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Peter serves as the Executive Director at the Christian Association of Youth Mentoring. He has been in the mentoring field since 1981 working with juvenile offenders and children in the Child Protective Service system in New York. He moved to Massachusetts in 1997 where he helped Straight Ahead Ministries develop a national training program. He has been with CAYM since its founding in 2005.
Show Notes
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WELCOME
You Can Mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others.
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SHOW NOTES
- Christian Association of Youth Mentoring: https://www.caym.org/
- Contact Peter Vanacore: Peter@caym.org
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. My name is Steven, and I'm here with a very special guest, Peter Vanacore. Peter, how the heck are you?
Speaker 3:Doing real well, Steven. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm good other than the fact that you said you went on a run this morning, and I did not. So I'm feeling a little shame, but, that's okay. I have a 2 month old baby. Okay, Peter? You can't expect that much of me.
Speaker 3:I I agree. I you know, that's an excuse for a lot of things. Just the fact that you're awake in the morning is good. So
Speaker 2:I'm in survival mode. I'm in queso mode. I'm not I'm not thinking about my physical health right now. Peter, I'm so excited to have you on the call. For our listeners who don't know anything about you, Peter serves as the executive director at the Christian Association of Youth Mentoring.
Speaker 2:He's been in the mentoring field since the early eighties working with juvenile offenders and children in the child protective service system in New York. He moved to Massachusetts in 97, where he helped an organization straight ahead ministries, and he helped them develop a national training program. He has since been with CAYM since its founding in 2005 and now serves as the executive director. I've known Peter through our monthly think tank that we've participated in, for Christian youth mentoring leaders. And so if you'd like more information about how to get involved in that, if you're a mentoring organization leader, reach out to us.
Speaker 2:Let us know. Well, I'm excited to interview Peter today. We have a bunch of questions talking about volunteers, men and women in the church, what keeps Christians from mentoring. We're gonna talk about solutions for racial reconciliation and how to keep mentors active and engaged. But before we jump into all those questions, I just want you to get to know Peter a little more.
Speaker 2:So, Peter, who is Peter Vanacore?
Speaker 3:Oh, boy. Well, right now, I am an official senior citizen. So Woah. Yes, I am. And so, I've been married for 40 years.
Speaker 3:I have, 3 wonderful kids, a grandson, and as you said, I've been in ministry with, youth since I graduated college. And, I've been in the mentoring field since 'eighty 1. And I've spent a lot of my time in training and developing materials and programs has been a lot of my concentration, especially in the last 15 years with the Christian Association of Youth Mentor.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's great. Now as a senior citizen, what's what's the primary perk that comes with that that that you're experiencing? Is it the Luann platter at Luby's, or is it is it something else?
Speaker 3:Well, right now, during the coronavirus, it's that, they open the stores an hour early for senior citizens. You don't have to wait online. So that's the big thing.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. I love it. And you said you've been married for 40 years, and so and so tell tell us about your family. Just what what does that look like right now? Where are you guys at?
Speaker 2:And anything about your family that will help our listeners?
Speaker 3:You know, I, my wife is is a wonderful woman who has just been, you know, a gift of God to me. And I I certainly would not be who I am today without her. And she has been a great mother, wife. She has actually is going to retire, in 2 weeks, not actually of her own will, kind of kind of pushed into this, or offered early retirement, I guess, an offer you can't refuse type thing. But, she's just, been a great employee and everything in her life.
Speaker 3:And I have 3 kids who are really hardworking, dedicated, good people all the way around. I I really they put me to shame in their ability to really kind of, excel in school, and, and afterwards in in their careers. So
Speaker 2:It's awesome. Well, I'm excited to to talk more about Christian Association of Youth Mentoring. And so I wonder if you could share the mission of your organization.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Our mission is we train and support churches and ministries in developing, safe, effective, and sustainable mentoring programs. And those are our 3 big words in everything. It's gotta be safe, effective, and sustainable. It's safe when you follow best practices.
Speaker 3:It's effective when you do those best practices with a focus in your ministry, when you have a strategy, you have values, you have a plan to move forward, in that, in a very, I'll just say strategic way, a strategic manner. And then as sustainable is that you have a board that's managing it, whether that's your church board or your nonprofit board, and you have the funding to go along with that. And so I think a bigger thing is our vision. It's our vision is to strengthen communities by connecting generations. And or another way to put that is, is that we are looking to strengthen churches by helping them more deeply connect to their communities.
Speaker 3:So that that's who we are.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love it, Peter. Safe, effective, sustainable, and so you you help churches and nonprofits implement those strategies into their organizations, and I I just love that vision to strengthen communities by connecting generations. I mean, that's that's a that's a powerful vision. Why, Peter, have you spent your life equipping churches and communities to mentor kids?
Speaker 2:Why why has that been a focus of your life?
Speaker 3:The first thing is that I needed a mentor when I was growing up. Although I had 2 loving parents, I managed to screw my life up. By the time I was 21, if I did not become a Christian, I probably would not be alive. Now, I would have done myself in one way or another. And I and I really I was mentored by a guy in college, a campus ministry guy named Kirk Johnson.
Speaker 3:And I don't know why he was from Iowa, a farm in Iowa. I, I was from New York, from Long Island. I went to high school in Brooklyn back when Brooklyn was Brooklyn and not a hipster paradise. And so it was, you know, and I, but somehow God connected us and it just showed me a lot of different things. And so I needed that, you know, that to move my life along.
Speaker 3:But I think when I came back to New York after college, I asked my pastor to mentor me. And he started off, he said, then you really need to study the scripture. And he started me in actually the Old Testament and the prophets. And it struck me, well, the one thing was the the need for holiness, and the other was how easy it was to fall away from God. But I think the thing that really motivated me was I saw God's heart for the poor, for the orphan, for the widow.
