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Bryant Gillespie: All right, guys.

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Welcome to the next edition of
the better sign shop podcast

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we're down a team member today.

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Sign shop Yoda is, I don't
know, galaxy far, far.

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Something like that.

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I don't like that either.

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We're missing Peter today.

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So it's just Mike, the sign burrito
king of California, Riley and myself.

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we do have a special guest joining us
today a little later in the episode.

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So I'm excited for that.

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but to kick things off, Mike,
what's new with you, man.

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Michael Riley: Oh, not too much.

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been a busy week for me.

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No progress on the house this week.

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My, catalytic converters
were stolen off of my truck.

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So it's been in the garage,
so I haven't been able to

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Bryant Gillespie: are

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you

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Michael Riley: anything.

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Oh, that's serious.

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Yeah.

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It's awesome.

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Yeah.

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Meth heads are a problem in Oregon.

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Everything you hear on the news is true.

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Bryant Gillespie: Like just in your
driveway, somebody came and in the middle

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of the night, stole your catalytic.

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Michael Riley: no.

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So it's been like a hundred degrees
here for the last couple weeks.

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It's been like an insane heat wave.

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And, I, for this remodeling project
for our house, I just bought like a

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18 year old beater Nissan frontier
that I could use just as a work truck.

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And, it overheated in this a hundred
degree, whether I was hauling

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top soil in it, it overheated
and left me alongside the road.

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I just had my wife come pick me
up and I left it there thinking,

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okay, it'll cool down overnight.

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I'll come get it in the morning.

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we live out in the country,
so I figured it'd be safe.

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next morning, somebody actually,
they stole my catalytic converters.

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They cut my fuel line and siphoned
all the fuel outta my gas tank.

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They damaged my fuel pump in the press.

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it's four grand worth
of damage to this truck.

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It's hardly worth $4,000

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Bryant Gillespie: Oh, my gosh,

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Michael Riley: and it's been at the

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Bryant Gillespie: your gas as well.

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Michael Riley: Oh yeah, dude, straight up.

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just drained.

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it was a full tank of gas too.

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And it's like bone dry now.

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but yeah, no, they did.

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They did $4,000 of damage to this truck.

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And I don't even think the
truck's worth that much.

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And so right now I'm just waiting
on the insurance company to pay me.

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I haven't had a vehicle in a week and
a half, so no work on the house, which

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is fine, cuz it really sucks during
landscaping at a hundred degrees.

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So I'm not, I guess I'm not
complaining that much, but so

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that's,  what's going on in my life.

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How about

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Bryant Gillespie: man that's some
redneck West Virginia shit right there.

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Michael Riley: Oh, it's rampant out here
in Oregon, like every night on the news.

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There's some new article about
catalytic converter thefts and like

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the new cottage industry, like anybody
who has a welder around here now is

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like making rebar cages to, to weld
over people's catalytic converters.

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So people don't steal.

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'em like, it's like becoming
a hot industry in Portland

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Bryant Gillespie: us crazy with

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Michael Riley: yeah.

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Yeah.

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Bryant Gillespie: next
business idea right there.

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Michael Riley: I know, I, I had.

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Bryant Gillespie: cages.

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Michael Riley: Yeah, it's nuts.

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I had to call and file a police
report for the insurance claim on it.

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And the Sheriff's deputy that I talked
to he's you're like the fifth one

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today that I've had to do this for.

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He's it's pretty much, all I do is
just gotta let converter reports, man.

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It's just what you signed up
for in the police academy.

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I'm sure.

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yeah.

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It's awesome.

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Yeah.

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How's how's your week been?

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Bryant Gillespie: Well, I think the
last episode I mentioned the previous

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week, the babysitter was sick.

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the babysitter is on vacation this week.

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So, another lovely week of having all
the kids at home, driving my wife crazy.

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other than that, we're getting ready
to travel out of town over the weekend.

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So we're looking forward to that.

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We're headed, to Pittsburgh
to visit my wife's.

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gonna

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Michael Riley: Pittsburgh's
an awesome city.

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Bryant Gillespie: yeah.

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I used to live up there for a time.

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but yeah, looking forward to that.

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Michael Riley: you gotta go to Mente
brothers and get a big, pastrami sandwich.

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Bryant Gillespie: A big sandwich.

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Yeah.

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I gotta make sure I keep
with the dad bod here.

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Michael Riley: Yeah.

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Gotta work.

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Bryant Gillespie: Yeah,
I do like per manes.

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there's a lot of great
breweries up there too.

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So I might try to take in some of that.

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Michael Riley: Nice.

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We'll have a safe trip.

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Bryant Gillespie: As safe as you can
be in a car with a bunch of females,

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Michael Riley: saw the video
that you posted on Facebook.

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Bryant Gillespie: but

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Michael Riley: yeah, I think
that's gonna be our next cease

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desist letter will be somebody
filing a sexist claim against you.

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Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, I did look
at the analytics on Spotify and

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it's 95% of listeners are mail.

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Hopefully we can change
that in the future.

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But yeah, that is what it is.

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It was also kinda strange that.

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it shows what music they listened
to and it was like post Malone.

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And then the rest of it was
superstar country singers.

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Michael Riley: the post
Malone doesn't make sense.

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That's an odd fit with

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Bryant Gillespie: weird.

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I don't, I've not been in a shop.

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obviously, I haven't been in very many
shops here as of late, but, I've not

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been in a shop where they're blasting
post Malone while they make signs, but

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Michael Riley: Nah, that's weird.

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What kind of music you like?

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Garth Brooks and post Malone.

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Okay.

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Bryant Gillespie: yeah.

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So let's get into the
topic today outsourcing.

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what did we title this one,
outsourcing your way to freedom?

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that one's, that's a
really ambitious title.

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I like

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Michael Riley: I like that though.

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Yeah, it's got a ring to it.

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Bryant Gillespie: Yeah.

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That's gonna sell some
tickets, sell some seats.

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today we wanna talk about
outsourcing as a tool to improve

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your business, and whatever improving
your business means for you.

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Mike, where do we wanna
start on outsourcing today?

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Michael Riley: I love outsourcing.

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I think that it is, the easiest way to
grow your business with the least amount

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of resistance and, money out of pocket.

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it's a great way for any small shop to,

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greatly expand their product
offering without having to take

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on a huge amount of overhead or.

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New employees or, new skill sets that
you just don't have, or that don't

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in your aren't in your wheelhouse.

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I'm amazed.

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I talk to so many shops left and right
now, and I'm amazed at how many more

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shops are moving in this direction
and they're starting to focus on

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what they're really good at in house.

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and only doing that.

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And they're, the trimming back and
it seems like that's the trend right

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now is to become as lean as you can
in how focus on your core strengths

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and then outsource everything else.

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when I sold my shop going on 10 years
ago now, There were some really good

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vendors out there for certain things.

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But, it seems like

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now, The marketplace for outsource
services in this industry is huge.

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and I think you can run an entire
sign shop without ever, getting

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outta your pajamas anymore.

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If you align yourself
with the right vendors.

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it's pretty amazing.

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I'm sure there are still some pretty,
pretty gnarly vendors out there

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that aren't that great, but it seems
Anything you need in this industry.

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Now there's somebody out there
that's an expert in it that can

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wholesale it to you for, pennies on
the dollar compared to what it would

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cost you to manufacture it in house.

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So leveraging those vendors and
manufacturers, and, or would be a great

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way to, really expand into new markets
offer services or just, make your

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operation leaner and get, get rid of some
stuff that you do in house currently.

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Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, I would love
to run a side shop from my pajamas.

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That would be the dream.

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yeah, if you're like Peter, I
think he came in to, I don't know

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if it was one of the podcasts,
but he had the Hawaiian shirt on.

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So maybe you wanna run your shopping,
your pajamas or your Hawaiian shirt

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or from the beach or whatever,
that was the promise that we sold.

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in a former life, right.

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Was, Hey, do work from the beach
manager shop from wherever you're at.

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so I, I definitely feel like that is
more accessible and easier to do today.

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Why do you think that is become a trend?

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Michael Riley: I, I think technology's
gotten to a point where the.

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the project management and the
communication is pretty streamlined

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with, as good as technology is now
and systems for managing, orders

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like that and remote customers.

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and I don't know.

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I wanna say that maybe COVID has had
something to do with it, although

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that's totally anecdotal and I
don't know for sure, but I think.

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COVID has really proven to a lot of
people that you can work remotely.

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you can do a lot of things
that you don't have to be in

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your physical building to do.

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so I, I think that's opened a lot of
people's eyes to the reality that, Hey, we

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can run a sustainable profitable business.

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By just outsourcing things,
most things, everything.

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but I'm not sure I'm not, I'm
assuming it's just a combination

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of a lot of things, technology's
getting better and better.

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Equipment's getting better and people's
eyes are open to, or maybe their minds

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are open to other ways of doing things.

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Bryant Gillespie: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think COVID definitely has accelerated
that, I obviously there were some,

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there were quite a few shops that closed
during COVID or went out of business and.

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I think you've seen some consolidation.

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after that, of course we talked to
a couple shops that have actually

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grown through COVID, which was,
yeah, a nice thing to hear on

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one of those calls the other day.

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But, definitely, I think
technology is kind of the leader

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of that and, being able to.

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Coordinate with your entire team
via zoom or text or email or slack,

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definitely facilitates, working remotely.

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and I think working remotely also
goes hand in hand outsourcing.

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but yeah, shops have been
outsourcing larger projects.

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For ages.

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in our old shop.

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We didn't do any electrical stuff
or the few projects that we did,

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we would outsource to, one of
the other local electrical sign

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companies that specialized in that.

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did you guys do a lot of
outsourcing back in the day or no?

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Michael Riley: Yeah.

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Not as much as I, I would've liked to.

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I think looking back I
should have outsourced more.

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my, my shop was almost the outsource.

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Outsourcer the wholesaler.

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I did a lot of wholesale work and actually
Jeremy, our guest coming on here in

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a little bit was one of my customers.

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I used to do, a decent amount
of wide format printing for him.

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so my business model was almost to be,
the wide format vendor to, to the sign

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industry where people could outsource.

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And we did a fair amount
of business in that.

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And that's just the natural direction
that my business took, especially

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after the economic kind of crash
of 2008 and 2009, in my market,

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it became much harder to sell.

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Expensive signs, electrical
signs and, hand carve signs,

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gold leave, things like that.

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Even that's what I, that's what
I got into the industry to do.

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we definitely had to pivot pretty hard
when the economy crashed and wide format.

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Really took over and, I had all
this equipment sitting around.

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I'm like, I'd like to keep this
running, even if it's for, a

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little less money per square foot.

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So we carved out a pretty good
niche in doing a lot of wholesale,

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like rap printing and decals and.

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whatever kept the printers running and
it was profitable and it was good for us.

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If I could go back in time.

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I'd probably have one, one printer in a
house for quick turn jobs and that's it.

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it's, there's so many good wholesale
vendors out there now for anything that

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I think you'd almost be crazy to try
and get into that side of the industry

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when you can outsource it for way less
than you can produce it and house.

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so yeah, the economy was
weird, around that time for us.

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And I always struggled to
find really great vendors.

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I had a few in my back pocket
that I leaned on a lot, but,

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like I said, like there compared
to what's who's out there now.

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what's about available now.

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Like it wasn't that great.

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10, 15 years ago.

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Or I would've outsourced more.

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I I think I could have built a pretty
solid business with, like I said, in

00:11:08.835 --> 00:11:13.185
my pajamas without any employees or
equipment at all, if there were the

00:11:13.190 --> 00:11:14.535
vendors that are available today,

00:11:16.059 --> 00:11:18.409
Bryant Gillespie: Yeah,
that's an interesting point.

00:11:18.444 --> 00:11:21.706
as Mike, the most of the industry
is probably smaller shops.

00:11:21.706 --> 00:11:25.588
obviously we've got like a, quite
a big mixture of different shops

00:11:25.588 --> 00:11:28.476
within our mastermind group and
the Facebook group that we run.

00:11:28.686 --> 00:11:32.445
But, most of the shops that are probably
listening to this are probably smaller.

00:11:32.445 --> 00:11:38.312
maybe they're solo guys or
they're got 3, 4, 5, 6, 10 people.

00:11:38.353 --> 00:11:41.458
what would you recommend
for them moving forward?

00:11:41.508 --> 00:11:43.098
Speaking from past experience.

00:11:43.136 --> 00:11:45.806
I, and I think you guys
took this path as well.

00:11:45.819 --> 00:11:49.349
in the old shop, we would
just buy a piece of equipment.

00:11:49.379 --> 00:11:52.464
If we wanted to start offering,
flatbed printing, we would go

00:11:52.464 --> 00:11:55.014
out and buy the flatbed printer.

00:11:55.081 --> 00:11:57.667
and some of that was, tax
driven at the end of the year.

00:11:58.567 --> 00:12:02.873
A profit that you could either
spend or, pay a lot of taxes on it.

00:12:02.873 --> 00:12:06.803
So it was kind of, Hey, let's,
let's continue to fuel the business

00:12:06.803 --> 00:12:10.014
here, but, some of those purchases
know, we didn't really have the

00:12:10.014 --> 00:12:13.918
business to justify a a hundred
thousand dollars printer at the time.

00:12:13.976 --> 00:12:17.252
we made it work, but, definitely
wasn't a great decision.

00:12:17.882 --> 00:12:19.682
at the time, looking back.

