WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.495 --> 00:00:27.175 Anke: Hello and welcome, Hannah. 00:00:27.215 --> 00:00:29.955 I love starting a conversation with a good giggle. 00:00:30.635 --> 00:00:31.665 Oh, yeah, so I agree. 00:00:31.905 --> 00:00:32.695 what it's about when you're listening. 00:00:32.995 --> 00:00:34.345 So you're going to have to hang in there. 00:00:36.495 --> 00:00:37.435 Hello, welcome, Hannah. 00:00:37.465 --> 00:00:39.445 I'm delighted to have you here. 00:00:40.225 --> 00:00:40.665 Hana: Thank you. 00:00:40.665 --> 00:00:42.535 I'm absolutely thrilled to be here, Anke. 00:00:43.805 --> 00:00:47.345 Anke: So, well, let's just start right at the beginning. 00:00:47.355 --> 00:00:49.935 Let people know where you're based, where you're from, where you're 00:00:49.935 --> 00:00:51.095 based, and what's your business. 00:00:52.305 --> 00:00:54.335 Hana: Um, so I'm Hanna Mäkkinen. 00:00:54.335 --> 00:00:59.225 I'm an animal communicator and I specialize, um, in animal, well, obviously 00:00:59.225 --> 00:01:05.895 animal communication, but Most of my practice is working with pet parents on 00:01:05.895 --> 00:01:07.665 the end of life journey with their pet. 00:01:08.195 --> 00:01:13.405 Um, helping them, um, navigate, um, a more compassionate 00:01:13.435 --> 00:01:17.075 ending, be that euthanization, hospice, or palliative care. 00:01:17.525 --> 00:01:23.875 And then I'm also helping pet parents in the afterlife and giving communications. 00:01:23.915 --> 00:01:25.995 And I offer, like, grief and support sessions. 00:01:26.015 --> 00:01:28.385 And I'm also a grief, um, specialist. 00:01:28.385 --> 00:01:29.105 I've trained with. 00:01:29.320 --> 00:01:31.720 Uh, David Kessler as well. 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:34.510 And I've gone to the Gurney Institute of Animal Communication. 00:01:34.550 --> 00:01:40.760 I'm originally from Finland, but, uh, raised, uh, in Canada, in Western 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:45.820 Canada, primarily, and currently I'm residing in, uh, Alberta, Canada. 00:01:47.130 --> 00:01:47.460 Yeah. 00:01:48.775 --> 00:01:54.165 Anke: So I'm now curious, how does one get into that? 00:01:54.245 --> 00:01:58.645 Like, I mean, I would imagine, you know, you come out of school, somebody asks you, 00:01:58.645 --> 00:02:06.210 So, Hannah, what do you want to be when, you know, like, Specializing in end of 00:02:06.210 --> 00:02:09.170 life for animals, I would imagine, maybe? 00:02:09.760 --> 00:02:13.800 You know, was that what you were thinking of, or did that have a little detour 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:14.270 Hana: to get there? 00:02:14.660 --> 00:02:18.490 Oh, it's been a journey, actually, to get here. 00:02:18.550 --> 00:02:24.275 Um, I have Experienced a lot of traumatic pet deaths, um, throughout 00:02:24.275 --> 00:02:26.495 my childhood and throughout my life. 00:02:26.995 --> 00:02:30.985 And death was something that was never openly spoken about. 00:02:31.005 --> 00:02:35.420 And, you know, growing up in the 60s and 70s, You know, our pets, 00:02:35.420 --> 00:02:38.880 when it was time for them to pass, my parents would just take them to 00:02:38.880 --> 00:02:42.060 the vet and they wouldn't come home and then we wouldn't talk about it. 00:02:42.130 --> 00:02:43.640 And I was like, where'd they go? 00:02:43.640 --> 00:02:47.610 Like, I wouldn't have a chance to say goodbye, or in some instances I would 00:02:47.610 --> 00:02:51.650 have a chance to say goodbye, but I wasn't allowed in there because it was deemed as 00:02:51.650 --> 00:02:53.400 a child, like, you shouldn't be in there. 00:02:53.915 --> 00:03:00.315 Um, and at 17 I was, uh, forced to make the most difficult decision of my 00:03:00.315 --> 00:03:08.815 life, uh, which was a horse of mine who was, um, my best friend my entire life. 00:03:08.885 --> 00:03:13.555 Uh, I really believe that he got me through my, the angst of the teenage 00:03:13.555 --> 00:03:21.965 years and, um, he had fractured, uh, the patella in his, in his knee, uh, his knee 00:03:21.965 --> 00:03:29.010 bone, and, um, My parents asked me to and told me that I was the one responsible 00:03:29.010 --> 00:03:30.580 to make the choice for his outcome. 