Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Amy Egan podcast.
My name is Gary Stocker and regularly coach Amy Egan, the head women's
basketball coach at Lyndenwood University joins us to talk about basketball
academics and much, much more.
Coach Egan, welcome back.
It's good to see you again.
It's great to see you.
I feel like it's been a while.
And you brought us a fascinating guest today, Coach Darrell Watkins is the coach
at Junior College, Rock Valley Junior College.
And you've got some questions for Coach Watkins and so do I.
Amy, I'll let you lead off.
Yeah, absolutely.
First I want to introduce Darryl to everyone.
And I would almost consider us family because I've known him for about 25 years
here, going strong all the way back to our AU for life, as we would say days.
AU stands for Ashford, and Ashford no longer exists as a school.
So we go way, way back, and I've known him for years.
And I definitely consider Darryl a really good friend of mine and an amazing coach.
And I wanted to bring him on here today to talk a little bit about the junior college
world and get some thoughts and some answers from him in regards to, you know,
junior college and some benefits and so forth with it.
So I think he's just a great, great example of all the success that you can
have as a junior college coach.
And so let me tell you a little bit about his background just so everybody knows.
I know we'll have a lot of listeners from this area that probably do not know a lot
about Rock Valley and obviously Darryl.
So he's been the head coach at Rock Valley College for four seasons now.
They are the Golden Eagles, is their mascot.
He has posted an amazing 105 and 29 overall record, going 23 -1 in the North
Central Community College Conference.
So just had a ton of success at the junior college level.
He in four years as a head coach, he has coached three NJCAA D3 All -Americans, two
first teamers, one second teamer.
He's coached two WBCA All -American players, both honorable mentions.
And he's coached three NJCAA Top 40 Rising Sophomore All -Stars.
In his team's postseason run, the Golden Eagles have captured three NJCAA region
four championships, a NJCAA Great Lakes District Championship, a Midwest B
District Championship, and three NJCAA national tournament appearances, two at
the division three level and one at the division two level.
At those national tournaments, the Golden Eagles have a third place finish in 2020
and a lead eight appearance in 2024.
So you talk about a guy that we're getting on here with a ton of success.
That's a rising, no, I shouldn't say rising because he is a star in this
business, but also a really good friend of mine.
I'm really excited to have Darrell here.
So welcome Darrell.
I also want to point out just so everybody knows, Darrell also coaches a very
successful AU program called the Midwest Wildcats.
And I don't know you can kind of tell us how long you've been doing that Darryl,
but I know you've had a lot of success in that area too.
I've been coaching the Midwest Wildcats now for 12 years.
So right after my first season as an assistant coach for my former boss, Misty
Opat, who's out at Cochise Community College right now, Chuck Lynn reached out
to me and he was looking for somebody to come coach his 15 -year group with the
program at the time.
And I have not looked back since and it's been an amazing experience.
It's put me in some rooms with some people I've been able to meet coaches.
from the kids that we've had within that program, not even with our junior college
kids as well too.
Just this past year, this past season, we had five kids on our Rock Valley team that
were from that program that didn't get what they wanted out of high school.
And they had successful careers here.
So it's been fun and it's been full circle.
I started off with the 15U group, with that group, quickly transitioned to 17U
and now I'm back with the babies again this year.
Hope it ends again.
kind of fun to raise them a little bit, right?
So, well, let's kind of dive into some of these questions and then some things we
want to talk about and see kind of where it takes us.
So I think, you know, Darryl, a lot of people at this level could learn a lot
these days from junior college coaches in regards to how this transfer portal is
working and a lot of rosters changing over year to year.
And,
You know, I've heard a lot of people even say, you know, if you can get junior
college people on your staff, or if you can, you know, hire them as even head
coaches at this level, they could be possibly very valuable because they're
used to some of this.
So can you give me some of your thoughts on this?
Can you talk about how, you know, I think it would be important for like even
coaches at our level as this is happening to understand like how you manage even
culture with it, how you manage changing your roster over every.
You know, every year, how many kids you have to bring in, those kind of things.
Mm -hmm.
Well, it's a real interesting time, you know, just to see it at the four -year
level.
You know, just the quick turnover, you know, and the quick constant transfer that
everyone's going through right now.
And it's kind of funny because it's been happening at our level.
You know, this has been our life from day one.
So from day one, when I first started coaching, I started off at the junior
college level.
That's been the life I've always known.
You know, you get an eight -month window.
So if you're lucky, you get that 10 month window if you really can maximize your
time with them.
And you come in and you try to really get them to mold to the culture.
