I'm Caitlin Madison.
Welcome to chapter 32.
We will be talking about All My Rage today by, I believe you pronounce it, Saba
Tahir.
And our catch up today, we kind of already talking about a little bit before we hit
record.
And honestly, we're watching really good TV right now.
And like that's what we want to catch up with each other about.
So that's what we're gonna do.
So what are people watching?
I just started last night and I'm already upset that I haven't finished yet.
It's called Dancing with the Devil.
It's this documentary that seems to be, I hesitate to say viral.
Like it's showing up in a lot of places.
Steph just shared with us.
came out of the disco.
It's not just German, it's the People magazine, or whatever.
We're going to check it out.
It's about this cult called 7M.
7M mainly.
7M is a media company associated with the cult.
Okay, Shekinah Church, Shekinah Church, slash seven slash seven management.
The reason why I'm so interested in it is because the first episode that I watched
focused mostly on dancers who became part of this group.
We haven't really talked about this, I don't think before on the pod, but I used
to be a die hard watcher of So You Think You Can Dance.
Those people are like celebrities to me.
I also watched World of Dance, which was the JLo judged show.
I just love that kind of, I get J .Lo in the book.
performance.
So I recognized some of these people.
And I just had no idea that they were participating in this group or that they
were impacted by this at all.
I watched part one, there are three parts, but all I want to do as soon as we finish
this recording is watch the next two episodes and I've been screenshotting
other people's commentary to read when I finally finish.
You and I both loved the show Dear White People.
Have you seen the person who was on that show who's a side character in this
documentary?
I don't want I so I know nothing about this I literally have just seen it as like
a thumbnail on Netflix But Steph and Molly are really into it.
So clearly I'm gonna cue it up for my next show Please tell me like twitch was not a
part of this
not mentioned in any way.
The people who are part of it, I don't think like the Joe average person would
recognize them.
I think it's only for people who are left now and he played Simon in...
my god Nicholas Galatine and Hathaway thank you my brain's not working from
August Moon he's in it
I don't even really know what it means to be in it.
Like, I don't know, like, if you were in a, is everybody, was everybody in the cult
in the show?
essentially when you join the Shekinah Church, I don't want to like give stuff
away, but basically a lot of dancers happen to join.
He becomes their manager.
He gets them gigs and then he takes 75, 80 percent of their profits and they live on
his properties.
boy.
This feels kind of Playboy Mansion Tiger King -ish.
So Tiger King.
was gonna say that to me is the part that
was so reminiscent of many of the other cult docs that we've watched, like NXIVM
and a bunch of others.
It's the separation from the family and the use of religion as a reason why you
need to isolate yourself and focus only on the other people who are enlightened or
whatever verb they decide to use.
And there was one specific dancer who they profiled in the first hour who was talking
about how they even wanted him to stop talking to his three -year -old son.
And we'll take one of them, that was just like, my god.
So I can't wait to watch parts two and three.
I also like that it's only three hours total.
I feel like sometimes you go to watch these cult docs and it's like nine parts
and it's an entire weekend endeavor.
I like that this is like almost like a mini series.
Or the next one, which was two seasons, and it's just depressing.
Would you like to keep that to me?
And I'm coming back, don't you get over this, this crazy disaster here?
And I was thinking, I love the comics and Pimper, why?
And I was thinking, like, we need all of you guys?
though.
to a podcast about it before it became a show.
I don't even think I watched the second season, because I like keep up with it on
the new, but I keep up with it on the new, like I know what's happening.
I know, but I feel like we got more backstory than we got on the first one.
And in the meantime, you're following the court case as it's going along.
I just think it's for wrapping up the full arc you need to watch season two.
Speaking of cults, there's a podcast called Sounds Like a Cult and my coworker
just suggested it to me based on some weird conversation we were having.
I don't remember what.
But that segues really nicely to I am like in the throes of the end of school.
I have like two classes left with my students.
I finished my break for today.
I was like writing my narrative about kids.
And I put that in the check and keep at the end of the year too.
Like I can't stand it.
Like you're so stressed about like submitting all your grades and doing all
your crap.
And then also you're like saying, why did you feel that you saw a deaf person all
day?
And I can't even imagine.
I can't imagine.
because I haven't done it since 2020.
Do you mean like, emotionally?
Yes, I'm terrible at it.
Like, such a sappy sentiment.
Like, crap.
Like, I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna do it.
I'm Well, she's one of those old people.
So...
not good at it, full stop.
But then in addition to that, I'm out of practice.
And then on top of that, I'm also leaving my school.
And I can't imagine a scenario in which I'm just going to randomly bump into these
kids because they live everywhere.
Whereas when I was teaching in Natick, I still see Natick kids all the time because
I do stuff in Natick.
Like I have friends that live there.
I've gone to like
basketball games with my former students, like there's just like,
bumped into we bumped into one of your students students we went to get ramen one
time you remember?
Yes, yes.
And I had a sister too.
Yeah, that's so true.
His sister is a faculty of the class of production.
So I'm terrible at it and I'm out of practice and it's just like, and then I
also have another job while I'm doing it.
So I feel like I don't even have like time to kind of like process it.
And then there's like the agony of like packing up your classroom and like, you
know,
years now.
I'm in contact with it.
It's like, you feel it.
I'm in it.
I'm in in it.
I'm I'm in it.
it.
I'm I'm
instantly gonna put on the checklist and now I'm like, it's all one.
I feel like I'm, I feel like I'm, I'm just, I'm once more kind of like,
physically excited about it.
and.
And, but then I'm like, I think I have to go.
I'm trying to encourage people to not be afraid about it.
You know what I mean?
I'm just sitting here, I'm just talking to myself.
I'm just reading this book, I'm just chatting with the teacher.
My friend is in the top, because I, I'm just.
it probably is in like the traditional way like I still tutor and stuff
but if everyone's talking about the future and the positive changes that students
face and care about them and talking about what's going on, talking about getting
along with them and how to address them, you know, trajectory, student -led, you
talk about the future, you talk about the future, you future, you future, you
there are teachers...
who truly, truly care and you were one of those teachers.
And I just, I refuse to believe that this is the end.
just a matter of time to find a place that's a good fit and doesn't turn into a
stressful one.