00:12:20.065 --> 00:12:22.742
Michael Riley: Yeah, that, that was
definitely my experience too, is like

00:12:22.742 --> 00:12:25.313
you end up with equipment because you
just don't have a good source for that.

00:12:25.313 --> 00:12:27.881
that's how I ended up
with a C E T flatbed too.

00:12:27.909 --> 00:12:30.304
and that's why I'm now
bald cuz of that printer.

00:12:31.384 --> 00:12:32.044
I'm amazed.

00:12:32.044 --> 00:12:33.284
You still have hair after running one?

00:12:33.284 --> 00:12:36.001
Bryant Gillespie: I think I got like
the fourth or fifth model after you to

00:12:38.061 --> 00:12:39.591
Michael Riley: that's better
than the first one off the line.

00:12:39.591 --> 00:12:40.821
Like I got holy crap.

00:12:43.296 --> 00:12:43.956
Yeah.

00:12:44.616 --> 00:12:48.620
That's a big reason that I ended up with,
a decent amount of equipment was just

00:12:48.620 --> 00:12:52.160
because I've got customers begging me
for this product, whatever it may be.

00:12:52.610 --> 00:12:54.290
And I there's just, there's no good.

00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:55.370
There's no good sources for it.

00:12:55.370 --> 00:12:58.940
Especially like when you get into flatbed
printing and you wanna move beyond just

00:12:58.940 --> 00:13:01.580
like foam core and corrugated plastic,
and you wanna start doing some of the

00:13:01.580 --> 00:13:04.696
cool stuff with it, like printing on
fabric or, like I, I had a customer, he

00:13:04.696 --> 00:13:06.656
was a, He had a dry cleaning business.

00:13:06.661 --> 00:13:09.967
He had seven or eight locations
and they did home delivery and

00:13:09.967 --> 00:13:13.957
home pickup, and they wanted some
really cool, like in-store displays.

00:13:13.957 --> 00:13:16.837
And instead of just making it like
a retractable banner stand, we

00:13:16.837 --> 00:13:20.257
actually ran a bunch of six panel
hollow cord doors through our

00:13:20.407 --> 00:13:21.997
flatbed with their graphics on it.

00:13:21.997 --> 00:13:24.607
And we put door handles in the
whole nine yards and that was

00:13:24.607 --> 00:13:27.847
their, like their standup display
in their lobby of all their.

00:13:28.847 --> 00:13:30.780
They're, they're dry cleaning
stores advertising their

00:13:30.780 --> 00:13:31.950
home pickup and delivery.

00:13:32.670 --> 00:13:34.708
Cause like they, you just had, they give
you this bag and you're hanging on your

00:13:34.764 --> 00:13:35.136
Bryant Gillespie: gotcha.

00:13:35.376 --> 00:13:36.156
Yeah, that's pretty neat.

00:13:36.174 --> 00:13:38.634
Michael Riley: so it was like, it was
a really, it was a really cool way to

00:13:38.634 --> 00:13:42.085
do something tactile and dimensional
as a retail P O P type display.

00:13:42.085 --> 00:13:44.065
You can, there's no way you
can outsource that back then.

00:13:44.124 --> 00:13:47.004
I guess it's debatable if you could even
outsource it today, just given shipping on

00:13:47.004 --> 00:13:50.888
a, a bunch of doors, but stuff like that,
it just, it made it really difficult to.

00:13:52.418 --> 00:13:54.668
To outsource and to be able to
offer those kinds of things.

00:13:54.673 --> 00:13:57.827
And, if you want to set yourself apart
from your competition and be the go-to

00:13:57.827 --> 00:14:01.076
place for customers, when they've got
some wild, crazy, hair, brain idea,

00:14:01.676 --> 00:14:03.809
you gotta have the equipment to do it.

00:14:03.830 --> 00:14:04.280
Bryant Gillespie: is that a

00:14:04.280 --> 00:14:06.736
good strategy or do you
want to be that shop?

00:14:06.795 --> 00:14:10.093
I think we all do, and like being
like years removed from the shop

00:14:10.093 --> 00:14:11.293
now, I still feel that itch.

00:14:12.238 --> 00:14:14.725
I want to go back and make
something or start a shop.

00:14:14.775 --> 00:14:15.555
Michael Riley: That's a good question.

00:14:15.612 --> 00:14:17.994
is that why is that ? Is
that a good business model?

00:14:18.017 --> 00:14:18.245
Bryant Gillespie: Yeah.

00:14:18.245 --> 00:14:22.728
It, I always enjoyed those projects,
but if I just, obviously I don't have

00:14:22.728 --> 00:14:26.628
the numbers in front of me, but if
I go back and I like, think through

00:14:26.628 --> 00:14:31.173
those crazy off the wall projects that
we did like that printing corn hole

00:14:31.178 --> 00:14:35.193
boards, like actual Birch plywood,
running it through the flatbed.

00:14:35.433 --> 00:14:40.833
Those are no doubt, really cool projects,
but I don't think we ever made any money.

00:14:41.333 --> 00:14:45.454
So I don't, yeah, we probably
lost money on all those jobs.

00:14:45.524 --> 00:14:46.014
Michael Riley: yeah.

00:14:46.099 --> 00:14:48.109
Bryant Gillespie: I guess
that brings satisfaction, but

00:14:48.384 --> 00:14:50.786
obviously we're in
business to, to make money.

00:14:52.604 --> 00:14:54.358
Michael Riley: right, Not stir our egos.

00:14:57.218 --> 00:14:58.521
it's a tough call.

00:14:58.611 --> 00:15:01.937
If that equipment is critical to the
operation, or if it's just something

00:15:01.942 --> 00:15:04.937
that you want to have to, to be
able to use it when the need arises.

00:15:04.962 --> 00:15:09.977
I would say you're probably on the
right path that just buying it cuz you

00:15:09.977 --> 00:15:12.647
want it cuz you think you need it cuz
you think you're gonna get these cool

00:15:12.647 --> 00:15:15.777
orders is definitely not the approach to
take, even though we've all done that.

00:15:15.844 --> 00:15:21.455
and again for me, 10, 15 years ago, I
probably wouldn't have gone down that

00:15:21.455 --> 00:15:24.875
path if there were better vendors that
I could align myself with, but it's easy

00:15:24.880 --> 00:15:28.195
to fall into the trap of thinking, okay,
I'm paying somebody, like I'm paying like

00:15:28.825 --> 00:15:35.095
signs 365, I don't know, 80 cents a square
foot for corrugated plastic yard signs or

00:15:35.116 --> 00:15:36.436
whatever they charge you per square foot.

00:15:36.436 --> 00:15:37.486
I don't even know what it is anymore.

00:15:37.548 --> 00:15:37.908
oh man.

00:15:37.908 --> 00:15:39.558
If I had a flatbed printer, it's cheap.

00:15:39.593 --> 00:15:40.373
it's dirt cheap, right?

00:15:40.430 --> 00:15:42.216
it's easy to say, if I had a
flatbed printer, I could do

00:15:42.216 --> 00:15:44.526
that for 20 cents a square foot.

00:15:44.526 --> 00:15:46.486
Like it's three times cheaper.

00:15:46.505 --> 00:15:48.855
that's so much more profit margin, but
really the difference between 20 cents

00:15:48.855 --> 00:15:50.415
a square and 80 cents is not that much.

00:15:50.415 --> 00:15:51.405
It's not gonna make it or break it.

00:15:51.405 --> 00:15:56.085
And that flatbeds gonna cost you a
fortune and overhead to keep there,

00:15:56.775 --> 00:15:58.065
to save that little bit of money.

00:15:58.095 --> 00:16:01.305
So I think most shops, if they would
really were to sit down and do the math.

00:16:01.325 --> 00:16:04.250
of what it would cost truly cost
to manufacture something in house

00:16:04.250 --> 00:16:08.840
with overhead and staffing and
maintenance and the whole nine yards.

00:16:09.530 --> 00:16:12.590
It financially, it makes a whole
lot more sense to outsource most

00:16:12.590 --> 00:16:13.670
things, unless you're so big.

00:16:13.670 --> 00:16:18.101
And your volume is so massive where
then those pennies really count.

00:16:18.106 --> 00:16:20.951
But for the average shop,
like pennies don't matter.

00:16:21.071 --> 00:16:23.703
Like they really don't and getting
caught up in the pennies is dangerous.

00:16:23.709 --> 00:16:28.094
Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, and I think
it's easy to underestimate like

00:16:28.094 --> 00:16:29.784
the service and time involved.

00:16:29.784 --> 00:16:32.413
I'm sure like printers and equipment
have gotten better over the years,

00:16:32.413 --> 00:16:37.755
obviously, but still even if you spend,
you look at a purchase of a big piece

00:16:37.755 --> 00:16:43.875
of equipment, like a router table or a
flatbed cutter flatbed printer easily

00:16:43.875 --> 00:16:45.105
like a hundred grand for something.

00:16:46.050 --> 00:16:48.523
You look at that as okay, it's a
hundred grand and then we're good.

00:16:48.523 --> 00:16:53.558
you, what you don't see is the, like the
maintenance costs, the time that you're

00:16:53.558 --> 00:17:00.188
gonna spend on servicing that piece of
equipment when it goes down the headaches.

00:17:00.264 --> 00:17:04.016
, so I think we're telling a
long-winded story to say, if you're

00:17:04.016 --> 00:17:05.936
out there now and you're looking.

00:17:06.926 --> 00:17:11.885
Hey, should I buy a router or should
I buy a brand new flatbed printer?

00:17:13.055 --> 00:17:18.035
The first question you have to answer
is gonna be, do I have the volume

00:17:18.035 --> 00:17:23.800
now to make all the payments on
that and, make sure I'm covering not

00:17:23.800 --> 00:17:28.972
just the loan payments, but also the
ongoing expenses associated with that.

00:17:28.998 --> 00:17:29.968
and does that make sense?

00:17:30.393 --> 00:17:31.093
Financially,

00:17:31.158 --> 00:17:34.081
Michael Riley: Yeah, the maintenance thing
is definitely something that I think a lot

00:17:34.081 --> 00:17:35.679
of people fail to take into consideration.

00:17:35.729 --> 00:17:39.869
I'll use my C E T flatbed as an example,
things you don't really think about a

00:17:39.869 --> 00:17:43.649
lot, but if you get one head strike on
that and you damage ahead, like it's not

00:17:43.654 --> 00:17:48.779
a,  it not a $400 Epson print head that
you see in like a ma mock or something.

00:17:48.809 --> 00:17:52.799
mine had eight spectra
heads at 2,500 bucks a pop.

00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:57.389
And if you scratch the nozzle plate
on two of those, not only are you

00:17:57.389 --> 00:18:00.466
down for a week, you're also out
quite a bit of money to replace those.

00:18:00.533 --> 00:18:01.283
that's stuff that you just

00:18:01.322 --> 00:18:01.922
Bryant Gillespie: factor in.

00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:04.570
Michael Riley: you just don't really, you
can't really, it's hard to factor that

00:18:04.575 --> 00:18:08.037
stuff in because it's such an unknown,
but that's why I say you really need

00:18:08.037 --> 00:18:10.587
to have the volume to justify those.

00:18:10.637 --> 00:18:14.237
and it's not like a machine that
you just buy and put in place.

00:18:14.237 --> 00:18:16.579
And then you forget about, especially
when you're moving up into larger

00:18:16.579 --> 00:18:21.496
equipment like that, it's a, it's
an ongoing, constant maintenance.

00:18:22.876 --> 00:18:25.426
Requirement and maintenance
on those things.

00:18:25.426 --> 00:18:27.106
The bigger the machine is the
more expensive they are to

00:18:27.106 --> 00:18:28.036
maintain and keep running.

00:18:28.527 --> 00:18:29.067
Bryant Gillespie: Absolutely.

00:18:29.137 --> 00:18:34.442
So look at the advice here
is outsource all your stuff.

00:18:34.982 --> 00:18:38.132
Hey, whatever piece of equipment that
you're trying to buy, find a vendor

00:18:38.137 --> 00:18:44.522
for that, keep them as busy as possible
until you have the work to justify

00:18:44.582 --> 00:18:46.832
that printer that router don't buy.

00:18:47.302 --> 00:18:50.152
Just because you want it, or it's the end
of the year and your accountant says, Hey,

00:18:50.152 --> 00:18:53.542
we need to spend money to save on taxes.

00:18:53.932 --> 00:18:56.021
Michael Riley: And I think there's
like keeping up with the Jones kind

00:18:56.026 --> 00:18:58.746
of thing in the industry as well,
where oh man, like the sign shop

00:18:58.751 --> 00:18:59.606
down the street, they just bought.

00:19:00.726 --> 00:19:01.866
They just bought a new flatbed.

00:19:01.866 --> 00:19:05.826
So like I'm not gonna be competitive with
them unless I also have a flatbed as well.

00:19:06.336 --> 00:19:08.946
It's easy to fall into that trap too,
where you've gotta keep up with your

00:19:08.946 --> 00:19:10.986
competition or you feel like you're
gonna lose customers with them.

00:19:10.986 --> 00:19:13.143
Cuz they've got all the fancy
toys and equipment and that's

00:19:13.143 --> 00:19:14.463
not how it really works.

00:19:14.493 --> 00:19:16.413
And you shouldn't ever buy
a piece of equipment because

00:19:16.418 --> 00:19:18.813
your competitor did, you know

00:19:18.946 --> 00:19:20.663
Bryant Gillespie: or just
because you want the toys.