Speaker 3:And I I read Isaiah 58, and, it's really changed my life. It was probably the most motivating passage for me in scripture, and it's been that way for 40 something years. And what it did for me, it just said that you don't concentrate on just doing religious things. And there's a phrase in there that just spend yourself on behalf of the needy. And I thought, boy, we all have spending plans, budgets, but what does it mean to spend yourself?
Speaker 3:And what does God want us to do? To spend ourselves on behalf of the needy? To care for the alien and the alienated? And then it talks about that we become repairer of broken walls or restorer of streets with dwellings. And that 2 things, when I saw the broken walls, I think of families, and how families are in in desperate shape in a lot of communities.
Speaker 3:And there are in every community, these families are desperate. And then the restorer of streets with dwellings, and that is the strengthening of communities as we come in.
Speaker 2:I love that. And, I feel like I just interviewed someone that they'd named their organization after Isaiah 58 because that was just a a foundational passage for what they felt like the Lord was calling them to and and yeah. I mean, it's it's a huge passage. So I highly recommend all of our listeners to to check out that passage if it's if it's been the impetus for 2 people that I've interviewed to start their organizations. I I feel like we should probably read it.
Speaker 2:So and and that's the one that's like, this is not the fast that I choose, and and and god god asked people not to just fast from food and do these religious acts, but actually, like what you just said, spend their lives on the needy. I I love that. So good. Well, Peter, I mean, you've had a wealth of experience mentoring kids from that faith perspective of just building relationships with kids from hard places and so I'd love if you could share some testimonies from that experience. Could you share any stories that would inspire people to start mentoring as you've responded to that word, to spin yourself on behalf of the needy?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I went to a wedding. My wife and I went to a wedding probably, now 10 years ago, a little more than that. It was a wedding of a of a kid that was in our mentoring program. The mother of this this guy who was who's in a lot of trouble, he's 12 years old, and this is 17 years later.
Speaker 3:She saw me and she came up and she hugged me, gave me this big hug, and said, this all started when you brought Andrew into his life 17 years ago. She remembered the whole thing, and she said that that changed not just her son, but it changed her life too. It it was, it was a beautiful day that she'd be married to this wonderful Christian girl. They now have a a family. They're in a church.
Speaker 3:She's a leader, and he's, successful in his work when he was really headed for deep trouble back then. You know, the day I went to to interview him in his home, he was he wasn't there because he was in court. And so, at 12 years old. And so but what I what I saw there was was a lot because my wife said, you know, why don't you just go to the wedding? You know him, and and I don't really know him all that well.
Speaker 3:And she goes, I just don't wanna be around people we don't you know, for a whole day. I won't know anybody. And when we got there, we realized we knew probably half the people at the wedding. And one of the keys in mentoring is that the mentor can help the youth build social capital. And that is the people around you that help you advance in life.
Speaker 3:And so his mentor took him to church. He became part of the church. And then that connected him to a wealth of people. So I had left the community quite a bit before that, so I didn't realize all the connections he had. But he had this, we knew literally half the people at at at the at the wedding, all because this mentor came into his life and introduced him to people who, one woman came up to me and said, oh yeah, he's like a son to me right now.
Speaker 3:To me, that was the most beautiful thing. It was the Christian community surrounding this one kid because one mentor came into his life. And not only that, his mom became a Christian, his grandmother became a Christian, they were all part of a church. And that church was strengthened through that, that community was strengthened through that. It was, that was great, a great story.
Speaker 3:I tell you, on on another one inspiring one is to go back to my wife, and she has been mentoring the same girl for 8 years. And she just graduated college cum laude. And my my wife is, you know, she there's no graduation ceremonies, but my my wife, friend works at the college and actually employed her at the college. And so that's that social capital connection. But the this this woman called up, my wife, Diane, and said, look, you know, your girl, she she just graduated cum laude.
Speaker 3:So my wife calls up on the phone because you graduated cum laude. And she goes, what's cum laude? She had no idea. And so, you know, what does that mean? And, and, and it's, and so when this girl, when they met before she was in 8th grade or, well, at the end of 8th grade actually, And, you know, she, her, her mom had abandoned the family, her father was about to be deported, and her family really, the extended family, you know, they, they just, they saw her more as a worker for their restaurant that they had, And they didn't want her to go to college.
Speaker 3:My wife took her on the college tour. My wife is the one who went through all the, the, the the advisor appointments at the high school. And now you you you just see what's happened because of that. This girl has been able to kind of blossom into someone who is confident and can move forward in life. But, but I will tell you this, that that girl, after 8 years of mentoring, and she is part of our family really right now, is she has not come to the Lord.
Speaker 3:You know, she has not made a a profession of faith. We are still working on that. And mentoring doesn't it doesn't guarantee anything on any level that the kid is going to going to do well. I've had kids who did not do well that I that I've met. I've gone with kids who've done great, but it still is is what God has called us to do.
Speaker 2:That's so good, Peter. I I'm kind of picking up on just in the 2 stories that you just shared that, I think is profound is that there's this ecosystem that's created from a mentoring relationship. And so there's these people at the wedding that they're connected to who now feel connected to these relationships just because of this mentor relationship. Yes. And there's also family dynamics that are are probably more delicate, but the family is connected in some way to the mentor relationship.
Speaker 2:And I I I think just in in your your vision of strengthening and connecting communities, like, mentor relationships become this connecting place not only for the mentor relationship, but for the community around them.
Speaker 3:That is an essential factor in men in mentoring. I keep bringing this up with that social capital that kids can gain those other relationships that help them move forward in life and actually can help the whole family move forward. That is is what a mentor can bring in just by becoming a friend to to to a kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Peter, mentor relationships don't happen unless a mentor believes that they can mentor, and that's why we named our podcast You Can Mentor. And so I wanna ask you, once we envision, someone to believe that they can mentor, how do you how do you keep them active and engaged, once they start a mentor relationship?
Speaker 3:Well, it it all comes down back down to the best practices, what I talked about in the beginning, that safe and effective part of it. It starts with really, thorough screening. But a screening, it's not it's not you're not trying to find out all the problems in someone. You're trying to find out why this person could be a really good mentor. But it's starting at that.
