1
00:00:00,020 --> 00:00:02,960
Josh:
So everyone knows how messy breakups get when there's money involved.

2
00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,680
Josh:
Now imagine that breakup is between two of the most powerful people in tech.

3
00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:12,580
Josh:
There's $134 billion at stake and someone's personal diary just became court evidence.

4
00:00:12,820 --> 00:00:17,480
Josh:
This is Elon versus OpenAI, the saga that just keeps continuing to escalate.

5
00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,820
Josh:
And I guess maybe we'll start with the quick version where Elon co-founded OpenAI

6
00:00:20,820 --> 00:00:25,760
Josh:
in 2015 with a $38 million donation, thinking they were building a nonprofit

7
00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,600
Josh:
to save humanity from big tech AI monopolies,

8
00:00:29,290 --> 00:00:33,370
Josh:
Google. Flash forward to today, OpenAI is now worth half a trillion dollars,

9
00:00:33,710 --> 00:00:38,130
Josh:
partnered with Microsoft, about to go public, and Elon is saying, hey, I got played.

10
00:00:38,310 --> 00:00:41,030
Josh:
The receipts dropped. We have Greg Brockman, who's OpenAI's president.

11
00:00:41,330 --> 00:00:43,410
Josh:
He had journal entries from 2017.

12
00:00:44,190 --> 00:00:47,130
Josh:
We're going to get into it. It was really fascinating. And Greg posted a rebuttal.

13
00:00:47,290 --> 00:00:49,990
Josh:
The drama is kind of starting to get out of control. And there's a lot of new

14
00:00:49,990 --> 00:00:53,790
Josh:
updates this week that we're going to dive into. So grab your popcorn and let's get into this.

15
00:00:54,170 --> 00:00:57,310
Ejaaz:
Yeah. Okay. So let's start off with the drama between these two.

16
00:00:57,450 --> 00:01:01,730
Ejaaz:
By the way, I have to acknowledge I'm reporting from the Batcave today, Josh.

17
00:01:01,730 --> 00:01:03,970
Josh:
It's a little dark over there. So you're going to have to deal with me being.

18
00:01:03,970 --> 00:01:07,130
Ejaaz:
A bit of a silhouette. Yeah, yeah. Josh is on the West Coast for listeners here,

19
00:01:07,250 --> 00:01:10,690
Ejaaz:
and I'm on the East Coast right now. So it's past sunset.

20
00:01:10,830 --> 00:01:13,770
Ejaaz:
It's past my sunset over here. So let's jump straight into it.

21
00:01:14,810 --> 00:01:18,130
Ejaaz:
Elon has sued many companies and many founders in his time.

22
00:01:18,270 --> 00:01:23,070
Ejaaz:
But his favorite and most judicious lawsuit has been to open air. Who have wronged him?

23
00:01:23,330 --> 00:01:30,230
Ejaaz:
Josh. He initially invested $38 million or rather donated $38 million to what

24
00:01:30,230 --> 00:01:37,070
Ejaaz:
was then a non-profit OpenAI committed to building AI for the open source good

25
00:01:37,070 --> 00:01:38,970
Ejaaz:
so that it wouldn't get into the hands of evil.

26
00:01:39,110 --> 00:01:45,570
Ejaaz:
Fast forward to today and obviously OpenAI's structure has changed into something

27
00:01:45,570 --> 00:01:50,550
Ejaaz:
that could kind of loosely definitely be categorized as a for-profit.

28
00:01:51,150 --> 00:01:54,010
Ejaaz:
And so the lawsuit's been going kind of back and forth for a while,

29
00:01:54,190 --> 00:01:57,230
Ejaaz:
but it kind of culminated over the last two months.

30
00:01:57,370 --> 00:02:00,410
Ejaaz:
To give you the quick headlines, at the end of last year,

31
00:02:00,630 --> 00:02:06,070
Ejaaz:
the judge refused Sam Altman's request to dismiss the case completely,

32
00:02:06,070 --> 00:02:10,690
Ejaaz:
saying that Elon had sufficient evidence and that it was going to go to trial,

33
00:02:10,730 --> 00:02:13,730
Ejaaz:
which is now going to happen in April of this year.

34
00:02:13,910 --> 00:02:18,190
Ejaaz:
But Elon stepped up the gas over the last week and said that he's coming for it all.

35
00:02:18,370 --> 00:02:24,910
Ejaaz:
He's coming for what his original $38 million donation would be in today's OpenAI's

36
00:02:24,910 --> 00:02:26,950
Ejaaz:
valuation. Do you want to guess what that number is, Josh?

37
00:02:26,990 --> 00:02:29,390
Josh:
Some astronomical amount. I mean, this has to be big.

38
00:02:30,350 --> 00:02:33,610
Ejaaz:
It is $137 billion.

39
00:02:35,170 --> 00:02:40,230
Ejaaz:
He's requesting, he's going for the neck, basically. Oh, rather, $134 billion. My bad.

40
00:02:40,670 --> 00:02:45,570
Ejaaz:
So here are the key details. Musk's expert lawyer, he goes by the name of Paul

41
00:02:45,570 --> 00:02:55,250
Ejaaz:
Wazin, values the damages between $79 to $134 billion based on his original $38 million donation.

42
00:02:55,470 --> 00:02:59,290
Ejaaz:
So the question that becomes, well, what's really changed? Why has Moss got

43
00:02:59,290 --> 00:03:03,410
Ejaaz:
like the upper hand now? And it's just something that you alluded to earlier, which is,

44
00:03:04,410 --> 00:03:06,950
Ejaaz:
Greg Brockman, the acting president of OpenAI,

45
00:03:07,170 --> 00:03:08,110
Josh:
We got your diary, bro.

46
00:03:08,250 --> 00:03:15,250
Ejaaz:
Kept a diary of the entire sequence of events or history of OpenAI up until

47
00:03:15,250 --> 00:03:20,130
Ejaaz:
this day, which he had to legally give to the court for review.

48
00:03:20,290 --> 00:03:23,050
Josh:
Oh, that's so vile. And Josh, could you imagine your personal diary?

49
00:03:23,850 --> 00:03:29,130
Ejaaz:
Dude, also, why? It is like a 16-year-old girl's diary.

50
00:03:29,650 --> 00:03:34,670
Ejaaz:
And by that, I mean he has documented everything down to the line of whether

51
00:03:34,670 --> 00:03:38,410
Ejaaz:
he thinks it's morally ethical to do what he was doing back then.

52
00:03:38,830 --> 00:03:41,990
Ejaaz:
So to give you an idea, look at this quote, Josh.

53
00:03:42,530 --> 00:03:47,870
Ejaaz:
Look at this tweet right here. He goes, it'd be wrong to steal the nonprofit from him.

54
00:03:48,210 --> 00:03:52,330
Ejaaz:
Him he's referring to as Elon. To convert to a B Corp without him.

55
00:03:52,530 --> 00:03:55,270
Ejaaz:
That'd be pretty morally bankrupt.

56
00:03:55,570 --> 00:03:57,070
Ejaaz:
And he's not an idiot.

57
00:03:57,630 --> 00:04:02,110
Ejaaz:
And then he goes on to say, I cannot say that we are committed to the nonprofit.

58
00:04:02,110 --> 00:04:05,610
Ejaaz:
Don't want to say that we're committed if three months later we're

59
00:04:05,610 --> 00:04:08,510
Ejaaz:
doing the b call then it was a lie not feeling

60
00:04:08,510 --> 00:04:11,490
Ejaaz:
so great about all of this the true answer is that we want

61
00:04:11,490 --> 00:04:16,730
Ejaaz:
musk out can't see this turning into a for-profit without a very nasty fight

62
00:04:16,730 --> 00:04:23,130
Ejaaz:
so the long story short is elon is suing very aggressively for what his original

63
00:04:23,130 --> 00:04:28,550
Ejaaz:
donation is in an equity stake in the open ai is today to the tune of $134 billion.

64
00:04:28,950 --> 00:04:32,770
Ejaaz:
And he has pretty much a smoking gun, Josh.

65
00:04:33,030 --> 00:04:38,050
Ejaaz:
But there was a rebuttal from Greg Brockman himself saying that Elon Musk had

66
00:04:38,050 --> 00:04:43,710
Ejaaz:
let some important context or left some important context out of his claim.

67
00:04:43,710 --> 00:04:46,570
Ejaaz:
And I'm showing this on the screen right here where, you

68
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,160
Ejaaz:
We've got to figure out how we transition from a non-profit to something which

69
00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,700
Ejaaz:
is essentially a philanthropic endeavor.

70
00:04:53,820 --> 00:04:57,480
Ejaaz:
So what you're seeing in blue on the screen here is what Elon has claimed and caught.

71
00:04:57,580 --> 00:05:01,640
Ejaaz:
He's saying, hey, I've always kept my notion that I wanted OpenAI to become

72
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:06,120
Ejaaz:
a philanthropic endeavor, but he left out what was in red, which is him saying,

73
00:05:06,340 --> 00:05:09,460
Ejaaz:
I know that we need to transform this into a B Corp or a C Corp.

