WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:24.936 --> 00:00:27.306 Anke: Hello and welcome Kathy. 00:00:27.306 --> 00:00:28.896 Welcome back Helen. 00:00:29.106 --> 00:00:29.736 Welcome. 00:00:30.816 --> 00:00:31.386 Thank you. 00:00:31.386 --> 00:00:31.566 We 00:00:31.566 --> 00:00:32.076 Helen: are delighted 00:00:32.076 --> 00:00:32.676 Anke: to be here. 00:00:32.946 --> 00:00:33.996 Helen: I'm really excited to be here. 00:00:33.996 --> 00:00:35.346 Thank you so much for having us, 00:00:35.646 --> 00:00:38.766 Anke: and I'm very excited to have you because we have a very 00:00:38.766 --> 00:00:40.836 specific, exciting reason for it. 00:00:41.196 --> 00:00:46.236 But I'll let, um, you start out with, let people know where in 00:00:46.236 --> 00:00:49.536 this lovely world you're based and what's your business with dogs. 00:00:50.421 --> 00:00:51.111 Kathy: Kathy, you go 00:00:51.111 --> 00:00:51.711 Anke: first. 00:00:52.131 --> 00:00:53.121 Kathy: Okay, I'll go first. 00:00:53.121 --> 00:00:54.951 Just 'cause my side is the young side. 00:00:54.951 --> 00:00:56.751 I guess that it begins with the young side. 00:00:56.751 --> 00:00:57.021 Yes. 00:00:57.021 --> 00:01:00.711 So, so Helen and I have just, uh, written a new book called Old Dog. 00:01:00.711 --> 00:01:01.191 New Dog. 00:01:01.221 --> 00:01:04.671 And what that means, we're talking about as your beloved dog is 00:01:04.671 --> 00:01:08.631 starting to age sometimes that makes you think about, Ooh, is it time? 00:01:08.631 --> 00:01:11.481 Should we get a new puppy now or is it too late? 00:01:11.481 --> 00:01:12.621 Is this a good time? 00:01:12.621 --> 00:01:13.431 We're not really sure. 00:01:13.941 --> 00:01:14.391 Um. 00:01:14.761 --> 00:01:16.351 We both get that question. 00:01:16.441 --> 00:01:21.151 Um, I'm the puppy side of that question and Helen gets it from the other side. 00:01:21.151 --> 00:01:26.431 Anyway, so yeah, my expertise is in puppies, so I, um, I have a, I'm a 00:01:26.491 --> 00:01:30.001 dog trainer, certified professional dog trainer and with my own business, 00:01:30.001 --> 00:01:31.591 and I do specialize in puppy hood. 00:01:32.311 --> 00:01:33.901 I also foster puppies. 00:01:33.901 --> 00:01:39.211 That's kind of how this all got started, is we have fostered 250 rescue puppies. 00:01:39.211 --> 00:01:40.951 Our family has super fun. 00:01:40.951 --> 00:01:43.141 Everyone's sort of like, oh, what is that? 00:01:43.441 --> 00:01:46.081 It is to me a total delight. 00:01:46.081 --> 00:01:47.761 I just, I love it. 00:01:47.761 --> 00:01:51.631 I love to take the moms and who have landed in a shelter. 00:01:51.631 --> 00:01:53.851 Maybe they're pregnant, maybe they've had their babies, maybe 00:01:53.851 --> 00:01:57.396 they're just a week old, and I love to give them the safety they need. 00:01:58.136 --> 00:02:01.376 To settle in, relax and nurture these babies. 00:02:01.376 --> 00:02:03.326 And then of course we nurture them too. 00:02:03.326 --> 00:02:06.026 Have a great time, get them hooked up with other owners and that. 00:02:06.266 --> 00:02:09.686 That's originally actually how I got into dog to being a professional dog 00:02:09.686 --> 00:02:13.526 trainer was because I was helping all the adopters through puppy hood. 00:02:13.526 --> 00:02:17.576 You know, I hand over this wiggly little guy, he's so cute, it's great. 00:02:17.636 --> 00:02:20.036 And then three days later, the people are. 00:02:20.061 --> 00:02:21.951 Calling me like, what have I done? 00:02:22.221 --> 00:02:25.791 So I started helping them through puppy hood that way, and then studied 00:02:25.791 --> 00:02:27.381 and studied, became a dog trainer. 