1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,280 their familial background, their economic status, 2 00:00:03,280 --> 00:00:07,560 education, background and things of that nature zip code born into. 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,440 So that's why I think equity is a better way 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,960 to look at making the world a better place, because then it takes into 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,640 context the backgrounds in which people come from. 6 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:20,640 If you believe we can change the narrative, 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:22,840 if you believe we can change our communities, 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,840 if you believe we can change the outcomes, then we can change the world. 9 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,480 I'm Rob Richardson. 10 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,480 Welcome to Disruption Now. 11 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:32,720 Welcome to this Russia Now. 12 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,760 I'm your host and moderator, Rob Richardson. 13 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:36,720 With me is Joshua Gundu. 14 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,680 He is the CEO of Stealth Startup. 15 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,280 He's also had a lot of experience with product management 16 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,200 and I believe is also an angel investor. 17 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,000 So many different hats. 18 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,480 He's he's Warren, I believe you also worked with Tik-Tok. 19 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:50,600 So I think there's a lot of things I'd say to our guest. 20 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,880 Yeah, to explore there was from the Midwest moved his way out 21 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,520 and is now finding himself as a as a as a Cali boy in L.A. 22 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,400 so which has been part of his 23 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,240 that that's helped build his network and we're going to talk about that 24 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:05,680 and everything he's done there 25 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,960 and hopefully gain some type of advice about what to do, what what 26 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,240 not to do and how we can learn as founders and investors in the space. 27 00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:15,560 How are you doing today, man? 28 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,840 I'm good. I'm good. Thank you for having me on the show. 29 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,240 Always love to chat with folks 30 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,560 all across, you know, especially from the Midwest as me being from Michigan. 31 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,520 Always good to connect with other folks who have Midwest roots in the 32 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:28,840 in the ecosystem. 33 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:29,440 Absolutely. 34 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,200 Well, if you can everybody on this show, please subscribe or subscribe 35 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,640 to us on YouTube that like button and then also hit the subscribe button. 36 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,440 You can also of course, on us on disruption. Now, 37 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,520 we love to have conversations that are disruptive, 38 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,120 that disrupt common narratives and constructs. 39 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,080 So I want you to feel comfortable to be as controversial. 40 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,280 You usually are on on Twitter. 41 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,560 So I know you're not going to have any problem with us, man. 42 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,440 No, exactly. 43 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,320 All right. So let's get right to it. 44 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,080 So you you had this statement on LinkedIn, and I want to 45 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,400 I want to talk about this statement and what it means to you and why you said it. 46 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,680 You said, I am for equity because equity starts with everyone. 47 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,360 Why is that statement important for you to put out and what does that mean to you? 48 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,840 Yeah, I think it's the reason I say equity. 49 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,120 The reason I use the word equity as often as I do, because people think 50 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:22,080 that like, it's like everything equal, like equality, like 5050. 51 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:23,760 You get the sense, you get the chance. 52 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,560 The thing about equity is that everybody doesn't start from the same place. 53 00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:30,200 So to make things 54 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,120 more, 55 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,480 even across the board, you have to think about the advantages 56 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,440 and disadvantages that people come from, whether it's like 57 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,120 their familial background, their economic status, 58 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,400 education, background and things of that nature zip code born into. 59 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,280 So that's why I think equity is a better way 60 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,800 to look at making the world a better place, because then it takes into 61 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,800 context the backgrounds in which people come from. 62 00:02:56,920 --> 00:03:01,280 Yes, but something that I believe one thing that sparked our conversation 63 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,880 and kind of got us talking on there on Twitter, 64 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,640 you made a reference and I'm not going to get it exactly right, 65 00:03:07,640 --> 00:03:12,680 but you made a reference that people often like to 66 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,120 romanticize, that they pull themselves up by their bootstraps. 67 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,720 They came from this struggling, hard background, 68 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,800 and people seem to be romanticized with that. 69 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:23,920 Like, I've seen that. 70 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:27,920 But talk about why you see that as an issue. 71 00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:29,040 I know I do. 72 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,040 And how should we think about approaching that in terms of a 73 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,600 a moment of self-awareness with the ecosystem? 74 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,360 Yeah, The reason the first reason that I 75 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,600 see it as an issue, because it usually comes from those 76 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,720 who did not have to grow up in economic insecurity. 77 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,680 It comes from those who came from either middle or upper middle, mainly 78 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,240 upper middle, especially in the tech ecosystem backgrounds. 79 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,680 And they were like, you know, you know, great hustle, 80 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,800 you know, coming from nothing, things of that nature. 81 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,560 And I think they romanticize it because they think, I missed out on something. 82 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,360 I could have had more more of that hustle, more that grit. 83 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,200 Like, you know, like they like they're jealous of poverty or something, 84 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,200 which is like always going to be jealous of change. 85 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:13,360 Exactly. 86 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,800 Jealous about nothing like it was. 87 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,240 It's always weird for me when those who didn't experience it 88 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,080 romanticize it, because those who experience it do not romanticize it. 89 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:26,920 They talk about the very real things that are when you grow up 90 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:31,320 in economic insecurity or unstable environments, 91 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,680 that does a lot of damage and it does more damage than it does good. 92 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,120 And I know that folks in our ecosystem like to romanticize hustling 93 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,440 and all that kind of stuff, hustling to get a like a an a 94 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,240 your AP world class is fundamentally different 95 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,800 than having to hustle to put food on the table. 96 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:50,160 Right. 97 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,880 And I think they look at equate those two hustles, 98 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,560 but you can't equate the two houses because their one is 99 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,120 an achievement in an accelerated course 100 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,760 and one is literally just doing what you need to do to survive, 101 00:05:02,840 --> 00:05:06,320 which also can take away the energy you might have going to be able 102 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,160 to put into getting a good grade in that class. 103 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,320 Yeah, I really think people 104 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:14,640 have struggled with this 105 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,640 because they struggle with 106 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,200 things being given to them and they feel like they'll be looked down upon. 107 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:22,480 This is my perspective 108 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,360 of the privilege they have, and this is not a singular privilege 109 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,520 I'm talking about because I believe privilege lives on a spectrum, right? 110 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,160 There are multiple ways to have privilege 100%. 111 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:32,880 Right. 112 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,880 And that's what this conversation gets. So 113 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,600 divisive when I don't think it has to be if people look at it. 114 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,320 But I understand why it does become that, because the self identity of a person, 115 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,720 people like to believe that they've done everything 116 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,840 without any help because they romanticize with that. 117 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:52,680 And that, I think, is utter bullshit, right? 