74
00:05:09,540 --> 00:05:13,580
Ejaaz:
So there's a bit of inambiguity and games being played from Elon.

75
00:05:14,260 --> 00:05:15,480
Ejaaz:
Which side do you take on this?

76
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,940
Josh:
I'm trying to look at this and evaluate this as neutral as possible.

77
00:05:18,140 --> 00:05:22,180
Josh:
And one party, we're seeing the journal entries, which one, I have a lot of

78
00:05:22,180 --> 00:05:25,100
Josh:
questions how they got that journal or the diary, and they knew that it even existed.

79
00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,820
Josh:
Because that seems like a very personal thing you wouldn't really want to tell

80
00:05:27,820 --> 00:05:30,400
Josh:
people about. So how the lawyers, one, discovered it existed,

81
00:05:30,580 --> 00:05:31,680
Josh:
and then two, got access to it.

82
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,660
Josh:
I'm sure there's some funny stuff going on behind the scenes of this case,

83
00:05:35,820 --> 00:05:37,060
Josh:
just to kind of provide more evidence.

84
00:05:37,220 --> 00:05:40,860
Josh:
But in terms of the evidence that's been provided, so far, you have one party

85
00:05:40,860 --> 00:05:44,520
Josh:
who is like, hey, we don't actually want this person to be at the company.

86
00:05:44,660 --> 00:05:45,700
Josh:
I think we just want to remove him.

87
00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,960
Josh:
But I kind of am siding with Elon in this instance for now, because it's very

88
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:51,920
Josh:
clear that they wanted out.

89
00:05:52,500 --> 00:05:56,680
Josh:
And even though it's clear that Elon observed it was probably necessary to become

90
00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,640
Josh:
a B Corp, he still was ousted.

91
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,480
Josh:
And in the case that it became a B Corp, he still does rightfully own those shares of equity.

92
00:06:03,780 --> 00:06:07,900
Josh:
So I guess for now, I'm team Elon. But more than anything, I'm team drama, man.

93
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,920
Josh:
This is great content. And we're going to continue to follow this as we go through

94
00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,280
Josh:
this court case, because I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg.

95
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,900
Ejaaz:
Dude, I saw a hilarious tweet earlier this week, which said that,

96
00:06:19,730 --> 00:06:24,250
Ejaaz:
My thesis for Anthropik winning the AI race is simply because they have zero drama.

97
00:06:24,450 --> 00:06:25,230
Josh:
No, seriously.

98
00:06:26,210 --> 00:06:31,290
Ejaaz:
All six co-founders are still there. No one's left. They've had the lowest employee

99
00:06:31,290 --> 00:06:33,410
Ejaaz:
attrition of any of the major AI labs.

100
00:06:33,830 --> 00:06:37,810
Ejaaz:
They've just kind of got their crap together. And OpenAIR is the complete opposite.

101
00:06:37,990 --> 00:06:42,150
Ejaaz:
It's an absolute wrecking ball, as we're going to find out on other things later this episode.

102
00:06:42,590 --> 00:06:43,990
Ejaaz:
The final thing I'll make on

103
00:06:43,990 --> 00:06:50,450
Ejaaz:
this point is the OpenAIR and Microsoft partnership. Josh, if Elon ends up

104
00:06:50,730 --> 00:06:58,330
Ejaaz:
able, like, if Elon ends up getting $134 billion, that dissolves the Microsoft

105
00:06:58,330 --> 00:06:59,970
Ejaaz:
OpenAI relationship completely.

106
00:07:00,170 --> 00:07:04,670
Ejaaz:
Because that is the equivalent of Microsoft's stake in OpenAI as well.

107
00:07:05,030 --> 00:07:09,150
Ejaaz:
So Elon's forcing hand basically gets ahead of him. Like Satya doesn't have

108
00:07:09,150 --> 00:07:11,250
Ejaaz:
the power that he originally thought he had.

109
00:07:11,390 --> 00:07:13,950
Josh:
And now poor Microsoft is just caught up into this, even though they had nothing

110
00:07:13,950 --> 00:07:16,730
Josh:
to do with the inception of the company, and they weren't involved until much later.

111
00:07:17,070 --> 00:07:20,690
Josh:
And I think the reason why this matters beyond the drama even is because Because

112
00:07:20,690 --> 00:07:24,210
Josh:
a lot of people believe that if Elon wins, I mean, it could fundamentally challenge

113
00:07:24,210 --> 00:07:25,710
Josh:
how AI companies are valued.

114
00:07:25,990 --> 00:07:29,750
Josh:
And some people are kind of whispering about whether this trial could be a catalyst

115
00:07:29,750 --> 00:07:32,370
Josh:
that could impact the actual AI bubble that we've been building.

116
00:07:32,450 --> 00:07:38,130
Josh:
If you can remove almost like $150 billion out of that and move it into another

117
00:07:38,130 --> 00:07:39,670
Josh:
entity, that's a huge swing.

118
00:07:40,670 --> 00:07:43,750
Josh:
I'm not sure if the market's going to be able to handle that because OpenAI

119
00:07:43,750 --> 00:07:47,950
Josh:
has so many obligations to make money and pay people back. And I guess on that

120
00:07:47,950 --> 00:07:51,370
Josh:
note, maybe we can get into one of the new things that they rolled out in order

121
00:07:51,370 --> 00:07:55,450
Josh:
to generate some revenue this week, which is their new ad model.

122
00:07:55,710 --> 00:07:59,570
Josh:
And Ijaz, if you remember, just last year, I guess two years technically now

123
00:07:59,570 --> 00:08:04,270
Josh:
because we're in 2026, but in 2024, Sam was on stage and he said,

124
00:08:04,790 --> 00:08:05,890
Josh:
ads are kind of the last resort.

125
00:08:06,090 --> 00:08:09,990
Josh:
We don't really like the ad model. We don't believe in it. We don't need it. Flash forward to today.

126
00:08:10,370 --> 00:08:14,290
Josh:
There are ads rolling out in OpenAI. So let's read. We'll start by reading what

127
00:08:14,290 --> 00:08:17,450
Josh:
they announced, which says, in the coming weeks, we plan to start testing ads

128
00:08:17,450 --> 00:08:19,770
Josh:
in ChatGPT free and go tiers.

129
00:08:19,970 --> 00:08:23,270
Josh:
We're sharing our principles early on on how we'll approach ads guided by putting

130
00:08:23,270 --> 00:08:27,630
Josh:
users in trust transparency first as we work to make AI accessible to everyone.

131
00:08:27,690 --> 00:08:29,450
Josh:
So they have like these four principles that they outlined.

132
00:08:29,990 --> 00:08:33,310
Josh:
What matters most? Responses in ChatGPT will not be influenced by ads.

133
00:08:33,810 --> 00:08:37,090
Josh:
Ads are always separated and clearly labeled. your conversations are private

134
00:08:37,090 --> 00:08:43,070
Josh:
from advertisers pro plus business and enterprise tiers will not have ads you

135
00:08:43,070 --> 00:08:43,850
Josh:
just what do you think about this.

136
00:08:45,220 --> 00:08:51,360
Ejaaz:
Okay, I have many thoughts. Okay, so let me give you a kind of lay of the land.

137
00:08:51,860 --> 00:08:56,260
Ejaaz:
OpenAI today has roughly 800 million weekly active users.

138
00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,460
Ejaaz:
Josh, guess what percentage of those users pay for their subscription?

139
00:09:00,540 --> 00:09:02,500
Josh:
I know this because we mentioned this in a previous episode.

140
00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,920
Josh:
It is close to single-digit percent. It's very low, surprisingly low.

141
00:09:06,060 --> 00:09:10,460
Ejaaz:
It is 5%. Yeah, that's not high. So the lesson that we've learned from this

142
00:09:10,460 --> 00:09:15,040
Ejaaz:
is you could have subscriptions, but it's not enough to keep you afloat.

143
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,740
Ejaaz:
OpenAI is projected to blow $20 billion this year alone.

144
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,140
Ejaaz:
You need something else to pay for it. So you need to somehow monetize the free users.

145
00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,860
Ejaaz:
And the classic model that everyone's used for decades now is ads.

146
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,920
Ejaaz:
So they're turning it on for two specific tiers.

147
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,500
Ejaaz:
The free users who are paying nothing to get access to ChatGPT.

148
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:40,380
Ejaaz:
And this new tier, which launched at the same time that they announced ads,

149
00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,480
Ejaaz:
Josh, called ChatGPT Go.

150
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,860
Ejaaz:
Where it's a subscription where you pay $8 a month and you get access to not

151
00:09:47,860 --> 00:09:51,940
Ejaaz:
the best ChatGPT models, but, you know, just below the best.

152
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,260
Ejaaz:
So let's look at some of the napkin math here.

153
00:09:54,460 --> 00:10:03,340
Ejaaz:
There's roughly 600 million non-paying weekly users or monthly users for ChatGPT. Right.

154
00:10:04,410 --> 00:10:09,550
Ejaaz:
Each of them were to pay $2 in ad revenue for the year of 2026.

155
00:10:09,810 --> 00:10:15,250
Ejaaz:
OpenAI stands to make around $1.3 to $1.7 billion, which sounds like it's a lot.

