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Hi, Andrew,

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welcome to Honest Money Show

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Hi thanks for having me.

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Welcome, welcome.

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I wanted to start with the low

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hanging fruit.

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So you have over 30 years experience

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in traditional finance,

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and you have recently learned a lot

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about Bitcoin. What?

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I don't know how recently, but,

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you really understand it,

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so you understand

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both sides really, really well.

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And that's

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why we wanted to

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have you on as a guest.

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So what can you tell us about

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the the environment

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in Australia at the moment?

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Like how deep

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is the understanding of bitcoin

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in traditional finance?

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Where are we at?

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Well,

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I know it's a hackneyed response,

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but we're so early

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and it's

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at least in my, direct experience.

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It's still sniggered and laughed at,

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and it's not taken seriously at all.

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In fact, it's gotten to the point

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where

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my business ostensibly

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got nothing to do with, Bitcoin.

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I, I run a,

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small cap, private investment club.

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So it's all about equities.

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And obviously,

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like anyone,

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I swallow the orange peel,

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I can't shut up about it,

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but it does the business no favors.

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You know,

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I think

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a lot of the time I'm

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just annoying

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the clients that we have,

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because they,

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they join to be serious investors.

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They did not join

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to talk about magic internet

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beans and

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and that's the stage that we're at.

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So it's it's,

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I mean, baby steps.

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It is. It is getting better.

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It's.

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No, it feels like in the US,

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it's being talked about

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far more seriously

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in, in those circles.

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But in the Australian

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financial space,

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at least in my

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direct experience, it's

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not something to be taken seriously,

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which is great,

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which is great

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because if they all loved it,

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that the price would be much higher,

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which would mean that

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we don't have nearly

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as much opportunity as we do.

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So, you know, I'm

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very fond of saying

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that from an investor,

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whatever you're investing in,

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you want something

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that is absolutely a winner,

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but that very few people

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recognize that fact.

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Because that's where the opportunity

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in the alpha lies.

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You want something

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that is is really,

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you know,

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absolutely here to stay and likely

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to be a very big part of the future,

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but for which

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no one recognizes that.

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Yeah.

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If everyone loved Bitcoin,

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you know, we'd be at $10 million

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a coin and it'd be great.

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The world would be a

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much better place,

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but you wouldn't

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have that asymmetric,

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upside opportunity

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in terms of your purchasing power.

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Yeah.

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It's interesting.

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I really thought this,

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cycle was going

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to invite more retail.

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Instead, we've seen a lot

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of institutional investment

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and retail sector

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hasn't followed,

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at least not in Australia.

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But the people who do understand it,

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like I've recently met

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some boomers in Palm

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Cove during Bush bash, and,

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they are really starting

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to understand it.

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So they've spent majority

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of their life

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investing in property

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because that was the

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Australian store of value.

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And now they're starting

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to really understand Bitcoin.

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So they're like, okay,

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let me just sell one property

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and move some of that into Bitcoin.

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We've got 12 grand children or sorry

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ten grandchildren.

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And they want to

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leave some bitcoin

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for each one of them.

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So the people who do get it.

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Well I mean that's that's the reward

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for doing the work

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and being you know,

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again, it's

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the same in stocks as well. Right.

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Like if,

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if you can get to understand

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a business

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better than everyone else,

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it's such an incredible edge

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and it takes work.

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And most people aren't

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prepared to do work.

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But those that,

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you know,

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there are great rewards for, for,

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for being able to think

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and act independently

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and in a non consensus way.

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It's always been true.

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It just happens to be amazingly true

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with Bitcoin

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because the asymmetry is is so wild.

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But yeah I mean I definitely agree

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with you in terms of retail.

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So where at near enough

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all time record

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highs with more than double digits

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in the last year alone.

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And I don't know about you and you,

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but I've,

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I've had no phone calls

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from friends and family.

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A lot of them aren't even

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aware of of

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where the the price is at.

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And I honestly think it's good old

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Sam Bankman-Fried.

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We can lay the blame at here

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because it

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just that whole debacle there

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because again, for most people,

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and this was true of me

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early on, I'm

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sure it was for a lot of people

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like Bitcoin

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and crypto are synonymous.

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And I've often thought that any

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and everyone's

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instincts on crypto is right.

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I like it,

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it is a scam and a Ponzi

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and all of those those things.

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But unfortunately Bitcoin

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gets wrapped up in that

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and things like FTX.

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And again,

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if you weren't following it closely

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or a distant observer,

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all it did was validate

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all those prejudices and biases.

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And,

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you know, it's

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even at the point now with the media

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is not like really picking up on it

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much as well.

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So it's just not in their face.

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And it's

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they're not aware

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of what's happened.

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And as far as they're concerned,

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it's all dead and dusted.

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And that's all in the past.

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Yeah.

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That is so true.

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And it's interesting the point

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that you make about media

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because yeah,

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I follow Bitcoin very closely.

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And I look

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at the performance of Bitcoin

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compared to everything else

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like Nvidia and S&P 500.

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And all of these things

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get a lot more air time

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and Bitcoin gets none.

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Yeah.

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There is a paradigm shift

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happening out the window.

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And knowing no one's watching it.

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Is consistently

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outperforming everything.

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And like how is it

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how it just baffles me

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that people aren't at least curious

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enough to be like,

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okay, what's the big deal here?

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Why why is this thing

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not going away?

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I feel like this starting to be,

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but I'm just like,

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come on people, hurry up.

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Just look at it.

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Just read a book.

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It's it's funny

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because any gains

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that, seen in Bitcoin

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is entirely due to luck

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and the market being irrational

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and whatever it falls down,

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that's the market

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being perfectly rational

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and your comeuppance

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and just desserts

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for gambling

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on such a silly, reckless thing.

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You know, it's like

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even even in my little

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circle in that like, you know,

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I've on on straw man.

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I have a position of bitcoin there.

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And it's just you don't

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get any credit

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for that for that one.

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It's sort of like,

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yeah, it's up a lot.

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But you got lucky

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and it's temporary.

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Like it's up a lot

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but it won't last.

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And it's

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it's only a matter of time

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before reality reasserts itself

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and you step on the right,

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you know,

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and and all

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will be right with the world.

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So that's just the stage

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that we're at.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And I have started

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like last year in December,

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I just started talking

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about bitcoin on LinkedIn.

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And I do get a lot of criticism.

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Unfortunately.

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And it is about sort of like people

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coming to tell me that

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it's great a fool theory.

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You're getting fooled here.

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You don't know what

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you're talking about. And,

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I'm just quietly waiting.

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Waiting for

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for them to be proven wrong.

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Unfortunately, you can't use reason

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and logic.

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I mean, you can lead a horse.

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To what? But.

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And you can say, as you do,

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you know, like, read a book.

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Take it seriously.

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00:07:34,583 --> 00:07:36,291
I actually made the point, just

297
00:07:36,291 --> 00:07:38,583
just like, an hour ago.

298
00:07:38,583 --> 00:07:39,791
Speaking to a friend, it's like,

299
00:07:39,791 --> 00:07:40,958
I don't care if you adopt it

300
00:07:40,958 --> 00:07:42,291
or don't adopt it. I'll do whatever.

301
00:07:42,291 --> 00:07:43,500
You know, I up to you.

302
00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:45,500
I've got, you know,

303
00:07:45,500 --> 00:07:47,875
no incentive to make you buy

304
00:07:47,875 --> 00:07:49,458
some or not buy some.

305
00:07:49,458 --> 00:07:52,125
All I am saying is, before

306
00:07:52,125 --> 00:07:52,916
you dismiss it,

307
00:07:52,916 --> 00:07:53,458
look at it

308
00:07:53,458 --> 00:07:55,541
objectively with an open mind.

309
00:07:55,541 --> 00:07:57,500
And if you go through the process

310
00:07:57,500 --> 00:07:59,125
and it doesn't resonate

311
00:07:59,125 --> 00:07:59,958
or doesn't stick

312
00:07:59,958 --> 00:08:01,875
or just doesn't connect with you,

313
00:08:01,875 --> 00:08:02,833
then fine.

314
00:08:02,833 --> 00:08:04,583
That's no problem with that.

315
00:08:04,583 --> 00:08:06,041
My only problem with it

316
00:08:06,041 --> 00:08:09,125
is is making a decision and

317
00:08:09,125 --> 00:08:11,458
and a high can forming a

318
00:08:11,458 --> 00:08:12,625
not only an opinion,

319
00:08:12,625 --> 00:08:13,833
but a high conviction

320
00:08:13,833 --> 00:08:15,166
opinion on something

321
00:08:15,166 --> 00:08:17,833
you've not even bothered to look at.

322
00:08:17,833 --> 00:08:19,625
And yet you're so sure of yourself

323
00:08:19,625 --> 00:08:21,708
that you're that you're correct.

324
00:08:21,708 --> 00:08:23,625
And maybe you are correct,

325
00:08:23,625 --> 00:08:25,333
but but how can you possibly say

326
00:08:25,333 --> 00:08:26,291
that without having done

327
00:08:26,291 --> 00:08:27,375
one modicum of work?

328
00:08:27,375 --> 00:08:28,500
And it's it's the,

329
00:08:30,416 --> 00:08:31,458
what's the name of

330
00:08:31,458 --> 00:08:32,541
the phenomenon

331
00:08:32,541 --> 00:08:33,666
where, like, the less

332
00:08:33,666 --> 00:08:34,875
you know about something, the

333
00:08:34,875 --> 00:08:36,708
the stronger your opinion is.

334
00:08:36,708 --> 00:08:38,000
The Dunning-Kruger effect,

335
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,250
the Dunning-Kruger effect,

336
00:08:39,250 --> 00:08:42,250
you know, and it's real and,

337
00:08:42,375 --> 00:08:45,375
you know, I think I'm kind of with,

338
00:08:45,541 --> 00:08:46,666
Alan Harrington's

339
00:08:46,666 --> 00:08:47,375
view on this,

340
00:08:47,375 --> 00:08:50,083
which is you've got to stop

341
00:08:50,083 --> 00:08:52,791
trying to think that reason, logic

342
00:08:52,791 --> 00:08:53,625
and the rest of it

343
00:08:53,625 --> 00:08:54,583
will convince people,

344
00:08:54,583 --> 00:08:55,333
and all you can do

345
00:08:55,333 --> 00:08:57,250
is just laugh and criticize at them.

346
00:08:57,250 --> 00:08:57,958
And that's like,

347
00:08:57,958 --> 00:08:59,166
probably the best way to sort of

348
00:08:59,166 --> 00:09:00,625
like get people to sort of,

349
00:09:00,625 --> 00:09:02,583
you know, eventually,

350
00:09:02,583 --> 00:09:03,708
take a, take a serious

351
00:09:03,708 --> 00:09:05,541
look at it because, you know,

352
00:09:05,541 --> 00:09:06,375
you can't reason

353
00:09:06,375 --> 00:09:07,541
someone out of a position

354
00:09:07,541 --> 00:09:08,833
that they never reason themselves

355
00:09:08,833 --> 00:09:11,208
into to begin with.

356
00:09:11,208 --> 00:09:13,083
Correct?

357
00:09:13,083 --> 00:09:13,458
Yeah.

358
00:09:13,458 --> 00:09:14,958
That's that's so funny.

359
00:09:14,958 --> 00:09:17,791
I, I have managed to orange peel

360
00:09:17,791 --> 00:09:19,666
all the important people in my life,

361
00:09:19,666 --> 00:09:21,166
so I feel like everything I wanted

362
00:09:21,166 --> 00:09:22,541
to achieve, I've achieved.

363
00:09:22,541 --> 00:09:23,958
And and the people

364
00:09:23,958 --> 00:09:25,458
that mean a lot to me understand

365
00:09:25,458 --> 00:09:25,875
or at least

366
00:09:25,875 --> 00:09:28,000
trust me enough to, to allocate

367
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,208
a little bit into it.

368
00:09:30,583 --> 00:09:32,583
But everyone else that

369
00:09:32,583 --> 00:09:36,166
I kind of tend to inspire to learn

370
00:09:36,166 --> 00:09:37,708
and read more about it,

371
00:09:37,708 --> 00:09:40,500
just a huge bonus for me.

372
00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:42,875
So a little bit about learning,

373
00:09:42,875 --> 00:09:45,416
what was it that

374
00:09:45,416 --> 00:09:48,375
that orange peels you?

375
00:09:48,375 --> 00:09:52,750
I well, look, I try to be.

376
00:09:53,041 --> 00:09:54,166
I don't know if this is true or not,

377
00:09:54,166 --> 00:09:56,333
but I like to pretend it's true.

378
00:09:56,333 --> 00:09:57,250
But I'm someone

379
00:09:57,250 --> 00:09:59,666
who can be pretty flexible

380
00:09:59,666 --> 00:10:00,583
in their opinions.

381
00:10:00,583 --> 00:10:02,041
I'm very fond of the idea

382
00:10:02,041 --> 00:10:03,541
of strong opinions, loosely

383
00:10:03,541 --> 00:10:04,250
held,

384
00:10:04,250 --> 00:10:05,416
and I had a very strong opinion

385
00:10:05,416 --> 00:10:07,583
on Bitcoin back in 2017.

386
00:10:07,583 --> 00:10:08,666
It was a very negative

387
00:10:08,666 --> 00:10:10,583
kind of opinion.

388
00:10:10,583 --> 00:10:13,583
And then it crashed in 2017 and, and

389
00:10:13,583 --> 00:10:14,833
everything was right with the world

390
00:10:14,833 --> 00:10:16,375
and my opinion was validated

391
00:10:16,375 --> 00:10:17,416
and I was right.

392
00:10:17,416 --> 00:10:18,708
And, you know, you forget about it.

393
00:10:18,708 --> 00:10:19,333
You move on

394
00:10:19,333 --> 00:10:20,708
and then wait a second, grab

395
00:10:20,708 --> 00:10:23,083
another high and a higher high

396
00:10:23,083 --> 00:10:24,500
and it keeps going up.

397
00:10:24,500 --> 00:10:26,291
So it's sort of like at a point

398
00:10:26,291 --> 00:10:28,208
you can recognize that,

399
00:10:28,208 --> 00:10:29,458
well, whatever

400
00:10:29,458 --> 00:10:30,833
I thought this something go

401
00:10:30,833 --> 00:10:31,750
I might still be right.

402
00:10:31,750 --> 00:10:33,166
But this is really weird.

403
00:10:33,166 --> 00:10:34,750
Something's going on.

404
00:10:34,750 --> 00:10:36,541
So that was the first time

405
00:10:36,541 --> 00:10:37,833
this is sort of in the Covid.

406
00:10:37,833 --> 00:10:41,125
Just post Covid sort of, era

407
00:10:41,458 --> 00:10:43,458
that I better take a proper

408
00:10:43,458 --> 00:10:44,333
look and,

409
00:10:44,333 --> 00:10:45,583
and at least

410
00:10:45,583 --> 00:10:47,041
have an informed opinion before

411
00:10:47,041 --> 00:10:48,916
I try and grapple over it

412
00:10:48,916 --> 00:10:50,833
and I think the,

413
00:10:52,208 --> 00:10:53,583
as anyone listening to

414
00:10:53,583 --> 00:10:54,708
this will know, there's so much

415
00:10:54,708 --> 00:10:55,625
great content out there,

416
00:10:55,625 --> 00:10:56,958
so many great podcasts

417
00:10:56,958 --> 00:10:58,958
and interviews and the rest of it.

418
00:10:58,958 --> 00:10:59,750
But I think it was the Lex

419
00:10:59,750 --> 00:11:01,750
Fridman Michael Sallah podcast,

420
00:11:01,750 --> 00:11:03,333
I think was a four hour podcast

421
00:11:03,333 --> 00:11:04,458
or something,

422
00:11:04,458 --> 00:11:05,083
and someone said

423
00:11:05,083 --> 00:11:05,750
you should watch it.

424
00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:06,250
And I thought, well,

425
00:11:06,250 --> 00:11:08,208
a podcast is an easy way to sort of,

426
00:11:08,208 --> 00:11:08,750
you know,

427
00:11:08,750 --> 00:11:09,125
I can least

428
00:11:09,125 --> 00:11:10,041
pretend to myself

429
00:11:10,041 --> 00:11:12,291
that I'm I'm taking a proper

430
00:11:12,291 --> 00:11:13,250
look at it.

431
00:11:13,250 --> 00:11:14,083
And as we all know.

432
00:11:14,083 --> 00:11:15,791
So it's pretty bloody convincing.

433
00:11:15,791 --> 00:11:17,708
And so it's like,

434
00:11:17,708 --> 00:11:19,083
And and that made

435
00:11:19,083 --> 00:11:20,708
you think, well, that

436
00:11:20,708 --> 00:11:22,125
piqued my interest.

437
00:11:22,125 --> 00:11:24,541
Maybe I will

438
00:11:24,541 --> 00:11:26,041
listen to a few more of these.

439
00:11:26,041 --> 00:11:27,291
And so I think it was the

440
00:11:27,291 --> 00:11:27,916
brave Breedlove

441
00:11:27,916 --> 00:11:28,916
what is money series?

442
00:11:28,916 --> 00:11:30,375
I got into that.

443
00:11:30,375 --> 00:11:32,083
Then you start ordering books.

444
00:11:32,083 --> 00:11:32,958
So good. Right.

445
00:11:34,166 --> 00:11:36,041
And and it's sort of like the

446
00:11:36,041 --> 00:11:37,666
most interesting thing about it.

447
00:11:37,666 --> 00:11:38,458
Well, the least

448
00:11:38,458 --> 00:11:39,458
interesting thing about

449
00:11:39,458 --> 00:11:40,541
it was the number go up

450
00:11:40,541 --> 00:11:42,541
and it was everything else about it

451
00:11:42,541 --> 00:11:43,875
that just

452
00:11:43,875 --> 00:11:45,500
really just

453
00:11:45,500 --> 00:11:47,000
this is not a unique perspective.

454
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:48,041
And this is the perspective.

455
00:11:48,041 --> 00:11:49,666
I think the experience of all people

456
00:11:49,666 --> 00:11:50,958
who have gone down the rabbit hole

457
00:11:50,958 --> 00:11:51,333
is it's

458
00:11:51,333 --> 00:11:54,333
just it rewired my entire brain.

459
00:11:55,375 --> 00:11:57,500
Where here I am, a guy

460
00:11:57,500 --> 00:11:58,958
who's worked in finance,

461
00:11:58,958 --> 00:12:00,500
whatever, for 30 light years.

462
00:12:00,500 --> 00:12:02,625
I just never knew what money was.

463
00:12:02,625 --> 00:12:03,708
And it's so embarrassing

464
00:12:03,708 --> 00:12:04,333
to say that.

465
00:12:04,333 --> 00:12:05,291
I mean,

466
00:12:05,291 --> 00:12:05,500
I mean,

467
00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:06,541
I would have told you

468
00:12:06,541 --> 00:12:07,541
I knew what money was,

469
00:12:07,541 --> 00:12:10,125
and I would have thought it 12.

470
00:12:10,125 --> 00:12:10,750
I would have thought

471
00:12:10,750 --> 00:12:11,500
I knew what money was.

472
00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:11,958
But my

473
00:12:11,958 --> 00:12:12,625
my evolution

474
00:12:12,625 --> 00:12:13,541
and understanding of money

475
00:12:13,541 --> 00:12:14,958
never went beyond that 12 year

476
00:12:14,958 --> 00:12:16,041
old level.

477
00:12:16,041 --> 00:12:16,916
You know, I do work.

478
00:12:16,916 --> 00:12:17,750
Someone pays me money

479
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:19,166
and I can exchange it for stuff.

480
00:12:19,166 --> 00:12:20,541
And that's that's just what it is.

481
00:12:20,541 --> 00:12:21,583
What do you mean it's not?

482
00:12:21,583 --> 00:12:23,666
It's not more complicated than that.

483
00:12:23,666 --> 00:12:25,583
But it's just it's this thread

484
00:12:25,583 --> 00:12:27,583
that you start pulling on

485
00:12:27,583 --> 00:12:28,875
and it kind of leads

486
00:12:28,875 --> 00:12:31,250
you into political science

487
00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:32,500
and then cryptography

488
00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:34,000
and then game theory

489
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,291
and Austrian economics,

490
00:12:35,291 --> 00:12:36,125
Austrian economics.

491
00:12:36,125 --> 00:12:36,333
To me,

492
00:12:36,333 --> 00:12:37,458
it was always this fringe,

493
00:12:37,458 --> 00:12:38,833
libertarian, weird

494
00:12:38,833 --> 00:12:40,000
kind of thing that

495
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,291
no serious economist. Yeah.

496
00:12:42,291 --> 00:12:43,833
And then you sort of like,

497
00:12:43,833 --> 00:12:45,750
oh, that actually makes an obscene

498
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:47,416
amount of good sense.

499
00:12:47,416 --> 00:12:47,875
And again,

500
00:12:47,875 --> 00:12:48,958
you just go deeper

501
00:12:48,958 --> 00:12:49,875
and you go too far.

502
00:12:49,875 --> 00:12:51,250
And I don't know about you own you,

503
00:12:51,250 --> 00:12:51,833
but I'm not found

504
00:12:51,833 --> 00:12:52,625
the bottom of that,

505
00:12:52,625 --> 00:12:53,833
that rabbit hole yet.

506
00:12:53,833 --> 00:12:55,541
And I've been

507
00:12:55,541 --> 00:12:58,416
I started off as cynical

508
00:12:58,416 --> 00:13:00,458
or skeptical, let's say.

509
00:13:00,458 --> 00:13:03,041
And then I got a little bit curious.

510
00:13:03,041 --> 00:13:05,083
And then I did my toe in the water,

511
00:13:05,083 --> 00:13:05,875
and then I'm fully

512
00:13:05,875 --> 00:13:07,541
submerged in the water,

513
00:13:07,541 --> 00:13:08,625
and now I'm just continuing

514
00:13:08,625 --> 00:13:09,458
to swim out to sea.

515
00:13:09,458 --> 00:13:09,708
It's like,

516
00:13:09,708 --> 00:13:10,250
give me this

517
00:13:10,250 --> 00:13:11,000
deeper water

518
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,208
as as I can possibly get into

519
00:13:13,208 --> 00:13:15,000
because it just keeps it.

520
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,000
Just new doors

521
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,291
just keep opening up

522
00:13:17,291 --> 00:13:21,208
and just new profound realizations

523
00:13:21,583 --> 00:13:23,041
that keep occurring to me,

524
00:13:23,041 --> 00:13:24,833
which is so beyond,

525
00:13:24,833 --> 00:13:26,625
you know, number go up

526
00:13:26,625 --> 00:13:28,416
that it's, it,

527
00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:31,625
it's I think most people

528
00:13:31,625 --> 00:13:33,041
in my circle think

529
00:13:33,041 --> 00:13:34,500
I'm in some kind of weird cult

530
00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:35,000
because it's

531
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,000
that obsessive at this point.

532
00:13:38,541 --> 00:13:41,541
Which I get, which I get, you know.

533
00:13:42,375 --> 00:13:45,166
We're sponsored by Bet big Bitcoin.

534
00:13:45,166 --> 00:13:47,958
Yes. Yes.

535
00:13:47,958 --> 00:13:48,708
One of us.

536
00:13:48,708 --> 00:13:51,375
One of us.

537
00:13:51,375 --> 00:13:52,000
Yeah.

538
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,500
I this is one of the things

539
00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:54,333
that I personally love

540
00:13:54,333 --> 00:13:55,416
about Bitcoin the most

541
00:13:55,416 --> 00:13:57,083
because initially I just treated it

542
00:13:57,083 --> 00:13:59,000
as like an investment class.

543
00:13:59,000 --> 00:13:59,583
I was like sure

544
00:13:59,583 --> 00:14:00,375
I get a little bit

545
00:14:00,375 --> 00:14:01,750
of exposure into it

546
00:14:01,750 --> 00:14:04,541
and I was never like an investor.

547
00:14:04,541 --> 00:14:06,208
I was just a normal person

548
00:14:06,208 --> 00:14:07,375
who did their best

549
00:14:07,375 --> 00:14:08,666
to manage the money.

550
00:14:08,666 --> 00:14:10,083
I didn't bank with the bank

551
00:14:10,083 --> 00:14:11,708
for the big four.

552
00:14:11,708 --> 00:14:14,958
Sorry, I, didn't accumulate debt.

553
00:14:14,958 --> 00:14:17,500
I didn't like credit cards.

554
00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:19,708
I was just very, very, like, safe.

555
00:14:19,708 --> 00:14:21,708
And my idea of investing

556
00:14:21,708 --> 00:14:24,583
was just investing in S&P 500,

557
00:14:24,583 --> 00:14:26,958
not trading, not speculating.

558
00:14:26,958 --> 00:14:28,750
And then I learned about Bitcoin.

559
00:14:28,750 --> 00:14:30,791
And now I viewed,

560
00:14:30,791 --> 00:14:31,250
you know,

561
00:14:31,250 --> 00:14:32,208
like kind of like

562
00:14:32,208 --> 00:14:33,458
a bit of a safer haven

563
00:14:33,458 --> 00:14:34,916
than the S&P 500.

564
00:14:36,250 --> 00:14:37,333
That's just my personal.

565
00:14:37,333 --> 00:14:38,833
View the ultimate risk free asset.

566
00:14:38,833 --> 00:14:39,666
I that's that

567
00:14:39,666 --> 00:14:40,791
is the greatest irony

568
00:14:40,791 --> 00:14:42,041
in all of this,

569
00:14:42,041 --> 00:14:43,458
is that the thing that people think

570
00:14:43,458 --> 00:14:44,208
is that the risk,

571
00:14:44,208 --> 00:14:46,583
if you drew all the asset classes,

572
00:14:46,583 --> 00:14:47,833
fixed interest,

573
00:14:47,833 --> 00:14:48,166
you know,

574
00:14:48,166 --> 00:14:51,208
cash, property, equities, crypto,

575
00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:52,541
you know,

576
00:14:52,541 --> 00:14:53,875
it's way up there

577
00:14:53,875 --> 00:14:56,000
and and and ironically,

578
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,708
the safest investment is fixed

579
00:14:57,708 --> 00:14:59,333
interest and sovereign debt.

580
00:14:59,333 --> 00:15:00,625
And then again you go down

581
00:15:00,625 --> 00:15:01,750
deep enough the rabbit hole.

582
00:15:01,750 --> 00:15:02,333
It's like

583
00:15:02,333 --> 00:15:03,833
not the riskiest

584
00:15:03,833 --> 00:15:05,625
thing you can possibly hold

585
00:15:05,625 --> 00:15:06,916
is government debt.

586
00:15:06,916 --> 00:15:09,416
And the safest thing is Bitcoin.

587
00:15:09,416 --> 00:15:10,250
And that's a hard

588
00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:11,625
that's a hard hill to climb.

589
00:15:11,625 --> 00:15:12,958
And if you're listening to this

590
00:15:12,958 --> 00:15:13,875
and you're coming in called,

591
00:15:13,875 --> 00:15:15,791
that's going to sound,

592
00:15:15,791 --> 00:15:17,375
sacrilegious almost.

593
00:15:17,375 --> 00:15:20,000
But I fundamentally believe it.

594
00:15:21,583 --> 00:15:23,250
Mean to maintain it takes a

595
00:15:23,250 --> 00:15:24,958
lot of reading to get there.

596
00:15:24,958 --> 00:15:25,666
It's not like you

597
00:15:25,666 --> 00:15:27,666
come to this decision overnight

598
00:15:27,666 --> 00:15:29,416
and you shouldn't you shouldn't.

599
00:15:29,416 --> 00:15:31,125
The conviction really grows from

600
00:15:31,125 --> 00:15:32,750
that depth of understanding.

601
00:15:32,750 --> 00:15:34,333
And I like that you said that,

602
00:15:34,333 --> 00:15:34,666
you know,

603
00:15:34,666 --> 00:15:36,041
you worked in finance

604
00:15:36,041 --> 00:15:37,041
in traditional markets

605
00:15:37,041 --> 00:15:37,958
for over 30 years,

606
00:15:37,958 --> 00:15:39,791
not really understanding money.

607
00:15:39,791 --> 00:15:42,791
And that was, to me, one of the big,

608
00:15:43,666 --> 00:15:44,791
eye opening moments

609
00:15:44,791 --> 00:15:45,833
was when I learned

610
00:15:45,833 --> 00:15:46,750
learning about money,

611
00:15:46,750 --> 00:15:48,916
learning about the history of money,

612
00:15:48,916 --> 00:15:51,916
how money naturally selected, why?

613
00:15:52,125 --> 00:15:53,750
Those are the sort of questions

614
00:15:53,750 --> 00:15:54,875
that help me understand

615
00:15:54,875 --> 00:15:57,041
why Bitcoin is important

616
00:15:57,041 --> 00:15:59,625
and why it's worth looking at.

617
00:15:59,625 --> 00:16:00,583
How 100%.

618
00:16:00,583 --> 00:16:02,833
Yeah, and it is.

619
00:16:02,833 --> 00:16:05,500
It's one of those things that goes

620
00:16:05,500 --> 00:16:08,041
beyond just,

621
00:16:08,041 --> 00:16:08,791
economics.

622
00:16:08,791 --> 00:16:10,583
I always thought, you know,

623
00:16:10,583 --> 00:16:11,625
if you're someone who cares

624
00:16:11,625 --> 00:16:13,166
about societal issues

625
00:16:13,166 --> 00:16:14,875
and fairness and all of that,

626
00:16:14,875 --> 00:16:16,083
you should care about economics,

627
00:16:16,083 --> 00:16:16,541
because that's how

628
00:16:16,541 --> 00:16:18,666
we kind of organize our society.

629
00:16:18,666 --> 00:16:19,875
And if you care about economics,

630
00:16:19,875 --> 00:16:20,500
you should probably care

631
00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:22,375
about the correct economics.

632
00:16:22,375 --> 00:16:23,500
And if you care about

633
00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:24,791
the correct economics,

634
00:16:24,791 --> 00:16:26,125
it leads you to a series

635
00:16:26,125 --> 00:16:26,958
of conclusions

636
00:16:26,958 --> 00:16:28,375
that are rather inescapable.

637
00:16:28,375 --> 00:16:29,500
And, and,

638
00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:30,916
and what's remarkable

639
00:16:30,916 --> 00:16:34,166
about it is also really

640
00:16:35,833 --> 00:16:38,208
shows the existing lens

641
00:16:38,208 --> 00:16:39,875
through which we view the economy

642
00:16:39,875 --> 00:16:42,083
and talk about the economy,

643
00:16:42,083 --> 00:16:43,833
a measure the economy

644
00:16:43,833 --> 00:16:44,625
and transacting

645
00:16:44,625 --> 00:16:47,250
the economy is just so backwards,

646
00:16:47,250 --> 00:16:47,750
like,

647
00:16:47,750 --> 00:16:48,541
and you

648
00:16:48,541 --> 00:16:49,708
you really do see it

649
00:16:49,708 --> 00:16:51,583
as a complete clown.

650
00:16:51,583 --> 00:16:54,166
Well, and it's very hard to say.

651
00:16:54,166 --> 00:16:55,458
People have often given the analogy

652
00:16:55,458 --> 00:16:57,250
of trying to convince a fish

653
00:16:57,250 --> 00:16:58,291
that water is real

654
00:16:58,291 --> 00:16:59,166
because it's hard.

655
00:16:59,166 --> 00:16:59,791
It's just

656
00:16:59,791 --> 00:17:00,875
everywhere and it's

657
00:17:00,875 --> 00:17:01,333
and yet

658
00:17:01,333 --> 00:17:02,000
it's nowhere

659
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:02,625
and it's

660
00:17:02,625 --> 00:17:03,250
it's, it's

661
00:17:03,250 --> 00:17:04,625
that kind of thing

662
00:17:04,625 --> 00:17:05,083
that I think

663
00:17:05,083 --> 00:17:06,583
makes all of this

664
00:17:06,583 --> 00:17:09,166
very difficult, but at the same time

665
00:17:09,166 --> 00:17:12,166
very valuable

666
00:17:13,291 --> 00:17:16,166
in that it offers us a tool

667
00:17:16,166 --> 00:17:17,625
for financial

668
00:17:17,625 --> 00:17:19,666
self-actualization and,

669
00:17:19,666 --> 00:17:20,833
and just maximizing

670
00:17:20,833 --> 00:17:22,541
of human prosperity

671
00:17:22,541 --> 00:17:23,958
and societal harmony

672
00:17:23,958 --> 00:17:25,333
and I,

673
00:17:25,333 --> 00:17:26,625
I get how hyperbolic

674
00:17:26,625 --> 00:17:27,791
all of this sounds, by the way.

675
00:17:27,791 --> 00:17:28,666
But again,

676
00:17:28,666 --> 00:17:29,875
I think that's all I think

677
00:17:29,875 --> 00:17:31,083
all of those things are true.

678
00:17:33,333 --> 00:17:34,958
I love the, you said hyperbolic.

679
00:17:34,958 --> 00:17:35,875
One of the reasons

680
00:17:35,875 --> 00:17:37,833
that I decided to start

681
00:17:37,833 --> 00:17:38,416
a podcast

682
00:17:38,416 --> 00:17:39,708
was because I thought

683
00:17:39,708 --> 00:17:41,750
some of the American voices

684
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:43,000
were very, like, bombastic

685
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:43,458
in the way

686
00:17:43,458 --> 00:17:44,750
that they explain Bitcoin

687
00:17:44,750 --> 00:17:47,500
and turns out that I'm the same

688
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:50,500
just with an Australian accent.

689
00:17:51,916 --> 00:17:52,541
Yeah.

690
00:17:52,541 --> 00:17:53,958
Yeah, I know, I know what you mean.

691
00:17:53,958 --> 00:17:54,708
And it's so great

692
00:17:54,708 --> 00:17:56,791
to see the Aussie bitcoin scene

693
00:17:56,791 --> 00:17:57,916
really starting to flourish

694
00:17:57,916 --> 00:17:58,750
too, by the way.

695
00:17:58,750 --> 00:18:00,500
So it's it is when you go on

696
00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:01,583
I mean this is true of the internet

697
00:18:01,583 --> 00:18:02,500
and content in general.

698
00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:03,500
This 300

699
00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:03,958
whatever

700
00:18:03,958 --> 00:18:06,958
many million people in America.

701
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:07,791
You know it is the

702
00:18:07,791 --> 00:18:08,750
it is the Bitcoin

703
00:18:08,750 --> 00:18:09,916
capital of the world

704
00:18:09,916 --> 00:18:10,833
in terms of adoption.

705
00:18:10,833 --> 00:18:11,375
So you're going to get

706
00:18:11,375 --> 00:18:12,041
a lot of content

707
00:18:12,041 --> 00:18:12,500
there and a lot of

708
00:18:12,500 --> 00:18:13,708
brilliant content.

709
00:18:13,708 --> 00:18:14,500
But yeah, we need

710
00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:15,250
we need some voices

711
00:18:15,250 --> 00:18:16,375
from outside of the US.

712
00:18:16,375 --> 00:18:17,375
And so what are you doing.

713
00:18:17,375 --> 00:18:18,125
You're doing good work.

714
00:18:19,291 --> 00:18:19,958
Yeah.

715
00:18:19,958 --> 00:18:21,458
And the other thing as well, people

716
00:18:21,458 --> 00:18:22,333
who are in Australia

717
00:18:22,333 --> 00:18:24,250
interested in crypto in Australia,

718
00:18:24,250 --> 00:18:26,041
they don't have the right guidance.

719
00:18:26,041 --> 00:18:27,666
And the influencers in this space

720
00:18:27,666 --> 00:18:29,916
are usually selling them courses and

721
00:18:29,916 --> 00:18:32,125
and things to benefit themselves,

722
00:18:32,125 --> 00:18:32,458
rather

723
00:18:32,458 --> 00:18:34,458
than really teaching them about

724
00:18:34,458 --> 00:18:35,458
what is the difference

725
00:18:35,458 --> 00:18:38,416
between Bitcoin and altcoins,

726
00:18:38,416 --> 00:18:40,166
why one is safe,

727
00:18:40,166 --> 00:18:41,291
the other one is not.