118 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:57,120 Because we don't we don't do anything by ourselves 119 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,080 and often is the system. Yes. 120 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,200 You have to work like I'm not divorcing work from it. 121 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,120 But that to me is like common sense lack. 122 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,920 Of course you have to work like and I think people overemphasized 123 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,360 how hard they worked to romanticize about where they came from 124 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,880 because they don't like seeing themselves as privileged. 125 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,640 But I heard this and 126 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,840 Arlan Arlyn, I forgot Hamilton's name out of Hamilton. 127 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:20,360 Yes. Thank you. 128 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,880 So I don't know why I forgot that, but she was on my show discussing privilege 129 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,920 and she's she really stated it the best I've heard it stated. 130 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:32,040 She said privilege is just something you have is not a bad thing, right? 131 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,440 It's only bad if you lack self-awareness 132 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,440 or you abuse it, which is the problem, right? 133 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,160 Because people in this space are like, I got here, I went to Stanford. 134 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,320 Why can't you all do that? 135 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,600 And I found a way to make it. 136 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,600 And they really under undervalue 137 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,880 the ecosystem that they grew up in, the network that they had around them. 138 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,480 So I believe it goes to that. I agree with that. 139 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,120 I think that's a really good way to look at privilege. 140 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,520 And I know people like for some reason don't 141 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,520 like to know that they were 142 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,880 given certain legs up that those did not have because like like you said, 143 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,680 people like to assume that it diminishes the work that they put in. 144 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,440 But I always believe that 145 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,720 opportunities and the way that people like what successes 146 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,360 it's based off like the privileges you were born into, the systems 147 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,720 that you were born into, as well as the personal choices that you made. 148 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,480 And depending on who you are and what you're doing, 149 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,640 all three of those can be weighted differently. 150 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,360 Like, you know, on, you know, with Guy RAZ, you always ask people, 151 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,960 is it luck or was it hard work that helped you get to where you're you're at? 152 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:47,600 And I'm always most into folks that realize that 153 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:48,280 luck and 154 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,280 privilege do have a material impact. 155 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,720 So who gets to even work in this ecosystem in the first place? 156 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:56,520 Absolutely. 157 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,800 And privilege more than anything else. 158 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:03,280 Yes, you can, because you can persist long enough if you have support. 159 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,240 I can think of so many examples. 160 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,240 But let's take Amazon, right? 161 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,520 Jeff Bezos didn't come from a nothing background that neither did Bill Gates. 162 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,200 Neither did Steve Jobs. No. 163 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,400 All those folks and lots of lots of support, 164 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,800 they got early access to the knowledge and and you speak to this often 165 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,480 because we have a lot of people that are trying to downplay 166 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,320 college like, well, look, all these founders didn't 167 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,360 go to college like you're not Steve Jobs, you're not Bill Gates. 168 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,440 If you have maybe if you were 169 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,320 if you if if right now your parents gave you access to advance A.I. 170 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,320 knowledge ten years ago, you probably do not need to go to college. 171 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,160 Right. Exactly. 172 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:44,560 Unless you're that person. 173 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:45,880 You do need to go to that. Right. 174 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,640 So I do think there there is some perspective there. 175 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:49,720 What are your thoughts on that? 176 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,360 Yeah, I think the thing about downplaying college to me 177 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:58,000 is specifically in the tech ecosystem is the anti institution 178 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,680 mantra that people tend to have Now a lot of tech folks back 179 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:05,480 then, you know, when folks are coming out, they're like, 180 00:09:05,560 --> 00:09:08,600 we're the outsiders, We're like anti this and say that. 181 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,600 But when you look at the backgrounds of VC backed founders, operators 182 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,960 at hypergrowth companies, operators at larger, larger venture firms 183 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,040 as well as big tech, you know, they all have college backgrounds 184 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,720 and if they didn't go to one of the most elite college, like the elite colleges, 185 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,360 the thing that people don't notice is that a lot of them 186 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,960 went to very expensive private schools for high school. 187 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,200 So like, hey, yeah, I did. 188 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,240 I skipped college. 189 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,480 But you also went to a high school that cost $30,000 a year. 190 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:37,080 Yeah. 191 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,360 So it's that is the nuances and the pattern matching that 192 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:45,280 I've personally seen, which is why I'm like, yes, higher education is, 193 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:50,080 is if higher education didn't matter, then you wouldn't see venture firms 194 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,080 as well as founders and intros even being made say, 195 00:09:54,320 --> 00:10:00,320 they studied here, they did this, giving them some type of credibility 196 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,160 during an introduction or during a conversation. 197 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,440 So as much as people like see, especially in tech, 198 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,280 like to downplay, like why go to college, why why would I 199 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:14,440 you know, go to go to college to to get a degree? 200 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,680 And then in the in the ecosystem, if you really pay attention, 201 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:22,240 that whole dropout narrative is actually not as apparent as people want it to be. 202 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,720 Even in engineering specifically, people talk about it from the lens 203 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:30,280 of founding a company or working an engineer, and people did not know this. 204 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,960 There's a lot more functions that go into running companies than being an engineer 205 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,080 or founding a company or like being a founder. 206 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,880 And now we see bad because VC backed founders usually have pedigree 207 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:46,680 on the education and academic education and professional or one of the two. 208 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,720 So that's kind of my thing with the college thing in tech 209 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,560 is just that they're anti establishment and they're using 210 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:55,920 they're using the anti-establishment political belief. 211 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:01,480 They have to push down and push away the importance of institutions, 212 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,520 although these are the same people who are sending those kids, 213 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,200 their kids, to these institutions. 214 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,080 Yeah, I actually think it's a more it's it's more cynical for some 215 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,000 because I also think they're pushing 216 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,000 a narrative to people to make them feel as if, 217 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,480 you know, they can be like them if they embrace these 218 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,240 this kind of mentality and it and it kind of it pushes to me 219 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:23,560 part of a political agenda. 220 00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:25,200 What people want are rhetoric. 221 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,240 And for people to believe that, you know, I too can do this, 222 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:30,880 I can be just like that person. 223 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,480 And not being realistic about what how that person actually obtained that. 224 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:39,360 I'm a I'm a very I'm a I'm a great believer in, you know, anything's 225 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:40,240 possible. Yes. 226 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,440 And overcoming barriers, I have that belief fundamentally. 227 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,360 And while at the same time I have to believe that 228 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:47,360 a lot of people that are pushing 229 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,840 the narratives of what they did, they're not being honest. 230 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:52,000 No, they're not. 231 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,000 They're not telling you their familial background. 232 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,200 They're not telling you their household income. 233 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,080 They're not giving you the context of who they knew. 234 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,360 Like, you know, we talk about the common sense wins. 235 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,440 You know, Paul Graham from see knew them when they were teenagers. 