156
00:10:15,510 --> 00:10:18,370
Ejaaz:
But again, their spending budget is $20 billion.

157
00:10:18,670 --> 00:10:23,530
Ejaaz:
So it doesn't really move the needle that much. And they're projecting by 2030

158
00:10:23,530 --> 00:10:30,850
Ejaaz:
to have made $15 per free user, which then pushes them up into the realm of $36 billion.

159
00:10:31,270 --> 00:10:33,670
Ejaaz:
But you can imagine that their spending budget by then, Josh,

160
00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:36,910
Ejaaz:
is going to be multiples of what they're spending this year.

161
00:10:37,370 --> 00:10:41,690
Ejaaz:
So to kind of put into context, it's not looking great. But my argument against

162
00:10:41,690 --> 00:10:46,070
Ejaaz:
that is I think AI is going to be the ultimate form of selling ads in the future.

163
00:10:46,270 --> 00:10:51,010
Ejaaz:
Everyone is going to surface their intents, be it like, I want to buy something,

164
00:10:51,330 --> 00:10:54,150
Ejaaz:
I want to explore something through some kind of AI chatbot.

165
00:10:54,350 --> 00:10:58,510
Ejaaz:
And if OpenAI or ChatGPT rather becomes the face or the doormat of the internet,

166
00:10:58,750 --> 00:11:01,630
Ejaaz:
then they can charge whatever they want per user.

167
00:11:02,210 --> 00:11:05,850
Ejaaz:
And to kind of give listeners a context of like how much money you can actually

168
00:11:05,850 --> 00:11:07,470
Ejaaz:
make, let's look at Meta, right?

169
00:11:08,010 --> 00:11:16,050
Ejaaz:
In this tweet that I have up here, in 2025, Meta made $58 per user just purely from ads.

170
00:11:16,190 --> 00:11:18,590
Ejaaz:
And if you want to look at like the behemoth that is Google,

171
00:11:18,870 --> 00:11:23,470
Ejaaz:
they made $237 billion last year from ad revenue.

172
00:11:23,650 --> 00:11:27,770
Ejaaz:
That makes up 77% of their entire profit. So there's a lot of money to make

173
00:11:27,770 --> 00:11:32,170
Ejaaz:
from ads, but OpenAI needs to figure out a way to go from that $2 projection

174
00:11:32,170 --> 00:11:38,090
Ejaaz:
to something where Meta's hitting like $60 or even Google at around $80 per user.

175
00:11:38,710 --> 00:11:43,790
Josh:
Yeah, I think it's an interesting testament to, I guess, the human nature of

176
00:11:43,790 --> 00:11:48,530
Josh:
how we think about sponsoring and advertising. I was very optimistic in the early days that,

177
00:11:48,970 --> 00:11:51,770
Josh:
advertising that the traditional ad model, the freemium model,

178
00:11:51,890 --> 00:11:53,790
Josh:
was going to go away in the advent of AI.

179
00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:57,570
Josh:
And that was just some hopeful optimism. Didn't really have any reasoning why,

180
00:11:57,590 --> 00:12:01,010
Josh:
but I think it's become clear that that will not be the case.

181
00:12:01,110 --> 00:12:05,390
Josh:
And this push to monetize free users will continue to be this durable thing

182
00:12:05,390 --> 00:12:09,210
Josh:
that continues into this next iteration of technology, mostly based on the fact

183
00:12:09,210 --> 00:12:12,830
Josh:
that people would much prefer to pay with their attention than their dollars.

184
00:12:13,130 --> 00:12:16,830
Josh:
And particularly when it's good information. Now, the question that I have as

185
00:12:16,830 --> 00:12:20,670
Josh:
it relates to this story in particular is how much data are they going to be

186
00:12:20,670 --> 00:12:23,950
Josh:
collecting and using in order to make these ads actually useful?

187
00:12:24,250 --> 00:12:29,010
Josh:
Because one of the core principles that they shared is that your data is private, your data is being held.

188
00:12:29,130 --> 00:12:34,490
Josh:
It's not influencing the ads that you see. But the reality is that ads can be

189
00:12:34,490 --> 00:12:36,450
Josh:
a good thing if they are hyper-personalized.

190
00:12:36,570 --> 00:12:39,610
Josh:
So where are they going to draw that line? Where are they going to take that

191
00:12:39,610 --> 00:12:42,610
Josh:
line in the sand in order to give people higher value?

192
00:12:42,770 --> 00:12:46,930
Ejaaz:
We actually have some information on that exact question that I'm showing on the screen here.

193
00:12:46,930 --> 00:12:50,010
Ejaaz:
They state in their official post ads do

194
00:12:50,010 --> 00:12:52,790
Ejaaz:
not change chat gpt answers so we know that the answer that you're

195
00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:56,610
Ejaaz:
going to get isn't going to be influenced in any way specifically by an

196
00:12:56,610 --> 00:12:59,530
Ejaaz:
advert and then it goes on to say your chats with chat gpt

197
00:12:59,530 --> 00:13:02,710
Ejaaz:
are not shared with advertisers ads will be clearly labeled

198
00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:07,170
Ejaaz:
and chats that include sensitive topics such as health mental health or politics

199
00:13:07,170 --> 00:13:11,410
Ejaaz:
are not eligible for ads so they're taking a kind of hybrid approach here where

200
00:13:11,410 --> 00:13:15,470
Ejaaz:
they're not explicitly sharing all the data or rather prompts that you're sharing

201
00:13:15,470 --> 00:13:19,390
Ejaaz:
within your conversations but it's taking kind of themes from your conversations

202
00:13:19,390 --> 00:13:21,130
Ejaaz:
and sharing them with advertisers saying,

203
00:13:21,570 --> 00:13:25,590
Ejaaz:
hey, these are the general vibes that our users are speaking about ChatGPT with.

204
00:13:25,830 --> 00:13:28,170
Ejaaz:
Maybe your product could be a well-suited fit for this.

205
00:13:28,570 --> 00:13:32,170
Ejaaz:
Another interesting point to make here is, well, what do the ads actually look

206
00:13:32,170 --> 00:13:34,210
Ejaaz:
like? Is it going to be something subtle where it says,

207
00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:35,330
Josh:
This was shocking to me.

208
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:37,390
Ejaaz:
Right? Well, I actually like this.

209
00:13:37,710 --> 00:13:41,790
Josh:
I like it though. No, well, shocking in not really the most optimal way.

210
00:13:41,870 --> 00:13:44,510
Josh:
When you look at the amount of screen real estate this takes up for people who are listening.

211
00:13:44,670 --> 00:13:46,970
Josh:
It's huge. About a third of the screen is an ad.

212
00:13:47,190 --> 00:13:51,470
Josh:
That's a large percentage of screen real estate for a single advertising slot to go.

213
00:13:52,260 --> 00:13:55,960
Josh:
It's probably going to be worth a pretty hefty premium and a very strong inconvenience

214
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,220
Josh:
to people who don't want to pay for ChatGPT.

215
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:03,160
Josh:
So this, in a way, does degrade the experience, but should also make them a good bit of money.

216
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,920
Josh:
Because man, if you're getting 25 to 30% on the screen for an impression,

217
00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:09,020
Josh:
that's like a pretty, you're going to see it.

218
00:14:09,380 --> 00:14:12,380
Josh:
Like there's no way your ad blockers, like your eyes are going to glaze over

219
00:14:12,380 --> 00:14:16,720
Josh:
it and not notice because it is such a profound placement on the actual display.

220
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,640
Ejaaz:
Well, it's also not your average impression, right?

221
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:26,500
Ejaaz:
Because this is a kind of like boosted impression where the conversion rate

222
00:14:26,500 --> 00:14:30,200
Ejaaz:
is or probability of it converting into someone purchasing your product or service

223
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,160
Ejaaz:
is probably way, way higher.

224
00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:37,740
Ejaaz:
Now, to give OpenAI credit, I like that they're excluding things like health,

225
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,140
Ejaaz:
politics, and also people that are under the age of 18.

226
00:14:41,180 --> 00:14:46,880
Ejaaz:
Because AI is very, very persuasive, both in a good way, but in a really, really bad way.

227
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:53,600
Ejaaz:
The other kind of lens that I apply to this is the competitors are going to eat this up, Josh.

228
00:14:53,820 --> 00:14:57,660
Ejaaz:
Because, listen, Google is getting plenty of cash flow from all their other

229
00:14:57,660 --> 00:15:00,400
Ejaaz:
businesses. So they do not need to turn on ads.

230
00:15:00,740 --> 00:15:05,160
Ejaaz:
Today, if you are a freemium user of OpenAI and you get tired of this real estate

231
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,980
Ejaaz:
that you just referenced, the sponsored ads, you don't want to see that crap.

232
00:15:07,980 --> 00:15:11,720
Ejaaz:
You can just go and use Gemini and there's no ads at all.

233
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,460
Ejaaz:
And let me tell you, Google will be willing to subsidize no ads for as long

234
00:15:16,460 --> 00:15:18,380
Ejaaz:
as it takes to kill OpenAI.