00:03:30.580 --> 00:03:37.440 So here at 17 with no guidance, and then I shut down, um, because at 17 with no 00:03:37.440 --> 00:03:41.410 grief awareness, my parents didn't know how, and it isn't something that you're 00:03:41.440 --> 00:03:46.370 talked about, and back then animals were seen not as family members to the level 00:03:46.370 --> 00:03:48.400 or that impact that they have in our life. 00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:56.720 And It's through all that and my parents fear of death, my fear of death, um, it 00:03:56.720 --> 00:04:00.490 was about, I, I always get mixed up with time, so every interview it's slightly 00:04:00.490 --> 00:04:04.770 different, uh, between 20 and 30 years ago, um, when we were doing the end 00:04:04.770 --> 00:04:06.300 of life journey with my grandmother. 00:04:07.095 --> 00:04:13.225 It was my aunt who taught me a different way to do death, and she walked me through 00:04:13.225 --> 00:04:20.015 it, and I realized, oh, this is hard, this is sad, this is really emotional, 00:04:20.555 --> 00:04:22.675 but it doesn't have to be scary. 00:04:24.835 --> 00:04:30.620 And Later, probably another decade after that, I came to animal communication. 00:04:30.660 --> 00:04:36.590 And friends of mine always say I tend to be a death magnet or the death queen. 00:04:36.990 --> 00:04:42.410 Um, because people call me when, uh, a family member is dying. 00:04:42.410 --> 00:04:46.795 I've, I've uh, helped in, in, uh, palliative care for 00:04:46.805 --> 00:04:48.865 family members and friends. 00:04:49.245 --> 00:04:52.865 And it's just a natural place that I'm literally drawn to. 00:04:52.865 --> 00:04:55.665 I can't imagine myself not doing this. 00:04:56.155 --> 00:05:01.455 Um, and it has just happened. 00:05:01.455 --> 00:05:05.505 So when I went into animal communication, um, it just naturally 00:05:05.505 --> 00:05:09.505 evolved to start doing end of life. 00:05:09.850 --> 00:05:15.350 And the whole end of life journey, uh, helping clients when I'm in person, um, be 00:05:15.350 --> 00:05:20.030 present with them during, um, the ending or the euthanization with their pet. 00:05:20.520 --> 00:05:26.730 Um, so it's just, it's, it's become a natural progression and I honestly 00:05:26.730 --> 00:05:28.480 wouldn't want to be anywhere else. 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:31.800 Like I just spent the last 10 months with hospice care with my 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:38.050 mother and I was there for her final breath three months ago and her. 00:05:38.570 --> 00:05:45.460 That time of end of life with her just feeds me and I see how the human 00:05:45.460 --> 00:05:49.720 side and the animal side both relate because the animals when I'm working 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:54.900 with clients, I'm helping explain to them that we don't need to have the 00:05:54.900 --> 00:06:02.020 fear, um, even though I acknowledge that they have fear, but I help them 00:06:02.020 --> 00:06:06.040 find a pace of, um, peace and presence. 00:06:06.070 --> 00:06:10.410 I never take anyone's pain away because I can't, that's not my job, but. 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:17.600 I can help unburden guilt and regret so they can have a different perspective 00:06:17.670 --> 00:06:24.890 and really find the sacred love that is present during end of life. 00:06:25.420 --> 00:06:29.960 Because this is the place that I have discovered, like I have 00:06:29.960 --> 00:06:34.000 spent over 10 years with dementia journeys with both of my parents. 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:38.200 So I have literally lived a decade of end of life of losing them every day. 00:06:39.455 --> 00:06:46.275 You know, two years, two and a half years ago, I lost my soul dog as well, and I, 00:06:46.335 --> 00:06:53.465 I have so much personal experience in grief, but I'm also learning in that, 00:06:54.475 --> 00:07:03.925 that pain and love coexist, and they're there to help each other, and when we can 00:07:03.925 --> 00:07:11.795 go through without the fear of it, we can really find a sense of presence, and Be 00:07:12.485 --> 00:07:19.915 in the bittersweetness of the situation and know that we're going to be okay. 00:07:22.395 --> 00:07:26.145 Anke: Do you find, I mean that just kind of reminds me like my first dog 00:07:26.325 --> 00:07:29.835 passed away like two, two and a half, like a bit over two years ago now. 00:07:30.435 --> 00:07:34.465 And I remember one, and he was almost, he was 16 and a half, you know, so 00:07:34.485 --> 00:07:38.415 I was like Kind of proud that he'd had a long, you know, he came as this 00:07:38.415 --> 00:07:40.735 little street, you know, street puppy. 