236 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:06,440 Exactly. Yeah. 237 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,120 You know, and they both went to it's great schools and things of that nature. 238 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,000 I think they both jumped out of Harvard and MIT. 239 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,000 But people focus on that versus like, 240 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,320 how did Paul Graham know some teenagers in Scotland? 241 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,400 How did how what networks were these kids in? 242 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:26,080 So it's like it's a I wish people were more transparent about their backgrounds. 243 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,120 But I think, like you said earlier, 244 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,440 the more transparent people are about their privileges, 245 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,880 the more they feel like that will take away from the way people view their work. 246 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:35,240 Yep, I agree. 247 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,360 But look, I'm a person that like I didn't grow up rich, but I had no poverty zero. 248 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,040 So we were middle class moving up middle class later 249 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,480 and I ran for office for a brief stint. 250 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,800 And I remember some people tried to, to, to, to kind of use that against me. 251 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:53,600 And the thing is, I'm like, I don't know. 252 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,240 I thought as black people, it's better. 253 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,680 Our goal was to not just focus on poverty, but to get out. 254 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:00,880 Yeah, it's not. 255 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,240 And that's not it's not to look down upon people 256 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,560 that didn't have to go through poverty because my parents both get opportunity. 257 00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:08,480 I'm not saying they were better than anybody else, 258 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,560 but they got opportunity, worked hard and were able to position, 259 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,680 you know, people after them, me 260 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:18,440 and their kids to be better off like we have to get out of that, 261 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,560 Like we have to get out of that mentality and I think it is prevalent. 262 00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:24,160 Do you see that and how do you challenge it if you do? 263 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,320 Yeah, I think for me, I think that goes into like you know, 264 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,320 the the age old like 265 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,680 how black are you and people attributing too much of blackness 266 00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:38,040 to vulnerability, economic insecurity, instability 267 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:42,160 and having to get it by any means necessary, you know, 268 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:43,360 it would be greater. 269 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,000 It would be great if people started like leaving that 270 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,200 and not assuming that you are less or more part of the community 271 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,560 based on how much economic insecurity or instability 272 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,720 did you experience growing up or in your early adulthood? 273 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,600 Yeah, absolutely. I agree. 274 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,720 But let's let's let's go down this road and challenge this a little bit. 275 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,680 Right? So 276 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,600 we talked about privilege being on a spectrum. 277 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,040 And if I had to say, if you are a VC funded, 278 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,040 you tend to be it's not just that you had a great idea. 279 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,280 It's not that it's not just it's it's really just it's really that actually 280 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,720 it's usually that you had a good network and you were in a system 281 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,520 that gave you the opportunity to get this, 282 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,520 I believe, heart, you know, heart stop. 283 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,320 What advice do you give people that maybe, you know, when you add the privilege 284 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,520 to a spectrum, you know, obviously, if if people even if you're black, you 285 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,840 go to one of those rich high schools and you go and you go to Stanford, 286 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,160 you probably going to be connected in that system. 287 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,280 But let's say you're in the Midwest. 288 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:43,600 Let's say you went to a good school. 289 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,440 You know, you went to Michigan State, I went to Universal, Cincinnati. 290 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,000 And you're starting you're starting a business. 291 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,880 What advice do you give people if they don't have that will say, the VC 292 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,080 infrastructure kind of going for them? 293 00:14:54,080 --> 00:15:00,200 How should they go about this, this this journey that is entrepreneurship? 294 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,920 Is the goal to 295 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,960 eventually raise or does that is that not the what's the what's the the 296 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,040 that's actually a fair question. 297 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,560 So you want to build a scalable business that is eventually venture back. 298 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,120 What like what advice would you give folks not just to start a business, 299 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:18,240 Nothing wrong. That's a good thing 300 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,000 to like start a business, figure out a way to make profit. 301 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,760 But building a scalable business 302 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,640 where you where you're using a technology, an idea that you believe can scale, 303 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,240 how would you how would you advise a a founder coming up? 304 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:32,800 Yeah. 305 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,840 So for me, I think the way that I typically 306 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,960 give advice on this one is you can de-risk two things. 307 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,960 You can either de-risk yourself or de-risk the business 308 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,880 when it comes down to just generally raising capital in general. 309 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:46,880 If you don't 310 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:51,000 come from that background, I really recommend trying 311 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,760 to divest yourself as much as possible because the metrics will always move. 312 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,600 That's What do you mean by de-risk yourself? 313 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,360 The way about de-risking yourself is one thing that I've seen 314 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,680 a lot of people do is showcase their knowledge 315 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,800 in the most natural way that it is to them. 316 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,600 So if you're someone who can write long form, 317 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,320 write long form, if you're someone that can write short form, get on Twitter. 318 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:19,160 If you're more audio in focus, create a podcast, things of that nature. 319 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,720 So people showcasing your genius will de-risk you because, 320 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,720 hey, maybe you didn't go to that school or maybe you didn't go to that. 321 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:26,360 I love that. 322 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,720 That's a bar showcasing your genius will de-risk you. 323 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:31,720 Yeah, that's good. Go ahead. 324 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,720 So that's kind of the thing that I that I've seen work for. 325 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,000 A bunch of folks who are outside of the ecosystem is like, Hey, 326 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,960 you might not have the company markers or the education markers 327 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,240 that are typically VC backed, but if you put your ideas out enough 328 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,040 to the world in a in, the key thing here is in a format 329 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,840 that you can consistently do, you can't just do it like one or two times. 330 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,800 You have to really put the reps in. 331 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,920 So then eventually people are listening, reading or watching 332 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,160 and then like, okay, like this, this guy or girl knows 333 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,080 exactly what they're talking about, 334 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,120 and then they start even really caring about like where this person 335 00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:12,000 went to school or what company they work, that they know that, 336 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,480 this person could have gone this or done this, 337 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,640 but they're in choose they may have, you know, circumstances, where have you. 338 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,480 But that's the way that I've seen people 339 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,120 deal with themselves quite a bit, is via the consent lens. 340 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,640 If you don't want to do that, then I would recommend 341 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,640 on the work side, which is another practical one, is to just look 342 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:36,720 to work at a company that you believe will get acquired or go public. 343 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,440 That's a more nuanced one because you want to then look at the job 344 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,360 opportunity as an investment opportunity, like, okay, if you want to. 345 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,440 Like I worked at a company called Burner 346 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,920 some years ago, second phone number for any use case 347 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,880 In my thinking, walking in there when I was leading product there was that 348 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:00,040 I was like, okay, this company could potentially get bought by a telco 349 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,680 or want to be like domain sites like Squarespace or go daddy to power 350 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,200 another lever lever of communication when someone's creating a business, right? 