Speaker 3:It's continuing with training that is targeted and thorough and motivating. Everything has to be motivating. And then once they're matched, it is about supervision or what we call coaching, And that is really the most important factor in, in keeping a relationship moving forward so that it is effective, that it is safe. When we think of safety in mentoring, everyone thinks of, oh, it's the pedophile, right? It's the guy who's gonna come in and really hurt that kid some way physically, sexually, and maybe emotionally.
Speaker 3:But what comes through is the biggest risk in mentoring is when an adult says to a kid who is a kid who's usually been, let down by adults often in in his or her life, and then all of a sudden, you know, they they commit to this relationship, the kid gets excited, I have this, they learn maybe to trust, and then the mentor drops out. That is, unfortunately, it's another wound in an already fragile soul. And so the biggest risk in mentoring is a mentor dropping out. It's better that you don't, run your program if you have a high rate of dropouts. And so coaches come in and what they do, first of all, is they provide encouragement, and that is the number one need in for mentors.
Speaker 3:You keep them encouraged because mentors don't usually see what's happening in the kid's life. And the coach is calling not just the mentor, but calling the the child and calling the the the parent, and they find out what's going on. And so I've had mentors many times just shocked to hear what the kid says about the mentor. Because the kid doesn't tell the mentor, you know? And and they're not they're not sitting there going, oh, boy, that was great.
Speaker 3:No. But they go home and it it's different. And, the mother can explain things. But it also can point out when maybe there's problems going, because there's there's often these problems that need to be corrected. And so the mentor the coach can help the mentor guide them through that by just talking to the parents.
Speaker 3:But all of that is encouraging for for the mentor. But along with that, it's they need ideas. They need, what can I do? Where can I go? How can I help this kid along?
Speaker 3:And the programs need to really find out what is free in their community. And there isn't enough that's free, then you gotta talk businesses into making it free for people. And so it's, you know, we've I've seen, health clubs, you know, Y's give free memberships when a mentor and kid come together to work out at a gym. Museums opening up, concerts doing things for for things. We've had sportsmen's clubs train kids on, and take mentors on fishing, and hunting.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of different things that, that can be done. It's interesting though, but, I had a program we worked with in upstate New York. They found out that when they when the mentors were told that this, this sporting goods company was going to provide all these different activities, it was as motivating for the mentor as it was for the kid. The fishing, the the the, hunting, they they were really as excited because a lot of them didn't know how to do it themselves. So they were learning how to to to fish alongside them, how to fly, fish these kids.
Speaker 3:So to me, that was just great. You gotta you gotta give them something to do together. But I think the last thing is also accountability. And we all need something, someone to hold us accountable. Now that may be something that the relationship isn't going really well, or maybe the mentor's struggling at home or at work and life in general.
Speaker 3:And so they just need the the coach to kinda help them along, maybe guide them, lead them to someone else. The coach doesn't become a therapist, but maybe they can guide them into the right right person or or prospect or pastor that can help them along. But that's how you keep mentors relationships going.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a lot of stuff, but I I think that thinking about a mentor relationship, if we want to see not just fruitfulness, but we wanna be faithful to what God's called us to, I think all of those things are very important. I wonder if you would you would, if you've seen one of those that mentor mentor organizations do well or do less effectively. I don't know if you have any thoughts on which which of those areas that mentoring organizations need help most.
Speaker 3:You know, I I wanna take it a step back. Where the problems come in often is they really haven't thought through the design of their program to begin with. And and that is, what is their focus? What are the parameters of their mentoring? How are they gonna recruit?
Speaker 3:Where are they gonna recruit? It it's really it's building that foundation from the start. It's all in the design and then the strategic plan. A lot of programs I talk to have never gone out into the community and asked kids, families, school administrators, what are the strengths and what are the needs in their community? And and so you start there and then you work your way and build your program around those factors.
Speaker 3:And but when it comes down when you got all that down, the toughest thing, back to your original question, is coaching. Coaching is long term. It's it's it's, steady work. You need someone who's really committed to making those contacts. But we've seen, churches where volunteers do this as effectively as as full time staff.
Speaker 3:And often, it's because they see these people on Sunday morning, and they can talk about it, you know, and it's a regular contact with with the mentors. There's encouragement. And then the other factor is when that happens, the church feels ownership. So the church itself is encouraging these people to continue in in in the path God's given them with becoming a mentor.
Speaker 2:I mean and you kinda hit just hit to that that community is is integral for the health of a mentoring organization and so that's why the church is kind of probably set up to be more effective because it's all about relationships and it's all about the community and and so mentoring in the church, like, seem like the perfect match.
Speaker 3:You are right on target as usual even so.
Speaker 2:In my experience, I don't know many churches that are doing that are are leading a, a mentoring organization or leading mentoring kids in the community. It's mostly mentoring the kids that are in our youth group or, kids that are already in current families. And so how do you encourage a church to start moving toward a culture of mentoring in the community?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, that that is a tough question.
Speaker 2:Sorry.
Speaker 3:No. I no. It it it's it's it's it's probably, it starts off, it's that churches now, have to move past the fact that Sunday morning is not what church is about. Now we come together on Sunday morning, but it's just to, get us to focus on God and prepare us, to follow God's calling throughout the week. And so too often, churches and and pastors, it's they measure the success by the bs and bs, and that is bs and bs are buts and bucks.
Speaker 3:It's how many people are in the pew and how much money is coming in. And now every church needs butts and bucks. Right? So that's there's the reality to that. But if it comes down to what I'm I'm just trying to attract people in to get them in there, to sit down and be there and give their money, that's not church.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. That
Speaker 3:that's, you know, that's that's a club. I mean, when it comes down to it, I I hate to be that blunt about it, but I guess It's
Speaker 2:not a very good club.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I I guess I guess I could lose money. Right? But it's but people feel good about it. They come to church.
