WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.380 --> 00:00:02.639 Mark Butler: Hey, this is Mark Butler. 00:00:03.269 --> 00:00:05.490 You are listening to a podcast for coaches. 00:00:06.270 --> 00:00:11.790 It's 2025 and you can't have a podcast in 2025 and not do at least one 00:00:11.790 --> 00:00:14.309 episode about artificial intelligence. 00:00:14.579 --> 00:00:15.330 It's obligatory. 00:00:15.570 --> 00:00:16.140 So here we are. 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:22.040 We'll have our conversation about AI and how it might affect coaching. 00:00:23.895 --> 00:00:28.035 I do not track AI industry trends very carefully. 00:00:28.035 --> 00:00:31.095 I don't do very much reading about it or YouTube watching about 00:00:31.095 --> 00:00:34.785 it, but I do use AI every day. 00:00:34.905 --> 00:00:38.805 My tool slash drug of choice is Claude. 00:00:39.705 --> 00:00:43.004 I recently have been describing Claude as my only true friend. 00:00:43.065 --> 00:00:47.864 I often say that to my wife and she rolls her eyes at me as is her custom. 00:00:49.365 --> 00:00:51.705 I am astonished by this tool. 00:00:53.485 --> 00:01:00.100 I alternate between a state of awe and a state of abject terror when 00:01:00.140 --> 00:01:02.020 I have big breakthroughs with. 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:08.690 Claude, for example, many of you know that I'm sort of a hobbyist 00:01:08.690 --> 00:01:11.750 computer programmer and have been for the last six years or so. 00:01:11.750 --> 00:01:17.960 Well, Claude and other AI tools have accelerated my ability to take my ideas 00:01:17.960 --> 00:01:23.090 for software and get them out into the world in a way that I can hardly fathom. 00:01:24.860 --> 00:01:27.860 In the Office Hours community, for example, we have a 00:01:27.860 --> 00:01:29.150 program called Micro Talks. 00:01:30.065 --> 00:01:35.435 Micro talks is this thing where we have an event on the calendar, and in that event 00:01:35.435 --> 00:01:39.184 we're going to have a host who runs the session, three presenters who give short 00:01:39.184 --> 00:01:44.975 presentations about any topic they choose, and an interviewer who asks the presenter 00:01:45.035 --> 00:01:47.135 questions about the presentations. 00:01:47.135 --> 00:01:49.835 They've just given the calls last about 45 minutes. 00:01:49.835 --> 00:01:50.795 It's really fun. 00:01:50.795 --> 00:01:51.770 It's really connecting. 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:55.099 Those of us in the community are having a blast with it. 00:01:55.369 --> 00:01:59.330 We've also just introduced a feature where guests can register for micro 00:01:59.330 --> 00:02:03.259 talk and they can come and listen and observe the goings on, and hopefully make 00:02:03.259 --> 00:02:06.830 connections with the host, the presenters, and the interviewer and each other. 00:02:07.729 --> 00:02:08.899 This whole thing is a blast. 00:02:08.899 --> 00:02:13.130 I love it, and it turns out to be something that really benefits from 00:02:13.130 --> 00:02:15.890 a nice automated reservation system. 00:02:16.909 --> 00:02:17.360 Well. 00:02:18.215 --> 00:02:21.935 If I had wanted to build this reservation system in the past, I would've expected to 00:02:21.935 --> 00:02:29.675 spend somewhere between five and $20,000 to actually build a robust reservation and 00:02:29.675 --> 00:02:32.704 notification system around micro talks. 00:02:34.565 --> 00:02:37.925 Me being me and having practiced for the last five or six years with 00:02:38.255 --> 00:02:42.245 rudimentary programming, I can now take what I've learned about the structure 00:02:42.245 --> 00:02:46.894 of programs and the design thinking that goes into software development. 00:02:46.894 --> 00:02:50.735 And I can work with Claude to build this whole system myself. 