728
00:18:41,291 --> 00:18:42,916
You kind of need to be an insider

729
00:18:42,916 --> 00:18:44,833
in order to make any money.

730
00:18:44,833 --> 00:18:46,416
You risk losing a lot of money,

731
00:18:46,416 --> 00:18:47,166
and a lot of people

732
00:18:47,166 --> 00:18:48,208
have lost a lot of money

733
00:18:48,208 --> 00:18:50,500
trying to time the market.

734
00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:52,250
And there have been instances

735
00:18:52,250 --> 00:18:53,500
where people told me like, oh,

736
00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:55,583
I invested in this coin

737
00:18:55,583 --> 00:18:56,625
and the next.

738
00:18:56,625 --> 00:18:57,583
And then

739
00:18:57,583 --> 00:18:57,875
I thought

740
00:18:57,875 --> 00:18:58,875
it was going to keep going up

741
00:18:58,875 --> 00:18:59,500
and I didn't sell.

742
00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:00,333
And now it plummeted.

743
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:02,291
And these stories are

744
00:19:02,291 --> 00:19:04,625
very, very frequent. Yeah.

745
00:19:04,625 --> 00:19:07,000
And I'm all for people making money.

746
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,250
Do what you need to do.

747
00:19:09,250 --> 00:19:10,958
I'm never going to tell someone else

748
00:19:10,958 --> 00:19:11,958
how to,

749
00:19:11,958 --> 00:19:13,541
you know, invest their money.

750
00:19:13,541 --> 00:19:15,791
I will try to caution

751
00:19:15,791 --> 00:19:16,916
people that, you know,

752
00:19:16,916 --> 00:19:18,875
investing in altcoins

753
00:19:18,875 --> 00:19:19,708
for most people

754
00:19:19,708 --> 00:19:22,708
usually ends spectacularly badly.

755
00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:25,791
I kind of had the same opinion.

756
00:19:25,791 --> 00:19:27,166
You know, for most people, like,

757
00:19:27,166 --> 00:19:28,041
something like S&P

758
00:19:28,041 --> 00:19:28,875
500 is a lot

759
00:19:28,875 --> 00:19:30,000
safer than trading

760
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:31,041
individual stocks.

761
00:19:31,041 --> 00:19:32,416
So that's kind of the analogy

762
00:19:32,416 --> 00:19:35,416
that I use, to try to,

763
00:19:36,541 --> 00:19:38,833
I guess, illustrate this point.

764
00:19:38,833 --> 00:19:40,791
But I even think old coins

765
00:19:40,791 --> 00:19:41,833
that are a lot more sinister

766
00:19:41,833 --> 00:19:43,333
than individual stocks.

767
00:19:43,333 --> 00:19:45,916
So. There are cancer.

768
00:19:45,916 --> 00:19:46,666
I mean,

769
00:19:46,666 --> 00:19:48,375
as I say to my friends

770
00:19:48,375 --> 00:19:49,875
who are cynical on this stuff, it's

771
00:19:49,875 --> 00:19:50,208
just like

772
00:19:50,208 --> 00:19:53,000
your instincts are 100% correct,

773
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,000
and it's just that you, you,

774
00:19:56,291 --> 00:19:57,583
you lump Bitcoin in with it.

775
00:19:57,583 --> 00:19:58,791
It's just different,

776
00:19:58,791 --> 00:20:00,291
you know, and it's crazy.

777
00:20:00,291 --> 00:20:01,041
Like, what do you mean?

778
00:20:01,041 --> 00:20:03,041
It's it's obviously the same right.

779
00:20:03,041 --> 00:20:04,875
Like how can you separate this.

780
00:20:04,875 --> 00:20:06,125
And then it's,

781
00:20:06,125 --> 00:20:07,000
it is hard to see

782
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,083
because if you talk to the,

783
00:20:09,083 --> 00:20:11,208
you know, the Ethereum people,

784
00:20:11,208 --> 00:20:11,833
the zombie,

785
00:20:11,833 --> 00:20:12,875
they'll say the same thing.

786
00:20:12,875 --> 00:20:13,208
Right.

787
00:20:13,208 --> 00:20:14,041
So it's just like that

788
00:20:14,041 --> 00:20:15,083
cult likes that coin,

789
00:20:15,083 --> 00:20:16,250
that cult likes that coin.

790
00:20:16,250 --> 00:20:17,041
And they're all the same.

791
00:20:17,041 --> 00:20:18,041
And it is so easy to

792
00:20:18,041 --> 00:20:19,041
reach that conclusion.

793
00:20:20,416 --> 00:20:21,250
So unfortunately there's

794
00:20:21,250 --> 00:20:22,083
no shortcut to it.

795
00:20:22,083 --> 00:20:23,000
You've just got to

796
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:23,500
you've got to

797
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:24,500
you've got to do the work

798
00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:26,458
and reach your own conclusions.

799
00:20:26,458 --> 00:20:28,291
But isn't it funny

800
00:20:28,291 --> 00:20:31,291
that anyone who has done

801
00:20:31,958 --> 00:20:32,625
the time

802
00:20:32,625 --> 00:20:34,750
and they've put the effort into it

803
00:20:34,750 --> 00:20:36,916
all reach the same conclusion?

804
00:20:36,916 --> 00:20:38,041
That's interesting.

805
00:20:38,041 --> 00:20:39,541
The other one is that once

806
00:20:39,541 --> 00:20:40,875
they've reached that conclusion,

807
00:20:40,875 --> 00:20:42,083
they never go back.

808
00:20:42,083 --> 00:20:43,791
Like you never made a bitcoiners.

809
00:20:43,791 --> 00:20:45,041
Like,

810
00:20:45,041 --> 00:20:46,291
I was interesting for a while,

811
00:20:46,291 --> 00:20:48,666
but now I've decided to pull back

812
00:20:48,666 --> 00:20:50,041
my exposure. Like, it just.

813
00:20:50,041 --> 00:20:51,083
It doesn't happen.

814
00:20:51,083 --> 00:20:53,583
And again, if you're on the outside

815
00:20:53,583 --> 00:20:54,916
and you're still trying to weigh

816
00:20:54,916 --> 00:20:55,916
all this kind of stuff

817
00:20:55,916 --> 00:20:56,583
up, that's

818
00:20:56,583 --> 00:20:57,583
just two data points

819
00:20:57,583 --> 00:20:58,541
that I think are

820
00:20:58,541 --> 00:20:59,833
quite interesting, right?

821
00:20:59,833 --> 00:21:01,416
If you think about just that alone,

822
00:21:01,416 --> 00:21:02,958
if nothing else,

823
00:21:02,958 --> 00:21:04,333
it should encourage

824
00:21:04,333 --> 00:21:06,125
you just to scratch

825
00:21:06,125 --> 00:21:07,166
scratch at the surface

826
00:21:07,166 --> 00:21:08,208
and dig a little bit deeper.

827
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,083
Yeah.

828
00:21:11,083 --> 00:21:12,250
Do you have a favorite book

829
00:21:12,250 --> 00:21:13,208
in Bitcoin

830
00:21:13,208 --> 00:21:14,166
that you recommend

831
00:21:14,166 --> 00:21:16,166
to your friends and family?

832
00:21:16,166 --> 00:21:18,166
Well that's. This you.

833
00:21:18,166 --> 00:21:19,708
I do.

834
00:21:19,708 --> 00:21:20,333
So my

835
00:21:20,333 --> 00:21:21,708
my favorite is

836
00:21:21,708 --> 00:21:22,541
Bitcoin is Venus

837
00:21:22,541 --> 00:21:25,250
I really really love that.

838
00:21:25,250 --> 00:21:26,333
Which one is right.

839
00:21:26,333 --> 00:21:27,541
Bitcoin is Venus.

840
00:21:27,541 --> 00:21:28,541
It's Elon Farrington

841
00:21:28,541 --> 00:21:29,708
started as humans.

842
00:21:29,708 --> 00:21:31,666
And Sasha I'm so sorry I've gone

843
00:21:31,666 --> 00:21:32,416
blank on the name,

844
00:21:32,416 --> 00:21:33,333
but it started

845
00:21:33,333 --> 00:21:35,500
as a series of articles

846
00:21:35,500 --> 00:21:38,500
and it's really more talking about,

847
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:39,166
in a lot of ways

848
00:21:39,166 --> 00:21:40,541
just it's more about sound money

849
00:21:40,541 --> 00:21:42,791
than it is about Bitcoin.

850
00:21:42,791 --> 00:21:45,125
And it's more about capitalism,

851
00:21:45,125 --> 00:21:46,125
true capitalism,

852
00:21:46,125 --> 00:21:48,791
as opposed to anything else.

853
00:21:48,791 --> 00:21:50,666
But yeah, it's it

854
00:21:50,666 --> 00:21:51,875
I don't actually recommend

855
00:21:51,875 --> 00:21:52,666
that to most people

856
00:21:52,666 --> 00:21:55,375
because it's a little bit

857
00:21:55,375 --> 00:21:56,458
it's intellectually heavy.

858
00:21:56,458 --> 00:21:57,958
It's maybe a bit more it,

859
00:21:57,958 --> 00:21:59,041
it's a bit harder

860
00:21:59,041 --> 00:22:00,083
to wrap your head around.

861
00:22:01,708 --> 00:22:02,375
I actually

862
00:22:02,375 --> 00:22:05,125
I actually recommend Broken Money.

863
00:22:05,125 --> 00:22:06,541
I think that's a really good book

864
00:22:06,541 --> 00:22:08,041
because it's not.

865
00:22:08,041 --> 00:22:09,208
And Joe Bryan's.

866
00:22:09,208 --> 00:22:10,041
I know you had him on

867
00:22:10,041 --> 00:22:12,333
as a guest recently.

868
00:22:12,333 --> 00:22:13,750
And I recommend his video.

869
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:14,875
What's the problem as well?

870
00:22:14,875 --> 00:22:17,250
Because both of those resources

871
00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:20,250
don't really touch on Bitcoin.

872
00:22:20,291 --> 00:22:21,083
Not, you know,

873
00:22:21,083 --> 00:22:21,916
in, in lens case

874
00:22:21,916 --> 00:22:23,041
at the very end of the book.

875
00:22:23,041 --> 00:22:24,583
And in Joe's case,

876
00:22:24,583 --> 00:22:25,333
I don't actually think

877
00:22:25,333 --> 00:22:27,666
he overtly mentions it at all.

878
00:22:27,666 --> 00:22:29,833
And so it's a nice little slide

879
00:22:29,833 --> 00:22:31,541
way of slipping it into someone's

880
00:22:31,541 --> 00:22:32,208
consciousness.

881
00:22:32,208 --> 00:22:32,750
It's just like, hey,

882
00:22:32,750 --> 00:22:34,541
just think about this as a problem.

883
00:22:34,541 --> 00:22:35,208
And then Bitcoin

884
00:22:35,208 --> 00:22:36,166
just presents itself

885
00:22:36,166 --> 00:22:38,291
as a very obvious solution to it.

886
00:22:38,291 --> 00:22:40,541
Rather than coming in hot

887
00:22:40,541 --> 00:22:43,666
and start talking about Sha256 and

888
00:22:43,875 --> 00:22:44,916
private keys and

889
00:22:46,333 --> 00:22:47,416
public private pay,

890
00:22:47,416 --> 00:22:48,750
you know, all of all of that,

891
00:22:48,750 --> 00:22:49,750
that is, that is,

892
00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:50,625
that is throwing people

893
00:22:50,625 --> 00:22:52,083
into the deep end and you just

894
00:22:52,083 --> 00:22:53,416
you just going to confuse them.

895
00:22:53,416 --> 00:22:54,166
But if you can just

896
00:22:54,166 --> 00:22:55,666
sort of step back and say,

897
00:22:55,666 --> 00:22:58,208
just think a bit about money

898
00:22:58,208 --> 00:23:01,208
and what matters about money.

899
00:23:01,333 --> 00:23:02,541
People, people

900
00:23:02,541 --> 00:23:04,083
most people will will arrive

901
00:23:04,083 --> 00:23:06,541
at the same conclusion.

902
00:23:06,541 --> 00:23:07,625
Yeah, for sure.

903
00:23:07,625 --> 00:23:10,625
I loved, loved, loved Lynn's book.

904
00:23:10,875 --> 00:23:12,625
If someone's not a reader,

905
00:23:12,625 --> 00:23:13,875
I won't recommend that one

906
00:23:13,875 --> 00:23:16,625
because it's like 528 pages long.

907
00:23:16,625 --> 00:23:17,541
There is a half hour

908
00:23:17,541 --> 00:23:20,416
YouTube video of the book on that.

909
00:23:20,416 --> 00:23:21,375
She. Yeah. Yep.

910
00:23:21,375 --> 00:23:23,666
She's done it herself and,

911
00:23:23,666 --> 00:23:24,500
or produced it

912
00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:25,666
and and the writes

913
00:23:25,666 --> 00:23:26,666
it and it's great

914
00:23:26,666 --> 00:23:27,583
if you don't want to read the book,

915
00:23:27,583 --> 00:23:29,416
watch if I can't.

916
00:23:29,416 --> 00:23:30,041
It's amazing

917
00:23:30,041 --> 00:23:31,208
how many times have recommended

918
00:23:31,208 --> 00:23:32,708
that Joe's video as well as I'm not.

919
00:23:32,708 --> 00:23:33,541
I can't be bothered.

920
00:23:33,541 --> 00:23:35,208
It's like you spend

921
00:23:35,208 --> 00:23:37,333
however many hours a week working,

922
00:23:37,333 --> 00:23:38,625
you know, to try and save money

923
00:23:38,625 --> 00:23:39,375
that you won't,

924
00:23:39,375 --> 00:23:39,583
you know,

925
00:23:39,583 --> 00:23:40,625
and you watch hours

926
00:23:40,625 --> 00:23:43,625
upon hours of your reality trash TV,

927
00:23:43,625 --> 00:23:45,000
but you won't spend half an hour

928
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:45,875
just to learn about one

929
00:23:45,875 --> 00:23:47,208
of the most fundamental

930
00:23:47,208 --> 00:23:48,625
coordination mechanisms

931
00:23:48,625 --> 00:23:49,916
in our modern economy

932
00:23:49,916 --> 00:23:51,708
and the very sort of underpinning

933
00:23:51,708 --> 00:23:53,458
of our society that, okay,

934
00:23:54,625 --> 00:23:55,708
it's just what people are like,

935
00:23:55,708 --> 00:23:57,750
I suppose.

936
00:23:57,750 --> 00:23:58,791
Yeah.

937
00:23:58,791 --> 00:24:01,333
One of my,

938
00:24:01,333 --> 00:24:02,375
big concerns

939
00:24:02,375 --> 00:24:03,458
and things that keeps me up

940
00:24:03,458 --> 00:24:05,083
at night is,

941
00:24:05,083 --> 00:24:06,375
I very much feel like we're

942
00:24:06,375 --> 00:24:07,541
reaching a late stage

943
00:24:07,541 --> 00:24:10,458
for our society where,

944
00:24:10,458 --> 00:24:12,291
we don't have the economic energy

945
00:24:12,291 --> 00:24:12,916
to that

946
00:24:12,916 --> 00:24:15,916
we had 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.

947
00:24:16,458 --> 00:24:18,375
And cost of living in Australia

948
00:24:18,375 --> 00:24:21,083
is really big and bad problem.

949
00:24:21,083 --> 00:24:24,083
And when people are so drained,

950
00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:25,666
they don't exactly

951
00:24:25,666 --> 00:24:27,791
have the motivation to go,

952
00:24:27,791 --> 00:24:28,458
let me go

953
00:24:28,458 --> 00:24:29,875
and learn about this thing.

954
00:24:29,875 --> 00:24:31,583
You know, that's Michigan.

955
00:24:31,583 --> 00:24:33,333
Smells like it's crazy.

956
00:24:33,333 --> 00:24:36,041
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

957
00:24:36,041 --> 00:24:37,500
So I keep finding

958
00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:38,416
like I keep thinking,

959
00:24:38,416 --> 00:24:41,500
how can I reach these people enough.

960
00:24:42,083 --> 00:24:44,208
Just enough to peak their interest

961
00:24:44,208 --> 00:24:44,666
and be like,

962
00:24:44,666 --> 00:24:46,833
okay, let me look into this thing.

963
00:24:46,833 --> 00:24:48,375
It's annoying. It's persistent.

964
00:24:48,375 --> 00:24:50,125
It won't go away.

965
00:24:50,125 --> 00:24:50,458
Yeah.

966
00:24:50,458 --> 00:24:51,333
What what

967
00:24:51,333 --> 00:24:52,416
what is it about this

968
00:24:52,416 --> 00:24:54,375
that that I need to know?

969
00:24:54,375 --> 00:24:55,541
And I think, like you said,

970
00:24:55,541 --> 00:24:58,041
the Joe, podcast is a really good

971
00:24:58,041 --> 00:24:58,916
starting point.

972
00:24:58,916 --> 00:24:59,875
It's very palatable.

973
00:24:59,875 --> 00:25:01,791
It's easy for anyone to understand.

974
00:25:01,791 --> 00:25:02,416
They don't know about

975
00:25:02,416 --> 00:25:03,416
quantitative easing

976
00:25:03,416 --> 00:25:04,750
or fractional reserve banking,

977
00:25:04,750 --> 00:25:05,416
but they do.

978
00:25:05,416 --> 00:25:08,166
Just not using those words. Yes.

979
00:25:08,166 --> 00:25:08,833
So it's easy

980
00:25:08,833 --> 00:25:10,875
enough for anyone to understand.

981
00:25:10,875 --> 00:25:12,791
And I have heard of Lynn's,

982
00:25:12,791 --> 00:25:13,375
YouTube video.

983
00:25:13,375 --> 00:25:14,041
I haven't watched it

984
00:25:14,041 --> 00:25:14,875
because I've read the book.

985
00:25:14,875 --> 00:25:15,375
So I was like,

986
00:25:15,375 --> 00:25:17,583
that's kind of my excuse.

987
00:25:17,583 --> 00:25:18,833
But I love the book.

988
00:25:18,833 --> 00:25:21,000
I actually listened to the audio.

989
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,666
And I'll need to order the book

990
00:25:22,666 --> 00:25:23,208
because there are

991
00:25:23,208 --> 00:25:24,125
some charts in there

992
00:25:24,125 --> 00:25:25,458
that I didn't get to see

993
00:25:25,458 --> 00:25:26,750
that she referred to in the book.

994
00:25:26,750 --> 00:25:27,250
I was like, oh,

995
00:25:27,250 --> 00:25:28,875
I better come back to that.

996
00:25:28,875 --> 00:25:30,708
But I love luck because I've read

997
00:25:30,708 --> 00:25:32,166
now a number of books

998
00:25:32,166 --> 00:25:32,958
that kind of follow

999
00:25:32,958 --> 00:25:34,916
a similar path to Lynn's.

1000
00:25:34,916 --> 00:25:36,375
And that is, you know, the problem

1001
00:25:36,375 --> 00:25:37,875
and then the solution.

1002
00:25:37,875 --> 00:25:39,250
But I find that each time I read

1003
00:25:39,250 --> 00:25:39,791
a book, it's

1004
00:25:39,791 --> 00:25:41,625
never a repetition of topics.

1005
00:25:41,625 --> 00:25:43,333
I always learn something new,

1006
00:25:43,333 --> 00:25:45,250
and there's always a different lens.

1007
00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:46,541
And I love her.

1008
00:25:47,708 --> 00:25:49,166
Her take on,

1009
00:25:49,166 --> 00:25:51,041
bitcoin or sorry, money actually

1010
00:25:51,041 --> 00:25:52,541
being at its core ledger.

1011
00:25:52,541 --> 00:25:54,333
And I remember we had an Australia

1012
00:25:54,333 --> 00:25:57,083
wide debate that went on for a month

1013
00:25:57,083 --> 00:25:58,750
for that this was true or not.

1014
00:25:58,750 --> 00:25:59,625
Yeah. Yeah.

1015
00:25:59,625 --> 00:26:00,875
This is kind of who we are.

1016
00:26:00,875 --> 00:26:01,916
It says Bitcoin is

1017
00:26:01,916 --> 00:26:03,083
this is what we talk about.

1018
00:26:03,083 --> 00:26:05,916
We talk about money for fun.

1019
00:26:05,916 --> 00:26:06,583
And money

1020
00:26:06,583 --> 00:26:06,916
I don't know

1021
00:26:06,916 --> 00:26:08,416
what's the other problem with it is,

1022
00:26:08,416 --> 00:26:09,750
is that it feels like

1023
00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:11,000
because you it's

1024
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:11,708
because it has

1025
00:26:11,708 --> 00:26:13,250
had the appreciation it has

1026
00:26:13,250 --> 00:26:14,791
and because it is

1027
00:26:14,791 --> 00:26:17,375
very specifically about money.

1028
00:26:17,375 --> 00:26:19,458
It feels like it's almost a craven

1029
00:26:19,458 --> 00:26:20,583
and a crass topic.

1030
00:26:20,583 --> 00:26:21,250
It's like, yeah,

1031
00:26:21,250 --> 00:26:22,541
you guys are interested in it

1032
00:26:22,541 --> 00:26:23,208
because you just

1033
00:26:23,208 --> 00:26:24,708
you just want to get rich

1034
00:26:24,708 --> 00:26:27,416
when Lambo like that's and it's not,

1035
00:26:27,416 --> 00:26:29,208
it's it's quite

1036
00:26:29,208 --> 00:26:30,250
hard for people

1037
00:26:30,250 --> 00:26:30,875
to believe

1038
00:26:30,875 --> 00:26:33,875
that there is a more noble

1039
00:26:34,291 --> 00:26:35,958
and maybe I'm kidding myself.

1040
00:26:35,958 --> 00:26:36,583
I don't think so.

1041
00:26:36,583 --> 00:26:38,958
There is a more noble,

1042
00:26:38,958 --> 00:26:40,333
calling that's here.

1043
00:26:40,333 --> 00:26:40,791
You know,

1044
00:26:40,791 --> 00:26:42,208
it's like you come,

1045
00:26:42,208 --> 00:26:43,708
you come for the money

1046
00:26:43,708 --> 00:26:45,208
and you stay for the revolution.

1047
00:26:45,208 --> 00:26:47,625
And, that's definitely true.

1048
00:26:47,625 --> 00:26:48,166
In my case,

1049
00:26:48,166 --> 00:26:48,666
it was like, yeah,

1050
00:26:48,666 --> 00:26:49,333
this looks interesting.

1051
00:26:49,333 --> 00:26:50,208
I might buy a little bit.

1052
00:26:50,208 --> 00:26:51,375
I'll invest in it.

1053
00:26:51,375 --> 00:26:53,208
I'll take a position in Bitcoin,

1054
00:26:54,208 --> 00:26:54,750
which I can't

1055
00:26:54,750 --> 00:26:55,291
even say with

1056
00:26:55,291 --> 00:26:57,916
a straight face these days.

1057
00:26:57,916 --> 00:26:58,583
But yeah,

1058
00:26:58,583 --> 00:26:58,916
it is,

1059
00:26:58,916 --> 00:27:00,166
it is so much more

1060
00:27:00,166 --> 00:27:01,083
beyond all of that.

1061
00:27:01,083 --> 00:27:01,500
And look,

1062
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:01,875
I mean,

1063
00:27:01,875 --> 00:27:03,250
if you have to figure out some way

1064
00:27:03,250 --> 00:27:03,958
to quickly

1065
00:27:03,958 --> 00:27:05,125
and easily orange peel people

1066
00:27:05,125 --> 00:27:06,041
let me know

1067
00:27:06,041 --> 00:27:07,750
because I certainly haven't

1068
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:08,625
found it.

1069
00:27:08,625 --> 00:27:10,125
It's very hard to do

1070
00:27:10,125 --> 00:27:12,041
the best advice I've had.

1071
00:27:12,041 --> 00:27:14,083
It might have been Daniel Button

1072
00:27:14,083 --> 00:27:14,625
or someone

1073
00:27:14,625 --> 00:27:17,625
I think I heard sort of say is like.

1074
00:27:18,708 --> 00:27:21,125
Every everyone's got their own

1075
00:27:21,125 --> 00:27:22,166
sort of topics

1076
00:27:22,166 --> 00:27:23,125
and their own interests

1077
00:27:23,125 --> 00:27:24,208
and the things that they sort of

1078
00:27:24,208 --> 00:27:24,708
believe in.

1079
00:27:24,708 --> 00:27:26,250
It's about

1080
00:27:26,250 --> 00:27:28,458
there is no universal orange peel.

1081
00:27:28,458 --> 00:27:29,416
There's an orange peel

1082
00:27:29,416 --> 00:27:30,583
for each person

1083
00:27:30,583 --> 00:27:31,125
that's going to

1084
00:27:31,125 --> 00:27:33,833
strike the right chord with them

1085
00:27:33,833 --> 00:27:35,375
in a way that that matters to them.

1086
00:27:35,375 --> 00:27:37,625
So for example, I've got a friend,

1087
00:27:37,625 --> 00:27:39,083
a really dear old friend

1088
00:27:39,083 --> 00:27:42,083
from school, 90 for 100 years.

1089
00:27:42,125 --> 00:27:43,750
He's a hardcore lefty, works

1090
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:45,333
for the union movement. Right.

1091
00:27:45,333 --> 00:27:47,041
So he's never going to do Bitcoin

1092
00:27:47,041 --> 00:27:47,958
because that's all for,

1093
00:27:47,958 --> 00:27:50,291
like, hardcore capitalists.

1094
00:27:50,291 --> 00:27:52,041
And it's bad for the environment

1095
00:27:52,041 --> 00:27:53,916
and rah rah rah rah. And so.

1096
00:27:56,208 --> 00:27:56,791
So how do I

1097
00:27:56,791 --> 00:27:57,666
how do I orange peel him.

1098
00:27:57,666 --> 00:27:58,041
By the way

1099
00:27:58,041 --> 00:27:59,041
just the other day

1100
00:27:59,041 --> 00:28:01,041
he took out all of his super

1101
00:28:01,041 --> 00:28:02,375
and put it all into Bitcoin

1102
00:28:02,375 --> 00:28:04,833
100% allocation.

1103
00:28:04,833 --> 00:28:05,666
Yeah.

1104
00:28:05,666 --> 00:28:07,791
And what it was a good on him.

1105
00:28:07,791 --> 00:28:10,791
Like he's going to do so well good.

1106
00:28:11,083 --> 00:28:13,666
What it was was I, I

1107
00:28:13,666 --> 00:28:14,416
presented to him

1108
00:28:14,416 --> 00:28:15,583
a bunch of

1109
00:28:15,583 --> 00:28:17,291
information from Daniel's website.

1110
00:28:17,291 --> 00:28:18,333
Actually it's a great resource

1111
00:28:18,333 --> 00:28:19,250
just to sort of say no, it's

1112
00:28:19,250 --> 00:28:20,500
good for the environment

1113
00:28:20,500 --> 00:28:21,166
because that was

1114
00:28:21,166 --> 00:28:22,250
what was going to work for him.

1115
00:28:22,250 --> 00:28:23,000
Now I've got other friends

1116
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,208
who couldn't give stuff about that,

1117
00:28:24,208 --> 00:28:25,125
and that's that's

1118
00:28:25,125 --> 00:28:25,541
never going

1119
00:28:25,541 --> 00:28:27,166
to get them over the line.

1120
00:28:27,166 --> 00:28:30,375
The probably, probably ironically,

1121
00:28:30,375 --> 00:28:32,250
the best marketing for

1122
00:28:32,250 --> 00:28:33,750
it is number go up.

1123
00:28:33,750 --> 00:28:35,583
And we all know it's sort of like,

1124
00:28:35,583 --> 00:28:36,708
yes, that is nice.

1125
00:28:36,708 --> 00:28:38,916
Let's not deny the obvious here.

1126
00:28:38,916 --> 00:28:40,333
None of us is upset when

1127
00:28:40,333 --> 00:28:41,708
that when that happens.

1128
00:28:43,833 --> 00:28:46,708
But it's the one thing that

1129
00:28:46,708 --> 00:28:47,916
no matter who you are

1130
00:28:47,916 --> 00:28:49,791
or what stage of life you're at or

1131
00:28:49,791 --> 00:28:50,416
where abouts

1132
00:28:50,416 --> 00:28:51,708
you are around the world,

1133
00:28:51,708 --> 00:28:52,125
it's hard

1134
00:28:52,125 --> 00:28:54,250
not to notice that at a point

1135
00:28:54,250 --> 00:28:55,416
if the people have done pretty well

1136
00:28:55,416 --> 00:28:56,458
to avoid it through to now,

1137
00:28:56,458 --> 00:28:58,375
but it does become pretty hard

1138
00:28:58,375 --> 00:28:59,625
not to notice.

1139
00:28:59,625 --> 00:29:00,625
And even if you are

1140
00:29:00,625 --> 00:29:03,625
drawn to it, form

1141
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:06,750
reasonably superficial reasons i.e.

1142
00:29:06,750 --> 00:29:09,208
when Lambo.

1143
00:29:09,208 --> 00:29:12,250
We do know that when you when you

1144
00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:13,541
if that's what it is

1145
00:29:13,541 --> 00:29:14,208
that piques your interests

1146
00:29:14,208 --> 00:29:15,500
and that causes you to

1147
00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:17,416
to start pulling at that thread,

1148
00:29:17,416 --> 00:29:18,666
you'll come out the other set

1149
00:29:18,666 --> 00:29:20,333
other and completely rewired

1150
00:29:20,333 --> 00:29:21,458
and and again

1151
00:29:21,458 --> 00:29:23,083
on, on Bitcoin for the,

1152
00:29:23,083 --> 00:29:23,791
for the grander,

1153
00:29:23,791 --> 00:29:25,458
more noble vision that it

1154
00:29:25,458 --> 00:29:26,625
that it represents.

1155
00:29:27,916 --> 00:29:28,583
Yeah.

1156
00:29:28,583 --> 00:29:29,500
What you said really

1157
00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:30,916
resonates with me as well.

1158
00:29:30,916 --> 00:29:32,083
I, I've had, you know,

1159
00:29:32,083 --> 00:29:33,250
countless conversations

1160
00:29:33,250 --> 00:29:33,958
with my family

1161
00:29:33,958 --> 00:29:35,833
who are very much on the left

1162
00:29:35,833 --> 00:29:37,458
and they think of me

1163
00:29:37,458 --> 00:29:39,500
as this like right wing nut.

1164
00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:41,041
But I'm not a right wing mother.

1165
00:29:41,041 --> 00:29:42,875
I'm, you know, like I'm

1166
00:29:42,875 --> 00:29:44,416
an extreme centrist.

1167
00:29:44,416 --> 00:29:45,916
Is one of my great friends.

1168
00:29:45,916 --> 00:29:47,208
Calls me,

1169
00:29:47,208 --> 00:29:48,333
just right of center

1170
00:29:48,333 --> 00:29:50,625
economically, but, you know,

1171
00:29:50,625 --> 00:29:51,583
left of center

1172
00:29:51,583 --> 00:29:52,750
when it comes to, like, values.

1173
00:29:52,750 --> 00:29:54,500
I want everyone to be looked after.

1174
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:55,750
And I want us to say.

1175
00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:57,875
The same about myself. Yeah.

1176
00:29:57,875 --> 00:29:59,375
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1177
00:29:59,375 --> 00:30:00,708
So I understand why

1178
00:30:00,708 --> 00:30:02,500
it can be a bit alienating

1179
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:04,666
for those on, on, on the left.

1180
00:30:04,666 --> 00:30:06,583
And this is another reason

1181
00:30:06,583 --> 00:30:07,875
why I've started my podcast.

1182
00:30:07,875 --> 00:30:08,416
I was like,

1183
00:30:08,416 --> 00:30:11,083
welcome, this is great for everyone.

1184
00:30:11,083 --> 00:30:12,208
But it's interesting

1185
00:30:12,208 --> 00:30:13,625
because my auntie said to me,

1186
00:30:14,625 --> 00:30:15,166
she's like, you talk

1187
00:30:15,166 --> 00:30:16,416
about Bitcoin a lot.

1188
00:30:16,416 --> 00:30:18,500
And, you know,

1189
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:19,375
she said something along

1190
00:30:19,375 --> 00:30:20,208
the lines of like, it's

1191
00:30:20,208 --> 00:30:22,208
kind of like tasteless,

1192
00:30:22,208 --> 00:30:22,916
quote unquote

1193
00:30:22,916 --> 00:30:24,583
tasteless to speak about money

1194
00:30:24,583 --> 00:30:25,416
in that way

1195
00:30:25,416 --> 00:30:27,041
because it is very much like

1196
00:30:27,041 --> 00:30:27,791
it is crass.

1197
00:30:27,791 --> 00:30:29,958
It is not a nice thing to like,

1198
00:30:29,958 --> 00:30:31,291
talk about money.

1199
00:30:31,291 --> 00:30:32,791
But to me, I'm not talking

1200
00:30:32,791 --> 00:30:34,125
when I talk about Bitcoin.

1201
00:30:34,125 --> 00:30:35,208
I'm not here about Bitcoin.

1202
00:30:35,208 --> 00:30:36,250
The asset,

1203
00:30:36,250 --> 00:30:37,208
I'm talking about bitcoin,

1204
00:30:37,208 --> 00:30:37,875
the protocol.

1205
00:30:37,875 --> 00:30:40,875
That's what gets me excited.

1206
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,958
Obviously bitcoin the asset has done

1207
00:30:43,958 --> 00:30:45,000
very well for me.

1208
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,375
And I want other people

1209
00:30:46,375 --> 00:30:48,000
to learn about Bitcoin, the protocol

1210
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,416
so they can potentially benefit

1211
00:30:49,416 --> 00:30:51,041
from Bitcoin the asset.

1212
00:30:51,041 --> 00:30:52,666
And

1213
00:30:52,666 --> 00:30:55,000
yeah but I do question as well

1214
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,416
like how do you appeal to people.

1215
00:30:56,416 --> 00:30:58,291
You appeal to their greed.

1216
00:30:58,291 --> 00:31:01,666
Do you appeal to the self-interest

1217
00:31:01,666 --> 00:31:02,125
in order

1218
00:31:02,125 --> 00:31:03,708
to get them to

1219
00:31:03,708 --> 00:31:04,750
allocate a little bit?

1220
00:31:04,750 --> 00:31:05,541
And then once,

1221
00:31:05,541 --> 00:31:07,125
even if you have a small allocation,

1222
00:31:07,125 --> 00:31:08,750
you kind of start obsessing about it

1223
00:31:08,750 --> 00:31:10,041
and following the price and

1224
00:31:10,041 --> 00:31:10,541
like, okay,

1225
00:31:10,541 --> 00:31:11,083
and then you

1226
00:31:11,083 --> 00:31:12,250
want to know more about it.

1227
00:31:12,250 --> 00:31:12,583
So I'm like,

1228
00:31:12,583 --> 00:31:14,750
is that a roundabout way

1229
00:31:14,750 --> 00:31:16,458
to get them to understand

1230
00:31:16,458 --> 00:31:18,416
the revolution, the philosophy,

1231
00:31:18,416 --> 00:31:20,833
the morality behind this magic

1232
00:31:20,833 --> 00:31:22,208
internet money.

1233
00:31:22,208 --> 00:31:22,541
Yeah.

1234
00:31:22,541 --> 00:31:23,000
You got

1235
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:23,625
we've got almost

1236
00:31:23,625 --> 00:31:25,333
got to be like a drug dealer. Right.

1237
00:31:25,333 --> 00:31:25,833
Whereas yeah,

1238
00:31:25,833 --> 00:31:27,250
the first taste is free.

1239
00:31:27,250 --> 00:31:28,000
Have a little bit,

1240
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,958
just have a little bit of bitcoin

1241
00:31:29,958 --> 00:31:30,666
you know, and because,

1242
00:31:30,666 --> 00:31:31,875
because you know

1243
00:31:31,875 --> 00:31:32,833
because you know that once

1244
00:31:32,833 --> 00:31:34,583
you have a taste of it

1245
00:31:34,583 --> 00:31:36,125
you want more of it. Right.