Speaker 3:It's it's you know, they they have this great worship. They join in. That's that's wonderful. We want that. That's what we don't want.
Speaker 3:But what happens when they leave that and take that church out into the community? That's what's essential. And mentoring enables a church to go and do that. And so but you have to get past that mindset. And so I find younger pastors right now are are are, motivating older people like me towards this because they come in and they see things as more of a community.
Speaker 3:And they they want to impact their community, as much as for for the Lord as for as as just to build that congregation, which they wanna do too, is build their congregation. You know, I I don't know how much time we got here, but I one of the things that that, that hit me, was years ago I was in a church and, I was at a meeting, a leadership meeting, and, and, the pastor and a couple people proclaimed that they wanted to be the, to the upper middle class. And I was just appalled. And I, I was, I, I, I protested and, but, and I, and then I, I got, I actually got depressed afterwards. I just I've just thought, what what's going on here?
Speaker 3:And I I spent the next 6 months. All I did was read the parable of the sheep and the goats, from Matthew 25. And I and I thought to myself, this is a heaven and hell passage. You know, you do this, you go to heaven, you don't do it, you go to hell. I mean, that that's about it, but we we never use that for, you never see that in an evangelistic sermon.
Speaker 3:That's for sure. And and it because it it doesn't fit our, you know, what what's true, our theology of it's we're saved by by faith alone, by grace through faith. And it's, but what it does show is that those who really truly have faith, it comes through in how we live and how we and and how we treat others. And Matthew 25 just speaks to that. You don't have to take it word for word literally that you have to go into prison or or do that, but it's how you are impacting those around you who need the the love, the care, the power of God in their lives.
Speaker 3:One thing we have to pray is for our churches to move out of that mindset, and move out of that Bs and Bs mindset and see what they can do to impact their community. That didn't give you a practical answer yet, not to your question, but here it is. In every church, there are people who are highly motivated to reach out into the community and impact those around them. And you need to find the champion or champions in a church, and then work with them to bring about, your the church the church board and pastors towards this vision. Now I would have said that I have been in quite a few churches where the pastor was the champion, you know, where they caught the vision, or one of the pastors was a champion and moved moved it along.
Speaker 3:I just got a a call about a month ago from a church in, probably the wealthiest town in in the United States. Okay? May or certainly one of them. It goes in and out. And, this church, they get it.
Speaker 3:They they want they wanna bring mentoring in, because of oh, they're they're in this rich enclave. They have a lot of needs outside of that enclave, but also inside that conflict. Just because you're rich doesn't mean you don't you're not screwing things up. And so they are, I just, it was just great to see, to be on a phone with a pastor who, although they got the Bs and Bs, they're looking to say, how are we going to impact our community? How are we gonna get people out of the pew and into the lives of kids and families?
Speaker 3:So, here are a couple other thoughts too though. Transformation occurs through relationships. What we want is discipleship. And mentoring, you know, a lot of my work has been with, kids who are in trouble, families who are in trouble. It's needed right in the church.
Speaker 3:And so when we talk to churches and or we a lot of times we work with a nonprofit to help them work through churches, change kind of the paradigm so that you're really having true partnerships with churches. What what we see is that they have kids in their church that need mentors too, that are, just as needy, inside as the kids that that that we we focus on often. And if they're made maybe they're not in the church, but maybe their mom goes to church and the mom is worried, the grandmother goes to church and worried about the grandchildren. You see this all over. And so that is one of the things that we that we look at and say, how can we reach kids, not only in the community, but kids in the church that really need that kind of help?
Speaker 3:We call that in church mentoring, we call it Godfriending because it's sometimes mentoring scares parents off or grandparents off. But say, oh, they're just gonna have a Godfriend. Someone's gonna come alongside them. What mentoring does in this, in that way, it helps kids stay in church. You know, Cara Powell, who does research on this, at Fuller University, She says that what keeps kids in church is intergenerational relationships and intergenerational ministry.
Speaker 3:Kids who want to stay connected to the Lord have connections beyond their parents, and beyond leaders of youth group and have a broad connection across generations in into their church.
Speaker 2:Woah. That's huge. Connections beyond their parents and youth leaders.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And there's a danger when a kid's commitment to church is through youth group only. Because once that youth group is gone, they don't have any reason to be there.
Speaker 2:What's your how are you gonna stick?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And too often, we've we've created I have in in in you're in Dallas, and I once went to a meeting, a church, big megachurch, asked me to come and meet with the Hispanic congregation in that church, who's trying to, to move forward. And I remember driving to this church and on on on the interstate there, and on the left side was the youth building, which was an old, old, movie theater. On the right side was this megachurch down about a half mile away. And I remember asking the Hispanic leaders.
Speaker 3:Now, I went into the meeting with the leadership. Let me tell you this. The leadership in this, there were about 30 of them, and they ranged in age from 15 to 85. Okay? And I said, do your kids come over to that youth, building?
Speaker 3:Is that where they do their youth? And they looked at me aghast and said, we would never send our kids over there. We want our kids right with us. And you can see it how they took their leadership. They want they were developing leaders from teenagers on.
Speaker 3:And and to me, that we just there's a danger in the the way we've been doing youth ministry often. Now I think a lot of people recognize it now that we need to connect kids intergenerationally to help them grow and stay in their faith long term.
Speaker 2:That's so good, Peter. My church has been working through that because our youth our our children's pastor, she mentioned, I think, a similar statistic of kids are much more likely to stay engaged in the life of the church, once they become adults if they're connected to this the adult service. But if you put them in this other room and you only allow them to interact with people their own age, once they once once the youth group ends, they have no connection to the rest of the community. So I just think I think that's huge and I think that should tell us something about our mentor relationships and how really mentoring is connecting kids to another generation in a in a way that is contrary or countercultural to the way that usually we do church.
