Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello and welcome, Hannah.
I love starting a conversation with a good giggle.
Oh, yeah, so I agree.
what it's about when you're listening.
So you're going to have to hang in there.
Hello, welcome, Hannah.
I'm delighted to have you here.
Hana: Thank you.
I'm absolutely thrilled to be here, Anke.
Anke: So, well, let's just start right at the beginning.
Let people know where you're based, where you're from, where you're
based, and what's your business.
Hana: Um, so I'm Hanna Mäkkinen.
I'm an animal communicator and I specialize, um, in animal, well, obviously
animal communication, but Most of my practice is working with pet parents on
the end of life journey with their pet.
Um, helping them, um, navigate, um, a more compassionate
ending, be that euthanization, hospice, or palliative care.
And then I'm also helping pet parents in the afterlife and giving communications.
And I offer, like, grief and support sessions.
And I'm also a grief, um, specialist.
I've trained with.
Uh, David Kessler as well.
And I've gone to the Gurney Institute of Animal Communication.
I'm originally from Finland, but, uh, raised, uh, in Canada, in Western
Canada, primarily, and currently I'm residing in, uh, Alberta, Canada.
Yeah.
Anke: So I'm now curious, how does one get into that?
Like, I mean, I would imagine, you know, you come out of school, somebody asks you,
So, Hannah, what do you want to be when, you know, like, Specializing in end of
life for animals, I would imagine, maybe?
You know, was that what you were thinking of, or did that have a little detour
Hana: to get there?
Oh, it's been a journey, actually, to get here.
Um, I have Experienced a lot of traumatic pet deaths, um, throughout
my childhood and throughout my life.
And death was something that was never openly spoken about.
And, you know, growing up in the 60s and 70s, You know, our pets,
when it was time for them to pass, my parents would just take them to
the vet and they wouldn't come home and then we wouldn't talk about it.
And I was like, where'd they go?
Like, I wouldn't have a chance to say goodbye, or in some instances I would
have a chance to say goodbye, but I wasn't allowed in there because it was deemed as
a child, like, you shouldn't be in there.
Um, and at 17 I was, uh, forced to make the most difficult decision of my
life, uh, which was a horse of mine who was, um, my best friend my entire life.
Uh, I really believe that he got me through my, the angst of the teenage
years and, um, he had fractured, uh, the patella in his, in his knee, uh, his knee
bone, and, um, My parents asked me to and told me that I was the one responsible
to make the choice for his outcome.
So here at 17 with no guidance, and then I shut down, um, because at 17 with no
grief awareness, my parents didn't know how, and it isn't something that you're
talked about, and back then animals were seen not as family members to the level
or that impact that they have in our life.
And It's through all that and my parents fear of death, my fear of death, um, it
was about, I, I always get mixed up with time, so every interview it's slightly
different, uh, between 20 and 30 years ago, um, when we were doing the end
of life journey with my grandmother.
It was my aunt who taught me a different way to do death, and she walked me through
it, and I realized, oh, this is hard, this is sad, this is really emotional,
but it doesn't have to be scary.
And Later, probably another decade after that, I came to animal communication.
And friends of mine always say I tend to be a death magnet or the death queen.
Um, because people call me when, uh, a family member is dying.
I've, I've uh, helped in, in, uh, palliative care for
family members and friends.
And it's just a natural place that I'm literally drawn to.
I can't imagine myself not doing this.
Um, and it has just happened.
So when I went into animal communication, um, it just naturally
evolved to start doing end of life.
And the whole end of life journey, uh, helping clients when I'm in person, um, be
present with them during, um, the ending or the euthanization with their pet.
Um, so it's just, it's, it's become a natural progression and I honestly
wouldn't want to be anywhere else.
Like I just spent the last 10 months with hospice care with my
mother and I was there for her final breath three months ago and her.
That time of end of life with her just feeds me and I see how the human
side and the animal side both relate because the animals when I'm working
with clients, I'm helping explain to them that we don't need to have the
fear, um, even though I acknowledge that they have fear, but I help them
find a pace of, um, peace and presence.
I never take anyone's pain away because I can't, that's not my job, but.
I can help unburden guilt and regret so they can have a different perspective
and really find the sacred love that is present during end of life.
Because this is the place that I have discovered, like I have
spent over 10 years with dementia journeys with both of my parents.
So I have literally lived a decade of end of life of losing them every day.
You know, two years, two and a half years ago, I lost my soul dog as well, and I,
I have so much personal experience in grief, but I'm also learning in that,
that pain and love coexist, and they're there to help each other, and when we can
go through without the fear of it, we can really find a sense of presence, and Be
in the bittersweetness of the situation and know that we're going to be okay.
Anke: Do you find, I mean that just kind of reminds me like my first dog
passed away like two, two and a half, like a bit over two years ago now.
And I remember one, and he was almost, he was 16 and a half, you know, so
I was like Kind of proud that he'd had a long, you know, he came as this
little street, you know, street puppy.
So I found him in the street at four months, like a little
traumatized little pup.
And so I promised him at the time, I was like, I'm going to do whatever I can to
make sure you have a good life, you know?
And I sort of felt like, well, yeah, you know, I delivered kind of thing, you know?
And I think one of the things I remember as like really Soothing was that
sense of not having regrets, right?
There was nothing I felt guilty about.
And, and so I wonder, is that something that burdens a lot of people?
Because you mentioned it and I'm thinking like, what is it
that people come to you for?
Because I just remind my own experience was like literally
knowing that, look, there was.
I didn't mess up here, you know, like he passed away at a decent age, you
know, he was well right to the end.