235
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,380
Ejaaz:
Anthropic, on the other hand, isn't a gigantic monopoly, but they're already

236
00:15:22,380 --> 00:15:25,080
Ejaaz:
making so much money from the people that want their Claude Code product.

237
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,080
Ejaaz:
They've already produced something so valuable, Josh, from their subscription

238
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:32,280
Ejaaz:
that they're making tons of money. They're projected to make $70 billion by 2028.

239
00:15:32,420 --> 00:15:34,500
Ejaaz:
So they don't need to pull off the stunt for ads.

240
00:15:34,740 --> 00:15:37,980
Ejaaz:
So OpenAI really seems like they've got their back against the wall There's

241
00:15:37,980 --> 00:15:39,680
Ejaaz:
no other way for me to describe it, to be honest.

242
00:15:39,980 --> 00:15:42,900
Josh:
Yeah, they're a small fish in a very, very big pond. I mean,

243
00:15:42,980 --> 00:15:45,480
Josh:
they're competing with companies like Google that have an infinite balance sheet

244
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,220
Josh:
relative to theirs, and they have the ability to subsidize and absorb any additional

245
00:15:49,220 --> 00:15:51,460
Josh:
cost required to win additional market share.

246
00:15:51,620 --> 00:15:54,580
Josh:
And that's what we're seeing as we look at these charts of weekly active users,

247
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,300
Josh:
decline for ChatGPT, and increase for all the others across the board.

248
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,640
Josh:
While Anthropix sits cozy and soundly with their incredible coding model and

249
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:03,660
Josh:
their business-to-business service.

250
00:16:03,820 --> 00:16:08,220
Josh:
Now, I think it's time to get back into the drama news. This is the gossip part

251
00:16:08,220 --> 00:16:09,620
Josh:
of the show because we have some more.

252
00:16:10,180 --> 00:16:14,720
Ejaaz:
Dude, I wish Sam versus Elon was the only catfight going on.

253
00:16:14,860 --> 00:16:19,860
Ejaaz:
But do you remember that angel from OpenAI that couldn't do no wrong and actually

254
00:16:19,860 --> 00:16:24,140
Ejaaz:
called Sam out for being moralistically unethical?

255
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:29,780
Ejaaz:
Miro Murati, who left and started her own company, her own AI lab called Thinking Labs.

256
00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:31,820
Josh:
Thinking Machines.

257
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,620
Ejaaz:
Thinking Machines, rather. They just lost...

258
00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:42,260
Ejaaz:
Total 50% of their founders or their founding team this week,

259
00:16:42,420 --> 00:16:46,380
Ejaaz:
they lost their CTO, Barrett Zoff, due to, as this tweet says,

260
00:16:46,540 --> 00:16:49,560
Ejaaz:
unethical conduct, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

261
00:16:50,020 --> 00:16:54,180
Ejaaz:
Those two things that were unethical was an in-work relationship,

262
00:16:54,180 --> 00:16:55,260
Ejaaz:
which he didn't disclose.

263
00:16:55,700 --> 00:16:59,200
Ejaaz:
And also, apparently, he was leaking information to competitors.

264
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:00,260
Josh:
Yikes.

265
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,020
Ejaaz:
Josh, do you want to guess which competitor, if it was true,

266
00:17:04,260 --> 00:17:07,140
Josh:
Who he might have been leaking that to? take a guess. Considering where they

267
00:17:07,140 --> 00:17:10,160
Josh:
all came from, I'm going to guess they were returning back to OpenAI,

268
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:11,880
Josh:
which seems very clear to me.

269
00:17:12,220 --> 00:17:18,420
Ejaaz:
Absolutely. Look at this tweet from Fiji Simo, the CEO of OpenAI Applications,

270
00:17:18,580 --> 00:17:23,260
Ejaaz:
who at the same time Mira Murati announced that these guys were leaving,

271
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,340
Ejaaz:
she announced welcome Baratsoff, Luke Metz, and Sam Sheldon.

272
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,760
Ejaaz:
So basically, the three exact people that left Thinking Machines this week joined OpenAI.

273
00:17:31,980 --> 00:17:35,500
Ejaaz:
So I have a feeling that they were already getting tired of their work.

274
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,620
Ejaaz:
They didn't really feel focused under Miro Moracci's leadership and decided

275
00:17:39,620 --> 00:17:44,000
Ejaaz:
that the best place to go back was OpenAI and Fiji welcomed them back with open arms.

276
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,240
Josh:
Hey, I got a question for you, actually. What does the key machines do?

277
00:17:48,450 --> 00:17:49,530
Ejaaz:
Dude, I have no idea.

278
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:53,810
Josh:
Two billion seed raise. I'm not sure anybody has an answer. Two billion dollar

279
00:17:53,810 --> 00:17:56,310
Josh:
seed raise. I'm not sure anybody has an answer.

280
00:17:57,170 --> 00:18:00,730
Josh:
This company, as far as I'm concerned, they have shipped one small product that

281
00:18:00,730 --> 00:18:04,290
Josh:
I don't think, it was just kind of a research product, wasn't very impressive, and nothing else.

282
00:18:04,430 --> 00:18:07,650
Josh:
But they've raised two billion dollars in their seed. They're looking to raise even more money.

283
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:11,650
Josh:
And there is clearly a lot of drama going on in-house. There's this funny,

284
00:18:11,790 --> 00:18:15,330
Josh:
funny post, EJs. I actually dropped it in our agenda, if you don't mind opening it.

285
00:18:15,370 --> 00:18:18,210
Josh:
It's titled Jim. and there is a post that

286
00:18:18,210 --> 00:18:21,110
Josh:
someone saw looking into the offices and it has like these weights

287
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:24,170
Josh:
that are custom branded with thinking machines just as a testament

288
00:18:24,170 --> 00:18:27,310
Josh:
to how kind of outrageous the spending is yeah this

289
00:18:27,310 --> 00:18:30,990
Josh:
this photo it's so funny if you scroll down a little bit you could see the plates

290
00:18:30,990 --> 00:18:34,530
Josh:
on the gym are thinking machines plates and ironically there's no 45s in this

291
00:18:34,530 --> 00:18:37,970
Josh:
picture because i mean maybe ai researchers don't don't really trust me like

292
00:18:37,970 --> 00:18:41,490
Josh:
they need to be who knows but i think it's a it's a funny testament to the fact

293
00:18:41,490 --> 00:18:44,390
Josh:
that um there are bubbly things happening.

294
00:18:44,630 --> 00:18:47,090
Josh:
And one of which seems like it's thinking machines. They've raised a ton of

295
00:18:47,090 --> 00:18:49,110
Josh:
money. They haven't really come up with the product.

296
00:18:49,350 --> 00:18:52,790
Josh:
There's clearly a lot of drama where half of the co-founders now have returned

297
00:18:52,790 --> 00:18:53,830
Josh:
back to where they're left from.

298
00:18:54,090 --> 00:18:57,350
Josh:
So clearly they're not liking it. And it seems like there's this lack of direction.

299
00:18:57,550 --> 00:19:01,250
Josh:
And you can give them the benefit and the doubt in the case that they are a

300
00:19:01,250 --> 00:19:04,790
Josh:
research lab and they're hoping to discover some novel algorithmic improvement.

301
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:08,270
Josh:
But we've discussed this in previous episodes where an algorithmic improvement

302
00:19:08,270 --> 00:19:13,350
Josh:
is very difficult to capture value from because it very quickly becomes commoditized

303
00:19:13,350 --> 00:19:14,550
Josh:
and democratize throughout the stack.

304
00:19:14,730 --> 00:19:19,970
Josh:
So even in the best case scenario, it seems difficult to see thinking machines.

305
00:19:20,530 --> 00:19:24,310
Josh:
Anywhere else besides either being acquired or just kind of fizzling out.

306
00:19:24,770 --> 00:19:27,690
Josh:
And I mean, at this point, it wouldn't even surprise me to see OpenAI acquire them again.

307
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:30,970
Josh:
The mirror will come back to OpenAI. They'll get the remaining three co-founders

308
00:19:30,970 --> 00:19:33,530
Josh:
and they'll just continue to move on as they were previously.

309
00:19:33,730 --> 00:19:35,290
Josh:
But that is to be determined.

310
00:19:36,370 --> 00:19:40,170
Josh:
In other AI news, perhaps we'll go off the drama and get back to the hard tech,

311
00:19:40,250 --> 00:19:43,710
Josh:
the people who are actually building stuff, not talking about stuff.

312
00:19:43,890 --> 00:19:48,230
Josh:
And that is XAI, who has just released the first, or has just made it to the

313
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:51,470
Josh:
first gigawatt scale coherent training cluster in the world.

314
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:55,130
Josh:
And they have not been around. They've been around the least amount of time

315
00:19:55,130 --> 00:19:56,750
Josh:
out of any other company in the world.

316
00:19:56,910 --> 00:20:00,770
Josh:
So it's pretty ironic the fact that the youngest company is now the first to

317
00:20:00,770 --> 00:20:03,470
Josh:
reach this critical scale of one gigawatt worth of energy.