Like I said, right now, if I was back in junior public school, we would not be a
side out.
So obviously, I can tell you what those sections are.
You see them, you know, they're like, they're a great fit.
They were like, I'm a side out.
When I started getting into skiing, I was so stressed out because I would come back
just completely behind.
I'd be days behind for weeks to come because I went skiing and did something
with my life.
So I'm just wondering if there's something that I can do to help you change your
mind.
too.
Okay, two things.
First of all, Steph almost just cried saying all that stuff to you about how she
thinks that you're not done being a teacher.
You guys can't see her, but there was welling going on.
Second of all, I also think this isn't the end.
I just feel like this is your calling.
This is what you're meant to do.
And even if it didn't work out for this upcoming school year in the way that you
wanted or hoped, like a door closes and a window opens, I just, I feel like there's
gonna be something else.
I don't know what it is.
And I'm kind of like, okay with that.
Like I'm very much excited about.
a 3D movie.
One more to view.
One more to see.
I mean that is a bit something I still like to watch.
I think I'm going to again.
I'm going to have this again.
I'm to do this again.
I'm I'm I'm going to
arrange that perhaps over Zoom or webinar so that you can feel the joy of her
talking about books in an academic setting.
won't drink on that job, I promise.
As I slurp wine, Steph did not pour me in.
I was like, actually, that's not enough.
I had to go back for more.
But to get, I don't know how I got off on that.
I don't know where that, how I got steered to that from television, but back to
television, I'm watching.
Obviously, I'm in my feelings, so I'm having a school -based show, because this
is who I am, and school is my aesthetic for everything, books, TV shows.
So two things.
One, at the end of every year, I
show some episodes of the Wonder Years because coming of age is like always a big
theme.
in sixth grade English.
A little bit of sixth grade English, but really sixth grade English, which is where
I spent most of my time.
And so I posted a photo yesterday of the cast of The One and the Sixth.
And I was like, me too.
I'm like, this is a princess ride.
And I was like, great.
She's a little bit of a longer period.
And I was like, no, this is a little bit too large.
And I was like, I'm gonna call it.
So today I played the pilot for them.
And...
I'm not kidding, I tweeted about this today.
I'm not kidding.
In year 2014, 12 of us, within 28 minutes, are so invested in Jenningsville, who
lives in the old house in 1968.
We just want to show you how we pilot for those first two years of our practice now.
just three minutes, talking about Black Lives Matter.
like all the historical events starting with 1619 that have like led to that being
a movement.
so it's the beginning of one year.
It's true.
And we're finished here.
So we're going to continue to drive.
things across that 10 ,000 -year -long time.
And it showed that it didn't block out the fire.
got their
gold as a sailor and all this stuff.
And I'm like, my god, you know, I'm a holiday.
And so they're like, how do you see this?
What's happening?
Where can I go?
What can I do?
So I'm just going to sit in my car and watch the second episode and I'm like, I'm
going to go to my friend's house.
season last night and I'm going to ruin it for everybody because I'm 12.
So that's going on in my work life.
And then,
add in my paper like watching the class.
Which they're also calling it the free service, which is not a free service.
That's what they decided to call it, it's a free service.
And it's not a wrap.
Steph is very much into it.
It is a good place to be a grid.
The first term is under the show.
a girl with a sign saying that she hangs up outside of her high school that says,
beware, there's a rapist in there.
And then it kind of expands backwards in time, and the box leading to it.
to that big accident.
And so there have been moments where I'm like, hey, this has a couple of odds
they're totally wrong.
but the storylines are so much richer and like the acting is so much better and...
I just want it to be way more realistic and raw.
It's like 30 reasons why I think it's important to story the truth is how it's
done and how it's done.
And it's part of the experience of the threat in terms of just like high school
seniors, high school seniors in the United States, you know, when you're in super
great clubs.
and...
they have like kind of these like rich social lives that...
price was kind of strong to have.
So it's just kind of like a different kind of new philosophy for these people.
too in Spain, and actually I was talking to my friend about it, she was telling me
it's really that it's beyond me too.
It's like having a violence towards women.
It's not just about rape, apparently.
There's, you know, there's...
a whole movement around.
you know, with missing, with murder, you know, like spousal and murder abuse, like
all sorts of things.
And so, it's just really, it's very hard to describe, and it's really what I
thought.
And they really show the dynamics of the girl and her family.
And that's not like an easy situation.
Like she's kind of all over the place and they don't really know like how to
reprimand her without.
play together.
I mean, she's kind of on the other end of the table, like no one else.
ground her.
then have things get worse because how could they possibly get worse?
So I just feel like there's a lot of really good dynamics in there.
And the female friendships are like fierce in this show.
I'm like really into that.
And I really like that they're focusing more on that than like who these girls are
dating necessarily.
It's awesome.
Steph, what are you watching?
Well, I didn't watch anything yesterday because I was working on a top secret
project that we will discuss at a later date.
But yesterday I spent the day painting a friend's house.
She knew that I wasn't in the middle of a renovation project at the moment and that
I could use some distractions.
So I was painting her upstairs.
And then today we went back to the renovation house, my father and I, to just
go over everything.
And I turned all the thermostats on.
So if the next inspector comes through and is also an idiot, that's already fixed.
But then there was this one moment, and it was a couple of months later, of a video,
and he said, is that on the internet?
And he was like, yeah, great, that's so funny.
Here it was.
a cat.
First of all, I thought you put a human ear, and I was getting very afraid.
Noah bunny ear.
A black and white cat was brought to my dad who was working outside a bunny that
it was destroying and then left pieces of it around the house.
And I was just sort of dry heaving in the corner and he had to move it out of the
way.
So you know you're in the woods when.
There have been a lot of small furry animals involved in this particular
renovation.
Stop buying houses in the woods if you don't want to deal with the consequences.
grew up in the woods.
This is the weirdest thing.
As we have said many times, I'm 40, almost 41.
I grew up in the woods.
I lived in a town where I could see one neighbor.
And one of the weeks my dad was away, I was at the house every day or every other
day.
And I came home with ticks three days in a row.
I lived in the woods my entire life.
And now suddenly I'm like, I can't do it anymore.
Well, you have to wear hats and you have to like pull socks over your jeans.
Yeah.
Well, the earth is exploding.