00:02:27.441 --> 00:02:29.241 And um, and I love it. 00:02:29.301 --> 00:02:29.871 It's really fun. 00:02:29.871 --> 00:02:32.691 I think puppy hood gets a bad rap, um, lot. 00:02:32.901 --> 00:02:35.931 It can be fantastic and joyful. 00:02:36.201 --> 00:02:41.031 And it is often not because people have funky little expectations that 00:02:41.031 --> 00:02:45.051 are, uh, that are ruining their time in Puppyhood and frankly, 00:02:45.051 --> 00:02:46.131 their puppy time in Puppyhood. 00:02:46.161 --> 00:02:49.821 So I like to help get everybody oriented so that it can be. 00:02:49.996 --> 00:02:52.576 The lovely experience that, that I know it can be. 00:02:52.726 --> 00:02:53.536 So that's me. 00:02:53.746 --> 00:02:54.706 And now here's Helen. 00:02:56.356 --> 00:02:58.966 Helen: Um, so I am Helen St. 00:02:58.966 --> 00:02:59.296 Pierre. 00:02:59.296 --> 00:03:04.186 I am the, uh, founder and executive director of a nonprofit found, 00:03:04.276 --> 00:03:08.026 uh, nonprofit right here in my, uh, home called Old Dogs. 00:03:08.026 --> 00:03:11.746 Go to Helen, which is a 5 0 1 C3 here in New Hampshire. 00:03:12.076 --> 00:03:16.306 Um, and we've had old dogs go to Helen now for about. 00:03:16.326 --> 00:03:17.616 Seven years. 00:03:17.616 --> 00:03:19.086 It's seven years in August. 00:03:19.476 --> 00:03:24.876 Um, but I've been in the animal and canine professional world, world for 23 years 00:03:24.906 --> 00:03:31.656 and I started my career in shelter work, um, and was a certified vet tech for, 00:03:31.656 --> 00:03:37.416 and did have been sort of in the behavior and animal field my entire career. 00:03:37.476 --> 00:03:38.046 Um. 00:03:38.736 --> 00:03:43.056 But realized after doing a lot of work that Kathy was doing, you know, 00:03:43.056 --> 00:03:46.476 most of us dog trainers are in and out of the shelter world a lot. 00:03:46.476 --> 00:03:48.636 We get our, we bring our work home with us. 00:03:48.636 --> 00:03:49.986 Let's just put it that way. 00:03:50.406 --> 00:03:53.496 That, um, something that was really missing was people 00:03:53.496 --> 00:03:55.806 wanting to bring home the. 00:03:56.046 --> 00:04:03.186 Sickest oldest dogs, um, you know, and I started bringing them in and 00:04:03.186 --> 00:04:05.016 giving them a wonderful end of life. 00:04:05.106 --> 00:04:08.586 And then, uh, letting them pass and then doing it again. 00:04:08.586 --> 00:04:12.366 And slowly what happened is, uh, people wanted to help contribute. 00:04:12.396 --> 00:04:15.546 At that point, we, Jake, my husband and I, were doing it completely out 00:04:15.546 --> 00:04:18.576 of pocket, and then our phone started to ring and we started to get all 00:04:18.576 --> 00:04:20.436 kinds of really complex medical cases. 00:04:21.291 --> 00:04:24.171 And it's sort of like snowballed, let's just put it that way. 00:04:24.231 --> 00:04:28.941 Um, and senior dogs have always been a huge piece of who I am. 00:04:28.941 --> 00:04:31.461 I've always had a senior dog in my home. 00:04:31.821 --> 00:04:35.811 Um, and it wasn't until my personal senior dog Merlin passed. 00:04:36.206 --> 00:04:39.596 That I realized just what the presence of a senior dog in a 00:04:39.596 --> 00:04:45.056 multi-generational household with senior animals in and around can do for 00:04:45.056 --> 00:04:47.066 the younger animals in the household. 00:04:47.396 --> 00:04:52.616 And so, um, it was kind of like, it, it's been a very organic, slow build. 00:04:52.616 --> 00:04:53.486 And now I have. 00:04:53.496 --> 00:04:56.286 14 senior hospice dogs. 00:04:56.286 --> 00:05:00.936 In my, uh, sanctuary, we have senior and hospice horses, goats, pigs. 00:05:00.936 --> 00:05:02.136 I mean, basically you name it. 00:05:02.136 --> 00:05:06.426 We just took in a 14-year-old hospice main coon this weekend. 