318
00:20:04,460 --> 00:20:12,260
Ejaaz:
Yeah, this is a big deal. So Colossus 2 and Colossus 1 are XAI's specific data

319
00:20:12,260 --> 00:20:17,000
Ejaaz:
centers that they use to gather all their GPUs and train their AI models and

320
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,620
Ejaaz:
inference their AI models.

321
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:25,700
Ejaaz:
And the unique part around Colossus specifically is Elon is an infrastructure scaling genius.

322
00:20:26,060 --> 00:20:27,540
Josh:
When he started Colossus 1.

323
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:34,320
Ejaaz:
He scaled it to 400 megawatts of compute capacity in 122 days.

324
00:20:34,460 --> 00:20:36,940
Ejaaz:
Do you know how long it should have taken him, technically?

325
00:20:37,300 --> 00:20:39,940
Josh:
I mean, this is like a year, years-long project.

326
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:45,580
Ejaaz:
Dude, four years. A year to just set up the infrastructure, about four years to get at life.

327
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:51,280
Ejaaz:
He did all of that in 122 days. Jensen Huang called him something like short

328
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,060
Ejaaz:
of an absolute genius that no one can compete with.

329
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:55,320
Josh:
That's one-tenth the time.

330
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,640
Ejaaz:
Four months, right? Yeah. And so he did that kind of midway last year,

331
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:00,640
Ejaaz:
and he thought, you know what?

332
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,320
Ejaaz:
I'm going to put my foot on the gas even more. And he started with Colossus 2.

333
00:21:04,460 --> 00:21:10,100
Ejaaz:
And by the start of this year, or rather not by the start of this year,

334
00:21:10,180 --> 00:21:17,300
Ejaaz:
but January 17th specifically, he got one gigawatt of compute total live across

335
00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:19,160
Ejaaz:
Colossus 1 and Colossus 2.

336
00:21:19,340 --> 00:21:24,080
Ejaaz:
He is officially the quickest AI startup to get to one gigawatt's worth of compute,

337
00:21:24,300 --> 00:21:29,320
Ejaaz:
beating OpenAI, who started this stuff years ago. This is a two-year startup.

338
00:21:29,580 --> 00:21:32,280
Josh:
Oh my God, we got to show the chart. Please, go to the chart at the bottom.

339
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,040
Ejaaz:
Yeah, please, please, please, please. let me go to the let me go to this where

340
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:36,380
Ejaaz:
is the wait where is the chart oh it

341
00:21:36,380 --> 00:21:37,060
Josh:
Was at the bottom of the post.

342
00:21:37,060 --> 00:21:40,400
Ejaaz:
Oh yeah there you go sorry right look at this scale it

343
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,200
Ejaaz:
is just absolutely insane to kind of like put this into context for

344
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:50,340
Ejaaz:
people um we're talking about 555 000 gpus that's half a million gpus worth

345
00:21:50,340 --> 00:21:54,840
Ejaaz:
18 billion dollars he deployed it that quickly and if you want to understand

346
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,140
Ejaaz:
why he got the edge over every other lab that's been working on this for multiple

347
00:21:59,140 --> 00:22:01,760
Ejaaz:
years and somehow elon's just kind of like swept the rug with them

348
00:22:02,140 --> 00:22:06,000
Ejaaz:
He thought outside of the box. He played in the gray area. And what I mean by

349
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,900
Ejaaz:
that is, of course, he flew in gas turbines, Josh.

350
00:22:09,180 --> 00:22:12,440
Ejaaz:
He flew in gas turbines to power his data centers.

351
00:22:12,660 --> 00:22:16,620
Ejaaz:
If he couldn't get access to electrical grids, he would set it up himself.

352
00:22:16,820 --> 00:22:18,740
Ejaaz:
He would literally thread the wires himself.

353
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:22,880
Ejaaz:
And if he couldn't get any energy from the national electric grid or the state

354
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,120
Ejaaz:
electric grid, he would fly in Tesla megapacks to power this.

355
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,320
Ejaaz:
He's thinking way outside the box where other AI labs are just kind of waiting

356
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,080
Ejaaz:
for regulatory burdens to be overcome. which is going to take years, to be honest.

357
00:22:34,540 --> 00:22:38,180
Josh:
Yeah, and so much so that these two data centers, Colossus 1 and 2,

358
00:22:38,260 --> 00:22:41,360
Josh:
actually sit in different states, but right on the state line.

359
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,300
Josh:
So they could lobby in two states at once. They have access to double the amount

360
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:47,920
Josh:
of senators to help get the legislation passed that they need in order to build these things.

361
00:22:48,380 --> 00:22:51,720
Josh:
They have really, like, if you think about how to build a data center from first

362
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,560
Josh:
principles, you want to optimize all of these traits that they have actually been doing.

363
00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:58,840
Josh:
And they have that unique advantage that you mentioned where they have partnerships

364
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,000
Josh:
with companies like Tesla to give them access to these mega packs.

365
00:23:02,140 --> 00:23:04,680
Josh:
And a lot of people don't realize when you do these training runs,

366
00:23:04,940 --> 00:23:09,080
Josh:
there's a couple hundred thousand GPUs that spin up very quickly and then power down.

367
00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:13,060
Josh:
And there's a huge variance in energy that comes through the grid in order to

368
00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:17,060
Josh:
make this work. And when there's a physical combustion motor that's actually

369
00:23:17,060 --> 00:23:19,720
Josh:
spinning, it's very difficult to speed it up and slow it down that fast.

370
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,680
Josh:
So you need something quicker. You need things like Megapack batteries.

371
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,600
Josh:
And the only company that makes batteries this size at this scale with this

372
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,700
Josh:
type of software stack ready to go is Tesla, is the Megapack,

373
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,460
Josh:
and they have this competitive advantage. And in a world in which

374
00:23:32,890 --> 00:23:37,450
Josh:
the winner is the person who can deploy resources the fastest and most efficiently,

375
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:42,090
Josh:
it very clearly seems that XAI is going to continue to take this lead as they

376
00:23:42,090 --> 00:23:44,550
Josh:
move forward just because of the sheer rate of improvement.

377
00:23:44,730 --> 00:23:48,630
Josh:
And if you look at the chart, I mean, it's a vertical line to get to Colossus 2.

378
00:23:48,830 --> 00:23:52,930
Josh:
And the next person who's coming after this is OpenAI, but that chart looks

379
00:23:52,930 --> 00:23:55,290
Josh:
like it's going to beat them sometime in 2027.

380
00:23:55,870 --> 00:24:00,610
Josh:
So, I mean, granted, there will be variants here, but it seems like XAI finally

381
00:24:00,610 --> 00:24:04,370
Josh:
has taken the lead, And I don't see any world in which they don't continue to dominate this lead.

382
00:24:04,650 --> 00:24:08,810
Ejaaz:
Yeah, I agree with you. Elon's taking a very large gamble here,

383
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:13,070
Ejaaz:
which is the more compute I have, the better AI model I can build.

384
00:24:13,270 --> 00:24:17,450
Ejaaz:
And that was in contention last year, but Google proved it after they spun up

385
00:24:17,450 --> 00:24:20,810
Ejaaz:
a bunch of TPUs that they produced a leading model.

386
00:24:20,990 --> 00:24:24,910
Ejaaz:
And I have a feeling that Grok 5, whenever that releases in this quarter or

387
00:24:24,910 --> 00:24:28,190
Ejaaz:
first half of the year, is going to be an absolute beast.

388
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:29,270
Josh:
I can't wait.

389
00:24:29,610 --> 00:24:33,470
Ejaaz:
I can't wait. To put it to context, by the way, because we throw around a lot

390
00:24:33,470 --> 00:24:35,910
Ejaaz:
of these numbers, like one gigawatt, what the hell does that mean?

391
00:24:36,150 --> 00:24:42,210
Ejaaz:
That is the total power that is needed to power San Francisco City,

392
00:24:42,470 --> 00:24:44,490
Ejaaz:
but not just during normal hours.

393
00:24:44,730 --> 00:24:48,030
Ejaaz:
I'm talking about peak hours. If you turn on all the lights,

394
00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:49,950
Ejaaz:
use up all the energy, the most

395
00:24:49,950 --> 00:24:54,130
Ejaaz:
energy, that's how much power is coursing through Colossus 2 right now.

396
00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:59,650
Ejaaz:
And I've got news for you guys. he set up Colossus 3 already and he has raised

397
00:24:59,650 --> 00:25:05,670
Ejaaz:
another $20 billion $5 billion oversubscribed to buy even more GPUs and he is

398
00:25:05,670 --> 00:25:10,510
Ejaaz:
the largest purchaser of NVIDIA's Blackwells and their latest Vero Rubens as

399
00:25:10,510 --> 00:25:13,330
Ejaaz:
well so again it's a big gamble if it pays off

400
00:25:13,790 --> 00:25:15,050
Ejaaz:
Grok's going to be the best, dude.

401
00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:19,050
Josh:
Man, when these Vera Rubin chips come online and they have clusters this size

402
00:25:19,050 --> 00:25:23,690
Josh:
at this scale, there is an impossibility we don't reach AGI at that point.

