1 00:00:00,184 --> 00:00:02,324 Welcome back to another episode of the Startup Therapy podcast. 2 00:00:02,324 --> 00:00:05,124 This is Ryan Rutan, joined as always by my friend, the founder 3 00:00:05,124 --> 00:00:10,728 and CEO of Startups.com, Will Schroeder Will, seems like 4 00:00:10,748 --> 00:00:14,798 there ought to be a test you have to pass before you're 5 00:00:14,798 --> 00:00:16,668 allowed to give startup advice. 6 00:00:16,688 --> 00:00:17,358 There isn't. 7 00:00:17,378 --> 00:00:20,738 Literally anyone can slap the word advisor on their 8 00:00:20,738 --> 00:00:24,908 LinkedIn and start reshaping people's life decisions with no 9 00:00:24,908 --> 00:00:27,068 license, no exam, no liability. 10 00:00:27,418 --> 00:00:29,447 In fact, we're doing it right now, aren't we? 11 00:00:29,448 --> 00:00:29,798 Hi. 12 00:00:30,487 --> 00:00:33,668 Here's the uncomfortable thing that you'll say about this, 13 00:00:33,957 --> 00:00:39,267 which is that after decades of advising startups, the honest 14 00:00:39,278 --> 00:00:42,838 version is that most startup advisors are, are horrible, 15 00:00:43,187 --> 00:00:45,777 and the worst part is that, isn't that they're horrible, 16 00:00:45,878 --> 00:00:48,567 it's that they have absolutely no idea that they're horrible. 17 00:00:48,577 --> 00:00:48,757 Yeah. 18 00:00:49,657 --> 00:00:49,917 Right? 19 00:00:49,948 --> 00:00:50,578 Which is the worst part. 20 00:00:50,588 --> 00:00:52,537 We're not talking about scammers, bad actors. 21 00:00:52,558 --> 00:00:52,578 Yeah. 22 00:00:52,578 --> 00:00:53,757 Th- those are easy to spot. 23 00:00:53,757 --> 00:00:56,127 We're talking about the well-meaning ones, the advisor 24 00:00:56,128 --> 00:00:59,247 who genuinely thinks that they're helping, while quietly 25 00:00:59,248 --> 00:01:02,867 steering a founder's dream straight into a wall with a 26 00:01:02,867 --> 00:01:04,567 warm smile and total confidence. 27 00:01:04,887 --> 00:01:07,527 So today, let's talk about why so much startup advice 28 00:01:07,527 --> 00:01:10,537 is dangerous, why it's usually delivery and not the 29 00:01:10,538 --> 00:01:11,817 advice that does the damage- 30 00:01:11,827 --> 00:01:12,117 Mm-hmm 31 00:01:12,387 --> 00:01:15,717 … and the three words that separate a great advisor from 32 00:01:15,717 --> 00:01:17,597 an absolute wrecking ball. 33 00:01:17,747 --> 00:01:19,757 How many times have you been at a pitch deck competition 34 00:01:19,757 --> 00:01:22,638 where you're called to be one of the judges, and you watch 35 00:01:22,657 --> 00:01:27,027 one of the other judges deliver feedback in such a certain 36 00:01:27,107 --> 00:01:29,048 cocksure manner- Oh, yeah 37 00:01:29,048 --> 00:01:31,147 and you're like, "That person doesn't know what they're 38 00:01:31,147 --> 00:01:33,497 talking about at all." Like, like, that's- Yeah … batshit 39 00:01:33,537 --> 00:01:36,617 crazy, and it's not even like their opinion's just off. 40 00:01:36,777 --> 00:01:39,168 They're, like, fundamentally wrong. 41 00:01:39,168 --> 00:01:42,128 And it, it reminds me of where we are with AI right now, right? 42 00:01:42,128 --> 00:01:43,178 Where, like, Claude can give you- I, I was getting ready 43 00:01:43,178 --> 00:01:44,047 to make the same parallel 44 00:01:44,067 --> 00:01:44,237 an 45 00:01:44,247 --> 00:01:44,357 absolute answer. 46 00:01:44,357 --> 00:01:46,387 I was like Yeah. 47 00:01:46,757 --> 00:01:47,137 Right? 48 00:01:47,297 --> 00:01:48,318 Will this be fatal? 49 00:01:48,378 --> 00:01:50,427 Yes, you are going to die in four days. 50 00:01:50,437 --> 00:01:50,457 Yeah. 51 00:01:50,817 --> 00:01:52,077 But you know it's not cancer. 52 00:01:52,157 --> 00:01:52,897 Oh, just kidding. 53 00:01:52,897 --> 00:01:54,037 I should've looked more closely. 54 00:01:54,047 --> 00:01:54,538 You'll be fine. 55 00:01:55,367 --> 00:01:55,657 Yes. 56 00:01:55,657 --> 00:01:55,842 Yeah. 57 00:01:55,842 --> 00:01:57,847 You, you nailed it, right? 58 00:01:57,867 --> 00:01:57,947 Yeah. 59 00:01:57,948 --> 00:01:58,248 Yeah. 60 00:01:58,367 --> 00:01:59,578 No, it's- Exactly … it's exactly that. 61 00:01:59,578 --> 00:02:00,987 I remember the, the first couple times, people were 62 00:02:00,988 --> 00:02:03,388 like, "Look at how wrong it can be and, and how confident, 63 00:02:03,388 --> 00:02:04,237 and that's really dangerous." 64 00:02:04,247 --> 00:02:05,847 I was like, "Have you ever talked to a startup advisor?" 65 00:02:05,917 --> 00:02:06,678 Oh, my God, yeah. 66 00:02:06,777 --> 00:02:07,647 That's the worst part. 67 00:02:07,647 --> 00:02:09,927 Like, I think you said this, you know, in the intro, but, like, 68 00:02:10,147 --> 00:02:11,478 these are well-meaning people. 69 00:02:11,667 --> 00:02:13,007 Like, these aren't- Yes … necessarily, like, 70 00:02:13,018 --> 00:02:14,727 you know, these Bernie Madoff, like, they've got 71 00:02:14,727 --> 00:02:16,447 some, some nefarious plan. 72 00:02:16,507 --> 00:02:16,717 No. 73 00:02:16,838 --> 00:02:18,678 There's no agenda other than trying to help. 74 00:02:18,727 --> 00:02:20,977 Which almost makes it worse, because- It does … you 75 00:02:20,977 --> 00:02:22,487 want them to be right, right? 76 00:02:22,488 --> 00:02:24,947 Like, you, like… And so startups, you know, founders 77 00:02:24,958 --> 00:02:28,447 have a couple of disadvantages going into all of this. 78 00:02:28,647 --> 00:02:31,357 The first is you don't know what you don't know. 79 00:02:31,637 --> 00:02:31,897 Right. 80 00:02:31,897 --> 00:02:36,287 And so when someone tells you that the sky is red 81 00:02:36,937 --> 00:02:39,498 and you can't tell the difference, then the sky- Right 82 00:02:39,498 --> 00:02:40,407 is red, right? 83 00:02:40,477 --> 00:02:40,887 Yes. 84 00:02:41,117 --> 00:02:44,248 And so the problem with the advisor is the advisor 85 00:02:44,248 --> 00:02:47,587 is so certain that what they're saying is true- Yeah, 86 00:02:47,587 --> 00:02:47,897 yeah 87 00:02:47,897 --> 00:02:50,537 … or isn't tainted by bias or anything else like that, they 88 00:02:50,537 --> 00:02:53,628 deliver it in a manner where the founder is like, you have 89 00:02:53,628 --> 00:02:56,847 just gotten, you know, ground truth that's undeniable- Right 90 00:02:57,197 --> 00:02:58,128 because I said it. 91 00:02:58,128 --> 00:02:58,408 Yep. 92 00:02:58,408 --> 00:02:59,617 And the way they say it. 93 00:02:59,667 --> 00:02:59,837 Yeah. 94 00:02:59,837 --> 00:03:00,057 Right? 95 00:03:00,057 --> 00:03:00,238 Yeah, yeah. 96 00:03:00,327 --> 00:03:04,478 Because an opinion delivered with the conviction of a fact- 97 00:03:04,750 --> 00:03:06,362 becomes a fact to the person who can't tell the difference 98 00:03:06,362 --> 00:03:07,030 Sounds awful lot like a fact. 99 00:03:08,030 --> 00:03:08,430 Right? 100 00:03:09,350 --> 00:03:11,365 That's not advising, that's counterfeiting, right? 101 00:03:11,365 --> 00:03:11,540 Yep. 102 00:03:11,540 --> 00:03:13,200 And it happens all day long. 103 00:03:13,210 --> 00:03:13,240 Yep. 104 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:14,980 And again, like they don't necessarily know they're doing 105 00:03:14,980 --> 00:03:18,060 it, but it is the confidence that it's presented with 106 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:19,570 makes us wanna believe it. 107 00:03:19,610 --> 00:03:21,859 And, and I'm always a little bit amazed by that because, now 108 00:03:21,859 --> 00:03:26,069 to, to be fair, most people, and again, advisors don't get a, a 109 00:03:26,070 --> 00:03:31,099 monopoly on this, most people are wildly, uh, lacking in the 110 00:03:31,099 --> 00:03:32,529 self-awareness column, right? 111 00:03:32,579 --> 00:03:32,910 Yeah. 112 00:03:33,189 --> 00:03:36,499 But as an advisor, that actually needs to be one of 113 00:03:36,500 --> 00:03:39,639 your greatest strengths, is a matter of self-awareness. 114 00:03:39,649 --> 00:03:39,679 Right. 115 00:03:39,739 --> 00:03:41,609 And, and I'll, I'll give you a couple examples- 116 00:03:41,619 --> 00:03:43,209 Yeah … of where, like where I see it all the time. 117 00:03:43,610 --> 00:03:44,990 We'll go back to the pitch deck competition. 118 00:03:45,369 --> 00:03:47,639 One of the judges gets up there and says, "No one will 119 00:03:47,709 --> 00:03:49,410 ever fund that, full stop." 120 00:03:49,689 --> 00:03:50,159 Okay. 121 00:03:50,430 --> 00:03:50,890 Okay. 122 00:03:51,079 --> 00:03:54,799 It turns out that you know exactly the funding 123 00:03:54,799 --> 00:03:57,329 behaviors of every- Yeah … eligible investor. 124 00:03:57,369 --> 00:03:59,639 Now, I understand- Every single one … right. 125 00:03:59,750 --> 00:04:01,629 There's some things that are like, okay, generally 126 00:04:01,629 --> 00:04:02,459 that's not fundable. 127 00:04:02,459 --> 00:04:04,859 Like, hey, I'm gonna go after VC and I'm opening 128 00:04:04,859 --> 00:04:05,730 a Subway franchise. 129 00:04:05,980 --> 00:04:06,519 Not gonna happen. 130 00:04:06,609 --> 00:04:06,629 Yeah. 131 00:04:06,629 --> 00:04:08,999 I, I can certainly tell you not, you know- Yeah 132 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,600 bias notwithstanding, it's just not compatible. 133 00:04:11,909 --> 00:04:12,079 Right. 