Speaker 3:So yeah. Recently, I've, it was a couple years ago now. I was asked to do a lead a missions trip and, and help with this men's retreat connected to this missions trip. And I said, yeah. Well, I I will do that as long as all the teenage boys are allowed to come.
Speaker 3:And that just put a wrench in things for people. I mean, I'm like, you know, I guess because I'm just what I've been doing, but it just that was just natural to me. I mean, of course you're gonna do this. But, you know, that's the kind of thing that that we need we need to to do. And, you know, they saw that as you bring kids, it's it's work.
Speaker 3:It's not this fun with a bunch of guys. It's you got this work of these kids, where I saw it as, well, this is this is an investment, for for us for all of us, and it's a joy when when when when you can engage kids like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well and I I think that connects to that same level of of what you're saying that we start to view Sunday morning as church when in reality it's a it's a moment of preparation, but it's also a moment of connecting our kids to the next generation That's correct. Yeah. Other generations. And so you could actually view it as your strategy to connect your kids to other relationships.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And you could you could view church in a completely different light as a parent. You're like, I'm connecting my kids to other parents and other adults and I'm setting them them up to be the next leaders of the church if they stay connected. I have a follow-up question for you, Peter.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:Something that I I hear a lot are churches, they're either creating programs for every single thing like so you have a anti sex trafficking program, you have a basket weaving program, you have a baking muffins program, you have a mentoring program, you have I mean, just all these different things related to whatever your your spiritual gift is. So if you have the gift of hospitality, I'm gonna go bake muffins. If you have the gift of mercy, I'm gonna go mentor. So you have those kind of churches. Then you have other churches that are like, we don't want any programs.
Speaker 2:We just want you to get involved in the community and go join the homeless ministry, join the mentoring organization, but we're not gonna lead it, Mike. We just want you to to do it in the community. I I wanna hear your thoughts on on both of those things. Is mentoring just another program for a church to start?
Speaker 3:Mentoring is God's natural design for human development. Prior to, industrialization, a 150 years ago, mentoring was just a natural course of life. You if you more likely than than not, you grew up in an extended family where you had, grandparents, uncles, aunts, who mentored you in natural settings. When you went to, look for for work in your life, you either studied, or you learned to farm under your dad or your uncle or your grandparents. You you learned, you apprenticed under a blacksmith or a carpenter, but it was always about mentoring.
Speaker 3:This was this mentoring process that comes through a natural way. But now our our societies are, fragmented and strained, And so those natural connections don't happen very easily. And so in the church, it's the we've we we don't we don't have those same connections that we once had naturally. And so what we have to do is, in some way, make mentoring, not just a program here on the side, but part of the whole church process. So we actually train programs with their they mentor they're mentoring 20 somethings.
Speaker 3:They have, met and, and we do, one thing that we would do is have this tri generational mentoring, where an older adult like me mentors a 25 year old, and, that 25 year old's mentoring the 14 year old. Because it has to all be connected in one way or another. We have to see all our relationships that are are are in that church as some sort of mentoring process. But again, even in that, Stephen, you need to apply best practices. You need to be doing those the, you know, how to learn how to recruit, screen, train, supervise, and evaluate in order for it to be safe, effective, and eventually sustainable with within that system.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I have 2 other follow-up questions to this question, and then we'll move on. One one is just as a as a gray haired man and there if there are churches listening, what would you like them to hear about opportunities that you're looking for or your generation is looking for to serve other than just being greeters or being elders, which I I don't know if you find that term offensive to be an elder, but I'm I'm just kidding. But I I've heard from church leaders that are they're trying to figure out how do I find a place for our the older generation to serve what what would you encourage them to do?
Speaker 3:That is a great question. We've worked with a researcher out of Washington State named Ken Moy, and he's done a lot of studying of the boomers and millennials and under. And what he found out is that this was a few years ago, probably about 5 years ago now, is that boomers were returning to church. They abandoned church. And what they got when they got back to church, what they found out was, well, maybe their music is different, but church is still the same.
Speaker 3:There was nothing for them there, you know? You know, the and so they and so they were wondering why why am I going back? And what they found out is that boomers really want to mentor younger generations. And that, you know, we when I I I use that term mentoring loosely. It could be, I wanna teach this young guy how to fix a car or how to program a computer.
Speaker 3:What what does it matter? And so that that's a motivating factor. The other factor is that the millennials and younger, they, but more of the millennials are they want to be mentored by boomers. And and and the young generation, they are open to boomers. You know, it's, it it's it's it's a kind of a surprising thing.
Speaker 3:They're open to being helped by someone who is older. In fact, they see themselves as valued when an older person invests in them. And just by that commitment, it says that I have some worth beyond what I can see in myself.
Speaker 2:Wow. Can you can you say that again? You you said that kids not only enjoy having older people invest in them, but they actually derive more value from it.
Speaker 3:They they try they they see more value in themselves when older people say, I see value in you that's so much value that I would like to invest my time and resources into you.
Speaker 2:That's powerful. Okay. The last follow-up question is the language that churches use as they implement mentoring kids in the community. Some of the language that I've heard is, like, we want to invest in the poor or we they use some label that's, like, I guess, that elicits we're helping the impoverished when they talk about these these kind of things. And so what what would you be your recommendation for a a church who's trying to figure out how do we how do we message this in in a way that's honoring?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, that's a tough one and that's really the the curse of my generation. I hate to say this. Here, first thing is don't come up with a message until you talk to and understand your community. Don't don't even think about a message.
Speaker 3:Here is what you what you really need to start off with is a calling from God. What is the Bible calling us to do? Where what does God say that we need to do? And look at and and then and then look at your community and say, well, how can we practice that in the community? And you learn to do that by saying, well, what does the community say?
Speaker 3:What are they saying they need at this point? You know, each community has strengths and challenges, and you have to understand those strengths as well as the challenges, and concentrate on the strengths and building them up and using those strengths to go overcome the challenges. So to my answer is, listen. I don't think there's any one word that's going to do it. I don't think there's any one concept that's going to do it.