403
00:25:23,790 --> 00:25:28,250
Josh:
There is so much intelligence, so much energy and compute power solving problems.

404
00:25:28,410 --> 00:25:31,190
Josh:
And this is happening quickly. I mean, this is by next year. We're done.

405
00:25:31,630 --> 00:25:35,950
Josh:
So things are moving quickly. But maybe on that note, particularly the Tesla

406
00:25:35,950 --> 00:25:37,610
Josh:
one, we have updates. It's not that...

407
00:25:37,610 --> 00:25:40,450
Ejaaz:
Well, come on. We're talking about XAI. This is one company,

408
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:45,210
Ejaaz:
one of six that Elon manages. And you're telling me that he's had a banger week for Tesla as well.

409
00:25:45,690 --> 00:25:48,530
Josh:
Absolutely incredible. So there's a funny thing. I'm in LA right now,

410
00:25:48,610 --> 00:25:51,990
Josh:
and I've been taking Waymos around all week. And this obviously is Tesla's largest

411
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:53,310
Josh:
competitor. And they're fantastic.

412
00:25:53,550 --> 00:25:57,570
Josh:
They work very well, but they work in this geofenced area where I wanted to go to Santa Monica Pier.

413
00:25:57,850 --> 00:26:00,650
Josh:
And I actually couldn't get there, even though it was only four miles away,

414
00:26:00,710 --> 00:26:04,070
Josh:
because it wasn't in the geofenced area. I wasn't able to get there.

415
00:26:04,850 --> 00:26:08,630
Josh:
FSD is solving this problem. FSD is going to be fully autonomous everywhere.

416
00:26:08,830 --> 00:26:12,030
Josh:
And in fact, just this week, they announced that they are removing the ability

417
00:26:12,030 --> 00:26:15,510
Josh:
to purchase a license February 14th on Valentine's Day.

418
00:26:15,690 --> 00:26:20,470
Josh:
Which is kind of sad because that's a heartbreak thing. And on Valentine's Day

419
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:23,430
Josh:
of all days, it's not a cool thing, but it signals a few things to me.

420
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:27,070
Josh:
One is since the beginning of time, it was made very clear that the price of

421
00:26:27,070 --> 00:26:30,630
Josh:
full self-driving would only go in one direction and that's up because the value

422
00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:34,650
Josh:
of having a license to basically grant you unlimited full self-driving miles

423
00:26:34,650 --> 00:26:38,250
Josh:
for the remaining value of the car is a very high premium.

424
00:26:38,370 --> 00:26:41,190
Josh:
And as they get closer and closer, that premium will get higher.

425
00:26:41,470 --> 00:26:45,530
Josh:
Now we've gotten so close to the finish line that they've removed it entirely.

426
00:26:45,690 --> 00:26:47,590
Josh:
And that license no longer exists.

427
00:26:47,870 --> 00:26:52,610
Josh:
So if you want to buy unlimited lifetime full self-driving chauffeur miles,

428
00:26:52,890 --> 00:26:55,030
Josh:
you have about a month to do it.

429
00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:58,750
Josh:
And if you don't do it in that time, that's it, you're done for. Wait, question for you.

430
00:26:59,270 --> 00:27:03,810
Ejaaz:
So let's say you buy a new Tesla after this deadline, Josh.

431
00:27:03,970 --> 00:27:08,110
Ejaaz:
Can you move your lifetime FSD subscription to your new car?

432
00:27:08,490 --> 00:27:12,690
Josh:
There is a month grace period after the window until sometime in mid-March,

433
00:27:12,690 --> 00:27:15,850
Josh:
where if you are a current owner, you can transfer the license to the new vehicle

434
00:27:15,850 --> 00:27:20,010
Josh:
but after that i suspect it's done and it's not coming back but.

435
00:27:20,010 --> 00:27:22,530
Ejaaz:
Didn't people pay like eight thousand dollars

436
00:27:22,530 --> 00:27:26,670
Josh:
To yes i owned the license so it's it's disappointing,

437
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:32,320
Josh:
But it's been expected for a very long time and the cars last forever.

438
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,600
Josh:
But now the car becomes much more valuable because it does have lifetime free

439
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:38,820
Josh:
full self-driving miles.

440
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,640
Josh:
And that amount of inference power is really impressive on the back of this

441
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,260
Josh:
post that we're sharing right now, which is the hardware plan as they move forward

442
00:27:46,260 --> 00:27:48,160
Josh:
and as they're actually powering these systems.

443
00:27:48,340 --> 00:27:51,120
Josh:
So AI4 is currently what's on the cars right now.

444
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,320
Josh:
That's what is driving full self-driving. that is what is going to get to full

445
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,460
Josh:
level five autonomy where the cars will drive themselves. But AI5 is coming next.

446
00:27:59,900 --> 00:28:04,380
Josh:
And AI5 is a new chip design that they've been working really hard on basically

447
00:28:04,380 --> 00:28:05,540
Josh:
every week for the last three months.

448
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,720
Josh:
And AI5 is built entirely for full self-driving in a way that AI4 was not.

449
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:14,560
Josh:
So traditionally with GPUs, the way they're built is for large,

450
00:28:14,780 --> 00:28:18,280
Josh:
I think it's floating point matrix math, some like very elaborate data set.

451
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,920
Josh:
And it's good for general purpose. But basically what Tesla and the AI team

452
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,020
Josh:
are doing is designing, you could think of it like a TPU, but for full self-driving

453
00:28:26,020 --> 00:28:28,880
Josh:
vehicles and for autonomy on machines.

454
00:28:28,940 --> 00:28:32,800
Josh:
So that includes things like Optimus and things like any of the Tesla vehicles.

455
00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:35,100
Josh:
And I'm sure it will find its way into the data centers.

456
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,560
Josh:
In fact, I was listening to an episode with one of the XAI employees who I guess is ex,

457
00:28:39,950 --> 00:28:42,930
Josh:
XAI now because he's no longer with the company after that podcast.

458
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:47,150
Josh:
But he was mentioning how the plan is actually to take these AI5 chips and all

459
00:28:47,150 --> 00:28:50,150
Josh:
the chips moving forward and actually place them into data centers because they're

460
00:28:50,150 --> 00:28:51,250
Josh:
going to be so effective,

461
00:28:51,690 --> 00:28:56,090
Josh:
so efficient relative to others that Tesla will now soon become not only a large

462
00:28:56,090 --> 00:29:00,710
Josh:
chip manufacturer, but will do the Google thing and will vertically integrate

463
00:29:00,710 --> 00:29:04,370
Josh:
the chips into its own technology stack as it trains these models and starts

464
00:29:04,370 --> 00:29:06,470
Josh:
to build its quest for AGI.

465
00:29:06,770 --> 00:29:11,150
Ejaaz:
He's already working on the future iterations of this chip as well.

466
00:29:12,270 --> 00:29:16,630
Ejaaz:
AI-6, AI-7, and then Dojo 3. He's resuming that project as well.

467
00:29:16,990 --> 00:29:21,550
Ejaaz:
He mentioned that he's going to be doing these iterations in nine-month cycles.

468
00:29:21,770 --> 00:29:27,490
Ejaaz:
So what has typically taken two years, he's accelerating chip design to a new

469
00:29:27,490 --> 00:29:31,510
Ejaaz:
one every nine months, which is just an insane cadence and kind of reminds me

470
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:35,350
Ejaaz:
of what Jensen is doing at NVIDIA, which brings me to,

471
00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:39,110
Ejaaz:
because Jensen's like doing a new GPU model every year now. That's what he's targeting.

472
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:42,490
Ejaaz:
Which leads you to my point. We had a conversation, you and I,

473
00:29:42,590 --> 00:29:47,810
Ejaaz:
Josh, months ago last year, where I said that I think Elon might be going down

474
00:29:47,810 --> 00:29:51,070
Ejaaz:
the path where he's not exactly trying to compete with NVIDIA,

475
00:29:51,230 --> 00:29:54,070
Ejaaz:
but he wants to become independent from them eventually.

476
00:29:54,290 --> 00:29:58,750
Ejaaz:
I'm not saying this is a direct hit towards it. I think your comparison to the

477
00:29:58,750 --> 00:30:05,830
Ejaaz:
AI models, the AI-5 chips, rather, being kind of better compared to Google's TPUs is accurate.

478
00:30:06,170 --> 00:30:09,870
Ejaaz:
But if he's not just going to put these in cars, but he's going to put these

479
00:30:09,870 --> 00:30:13,210
Ejaaz:
in humanoid robots and whatever robots Tesla builds in the future,

480
00:30:13,530 --> 00:30:15,850
Ejaaz:
maybe even his spaceships, if they do a cross-collaboration,

481
00:30:15,910 --> 00:30:19,430
Ejaaz:
we already know that there's a lot of synergies between SpaceX and Tesla.

482
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,860
Ejaaz:
This ends up becoming one of the most valuable GPU providers there could be.

483
00:30:24,020 --> 00:30:29,120
Ejaaz:
And I wonder if Tesla starts to get valued similarly to an NVIDIA-esque for

484
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,720
Ejaaz:
maybe custom specialized chips for robots in the future.