134 00:04:12,110 --> 00:04:14,749 But often that, that comes more of like an opinion, 135 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,498 nothing based on fact And I'm totally unaware that 136 00:04:19,508 --> 00:04:20,868 maybe that could be damaging. 137 00:04:21,048 --> 00:04:21,428 You know what I mean? 138 00:04:21,428 --> 00:04:21,658 Right. 139 00:04:21,738 --> 00:04:22,448 Yeah, that's the thing. 140 00:04:22,458 --> 00:04:23,698 Do they need to hear this right now? 141 00:04:23,708 --> 00:04:25,507 Like, what are you actually trying to do in that moment? 142 00:04:25,788 --> 00:04:28,248 "No investor will ever fund this." My response to that is 143 00:04:28,248 --> 00:04:31,958 always, "How many Patagonia vests do you own?" Right? 144 00:04:32,118 --> 00:04:33,367 You must have them all. 145 00:04:34,147 --> 00:04:34,177 Like- 146 00:04:34,237 --> 00:04:34,447 Well, 147 00:04:34,468 --> 00:04:36,937 I mean- You know what every founder or every funding 148 00:04:36,938 --> 00:04:37,838 source is thinking right now. 149 00:04:37,838 --> 00:04:39,197 Like, it is ridiculous. 150 00:04:39,247 --> 00:04:41,297 And again, like, I think that the important part there is 151 00:04:41,587 --> 00:04:44,588 they're not telling you that because they wanna damage you. 152 00:04:44,597 --> 00:04:45,857 They're not telling you that because they don't 153 00:04:45,858 --> 00:04:46,737 wanna see you succeed. 154 00:04:46,887 --> 00:04:49,338 They're telling you that because somehow they think that's 155 00:04:49,358 --> 00:04:50,848 going to inform your success. 156 00:04:50,997 --> 00:04:51,237 Right. 157 00:04:51,237 --> 00:04:53,147 And, and which is dangerous. 158 00:04:53,367 --> 00:04:53,617 Okay? 159 00:04:53,628 --> 00:04:53,648 Yeah. 160 00:04:53,657 --> 00:04:56,438 Now, again, in this case we're talking about just 161 00:04:56,438 --> 00:04:58,358 a fundamental unawareness. 162 00:04:58,578 --> 00:04:58,598 Yeah. 163 00:04:58,598 --> 00:05:00,887 Here's another great example that I see all the time, 164 00:05:00,887 --> 00:05:02,648 and it's kind of tied to the pitch deck competition. 165 00:05:02,788 --> 00:05:05,597 Every single town, every single town across the 166 00:05:05,597 --> 00:05:08,108 world has what we call- The guy … the local yokel. 167 00:05:08,398 --> 00:05:08,708 Okay? 168 00:05:08,968 --> 00:05:09,088 Yeah. 169 00:05:09,137 --> 00:05:11,868 The local yokel is someone who goes around in 170 00:05:11,868 --> 00:05:15,128 their town spouting out- Yeah … startup advice as 171 00:05:15,128 --> 00:05:16,467 if they have a worldview. 172 00:05:16,968 --> 00:05:19,617 But what they don't know, th- their unawareness, is 173 00:05:19,737 --> 00:05:22,997 what they're talking about is actually really wrong. 174 00:05:23,347 --> 00:05:24,738 So I used to see- Yeah … this all the time. 175 00:05:24,877 --> 00:05:26,677 You know, when I was coming out of, out of Columbus, Ohio, 176 00:05:26,677 --> 00:05:28,027 which I love, it's where I live. 177 00:05:28,057 --> 00:05:29,327 You graduated college there. 178 00:05:29,328 --> 00:05:30,118 You know, you're a big fan. 179 00:05:30,377 --> 00:05:33,907 But the local yokels, of which I was one of them, okay? 180 00:05:34,008 --> 00:05:35,717 So I'm, I'm gonna put myself in the firing line here- 181 00:05:35,828 --> 00:05:35,978 Sure 182 00:05:36,218 --> 00:05:39,888 … would deliver a lot of decrees about how startups should 183 00:05:39,888 --> 00:05:41,907 work and how things will work and what's investable- Yeah 184 00:05:41,907 --> 00:05:42,397 et cetera. 185 00:05:42,718 --> 00:05:46,717 It wasn't until I went to the West Coast, initially 186 00:05:46,718 --> 00:05:48,917 Los Angeles and then eventually to San Francisco, 187 00:05:49,137 --> 00:05:49,797 where I was like- Got an 188 00:05:49,797 --> 00:05:50,597 actual worldview? 189 00:05:50,758 --> 00:05:50,868 Yeah. 190 00:05:50,968 --> 00:05:52,618 Yeah, exactly, where I was like, holy shit. 191 00:05:52,667 --> 00:05:56,907 Like, the stuff I was saying was so far off base. 192 00:05:57,277 --> 00:05:59,447 Again, it wasn't, you know, negative. 193 00:05:59,508 --> 00:06:01,597 It w- you know, I, I was like, I would have 194 00:06:01,597 --> 00:06:02,268 said something opposite. 195 00:06:02,268 --> 00:06:03,597 I would be like, "Oh my God, investors would 196 00:06:03,597 --> 00:06:05,847 love to fund this" out of also misdirected, yeah. 197 00:06:05,847 --> 00:06:06,197 Yeah, yeah. 198 00:06:06,197 --> 00:06:08,208 They'd love to fund your Subway franchise. 199 00:06:08,208 --> 00:06:08,337 Yeah. 200 00:06:08,337 --> 00:06:08,567 Yeah. 201 00:06:08,567 --> 00:06:10,328 They, here's all the reasons it doesn't fit. 202 00:06:10,557 --> 00:06:13,468 So I think what ends up happening is the local yokels, 203 00:06:13,907 --> 00:06:16,497 and I wanna stick on this point just for a sec, Ry, because 204 00:06:16,937 --> 00:06:20,817 I'm 100% sure there are an awful lot of founders that are 205 00:06:20,817 --> 00:06:24,918 listening to us right now- That need this checkpoint, right? 206 00:06:25,408 --> 00:06:25,828 Yes. 207 00:06:26,228 --> 00:06:29,428 Look around at the advice you're getting in any town in USA. 208 00:06:29,528 --> 00:06:31,438 And by the way, this also applies if you're 209 00:06:31,438 --> 00:06:32,798 in Palo Alto, right? 210 00:06:32,828 --> 00:06:34,278 Or, you know, Menlo Par- you, you're the 211 00:06:34,278 --> 00:06:35,058 heart of Silicon Valley. 212 00:06:35,278 --> 00:06:39,758 You have to understand that the folks around you have a bias. 213 00:06:39,917 --> 00:06:43,098 They have an, a blind spot that they don't understand. 214 00:06:43,577 --> 00:06:46,297 When I lived in San Francisco, the folks there 215 00:06:46,388 --> 00:06:48,618 thought the whole world thought like San Francisco. 216 00:06:48,878 --> 00:06:50,087 Also a bias, right? 217 00:06:50,087 --> 00:06:51,528 An incredible bias, right? 218 00:06:51,528 --> 00:06:51,788 Yeah. 219 00:06:51,888 --> 00:06:54,467 They were like, "How could you possibly live on less than a 220 00:06:54,468 --> 00:06:57,747 million dollars a year?" I was- 221 00:06:57,857 --> 00:06:58,458 I don't know. 222 00:06:58,618 --> 00:07:01,808 Like, I followed the advice of literally 7.9 223 00:07:01,818 --> 00:07:02,798 billion other people. 224 00:07:02,807 --> 00:07:04,738 Yeah, I was gonna say, like, like, I'm making a bit of a 225 00:07:04,738 --> 00:07:07,198 mockery of it, but, like, it wasn't that far off, right? 226 00:07:07,257 --> 00:07:09,668 You'd hear people say, "Oh, okay. Well, you can buy a 227 00:07:09,668 --> 00:07:12,248 house for a million dollars where you're from." I'm like- 228 00:07:12,368 --> 00:07:12,678 Yeah 229 00:07:12,787 --> 00:07:13,518 … " Pause right there. 230 00:07:13,728 --> 00:07:16,817 You understand" … They don't. "You understand that the zip 231 00:07:16,818 --> 00:07:21,197 code that you live in, the price point there represents .00001%- 232 00:07:23,397 --> 00:07:23,417 Yeah 233 00:07:23,737 --> 00:07:24,318 of housing." 234 00:07:24,577 --> 00:07:25,508 Self-awareness, zero. 235 00:07:25,607 --> 00:07:25,777 Dude. 236 00:07:25,917 --> 00:07:26,037 Yeah. 237 00:07:26,037 --> 00:07:26,212 Like- 238 00:07:26,212 --> 00:07:26,808 But you know what? 239 00:07:26,808 --> 00:07:27,637 Like, honestly- 240 00:07:27,757 --> 00:07:28,958 Also, you're from Kentucky. 241 00:07:29,847 --> 00:07:30,057 Right. 242 00:07:30,427 --> 00:07:30,567 Yeah. 243 00:07:30,567 --> 00:07:31,677 You, you got here nine minutes ago. 244 00:07:31,757 --> 00:07:32,007 I would put it sort of 245 00:07:32,007 --> 00:07:32,557 like that, yeah. 246 00:07:32,847 --> 00:07:35,888 At least in those cases, like from my perspective, when 247 00:07:35,888 --> 00:07:37,977 they have an obvious tell that there's- Yeah … a bunch of 248 00:07:37,978 --> 00:07:40,467 bias being introduced into their advice, it makes them a 249 00:07:40,467 --> 00:07:42,537 little less dangerous, right? 250 00:07:42,537 --> 00:07:43,907 Well- It's a little less dangerous when, if you 251 00:07:44,207 --> 00:07:45,027 can spot it … you're saying if you can see it. 252 00:07:45,027 --> 00:07:46,088 If you can spot it. 253 00:07:46,088 --> 00:07:46,248 Yeah. 254 00:07:46,248 --> 00:07:49,097 Because to me, the most dangerous ones aren't the 255 00:07:49,097 --> 00:07:52,578 ones with, like, the absolute hyperboles and bad advice. 256 00:07:52,827 --> 00:07:56,417 It's the ones with decent advice that's still 257 00:07:56,448 --> 00:07:57,837 absolutely wrong, right? 258 00:07:57,837 --> 00:07:57,867 Correct. 259 00:07:57,867 --> 00:07:57,897 Yeah. 260 00:07:57,897 --> 00:08:00,268 The ones that, that sound a bit more credible. 261 00:08:00,548 --> 00:08:00,748 Right. 262 00:08:00,748 --> 00:08:01,177 Right? 263 00:08:01,338 --> 00:08:03,447 Because sometimes, like when it's printed with, like, 264 00:08:03,478 --> 00:08:05,897 too much confidence or, or, or even bravado, right? 265 00:08:05,897 --> 00:08:08,758 But, like, when they also artificially attach humility 266 00:08:08,758 --> 00:08:11,587 to it without it being real- … that gets even more dangerous. 267 00:08:11,697 --> 00:08:13,727 It's like now it's a concealed weapon. 268 00:08:13,787 --> 00:08:14,307 Yeah, right. 