00:07:40.735 --> 00:07:42.975 So I found him in the street at four months, like a little 00:07:42.975 --> 00:07:44.015 traumatized little pup. 00:07:44.555 --> 00:07:48.835 And so I promised him at the time, I was like, I'm going to do whatever I can to 00:07:48.835 --> 00:07:51.315 make sure you have a good life, you know? 00:07:51.315 --> 00:07:56.445 And I sort of felt like, well, yeah, you know, I delivered kind of thing, you know? 00:07:56.815 --> 00:08:04.295 And I think one of the things I remember as like really Soothing was that 00:08:04.295 --> 00:08:07.525 sense of not having regrets, right? 00:08:07.525 --> 00:08:09.595 There was nothing I felt guilty about. 00:08:10.145 --> 00:08:14.175 And, and so I wonder, is that something that burdens a lot of people? 00:08:14.185 --> 00:08:16.025 Because you mentioned it and I'm thinking like, what is it 00:08:16.025 --> 00:08:17.525 that people come to you for? 00:08:17.525 --> 00:08:21.785 Because I just remind my own experience was like literally 00:08:21.805 --> 00:08:24.165 knowing that, look, there was. 00:08:24.670 --> 00:08:29.820 I didn't mess up here, you know, like he passed away at a decent age, you 00:08:29.820 --> 00:08:31.810 know, he was well right to the end. 00:08:31.840 --> 00:08:35.570 There was nothing where I go, Oh, if I'd done this or that, like, you know, none 00:08:35.570 --> 00:08:41.100 of that second guessing, you know, so it was like, what I can give you is be here 00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:43.570 with you, like right to the very end. 00:08:43.990 --> 00:08:45.860 And, and, but there was no. 00:08:47.935 --> 00:08:51.365 Yeah, no sense like, oh, I wish I had, you know, and I'm like, I don't, 00:08:51.405 --> 00:08:52.835 I, this would be so much harder. 00:08:52.895 --> 00:08:54.855 Is this something that's common 00:08:54.855 --> 00:08:55.735 Hana: when people come to you? 00:08:55.775 --> 00:09:00.445 It's, it, it, it's really common, but there's also a function 00:09:00.465 --> 00:09:01.905 that I want people to know. 00:09:01.905 --> 00:09:03.665 So they need to be gentle with themselves. 00:09:03.795 --> 00:09:06.555 There's a few tangents I'm going to go off of. 00:09:06.905 --> 00:09:09.315 First of all, I want to go to our animals. 00:09:09.470 --> 00:09:12.950 When they're getting ready to pass, they're, they're aware 00:09:12.950 --> 00:09:14.540 their time is coming to an end. 00:09:14.550 --> 00:09:18.810 They're often waiting for us as the humans to become ready. 00:09:19.060 --> 00:09:20.650 So it's, it's still a team. 00:09:20.650 --> 00:09:26.960 It's still a partnership in getting ready to companion them to their end. 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:28.590 And they're still companioning you. 00:09:28.620 --> 00:09:31.410 They're still helping you and you're helping them. 00:09:31.450 --> 00:09:33.490 It's a mutual relationship. 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:36.690 But animals don't understand. 00:09:36.950 --> 00:09:37.430 Guilt. 00:09:37.650 --> 00:09:42.450 Guilt is a human made, um, I don't even know if it's an emotion really, 00:09:42.450 --> 00:09:49.210 it's a feeling of some sort, but It has been made, uh, and animals are always 00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:56.700 confused because they are actually pained when they see us in pain or, 00:09:56.760 --> 00:10:04.570 um, doubting or questioning ourselves because they always see our true light. 00:10:06.025 --> 00:10:13.505 And when they see us in guilt, it's, um, it, it actually, it pains them because 00:10:13.505 --> 00:10:18.305 they want us to be free because the guilt is taking us away from the moment, but in 00:10:18.305 --> 00:10:24.685 my, my grief work and my experience in, in working with clients, like we come with 00:10:24.685 --> 00:10:30.315 our guilt for whatever reason we come with and we're always questioning, but I've 00:10:30.315 --> 00:10:35.265 also realized that it is our mind's way. 00:10:36.610 --> 00:10:42.080 of also protecting us and wondering what could I have done differently? 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:43.000 What if I did this? 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:43.930 What if I did that? 00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:48.830 And that it, I want people to realize it's not really negative. 