So it's just hot all the time now.
And I think that the bugs probably, I don't really understand ecosystems, but I
would imagine that bugs are flourishing with warmer weather being around longer.
I have no proof for that, but I mean, if there's flamingos on the Cape.
a different location for the whole thing.
I'm going to be able to find a place on my farm.
Two important things are I have to use the water on the light route to clear it off.
When I'm in the park, I need to go home and work.
It's really bad.
The pollen situation is unreal.
This is the second episode in a row you guys are listening to my voice like this.
I was joking when we did our sound check earlier.
I did a little intro where I said, welcome to Blinzerbuck with the congestion queen.
The pollen situation is vile.
definitely got slammed because you were like traveling and then you came back and
it had just escalated.
Whereas this has been like a slow burn for me where like every other day it looks
like I've been crying when I get to work because my eyes are just like watering the
whole time I'm in the car and it doesn't happen until I leave my house.
You basically need like indoor floor hockey goggles from the moment you leave
your house until you get in your car
we need hazmat suits to be walking around?
foul.
It's so bad.
But okay, but yeah, something.
I just realized I have one more update.
Last night I sent out my first query letter.
Yes.
Wow.
We're to bury the lead.
Awesome.
not, obviously it's not gonna happen on the first query.
I mean, come on, let's, well, trying to be realistic, low expectations going into
this, like bottom of the barrel expectations, maybe even like basement
level expectations at this point.
But I sent out the first one and I feel good about it.
Sort of like, you know, breaking the, I don't break spines on my books, but
essentially.
Yeah.
the question is, did you start with like your number one dream target or someone
further down the list?
like terrified to say that because what if I get an agent one day and then they
listen to this and then they're like...
Can you just show us a number with your hands?
Okay.
All right.
That is not what I would have guessed.
Just throwing that out there.
I'm fascinated.
I'm just fascinated by the whole thing because I'm going to be really honest.
There are some really bogus people out there that get book deals.
Like there just are.
And I just need the universe to just throw a bone to the right people.
And I think this needs to be said, we have plans that are going to help the industry.
And to be there too.
Because we're really, really convinced that like, we've been on the edge of a
body of a drug.
At least not badly.
There's so many of these small stories that are happening.
taken advantage of because we need to like have Iron Man be alive for the eighth time
or whatever.
Like I'm done.
I'm done.
isn't there like rumors of them remaking Twilight?
Like, didn't I hear that?
Okay, first of all, that should not happen.
Original Team Jacob forever.
But second of all, yes, I agree with everything Caitlin just said.
And I have often read a book and said to Steph, I just finished this book and
everything that you have written is better than this book.
I feel that way like multiple times per year.
it's true.
I feel that way too.
I don't know.
I just feel like this is one, you're due and two, it just feels like the right
time.
I feel like the timing is right.
Like the pod is 32 episodes deep.
Like you're due.
You've got another side gig that has to do with the pod.
It's like pod adjacent and like,
we're like we're making moves we're doing things it just feels like this is like the
moment that it's like yep and then stuff got her book deal obviously duh
Well, full disclosure to people who are listening and not sitting at this table.
I texted the girls that I feel like I'm on the edge of a panic attack.
I mean, I haven't had one in about a year now.
I don't know if you remember, but it was about a year ago that I reorganized the
living room.
Poor Nemo sat on the couch like, well, this is what's happening.
So I just feel like I think I have karma built up from like stuff that has happened
over the last couple of years where it feels like...
The new stuff is culminating in the right costume on the edge.
edge of a win.
What just happened?
have something funny to tell you that has to do with this, but I had to look it up.
This is like totally pertinent to what you're saying.
So I sent this tweet to my friend earlier today and I was like, this just hit my
funny bone.
And it says, excuse me while I slip into something more off a cliff.
And I just, I sent it to my friend and she was like, I really needed this.
And I was like, it just really struck me in a funny way.
Like.
Yeah, the pajamas and the cozy clothes, like it's not even enough.
We need like the next level of whatever it is.
Yeah, there's a card that I saw in a store that Stephanie frequent.
And it was so good that I bought five of them.
It was a woman dressed like a fifties housewife holding one of those like silver
cloches that you like deliver food on.
So she's lifting the cloche and its flames are coming out of it.
And it just says on the bottom of the card in small print, life period, totally under
control period.
And I just feel like that is the vibe lately.
have a magnet like that of like a 1950s housewife with like her hair bonded on and
she's like tucked into her bed and the caption is I love not camping.
we bought that tote bag, the exact one that you're describing.
amazing.
I mean, I'd glamp.
And it's not to say that I haven't been camping.
I've gone three times.
I hated it every single time.
I'm so allergic to mosquitoes that it's just like a really bad scene for me.
And I'll never do it again.
I also kind of said.
of napkins, I think, or baby cups that say I'm outdoorsy in the sense that I like to
get drunk on patios.
Yeah.
That just made me think, did we have any bug issues when we were in Wyoming last
summer?
I don't think so, right?
It's pretty dry out there.
It's very arid.
If we did, I would have remembered and I probably never would have stopped talking
about it.
I also travel everywhere with Benadryl anti -age cream because once a bug bite
has ruined a vacation, you never forget what that feels like.
Yeah, and I carry Benadryl all the time because I'm allergic to random types of
nuts.
So.
I also just want to say one more thing before we transition into our book of the
day.
Yesterday, I finally cut the cord.
I gave up my cable.
After 11 years in my house in Watertown of paying for cable plus all the streaming
apps.
to the dark side.
gave up my cable this morning I drove to drop off all my equipment and it was just
so satisfying because my bill is gonna be lowered by two thirds two thirds people
feel like it's the same sort of feeling when you end like a relationship that did
not serve you and you're just like, why did I waste time with that person for so
long?
went in a different direction because I was going to say like when your car
payments are over and stuff like when you have a really bad breakup and I'm like car
payments.
the honest truth, and I've said this to many people who are like, I can't believe
you're still paying for this or I can't believe like, there were two reasons that
I kept it for as long as I did.
One, the primary things that I watch every single week on Bravo TV.
When you are a Bravo fan, there is a whole social media culture about live updating
and sharing recaps afterward.