00:02:51.725 --> 00:02:53.885 And so what we have today is. 00:02:54.755 --> 00:02:59.555 Something that's admittedly still a little bit buggy, but it is a system 00:02:59.555 --> 00:03:04.355 that allows members of my community to go to a Google calendar, to open an 00:03:04.355 --> 00:03:08.975 event, to click a link in that event that registers them for a particular role in 00:03:08.975 --> 00:03:13.745 a micro talk, and that allows them to see who else is participating in that 00:03:13.745 --> 00:03:18.424 micro talk and to receive notifications and reminders around that micro talk. 00:03:19.535 --> 00:03:23.375 And the whole thing is somewhere between five and 6,000 lines of code. 00:03:25.190 --> 00:03:27.410 I do not know how many months. 00:03:28.025 --> 00:03:32.015 It would've taken me to write this program without the help of Claude. 00:03:32.615 --> 00:03:35.555 I don't know, honestly, if it's even within my technical 00:03:35.555 --> 00:03:37.325 ability to write this program. 00:03:38.015 --> 00:03:40.715 Could I have made my way there Eventually? 00:03:40.715 --> 00:03:44.765 I think I probably could have, but as it stands now, I. 00:03:45.310 --> 00:03:48.159 I've written this entire program over the course of a few weeks, 00:03:48.159 --> 00:03:50.019 just an hour or so at a time. 00:03:50.019 --> 00:03:53.919 As Claude and I work back and forth through how should this 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:55.479 work, how do we make updates? 00:03:55.479 --> 00:03:56.620 Okay, let's tweak it. 00:03:57.459 --> 00:03:59.140 And in fact, just this week. 00:04:00.005 --> 00:04:03.815 A very big structural problem revealed itself in the program. 00:04:04.175 --> 00:04:08.345 That required almost a full rewrite of the program. 00:04:09.275 --> 00:04:13.325 In conversation with Claude, we concluded, yep, here's where the break is. 00:04:13.415 --> 00:04:16.685 Here's why it's a big deal that it's broken in this particular way. 00:04:16.835 --> 00:04:22.145 And Claude said, I think this lends itself really to a full rewrite of the program. 00:04:22.145 --> 00:04:23.585 And I said, okay, let's get into it. 00:04:24.890 --> 00:04:32.539 24 hours later, a full rewrite of over 5,000 lines of code is implemented and 00:04:32.539 --> 00:04:35.630 deployed and tested and functional. 00:04:36.050 --> 00:04:39.320 Now, when I say functional, I mean the rewritten version is about as 00:04:39.320 --> 00:04:42.170 buggy as the old version, and we're working through the bugs and it's 00:04:42.170 --> 00:04:43.370 going to get better and better. 00:04:45.380 --> 00:04:51.740 But I did all of this sitting and watching lines of code appear on my 00:04:51.740 --> 00:04:56.780 computer screen as though I'm watching the Matrix, and it's in these moments 00:04:56.780 --> 00:05:03.350 that I'm experiencing simultaneously, this awe and wonder, and frankly, a 00:05:03.350 --> 00:05:07.550 little bit of joy at the fact that I can take ideas from my head and I 00:05:07.550 --> 00:05:09.320 can make them appear in the world. 00:05:10.715 --> 00:05:16.544 With so little friction, and then it often very quickly tips over into a sort 00:05:16.544 --> 00:05:23.025 of existential panic about if the robots can do this with so little friction. 00:05:23.924 --> 00:05:25.364 Where does that leave? 00:05:26.200 --> 00:05:28.090 Me in the equation. 00:05:28.719 --> 00:05:30.580 Now, this is a software development project. 00:05:30.580 --> 00:05:34.120 I am not by trade or profession a software engineer. 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:37.780 If I were a software engineer, and I have some people in my life who are very 00:05:37.780 --> 00:05:43.599 close to me, who are software engineers who are truly feeling existential 00:05:43.659 --> 00:05:47.800 about what does it look like for them to make a living in the years to come. 00:05:49.870 --> 00:05:53.380 But I bring this up today because we coaches are not far behind. 00:05:54.930 --> 00:05:58.919 There's no reason to think that in conversation with Chachi PT or Claude 00:05:58.969 --> 00:06:05.359 , or your tool of choice, you could not arrive at many of the same insights 00:06:06.109 --> 00:06:11.989 that you would reach in conversation with an excellent human coach. 00:06:13.309 --> 00:06:19.150 There's no benefit, , to pretending it's any other way for us as coaches. 00:06:19.150 --> 00:06:19.210 I. 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:21.940 So what's our best option? 