351 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,320 So that was the way that I was looking at that. 352 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,200 And I think if people started looking at the world of startups, 353 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:16,600 not from the lens of like, 354 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,200 okay, what are they going to pay me and what's my equity, but more 355 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,800 so do you really see this company working out in the future? 356 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,000 If you do, then great. 357 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,560 If you don't and it's just getting your foot in the door also great. 358 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,800 But the way you really are going to be de-risk yourself in this industry 359 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,440 outside of the education thing and outside of working at like a large, big tech 360 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,600 company is really figuring out what company do 361 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,280 you think get acquired, even if it doesn't get acquired for a lot of cash. 362 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,640 Being a someone who worked at a place that did 363 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,000 exit gives you a certain level of social capital in the ecosystem. 364 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,000 So how do you go about making that you've had that experience clearly? 365 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,520 How do you go about making that that evaluation? 366 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,760 So the de-risking yourself, you've talked about that in terms of essentially 367 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,840 leveraging your genius, which I feel like you should do universally anyway. 368 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,960 But how do you evaluate a company that you think 369 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,360 can actually have the potential to, 370 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,920 you know, to to actually have an exit? 371 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:15,360 Yeah. 372 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:18,760 I mean, for me, if I was someone who was still like working 373 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,760 as an operator, I personally be looking at companies. 374 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,240 This is my own personal thing. 375 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,240 Any company that I see that is being built 376 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,400 upon a current policy change 377 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,680 I think has a lot of a lot of potential. 378 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,440 Like one of them I think is going to be big. 379 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,560 And if people see it, please jump on it because I think it might be a thing. 380 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:43,200 There's a lot of decriminalization and legalization around psychedelics. 381 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:43,600 Okay. 382 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,160 So I do see a world where there's marketplaces and consumer brands 383 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:48,800 built around psychedelics, 384 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,720 similar like the marketplaces that you might see for marijuana. 385 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,160 What they want is weed maps, things of that nature. 386 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,560 We had Jewel out here with the with the tobacco. 387 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,280 Unfortunately, that was a and that was a different thing. 388 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:03,000 Know psychedelics are I mean, yeah. 389 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,640 So they already did in Oregon. 390 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,120 They're putting a bill up here in California. 391 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,720 So it's like, where do you think the puck is going around policy? 392 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,760 Because I think the biggest companies in the future are going to be able to see 393 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,320 all these policy changes, whether it's relaxing or adding new ones 394 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,560 and a lot of technology creation and opportunity, financial opportunity. 395 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,440 We built upon those. So for me, that's fascinating. 396 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,200 For most people, I think think of like, what do you what are you seeing 397 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,600 and where do you think the puck is going and see if you can find companies 398 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,200 that are building around. Where do you think the puck is going? 399 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,520 I mean, I've heard that analogy actually has someone on my show 400 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,320 talked about see where the puck is going, 401 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,400 But I didn't hear it, which is interesting around policy, 402 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,360 which is a fascinating way to kind of think about it. 403 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,600 Right, in terms of where you think policy is going. 404 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,000 And and then because that's that is very, very important, because that does make 405 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,960 that does make or break and it makes often industries and opportunities, 406 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,200 which is interesting. Right? 407 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,720 Actually that's I didn't think about it from that perspective And psychedelics 408 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,720 there's I didn't think about it from that there's obviously still weed and how 409 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,360 and how drinks are going to be done within 410 00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:14,240 we like I said, one of my show that actually had where you can 411 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,040 essentially get high up a drink without without getting a hangover 412 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,600 by using like marijuana, which is fascinating. Right. 413 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,720 And the guy I have to look up, I forgot his name right now, but he had a 414 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:24,880 his product 415 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,320 does that and he's in California and a couple other places but 416 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,760 you don't get the hangover and you and and you can use weed 417 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,880 you don't have any of the other health side effects, but you still get 418 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,920 that kind of feeling of that high that people kind of want to have. 419 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,400 So that's very interesting. 420 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:40,920 Like, I never thought of it like a 421 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,640 I never thought about it from a policy point of view 422 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,680 in terms of the opportunities I'm looking at that way. 423 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,440 It's a very unique way of looking at it. 424 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,080 It's actually part of the reason why I'm in this strange world that I know 425 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:51,480 you've had. You've been a critic of it. 426 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,240 I talked to a little bit about it, like Web3 Like what your and your 427 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:56,440 as a product person. 428 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:01,280 I can understand why you have it because we're horrible at product design. 429 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:03,800 But do you see what do you see there? 430 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,520 If you don't have a thought in it, you don't have to. 431 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,720 But in terms of like a policy opportunity, in terms of that, 432 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,640 when it comes to the inherent blockchain technology and not not 433 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:18,560 I think obviously trading nfts as anything that that is dead. 434 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,480 But in terms of actually using the ledger 435 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,160 and blockchain as a policy, do you see opportunity there? 436 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,040 And if not, you know, we can, we can speak to that. 437 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,920 Yeah, I'm I'm not super like, you know, I'm as you know, I'm not super 438 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,040 deep in the world of work being crypto, but what I've gotten from 439 00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:38,600 at least blockchain in the whole like, you know, saving things on chain 440 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:39,840 and all that kind of stuff. 441 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,640 From what I've gotten from my own outside looking in thing, it seems like there's 442 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,400 epic applications around HIPA compliance 443 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:55,960 and the world of health when it comes down to data records, data storage and 444 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:56,840 leveraging that 445 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,840 data over time and knowing that this data is the right data, things of that nature. 446 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,800 So I've heard that there's going to be 447 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,240 a bunch of applications in the world of health. 448 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,480 Yeah, that's what I, that's what I've heard, but I haven't 449 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,280 heard anything outside of that. 450 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,440 As you know, I'm not as deep. No, they're not as deep. 451 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,200 So I don't have to spend a lot of time there. 452 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,200 I would like to talk about your, your, your, 453 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,320 your feelings about engineering 454 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,800 versus product design. 455 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,960 If you were advising a founder, 456 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,480 would you advise them to be better at coding or better at design? 457 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,200 I think I know the answer, but I'd like to hear definitely design. 458 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:32,280 Okay. Why? 459 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:33,040 Definitely design, 460 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,400 Because you'll be able to showcase exactly what you're thinking to people. 461 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,960 And you wouldn't might make you wouldn't have to pay for a designer. 