And it's one of those things where if you are in a situation where you have to wait
24 hours to watch it, you kind of have to avoid your
phone if you don't want to know what's happening with the Housewives or Top Chef
or Southern Charm or whatever.
So I was like, I'd rather just watch it live and be able to like participate in
all of this fandom.
That was the first reason.
The second reason is that all of us have always come to my house together to watch
all of the award shows, the Emmys, the Oscars, sometimes the Grammys, the SAG
Awards, whatever it is.
And I loved that we were able to watch live and watch the red carpet and watch
the awards we handed out.
We have until September when the Emmys air to figure out what we're going to do.
But I also wasn't saying on Netflix this year.
Yes.
SAG Awards are on Netflix and also of course I could punch up like my Hulu for
you know 24 hours so we get
have YouTube TV.
I could just log into your TV.
Also that, but for a long time, those were the two drivers.
I wanted to be part of the Bravo fandom and be able to see stuff in real time.
And then this award show situation, but damn, it felt really good to just hand all
that hardware over.
Also like my living room looks nicer because the giant TiVo box is not there
anymore.
will say so usually I have had YouTube TV since it was beta Because my brother got a
code or something.
I don't really know same thing for gmail He gave me a code for gmail back in the
day tail.
What a nerd he is anyway, so We've had YouTube TV This is my third or fourth
living situation where we've had it and I
I'm one of those people that cancels and then re -ups.
And so I usually cancel it in the summer because Nesson and YouTube TV cannot come
to an agreement.
And so I can't get Red Sox baseball.
And I, unlike Molly Bravo, Galar over here, I have live TV for sports.
Like that's the only reason why I have it.
That's the only thing I watch live on TV.
And so since I couldn't do the Red Sox, they basically want to sell it to a
private play out.
So I just cancel my time.
But this year, and Molly, I can't think about what you want to do.
this, we have to do our best.
That's a really important point to make.
I think it's really important to do it there.
you go.
Okay, so maybe that's what you do.
started watching the, I think it's US national gymnastics championships over the
weekend with Simone and also this like devastatingly handsome guy who won the
men's all around.
I think his name is Brody Malone.
I think.
Yeah, anyway, I was watching it and I was thinking to myself, shoot.
that I cancel this tomorrow.
How am I going to watch the Olympics?
Yeah, that's true.
Steph is a big Olympics person.
And they're happening in Paris.
So it's going to be what, six hours ahead of us.
This is what I did the last couple of Olympics is for those.
I think it's ends up being a month that you're paying, but you up to, I think it's
like $64 a month.
Hulu will give you all the live channels, but it depends what channel the Olympics
is going to be on because I already pay for Peacock.
So maybe.
six.
Yeah.
Also in watching the gymnastics, I was reminded, first of all, the Olympics are
amazing just because the display of athleticism is like unreal, but I was
reminded how it's like the families that always get me.
Yes.
So that's like.
long camera lingering on Simone Biles' entire family while she was doing her
final floor routine.
I was like, this is what I'm here for.
I just want all the family drama, all the backstories, all the like raised by the
grandparents, like everything.
I just want to know it all.
I want to know all the people who like had a child and then came back to qualify for
the Olympics.
I just I love hearing everything.
And also it's hard for me to choose if I like summer or winter Olympics more.
diving, beach volleyball.
Summer is the winter mall.
It's like, it's not even close, honestly.
Yeah, there's just so many good sports.
in the Winter Olympics and then
Right,
saw everything that you just said, Molly, like all the stories and the drama and the
whatnot, what have you.
Can I introduce you to professional fucking sports because it's the same
thing.
You get all the backstories, you get all the drama.
A lot of these people have, they're like, they're like have eight baby mamas and
like they got drafted when they were 18 and bought their mom's Hummers.
Am I talking about LeBron?
Yeah, I am.
And so like there's all kinds of content within a bunch of films.
And you have to do massive amounts of money so they can do a lot of the stuff
that they want to do.
And then as a kid you get like commercial deals and they like, it just is so, so
dramatically ridiculous.
And then I don't know, there's a flash of the end -word on there and it's like a
whole other kind of wild wild class.
Which is like...
why martial sports exists as a thing.
It's like the gossip block for dudes.
Because we tell them, I don't know, but we tell them, that's what I want.
So anyways.
very strong argument.
Part of the reason why the Olympics feels different to me is it's a short period of
time.
If you want to commit to like a whole baseball season, a whole basketball
season, like for example, professional football, I could get behind short season.
is so like when your team does well, it's like you've been in the trenches.
Crickets.
take it under advisement.
We'll see how I feel after the Paris Olympics.
And also I should have said basketball is part of the summer Olympics also.
So yeah, there's just, it's, what I mean to say is there's a lot of crossover
between U .S.
professional athletes that people already love and adore who will now play in the
Olympics.
And who maybe if I fall in love with some of them, I'll begin to follow their sport
upon their.
Return to your seat.
Yeah, I mean, there's definitely people to like and root for 100%.
I just am dazzled by the fact that you guys have lived in Massachusetts your
entire lives where we have some of the most decorated professional sports teams
like in the history of these leagues and you're still like, well, okay,
First of all, I should say I grew up with a dad who watches every single sports game
that there is, including all the college games.
So I was around it my whole life.
My grandfather was obsessed with tennis.
I watched so much tennis from like birth until he passed when I was in my mid
twenties.
I think.
I just don't have like a.
the passion for those points of themselves or as I can have the best of my civil
rights and success in my objectivism under some kind of team state.
Make us a good model as a team that we can challenge.
professionals make the shots, but just like he understands what it takes to
complete a play like that or to set it up like that or the hustle it takes or the
speed of your running or the accuracy of your shot, whatever it is.
I have not an athletic bone in my body.
I played soccer and basketball and softball as a kid all the way until the
eighth grade.
I played all three sports.
I was
Horrendous when they would do like team superlatives at the end of the season when
we would like go to Papa Gino's I would always get most improved That was my
accolade.
I'm just not Into it in the way that I think true fans are where they really just
feel like mega invested in what happens and I also feel like you could fall in
love with the player and then they get traded and then it's like do you I
remember my cousin date was like devastated when Roger Clemens got traded
to the Yankees and There's just stuff like that.
I
was like a double blow like he was leaving and he was going to our sworn enemy.
