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You're listening to The Bible Guys,
a podcast where a couple of friends talk

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about the Bible in fun, in
practical ways. Hey, welcome to the

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Bible Guys. I'm Chris, this
is Jeff, and we are glad that

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you joined us. Absolutely, this
is going to be a good episode.

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You picked a good day. Yes, and you know what it isn't just

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because of the scripture, because that
wins, but it's also because of our

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riveting segment. This segment is well, it's going to be a challenge.

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Did you look at it already?
Not really, it's one must go.

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Yes, And so we have two
options that are going to be presented,

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and you have to decide which one
stays and which one goes forever. Right,

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it can be established whether it's for
the world or whether it's just for

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the other I think Okay, let's
say it's for the world. Okay,

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you want to say it's for the
world. I do, But the catches

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that we're doing the answer for the
other person. Oh, then let's keep

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it to the person. Then,
oh, just to the person. You

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never ever get this again, Yes, you specifically, like the whole world

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can enjoy it, but you will
never so what we're supposed to be doing

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is guessing what the other person would
guess, would would choose. Does that

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make sense? Oh? I was
interpreting it as guessing for the other person.

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Right, What we're doing is we're
guessing what these other one would If

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I were to say hamburgers are tacos, I would say, Jeff would rather

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have hamburgers for the rest of his
life than tacos and tacos. That's right,

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that's right, that's what we're doing. But but but but hey,

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hang on, hang on. This
is important now because now you're thinking about

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punishing the order, or if you
want to make it for the whole world,

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then I would have to interpret it
as not just Jeff's experience. But

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am I guessing what Jeff would guess
for the world? Yeah? Or am

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I just guessing what Jeff would guess
for Jeff? I really? So we've

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already had this conversation, I know, I know, which is why it's

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important. Let's establish it up front, buddy. So, so I would

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say, these are for us,
what would we prefer? I agree?

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How the world to work from that? I agree? I agree? Okay,

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So here we go. Okay,
So the first one is Lord of

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the Rings are Star Wars. Okay, that's an easy one for both of

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us. I think, I I
I want to say, yes, I

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think i'm I think I know how
easy it is. Yeah. Yeah,

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so you you you would choose Star
Wars to last forever, yes, because

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you can't stand Lord of the Rings. And I would choose choose Lord of

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the Rings because because you love Lord
of the Rings. I love Lord of

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the Rings. Yea, yeah,
yeah, you read the books and love

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it. I read the book.
I read the entire trilogy of the Lord

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of the Rings. Yeah, six
or seven times. I read the Hobbit

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eight times. Wow. Yeah.
So yeah, So so that was good

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you when you said how easy it
was going to be, that was an

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easy one. I was like,
I hope you were thinking what I'm thinking.

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Yeah. And by the way,
uh, Lord of the Rings.

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You know, my only problem was
so actually we were getting rid of one

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so for you, the one that
so it's called one must go. Oh

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yeah yeah, so I just accidentally
got rid of Star Wars for you forever.

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Now, I'm sorry. So the
one that has to go, the

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one that has to go for you, yes, the Lord of the Rings.

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Because you choose Star Wars and the
one that would have to go for

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me as Star Wars, because I
would choose the lad Rings. And just

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to be clear, I've never read
Lord of the Rings, and I realized

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that if I would have read it, the movies would have been ten times

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better for me. Yes, I
can't pay attention. No, no,

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I just rewatched them. I just
rewatched them go on line. I know

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online is full of dumb people.
I don't pay attention to comments. Well,

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I watch it because I agree with
your critique of Lord of the Rings.

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Well you didn't pay attention. It's
it was too hard to follow.

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Yeah, there's a ring that has
to be destroyed. It's not that hard,

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dude. I hate to ruin him
for you. There's a bad guys

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a ring. There's a bad guy
and some good guys, and the good

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guys are going to try to destroy
this ring. Yeah, it's not real.

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Complix slowed down Copernicus, and I
hope I didn't ruin the movie for

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everybody. Okay, okay, I
just watched all those movies on the airplane.

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I'm sure I've been in the plane
sixty hours in the last thirty days,

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and so I've watched all those movies
again. Right here we go.