485
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,220
Josh:
Yeah, their plan is to develop a TerraFab factory.

486
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,220
Josh:
So their plan is to actually make these chips in-house to become someone like

487
00:30:40,220 --> 00:30:42,620
Josh:
NVIDIA, but do so in a way that's vertically integrated.

488
00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:46,500
Josh:
And you can see in that post, he's kind of sharing what each one of those chips

489
00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:49,220
Josh:
are going to be used for. And we could almost reverse engineer this to create

490
00:30:49,220 --> 00:30:54,020
Josh:
a timeline of when we'll get to AI7, which he says will be the space-based AI compute.

491
00:30:54,770 --> 00:30:58,910
Josh:
If you assume about nine months per iteration, that takes us to 27 months,

492
00:30:59,010 --> 00:31:01,610
Josh:
so two years and change after AI5 releases.

493
00:31:01,830 --> 00:31:04,450
Josh:
So maybe AI5 comes out sometime later this year.

494
00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:08,830
Josh:
After that, we have about two years. So you're looking at like 2028,

495
00:31:09,050 --> 00:31:15,950
Josh:
2029, end of the decade for space-based AI compute to become really a superpower.

496
00:31:16,330 --> 00:31:19,870
Josh:
And you have to assume that by that time, starships will be working very,

497
00:31:19,970 --> 00:31:21,590
Josh:
very well. They'll get the cost of kilogram down.

498
00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:25,410
Josh:
And that's probably when we'll start to see this new AI in space-based narrative

499
00:31:25,410 --> 00:31:30,110
Josh:
actually literally taking off and getting into outer space. So I found that interesting too.

500
00:31:30,250 --> 00:31:32,670
Josh:
So now we kind of have this loose estimate for timelines as well.

501
00:31:32,850 --> 00:31:39,090
Josh:
And one final bonus on the full self-driving part of this show is the real live

502
00:31:39,090 --> 00:31:41,570
Josh:
implementation of this right now, where we're seeing this post,

503
00:31:41,710 --> 00:31:46,310
Josh:
this person drove 13,000 miles fully autonomously from the West Coast to the

504
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:47,730
Josh:
East Coast and then partially back.

505
00:31:47,950 --> 00:31:51,790
Josh:
This was all done using a production Tesla. There was no early access information

506
00:31:51,790 --> 00:31:54,430
Josh:
and it was actually verified through the software that's on the car,

507
00:31:54,550 --> 00:31:58,330
Josh:
that 100% of these 13,000 miles were driven autonomously.

508
00:31:58,410 --> 00:32:01,270
Josh:
That includes parking, that includes charging, that includes driving,

509
00:32:01,390 --> 00:32:05,070
Josh:
detours, anything that needed to happen, it was done 100% autonomously.

510
00:32:05,150 --> 00:32:08,350
Josh:
And I think that's why you're seeing this premium for these licenses.

511
00:32:08,550 --> 00:32:11,450
Josh:
And the second they go away, you're on a monthly plan, and that monthly plan

512
00:32:11,450 --> 00:32:12,790
Josh:
is going to change price.

513
00:32:13,010 --> 00:32:17,850
Josh:
Right now it's $100 a month, but I suspect it will continue to go up as the cost per mile goes down.

514
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:21,690
Josh:
And that's basically it for the autopilot section. I mean, it's exciting.

515
00:32:21,790 --> 00:32:25,150
Josh:
It's happening quickly it's out there in production you could go sit in them

516
00:32:25,150 --> 00:32:27,630
Josh:
today and it really does work you have your own chauffeur.

517
00:32:28,530 --> 00:32:31,310
Ejaaz:
To be honest, the most shocking thing from this news update,

518
00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:35,790
Ejaaz:
Josh, is that you spent the week driving around in Waymo's, dude. You know what?

519
00:32:36,190 --> 00:32:39,730
Josh:
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, man. I got to know what's going on over there.

520
00:32:40,290 --> 00:32:42,970
Ejaaz:
There's 2,500 of them out there right now, right?

521
00:32:43,210 --> 00:32:46,450
Josh:
Oh, and it looks like it. It's unbelievable. Just a sidebar on LA.

522
00:32:46,590 --> 00:32:47,610
Josh:
There are robots everywhere.

523
00:32:47,870 --> 00:32:50,930
Josh:
There's robots rolling down the street delivering food. There's Waymo's that

524
00:32:50,930 --> 00:32:53,990
Josh:
are driving in the streets. It feels like a futuristic place relative to New York City.

525
00:32:54,050 --> 00:32:55,990
Ejaaz:
Did you make it out to the Tesla diner this time?

526
00:32:55,990 --> 00:33:00,770
Josh:
Yes, and enjoyed every moment of it. In fact, I was there the week that it opened

527
00:33:00,770 --> 00:33:03,030
Josh:
up because I'm such a fanboy.

528
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:06,690
Josh:
It's a cool experience. I would recommend anyone who is in LA go check it out

529
00:33:06,690 --> 00:33:07,170
Josh:
because it's really fun.

530
00:33:07,650 --> 00:33:11,390
Josh:
It is very good. It's all locally sourced. It's high quality ingredients.

531
00:33:11,610 --> 00:33:15,250
Josh:
It tastes great. It's a really fun and novel experience. So it's worth making

532
00:33:15,250 --> 00:33:16,590
Josh:
a pit stop if anyone's around.

533
00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:21,380
Ejaaz:
Okay, well, if you guys are based in the West Coast or better yet in LA,

534
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,140
Ejaaz:
definitely go check out the diner or get a ride in a Waymo. Let us know. Is it safe?

535
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,080
Ejaaz:
Do you get into a car crash? I personally don't know.

536
00:33:28,140 --> 00:33:31,040
Josh:
And share some pics. It's fun. You get an opportunity to actually sit in the

537
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:32,800
Josh:
future and live that before a lot of people do.

538
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,120
Josh:
So would highly advise. Now, final topic of the week here is a new partnership

539
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,280
Josh:
between OpenAI and Cerebris.

540
00:33:39,460 --> 00:33:41,680
Josh:
I know, Ejaz, you're a Cerebris fan.

541
00:33:42,100 --> 00:33:43,980
Josh:
You're a Cerebris guy. What's going on over here?

542
00:33:44,540 --> 00:33:49,560
Ejaaz:
I'm more kind of concerned that OpenAI is spending money again,

543
00:33:49,860 --> 00:33:51,340
Ejaaz:
despite them burning so much money.

544
00:33:51,420 --> 00:33:52,620
Josh:
How much money are we talking?

545
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,680
Ejaaz:
$10 billion over the next three years. Just $10 billion. By the way,

546
00:33:57,820 --> 00:34:00,280
Ejaaz:
they don't have that $10 billion. Lord knows what it is for.

547
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:01,820
Josh:
They don't have any dollars. They haven't made a profit yet.

548
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,740
Ejaaz:
They haven't made any profit, but with ads, of course. But yes,

549
00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:09,780
Ejaaz:
this is OpenAI's latest and greatest partnership, or rather investment,

550
00:34:09,780 --> 00:34:14,040
Ejaaz:
which is to the tune of $10 billion in this company called Cerebrus.

551
00:34:14,140 --> 00:34:20,700
Ejaaz:
Now, when I read this headline, Josh, I had a flashback because I'd seen the name Cerebrus before.

552
00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:26,720
Ejaaz:
And I remember I'd seen their name in the context of them moaning about another

553
00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:34,100
Ejaaz:
investment, which was NVIDIA's $20 billion investment in a company called Grok, which makes custom,

554
00:34:34,700 --> 00:34:37,860
Ejaaz:
let's call them custom GPUs, but they're not exactly GPUs.

555
00:34:37,860 --> 00:34:41,920
Josh:
Grok with a Q. Grok with a Q, yeah. $20 billion acquisition that just happened.

556
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:42,840
Ejaaz:
$20 billion acquisition.

557
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:43,720
Josh:
$20 billion acquisition.

558
00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:49,300
Ejaaz:
Licensing acquisition, exactly. And NVIDIA made this acquisition so that they

559
00:34:49,300 --> 00:34:51,480
Ejaaz:
would get access to Grok with the queues

560
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:57,400
Ejaaz:
LSUs, they're language-specific units or whatever the hell it stands for.

561
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:03,840
Ejaaz:
And basically, it allows them to process inference at a much cheaper rate.

562
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:08,360
Ejaaz:
And the reason why that's interesting is, okay, trading the model is all well

563
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:09,920
Ejaaz:
and done and you need GPUs to do that.

564
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:15,120
Ejaaz:
But afterwards, you have a ton of people like Josh and I just sending prompts every single hour.

565
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:20,700
Ejaaz:
And it requires a different type of chip that you can make more performant,

566
00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:23,420
Ejaaz:
save you more money, and also make you more money, right?

567
00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:26,800
Ejaaz:
If you can lower the cost of inference, you end up making money on the back

568
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,000
Ejaaz:
end, right? That's what we all want.

569
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,100
Ejaaz:
And so opening, I thought, hmm, I don't have a Grok.