Yes.
So I think.
like, creating a universe of people that you like want to follow and root for and
whatever, that's like Bravo to me.
That's my like, that's my universe.
It's really very competitive.
Yeah, it's a different kind of competitive, but yes.
All right, should we get into our book?
Okay.
So the book that we're doing is All My Rage, which I mentioned earlier.
And this book, I feel is pretty unique because it is a young adult book and it
won the Prince Award, which is like the Newberry slash Caldecott for young adult
books, teen books.
Other winners include like John Green, People of that Echelon.
John Coyle, the other people have a couple times.
So, it's like a really prestigious own work in WL here at Turf.
But then, I'm telling you that, it's a national book of work.
which means that they thought that this book was so good that they were like,
let's put it in the regular adult category also and give it that award as well.
And I haven't looked it up, but I don't know if there are any books.
I'm wondering, I don't think the Faulkner stars got both.
that it won, but I feel like it's comparable to...
fire keeper's daughter in that way where it can be relatable in both of those
lanes.
Totally.
Did that one win the prince?
I feel like it might have.
Molly, can you look that up?
So this book was assigned to me in a young adult or diversity and young adult
literature class that I took in February.
And basically we were given a list of books that we had to choose one from it to
read, but then everybody was required to read all my rage.
So this was like the one common read with everybody in the class.
And...
the teacher did not, teacher, professor, did not give us any information about the
book.
Like we were to have it read by the first meeting.
And then we like discussed it and talked about how we would use it in our
classrooms and like what age groups we think it fits with and what trigger
warnings we would have to talk about and so on and so forth.
And we also talked about it being a banned book and you know, all these other things
because it deals with a lot of serious issues.
so sorry to interrupt.
I just want to confirm that the Fire Keepers daughter did with the Prince
Award.
Alright, so that's the book you can try to look about.
So, this book...
I don't want this book to come up.
So, okay.
This book is about two teenagers.
So, let's take a look.
and they live in California.
They're, they both are children of immigrants.
And they have had this bond, this friendship that is pretty well established
when the book starts.
And then it becomes very clear that the new ones have feelings for staff, and kind
of become productive and show that they're not.
And so it kind of then, they're finally signing off.
on the rocks because they're on it.
communicating about mending the friendship from that happening.
you're also forgetting the third narrator.
There's three parts.
The mom.
yeah, well, I was getting to her.
So, Sal's mom is ill at the beginning of the book, and he is basically struggling
to keep their family business alive because his dad has drinking problems.
And so, Sal is like at the precipice of like, should be applying to college and
thinking about his future and instead...
He's got a dying mother and a dad that is like in complete denial and not being an
adult.
And he really needs to lean on his friend Noor, but she like had this feeling
explosion and now he doesn't really know how to like mend that.
And so there's just like a lot going on in Sal's life.
And eventually their friendship does get mended because she also has a difficult
family situation in which she wants to apply to college.
and she lives with her uncle, her cousin.
Yeah, it's her uncle.
She lives with her uncle, and she thinks that when she sees a doctor, and I don't
know if this is the right time to start.
the world.
Yes.
very full of himself.
And basically it's a situation where these two young Muslim kids are like trying to
deal with these adults who aren't being good adults and aren't supporting their
futures and are basically like, you should be as miserable as I am and like suck it
up and like the welcome to America, like kind of like.
like, bitterly come up with their life situations and instead of like, helping
their kids blossom, they're like shutting down in each way.
It's beautiful to read.
You will feel a lot of different feelings throughout the entire book.
As soon as I finished reading it, I was like, I was like, forced to read it into
stuff and I was like, I have to read this, I don't want to talk about it.
it's just one of those books where I'm like, everybody needs to read this because
it's like,
like, it's like all the things you think about in your dream and then like ugly,
uncanny, you don't know what that actual looks like when, when don't fully prove
who you are, you don't know how to dreamer the way that you are.
I think it should be high school required reading.
This would be a perfect one to open discussions.
I wanted to go back to the mom for a second because her narration is in the
past.
It's sort of back in Pakistan, how she got arranged with her soon to be husband, the
early days of engagement and marriage life.
And if you didn't have that, I feel like you would sort of be like, why the heck
did this relationship?
end up together because it seems so ill -suited.
But when you get that aspect, you kind of understand things a little bit better.
I also want to disclose that Caitlin saw me, I think I was three quarters of the
way through the book and she was like, how are you loving it?
And I was like, I effing hate this book because I was at a point where there were
no W's happening.
There was so much despair in the plot that was happening that I was like...
I'm not sure I can emotionally make it through this book.
I'm glad I pushed through.
It was worth it.
This happens to me a lot.
But it's hard to read this sort of book because you know that this is real life
for a lot of people out there.
And it's hard for me to stomach that.
So.
I have so much to say about this book.
I have written notes, so buckle up.
Molly took legit notes like on a piece of scratch paper.
our entire time of doing this podcast, I've never come here with handwritten
notes.
That's so serious, I feel about this.
Let me get by saying I gave this book five stars on Goodreads, which I'm like, I
reserve the five stars, like majorly.
I am.
I really am.
Also because, especially since we started this podcast, I'm now connected to more
people on Goodreads and I don't want to overhype something that doesn't deserve
it.
I gave this five stars like with no hesitation and I also like agonized over
what to write in my review because I was sure I couldn't encapsulate it.
First of all, I'm glad that you like pushed so hard for us to read this and
talk about it because if I had seen this book on a table in a bookstore, I would
not have picked it up for two reasons.
One, the title All My Rage makes me think it's going to be like an angry, intense
topic.
And I just feel like that's not the vibe I necessarily needed in my life right now.
And two, it probably would have been in the YA section, which I personally rarely
walk to.
And both of you have sort of like opened my eyes to kind of the magic and wonder of
YA.
And when I was in the middle of reading this, we were talking about it a few days
ago, I was saying I just couldn't believe the like breadth of topics that they cover
in this book that feel extremely adult to me.
And when we did our episode about graphic novels, similarly, I was like, my God,
there's like so many intense subject matter.
that gets covered in what seemed to be like fun illustrated cartoons.
I felt similarly about this to my list of notes.
The first thing is there are quotes from a poem that are sprinkled throughout this
book as the dividers between part one, part two, and so on.