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The next one is Chinese food or
Mexican food. Which one would Jeff rather

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get rid of? It must go, it must go. I'm going to

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say, you would rather get rid
of the Chinese food. You love both

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of them, but you cannot do
without Mexican food. That's correct, Okay,

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And I would say the same for
you. That is correct. Okay,

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there you go. Yay for two, buddy, Okay, okay,

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all right. So the next one
is which one which one must go?

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The office or Seinfeld? This is
tough. I would say that you would

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say Seinfeld must go. Yes,
I agree, and uh, this is

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tough. But I'm see I don't
ever recall you quoting Seinfeld. But I

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don't know if you're a true blue
office person either. So there's a part

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of me. I don't really do
a lot of TV. I know,

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I know, I know, But
there's a part of me. I'm gonna

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play this out here. There's a
part of me that thinks that you would

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rather the office to go because Seinfeld
was so clever and influential in culture.

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So like we have actually like terms
that we use, like when they when

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they say double dip a chip,
Oh don't double dip. Well, that

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came from Seinfeld. And then and
then there's and then there's there's other things

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as well. Uh isms, there's
a bunch of isms that really affected our

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culture from Seinfeld. You know what, now that I'm talking out loud,

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I'm gonna say that that's what you
would choose. You're gonna say the Office

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must go. And you would choose
Seinfeld because of the cleverness of it.

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That's correct, That is correct.
And you would choose Seinfeld must go because

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of the Office. Because so the
Office didn't have the same kind of impact

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when it was playing. The Office
was rediscovered. It's the replace, right,

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So this generation, this generation loves
the office, whereas the Office was

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popular when it was going on,
but it wasn't an obsession. And now

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this generation loves the Office. And
kind of which Seinfeld, which is kind

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of like Friends as well. Friends, Friends became way more popular on Netflix,

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binging. I don't know, I
don't think that's true. Really,

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Friends was the most popular thing that
ever happened on television up to that.

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Yeah, you're probably right, except
maybe mash maybe I forget it. Yeah,

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but anyways, be mad, Okay, chick fil A or McDonald's.

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Oh, this is a tough one. It's very tough. I mean,

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you get rid of Ronald or do
you get rid of Jesus Chicken? Because

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that's those are the choices, all
right. Why don't you guess for me

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first? I would say that you
would get rid of McDonald's. That is

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correct, Okay, and tell me
why because chick fil a is so good

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and you lived in Georgia for a
while. That is exactly correct. Yes,

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yes, I have this connection to
Chick fil A because I knew try

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Kathy true Dan Cathy, his daughter
went to our youth group for a little

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while. And so yeah, I've
been in this house and everything else.

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And I have good friends, very
good friends, like five of them that

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own their own Chick fil A stores. I know a lot about the business.

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I've been to Chick fil a corporate
events and uh, not to mention

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it's it's pretty dang amazing, right, And I would for you, Uh,

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there's no competition. As much as
you love Chick fil A, it

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has to go because McDonald's is the
essential of your morning. It's my morning

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every morning, yep, that's right. Yeah, And it's the breakfast part

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and McDonald's got me going in my
life and in my career. That's right,

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you worked at me. I worked. So I worked for an operator

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that owned a bunch of McDonald's.
He had a bunch and his regional manager

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was phenomenal at picking leaders and developing
leaders. And so in our system,

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you know, most McDonald's aren't this
way, but in our system, they

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were great at developing young leaders,
you know. And so we won all

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kinds of awards and all that kind
of stuff. So it was a really

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good experience for me working for McDonald's. So that's it. And then the

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last one, goodness, the last
one is we have to say one must

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go, which this is gonna be
one of the most devastating segments in Chris's

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entire experience to have to have to
choose between Zach Efron in High School Musical

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or Zach Graffron in The Greatest Showman
and one must Go Forever, One must

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Go Forever. God, I'm gonna
vote they can both go. So so

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let me just get mine out of
the way. But we have to wrestle

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with maybe you have to get you
gotta follow the rules. Ja Okay,

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okay, picks for me. That's
what would you pick? Pick for me?

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Which one would I rather? So, yep, you're you're Craig.

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You have to did you have to
pick? What? It's the room?