462 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,000 So that's also a thing. It's a money saving thing too. 463 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,040 But me, I don't have the deepest design 464 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,040 background like I just do wireframes via or figma. 465 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:51,880 And then I illustrated, I make it 466 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,880 a clickable prototype via Marvel. 467 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,880 But yeah, I think, you know, you see people like, 468 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,400 people learn how to code, learn how to code, learn how to code. 469 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,320 I'm like, okay, but if you can't show people 470 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,320 what you're actually trying to build, whether it can work or not, 471 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,240 you can get you can get so much more across the people 472 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:11,640 when they can see the thing 473 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,720 versus when you're abstractly talking about the thing. Yes. 474 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,120 So I think I hope that more folks are 475 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,720 it doesn't have to be you have to be the greatest designer in the world. 476 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,480 You just have to be able to show people what you're talking about. 477 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,040 Yeah, I agree. 478 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,640 I agree. So we talk about startups. 479 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,600 What would you say startups? 480 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,600 What are the what's the most normal reason for failure? 481 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:35,200 Because one of the things 482 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,360 we're going to talk about is people talk about all the reasons for success. 483 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:41,160 But again, a lot of it has to do with timing their networks. 484 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,400 Let's talk about failure. 485 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,040 What do you think is the top reason for failure 486 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,600 of believing that the market is bigger than it is 487 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,840 because you sold it to some of your friends 488 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,600 and some of their companies and some of their buddies? 489 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,960 Because, you know, a lot of our stuff, you know, that's a that was a web3 problem. 490 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:56,760 Yeah. Yeah. 491 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,240 So it's like that's 492 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,760 that's the thing that I've seen a lot like especially on the coasts. 493 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,520 People think because people bought up you're thinking California about a thing 494 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,720 in New York that the same thing will happen in the state of Michigan 495 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,360 or the same thing will happen across the country 496 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:17,080 and tastes and preferences and how people like to do things 497 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,600 and also the work that they do and the style of work. 498 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,600 So many things. 499 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,200 People think the market is bigger 500 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,760 because the people who are like them, like it. 501 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,160 But how many people like you are in the in the in the US 502 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,560 and then the globe, one that comes to mind for me all the time on the when it comes 503 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,360 on a consumer facing software is those who are looking to build companies 504 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,840 around people that like move all the time or traveling on flights all the time. 505 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,040 I'm like, how many flights do you think the average American takes? 506 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:53,080 And the average American only lives roughly 15, 12 to 15 miles away 507 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,080 from the city, one which their mother was when they were born. 508 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,840 So building for 509 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,680 building for trends that are very insular to the group 510 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:08,080 you identify with end up being the worst consumer businesses that I've seen. 511 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,600 Which is very hard, though, right? 512 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,920 Because it's like, So how do you get yourself 513 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,640 from being in the bubble, from being external? 514 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:21,120 Like, is there any habits or things that one can do to go beyond that? 515 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,080 I actually think you can you can you can take your product that look 516 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,840 that is internal facing and figure out a way to lose a solution 517 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,520 that is actually more consumer facing and friendly. 518 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,640 If you get out of the bubble and figure out how to focus. 519 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,800 But I found being doing that simple thing is very hard, right? 520 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,600 Because people say, Yeah, so what do you as a as a person experience in product? 521 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,280 What do you recommend? Are some 522 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:46,200 institutional 523 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,840 habits that a founder or an organization 524 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,880 could take to prevent them from seeing the consumer bubble? 525 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,520 The first thing is knowing what bubble you're in. 526 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:57,040 Like really? 527 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,440 I really being real with the kind of bubble that you're in. 528 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:00,800 Like me, I live in L.A. 529 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,280 before here, I lived in D.C. 530 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,920 and also knowing that the people that I come across are folks who are VC backed 531 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:13,280 founders, operators at Big Tech's VCs, all that kind of stuff, and realizing how 532 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,520 small of a portion of the work 533 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,680 of the even the white collar workforce that even is. 534 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:20,560 Yeah. 535 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,200 So I know being aware of the bubble 536 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,200 you're in and then seeking out 537 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,360 seeking out perspectives outside of the bubble that you're in. 538 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:32,640 So for myself, I listen to This American Life quite often 539 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,480 and they talk about things that do are not attributed 540 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,840 to like tech ecosystem and VC backed this and all that kind of stuff. 541 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:48,040 I also like to listen to business podcasts that are not from the lens of software. 542 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,680 Like I listen to one about pet food earlier today. 543 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,240 Okay, 544 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:55,400 I was listening to that. 545 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,480 It was like this fresh pet pet food company 546 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,360 that was like born in six and is still around now in 2023. 547 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,120 So for me, it's like knowing you're 548 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,240 knowing the bubble year and finding whether it's podcasts, 549 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,600 I find content consumption that is via podcasts or books. 550 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,640 The easiest way to open my mind. 551 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,640 That's the way that I always did it when I was a kid, is is able to do that. 552 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,360 And then also leveraging the Internet in the way of knowing 553 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:26,280 that, knowing the kind of people you usually follow or usually listen to 554 00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:30,000 and being willing to follow or listen to someone 555 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,920 that is not a carbon copy of the people that you typically download. 556 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,160 So that's I think those are the those are the three things that I've done 557 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,280 which helped me like reach outside of the bubble 558 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,280 that we're in because as you know, it's super easy for us in our ecosystem 559 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,120 to stay in our bubble and not feel a need to be outside our bubble. 560 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,240 And if our bubble rocks with it, then everybody should. 561 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,000 But then you realize how small your bubble actually is. 562 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:55,880 No, it's been a problem. 563 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,800 I saw that problem when I was in policy and politics when I ran. 564 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,160 I mean, particularly, you know, those who are in office. 565 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,240 This particularly, I can just say it is more on the Democratic side 566 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,240 because I think the Republicans tend to do this better 567 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,760 not not not necessarily complement, but they tend to do it better 568 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,640 in terms of being able to communicate a simple message, 569 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,840 Yeah, it is a company because they're able to get shit done. 570 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,840 They are, as I'm understanding what their people are saying. 571 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,000 And I found that a lot of Democratic legislators, 572 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,920 you know, they make it very complicated. 573 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,640 And so one of my favorite books with product design 574 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,120 you've probably read is insanely simple. Have you read that book? 575 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,360 I have not read that, but I've heard it's a good one. 576 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:34,000 It's a great one. 577 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,520 But there's a simple there's a lot in there, he said. 578 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,160 Like it, you know, it's simplicity is an all or nothing proposition. 