00:19:20.663 --> 00:19:20.993
Yeah.

00:19:21.503 --> 00:19:24.023
Like I've mentioned, that was
like a big thing for us was

00:19:24.028 --> 00:19:25.193
like, oh yeah, we could do that.

00:19:25.193 --> 00:19:25.943
We could do that.

00:19:26.093 --> 00:19:27.893
Yeah, of course we, no,
we got that in house.

00:19:27.898 --> 00:19:28.583
We could do that.

00:19:29.063 --> 00:19:32.192
And I feel like we talk to a lot of
shops where the strategy for a lot of

00:19:32.197 --> 00:19:34.532
them is, Hey, we're a OneStop shop.

00:19:34.547 --> 00:19:36.430
and yeah, I think.

00:19:38.097 --> 00:19:39.957
there's multiple ways to success.

00:19:39.957 --> 00:19:40.707
Obviously.

00:19:41.007 --> 00:19:43.537
Like some shops have
success with that model.

00:19:43.550 --> 00:19:44.810
but it is stressful.

00:19:45.320 --> 00:19:49.970
It's a lot of headaches for the
owner doing so many different things.

00:19:49.970 --> 00:19:54.817
You really split your focus and it
becomes hard to be great at all of them.

00:19:54.817 --> 00:19:58.350
so not knocking you, if
you are a one stop shop.

00:19:58.710 --> 00:19:59.305
That's okay.

00:19:59.305 --> 00:20:02.022
but there's different ways to
have a successful sign shop.

00:20:02.562 --> 00:20:05.928
And I think that kind of leads
us into what we're gonna chat

00:20:05.933 --> 00:20:10.708
with our guest Jeremy about is
what's the ideal shop for you?

00:20:10.708 --> 00:20:13.908
I think I could say this and
it'd be true for you too.

00:20:13.908 --> 00:20:16.968
Mike, when I say it is like,
when we were coming up, it

00:20:16.968 --> 00:20:18.563
was like, Hey, we gotta grow.

00:20:18.863 --> 00:20:23.123
I wanna have the biggest shop possible
because that's how I'm gonna make

00:20:23.213 --> 00:20:27.993
the most money or have the best exit
or, whatever the ideal was at that

00:20:27.993 --> 00:20:29.713
time, it was like bigger is better.

00:20:29.713 --> 00:20:31.227
and I feel like that shifted some.

00:20:33.939 --> 00:20:35.649
Michael Riley: that kind of goes
back into what I think it was on

00:20:35.649 --> 00:20:37.329
our very first podcast episode.

00:20:37.329 --> 00:20:38.421
We talked about, this.

00:20:39.681 --> 00:20:43.020
The business mentality of grow or die
is kind beaten into all of our heads.

00:20:43.088 --> 00:20:46.723
and this sort of goes hand in hand
with that where you feel like if you're

00:20:46.723 --> 00:20:49.753
not constantly moving forward and
growing and expanding your business,

00:20:49.758 --> 00:20:50.893
then you're doing something wrong.

00:20:51.583 --> 00:20:54.493
If your sales aren't always going up by
20% every year, you're doing something

00:20:54.493 --> 00:20:57.643
wrong and that's not necessarily the case.

00:20:57.643 --> 00:20:59.595
And that's a really bad, rut to fall into.

00:20:59.646 --> 00:21:03.306
it will compel you to buy equipment
that you don't need bring on services

00:21:03.306 --> 00:21:05.976
and staff in house that you don't
need in, in pursuit of this growth

00:21:05.976 --> 00:21:08.873
goal, which, growth isn't bad.

00:21:08.873 --> 00:21:10.883
But like we talked about in that
first episode, you gotta manage it

00:21:11.573 --> 00:21:15.664
aggressively and outsourcing as much
as possible is one way to really.

00:21:16.084 --> 00:21:19.466
Control that growth and keep it on track
and keep it from just, spiraling outta

00:21:19.466 --> 00:21:23.529
control, where you're buying tons and tons
of equipment that you don't necessarily

00:21:23.529 --> 00:21:28.899
need, or that you'd be better off
letting somebody else buy in wholesale to

00:21:28.954 --> 00:21:34.294
Bryant Gillespie: So my next question
for you is what can't you outsource

00:21:34.322 --> 00:21:36.162
or what should you be outsourcing?

00:21:36.592 --> 00:21:39.245
what's our saying in
the group that we have.

00:21:41.345 --> 00:21:43.075
J F I just.

00:21:44.656 --> 00:21:46.176
Michael Riley: JFI just fucking fiber.

00:21:46.176 --> 00:21:47.071
It I love fiber.

00:21:49.196 --> 00:21:49.886
It has its place.

00:21:49.886 --> 00:21:53.185
No, I think that question is going to
depend on the individual shop owner and

00:21:53.185 --> 00:21:55.740
what, what their core product offering is.

00:21:55.740 --> 00:21:58.624
they produce in house and you know what
all the ancillary things are that their

00:21:58.624 --> 00:22:04.264
customers are asking them for, that they
maybe don't do in house, but things that

00:22:04.264 --> 00:22:07.954
are really commoditized in our industry
now wide format printing in general,

00:22:08.093 --> 00:22:09.227
I think falls under that.

00:22:09.297 --> 00:22:12.830
To me, I can't imagine trying to,
have a big roster of, roll to roll

00:22:12.830 --> 00:22:15.620
equipment in house, trying to print
wraps and decals and things like that.

00:22:16.370 --> 00:22:18.770
Print quality's important, but honestly,
like I guarantee you, there's a

00:22:18.770 --> 00:22:22.430
wholesaler out there that can print
better than anything you can print

00:22:22.430 --> 00:22:25.821
in house more accurately faster,
and, just as cheap for square foot.

00:22:25.821 --> 00:22:28.371
It's just one of those things
that lets somebody else do it.

00:22:28.431 --> 00:22:31.750
They, somebody who does it all day,
every day is gonna do it better, faster.

00:22:31.900 --> 00:22:33.010
There's no reason to try and print

00:22:33.010 --> 00:22:35.080
Bryant Gillespie: Do you have
any recommended vendors on that?

00:22:35.140 --> 00:22:37.690
Aside from the obvious like signs 365.

00:22:41.140 --> 00:22:43.986
Michael Riley: Science 365 was like
the only one back in the day that I

00:22:43.986 --> 00:22:47.166
used, there were a few like smaller
shops here and there, but, I, I

00:22:47.166 --> 00:22:49.416
don't know how science 365 is doing.

00:22:49.416 --> 00:22:50.611
I haven't used them in years.

00:22:50.611 --> 00:22:51.944
but that I used to love those guys.

00:22:51.944 --> 00:22:53.564
They had a great online
portal for ordering.

00:22:53.569 --> 00:22:54.284
It was really easy.

00:22:54.321 --> 00:22:56.181
their product offering
is pretty cut and dry.

00:22:56.181 --> 00:22:59.043
They don't get anything super custom
and stuff, but for, corrugated

00:22:59.048 --> 00:23:02.142
plastic, basic self-adhesive
vinyl banners and stuff like that.

00:23:02.142 --> 00:23:02.658
Like they're great.

00:23:02.658 --> 00:23:05.808
They generally get the product to
you in one to two days, your customer

00:23:05.808 --> 00:23:06.918
will never know you outsourced it.

00:23:06.918 --> 00:23:08.403
So vendors like that are fantastic.

00:23:08.455 --> 00:23:10.567
used to outsource a lot of
channel letters to like direct

00:23:10.572 --> 00:23:12.127
sign wholesale and Econo channel.

00:23:12.196 --> 00:23:16.503
both of those guys are still around,
doing well, but honestly, I'm so far

00:23:16.503 --> 00:23:19.395
removed from the actual like sales and
manufacturing side of the industry.

00:23:19.395 --> 00:23:21.585
Now I really don't know who.

00:23:23.305 --> 00:23:26.031
Who the good vendors are anymore,
but everybody that I talk to, that's

00:23:26.031 --> 00:23:29.684
outsourcing, they've all got, a
list of, heavy hitters in their back

00:23:29.689 --> 00:23:32.200
pocket that they re rely on, regularly

00:23:32.257 --> 00:23:35.127
Bryant Gillespie: do most of your assigned
design clients, are they outsourcing

00:23:35.127 --> 00:23:39.078
stuff like channel letters or are
they, they're manufacturing themselves.

00:23:41.741 --> 00:23:42.391
Michael Riley: A lot of.

00:23:43.326 --> 00:23:47.221
Most of my design clients are larger sign
shops that, that are, electrical shops.

00:23:47.225 --> 00:23:52.415
most of them occasionally outsource work,
but more, more like as an overflow type

00:23:52.415 --> 00:23:56.088
thing and not as like a core product
offering, if you're in the, if you're

00:23:56.088 --> 00:23:58.607
trying to compete in the electric sign
business and you're trying to do any

00:23:58.607 --> 00:24:00.017
sort of volume at all, you're really.

00:24:01.022 --> 00:24:02.855
You need to build stuff in house too.

00:24:02.879 --> 00:24:07.379
although I do have one client who
has, I think they've got 10 or 12

00:24:07.409 --> 00:24:10.379
installers and a fleet of trucks and
everything, but they don't actually

00:24:10.379 --> 00:24:11.639
manufacture anything in house.

00:24:11.639 --> 00:24:14.772
They outsource it all and they're super
successful and they do really well.

00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:17.623
and then I've got other shops that just,
outsource the random channel letter

00:24:17.623 --> 00:24:19.423
sign here and there to keep their.

00:24:20.108 --> 00:24:24.572
Their shop floor unclogged with
commodity where like in the electrical

00:24:24.572 --> 00:24:27.602
sign industry, a set of channel letters
on a Raceway is pretty much the same

00:24:27.602 --> 00:24:30.992
as is commoditized in the same way
that a banner is for a vinyl shop.

00:24:31.562 --> 00:24:32.672
So that's something you can

00:24:32.752 --> 00:24:34.372
Bryant Gillespie: there's a
thousand different vendors for that.

00:24:34.374 --> 00:24:36.582
Michael Riley: And you can't
really, you can't really screw

00:24:36.587 --> 00:24:37.572
up a channel letters either.

00:24:37.572 --> 00:24:38.935
Like they're pretty basic and simple.

00:24:39.001 --> 00:24:42.415
So most of them try to focus on their
core compet competencies in house,

00:24:42.415 --> 00:24:45.270
which is, the fabrication stuff and
really doing a good job with that.

00:24:45.270 --> 00:24:48.780
And anything that's just
cut and dry type signage.

00:24:48.804 --> 00:24:53.100
they, they usually outsource just to, to
free up the production floor, which is

00:24:53.100 --> 00:24:54.360
another great reason to outsource too.

00:24:54.360 --> 00:24:55.530
Not necessarily just to.

00:24:56.535 --> 00:25:00.701
Expand your product offering or get into
new markets, but just as overflow or,

00:25:00.701 --> 00:25:03.756
that's the majority of my design work
is just overflow work outta people's

00:25:03.756 --> 00:25:06.966
art departments that they're too
busy to handle certain jobs in house.

00:25:06.966 --> 00:25:10.519
So they need to, offload some of that, not
that they're outsourcing all their design

00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:14.539
to me, I'm just getting a portion of it
when they're too busy to do it in house.

00:25:15.439 --> 00:25:19.924
So keeping, keeping your staff
free to focus on what they

00:25:19.924 --> 00:25:20.944
do best is another really

00:25:21.003 --> 00:25:22.307
Bryant Gillespie: I think
that's, a great point.

00:25:22.307 --> 00:25:25.217
I think it's it definitely
understated as well.

00:25:25.273 --> 00:25:25.513
yeah.

00:25:25.513 --> 00:25:28.913
How many guys did we talk to
on the mastermind calls where

00:25:28.913 --> 00:25:30.576
like, Hey, we've got more work
than we can handle right now.

00:25:33.393 --> 00:25:33.693
Michael Riley: Yeah.

00:25:33.693 --> 00:25:35.253
And they're having a hard
time finding employees too.

00:25:35.278 --> 00:25:37.438
that's obviously something that
everybody's struggling with is

00:25:37.443 --> 00:25:41.172
finding staffing and after COVID
staffing up is becoming a really.

00:25:41.952 --> 00:25:45.432
Really difficult challenge to overcome
for, I think everybody in this industry,

00:25:45.432 --> 00:25:46.392
I don't think I've talked to anybody.

00:25:46.392 --> 00:25:47.618
Who's oh yeah.

00:25:47.624 --> 00:25:49.094
I'm having a great time hiring people.

00:25:49.108 --> 00:25:51.542
everybody's not enjoying that process.

00:25:51.542 --> 00:25:52.082
Like it sucks.

00:25:52.082 --> 00:25:52.482
It's hard.

00:25:52.537 --> 00:25:56.148
so yeah, just out a necessity because
you can't staff up or you wanna run

00:25:56.153 --> 00:26:01.458
a lean crew in house outsourcing is a
great way to allow you to do that without

00:26:02.388 --> 00:26:05.358
theoretically, without sacrificing quality
or having to charge your customer more.

00:26:05.962 --> 00:26:08.204
Bryant Gillespie: So I like those
points, Mike, and I think that

00:26:08.204 --> 00:26:12.434
kind of naturally leads us into
our conversation with our guests.