269 00:08:14,307 --> 00:08:15,147 Concealed weapon, I like that. 270 00:08:15,408 --> 00:08:16,258 Right, think about it this way. 271 00:08:16,457 --> 00:08:18,768 The biggest thing is this lack of self-awareness. 272 00:08:18,768 --> 00:08:20,397 To me, that's the, the biggest frustration. 273 00:08:20,717 --> 00:08:23,607 An, an actual sense of self-awareness would be a 274 00:08:23,607 --> 00:08:26,957 person saying, "What I'm about to share is an opinion. 275 00:08:27,127 --> 00:08:29,597 It is backed by no more than my own experience-" Yes 276 00:08:29,607 --> 00:08:31,648 which, you know, could include other people's experiences. 277 00:08:31,837 --> 00:08:32,007 Yeah. 278 00:08:32,018 --> 00:08:34,097 But it's just one data point. 279 00:08:34,507 --> 00:08:35,787 Here's what comes out instead. 280 00:08:36,514 --> 00:08:40,154 Here's what I feel strongly about, here is my argument, and 281 00:08:40,154 --> 00:08:41,994 now it's your argument, right? 282 00:08:42,024 --> 00:08:43,744 Like, my words are now your words. 283 00:08:43,994 --> 00:08:46,064 And we'll talk about this later when we talk about how, you 284 00:08:46,064 --> 00:08:47,873 know, people kind of create some pressure around making 285 00:08:47,874 --> 00:08:50,304 sure, you know, their opinions become other people's decisions. 286 00:08:51,074 --> 00:08:54,804 But it's this wholesale lack of self-awareness. 287 00:08:54,984 --> 00:08:57,904 And part of this is foundationally the advisor 288 00:08:57,914 --> 00:09:02,514 doesn't realize how weighty that guiding hand is, right? 289 00:09:02,584 --> 00:09:02,924 Like- 290 00:09:02,943 --> 00:09:03,123 Right. 291 00:09:03,154 --> 00:09:04,753 It can be a passing comment to them. 292 00:09:04,754 --> 00:09:06,963 They're like, "Well, yeah, I said that, but I, I only 293 00:09:06,974 --> 00:09:10,074 meant it like 20 out of 100, not 100 power." Right. 294 00:09:10,074 --> 00:09:10,103 Right. 295 00:09:10,104 --> 00:09:11,363 "I had turned down the wattage." 296 00:09:11,383 --> 00:09:11,693 Right. 297 00:09:11,693 --> 00:09:11,724 Right? 298 00:09:11,724 --> 00:09:12,953 Well, no one else feels that. 299 00:09:13,034 --> 00:09:13,294 Yep. 300 00:09:13,404 --> 00:09:14,774 It's the way I look at parenting. 301 00:09:15,194 --> 00:09:18,993 Parents take for granted often the weight of their words. 302 00:09:19,314 --> 00:09:21,413 If, heaven forbid, this would never happen, but, 303 00:09:21,413 --> 00:09:24,264 like, if I told my daughter she was ugly, right? 304 00:09:24,334 --> 00:09:26,513 And there are parents who have clearly done that, right? 305 00:09:26,523 --> 00:09:26,553 Yep. 306 00:09:26,873 --> 00:09:29,043 The weight of their words- 307 00:09:29,433 --> 00:09:29,653 Yes 308 00:09:29,654 --> 00:09:31,274 isn't the same as if they told somebody else 309 00:09:31,274 --> 00:09:32,374 that they're ugly, right? 310 00:09:32,374 --> 00:09:32,384 Right. 311 00:09:32,384 --> 00:09:35,114 Like, you've just scarred that human for life, right? 312 00:09:35,114 --> 00:09:35,163 Correct. 313 00:09:35,163 --> 00:09:37,783 The amount of damage you've done, the nuclear bomb- Yep 314 00:09:37,843 --> 00:09:40,163 … that you dropped in what you thought was a passing comment, 315 00:09:40,353 --> 00:09:41,644 they will never forget that. 316 00:09:41,653 --> 00:09:41,683 Yep. 317 00:09:41,693 --> 00:09:44,033 That's gonna shape so many c- you know, courses of their life, 318 00:09:44,034 --> 00:09:45,293 their relationships, et cetera. 319 00:09:45,623 --> 00:09:49,464 Advising has that same kind of weight to it, right? 320 00:09:49,483 --> 00:09:49,503 It 321 00:09:49,504 --> 00:09:49,764 does. 322 00:09:49,803 --> 00:09:53,773 You are changing the course of their future with every word, 323 00:09:54,343 --> 00:09:55,413 often without realizing it. 324 00:09:55,613 --> 00:09:57,744 Yeah, and at a particularly time where they're 325 00:09:57,744 --> 00:09:59,734 particularly susceptible to it, because they want you- 326 00:09:59,734 --> 00:10:01,073 Yes … to have the answers. 327 00:10:01,074 --> 00:10:04,754 They came there hoping that you could tell them something 328 00:10:04,973 --> 00:10:07,283 that's definitive fact about what they need to go and do, and 329 00:10:07,284 --> 00:10:10,503 then you do exactly that, and they forget the part where you 330 00:10:10,503 --> 00:10:14,083 might be completely wrong about everything that you just said. 331 00:10:14,093 --> 00:10:17,273 I- Because they don't have a way to evaluate that, and so 332 00:10:17,273 --> 00:10:21,594 they take it at face value, at full throttle, and they're like, 333 00:10:21,594 --> 00:10:24,073 "Okay, I'm gonna go do exactly what you said," or, "I'm gonna 334 00:10:24,073 --> 00:10:25,144 believe exactly what you said. 335 00:10:25,333 --> 00:10:26,534 No one's gonna fund this. 336 00:10:26,534 --> 00:10:28,683 Okay, so we gotta figure out plan B," right? 337 00:10:29,023 --> 00:10:30,613 When plan A may have been completely valid. 338 00:10:30,854 --> 00:10:32,893 The biggest culprits here are investors, uh, 339 00:10:32,893 --> 00:10:34,473 particularly VCs, right? 340 00:10:34,633 --> 00:10:38,123 Those folks are so used to their word, their response, 341 00:10:38,123 --> 00:10:39,313 their feedback, right? 342 00:10:39,313 --> 00:10:39,354 Yeah. 343 00:10:39,354 --> 00:10:39,664 Yeah. 344 00:10:39,674 --> 00:10:41,303 Like Simon Cowell style, right? 345 00:10:41,403 --> 00:10:45,014 Where how they feel is the outcome of the startup. 346 00:10:45,074 --> 00:10:47,293 Well, b- because it often is, right? 347 00:10:47,293 --> 00:10:47,303 Like- 348 00:10:47,303 --> 00:10:48,333 Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying, right? 349 00:10:48,383 --> 00:10:49,613 They get to decide, right? 350 00:10:49,633 --> 00:10:52,314 My opinion decides whether you get the money, ergo- Correct 351 00:10:52,523 --> 00:10:53,133 … I have all the power, 352 00:10:53,383 --> 00:10:53,473 right? 353 00:10:53,494 --> 00:10:54,234 Correct, it must be true. 354 00:10:54,244 --> 00:10:54,264 Yeah. 355 00:10:54,693 --> 00:10:56,723 And for the startups, to your point, like, 356 00:10:56,733 --> 00:10:57,883 it has a gating effect. 357 00:10:58,423 --> 00:10:58,503 Yeah. 358 00:10:58,514 --> 00:10:59,874 So it is true. 359 00:10:59,883 --> 00:11:01,744 If you don't think that I'm good enough, then 360 00:11:01,744 --> 00:11:02,474 I'm not good enough. 361 00:11:02,494 --> 00:11:04,113 You know, that's essentially the, the premise. 362 00:11:04,814 --> 00:11:08,603 So years ago, I'm at a board meeting with my own investors. 363 00:11:08,613 --> 00:11:09,934 So this wasn't, like, a new investor. 364 00:11:09,934 --> 00:11:11,284 It was an investor I had a relationship with. 365 00:11:11,294 --> 00:11:17,164 Mm. And this particular investor was always, like, really 366 00:11:17,223 --> 00:11:21,243 sure about everything he was saying even though I knew damn 367 00:11:21,243 --> 00:11:23,903 sure most of the stuff he was pulling out of his ass, right? 368 00:11:23,904 --> 00:11:24,623 He just- 369 00:11:24,623 --> 00:11:24,843 Yep 370 00:11:25,173 --> 00:11:28,773 … he had this undesirable or unquenchable thirst 371 00:11:29,103 --> 00:11:30,833 to, like, peacock, right? 372 00:11:30,833 --> 00:11:30,853 Yeah. 373 00:11:30,853 --> 00:11:32,483 And make sure everybody, you know, saw he was the guy. 374 00:11:32,753 --> 00:11:36,083 So one day, I'm presenting our, our numbers or whatever, 375 00:11:36,513 --> 00:11:39,464 and he says something to the effect w- of, "Well, that'll 376 00:11:39,464 --> 00:11:42,903 never work." And I was like, again, going through the 377 00:11:42,913 --> 00:11:44,093 dialogue tree in my head. 378 00:11:44,314 --> 00:11:46,223 I'm like- Yeah … "Okay, option one, say nothing. 379 00:11:46,223 --> 00:11:47,163 Just put it aside, Will. 380 00:11:47,163 --> 00:11:48,273 Pretend it didn't happen. 381 00:11:48,303 --> 00:11:49,593 Don't create-" Yeah … "more controversy. 382 00:11:49,593 --> 00:11:50,754 Move on to the next slide," right? 383 00:11:51,053 --> 00:11:51,263 Yeah. 384 00:11:51,323 --> 00:11:54,383 And that's 99% of the time where I would go. 385 00:11:54,753 --> 00:11:55,023 Yep. 386 00:11:55,064 --> 00:11:57,313 The other 1%, I remember opening up with something 387 00:11:57,314 --> 00:11:58,353 along as, "Fuck this guy." 388 00:11:58,983 --> 00:11:59,313 Yeah. 389 00:11:59,723 --> 00:12:01,784 And like, "I can't deal with this anymore." 390 00:12:02,353 --> 00:12:05,033 And so this is very unusual for me. 391 00:12:05,044 --> 00:12:06,054 I went that other direction. 392 00:12:06,054 --> 00:12:07,574 I, I went the non-diplomatic way. 393 00:12:08,013 --> 00:12:08,123 Uh-huh. 394 00:12:08,163 --> 00:12:11,123 And I just said to him, I'm like, "Dude, you can't say stuff 395 00:12:11,123 --> 00:12:13,723 like that." And he's like- Yeah … "W- huh?" Like he, like- What? 396 00:12:13,723 --> 00:12:14,003 What do you mean? 397 00:12:14,123 --> 00:12:16,724 … definitely not what he expected my next response to be. 398 00:12:16,913 --> 00:12:16,948 Yeah, yeah. 399 00:12:16,948 --> 00:12:17,038 This was me scolding him, right? 400 00:12:17,038 --> 00:12:17,073 Wait, no, 401 00:12:18,613 --> 00:12:20,304 you can't say stuff like that- Yeah. 402 00:12:20,333 --> 00:12:20,773 … Will. 403 00:12:20,833 --> 00:12:21,193 No. 404 00:12:23,293 --> 00:12:26,283 And I said, "Look, you can't say stuff like that," right? 