00:05:06.426 --> 00:05:09.066 We do anything old and. 00:05:09.471 --> 00:05:13.161 Sick and potentially bald with no teeth and smells really bad 00:05:13.281 --> 00:05:15.531 is welcome at our home any day. 00:05:15.891 --> 00:05:19.281 Um, and so that's me, that's where I come in. 00:05:19.611 --> 00:05:23.181 Um, but I, what I love the most about what Kathy's saying is about how she's like, I 00:05:23.181 --> 00:05:28.671 want the mamas with the babies is like the exceptional amount of work that that is. 00:05:28.671 --> 00:05:31.161 And it, I'm on the other end of like the exceptional amount of 00:05:31.161 --> 00:05:32.361 work, of the end of life, but. 00:05:32.371 --> 00:05:34.531 Both involve a lot of poop. 00:05:35.641 --> 00:05:36.181 Kathy: That's so true. 00:05:36.391 --> 00:05:39.571 That's what unites us really, is we have a lot of poop and pee happy. 00:05:39.571 --> 00:05:40.531 We clean up a lot of 00:05:40.531 --> 00:05:41.281 Helen: poop and pee. 00:05:41.341 --> 00:05:41.701 Kathy: Yeah. 00:05:42.721 --> 00:05:43.591 Anke: For different reasons. 00:05:44.311 --> 00:05:45.361 That is so funny. 00:05:45.721 --> 00:05:46.321 I love that. 00:05:46.321 --> 00:05:46.801 I love that. 00:05:46.801 --> 00:05:49.591 Actually, it's really interesting because when I, when I just heard 00:05:49.591 --> 00:05:52.771 you, it's like I actually do have exactly that mix in my house now. 00:05:53.281 --> 00:05:55.651 I have a 3-year-old. 00:05:56.556 --> 00:05:57.516 Massive girl. 00:05:57.756 --> 00:05:59.466 And, uh, and Mrs. 00:05:59.646 --> 00:06:02.256 Ada is now 12, 12 and a bit 12 and a half. 00:06:02.256 --> 00:06:02.466 Yeah. 00:06:02.721 --> 00:06:03.011 Okay. 00:06:03.016 --> 00:06:08.196 And, uh, I really, I, I always felt it was a luxury to have the two 00:06:08.196 --> 00:06:14.346 together because, I mean, all I, all my dogs came to me as puppies, right. 00:06:14.346 --> 00:06:17.046 But the last one, it felt I didn't have to. 00:06:21.036 --> 00:06:21.126 Right. 00:06:22.236 --> 00:06:25.896 So I mean we had some other lucky sort of circumstances in the sense 00:06:25.896 --> 00:06:28.266 that she came from a farm environment. 00:06:28.266 --> 00:06:31.896 So she basically, by accident, came toilet trained. 00:06:32.376 --> 00:06:35.976 So we brought her home and she was like, okay, got in her, 00:06:36.306 --> 00:06:37.716 well that this massive crate. 00:06:37.716 --> 00:06:40.806 'cause I knew she was gonna be big and there was this tiny little fluff ball 00:06:40.806 --> 00:06:45.636 and in the big cushion and she was just wedging out there relaxing, like sleeping. 00:06:45.636 --> 00:06:48.156 I'm like, and then all of a sudden she gets up. 00:06:48.681 --> 00:06:52.161 And that little bear, like she just sort of wobbles through the door, 00:06:52.461 --> 00:06:57.501 goes outside where there's some grass and peace and we're like, okay, this 00:06:57.501 --> 00:06:59.091 is what you think the way this goes. 00:06:59.091 --> 00:07:00.801 You just keep doing what you're doing. 00:07:01.011 --> 00:07:02.331 That was toilet training for us. 00:07:02.331 --> 00:07:02.631 Right. 00:07:02.811 --> 00:07:07.611 She just was used to peeing on grass, so that's what she did. 00:07:08.001 --> 00:07:11.721 You know, she Well, and I didn't, she had one accident in the house, like 00:07:11.721 --> 00:07:12.111 Kathy: that's it. 00:07:12.846 --> 00:07:15.516 I do suspect that also in your house, because you have those 00:07:15.516 --> 00:07:17.796 other dogs, the scent is outside. 00:07:17.796 --> 00:07:21.906 And so this is one of the things that really is pretty guaranteed, is that your 00:07:22.266 --> 00:07:26.646 potty training generally goes a little bit faster with a puppy if you have any 00:07:26.646 --> 00:07:31.686 adult dog who is fully house broken in your house, because that scent is so 00:07:31.686 --> 00:07:35.976 powerful and if it is in the right spot, it's gonna be working in your favor. 