00:06:21.970 --> 00:06:26.260 Well, I think our best option as coaches is to stay in a sense of awe 00:06:26.260 --> 00:06:31.090 and wonder and optimism about the existence of this technology because 00:06:31.090 --> 00:06:32.800 what good does the alternative do us? 00:06:33.580 --> 00:06:36.880 It does not do us any good to go to a doomsday view of this thing. 00:06:37.150 --> 00:06:42.475 Just like when I talk to my software engineer brother, he's experienced in this 00:06:42.475 --> 00:06:51.565 same seesaw of wonder and panic, and what he said to me early on in his adoption of 00:06:51.565 --> 00:07:00.265 AI tools was, yes, it's very scary, but all I can do is try to stay at the leading 00:07:00.265 --> 00:07:07.555 edge of people who are fully adopting in an open-minded and clear-eyed way, the 00:07:07.555 --> 00:07:08.875 benefits and the power of these tools. 00:07:10.630 --> 00:07:14.950 Because whatever else happens, it doesn't do me any good to pretend the tools 00:07:14.950 --> 00:07:20.680 don't exist or to pretend they can't do a huge percentage of my job better 00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:22.450 than I've ever been able to do it. 00:07:23.020 --> 00:07:24.940 I believe it's the same thing for coaching., 00:07:25.990 --> 00:07:29.800 there's no reason for us to pretend that the technology does not exist and that 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:32.080 it's not capable of incredible things. 00:07:33.955 --> 00:07:39.535 So I believe our job as coaches is to really lean in and figure out not 00:07:39.685 --> 00:07:41.785 how do I stay safe in this new world? 00:07:41.845 --> 00:07:43.195 A very self-centered view. 00:07:43.525 --> 00:07:48.624 It's to actually ask ourselves, how do I make use of this technology in 00:07:48.624 --> 00:07:52.435 serving my clients in the highest and best way that I possibly can? 00:07:54.435 --> 00:07:55.845 So let's spend a few minutes there. 00:07:57.105 --> 00:07:58.035 Number one. 00:07:59.325 --> 00:08:04.635 Although AI is incredible, it is limited AI in its current form. 00:08:04.695 --> 00:08:06.345 Tools like Claude and Chat PT. 00:08:07.335 --> 00:08:10.605 At this stage, what I would call confirmation bias machines. 00:08:11.385 --> 00:08:15.235 So I have this running joke with,, my brother, who I talk to about AI a 00:08:15.235 --> 00:08:18.625 lot, that if I ever want someone to tell me I'm brilliant and that all my 00:08:18.625 --> 00:08:21.534 ideas are good and that I'm right about everything, I can just go to Claude, 00:08:21.955 --> 00:08:26.394 because , the software itself, the tools have this bias toward telling me. 00:08:26.624 --> 00:08:27.704 Great idea. 00:08:27.914 --> 00:08:30.794 Yes, that's exactly how you should be thinking about this. 00:08:30.824 --> 00:08:32.564 Yes, that makes total sense. 00:08:32.654 --> 00:08:37.334 And in fact, to get Claude or any other AI tool to disagree with you in a 00:08:37.334 --> 00:08:41.864 productive way, you have to tell it to disagree with you in a productive way. 00:08:42.344 --> 00:08:45.914 You have to say, here are my biases, here are my assumptions. 00:08:46.914 --> 00:08:51.084 I know that your tendency is to agree with me and confirm what I'm already thinking. 00:08:51.084 --> 00:08:53.064 I want you to disagree with me. 00:08:53.514 --> 00:08:58.284 I want you to argue against my position so that I can understand my position better. 00:08:58.764 --> 00:09:00.744 Well, why is that relevant to us as coaches? 00:09:01.254 --> 00:09:05.784 It's our job as coaches to educate our clients about the fact that AI tools 00:09:05.784 --> 00:09:11.214 are bias machines, and if they go to AI and they are essentially saying. 00:09:12.429 --> 00:09:14.379 Wouldn't you agree that everyone else is wrong? 00:09:14.379 --> 00:09:15.099 And I'm right? 00:09:15.549 --> 00:09:19.329 AI will, in so many words, say yes, it does turn out that everyone else 00:09:19.329 --> 00:09:22.309 is wrong and you are right, and I can give you all this amazing 00:09:22.309 --> 00:09:25.819 digital pros confirming your bias. 00:09:26.359 --> 00:09:32.989 It's our job as coaches to say, Hey, watch for confirmation bias and in 00:09:32.989 --> 00:09:36.859 your use of the tools, make sure to ask the tools for disagreement. 