1246
00:31:36,125 --> 00:31:38,375
And and I know that sounds aroma.

1247
00:31:38,375 --> 00:31:38,666
You know

1248
00:31:38,666 --> 00:31:40,583
I'm not being entirely serious

1249
00:31:40,583 --> 00:31:42,000
but it's not a terrible it's

1250
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,208
not a terrible analogy because,

1251
00:31:46,375 --> 00:31:48,291
you just it's just human nature.

1252
00:31:48,291 --> 00:31:49,958
You're going to pay more attention

1253
00:31:49,958 --> 00:31:50,500
to something

1254
00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:50,833
where you've got

1255
00:31:50,833 --> 00:31:52,291
a bit of a exposure to.

1256
00:31:52,291 --> 00:31:52,666
Right?

1257
00:31:52,666 --> 00:31:53,333
Like it's

1258
00:31:53,333 --> 00:31:54,416
it's just it's

1259
00:31:54,416 --> 00:31:55,250
for the same reason

1260
00:31:55,250 --> 00:31:57,041
of playing online poker with fake

1261
00:31:57,041 --> 00:31:59,750
money is never, ever the real thing

1262
00:31:59,750 --> 00:32:00,333
because, you know,

1263
00:32:00,333 --> 00:32:01,333
you were going to.

1264
00:32:01,333 --> 00:32:02,833
I'm a brilliant poker player

1265
00:32:02,833 --> 00:32:03,791
when it comes to play money.

1266
00:32:03,791 --> 00:32:05,041
I'm an awful poker player

1267
00:32:05,041 --> 00:32:05,583
with real money

1268
00:32:05,583 --> 00:32:07,166
because it's different, right?

1269
00:32:07,166 --> 00:32:08,583
And it's the same with Bitcoin.

1270
00:32:08,583 --> 00:32:09,583
It's like you can watch it

1271
00:32:09,583 --> 00:32:10,958
and observe it from the outside

1272
00:32:10,958 --> 00:32:12,125
all you like,

1273
00:32:12,125 --> 00:32:13,125
but once you

1274
00:32:13,125 --> 00:32:15,375
have direct exposure to it,

1275
00:32:15,375 --> 00:32:16,833
you you're just going to pay

1276
00:32:16,833 --> 00:32:18,250
a little bit more attention.

1277
00:32:18,250 --> 00:32:19,666
And I actually think that's the

1278
00:32:19,666 --> 00:32:20,416
the other point

1279
00:32:20,416 --> 00:32:22,125
that I try to hit on again

1280
00:32:22,125 --> 00:32:23,416
just this morning,

1281
00:32:23,416 --> 00:32:25,166
speaking to someone,

1282
00:32:25,166 --> 00:32:27,333
making the case for it as I do,

1283
00:32:27,333 --> 00:32:28,166
they weren't they weren't

1284
00:32:28,166 --> 00:32:29,208
they didn't want to talk about it,

1285
00:32:29,208 --> 00:32:29,958
but they were going to

1286
00:32:29,958 --> 00:32:32,833
talk about it with me and and

1287
00:32:34,333 --> 00:32:35,708
they, they, they

1288
00:32:35,708 --> 00:32:36,750
almost approached as well.

1289
00:32:36,750 --> 00:32:37,958
If I like this thing

1290
00:32:37,958 --> 00:32:38,958
or if I do this thing,

1291
00:32:38,958 --> 00:32:40,750
I have to go all in

1292
00:32:40,750 --> 00:32:42,500
and I think, no, you don't like,

1293
00:32:42,500 --> 00:32:44,583
you can take a 1% position,

1294
00:32:44,583 --> 00:32:45,708
a half a percent,

1295
00:32:45,708 --> 00:32:47,125
half a percent position,

1296
00:32:47,125 --> 00:32:49,000
just something, just dip

1297
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:50,666
the toe in the water.

1298
00:32:50,666 --> 00:32:51,375
And frankly,

1299
00:32:51,375 --> 00:32:54,500
the asymmetry on this is so insane.

1300
00:32:55,083 --> 00:32:56,125
I mean, I,

1301
00:32:56,125 --> 00:32:58,250
I, I'd be very sympathetic

1302
00:32:58,250 --> 00:32:59,125
an understanding

1303
00:32:59,125 --> 00:32:59,500
of someone

1304
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:00,166
who decides that they don't

1305
00:33:00,166 --> 00:33:01,458
want to put 80% of their net wealth

1306
00:33:01,458 --> 00:33:02,416
into Bitcoin, particularly

1307
00:33:02,416 --> 00:33:03,250
if they're new on the journey.

1308
00:33:03,250 --> 00:33:03,875
Right, I get it.

1309
00:33:03,875 --> 00:33:07,000
It's it feels crazy and reckless.

1310
00:33:07,583 --> 00:33:09,166
But 1% is kind of

1311
00:33:09,166 --> 00:33:10,750
at that point where,

1312
00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:11,541
okay, maybe

1313
00:33:11,541 --> 00:33:13,250
this is a pile of hot

1314
00:33:13,250 --> 00:33:15,125
air and okay, it's 1%.

1315
00:33:15,125 --> 00:33:16,333
It's like a daily fluctuation

1316
00:33:16,333 --> 00:33:17,875
on anyone's portfolio.

1317
00:33:17,875 --> 00:33:19,041
But if it's right,

1318
00:33:19,041 --> 00:33:21,875
I mean, the upside is it

1319
00:33:21,875 --> 00:33:23,000
the total addressable

1320
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,500
market is probably $500

1321
00:33:24,500 --> 00:33:26,000
trillion in value.

1322
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,875
And where it right.

1323
00:33:27,875 --> 00:33:30,416
So there's a 250 potential upside.

1324
00:33:30,416 --> 00:33:31,708
You know whatever you pick

1325
00:33:31,708 --> 00:33:32,833
whatever target that you want.

1326
00:33:32,833 --> 00:33:34,125
But it's a it's a big tug.

1327
00:33:34,125 --> 00:33:35,208
Even if you say just

1328
00:33:35,208 --> 00:33:36,916
all it does is replace gold.

1329
00:33:36,916 --> 00:33:38,875
There's there's a10x there.

1330
00:33:38,875 --> 00:33:40,416
And what's the downside?

1331
00:33:40,416 --> 00:33:41,041
I mean, I guess, well,

1332
00:33:41,041 --> 00:33:41,458
the downside is

1333
00:33:41,458 --> 00:33:43,541
100% at the most extreme.

1334
00:33:43,541 --> 00:33:44,458
So I could,

1335
00:33:44,458 --> 00:33:45,958
you know, heads,

1336
00:33:45,958 --> 00:33:47,500
I lose my 1% position.

1337
00:33:47,500 --> 00:33:49,333
I really don't notice it.

1338
00:33:49,333 --> 00:33:50,083
Or tails.

1339
00:33:50,083 --> 00:33:51,500
And I make a material difference

1340
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:52,500
to me

1341
00:33:52,500 --> 00:33:54,208
and my progeny for now,

1342
00:33:54,208 --> 00:33:55,333
until the end of time.

1343
00:33:55,333 --> 00:33:55,958
It's like,

1344
00:33:55,958 --> 00:33:58,750
how do you not do that, right?

1345
00:33:58,750 --> 00:33:59,750
I mean, I have had a friend

1346
00:33:59,750 --> 00:34:00,250
push back

1347
00:34:00,250 --> 00:34:02,000
on that argument before and say,

1348
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,000
well, by that rationale,

1349
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,583
I should by every biotech

1350
00:34:05,583 --> 00:34:07,000
hopeful, because maybe they

1351
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,000
they do invent the cure for cancer.

1352
00:34:10,333 --> 00:34:12,041
And that's it's a good it's

1353
00:34:12,041 --> 00:34:13,083
it's a good pushback

1354
00:34:13,083 --> 00:34:14,833
except and I think it was a

1355
00:34:14,833 --> 00:34:16,000
it was an exceptionally good

1356
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:16,541
push back.

1357
00:34:16,541 --> 00:34:18,541
If this was 2014,

1358
00:34:18,541 --> 00:34:19,375
back when

1359
00:34:19,375 --> 00:34:21,625
Bitcoin was young and fragile

1360
00:34:21,625 --> 00:34:22,375
and a million things

1361
00:34:22,375 --> 00:34:23,666
could have gone wrong with it,

1362
00:34:23,666 --> 00:34:26,333
and thank goodness it did, it

1363
00:34:26,333 --> 00:34:27,291
in 2025.

1364
00:34:27,291 --> 00:34:28,958
It's it's a spurious argument.

1365
00:34:30,041 --> 00:34:31,208
You know, when it's this

1366
00:34:31,208 --> 00:34:33,708
weird thing on Silk Road,

1367
00:34:33,708 --> 00:34:36,708
you know, like maybe when it's,

1368
00:34:37,208 --> 00:34:39,833
$2.5 trillion asset

1369
00:34:39,833 --> 00:34:42,166
held by hundreds of companies,

1370
00:34:42,166 --> 00:34:43,625
fortune 500 companies,

1371
00:34:43,625 --> 00:34:45,000
listed companies.

1372
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:45,708
When the president

1373
00:34:45,708 --> 00:34:46,666
of the United States

1374
00:34:46,666 --> 00:34:49,000
just bought $3 billion worth,

1375
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,458
and sovereign nations

1376
00:34:50,458 --> 00:34:51,833
are acquiring it.

1377
00:34:51,833 --> 00:34:53,875
And Larry Fink at Blackrock

1378
00:34:53,875 --> 00:34:55,416
is there on CNBC

1379
00:34:55,416 --> 00:34:56,708
telling you how great this is.

1380
00:34:56,708 --> 00:34:57,208
Like,

1381
00:34:57,208 --> 00:34:58,458
at this point,

1382
00:34:58,458 --> 00:34:59,500
this is no longer

1383
00:34:59,500 --> 00:35:00,958
the moonshot

1384
00:35:00,958 --> 00:35:03,750
speccy penny stock that might do it.

1385
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:06,750
This is this is more akin to

1386
00:35:06,958 --> 00:35:07,750
an apple

1387
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:08,791
that has now

1388
00:35:08,791 --> 00:35:09,916
on the second iteration

1389
00:35:09,916 --> 00:35:10,666
of the iPhone.

1390
00:35:10,666 --> 00:35:11,208
Yes, it's

1391
00:35:11,208 --> 00:35:12,625
still relatively early

1392
00:35:12,625 --> 00:35:14,208
in its overall journey,

1393
00:35:14,208 --> 00:35:16,333
but where will be on the point of,

1394
00:35:16,333 --> 00:35:17,458
of, of it

1395
00:35:17,458 --> 00:35:19,291
just being a crappy crap shot that,

1396
00:35:19,291 --> 00:35:20,750
you know, may or may not pay off.

1397
00:35:20,750 --> 00:35:22,250
So, you know,

1398
00:35:22,250 --> 00:35:23,541
that's that's the part

1399
00:35:23,541 --> 00:35:24,416
that I wrestle with.

1400
00:35:24,416 --> 00:35:25,458
I completely,

1401
00:35:25,458 --> 00:35:26,708
particularly in my world

1402
00:35:26,708 --> 00:35:27,375
and with the,

1403
00:35:27,375 --> 00:35:28,041
the investors

1404
00:35:28,041 --> 00:35:29,625
that the traditional investors

1405
00:35:29,625 --> 00:35:31,250
that I know, I get it, you know,

1406
00:35:31,250 --> 00:35:32,125
you guys are never going

1407
00:35:32,125 --> 00:35:33,791
to go all in. That's fine.

1408
00:35:33,791 --> 00:35:35,958
But how do you not take 1%,

1409
00:35:35,958 --> 00:35:37,250
half a half a percent,

1410
00:35:37,250 --> 00:35:38,416
point one of a percent,

1411
00:35:38,416 --> 00:35:39,000
for God sake,

1412
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:40,291
you have $10 million,

1413
00:35:40,291 --> 00:35:43,125
like by ten grand with like and not.

1414
00:35:43,125 --> 00:35:44,625
And not because, you know, it's a

1415
00:35:44,625 --> 00:35:45,500
a bit of play money

1416
00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:46,791
that you might go up and out

1417
00:35:46,791 --> 00:35:48,041
just because it will

1418
00:35:48,041 --> 00:35:49,541
force you to take a bit more,

1419
00:35:50,583 --> 00:35:52,416
pay a bit more attention to it.

1420
00:35:52,416 --> 00:35:55,416
And I'm just confident that that

1421
00:35:55,416 --> 00:35:57,291
for most people, once again,

1422
00:35:57,291 --> 00:35:58,750
once you get that first taste,

1423
00:35:58,750 --> 00:35:59,166
you'll be

1424
00:35:59,166 --> 00:36:00,166
you'll be calling the dealer out

1425
00:36:00,166 --> 00:36:02,250
for some more pretty soon. Right?

1426
00:36:02,250 --> 00:36:03,166
Yeah.

1427
00:36:03,166 --> 00:36:03,666
And speaking

1428
00:36:03,666 --> 00:36:05,208
of traditional investors,

1429
00:36:05,208 --> 00:36:06,958
I don't know if you saw this

1430
00:36:06,958 --> 00:36:08,041
quite recent news,

1431
00:36:08,041 --> 00:36:09,041
but Ray Dalio

1432
00:36:09,041 --> 00:36:12,166
now is recommending a 15 around 15%

1433
00:36:12,166 --> 00:36:14,833
to gold all bitcoin. So big dollar.

1434
00:36:14,833 --> 00:36:17,291
Either all or combination of both

1435
00:36:17,291 --> 00:36:19,708
which is quite significant.

1436
00:36:19,708 --> 00:36:21,541
He I follow him on Instagram

1437
00:36:21,541 --> 00:36:23,291
and on Twitter and on LinkedIn.

1438
00:36:23,291 --> 00:36:26,291
And I love the work that he's done,

1439
00:36:26,291 --> 00:36:26,708
you know, in

1440
00:36:26,708 --> 00:36:27,875
how nation states

1441
00:36:27,875 --> 00:36:29,958
lose money or go broke.

1442
00:36:29,958 --> 00:36:30,958
I can't remember the exact

1443
00:36:30,958 --> 00:36:33,208
title of it now.

1444
00:36:33,208 --> 00:36:34,958
But he very much understands

1445
00:36:34,958 --> 00:36:36,458
the problem that America

1446
00:36:36,458 --> 00:36:38,583
is facing with the debt

1447
00:36:38,583 --> 00:36:39,291
that's completely

1448
00:36:39,291 --> 00:36:40,458
gone out of control.

1449
00:36:40,458 --> 00:36:41,916
It's not sustainable.

1450
00:36:41,916 --> 00:36:42,875
It's it's

1451
00:36:42,875 --> 00:36:44,458
not headed in a good direction.

1452
00:36:44,458 --> 00:36:45,916
I don't think it can be managed.

1453
00:36:45,916 --> 00:36:47,833
So they're they're facing

1454
00:36:47,833 --> 00:36:49,291
some serious risks.

1455
00:36:49,291 --> 00:36:52,041
So for them it makes sense.

1456
00:36:52,041 --> 00:36:53,125
What's interesting to me,

1457
00:36:53,125 --> 00:36:53,583
though, is

1458
00:36:53,583 --> 00:36:55,083
how many of the gold bugs

1459
00:36:55,083 --> 00:36:56,625
who sort of understand

1460
00:36:56,625 --> 00:36:57,791
hard money and sound

1461
00:36:57,791 --> 00:36:59,625
money principles

1462
00:36:59,625 --> 00:37:00,625
aren't necessarily

1463
00:37:00,625 --> 00:37:01,541
yet orange pilled.

1464
00:37:01,541 --> 00:37:01,958
I was like,

1465
00:37:01,958 --> 00:37:02,833
I would have thought

1466
00:37:02,833 --> 00:37:03,416
that they would be

1467
00:37:03,416 --> 00:37:05,625
the easy ones to just like,

1468
00:37:05,625 --> 00:37:06,541
I get it.

1469
00:37:06,541 --> 00:37:07,750
But no,

1470
00:37:07,750 --> 00:37:10,750
it's really like the tangible stuff.

1471
00:37:11,041 --> 00:37:11,625
Yeah.

1472
00:37:11,625 --> 00:37:14,083
I mean, yeah, and it is, it is hard.

1473
00:37:14,083 --> 00:37:15,375
But yeah, it's really hard. Right?

1474
00:37:15,375 --> 00:37:16,166
You would expect

1475
00:37:16,166 --> 00:37:17,291
them to be the ones who,

1476
00:37:17,291 --> 00:37:18,750
who would Crocket

1477
00:37:18,750 --> 00:37:20,291
sooner than everyone else.

1478
00:37:20,291 --> 00:37:23,291
But look Dalio big fan of Dalio.

1479
00:37:23,916 --> 00:37:27,166
He's I mean he started

1480
00:37:27,166 --> 00:37:28,541
the biggest hedge fund in the world.

1481
00:37:28,541 --> 00:37:30,000
He's been phenomenally successful

1482
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:30,791
as an investor.

1483
00:37:30,791 --> 00:37:33,916
And I was always a fan of his

1484
00:37:33,916 --> 00:37:34,458
because he,

1485
00:37:34,458 --> 00:37:36,541
he had this wonderful

1486
00:37:36,541 --> 00:37:38,750
philosophy with investing,

1487
00:37:38,750 --> 00:37:40,041
which was basically

1488
00:37:40,041 --> 00:37:41,416
I might be wrong.

1489
00:37:41,416 --> 00:37:44,000
And my job is to in your job,

1490
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:44,625
if you work for me,

1491
00:37:44,625 --> 00:37:46,208
is to convince me that I am wrong

1492
00:37:46,208 --> 00:37:47,625
because he's

1493
00:37:47,625 --> 00:37:49,333
we all see confirmation

1494
00:37:49,333 --> 00:37:51,375
bias and it's just how we're wired.

1495
00:37:51,375 --> 00:37:53,666
And he recognized that

1496
00:37:53,666 --> 00:37:56,208
and and structured everything

1497
00:37:56,208 --> 00:37:57,583
his firm around

1498
00:37:57,583 --> 00:38:00,125
trying to disprove an idea.

1499
00:38:00,125 --> 00:38:01,291
I've built an entire business

1500
00:38:01,291 --> 00:38:02,416
on that very principle,

1501
00:38:02,416 --> 00:38:03,625
which is, you know,

1502
00:38:03,625 --> 00:38:04,416
if you can't destroy

1503
00:38:04,416 --> 00:38:05,458
an investment thesis, it's

1504
00:38:05,458 --> 00:38:06,625
probably a good investment thesis.

1505
00:38:06,625 --> 00:38:07,208
You know,

1506
00:38:07,208 --> 00:38:08,000
I always start

1507
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:08,916
with the proposition of,

1508
00:38:08,916 --> 00:38:09,916
here's something I like now,

1509
00:38:09,916 --> 00:38:11,708
please kill it for me.

1510
00:38:11,708 --> 00:38:12,791
And if you can't kill it,

1511
00:38:12,791 --> 00:38:13,708
then I'm going to buy it

1512
00:38:13,708 --> 00:38:15,041
because it's probably a good idea.

1513
00:38:15,041 --> 00:38:16,666
So I love I love his thinking.

1514
00:38:16,666 --> 00:38:17,000
And that's

1515
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,375
how he's come at a Bitcoin.

1516
00:38:18,375 --> 00:38:20,833
I've heard him speak previously

1517
00:38:20,833 --> 00:38:21,916
about that.

1518
00:38:21,916 --> 00:38:22,625
But the other thing

1519
00:38:22,625 --> 00:38:23,625
that's really fascinating

1520
00:38:23,625 --> 00:38:24,916
about Dalio and he's

1521
00:38:24,916 --> 00:38:26,291
unusual in this regard,

1522
00:38:26,291 --> 00:38:27,458
is that

1523
00:38:27,458 --> 00:38:29,791
his lens for looking at world

1524
00:38:29,791 --> 00:38:32,791
events is much broader

1525
00:38:32,791 --> 00:38:35,000
than most people on Wall Street.

1526
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,041
In fact, most economists, you know.

1527
00:38:37,041 --> 00:38:39,166
So if you talk about 1943,

1528
00:38:39,166 --> 00:38:40,375
as far as any economist

1529
00:38:40,375 --> 00:38:40,791
who's come out

1530
00:38:40,791 --> 00:38:42,708
of additional institution

1531
00:38:42,708 --> 00:38:43,333
these days, that

1532
00:38:43,333 --> 00:38:44,000
that was

1533
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:44,625
it might as well be done at

1534
00:38:44,625 --> 00:38:45,208
the Stone age

1535
00:38:45,208 --> 00:38:45,666
is like

1536
00:38:45,666 --> 00:38:47,333
completely irrelevant to what

1537
00:38:47,333 --> 00:38:49,291
we sophisticated modern people,

1538
00:38:50,791 --> 00:38:52,875
doing and what is relevant to us

1539
00:38:52,875 --> 00:38:54,041
that he's, he's

1540
00:38:54,041 --> 00:38:54,500
going back

1541
00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:55,750
thousands of years

1542
00:38:55,750 --> 00:38:56,375
and just,

1543
00:38:56,375 --> 00:38:58,291
you know, studied history and,

1544
00:38:58,291 --> 00:39:00,250
and it's my general

1545
00:39:00,250 --> 00:39:01,125
it's a general truism

1546
00:39:01,125 --> 00:39:02,250
for economists in general.

1547
00:39:02,250 --> 00:39:04,125
The best economists,

1548
00:39:04,125 --> 00:39:07,375
the best macro thinkers are informed

1549
00:39:07,375 --> 00:39:09,250
heavily by history

1550
00:39:09,250 --> 00:39:11,750
because history is a great teacher.

1551
00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:14,166
I'll shout out to, Russell Napier,

1552
00:39:14,166 --> 00:39:15,375
who I really like as well.

1553
00:39:15,375 --> 00:39:16,750
He's from the Library of Mistakes.

1554
00:39:16,750 --> 00:39:18,375
He runs a consulting firm.

1555
00:39:18,375 --> 00:39:19,208
He's not a Bitcoin.

1556
00:39:19,208 --> 00:39:20,375
Not yet, I don't

1557
00:39:20,375 --> 00:39:20,625
I feel like

1558
00:39:20,625 --> 00:39:21,125
he's got a

1559
00:39:21,125 --> 00:39:23,666
he's got to be getting close.

1560
00:39:23,666 --> 00:39:25,125
But I love what he says

1561
00:39:25,125 --> 00:39:26,083
and his framework

1562
00:39:26,083 --> 00:39:26,791
for looking at the world

1563
00:39:26,791 --> 00:39:28,791
because it's, it's that we can

1564
00:39:28,791 --> 00:39:30,250
we can sort of,

1565
00:39:30,250 --> 00:39:31,291
you know,

1566
00:39:31,291 --> 00:39:32,625
shout at each other all day long

1567
00:39:32,625 --> 00:39:32,958
as to what

1568
00:39:32,958 --> 00:39:33,875
we think's going to happen

1569
00:39:33,875 --> 00:39:35,666
and just be informed by our ideology

1570
00:39:35,666 --> 00:39:36,666
and just the way we think

1571
00:39:36,666 --> 00:39:38,000
the world should work.

1572
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,000
But the people who approach it with,

1573
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,750
armed with the lessons of history,

1574
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:42,458
just standard,

1575
00:39:42,458 --> 00:39:45,166
so much more solid ground,

1576
00:39:45,166 --> 00:39:46,375
because there is something

1577
00:39:46,375 --> 00:39:47,791
to be said of like

1578
00:39:47,791 --> 00:39:48,916
and this is what Dalio does.

1579
00:39:48,916 --> 00:39:50,500
Look, every single time

1580
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:51,708
this set of circumstances

1581
00:39:51,708 --> 00:39:53,166
has happened in history,

1582
00:39:53,166 --> 00:39:54,791
this has been the result.

1583
00:39:54,791 --> 00:39:57,625
Now it's not physics, it's it's it's

1584
00:39:57,625 --> 00:39:59,166
not a quark or a gluon.

1585
00:39:59,166 --> 00:40:00,083
Like that

1586
00:40:00,083 --> 00:40:02,208
doesn't necessarily guarantee that

1587
00:40:02,208 --> 00:40:03,375
that that must forever

1588
00:40:03,375 --> 00:40:04,791
and always be true.

1589
00:40:04,791 --> 00:40:05,833
But for the love of God,

1590
00:40:05,833 --> 00:40:08,166
it should suggest that maybe,

1591
00:40:08,166 --> 00:40:08,791
you know,

1592
00:40:08,791 --> 00:40:09,500
Jesus happened

1593
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:12,208
every every time A is happened.

1594
00:40:12,208 --> 00:40:13,375
B is followed.

1595
00:40:13,375 --> 00:40:15,666
It might at the very least

1596
00:40:16,625 --> 00:40:19,083
pay to take that idea seriously.

1597
00:40:19,083 --> 00:40:20,458
And that's why he's so passionate

1598
00:40:20,458 --> 00:40:21,750
about where he feels

1599
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:22,458
is how it's going

1600
00:40:22,458 --> 00:40:24,250
is because he's informed from that,

1601
00:40:24,250 --> 00:40:26,125
from that experience, from history.

1602
00:40:26,125 --> 00:40:27,083
And if anyone cares

1603
00:40:27,083 --> 00:40:28,541
to take a look at that stuff,

1604
00:40:28,541 --> 00:40:29,416
you'll be

1605
00:40:29,416 --> 00:40:32,000
you'll be on a, you'll be in a it's

1606
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,708
a serious competitive edge

1607
00:40:33,708 --> 00:40:35,333
in investing and economics.

1608
00:40:35,333 --> 00:40:36,500
But so few people do it

1609
00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:38,000
because history's over there

1610
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,875
and economics is over here.

1611
00:40:39,875 --> 00:40:41,375
But that that really,

1612
00:40:41,375 --> 00:40:43,333
you know, one informs the other.

1613
00:40:43,333 --> 00:40:45,000
Very much so.

1614
00:41:04,583 --> 00:41:05,166
Yeah.

1615
00:41:05,166 --> 00:41:06,791
I absolutely love that analogy

1616
00:41:06,791 --> 00:41:09,041
that you just use because,

1617
00:41:09,041 --> 00:41:11,583
I think that has meant

1618
00:41:11,583 --> 00:41:13,458
it's meant a lot in my life as well.

1619
00:41:13,458 --> 00:41:15,500
Understanding the history of money

1620
00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:18,500
is what made me value Bitcoin.

1621
00:41:18,583 --> 00:41:20,458
So even though Bitcoin, I mean,

1622
00:41:20,458 --> 00:41:20,791
you know,

1623
00:41:20,791 --> 00:41:22,375
got created in 2008

1624
00:41:22,375 --> 00:41:24,416
and launched in 2009,

1625
00:41:24,416 --> 00:41:25,583
you'd think we don't.

1626
00:41:25,583 --> 00:41:27,000
We need to dismiss the history

1627
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:27,916
in order to understand.

1628
00:41:27,916 --> 00:41:29,541
But it's the it's the fact

1629
00:41:29,541 --> 00:41:30,250
that I learned

1630
00:41:30,250 --> 00:41:31,250
the history of money

1631
00:41:31,250 --> 00:41:32,291
that made me understand

1632
00:41:32,291 --> 00:41:34,083
why this is now money.

1633
00:41:34,083 --> 00:41:35,583
This is going to, you know,

1634
00:41:37,041 --> 00:41:38,083
so it's it's

1635
00:41:38,083 --> 00:41:39,916
such an important point to make.

1636
00:41:39,916 --> 00:41:42,375
And you see. Right, I do 100% agree.

1637
00:41:42,375 --> 00:41:43,500
That's what doubt dollars

1638
00:41:43,500 --> 00:41:45,208
shines at is understanding.

1639
00:41:45,208 --> 00:41:47,458
Like, you know, you always zooms out

1640
00:41:47,458 --> 00:41:50,291
and it's the zooming out looking at,

1641
00:41:50,291 --> 00:41:51,583
you know, history as well

1642
00:41:51,583 --> 00:41:54,000
that makes it so important.

1643
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,333
Can I give you another understand?

1644
00:41:56,333 --> 00:41:57,666
Yeah. I'm I'm so sorry.

1645
00:41:57,666 --> 00:41:58,583
I think there's a little bit of

1646
00:41:58,583 --> 00:41:59,500
a bias

1647
00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:00,708
I, I keep I,

1648
00:42:00,708 --> 00:42:02,000
I'm sorry to talk over you.

1649
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,000
I it's the delay, I think,

1650
00:42:06,625 --> 00:42:09,083
so I think one thing that's

1651
00:42:09,083 --> 00:42:10,125
surprising to people

1652
00:42:10,125 --> 00:42:10,958
and again, it's surprising

1653
00:42:10,958 --> 00:42:11,958
because we don't come at it

1654
00:42:11,958 --> 00:42:12,291
through this

1655
00:42:12,291 --> 00:42:13,583
historical lens, is the

1656
00:42:13,583 --> 00:42:16,583
we look at the modern fiat system.

1657
00:42:16,833 --> 00:42:17,250
In fact, it's

1658
00:42:17,250 --> 00:42:18,916
not even if most people start, I,

1659
00:42:18,916 --> 00:42:19,541
I don't even know

1660
00:42:19,541 --> 00:42:20,375
what the word fed is.

1661
00:42:20,375 --> 00:42:21,791
It's just the system.

1662
00:42:21,791 --> 00:42:22,541
But the system

1663
00:42:22,541 --> 00:42:23,875
that they were born into

1664
00:42:23,875 --> 00:42:26,208
and their parents were born into,

1665
00:42:26,208 --> 00:42:26,541
you know,

1666
00:42:26,541 --> 00:42:27,833
it was sort of like

1667
00:42:27,833 --> 00:42:29,375
eternal and forever.

1668
00:42:29,375 --> 00:42:30,916
And we've always done it this way.

1669
00:42:30,916 --> 00:42:31,708
Why are we going to

1670
00:42:31,708 --> 00:42:32,750
this Bitcoin thing

1671
00:42:32,750 --> 00:42:35,041
when we've always done it that way?

1672
00:42:35,041 --> 00:42:36,125
And I so,

1673
00:42:36,125 --> 00:42:37,250
so having this conversation

1674
00:42:37,250 --> 00:42:37,833
with a friend,

1675
00:42:37,833 --> 00:42:39,208
it's like what do you mean with like

1676
00:42:39,208 --> 00:42:40,666
it's less than 50 years old.

1677
00:42:40,666 --> 00:42:41,958
Not always

1678
00:42:41,958 --> 00:42:43,125
not less than but

1679
00:42:43,125 --> 00:42:45,583
like it's 20 it's 54 years old

1680
00:42:45,583 --> 00:42:47,416
because it was only in 1971

1681
00:42:47,416 --> 00:42:49,291
that we went off the gold standard.

1682
00:42:49,291 --> 00:42:50,708
And even if you want to be

1683
00:42:50,708 --> 00:42:51,166
in, say like,

1684
00:42:51,166 --> 00:42:52,458
we kind of really went off it

1685
00:42:52,458 --> 00:42:54,458
before that and arguably

1686
00:42:54,458 --> 00:42:56,166
we did it still, in

1687
00:42:56,166 --> 00:42:57,541
terms of the historical,

1688
00:42:58,666 --> 00:43:01,541
the great arc of history, it's such,

1689
00:43:01,541 --> 00:43:04,541
it's such an incredibly recent,

1690
00:43:05,208 --> 00:43:07,875
phenomena to have pure fiat money

1691
00:43:07,875 --> 00:43:08,416
and pure

1692
00:43:08,416 --> 00:43:09,666
fiat, really from the, from,

1693
00:43:09,666 --> 00:43:12,791
from the 70s onwards and, and

1694
00:43:13,458 --> 00:43:14,833
and that shocks a lot of people.

1695
00:43:14,833 --> 00:43:15,750
And I shocked me

1696
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:16,666
when I learned about it.

1697
00:43:16,666 --> 00:43:17,500
Oh, it's like,

1698
00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:20,500
oh, this is what we're doing now

1699
00:43:20,958 --> 00:43:22,458
is younger than my grandfather.

1700
00:43:22,458 --> 00:43:23,291
Like that is

1701
00:43:23,291 --> 00:43:24,291
that is not

1702
00:43:24,291 --> 00:43:24,583
you know,

1703
00:43:24,583 --> 00:43:26,833
I was born in 1975,

1704
00:43:26,833 --> 00:43:29,208
so I was four years old,

1705
00:43:29,208 --> 00:43:30,291
you know, like four years

1706
00:43:30,291 --> 00:43:31,666
before I was born.

1707
00:43:31,666 --> 00:43:32,625
We we,

1708
00:43:32,625 --> 00:43:35,208
we can totally change the foundation

1709
00:43:35,208 --> 00:43:36,916
of the financial system.

1710
00:43:36,916 --> 00:43:39,041
And you feel you feel like something

1711
00:43:39,041 --> 00:43:40,916
that's seismic and something

1712
00:43:40,916 --> 00:43:42,916
so consequential

1713
00:43:42,916 --> 00:43:43,750
would be something

1714
00:43:43,750 --> 00:43:45,125
that everyone knew about,

1715
00:43:45,125 --> 00:43:46,666
but no one does. Right.

1716
00:43:46,666 --> 00:43:47,833
And it's

1717
00:43:47,833 --> 00:43:49,041
I guess it's just surprising.

1718
00:43:49,041 --> 00:43:49,666
It's surprising.

1719
00:43:49,666 --> 00:43:50,833
And it's informative.

1720
00:43:50,833 --> 00:43:51,791
And it's another way,

1721
00:43:51,791 --> 00:43:56,375
I think, to make even the concept of

1722
00:43:56,750 --> 00:43:57,375
going

1723
00:43:57,375 --> 00:44:00,291
to a different system feasible,

1724
00:44:00,291 --> 00:44:01,291
because if we've done it

1725
00:44:01,291 --> 00:44:03,708
before, we could do it again. Right?

1726
00:44:03,708 --> 00:44:05,291
Like it's not something

1727
00:44:05,291 --> 00:44:06,625
that is immutable

1728
00:44:06,625 --> 00:44:07,958
and and consistent

1729
00:44:07,958 --> 00:44:09,083
as the night sky

1730
00:44:09,083 --> 00:44:10,583
that is eternal and never changing.

1731
00:44:10,583 --> 00:44:11,208
Which is true

1732
00:44:11,208 --> 00:44:12,708
as any astrologists will tell you,

1733
00:44:12,708 --> 00:44:13,541
right?

1734
00:44:13,541 --> 00:44:14,875
Astronomer

1735
00:44:14,875 --> 00:44:17,000
should Tyson into an astronomer?

1736
00:44:18,250 --> 00:44:18,458
Yeah.

1737
00:44:18,458 --> 00:44:20,875
Anyway, you get you get my point.

1738
00:44:20,875 --> 00:44:22,458
Yeah, yeah.

1739
00:44:22,458 --> 00:44:25,125
And and I also wanted to tell you

1740
00:44:25,125 --> 00:44:26,916
about a story. My dad.

1741
00:44:26,916 --> 00:44:28,250
So my dad's,

1742
00:44:28,250 --> 00:44:28,541
you know,

1743
00:44:28,541 --> 00:44:30,166
he knows that I like bitcoin.

1744
00:44:30,166 --> 00:44:31,750
He knows that I'm invested in it.

1745
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:34,125
And he he sort of understands it,

1746
00:44:34,125 --> 00:44:36,166
but he hasn't done as much reading

1747
00:44:36,166 --> 00:44:37,500
and learning as I have.

1748
00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:40,458
So he's he's he's very apprehensive.

1749
00:44:40,458 --> 00:44:41,625
He's one of those people

1750
00:44:41,625 --> 00:44:44,083
who they grew up

1751
00:44:44,083 --> 00:44:46,250
during communism in Yugoslavia

1752
00:44:46,250 --> 00:44:47,958
and they the,

1753
00:44:47,958 --> 00:44:49,375
you know, their world views.