The poem is called One Art by Elizabeth Bishop.
You might know it as the phrasing, The Art of Losing.
I recognize this poem immediately because it's part of In Her Shoes.
of the book.
How would that be studied in school?
It could be.
I'm sure you've heard of it in school.
It leaks into the inner -shoots of the story, how she sets out this quest for her
life, and the time.
You know, the story doesn't come out really.
She learns, and her rage is rejuvenated, and her rage is re -exposed at her
sister's wedding.
So I was like, wow, this is so interesting.
At this point, which I associate with
a kind of chiclet type of book, was part of this book, which is about such a
different topic.
The second thing is...
Noor, who Caitlin mentioned earlier, has had just a really hard and tragic life and
upbringing.
She was rescued from the rubble of an earthquake by this uncle who she lives
with.
Throughout the book, she repeats the story as it was told to her as a four -year -old
child about how she was rescued.
And it reminded me of this book, which is nonfiction, called The Body Keeps the
Score, about the way that people process trauma.
that
The first time I read the repetition of that phrasing in this book, I was like,
this must be a mistake.
Throughout the book, I think it gets retyped the same way, more than 10 times.
There's something about going through like a massively traumatic event that the
narrative of that sticks with you, whether you were the hero or the victim or
whatever.
I think that was one of the most honest parts of this book about kind of how that
impacts Nora's life.
Caitlin, go ahead.
and it came up in my class, or I brought it up in my class, it becomes like her
mantra.
Because a lot of times she's repeating it and saying it to herself when her uncle is
being a jerk.
And so she's like, Noor, get over yourself.
Like he saved you from this rubble.
He brought you to the United States.
You're safe.
You wouldn't be alive.
And like she reminds herself is this like mantra over and over again.
And like other things get unveiled like throughout the book about her life and her
upbringing.
know.
gosh, I just can't imagine feeling like you owe somebody like that.
Like, I can't imagine being indebted to somebody in that way.
And like, the more I thought about it, the more it like gave me a pit in my stomach
of like, I can't, he's terror, he's just, he stinks.
He's such a crummy role model.
And then she's like, but you owe him, you owe him big time.
Like, remember what happened?
Like, this is what happened to you.
of shit.
Totally.
And I mentioned this a couple episodes ago, how whenever I'm reading, I'm always
looking for the source of a title.
Where did it come from?
What is it inspired by?
Is there a passage in the book that relates to it?
I like audibly was like, aha, when I got to this page in this book.
So this is page 170 out of 374.
She says, what's the word for when someone drinks so much they're ruining your best
friend's life?
Or the word for a man so vengeful about his own past that he wants to destroy your
future?
What's the word for a woman who was sick for months but refused to go to the doctor
until it was too late?
The word for the girl at school whose personal mission is to mess with your
head.
Anger is not the right word.
Rage.
That's what this feeling is eating me up.
I loved that.
I just thought that was like so beautifully articulated.
I also wanted to call out the role music plays in this story.
It's obvious.
And then the author has a personal passion for music.
She wrote a book, and this is actually Robert's book, Personal Music.
I think she talked about how music can be healing in a way that makes you feel
proud.
And she talks about it in a bunch of different ways.
And I'm just like, yeah, of course.
She's super good.
I also like this book, Reminding You of a Dream, because there's a place for us,
which I talked about in the episode about the X -Dimension Scrap.
It's also a story about a new American who was once a communist journalist just three
years ago.
Both of these stories are about families who gave up everything in their home
country, came here to start over, are very othered in the communities in which they
live in.
The kids are trying to both be respectful of the old ways and also adapt to the new
ways in America.
If you have read All My Rage and you loved it, you also should read There's a Place
for Us.
It's fantastic.
And I would love to see those two authors like on a panel discussing kind of what
the immigrant experience is.
it.
about this as potentially required reading or something that should be taught, it
reminded me we kind of had a similar conversation about the undocumented
Americans.
That is, of course, like a written account of conversations with real life people.
But I felt the same way about All My Rage, where I was like, people need to read this
to understand what's really happening and to have this be part of a facilitated
discourse.
I obviously passed my copy to both of you first, but I so my parents are like late
60s early 70s and I just feel like they really do not have a good grasp on the
experience that young immigrant people are having in the United States and Like I'm
not saying like my gosh, my parents are conservative or anything They really are
not but they're like more moderate than I think they should be about some of these
things and I think it's just like straight -up lack of exposure and I
I think I think the news that they watch is like decent but like isn't it's just
like not enough they like need another angle and I think that because this book
is about kids it would really pack a punch for them because my parents really care
about kids and so I'm gonna pass along to them and make them read it.
I think the other
thing that makes this book.
really special is the...
not just the relationship between these two kids and what they're going through,
but the places where they work, I think, are really fascinating and really
resonated with me.
So Sal's family owns a motel.
And so they have kind of all different kinds of walks of life coming in and out
of this motel.
And that's what he's trying to save is like his family's business.
And then Noor's uncle owns a convenience store.
And so these are like, I would say kind of like stereotypical jobs that like new
immigrants would potentially have, especially in urban places.
And I was like, it's so interesting to me that it's like, this is what they're
doing.
This is what she chose to have them do in the story.
And then in the acknowledgments, the author, is it her family that owns the
motel?
good question let me do a quick little fact check
I read this a little while ago, but in the acknowledgement, she talks about how she
has a real life connection to like owning a motel.
She wrote to mama and daddy who clawed out a life from the dust of a barren place and
made it
So while Molly is looking for that, I just really liked those settings.
And also those are two places where you can have kids work and nobody is really
going to ask you very many questions.
It's not like a restaurant where inspectors come in all the time or
whatever.
It's a little more legit than that.
And also those are both things where it's like, yeah, of course the parents are
expecting you to just take that over.
parents.
There is a plan for you to take out your parents.
And like, then where's it going to go?
And what was all this for?
And you
found it.
No, it's in her author profile.
She grew up in California's Mojave Desert at her family's 18 -room motel.
So.
So it was her.
Also, I thought it was worth it for the listeners to hear what the trigger
warnings are, which are in the book.
Okay, so All My Rage contains the following content, drug and alcohol
addiction, physical abuse, Islamophobia, mentions of repressed sexual assault,
tense exchange with law enforcement, and death.