405 00:12:26,373 --> 00:12:29,644 Because first off, categorically what you just said is false 406 00:12:30,222 --> 00:12:30,852 Right. 407 00:12:30,852 --> 00:12:34,692 And you said it as if because you felt it, it was true. 408 00:12:34,702 --> 00:12:34,722 Yeah. 409 00:12:35,062 --> 00:12:35,942 That's wrong. 410 00:12:36,162 --> 00:12:37,862 That's called externalizing, right? 411 00:12:37,862 --> 00:12:40,222 If, if you're gonna think out loud, please preface it 412 00:12:40,222 --> 00:12:41,751 with, "I'm thinking out loud. 413 00:12:41,891 --> 00:12:43,462 Here's some stream of consciousness. 414 00:12:43,472 --> 00:12:44,792 Do with it what you will." 415 00:12:44,992 --> 00:12:47,221 And I was like, "Your opinion doesn't make something fact, 416 00:12:47,421 --> 00:12:48,488 right? It just doesn't." Yeah. 417 00:12:48,488 --> 00:12:48,802 It doesn't. 418 00:12:48,802 --> 00:12:50,262 And I was like… And, and again, this was 419 00:12:50,262 --> 00:12:51,122 categorically false. 420 00:12:51,132 --> 00:12:52,662 But he, he was like, "You'll never sell that." And I'm like, 421 00:12:52,662 --> 00:12:54,081 "Dude, I just sold it." Right? 422 00:12:54,081 --> 00:12:54,155 Like- Yeah. 423 00:12:54,155 --> 00:12:54,391 It's like 424 00:12:54,411 --> 00:12:56,362 it's already actually happened. 425 00:12:56,372 --> 00:12:57,541 Yeah, exa- That was- 426 00:12:57,861 --> 00:12:58,031 Do you 427 00:12:58,081 --> 00:12:59,322 mean again, sir? That's why I made the point so 428 00:12:59,322 --> 00:13:01,662 strongly, because I wasn't questioning his opinion. 429 00:13:01,972 --> 00:13:03,722 I was verifying how wrong he was. 430 00:13:03,722 --> 00:13:04,027 Yeah. 431 00:13:04,027 --> 00:13:05,711 And it wasn't 'cause I wanted to hurt the guy 432 00:13:05,711 --> 00:13:06,691 or make him feel bad. 433 00:13:06,691 --> 00:13:06,971 Right. 434 00:13:06,971 --> 00:13:07,363 He's not a bad guy. 435 00:13:07,363 --> 00:13:07,841 But, like, 436 00:13:08,151 --> 00:13:08,452 yeah. 437 00:13:08,812 --> 00:13:12,241 But I was like, dude, if it weren't for me, like, I have the 438 00:13:12,242 --> 00:13:15,092 experience to both actually have backed that statement up, but 439 00:13:15,092 --> 00:13:17,031 also to have done this before. 440 00:13:17,441 --> 00:13:20,092 But if I was 15 years younger at the time- Sure … and I 441 00:13:20,092 --> 00:13:23,122 was coming into a VC for the first time, I would've just 442 00:13:23,132 --> 00:13:26,871 taken what you said and actioned it and said, "Okay, I guess 443 00:13:26,871 --> 00:13:27,471 we're not gonna do that." 444 00:13:27,731 --> 00:13:28,791 Or hold everything else constant. 445 00:13:28,801 --> 00:13:30,991 What if you had just done that three weeks earlier before you'd 446 00:13:30,992 --> 00:13:32,221 actually sold one of those? 447 00:13:32,341 --> 00:13:32,591 Yeah. 448 00:13:32,621 --> 00:13:32,871 Right. 449 00:13:32,891 --> 00:13:36,731 Dude, you gotta be careful as an advisor- Yeah … when you make 450 00:13:36,762 --> 00:13:39,642 these statements, these forward- Yeah … looking, pretend I'm 451 00:13:39,642 --> 00:13:43,491 the Oracle statements, that you're not Nostradamus, dude. 452 00:13:43,891 --> 00:13:44,101 Right? 453 00:13:44,101 --> 00:13:44,421 Yeah. 454 00:13:44,512 --> 00:13:48,372 And if you are, then only invest in successful companies, right? 455 00:13:48,372 --> 00:13:48,399 Right. 456 00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:48,426 Yeah. 457 00:13:48,426 --> 00:13:49,322 Like, if, if you're so certain. 458 00:13:49,491 --> 00:13:50,662 Here, here's a great example. 459 00:13:50,972 --> 00:13:53,601 They never talk about this publicly, certain ones do, 460 00:13:53,951 --> 00:13:57,711 but there's essentially a quadrant graph for VCs, and 461 00:13:57,711 --> 00:13:59,722 it's based on fund performance. 462 00:13:59,751 --> 00:14:00,922 It's very binary. 463 00:14:00,931 --> 00:14:00,941 Hm. 464 00:14:00,972 --> 00:14:01,212 Right? 465 00:14:01,212 --> 00:14:03,141 You, you look, look over a certain period of years 466 00:14:03,402 --> 00:14:06,131 and you say what kind of, uh, rate of return has- 467 00:14:06,332 --> 00:14:07,131 Yeah … each of the funds done. 468 00:14:07,472 --> 00:14:11,732 And of course, the top right, top quadrant is always the names 469 00:14:11,732 --> 00:14:13,811 you know, Sequoia and a- Yeah … and all those guys, right? 470 00:14:14,431 --> 00:14:18,111 But the people in the bottom left, right, like, they're 471 00:14:18,111 --> 00:14:20,551 in the wrong end of both axes who are never gonna return 472 00:14:20,551 --> 00:14:25,358 money in fundamentally, numerically- were as wrong as 473 00:14:25,367 --> 00:14:28,008 you can be in their industry are the ones that never shut 474 00:14:28,018 --> 00:14:29,358 up in those meetings, right? 475 00:14:29,358 --> 00:14:29,367 Yeah. 476 00:14:29,367 --> 00:14:31,878 Like, those are the guys that I'm talking about, and I'm 477 00:14:31,878 --> 00:14:34,688 like, you would think that numerically your score is 478 00:14:34,688 --> 00:14:36,268 an F-minus at what you do. 479 00:14:36,478 --> 00:14:36,728 Yeah. 480 00:14:36,728 --> 00:14:38,117 You might wanna keep your opinions to yourself un- 481 00:14:38,148 --> 00:14:39,067 … until that number changes. 482 00:14:40,718 --> 00:14:40,998 Yeah. 483 00:14:41,148 --> 00:14:41,228 Nope. 484 00:14:41,648 --> 00:14:42,018 Yeah. 485 00:14:42,087 --> 00:14:43,748 They're just spouting, like, they're just running it through 486 00:14:43,748 --> 00:14:45,797 this engine that is essentially just a collection of their 487 00:14:45,798 --> 00:14:48,617 three worst experiences and pretending that that's fact. 488 00:14:48,867 --> 00:14:51,687 Nothing wrong with being wrong, except when you present it 489 00:14:51,687 --> 00:14:54,397 as fact and you help other people to make wrong decisions 490 00:14:54,417 --> 00:14:55,717 based on your wrong opinions. 491 00:14:55,728 --> 00:14:57,697 Yeah, and dude, and you don't realize you're doing it, right? 492 00:14:57,697 --> 00:14:57,727 Yeah. 493 00:14:57,727 --> 00:14:59,667 And if, if we expand that out a bit, like, there's, 494 00:14:59,837 --> 00:15:02,107 "Hey, I'm saying something categorically false, and 495 00:15:02,107 --> 00:15:03,037 I simply don't know it." 496 00:15:03,058 --> 00:15:05,827 Okay, happens all… I'm sure any of us have done that, right? 497 00:15:05,878 --> 00:15:06,248 Yeah. 498 00:15:06,427 --> 00:15:08,868 But at the time, we thought we had the right 499 00:15:08,868 --> 00:15:10,767 information, turned out to be the wrong information. 500 00:15:10,777 --> 00:15:10,807 Sure. 501 00:15:10,817 --> 00:15:11,218 Guess what? 502 00:15:11,227 --> 00:15:12,517 Literally just described all startups. 503 00:15:13,148 --> 00:15:17,048 However, however, when you're an advisor, and hopefully you've 504 00:15:17,048 --> 00:15:20,177 got a little bit of experience under your belt, you should be 505 00:15:20,177 --> 00:15:22,297 able to lead with that, right? 506 00:15:22,308 --> 00:15:22,328 Yeah. 507 00:15:22,477 --> 00:15:25,268 "Hey, here's why I think what you just said, the product you 508 00:15:25,277 --> 00:15:28,017 th- you're about to launch, could have a problem, but 509 00:15:28,017 --> 00:15:30,827 only the market will tell us. I have an opinion and a 510 00:15:30,827 --> 00:15:34,217 forecast, but the market will give us the verdict," right? 511 00:15:34,247 --> 00:15:35,677 Like, that's the fact, not me. 512 00:15:35,967 --> 00:15:38,707 Ry, when you and I advise… Actually, for those of you 513 00:15:38,707 --> 00:15:41,577 that don't know, Ry and I run a workshop every Wednesday on 514 00:15:41,577 --> 00:15:44,747 startups.com where we do pitch decks in one workshop, we do 515 00:15:44,778 --> 00:15:47,777 funding, like how do you, you know, raise money, and one 516 00:15:47,778 --> 00:15:52,107 of the things that we always frame our advice with is, "Hey, 517 00:15:52,107 --> 00:15:54,107 today I'm gonna teach you how to build pitch decks," right? 518 00:15:54,107 --> 00:15:56,827 We use a very specific formula, but guess what? 519 00:15:57,278 --> 00:16:01,337 People have raised trillions of dollars without our help. 520 00:16:01,497 --> 00:16:01,827 Without 521 00:16:01,827 --> 00:16:02,017 our help, yeah. 522 00:16:02,017 --> 00:16:03,758 So clearly this is not the only way to do it. 523 00:16:04,177 --> 00:16:06,087 Frigging self-awareness 101, dude. 524 00:16:06,187 --> 00:16:06,387 Yeah. 525 00:16:06,387 --> 00:16:06,667 Right? 526 00:16:07,098 --> 00:16:08,457 Because there's a lot of people that are gonna be in 527 00:16:08,457 --> 00:16:10,567 the audience that are like, "Yeah, but the way that 528 00:16:10,587 --> 00:16:13,118 you're framing the market size isn't the way I wanna do it. 529 00:16:13,127 --> 00:16:16,227 I wanna do TAM, SAM, SOM." And my whole point is, "Hey, 530 00:16:16,227 --> 00:16:18,867 I'm pretty good at this, like, and I've done this a lot and I 531 00:16:18,867 --> 00:16:23,327 have experience, but it doesn't mean my word is fact," right? 532 00:16:23,757 --> 00:16:23,877 Yeah. 533 00:16:24,017 --> 00:16:25,858 And people are surprised when they hear it, right? 