00:07:35.976 --> 00:07:36.216 So 00:07:36.276 --> 00:07:37.326 Anke: yeah, no, totally. 00:07:37.326 --> 00:07:39.456 And then also the crazy play. 00:07:39.456 --> 00:07:40.956 You know, when she was just like. 00:07:41.431 --> 00:07:47.011 She took all of that with the patient of the saint, you know, so, so, yeah. 00:07:47.071 --> 00:07:50.071 You know, they're still going strong, so, you know, here we go. 00:07:50.611 --> 00:07:51.721 And, uh, yeah. 00:07:51.841 --> 00:07:52.921 So I'm really curious. 00:07:52.921 --> 00:07:57.361 I mean, I can totally see how, you know, lots of poop at the end, at the beginning. 00:07:57.781 --> 00:08:03.421 And, and how did this idea of actually writing a book together, 00:08:03.421 --> 00:08:05.166 how did that can come about? 00:08:07.011 --> 00:08:10.581 I would imagine it's not just like, okay, front part is about pp, 00:08:12.891 --> 00:08:15.681 about is about how did you. 00:08:18.891 --> 00:08:19.071 Kathy: We 00:08:19.071 --> 00:08:20.121 Helen: take it away, Kathy. 00:08:20.241 --> 00:08:20.811 Kathy: Okay. 00:08:20.811 --> 00:08:20.812 Okay. 00:08:21.051 --> 00:08:26.181 So we both were, um, presenting at the, at a dog conference. 00:08:26.181 --> 00:08:29.031 A lot of people are surprised to find there is such a thing as a dog conference. 00:08:29.031 --> 00:08:31.341 There are dog conferences and we were presenting, um, 00:08:31.371 --> 00:08:32.511 I was presenting on puppies. 00:08:32.601 --> 00:08:37.461 Helen was presenting on oldies, um, at the Legs Conference. 00:08:37.461 --> 00:08:42.711 Kim Brophy's, um, ethology based group, uh, is the Family Dog Mediation group. 00:08:42.711 --> 00:08:46.251 And so we were, uh, both presenting on those things and we both listened 00:08:46.251 --> 00:08:50.961 to each other's presentations and were like, Hey, hang on, because there was 00:08:50.961 --> 00:08:52.731 so much symmetry there and there was. 00:08:53.106 --> 00:08:55.476 Just, we were both grounded in the same stuff. 00:08:55.476 --> 00:08:56.856 We're talking about the same things. 00:08:56.856 --> 00:09:01.236 And um, so basically we came up to each other after those, 00:09:01.296 --> 00:09:03.966 uh, after those presentations, we were like, you know what, no 00:09:03.966 --> 00:09:05.226 seriously, we should write a book. 00:09:05.226 --> 00:09:09.216 Because also, not only are the things we talk about very similar, 00:09:09.216 --> 00:09:12.066 but we both get that question. 00:09:12.186 --> 00:09:14.646 Um, and the answer. 00:09:14.666 --> 00:09:20.726 Is complicated and, um, you know, uh, sometimes it's, as you describe, which 00:09:20.726 --> 00:09:22.256 is it worked out beautifully for you. 00:09:22.256 --> 00:09:25.046 Your older dog was interested in doing that. 00:09:25.046 --> 00:09:29.546 Sometimes it's, um, a lot rockier and everyone hopes for the dream. 00:09:29.546 --> 00:09:31.766 Helen and I both love the overlap. 00:09:31.766 --> 00:09:35.306 We love the idea of your old dog. 00:09:35.816 --> 00:09:36.296 Um. 00:09:36.891 --> 00:09:41.751 Um, setting the stage and helping teach and how, and you love the 00:09:41.751 --> 00:09:45.201 idea of a relationship between the two of them, but it doesn't always 00:09:45.201 --> 00:09:46.941 go as beautifully as you described. 00:09:46.971 --> 00:09:52.971 And so we, um, both get that question all the time, as do many vets and trainers. 00:09:53.301 --> 00:09:54.321 We've looked and looked. 00:09:54.501 --> 00:09:56.211 There is no resource about this. 00:09:56.211 --> 00:10:00.681 There are plenty of dog, plenty of books on puppies, including mine. 00:10:01.221 --> 00:10:04.701 Um, and then there are plenty of books on oldies, but there. 