It's a lot.
It is.
It's a lot.
But it's not.
But it's done in a way that it's important to follow people on.
I think that's it.
It means a lot to me.
It's too much to take on.
It's necessary, especially for...
us white folks who are sheltered and privileged to...
to actually read it, sit with it, take it out and to be exposed to something beyond
our daily life.
Again, to my surprise, I do have a little bit of a problem with the astrology and
the metrics that I have because I'm not so much an MTA, but I know that they're
happening.
out there and children shouldn't be dealing with this sort of thing.
And again, yes, I was very upset three quarters of the way through because I
thought there were going to be no wins.
Push through it.
It is worth it.
And it has, I would say a satisfying ending, but it's not like it does, it
doesn't have a bow on it.
Like this author doesn't like jump the shark at the end and bail out on all the
tough stuff that she's been writing about.
Like she really does it right.
end that should happen to be organic to these characters' stories.
So you'll see on our Instagram, we have some photos of the book.
And I also brought a copy of one of her other books because she typically does
fantasy.
I know.
And so she has like a pretty, I think it's five books, the series.
And the first one is An Ember in the Ashes.
It has absurdly high ratings on Goodreads.
And we're talking like,
six digits for an eight -hour book year.
So like, it's a lot of the other books.
So she -
All My Rage was her first realistic fiction and then it blew up and she won 8
,000 awards.
I don't know if she'll go more that route now.
I don't really know.
Obviously, that was, I don't want to say semi -autobiographical, but a little bit
autobiographical.
wonder if she got in, if her hook for an agent was like fantasy because she knew
she could get that story published.
what do they want you to do?
Just kind of read this really carefully, you know?
I think that given how heavy the material is of all my rage, I'm sure that would
have been hard to like put into a query letter, back to what we were talking about
earlier.
And also, I'm sure that you're right.
She had to sort of prove her marketability before she could say like, no, I want to
write this really dark and depressing tale based on my real life experience.
I mean, it definitely has like it came out in 2015.
It definitely sounds a little bit like there's world building.
It kind of feels like a little fourth wing ish.
It says Leia is a slave.
Elias is a soldier.
Neither is free.
Under the martial empire defiance is met with death.
Leia and her family do not challenge the empire.
They've seen what happens to those who do.
But when Leia's brother is arrested for treason, she's forced to make a decision.
In exchange for help from rebels who promised to rescue her brother, she will
risk her life to spy for them from within the Empire's greatest military academy.
think I might have added this on my Goodreads.
Listen, if this is good, then I'm gonna get into all of those books.
us weekly called it a heart pounding fantasy.
The Atlanta Journal said, this epic fantasy set in the martial empire has it
all danger and violence secrets and lies strong characters and forbidden romance.
I mean, it sounds like we will like it, I think.
along those lines.
What am I reading right now?
I mean, I'll be reading this for a while because it's, I think it's like 600
something.
Sorry, 751 pages.
Okay.
I'm not going to talk about this book because this is the fifth book in the
series.
And I can't talk about it without.
read four?
And you read Glass Throne or whatever that was called?
Throne of Glass?
Yeah, I know, but I'm saying you've read five Sarah Moss books?
this will be my sixth.
Yeah.
No.
I love that you're like, I'm six books deep, but like, I'm not that into her.
I'm not gonna but I tried the other series and and I'm not into it which
Okay, the other one had no sauce because it was more YA and I'm in a mental space
where I'm so stressed that I need the sauce.
I need the hot fudge on top of the scoop of ice cream is what I'm saying and the
Siri Sassage.
The book I'm reading used the phrase good girl and I almost texted you about it.
More on that in a minute.
So I'm not going to talk about this book because I can't do it without giving away
the first four books.
But I will say, and I've probably talked about Akatar before, Akatar is a
reimagining.
I don't know if she did it on purpose, but I was like 20 pages in and was like, this
feels like Beauty and the Beast is happening.
It is Beauty and the Beast basically.
If instead of the beast, he was a fairy.
The serious part is that I actually found a couple of videos that were not.
not gonna try to pronounce anyone's names because it's not gonna be good for me.
I think it's like Farah is her name, but I'm not gonna talk about anyone else.
She lives with her father and her two horrible sisters in the woods and they're
impoverished and she is, you know, hunting for their food, you know, so that they
don't starve.
And anyways,
In the beginning of Akatar, she kills a being that turns out to be a fairy in
disguise.
And so the fairy king comes to her father and is basically like, I kill you now.
Or she comes to live with me as like penance for killing my friend type thing.
So she goes to the fairy realm.
If anyone is listening and they love the series, they're gonna be so mad at me for
boiling it down like this.
But basically she goes to live in this fairy realm.
Tamlin is the guy who's like the head of this.
came down.
I really need to encourage you so that you're open to it, so you can see that.
And I love her.
I love her.
I'm going to be showing her some exercise.
because she's just like a frail human.
And I've had wine, so that's why I'm...
Anyways, yes, I'm on the fifth book.
So obviously, obviously I didn't hate it.
So here we are.
if anyone would like to read A Throne of Glass, which Stephanie was happy to part
with, it is in my little free library in Hull, Massachusetts.
And as of Sunday night, it has not been taken, so you can walk on by and get a
copy for free.
Have books been taken?
Yes.
not only have books been taken, which was a thrill on its own, people have also
added books.
Ooh!
couple more to give you.
But I double backed for the wine and forgot the other book.
So this would be such a goddamn thrill for me.
I would be living for it.
Like,
I thought you were gonna just leave it at this, this could be pretty human -ish.
really hope it could be.
I hope that too.
I like that.
do you put Plans R Booked bookmarks in each book?
I haven't yet because I got the little free library all set up and then I
probably went away for two weeks.
And I was like, you know what?
I want to do this with like, I'm around.
And if people want to be like, my God, what is this bookmark?
I could actually talk to them about it.
But yes, I do plan to put them in the books starting this weekend.
Or it could just have like a little cup inside that's like, feel free to take a
bookmark, you know?
totally.
I know I was like, what other blades are about branding?
Could I put in this little thing?
I'm gonna think of -
yes, I can go next about what I'm reading now.
I'm reading The Summer Will Be Different by Carly Fortune.