1754
00:44:49,375 --> 00:44:50,625
You go to the university,

1755
00:44:50,625 --> 00:44:51,458
you get a good job,

1756
00:44:51,458 --> 00:44:53,166
you save money and you retire.

1757
00:44:53,166 --> 00:44:53,750
You pass it

1758
00:44:53,750 --> 00:44:54,875
on to the next generation

1759
00:44:54,875 --> 00:44:56,083
and so forth.

1760
00:44:56,083 --> 00:44:59,250
So he's got a very, very cautious

1761
00:44:59,250 --> 00:45:00,666
view of investing.

1762
00:45:00,666 --> 00:45:01,875
He's got a very cautious

1763
00:45:01,875 --> 00:45:03,458
view of Bitcoin,

1764
00:45:03,458 --> 00:45:05,625
especially because there's like way

1765
00:45:05,625 --> 00:45:08,416
where is it doesn't exist.

1766
00:45:08,416 --> 00:45:09,583
Yeah. Real.

1767
00:45:09,583 --> 00:45:11,000
So he's yeah.

1768
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,041
The one of the questions

1769
00:45:12,041 --> 00:45:14,708
he repeatedly asks me is you know

1770
00:45:14,708 --> 00:45:15,791
are you going to invite

1771
00:45:15,791 --> 00:45:17,583
people on your podcast

1772
00:45:17,583 --> 00:45:19,041
who are going to,

1773
00:45:19,041 --> 00:45:19,791
you know,

1774
00:45:19,791 --> 00:45:20,875
criticize Bitcoin

1775
00:45:20,875 --> 00:45:22,000
or offer an alternative

1776
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:22,916
point of view,

1777
00:45:22,916 --> 00:45:25,333
or are there any debates out there

1778
00:45:25,333 --> 00:45:26,541
where you get two sides

1779
00:45:26,541 --> 00:45:27,166
of this story?

1780
00:45:27,166 --> 00:45:28,250
And I'm like that.

1781
00:45:28,250 --> 00:45:29,250
It's not that simple

1782
00:45:29,250 --> 00:45:30,791
because so far, I'm

1783
00:45:30,791 --> 00:45:32,458
still waiting for the day

1784
00:45:32,458 --> 00:45:33,291
that someone brings

1785
00:45:33,291 --> 00:45:35,833
up, a good argument against Bitcoin

1786
00:45:35,833 --> 00:45:37,125
that hasn't been debunked.

1787
00:45:37,125 --> 00:45:39,833
And that's not me being blind.

1788
00:45:39,833 --> 00:45:41,291
That's not me being dogmatic.

1789
00:45:41,291 --> 00:45:44,291
That's just me being honest.

1790
00:45:44,666 --> 00:45:45,916
As intellectually honest

1791
00:45:45,916 --> 00:45:47,583
as I can be, it,

1792
00:45:47,583 --> 00:45:49,291
like I'm waiting for this person.

1793
00:45:49,291 --> 00:45:50,416
If you are out there,

1794
00:45:50,416 --> 00:45:51,458
please let me know.

1795
00:45:52,458 --> 00:45:54,500
But yes, I'm on the same page.

1796
00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:54,916
Yeah.

1797
00:45:54,916 --> 00:45:55,958
No, I mean, that is

1798
00:45:55,958 --> 00:45:56,875
that is exactly,

1799
00:45:56,875 --> 00:45:59,083
exactly where I've come from is one.

1800
00:45:59,083 --> 00:46:00,875
I always say it to all my friends.

1801
00:46:00,875 --> 00:46:01,875
It's like I didn't sign.

1802
00:46:01,875 --> 00:46:02,791
I didn't intentionally

1803
00:46:02,791 --> 00:46:03,708
go in this direction.

1804
00:46:03,708 --> 00:46:06,208
I just it's just the inevitable

1805
00:46:06,208 --> 00:46:07,958
logical end point

1806
00:46:07,958 --> 00:46:09,791
of of any reasonable thinking.

1807
00:46:09,791 --> 00:46:12,791
Now it's entirely possible, in fact,

1808
00:46:12,916 --> 00:46:13,333
you know,

1809
00:46:13,333 --> 00:46:14,666
maybe even probable

1810
00:46:14,666 --> 00:46:15,958
that there's in fact,

1811
00:46:15,958 --> 00:46:17,208
it's guaranteed

1812
00:46:17,208 --> 00:46:18,708
that there's a whole bunch of things

1813
00:46:18,708 --> 00:46:19,875
that I haven't contemplated

1814
00:46:19,875 --> 00:46:20,541
or thought about

1815
00:46:20,541 --> 00:46:21,500
or thought about properly

1816
00:46:21,500 --> 00:46:22,041
or thought about.

1817
00:46:22,041 --> 00:46:22,500
Well,

1818
00:46:22,500 --> 00:46:23,916
so I'm not I'm

1819
00:46:23,916 --> 00:46:25,791
not arrogant enough to think that,

1820
00:46:25,791 --> 00:46:27,166
no, I have

1821
00:46:27,166 --> 00:46:28,500
I have thought about this

1822
00:46:28,500 --> 00:46:29,750
thoroughly and fully,

1823
00:46:29,750 --> 00:46:30,791
and I have conceived

1824
00:46:30,791 --> 00:46:31,708
of every possible

1825
00:46:31,708 --> 00:46:33,041
scenario and outcome

1826
00:46:33,041 --> 00:46:35,750
and that this is, an inevitability.

1827
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:37,541
Right? Like, no.

1828
00:46:37,541 --> 00:46:38,500
Absolutely.

1829
00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:40,041
There's something that I could miss.

1830
00:46:40,041 --> 00:46:40,875
And as I said to you

1831
00:46:40,875 --> 00:46:41,916
at the start, I'd like.

1832
00:46:41,916 --> 00:46:42,708
Maybe it's not true,

1833
00:46:42,708 --> 00:46:44,416
but I'd like to think that

1834
00:46:44,416 --> 00:46:46,291
if someone presented to me

1835
00:46:46,291 --> 00:46:48,291
a convincing, cogent argument

1836
00:46:48,291 --> 00:46:49,125
that, you know,

1837
00:46:49,125 --> 00:46:50,541
this, this could go,

1838
00:46:50,541 --> 00:46:52,041
this could go wrong,

1839
00:46:52,041 --> 00:46:53,708
that I would be open to that.

1840
00:46:53,708 --> 00:46:55,000
And not just

1841
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:55,250
all of

1842
00:46:55,250 --> 00:46:56,708
the intellectual rigor,

1843
00:46:56,708 --> 00:46:59,125
but my own personal well-being,

1844
00:46:59,125 --> 00:47:00,583
because I'm,

1845
00:47:00,583 --> 00:47:02,208
I'm I'm pretty deep in the whole

1846
00:47:02,208 --> 00:47:03,750
this at this point. Right.

1847
00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:04,791
And so it's like,

1848
00:47:04,791 --> 00:47:07,708
if I'm, I say it all the time

1849
00:47:07,708 --> 00:47:09,083
with straw man in the, in the

1850
00:47:09,083 --> 00:47:10,625
investing stuff, if I'm wrong

1851
00:47:11,625 --> 00:47:12,500
with this particular

1852
00:47:12,500 --> 00:47:14,833
share or whatever it happens to be,

1853
00:47:14,833 --> 00:47:15,708
I'm wrong.

1854
00:47:15,708 --> 00:47:18,083
And there's two ways I can find out.

1855
00:47:18,083 --> 00:47:19,541
One way is

1856
00:47:19,541 --> 00:47:20,041
the market

1857
00:47:20,041 --> 00:47:21,583
will tell me I'm wrong

1858
00:47:21,583 --> 00:47:23,041
and will tell me I'm wrong by me

1859
00:47:23,041 --> 00:47:23,958
losing a bunch of money.

1860
00:47:23,958 --> 00:47:25,208
Oh that sucks.

1861
00:47:25,208 --> 00:47:26,708
Or I could have

1862
00:47:26,708 --> 00:47:29,333
someone tell me I'm wrong in advance

1863
00:47:29,333 --> 00:47:30,416
and I could sell out

1864
00:47:30,416 --> 00:47:32,208
and avoid the loss.

1865
00:47:32,208 --> 00:47:33,250
There's no scenario

1866
00:47:33,250 --> 00:47:34,208
where it's like, you're wrong.

1867
00:47:34,208 --> 00:47:34,875
But don't worry

1868
00:47:34,875 --> 00:47:35,750
bro, it all works out

1869
00:47:35,750 --> 00:47:36,791
really well in the end.

1870
00:47:36,791 --> 00:47:37,625
Like this scenario,

1871
00:47:37,625 --> 00:47:39,250
there's no there's no third

1872
00:47:39,250 --> 00:47:40,541
path on that.

1873
00:47:40,541 --> 00:47:42,166
So yeah,

1874
00:47:42,166 --> 00:47:44,791
I'll I'll second your, your,

1875
00:47:44,791 --> 00:47:46,041
your challenge to people

1876
00:47:46,041 --> 00:47:47,500
if you've got a good argument out

1877
00:47:47,500 --> 00:47:48,583
there, let's hear it

1878
00:47:48,583 --> 00:47:49,833
because I'm ready for it.

1879
00:47:49,833 --> 00:47:51,958
And it will if,

1880
00:47:51,958 --> 00:47:53,583
if you can convince me and I

1881
00:47:53,583 --> 00:47:55,208
if I can be open minded and honest

1882
00:47:55,208 --> 00:47:57,333
and I think that I, that I can be.

1883
00:47:57,333 --> 00:47:59,208
Yeah. I'll change my mind.

1884
00:47:59,208 --> 00:48:00,625
Strong opinions loosely held.

1885
00:48:00,625 --> 00:48:01,041
And then I've got

1886
00:48:01,041 --> 00:48:03,000
a very strong opinion on bitcoin.

1887
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:04,833
But if the facts,

1888
00:48:04,833 --> 00:48:06,625
you know, JP Morgan, the

1889
00:48:07,666 --> 00:48:09,416
the man not the,

1890
00:48:09,416 --> 00:48:12,416
not the institution was and this

1891
00:48:13,333 --> 00:48:14,458
I don't know if this

1892
00:48:14,458 --> 00:48:15,666
ever actually happened,

1893
00:48:15,666 --> 00:48:17,208
but it's such a good,

1894
00:48:17,208 --> 00:48:20,208
story that I like to use it a lot.

1895
00:48:20,958 --> 00:48:22,625
Was asked by a reporter

1896
00:48:22,625 --> 00:48:23,583
what he thought the market

1897
00:48:23,583 --> 00:48:24,166
was going to do.

1898
00:48:24,166 --> 00:48:25,583
His 20s

1899
00:48:25,583 --> 00:48:28,583
or some somewhere 1920s back then.

1900
00:48:28,625 --> 00:48:29,041
And he said,

1901
00:48:29,041 --> 00:48:29,375
I think

1902
00:48:29,375 --> 00:48:30,541
it's going to get to whatever.

1903
00:48:30,541 --> 00:48:30,916
And he goes, I'll.

1904
00:48:30,916 --> 00:48:32,125
But you said

1905
00:48:32,125 --> 00:48:33,958
you said this last time we spoke to

1906
00:48:33,958 --> 00:48:35,375
you said this.

1907
00:48:35,375 --> 00:48:36,791
And he said, well,

1908
00:48:36,791 --> 00:48:37,958
when the facts change,

1909
00:48:37,958 --> 00:48:39,000
I change my mind.

1910
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:40,541
What do you do, sir?

1911
00:48:40,541 --> 00:48:42,541
And it was just like the ultimate

1912
00:48:42,541 --> 00:48:43,958
like put down

1913
00:48:43,958 --> 00:48:46,958
because what's your retort to that?

1914
00:48:47,166 --> 00:48:48,583
I mean,

1915
00:48:48,583 --> 00:48:49,041
there's not

1916
00:48:49,041 --> 00:48:52,041
there's nothing wrong with having a,

1917
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:54,791
an opinion that is ultimately wrong.

1918
00:48:54,791 --> 00:48:56,041
The world is far too complex

1919
00:48:56,041 --> 00:48:57,625
for your original hot

1920
00:48:57,625 --> 00:48:59,291
take to be immediately

1921
00:48:59,291 --> 00:49:00,083
and forever, right?

1922
00:49:00,083 --> 00:49:00,541
Like if

1923
00:49:00,541 --> 00:49:01,333
there is not the world

1924
00:49:01,333 --> 00:49:02,000
that we live in

1925
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:03,791
and you are not that smart.

1926
00:49:03,791 --> 00:49:04,666
Not you personally,

1927
00:49:04,666 --> 00:49:05,958
none of us, right? We just.

1928
00:49:05,958 --> 00:49:07,333
We just can't be that way.

1929
00:49:07,333 --> 00:49:10,333
So if the facts change.

1930
00:49:10,541 --> 00:49:12,041
Yeah, I change my mind

1931
00:49:12,041 --> 00:49:13,333
like you're going to.

1932
00:49:13,333 --> 00:49:15,583
And it's one of these bizarre things

1933
00:49:15,583 --> 00:49:16,541
in the modern era

1934
00:49:16,541 --> 00:49:17,833
where if we catch a politician

1935
00:49:17,833 --> 00:49:19,708
changing their mind, it's a gotcha

1936
00:49:19,708 --> 00:49:21,125
or you or even just our

1937
00:49:21,125 --> 00:49:23,083
you said this and now you said that.

1938
00:49:23,083 --> 00:49:24,208
I gotcha.

1939
00:49:24,208 --> 00:49:24,875
And it's like,

1940
00:49:24,875 --> 00:49:25,875
I actually applaud

1941
00:49:25,875 --> 00:49:27,375
anyone who can just

1942
00:49:27,375 --> 00:49:29,166
dispassionately say, you know what?

1943
00:49:29,166 --> 00:49:29,958
I used to really have

1944
00:49:29,958 --> 00:49:30,916
a strong opinion on this,

1945
00:49:30,916 --> 00:49:32,083
but now I don't

1946
00:49:32,083 --> 00:49:34,083
because the facts changed

1947
00:49:34,083 --> 00:49:35,833
or my reasoning changed.

1948
00:49:35,833 --> 00:49:37,958
But I was able to come at it fresh

1949
00:49:37,958 --> 00:49:39,291
and I've now changed my mind.

1950
00:49:39,291 --> 00:49:39,625
It's like,

1951
00:49:39,625 --> 00:49:42,208
how can you be anything other than

1952
00:49:42,208 --> 00:49:42,958
how can you do anything

1953
00:49:42,958 --> 00:49:44,583
other than applaud that?

1954
00:49:44,583 --> 00:49:45,833
Because the only other approach

1955
00:49:45,833 --> 00:49:46,958
is to say,

1956
00:49:46,958 --> 00:49:49,083
yeah, I made an opinion at one point

1957
00:49:49,083 --> 00:49:51,375
and no matter what evidence

1958
00:49:51,375 --> 00:49:52,333
or reasoning

1959
00:49:52,333 --> 00:49:53,750
or anything that you can throw it,

1960
00:49:53,750 --> 00:49:55,500
I'm never going to change my mind.

1961
00:49:55,500 --> 00:49:56,416
That's just another way

1962
00:49:56,416 --> 00:49:57,416
of saying you're an idiot,

1963
00:49:58,500 --> 00:49:59,083
right?

1964
00:49:59,083 --> 00:50:00,833
Like, what other conclusion

1965
00:50:00,833 --> 00:50:01,500
can you draw

1966
00:50:01,500 --> 00:50:03,000
from someone who takes that

1967
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:03,875
that stance?

1968
00:50:03,875 --> 00:50:05,000
And unfortunately,

1969
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:06,125
there's a lot of people out there

1970
00:50:06,125 --> 00:50:06,583
like that.

1971
00:50:06,583 --> 00:50:08,291
So yeah, you know.

1972
00:50:08,291 --> 00:50:09,125
It's absolutely true.

1973
00:50:09,125 --> 00:50:09,791
I like listening

1974
00:50:09,791 --> 00:50:11,083
to science podcasts.

1975
00:50:11,083 --> 00:50:12,708
And what makes me trust

1976
00:50:12,708 --> 00:50:14,250
a scientist is his ability

1977
00:50:14,250 --> 00:50:15,291
to change his mind

1978
00:50:15,291 --> 00:50:17,750
in light of new information.

1979
00:50:17,750 --> 00:50:18,916
That's what makes me think, okay,

1980
00:50:18,916 --> 00:50:21,083
I can listen to this person forever.

1981
00:50:21,083 --> 00:50:21,375
Yep.

1982
00:50:21,375 --> 00:50:22,458
Because I know that they're

1983
00:50:22,458 --> 00:50:23,541
intellectually honest

1984
00:50:23,541 --> 00:50:24,291
and humble enough

1985
00:50:24,291 --> 00:50:26,583
to change their mind.

1986
00:50:26,583 --> 00:50:28,458
But going back to the point,

1987
00:50:28,458 --> 00:50:28,875
I don't know

1988
00:50:28,875 --> 00:50:30,375
if you've seen there's a guy

1989
00:50:30,375 --> 00:50:31,916
I think he's based in Canada,

1990
00:50:31,916 --> 00:50:33,250
and Neil said so

1991
00:50:33,250 --> 00:50:34,541
is his handle an ex,

1992
00:50:34,541 --> 00:50:35,625
and he's got this

1993
00:50:35,625 --> 00:50:36,750
great visualization,

1994
00:50:36,750 --> 00:50:38,375
which is like kind of,

1995
00:50:38,375 --> 00:50:40,000
like a tree diagram

1996
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:40,375
where,

1997
00:50:40,375 --> 00:50:41,333
yeah, he's got like

1998
00:50:41,333 --> 00:50:43,208
all the rebuttals to Bitcoin

1999
00:50:43,208 --> 00:50:45,500
and he organizes them nicely.

2000
00:50:46,541 --> 00:50:48,083
And I went through each one

2001
00:50:48,083 --> 00:50:49,666
of those boxes and I was like,

2002
00:50:49,666 --> 00:50:51,791
I need to make sure I understand

2003
00:50:51,791 --> 00:50:53,875
and can speak to every single one.

2004
00:50:53,875 --> 00:50:56,500
Yep. And and I can. Yep.

2005
00:50:56,500 --> 00:50:57,916
So until there's

2006
00:50:57,916 --> 00:50:59,541
something new out there,

2007
00:50:59,541 --> 00:51:00,916
I am going to.

2008
00:51:00,916 --> 00:51:03,291
Yeah, I, I'm waiting to hear this.

2009
00:51:03,291 --> 00:51:04,125
I have shared

2010
00:51:04,125 --> 00:51:05,625
some podcasts with my dad

2011
00:51:05,625 --> 00:51:06,416
because I couldn't

2012
00:51:06,416 --> 00:51:08,333
find great rebuttals to Bitcoin,

2013
00:51:08,333 --> 00:51:11,208
but I can find good debates.

2014
00:51:11,208 --> 00:51:12,375
I found one last night with.

2015
00:51:12,375 --> 00:51:13,666
So for Dynamo's debate,

2016
00:51:13,666 --> 00:51:16,333
someone on with

2017
00:51:16,333 --> 00:51:18,166
Bitcoin can be

2018
00:51:18,166 --> 00:51:20,000
global reserve currency

2019
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,291
replace like the dollar.

2020
00:51:21,291 --> 00:51:22,458
And, to me,

2021
00:51:22,458 --> 00:51:22,791
that's like

2022
00:51:22,791 --> 00:51:24,458
a more nuanced discussion to have

2023
00:51:24,458 --> 00:51:27,500
when you're kind of hypothesizing

2024
00:51:27,791 --> 00:51:28,958
how the

2025
00:51:28,958 --> 00:51:31,041
how the adoption might evolve from,

2026
00:51:31,041 --> 00:51:32,000
from here on out

2027
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:33,541
and what that might look like.

2028
00:51:33,541 --> 00:51:35,083
But in terms of everything

2029
00:51:35,083 --> 00:51:36,750
that I know about Bitcoin now

2030
00:51:37,833 --> 00:51:38,583
that you yeah,

2031
00:51:38,583 --> 00:51:39,166
I can't I

2032
00:51:39,166 --> 00:51:40,541
can't hear

2033
00:51:40,541 --> 00:51:41,583
like I haven't heard a

2034
00:51:41,583 --> 00:51:43,791
I'm a hater in the space I'm sorry.

2035
00:51:43,791 --> 00:51:46,541
No it's it's it's yeah.

2036
00:51:46,541 --> 00:51:47,541
Like I

2037
00:51:47,541 --> 00:51:51,166
my favorite bear case for bitcoin

2038
00:51:51,708 --> 00:51:53,333
is that

2039
00:51:53,333 --> 00:51:56,208
governments around the world adopt

2040
00:51:56,208 --> 00:51:57,458
an extraordinarily

2041
00:51:57,458 --> 00:51:59,083
disciplined and judicious

2042
00:51:59,083 --> 00:52:01,333
fiscal stance.

2043
00:52:01,333 --> 00:52:02,666
Because if that happens,

2044
00:52:02,666 --> 00:52:04,041
it's kind of like Bitcoin

2045
00:52:04,041 --> 00:52:05,083
is something that solves

2046
00:52:05,083 --> 00:52:07,625
this great problem.

2047
00:52:07,625 --> 00:52:08,625
But if that's not a problem

2048
00:52:08,625 --> 00:52:10,083
then you don't need a solution.

2049
00:52:10,083 --> 00:52:11,833
So I don't think for a second

2050
00:52:11,833 --> 00:52:12,750
that that's going to happen

2051
00:52:12,750 --> 00:52:13,583
because the incentives

2052
00:52:13,583 --> 00:52:14,791
are the way that they are.

2053
00:52:14,791 --> 00:52:15,541
Human beings

2054
00:52:15,541 --> 00:52:16,333
are the way that they are.

2055
00:52:16,333 --> 00:52:16,916
Politicians

2056
00:52:16,916 --> 00:52:18,208
are the way that they are.

2057
00:52:18,208 --> 00:52:20,250
So it's not going to happen,

2058
00:52:20,250 --> 00:52:21,041
but it is a good

2059
00:52:21,041 --> 00:52:22,541
it is a good thought experiment.

2060
00:52:22,541 --> 00:52:23,208
You know, it's

2061
00:52:23,208 --> 00:52:23,500
sort of

2062
00:52:23,500 --> 00:52:24,875
like we actually

2063
00:52:24,875 --> 00:52:27,166
don't need this other form of,

2064
00:52:27,166 --> 00:52:28,083
you know,

2065
00:52:28,083 --> 00:52:29,208
thermodynamically,

2066
00:52:29,208 --> 00:52:30,916
mathematically enforced hard money

2067
00:52:30,916 --> 00:52:32,875
if we just have, an a,

2068
00:52:32,875 --> 00:52:35,833
you know, a sensible, hard money

2069
00:52:35,833 --> 00:52:37,041
just by virtue of, like,

2070
00:52:37,041 --> 00:52:38,916
prudent management of our fiscal

2071
00:52:38,916 --> 00:52:40,166
and monetary affairs.

2072
00:52:40,166 --> 00:52:41,208
But it's not it's

2073
00:52:41,208 --> 00:52:42,416
not going to happen.

2074
00:52:42,416 --> 00:52:43,208
And you can

2075
00:52:43,208 --> 00:52:43,541
I think there's

2076
00:52:43,541 --> 00:52:46,958
plenty of open debates in Bitcoin

2077
00:52:47,416 --> 00:52:49,166
on the fringe of returns.

2078
00:52:49,166 --> 00:52:52,333
A good example of that, you know,

2079
00:52:52,875 --> 00:52:53,583
oh, there's all kinds

2080
00:52:53,583 --> 00:52:54,500
of little things.

2081
00:52:54,500 --> 00:52:57,500
But yeah, in terms of the

2082
00:52:57,666 --> 00:52:58,250
I actually don't know

2083
00:52:58,250 --> 00:52:59,291
what there is to debate

2084
00:52:59,291 --> 00:53:02,083
at this stage because it's sort of

2085
00:53:03,166 --> 00:53:03,625
it's got

2086
00:53:03,625 --> 00:53:04,458
this,

2087
00:53:04,458 --> 00:53:07,416
Lindy effect, which is like, well,

2088
00:53:07,416 --> 00:53:09,708
despite all of the criticism

2089
00:53:09,708 --> 00:53:10,750
and all of the reasons

2090
00:53:10,750 --> 00:53:13,125
as to why it shouldn't work,

2091
00:53:13,125 --> 00:53:15,625
every ten minutes it finds a blog,

2092
00:53:15,625 --> 00:53:17,541
it runs flawless. Slay.

2093
00:53:17,541 --> 00:53:18,708
It's got the world's biggest

2094
00:53:18,708 --> 00:53:20,250
bug bounty program on it,

2095
00:53:20,250 --> 00:53:21,291
because anyone who hacks

2096
00:53:21,291 --> 00:53:21,916
is going to be

2097
00:53:21,916 --> 00:53:24,916
an instant gazillionaire, you know,

2098
00:53:25,041 --> 00:53:26,000
and it's done

2099
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,333
all of that adoption has grown.

2100
00:53:28,333 --> 00:53:29,458
Hash rate is growing.

2101
00:53:29,458 --> 00:53:30,416
Any kind of metric,

2102
00:53:30,416 --> 00:53:31,458
quantitative metric

2103
00:53:31,458 --> 00:53:33,375
you want to throw at it that shows.

2104
00:53:33,375 --> 00:53:34,625
Is this becoming

2105
00:53:34,625 --> 00:53:36,166
used by more and more people?

2106
00:53:36,166 --> 00:53:38,208
It's only going in one direction.

2107
00:53:38,208 --> 00:53:40,833
You know, it's sort of like

2108
00:53:40,833 --> 00:53:42,166
it's happening now.

2109
00:53:42,166 --> 00:53:43,375
It doesn't mean that it

2110
00:53:43,375 --> 00:53:44,291
it must therefore

2111
00:53:44,291 --> 00:53:45,375
continue to happen.

2112
00:53:45,375 --> 00:53:46,541
You know, it

2113
00:53:46,541 --> 00:53:48,291
it might hit an a hit,

2114
00:53:48,291 --> 00:53:49,166
an abrupt end.

2115
00:53:49,166 --> 00:53:52,000
But at this point it's sort of like

2116
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,208
if you want to go beyond

2117
00:53:54,208 --> 00:53:55,541
just trying to argue it

2118
00:53:55,541 --> 00:53:57,708
from an intellectual standpoint,

2119
00:53:57,708 --> 00:53:58,125
which is

2120
00:53:58,125 --> 00:53:59,083
you can cover

2121
00:53:59,083 --> 00:54:00,041
a lot of Einstein

2122
00:54:00,041 --> 00:54:00,916
field of relativity

2123
00:54:00,916 --> 00:54:02,041
just by imagining

2124
00:54:02,041 --> 00:54:02,958
being on a light beam.

2125
00:54:02,958 --> 00:54:03,375
So you can

2126
00:54:03,375 --> 00:54:04,125
you can do a lot

2127
00:54:04,125 --> 00:54:05,375
just with the old gray matter

2128
00:54:05,375 --> 00:54:06,166
before you before

2129
00:54:06,166 --> 00:54:07,833
stepping out into the lab.

2130
00:54:07,833 --> 00:54:10,708
But but we have this real world

2131
00:54:10,708 --> 00:54:11,375
experiment

2132
00:54:11,375 --> 00:54:12,000
that's been running

2133
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,000
for 16 years now.

2134
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,333
And for people to deny that,

2135
00:54:16,333 --> 00:54:17,541
it's like you,

2136
00:54:17,541 --> 00:54:18,708
you're looking at the sky

2137
00:54:18,708 --> 00:54:19,541
and you're saying

2138
00:54:19,541 --> 00:54:20,291
it's green

2139
00:54:20,291 --> 00:54:20,708
and it's like, well,

2140
00:54:20,708 --> 00:54:22,166
no, it's it's clearly blue

2141
00:54:22,166 --> 00:54:23,791
because there it is.

2142
00:54:23,791 --> 00:54:25,166
Yeah, but but I don't

2143
00:54:25,166 --> 00:54:26,166
I don't acknowledge it.

2144
00:54:26,166 --> 00:54:26,375
It's like,

2145
00:54:26,375 --> 00:54:27,541
well you might not

2146
00:54:27,541 --> 00:54:29,916
acknowledge calculus, but it exists.

2147
00:54:29,916 --> 00:54:32,041
You might not, you know,

2148
00:54:32,041 --> 00:54:32,875
feel as though

2149
00:54:32,875 --> 00:54:34,708
the French language is real,

2150
00:54:34,708 --> 00:54:36,208
but it exists,

2151
00:54:36,208 --> 00:54:36,583
you know,

2152
00:54:36,583 --> 00:54:38,208
and you might not like Bitcoin,

2153
00:54:38,208 --> 00:54:39,500
but it exists.

2154
00:54:39,500 --> 00:54:41,958
And whether you like it or not,

2155
00:54:41,958 --> 00:54:43,208
more and more people

2156
00:54:43,208 --> 00:54:44,958
are coming on board with it

2157
00:54:44,958 --> 00:54:46,250
every day.

2158
00:54:46,250 --> 00:54:47,791
And and that's

2159
00:54:47,791 --> 00:54:49,208
what's really weird about

2160
00:54:49,208 --> 00:54:49,791
this is the

2161
00:54:49,791 --> 00:54:50,333
this is the thing

2162
00:54:50,333 --> 00:54:52,000
that really broke my brain with it.

2163
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,125
Was that because, again,

2164
00:54:53,125 --> 00:54:54,916
I come from a world of

2165
00:54:54,916 --> 00:54:57,291
valuing things through cash flows

2166
00:54:57,291 --> 00:54:58,458
and intrinsic value,

2167
00:54:58,458 --> 00:54:59,916
and there is absolutely

2168
00:54:59,916 --> 00:55:01,083
an inverse relationship

2169
00:55:01,083 --> 00:55:02,750
between price and value.

2170
00:55:02,750 --> 00:55:04,125
Apple is a great company,

2171
00:55:04,125 --> 00:55:05,833
is it worth 100 times

2172
00:55:05,833 --> 00:55:06,791
its current share price?

2173
00:55:06,791 --> 00:55:07,875
Probably not. Right?

2174
00:55:07,875 --> 00:55:08,791
You get to a point where

2175
00:55:08,791 --> 00:55:09,791
no matter how beautiful

2176
00:55:09,791 --> 00:55:10,666
the business,

2177
00:55:10,666 --> 00:55:12,625
you can overpay for it.

2178
00:55:12,625 --> 00:55:14,458
Bitcoin flips

2179
00:55:14,458 --> 00:55:15,541
all of that on its head

2180
00:55:15,541 --> 00:55:17,625
and it actually says no.

2181
00:55:17,625 --> 00:55:19,250
The higher the price goes up,

2182
00:55:19,250 --> 00:55:20,625
the more valuable it is.

2183
00:55:22,458 --> 00:55:25,458
And that is just sort of like

2184
00:55:25,833 --> 00:55:27,041
that's a really hard thing

2185
00:55:27,041 --> 00:55:28,625
to wrap your head around

2186
00:55:28,625 --> 00:55:29,958
at a at a higher price.

2187
00:55:29,958 --> 00:55:32,291
It can carry more economic weight.

2188
00:55:32,291 --> 00:55:34,250
It's more useful to more people.

2189
00:55:34,250 --> 00:55:35,291
It's more useful to the big

2190
00:55:35,291 --> 00:55:37,541
and serious pools of capital

2191
00:55:37,541 --> 00:55:38,458
that are out there.

2192
00:55:38,458 --> 00:55:40,625
It just has more utility, you know?

2193
00:55:40,625 --> 00:55:42,166
And with that will come ultimately

2194
00:55:42,166 --> 00:55:43,250
lower volatility.

2195
00:55:43,250 --> 00:55:45,041
It'll be accepted in more places.

2196
00:55:45,041 --> 00:55:47,041
And this it's very unusual

2197
00:55:47,041 --> 00:55:48,500
to have something like that

2198
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:50,291
in the financial realm,

2199
00:55:50,291 --> 00:55:51,833
which the price goes up

2200
00:55:51,833 --> 00:55:53,000
and up and up.

2201
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,291
But rather than the value

2202
00:55:54,291 --> 00:55:55,833
being inversely correlated, it's

2203
00:55:55,833 --> 00:55:57,458
positively correlated with it.

2204
00:55:57,458 --> 00:56:00,291
Like it's just it's it's so amazing.

2205
00:56:00,291 --> 00:56:01,333
And so for me,

2206
00:56:01,333 --> 00:56:02,208
watching the price

2207
00:56:02,208 --> 00:56:03,500
go up is nice

2208
00:56:03,500 --> 00:56:06,333
in terms of watching your, you know,

2209
00:56:06,333 --> 00:56:07,541
making your bags happier.

2210
00:56:07,541 --> 00:56:08,083
That's great

2211
00:56:08,083 --> 00:56:09,541
I love that, but it's

2212
00:56:09,541 --> 00:56:10,916
but it's also

2213
00:56:10,916 --> 00:56:12,791
evidence that this thing is

2214
00:56:12,791 --> 00:56:14,666
doing what you want it to do.

2215
00:56:16,333 --> 00:56:17,583
Not for you personally, but

2216
00:56:17,583 --> 00:56:19,875
what it needs to do to fulfill it,

2217
00:56:19,875 --> 00:56:21,541
to fulfill its promise.

2218
00:56:21,541 --> 00:56:22,791
And yeah,

2219
00:56:22,791 --> 00:56:24,208
it is going to go up forever.

2220
00:56:24,208 --> 00:56:25,500
It is going to go up forever.

2221
00:56:25,500 --> 00:56:26,541
You know, it's going up forever.

2222
00:56:26,541 --> 00:56:28,166
Laura, that is something

2223
00:56:28,166 --> 00:56:30,541
I definitely get.

2224
00:56:30,541 --> 00:56:32,000
Snickers at.

2225
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:32,750
And and I think

2226
00:56:32,750 --> 00:56:33,583
I'll give you two things

2227
00:56:33,583 --> 00:56:34,708
that that people in my world

2228
00:56:34,708 --> 00:56:36,916
snicker at, which is kind of ironic.

2229
00:56:36,916 --> 00:56:37,541
The first is

2230
00:56:37,541 --> 00:56:39,666
you say it's going up forever

2231
00:56:39,666 --> 00:56:40,458
because I often get,

2232
00:56:40,458 --> 00:56:41,083
okay, it's done.

2233
00:56:41,083 --> 00:56:41,291
Well,

2234
00:56:41,291 --> 00:56:42,458
when are you going to take profits?

2235
00:56:42,458 --> 00:56:42,916
And like,

2236
00:56:42,916 --> 00:56:45,166
profits now, never taking profits.

2237
00:56:45,166 --> 00:56:46,458
Why would I change

2238
00:56:46,458 --> 00:56:47,583
a really good hard

2239
00:56:47,583 --> 00:56:49,041
currency into a weak, crappy?

2240
00:56:49,041 --> 00:56:50,541
I'm not doing that ever.

2241
00:56:50,541 --> 00:56:51,958
And that's why

2242
00:56:51,958 --> 00:56:53,000
it doesn't make sense.

2243
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:54,833
How can anything go up forever?

2244
00:56:54,833 --> 00:56:55,916
And yet they're the same people

2245
00:56:55,916 --> 00:56:56,708
who turn around and go,

2246
00:56:56,708 --> 00:56:59,375
oh, you should buy a low index ETF.

2247
00:56:59,375 --> 00:57:00,500
Like when just now,

2248
00:57:00,500 --> 00:57:02,166
because it's going to go up forever.

2249
00:57:02,166 --> 00:57:02,916
And then, right,

2250
00:57:02,916 --> 00:57:04,166
it is going to go up forever,

2251
00:57:04,166 --> 00:57:05,291
like for a whole host of reasons

2252
00:57:05,291 --> 00:57:06,166
that we can't get into.