00:10:05.121 --> 00:10:10.791 Is not a little resource that you can look to, to help assess, 00:10:11.061 --> 00:10:12.741 wait a sec, should I do this? 00:10:12.771 --> 00:10:14.751 Is this a good idea for me right now? 00:10:14.811 --> 00:10:20.961 And if you've just done it a little guide to help you smooth the way and, 00:10:21.321 --> 00:10:23.511 uh, help it turn into this scenario that. 00:10:23.676 --> 00:10:25.266 That you have just described. 00:10:25.536 --> 00:10:27.456 So what about, what, what did I forget, Helen? 00:10:27.996 --> 00:10:28.716 Helen: No, nothing. 00:10:28.716 --> 00:10:32.736 I mean, that's exactly where it, it, you know, originated from. 00:10:32.796 --> 00:10:36.186 I think that something that was really important for me with 00:10:36.246 --> 00:10:40.176 listening to Kathie's talk and then knowing Ka through her. 00:10:40.716 --> 00:10:42.126 I had seen her book. 00:10:42.161 --> 00:10:48.251 Prior, and it was amazing, was also, um, knowing that she was on the same 00:10:48.251 --> 00:10:52.121 wavelength that I was in assessing quality of life and how we evaluate 00:10:52.121 --> 00:10:56.886 what I call quality of death because, um, you know, there's a huge. 00:10:57.816 --> 00:11:02.166 Disconnect for a lot of people on how we measure whether an animal is 00:11:02.166 --> 00:11:04.026 actually living life to their fullest. 00:11:04.026 --> 00:11:06.156 And I'm not just talking about senior animals, I'm talking 00:11:06.156 --> 00:11:07.266 about younger animals too. 00:11:07.266 --> 00:11:10.596 And that was really important to me in our collaboration, was that 00:11:10.596 --> 00:11:16.541 we both were on the same page in helping people really start to broaden 00:11:16.541 --> 00:11:18.821 their perspective and ideas of what. 00:11:19.546 --> 00:11:23.206 A good life should look like as well as, which we talk about 00:11:23.206 --> 00:11:24.526 in the book, a good death. 00:11:24.586 --> 00:11:28.426 And, um, so it was, to me it was like a no brainer. 00:11:28.516 --> 00:11:32.806 It was just, it needed to happen and it did, it needed to happen. 00:11:32.806 --> 00:11:33.706 And it did an honest, 00:11:34.001 --> 00:11:35.531 Anke: know each other personally before Right. 00:11:36.031 --> 00:11:36.251 No 00:11:37.606 --> 00:11:38.656 Kathy: knew of each other. 00:11:38.686 --> 00:11:39.466 We knew of each other. 00:11:40.221 --> 00:11:42.711 And see, I kid you not, we basically hugged when we 00:11:42.711 --> 00:11:44.181 met, we were like, oh my God. 00:11:44.481 --> 00:11:48.021 And then we did sort of outline the book over the coffee break there. 00:11:48.051 --> 00:11:48.111 Yeah. 00:11:48.111 --> 00:11:50.001 And I'm not, and that was in December. 00:11:50.721 --> 00:11:51.321 We. 00:11:52.251 --> 00:11:57.471 The publisher said good idea in like January, and the manuscript was done 00:11:57.471 --> 00:12:00.201 in July, and that is very, very fast. 00:12:00.201 --> 00:12:05.151 And I'm telling you, it just felt like it just rolled off of us because this 00:12:05.151 --> 00:12:09.981 stuff has been in both of our heads for a really long time and it made so 00:12:10.011 --> 00:12:14.991 much sense to marry these two topics, help people think about these two ends 00:12:14.991 --> 00:12:17.181 of the age spectrum at the same time. 00:12:17.211 --> 00:12:19.641 What's it gonna take for you to do this? 00:12:19.641 --> 00:12:20.721 Well, those, these are both. 00:12:20.986 --> 00:12:22.246 Beautiful stages. 00:12:22.246 --> 00:12:25.816 These are very intense stages, or they can be very intense stages. 