00:26:13.650 --> 00:26:13.980
All right.

00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:17.370
So welcome to our guest, Jeremy Seager.

00:26:17.854 --> 00:26:22.324
Mike, since Jeremy was a former
customer of yours, why don't you

00:26:22.624 --> 00:26:24.514
give him the, the introduction?

00:26:24.514 --> 00:26:27.154
Give him the, the rah, bring him on

00:26:28.207 --> 00:26:28.567
Michael Riley: Yeah.

00:26:28.567 --> 00:26:32.631
So we got Jeremy seekers with,
sharp mill graphics with us today.

00:26:32.648 --> 00:26:32.986
yeah.

00:26:33.027 --> 00:26:36.106
I did a little bit of wholesale
printing for Jeremy way back in the day.

00:26:36.136 --> 00:26:37.126
Gosh, what was that like?

00:26:37.336 --> 00:26:39.046
At least 10, 12.

00:26:39.511 --> 00:26:40.711
Years ago, 15 years ago.

00:26:41.861 --> 00:26:42.911
Jeremy Siegers: well
actually I got into business.

00:26:42.911 --> 00:26:44.381
It was 2002.

00:26:44.651 --> 00:26:45.262
So I maybe

00:26:45.672 --> 00:26:47.202
Michael Riley: It's been a Yeah,

00:26:47.242 --> 00:26:47.842
Jeremy Siegers: it's been a while

00:26:48.342 --> 00:26:50.528
Michael Riley: but that was, that
was, he was a science 1 0 1 customer

00:26:50.533 --> 00:26:52.028
I think is where he found me on there.

00:26:52.568 --> 00:26:55.478
Jeremy Siegers: the original the original
social networking of the signage industry

00:26:55.478 --> 00:26:56.948
science1@one.com

00:26:57.388 --> 00:26:57.778
Michael Riley: Yeah.

00:26:58.318 --> 00:27:01.138
I was actually just on there the other
day and it's, it's pretty dead now and

00:27:01.143 --> 00:27:04.198
it's, it's not as active as it used to
be, but still some of the old school

00:27:04.558 --> 00:27:05.168
Jeremy Siegers: I bet.

00:27:05.168 --> 00:27:06.171
I bet your Geno's still there.

00:27:06.172 --> 00:27:06.652
, 
You know

00:27:07.349 --> 00:27:08.909
Michael Riley: he's pretty much
the only person still there.

00:27:08.999 --> 00:27:09.841
seems like, but, yeah.

00:27:09.841 --> 00:27:09.991
Yeah.

00:27:09.991 --> 00:27:13.826
So I, I, I met Jeremy, years ago just,
doing some wholesale, like rap printing

00:27:13.831 --> 00:27:15.176
and decals and things like that for him.

00:27:15.204 --> 00:27:16.234
stayed in touch over the years.

00:27:16.265 --> 00:27:17.525
Jeremy has, since.

00:27:17.606 --> 00:27:20.276
kind of had a pretty monumental
shift in the way he operates.

00:27:20.276 --> 00:27:23.814
He's he's gotten rid of his, his actual
brick and mortar, shop and, and his staff.

00:27:23.819 --> 00:27:26.737
And now he, he's a one man operation
and he outsources everything,

00:27:26.737 --> 00:27:29.337
which is why we wanted to have
him on the podcast episode today.

00:27:29.337 --> 00:27:31.107
So welcome, Jeremy.

00:27:31.107 --> 00:27:32.167
We're glad you were here.

00:27:32.554 --> 00:27:32.884
Bryant Gillespie: Yes

00:27:32.987 --> 00:27:34.037
Jeremy Siegers: I'm glad to be here guys.

00:27:34.517 --> 00:27:34.967
Glad to be here.

00:27:35.752 --> 00:27:38.912
Michael Riley: so I, I guess like if
you, if you would kind of just paint a,

00:27:39.232 --> 00:27:44.182
a quick picture for, for our listeners
of sort of, you know, your, your original

00:27:44.182 --> 00:27:47.913
entry into the industry, what you did,
and then, you know, how that's evolved

00:27:47.913 --> 00:27:51.268
and what led you to your decision to,
you know, get rid of everybody and

00:27:51.268 --> 00:27:54.611
everything, and sell, sell the farm
and just, just do what you're doing.

00:27:55.203 --> 00:27:55.693
Bryant Gillespie: Yeah

00:27:55.706 --> 00:27:57.663
Jeremy Siegers: well I got in the
business, like I said, like 2000,

00:27:57.663 --> 00:28:03.439
2003, actually started working for
a family company, family sign shop,

00:28:03.509 --> 00:28:06.963
right outta high school, and, uh,
started, days before digital printing.

00:28:07.086 --> 00:28:08.906
I was running an automatic
screen printing press.

00:28:09.296 --> 00:28:12.624
We were screen printing, big campaign
signs, four foot bite, eight foots.

00:28:12.624 --> 00:28:15.564
And, nowadays all that stuff's, all
digital and, I love doing that sort

00:28:15.564 --> 00:28:19.615
of stuff, and it was just even back to
high school, all my elective classes,

00:28:19.615 --> 00:28:23.611
all art classes, it was all drawing
ceramics and all that fun stuff.

00:28:23.611 --> 00:28:23.897
But.

00:28:23.897 --> 00:28:26.896
in high school, to do that sort of art
and bring that, how do you make money

00:28:26.896 --> 00:28:28.546
doing that sort of art, like just drawing.

00:28:28.546 --> 00:28:30.754
And I really didn't see,
sort of future in it.

00:28:31.924 --> 00:28:34.954
But then when I got to working at the
sign shops like, whoa, I mean like,

00:28:34.954 --> 00:28:37.024
this is, this is commercial art people.

00:28:37.029 --> 00:28:40.989
They need this stuff, and it just
opened my eyes to another world

00:28:40.989 --> 00:28:42.573
of art, it was commercial art.

00:28:43.053 --> 00:28:46.083
And, so I worked there for, a while and.

00:28:46.833 --> 00:28:48.033
Probably about six months or so.

00:28:48.393 --> 00:28:52.244
And I'd come home from work every day, and
tell my parents, oh, I made this, we did

00:28:52.244 --> 00:28:54.284
this, oh, we, we made it to this company.

00:28:54.674 --> 00:28:59.145
I made contract with Coca-Cola Pepsi
and so it's fun, and after about

00:28:59.145 --> 00:29:02.396
six months, one of their, their
kids graduate from college, came

00:29:02.396 --> 00:29:03.866
back to work for a family business.

00:29:04.316 --> 00:29:06.277
And they're like, well,
Jeremy, we don't need anymore.

00:29:06.427 --> 00:29:07.837
I'm like, oh man, look what.

00:29:08.587 --> 00:29:10.057
I was just, I was so bummed.

00:29:10.147 --> 00:29:14.609
I was so bummed and, but I, I
loved, I loved everything about it.

00:29:14.659 --> 00:29:17.989
it was like my art background
and, the business side of things.

00:29:17.989 --> 00:29:20.836
And, so yeah, one day, I was, mean
the internet was just kind of starting

00:29:20.836 --> 00:29:22.516
to, to come around at that point.

00:29:22.846 --> 00:29:26.266
So I just happened to, I think it might
have been AOL like dialup or something.

00:29:26.536 --> 00:29:30.256
So I was happened to be on the, went
on the internet and was just doing a

00:29:30.261 --> 00:29:32.086
little bit of research and came across.

00:29:32.791 --> 00:29:36.616
An open house, MCO, which was
small, grim co at the time

00:29:37.396 --> 00:29:38.686
they were having an open house.

00:29:39.016 --> 00:29:43.555
So me and my dad, once Saturday, we go to
a, open house of grim co here in Chicago.

00:29:43.915 --> 00:29:47.563
And, the big players are there, the big,
suppliers, the big, manufacturers and

00:29:48.133 --> 00:29:52.328
end up coming home with, little plotter,
software and a couple rolls of vinyl.

00:29:52.388 --> 00:29:56.735
I just started teaching myself, started
playing around with it and, Got into

00:29:56.735 --> 00:30:00.424
his, a little hobby, and I started then
I, started going to college and, went to

00:30:00.424 --> 00:30:02.266
college for, computers and networking.

00:30:03.856 --> 00:30:07.691
then, so yeah, it's this little hobby,
just go to college classes during the

00:30:07.691 --> 00:30:13.050
day, come home, do my homework, go
work, start, learn more about Sy lab

00:30:13.050 --> 00:30:15.120
and making a few things here and there.

00:30:15.120 --> 00:30:19.905
And next thing you know, My, my
grandfather, my mom's dad, he had a, he

00:30:19.905 --> 00:30:22.095
owned a wrecking and excavating business.

00:30:22.095 --> 00:30:25.820
So he had big caterpillar tractors
and, and, John Deere equipment.

00:30:25.820 --> 00:30:28.026
And it's like, Jeremy, Hey, or
you got some, you're getting

00:30:28.031 --> 00:30:29.346
an assign making business.

00:30:29.425 --> 00:30:31.778
did you be interested in, letters
on my tractors, with, with

00:30:31.778 --> 00:30:32.948
our company name, like, sure.

00:30:32.953 --> 00:30:34.423
Grandpa, I'll give it a shot, and.

00:30:34.978 --> 00:30:38.845
So, start load his tractors
and then, other people, Hey,

00:30:38.845 --> 00:30:39.976
Jeremy, can you do this?

00:30:39.976 --> 00:30:43.698
And one thing, I'm, I'm now this
little side, I've got a little side

00:30:43.698 --> 00:30:45.678
business, I'm making a car payment, I'm

00:30:46.120 --> 00:30:48.550
paying car insurance while I'm
going to college full time.

00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:49.690
This is great.

00:30:50.860 --> 00:30:52.418
And going and, just.

00:30:53.448 --> 00:30:55.862
goes from there, then,
I'm actually disabled.

00:30:55.862 --> 00:30:57.992
I have muscular dystrophy,
so I get around a mobility,

00:30:57.992 --> 00:30:59.552
scooter and a power wheelchair.

00:31:00.182 --> 00:31:04.634
And so at the time, the goal was I
was going to school for computers.

00:31:04.639 --> 00:31:07.310
Cause it's like, all right, I'm
not gonna be able to have, a real

00:31:07.310 --> 00:31:10.498
physical job, I'm, I'm not gonna be
able to, pick up a lot of heavy stuff.

00:31:10.498 --> 00:31:13.558
I'm not gonna be able to
really do a physical type job.

00:31:13.558 --> 00:31:14.908
So that's why I went
to counselor, computer.

00:31:15.913 --> 00:31:20.886
so the end game was you want me to get
done with college, get my degree, go

00:31:20.886 --> 00:31:23.916
get a job as a network administrator
or something like that for a company,

00:31:24.366 --> 00:31:30.430
and then have my side business at the
same time, world, everything was, great.

00:31:30.496 --> 00:31:33.165
so now by the time I get done with
college, I'm getting around on

00:31:33.165 --> 00:31:38.287
mobility scooter full time, and start
going on interviews for my job and.

00:31:38.632 --> 00:31:41.966
Every interview I would go into, every
person I interviewed with every HR

00:31:41.966 --> 00:31:43.946
person they'd see me on my scooter.

00:31:43.946 --> 00:31:45.866
They'd just, they'd stick
their nose up at me.

00:31:46.436 --> 00:31:50.276
That's they did not want anything
to do with me cuz I was disabled.

00:31:50.696 --> 00:31:53.366
They just were discriminated against me.

00:31:53.380 --> 00:31:53.764
they didn't care.

00:31:53.764 --> 00:31:56.134
If I was the smartest guy in the
room or smartest guy in the building,

00:31:56.656 --> 00:32:01.537
all they saw was my disability
and it was heartbreaking, and

00:32:01.769 --> 00:32:01.979
Bryant Gillespie: I can

00:32:02.257 --> 00:32:05.947
Jeremy Siegers: for a good solid,
for a good solid year, I interviewed.

00:32:06.292 --> 00:32:10.402
Trying to get a job with my degree
interview after interview at roll in

00:32:10.402 --> 00:32:14.242
same result, same thing, everybody
just stick their nose up and all

00:32:14.242 --> 00:32:16.642
they thought was you're gonna be
taking off of work all the time.

00:32:16.647 --> 00:32:17.962
You're gonna be on medication.

00:32:17.962 --> 00:32:19.342
You're gonna be a liability.

00:32:19.972 --> 00:32:25.912
And I did this for a good solid year,
but in the meantime, on a side, I'm still

00:32:25.912 --> 00:32:30.502
building my business, my signage and
graphics business around my disability.

00:32:31.132 --> 00:32:32.212
It's that's still growing.

00:32:32.392 --> 00:32:34.162
Nobody cared about my disability.

00:32:34.222 --> 00:32:34.882
Everybody has cared.

00:32:34.948 --> 00:32:37.138
building a relationship with
me and how good of work I did.

00:32:37.678 --> 00:32:39.356
They didn't care, if
I was disabled or not.

00:32:40.046 --> 00:32:43.953
So after a good solid year of
interviewing, I sat down with my

00:32:43.953 --> 00:32:48.093
parents, like, guys, nobody's gonna
give me a shot with my degree.

00:32:48.213 --> 00:32:52.303
Nobody I've been doing
this for a year and after.

00:32:52.503 --> 00:32:55.612
So at that time I told him like,
I'm just gonna run with my business,

00:32:55.612 --> 00:32:57.592
that I know I can thrive at.