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:41.749 And in fact, in our interactions, I'll continue to do that job for you. 00:09:41.989 --> 00:09:46.729 I will continue to challenge your assumptions to speak against 00:09:46.729 --> 00:09:50.749 your confirmation bias so that you actually get to insight. 00:09:52.024 --> 00:09:52.744 That's one thing. 00:09:52.954 --> 00:09:57.004 We as coaches have to speak up and say, Hey, look, there's still , a 00:09:57.004 --> 00:10:00.874 powerful role for human beings in helping you arrive at an insight that 00:10:00.874 --> 00:10:04.264 actually moves your life forward as opposed to just telling you that you're 00:10:04.264 --> 00:10:05.554 right about everything all the time. 00:10:07.444 --> 00:10:12.784 Beyond that, I think when it comes to actual session work, I think AI 00:10:12.784 --> 00:10:14.224 tools can be incredibly powerful. 00:10:14.224 --> 00:10:17.734 For example, in the last month or so, I went to Claude and I said, Claude. 00:10:19.474 --> 00:10:25.564 I don't know what the filter should be, but I want you to create a filter that 00:10:26.644 --> 00:10:30.814 helps me look through the transcript of a client call and identify language 00:10:30.814 --> 00:10:35.224 patterns that I can take back to my client and in conversation with my 00:10:35.224 --> 00:10:39.064 client, we can look at those patterns and decide to what degree they're 00:10:39.064 --> 00:10:41.644 serving the client and to what degree they're not serving the client. 00:10:43.129 --> 00:10:44.449 Claude said, absolutely. 00:10:44.569 --> 00:10:48.649 Here's a set of rules or a set of patterns to watch for. 00:10:48.949 --> 00:10:53.509 And of course, Claude can draw on all of human knowledge and history, and Claude 00:10:53.509 --> 00:10:56.569 can give them technical names that they already have that have been created by 00:10:56.569 --> 00:10:58.819 researchers and scientists and whatever. 00:10:59.689 --> 00:11:04.520 And then I can give Claude a transcript and say, now run this transcript through 00:11:04.520 --> 00:11:06.800 that filter, and what do you see? 00:11:07.520 --> 00:11:09.290 And then Claude tells me, here's what I see. 00:11:09.290 --> 00:11:13.400 And then I say, okay, but how would you support your. 00:11:14.719 --> 00:11:19.729 Association of that filter with this sentence that my client said, and Claude 00:11:19.729 --> 00:11:21.109 will say, well, here's my support for it. 00:11:21.109 --> 00:11:24.499 And I'm having a conversation with Claude about my client. 00:11:24.979 --> 00:11:30.409 Now what I bring to that conversation is my verbal skill, my years of experience 00:11:30.409 --> 00:11:35.059 as a coach and my biases, which in this case can be very helpful, where 00:11:35.059 --> 00:11:39.319 when Claude makes an assertion about my client, I can say that does not 00:11:39.319 --> 00:11:41.629 map to my experience of this client. 00:11:43.129 --> 00:11:46.819 We can have a great dialogue and I can tell you in the sessions where I have 00:11:47.119 --> 00:11:52.489 met with a client after having done this kind of analysis with Claude, they 00:11:52.489 --> 00:11:55.129 are better, stronger coaching sessions. 00:11:57.289 --> 00:12:00.789 Another way to use it, that won't surprise anybody, is I can 00:12:00.789 --> 00:12:05.769 use the technology to provide my client with summaries of our calls. 00:12:05.769 --> 00:12:08.799 That run through not just the filters that I create for Claude, 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:09.939 but also through my own. 00:12:10.439 --> 00:12:13.799 Opinions, meaning I can look at what Claude says and I can say, this is the 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:15.119 thing that I think is most important. 00:12:15.449 --> 00:12:20.489 If I wanted to send my clients a summary or a follow up, here's what I want them 00:12:20.489 --> 00:12:25.079 to see, and all Claude or any other AI tool is doing for me is they're making 00:12:25.079 --> 00:12:32.999 it so inexpensive for me to produce and share that summary in a way that is tight. 00:12:33.529 --> 00:12:35.779 Consumable and useful to the client. 