You try to develop their skills on the court, develop their academics so you can
be able to get them in and get them out within that time.
You get kids that want to come in and you get your one and done's or you get kids
that do end up being there for two years.
So you get lucky with those groups.
But just being able to have that constant turnover and getting kids to really mold
and.
into that culture has been huge.
And with us, the culture never changes.
We stick to our guns.
We have our non -negotiables, but we're definitely adapting with what times are
coming right now as well.
We want the best skilled kid athlete that we can get.
We want the highest possible recruit that we can possibly get, but we're also not
going to...
sell our soul if you want to say for those kids to come in because we do have that
short, short, short, short window that we get with them.
And it only takes one bad apple to kind of derail a train that you got.
So Coach Watkins, I don't think I said this as we got started this morning, but
I'm faculty at Lindowood.
So a lot of my questions focus on the academic part of what's going on.
And as you bring in these 17, 18, and 19 year olds to Rock Valley, what is their
focus on academics?
Is it a strong focus at the community college level?
Are most of them looking to get that college degree somewhere down the road?
Yes, they are.
And granted, you get some kids that come in and we all know it and I know Coach
Egan probably knows it that you get some kids that are there just to play
basketball and they make it known like, you know, I'm going to college so I can
play basketball.
But we also try to reel them back in and get them to understand the importance of
getting that college degree, whether that's an associate's degree.
And ultimately, you want them to get their bachelor's degree, you know, because
that...
that piece of paper holds weight and it allows them to be able to open doors and
meet people and transition into an adult life that they can be very successful at.
So it's a very, very high bar set for us and we want those student athletes to be
able to get their degrees and the focus on education is huge because one, for us,
we're trying to move those athletes on to whether it's the Division I level, the
Division II level.
So they really have to focus on their academics to have the highest possible
GPA.
to be able to get to there.
So, you know, if you're not taking care of your business in the classroom, we tell
them all day long, you know, we're wasting our time on the court.
You can be the best player.
And if you're not taking care of your business in the classroom, we're wasting
our time.
And that's probably one of the first questions you get from a college coach,
isn't it?
Like, where are their academics?
Are they gonna graduate?
I know at our level, that's really, really important.
And it saves them years if they're graduating on at that next level type
stuff.
So it's probably something that you really gotta have a big hand in.
Here's you go.
if somebody's calling us, they already know the kid can somewhat play.
So the first question is always, what's the transcript looking like?
Are they gonna graduate?
Is the GPA good there?
Do they go to class?
Those are some of the first few questions I get all the time.
And it's kind of funny that those are some of the first ones lined up, but it comes
with the nature of it.
And I get it, these kids are here, they gotta take care of the business in the
classroom in order.
Absolutely.
So you've been coaching for a lot of years now.
Okay.
And I know you were an assistant beforehand and got some great experience
under a very, very well -known coach, Misty Opp.
Can you tell us a little bit about some of the changes that you've seen with like
your athletes at the junior college level, like even recruiting them, those kinds of
things.
And then I'm just curious, like has, it has NIL, is that impacting you?
Is it not impacting you guys at the junior college level?
Like where some of that sits?
I would say, there's been a little bit.
It's not a little bit.
It's been a major change, you know, what the junior college level with the, with
the level of kid that is playing right now, at our level, with the portal, just,
you know, kind of piggybacking back to that, you know, a lot of kids are getting
overlooked at the high school level.
and you know, coaches are taking portal kids first, or they're taking transfers
from, from the junior college level first.
And obviously you have your high level.
high schoolers that are going to get picked up.
But some of those kids that may have been mid -major or low -major kids or high
-level Division II kids are now constantly getting overlooked.
And they're somewhat betting on themselves.
And they're coming in.
They're like, you know what?
I know I can play at a higher level than.
And there's nothing wrong with Division III or NAIA.
They're like, I know I can play at a higher level than that.
And they're coming in and they're betting on themselves.
And we had a group of them this year.
And they're like, we know we're better than this.
And they come in and they work hard.
And
They get the job done and they ended up going to Division I.
And then to kind of talk about your NILs, it really hasn't impacted us majorly yet,
but I feel like it's on the way.
It's really on the way.
It's probably going to end up happening this year because you're seeing a lot of
these high school kids come in with deals when they're going to those four years.
And if you have a brand, if you have a social media backing, I feel like anybody
can take advantage of the NIL.
And we've had some kids that have had, they have their brand kind of going right
now.
Maybe it's t -shirts.
We had a kid that's really into photography and she's pushing that right
now.