00:32:57.952 --> 00:32:59.092
That's built around me.

00:32:59.452 --> 00:33:01.062
And that's what I.

00:33:01.392 --> 00:33:03.972
and I've been doing this
now, what, 20 years later.

00:33:04.002 --> 00:33:07.380
And, I'm a nationally certified
disability owned company with a

00:33:07.380 --> 00:33:08.550
organization called disability.

00:33:08.550 --> 00:33:13.501
N I got a state of Illinois
certification as well, and doing work

00:33:13.501 --> 00:33:16.741
with large companies, small company,
meatless, medium size companies.

00:33:16.746 --> 00:33:17.566
And, yeah.

00:33:17.926 --> 00:33:22.701
So then, so that's pretty much that
in a nutshell, but then once kind of.

00:33:24.029 --> 00:33:26.395
over the years, you hire employees,
you train 'em to get 'em to be

00:33:26.395 --> 00:33:27.505
right where you want 'em to be.

00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:31.552
and then, you trust them to, to do what
you need 'em to do, but then they up

00:33:31.552 --> 00:33:34.665
and quit on you, And it's like, then
it's, you gotta start all over trying

00:33:34.665 --> 00:33:38.055
to find someone again, And I got sick of
doing that, I wear so many hats, I got

00:33:38.285 --> 00:33:39.845
tons, I got gray hair underneath this hat.

00:33:39.845 --> 00:33:42.004
it just tons of gray hair, but

00:33:42.031 --> 00:33:43.351
Bryant Gillespie: Yeah,
I've got streaks going

00:33:43.351 --> 00:33:44.161
through here, man.

00:33:44.161 --> 00:33:44.756
They, the hair on

00:33:44.888 --> 00:33:47.231
Jeremy Siegers: of doing it, over
the years it's just, something had to

00:33:47.231 --> 00:33:50.361
give, I just, I was wearing so many
hats, operating, I could still run

00:33:50.361 --> 00:33:54.064
equipment, I get around mobility, so
I put more miles on my scooter than I,

00:33:54.064 --> 00:33:58.071
than most people would do just walking
around and, would get to a point where.

00:33:59.331 --> 00:34:02.130
I was wearing, I just wear wearing way
too many hats, and then I'd be going

00:34:02.130 --> 00:34:06.013
out to supervise installs because I, the
guys that would have working for me at

00:34:06.013 --> 00:34:10.540
the, they, if something wasn't in maybe
it's just me being, a perfectionist

00:34:10.600 --> 00:34:15.340
where I needed to go on the big installs
because at the end of the day, owning

00:34:15.340 --> 00:34:17.190
the company, the buck stops with me.

00:34:17.190 --> 00:34:20.592
if something happens at that install
or something's crooked or something's

00:34:20.592 --> 00:34:22.662
messed up, it's coming back to.

00:34:22.700 --> 00:34:23.278
the customer St.

00:34:23.278 --> 00:34:24.538
Jeremy, Hey, this is messed up.

00:34:24.778 --> 00:34:29.614
Not only do I have to, pay outta my
own pocket to remake it, I also to

00:34:29.614 --> 00:34:32.734
pay outta my pocket to reinstall it,
pay outta my pocket to, to have the

00:34:32.734 --> 00:34:34.324
same guys go back and install it.

00:34:34.624 --> 00:34:35.894
And what if they messed it up again?

00:34:35.894 --> 00:34:41.739
So it just, it got to be too much,
I'd be out on installs and, my phone's

00:34:41.739 --> 00:34:43.479
blowing up because people need quotes.

00:34:43.479 --> 00:34:47.349
I need other stuff going on that I
needed to be back in my office to manage.

00:34:48.339 --> 00:34:56.115
And so, I did it for years, and then
COVID hit and the whole world slowed down.

00:34:56.115 --> 00:35:00.118
it was still busy, not with the same
sort of work, but other work, all

00:35:00.118 --> 00:35:04.198
the social distancing signs, the D
kills and all that sort of stuff.

00:35:04.488 --> 00:35:08.848
But all the other stuff just kind of
slowed down and it gave me a lot of

00:35:08.848 --> 00:35:10.528
time to sit back and think about it.

00:35:10.575 --> 00:35:14.104
you sit there and you watch the
news, you watch everything and it's.

00:35:15.799 --> 00:35:19.939
If this is ever gonna be over, or when
this is gonna be over, what do I want

00:35:19.939 --> 00:35:22.549
to be doing for the next 10, 20 years?

00:35:22.577 --> 00:35:27.026
30 years, whatever, it actually
gave me time to sit back and reflect

00:35:27.056 --> 00:35:31.556
on the last 20 years of my life
and what I want to be doing for

00:35:31.556 --> 00:35:33.479
the next, 20, 30 years of my life.

00:35:34.619 --> 00:35:37.289
Can I continue doing it this way?

00:35:37.859 --> 00:35:40.169
Do I want to keep wearing all these hats?

00:35:40.234 --> 00:35:41.194
I don't have a big shop.

00:35:41.194 --> 00:35:42.154
I never had a big shop.

00:35:42.154 --> 00:35:44.284
I always have built relationships

00:35:44.284 --> 00:35:44.374
with

00:35:44.476 --> 00:35:46.433
Bryant Gillespie: What did
you guys, if I cut in on you,

00:35:46.433 --> 00:35:47.633
what did you guys look like?

00:35:47.738 --> 00:35:51.895
prior to COVID like, what, how many
employees did you have Like yeah

00:35:51.895 --> 00:35:53.515
What What, was the kind of general

00:35:53.965 --> 00:35:54.055
the

00:35:54.055 --> 00:35:54.655
feel for the

00:35:54.685 --> 00:35:56.016
Jeremy Siegers: had three,
I had three employees.

00:35:56.016 --> 00:36:02.184
I mean it nothing big, but I wore so
many hats, or I did so much and I had.

00:36:02.209 --> 00:36:06.679
sub subcontractors that, I relied
on for, fabricating, big signage,

00:36:06.811 --> 00:36:10.023
who also had, bucket trucks,
I'd hire them to go install.

00:36:10.383 --> 00:36:12.273
So I didn't have to have all that,

00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:13.682
Bryant Gillespie: of equipment
did you guys have in house

00:36:13.738 --> 00:36:16.490
Jeremy Siegers: digital
printers plotters laminators.

00:36:16.494 --> 00:36:18.701
Bryant Gillespie: kind
of the, the standard sign

00:36:18.753 --> 00:36:21.659
Jeremy Siegers: yeah, So I didn't
need to invest in other stuff.

00:36:21.689 --> 00:36:25.799
Cuz I'd had relationships
with subs that had it already.

00:36:25.799 --> 00:36:28.872
They made the big investments in all
that, and over the years, that's what

00:36:29.262 --> 00:36:34.058
there's been a lot more dependable,
subcontractors, wholesalers or whatever

00:36:34.058 --> 00:36:35.996
you wanna say that's all they do.

00:36:36.046 --> 00:36:38.353
they invest the millions of
dollars in the equipment where,

00:36:38.353 --> 00:36:39.643
why would I, why should I do it?

00:36:39.731 --> 00:36:44.322
I can call up, you like, for instance,
like, TJ, I think it's, GCI digital.

00:36:45.252 --> 00:36:45.432
Yeah.

00:36:45.642 --> 00:36:46.332
Excuse me.

00:36:46.418 --> 00:36:48.428
GCI digital throughout Ohio.

00:36:48.521 --> 00:36:52.516
he's buying equipment like every
other week, and he gets it to me.

00:36:52.521 --> 00:36:57.570
And in a couple days, or signs 365, all
these companies, they just deal with

00:36:58.040 --> 00:37:02.310
guys like us who have the experience
that we know what we're doing.

00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:04.260
They don't have to deal with the end.

00:37:05.160 --> 00:37:10.857
They just have to make it, print
it, ship it, it's just, I see their

00:37:10.857 --> 00:37:12.207
mindset, why they're doing it.

00:37:12.597 --> 00:37:16.251
And so why should I have had to invest
in all that equipment, all that overhead

00:37:16.821 --> 00:37:19.311
and when it didn't make any sense,

00:37:19.361 --> 00:37:23.621
Bryant Gillespie: If we go back to like,
what was the, the tipping point for

00:37:23.621 --> 00:37:25.751
you We hit COVID things slowed down.

00:37:27.411 --> 00:37:29.685
Jeremy Siegers: Yeah well, it just,
it just gave me so much time to

00:37:29.685 --> 00:37:33.284
reflect, a year or two, however long
it was, however long I don't even,

00:37:33.284 --> 00:37:35.018
it's, it's COVID is a blur now.

00:37:35.067 --> 00:37:37.136
it's just, it's like a blip
where it's like it's just like

00:37:37.136 --> 00:37:39.528
a bad dream or, just the fog.

00:37:39.528 --> 00:37:43.998
But, I kind of decided my car,
do I want to keep doing this or.

00:37:44.064 --> 00:37:47.665
change up, change everything up, so I
kind of just decided, as soon as I decide

00:37:47.665 --> 00:37:51.355
I wanted to change things up, I really
kind of came up with a plan, like, all

00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.185
right, well, how am I gonna do this?

00:37:53.190 --> 00:37:57.071
who am I going to, basically
build relationships with, and what

00:37:57.071 --> 00:37:58.751
relationships do I have in place already.

00:38:00.218 --> 00:38:00.548
Turns out.

00:38:00.548 --> 00:38:02.708
I had a lot of relationships
in place already.

00:38:02.768 --> 00:38:05.678
It's just, I didn't
need all the employees.

00:38:05.887 --> 00:38:08.587
I didn't have that money already,
but still had workman's and workman's

00:38:08.587 --> 00:38:10.147
comp, which I didn't need anymore.

00:38:10.177 --> 00:38:13.128
Got rid of the workman's comp didn't
need all the equipment sold all my

00:38:13.128 --> 00:38:17.418
equipment, and I basically just work
out of office now, I almost like an

00:38:17.418 --> 00:38:21.100
internet connection, my email contacts,
basically what I'm doing now, it's just.

00:38:21.206 --> 00:38:23.420
it's going about a different
way, it's just, it's going good.

00:38:23.481 --> 00:38:25.701
because then there, it came
time too, like, all right.

00:38:26.031 --> 00:38:30.040
In 20, 30 years, being here in, the
Chicagoland area, I hate winter.

00:38:30.160 --> 00:38:31.300
I absolutely hate winter.

00:38:31.358 --> 00:38:32.777
I want to go summer warm.

00:38:33.047 --> 00:38:37.145
I love to go to Florida or go to,
Tennessee or something, but the

00:38:37.145 --> 00:38:41.554
way my business was set up, having
equipment, having all this stuff.

00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:43.459
I'd be stuck here.

00:38:43.489 --> 00:38:45.019
I don't want to be stuck here.

00:38:45.019 --> 00:38:46.969
I want to be have the option.

00:38:47.479 --> 00:38:52.507
So whether it's 5, 10, 15, 20 years,
Hey maybe me and my entire family, my

00:38:52.507 --> 00:38:53.677
sister and my brother-in-law my niece.

00:38:53.677 --> 00:38:58.256
Maybe we're gonna maybe we'll decide
to move somewhere at where I was.

00:38:58.256 --> 00:38:59.036
I couldn't do that.

00:38:59.606 --> 00:39:02.066
So right now I can do that.

00:39:02.246 --> 00:39:05.369
Alls I need is a computer and internet
connection, Where I could basically run

00:39:05.369 --> 00:39:08.355
my business anywhere in the country,
in the world, if I wanted to, I'm not

00:39:08.415 --> 00:39:12.885
leaving the country, but you know, not
saying I'm even gonna move at all, but

00:39:12.890 --> 00:39:19.435
the option to do it is there now that I
never had, or even thought about, three,

00:39:19.435 --> 00:39:23.621
four years ago before COVID, so, oh it
just opened up my mind, it just gave me

00:39:23.711 --> 00:39:27.341
that time to think that I've never had
that time to think about before ever.

00:39:27.408 --> 00:39:30.103
Michael Riley: how has this
move to getting rid of your

00:39:30.103 --> 00:39:31.268
staff and your equipment?

00:39:31.268 --> 00:39:34.977
how has it affected your, your
sales and your bottom line?

00:39:35.027 --> 00:39:39.197
have you lost any customers or have
any customers lost faith in you?

00:39:39.197 --> 00:39:41.327
I guess, because you're not
manufacturing anything in house

00:39:41.327 --> 00:39:44.207
or has it really changed your.

00:39:45.197 --> 00:39:47.657
Your your bottom line much at all.

00:39:48.306 --> 00:39:50.073
Jeremy Siegers: no at the end of the
day, know, I'm actually kind of making

00:39:50.078 --> 00:39:52.363
more money cuz I'm not buying materials.

00:39:52.394 --> 00:39:52.634
I.

00:39:53.419 --> 00:39:54.379
Buying consumables.

00:39:54.379 --> 00:40:00.619
I'm not pulling my hair out, looking
for stocker materials, cuz all this

00:40:00.619 --> 00:40:02.209
supply chain issues and all that.

00:40:02.209 --> 00:40:03.559
I don't have to worry about that anymore.

00:40:03.646 --> 00:40:07.075
if I can't, know, I don't have to
call gr CRICO or any of the other

00:40:07.075 --> 00:40:08.445
companies, Hey, can I get a roll?