I am the final of our trio to read this.
Caitlyn and Steph have already finished.
We will discuss it in a future episode.
I loved Carly Fortune's first book every summer after.
I recommended it to so many people.
I just love her summertime childhood romance.
I just do.
I was.
I read that at your whole house, Fourth of July weekend two summers ago.
Is that when it came out?
Yeah, that was I think that's right.
Yeah.
Yes.
Then I read Meet Me at the Lake, her second book, which I did not love as much.
However, she admitted in the acknowledgments that there were many
drafts of that book and that it was kind of like many authors talk about the curse
of the second book.
And she was very open about the fact that it was kind of a challenge.
Anyway, we're at this number will be different.
I'm not going to share too, too much because we're going to do a deep dive on
it.
But 50 pages.
really is getting to the sort of, I mean, I mean, I mean, I'm sure.
with one of the characters.
The sh - I mean you don't eat meat, but like the shucking of oysters didn't like
do it for you?
paperback in his back jean pocket?
I haven't gotten to the paperback in his macjean pocket, but I think because
oysters, you guys love oysters, both of you.
I feel like that part of it just like didn't speak to me as much.
like the forearms, like, no.
Stephanie is making the oyster shocking motion.
I know you guys can't see that, but that's what she was just miming to me.
not yet, but also there's a point where the main character is describing her best
friend Bridget and she's describing her childhood bedroom in this summer home.
And she talks about how there's a team Jacob tote bag over the door.
And I was like, I think I'm going to like this gal as I like learn more about this
character.
So I'm very excited to read.
I'm excited for us to deep dive on it.
A few people said DMs because this book wasn't a picture we shared with last
week's episode of the books that we were currently reading.
And many people said to me, are you guys going to do a dedicated summer reading
episode?
So perhaps we will.
books about that take place during summer or books that you should read during the
summer or both?
I think the implication was books you should read during the summer.
But we'll think about whether or not that should be standalone or we could combo it
with a Carly Fortune conversation.
But anyway, I was really excited that our listeners and our IG friends were also
starting to get in the spirit of summer reading.
Just a quick question before I get into the book that I'm reading right now.
Do you prefer a book, do you, how do I wanna phrase this?
If you had to choose, would you pick a wintery holiday book to read during the
winter or is reading a book, like a beach book during the summer more enjoyable for
you?
Like obviously a season.
reading in the season is like a cost of development.
Which one is like more...
gonna have the opposite answer.
But is that because you secretly just like love Christmas?
that's what I was just going to say.
I love Christmas.
If this is your first time ever listening to Plains or Boked, I grew up in a very
observant Jewish family.
And when my parents moved to Florida, my Christmas inner demon was unleashed.
I love Christmas.
I love all stories that are set around that time of year.
I mean, I love both.
But if I could only pick one, I would probably double down on, like, hot cocoa
and Christmas.
of my best friends from high school is also from a very observant Jewish family
and her mom was like the first Jewish person I met that like admitted how much
she loved Christmas and she collected albums like vinyl records of Christmas
music.
Her favorite one was Judy Garland.
She had an extensive collection and I thought it was when I was like 16 I
thought it was just about the funniest thing I had ever heard.
also very well documented that some of the best Christmas songs are written by Jewish
people.
So that's just like a hilarious fact that is true about things that are constantly
rejoiced upon during that time of year.
I'm gonna send it to you if you haven't seen it, but have you seen the claymation
video called Christmas Time for the Jews that was on Saturday Night Live?
Yeah, I, have you seen it Steph?
I'll send it to you.
It's a hilarious like supreme style 1960s doo -wop song about like all the things
that Jewish people get to do like during Christmas time that they wouldn't.
normally get to do and it's hilarious.
good.
What are you reading?
All right, I am reading a book.
This is a little bit of a departure for me, I feel like this is not a typical
Caitlin pick.
And I don't, I was saying to Molly earlier, I don't remember what book it was
on Amazon that it was like, you might also like this one.
And then I like added it to my list.
And then I like, I forget when I bought it, it might've been independent bookstore
day, I forgot.
But it's called The Hunting Wives by May Cobb.
in.
So, okay, I'm at 60 pages left.
It is an outpouring.
who was kind of a...
She lived all over the place growing up, but she had this one favorite town that
she actually got to do her last two years of high school in, and it was Mapleton,
Texas.
She and her husband are living in Chicago.
She works for a lifestyle magazine and has a really cool job.
They have a kid.
She decides to be a stay at home mom.
Her husband's an architect.
He gets a job that they can move to Mapleton, Texas.
She quickly is like, I'm going to blog and I'm going to take photos of everything I
do and I'm going to be one of those insta moms.
And she's like, this is a grind.
I'm terrible at this.
And like,
she starts getting like very invested with these like uppity women in her community
and she like wants to be a part of their friend group.
You know from the second page of the book that they happen upon a dead body.
So that's like given away at the beginning, you don't know whose body it
is.
And then it backtracks to her becoming obsessive with these like society women
from her town.
And it's called the hunting wives because she goes to this like gala.
and gets invited to do this Friday night shooting club, where they go to one of the
women's lake houses and they just shoot guns to like blow off steam.
And it's during one of these shooting sessions that they find a body.
Did they shoot this person by accident?
Don't know that.
Do they suspect one another?
Don't know that either.
Who is the person that's dead?
don't, I would have to say, I would have to say, but it's very, they are very
desperate and they report at first, or they're kind of like, my god, they're
trying to set me up, they're like, don't have any better idea.
But now I'm trying to tell them, it's just like, we go streambugs for months, and
they just like, they throw a little bit of prejudice into it, and it's about the
truth.
Also that cover is just beautiful.
it's bright blue and then it has an array of lipsticks and bullets.
it's very well done.
I feel like that would like leap off of a table in a bookstore.
You would just notice that one.
superior suspense cocktail is the tagline.
I don't know.
I was, I was wooed.
the Gen Z kids say, say less.
If you guys want to follow along with everything that we're reading, all the
books that we talked about, you can give us a follow on Instagram at Plans Are
Booked.
If you have a book you'd like us to read and chat about or just other ideas for the
pod, we love, love, love hearing from you.
So please write to us at plansarebooked at gmail .com.
And until next time, our plans are booked.