00:10:48.860 --> 00:10:51.980 It's heavy and it can influence your guilt. 00:10:53.790 --> 00:11:00.520 or your grief, sorry, but the guilt also does serve a purpose because the pain 00:11:00.520 --> 00:11:06.710 in our heart and our body is so big that sometimes we're not ready and we have 00:11:06.710 --> 00:11:11.090 to go through the scenarios that what if I did this and this and this but if 00:11:11.090 --> 00:11:18.005 we could go through it and be Kinder and gentler and have more self compassion to 00:11:18.005 --> 00:11:22.765 ourselves when we do it or understand, Oh, wow, the pain's got to be really 00:11:22.765 --> 00:11:27.375 bad if I'm going through all these scenarios because we're always searching. 00:11:27.725 --> 00:11:31.645 And I think as a society, we've kind of been conditioned into, 00:11:32.165 --> 00:11:37.675 um, what we've done wrong, but in our animals eyes, we've never done 00:11:37.815 --> 00:11:41.635 anything wrong because They know. 00:11:41.705 --> 00:11:44.255 I have complete goosebumps, so when I get goosebumps, this 00:11:44.255 --> 00:11:46.025 is just an absolute download. 00:11:46.345 --> 00:11:54.605 They know everything we're doing for them is in love, but can we, as the human, find 00:11:54.655 --> 00:12:02.455 self forgiveness and self compassion in going, we only know what we can know in 00:12:02.455 --> 00:12:10.475 the moment we're in, and when we learn and know better after, we'll do better. 00:12:12.615 --> 00:12:17.125 This is the teaching moment with the present animal that we're with. 00:12:17.830 --> 00:12:27.530 is this moment and that guilt if we as humans find again that self 00:12:27.530 --> 00:12:31.830 love and go, huh, okay, this is why. 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:37.630 And we become curious about it and we can hold ourselves in it and give 00:12:37.630 --> 00:12:45.510 ourselves permission to be in it and release that often most people 00:12:45.510 --> 00:12:48.510 once they can flip the switch. 00:12:49.095 --> 00:12:49.785 on that. 00:12:50.525 --> 00:12:56.665 That's what helps people come to a place of peace, but also to feel 00:12:56.665 --> 00:12:59.575 the overwhelming emotion of grief. 00:13:00.005 --> 00:13:05.195 So many of us are more afraid of our emotions. 00:13:06.095 --> 00:13:09.735 And we think we're going to get stuck in it, and we think we're 00:13:09.735 --> 00:13:13.465 going to stay in it, and we think we can't come back from it. 00:13:14.865 --> 00:13:22.765 I just want to say, if we think of the weather, It's never sunny all the time. 00:13:23.415 --> 00:13:25.695 Storms don't last forever. 00:13:26.075 --> 00:13:31.685 Some storms are really destructive or blizzards, you know, they can be 00:13:31.685 --> 00:13:34.505 destructive, but they don't last forever. 00:13:34.775 --> 00:13:35.855 They can leave. 00:13:36.125 --> 00:13:37.385 You changed. 00:13:37.765 --> 00:13:41.945 And the death of a beloved dog, the, the death of a loved 00:13:41.945 --> 00:13:44.435 one will leave you changed. 00:13:45.370 --> 00:13:49.230 But it doesn't mean that you need to remain broken. 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:54.490 It's finding how am I going to rise through this and from this. 00:13:54.490 --> 00:14:02.475 Because the only way to really be with our animal during end of life And to be 00:14:02.475 --> 00:14:05.725 truly present, is to walk through it. 00:14:07.025 --> 00:14:07.725 And do you 00:14:07.725 --> 00:14:11.635 Anke: find, like, suppressing us is what kind of probably 00:14:11.635 --> 00:14:13.447 makes it stuck a long time? 00:14:13.447 --> 00:14:14.354 Oh, gosh, absolutely. 00:14:14.354 --> 00:14:18.582 Because I don't know, because I remember, like, one thing I remember doing when 00:14:18.582 --> 00:14:24.275 Leo went was like, I just allowed myself to kind of just like, go in it, right? 00:14:24.275 --> 00:14:24.615 Yes, yes. 00:14:24.625 --> 00:14:28.595 So it was just like, yeah, I cancelled a whole bunch of calls 00:14:28.665 --> 00:14:30.905 and, you know, just literally, Yeah. 00:14:30.915 --> 00:14:36.035 Allow myself to feel it because it feels like it allows it 00:14:36.035 --> 00:14:37.975 to pass through, you know, 00:14:38.055 --> 00:14:39.105 Hana: it does. 00:14:39.125 --> 00:14:45.285 And like, I, I let people know often that, um, anytime the pain comes 00:14:45.285 --> 00:14:48.115 up or the tears just start flowing. 