00:40:08.478 --> 00:40:09.867
IJ 180, can I get this?

00:40:09.867 --> 00:40:11.037
Can I get, oh no outta stock.

00:40:11.577 --> 00:40:12.897
I don't have to worry about that anymore.

00:40:12.927 --> 00:40:16.898
I have to my suppliers and subconscious
worry, worry about that now.

00:40:17.648 --> 00:40:18.638
So it's just.

00:40:20.063 --> 00:40:21.503
I don't have to worry about that anymore.

00:40:21.570 --> 00:40:23.460
Michael Riley: how did it
affect your bottom line sales?

00:40:23.465 --> 00:40:24.240
Did your sales go up

00:40:25.200 --> 00:40:27.583
Jeremy Siegers: they've gone down a little
bit, but they're starting to come back up.

00:40:27.613 --> 00:40:29.604
I like some of the clients that, I'm.

00:40:30.234 --> 00:40:33.353
I'm kind of picky now who I'd like
to work with, it's just, I have,

00:40:33.354 --> 00:40:38.172
industries and clientele that, I enjoy
working with more so than others.

00:40:38.652 --> 00:40:46.439
So I try to market towards that
sort of persona that I'm interested

00:40:46.479 --> 00:40:47.829
in building relationships with.

00:40:47.829 --> 00:40:50.978
And, companies are people who aren't
interested in the relationship.

00:40:52.028 --> 00:40:54.158
I'm not interested in working with
you, I'm in it for the relationships.

00:40:54.188 --> 00:40:57.526
at the end of the day, I like, seeing how
my clients are doing, how their family's

00:40:57.531 --> 00:40:59.345
doing, how's their business doing.

00:40:59.645 --> 00:41:03.383
And then I feel, they like to hear the
same thing about me, call up on the

00:41:03.383 --> 00:41:06.946
phone or do a video call or whatever,
and, shoot the shit for a little while.

00:41:06.946 --> 00:41:10.015
And, cuz the NA business has built
on relationships, that's your.

00:41:10.705 --> 00:41:12.475
Your wild card when it comes down.

00:41:12.524 --> 00:41:15.974
if somebody's nitpicking above
price, someone's gonna pick, Hey,

00:41:16.304 --> 00:41:17.564
I got a relationship with Jeremy.

00:41:17.744 --> 00:41:18.794
Jeremy's a great guy.

00:41:19.074 --> 00:41:22.936
I'd rather send him the work than some,
Joe Schmo that has, a couple bucks

00:41:22.936 --> 00:41:24.844
cheaper, who he's never gonna talk to,

00:41:24.914 --> 00:41:29.954
Michael Riley: when you pulled the
trigger to make this pretty change

00:41:29.954 --> 00:41:31.664
in the way you operate your business.

00:41:31.754 --> 00:41:36.914
Did, did you make any sort of
announcement to your, your customer base?

00:41:36.919 --> 00:41:40.304
Like, Hey, we're going to, you know,
fundamentally change the way we

00:41:40.304 --> 00:41:45.014
operate or did you just keep going
on this business as usual with them?

00:41:45.374 --> 00:41:46.593
And did they know.

00:41:46.876 --> 00:41:48.244
Jeremy Siegers: No, I didn't tell anybody.

00:41:48.374 --> 00:41:50.737
until like a project with them came up.

00:41:50.737 --> 00:41:52.412
it's, I didn't make like
an email announcement.

00:41:52.412 --> 00:41:55.658
Hey, I'm doing all this,
changing things up.

00:41:55.958 --> 00:42:02.108
I just went on as business as
usual and they really didn't care.

00:42:02.138 --> 00:42:05.759
it's just because they were in the,
they were in the relationship with me,

00:42:05.775 --> 00:42:10.690
and as long as I was able to take care
of 'em and I had all my ducks in a

00:42:10.690 --> 00:42:16.600
row or whatever I was gonna do to make
sure whatever they needed, got to them.

00:42:17.260 --> 00:42:19.510
when they needed it and
they got what they needed.

00:42:20.350 --> 00:42:21.050
They're fine with that.

00:42:21.054 --> 00:42:24.263
it doesn't matter to them really
who actually made it, I'm still,

00:42:25.223 --> 00:42:26.993
again, the buck still stops at me.

00:42:26.996 --> 00:42:31.386
if I'm gonna have someone else do it, I'm
gonna make sure they're just as good as

00:42:31.416 --> 00:42:35.616
what I was able to the, to knock out for
'em you are still using the same materials

00:42:35.616 --> 00:42:37.146
that the quality is always gonna be there.

00:42:37.146 --> 00:42:40.386
It's just, I'm physically
not making it anymore.

00:42:40.412 --> 00:42:41.397
Dating really care

00:42:42.749 --> 00:42:46.229
Michael Riley: do you ever run across
situations where that does factor

00:42:46.229 --> 00:42:47.759
into a customer's decision making?

00:42:47.809 --> 00:42:48.810
you isn't manufactured?

00:42:49.260 --> 00:42:51.690
Cause I used to get I used to get
that a lot where like, I, there were

00:42:51.690 --> 00:42:53.070
certain bids that I just couldn't win.

00:42:53.070 --> 00:42:54.690
If we weren't gonna manufacture
a hundred percent of

00:42:54.958 --> 00:42:55.918
Jeremy Siegers: You the project in yeah.

00:42:56.131 --> 00:42:59.398
I haven't come across a lot of
'em, but you know, you're, you're

00:42:59.398 --> 00:43:01.442
submitting, a bid for, a larger company.

00:43:01.442 --> 00:43:02.372
They wanna know you,

00:43:02.808 --> 00:43:05.378
they basically wanna know you, everything
down their size of your underwear, and

00:43:05.455 --> 00:43:07.897
just you know, it's like, come on,
you really need to know all this.

00:43:07.897 --> 00:43:10.174
you're gonna get, but I get
it from their point of view,

00:43:10.224 --> 00:43:13.137
Michael Riley: I I think that's a, that's
a, that's a tricky one to overcome.

00:43:13.137 --> 00:43:16.257
I feel like cuz I know a lot of customers,
larger customers, especially they,

00:43:17.307 --> 00:43:19.557
it's not so much about whether you can.

00:43:21.177 --> 00:43:23.217
Produce the, the product
and meet the deadline.

00:43:23.217 --> 00:43:26.847
It's, it's more about, do you have
the capability to to, back it up

00:43:26.847 --> 00:43:29.427
when, you know, when, when the shit
hits the fan and this project goes

00:43:29.427 --> 00:43:32.217
sideways, will your vendor be, be

00:43:32.605 --> 00:43:32.935
Jeremy Siegers: right

00:43:33.507 --> 00:43:36.657
Michael Riley: to, to, make
sure this still goes through on

00:43:37.135 --> 00:43:39.357
Jeremy Siegers: right That's
why, picking and choosing.

00:43:39.420 --> 00:43:42.402
solid relationships with,
suppliers and vendors.

00:43:44.112 --> 00:43:46.625
top of mind, all the time, I'm
not gonna go to someone just

00:43:46.625 --> 00:43:47.795
because of the cheapest price.

00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:51.815
I, I pick my relationships with
my suppliers and vendors just

00:43:51.815 --> 00:43:56.101
as if I pick my clients or my
clients pick me, cuz I know if,

00:43:56.101 --> 00:43:57.181
Bryant Gillespie: that's
a, that's a good point.

00:43:57.181 --> 00:44:02.098
I think, you know, for all these guys
listening on the podcast, I, don't

00:44:02.098 --> 00:44:06.328
know that we would recommend like a
total shift like that, but, you know,

00:44:06.328 --> 00:44:10.413
outsourcing is, oftentimes a dirty
word with customers and clients like,

00:44:10.443 --> 00:44:12.553
Hey, we're not gonna do this in house.

00:44:12.603 --> 00:44:16.323
and, and, you know, I think that's
changing a little bit, or, or it seems

00:44:16.323 --> 00:44:20.108
to at least anecdotally, but yeah,
I was definitely curious about that

00:44:20.108 --> 00:44:21.488
when Mike was asking those questions

00:44:21.496 --> 00:44:23.146
Jeremy Siegers: it's, it's different
structure, different folks.

00:44:23.146 --> 00:44:25.948
I wouldn't recommend what
I'm doing for everybody.

00:44:25.978 --> 00:44:28.437
some people, it just, it all depends.

00:44:29.943 --> 00:44:31.563
What you need or want outta life?

00:44:31.610 --> 00:44:36.560
I personally, I don't
need the big giant shop.

00:44:36.620 --> 00:44:39.470
I don't need the millions of
dollars worth of equipment.

00:44:39.740 --> 00:44:43.502
I don't need all the big employees, the
big overhead, the big nut to crack every

00:44:43.502 --> 00:44:49.136
month, I'm content with what I have
and what I can grow, and then still be.

00:44:50.231 --> 00:44:54.904
Sleep well at night, and not have to worry
about all those giant overhead bills.

00:44:54.907 --> 00:45:00.111
I would like to travel more and
do more stuff where I don't have

00:45:00.111 --> 00:45:02.391
to be worrying about all that.

00:45:02.438 --> 00:45:04.333
there's nothing wrong with
all that, with all that.

00:45:04.386 --> 00:45:05.976
that's perfectly fine,

00:45:06.306 --> 00:45:07.921
Bryant Gillespie: me about
the transition process.

00:45:07.921 --> 00:45:10.261
Like, Hey, today I decide.

00:45:10.341 --> 00:45:12.261
like totally shifting my business.

00:45:12.316 --> 00:45:15.646
how long has that taken you from
the the time that you made the

00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:19.056
Jeremy Siegers: Well, when I first
started, kind of when I started getting

00:45:19.061 --> 00:45:22.024
into it, the first thing was doing
was just building a new website, had a

00:45:22.024 --> 00:45:26.218
new website built kind of, where, you
know, everything's kind of, supplier

00:45:26.218 --> 00:45:29.016
based, where there's nothing that's.

00:45:29.053 --> 00:45:32.909
totally custom that I guess you can say
that's in there, still do custom stuff.

00:45:32.939 --> 00:45:37.314
I, my portfolios, we all have custom
stuff in 'em, but a lot of it just,

00:45:37.314 --> 00:45:42.689
whatever, suppliers are providing,
so, mainly geared towards, the medium.

00:45:42.689 --> 00:45:47.475
to, four to 500 companies where they need,
promotional products, they need, business

00:45:47.475 --> 00:45:52.198
cars, they need flyers where they need
a lot of it, where, so not necessarily

00:45:52.228 --> 00:45:56.459
not necessarily custom, but then, I'll
do still offer the custom, dimensional

00:45:56.459 --> 00:46:00.198
letters, dimensional logos on the wall
or whatever that, I'll get from a, a

00:46:00.198 --> 00:46:04.112
supplier, and other signs that you all
get from a supplier, but, kind of just

00:46:05.792 --> 00:46:10.112
switching gears from, Hey everything's
custom, Hey, we make everything custom

00:46:10.112 --> 00:46:14.174
in house to getting away from that, and.

00:46:14.684 --> 00:46:17.414
That took a little bit of work,
but you still, I gotta build out

00:46:17.414 --> 00:46:20.535
some more pages on the website,
to get some more traffic to it.

00:46:20.583 --> 00:46:21.933
I don't have a lot of pages on there.

00:46:21.933 --> 00:46:23.595
Google likes, more content.

00:46:23.595 --> 00:46:27.135
So working with my web
developer to, to get that going,

00:46:27.135 --> 00:46:29.295
and yes, yes.

00:46:29.355 --> 00:46:31.905
I gotta get blog posts
going and all that stuff.

00:46:31.905 --> 00:46:33.730
And, it's like, I'm not as busy.

00:46:35.590 --> 00:46:36.210
It's like, I.

00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:40.137
Busy, but I'm a different busy now,
I'm not worried about the employees.

00:46:40.137 --> 00:46:41.397
I'm not worried about making stuff.

00:46:41.397 --> 00:46:45.057
I'm not worried about all that, but
I'm more focused on the marketing side.

00:46:45.087 --> 00:46:48.207
Oh wait, now we gotta do
new more website pages.

00:46:48.207 --> 00:46:49.647
Hey, we gotta do more social media.

00:46:49.977 --> 00:46:53.157
So now it's, now I'm wearing
more of a marketing side of

00:46:53.157 --> 00:46:55.177
the hat, as opposed to before.

00:46:55.827 --> 00:46:56.847
I didn't have time to do any of that

00:46:57.038 --> 00:46:57.828
Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, that's a good.

00:46:58.347 --> 00:46:59.157
Jeremy Siegers: rose ain't really thinking

00:46:59.363 --> 00:46:59.663
Bryant Gillespie: what's.

00:46:59.678 --> 00:47:02.528
we've harped on that on some of the
other episodes of the podcast of the

00:47:02.528 --> 00:47:08.138
need to like get out of the production
mindset and, and into that business

00:47:08.138 --> 00:47:11.288
owner, marketing sales side of it

00:47:12.086 --> 00:47:12.416
Jeremy Siegers: Right

00:47:13.256 --> 00:47:13.436
So

00:47:13.556 --> 00:47:15.910
this is I actually, I got a perfect, line.