There was nothing where I go, Oh, if I'd done this or that, like, you know, none
of that second guessing, you know, so it was like, what I can give you is be here
with you, like right to the very end.
And, and, but there was no.
Yeah, no sense like, oh, I wish I had, you know, and I'm like, I don't,
I, this would be so much harder.
Is this something that's common
Hana: when people come to you?
It's, it, it, it's really common, but there's also a function
that I want people to know.
So they need to be gentle with themselves.
There's a few tangents I'm going to go off of.
First of all, I want to go to our animals.
When they're getting ready to pass, they're, they're aware
their time is coming to an end.
They're often waiting for us as the humans to become ready.
So it's, it's still a team.
It's still a partnership in getting ready to companion them to their end.
And they're still companioning you.
They're still helping you and you're helping them.
It's a mutual relationship.
But animals don't understand.
Guilt.
Guilt is a human made, um, I don't even know if it's an emotion really,
it's a feeling of some sort, but It has been made, uh, and animals are always
confused because they are actually pained when they see us in pain or,
um, doubting or questioning ourselves because they always see our true light.
And when they see us in guilt, it's, um, it, it actually, it pains them because
they want us to be free because the guilt is taking us away from the moment, but in
my, my grief work and my experience in, in working with clients, like we come with
our guilt for whatever reason we come with and we're always questioning, but I've
also realized that it is our mind's way.
of also protecting us and wondering what could I have done differently?
What if I did this?
What if I did that?
And that it, I want people to realize it's not really negative.
It's heavy and it can influence your guilt.
or your grief, sorry, but the guilt also does serve a purpose because the pain
in our heart and our body is so big that sometimes we're not ready and we have
to go through the scenarios that what if I did this and this and this but if
we could go through it and be Kinder and gentler and have more self compassion to
ourselves when we do it or understand, Oh, wow, the pain's got to be really
bad if I'm going through all these scenarios because we're always searching.
And I think as a society, we've kind of been conditioned into,
um, what we've done wrong, but in our animals eyes, we've never done
anything wrong because They know.
I have complete goosebumps, so when I get goosebumps, this
is just an absolute download.
They know everything we're doing for them is in love, but can we, as the human, find
self forgiveness and self compassion in going, we only know what we can know in
the moment we're in, and when we learn and know better after, we'll do better.
This is the teaching moment with the present animal that we're with.
is this moment and that guilt if we as humans find again that self
love and go, huh, okay, this is why.
And we become curious about it and we can hold ourselves in it and give
ourselves permission to be in it and release that often most people
once they can flip the switch.
on that.
That's what helps people come to a place of peace, but also to feel
the overwhelming emotion of grief.
So many of us are more afraid of our emotions.
And we think we're going to get stuck in it, and we think we're
going to stay in it, and we think we can't come back from it.
I just want to say, if we think of the weather, It's never sunny all the time.
Storms don't last forever.
Some storms are really destructive or blizzards, you know, they can be
destructive, but they don't last forever.
They can leave.
You changed.
And the death of a beloved dog, the, the death of a loved
one will leave you changed.
But it doesn't mean that you need to remain broken.
It's finding how am I going to rise through this and from this.
Because the only way to really be with our animal during end of life And to be
truly present, is to walk through it.
And do you
Anke: find, like, suppressing us is what kind of probably
makes it stuck a long time?
Oh, gosh, absolutely.
Because I don't know, because I remember, like, one thing I remember doing when
Leo went was like, I just allowed myself to kind of just like, go in it, right?
Yes, yes.
So it was just like, yeah, I cancelled a whole bunch of calls
and, you know, just literally, Yeah.
Allow myself to feel it because it feels like it allows it
to pass through, you know,
Hana: it does.
And like, I, I let people know often that, um, anytime the pain comes
up or the tears just start flowing.
If you think of it, that.
And you give yourself the permission to allow yourself to feel it, you're
removing a little bit of that pain and grief, and then you create space,
and it's that space after, because, I mean, most, most women know, um, after
a good cry it's We feel really good.
So that's the space because we've taken that burden out of us.
And in that space, we now have a little more energy or
a little more love to come in.
Sometimes in the first, you know, days or weeks after the loss, after
such a large emotional release, we're tired and we're exhausted.
And that's normal.
So then we go sleep and take care of ourselves.
But we'll notice that over time, more space develops and more space develops
in between what I call the grief bursts.
And then that's, but just know that every time you're, you're dealing
with your grief in a healthy manner, that you're releasing a little bit.
And more love and more memories and more joy can begin to come in.
So
Anke: where can people like, you know, I think this, you know, everybody I know
has gone through this or has kind of, is kind of scared of when it comes, right?
Oh gosh, yes.
How can they get in touch with you?
Where can they go?
What's the first place you'd send them to?
Hana: Yeah, um, so my website is, uh, called End and After.
So it's, uh, you know, endandafter.
com and my little tagline is for all new beginnings.
And on Instagram and Facebook, you can find me on End and After Medium.
And you can like and follow and subscribe.
You can sign up to my newsletter.
Um, I have lots of blogs.
A lot of people go there and read that and find solace in that.
I do have a YouTube channel as well and an after medium, um, that people can
go and look at some of the, the videos there to see if they find it helpful.
And, uh, Yeah, I'm presently working on an online course to, to help, uh, more
pet parents, um, in their time of need because there's only one of me, um, and
I can't be available all the time and I serve people all around the world.
Love
Anke: it.
And I think we'll have to, we'll have to have you back when
that's, when that's ready to go because this was way too short.
so much.
This has been lovely.
So, so helpful for people and I'm really
Hana: Thank you.
I'm honored to be here and thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Thanks so much for listening.
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That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.