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Okay, No, you're picking for
me. Okay, So that's okay,

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this is a long saving were gonna
go, Yes, Okay, I'm gonna

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say your answer and my answer are
going to be the same. Okay that

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zac Efron in High School Musical can
go because the zac Efron and Greatest Showman

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was a little bit more sure,
a little bit more impressive. The movie

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itself was way more enjoyable for us
as individuals. Zac Efron is, you

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know that it's that high school teeng
music y girly you know, girls swoon

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because he's you know, young and
head hair and all that. So I

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think I think that the Greatest Showman
is is more of a me and you

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show and way more me because I'm
a musical guy. Okay, But I

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would say Greatest Showman can stay.
And that's how I was going to pick

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it for you too. Is I
was going to say that I thought that

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you would choose the Greatest Showman.
Yea, I would. I would just

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because the one that would stay.
I like it better. Okay, it's

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way more relevant for me. So
if you're new to the episode or to

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the show, I don't know.
Back before this was even called The Bible,

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guys, right, a segment came
out. It was early daily of

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who if a movie was made in
the inevitable movie that will be made of

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Chris Sarba's life, Who's going to
play Chris Starba? And he didn't even

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think twice about it. It was
Zach Effron. That's right, right,

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that's right. And so since then
this is been a recurring joke. And

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so thank you so much, Desirae
that that is the that's the choice that

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we had to make today. It
was really funny. But it did break

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your heart to have to eliminate him
at all, didn't it It did?

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It? Is sure? Yeah,
okay, exact's the best. So okay,

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so we are in. That was
so satisfying. That's the longest segment

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we've ever had. Okay, ever, it's the best. That's the best,

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okay. So John, Chapter twenty
is we're wrapping up these appearances of

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Jesus as we're coming out of the
resurrection, and so he met with Mary.

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He met now with the disciples.
But then in John chapter twenty,

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verse twenty four, it says one
of the disciples, one of the twelve

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disciples, Thomas, nicknamed the twin
or Didamus is the Greek word, there

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was not with the others when Jesus
came, and they told him, we've

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seen the Lord. But he replied, I won't believe it unless I see

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the nail wounds in his hands,
and I put my fingers into them and

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place my hand in the wound in
his side. Eight days later the disciples

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were together again, and this time
Thomas was with them, and the doors

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were locked. But suddenly, as
before, Jesus was standing among them.

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Peace be with you, he said, And then he said the Thomas,

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put your finger here and look at
my hands. Put your hand in the

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wound in my side. Don't be
faithful faithless any longer. Believe my Lord

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and my God, Thomas exclaimed.
And then Jesus told him, you believe

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because you've seen me. Blessed are
those who believe without seeing me. The

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disciples saw Jesus do many other miraculous
signs in addition to the ones recorded in

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this book. But these are written
so that you may continue to believe that

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Jesus is the Messiah, the Son
of God, and that by believing in

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him you will have life by the
name, by the power of his name.

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M hm. So I'll cool.
Way to go John for announcing that,

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because that's job John. So let
me start off, because we have

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a lot to talk about here with
the bodily resurrection of Christ. But before

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we do, I taught this passage
one time and I was doing like a

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deep dive, and I remember teaching
this and ever since, ever since,

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this discussion, after my teaching with
my teenagers of all things, right,

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you know, in other words,
like it wasn't you know, I didn't

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teach it in big church. I
taught it to like sixty kids, and

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we had this in depth discussion about
the phrase eight days later. Have you

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ever heard that angle? No?
Okay, the fact that the fact that

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Jesus waited eight days to come back
and satisfy Thomas's curiosity, So it says

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that Thomas was not there. So
we're assuming because it doesn't mention everybody else.

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So it's a safe assumption to say
that Thomas may have been the only

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one who wasn't there, right,
Right, So everybody else comes back.

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At least he was the only one
that wasn't there that didn't believe. Yeah

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yeah, maybe yeah, maybe that's
correct. That could be it too.

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But either way though, that means
that everybody else believes right, right,

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And and yet Jesus didn't come back
the next day. He didn't come back,

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you know, the next day,
the next day, the next day,

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eight days later, and never explains
where Jesus was for a days.

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Jesus, I mean, what else
could he have to do? Right,

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appear to the Romans, what appeared
to you know, find another Inaus road

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somewhere, like where was he?
Why did you wait? Eight full days?