534 00:16:25,887 --> 00:16:27,297 They're surprised- Yeah … someone would, 535 00:16:27,337 --> 00:16:29,487 like, just say, "By the way, maybe I'm not right." 536 00:16:30,819 --> 00:16:30,959 H- heaven 537 00:16:30,959 --> 00:16:31,170 forbid. 538 00:16:31,170 --> 00:16:33,870 You know, something that's really funny about everything 539 00:16:33,870 --> 00:16:37,360 we talk about here is that none of it is new. 540 00:16:37,589 --> 00:16:38,910 Everything you're dealing with 541 00:16:38,910 --> 00:16:39,100 right 542 00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:42,959 now has been done a thousand times before you, which means 543 00:16:42,959 --> 00:16:43,979 the answer already exists. 544 00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:45,910 You may just not know it, but that's okay. 545 00:16:46,229 --> 00:16:48,049 That's kind of what we're here to do. 546 00:16:48,079 --> 00:16:50,719 We talk about this stuff on the show, but we actually 547 00:16:50,719 --> 00:16:54,799 solve these problems all day long at groups.startups.com. 548 00:16:54,930 --> 00:16:58,170 So if any of this sounds familiar, stop guessing 549 00:16:58,239 --> 00:16:59,219 about what to do. 550 00:16:59,469 --> 00:17:02,609 Let us just give you the answers to the test and be done with it. 551 00:17:03,359 --> 00:17:05,609 Going back to those sessions, so when you're delivering 552 00:17:05,609 --> 00:17:07,819 info, I'm answering questions about pitch decks and stuff 553 00:17:07,820 --> 00:17:08,740 in the background in the chat. 554 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,149 If you scan down through that, you're gonna see 555 00:17:12,169 --> 00:17:15,659 three words consistently used in my feedback. 556 00:17:16,059 --> 00:17:17,050 You might consider. 557 00:17:17,210 --> 00:17:17,510 Yeah. 558 00:17:17,519 --> 00:17:18,700 You might consider. 559 00:17:18,890 --> 00:17:20,839 Consider this, consider that, right? 560 00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:23,989 Because I'm not telling them, "Rewrite your pitch deck. 561 00:17:23,999 --> 00:17:26,439 Rewrite your problem statement and say exactly this." Right. 562 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:27,849 You might consider throwing a stat in. 563 00:17:27,859 --> 00:17:29,649 You might consider making this numeric. 564 00:17:29,649 --> 00:17:32,179 You might consider using dollars instead of time, right? 565 00:17:32,179 --> 00:17:32,409 Yeah. 566 00:17:32,409 --> 00:17:34,989 You also might not, and that's okay, too. 567 00:17:35,129 --> 00:17:35,470 You bet. 568 00:17:35,470 --> 00:17:35,659 Right? 569 00:17:35,659 --> 00:17:40,119 Because I am absolutely trying to avoid this parent-child 570 00:17:40,159 --> 00:17:44,850 type relationship where it's not just the confidence that I 571 00:17:44,879 --> 00:17:47,780 apply to what I'm telling you, but there's this, like, there's 572 00:17:47,780 --> 00:17:50,700 also this implied punishment for not obeying, right? 573 00:17:50,710 --> 00:17:52,699 Like, if I, I tell you not to touch the hot stove, you 574 00:17:52,699 --> 00:17:54,509 touch the hot stove, you're gonna get burned, right? 575 00:17:54,530 --> 00:17:54,740 Right. 576 00:17:54,740 --> 00:17:56,109 You better do what I said. 577 00:17:56,149 --> 00:17:56,449 Right. 578 00:17:56,489 --> 00:17:56,919 Right? 579 00:17:57,159 --> 00:17:57,749 And it's awful. 580 00:17:57,750 --> 00:17:59,809 You know, the other thing, this one just burns me. 581 00:17:59,820 --> 00:18:00,239 All right? 582 00:18:00,239 --> 00:18:01,099 This one burns me. 583 00:18:01,399 --> 00:18:03,269 So one of the last times I saw this was a pitch deck 584 00:18:03,269 --> 00:18:04,699 competition, so the fact that you brought this up at 585 00:18:04,699 --> 00:18:05,629 the beginning was perfect. 586 00:18:06,259 --> 00:18:11,146 Somebody did push back on some of the advice And holy shit, 587 00:18:11,156 --> 00:18:14,745 have I never seen anybody get haughty and pouty faster. 588 00:18:15,076 --> 00:18:17,726 Like, arms crossed, leaned back, frowning. 589 00:18:17,806 --> 00:18:18,056 Yeah. 590 00:18:18,686 --> 00:18:18,896 Yeah. 591 00:18:19,176 --> 00:18:19,656 How dare you? 592 00:18:19,656 --> 00:18:20,156 Oh, it was amazing. 593 00:18:20,156 --> 00:18:23,026 As if their disobedience was some kind of betrayal, 594 00:18:23,026 --> 00:18:26,456 as if this person owes you anything other than the 30 595 00:18:26,466 --> 00:18:28,265 seconds they already wasted listening to your dumb ass. 596 00:18:28,326 --> 00:18:30,786 We have a thing internally where folks that are on 597 00:18:30,786 --> 00:18:33,325 the platform, any one of us are helping out, right? 598 00:18:33,376 --> 00:18:35,595 And, you know, some of us, some of you i- in the 599 00:18:35,595 --> 00:18:38,046 audience, you listen to us with Ed Kang, you know, 600 00:18:38,046 --> 00:18:39,305 our chief strategy officer. 601 00:18:39,316 --> 00:18:39,346 Yep. 602 00:18:39,346 --> 00:18:40,745 And, and Ed's awesome. 603 00:18:41,005 --> 00:18:43,085 Just like the rest of us, he has, you know, big opinions 604 00:18:43,096 --> 00:18:43,876 about things, and he's… 605 00:18:43,975 --> 00:18:45,785 Just like the rest of us, he's not afraid to share them. 606 00:18:46,245 --> 00:18:50,226 So invariably, we'll get a, um, we'll get a startup that's 607 00:18:50,226 --> 00:18:53,076 met with two of the three of us, and let's say it's me 608 00:18:53,076 --> 00:18:55,506 and Ed, and they're talking about pitch decks, and they'll 609 00:18:55,506 --> 00:18:58,506 say, "Well, Ed said something totally different than what 610 00:18:58,506 --> 00:18:58,936 you're saying." Uh-huh. 611 00:18:58,945 --> 00:19:02,535 Intention when they say that is, "I've caught you," right? 612 00:19:02,585 --> 00:19:02,725 Yeah. 613 00:19:02,725 --> 00:19:06,525 You know, "Ed said use A. You said use B. Ah, I've 614 00:19:06,525 --> 00:19:07,330 caught you guys." Uh-huh. 615 00:19:07,330 --> 00:19:07,423 Yeah. 616 00:19:07,423 --> 00:19:10,805 And, and I was like, "That's a feature, not a bug, man," right? 617 00:19:10,815 --> 00:19:10,835 Yeah. 618 00:19:10,885 --> 00:19:14,065 I was like, if you're gonna be in this business, you have 619 00:19:14,065 --> 00:19:17,695 to be able to hear different perspectives, and it's your job 620 00:19:18,335 --> 00:19:21,445 to synthesize those perspectives and determine which you wanna 621 00:19:21,445 --> 00:19:23,126 use, A, B, or a combination. 622 00:19:23,355 --> 00:19:26,075 So Will, right before the podcast today, I was on 623 00:19:26,076 --> 00:19:29,446 office hours, and during that office hours, this came up. 624 00:19:29,476 --> 00:19:33,136 Now, this founder was actually very, very aware and enlightened 625 00:19:33,136 --> 00:19:34,425 about why this was so valuable. 626 00:19:34,595 --> 00:19:34,775 Yeah. 627 00:19:34,775 --> 00:19:35,805 It was actually all three of us. 628 00:19:36,006 --> 00:19:38,645 So this individual has talked to you, me, and Ed- Oh, wow … and 629 00:19:38,646 --> 00:19:41,085 came back and said, "So you guys all had very different 630 00:19:41,095 --> 00:19:43,795 opinions about a couple different things in the deck, 631 00:19:44,165 --> 00:19:45,355 and that's been really helpful. 632 00:19:45,355 --> 00:19:46,915 It's been really valuable to have that perspective." And 633 00:19:46,915 --> 00:19:47,926 I was like, "Oh, thank God. 634 00:19:47,955 --> 00:19:49,745 Thank God you see and hear this," right? 635 00:19:49,785 --> 00:19:51,115 Because here's the reality. 636 00:19:51,375 --> 00:19:53,375 Imagine you present it to the three of us, and you get 637 00:19:53,375 --> 00:19:54,185 three different opinions. 638 00:19:54,765 --> 00:19:57,636 Do you think somehow we're special or different? 639 00:19:57,945 --> 00:20:00,795 Do you think if you show it to 15 investors that 640 00:20:00,795 --> 00:20:03,006 somehow investors are all homogenous people- Yeah. 641 00:20:03,006 --> 00:20:04,355 just because they wear the same- Just one answer 642 00:20:04,355 --> 00:20:05,725 … damn Patagonia vest? 643 00:20:05,925 --> 00:20:07,825 They don't all have the same, uh, opinions, right? 644 00:20:08,155 --> 00:20:09,666 You're gonna get 15 different opinions. 645 00:20:09,666 --> 00:20:09,705 Right, right. 646 00:20:09,936 --> 00:20:11,625 That is the point in all of this, right? 647 00:20:11,646 --> 00:20:14,245 There's so much difference in how it's going to be 648 00:20:14,245 --> 00:20:16,755 approached, how it's gonna be perceived based on what 649 00:20:16,765 --> 00:20:19,106 their own experience is, based on what their own bias is. 650 00:20:19,285 --> 00:20:19,455 Yeah. 651 00:20:19,465 --> 00:20:21,766 All of those things come to the table every time. 652 00:20:22,035 --> 00:20:22,195 Well, 653 00:20:22,336 --> 00:20:22,465 let's- All right? 654 00:20:22,465 --> 00:20:23,386 So you're gonna get it in advice. 655 00:20:23,396 --> 00:20:24,645 You're gonna get it from investors. 656 00:20:24,646 --> 00:20:26,176 You're gonna get it everywhere. 657 00:20:26,176 --> 00:20:29,916 And- And as you said, it's your job to weigh all of that 658 00:20:29,946 --> 00:20:33,655 against your own compass- Yes … and figure out what 659 00:20:33,655 --> 00:20:34,666 the direction is, right? 