Speaker 3:It's really about understanding and listening to your community. You know, when I got into working with youth, they were called troubled youth. Okay? And, and, and then to, we went to at risk youth. And so, and now at risk youth, so now it's vulnerable youth.
Speaker 3:That's what we use of the time, vulnerable. Prior to that, you know, they were just, you know, back a 100 years ago, they were bad kids. You know, that was it. And and so, and we we took them, and they were problem kids then after that. And so we we kinda use these labels and move it along.
Speaker 3:What we need to do is just look at them as people. God is calling us not to be the come in and save them from whatever. It's really to really invest with them in their community and to be with them, listen to where their heart is at. And don't assume that we know the answer to anything. Listen and we shall find out.
Speaker 3:Oh, and ultimately we know that it's in Christ that we have our answer, that Christ is going to can change our lives and change our communities. But how do we get that out to people who maybe are been hurt by church or really don't even know what church is about?
Speaker 2:I wonder if you could share an example of what that looks like for a church to identify a strength within their community and then use that to address the weakness. You kinda mentioned that. I don't know if you have an example.
Speaker 3:There's a, one is, a church in Pratt, Kansas. Now that's a a farming community, you know, west of of Wichita. It's I've been there a couple of times.
Speaker 2:West of everything.
Speaker 3:For New Yorker, you're nowhere. I mean, you're just like you're just like and and I love these people, and they decided that their strength was they were a church with 60 people, who were old. No kids, that. But their strength was they had a lot of old people. They saw, they then they had some tragedies happen, murders and arsons from maybe to the drug trade, right next to the church, and they they were they thought mentoring was the answer.
Speaker 3:And and now it's like 7 years later, they, they have a youth group with 60 kids. Why? Because, 20 of those 60 adults started mentoring, and then they brought people in from other churches. So it kind of we're not talking about strengthening communities. Other churches said, we gotta do this too.
Speaker 3:But those kids, now 30 kids getting mentors now, they bring their friends to church. And so they built this this this this this youth group and they're strengthening those kids, they're strengthening families, strengthening communities by doing it. What they saw their strength was was people my age and older who could invest in the lives of kids. And I've met these people, they're not all, I should say, my age. They're some of them are younger, but they're they're definitely it's, you know, if you're if you're 45, you're young in that in that congregation.
Speaker 3:You were at that point. Then, I work with a with a church on the up, lower east side of Manhattan. It's, lat Latino church. So it's Latinas and Latinos, for the most part in a community that's, it's a changing community, but there's a lot of housing projects, a lot of Orthodox Jews in there. What they saw, their strength was in in being able, for their community is that people really wanted to do something.
Speaker 3:They they saw the strength and that people really cared about each other. This is New York. It's a tough lower east side was known as a tough area. And and but this is this they they saw that they that people really wanted to reach out. And so when they ran things at the church, people in the community would come in and and and do it.
Speaker 3:We would get involved. People were involved in church because they they had this strong community mindset. So they figured they were building upon that. And they built, a a multi generational ministry with mentoring being the foundation, but it's grown into feeding and other things, all based on the fact that they could take people who were in the pews, and mobilize them not just to be mentors, but to organize a mentoring ministry. So they had, the director told me they had over a 100 mentors at one point, with all mostly run there was 1 paid person and volunteer coaches supervising it.
Speaker 3:And, and so and it's grown and expanded since then.
Speaker 2:Peter, we've kinda discussed I mean, just in a few of my follow-up questions, these labels and I think something people might I I've received a lot of text messages from this last week from people saying, hey. I rather than being a social commentator on the things that are happening in America right now, I'd like to mentor a kid. Wow. And I I think that that's a that's a powerful text message, but underneath it, I think there's an assumption being made that all the kids in our organization are black. Okay.
Speaker 2:Or, though I I appreciate kind of the thought and the the vision with the mentor, the motivation, I also part of me is, like, questioning. Well, is there something I need to address here? And so I I'd love to talk about that text message, your thoughts, while, also, I do think mentoring plays a significant role in bridging different communities together. So whether it is the the socioeconomic demographics to racial demographics, there is something about mentoring that bridges people together. And so I wonder if you could speak to mentoring as a solution for racial reconciliation.
Speaker 3:Calling it a a solution, I would say it could be part of the solution. It's just a very difficult subject and it's something I've been working cross culturally for 4 decades and I'm still learning, I still make stupid ignorant mistakes, you know, sometimes it's it's, you know, I I I feel somewhat ashamed by my, you know, what still I haven't learned yet, after all this. But it's a growth process. And what I find that the people who are most understanding and forgiving of my ignorance are people of color. You know, they understand that I don't know, you know?
Speaker 3:And but it's let me start with that text message, though. I see positives in the text message. I understand what you're saying. And, you know, there are more kids who are Caucasian, white kids that need mentors than there are kids of color in the United States. I I I work in, in in in, communities in, impoverished areas of Appalachia.
Speaker 3:It's mostly I mean, it's 98% white, and they there are more need for mentors than you could ever imagine on every level. But that goes and, I I live in in in one of the best school districts in the country. Right? I went with my church to the school district to ask them, would you have a need for mentors or churches looking at this? And I was expecting all these things like, okay, church and state.
Speaker 3:I I was gonna I had all the answers packed right there. I was I was I was fired up ready to answer, and and they look at me and they said this, when can you start? Okay? That's it. When can you start?
Speaker 3:Every community needs it. But how does racial reconciliation happen for Metering? I I think there's a couple ways we need to look at this. I think we need to ask again, other churches what they think, along the way. I I don't wanna assume anything on on anyone's level.
Speaker 3:But what I see was when churches work together, truly work together in a partnership on things, that changes perspectives. And so if you what we try to do, Stephen, is work, help a nonprofit build teams and churches or multi church teams to help run the mentoring program. So we've seen churches churches that can screen and and and coach mentors. They can recruit. They recruit more effectively than outsiders do often.