579 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,520 Either everything is simple or everything is complicated. 580 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,320 And the reason why is challenge. 581 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,560 It is challenging actually, to keep making things simple, 582 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,480 because you have to you have to keep coming back to that. 583 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,320 Like I've this is hard. It's really hard 584 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:54,360 and I've try to do it every day. 585 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,200 My business is it's very, very difficult. 586 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:57,880 Right. 587 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,320 And and I think, you know, so legislators get into the mode where they 588 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,440 they they think that everybody thinks around them like that. 589 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:06,360 They understand that. 590 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:07,840 They think people understand what they're saying. 591 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,840 And most of the time they're just speaking in Chinese to people like they have. 592 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,400 They're not living this life that you live. 593 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,360 They have no idea what the hell you're talking about. 594 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,000 You have to break it down at a simple, like seventh grade level 595 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:22,480 that people can understand and repeat it 10,000 times. 596 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,640 Like, that's the only way you get it. 597 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,000 But I found business is the same way, and I think some of that is going to help me. 598 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,520 That goes back to your point of 599 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,600 de-risking yourself and you repeat a message over and over again. 600 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,840 It's knowing like where your genius is finding that 601 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,840 make it as simple and just repeat it over and over and over again. 602 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:40,120 Right? 603 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,880 And that's the but that is the that is the hard part to do. 604 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,120 So I agree. 605 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:45,480 All right. 606 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,040 So I want to talk a little about investing that I have a couple of round up 607 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:49,480 questions to it. 608 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,040 So investing, what's the most important thing 609 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,680 you look for when you invest in a business? 610 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,960 The most important thing I look for 611 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,600 is exposure to the problem space that you're building in. 612 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,520 Now, this doesn't have to come from a traditional job. 613 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:07,880 It does not have to come 614 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,760 from an educational experience, but it can come from one of those two. 615 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,200 Or could it came, Hey, you're around this kind of thing growing up. 616 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,560 You know, you you helped out your your your uncle, 617 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,760 your aunt, your mom, your brother, your sister with something. 618 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,960 It's just like, where did you get the exposure to the problem space? 619 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,760 I don't want the exposure to the problem 620 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,520 space to come from something that you read online. 621 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,120 This is something that I think a lot of people tend to do 622 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,200 is like I like lived experience with it. 623 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:41,000 If you haven't had lived experience with it, then I'm less so 624 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,440 gung ho for the solution that you came up with because you never lived it. 625 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,800 So if you've lived it, then you have a you have your more than likely 626 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,320 have a unique insight that cannot be found from just reading a blog post 627 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,320 or a book or read, or listen to 628 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,560 a podcast about the problems in the world. 629 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,240 It's great when you've experienced some of the problems in the world, 630 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,520 whether it's like you, you've seen them, you volunteered in them. 631 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:06,840 So that's kind of the way I look at it. 632 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,640 Like what problem did you have? 633 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,720 What exposure to get to the problem space, whether it's academic, an actual job 634 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,840 or growing up or volunteering. 635 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,120 There's a lot of ways to expose yourself to problem spaces that are not typically, 636 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,840 this is my 9 to 5 job. 637 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:22,280 Got it? 638 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,280 No, it makes total sense. Makes sense. So. 639 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,480 All right, what do what do founders get most wrong? 640 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,320 Most often you think 641 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,200 that VC backed founders? 642 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:37,280 Yes, sure. 643 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:38,080 Okay. 644 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,360 Founders in general, people are building things in general, 645 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,400 believing that 646 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,560 capital raised or not going to the capital. 647 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:48,680 Right. 648 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:53,760 Because I want this to be more applicable than just people who raised money 649 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,600 believing, believing 650 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,360 too much in the solution and less so in the problem that they're solving. 651 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,440 I think a lot of people who, you know, 652 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,440 you you probably seen in many a time as well happened to myself. 653 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,840 Yes. How how tied we can get to the solution 654 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,600 that we came up with versus being like, okay, yeah, 655 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,840 this solution might not work, but I'm more married. 656 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,000 So making sure that the problem gets solved versus the solution I came with is 657 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,160 this is a solution that solves the problem. 658 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:25,120 So you got to get tired. 659 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,280 You got to get very married to the problem 660 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,320 that you're looking to reduce versus the solution that you came up with. 661 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:33,960 And I think it's hard for us to do that 662 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,600 because it's like, okay, I launched my first thing. 663 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,000 We we were seeing some traction. 664 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:40,920 I feel like this should work. 665 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,200 I find this to work because people wrap too much of their identities into the 666 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,120 the companies that they rob too much of their identities into the company. 667 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:49,640 I think that's the problem, right? 668 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:50,520 So you can't make an IT 669 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,400 it's hard to make objective decisions when you feel like the decisions you're 670 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,840 making are making decisions about your own identity. 671 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,240 Yeah, And I've had a 672 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,760 a wakeup call with my identity because you shouldn't tie your identity 673 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,880 to actually even what you do yet to tie your identity to the values you have. 674 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,760 Those agree that'll make your life a lot easier. 675 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:10,880 And I didn't realize that. 676 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,040 And I think when people realize that, 677 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,040 it makes it easier to move off of an idea or a career path, 678 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,400 or when the athlete has to retire, they realize like, my identity isn't this. 679 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:21,880 That's not who I am. 680 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,240 Exactly. I definitely agree with that. 681 00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:25,000 So that's kind of how I look at it. 682 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:25,400 All right. 683 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:26,960 So how about investors? 684 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:27,640 What's the most important? 685 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,720 What do investors get wrong? Most often 686 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,080 believing that if they are 687 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,760 not the customer for their product, then there's no customer for the product. 688 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,280 A lot of them do that. 689 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,280 A lot of folks are like, I wouldn't use their my friends wouldn't 690 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,280 use it, my partner wouldn't use it, my kids might not use it. 691 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,640 Then there's like not a market for it. 692 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,640 But that comes back to the insularity of people's networks, right? 693 00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:55,680 So I think that's the biggest thing that investors get wrong, is like, 694 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,320 if I wouldn't buy it, then who would buy it? 695 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,960 That's not true because everyone is not usually, 696 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,880 which is why you need more equity in an investment. 697 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,480 What's more, things would happen. 