2253
00:57:06,166 --> 00:57:08,000
But the market has always on

2254
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,500
average, over time gone up.

2255
00:57:11,083 --> 00:57:12,416
And I can absolutely say that.

2256
00:57:12,416 --> 00:57:13,875
Yep. That makes perfect sense. Yep.

2257
00:57:13,875 --> 00:57:14,666
Let them up

2258
00:57:14,666 --> 00:57:15,250
because they're

2259
00:57:15,250 --> 00:57:16,041
not going to do that.

2260
00:57:16,041 --> 00:57:17,750
There's like so that's weird.

2261
00:57:17,750 --> 00:57:18,916
And then they'll go, yeah,

2262
00:57:18,916 --> 00:57:20,208
but it's really volatile.

2263
00:57:20,208 --> 00:57:21,916
It's like the Nasdaq

2264
00:57:21,916 --> 00:57:24,166
is not volatile like that.

2265
00:57:24,166 --> 00:57:25,125
Like you got to think about that.

2266
00:57:25,125 --> 00:57:26,458
All of these criticisms

2267
00:57:26,458 --> 00:57:27,500
that you have,

2268
00:57:27,500 --> 00:57:27,916
you will

2269
00:57:27,916 --> 00:57:31,458
you will in, in, in good faith

2270
00:57:31,791 --> 00:57:33,083
and with good reason,

2271
00:57:33,083 --> 00:57:34,083
you will advocate

2272
00:57:34,083 --> 00:57:35,208
to your friends, family

2273
00:57:35,208 --> 00:57:36,875
and clients that you should buy.

2274
00:57:36,875 --> 00:57:38,250
For example, low,

2275
00:57:38,250 --> 00:57:39,541
low cost index fund

2276
00:57:39,541 --> 00:57:40,416
and say with a straight

2277
00:57:40,416 --> 00:57:42,000
face, it's going up forever.

2278
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:43,666
And although it's volatile,

2279
00:57:43,666 --> 00:57:45,750
volatile volatility is at risk

2280
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:47,750
and you shouldn't worry about it.

2281
00:57:47,750 --> 00:57:49,125
But if you say the exact same thing

2282
00:57:49,125 --> 00:57:51,708
about Bitcoin, it's pure madness,

2283
00:57:51,708 --> 00:57:53,541
right? Like it's it's crazy.

2284
00:57:53,541 --> 00:57:54,208
So anyway

2285
00:57:55,416 --> 00:57:56,083
the penny will drop

2286
00:57:56,083 --> 00:57:57,958
for them eventually.

2287
00:57:57,958 --> 00:57:59,833
Yeah. Do you think on the price.

2288
00:57:59,833 --> 00:58:01,125
Like one of the things that I wonder

2289
00:58:01,125 --> 00:58:02,208
all the time is whether

2290
00:58:02,208 --> 00:58:03,666
the price itself

2291
00:58:03,666 --> 00:58:04,541
per bitcoin

2292
00:58:04,541 --> 00:58:05,958
not we're not getting to SATs

2293
00:58:05,958 --> 00:58:07,541
for now but per a bitcoin.

2294
00:58:07,541 --> 00:58:08,541
Do you think that almost

2295
00:58:08,541 --> 00:58:09,625
is detractor.

2296
00:58:09,625 --> 00:58:11,625
Because I know in equities

2297
00:58:11,625 --> 00:58:12,583
when you have a stock

2298
00:58:12,583 --> 00:58:13,416
that's priced

2299
00:58:13,416 --> 00:58:14,833
ridiculously people think

2300
00:58:14,833 --> 00:58:15,791
oh this is bullshit.

2301
00:58:15,791 --> 00:58:17,083
This is like a premium

2302
00:58:17,083 --> 00:58:20,083
because of some brand or some fluffy

2303
00:58:20,083 --> 00:58:22,833
other metric or

2304
00:58:22,833 --> 00:58:23,083
yeah,

2305
00:58:23,083 --> 00:58:24,458
I don't know how to explain it, but

2306
00:58:24,458 --> 00:58:25,083
do you always think

2307
00:58:25,083 --> 00:58:26,833
like people think Bitcoin will?

2308
00:58:26,833 --> 00:58:28,041
I don't even know what it is now.

2309
00:58:28,041 --> 00:58:28,958
I work for an exchange

2310
00:58:28,958 --> 00:58:31,625
assured it's a 180

2311
00:58:31,625 --> 00:58:32,958
about Aussie dollars.

2312
00:58:32,958 --> 00:58:33,958
Yeah yeah.

2313
00:58:33,958 --> 00:58:36,041
Yeah. Aussie dollar 011 80.

2314
00:58:36,041 --> 00:58:37,875
Only 180,000 per man.

2315
00:58:37,875 --> 00:58:38,750
Yeah I think

2316
00:58:38,750 --> 00:58:39,791
and they think

2317
00:58:39,791 --> 00:58:41,291
they must because it's

2318
00:58:41,291 --> 00:58:43,458
so ridiculously high.

2319
00:58:43,458 --> 00:58:44,750
Like there's no other asset.

2320
00:58:44,750 --> 00:58:46,208
It's price that high.

2321
00:58:46,208 --> 00:58:46,875
They must think

2322
00:58:46,875 --> 00:58:48,708
oh this is just too good to be true.

2323
00:58:48,708 --> 00:58:49,541
It's bullshit.

2324
00:58:49,541 --> 00:58:51,166
And yes, I do.

2325
00:58:51,166 --> 00:58:53,333
Do you think that's a unique bias.

2326
00:58:53,333 --> 00:58:53,625
Yeah.

2327
00:58:53,625 --> 00:58:54,583
And again

2328
00:58:54,583 --> 00:58:55,250
yeah, the

2329
00:58:55,250 --> 00:58:56,208
the experience from

2330
00:58:56,208 --> 00:58:57,250
the world of equities is

2331
00:58:57,250 --> 00:58:58,458
very informative here.

2332
00:58:59,666 --> 00:59:00,791
It's interesting right.

2333
00:59:00,791 --> 00:59:02,625
Because one

2334
00:59:02,625 --> 00:59:03,666
it doesn't stand up to

2335
00:59:03,666 --> 00:59:04,875
any rational thinking.

2336
00:59:04,875 --> 00:59:05,541
And I don't mean

2337
00:59:05,541 --> 00:59:06,708
you have to go down,

2338
00:59:06,708 --> 00:59:07,166
you know,

2339
00:59:07,166 --> 00:59:09,041
spend 100 hours of deep thinking

2340
00:59:09,041 --> 00:59:10,041
and research to arrive

2341
00:59:10,041 --> 00:59:11,000
at this conclusion.

2342
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:12,833
But you can do a pizza analogy

2343
00:59:12,833 --> 00:59:14,208
or any kind of simple

2344
00:59:14,208 --> 00:59:14,958
thought experiment

2345
00:59:14,958 --> 00:59:16,458
and realize that actually

2346
00:59:16,458 --> 00:59:17,750
the number is arbitrary.

2347
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:18,875
It doesn't really matter.

2348
00:59:18,875 --> 00:59:20,166
And the best example of

2349
00:59:20,166 --> 00:59:20,833
that is the poster

2350
00:59:20,833 --> 00:59:22,708
child of equity capitalism

2351
00:59:22,708 --> 00:59:24,666
is is Berkshire Hathaway

2352
00:59:24,666 --> 00:59:26,000
like the class I shares?

2353
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:26,833
I don't even know what they are,

2354
00:59:26,833 --> 00:59:27,583
but they're insanely

2355
00:59:27,583 --> 00:59:29,291
high, like 300,000 us.

2356
00:59:29,291 --> 00:59:30,500
I don't even know what it is.

2357
00:59:30,500 --> 00:59:31,708
It's a lot.

2358
00:59:31,708 --> 00:59:32,333
And so Buffett

2359
00:59:32,333 --> 00:59:33,166
introduced the class

2360
00:59:33,166 --> 00:59:34,416
B shares

2361
00:59:34,416 --> 00:59:35,291
and there's,

2362
00:59:35,291 --> 00:59:35,875
I forget

2363
00:59:35,875 --> 00:59:37,250
if it's 200 for 1 or 2 people

2364
00:59:37,250 --> 00:59:38,833
and whatever it happens to be,

2365
00:59:38,833 --> 00:59:41,083
but they're in a lower price now.

2366
00:59:41,083 --> 00:59:42,125
It's just it's completely

2367
00:59:42,125 --> 00:59:43,541
arbitrary, right?

2368
00:59:43,541 --> 00:59:44,916
But, you know,

2369
00:59:44,916 --> 00:59:46,666
you need it to do it for liquidity,

2370
00:59:46,666 --> 00:59:48,333
but more often really just so people

2371
00:59:48,333 --> 00:59:49,750
don't feel it's too expensive

2372
00:59:49,750 --> 00:59:50,375
every time.

2373
00:59:50,375 --> 00:59:51,000
And I think

2374
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:52,458
the most expensive

2375
00:59:52,458 --> 00:59:54,791
stock listed on the ASX,

2376
00:59:54,791 --> 00:59:55,750
I think is about 300 bucks

2377
00:59:55,750 --> 00:59:57,541
a share or something like that.

2378
00:59:57,541 --> 00:59:58,291
And usually once

2379
00:59:58,291 --> 00:59:59,750
it starts getting to those realms,

2380
00:59:59,750 --> 01:00:01,166
the companies will do a,

2381
01:00:01,166 --> 01:00:02,416
stock split.

2382
01:00:02,416 --> 01:00:03,333
And so they'll just say

2383
01:00:03,333 --> 01:00:04,541
for every share that you've got,

2384
01:00:04,541 --> 01:00:05,750
you now own two.

2385
01:00:05,750 --> 01:00:06,833
So the share price halves

2386
01:00:06,833 --> 01:00:08,083
and everyone goes, oh, it's cheaper,

2387
01:00:08,083 --> 01:00:09,916
I can afford it now.

2388
01:00:09,916 --> 01:00:10,958
It's like

2389
01:00:10,958 --> 01:00:13,500
like magic trick, you know,

2390
01:00:13,500 --> 01:00:14,750
and it's like this.

2391
01:00:14,750 --> 01:00:16,875
You're right on the horizon Andrew.

2392
01:00:16,875 --> 01:00:17,291
Like.

2393
01:00:17,291 --> 01:00:17,666
Yeah.

2394
01:00:17,666 --> 01:00:21,291
It's just it's so like I do get it.

2395
01:00:21,291 --> 01:00:22,416
I do like that's

2396
01:00:22,416 --> 01:00:24,791
the natural knee jerk reaction.

2397
01:00:24,791 --> 01:00:25,500
It's just that

2398
01:00:25,500 --> 01:00:27,083
it doesn't stand up to any,

2399
01:00:27,083 --> 01:00:27,791
any thinking.

2400
01:00:27,791 --> 01:00:28,208
I was going to say

2401
01:00:28,208 --> 01:00:28,833
critical thinking.

2402
01:00:28,833 --> 01:00:31,500
I just mean any thinking whatsoever.

2403
01:00:31,500 --> 01:00:32,458
So to answer your question,

2404
01:00:32,458 --> 01:00:33,041
yes, I do.

2405
01:00:33,041 --> 01:00:34,500
I do think that's a problem.

2406
01:00:34,500 --> 01:00:37,083
I do think that's the shit coin.

2407
01:00:37,083 --> 01:00:38,000
Angle really.

2408
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:38,458
It's like, well,

2409
01:00:38,458 --> 01:00:39,291
I missed bitcoin,

2410
01:00:39,291 --> 01:00:41,208
but maybe I'm not too late for,

2411
01:00:41,208 --> 01:00:42,333
you know, whatever coin.

2412
01:00:43,375 --> 01:00:46,375
So I definitely think that that is,

2413
01:00:47,250 --> 01:00:48,291
a part of it.

2414
01:00:48,291 --> 01:00:48,750
And yeah,

2415
01:00:48,750 --> 01:00:49,458
people don't know

2416
01:00:49,458 --> 01:00:52,458
about the divisibility and,

2417
01:00:53,291 --> 01:00:54,500
it's a stumbling block,

2418
01:00:54,500 --> 01:00:55,458
but I don't know what you do

2419
01:00:55,458 --> 01:00:56,458
about it, though.

2420
01:00:56,458 --> 01:00:57,958
I don't know what the best approach

2421
01:00:57,958 --> 01:00:59,291
I've had

2422
01:00:59,291 --> 01:01:02,083
is to rather than trying to price

2423
01:01:02,083 --> 01:01:03,666
Bitcoin in dollars

2424
01:01:03,666 --> 01:01:05,833
price dollars in Bitcoin.

2425
01:01:05,833 --> 01:01:06,791
So, for example,

2426
01:01:06,791 --> 01:01:08,291
rather than telling your friends,

2427
01:01:08,291 --> 01:01:11,291
oh, it's $180,000 per Bitcoin,

2428
01:01:11,708 --> 01:01:12,291
you could say

2429
01:01:12,291 --> 01:01:15,291
$1 will buy you 860 sats.

2430
01:01:15,333 --> 01:01:15,916
I forget what

2431
01:01:15,916 --> 01:01:17,625
the current conversion is.

2432
01:01:17,625 --> 01:01:21,375
It's like $1 and I get 860 sats.

2433
01:01:21,375 --> 01:01:21,916
What's the SAT

2434
01:01:21,916 --> 01:01:22,458
oh it's like

2435
01:01:22,458 --> 01:01:24,041
sort of sense to dollars

2436
01:01:24,041 --> 01:01:25,916
you know with with bitcoin.

2437
01:01:25,916 --> 01:01:26,625
But it's Bitcoin.

2438
01:01:26,625 --> 01:01:28,416
It's it's effectively bitcoin.

2439
01:01:28,416 --> 01:01:30,750
But you get 860 for just $1.

2440
01:01:30,750 --> 01:01:32,000
And it just

2441
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:32,750
I mean you and I,

2442
01:01:32,750 --> 01:01:34,250
I feel almost silly saying it.

2443
01:01:34,250 --> 01:01:36,500
But I mean it is it reframes

2444
01:01:36,500 --> 01:01:37,708
it a little bit here.

2445
01:01:37,708 --> 01:01:38,833
It's like no

2446
01:01:38,833 --> 01:01:40,833
you you always price

2447
01:01:40,833 --> 01:01:41,750
the weaker currency

2448
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:42,791
on the stronger currency.

2449
01:01:42,791 --> 01:01:44,208
So I think is Bitcoin is

2450
01:01:44,208 --> 01:01:45,833
we need to really lean into that

2451
01:01:45,833 --> 01:01:46,750
and stop talking

2452
01:01:46,750 --> 01:01:49,083
about the dollar value of Bitcoin,

2453
01:01:49,083 --> 01:01:49,666
because who cares

2454
01:01:49,666 --> 01:01:51,083
what it's worth in dollars.

2455
01:01:51,083 --> 01:01:53,000
Well I really care about for someone

2456
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:54,166
who gets paid in dollars

2457
01:01:54,166 --> 01:01:55,458
because I have to at this point in

2458
01:01:55,458 --> 01:01:58,000
time is like, well, when I get that,

2459
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,041
how much SATs can I buy with it?

2460
01:02:00,041 --> 01:02:02,833
And I want that number ideally.

2461
01:02:02,833 --> 01:02:03,750
Well, when I'm acquiring

2462
01:02:03,750 --> 01:02:04,125
and I want,

2463
01:02:04,125 --> 01:02:05,041
I want as many SATs

2464
01:02:05,041 --> 01:02:06,458
for the dollar as I can,

2465
01:02:06,458 --> 01:02:07,541
and then after the fact,

2466
01:02:07,541 --> 01:02:08,625
I want that, I want,

2467
01:02:08,625 --> 01:02:10,250
I want that, that to

2468
01:02:10,250 --> 01:02:11,291
go in the other direction.

2469
01:02:12,583 --> 01:02:14,750
But it's just a framing problem.

2470
01:02:14,750 --> 01:02:16,458
And,

2471
01:02:16,458 --> 01:02:18,125
I mean, it is like human nature.

2472
01:02:18,125 --> 01:02:18,708
It's human nature.

2473
01:02:18,708 --> 01:02:20,125
It'll be a hard hump to get over,

2474
01:02:20,125 --> 01:02:23,125
but people will get there.

2475
01:02:23,333 --> 01:02:23,916
Yeah.

2476
01:02:23,916 --> 01:02:24,708
And I think,

2477
01:02:24,708 --> 01:02:26,208
you know, owning a full bitcoin

2478
01:02:26,208 --> 01:02:27,750
now is becoming

2479
01:02:27,750 --> 01:02:30,125
harder and harder for most people.

2480
01:02:30,125 --> 01:02:31,583
So we do need to start

2481
01:02:31,583 --> 01:02:33,166
communicating in SATs.

2482
01:02:33,166 --> 01:02:35,291
And I know that I don't do it nearly

2483
01:02:35,291 --> 01:02:38,291
enough as a as much as I should.

2484
01:02:39,291 --> 01:02:39,583
Yeah.

2485
01:02:39,583 --> 01:02:40,791
Because a lot of people

2486
01:02:40,791 --> 01:02:41,291
don't even know

2487
01:02:41,291 --> 01:02:41,875
that they can buy

2488
01:02:41,875 --> 01:02:43,125
a fraction of a Bitcoin.

2489
01:02:43,125 --> 01:02:44,958
They, they think they need to buy.

2490
01:02:44,958 --> 01:02:47,750
It's all or nothing.

2491
01:02:47,750 --> 01:02:49,625
So yeah. Yeah.

2492
01:02:49,625 --> 01:02:51,291
Now you can you can buy what?

2493
01:02:51,291 --> 01:02:52,375
You can buy a dollar worth

2494
01:02:52,375 --> 01:02:53,500
if you want.

2495
01:02:53,500 --> 01:02:54,666
Which is why I sort of like it

2496
01:02:54,666 --> 01:02:55,083
this way.

2497
01:02:55,083 --> 01:02:56,416
Like, how could you not like,

2498
01:02:56,416 --> 01:02:57,500
you'll go out one night

2499
01:02:57,500 --> 01:02:58,833
with your friends to a restaurant.

2500
01:02:58,833 --> 01:02:59,416
You'll easily

2501
01:02:59,416 --> 01:03:00,500
drop a couple hundred bucks.

2502
01:03:00,500 --> 01:03:01,458
But you won't.

2503
01:03:01,458 --> 01:03:03,250
You won't buy some SATs.

2504
01:03:03,250 --> 01:03:04,416
Like. It's weird, right?

2505
01:03:04,416 --> 01:03:05,208
That you know.

2506
01:03:05,208 --> 01:03:06,791
Yeah, well, people have people.

2507
01:03:08,500 --> 01:03:08,833
Yeah.

2508
01:03:08,833 --> 01:03:10,083
And the other bias as well

2509
01:03:10,083 --> 01:03:11,208
that people have is like,

2510
01:03:11,208 --> 01:03:12,291
oh, I missed the train.

2511
01:03:12,291 --> 01:03:14,458
I only got into bitcoin last year

2512
01:03:14,458 --> 01:03:16,291
and now I'm up 75%.

2513
01:03:16,291 --> 01:03:19,291
Like that's crazy in, you know

2514
01:03:19,708 --> 01:03:20,333
one year.

2515
01:03:20,333 --> 01:03:23,208
And so everyone. Feels like you.

2516
01:03:23,208 --> 01:03:24,708
I'm really looking forward

2517
01:03:24,708 --> 01:03:26,500
to the bear market

2518
01:03:26,500 --> 01:03:28,333
that I can buy this.

2519
01:03:28,333 --> 01:03:29,000
Yeah.

2520
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:29,416
You know

2521
01:03:29,416 --> 01:03:32,166
I want the price to go down. Like.

2522
01:03:32,166 --> 01:03:33,250
So I used to

2523
01:03:33,250 --> 01:03:35,000
I used to in the very early days.

2524
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:37,083
You

2525
01:03:37,083 --> 01:03:38,708
I mean, I do it with shares to you.

2526
01:03:38,708 --> 01:03:40,541
It's hard to not pull out the phone.

2527
01:03:40,541 --> 01:03:41,083
Look at the app.

2528
01:03:41,083 --> 01:03:41,791
Is number going up,

2529
01:03:41,791 --> 01:03:43,125
number gone gone down.

2530
01:03:43,125 --> 01:03:44,416
You know it's it.

2531
01:03:44,416 --> 01:03:46,375
And I'm so zen about it

2532
01:03:46,375 --> 01:03:47,666
these days with bitcoin.

2533
01:03:47,666 --> 01:03:48,791
And I say

2534
01:03:48,791 --> 01:03:50,000
I want to talk to myself

2535
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,625
if there's a very substantial

2536
01:03:52,625 --> 01:03:54,208
weighting into this thing.

2537
01:03:54,208 --> 01:03:55,250
So my personal net

2538
01:03:55,250 --> 01:03:56,541
wealth can fluctuate

2539
01:03:56,541 --> 01:03:57,708
very significantly

2540
01:03:57,708 --> 01:03:59,916
over the course of of a week.

2541
01:03:59,916 --> 01:04:02,833
And I don't feel anything about it

2542
01:04:02,833 --> 01:04:04,708
because any

2543
01:04:04,708 --> 01:04:06,291
I can't lose

2544
01:04:06,291 --> 01:04:08,583
because any dip is a gift

2545
01:04:08,583 --> 01:04:11,083
and any pump is also a gift.

2546
01:04:11,083 --> 01:04:13,250
Like I can see the on one hand,

2547
01:04:13,250 --> 01:04:15,583
I get to stack it's greater value.

2548
01:04:15,583 --> 01:04:16,541
That's a win.

2549
01:04:16,541 --> 01:04:19,541
On the other, my my value

2550
01:04:19,541 --> 01:04:20,625
at least is measured in

2551
01:04:20,625 --> 01:04:22,750
in the Pacific peso goes up.

2552
01:04:22,750 --> 01:04:24,041
So it's like there's no

2553
01:04:24,041 --> 01:04:25,166
there's no downside here.

2554
01:04:25,166 --> 01:04:26,458
What everything is good

2555
01:04:26,458 --> 01:04:29,041
goes up day goes down day.

2556
01:04:29,041 --> 01:04:30,291
I don't want it to

2557
01:04:30,291 --> 01:04:31,916
like structurally decline

2558
01:04:31,916 --> 01:04:33,791
into oblivion. Let me hasten to add.

2559
01:04:33,791 --> 01:04:37,083
But you know, even if it was a 50%

2560
01:04:37,083 --> 01:04:37,625
drawdown,

2561
01:04:37,625 --> 01:04:39,333
I honestly don't think I would care

2562
01:04:39,333 --> 01:04:40,125
that much.

2563
01:04:40,125 --> 01:04:41,958
In fact, Monga put this really well.

2564
01:04:41,958 --> 01:04:44,000
No, no, Charlie didn't like,

2565
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:44,791
like bitcoin.

2566
01:04:44,791 --> 01:04:45,375
But, you know,

2567
01:04:45,375 --> 01:04:46,458
it was a nine year old dude,

2568
01:04:46,458 --> 01:04:48,250
so maybe we can cut him some slack.

2569
01:04:48,250 --> 01:04:50,416
But incredibly smart person and

2570
01:04:51,708 --> 01:04:53,416
an incredibly good investor

2571
01:04:53,416 --> 01:04:54,541
and he,

2572
01:04:54,541 --> 01:04:55,666
he was much more blunt

2573
01:04:55,666 --> 01:04:57,583
than his partner Warren.

2574
01:04:57,583 --> 01:04:58,875
And he I'm going to

2575
01:04:58,875 --> 01:04:59,875
I'm going to screw it up.

2576
01:04:59,875 --> 01:05:01,166
But he said,

2577
01:05:01,166 --> 01:05:03,333
if you are not the kind of person

2578
01:05:03,333 --> 01:05:04,958
that can deal

2579
01:05:04,958 --> 01:05:06,291
with a 50% drawdown

2580
01:05:06,291 --> 01:05:07,666
with equanimity

2581
01:05:07,666 --> 01:05:08,500
multiple times

2582
01:05:08,500 --> 01:05:10,666
throughout your investment career,

2583
01:05:10,666 --> 01:05:11,791
you do not deserve

2584
01:05:11,791 --> 01:05:12,875
to be a shareholder,

2585
01:05:12,875 --> 01:05:14,541
and you do deserve the mediocre,

2586
01:05:14,541 --> 01:05:16,750
mediocre returns that you will get

2587
01:05:16,750 --> 01:05:17,958
is very blunt.

2588
01:05:17,958 --> 01:05:19,958
He didn't sugarcoat it at all,

2589
01:05:19,958 --> 01:05:21,875
but he's kind of savage.

2590
01:05:21,875 --> 01:05:23,125
Oh, that was one year.

2591
01:05:23,125 --> 01:05:23,958
And that's brilliant.

2592
01:05:23,958 --> 01:05:25,666
And I and I know I buggered that up.

2593
01:05:25,666 --> 01:05:27,041
So I'd encourage people to,

2594
01:05:27,041 --> 01:05:29,041
to Google it to get the,

2595
01:05:29,041 --> 01:05:29,833
get the exact quote

2596
01:05:29,833 --> 01:05:30,791
because he, like Warren,

2597
01:05:30,791 --> 01:05:31,125
has a

2598
01:05:31,125 --> 01:05:32,333
wonderfully pithy way

2599
01:05:32,333 --> 01:05:33,416
of sort of communicating

2600
01:05:33,416 --> 01:05:34,875
very big ideas.

2601
01:05:34,875 --> 01:05:35,750
But he's really getting

2602
01:05:35,750 --> 01:05:36,250
to the point.

2603
01:05:36,250 --> 01:05:36,916
It's like,

2604
01:05:36,916 --> 01:05:37,791
this is

2605
01:05:37,791 --> 01:05:39,541
this is the ticket to the dance.

2606
01:05:39,541 --> 01:05:41,500
Volatility is not risk,

2607
01:05:41,500 --> 01:05:43,666
and it kind of cannot be avoided.

2608
01:05:43,666 --> 01:05:45,583
And if you're going to like go

2609
01:05:45,583 --> 01:05:47,416
and cry and run back to mommy

2610
01:05:47,416 --> 01:05:48,000
every time

2611
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:49,333
something dips 10%,

2612
01:05:49,333 --> 01:05:50,625
you know, it's just sort of like,

2613
01:05:50,625 --> 01:05:51,750
well, don't buy it,

2614
01:05:51,750 --> 01:05:52,833
but just don't complain

2615
01:05:52,833 --> 01:05:54,500
when you get extraordinarily

2616
01:05:54,500 --> 01:05:56,541
mediocre returns.

2617
01:05:56,541 --> 01:05:59,500
And, and also volatility

2618
01:05:59,500 --> 01:06:00,708
only matters

2619
01:06:00,708 --> 01:06:02,875
when you don't know what you own.

2620
01:06:02,875 --> 01:06:04,958
If you know what you own

2621
01:06:04,958 --> 01:06:06,583
and you know why you own it.

2622
01:06:06,583 --> 01:06:07,375
And you know what?

2623
01:06:07,375 --> 01:06:08,375
It's really worth.

2624
01:06:08,375 --> 01:06:09,125
I'm not talking about

2625
01:06:09,125 --> 01:06:10,333
to eight decimal places

2626
01:06:10,333 --> 01:06:11,291
in in currency,

2627
01:06:11,291 --> 01:06:12,166
but it's just like I own

2628
01:06:12,166 --> 01:06:13,625
something that is

2629
01:06:13,625 --> 01:06:15,500
perfectly scarce and fast.

2630
01:06:15,500 --> 01:06:16,416
Becoming the reserve

2631
01:06:16,416 --> 01:06:17,458
currency of the world

2632
01:06:17,458 --> 01:06:18,791
is kind of a big deal.

2633
01:06:18,791 --> 01:06:20,250
And we'll we'll eventually

2634
01:06:20,250 --> 01:06:21,375
reprice everything.

2635
01:06:22,416 --> 01:06:22,791
And I

2636
01:06:22,791 --> 01:06:23,541
really care that it

2637
01:06:23,541 --> 01:06:24,916
drops 10 or 20%, like,

2638
01:06:24,916 --> 01:06:25,333
you know what I mean?

2639
01:06:25,333 --> 01:06:26,833
Like, I know,

2640
01:06:26,833 --> 01:06:27,916
I don't know, I don't know.

2641
01:06:27,916 --> 01:06:28,125
Ask me

2642
01:06:28,125 --> 01:06:30,041
to give you a valuation on Bitcoin,

2643
01:06:30,041 --> 01:06:31,083
but it's worth

2644
01:06:31,083 --> 01:06:33,291
at least several million dollars.

2645
01:06:33,291 --> 01:06:38,875
So 180,000 160,090 thousand 320,000.

2646
01:06:38,875 --> 01:06:40,666
Like what's the difference. Right.

2647
01:06:40,666 --> 01:06:41,958
It's all thinking

2648
01:06:41,958 --> 01:06:46,000
cheap and and my average buy

2649
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:49,333
price is 40 grand Australian and,

2650
01:06:50,583 --> 01:06:51,708
I bought some higher.

2651
01:06:51,708 --> 01:06:53,083
I bought some lower.

2652
01:06:53,083 --> 01:06:54,666
But I can tell you at the time

2653
01:06:54,666 --> 01:06:57,666
I was way too late, so, like,

2654
01:06:58,333 --> 01:07:00,291
I have to pay this much, right?

2655
01:07:00,291 --> 01:07:01,208
And then

2656
01:07:01,208 --> 01:07:03,291
and then I got more serious with it,

2657
01:07:03,291 --> 01:07:04,583
and then I ended up

2658
01:07:04,583 --> 01:07:06,166
liquidating my super.

2659
01:07:06,166 --> 01:07:07,458
And then I put it all into super.

2660
01:07:07,458 --> 01:07:09,708
I had 100 K Australian.

2661
01:07:09,708 --> 01:07:11,875
Oh, my God, this is so painful.

2662
01:07:11,875 --> 01:07:13,875
I'm, you know,

2663
01:07:13,875 --> 01:07:14,958
why didn't I do it earlier?

2664
01:07:14,958 --> 01:07:16,250
I'm, you know, all.

2665
01:07:16,250 --> 01:07:16,583
I mean,

2666
01:07:16,583 --> 01:07:18,000
I didn't think I was to, like,

2667
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:19,041
I think I did enough

2668
01:07:19,041 --> 01:07:20,625
by that stage to realize.

2669
01:07:20,625 --> 01:07:22,333
But it was hard, right?

2670
01:07:22,333 --> 01:07:23,291
And now I look at.

2671
01:07:23,291 --> 01:07:25,125
It's so funny how your your

2672
01:07:26,250 --> 01:07:26,916
how quickly your

2673
01:07:26,916 --> 01:07:28,791
expectations and the price

2674
01:07:28,791 --> 01:07:30,750
that you anchor on changes.

2675
01:07:30,750 --> 01:07:32,625
So I look at it now, I'm just oh,

2676
01:07:32,625 --> 01:07:34,041
I should get some more of it.

2677
01:07:34,041 --> 01:07:34,750
Couldn't have got more.

2678
01:07:34,750 --> 01:07:35,291
That went all in,

2679
01:07:35,291 --> 01:07:35,916
but you know what I mean.

2680
01:07:35,916 --> 01:07:38,208
It's like, oh, it's so cheap.

2681
01:07:38,208 --> 01:07:40,041
And I say with my wife all the time,

2682
01:07:40,041 --> 01:07:41,291
it's like every now and again

2683
01:07:41,291 --> 01:07:42,375
Bitcoin does its thing.

2684
01:07:42,375 --> 01:07:44,083
And you know, every it's like, whoa,

2685
01:07:44,083 --> 01:07:45,166
nothing happens forever.

2686
01:07:45,166 --> 01:07:46,000
And then everything happens

2687
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:47,583
in a short space of time.

2688
01:07:47,583 --> 01:07:48,916
And you go through those periods

2689
01:07:48,916 --> 01:07:50,625
which is pumping as like,

2690
01:07:50,625 --> 01:07:51,291
oh sweetheart,

2691
01:07:51,291 --> 01:07:52,333
did you see that move?

2692
01:07:52,333 --> 01:07:54,041
I want to get all I got to this.

2693
01:07:54,041 --> 01:07:55,833
And you always measure yourself

2694
01:07:55,833 --> 01:07:57,041
from the high watermark.

2695
01:07:57,041 --> 01:07:57,583
See, you're right.

2696
01:07:57,583 --> 01:07:58,541
In the last 12 months,

2697
01:07:58,541 --> 01:07:59,625
in Australian dollar terms, we're

2698
01:07:59,625 --> 01:08:01,416
pretty much we've doubled.

2699
01:08:01,416 --> 01:08:02,291
And yet

2700
01:08:02,291 --> 01:08:03,708
I think the top take in Aussie

2701
01:08:03,708 --> 01:08:05,416
dollar terms was,

2702
01:08:05,416 --> 01:08:06,916
and I say 187,000,

2703
01:08:06,916 --> 01:08:08,500
something like that.

2704
01:08:08,500 --> 01:08:10,375
Let me look it up. And right now,

2705
01:08:11,416 --> 01:08:13,583
right now we're at 176,000.

2706
01:08:13,583 --> 01:08:16,500
187. Sounds about right. Yeah.

2707
01:08:16,500 --> 01:08:18,375
I think the very top right.

2708
01:08:18,375 --> 01:08:19,166
And again,

2709
01:08:19,166 --> 01:08:20,000
I'm zen enough

2710
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:22,125
not to care about this at all.

2711
01:08:22,125 --> 01:08:23,166
But the lizard brain,

2712
01:08:23,166 --> 01:08:25,333
the monkey brain back here

2713
01:08:25,333 --> 01:08:28,666
is going oh oh 176.

2714
01:08:29,500 --> 01:08:31,291
What's it doing like?

2715
01:08:31,291 --> 01:08:34,291
It's crazy. Yeah.

2716
01:08:34,791 --> 01:08:36,500
I also feel like

2717
01:08:36,500 --> 01:08:37,125
I would be

2718
01:08:37,125 --> 01:08:39,208
personally more nervous

2719
01:08:39,208 --> 01:08:42,750
if stocks went down 40% than I would

2720
01:08:42,750 --> 01:08:44,500
if Bitcoin went down 40%.

2721
01:08:44,500 --> 01:08:45,625
Because partially

2722
01:08:45,625 --> 01:08:46,791
because I understand bitcoin

2723
01:08:46,791 --> 01:08:47,458
a lot better,

2724
01:08:47,458 --> 01:08:49,541
but also because stocks require you

2725
01:08:49,541 --> 01:08:51,750
to trust someone else, whereas

2726
01:08:51,750 --> 01:08:53,375
I trust Bitcoin

2727
01:08:53,375 --> 01:08:55,166
so much to trust the fundamentals.

2728
01:08:55,166 --> 01:08:56,833
I understand that

2729
01:08:56,833 --> 01:08:59,833
I kind of expect this these

2730
01:09:00,041 --> 01:09:01,625
drawbacks from time to time.

2731
01:09:01,625 --> 01:09:03,833
And I'm ready for them.

2732
01:09:03,833 --> 01:09:06,291
Yeah I'm ready to buy more

2733
01:09:06,291 --> 01:09:07,416
when they dip.

2734
01:09:07,416 --> 01:09:09,500
It's a gift. It's an absolute gift.

2735
01:09:09,500 --> 01:09:11,041
And what let's be real.

2736
01:09:11,041 --> 01:09:11,583
I mean,

2737
01:09:11,583 --> 01:09:12,833
how do you think something

2738
01:09:12,833 --> 01:09:13,791
is going to monetize

2739
01:09:13,791 --> 01:09:15,750
from zero to the ultimate reserve

2740
01:09:15,750 --> 01:09:17,208
asset of the world?

2741
01:09:17,208 --> 01:09:18,000
And it's going to do

2742
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:19,125
so in a measured,

2743
01:09:19,125 --> 01:09:20,250
even linear

2744
01:09:20,250 --> 01:09:21,666
fashion, like there's no reality

2745
01:09:21,666 --> 01:09:23,291
in which that's possible.