570
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,340
Ejaaz:
What's the next best company to invest in? And that was Cerebrus.

571
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,500
Ejaaz:
Cerebrus, at the time of the NVIDIA acquisition, complained,

572
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,720
Ejaaz:
saying, Grok's not good enough, our chips are better, basically,

573
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:47,460
Ejaaz:
because they wanted this kind of salty that they didn't get the investment.

574
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,800
Ejaaz:
Now they're getting it from OpenAI, Josh.

575
00:35:50,220 --> 00:35:55,120
Ejaaz:
And so why would OpenAI do it at this time? Well, they received a big bit of

576
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,700
Ejaaz:
criticism for one of their products, Josh, and that is their coding model called Codex.

577
00:36:00,180 --> 00:36:06,260
Ejaaz:
They were told that it was too slow and Cloud Code not only was smarter, but a lot quicker.

578
00:36:06,860 --> 00:36:10,960
Ejaaz:
Well, Josh, a bit of news dropped in the last week, which actually you and I

579
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,700
Ejaaz:
didn't even catch. We caught it at the last minute. um

580
00:36:14,370 --> 00:36:17,810
Ejaaz:
OpenAI dropped Codex Max High.

581
00:36:18,030 --> 00:36:21,230
Ejaaz:
God knows why they called it that, but it's their latest coding model,

582
00:36:21,370 --> 00:36:23,690
Ejaaz:
which is a lot smarter than it was.

583
00:36:23,810 --> 00:36:26,010
Ejaaz:
It's almost at parity with Cloud Code, but not quite as good.

584
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:27,910
Ejaaz:
But most importantly, it's quicker.

585
00:36:28,270 --> 00:36:29,690
Ejaaz:
And the rumors state that the

586
00:36:29,690 --> 00:36:34,790
Ejaaz:
reason why it's 15 times quicker is because they're using Cerebrus chips.

587
00:36:34,990 --> 00:36:38,370
Ejaaz:
So they have this specific custom chip. It's huge. I've seen a picture of this

588
00:36:38,370 --> 00:36:39,730
Ejaaz:
thing. It's the size of a dinner plate.

589
00:36:39,830 --> 00:36:45,010
Ejaaz:
It looks absolutely ridiculous, but it's more performant and will allow OpenAI

590
00:36:45,010 --> 00:36:49,670
Ejaaz:
to charge more on the backend whilst also delivering enough compute for anyone

591
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:52,290
Ejaaz:
and everyone that wants to use it for coding.

592
00:36:52,930 --> 00:36:56,790
Josh:
Yeah, it's a 10 times faster than GPU-based inference performance boost.

593
00:36:56,930 --> 00:36:59,610
Josh:
So this is going to be a huge increase in performance.

594
00:36:59,790 --> 00:37:03,150
Josh:
Now they have the performance. Do they have the actual intelligence?

595
00:37:03,390 --> 00:37:06,950
Josh:
That's the next question that remains to be seen. So is it going to be valuable

596
00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:11,470
Josh:
if it's faster, even though the tokens that it's generating are a bit inferior to Anthropic?

597
00:37:11,650 --> 00:37:16,190
Josh:
I don't know. But again, this is kind of a testament to the strategy of open

598
00:37:16,190 --> 00:37:19,250
Josh:
AI, which is being fighting basically every war on all fronts.

599
00:37:19,250 --> 00:37:20,450
Josh:
They're trying to win consumer.

600
00:37:20,590 --> 00:37:22,750
Josh:
They're trying to win institutional and business.

601
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:25,870
Josh:
They're trying to compete on coding while also doing image generation,

602
00:37:26,110 --> 00:37:28,310
Josh:
while also doing video generation.

603
00:37:28,610 --> 00:37:32,790
Josh:
So they're trying to be the best across the board. And it seems like as a result,

604
00:37:32,930 --> 00:37:34,190
Josh:
they're becoming kind of...

605
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,900
Josh:
Not the best at anything. And I'm not sure where that strategy leads,

606
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,140
Josh:
but it appears as if they're going to continue doing that based on their ad

607
00:37:43,140 --> 00:37:45,560
Josh:
strategy and now this acquisition of Cerebra.

608
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,500
Josh:
So time will tell how this actually pans out. Do you want to hear.

609
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:50,500
Ejaaz:
My tinfoil hat

610
00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:51,860
Josh:
Conspiracy, Josh?

611
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:57,220
Ejaaz:
I also read earlier this week, Josh, what is the Neuralink competitor that Sam soldered?

612
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,040
Ejaaz:
Is it Merge Labs or something like that? It's Merge, right?

613
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,340
Josh:
I think that's probably right. Yeah, I know he has a competitor.

614
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:10,640
Ejaaz:
Guess which AI lab made a massive investment in Merge Labs this week as well? Who? OpenAI.

615
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,560
Josh:
No. So he's just buying his own bags across the board. It's kind of annoying.

616
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,160
Ejaaz:
It's annoying, right? Because he also secretly has equity in this thing.

617
00:38:19,580 --> 00:38:23,080
Josh:
Is he using investor money as exit liquidity? Yes, that's exactly what he's doing.

618
00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:24,180
Ejaaz:
Yeah, it's sus, right?

619
00:38:24,180 --> 00:38:29,200
Josh:
On the back of a $135 billion lawsuit, I think this is probably going to be

620
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,080
Josh:
a big trend for the year, is just evaluating the...

621
00:38:32,510 --> 00:38:37,950
Josh:
Ethics and strategy of OpenAI as they have gone from non-profit to for-profit

622
00:38:37,950 --> 00:38:42,550
Josh:
and now continue to acquire the same companies that are on the CEO's balance sheet.

623
00:38:43,410 --> 00:38:47,810
Josh:
It's interesting. There's a lot of good lore here that we still have to unpack.

624
00:38:48,170 --> 00:38:51,010
Josh:
But I think that's enough unpacking for today. We covered quite a bit.

625
00:38:51,390 --> 00:38:54,150
Josh:
That's going to be the end of the episode. We have another roundup coming later

626
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:55,790
Josh:
this week. There's so much stuff to talk about.

627
00:38:56,550 --> 00:38:58,110
Josh:
But yeah, that was another.

628
00:38:58,330 --> 00:39:01,710
Ejaaz:
Well, I was going to say, you might have noticed if you're listening to this,

629
00:39:01,710 --> 00:39:04,650
Ejaaz:
that we didn't mention two of the hottest topics this week.

630
00:39:04,830 --> 00:39:10,330
Ejaaz:
Anthropic releasing Claude Cowork and Google taking over the entire AI world

631
00:39:10,330 --> 00:39:13,610
Ejaaz:
with four product releases, including personal intelligence.

632
00:39:13,870 --> 00:39:17,930
Ejaaz:
We actually made dedicated episodes to both of those. And if you don't know

633
00:39:17,930 --> 00:39:21,810
Ejaaz:
what we're talking about, you missed it. And you should definitely go and watch those.

634
00:39:21,990 --> 00:39:26,430
Ejaaz:
In fact, Josh wrote a banger of a newsletter essay in our newsletter.

635
00:39:26,610 --> 00:39:27,770
Ejaaz:
So you should sign up for that as well.

636
00:39:28,130 --> 00:39:31,390
Ejaaz:
Turn on notifications wherever you listen or watch these things.

637
00:39:31,710 --> 00:39:34,710
Ejaaz:
I know some of you can't bear to look at our faces, so you just listen to our voices.

638
00:39:35,130 --> 00:39:38,710
Ejaaz:
That's totally fine. Turn on notifications, subscribe. It helps us out so much.

639
00:39:39,230 --> 00:39:42,090
Ejaaz:
And yeah, we'll see you on the next episode. We're filming a pretty interesting one.

640
00:39:42,110 --> 00:39:45,410
Josh:
Can we link a little bit of alpha here? Yes, please. For anyone who subscribes

641
00:39:45,410 --> 00:39:48,390
Josh:
to the newsletter, the piece that's coming out this week, EJES,

642
00:39:48,410 --> 00:39:52,110
Josh:
I believe, is going to be on XAI and about why XAI is undervalued,

643
00:39:52,210 --> 00:39:55,350
Josh:
how valuable it can get, kind of a continuation of the conversation we had today.

644
00:39:55,450 --> 00:39:59,570
Josh:
So if that seems interesting, that's going to drop on Wednesday of this week.

645
00:39:59,570 --> 00:40:03,690
Josh:
So subscribe in order to get access to that and see a little bit more detail

646
00:40:03,690 --> 00:40:08,290
Josh:
as to why we suspect XAI is going to have the success that we believe it will

647
00:40:08,290 --> 00:40:09,590
Josh:
be, which will be very, very high.

648
00:40:09,950 --> 00:40:13,510
Josh:
But yeah, that concludes the episode. Thank you all so much for watching. We appreciate it.

649
00:40:14,010 --> 00:40:15,910
Josh:
Appreciate you sharing with your friends, doing all the good things.

650
00:40:15,950 --> 00:40:17,470
Josh:
And we will see you guys in the next one.

651
00:40:17,850 --> 00:40:18,150
Ejaaz:
See ya.