698 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,080 But we have a dominant perspective that comes from a closed network 699 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:16,000 is not only a people only think white male, they think that that's part of it, 700 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,160 but it's also a closed system in terms of where they went to school, 701 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,160 who their network is. 702 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,320 So it becomes a very like a very, really narrow view 703 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,400 of what innovation can look like when we're serving 704 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,120 a very diverse population in this world, more diverse than we ever have. 705 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,840 And there's so many underserved markets, I believe, because of that 100%. 706 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,120 I definitely agree with you. 707 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,320 Yeah. Okay. All right. 708 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:38,720 A little bit. Talk about your career a little bit. 709 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:42,880 So what's the name of your company is Stealth Startup. 710 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:44,280 And I read something about it. 711 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:49,040 It's the it's like the intersection of like software. 712 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,880 And so I think I can give you tell me. 713 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,320 So the company 714 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,920 we haven't released this publicly, so I'll just still talk about it 715 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,600 in the abstract. I'll just. Okay. okay. Here it is. 716 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,880 So the company is not really cause those that are we're just working and stuff. 717 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,080 So the core of what we're looking to do 718 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,120 is looking to reduce the labor shortage that we see in the trades. 719 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,720 Think HVAC, plumbing, electrician, clean energy, things of that nature. 720 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,000 That's where I have to stop, though. 721 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,520 Okay, on like what we're doing. 722 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,520 But we will be people learn 723 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,920 more about it at the end of next month when we're actually live. 724 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:26,680 Okay. All right. 725 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,440 That'll be very interesting because there is a 726 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:29,000 and you know, 727 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,320 there's some I know people in unions that would have a lot of apprentices. 728 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,480 They're probably be interested in working with you on that, too. 729 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,920 Once you if you get that upsell because it's you know 730 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,080 they have a lot of labor shortages across the board period. 731 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,040 So that's very interesting. Okay. 732 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:43,440 All right. 733 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,160 So okay, let's let's talk about some things 734 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,880 that you might have gone through like personally. 735 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,520 So can you think of a time that you failed and how you grew from that? 736 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,760 It can be in business, It can be personal. 737 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,440 It's high time that I failed. 738 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,280 I would say when I was trying to 739 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,320 when I first graduated from USC, So I went to grad school at USC. 740 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,840 My first was to grad school at USC. 741 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,480 I was recruiting for full time product jobs 742 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,760 and most of the opportunity unfortunately was in S.F.. 743 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,120 I did not want to move to SS, 744 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:14,280 so I was really 745 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,840 trying hard to get a full time product job out here in L.A. 746 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,240 What ended up happening is that unfortunately that didn't happen, 747 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,440 so I ended up having to take a product manager internship post-grad, 748 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,560 making $12 an hour here in L.A. 749 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,520 Imagine $12 an hour for four and a half months straight. 750 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,120 And in L.A., that's poverty level, top of poverty. 751 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:36,720 yes, it is. Yes, it is. 752 00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:40,560 So that is that was one of the times where I was like, 753 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,120 you're in my noodles every night. 754 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:43,040 Yeah, it was 755 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,880 it was like I was being too idealistic about what I wanted my next steps 756 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:53,040 to be putting me in situations I did not want to be in at that time. 757 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,640 Yes, it did. It definitely did that. But 758 00:37:56,720 --> 00:37:59,520 I learned from that and I learned what I did learn from that. 759 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,240 Is that wild? The wild? 760 00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:07,400 These steps may have to change in ways you don't want them to. 761 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,600 You can still hold the same angle. 762 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,640 Like I just I could still went to San Francisco and then moved back down to L.A. 763 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:14,520 at some point. 764 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,360 But I think I had a certain level of idealism about what my next step 765 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,720 should be, which ended up me like, you know, not securing a full time product 766 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:26,920 job out here for the first four and a half months when graduated 767 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,040 and taking that internship for $12 an hour. 768 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,880 So that's that was a lesson learned in a lot of ways. 769 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,000 okay, great. 770 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,080 All right. 771 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:37,760 How about this? 772 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,840 What is you have a committee of three to advise you on life or business. 773 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:47,040 Who are these three people and why am I would say 774 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:47,800 for a 775 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,040 more for my for my personal life, I would say my partner, 776 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,480 she gives me a lot of 777 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,120 she's a good sounding board in that in that way 778 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:03,000 I would say my other two that I go to would be like my dad for sure, 779 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,520 because he's worked and worked in business in a variety of ways. 780 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,360 And also, you know, he came here when he was 18, 781 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,840 So he has a lot of experience about just like life in general. 782 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,800 And then my last one, I want to use someone outside of that 783 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,240 one person that I really do 784 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,800 admire, their counsel and the way that they help me 785 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,360 navigate is Charles Hodson from Precursor B.C. 786 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,240 He was one of our backers. 787 00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:33,200 He's one of our larger backers in our in my last company. 788 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:38,160 And he doesn't only give great advice about how to navigate the VC ecosystem 789 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:44,080 that we're in, but he also gives good life advice from a lens of a life lived. 790 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,800 So that's that's the last person I would say like 791 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,400 if I had to go to folks and like bring them, or if I brought them 792 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,240 three together, one of them would be able to help navigate 793 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,000 the the, the situation that I'm thinking about. 794 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,240 So those are my three. 795 00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:00,160 Okay. 796 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,560 You speak of that. 797 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,000 You you had a quote you mentioned on Twitter that you find it strange 798 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:11,680 that people believe that you can ever be the same after you lose a parent. Yes. 799 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,520 I'm assuming this has happened to you 800 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:19,080 so what changes in a person do you think? 801 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:20,280 I guess it's all personal. 802 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,240 Like what changes and what what is it that you reflect on in terms 803 00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:27,240 of changing as a person that changes you fundamentally? 804 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,920 I think 805 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:30,880 losing the 806 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:36,560 person, losing someone that knew you more than anybody else is a very 807 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,840 transformative experience in a lot of ways. 808 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,320 Unfortunately, I have friends as well as myself, 809 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,680 both lost like mothers and fathers and things of that nature. 810 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,960 I think that people 811 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,960 don't really know who they are until they've gone through grief, 812 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:54,880 because grief because grief is a sadness that you walk with all the time. 813 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,360 So that's kind of what what it is in the ways that I've changed. 814 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:04,120 You know, I it's a sadness that you walk with all the time. 815 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:05,160 Tell me about that. 816 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,240 What It's something like, you know, 817 00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:11,040 it's on you and you don't ever know when it's going to pop up. 818 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:12,840 So that's the thing about grief. 