2746
01:09:23,291 --> 01:09:24,875
It's going to be messy.

2747
01:09:24,875 --> 01:09:27,041
It's going to have big surges,

2748
01:09:27,041 --> 01:09:28,583
followed by big crashes,

2749
01:09:28,583 --> 01:09:30,333
like it could never be anything.

2750
01:09:30,333 --> 01:09:30,916
Thus.

2751
01:09:30,916 --> 01:09:31,625
And again,

2752
01:09:31,625 --> 01:09:32,541
the equity markets

2753
01:09:32,541 --> 01:09:33,833
are incredibly informative

2754
01:09:33,833 --> 01:09:34,333
in this regard

2755
01:09:34,333 --> 01:09:35,791
because that's what they did

2756
01:09:35,791 --> 01:09:36,916
and that's what they continue to do.

2757
01:09:36,916 --> 01:09:38,541
And that's what they will always do.

2758
01:09:38,541 --> 01:09:39,125
Right?

2759
01:09:39,125 --> 01:09:40,250
No one looks at the stock

2760
01:09:40,250 --> 01:09:41,375
market and goes, oh,

2761
01:09:41,375 --> 01:09:42,708
that crashed in 2009.

2762
01:09:42,708 --> 01:09:43,250
Therefore you shouldn't

2763
01:09:43,250 --> 01:09:44,416
put any money in the market.

2764
01:09:44,416 --> 01:09:46,125
Like what are you an idiot?

2765
01:09:46,125 --> 01:09:48,916
No, volatility is is not risk.

2766
01:09:48,916 --> 01:09:49,333
So

2767
01:09:50,416 --> 01:09:52,041
yeah, I don't I,

2768
01:09:52,041 --> 01:09:56,208
I don't know how you you get past

2769
01:09:56,208 --> 01:09:57,916
all of these behavioral biases

2770
01:09:57,916 --> 01:10:00,958
other than just recognize them and

2771
01:10:01,333 --> 01:10:01,750
and it's

2772
01:10:01,750 --> 01:10:04,541
why it's why the simple things

2773
01:10:04,541 --> 01:10:06,208
are the easiest things

2774
01:10:06,208 --> 01:10:09,166
which is just DCA.

2775
01:10:09,166 --> 01:10:10,083
When is the best time

2776
01:10:10,083 --> 01:10:10,875
to buy Bitcoin.

2777
01:10:10,875 --> 01:10:12,208
Whenever you've got spare cash

2778
01:10:12,208 --> 01:10:13,541
that you don't need for a few years,

2779
01:10:13,541 --> 01:10:14,500
that's the best time to buy.

2780
01:10:14,500 --> 01:10:15,208
If you could just buy

2781
01:10:15,208 --> 01:10:16,875
Bitcoin at that point in time

2782
01:10:16,875 --> 01:10:18,625
and if you're like me,

2783
01:10:18,625 --> 01:10:19,250
you because

2784
01:10:19,250 --> 01:10:20,500
we laugh about it at home,

2785
01:10:20,500 --> 01:10:23,500
it's like, if I have to

2786
01:10:24,375 --> 01:10:26,000
sell some bike and I look, trust me,

2787
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:26,916
I never sell Bitcoin,

2788
01:10:26,916 --> 01:10:28,041
but sometimes I need to spend

2789
01:10:28,041 --> 01:10:29,166
some of my money on things

2790
01:10:29,166 --> 01:10:30,125
like a house or whatever,

2791
01:10:30,125 --> 01:10:32,083
which I did recently.

2792
01:10:32,083 --> 01:10:33,041
It's very painful.

2793
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:35,833
But you know that the

2794
01:10:35,833 --> 01:10:36,958
moment you bitcoin.

2795
01:10:36,958 --> 01:10:38,666
Oh, it's so painful. Right?

2796
01:10:38,666 --> 01:10:40,166
Buying a house is important to me

2797
01:10:40,166 --> 01:10:42,125
and I don't regret it. So.

2798
01:10:42,125 --> 01:10:43,708
And I've still got a decent stack

2799
01:10:43,708 --> 01:10:44,708
don't get me wrong.

2800
01:10:44,708 --> 01:10:45,875
But it was painful to sell.

2801
01:10:45,875 --> 01:10:46,791
But what do you think on

2802
01:10:46,791 --> 01:10:47,208
you happened

2803
01:10:47,208 --> 01:10:49,000
the day after I sold

2804
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:51,333
like it pump 5%.

2805
01:10:51,333 --> 01:10:53,166
Oh bloody well. And then?

2806
01:10:53,166 --> 01:10:53,750
And then you

2807
01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:54,583
and then you get to save.

2808
01:10:54,583 --> 01:10:55,166
I've made a cash

2809
01:10:55,166 --> 01:10:56,000
and you go and buy it.

2810
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:56,916
What happens the day

2811
01:10:56,916 --> 01:10:57,833
after you buy it?

2812
01:10:57,833 --> 01:10:59,916
It falls 5% like.

2813
01:10:59,916 --> 01:11:01,875
That's just the gods. Fucking sorry.

2814
01:11:01,875 --> 01:11:02,750
If I can swear or not,

2815
01:11:02,750 --> 01:11:03,291
but if the gods are

2816
01:11:03,291 --> 01:11:04,625
fucking with you. Right.

2817
01:11:04,625 --> 01:11:05,250
And that's it's

2818
01:11:05,250 --> 01:11:06,250
what's going to happen

2819
01:11:06,250 --> 01:11:07,500
and you're going to go,

2820
01:11:07,500 --> 01:11:08,750
even though you know that

2821
01:11:08,750 --> 01:11:09,583
this thing is worth

2822
01:11:09,583 --> 01:11:10,875
millions of dollars, right?

2823
01:11:10,875 --> 01:11:12,166
You're still going to go,

2824
01:11:12,166 --> 01:11:14,666
oh, do you know it?

2825
01:11:14,666 --> 01:11:15,541
Now?

2826
01:11:15,541 --> 01:11:17,541
I, I can, I can

2827
01:11:17,541 --> 01:11:18,875
I can't guarantee anything.

2828
01:11:18,875 --> 01:11:20,083
But I'm going to be pretty confident

2829
01:11:20,083 --> 01:11:20,958
in, in a few years time.

2830
01:11:20,958 --> 01:11:21,375
You're not even going

2831
01:11:21,375 --> 01:11:23,000
to remember that right.

2832
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:24,875
And I don't I.

2833
01:11:24,875 --> 01:11:25,833
Yeah I remember as well

2834
01:11:25,833 --> 01:11:27,416
because my only good in last year.

2835
01:11:27,416 --> 01:11:28,708
So my average was just like

2836
01:11:28,708 --> 01:11:31,291
under 100,000 Australian.

2837
01:11:31,291 --> 01:11:32,208
Yeah. And I was like.

2838
01:11:32,208 --> 01:11:34,125
Oh that's my super.

2839
01:11:34,125 --> 01:11:34,791
Yeah. Yeah.

2840
01:11:34,791 --> 01:11:35,083
I was like

2841
01:11:35,083 --> 01:11:36,666
oh we should go in like around

2842
01:11:36,666 --> 01:11:38,708
80 at least rather than 100.

2843
01:11:38,708 --> 01:11:40,791
And now that we're like past 100,000

2844
01:11:40,791 --> 01:11:41,916
U.S, I'm like,

2845
01:11:41,916 --> 01:11:43,208
I got in a really good time.

2846
01:11:43,208 --> 01:11:45,666
I'll be able to, you know. Yeah.

2847
01:11:45,666 --> 01:11:46,541
And it's a great time.

2848
01:11:46,541 --> 01:11:47,416
Now the point,

2849
01:11:47,416 --> 01:11:48,541
the point is, is that

2850
01:11:48,541 --> 01:11:49,500
even if you're listening to it

2851
01:11:49,500 --> 01:11:51,041
now, it's still a great time.

2852
01:11:51,041 --> 01:11:53,291
It's still a great time because.

2853
01:11:53,291 --> 01:11:54,500
It's. Still cheap.

2854
01:11:54,500 --> 01:11:55,916
I'm always gone

2855
01:11:55,916 --> 01:11:56,791
and I'm not even gone.

2856
01:11:56,791 --> 01:11:58,125
I'm starting to try and change

2857
01:11:58,125 --> 01:11:59,250
my language around that.

2858
01:11:59,250 --> 01:12:01,416
I don't buy or sell bitcoin.

2859
01:12:01,416 --> 01:12:02,708
I, I x

2860
01:12:02,708 --> 01:12:05,500
I exchange for bitcoin, right?

2861
01:12:05,500 --> 01:12:07,333
And I never sell my bitcoin.

2862
01:12:07,333 --> 01:12:08,791
But very occasionally

2863
01:12:08,791 --> 01:12:10,333
when I absolutely have to, I do

2864
01:12:10,333 --> 01:12:12,041
I do spend some of my bitcoin

2865
01:12:12,041 --> 01:12:13,833
because newsflash

2866
01:12:13,833 --> 01:12:15,166
that's what money's for.

2867
01:12:15,166 --> 01:12:16,333
It's for saving my value

2868
01:12:16,333 --> 01:12:17,875
and then and exchanging it

2869
01:12:17,875 --> 01:12:19,125
at a later point in time

2870
01:12:19,125 --> 01:12:20,791
when things of value

2871
01:12:20,791 --> 01:12:21,291
and meaning

2872
01:12:21,291 --> 01:12:22,041
are offered to me

2873
01:12:22,041 --> 01:12:23,458
and I can spend my money on it,

2874
01:12:23,458 --> 01:12:25,083
I'm going to do that right,

2875
01:12:25,083 --> 01:12:26,208
but I'm not going to sell it.

2876
01:12:26,208 --> 01:12:28,125
I'm never going to cash out.

2877
01:12:28,125 --> 01:12:30,333
I'm never going to take profit

2878
01:12:30,333 --> 01:12:32,166
because it's just my

2879
01:12:32,166 --> 01:12:33,833
it's my unit of account.

2880
01:12:33,833 --> 01:12:36,500
And so liberating to cash it

2881
01:12:36,500 --> 01:12:37,958
just it just

2882
01:12:37,958 --> 01:12:39,166
my optimism towards

2883
01:12:39,166 --> 01:12:40,791
the future has changed.

2884
01:12:40,791 --> 01:12:42,541
My confidence in the futures

2885
01:12:42,541 --> 01:12:43,875
has changed.

2886
01:12:43,875 --> 01:12:46,250
My my financial grounding is like

2887
01:12:46,250 --> 01:12:47,833
everything has sort of changed.

2888
01:12:47,833 --> 01:12:48,833
And let me tell you this,

2889
01:12:48,833 --> 01:12:51,041
which is really cool from a,

2890
01:12:51,041 --> 01:12:53,291
an equity investor standpoint,

2891
01:12:53,291 --> 01:12:54,541
is that

2892
01:12:54,541 --> 01:12:55,208
I've done okay

2893
01:12:55,208 --> 01:12:56,541
out of this equity game. Right?

2894
01:12:56,541 --> 01:12:58,458
I go, you know, I've done some dumb

2895
01:12:58,458 --> 01:12:59,958
I've bought plenty of dumb stocks,

2896
01:12:59,958 --> 01:13:01,041
too many to mention here,

2897
01:13:01,041 --> 01:13:02,208
but I've bought

2898
01:13:02,208 --> 01:13:04,291
a few good ones as well.

2899
01:13:04,291 --> 01:13:06,666
But it's hard work.

2900
01:13:06,666 --> 01:13:08,875
Like, it's really hard work.

2901
01:13:08,875 --> 01:13:10,458
I have to know all kinds of things

2902
01:13:10,458 --> 01:13:11,083
about various

2903
01:13:11,083 --> 01:13:12,458
different business models.

2904
01:13:12,458 --> 01:13:13,375
I've got to know how to read

2905
01:13:13,375 --> 01:13:14,666
financials statements

2906
01:13:14,666 --> 01:13:15,291
and actually

2907
01:13:15,291 --> 01:13:16,875
really read them properly.

2908
01:13:16,875 --> 01:13:18,166
I've got to have a good sense

2909
01:13:18,166 --> 01:13:20,416
of what this company's strategy is,

2910
01:13:20,416 --> 01:13:21,291
the ethics,

2911
01:13:21,291 --> 01:13:23,291
and the capability and alignment

2912
01:13:23,291 --> 01:13:25,166
of the leaders in charge,

2913
01:13:25,166 --> 01:13:26,000
how that business

2914
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:27,375
is operating within a broader

2915
01:13:27,375 --> 01:13:29,250
macroeconomic context,

2916
01:13:29,250 --> 01:13:29,958
what's happening

2917
01:13:29,958 --> 01:13:31,083
with the cost of capital

2918
01:13:31,083 --> 01:13:31,916
and interest rates?

2919
01:13:31,916 --> 01:13:34,541
And but like a million things

2920
01:13:34,541 --> 01:13:36,375
I need to try and do

2921
01:13:36,375 --> 01:13:37,458
and study and work

2922
01:13:37,458 --> 01:13:39,083
and for me to think

2923
01:13:39,083 --> 01:13:40,625
I understand this business

2924
01:13:40,625 --> 01:13:41,083
and then

2925
01:13:41,083 --> 01:13:42,583
and then independently

2926
01:13:42,583 --> 01:13:44,416
come up with a market valuation

2927
01:13:44,416 --> 01:13:45,375
so I can determine

2928
01:13:45,375 --> 01:13:46,041
whether the market

2929
01:13:46,041 --> 01:13:47,416
is offering me a good price

2930
01:13:47,416 --> 01:13:49,541
so I can buy it, hoping

2931
01:13:49,541 --> 01:13:51,000
that the other people in the market

2932
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:52,125
will recognize the value

2933
01:13:52,125 --> 01:13:52,916
and push it up.

2934
01:13:52,916 --> 01:13:53,958
But when that happens,

2935
01:13:53,958 --> 01:13:55,458
then the value is no longer there.

2936
01:13:55,458 --> 01:13:56,000
And then maybe

2937
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:57,291
I need to think about it all again.

2938
01:13:57,291 --> 01:13:58,250
And so like

2939
01:13:58,250 --> 01:13:59,916
if that sounds like super hard work,

2940
01:13:59,916 --> 01:14:00,958
it is hard work.

2941
01:14:00,958 --> 01:14:01,291
And I

2942
01:14:01,291 --> 01:14:02,625
and before Bitcoin came along,

2943
01:14:02,625 --> 01:14:03,583
I would still sing

2944
01:14:03,583 --> 01:14:04,375
the praises of that

2945
01:14:04,375 --> 01:14:05,875
because it can be very lucrative

2946
01:14:05,875 --> 01:14:07,166
if you are again, like with Bitcoin,

2947
01:14:07,166 --> 01:14:08,416
if you're prepared to do the work,

2948
01:14:08,416 --> 01:14:09,208
there's great value

2949
01:14:09,208 --> 01:14:11,083
and great reward in doing that.

2950
01:14:11,083 --> 01:14:13,250
But when it comes to Bitcoin,

2951
01:14:13,250 --> 01:14:14,625
it's just like

2952
01:14:14,625 --> 01:14:16,666
is the network operating

2953
01:14:16,666 --> 01:14:17,291
back to bit?

2954
01:14:17,291 --> 01:14:18,208
Like I don't need

2955
01:14:18,208 --> 01:14:19,250
to think about anything else.

2956
01:14:19,250 --> 01:14:20,125
Is adoption

2957
01:14:20,125 --> 01:14:21,750
continuing to trend upwards

2958
01:14:21,750 --> 01:14:23,416
and is the network operating?

2959
01:14:23,416 --> 01:14:25,125
I don't care about interest rates.

2960
01:14:25,125 --> 01:14:26,291
I don't care about

2961
01:14:26,291 --> 01:14:27,708
quarterly earnings.

2962
01:14:27,708 --> 01:14:30,583
I don't care if there is no CEO

2963
01:14:30,583 --> 01:14:31,541
whatever they're doing.

2964
01:14:31,541 --> 01:14:33,083
You know, it's this sort of like

2965
01:14:33,083 --> 01:14:34,208
and that's why I said at the start,

2966
01:14:34,208 --> 01:14:35,208
it's so low risk

2967
01:14:35,208 --> 01:14:36,375
because there's really only,

2968
01:14:36,375 --> 01:14:37,125
you know,

2969
01:14:37,125 --> 01:14:39,041
a tiny handful of things that matter

2970
01:14:39,041 --> 01:14:40,666
and that kind of more

2971
01:14:40,666 --> 01:14:41,916
or less eternal

2972
01:14:41,916 --> 01:14:44,208
and unchanging for the most part.

2973
01:14:44,208 --> 01:14:45,708
And as long as that remains

2974
01:14:45,708 --> 01:14:46,166
true, it

2975
01:14:46,166 --> 01:14:49,041
may it make sense to continue to

2976
01:14:49,041 --> 01:14:49,458
own it

2977
01:14:49,458 --> 01:14:50,791
and buy it and expect

2978
01:14:50,791 --> 01:14:52,958
that adoption will continue to grow.

2979
01:14:52,958 --> 01:14:54,208
And that means that I can now

2980
01:14:54,208 --> 01:14:55,791
spend my time

2981
01:14:55,791 --> 01:14:57,166
trying to deliver real value

2982
01:14:57,166 --> 01:14:58,416
for the world through my business,

2983
01:14:58,416 --> 01:14:59,000
through my labor,

2984
01:14:59,000 --> 01:14:59,750
through whatever one,

2985
01:14:59,750 --> 01:15:01,250
anything I want to do.

2986
01:15:01,250 --> 01:15:02,708
And then I can spend my free time

2987
01:15:02,708 --> 01:15:03,916
as free time,

2988
01:15:03,916 --> 01:15:05,416
not as as so many people

2989
01:15:05,416 --> 01:15:06,833
in the Bitcoin space rightly say,

2990
01:15:06,833 --> 01:15:08,666
I don't have to earn my money twice,

2991
01:15:08,666 --> 01:15:10,000
one with my job,

2992
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:12,500
and then B by becoming an investment

2993
01:15:12,500 --> 01:15:14,916
analyst in my spare time

2994
01:15:14,916 --> 01:15:17,125
just so I don't lose my money.

2995
01:15:17,125 --> 01:15:19,333
And it's just sort of like,

2996
01:15:19,333 --> 01:15:20,750
gosh, that's a liberating thing.

2997
01:15:20,750 --> 01:15:22,291
And and yeah,

2998
01:15:22,291 --> 01:15:23,291
I don't know where I was going

2999
01:15:23,291 --> 01:15:24,500
at that point other than to sort of

3000
01:15:24,500 --> 01:15:27,458
say it's being a being a

3001
01:15:27,458 --> 01:15:27,916
that notion,

3002
01:15:27,916 --> 01:15:29,541
even use the term investor in

3003
01:15:29,541 --> 01:15:30,333
because I'm not

3004
01:15:30,333 --> 01:15:31,333
an investor in Bitcoin,

3005
01:15:31,333 --> 01:15:31,916
but being someone

3006
01:15:31,916 --> 01:15:33,500
who has adopted Bitcoin,

3007
01:15:33,500 --> 01:15:34,125
I've got very,

3008
01:15:34,125 --> 01:15:35,708
very few things that I need

3009
01:15:35,708 --> 01:15:37,250
to keep track of and,

3010
01:15:37,250 --> 01:15:39,541
and, and worry about

3011
01:15:39,541 --> 01:15:41,208
to be safe and confident

3012
01:15:42,333 --> 01:15:42,708
in where

3013
01:15:42,708 --> 01:15:45,041
my monetary value is held,

3014
01:15:45,041 --> 01:15:45,791
if that makes sense.

3015
01:15:45,791 --> 01:15:47,541
Absolutely. Yeah.

3016
01:15:47,541 --> 01:15:48,833
And unlike

3017
01:15:48,833 --> 01:15:50,083
having to learn each

3018
01:15:50,083 --> 01:15:51,208
individual stock

3019
01:15:51,208 --> 01:15:51,750
or equity

3020
01:15:51,750 --> 01:15:52,541
that you look into

3021
01:15:52,541 --> 01:15:53,125
and as you stand,

3022
01:15:53,125 --> 01:15:53,750
the companies

3023
01:15:53,750 --> 01:15:55,333
behind them in the leadership

3024
01:15:55,333 --> 01:15:56,250
behind them,

3025
01:15:56,250 --> 01:15:58,250
you kind of learn Bitcoin once

3026
01:15:58,250 --> 01:15:59,541
and then you just

3027
01:15:59,541 --> 01:16:01,166
keep topping up your knowledge

3028
01:16:01,166 --> 01:16:02,416
like a software upgrade

3029
01:16:02,416 --> 01:16:03,750
every few months.

3030
01:16:03,750 --> 01:16:04,875
Yeah, yeah.

3031
01:16:04,875 --> 01:16:06,041
And there's no no lot to keep on

3032
01:16:06,041 --> 01:16:07,541
top of it either. Really.

3033
01:16:07,541 --> 01:16:09,583
Think you know what I mean?

3034
01:16:09,583 --> 01:16:10,791
Like, don't get me wrong,

3035
01:16:10,791 --> 01:16:11,666
there's a million things

3036
01:16:11,666 --> 01:16:12,708
that we can always talk

3037
01:16:12,708 --> 01:16:13,833
about and, and,

3038
01:16:13,833 --> 01:16:15,375
and there are but they're not

3039
01:16:15,375 --> 01:16:16,666
they're not foundational

3040
01:16:16,666 --> 01:16:18,000
to the thesis.

3041
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:19,458
They're all like interesting

3042
01:16:19,458 --> 01:16:21,208
aspects of how it's unfolding,

3043
01:16:21,208 --> 01:16:21,791
what's happening

3044
01:16:21,791 --> 01:16:22,791
on the regulatory front.

3045
01:16:22,791 --> 01:16:23,583
They're all interesting

3046
01:16:23,583 --> 01:16:25,041
and they're all important in a way.

3047
01:16:25,041 --> 01:16:26,916
But the big foundational

3048
01:16:26,916 --> 01:16:29,083
stuff is, is is unchanging.

3049
01:16:30,375 --> 01:16:31,916
I feel like this past year, for me

3050
01:16:31,916 --> 01:16:33,500
is like a learned about Bitcoin.

3051
01:16:33,500 --> 01:16:34,541
And now all the news

3052
01:16:34,541 --> 01:16:35,833
that I keep up with

3053
01:16:35,833 --> 01:16:37,500
is just good news stories.

3054
01:16:37,500 --> 01:16:38,416
It's like, oh, look at this.

3055
01:16:38,416 --> 01:16:39,250
Mainstream media

3056
01:16:39,250 --> 01:16:40,458
changing the in tune.

3057
01:16:40,458 --> 01:16:42,083
Oh look at this trad five bro.

3058
01:16:42,083 --> 01:16:43,083
Changing his tune.

3059
01:16:43,083 --> 01:16:43,916
Yeah well look at this.

3060
01:16:43,916 --> 01:16:45,500
Like you know all these people.

3061
01:16:45,500 --> 01:16:47,458
The skeptics now absolutely love it.

3062
01:16:47,458 --> 01:16:48,083
And people

3063
01:16:48,083 --> 01:16:50,500
who are, skeptical of Bitcoin.

3064
01:16:50,500 --> 01:16:51,791
Now now you're saying

3065
01:16:51,791 --> 01:16:53,166
increase your allocation in it.

3066
01:16:53,166 --> 01:16:53,500
And so

3067
01:16:53,500 --> 01:16:54,291
you just keep hearing

3068
01:16:54,291 --> 01:16:54,958
these good news

3069
01:16:54,958 --> 01:16:57,458
which just validating.

3070
01:16:57,458 --> 01:16:58,250
And it's interesting

3071
01:16:58,250 --> 01:16:59,541
because for Bitcoin is

3072
01:16:59,541 --> 01:17:02,500
the risk isn't the volatility.

3073
01:17:02,500 --> 01:17:04,333
It's not regulation.

3074
01:17:04,333 --> 01:17:06,000
It's not all these things

3075
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:07,958
that you would typically think of.

3076
01:17:07,958 --> 01:17:09,416
There's risk in the traditional

3077
01:17:09,416 --> 01:17:10,875
finance world.

3078
01:17:10,875 --> 01:17:12,458
It's more like your biggest risk

3079
01:17:12,458 --> 01:17:13,833
in Bitcoin is yourself.

3080
01:17:13,833 --> 01:17:16,083
Your ability to self-custody

3081
01:17:16,083 --> 01:17:17,166
is your biggest risk.

3082
01:17:17,166 --> 01:17:19,333
Get that right and your sweet.

3083
01:17:19,333 --> 01:17:22,333
Oh yes, you're 100% right on.

3084
01:17:22,333 --> 01:17:24,375
But also added to that, you're

3085
01:17:24,375 --> 01:17:25,583
being sort of the master

3086
01:17:25,583 --> 01:17:27,875
of your emotions as well. Right.

3087
01:17:27,875 --> 01:17:28,666
So it's like, yes,

3088
01:17:28,666 --> 01:17:30,083
you definitely need

3089
01:17:30,083 --> 01:17:30,875
to get some of those

3090
01:17:30,875 --> 01:17:31,958
technical aspects. Right.

3091
01:17:31,958 --> 01:17:33,166
But also just

3092
01:17:33,166 --> 01:17:34,583
just not be the kind of person

3093
01:17:34,583 --> 01:17:35,583
who's going to panic.

3094
01:17:35,583 --> 01:17:36,875
We are fortunate

3095
01:17:36,875 --> 01:17:39,208
and this is the danger,

3096
01:17:39,208 --> 01:17:40,750
I thing I'm aware of,

3097
01:17:40,750 --> 01:17:41,416
I don't want to speak

3098
01:17:41,416 --> 01:17:42,041
for you on your.

3099
01:17:42,041 --> 01:17:45,041
But as I said, I kind of

3100
01:17:45,041 --> 01:17:46,208
I'll take my super balanced

3101
01:17:46,208 --> 01:17:47,791
because I it's been about a year

3102
01:17:47,791 --> 01:17:48,916
and it's only gone up

3103
01:17:48,916 --> 01:17:50,083
since I bought it.

3104
01:17:50,083 --> 01:17:51,791
So it's easy to be high conviction

3105
01:17:51,791 --> 01:17:53,208
when things are going up.

3106
01:17:53,208 --> 01:17:53,708
But again,

3107
01:17:53,708 --> 01:17:54,791
I've been in the investing game

3108
01:17:54,791 --> 01:17:55,541
long enough to know that

3109
01:17:55,541 --> 01:17:56,541
that doesn't always happen.

3110
01:17:56,541 --> 01:17:58,000
And at some point I don't know when.

3111
01:17:58,000 --> 01:17:58,750
I don't know why,

3112
01:17:58,750 --> 01:17:59,750
I don't know what the catalyst

3113
01:17:59,750 --> 01:18:00,583
is going to be,

3114
01:18:00,583 --> 01:18:01,916
but we're going to suffer through a

3115
01:18:01,916 --> 01:18:04,041
brutal, crippling bear market

3116
01:18:04,041 --> 01:18:05,458
and everyone

3117
01:18:05,458 --> 01:18:06,916
everyone's got high conviction

3118
01:18:06,916 --> 01:18:07,583
in a bull market.

3119
01:18:07,583 --> 01:18:08,625
It's easy to say

3120
01:18:08,625 --> 01:18:10,333
all of this stuff in a bull market.

3121
01:18:10,333 --> 01:18:11,750
It's very hard to say it

3122
01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:14,083
when your net wealth is down 50%

3123
01:18:14,083 --> 01:18:15,958
and everyone's saying it's dead

3124
01:18:15,958 --> 01:18:16,625
and it's, it's,

3125
01:18:16,625 --> 01:18:18,083
it's it will test

3126
01:18:18,083 --> 01:18:19,833
you more than anything else,

3127
01:18:19,833 --> 01:18:20,458
which is why

3128
01:18:20,458 --> 01:18:23,083
you've got to have that, that,

3129
01:18:23,083 --> 01:18:24,208
that high conviction

3130
01:18:24,208 --> 01:18:25,083
underpinning

3131
01:18:25,083 --> 01:18:26,083
is the only thing

3132
01:18:26,083 --> 01:18:28,333
that will save you from yourself

3133
01:18:28,333 --> 01:18:29,958
when the demons come at night

3134
01:18:29,958 --> 01:18:31,333
and they will come

3135
01:18:31,333 --> 01:18:32,541
when you're in that kind

3136
01:18:32,541 --> 01:18:34,250
of environment and

3137
01:18:35,958 --> 01:18:36,333
all you

3138
01:18:36,333 --> 01:18:37,375
can do is just

3139
01:18:37,375 --> 01:18:39,458
like, just try and think

3140
01:18:39,458 --> 01:18:40,291
through what

3141
01:18:40,291 --> 01:18:42,291
that is going to feel like

3142
01:18:42,291 --> 01:18:44,333
and, and be ready for it

3143
01:18:44,333 --> 01:18:46,333
and have a plan for it. Right.

3144
01:18:46,333 --> 01:18:47,083
The plan is probably

3145
01:18:47,083 --> 01:18:49,250
just do nothing and continue to DCA.

3146
01:18:49,250 --> 01:18:51,166
But,

3147
01:18:51,166 --> 01:18:53,541
you,

3148
01:18:53,541 --> 01:18:55,250
you, you need to sort of like,

3149
01:18:55,250 --> 01:18:55,875
what's the word

3150
01:18:55,875 --> 01:18:57,541
you need to be a pre cog almost,

3151
01:18:57,541 --> 01:18:58,541
you know,

3152
01:18:58,541 --> 01:19:00,166
in, in this kind of regard

3153
01:19:00,166 --> 01:19:01,125
because it's

3154
01:19:01,125 --> 01:19:01,791
as I say,

3155
01:19:01,791 --> 01:19:03,750
everyone's it's easy to be it's

3156
01:19:03,750 --> 01:19:04,875
easy to be high conviction

3157
01:19:04,875 --> 01:19:06,000
and bullish in a bull market.

3158
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:06,708
And it just

3159
01:19:06,708 --> 01:19:07,250
every and

3160
01:19:07,250 --> 01:19:10,250
I can tell you again in my game

3161
01:19:10,458 --> 01:19:12,791
every single

3162
01:19:12,791 --> 01:19:14,458
finance pro will go

3163
01:19:14,458 --> 01:19:16,791
oh I would love x, y and Z.

3164
01:19:16,791 --> 01:19:18,083
If that drop 20%

3165
01:19:18,083 --> 01:19:20,000
I'm going to back up the truck right

3166
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:21,625
next bear market.

3167
01:19:21,625 --> 01:19:22,083
You know, I'm

3168
01:19:22,083 --> 01:19:22,875
going to back up the truck.

3169
01:19:22,875 --> 01:19:24,375
No you're not bullshit.

3170
01:19:24,375 --> 01:19:26,416
You, no one ever does. Right?

3171
01:19:26,416 --> 01:19:28,125
Like very few,

3172
01:19:28,125 --> 01:19:30,500
very, very, very few people do.

3173
01:19:30,500 --> 01:19:33,250
And, because it's easy to say

3174
01:19:33,250 --> 01:19:34,916
at this point in time, is it

3175
01:19:34,916 --> 01:19:36,708
whatever we said, 180,000.

3176
01:19:36,708 --> 01:19:37,708
So if I said to you, hey,

3177
01:19:37,708 --> 01:19:38,333
if you had the chance

3178
01:19:38,333 --> 01:19:39,041
to buy it at 90

3179
01:19:39,041 --> 01:19:40,791
K, would you buy like hell yeah,

3180
01:19:40,791 --> 01:19:41,750
because it's 180.

3181
01:19:41,750 --> 01:19:42,916
So it's a discount like,

3182
01:19:42,916 --> 01:19:43,500
you bet

3183
01:19:43,500 --> 01:19:45,000
it has to drop in

3184
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:46,541
half at that point.

3185
01:19:46,541 --> 01:19:47,541
So you're looking at a chart

3186
01:19:47,541 --> 01:19:48,916
that's going south.

3187
01:19:48,916 --> 01:19:50,958
The screen is full of red.

3188
01:19:50,958 --> 01:19:53,208
Every part of your social media

3189
01:19:53,208 --> 01:19:54,083
feed is talking about

3190
01:19:54,083 --> 01:19:55,250
how it's the end of the world,

3191
01:19:55,250 --> 01:19:55,958
and Bitcoin's

3192
01:19:55,958 --> 01:19:56,750
all over and everything,

3193
01:19:56,750 --> 01:19:58,125
and you're just going to,

3194
01:19:58,125 --> 01:19:58,708
like,

3195
01:19:58,708 --> 01:19:59,833
quietly, calmly

3196
01:19:59,833 --> 01:20:01,708
stroll into that and buy it?

3197
01:20:01,708 --> 01:20:02,791
I don't think so.

3198
01:20:02,791 --> 01:20:03,583
Well,

3199
01:20:03,583 --> 01:20:04,875
hopefully you do,

3200
01:20:04,875 --> 01:20:06,666
but but then, then you start.

3201
01:20:06,666 --> 01:20:07,541
Then then the other

3202
01:20:07,541 --> 01:20:08,541
behavioral tricks.

3203
01:20:08,541 --> 01:20:09,333
Start playing with your

3204
01:20:09,333 --> 01:20:10,458
mind where you go, well.

3205
01:20:12,625 --> 01:20:13,250
I'll buy

3206
01:20:13,250 --> 01:20:14,333
once it stops falling,

3207
01:20:14,333 --> 01:20:15,083
as if you're going to know

3208
01:20:15,083 --> 01:20:16,125
in advance when the bought it.

3209
01:20:16,125 --> 01:20:17,041
Like no one reads a bell.

3210
01:20:17,041 --> 01:20:17,500
At the bottom

3211
01:20:17,500 --> 01:20:18,583
is the old saying right.

3212
01:20:18,583 --> 01:20:20,250
And it's not in the stock market.

3213
01:20:20,250 --> 01:20:21,875
Yeah. Oh, this is the bottom okay.

3214
01:20:21,875 --> 01:20:22,583
So I should buy now.

3215
01:20:22,583 --> 01:20:23,083
Like you're

3216
01:20:23,083 --> 01:20:23,750
never going to know

3217
01:20:23,750 --> 01:20:24,500
that the bottom is

3218
01:20:24,500 --> 01:20:26,333
only in, in hindsight

3219
01:20:26,333 --> 01:20:27,791
and no one ever picks the bottom

3220
01:20:27,791 --> 01:20:28,791
I picking bottoms

3221
01:20:28,791 --> 01:20:30,041
gives you smelly fingers

3222
01:20:30,041 --> 01:20:31,750
rather crass way of saying it.

3223
01:20:31,750 --> 01:20:33,125
And and it's it's

3224
01:20:33,125 --> 01:20:34,541
it's going to be true for bitcoin.

3225
01:20:34,541 --> 01:20:36,333
So just don't play any of that game.

3226
01:20:36,333 --> 01:20:37,208
Just like

3227
01:20:37,208 --> 01:20:38,333
I'm just going to continue

3228
01:20:38,333 --> 01:20:40,250
to, to average into it.

3229
01:20:40,250 --> 01:20:41,083
Importantly,

3230
01:20:41,083 --> 01:20:42,291
as much as I'm a believer

3231
01:20:42,291 --> 01:20:42,875
and passionate

3232
01:20:42,875 --> 01:20:43,791
about and I'm certainly

3233
01:20:43,791 --> 01:20:45,500
not buying any bitcoin with money

3234
01:20:45,500 --> 01:20:47,041
I'm likely to need in the near term

3235
01:20:47,041 --> 01:20:48,583
because there are bills to pay

3236
01:20:48,583 --> 01:20:49,541
and the rest of it.

3237
01:20:49,541 --> 01:20:50,875
So I and I say

3238
01:20:50,875 --> 01:20:51,625
the same about the share

3239
01:20:51,625 --> 01:20:52,250
market, I,

3240
01:20:52,250 --> 01:20:53,708
I need to account

3241
01:20:53,708 --> 01:20:55,458
for that volatility,

3242
01:20:55,458 --> 01:20:56,291
because it's just a,

3243
01:20:56,291 --> 01:20:57,750
just a fact of life.