Speaker 3:They need they need help in structure with a nonprofit that, but when you bring multiple churches together around that, that there there's a bonding that happens. I had these churches in Brooklyn work together. And what it was, it it was it was cross cultural, cross racial, but they saw a bond that that could happen in in that. And I think it it bridged gaps. And one of the things is that you everybody learns from it.
Speaker 3:You know, no matter who you are, where you're at, you're all you're all gonna learn it, and you're all gonna make mistakes. And it's realizing that along the way. But that through that process, you're bringing about at least a a movement towards reconciliation. And any process of reconciliation, you have to have two factors. 1, you have to have need people who realize that reconciliation needs to take place.
Speaker 3:And unfortunately, that isn't always the case. You need people who want to be reconciled too, but sometimes that just takes people who see that they need they need to ask, to to work towards reconciliation. And so I I think there's a there's a lot of issues with that, but what can happen when churches work together can be powerful. But I think even deeper than that, you know, we talk about, although it's it's great when you've got mentors in the same culture working together, with a with a kid. Right?
Speaker 3:So they come that's very helpful. A lot of kids just need that. But often, cross cultural matches, cross, racial matches are are are helpful too, certain kids in certain places. And I've done matches where we've matched African American youth with with white mentors and, and black mentors with white kids. We've done both ways, because we just saw the need and the timing of it.
Speaker 3:And I would say that those have been some of the most impactful, relationships, not only on the youth, but on the mentor. But for the youth to be able to relate to people of other cultures and to trust people of other cultures, that is such an important fact. That's a skill that will enable them to thrive later on in life. So there is an advantage in that, but the mentor has to be willing to learn through the event. You can't just men match any mentor with in in that situation.
Speaker 3:But the mentor will learn as much or more than the kid through the relationship. And if they're not, then the mentoring thing is not going to work.
Speaker 2:Peter, I assume that you were just gonna talk about the mentor relationship, but I love what you said about churches connecting that that you're really, I I guess, creating a culture where churches are bought in together to build teams that are diverse. So I imagine, like, if you had a Hispanic church and a predominantly white church teaming up together in their community to volunteer to run a mentoring organization. That's a beautiful kind of partnership that I I don't think necessarily people think about when they think about mentoring, addressing, racial reconciliation, they don't think about diverse churches partnering together, and I think that's a that's a powerful
Speaker 3:And I'm not saying any of this is easy. You know, we've we've worked with 1, basically a Latino farming community in Washington state. And, the the this one little town is is 98% Central or South American. And and it but there's some enclaves around it around it that are are are mixed. And, it's been it's been a difficult process, on some levels, but it's it's working.
Speaker 3:I mean, they've got mentoring going and doing a good job. What it did take, and I have to say this, is a dynamic, Latino pastor who has won the confidence of his own, people that the white churches and a school district that is predominantly white run, even though if the students are are are are mixed. And that guy is is is is changing his community.
Speaker 2:I wonder if you could share anything that you found helpful to equip mentors for those cross cultural mentor relationships. Any resources or or things that in that pre service training time that you've dedicated just to this issue, to prepare mentors?
Speaker 3:You know, there are some films to watch, I think that will help. One of the things that we use some of the scenes in our training, is movie Antoine Fisher. And I think that's a a very helpful way of of of really, of kind of grabbing on to some of the needs and and and different aspects of it. It just, it it covers a lot of material. It's with Denzel Washington is in that, and it just does a good job overall.
Speaker 3:I think that there are several movies like that that you can look into that help you understand a little bit. But nothing helps more than just building relationships. And I know that's can't be part of the training process, but, I had I have a black pastor in Brooklyn who's kinda coaching me on a lot of different things as we help him develop some stuff. And, I I'm sure I bug him, but I ask him questions, and he's very patient with me. And because I've worked with course culturally for years, and I've got buddies that I consider valuable in my life for black and Latino, and and his answer to me was this.
Speaker 3:He goes, but do you go fishing with them? Like, you go you go out to dinner with them. Maybe you go or something, but you go fishing with them. He goes he goes, you don't know, guy, until you go fishing with them. I mean, he was speaking metaphorically there, but I mean, it's just it really hit me in in that.
Speaker 3:And and so you can't do that with a mentor, but you can help them understand what we do in our training is understand that they come everybody comes with a worldview, and our worldview is is just skewed by our life experiences, by what has happened to us, by how our education, our family, our communities, and that we have to be able to see the world through a different lens or through a different a a a completely different mindset. And when you start that and then you you understand that you have that that you have a different worldview and this person has a different worldview, and it's not that yours is right and theirs is wrong, it's all coming from a different perspective, then you can and then you start listening to that person with that mindset so that you're not filtering everything through your perspective. You can develop empathy. And when you develop empathy, then trust builds, and that is the key to that cross cultural relationship. So it's worldview, listening, and and and and empathy.
Speaker 3:We do this all through our our training that we give our we we provide people with a template for a mentor training, and that's all just part of that training process.
Speaker 2:I I remember when I started mentoring a boy in our community, I I tried to friend his mom on Facebook, and she she wouldn't she wouldn't approve my my Facebook request. And I asked her about it, probably 6 months into the relationship, and she she said, oh, you don't wanna see what I post about, because because a lot of what she posts posted about, and still post about are race issues. And they're from her perspective. And I mean, there's a lot of pain. And I think Wow.
Speaker 2:From her perspective, she was like, if a white person sees what I'm posting, they'll be upset. It there was just this moment where, my wife and I, we were just like, well, please, how about you check what we're posting and then maybe you'll feel a little more empathy or that that we might be trustworthy to see what you're posting. But even, I just thought that that was a very a striking example of, I don't know, just the disconnect between what you're saying of bridging perspectives and and that it does require mentor relationships require bridging those perspectives and listening Yeah. On both ends. And so I you said Antoine Fisher is a movie that they that mentors should see.