And then we have a couple of kids that really took advantage of the bubblers and
the bucked up protein shake program and everything that way.
And all they gotta do is when they're working out, they're taking a picture of
the bubbler.
But you know, this...
This is a great energy for me and with the bucked up, this is a great recovery drink
and it's just kind of funny.
It's on the minor side of things.
It's like, okay, I see you guys and I'm walking around and they got their phone in
the way where I'm like, what are you doing?
nevermind.
I get it.
I see you.
Nevermind.
I get it.
So it's kind of starting to like...
trickle its way down to our level and it's probably only a matter of time before you
know and it's not not on the major dollar sign that you see it at the highest level
but it's only a matter of time before it really you know puts its foot in our
Interesting.
And then, you know, back to the academic side, coach, the high school coaches
themselves, and I know you work with them to get players to Rock Valley.
What kind of guidance are you seeing from high school coaches providing their
players really on the academic side?
You're seeing a lot of high school coaches push it, you know, because sometimes
you're getting those coaches that are teachers, that are educators, that, you
know, they may be counselors in the building, they may be administrators
within the building.
So they're pushing the academic side really big.
And a lot of times we're starting to see a shift a lot of times with it now that, you
know, these educators within the high school realms are pushing kids to
community colleges now.
If you're in, let's just be honest, not every kid is a division one kid or a
division two kid.
Not every kid is going to go to school for free on an athletic scholarship.
So you're getting a lot of these, you know, these secondary education, you know,
professionals pushing these students to go community college route because they're
going to save a major dollar and it's going to save their families a major
dollar.
And, you know, when I worked in the high school saying, you know, that was the
biggest thing I pushed, I didn't.
I didn't care what level it was.
If you had a scholarship, you had to really entertain it.
And the biggest thing I know, I was telling our student athletes and I know
some of my coaching buddies that are in the high schools are telling their student
athletes is, is you don't want student loan debt.
That is the biggest thing you don't want.
And that's the biggest guidance a lot of these kids are getting right now is you
don't want student loan debt.
And the...
more you can avoid that or the less price tag you have to pay at the end of the day
is major for a lot of these students, especially the first generation college
students as well.
Just a quick follow up.
of goes into kind of that stigma that, you know, I think a lot of people have maybe
with junior colleges that you you if you go to a junior college, maybe you're not
smart enough to go to a four year or, you know, something like that.
And I think that's so false.
And I think I think, you know, people need to make sure that they understand that
that that is false.
And that's not true.
And there's so many benefits you can get from being at the junior college level,
you know, in regards to some of the basketball stuff.
I mean,
You know, I think just sometimes experience, you know, if you're looking at
sitting on the bench at a four -year verse, you know, possibly playing
immediately and getting some experience.
I think experience goes so far.
So I think there's definitely some benefits.
Would you agree with that?
I definitely agree.
You know, you see a major jump with us for those kids that come back for their
sophomore year.
You see that that biggest jump from May to August.
That's the biggest jump we see with those kids is after they've gotten a year under
their belt and they could have been the most successful year it ever was for them.
But we still see that biggest jump when they go from May to August, because now
they've played a season.
Now they know the day to days that they got to go, you know, go through.
and how they're gonna act accordingly every single day, you know, within the
classroom, within the nutrition side, within the weight room side, their on
-court individual workouts.
And that jump that they take from May to August is huge.
And the benefits of going to Junko is amazing.
You know, like you said, sometimes you get that immediate impact.
You hop right on the court.
And just with us, you know, here, we're playing a schedule.
We're going out and we're trying to play the best of the best.
And we travel.
We're in Florida this past season.
We flew to Florida this past season.
We're going to Arizona this season.
We're in Missouri.
We've played against the top D1 Jukos when we were Division III forever.
It didn't matter what level it was.
We played against the top Jukos and we tried to seek them out.
And it's the same thing we're going into this year.
Our month of November and December for the 24, 25 season, we probably bit off a
little bit more than what we could chew, but we're playing.
We're playing.
10 to 12 of the top 15 D1 or D2 Jukes within that first two months.
But granted, the kids are on a stage, they're gonna be on a national stage,
they're gonna be seen, they're gonna be playing against other top national talent.
And we've built ourselves up to that and we're not gonna run away from it.
And that's kinda what we promise to our kids when they come in, that you're gonna
play against the best.
And you're gonna have a chance to showcase your talents and your skills.
And -
And we also tell them when they're on their visits, this isn't last chance you.
And Netflix kind of painted a bad picture for junior colleges out here.
And it's not anything like that.
Yes, you do have some kids that did not make the grades.