3244
01:20:57,750 --> 01:21:00,500
But other than that, like you, you

3245
01:21:02,291 --> 01:21:03,250
you've

3246
01:21:03,250 --> 01:21:06,250
you've got I, I'm probably just,

3247
01:21:06,250 --> 01:21:07,291
babbling at this point,

3248
01:21:07,291 --> 01:21:08,291
but another,

3249
01:21:08,291 --> 01:21:09,916
another favorite saying of mine is

3250
01:21:09,916 --> 01:21:11,541
you can borrow an idea,

3251
01:21:11,541 --> 01:21:13,500
but you can't borrow the conviction.

3252
01:21:13,500 --> 01:21:15,333
And in a bull market,

3253
01:21:15,333 --> 01:21:16,041
when there's a couple

3254
01:21:16,041 --> 01:21:17,541
people on a podcast

3255
01:21:17,541 --> 01:21:19,250
who are obviously clearly passionate

3256
01:21:19,250 --> 01:21:21,166
and excited about this thing, it's

3257
01:21:21,166 --> 01:21:22,791
very easy to go, yeah,

3258
01:21:22,791 --> 01:21:23,750
I want some of that too.

3259
01:21:23,750 --> 01:21:24,791
Oh, wow. It's going.

3260
01:21:24,791 --> 01:21:26,125
Yes, yes,

3261
01:21:26,125 --> 01:21:27,291
Andrew said it's going to be worth

3262
01:21:27,291 --> 01:21:28,125
tens of millions

3263
01:21:28,125 --> 01:21:30,166
one day or whatever, you know.

3264
01:21:30,166 --> 01:21:31,125
By the way,

3265
01:21:31,125 --> 01:21:31,875
please don't buy it

3266
01:21:31,875 --> 01:21:32,958
just because of anything

3267
01:21:32,958 --> 01:21:34,958
I have said or anyone has said,

3268
01:21:34,958 --> 01:21:36,500
because it will be a very different

3269
01:21:36,500 --> 01:21:38,208
calculus when, not if,

3270
01:21:38,208 --> 01:21:39,291
but when the market

3271
01:21:39,291 --> 01:21:40,666
has a bit of a stumble.

3272
01:21:40,666 --> 01:21:41,625
And that's very different

3273
01:21:41,625 --> 01:21:42,500
at that point in time.

3274
01:21:42,500 --> 01:21:43,291
And the only thing

3275
01:21:43,291 --> 01:21:44,416
that will save you from yourself

3276
01:21:44,416 --> 01:21:46,125
is if you've got your own

3277
01:21:46,125 --> 01:21:47,583
deep seated conviction

3278
01:21:47,583 --> 01:21:48,375
that you have built

3279
01:21:48,375 --> 01:21:49,791
through your own

3280
01:21:49,791 --> 01:21:51,583
research, understanding,

3281
01:21:51,583 --> 01:21:53,250
thinking and contemplation.

3282
01:21:53,250 --> 01:21:54,916
And if you've got that,

3283
01:21:54,916 --> 01:21:56,541
I wouldn't say you're bulletproof,

3284
01:21:56,541 --> 01:21:57,208
but you're going to be

3285
01:21:57,208 --> 01:21:58,291
far more resilient

3286
01:21:58,291 --> 01:21:59,416
than you would otherwise be.

3287
01:22:00,791 --> 01:22:03,750
Sorry for the long run.

3288
01:22:03,750 --> 01:22:05,541
Now, that's a very, very important

3289
01:22:05,541 --> 01:22:06,375
topic to make.

3290
01:22:06,375 --> 01:22:08,625
And I do sometimes get people

3291
01:22:08,625 --> 01:22:10,666
asking me for like financial advice.

3292
01:22:10,666 --> 01:22:11,375
And I'm like, I'm

3293
01:22:11,375 --> 01:22:13,125
not want to give financial advice.

3294
01:22:13,125 --> 01:22:14,875
All I will say is

3295
01:22:14,875 --> 01:22:15,916
we are potentially

3296
01:22:15,916 --> 01:22:17,958
nearing the top of the market

3297
01:22:17,958 --> 01:22:20,000
and I won't always be responsible

3298
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:20,375
in, in,

3299
01:22:20,375 --> 01:22:21,166
you know, saying

3300
01:22:21,166 --> 01:22:22,083
these things to people

3301
01:22:22,083 --> 01:22:23,958
because I have had friends

3302
01:22:23,958 --> 01:22:25,333
who have bought,

3303
01:22:25,333 --> 01:22:26,083
you know, the,

3304
01:22:26,083 --> 01:22:27,666
the last cycles top

3305
01:22:27,666 --> 01:22:30,041
and then they sit all the way down

3306
01:22:30,041 --> 01:22:30,833
and just

3307
01:22:30,833 --> 01:22:32,291
it can be very disheartening,

3308
01:22:32,291 --> 01:22:33,291
especially if you're buying

3309
01:22:33,291 --> 01:22:34,791
like a lump sum of your,

3310
01:22:34,791 --> 01:22:35,916
you know, life savings

3311
01:22:35,916 --> 01:22:37,500
and putting into Bitcoin.

3312
01:22:37,500 --> 01:22:38,791
But this particular person

3313
01:22:38,791 --> 01:22:40,291
that I'm thinking of

3314
01:22:40,291 --> 01:22:41,958
did a lot of study in

3315
01:22:41,958 --> 01:22:42,583
and was

3316
01:22:42,583 --> 01:22:44,541
had very high conviction in Bitcoin.

3317
01:22:44,541 --> 01:22:46,791
So she she kind of laughs it off.

3318
01:22:46,791 --> 01:22:48,000
And and you know

3319
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:48,875
obviously now she's.

3320
01:22:48,875 --> 01:22:50,958
She's how she feel. Inside the time.

3321
01:22:50,958 --> 01:22:51,291
Yeah.

3322
01:22:51,291 --> 01:22:52,791
Yeah she's she's held

3323
01:22:52,791 --> 01:22:53,916
the entire time I mean she's

3324
01:22:53,916 --> 01:22:54,833
you know

3325
01:22:54,833 --> 01:22:56,291
definitely back up

3326
01:22:56,291 --> 01:22:58,250
and and then some.

3327
01:22:58,250 --> 01:22:59,416
But it can be

3328
01:22:59,416 --> 01:23:00,875
a very disheartening,

3329
01:23:00,875 --> 01:23:01,791
way to enter for

3330
01:23:01,791 --> 01:23:03,708
someone who's only, like,

3331
01:23:03,708 --> 01:23:05,625
putting their feet in.

3332
01:23:05,625 --> 01:23:06,208
So that's why

3333
01:23:06,208 --> 01:23:09,375
I also like a huge advocate of, BCA,

3334
01:23:09,375 --> 01:23:11,458
but in terms of managing emotions,

3335
01:23:12,875 --> 01:23:13,541
a couple of

3336
01:23:13,541 --> 01:23:14,166
things that work

3337
01:23:14,166 --> 01:23:17,166
for me is zooming out,

3338
01:23:17,416 --> 01:23:19,166
like you said as well,

3339
01:23:19,166 --> 01:23:20,500
making sure you have enough

3340
01:23:20,500 --> 01:23:22,625
operational money space

3341
01:23:22,625 --> 01:23:23,958
so that you don't need to panic

3342
01:23:23,958 --> 01:23:25,041
sell it

3343
01:23:25,041 --> 01:23:27,000
in case that the the market dips.

3344
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:28,083
You don't want to be selling

3345
01:23:28,083 --> 01:23:30,458
when it's at the bottom.

3346
01:23:30,458 --> 01:23:31,125
To always make sure

3347
01:23:31,125 --> 01:23:32,208
you have enough money

3348
01:23:32,208 --> 01:23:35,208
for everyday life.

3349
01:23:35,375 --> 01:23:36,625
What other words of wisdom?

3350
01:23:36,625 --> 01:23:38,083
Oh, and also speak to Bitcoin.

3351
01:23:38,083 --> 01:23:38,625
I like for me

3352
01:23:38,625 --> 01:23:40,458
it helps actually reaching out

3353
01:23:40,458 --> 01:23:42,958
to like a toxic org who's been,

3354
01:23:42,958 --> 01:23:44,000
you know,

3355
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:46,208
in like 90% drawbacks and be like

3356
01:23:46,208 --> 01:23:47,333
what did you do?

3357
01:23:47,333 --> 01:23:47,916
And the like,

3358
01:23:47,916 --> 01:23:50,000
oh you know with 30% down

3359
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:52,541
you're worried oh less.

3360
01:23:52,541 --> 01:23:53,875
You're cutting your books

3361
01:23:53,875 --> 01:23:55,875
less, you're cutting sucks.

3362
01:23:55,875 --> 01:23:56,291
Yeah.

3363
01:23:56,291 --> 01:23:56,958
So one of the,

3364
01:23:56,958 --> 01:23:57,958
one of the things I do is

3365
01:23:57,958 --> 01:23:59,666
I, I'll open up

3366
01:23:59,666 --> 01:24:00,958
a blockchain explorer.

3367
01:24:00,958 --> 01:24:02,416
So rather than looking at a chart,

3368
01:24:02,416 --> 01:24:03,583
I'll look at one of those,

3369
01:24:03,583 --> 01:24:03,958
you know, the,

3370
01:24:03,958 --> 01:24:05,083
you know, the Bitcoin visuals

3371
01:24:05,083 --> 01:24:06,333
and stuff. You just see them.

3372
01:24:06,333 --> 01:24:07,708
You just see the transactions

3373
01:24:07,708 --> 01:24:08,583
coming through

3374
01:24:08,583 --> 01:24:09,708
and what's in the mempool.

3375
01:24:09,708 --> 01:24:10,458
And it just

3376
01:24:10,458 --> 01:24:13,250
it divorces you from the price

3377
01:24:13,250 --> 01:24:14,333
and you just get the

3378
01:24:14,333 --> 01:24:17,666
Zen of the protocol doing its thing.

3379
01:24:17,666 --> 01:24:18,541
And it's like,

3380
01:24:18,541 --> 01:24:19,875
oh yeah, nothing's not,

3381
01:24:19,875 --> 01:24:20,625
nothing's changed.

3382
01:24:20,625 --> 01:24:22,958
So I guess I don't. Talk next block.

3383
01:24:22,958 --> 01:24:23,500
You know?

3384
01:24:23,500 --> 01:24:25,083
And now if I turned on, it's like,

3385
01:24:25,083 --> 01:24:26,166
oh, there's a critical error

3386
01:24:26,166 --> 01:24:26,833
or the blocks are

3387
01:24:26,833 --> 01:24:27,541
empty or something, I,

3388
01:24:28,791 --> 01:24:29,666
I would probably panic.

3389
01:24:29,666 --> 01:24:30,916
So at that point in time.

3390
01:24:30,916 --> 01:24:33,916
Right, if that ever happens,

3391
01:24:34,708 --> 01:24:35,500
but that's the.

3392
01:24:35,500 --> 01:24:37,708
Yeah, that it's a nice grounding.

3393
01:24:37,708 --> 01:24:40,708
Just to remind yourself about what,

3394
01:24:40,791 --> 01:24:42,166
what is the underpinning

3395
01:24:42,166 --> 01:24:42,958
of value here.

3396
01:24:42,958 --> 01:24:43,666
And it really just

3397
01:24:43,666 --> 01:24:44,916
is the promise of any open

3398
01:24:44,916 --> 01:24:46,458
permissionless blah blah blah that,

3399
01:24:46,458 --> 01:24:47,458
you know, all of that kind of stuff.

3400
01:24:47,458 --> 01:24:48,833
And as long as that is true,

3401
01:24:48,833 --> 01:24:50,416
the price can move around

3402
01:24:50,416 --> 01:24:53,416
and I can be pretty zen about it.

3403
01:24:53,666 --> 01:24:55,375
Yeah, yeah, I,

3404
01:24:55,375 --> 01:24:56,500
I'm dying to know,

3405
01:24:56,500 --> 01:24:58,333
is your wife a bitcoin

3406
01:24:58,333 --> 01:24:59,208
or is she still like.

3407
01:24:59,208 --> 01:25:01,125
Andrew, what are you doing?

3408
01:25:01,125 --> 01:25:02,291
Why are you putting your money

3409
01:25:02,291 --> 01:25:04,875
in this crazy old thing?

3410
01:25:04,875 --> 01:25:07,791
She definitely is.

3411
01:25:07,791 --> 01:25:08,291
Yeah.

3412
01:25:08,291 --> 01:25:11,291
I'm so lucky because I,

3413
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:13,750
And she reminds me rightly of this.

3414
01:25:13,750 --> 01:25:15,958
Is this, like, you know, what am I.

3415
01:25:15,958 --> 01:25:17,750
I wouldn't have been this,

3416
01:25:17,750 --> 01:25:18,708
accepting and her.

3417
01:25:18,708 --> 01:25:20,166
And especially when it was early,

3418
01:25:20,166 --> 01:25:21,375
when I was first starting

3419
01:25:21,375 --> 01:25:22,833
to like the mind virus,

3420
01:25:22,833 --> 01:25:24,041
it just got into the head

3421
01:25:24,041 --> 01:25:25,250
and was doing its thing.

3422
01:25:25,250 --> 01:25:28,041
She was like, what are you on about?

3423
01:25:28,041 --> 01:25:29,750
I, you know, I'd have a podcast

3424
01:25:29,750 --> 01:25:30,916
playing in the car

3425
01:25:30,916 --> 01:25:33,666
or just on my phone and in bed and,

3426
01:25:33,666 --> 01:25:35,333
you know, just like, what?

3427
01:25:35,333 --> 01:25:37,916
What is that? That sounds crazy.

3428
01:25:37,916 --> 01:25:38,958
But like, to her

3429
01:25:38,958 --> 01:25:41,041
eternal credit, she's,

3430
01:25:41,041 --> 01:25:41,458
she's actually

3431
01:25:41,458 --> 01:25:42,541
a scientist by training.

3432
01:25:42,541 --> 01:25:44,750
And so she, she was sort of like,

3433
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:46,625
she would throw

3434
01:25:46,625 --> 01:25:48,041
out all the usual challenges

3435
01:25:48,041 --> 01:25:48,541
because they're all

3436
01:25:48,541 --> 01:25:49,541
sensible challenges

3437
01:25:49,541 --> 01:25:50,500
the first time, you know?

3438
01:25:50,500 --> 01:25:51,708
And I was like, yeah,

3439
01:25:51,708 --> 01:25:52,916
I thought that too, but

3440
01:25:52,916 --> 01:25:53,958
and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

3441
01:25:53,958 --> 01:25:55,541
Oh, I know, I tend to something.

3442
01:25:55,541 --> 01:25:56,833
And she just,

3443
01:25:56,833 --> 01:25:58,750
she, she just accepted it

3444
01:25:58,750 --> 01:26:00,416
and and no,

3445
01:26:00,416 --> 01:26:01,625
not because

3446
01:26:01,625 --> 01:26:02,833
I told her to accept it

3447
01:26:02,833 --> 01:26:04,250
and don't tell her to do anything.

3448
01:26:04,250 --> 01:26:05,333
Frankly.

3449
01:26:05,333 --> 01:26:06,958
She accepted it because she formed

3450
01:26:06,958 --> 01:26:09,166
that that opinion through her own

3451
01:26:09,166 --> 01:26:10,916
independent thinking

3452
01:26:10,916 --> 01:26:11,958
and just by osmosis

3453
01:26:11,958 --> 01:26:12,125
of it,

3454
01:26:12,125 --> 01:26:13,166
constantly playing

3455
01:26:13,166 --> 01:26:14,833
in the background of her house,

3456
01:26:14,833 --> 01:26:16,333
that, that she,

3457
01:26:16,333 --> 01:26:16,791
that,

3458
01:26:16,791 --> 01:26:17,833
that she could see

3459
01:26:17,833 --> 01:26:19,541
the rationale of it and it just.

3460
01:26:19,541 --> 01:26:20,708
Yeah, it did it

3461
01:26:20,708 --> 01:26:23,208
did help that over time we

3462
01:26:23,208 --> 01:26:24,916
it has been life changing

3463
01:26:24,916 --> 01:26:27,250
for like life changing for us

3464
01:26:27,250 --> 01:26:28,458
and in, in such

3465
01:26:28,458 --> 01:26:29,541
a, in such a million

3466
01:26:29,541 --> 01:26:31,125
different sort of ways

3467
01:26:31,125 --> 01:26:31,958
that it's hard.

3468
01:26:31,958 --> 01:26:33,208
It's at a point now

3469
01:26:33,208 --> 01:26:34,875
it's sort of like

3470
01:26:34,875 --> 01:26:36,125
did you buy some bitcoin yet,

3471
01:26:36,125 --> 01:26:37,791
you know like, oh, super cancer.

3472
01:26:37,791 --> 01:26:38,625
Did you buy some bitcoin.

3473
01:26:38,625 --> 01:26:40,791
Like she's like she's 100% on board

3474
01:26:40,791 --> 01:26:42,291
and I never could have.

3475
01:26:42,291 --> 01:26:42,958
Yeah I mean I'm

3476
01:26:42,958 --> 01:26:43,875
sure I could have convinced

3477
01:26:43,875 --> 01:26:45,208
the let's take a small quote

3478
01:26:45,208 --> 01:26:47,208
unquote position in it you know.

3479
01:26:47,208 --> 01:26:50,541
But but to be as as significantly

3480
01:26:51,125 --> 01:26:52,750
weighted as we are in it,

3481
01:26:52,750 --> 01:26:54,083
that could only ever happen

3482
01:26:54,083 --> 01:26:55,041
if it was.

3483
01:26:55,041 --> 01:26:55,333
Yeah.

3484
01:26:55,333 --> 01:26:56,416
One team, one dream.

3485
01:26:56,416 --> 01:26:59,083
And teamwork makes the dream. What?

3486
01:26:59,083 --> 01:26:59,666
Yeah.

3487
01:26:59,666 --> 01:27:01,166
Absolutely. Absolutely.

3488
01:27:01,166 --> 01:27:02,833
I love those stories of partners.

3489
01:27:02,833 --> 01:27:05,458
Like coming around off the

3490
01:27:05,458 --> 01:27:06,583
beat 100 K

3491
01:27:06,583 --> 01:27:08,041
because it was like your bitcoin.

3492
01:27:08,041 --> 01:27:10,750
And then it goes over 100 K.

3493
01:27:10,750 --> 01:27:13,208
Oh Bitcoin. I'm like okay.

3494
01:27:13,208 --> 01:27:14,833
I mean she's at the point

3495
01:27:14,833 --> 01:27:16,708
where where she was like

3496
01:27:17,750 --> 01:27:18,500
are you listening to

3497
01:27:18,500 --> 01:27:19,666
another Bitcoin podcast.

3498
01:27:19,666 --> 01:27:20,000
Yeah.

3499
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:21,500
She's like oh my god.

3500
01:27:21,500 --> 01:27:22,083
Like

3501
01:27:22,083 --> 01:27:24,291
is there anything left to learn.

3502
01:27:24,291 --> 01:27:26,250
Well actually yeah.

3503
01:27:26,250 --> 01:27:27,041
And and it's

3504
01:27:27,041 --> 01:27:28,416
just really interesting.

3505
01:27:28,416 --> 01:27:29,958
So she's she's on board

3506
01:27:29,958 --> 01:27:32,125
but she's not as myopically obsessed

3507
01:27:32,125 --> 01:27:34,125
with it as I am.

3508
01:27:34,125 --> 01:27:34,875
She's interested in

3509
01:27:34,875 --> 01:27:36,125
far more important things

3510
01:27:36,125 --> 01:27:36,916
in a lot of ways.

3511
01:27:36,916 --> 01:27:39,916
But yeah, she's definitely on board.

3512
01:27:39,916 --> 01:27:40,458
Yeah.

3513
01:27:40,458 --> 01:27:41,833
And I love is all learning

3514
01:27:41,833 --> 01:27:42,250
from other

3515
01:27:42,250 --> 01:27:42,916
Bitcoin is like

3516
01:27:42,916 --> 01:27:44,208
what it is about them

3517
01:27:44,208 --> 01:27:46,250
that interest them the most.

3518
01:27:46,250 --> 01:27:48,041
And for some people it's to text.

3519
01:27:48,041 --> 01:27:49,458
For some people it's the economics.

3520
01:27:49,458 --> 01:27:50,208
For some people it's

3521
01:27:50,208 --> 01:27:52,125
entirely something else.

3522
01:27:52,125 --> 01:27:54,250
And one of the big surprises

3523
01:27:54,250 --> 01:27:55,666
for me was learning

3524
01:27:55,666 --> 01:27:56,833
about Austrian economics.

3525
01:27:56,833 --> 01:27:57,500
And I'm just like,

3526
01:27:57,500 --> 01:27:58,916
this was my first exposure

3527
01:27:58,916 --> 01:28:00,000
to to economics.

3528
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:01,166
And I spoke to a woman

3529
01:28:01,166 --> 01:28:02,833
in, in Palm Cove,

3530
01:28:02,833 --> 01:28:04,625
like a few weeks ago now.

3531
01:28:04,625 --> 01:28:06,291
And she was like, you're so lucky.

3532
01:28:06,291 --> 01:28:07,333
You're so lucky you.

3533
01:28:07,333 --> 01:28:09,958
You skipped all the other BS

3534
01:28:09,958 --> 01:28:11,250
and then, you know, straight

3535
01:28:11,250 --> 01:28:13,208
from like, the Austrian school

3536
01:28:13,208 --> 01:28:14,458
and yeah, I just

3537
01:28:14,458 --> 01:28:15,833
I never thought I would find

3538
01:28:15,833 --> 01:28:17,750
this so interesting.

3539
01:28:18,750 --> 01:28:21,000
I love listening to podcasts.

3540
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:23,250
I actually want to invite some,

3541
01:28:23,250 --> 01:28:24,625
speakers as well,

3542
01:28:24,625 --> 01:28:26,333
kind of bring this,

3543
01:28:26,333 --> 01:28:27,375
to the mainstream

3544
01:28:27,375 --> 01:28:28,916
because unfortunately,

3545
01:28:28,916 --> 01:28:30,166
there's not many universities

3546
01:28:30,166 --> 01:28:31,000
that teach it in.

3547
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:32,541
Some do some touch or not,

3548
01:28:32,541 --> 01:28:33,583
because you might have

3549
01:28:33,583 --> 01:28:35,833
like a professor that's very,

3550
01:28:35,833 --> 01:28:38,833
curious and does a lot of like

3551
01:28:39,041 --> 01:28:42,041
side education.

3552
01:28:42,750 --> 01:28:45,000
But yeah, it's, it's

3553
01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:48,000
I tend to look at it as like,

3554
01:28:48,875 --> 01:28:49,208
a look.

3555
01:28:49,208 --> 01:28:52,208
It is very elegant, neat and clear

3556
01:28:52,208 --> 01:28:55,208
and logical.

3557
01:28:55,333 --> 01:28:56,750
Yeah, yeah.

3558
01:28:56,750 --> 01:28:57,541
There's not a lot of,

3559
01:28:57,541 --> 01:28:59,125
like, manipulation behind it,

3560
01:28:59,125 --> 01:29:00,666
so that's what I like about it.

3561
01:29:00,666 --> 01:29:02,541
Zero manipulation really

3562
01:29:02,541 --> 01:29:04,166
isn't the intention protocol.

3563
01:29:04,166 --> 01:29:04,958
So yeah, that's that's

3564
01:29:04,958 --> 01:29:07,041
what makes it so,

3565
01:29:07,041 --> 01:29:08,541
so fascinating.

3566
01:29:08,541 --> 01:29:09,708
So the Austrian economics is,

3567
01:29:09,708 --> 01:29:10,458
was an interesting

3568
01:29:10,458 --> 01:29:13,458
one for me too, because

3569
01:29:13,500 --> 01:29:16,875
it is, it was and is fringe.

3570
01:29:17,541 --> 01:29:18,750
And when

3571
01:29:18,750 --> 01:29:20,500
as a general heuristic,

3572
01:29:20,500 --> 01:29:21,750
if something is fringe,

3573
01:29:21,750 --> 01:29:23,000
it's fringe for a good reason.

3574
01:29:24,166 --> 01:29:25,458
Flat earthers

3575
01:29:25,458 --> 01:29:28,458
are a fringe group.

3576
01:29:28,458 --> 01:29:31,458
And you'd go, yeah,

3577
01:29:31,666 --> 01:29:34,125
but that's because it's bullshit,

3578
01:29:34,125 --> 01:29:35,125
right?

3579
01:29:35,125 --> 01:29:36,333
And so most,

3580
01:29:36,333 --> 01:29:39,250
most things that are fringe

3581
01:29:39,250 --> 01:29:41,166
are fringe for very good reason,

3582
01:29:41,166 --> 01:29:42,916
because they're crazy or something

3583
01:29:42,916 --> 01:29:44,375
or close to so.

3584
01:29:44,375 --> 01:29:45,500
So when you,

3585
01:29:45,500 --> 01:29:46,791
when you come across

3586
01:29:46,791 --> 01:29:47,833
Austrian economics

3587
01:29:47,833 --> 01:29:49,250
and you go, it's fringe,

3588
01:29:49,250 --> 01:29:51,708
it's a very reasonable assumption

3589
01:29:51,708 --> 01:29:53,500
just to go, well,

3590
01:29:53,500 --> 01:29:55,458
if it's not taught at university,

3591
01:29:55,458 --> 01:29:57,708
no university teaches it.

3592
01:29:57,708 --> 01:29:59,541
None of the major,

3593
01:29:59,541 --> 01:30:02,541
economists, preach it.

3594
01:30:03,500 --> 01:30:05,416
It's got to be crazy because,

3595
01:30:05,416 --> 01:30:08,208
you know, how could something

3596
01:30:08,208 --> 01:30:11,041
that had any modicum of rationality

3597
01:30:11,041 --> 01:30:12,291
and sense and reason to it

3598
01:30:12,291 --> 01:30:15,291
be so sidelined and it's like, yeah,

3599
01:30:15,291 --> 01:30:16,666
I totally get that view.

3600
01:30:16,666 --> 01:30:17,208
And that's why

3601
01:30:17,208 --> 01:30:18,041
I dismissed

3602
01:30:18,041 --> 01:30:19,583
Austrian economics for years

3603
01:30:19,583 --> 01:30:21,041
without ever looking at it,

3604
01:30:21,041 --> 01:30:22,125
without ever looking at it,

3605
01:30:22,125 --> 01:30:23,666
just because it's like it's fringe.

3606
01:30:23,666 --> 01:30:25,125
I know what's what's it about?

3607
01:30:25,125 --> 01:30:27,583
Something about this and that.

3608
01:30:27,583 --> 01:30:28,416
It's crazy.

3609
01:30:28,416 --> 01:30:29,333
What are we.

3610
01:30:29,333 --> 01:30:30,791
If we don't have inflation,

3611
01:30:30,791 --> 01:30:32,041
no one would spend your investing.

3612
01:30:32,041 --> 01:30:33,500
I guess that makes sense.

3613
01:30:33,500 --> 01:30:34,875
Anyway, back to it. Right?

3614
01:30:34,875 --> 01:30:36,916
And you never think about it,

3615
01:30:36,916 --> 01:30:38,375
and then you like, as you

3616
01:30:38,375 --> 01:30:39,916
as you start exploring.

3617
01:30:39,916 --> 01:30:40,458
Are you going?

3618
01:30:41,416 --> 01:30:43,583
It makes so much perfect sense.

3619
01:30:43,583 --> 01:30:44,958
And the other day I thought,

3620
01:30:44,958 --> 01:30:46,291
because it's a it's

3621
01:30:46,291 --> 01:30:48,000
something I love to sort of

3622
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:48,583
I was going to say

3623
01:30:48,583 --> 01:30:49,916
debate my friends with

3624
01:30:49,916 --> 01:30:51,083
call it what it is, argue

3625
01:30:51,083 --> 01:30:52,958
with my friends about.

3626
01:30:52,958 --> 01:30:55,500
And I thought, isn't it interesting?

3627
01:30:55,500 --> 01:30:55,750
Right.

3628
01:30:55,750 --> 01:30:57,958
Because it feels as

3629
01:30:57,958 --> 01:30:59,958
though is a Bitcoin.

3630
01:30:59,958 --> 01:31:01,958
The burden of proof is on you

3631
01:31:01,958 --> 01:31:03,000
to make the case

3632
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:03,791
where you could

3633
01:31:03,791 --> 01:31:04,416
equally say,

3634
01:31:04,416 --> 01:31:06,500
no, the burden of proof is on you to

3635
01:31:06,500 --> 01:31:07,833
to say it's not true.

3636
01:31:07,833 --> 01:31:08,666
Like, well,

3637
01:31:08,666 --> 01:31:10,041
or at least we,

3638
01:31:10,041 --> 01:31:11,833
we each have a burden of proof

3639
01:31:11,833 --> 01:31:13,791
to sort of present our case.

3640
01:31:13,791 --> 01:31:14,625
But when it does it,

3641
01:31:14,625 --> 01:31:16,125
when it came to Austrian economics,

3642
01:31:16,125 --> 01:31:16,708
I kind of thought,

3643
01:31:16,708 --> 01:31:17,916
well, economics is,

3644
01:31:17,916 --> 01:31:18,958
you know, there's lots of journals

3645
01:31:18,958 --> 01:31:20,083
and scientific articles

3646
01:31:20,083 --> 01:31:21,166
and people research

3647
01:31:21,166 --> 01:31:22,500
at this university

3648
01:31:22,500 --> 01:31:23,541
departments full of this.

3649
01:31:23,541 --> 01:31:24,250
Let's have a look

3650
01:31:24,250 --> 01:31:26,666
for some good empirical evidence

3651
01:31:26,666 --> 01:31:27,291
that supports

3652
01:31:27,291 --> 01:31:28,291
the Keynesian worldview

3653
01:31:28,291 --> 01:31:29,833
and the effectiveness of it.

3654
01:31:29,833 --> 01:31:31,208
And you start looking through it

3655
01:31:31,208 --> 01:31:32,666
and you go, actually,

3656
01:31:32,666 --> 01:31:33,625
this is the

3657
01:31:33,625 --> 01:31:35,833
the the research on

3658
01:31:35,833 --> 01:31:38,000
it is extraordinarily thin.

3659
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:39,500
And what is there is very,

3660
01:31:39,500 --> 01:31:41,125
very inconclusive,

3661
01:31:41,125 --> 01:31:42,958
which kind of surprised me.

3662
01:31:42,958 --> 01:31:44,333
I think it doesn't really now

3663
01:31:44,333 --> 01:31:45,166
that I've thought about it

3664
01:31:45,166 --> 01:31:45,875
for half a second,

3665
01:31:45,875 --> 01:31:47,750
but at the time it was sort of like

3666
01:31:47,750 --> 01:31:49,500
I just expected there to be

3667
01:31:49,500 --> 01:31:51,375
this big body of evidence

3668
01:31:51,375 --> 01:31:52,500
that because

3669
01:31:52,500 --> 01:31:54,291
usually reality is a bit more,

3670
01:31:54,291 --> 01:31:55,250
it's not so binary,

3671
01:31:55,250 --> 01:31:55,541
you know,

3672
01:31:55,541 --> 01:31:56,666
it's like everything

3673
01:31:56,666 --> 01:31:57,875
the Keynesians say is wrong

3674
01:31:57,875 --> 01:31:58,333
and everything

3675
01:31:58,333 --> 01:31:59,500
that the Austrians say is correct.

3676
01:31:59,500 --> 01:32:00,291
No, it's

3677
01:32:00,291 --> 01:32:02,750
life's more subtle and contextual

3678
01:32:02,750 --> 01:32:04,166
and complex than that.

3679
01:32:04,166 --> 01:32:05,083
So I thought that

3680
01:32:05,083 --> 01:32:06,375
there would be some,

3681
01:32:06,375 --> 01:32:07,041
yeah, some

3682
01:32:07,041 --> 01:32:10,208
a bit of heft behind the philosophy.

3683
01:32:10,791 --> 01:32:12,666
And I couldn't really find anything.

3684
01:32:12,666 --> 01:32:13,458
And then I even got

3685
01:32:13,458 --> 01:32:15,458
onto the AI engines, and I know.

3686
01:32:15,458 --> 01:32:15,625
Right.

3687
01:32:15,625 --> 01:32:16,791
They'll, they'll be able to search.

3688
01:32:16,791 --> 01:32:17,416
I was like,

3689
01:32:17,416 --> 01:32:18,250
can you list for me

3690
01:32:18,250 --> 01:32:19,416
all the empirical evidence

3691
01:32:19,416 --> 01:32:21,166
that they give supporting

3692
01:32:21,166 --> 01:32:22,458
evidence to this worldview is

3693
01:32:23,500 --> 01:32:25,250
even coming back going,

3694
01:32:25,250 --> 01:32:27,375
well, I can't really find any.

3695
01:32:27,375 --> 01:32:28,125
Right.

3696
01:32:28,125 --> 01:32:30,041
And so it's it's sort of

3697
01:32:30,041 --> 01:32:31,083
I think that's something else

3698
01:32:31,083 --> 01:32:34,083
I would sort of say to people is, is

3699
01:32:34,250 --> 01:32:35,666
yeah, just because it's fringe

3700
01:32:35,666 --> 01:32:37,208
don't order

3701
01:32:37,208 --> 01:32:38,291
you to go to your mistake,

3702
01:32:38,291 --> 01:32:40,416
but don't automatically assume that.

3703
01:32:40,416 --> 01:32:42,125
Therefore it must be crazy.

3704
01:32:42,125 --> 01:32:43,541
And in fact, there's no

3705
01:32:43,541 --> 01:32:45,250
good sort of real world evidence

3706
01:32:45,250 --> 01:32:46,541
to suggest this kind of stuff

3707
01:32:46,541 --> 01:32:47,541
is actually reasonable

3708
01:32:47,541 --> 01:32:48,958
and that it works.

3709
01:32:48,958 --> 01:32:50,125
And there's so many things

3710
01:32:50,125 --> 01:32:51,041
like that, particularly

3711
01:32:51,041 --> 01:32:51,958
in the field of modern

3712
01:32:51,958 --> 01:32:52,750
economics

3713
01:32:52,750 --> 01:32:55,666
and contemporary economics, where

3714
01:32:55,666 --> 01:32:56,208
and I know it

3715
01:32:56,208 --> 01:32:57,125
because I work in this,

3716
01:32:57,125 --> 01:32:58,541
in this field, in this world,

3717
01:32:58,541 --> 01:32:59,916
and people make assertions

3718
01:32:59,916 --> 01:33:02,208
and they say it is in fact

3719
01:33:02,208 --> 01:33:03,791
and I always nodded along with it.

3720
01:33:03,791 --> 01:33:05,208
And then you sort of say, well,

3721
01:33:05,208 --> 01:33:06,458
what's the evidence for that?

3722
01:33:06,458 --> 01:33:07,583
And then they look at you as in,

3723
01:33:07,583 --> 01:33:08,166
what do you mean?

3724
01:33:08,166 --> 01:33:09,708
It's self-evidently true.

3725
01:33:09,708 --> 01:33:10,416
The classic one

3726
01:33:10,416 --> 01:33:11,958
being that inflation is good.

3727
01:33:11,958 --> 01:33:13,291
If we didn't have inflation,

3728
01:33:13,291 --> 01:33:14,375
the world would collapse

3729
01:33:14,375 --> 01:33:15,916
and the economy would be in ruins.

3730
01:33:15,916 --> 01:33:17,791
And you go, okay.

3731
01:33:17,791 --> 01:33:18,458
And it just

3732
01:33:18,458 --> 01:33:20,833
it clearly doesn't stand to reason.

3733
01:33:22,791 --> 01:33:23,458
Oh, God, it's a

3734
01:33:23,458 --> 01:33:24,125
thousand different things.