660 00:20:34,815 --> 00:20:36,816 And that's not us soft-pedaling our advice. 661 00:20:36,825 --> 00:20:38,256 It's not us saying, "Well, you gotta go figure it 662 00:20:38,256 --> 00:20:39,905 out." That is the job. 663 00:20:39,915 --> 00:20:39,935 Yeah. 664 00:20:40,025 --> 00:20:40,995 That is the job. 665 00:20:41,336 --> 00:20:44,635 And when I deliver that, you know, little PSA that, you 666 00:20:44,635 --> 00:20:47,395 know, our job is to provide perspectives, your job is to 667 00:20:47,396 --> 00:20:51,856 choose one, I'm 100% sure in almost every case it's the first 668 00:20:51,866 --> 00:20:54,656 time someone has told a founder that they have that ownership. 669 00:20:55,406 --> 00:20:55,896 Right 670 00:20:55,896 --> 00:20:56,096 Right? 671 00:20:56,136 --> 00:20:58,946 Like, and again, I wanna bring this back to advising. 672 00:20:59,306 --> 00:21:02,416 Part of advising is having the self-awareness of knowing that 673 00:21:02,416 --> 00:21:03,786 your words carry weight, okay? 674 00:21:03,926 --> 00:21:06,916 Another part of it is knowing that your perspective 675 00:21:07,165 --> 00:21:09,416 is a perspective, right? 676 00:21:09,536 --> 00:21:12,066 And if there's another perspective, your job isn't 677 00:21:12,076 --> 00:21:13,605 to stamp that perspective out. 678 00:21:13,605 --> 00:21:14,765 Now, you can argue your case. 679 00:21:14,765 --> 00:21:16,005 That's just normal, right? 680 00:21:16,435 --> 00:21:19,565 But what happens is the advisor hears a counter-advice 681 00:21:19,566 --> 00:21:21,366 they've gotten elsewhere, and their immediate feedback, 682 00:21:21,366 --> 00:21:22,686 'cause this is human, right? 683 00:21:22,935 --> 00:21:25,575 Is, "Well, here's why they're so wrong." Okay, but that's not 684 00:21:25,576 --> 00:21:28,045 the same as saying, "There might be some merit to what they had 685 00:21:28,045 --> 00:21:30,355 to say, but here's the merit to what I have to say," right? 686 00:21:30,365 --> 00:21:30,525 Yeah. 687 00:21:30,566 --> 00:21:31,126 You decide. 688 00:21:31,476 --> 00:21:35,505 Because a bad advisor is not okay with being wrong. 689 00:21:35,895 --> 00:21:36,916 Not that you're trying to be wrong. 690 00:21:36,916 --> 00:21:37,325 Right. 691 00:21:37,325 --> 00:21:39,115 But when you find out that, like, you know, maybe 692 00:21:39,115 --> 00:21:41,755 you are, quote, right, but someone went another 693 00:21:41,755 --> 00:21:43,055 direction, you get offended. 694 00:21:43,365 --> 00:21:43,705 Yeah. 695 00:21:43,805 --> 00:21:43,935 No, 696 00:21:43,935 --> 00:21:46,435 that's, that was the one- That's 697 00:21:47,075 --> 00:21:47,215 just straight-up ego. 698 00:21:47,215 --> 00:21:47,235 Yeah. 699 00:21:47,235 --> 00:21:47,245 Yeah. 700 00:21:47,245 --> 00:21:47,265 Right? 701 00:21:47,265 --> 00:21:48,765 It's, it's hard to watch, right? 702 00:21:49,185 --> 00:21:50,655 I see it in board interactions- Oh, yeah … 'cause what ends 703 00:21:50,656 --> 00:21:53,955 up happening is an advisor wants to believe, you know, a board 704 00:21:53,955 --> 00:21:57,785 member wants to believe that the value of their direction 705 00:21:57,906 --> 00:22:01,656 is so strong that you will just take it at face value, and by 706 00:22:01,755 --> 00:22:04,165 way of that, you're validating the person giving it, right? 707 00:22:04,165 --> 00:22:04,185 Yeah. 708 00:22:04,185 --> 00:22:07,705 So if, if I'm on your board and I say, "We should go with, 709 00:22:07,745 --> 00:22:10,125 with product A," and you're like, "Well, if you said 710 00:22:10,126 --> 00:22:13,725 product A, it's product A," I feel like my value has been, 711 00:22:13,825 --> 00:22:15,155 you know, rewarded, right? 712 00:22:15,345 --> 00:22:17,755 If you say, "Okay, I heard product A, but I'm going with 713 00:22:17,755 --> 00:22:22,275 product B," my ego says, "Well, that hurts my ego," right? 714 00:22:22,505 --> 00:22:24,815 And so I'm gonna argue, uh, more heavily. 715 00:22:25,105 --> 00:22:27,165 And again, it's not that, that you wouldn't want 716 00:22:27,165 --> 00:22:28,145 me to have conviction. 717 00:22:28,575 --> 00:22:32,055 What you don't want is the advisor that just can't stand 718 00:22:32,065 --> 00:22:35,565 being wrong, or a coworker or a spouse or, you know, whatever. 719 00:22:35,565 --> 00:22:37,885 Like, just- Anybody … that just wants to be right so badly. 720 00:22:37,885 --> 00:22:39,385 Who loves to sit next to a narcissist? 721 00:22:39,395 --> 00:22:39,966 No one. 722 00:22:40,126 --> 00:22:44,896 Puts the advisor in a power position that I don't think, 723 00:22:44,906 --> 00:22:47,546 like I said, I don't think a lot of advisors understand the 724 00:22:47,546 --> 00:22:48,896 weight of that power, right? 725 00:22:48,985 --> 00:22:49,205 Yeah. 726 00:22:49,245 --> 00:22:51,725 And part of this, you know, part of this for the advisor 727 00:22:52,086 --> 00:22:53,485 is being able to look inward. 728 00:22:53,545 --> 00:22:55,695 The caption here is how to be a terrible advisor, right? 729 00:22:55,705 --> 00:22:55,725 Yeah. 730 00:22:56,105 --> 00:22:58,705 A great way to be a terrible advisor is not to 731 00:22:58,705 --> 00:23:01,585 recognize your own bias. 732 00:23:01,675 --> 00:23:02,445 Your own bias. 733 00:23:02,455 --> 00:23:02,475 Yeah. 734 00:23:02,485 --> 00:23:02,665 Right? 735 00:23:02,665 --> 00:23:06,735 And your bias is a composite of your life experiences, what 736 00:23:06,736 --> 00:23:08,226 worked, what didn't work, right? 737 00:23:08,226 --> 00:23:10,295 You know, your personal interactions with people. 738 00:23:10,645 --> 00:23:12,955 So for example, if you've raised capital three 739 00:23:12,956 --> 00:23:15,366 times, and every single time you've raised capital 740 00:23:15,385 --> 00:23:17,045 it's gone horribly, right? 741 00:23:17,055 --> 00:23:19,356 You had, like, blowups with your investors, like, you know, 742 00:23:19,356 --> 00:23:20,436 your co-founder had to split. 743 00:23:20,436 --> 00:23:22,435 Like, it's just always gone bad. 744 00:23:22,766 --> 00:23:26,036 Chances are your advice is gonna be, "Don't raise capital." 745 00:23:26,365 --> 00:23:28,475 Now, of course, that's your bias, man. 746 00:23:28,706 --> 00:23:30,345 The problem is when you don't recognize it. 747 00:23:31,094 --> 00:23:33,524 Here's one other example, and we'll ki- unpack it a bit more. 748 00:23:33,524 --> 00:23:38,124 But if I'm that pitch deck local yokel, right, in Anytown, USA, 749 00:23:38,554 --> 00:23:41,534 and I'm about to tell you what the market is for investing in 750 00:23:41,534 --> 00:23:45,684 your idea- Yeah … and I am not connected to the national 751 00:23:45,684 --> 00:23:47,963 investment circle, okay? 752 00:23:48,214 --> 00:23:49,933 In other words, all I do are local deals. 753 00:23:49,964 --> 00:23:51,193 I'm part of an angel group. 754 00:23:51,193 --> 00:23:52,423 I'm otherwise playing golf. 755 00:23:52,474 --> 00:23:52,664 Yeah. 756 00:23:52,714 --> 00:23:52,964 Right? 757 00:23:53,193 --> 00:23:56,134 But holy shit, do I love giving big opinions in my 758 00:23:56,154 --> 00:23:58,583 Anytown, USA- Yeah … because I, you know, I sold a bunch 759 00:23:58,583 --> 00:23:59,753 of real estate 20 years ago. 760 00:24:00,144 --> 00:24:02,513 And that's the bias, right? 761 00:24:02,513 --> 00:24:05,564 Like, my bias is what I happen to know in this 762 00:24:05,583 --> 00:24:07,284 Anytown, USA, right? 763 00:24:07,333 --> 00:24:07,523 Yeah. 764 00:24:07,624 --> 00:24:09,253 I'm not on the national stage, dude. 765 00:24:09,273 --> 00:24:11,583 I'm not doing top quartile deals, right? 766 00:24:11,583 --> 00:24:11,913 Right. 767 00:24:12,293 --> 00:24:15,603 So it doesn't even occur to me that maybe I'm not the best 768 00:24:15,613 --> 00:24:17,793 person to provide this feedback. 769 00:24:17,813 --> 00:24:20,143 It actually, my bias goes totally lost. 770 00:24:20,234 --> 00:24:20,534 Yeah. 771 00:24:20,554 --> 00:24:23,323 The bias comes in, and, like, you wanna make that advisor 772 00:24:23,324 --> 00:24:24,353 even a little bit worse? 773 00:24:24,543 --> 00:24:26,994 Now have them, instead of grading it on the quality of the 774 00:24:26,994 --> 00:24:28,783 advice and whether it actually drives an outcome or not. 775 00:24:28,804 --> 00:24:30,434 Again, I wanna, I wanna get your opinion on this in a 776 00:24:30,434 --> 00:24:32,583 second, because consequence is something I think we need 777 00:24:32,583 --> 00:24:33,633 to bring into this discussion. 778 00:24:33,923 --> 00:24:36,733 But bad advisors will then make, make the bad advisor 779 00:24:36,734 --> 00:24:39,483 even worse because they start to grade themselves 780 00:24:39,823 --> 00:24:41,743 on your obedience, right? 781 00:24:41,743 --> 00:24:41,904 That's fair, yeah. 782 00:24:41,904 --> 00:24:44,583 Did the founder do what I told them to do, right? 783 00:24:44,583 --> 00:24:44,793 Yeah. 784 00:24:44,823 --> 00:24:46,623 That's what… Because you said, like, you know, well, 785 00:24:46,624 --> 00:24:48,593 I guess it's path A. We're gonna go path A, right? 786 00:24:48,593 --> 00:24:48,738 Yeah. 787 00:24:48,738 --> 00:24:51,603 Then they grade that as that was well-delivered advice. 