Speaker 3:I would start there. That's one. Let me let me then give you another one. I the the thing to do here is ask your your, your people of different color than you are what movies help, what books help. You know, I I was on a phone call the other day with, African American woman, really sharp running mentoring, and, I'm I'm coaching her through some things.
Speaker 3:And and and she said, you know, Langston Hughes was is is is her go to in helping her. It's still, you know, all these years later, is is to help people understand her perspective on life and and her experience.
Speaker 2:You you had kinda mentioned there are champions in the church that are motivated to make a difference and impact in their community, but, that might not be the case for for everyone. Like, kinda how you mentioned it, very crass was just there are some people that are just butts and bucks, and and I
Speaker 3:get like, I'm a I'm a crass New Yorker. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 2:But the last question, what keeps Christians from mentoring? What what's holding them back?
Speaker 3:Yeah. This is this is a good question because I think it starts off and and there's some research. When I when I was really starting to help churches move along, I I I looked into research from the government back in the nineties. What stopped people from mentoring, which I think is part of the Christian experience too on some level. The first is fear, and this goes wherever.
Speaker 3:And and the first fear, especially, it's this is among men, it's competence. It says, can I do this? Can I how can I how can how can I make this happen? Am I qualified enough? A lot of people feel their past is eliminates them.
Speaker 3:People whose past would help them in relating to kids think it's gonna disqualify them. And, and others just fear just fear whether they can do it or not. Then it it's some fear the that they'll be rejected by the kid. And another is that some feel that they're wasting their time. What how can like an hour or 2 a week, right, gonna change a kid's life?
Speaker 3:You know, what is this? I'm not gonna that's not gonna do anything. And so I I think what you have to really show is that, first of all, that it will have an impact. That their efforts will have an impact one way or another. They may not see that impact.
Speaker 3:It's important to say it. I've had people call me up, 5, 10, even 15 years after I mentored them, And then, told me the impact they had when I thought I I thought I didn't have any impact at all. I would tell you even to this point that I last year, I had a guy that I mentored in the late seventies, early eighties contact me to tell me. And this was the saddest part. He had just retired.
Speaker 3:The guy I mentored is now retired. I'm like, that was the end of it for me, Michael. Sorry.
Speaker 2:You know you're over the hill when your mentee retires.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. That's how old I am. So it's but I mean, that's really important. It it it, you know, you're not gonna see it very much.
Speaker 3:You have to have a problem that's going going going to to make a difference. The thing was that he was calling me and why we started was just because he has been helping and, people who are are are really struggling in life. And he valued my input because he had no idea what you he said, what did you do that that that helped? And so he was looking at that. I would say, another for people like, p people for mentor, it's, it's, unfortunately, selfishness.
Speaker 3:We all want our own time. And, we see this as as taking away from our fulfillment in life rather than being part of the fulfillment of life. And to get past that is that, we need to really cast a vision of what mentoring's about. Having a big picture, and seeing that or some people are just motivated by that relation. Oh, I just wanna have a relationship with the kid.
Speaker 3:I can do that. But others, we need to see the bigger picture. And we need to kinda see that this is this is not going to just impact this kid. This is gonna impact that kid's children and grandchildren. It's gonna impact their siblings and their siblings, kids and their mom, and what comes after that.
Speaker 3:There those are the things we have to do with the cat. And then, what it can do for our community. What is it what happens when one kid life goes and and it's turned around? Just even that we help this kid get a high school education, move on to a job, and be stable. How does that change our community?
Speaker 3:How does that change our world around us? What is it? Cast a vision out to people. And I think that the question you wanna ask people is what has God called you to do? Take away everything else.
Speaker 3:Take take take take all the other stuff away, your life and everything. Has God called you? And when they see that it can produce something and that, and that you're gonna also, that fear factor is that you're going to support them through the relationship. You're gonna have coaches. You're gonna be there to help them through that.
Speaker 3:And then, you know, you cast this vision of what can happen, and then you say, has God called you to do that? There's something they have something to base them on. Before you that before you do those three things, they don't have anything to base it on. That it is God calling me. But you put it as biblical call out, whatever that is.
Speaker 3:You know, I've talked about Isaiah 58 because that is motivating me, but we all have something in this that says, here, this is what God says we can do. And so let's put that together and help help people see that that this this is really changing, not just the kid, but our whole community by this and beyond.
Speaker 2:Peter Vanacore, thank you so much for investing in our mentors. This has been amazing. So many so many truths, so many nuggets, and I I do really believe that, your life spent strengthening communities, and and leaders to mentor. I mean, it's it shows in the things that you share. And I I'm I'm sure our listeners are gonna walk away wanting to challenge their pastors, wanting to challenge their themselves, in that question of what is god calling us to do.
Speaker 2:And I think you you've cast an amazing vision. So that would address all of those things that hold us back if we just had that vision. So thank you so much, Peter. You're amazing.
Speaker 3:No. Listen. I wanna thank you for everything. I you know, when it comes down to it, I'm I'm not amazing. I am just all I am is I followed God's calling for my life, and that's all we're asking people to do.
Speaker 3:I don't care whether you're a pastor, or you're the plumber, or you're the stockbroker, or the policeman, It's whatever God's called you to do. Just be faithful in that. And I and I wanna appreciate all you're doing with with with mentoring right now, Steven. I think you're you're the, you're very, really inspired me by by all that you pulled together here. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Well, Peter, if anyone wants to connect with you after listening to this, how could they reach out to you?
Speaker 3:They can email me, peter@caym.org. So that's Christian Association of Youth Mentoring, caym.org. Feel free to to email me, and and and we can, connect. I can provide you with any information or resources that you need, our organization, our team. If I can't do it, someone on our team can.
Speaker 2:It's amazing. Well, yeah, if you're a mentoring organization leader, highly recommend you check out caym.org and reach out to Peter. He has been, such a valuable resource. So, reach out to him. Peter, thanks again.
Speaker 3:Take care, Steven. Bye bye.