00:12:25.816 --> 00:12:30.736 And so we don't always know when we look on paper, like if we see you, if 00:12:30.736 --> 00:12:33.676 you describe your house and describe what your older dog is like and kind 00:12:33.676 --> 00:12:36.346 of what your household is like, and whether you have a fence and whether 00:12:36.346 --> 00:12:41.446 you have room in your house to make a little puppy corner or a senior square. 00:12:41.896 --> 00:12:42.376 Um. 00:12:42.666 --> 00:12:46.176 We're still not really gonna know because nobody's gonna know. 00:12:46.236 --> 00:12:48.546 E every dog is a unique individual. 00:12:48.546 --> 00:12:50.466 All these families are unique individuals. 00:12:50.466 --> 00:12:52.806 We don't know how it's gonna roll until we see it. 00:12:53.106 --> 00:12:55.806 We can guess and we can help you set it up. 00:12:55.896 --> 00:12:59.946 Um, and then we kind of need to watch and adjust and what it will take for you. 00:13:00.291 --> 00:13:01.881 It might be lovely. 00:13:01.881 --> 00:13:03.801 The older dog might just be like, you know what? 00:13:03.801 --> 00:13:05.151 This is what I've been waiting for. 00:13:05.151 --> 00:13:05.871 I love this. 00:13:05.871 --> 00:13:08.361 I love passing this off to this new puppy. 00:13:08.421 --> 00:13:12.681 And the puppy may be strangely, actually, like my little pork chop, 00:13:12.681 --> 00:13:15.261 the little, little rescue you were talking about, who's in my house 00:13:15.291 --> 00:13:19.221 until yesterday, might be one of those puppies who just has a sense and 00:13:19.221 --> 00:13:22.071 does modulate himself without even. 00:13:22.291 --> 00:13:24.601 Needing much direction from the older dog. 00:13:24.901 --> 00:13:26.281 You might get that dream scenario. 00:13:26.581 --> 00:13:31.981 You also might not, you also might get the older dog who is like, are you kidding me? 00:13:32.041 --> 00:13:34.171 This is the last thing I wanted. 00:13:34.171 --> 00:13:36.421 What do you mean you thought I wanted a friend? 00:13:36.451 --> 00:13:37.981 This is awful. 00:13:38.161 --> 00:13:41.611 Uh, this, this little thing is biting me and jumping on me and all I wanna 00:13:41.611 --> 00:13:45.781 do is nap in the sun and this pu and you might get the kind of puppy 00:13:45.781 --> 00:13:48.961 who takes no direction really from the other dog in the beginning. 00:13:48.961 --> 00:13:50.371 And so that means. 00:13:51.051 --> 00:13:54.171 This decision depends on how much bandwidth you have. 00:13:54.351 --> 00:13:59.841 The humans in the house have to have the bandwidth to manage this on a practical 00:13:59.841 --> 00:14:04.521 level because if that puppy's bursting with energy, it's up to you then not. 00:14:04.521 --> 00:14:07.941 You cannot just make the older dog, uh, you know, entertain the bup. 00:14:08.541 --> 00:14:11.511 And you also need to have the emotional bandwidth because 00:14:11.571 --> 00:14:12.891 it's emotional to have a puppy. 00:14:12.891 --> 00:14:17.121 And it's very emotional to have a beloved old dog who is getting older. 00:14:17.121 --> 00:14:18.231 And you might have some. 00:14:18.966 --> 00:14:19.986 Decisions to make. 00:14:20.166 --> 00:14:21.126 So that's, that's you. 00:14:21.126 --> 00:14:21.846 That's you, Helen. 00:14:23.376 --> 00:14:23.676 Helen: Yeah. 00:14:23.676 --> 00:14:26.196 No, I mean that's, you said it Kathy. 00:14:26.196 --> 00:14:27.726 It's perfect, perfect way to put it. 00:14:28.176 --> 00:14:31.716 Anke: It's actually interesting now, when I would look back, when, when little 00:14:31.716 --> 00:14:38.916 Leah came, uh, Kai was still alive as well, and he probably, well, it worked 00:14:38.916 --> 00:14:44.016 out for all of them because Kai, it was really funny the way we brought the day. 00:14:44.016 --> 00:14:45.096 We brought her home. 00:14:45.456 --> 00:14:47.526 He was actually the one who was like, oh. 00:14:47.856 --> 00:14:49.086 Oh, who is that? 00:14:49.296 --> 00:14:49.656 Right? 