788 00:24:51,704 --> 00:24:51,864 Yep. 789 00:24:51,874 --> 00:24:52,214 Why? 790 00:24:52,443 --> 00:24:53,514 Because they did what I said. 791 00:24:53,524 --> 00:24:53,554 Yep. 792 00:24:53,563 --> 00:24:54,234 Did it work? 793 00:24:54,243 --> 00:24:56,044 Who cares? 794 00:24:56,594 --> 00:24:56,963 Second order 795 00:24:57,393 --> 00:24:57,763 problem. 796 00:24:57,774 --> 00:24:57,964 And, and part of 797 00:24:57,964 --> 00:25:01,313 that is because there rarely is there any consequence, right? 798 00:25:01,313 --> 00:25:01,323 Correct. 799 00:25:01,323 --> 00:25:01,473 Right. 800 00:25:01,473 --> 00:25:04,204 They don't own the consequence, and so I think this is where, 801 00:25:04,204 --> 00:25:06,544 like, watching people with really strongly held opinions, 802 00:25:06,544 --> 00:25:09,433 it's easy to have a strongly held opinion when you're 803 00:25:09,433 --> 00:25:12,803 not the one who has to live through the outcome of that 804 00:25:12,804 --> 00:25:14,753 opinion being applied, right? 805 00:25:14,763 --> 00:25:15,003 Right, 806 00:25:15,003 --> 00:25:15,223 right. 807 00:25:15,223 --> 00:25:16,744 Founders sure as shit do, right? 808 00:25:16,744 --> 00:25:20,463 If we pick path A, and path A is an absolute train wreck, 809 00:25:20,693 --> 00:25:23,843 we're the ones who have to pick up the train cars afterwards. 810 00:25:23,963 --> 00:25:25,693 The advisor, the investor, whoever it was that gave that 811 00:25:25,693 --> 00:25:30,033 advice doesn't necessarily have, in some cases, even awareness 812 00:25:30,073 --> 00:25:31,163 of what happened, right? 813 00:25:31,164 --> 00:25:32,973 It depends on how they're attached, because not 814 00:25:32,973 --> 00:25:35,633 all startup advisors are, like, permanently 815 00:25:35,633 --> 00:25:36,583 attached to the company. 816 00:25:36,583 --> 00:25:36,914 Right. 817 00:25:36,914 --> 00:25:37,214 Right? 818 00:25:37,214 --> 00:25:39,233 They're just people who are giving advice. 819 00:25:39,503 --> 00:25:39,723 Right. 820 00:25:39,733 --> 00:25:40,663 And it's crazy dangerous. 821 00:25:40,823 --> 00:25:42,753 I've always said this about people who are critics, 822 00:25:43,233 --> 00:25:44,554 and I said it's the easiest job in the world. 823 00:25:44,554 --> 00:25:44,574 Yeah. 824 00:25:45,024 --> 00:25:47,354 Because if you're wrong, it doesn't matter because, 825 00:25:47,354 --> 00:25:48,683 you know, I was proven, I, I guess I was wrong. 826 00:25:48,953 --> 00:25:52,053 But if you're right, you will never shut up about it, right? 827 00:25:52,313 --> 00:25:54,913 So in other words, if you're a critic of Uber- Yeah … back 828 00:25:54,914 --> 00:25:56,863 in the day, okay, here's what you would've said. 829 00:25:57,173 --> 00:25:59,594 You'd have said, "This company is just totally 830 00:25:59,594 --> 00:26:00,734 underwritten by VC. 831 00:26:00,983 --> 00:26:02,554 It has no real business model. 832 00:26:02,744 --> 00:26:03,874 It's absolutely gonna fail." Yeah. 833 00:26:03,953 --> 00:26:07,663 And no lack of people held sa- said opinion, okay? 834 00:26:08,063 --> 00:26:10,163 And there was a bunch of data at the time that kind 835 00:26:10,164 --> 00:26:11,643 of looked like it might be pointing that way. 836 00:26:12,043 --> 00:26:12,463 Mm-hmm. 837 00:26:12,593 --> 00:26:15,313 Now, Uber ends up going on, have a wildly successful 838 00:26:15,313 --> 00:26:17,603 IPO and building really a great company, okay? 839 00:26:17,854 --> 00:26:18,873 Here's what's not happening. 840 00:26:19,183 --> 00:26:22,104 None of those critics are writing this tell-all blog 841 00:26:22,104 --> 00:26:23,983 post about how wrong they were. 842 00:26:24,203 --> 00:26:27,783 But I guarantee if Uber had tanked, it'd be the 843 00:26:27,783 --> 00:26:28,603 first post they write. 844 00:26:29,586 --> 00:26:30,015 Oh, yeah. 845 00:26:30,015 --> 00:26:30,245 Yeah. 846 00:26:30,316 --> 00:26:31,535 They'd have written three of them. 847 00:26:31,606 --> 00:26:33,936 Revisiting my opinion from 15 years ago- Never shop 848 00:26:33,936 --> 00:26:35,265 by- … when I was still right 849 00:26:35,505 --> 00:26:39,426 the only investor that I've ever seen do this absolutely 850 00:26:39,436 --> 00:26:41,635 beautifully, and I've mentioned this once before, 851 00:26:42,095 --> 00:26:43,586 is Bessemer Venture Partners. 852 00:26:43,796 --> 00:26:46,395 Bessemer, on their site, has something called 853 00:26:46,396 --> 00:26:47,726 the anti-portfolio. 854 00:26:48,105 --> 00:26:48,206 I know. 855 00:26:48,206 --> 00:26:50,835 And I thought it was one of the greatest- 856 00:26:50,846 --> 00:26:51,566 It's beautiful 857 00:26:51,566 --> 00:26:54,548 … lessons in humility And it basically said, "Here's all the 858 00:26:54,548 --> 00:26:57,128 people that have been through our doors that we passed on," 859 00:26:57,418 --> 00:26:59,638 and it's like Apple and, you know, you know all these places. 860 00:26:59,838 --> 00:27:03,138 So just to be clear, we say no to great companies too, right? 861 00:27:03,167 --> 00:27:03,417 Like- 862 00:27:03,458 --> 00:27:03,518 Yeah. 863 00:27:03,718 --> 00:27:04,798 It's such a nice message. 864 00:27:04,798 --> 00:27:06,487 I mean, it's a beautiful exercise in humility, but it's 865 00:27:06,488 --> 00:27:09,488 also, it's also a wonderful message to all the founders that 866 00:27:09,507 --> 00:27:13,218 they said no to, which is like, "This isn't a qualitative call 867 00:27:13,237 --> 00:27:14,327 about- Yeah … your company." 868 00:27:14,337 --> 00:27:14,567 Yep, 869 00:27:14,718 --> 00:27:14,898 yep. 870 00:27:14,907 --> 00:27:17,618 "This is about whether we were willing to put money into it 871 00:27:17,637 --> 00:27:21,057 at the time based on everything else that was going on," right? 872 00:27:21,057 --> 00:27:23,438 "It's not about you, it's about our decision." 873 00:27:23,528 --> 00:27:25,497 And by the way, you know, when you look at something 874 00:27:25,497 --> 00:27:28,237 like Uber, uh, when they were raising, everything about 875 00:27:28,238 --> 00:27:31,217 that, or Airbnb was in the same category, everything about that 876 00:27:31,218 --> 00:27:32,787 deal looked horrible, right? 877 00:27:32,788 --> 00:27:34,918 Just the liability- Yeah … around that, like the risk 878 00:27:34,918 --> 00:27:37,678 and everything else like that, I would have never invested. 879 00:27:37,678 --> 00:27:40,088 And I'm also not an investor, so like, but this is why. 880 00:27:40,288 --> 00:27:43,228 Because you can look at something one of two ways. 881 00:27:43,228 --> 00:27:45,067 You can be the optimist and say, "Well, anything 882 00:27:45,067 --> 00:27:46,417 can work, you know, with, with enough something." 883 00:27:46,417 --> 00:27:46,437 Yeah. 884 00:27:46,847 --> 00:27:48,947 And the other is, "Everything sucks, everything's hard, 885 00:27:48,987 --> 00:27:51,188 nothing's proven." Well, that's fundamentally true too. 886 00:27:51,367 --> 00:27:54,008 And so most people said no to Travis and Garrett, 887 00:27:54,047 --> 00:27:55,537 you know, when they were raising for Uber, right? 888 00:27:55,538 --> 00:27:56,298 Most people said no. 889 00:27:56,407 --> 00:27:56,427 Yeah. 890 00:27:56,827 --> 00:27:58,147 And frankly, they would have had, you know, the, 891 00:27:58,177 --> 00:27:59,947 again, this is their advice, uh, their opinion. 892 00:28:00,317 --> 00:28:02,417 They would have had a very strong argument, but 893 00:28:02,418 --> 00:28:03,618 it didn't make it true. 894 00:28:05,157 --> 00:28:06,857 It didn't make it true, dude. 895 00:28:06,867 --> 00:28:07,108 Sure didn't. 896 00:28:07,547 --> 00:28:10,768 And so if we're to kind of zoom out a bit, I think you touched 897 00:28:10,768 --> 00:28:14,157 on this a moment ago, you've got this great responsibility. 898 00:28:14,317 --> 00:28:14,707 Super. 899 00:28:14,857 --> 00:28:17,278 Where you're in a position, whether you're an investor, 900 00:28:17,278 --> 00:28:19,158 a startup advisor, you know, whatever you are, to 901 00:28:19,168 --> 00:28:21,338 all of these people you're about to give advice to. 902 00:28:21,647 --> 00:28:25,418 If you don't recognize the gravity of that responsibility, 903 00:28:25,497 --> 00:28:27,237 you said it a moment ago, like, and I want to unpack this a 904 00:28:27,238 --> 00:28:28,698 little bit, the consequence. 905 00:28:29,007 --> 00:28:31,007 You ruin everything they could have been, which for 906 00:28:31,007 --> 00:28:31,778 a startup is everything. 907 00:28:31,927 --> 00:28:32,197 Yeah. 908 00:28:32,287 --> 00:28:33,597 And I think they don't realize that. 909 00:28:33,598 --> 00:28:35,287 Again, it's, it's a self-awareness thing. 910 00:28:35,738 --> 00:28:38,787 And if you are aware of that, you will likely 911 00:28:38,787 --> 00:28:39,957 speak differently, right? 912 00:28:39,957 --> 00:28:40,518 If you think- 913 00:28:40,518 --> 00:28:40,818 Yeah 914 00:28:40,948 --> 00:28:43,287 … okay, off the cuff, what will make me sound smart right now? 915 00:28:43,287 --> 00:28:44,307 What do I think I know? 916 00:28:44,308 --> 00:28:45,297 What can I tell them? 917 00:28:45,727 --> 00:28:49,167 Without considering, and what will they go do with this? 918 00:28:49,177 --> 00:28:50,077 What are the potential downsides? 