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That kind of thing, right,
And it just and it just goes

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to show you that, you know, it's not as if Jesus didn't care

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about Thomas's struggle, because when he
appeared, he had this interaction with Thomas

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that was extremely loving, gave him
a lot of attention. Right, goes

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up to him and says, Thomas
believe. You know, First of all,

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Jesus knew that he didn't believe.
And then he says, feel my

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you know, feel my nail scars, feel my you know, my side,

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And and so he says, you
know, in believe, And then

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of course Thomas has this unbelievable you
know moment where he where he proclaims that

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of course Jesus is Lord and anyway, it's just, it's just it has

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to do with God's timing. Where
is God when I'm begging him for my

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answer? Where is God? I
need? I don't need him to show

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up a year from now. I
need to show I needed to show up

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right now. I need him to
answer this thing right now. I don't

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want to look back or wait or
be delayed. And it's like, what

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is God busy doing? Doesn't he
hear me? Doesn't he know about my

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doubts or my situation? And and
it just goes to show you that in

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those eight days, God knew exactly
what Thomas was feeling, and God cared,

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and God had just as much attention
and love and and and and all

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those things for Thomas in those eight
days as he did the day that he

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showed up. And that's the point. So it was really cool. Well,

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the along those lines, so you
were ahead of your time teaching your

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teenagers that along those lines. The
Life Application Study Bible notes for this passage

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say Jesus wasn't hard on Thomas his
doubts. Despite his skepticism, Thomas was

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still loyal to the believers and to
Jesus himself. Some people need the doubt

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before they believe. If doubt leads
to questions, and questions lead to answers,

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and if the answers are accepted,
then doubt has done good work.

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It's when doubt becomes stubbornness, and
stubbornness becomes a prideful lifestyle. The doubt

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harms faith when you doubt. Don't
stop there. Let your doubt deepen your

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faith as you continue to search the
answers. Isn't that great? That's great?

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And so during that time God could
have allowed Thomas to struggle with this

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thing because everybody else is so convinced, and he's thinking, I don't know,

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I don't know how I feel.
So we do know what he was

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like on day one when they say
we saw the Lord and he goes,

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ah, I'm not gonna believe it. Let's I touch him, But we

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don't know how he felt on day
two, or on day six, or

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on day seven. Right that doubt
might have been exploring. He might have

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been asking questions at that point,
how do you know? How do you

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know? You guys weren't just hallucinating, right, He could have been doing

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an investigation. We don't know in
that, But for you and me,

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we can allow our doubt to lead
to stubbornness where we go absolutely I'm conn

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atheists will do this. Atheists will
say there is no God, which is

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incredibly prideful in the idea that it's
possible for you to know everything. It's

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not possible for any human to know
everything. So the most intellectually honest atheists,

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atheists would actually admit that they're agnostics, saying I'm not sure I can

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know there's a God. That's fair. But to declare, you know,

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Christopher Hitchins declaring there absolutely is no
God makes you Your claim is you know

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everything, and you've been everywhere,
and you've experienced every possible thing, and

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you've thought every possible thought, and
you've explored every possible avenue to disprove that

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there's a God. So instead,
here, in this situation, instead of

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the doubts leading you to make these
big, grand, strong declarations that there

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is no doubt, this stubborn or
that there is no God. I mean,

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because you're so stubborn in your belief, Let your disbelief or your doubt

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lead you towards a more intellectually honest
investigation. Try to discover are there reasonable

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answers? And of course, after
a period of time, Jesus does show

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back up just for Thomas. It
seems like, and this passage just seems

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like he shows up just for Thomas. Who knows? And I really believe

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that an honest doubt that leads to
honest questions will bring you to an honest

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encounter with Jesus every time. I
don't know that I've ever met anybody who

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really dug into an honest exploration of
Christ that didn't find you right. Well,

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whether he showed up just for Thomas
or not, one thing is clear.

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He shows up, and it says
the disciples were together again, which

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means everybody was there. But the
only conversation that Jesus has in this passage

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is only with Thomas. So,
in other words, everybody was watching this,

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everybody was witnessing it, everybody was
there. Jesus din't acknowledge anybody else.