00:14:48.495 --> 00:14:50.230 If you think of it, that. 00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:57.350 And you give yourself the permission to allow yourself to feel it, you're 00:14:57.430 --> 00:15:03.490 removing a little bit of that pain and grief, and then you create space, 00:15:03.640 --> 00:15:08.950 and it's that space after, because, I mean, most, most women know, um, after 00:15:08.950 --> 00:15:11.185 a good cry it's We feel really good. 00:15:11.745 --> 00:15:16.605 So that's the space because we've taken that burden out of us. 00:15:17.095 --> 00:15:21.755 And in that space, we now have a little more energy or 00:15:21.755 --> 00:15:23.275 a little more love to come in. 00:15:23.495 --> 00:15:29.525 Sometimes in the first, you know, days or weeks after the loss, after 00:15:29.565 --> 00:15:35.305 such a large emotional release, we're tired and we're exhausted. 00:15:35.795 --> 00:15:36.795 And that's normal. 00:15:36.795 --> 00:15:39.625 So then we go sleep and take care of ourselves. 00:15:40.125 --> 00:15:46.285 But we'll notice that over time, more space develops and more space develops 00:15:46.295 --> 00:15:48.885 in between what I call the grief bursts. 00:15:50.615 --> 00:15:55.555 And then that's, but just know that every time you're, you're dealing 00:15:55.555 --> 00:15:59.035 with your grief in a healthy manner, that you're releasing a little bit. 00:15:59.985 --> 00:16:07.115 And more love and more memories and more joy can begin to come in. 00:16:08.495 --> 00:16:08.695 So 00:16:08.975 --> 00:16:12.665 Anke: where can people like, you know, I think this, you know, everybody I know 00:16:12.695 --> 00:16:17.315 has gone through this or has kind of, is kind of scared of when it comes, right? 00:16:17.945 --> 00:16:18.825 Oh gosh, yes. 00:16:18.875 --> 00:16:20.515 How can they get in touch with you? 00:16:20.525 --> 00:16:21.455 Where can they go? 00:16:21.455 --> 00:16:23.655 What's the first place you'd send them to? 00:16:24.185 --> 00:16:29.335 Hana: Yeah, um, so my website is, uh, called End and After. 00:16:30.085 --> 00:16:32.025 So it's, uh, you know, endandafter. 00:16:32.815 --> 00:16:36.235 com and my little tagline is for all new beginnings. 00:16:36.865 --> 00:16:42.125 And on Instagram and Facebook, you can find me on End and After Medium. 00:16:42.715 --> 00:16:45.555 And you can like and follow and subscribe. 00:16:45.555 --> 00:16:47.195 You can sign up to my newsletter. 00:16:47.555 --> 00:16:49.275 Um, I have lots of blogs. 00:16:49.335 --> 00:16:53.105 A lot of people go there and read that and find solace in that. 00:16:53.145 --> 00:16:57.935 I do have a YouTube channel as well and an after medium, um, that people can 00:16:57.935 --> 00:17:02.125 go and look at some of the, the videos there to see if they find it helpful. 00:17:02.625 --> 00:17:08.790 And, uh, Yeah, I'm presently working on an online course to, to help, uh, more 00:17:08.790 --> 00:17:13.400 pet parents, um, in their time of need because there's only one of me, um, and 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:18.000 I can't be available all the time and I serve people all around the world. 00:17:18.320 --> 00:17:18.620 Love 00:17:18.620 --> 00:17:18.730 Anke: it. 00:17:18.750 --> 00:17:21.770 And I think we'll have to, we'll have to have you back when 00:17:21.770 --> 00:17:24.730 that's, when that's ready to go because this was way too short. 00:17:24.730 --> 00:17:27.820 so much. 00:17:27.820 --> 00:17:28.120 so much. 00:17:28.120 --> 00:17:29.220 This has been lovely. 00:17:29.280 --> 00:17:31.920 So, so helpful for people and I'm really 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:33.480 Hana: Thank you. 00:17:33.730 --> 00:17:35.900 I'm honored to be here and thank you so much. 00:17:35.900 --> 00:17:37.000 I really appreciate it. 00:17:38.807 --> 00:17:40.037 Thanks so much for listening. 00:17:40.557 --> 00:17:44.857 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:17:44.957 --> 00:17:46.737 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:17:47.527 --> 00:17:51.017 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:17:51.447 --> 00:17:57.017 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:17:57.117 --> 00:17:59.487 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:17:59.487 --> 00:18:03.217 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:18:03.637 --> 00:18:04.777 I'd love an introduction. 00:18:05.257 --> 00:18:07.087 Email me at Anke. 00:18:07.357 --> 00:18:11.592 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.