819 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,560 For those who may have never experienced it, 820 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,120 you never know when it's going to pop up or when it's going to hit you. 821 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,120 It's not always like, 822 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,120 you're breaking down, crying kind of thing, but it can disrupt 823 00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:27,240 some of the nicer moments when it does, 824 00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:30,560 because then your mind shows off to to that. 825 00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:35,160 So for me, like, I don't know fully how how I'll change. 826 00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:37,040 It'll be a year next month. 827 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:38,560 I'm so sorry for your loss. 828 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,800 Here is the hardest. Thank you. 829 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:41,760 The first year is the hardest, 830 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,640 but from what I've heard from folks, as time goes on, things get easier. 831 00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:48,120 But I think it never goes away. 832 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:49,360 Yeah, I haven't lost my. 833 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,080 Thank God I've lost my parents, unfortunately. 834 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,680 Yet it's a cycle of life that you prefer to lose your parents. 835 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,400 Your parents lose you because that's 836 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,080 like I can tell you, I've seen that because my sister died. 837 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,240 So you see, I see what? 838 00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:05,520 Obviously, I go through my pain too, for that. 839 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,040 But my parents, it's an unimaginable level of grief that they've gone through. 840 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:10,440 Yeah. 841 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,160 So I think the thing that changes the most, at least for me in the last 842 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:19,360 year, has really you reevaluate 843 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,720 what what kind of connections you really want in your life. 844 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,440 Like, you know, we all have these like some like loose ties. 845 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:26,960 You got friends. 846 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:31,640 This is where it really makes you, like, think about, like, you know, if 847 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,880 if I, if you were to pass earlier than you expected. 848 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,080 Are you spending time 849 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,840 with the people that you truly want to or are you doing it out of obligation? 850 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,920 And I think one thing that I definitely have 851 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,920 made myself really 852 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,320 not want to do is I didn't want to do it previous, 853 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:50,240 but I really don't want to do it. 854 00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:53,240 Now is spending time with people out of obligation 855 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,480 and also those who don't pour into you versus just take out of you. 856 00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:01,120 And you realize that when you because you lose the person 857 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:05,560 that would always pour into you and you you miss that in 858 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,120 when you don't have that, you know, you got to find the deficit 859 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,160 somewhere in the deficit, really, you got to fill that deficit somewhere. 860 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,480 And the best way to do that is continuing to surround yourself with people 861 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,000 who pour into you versus those who don't. 862 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,440 Because, you know, when a parent passes, you can get off your frustrations 863 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,640 about people not pouring into you, into them 864 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,760 and then they'll pour into you when they're failing. 865 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,600 You're frustrated. You no longer have that. 866 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,960 So you then really, really prioritize 867 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,920 those who pour in because you've lost someone who did a lot of it. 868 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:38,800 That was deep. 869 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,440 I appreciate that. 870 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,400 Well, all right, final question. 871 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:45,840 This is not an easy one. 872 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:51,200 It what's an important truth you have that very few people agree with you on 873 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:52,680 a lot of my tweets. 874 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,320 But you get choose what you know. 875 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,200 I'll probably have one that you're thinking about. 876 00:43:58,200 --> 00:43:58,920 I just thought about 877 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,240 I just thought about one of the things that you just that you say. 878 00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:03,320 It's like, let me let me know it. Let me do it. 879 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,480 So the one I was the one I was thinking about was how people 880 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,880 how men really underestimate the importance of 881 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,960 who they end up marrying in terms of their career. 882 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:17,640 Yes. See, I always get pushback on that, and I figured that was one. 883 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:22,000 So I got that from men and women, because I do think men, 884 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:23,680 especially upwardly mobile men. 885 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:24,640 And, you know, you're 886 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,640 you're really trying to have a good life, have a good quality of life. 887 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:32,080 I think who men choose to partner with, they should up the bar 888 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,520 because when you look at it, it's like a lot of men's lives 889 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,600 get all disheveled and torn all about and all that kind of stuff 890 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,880 because they chose a partner off a purely 891 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:47,080 sometimes either physical attraction or convenience, 892 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,440 or they like, they cook, they clean, they do the domestic stuff. 893 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,600 But like, those things are great. 894 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,520 But is this the same person who can help build 895 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,480 the life that you're looking to build. 896 00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,840 And every every woman is not equipped for that. 897 00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,400 Like the tweet, exactly the same tweet. 898 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:03,720 Was that like I was like 899 00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:08,040 men who are upwardly mobile and educated should not partner with women 900 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:12,520 who are financially insecure and non ambitious 901 00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:16,400 because it will be a more of a liability to your life than an asset. 902 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,760 But the reason I get pushback on that is because I do believe inherently 903 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,880 there are men and women who believe that women 904 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,000 inherently are a value add to a man's life no matter what. 905 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,760 I fundamentally do not believe that 906 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,160 that's something that I've 907 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,400 never truly believed, even though people want you to believe it. 908 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,600 Like it depends on the type of woman is not any woman, it's the type of woman. 909 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,880 And that type of woman is not a blanket type of woman. 910 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,840 It's like the type of woman that is best for you. 911 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,080 And that's the thing that I was really pushing on for folks. 912 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,160 But people tend to push back on that 913 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,920 because they believe that it's like devaluing the value of a woman. 914 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:56,440 It's not really doing that. 915 00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,640 It's more saying, what type of woman do you really value and making 916 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,480 sure that you look at it from that long term game versus the short term thing. 917 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,720 Because you go scratch that itch, you go, okay, cool. 918 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,240 I was with her for a little bit. It's fine, it's cool. 919 00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:12,400 But then see 920 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,240 all these other brothers and sisters that you really like. 921 00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:17,400 that would be that would be the move. 922 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:18,440 That would be the move. 923 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,240 But that's kind of the that's the main one I've gotten pushback over the years 924 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,440 is because people believe that 925 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,840 obviously this is, you know, imbalanced men, women thing. 926 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,880 But it's like for me, I like men definitely should choose better 927 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,720 because too many men's lives get derailed from not doing that. 928 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,560 Yeah, that's definitely controversial. 929 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,000 But hey, we're all about disruption. 930 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,560 So I look, I appreciate you coming on. 931 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,080 Josh is great to have you on. 932 00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:48,720 It's going to be a great show. 933 00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:53,320 Definitely look forward to keep it us keep us in touch as your new venture. 934 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,280 You comes about. Definitely will. 935 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:56,800 We'll make sure we share with the ecosystem. 936 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,960 Really appreciate you coming on then. Yeah, of course.