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Whether or not he showed up just
for Thomas or not, I think

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it's pretty safe to assume Jesus's main
concern was Thomas, and so he makes

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this statement in verse twenty nine.
You believe because you've seen me when Thomas

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makes this phenomenal declaration, my Lord
and my God, because he touched the

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physical resurrected body of Christ. That's
right. And so this idea of the

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physical resurrection, the bodily resurrection of
Christ is fundamental to Christianity. There have

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been different heresies throughout history that oh, it was Jesus was a ghost,

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or it was Jesus was like in
an angelic state or whatever. But the

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Bible says that it was the physical
bodily resurrection. And because of Jesus physical

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bodily resurrection, you and I at
the final judgment, we will also have

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a physical bodily resurrection. Right.
Isn't something that would be consistent. The

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reason why the physical resurrection is so
important is because one of the arguments was

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the Pharisees and the priests said they
paid money to say, oh, he

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was stolen, right or whatever,
and then others would go he turned into

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a ghost or whatever, and so
to eliminate those things, the Bible is

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very clear that Jesus physically rose from
the dead, which means then he physically

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took the punishment for your sin in
his body. He physically paid the price

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for your sin with his blood.
He physically died. It wasn't like he

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swooned or passed out. He physically
died, having finalized the full payment for

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our sin. And then he physically
rose, having defeated the consequence for sin

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and death and hell and the grave. And that then gives us confidence that

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this isn't just an idea or a
state of mind or some spiritual realm kind

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of thing. This solves every human
condition, every evil, every sin,

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everything that we've ever done in our
bodies, and God redeems that as well.

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Yeah, and it's important that he
had to have died and breathe his

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last That's that's what happened. It
said in the scripture, he breathed his

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final breath. So it's important that
he physically died because after all the old

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Covenant that talked about, you know, the shedding of blood, there's no

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forgiddness of sins, the slaying of
the lamb, the slaughtering, the killing,

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the sacrifice, that word picture that
was really set in motion honestly,

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even from the garden right I mean
as soon as as soon as Adam and

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Eve sin. What did God do? God, you know, brought on

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death, and he killed an animal
and made skin to cover their shame and

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their sin and their awareness of everything
else, of their knowledge. And so

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there was a sacrifice in the garden
and that was the first recorded you know,

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death in Paradise from the very beginning
as a payment for sin, and

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so Jesus would have had to have
died because that's what was required. It

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says, you know, in no
uncertain terms, the payment for sin is

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death, not swooning, right right, the payment for sin is death.

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He had to have completely died,
which again adds weight to his last sentence,

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which is it is finished, it
is finished, it is done.

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And then he dies, he breathes
out. It says, he cried out

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and then breathe his last breath.
So that's it's amazing. So yeah,

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a physical resurrection is you know,
it's I would imagine it be so awesome,

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you know, for Jesus and his
Jesus powers to to you know,

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go back in that body, be
like whoo, glad, that's over.

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Right. So then the Bible goes
on and it says the disciples saw Jesus

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do so many other miraculous signs in
addition of these, Right, so John

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said, man, I wrote down
as much as I could. Later on,

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there's another statement that says, the
whole world couldn't contain all the books,

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all the things that Jesus did,
but he gave us the most important

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things. So when you come across
statements where it's trying to drive home the

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physical resurrection or whatever it is,
they seem like incidental details, but they're

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incredibly important because he could have recorded
so many other things. That's what John's

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trying to say. I could have
There's so much more I could have written,

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but the most important things, the
things that are fundamental to Christianity,

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have been recorded so that you can
continue to believe that Jesus is a messiah,

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that by believing in him you will
have life by the power of his

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name. That's awesome. What a
great way to end that passage. Yeah,

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for sure. And I think that
the thing that I feel compelled to

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say is our listeners who are waiting
on God, who think that God doesn't

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hear them, or doesn't understand or
doesn't you know, understand the timing or

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the graphvity of your circumstance, and
you're like God, you need to show

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up, and it feels as if
God is silent, and it feels as

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if God is distant. Perhaps just
know that every evidence in the scripture is

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contrary to that that God God sees
you. And you know, you know,

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hey, God may not show up
on the second day, third day,

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fourth, fifth, sixth, or
seventh, and we don't know God's

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reasoning, we don't know why,
you know, God's timing. Those things

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won't be answered, you know,
anytime, you know, this side of

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eternity. But but just know that
that God knows and it's evidenced. Right,

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God loves, God knows, God
cares, God is with you,

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God sees you. So even now, even when you're waiting, God sees

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you. Yes, that's right,
all right, Well that's hey, that's

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that's a good wrap up and we'll
see you next time on the Bible, guys,