3735
01:33:24,125 --> 01:33:24,958
So you could, you could

3736
01:33:24,958 --> 01:33:27,958
kind of say is to is to disprove it.

3737
01:33:29,166 --> 01:33:31,250
And yet here we are, here we are.

3738
01:33:31,250 --> 01:33:31,541
And then

3739
01:33:31,541 --> 01:33:32,416
and then the only thing

3740
01:33:32,416 --> 01:33:33,041
that the only way

3741
01:33:33,041 --> 01:33:34,333
you sort of square that circle, it's

3742
01:33:34,333 --> 01:33:34,666
not many

3743
01:33:34,666 --> 01:33:36,041
domains of life are like that.

3744
01:33:36,041 --> 01:33:37,000
Generally speaking,

3745
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:40,000
the truth tends to out over time

3746
01:33:40,083 --> 01:33:41,541
and the simple and

3747
01:33:41,541 --> 01:33:43,541
and maybe somewhat cynical answer to

3748
01:33:43,541 --> 01:33:44,708
it is that,

3749
01:33:44,708 --> 01:33:45,583
you know, never

3750
01:33:45,583 --> 01:33:46,583
you can't ever expect

3751
01:33:46,583 --> 01:33:47,666
someone to change their mind

3752
01:33:47,666 --> 01:33:48,416
when their livelihood

3753
01:33:48,416 --> 01:33:49,666
depends on on them

3754
01:33:49,666 --> 01:33:51,125
not changing their mind.

3755
01:33:51,125 --> 01:33:52,583
And when you feel when you see

3756
01:33:52,583 --> 01:33:53,083
where the sudden

3757
01:33:53,083 --> 01:33:54,041
at the center of power

3758
01:33:54,041 --> 01:33:55,125
and influence are.

3759
01:33:55,125 --> 01:33:55,666
And that just

3760
01:33:55,666 --> 01:33:56,958
my life is good

3761
01:33:56,958 --> 01:33:58,333
for the billionaires, right?

3762
01:33:58,333 --> 01:33:59,791
Life is really good.

3763
01:33:59,791 --> 01:34:01,791
And so that's the reason

3764
01:34:01,791 --> 01:34:03,458
why I ask you this fringe,

3765
01:34:03,458 --> 01:34:04,708
because we're on those

3766
01:34:04,708 --> 01:34:05,625
that are on the good wicket.

3767
01:34:05,625 --> 01:34:06,458
We're on a good wicket

3768
01:34:06,458 --> 01:34:07,250
here like late.

3769
01:34:07,250 --> 01:34:08,291
You know,

3770
01:34:08,291 --> 01:34:10,000
don't mention the war kind of thing.

3771
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:11,416
Like this is really good.

3772
01:34:11,416 --> 01:34:12,333
And we will do everything

3773
01:34:12,333 --> 01:34:13,250
we can to put up,

3774
01:34:15,375 --> 01:34:16,500
quote unquote evidence that

3775
01:34:16,500 --> 01:34:18,291
we can do support that in fact,

3776
01:34:18,291 --> 01:34:20,083
not just try and dismiss it

3777
01:34:20,083 --> 01:34:22,458
with, with,

3778
01:34:22,458 --> 01:34:23,791
with data and evidence

3779
01:34:23,791 --> 01:34:24,500
because they've tried

3780
01:34:24,500 --> 01:34:25,250
doesn't really work.

3781
01:34:25,250 --> 01:34:25,750
We just sort of

3782
01:34:25,750 --> 01:34:27,541
try and laugh and make into.

3783
01:34:27,541 --> 01:34:27,916
Right,

3784
01:34:27,916 --> 01:34:30,750
and make fun of the Austrians and,

3785
01:34:30,750 --> 01:34:32,000
and paint them all as,

3786
01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:33,541
as crazy hardcore

3787
01:34:33,541 --> 01:34:35,083
survivalist libertarians

3788
01:34:35,083 --> 01:34:36,500
or something about that to

3789
01:34:36,500 --> 01:34:38,583
to taint the whole field.

3790
01:34:38,583 --> 01:34:39,458
And the only

3791
01:34:39,458 --> 01:34:40,125
and then the thing

3792
01:34:40,125 --> 01:34:41,333
that's most surprising about it

3793
01:34:41,333 --> 01:34:42,708
all is it's actually a super,

3794
01:34:42,708 --> 01:34:45,708
super effective tactic.

3795
01:34:47,208 --> 01:34:47,666
But yeah,

3796
01:34:47,666 --> 01:34:48,791
it's yeah,

3797
01:34:48,791 --> 01:34:49,500
I don't know where I'm going

3798
01:34:49,500 --> 01:34:50,666
with all the other than to say that.

3799
01:34:50,666 --> 01:34:52,375
Yeah. I was also surprised by that.

3800
01:34:52,375 --> 01:34:53,333
And I would encourage

3801
01:34:53,333 --> 01:34:54,208
others who have

3802
01:34:54,208 --> 01:34:56,208
who are trying to sort of

3803
01:34:56,208 --> 01:34:57,708
wrap their head around this stuff.

3804
01:34:57,708 --> 01:34:58,083
And jeez,

3805
01:34:58,083 --> 01:34:58,666
that Bitcoiners

3806
01:34:58,666 --> 01:34:59,708
are all seem to be mad

3807
01:34:59,708 --> 01:35:01,125
about this weird Austrian thing.

3808
01:35:01,125 --> 01:35:01,416
It's like,

3809
01:35:01,416 --> 01:35:02,541
yeah, it's pretty,

3810
01:35:02,541 --> 01:35:04,791
it's pretty unusual.

3811
01:35:04,791 --> 01:35:05,541
And different from

3812
01:35:05,541 --> 01:35:07,625
what is the accepted norm.

3813
01:35:07,625 --> 01:35:09,291
But it's also worth looking into

3814
01:35:09,291 --> 01:35:11,083
because you might be surprised what

3815
01:35:11,083 --> 01:35:12,041
you come away with.

3816
01:35:13,125 --> 01:35:14,125
Yeah, absolutely.

3817
01:35:14,125 --> 01:35:16,708
It's very logical and very clean.

3818
01:35:16,708 --> 01:35:17,875
I actually liked Soviet

3819
01:35:17,875 --> 01:35:19,500
in a moose's,

3820
01:35:19,500 --> 01:35:21,041
podcast on Lex Friedman

3821
01:35:21,041 --> 01:35:22,875
went on for four hours

3822
01:35:22,875 --> 01:35:24,791
and he goes, it's economics

3823
01:35:24,791 --> 01:35:25,958
because it's economics.

3824
01:35:25,958 --> 01:35:26,791
That's economics.

3825
01:35:26,791 --> 01:35:27,625
The Austrian school,

3826
01:35:27,625 --> 01:35:28,375
that's economics.

3827
01:35:28,375 --> 01:35:30,833
Everything else is population.

3828
01:35:30,833 --> 01:35:32,208
Yes, yes.

3829
01:35:32,208 --> 01:35:33,083
And it's it's.

3830
01:35:33,083 --> 01:35:33,500
Interesting.

3831
01:35:33,500 --> 01:35:34,875
To me because you don't need

3832
01:35:34,875 --> 01:35:35,541
I think

3833
01:35:35,541 --> 01:35:37,250
when you say stuff like that,

3834
01:35:37,250 --> 01:35:38,833
I'm speaking from experience again.

3835
01:35:38,833 --> 01:35:41,208
It smells very,

3836
01:35:41,208 --> 01:35:43,791
conspiratorial.

3837
01:35:43,791 --> 01:35:45,000
And usually conspiracy

3838
01:35:45,000 --> 01:35:46,375
theory is also crazy, right.

3839
01:35:46,375 --> 01:35:47,416
It's like the flat earthers.

3840
01:35:47,416 --> 01:35:49,000
Like, not everything

3841
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:49,916
is a conspiracy.

3842
01:35:49,916 --> 01:35:50,958
There is not a cabal

3843
01:35:50,958 --> 01:35:51,916
of lizard people.

3844
01:35:51,916 --> 01:35:54,041
The center of the earth that are,

3845
01:35:54,041 --> 01:35:55,250
you know, the puppet masters.

3846
01:35:55,250 --> 01:35:57,583
And, you know, it's just not true.

3847
01:35:57,583 --> 01:35:58,875
So it's not that.

3848
01:35:58,875 --> 01:35:59,708
It's not that there

3849
01:35:59,708 --> 01:36:01,666
I really maybe I'm wrong. Who knows?

3850
01:36:01,666 --> 01:36:03,250
But I don't think

3851
01:36:03,250 --> 01:36:04,541
whatever the people say

3852
01:36:04,541 --> 01:36:05,041
is the George

3853
01:36:05,041 --> 01:36:06,875
Soros of the world out there,

3854
01:36:06,875 --> 01:36:08,000
you know, pulling the strings

3855
01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:08,958
behind the scenes.

3856
01:36:08,958 --> 01:36:10,791
You don't need overt,

3857
01:36:12,541 --> 01:36:13,875
collaboration and

3858
01:36:13,875 --> 01:36:15,750
coordination for these things.

3859
01:36:15,750 --> 01:36:18,750
It's really just the organic,

3860
01:36:19,125 --> 01:36:21,208
what's the what's the word for it?

3861
01:36:21,208 --> 01:36:22,583
It's sort of,

3862
01:36:22,583 --> 01:36:25,416
you know, it's an emergent property

3863
01:36:25,416 --> 01:36:26,625
of a whole bunch

3864
01:36:26,625 --> 01:36:28,666
of individual incentives

3865
01:36:28,666 --> 01:36:31,166
so that that all the various,

3866
01:36:31,166 --> 01:36:32,416
you know, whatever it be, bankers

3867
01:36:32,416 --> 01:36:34,416
or central bankers or politicians,

3868
01:36:34,416 --> 01:36:34,791
the way

3869
01:36:34,791 --> 01:36:37,791
they're going to zero in on that,

3870
01:36:37,791 --> 01:36:38,666
just because that's

3871
01:36:38,666 --> 01:36:40,041
what the game theory

3872
01:36:40,041 --> 01:36:41,541
suggests should happen and predicts

3873
01:36:41,541 --> 01:36:42,375
what should happen,

3874
01:36:42,375 --> 01:36:43,500
rather than we're

3875
01:36:43,500 --> 01:36:45,500
all coordinating in secret

3876
01:36:45,500 --> 01:36:47,208
to, to make this happen.

3877
01:36:47,208 --> 01:36:48,583
And I just make that point

3878
01:36:48,583 --> 01:36:49,916
because I

3879
01:36:49,916 --> 01:36:52,458
again, I'm, I'm just hyper sensitive

3880
01:36:52,458 --> 01:36:53,208
to being painted

3881
01:36:53,208 --> 01:36:55,000
as a crazy conspiracy theorist

3882
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:55,708
because I'm very

3883
01:36:55,708 --> 01:36:57,458
I know how this stuff sounds, right.

3884
01:36:57,458 --> 01:36:58,750
And I don't think

3885
01:36:58,750 --> 01:37:00,291
there is a conspiracy. It's just.

3886
01:37:00,291 --> 01:37:01,208
Yeah, yeah,

3887
01:37:01,208 --> 01:37:02,125
aggregation of

3888
01:37:02,125 --> 01:37:04,375
of misaligned incentives.

3889
01:37:04,375 --> 01:37:06,041
Yeah, I absolutely agree.

3890
01:37:06,041 --> 01:37:06,791
I agree with you.

3891
01:37:06,791 --> 01:37:09,000
And I have the same view as well.

3892
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:09,500
I can

3893
01:37:09,500 --> 01:37:10,750
you know, I've worked in corporate.

3894
01:37:10,750 --> 01:37:13,875
I can understand how things can just

3895
01:37:13,875 --> 01:37:15,083
terribly go wrong

3896
01:37:15,083 --> 01:37:16,291
when you have a large number

3897
01:37:16,291 --> 01:37:17,958
of people working on something

3898
01:37:17,958 --> 01:37:19,541
and it kind of like this thing

3899
01:37:19,541 --> 01:37:20,958
takes a life on its own

3900
01:37:20,958 --> 01:37:22,000
and he builds momentum

3901
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:23,500
and we just kind of carry on,

3902
01:37:23,500 --> 01:37:24,458
even though we all know

3903
01:37:24,458 --> 01:37:25,375
it's kind of wrong,

3904
01:37:25,375 --> 01:37:26,416
but we keep doing it

3905
01:37:26,416 --> 01:37:28,791
because it's it's just too hard

3906
01:37:28,791 --> 01:37:29,666
to, like,

3907
01:37:29,666 --> 01:37:31,291
break it apart for what it is.

3908
01:37:31,291 --> 01:37:31,750
Sorry,

3909
01:37:31,750 --> 01:37:32,375
I don't think there's

3910
01:37:32,375 --> 01:37:34,458
any conspiracy behind it either.

3911
01:37:34,458 --> 01:37:35,583
I think, you know,

3912
01:37:35,583 --> 01:37:37,083
this is the system that we live in

3913
01:37:37,083 --> 01:37:37,791
and it makes sense.

3914
01:37:37,791 --> 01:37:38,666
The universities

3915
01:37:38,666 --> 01:37:39,916
teach this school of thought

3916
01:37:39,916 --> 01:37:41,125
because this is the

3917
01:37:41,125 --> 01:37:43,041
system that we need to. Yeah.

3918
01:37:44,416 --> 01:37:45,583
Abstain essentially.

3919
01:37:45,583 --> 01:37:47,375
So, not abstain.

3920
01:37:47,375 --> 01:37:49,500
What's the word I'm looking for?

3921
01:37:49,500 --> 01:37:50,458
Uphold.

3922
01:37:50,458 --> 01:37:52,625
Oh, yeah.

3923
01:37:52,625 --> 01:37:53,291
Yeah.

3924
01:37:53,291 --> 01:37:55,916
And sorry.

3925
01:37:55,916 --> 01:37:56,291
No, sorry.

3926
01:37:56,291 --> 01:37:56,625
Sorry.

3927
01:37:56,625 --> 01:37:57,833
So yeah, in that sense,

3928
01:37:57,833 --> 01:38:00,166
it would make sense,

3929
01:38:00,166 --> 01:38:01,250
to, to teach that

3930
01:38:01,250 --> 01:38:02,625
primarily in the school

3931
01:38:02,625 --> 01:38:03,958
because we need to equip

3932
01:38:03,958 --> 01:38:06,708
the future of workforce

3933
01:38:06,708 --> 01:38:08,000
for central banking

3934
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:09,250
as it exists today.

3935
01:38:09,250 --> 01:38:10,041
That doesn't mean

3936
01:38:10,041 --> 01:38:11,250
that it's not good

3937
01:38:11,250 --> 01:38:13,583
to learn other schools and question

3938
01:38:13,583 --> 01:38:15,500
why potentially

3939
01:38:15,500 --> 01:38:18,291
this might not be the best solution

3940
01:38:18,291 --> 01:38:19,458
that there is

3941
01:38:19,458 --> 01:38:22,083
and how we might potentially

3942
01:38:22,083 --> 01:38:24,791
benefit from a deflationary world.

3943
01:38:24,791 --> 01:38:26,458
Because I grew up very much thinking

3944
01:38:26,458 --> 01:38:28,708
inflation is great, it's necessary.

3945
01:38:28,708 --> 01:38:30,458
And now I'm like, interesting.

3946
01:38:30,458 --> 01:38:31,375
There's people out there

3947
01:38:31,375 --> 01:38:33,125
who think that's not the case.

3948
01:38:33,125 --> 01:38:35,291
I want to know why. I'm curious.

3949
01:38:35,291 --> 01:38:36,541
So it's not it's

3950
01:38:36,541 --> 01:38:37,666
not about conspiracy.

3951
01:38:37,666 --> 01:38:39,375
It's about curiosity for me.

3952
01:38:39,375 --> 01:38:39,708
Yeah.

3953
01:38:39,708 --> 01:38:41,416
I loved how you put that.

3954
01:38:41,416 --> 01:38:42,208
Just I'm going to steal

3955
01:38:42,208 --> 01:38:43,458
that because it it

3956
01:38:44,458 --> 01:38:45,583
that's that's really

3957
01:38:45,583 --> 01:38:46,583
the encouragement here.

3958
01:38:46,583 --> 01:38:48,958
It's not to say

3959
01:38:48,958 --> 01:38:50,625
my ideology is right.

3960
01:38:50,625 --> 01:38:52,083
And I need you to study it.

3961
01:38:52,083 --> 01:38:52,708
And if you study it,

3962
01:38:52,708 --> 01:38:53,291
you'll think I'm

3963
01:38:53,291 --> 01:38:54,500
you'll agree that I'm right

3964
01:38:54,500 --> 01:38:56,041
and I it's not.

3965
01:38:56,041 --> 01:38:56,875
The way you framed it

3966
01:38:56,875 --> 01:38:58,458
then was more about

3967
01:38:58,458 --> 01:38:59,333
there's just a different way

3968
01:38:59,333 --> 01:39:02,291
of viewing the world of economics.

3969
01:39:02,291 --> 01:39:03,166
And there's another school

3970
01:39:03,166 --> 01:39:06,166
of thought, at the very least,

3971
01:39:07,041 --> 01:39:08,250
explore it in good faith,

3972
01:39:08,250 --> 01:39:09,000
because you might find

3973
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:09,875
a couple of good ideas.

3974
01:39:09,875 --> 01:39:11,291
You may end up dismissing it

3975
01:39:11,291 --> 01:39:12,583
after after going through that,

3976
01:39:12,583 --> 01:39:13,458
that journey.

3977
01:39:13,458 --> 01:39:14,333
And that's fine too.

3978
01:39:14,333 --> 01:39:15,291
No, no problem with that.

3979
01:39:15,291 --> 01:39:16,000
You don't have to agree

3980
01:39:16,000 --> 01:39:16,833
with anything

3981
01:39:16,833 --> 01:39:18,166
you don't want to agree with.

3982
01:39:18,166 --> 01:39:18,625
It's more

3983
01:39:18,625 --> 01:39:19,416
that point of I'm

3984
01:39:19,416 --> 01:39:20,958
just going to dismiss it out of hand

3985
01:39:20,958 --> 01:39:23,208
because he looks in it

3986
01:39:23,208 --> 01:39:24,208
in a certain way.

3987
01:39:24,208 --> 01:39:25,541
And yeah, I just

3988
01:39:25,541 --> 01:39:26,000
I just loved

3989
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:26,750
how you sort of said that.

3990
01:39:26,750 --> 01:39:28,041
Just out of curiosity,

3991
01:39:28,041 --> 01:39:30,333
if you're interested in economics,

3992
01:39:30,333 --> 01:39:32,041
I, I are you curious in this,

3993
01:39:32,041 --> 01:39:32,666
by the way,

3994
01:39:32,666 --> 01:39:34,416
this very this is Chicago's

3995
01:39:34,416 --> 01:39:35,375
school of thought.

3996
01:39:35,375 --> 01:39:36,166
There's the Austrian

3997
01:39:36,166 --> 01:39:36,708
school of thought,

3998
01:39:36,708 --> 01:39:37,958
quite kind of closely related,

3999
01:39:37,958 --> 01:39:39,291
but not exactly the same.

4000
01:39:39,291 --> 01:39:40,583
This the Keynesian rules

4001
01:39:40,583 --> 01:39:41,541
of school of thought,

4002
01:39:41,541 --> 01:39:42,291
this whole actually,

4003
01:39:42,291 --> 01:39:43,791
there's a whole stew

4004
01:39:43,791 --> 01:39:46,250
of different ways of carving it up.

4005
01:39:46,250 --> 01:39:47,250
And then when you get

4006
01:39:47,250 --> 01:39:47,875
this is always

4007
01:39:47,875 --> 01:39:49,083
true for humans, right?

4008
01:39:49,083 --> 01:39:50,166
If you go to a,

4009
01:39:50,166 --> 01:39:51,750
an Austrian conference,

4010
01:39:51,750 --> 01:39:53,666
they'll be very heated arguments

4011
01:39:53,666 --> 01:39:55,458
between the Austrian. Right.

4012
01:39:55,458 --> 01:39:56,000
You know, like

4013
01:39:56,000 --> 01:39:57,250
so even within the group,

4014
01:39:57,250 --> 01:39:58,916
there is disagreements like.

4015
01:39:58,916 --> 01:40:01,333
But it is absolutely something

4016
01:40:01,333 --> 01:40:02,750
that is at the very least,

4017
01:40:02,750 --> 01:40:04,333
just be aware

4018
01:40:04,333 --> 01:40:05,875
of another way of thinking

4019
01:40:05,875 --> 01:40:07,250
and understanding the world,

4020
01:40:07,250 --> 01:40:07,750
because you might

4021
01:40:07,750 --> 01:40:08,625
find some value in it

4022
01:40:08,625 --> 01:40:09,708
or you might not,

4023
01:40:09,708 --> 01:40:10,833
but be aware of it. Right.

4024
01:40:10,833 --> 01:40:11,416
So I think

4025
01:40:11,416 --> 01:40:12,333
that's a really good point.

4026
01:40:12,333 --> 01:40:13,583
And something else you said there,

4027
01:40:15,375 --> 01:40:17,833
reminded me of, Oh that's right.

4028
01:40:17,833 --> 01:40:18,375
Is this

4029
01:40:18,375 --> 01:40:20,416
I think the other big challenge

4030
01:40:20,416 --> 01:40:21,375
you've got with Austrian

4031
01:40:21,375 --> 01:40:23,583
economics is it's, it's the

4032
01:40:23,583 --> 01:40:24,708
there's a lot to be said

4033
01:40:24,708 --> 01:40:26,916
for social proof in the sense

4034
01:40:26,916 --> 01:40:28,125
that we're just doing it.

4035
01:40:28,125 --> 01:40:29,041
And if we're all doing it,

4036
01:40:29,041 --> 01:40:31,125
then therefore must be right.

4037
01:40:31,125 --> 01:40:32,208
And again, remember,

4038
01:40:32,208 --> 01:40:33,625
there was a time

4039
01:40:33,625 --> 01:40:35,125
in the Incan empire

4040
01:40:35,125 --> 01:40:36,583
where we would cut off

4041
01:40:36,583 --> 01:40:38,166
the heads of our first child

4042
01:40:38,166 --> 01:40:41,166
and hope that it would rain right.

4043
01:40:41,541 --> 01:40:43,125
And

4044
01:40:43,125 --> 01:40:44,000
you can imagine

4045
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:46,125
that there is someone

4046
01:40:46,125 --> 01:40:47,291
he might go up to the high

4047
01:40:47,291 --> 01:40:49,083
priest and say.

4048
01:40:49,083 --> 01:40:52,250
Wait a minute, do really?

4049
01:40:52,916 --> 01:40:54,041
Yeah. And that.

4050
01:40:54,041 --> 01:40:55,000
But the argument

4051
01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:55,875
would have been the same.

4052
01:40:55,875 --> 01:40:57,125
It's like,

4053
01:40:57,125 --> 01:40:59,833
well, we've always done it.

4054
01:40:59,833 --> 01:41:02,041
It's always seem to work out.

4055
01:41:02,041 --> 01:41:02,708
And you're saying

4056
01:41:02,708 --> 01:41:04,000
like, don't do this.

4057
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:04,750
Like, yeah,

4058
01:41:04,750 --> 01:41:05,958
I'm kind of saying that

4059
01:41:05,958 --> 01:41:07,125
I don't really think

4060
01:41:07,125 --> 01:41:08,416
that killing my child

4061
01:41:08,416 --> 01:41:10,208
is going to help the village head,

4062
01:41:10,208 --> 01:41:10,833
but you would have.

4063
01:41:10,833 --> 01:41:12,291
But but the social proof

4064
01:41:12,291 --> 01:41:13,541
of having a society

4065
01:41:13,541 --> 01:41:14,041
that lived

4066
01:41:14,041 --> 01:41:15,583
that particular way

4067
01:41:15,583 --> 01:41:16,625
for God knows

4068
01:41:16,625 --> 01:41:17,916
how many hundreds of years,

4069
01:41:17,916 --> 01:41:18,375
you know,

4070
01:41:18,375 --> 01:41:19,958
and then to sort of question

4071
01:41:19,958 --> 01:41:21,708
that just by virtue

4072
01:41:21,708 --> 01:41:22,708
of not

4073
01:41:22,708 --> 01:41:24,250
being consensus

4074
01:41:24,250 --> 01:41:26,083
and just by virtue of the

4075
01:41:26,083 --> 01:41:27,375
the history of that

4076
01:41:27,375 --> 01:41:30,208
being that way for that long

4077
01:41:30,208 --> 01:41:32,458
makes it almost impossible to break.

4078
01:41:32,458 --> 01:41:34,041
You can say the same about slavery,

4079
01:41:34,041 --> 01:41:35,416
which was absolutely

4080
01:41:35,416 --> 01:41:36,500
the normal inhuman,

4081
01:41:36,500 --> 01:41:37,625
like the absolute

4082
01:41:37,625 --> 01:41:39,708
standard in human civilization,

4083
01:41:39,708 --> 01:41:40,958
going back as far as you want.

4084
01:41:40,958 --> 01:41:41,666
It's still modern day

4085
01:41:41,666 --> 01:41:43,750
slavery around today, you know.

4086
01:41:43,750 --> 01:41:44,208
Is this like

4087
01:41:44,208 --> 01:41:44,958
and then at some point,

4088
01:41:44,958 --> 01:41:45,458
someone said,

4089
01:41:45,458 --> 01:41:48,375
maybe it's not right to own people.

4090
01:41:48,375 --> 01:41:49,791
It's a pretty renegade idea

4091
01:41:49,791 --> 01:41:51,125
at the time.

4092
01:41:51,125 --> 01:41:52,250
And so whenever you're going

4093
01:41:52,250 --> 01:41:53,583
against such immense

4094
01:41:53,583 --> 01:41:54,666
social proof, he's

4095
01:41:54,666 --> 01:41:56,625
always going to be

4096
01:41:56,625 --> 01:41:58,708
it is always going to be super hard.

4097
01:41:58,708 --> 01:41:59,458
And so I guess that's a

4098
01:41:59,458 --> 01:42:01,125
that's another pillar.

4099
01:42:01,125 --> 01:42:02,041
No, it's never.

4100
01:42:02,041 --> 01:42:04,916
Going to be right too soon.

4101
01:42:04,916 --> 01:42:06,166
Oh, but I say

4102
01:42:06,166 --> 01:42:06,708
being right

4103
01:42:06,708 --> 01:42:08,208
early is is indistinguishable

4104
01:42:08,208 --> 01:42:08,958
from being wrong,

4105
01:42:08,958 --> 01:42:10,708
which actually doesn't apply in

4106
01:42:10,708 --> 01:42:12,791
this case. But but yes. Yeah.

4107
01:42:14,833 --> 01:42:15,583
And it's hard.

4108
01:42:15,583 --> 01:42:16,666
It is.

4109
01:42:16,666 --> 01:42:19,208
We again go to well evolution.

4110
01:42:19,208 --> 01:42:19,541
Right.

4111
01:42:19,541 --> 01:42:21,583
Like if you're in the village

4112
01:42:21,583 --> 01:42:23,416
and you disagree with everyone,

4113
01:42:23,416 --> 01:42:24,500
they're just going to kick you out

4114
01:42:24,500 --> 01:42:25,791
and you're going to be alone

4115
01:42:25,791 --> 01:42:26,500
in the wilderness

4116
01:42:26,500 --> 01:42:28,083
fighting the wolves by yourself.

4117
01:42:28,083 --> 01:42:31,083
So we are very much genetically,

4118
01:42:31,666 --> 01:42:34,375
selected to be

4119
01:42:34,375 --> 01:42:37,375
consensus, consensus oriented

4120
01:42:37,541 --> 01:42:38,416
and to go with what

4121
01:42:38,416 --> 01:42:41,416
the tribe is saying.

4122
01:42:41,625 --> 01:42:43,166
Which is why most investors

4123
01:42:43,166 --> 01:42:44,791
have really bad investors

4124
01:42:44,791 --> 01:42:46,000
because we all run with lemmings

4125
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:46,500
when it's,

4126
01:42:46,500 --> 01:42:48,208
oh, buy and sell and, you know,

4127
01:42:48,208 --> 01:42:49,666
all the share market stuff

4128
01:42:49,666 --> 01:42:51,125
that always drives people wrong.

4129
01:42:51,125 --> 01:42:52,166
It's because of

4130
01:42:52,166 --> 01:42:53,958
of that kind of that

4131
01:42:53,958 --> 01:42:55,666
a desire to, to,

4132
01:42:55,666 --> 01:42:58,625
to to be amongst that consensus.

4133
01:42:58,625 --> 01:42:59,416
But again, don't

4134
01:42:59,416 --> 01:43:00,625
forget about Bitcoin right.

4135
01:43:00,625 --> 01:43:02,208
It's like we mentioned

4136
01:43:02,208 --> 01:43:03,291
Buffett and manga before.

4137
01:43:03,291 --> 01:43:04,041
Why did they do.

4138
01:43:04,041 --> 01:43:04,750
Well because they had

4139
01:43:04,750 --> 01:43:05,791
a really non consensus

4140
01:43:05,791 --> 01:43:06,333
way of thinking.

4141
01:43:06,333 --> 01:43:06,708
In fact I think

4142
01:43:06,708 --> 01:43:08,291
if any great investor

4143
01:43:08,291 --> 01:43:09,625
Stan Druckenmiller

4144
01:43:09,625 --> 01:43:10,250
Peter Lynch

4145
01:43:10,250 --> 01:43:11,250
you know there's thousands of men

4146
01:43:11,250 --> 01:43:12,291
like the one thing

4147
01:43:12,291 --> 01:43:13,250
they share in common.

4148
01:43:13,250 --> 01:43:14,208
Dalio is the other one.

4149
01:43:14,208 --> 01:43:15,666
The one thing they share in common

4150
01:43:15,666 --> 01:43:18,166
is they are independent thinkers.

4151
01:43:18,166 --> 01:43:19,625
Doesn't mean they're always right.

4152
01:43:19,625 --> 01:43:20,083
But they

4153
01:43:20,083 --> 01:43:21,958
that they're staunchly independent

4154
01:43:21,958 --> 01:43:25,541
in that they form their views by by

4155
01:43:25,875 --> 01:43:28,708
seeking out fact evidence,

4156
01:43:28,708 --> 01:43:29,875
applying reason.

4157
01:43:29,875 --> 01:43:30,625
And that's how

4158
01:43:30,625 --> 01:43:32,375
they form their conclusion,

4159
01:43:32,375 --> 01:43:33,375
which when you say it out

4160
01:43:33,375 --> 01:43:34,250
loud, is like, well,

4161
01:43:34,250 --> 01:43:35,166
how else do you do it?

4162
01:43:35,166 --> 01:43:36,250
Well, the reality is,

4163
01:43:36,250 --> 01:43:37,041
most people do it

4164
01:43:37,041 --> 01:43:38,500
by looking around them

4165
01:43:38,500 --> 01:43:39,041
and saying, well,

4166
01:43:39,041 --> 01:43:42,041
everyone thinks that there's a

4167
01:43:42,166 --> 01:43:43,041
man in the sky

4168
01:43:43,041 --> 01:43:43,958
with a white beard

4169
01:43:43,958 --> 01:43:45,375
and he makes it rain and does it.

4170
01:43:45,375 --> 01:43:46,375
So that's what I think, too.

4171
01:43:46,375 --> 01:43:47,958
And it's just, you know, it just.

4172
01:43:47,958 --> 01:43:49,458
And I sound like

4173
01:43:49,458 --> 01:43:50,291
I'm being derisive there.

4174
01:43:50,291 --> 01:43:50,916
I don't

4175
01:43:50,916 --> 01:43:52,041
I just think it's

4176
01:43:52,041 --> 01:43:52,750
actually

4177
01:43:52,750 --> 01:43:55,291
it is our nature to be like that.

4178
01:43:55,291 --> 01:43:56,416
And there's a very good reason

4179
01:43:56,416 --> 01:43:57,500
that it's like that.

4180
01:43:57,500 --> 01:43:58,000
It's just that

4181
01:43:58,000 --> 01:43:59,083
the evolutionary reasons

4182
01:43:59,083 --> 01:43:59,708
that made a huge

4183
01:43:59,708 --> 01:44:00,916
amount of sense in 10,000

4184
01:44:00,916 --> 01:44:02,958
BC don't make a lot of sense

4185
01:44:02,958 --> 01:44:04,250
when you're trying to analyze

4186
01:44:04,250 --> 01:44:05,458
modern monetary systems

4187
01:44:05,458 --> 01:44:06,250
and the evolution

4188
01:44:06,250 --> 01:44:07,583
of of capital structures

4189
01:44:07,583 --> 01:44:08,208
and the rest of it,

4190
01:44:08,208 --> 01:44:10,291
and just investing in general.

4191
01:44:10,291 --> 01:44:12,041
So I know what's my point.

4192
01:44:12,041 --> 01:44:13,000
My point is

4193
01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:15,250
be an independent thinker. I guess.

4194
01:44:17,208 --> 01:44:18,291
And that's an excellent

4195
01:44:18,291 --> 01:44:19,875
point to end with.

4196
01:44:19,875 --> 01:44:21,000
Thank you so much,

4197
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:22,458
Andrew, for your time.

4198
01:44:22,458 --> 01:44:23,166
I've loved having you

4199
01:44:23,166 --> 01:44:23,958
on this podcast,

4200
01:44:23,958 --> 01:44:26,000
and it's so nice to have someone

4201
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:28,833
who has a foot in both worlds, fiat

4202
01:44:28,833 --> 01:44:29,666
and Bitcoin,

4203
01:44:29,666 --> 01:44:32,416
and can hopefully inspire,

4204
01:44:32,416 --> 01:44:34,208
more people to pick up a book,

4205
01:44:34,208 --> 01:44:35,333
listen to a podcast,

4206
01:44:35,333 --> 01:44:37,875
and get curious about Bitcoin

4207
01:44:37,875 --> 01:44:38,958
because it is a gift

4208
01:44:38,958 --> 01:44:40,041
that keeps on giving,

4209
01:44:40,041 --> 01:44:41,083
not just financially,

4210
01:44:41,083 --> 01:44:44,083
but you know, I quite enjoyed,

4211
01:44:44,083 --> 01:44:45,666
all the side benefits fringe

4212
01:44:45,666 --> 01:44:47,625
benefits of of Bitcoin as well.

4213
01:44:47,625 --> 01:44:48,666
So thank you.

4214
01:44:48,666 --> 01:44:49,416
Well thank you

4215
01:44:49,416 --> 01:44:50,500
so much for having me on.

4216
01:44:50,500 --> 01:44:52,125
It is a great privilege.

4217
01:44:52,125 --> 01:44:53,208
As soon as you reached,

4218
01:44:53,208 --> 01:44:54,708
I said to my wife,

4219
01:44:54,708 --> 01:44:56,083
someone wants to talk to me about

4220
01:44:56,083 --> 01:44:57,291
because I'm there,

4221
01:44:57,291 --> 01:44:58,000
I'm there,

4222
01:44:58,000 --> 01:44:59,750
I, I it's all I need to know,

4223
01:44:59,750 --> 01:45:01,583
I think, and I know that is it.

4224
01:45:01,583 --> 01:45:03,625
So I like any opportunity I get.

4225
01:45:03,625 --> 01:45:05,458
They don't often get a chance,

4226
01:45:05,458 --> 01:45:06,708
in my traditional life.

4227
01:45:06,708 --> 01:45:08,083
So thank you so much for that,

4228
01:45:08,083 --> 01:45:08,750
for the privilege

4229
01:45:08,750 --> 01:45:10,083
of being able to rant

4230
01:45:10,083 --> 01:45:10,583
and spray

4231
01:45:10,583 --> 01:45:12,041
all these random thoughts at people

4232
01:45:12,041 --> 01:45:13,458
I do, I do really enjoy it.

4233
01:45:13,458 --> 01:45:13,875
Thank you.

4234
01:45:15,166 --> 01:45:16,166
Thanks, Andrew.