00:14:49.836 --> 00:14:51.936 Versus the other girl goes. 00:14:52.506 --> 00:14:53.436 Take this thing away. 00:14:53.436 --> 00:14:54.036 What is this? 00:14:54.036 --> 00:14:54.126 Right. 00:14:54.726 --> 00:14:54.727 Yeah. 00:14:54.732 --> 00:14:57.036 So, so that was the initial reaction. 00:14:57.036 --> 00:14:59.916 But then after a couple of days, I think she nipped him 00:14:59.916 --> 00:15:01.116 in the nuts a couple of times. 00:15:01.926 --> 00:15:05.256 So he then no longer wanted anything to do with her. 00:15:05.556 --> 00:15:05.886 Right. 00:15:06.066 --> 00:15:09.396 But the thing was, because the other one then go, oh, I think 00:15:09.396 --> 00:15:11.436 I like you, and stepped in. 00:15:11.466 --> 00:15:15.441 He could step out and have nothing to do with, you know, and then. 00:15:20.871 --> 00:15:25.746 Like he, he wasn't doing anything against her, but he was just like, when she would. 00:15:28.131 --> 00:15:32.841 The other one had stepped in, so there was that, you know, he had 00:15:32.841 --> 00:15:36.651 somewhere to go, so he didn't, he wasn't forced to to deal with it. 00:15:36.741 --> 00:15:37.971 Poor thing, you know? 00:15:38.061 --> 00:15:41.061 But it was really funny because he initially was the one who was more 00:15:41.061 --> 00:15:45.201 open initially, but then, like, it literally shifted in a couple of days. 00:15:45.561 --> 00:15:46.731 So I can totally see in. 00:15:46.731 --> 00:15:49.101 A friend of mine literally had a conversation the other day. 00:15:49.401 --> 00:15:53.601 She has a, a, like a big ter. 00:15:53.791 --> 00:15:55.231 Very funny 'cause she's very little, right? 00:15:55.321 --> 00:15:59.041 And, and so the dog always looks bigger than her in photos. 00:15:59.041 --> 00:15:59.731 It's quite funny. 00:15:59.731 --> 00:16:05.461 But then she got a puppy and now the big dog is like seven, eight years old. 00:16:06.001 --> 00:16:10.771 And that's, she's found somebody else to take care of the puppy because, 00:16:10.981 --> 00:16:14.671 you know, she, you know, all of a sudden, like she can't, like she was 00:16:14.671 --> 00:16:17.611 on the couch now and now that little thing is in, in there everywhere. 00:16:17.611 --> 00:16:20.071 So it's like he doesn't cut off. 00:16:20.781 --> 00:16:24.891 Well, he's got kicked out of daycare and stuff, so, you know, so she hasn't 00:16:24.891 --> 00:16:26.271 got the bandwidth for both of them. 00:16:26.271 --> 00:16:30.681 Like, and she didn't expect this to be, you know, such 00:16:30.681 --> 00:16:32.511 a, such a, such an upheaval. 00:16:32.511 --> 00:16:36.261 And also the other, the older dog isn't happy at all, you know, so you can 00:16:36.261 --> 00:16:37.761 take this thing away from me, you know? 00:16:37.971 --> 00:16:40.701 So that's definitely a case where it hasn't worked out. 00:16:40.701 --> 00:16:44.151 So it isn't all of a sudden, like, it's not just like, oh, just bring the 00:16:44.151 --> 00:16:45.741 puppy home and everybody will be happy. 00:16:46.131 --> 00:16:48.531 So what do you, what do you suggest? 00:16:48.531 --> 00:16:49.881 Like, how can somebody. 00:16:50.496 --> 00:16:52.206 What, let's ask this way. 00:16:52.206 --> 00:16:53.556 What do need pe? 00:16:54.276 --> 00:16:57.786 What do people need to take into account to make the decision? 00:17:00.681 --> 00:17:02.931 Kathy: I think the first thing is, yeah, because I think the first 00:17:02.931 --> 00:17:05.121 thing is the status of the older dog. 00:17:05.481 --> 00:17:05.901 Helen: Yes. 00:17:05.961 --> 00:17:07.191 I, I completely agree. 