00:47:16.180 --> 00:47:20.680
I spent too many years working in my
business and not enough years working

00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:26.980
on my business, meaning the marketing
side and all that sort of stuff, And,

00:47:26.980 --> 00:47:28.072
now I do have time to do all that

00:47:28.146 --> 00:47:32.579
Bryant Gillespie: So your new model
is, like very dependent upon like

00:47:32.609 --> 00:47:36.599
the different vendors that you're
working with How are you, like, what's

00:47:36.604 --> 00:47:38.159
your model for vetting these guys?

00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:41.142
Or, you know, how are
you finding new vendors?

00:47:41.142 --> 00:47:42.994
Jeremy Siegers: well I'm
actually a part of, I joined, an

00:47:42.994 --> 00:47:44.464
organization called I promote you.

00:47:44.614 --> 00:47:47.254
They're actually one of the
largest promotional product

00:47:47.374 --> 00:47:48.814
companies in the country.

00:47:48.819 --> 00:47:50.279
They're a top 40, company.

00:47:50.309 --> 00:47:54.389
And, I'm an affiliate of them,
basically they, they have their

00:47:54.394 --> 00:47:56.136
own system in place, they have.

00:47:56.136 --> 00:47:58.958
they got buying power, they got buying
power with all the big, suppliers

00:47:58.958 --> 00:48:03.454
for promotional products and, and,
they do financial backing too.

00:48:03.514 --> 00:48:06.274
Any purchase order I
have, they handle it all.

00:48:06.402 --> 00:48:09.707
so if someone co customer comes to
me with a, a hundred thousand dollars

00:48:09.707 --> 00:48:13.726
order, I don't have to basically
bankroll that, pay the supplier up

00:48:13.726 --> 00:48:15.856
front and wait for, to get paid.

00:48:16.036 --> 00:48:16.816
I promote you'll.

00:48:17.851 --> 00:48:19.561
And then I'll get paid when they get paid.

00:48:19.771 --> 00:48:20.281
So I don't have

00:48:20.401 --> 00:48:21.599
to go get, line of credit.

00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:23.219
I don't have to rack up credit card bills.

00:48:23.219 --> 00:48:26.774
I don't have to do any of that,
which is great, because being, a

00:48:26.774 --> 00:48:29.264
certified disability company, I do
have the opportunity to get in the

00:48:29.264 --> 00:48:32.444
doors of a lot of large companies
with supplier diversity goals.

00:48:32.644 --> 00:48:36.704
And they all have net 30 net 60,
some of 'em have net 90 days.

00:48:37.034 --> 00:48:40.603
I can't bankroll, these large
purchase orders for that long.

00:48:40.608 --> 00:48:41.413
There ain't no way.

00:48:42.163 --> 00:48:45.442
And, I don't feel I should have
to finance 'em either, And, and

00:48:45.442 --> 00:48:48.604
so, so yeah, that was, that was a,
kind of a, big hurdle to get over.

00:48:48.671 --> 00:48:52.793
but I'm there, I'm doing, it's, it's a
good partnership with them, but then,

00:48:52.807 --> 00:48:56.980
other suppliers, like on the sinus side,
being in the business so long, I've,

00:48:56.980 --> 00:49:00.931
back to signs 1 0 1 days, Some were
in there, now these Facebook groups,

00:49:00.970 --> 00:49:05.253
there's a couple good Facebook groups
that have, suppliers on there and,

00:49:05.282 --> 00:49:09.434
building relationships with them too,
And, and, yeah, so it's, it's just,

00:49:09.437 --> 00:49:12.600
you kind of, it's just the tricks at a
trade you you've been in for so long.

00:49:12.760 --> 00:49:16.461
I kind of know, you learn, over the
years and it just it's experience.

00:49:16.491 --> 00:49:18.651
someone's starting out in the game now.

00:49:18.651 --> 00:49:22.161
Hey, I would've been in the, in
the, in the signage print and

00:49:22.161 --> 00:49:25.851
promotion product business, and
I have absolutely no experience.

00:49:25.881 --> 00:49:27.471
I would not recommend this whatsoever.

00:49:27.585 --> 00:49:29.145
Bryant Gillespie: I think
that's important to qualify.

00:49:29.175 --> 00:49:29.325
Yeah.

00:49:29.805 --> 00:49:33.945
This is not financial advice Yeah
If you're new to the business if

00:49:33.945 --> 00:49:35.715
you don't have an understanding of

00:49:35.715 --> 00:49:38.080
signage, do not do this.

00:49:38.211 --> 00:49:43.948
Jeremy Siegers: Uh, Nope And, yeah,
you would not recommend it, maybe you

00:49:43.948 --> 00:49:49.558
have to know a lot about this industry
in order to, to do this sort of thing,

00:49:49.588 --> 00:49:54.441
and, even, yeah, I, yeah, I don't re I
don't recommend it, go work for another

00:49:54.441 --> 00:49:58.214
company for a while, or,  you need years
of experience with, from everything

00:49:58.214 --> 00:50:04.086
from design through production, through,
F fulfillment through installation,

00:50:04.156 --> 00:50:08.321
through permitting, you need all that
experience that, if you don't have it,

00:50:08.321 --> 00:50:11.481
then you're just gonna be per yourself.

00:50:11.481 --> 00:50:13.204
you'll be ending sooner
than you get started.

00:50:13.444 --> 00:50:13.834
So

00:50:14.299 --> 00:50:18.440
Michael Riley: So now that you are on the,
kind of the tail end of this, this pretty

00:50:18.445 --> 00:50:24.620
major transition with your business,
Jeremy, what would you do differently

00:50:25.310 --> 00:50:29.570
with now that you have the benefit
of, you know, 20, 20 hindsight vision?

00:50:30.140 --> 00:50:34.490
Would you undertake this process of, of,
you know, downsizing and getting rid of

00:50:34.490 --> 00:50:36.020
your equipment and staff and everything.

00:50:36.520 --> 00:50:39.010
Would you do anything different
in that process or did you,

00:50:39.610 --> 00:50:40.690
were you pretty happy with

00:50:41.390 --> 00:50:44.089
Jeremy Siegers: Yeah I'm, I'm, you know
I'm, I'm more happy with it, it's just,

00:50:44.173 --> 00:50:48.668
with me having, muscle dystrophy as well,
I have, some health issues that a lot of

00:50:48.758 --> 00:50:53.362
people don't have, And so it's, I'm able
to still, kind of build my own schedule.

00:50:53.362 --> 00:50:57.205
Hey, if I can't get up at, 6:00 AM to
go to work, or if I have a doctor's

00:50:57.205 --> 00:50:59.733
appointment or if I'm, if I'm, got.

00:51:00.533 --> 00:51:04.271
Aches and pains where I need to,
take a break at lunchtime and go

00:51:04.811 --> 00:51:07.407
stretch out in, my recliner for
a little while I can do that.

00:51:07.407 --> 00:51:10.317
when I had all that other stuff going
on, I wasn't able to do that, and I'm

00:51:10.317 --> 00:51:13.610
getting older too, it's just, the, the
older you get, everybody's got more aches

00:51:13.640 --> 00:51:15.117
and pains, but, we might are a little bit

00:51:15.117 --> 00:51:15.477
different.

00:51:16.107 --> 00:51:16.407
Yeah.

00:51:17.952 --> 00:51:20.862
Mine are a little bit different than
everybody else's, but so I'm kind of,

00:51:21.172 --> 00:51:27.117
adapting, my, my, my disability kind
of, progresses as the year years go on.

00:51:27.387 --> 00:51:31.227
So I'm adapting my, my
actual life to my disability.

00:51:31.257 --> 00:51:37.317
And I've been now adapting my
business life to my disability.

00:51:37.317 --> 00:51:43.118
And, it's going, it's going well, taking
on,  back to, I first, got this, I, idea,

00:51:43.202 --> 00:51:47.240
the ultimate goal was to, Hey, I'm gonna,
get in the, the door of, these huge

00:51:47.240 --> 00:51:52.573
corporations and, that was kind of my, my,
my big goal is actually, I'm kind of my

00:51:52.573 --> 00:51:58.887
main focus, to do those, those, those huge
companies, but it's just, I'm learning.

00:51:58.908 --> 00:52:03.789
this, 2000, 22 that's, it's a lot tougher
than I thought, these huge companies,

00:52:03.794 --> 00:52:08.456
they have departments, many departments

00:52:09.096 --> 00:52:10.910
Bryant Gillespie: a,
challenge to navigate for you

00:52:10.910 --> 00:52:11.120
then.

00:52:11.948 --> 00:52:15.998
Jeremy Siegers: yeah Yeah It's just,
it's just, it's, it's it's time consuming

00:52:16.058 --> 00:52:20.086
where it's like, can't we just, just
get, get an order going here, and then,

00:52:20.086 --> 00:52:21.946
Bryant Gillespie: It kinda sounds
like one of the conversations we were

00:52:21.946 --> 00:52:25.525
having, between Mike and Peter and
I about, customers versus accounts,

00:52:25.715 --> 00:52:28.500
it seems like you've made the
shift, as a, a smaller sign shop.

00:52:28.500 --> 00:52:33.210
A lot of the customers that you're serving
are smaller businesses too And that.

00:52:33.790 --> 00:52:35.560
That makes it easy to
do business with them.

00:52:35.560 --> 00:52:39.590
There's only one decision maker but
obviously, it's not a large corporation.

00:52:39.590 --> 00:52:42.770
That's just going to continually
feed you business over and

00:52:43.013 --> 00:52:43.343
Jeremy Siegers: right

00:52:43.430 --> 00:52:43.700
Bryant Gillespie: So.

00:52:44.393 --> 00:52:48.035
Jeremy Siegers: right Yeah So, but on the
flip side, it's like, so yeah, dealing

00:52:48.035 --> 00:52:52.634
with all these different groups are pain
on the butt, but ideally once my foot's in

00:52:52.634 --> 00:52:57.311
the door, I'm in with one group and then,
the ultimate goal is, Hey, well, that

00:52:57.491 --> 00:52:59.681
group then refers me to another group.

00:52:59.681 --> 00:53:01.061
And an app group refers me another group.

00:53:01.061 --> 00:53:04.481
And actually I'm doing work with all these
different groups in the same company and

00:53:04.691 --> 00:53:06.191
that just, they all got their own budgets.

00:53:06.746 --> 00:53:07.076
For

00:53:07.211 --> 00:53:08.681
purchasing, whoever they need.

00:53:08.711 --> 00:53:12.652
So that's, that's the goal, and that's
what I'm working on, but I'm still not,

00:53:14.062 --> 00:53:17.632
I'm not focusing solely on working with
the large corporations anymore, cuz

00:53:17.632 --> 00:53:24.049
they're, it's just, their buying isn't
as, consistent as I needed to be, Hey,

00:53:24.049 --> 00:53:27.859
Jeremy were ever thinking about, doing
a project in, in, in a third quarter of,

00:53:27.936 --> 00:53:30.846
2023, it's like, well, what about now?

00:53:30.868 --> 00:53:31.725
it's like, come on,

00:53:32.628 --> 00:53:35.838
Bryant Gillespie: Yeah I think that's a
a challenge for everybody out there Yeah

00:53:36.295 --> 00:53:39.667
Jeremy Siegers: the bills gotta get paid,
So it's like I still gotta focus on,

00:53:39.667 --> 00:53:44.708
the small, the medium, even large size
companies that still have somewhat of.

00:53:44.758 --> 00:53:49.038
a easier, purchasing, program, I guess
you can say where you're dealing with

00:53:49.038 --> 00:53:53.088
only a few people and they need stuff
throughout the year, every year,

00:53:53.088 --> 00:53:57.168
and it's easy, and those are the
ones that, keep the bills paid and,

00:53:57.206 --> 00:53:59.151
keep the, keep the cash flow going.

00:53:59.151 --> 00:54:01.789
And, and then working with
the, the, the huge companies.

00:54:01.789 --> 00:54:04.549
That's that's, I guess that's just
like an extra perk now where it's

00:54:04.549 --> 00:54:07.594
like, I'm still gonna focus on it.

00:54:07.594 --> 00:54:10.244
I'm just not gonna spend as
much time focusing on it.

00:54:10.442 --> 00:54:12.212
Bryant Gillespie: Well, it sounds
like you got a plan for moving forward

00:54:12.221 --> 00:54:13.631
what are you most excited about?

00:54:15.676 --> 00:54:18.986
with this new model versus your
previous model of, Hey, I've

00:54:18.986 --> 00:54:20.216
got overhead, I've got all this

00:54:20.216 --> 00:54:20.906
stuff.

00:54:20.996 --> 00:54:21.146
What.

00:54:21.554 --> 00:54:23.830
Jeremy Siegers: well, once I
have, like a good system, once I

00:54:23.830 --> 00:54:25.480
get the, the marketing in place.

00:54:25.514 --> 00:54:27.503
where I can get, systems in place.

00:54:27.503 --> 00:54:30.802
cuz for me right now, it's, it's just
about marketing, it's just about,

00:54:30.849 --> 00:54:34.435
spreading a word, building more
relationships, where the new

00:54:34.435 --> 00:54:39.291
relationship come, come in and and
they're, they're built on my new

00:54:39.321 --> 00:54:44.183
kind of platform here, where I can
kind of streamline everything, And I.

00:54:45.473 --> 00:54:46.898
The relationships in place.

00:54:46.909 --> 00:54:49.759
I have backend financing in place.

00:54:49.759 --> 00:54:53.419
I have everything in
place to be successful.

00:54:53.449 --> 00:54:57.859
It's just bringing a more clientele
to keep that rolling and growing.

