Do you
have a.com
I don't. And I did forever. I mean, like 2000 to, like 2015 I
did. And then I just was, like, nobody's really using a website.
I should probably do it again,
but, but it was the best way for people to get in touch. Super
easy on Instagram,
which is just that dango empire. Same with my Facebook. I kind of
dabble in tick tock, meaning, like I set up a page, but I
don't really use it. But like all, if you find dango empire, I
will get back. I
love the Empire thing. When? When did that come it's really
stupid light bulb moment.
It was like I was with the Christian artist named Chris
rice back in the day, one of my first gigs, and I was just, you
know, dango, and he's and I started doing dango T shirts
kind of as a joke that had kind of my logo on him. And so he
would carry my bag of shirts around. He's like, we'll just
call this the Empire. And he's like, you're dango empire. And I
don't know why it stuck, but I was trying to come up with a
website name for the.com and dango was taken, and it's a
Japanese dumpling, so you couldn't get anything close to
dango. And I was going to do fan of dango. So it was like,
Fandango. We're like, well, it could be a lawsuit, if it does
anything. So it just was dango empire. Was the only thing that
didn't. Oh, and we had dango online, but it looked like
dangoon line.
Yeah, so interesting. Yeah. So I think it's a good idea. Yeah, I
just went with
dango empire. It's not my name. It's not part of my name. I
don't want to be called dango empire, just to clarify any of
that, but my name's dango Kellen, and I don't because
dango is unique enough. I just say dango.
You're the only dango. I know it's usually because that, like,
are you thinking it's like an Irish name or, like a no,
that's actually a name I got in college as a nickname. Oh, since
you're asking, I'll give the quick story there. Yes, two of
us in a punk band when I was a freshman had the same name. He
started calling me dango. It was just like an something we came
up with as a joke by the second year at Belmont. I mean,
professors, everybody would call me that. So before I graduated,
it was just dango, nothing else. You know, my senior recital had
my posters were dango at Belmont. Then I moved to
Seattle, joined this punk band. I get my first drum stick deal.
I'm putting dango on my sticks. I had it on the front of my
drums. I was selling the T shirts. And so by that point,
it's like, well, I'm not going to go buy anything else. That's
what I'm credited as on every record I've ever played on. So I
eventually just legally added because like, well, this is
stupid. If I ever get married and they call me, I don't tell
anybody. No, it's biblical. But why are you prodding? Huh?
It's a fair question. Well,
he told me to go down rabbit hole, right? So I never went to
podcasting school, yeah? So
I've just stuck with dango. It's easy to remember. It's like, oh
yeah, the ball drummer, dango. And now there's a lot of balls.
Biblical name, Abraham,
Jacob. It's Old Testament. You'll hit it if you keep Moses
only
like 5000 names to get there.
Wow, just a few. All right. Well, Dan goes, Hey, just like
show you the power of nicknames. They spread like wildfire. Well,
and
if you don't make it yourself, if it happens and you can't
change it like teachers, nobody knew me as anything else, so
mine in the renowned band Connecticut white bread, I was
known as Gilly. How about that? You didn't know that? Did you
what? No, I
I told Jimmy, can't mention Connecticut white bread in every
episode. Yes, he has to do every other episode. And I did. Yeah,
this was a great chat. So people should look you up at at dango
empire. Sure. That would be wonderful on the socials, for
lessons, for sessions. Go see him. Play around Broadway. Go
see him on tour. Hawthorne Heights, Amber Pacific. Scott
staff, doing it all, man. Thanks for coming. Thank you
so much. An honor, seriously, to be here. And I'm so glad you
could make honor to have you. If I can help anybody else in their
journey, that's part of my goal. So your younger guys new to
town, I'm like, I'll always make time. If they hit me up, you're
doing
manifold. That's right. Thanks, Jim
and to all the listeners, thank you for watching and listening.
Be sure to do me a favor. Great show. Give us five star rating.
Leave us a nice comment. Spread the word. We'd love it. We'll
see you next time. Thanks, Tango, Thanks, Jim.
This has been the rich Redmond show. Subscribe, rate and follow
along at rich redmond.com forward, slash podcasts. You.