919 00:28:50,077 --> 00:28:52,757 Like, like, I talked about a certification at the beginning, 920 00:28:52,757 --> 00:28:55,217 but at least I think as a startup advisor, and I know, I 921 00:28:55,217 --> 00:28:57,768 know you adhere to this, it's the Hippocratic oath, right? 922 00:28:57,768 --> 00:28:58,937 It's first do no harm. 923 00:28:58,948 --> 00:28:59,548 Do no harm. 924 00:28:59,637 --> 00:29:00,057 Right? 925 00:29:00,157 --> 00:29:03,288 Is there anything I can say in here that might 926 00:29:03,377 --> 00:29:06,627 mislead this person, that might cause them harm? 927 00:29:06,638 --> 00:29:09,997 And if there is, then I need to be very, very careful 928 00:29:10,177 --> 00:29:11,427 where I tread with this. 929 00:29:11,907 --> 00:29:15,348 Because you and I do have a consequence to this, and I think 930 00:29:15,348 --> 00:29:17,568 that's part of what makes us amazing at this, is because we 931 00:29:17,568 --> 00:29:18,627 do have consequence to this. 932 00:29:18,657 --> 00:29:18,807 Yep. 933 00:29:18,817 --> 00:29:22,607 This is not just something that we do randomly when called 934 00:29:22,608 --> 00:29:24,137 upon at a startup meetup. 935 00:29:24,137 --> 00:29:26,167 This is what you and I do day in, day out, right? 936 00:29:26,177 --> 00:29:26,377 Right. 937 00:29:26,377 --> 00:29:28,807 So we are taking some time to roast our own profession today 938 00:29:29,138 --> 00:29:31,588 because we take it so seriously, because there are consequences. 939 00:29:31,787 --> 00:29:34,987 When there is no direct consequence, it's really easy to 940 00:29:34,987 --> 00:29:37,957 just say, "Well, here's what I think," without couching it as, 941 00:29:37,977 --> 00:29:39,017 "Here's what I think," right? 942 00:29:39,017 --> 00:29:39,027 Right. 943 00:29:39,027 --> 00:29:41,017 You present it as, "Here's what I know. Here's what 944 00:29:41,017 --> 00:29:43,127 you should do, and there's probably a consequence if 945 00:29:43,127 --> 00:29:44,218 you don't do what I said." 946 00:29:44,617 --> 00:29:44,857 Yeah. 947 00:29:45,422 --> 00:29:47,992 Because i- in the same way that, you know, you were saying that, 948 00:29:48,062 --> 00:29:49,892 you know, a lot of, you know, these, the critics don't go 949 00:29:49,892 --> 00:29:53,482 back and, and analyze or agonize over when they were wrong. 950 00:29:53,862 --> 00:29:55,081 Do you know who does? 951 00:29:55,736 --> 00:29:57,756 Every startup founder who's heard a piece of 952 00:29:57,816 --> 00:30:00,036 advice they didn't act on that they should have- 953 00:30:00,146 --> 00:30:02,326 Yep … or acted on something that they shouldn't have- 954 00:30:02,426 --> 00:30:02,816 Yes 955 00:30:03,186 --> 00:30:05,595 … every single one of them, and they go, "Oh, man." And 956 00:30:05,596 --> 00:30:08,015 that leads to even biased action because then they're 957 00:30:08,016 --> 00:30:09,506 like, "Okay, the next time somebody tells me what I 958 00:30:09,506 --> 00:30:11,006 should do, I should do it." 959 00:30:11,615 --> 00:30:15,756 In my very first VC pitch, I'm 19 years old, right? 960 00:30:16,025 --> 00:30:17,305 I didn't even know what VC was. 961 00:30:17,335 --> 00:30:18,970 I actually- Yeah, I was gonna say … didn't 962 00:30:18,970 --> 00:30:19,196 know what room I was in. 963 00:30:19,206 --> 00:30:20,565 This is how green I was, right? 964 00:30:20,816 --> 00:30:23,405 But there- Yeah … just happened to be this kind of 965 00:30:23,406 --> 00:30:30,115 family office-ish VC that was in Columbus, Ohio in 1994, right? 966 00:30:30,115 --> 00:30:32,036 Which is hard to believe, right? 967 00:30:32,336 --> 00:30:34,026 And they weren't really doing tech deals, 'cause 968 00:30:34,026 --> 00:30:35,735 tech deals weren't a thing yet, so to speak. 969 00:30:35,965 --> 00:30:38,675 They were doing, like, manufacturing deals, right? 970 00:30:38,726 --> 00:30:40,535 So think of, like, family office, quasi private 971 00:30:40,535 --> 00:30:42,505 equity kind of masquerading as, as venture capital. 972 00:30:42,935 --> 00:30:47,976 But I'm in the meeting, and this senior guy is, he's this really 973 00:30:47,976 --> 00:30:52,315 smart, very well-educated, very smarmy, and, and when I 974 00:30:52,325 --> 00:30:54,875 say, he's a friend of mine, so be careful when I say this. 975 00:30:55,165 --> 00:30:58,236 Smarmy in that, like, I know so much more than you 976 00:30:58,236 --> 00:31:00,825 do, and I can't wait to share it with you, right? 977 00:31:00,876 --> 00:31:01,165 Uh-huh. 978 00:31:01,226 --> 00:31:03,546 And he roasts me. 979 00:31:03,946 --> 00:31:06,336 Absolutely ro- And it, it's like he was enjoying it. 980 00:31:06,336 --> 00:31:07,185 I think maybe he was. 981 00:31:07,285 --> 00:31:09,025 He and I- Yeah … again, became good friends 982 00:31:09,185 --> 00:31:09,876 l- later on in life. 983 00:31:09,876 --> 00:31:12,386 We even actually looked at, uh, co-founding a company together. 984 00:31:12,615 --> 00:31:14,995 But at the time, I'm this 19-year-old, 985 00:31:14,995 --> 00:31:16,956 pimply-faced dork, right? 986 00:31:17,365 --> 00:31:21,015 Getting roasted by this MBA/law degree guy, right? 987 00:31:21,065 --> 00:31:21,446 Yeah, yeah. 988 00:31:21,446 --> 00:31:22,505 On behalf of the VC. 989 00:31:23,086 --> 00:31:28,155 And in the end, all of the prognostication that he had for 990 00:31:28,156 --> 00:31:30,095 my business was patently wrong. 991 00:31:30,535 --> 00:31:31,296 Like at every level. 992 00:31:31,305 --> 00:31:31,525 Uh-huh. 993 00:31:31,645 --> 00:31:33,296 Every single thing- Yeah … he said was wrong. 994 00:31:33,296 --> 00:31:34,386 He's just standing there guessing. 995 00:31:34,656 --> 00:31:34,946 Yep. 996 00:31:34,955 --> 00:31:34,985 Yeah. 997 00:31:35,476 --> 00:31:37,645 And I walked away from that meeting being like, "Maybe 998 00:31:37,645 --> 00:31:40,535 I shouldn't be doing this." That would go on, you know, 999 00:31:40,615 --> 00:31:43,955 to be a company doing over 700 million in revenue, right? 1000 00:31:44,095 --> 00:31:47,135 Like, like, think of the weight of that- 1001 00:31:47,425 --> 00:31:47,615 Yeah 1002 00:31:47,635 --> 00:31:48,536 … feedback, dude. 1003 00:31:48,735 --> 00:31:50,405 Good thing you were a bad listener that day, huh? 1004 00:31:50,825 --> 00:31:52,975 We, uh, the s- story of my life, right? 1005 00:31:53,435 --> 00:31:55,346 I think when we talk about this, you know, with great advice 1006 00:31:55,346 --> 00:31:56,925 comes great responsibility, like, you know, the 1007 00:31:56,925 --> 00:31:58,185 Spider-Man quote, so to speak. 1008 00:31:58,485 --> 00:32:01,425 I think for a lot of advisors, and I'm speaking to the 1009 00:32:01,425 --> 00:32:02,745 advisors now, not the founders. 1010 00:32:03,025 --> 00:32:05,966 For a lot of advisors, you gotta step back, man. 1011 00:32:06,226 --> 00:32:08,405 You gotta step back, and you gotta realize that 1012 00:32:08,425 --> 00:32:11,146 being able to give people advice is a privilege. 1013 00:32:11,285 --> 00:32:12,515 I know it sounds like- Yeah … it's their 1014 00:32:12,515 --> 00:32:13,666 privilege to hear you. 1015 00:32:13,976 --> 00:32:16,205 But giving it, having, you know, earned that experience 1016 00:32:16,205 --> 00:32:17,825 and having an audience that's willing to take 1017 00:32:17,825 --> 00:32:19,505 your advice is a privilege. 1018 00:32:19,705 --> 00:32:20,935 And it's something- Yeah … that you have to 1019 00:32:20,955 --> 00:32:22,115 take with a lot of weight. 1020 00:32:22,465 --> 00:32:24,285 You have to take it with a lot of humility. 1021 00:32:24,375 --> 00:32:27,735 Advice with humility is the best possible advice. 1022 00:32:27,886 --> 00:32:30,486 Advice with optionality, you'll say, "You know, here's what 1023 00:32:30,486 --> 00:32:33,686 I would suggest, but I wanna, you know, just double-click 1024 00:32:33,686 --> 00:32:36,295 on the fact that it's your decision, not mine. I'm here 1025 00:32:36,295 --> 00:32:39,195 to inform a decision. You're here to make one." So I think 1026 00:32:39,196 --> 00:32:41,196 for all the advisors out there, please, by all means, 1027 00:32:41,196 --> 00:32:42,236 keep giving that advice. 1028 00:32:42,495 --> 00:32:45,755 But when you do, just once, look in the mirror and say to 1029 00:32:45,755 --> 00:32:49,852 yourself- I'm gonna give this advice with absolute humility. 1030 00:32:50,262 --> 00:32:53,382 I'm gonna preface that maybe I could be wrong, as much 1031 00:32:53,382 --> 00:32:55,741 as that's gonna hurt me, and deliver that advice in the 1032 00:32:55,742 --> 00:32:58,562 most honest way you've ever done in your entire life. 1033 00:32:59,982 --> 00:33:01,491 Overthinking your startup because you're going it alone? 1034 00:33:01,942 --> 00:33:03,732 You don't have to, and honestly, you shouldn't, 1035 00:33:04,042 --> 00:33:06,652 because instead, you can learn directly from peers 1036 00:33:06,652 --> 00:33:07,812 who have been in your shoes. 1037 00:33:08,022 --> 00:33:10,362 Connect with bootstrapped founders and the advisors 1038 00:33:10,362 --> 00:33:12,781 helping them win in the Startups.com community. 1039 00:33:12,961 --> 00:33:17,552 Check out the Startups.com community at www.startups.com 1040 00:33:17,671 --> 00:33:18,591 to see if it's for you. 1041 00:33:18,852 --> 00:33:19,891 Could be just the thing you need. 1042 00:33:20,141 --> 00:33:21,082 I hope to see you inside