00:54:57.859 --> 00:55:01.061
And, and I'm not saying I'm never gonna
hire any more people again, I'm just

00:55:01.061 --> 00:55:02.831
gonna hire them in different roles.

00:55:02.831 --> 00:55:03.581
I'm not gonna hire.

00:55:04.181 --> 00:55:05.771
For production.

00:55:05.771 --> 00:55:07.061
I'm not gonna hire them for that.

00:55:07.091 --> 00:55:10.566
I'll be hiring them for like, being
like an account manager or, to, to

00:55:10.571 --> 00:55:14.778
manage, or maybe sales people or
something like that, where it would

00:55:14.778 --> 00:55:16.138
be a little bit different of a role

00:55:16.188 --> 00:55:16.458
Bryant Gillespie: Cool.

00:55:16.878 --> 00:55:20.934
Well, I really appreciate you, you jumping
on with this Jeremy I've always really

00:55:20.934 --> 00:55:24.141
admired like your branding and like
the marketing that you do, I think your

00:55:24.141 --> 00:55:28.757
site is a good example of what, shops
in the industry should be targeting.

00:55:29.297 --> 00:55:33.007
But, I think this is a, a
great story and, I really like.

00:55:33.682 --> 00:55:37.642
like this transformation of
like, Hey, what I had previously,

00:55:37.642 --> 00:55:38.812
wasn't working for me.

00:55:38.812 --> 00:55:44.362
So I changed it And now the, the
businesses built around your lifestyle

00:55:44.367 --> 00:55:49.462
instead of like us building our
lifestyle around the business.

00:55:49.462 --> 00:55:54.202
I, I think that's the, the big point
that, that you drove home for me today

00:55:54.202 --> 00:56:00.292
anyway, is, if you are a shop owner
and you're stressed out, you've got.

00:56:01.102 --> 00:56:03.722
All this overhead, you're
working too many hours.

00:56:03.722 --> 00:56:07.562
You don't enjoy it, make a change
start building the business around your

00:56:07.562 --> 00:56:07.982
lifestyle.

00:56:07.982 --> 00:56:10.058
Jeremy Siegers: cause there, there has
to be, There has to be an end game.

00:56:10.118 --> 00:56:12.702
for everybody, where do you
see yourself in 20, 30 years?

00:56:12.721 --> 00:56:15.974
are you gonna, you gonna sell your company
or, I or are you gonna do something else?

00:56:16.034 --> 00:56:17.127
I do you wanna travel more?

00:56:17.132 --> 00:56:19.017
Do you wanna spend time
with your family more?

00:56:19.074 --> 00:56:23.107
it's just, yes, you wanna be successful,
but there's always a price on success.

00:56:23.203 --> 00:56:28.174
there's, there's always, you're losing
something somewhere, if you want to keep

00:56:28.174 --> 00:56:29.494
growing and growing and growing and grow.

00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:33.203
your family's suffering, you're,
you're losing friendships.

00:56:33.203 --> 00:56:35.033
You're not spending as much
time with your friends either.

00:56:35.513 --> 00:56:36.773
I love doing it.

00:56:36.778 --> 00:56:39.263
I love my buddies calling
me up on a Tuesday.

00:56:39.263 --> 00:56:40.733
Hey Jeremy, Hey, you wanna
have a few beers tonight?

00:56:41.856 --> 00:56:42.185
Sure.

00:56:42.185 --> 00:56:42.815
I can do that.

00:56:42.840 --> 00:56:45.581
outta a Tuesday, it's like, cause I don't
have to worry about, being at a shower

00:56:45.611 --> 00:56:48.675
first thing in the morning or having to
worry about, but that's, it's, it's my

00:56:48.675 --> 00:56:52.829
personal choice where, where my mindset
is, where, Still wanna be successful,

00:56:52.829 --> 00:56:54.479
still want to do all sorts of stuff.

00:56:54.479 --> 00:56:57.299
It's just, is it just doing
it in a different way?

00:56:57.422 --> 00:56:57.692
Bryant Gillespie: So

00:56:57.932 --> 00:57:01.485
for anybody who might be interested
in, checking out the website or

00:57:01.485 --> 00:57:04.285
learning more or getting in touch with
you, you know, how can they contact

00:57:06.941 --> 00:57:12.311
Jeremy Siegers: yeah Well you can visit
sharp mall.com, S H a R P M I L l.com.

00:57:12.323 --> 00:57:13.823
or you can, you can email me.

00:57:13.883 --> 00:57:17.693
I Jeremy, J E R E M Y charnel.com.

00:57:19.358 --> 00:57:22.688
or checking me out a LinkedIn or
I'm on all these, these Facebook

00:57:22.688 --> 00:57:24.788
groups for sign and graphics too.

00:57:24.828 --> 00:57:27.843
Bryant Gillespie: Well, yeah, thanks again
for coming on man Uh, really appreciate

00:57:27.843 --> 00:57:32.043
it And uh, yeah looking forward to,
to, seeing where you go with this thing

00:57:34.630 --> 00:57:35.200
Jeremy Siegers: Awesome, man.

00:57:35.260 --> 00:57:35.950
All right, take care

00:57:36.003 --> 00:57:36.633
Bryant Gillespie: we'll see you, Jeremy.

00:57:37.353 --> 00:57:37.533
Bye.

00:57:38.350 --> 00:57:38.530
Jeremy Siegers: All right

00:57:38.530 --> 00:57:38.770
bye.

00:57:38.831 --> 00:57:40.811
Bryant Gillespie: so
closing this one out guys.

00:57:40.816 --> 00:57:42.509
I really enjoyed this episode.

00:57:42.534 --> 00:57:45.949
I think Jeremy's got a great
story so let's get into

00:57:46.249 --> 00:57:48.139
rapid fire takeaways, Peter.

00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:50.249
He's not here.

00:57:50.249 --> 00:57:52.462
So, Mike, what's your
takeaway on today, man?

00:57:52.472 --> 00:57:58.946
Michael Riley: I like that he ended on a
work life balance note, which I feel like

00:57:58.946 --> 00:58:03.098
every one of these conversations we have
goes back to, people seeking out better

00:58:03.228 --> 00:58:05.118
work life balance, which I'm happy to see.

00:58:05.166 --> 00:58:05.931
I hate the.

00:58:06.996 --> 00:58:09.046
The grind till you die mentality.

00:58:09.048 --> 00:58:12.097
and I that's been so pervasive,
I think, in, in work culture

00:58:12.097 --> 00:58:13.177
in general for so long.

00:58:13.221 --> 00:58:17.425
I'm really happy to see people, trying
to change their situation and adapt, like

00:58:17.425 --> 00:58:19.697
you said, their work life to fit their.

00:58:20.547 --> 00:58:22.617
You know their lifestyle
versus trying to adapt their

00:58:22.617 --> 00:58:23.917
lifestyle to fit their work life.

00:58:23.933 --> 00:58:27.593
so for me, I think the biggest
takeaway there was, this is a great

00:58:27.593 --> 00:58:30.953
way to achieve some of that work
life balance and de-stress your life

00:58:30.953 --> 00:58:34.536
a little bit and, achieve some of
that, personal life outside of work.

00:58:34.630 --> 00:58:35.590
enjoyment and balance.

00:58:35.643 --> 00:58:38.817
I know for me, It's a huge reason why
I do what I do, where I work, from home

00:58:38.817 --> 00:58:43.527
in my pajamas, cuz I it's, I don't,
that's the lifestyle that I want.

00:58:43.551 --> 00:58:45.759
I want the freedom to do what
I want when I want to do it.

00:58:45.759 --> 00:58:49.969
and anything that you can
do to work towards that goal

00:58:49.969 --> 00:58:50.719
you're trying to achieve.

00:58:50.747 --> 00:58:53.363
and remember that we're, no matter what
we do, whether we work for somebody

00:58:53.363 --> 00:58:56.630
else or own a business, that it's only
a means to an end so that we have.

00:58:56.630 --> 00:58:57.580
the lifestyle that we want.

00:58:57.580 --> 00:59:01.101
So this seems like a great avenue
to pursue, to, to achieve that.

00:59:03.095 --> 00:59:03.515
Bryant Gillespie: Out.

00:59:05.195 --> 00:59:09.365
It's all about lifestyle
no, I, yeah, I agree.

00:59:09.365 --> 00:59:11.306
I like, I was gonna say the same thing.

00:59:11.352 --> 00:59:15.402
so I don't know that I have a great
rapid fire takeaway out of that,

00:59:15.402 --> 00:59:19.512
like the Gary V hustle, porn stuff.

00:59:19.512 --> 00:59:21.432
Like you gotta be grinding.

00:59:21.457 --> 00:59:21.912
you gotta.

00:59:22.797 --> 00:59:24.057
The 80 hours a week.

00:59:24.327 --> 00:59:25.167
Like I've done that.

00:59:25.167 --> 00:59:27.144
And I still do that sometimes.

00:59:27.175 --> 00:59:31.645
when I've got, sometimes I've just gotta
crunch on a project and get it done,

00:59:31.975 --> 00:59:35.035
but on the whole it's not sustainable.

00:59:35.040 --> 00:59:37.105
It's not the way that I wanna work.

00:59:37.505 --> 00:59:38.400
Michael Riley: I totally know
what you're trying to say.

00:59:38.425 --> 00:59:41.318
I remember at my shop, like I, I
kept a blanket and pillow and I

00:59:41.318 --> 00:59:43.868
can't tell you how many times I
slept on the floor under my desk.

00:59:44.558 --> 00:59:47.356
Not necessarily because I had
to, but because I felt like

00:59:47.356 --> 00:59:48.526
that was a badge of honor.

00:59:48.526 --> 00:59:52.426
Like I'm an entrepreneur and I don't
leave my office ever look how hard I work.

00:59:52.426 --> 00:59:56.371
And that's such an unhealthy
mentality to, to maintain.

00:59:56.371 --> 00:59:59.281
And you will, you'll hit a wall
and flame out spectacularly.

00:59:59.281 --> 01:00:00.301
If you, if.

01:00:01.516 --> 01:00:02.326
Do that too long.

01:00:02.326 --> 01:00:02.866
Yeah, you're right.

01:00:02.866 --> 01:00:05.739
the whole hustle and grind
mentality, that's been, viral.

01:00:05.768 --> 01:00:09.748
I don't know what the right word for it
is, but it's, there's more to life than

01:00:09.748 --> 01:00:12.752
working and, I think a lot of people
lose sight of the fact that they start a

01:00:12.752 --> 01:00:14.432
business and become entrepreneurs because.

01:00:16.412 --> 01:00:19.243
Because they're trying to achieve a
better lifestyle, but then they don't.

01:00:19.243 --> 01:00:22.665
Then they work themselves to death and
that's completely counterintuitive and

01:00:22.875 --> 01:00:25.893
works against the whole goal that you
set out for, even if that goal is only

01:00:25.893 --> 01:00:28.582
subconscious and you don't even realize
that's why you went into business.

01:00:28.582 --> 01:00:29.722
That's why everybody
goes into the business.

01:00:29.727 --> 01:00:32.635
There's no other reason to go in business
than to control your own destiny.

01:00:32.945 --> 01:00:33.305
Bryant Gillespie: yeah.

01:00:33.395 --> 01:00:34.565
You want a better environment?

01:00:34.925 --> 01:00:36.395
That's exactly what I was trying to say.

01:00:36.395 --> 01:00:37.575
I just couldn't say it.

01:00:37.596 --> 01:00:38.251
yeah, yes.

01:00:38.256 --> 01:00:39.396
Michael Riley: cups of
coffee have you had today?

01:00:39.571 --> 01:00:43.372
Bryant Gillespie: I don't know,
like six, but no it's no, it's like

01:00:43.707 --> 01:00:44.347
Michael Riley: just need an IV.

01:00:44.718 --> 01:00:47.197
Just, just pump it, pump it
into your veins at this point.

01:00:47.757 --> 01:00:50.152
Bryant Gillespie: so I, if you
would like to be a guest on the

01:00:50.152 --> 01:00:55.042
show, definitely shoot us an email
at, Hey, better sign, shop.com.

01:00:55.047 --> 01:00:58.882
Or if you just have questions or
topic suggestions, shoot us an email.

01:00:59.482 --> 01:01:01.462
We'll probably email you back.

01:01:02.842 --> 01:01:03.712
We're good like that.

01:01:06.202 --> 01:01:06.802
All right, Mike.

01:01:08.152 --> 01:01:11.797
Hopefully next week, we'll have Peter
back from the galaxy far, far away.

01:01:11.797 --> 01:01:15.445
So maybe next week we'll
have a new nickname for you.

01:01:15.525 --> 01:01:17.351
Michael Riley: every week,
my identity is different.

01:01:17.351 --> 01:01:18.833
it's hard to keep up with myself here.

01:01:19.158 --> 01:01:19.878
Bryant Gillespie: sounds stressful.

01:01:19.908 --> 01:01:21.888
That's why you're you have no hair left?

01:01:21.888 --> 01:01:22.548
We can't come up

01:01:22.613 --> 01:01:23.183
Michael Riley: it's true.

01:01:27.078 --> 01:01:27.678
Bryant Gillespie: All right, guys.

01:01:28.188 --> 01:01:28.638
Thanks.

01:01:29.058 --> 01:01:29.418
See it.

01:01:30.383 --> 01:01:31.293
Michael Riley: goodbye, everybody.