And yes, you do have some kids that are some troublemakers.
But that's not 80 % of the landscape in junior college athletics.
So.
Gary, I just got really excited.
And when he was talking about that jump from freshmen to sophomores with us having
nine freshmen last year and they played a lot, man, we should be really, really good
this year.
He's telling me.
Yeah, hey, you guys made jumps.
I watched a lot of your games and a lot of single digits, a lot of single digit
battles right there.
And like you said, you're gonna make that jump.
You guys do a good job.
Coach, my last question, I think Coach Egan has a final question.
And this is kind of a fun question.
So I am at most, almost all of Linda Woods Women's Games here in the St.
Louis area.
And on occasion, Amy and I tease about referees.
And you can imagine the type of conversation that is.
And that's just kind of a setup to this.
All coaches, all fans.
Matter of fact, I was a high school basketball referee when I was younger and
Amy knows that as well.
Matter of fact, I'm doing some refereeing for you at a clinic.
or camp here in a couple of weeks, right?
Yeah, you are.
You're going to actually teach some of our girls how to ref, right?
We've got to expand and get better at that.
one foot in front of the other, I'm good to go.
My question though is not about referees.
They do the best they can.
There's no question.
What do you teach though?
What do you teach your players when things don't go their way in the context of
refereeing?
Because you know that happens.
Yeah, all day long, we try to teach our kids just the, you know, if a call doesn't
go your way, hand the official the ball and you know, just walk away.
And it's okay to have a conversation, but it's not okay to yell and it's not okay to
show your body language to that official.
You know, it's okay to be an adult and have a conversation and ask a question,
you know, well, what did I do wrong?
And not in the ways of showing them up.
And I tell our kids all day long, let me fight the.
Let me be the ones to get on the officials.
Let me be the one to have my sarcastic jabs that I do have sometimes within the
games.
And sometimes, official will be running down there like, did he really just say
that to me?
But then they think about it and then next play down, it could have been the same
exact play that happens and we've gotten a few calls that way.
And the kids are like, my God, you got away with that.
Yeah, cuz I'm not trying to show them up.
I'm not trying to be disrespectful to any of them or, yeah.
And I'm, trust me, I'm bad.
I have my sarcastic jabs that I say within games, but it's never to disrespect them.
It's never to show them up.
It's never to make people in the crowd realize what we're talking about.
We'll have conversations and I'll just have them in the calmest manner with them.
Interesting.
You know, and I think it's, I tell, you know, our women and just people in general
around basketball, like if you, if you can handle being, you know, a ref and you can
handle some of that, man, what a great business to be in, right?
You're going to move up fast.
You can have a lot of success.
You can be around some great people and, and see some amazing experiences, but it
is a hard, hard, I think job to have, you know, within regards to some of the
criticism you have to take and, and so forth with it.
But.
I think it's something that would really help if we can continue to push young
women in that direction would really help our game for sure with it.
So.
you said, like you hit on it a little bit, you got to have some tough skin.
But I mean, the way the shortages are right now, you know, this is something
like you said, you can hop in easily and work your way up very fast.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, can I throw a little question that wasn't on the sheet at you?
I need I need the 32nd answer to why I should come play for Darryl Watkins.
30 second answer to why you should come play for Darryl Wacken.
So this is what all of our recruits get.
For one, you're gonna come in, you're gonna play a fun brand of basketball.
We're gonna get up and down.
We love the score to basketball.
We average 90 points a game and we've done that over the past four years.
We scored 10 ,000 points in the last four years.
But the one thing we're gonna do is we're gonna defend, which is why we've had
success.
We hold teams to under...
30 % shooting from the field, just at 30 % shooting from the field, 27 % from the
three point line.
We out rebound our opponents by 15 plus on a yearly average and we share the wealth.
So it's nothing about our team that's selfish.
We're gonna move the basketball.
We average about 20 assists per game.
And then the thing that everybody wants to do is we're gonna win and we're gonna be
successful and then you're gonna be able to proceed on.
And one thing I preach is we're gonna succeed and then you're gonna proceed.
So.
Interesting.
Well, I.
you guys.
I would tell you that for sure.
appreciate that.
Well, we're at the end of our time with Coach Egan and Coach Watkins.
Coach Watkins, thanks again for making time for us today.
Again, Coach Jarrah Watkins is the head coach at Rock Valley Junior College.
Been ridiculously successful as we talked about.
Coach Egan, always good to have you on your podcast.
And we'll be back again soon with another edition of the Amy Egan podcast.
Thanks for listening.
Thank you.