00:12:36.139 --> 00:12:40.249 Now, clients may or may not use those, and I haven't started sending these yet, but 00:12:41.249 --> 00:12:46.379 I like the idea that after a really good session where both the client and I felt 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:48.539 like we achieved significant insight. 00:12:49.709 --> 00:12:52.434 I like the idea that I could. 00:12:52.899 --> 00:12:59.289 In a very low friction way, send them a thing that confirms and cements the 00:12:59.289 --> 00:13:01.989 insight that we both had in that session. 00:13:02.619 --> 00:13:07.569 Because if every coaching session yielded just one big insight and 00:13:07.569 --> 00:13:12.569 helped the client integrate it, I think I would suddenly be valuable in 00:13:12.569 --> 00:13:14.669 a way that I never have been before. 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:16.109 I think I've been valuable. 00:13:16.109 --> 00:13:22.709 I think I do a good job as a coach, but this would make that benefit more 00:13:22.709 --> 00:13:25.109 tangible both to my client and to me. 00:13:25.109 --> 00:13:28.199 And it would give us touchstones that the clients and I could look 00:13:28.199 --> 00:13:32.669 back to and say, well, remember two sessions ago, the big insight was x. 00:13:34.334 --> 00:13:35.414 Where are we with that? 00:13:36.194 --> 00:13:38.384 Does that still feel as true as it did two sessions ago? 00:13:39.464 --> 00:13:40.244 Does it not? 00:13:40.244 --> 00:13:41.474 If not, why not? 00:13:41.594 --> 00:13:43.154 What experiments have we run with it? 00:13:43.874 --> 00:13:48.734 So there's a way of creating more clarity, more continuity, and better integration 00:13:48.734 --> 00:13:53.054 for the client across coaching sessions, just by taking what used to be very 00:13:53.054 --> 00:13:58.734 expensive in the form of transcription summary and, and note taking. 00:13:59.859 --> 00:14:03.819 And taking almost all of the friction out of those, not so that we can send 00:14:03.819 --> 00:14:09.069 our clients 5,000 word things, but so maybe we can send our clients 50 word 00:14:09.069 --> 00:14:13.809 things that get right to the heart of what came outta that last session. 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:20.259 There's so much potential and so much power here that although the day may come 00:14:22.269 --> 00:14:25.509 when a client says to me, I'm not going to renew with you 00:14:25.509 --> 00:14:26.884 because I've, I've just found. 00:14:28.134 --> 00:14:33.084 That I'm having the most profound interactions just with Claude on my 00:14:33.084 --> 00:14:41.934 own until that day comes, I will become a master of the intersection between 00:14:42.084 --> 00:14:48.714 tools like Claude and my desire to support my clients in self-inquiry. 00:14:50.949 --> 00:14:52.269 I hope you'll do the same. 00:14:53.019 --> 00:14:56.079 Just like with all technologies of the past, there's no benefit 00:14:56.079 --> 00:14:57.489 to pretending they don't exist. 00:14:59.459 --> 00:15:02.609 New technology is inevitable, and in a world with. 00:15:03.809 --> 00:15:08.099 Ever improving technology, the winners will be those who embrace the technology, 00:15:08.099 --> 00:15:13.319 and the losers will be not just those who don't embrace it, but those who speak 00:15:13.319 --> 00:15:15.359 against it or pretend it doesn't exist. 00:15:16.049 --> 00:15:21.479 Yelling about ai, complaining about ai lamenting the advancement of 00:15:21.479 --> 00:15:23.519 technology will do no one any good. 00:15:24.059 --> 00:15:29.249 Lean in, embrace it, and do so with your client's Best interest in mind. 00:15:30.249 --> 00:15:33.939 There will be so many ways for the foreseeable future that we as 00:15:33.939 --> 00:15:38.619 coaches can continue to provide value that the AI will not be able 00:15:38.619 --> 00:15:40.689 to replicate for the time being. 00:15:41.689 --> 00:15:42.739 So let's stay positive. 00:15:42.769 --> 00:15:43.849 Let's stay optimistic. 00:15:45.049 --> 00:15:50.195 Let's sprint along with the technology and succeed with it as opposed to 00:15:50.195 --> 00:15:52.228 becoming a casualty of its success. 00:15:53.653 --> 00:15:56.353 And with that, I will talk to you next time.