00:17:07.191 --> 00:17:10.731 So, you know, if there's a current dog or dogs in the household, you 00:17:10.731 --> 00:17:16.461 really have to look at their tolerance level, their size, their age, if they 00:17:16.461 --> 00:17:21.531 are affected by any form of disease or, um, hindrance at that point. 00:17:21.531 --> 00:17:24.201 You know, if they're losing their eyesight, if they're losing their hearing, 00:17:24.201 --> 00:17:26.391 if they're more arthritic, you know, uh. 00:17:26.721 --> 00:17:32.871 An 18-year-old Maltese that's blind is not going to be easily 00:17:32.871 --> 00:17:36.771 implemented with an eight week old German Shepherd puppy, right? 00:17:36.771 --> 00:17:40.911 So like there's all these different moving variables. 00:17:41.421 --> 00:17:43.851 You know, I look at like jigsaw puzzle pieces. 00:17:44.091 --> 00:17:47.661 You know, it's much easier to put two jigsaw puzzle pieces together, even 00:17:47.661 --> 00:17:52.641 if they're not from the same puzzle, if they're from the same size versus. 00:17:52.766 --> 00:17:53.756 Completely different. 00:17:53.756 --> 00:17:56.486 So that there's a lot of things that you need to consider. 00:17:56.486 --> 00:18:01.046 It's not that that can't work, but you might need to really implement a 00:18:01.046 --> 00:18:07.406 ton more management and be okay with literally having separate lives for 00:18:07.406 --> 00:18:13.976 both dogs versus the idea that this puppy will instantly know how to handle. 00:18:14.156 --> 00:18:15.476 And, and again, so that. 00:18:15.516 --> 00:18:19.056 That's sort of where I look at it is the, the, the senior 00:18:19.056 --> 00:18:21.096 dog and or the current dogs. 00:18:21.336 --> 00:18:25.836 And then again, as Kathy was saying, the puppies, there are puppies that will come 00:18:25.836 --> 00:18:32.166 in and say, oh, you are a senior dog and I need to know how to modify my behavior. 00:18:32.316 --> 00:18:35.946 Sometimes just like kids, you know how they are just kids that naturally go. 00:18:36.401 --> 00:18:42.491 Oh yeah, I can't jump on grandma, um, the way that I jump on. 00:18:42.611 --> 00:18:48.701 But there are kids and there are puppies that have no concept of spatial 00:18:48.701 --> 00:18:51.941 awareness or deferring to certain needs. 00:18:52.001 --> 00:18:55.871 And that's where working with, whether it's the rescue or the 00:18:55.871 --> 00:18:58.841 shelter or the breeder and saying, this is what we have at home and 00:18:58.841 --> 00:19:01.511 these are the kinds of temperaments and personalities that we need. 00:19:02.021 --> 00:19:02.621 Um. 00:19:03.011 --> 00:19:08.831 But it's, it's understanding all of those variables and knowing what, 00:19:09.191 --> 00:19:14.981 dependent on those variables, what each scenario might look different than this. 00:19:14.981 --> 00:19:17.201 We just bring them home and they're fine together. 00:19:17.201 --> 00:19:17.261 I. 00:19:17.586 --> 00:19:18.126 Is that okay? 00:19:18.126 --> 00:19:19.446 Is that answer, Kathy? 00:19:19.446 --> 00:19:20.556 I think no, I think that's 00:19:20.556 --> 00:19:23.946 Kathy: exactly right and it, it could be, here's the thing, it's our fondest 00:19:23.946 --> 00:19:27.426 hope and dream for you that you will be able to bring the puppy home and 00:19:27.426 --> 00:19:33.816 that your senior dog actually feels in good enough shape to be excited to deal 00:19:33.816 --> 00:19:36.756 with that puppy and hang out with that puppy, and that they will find a way 00:19:36.756 --> 00:19:41.561 to be friends immediately and you won't have to do that much management, but. 00:19:41.801 --> 00:19:45.341 It's likely, and you just wanna be prepared for the fact that you might have 00:19:45.341 --> 00:19:50.861 to have some pens and gates and fencing up a little bit longer than you intended. 00:19:50.861 --> 00:19:55.751 Not that you have to have that going 24 7, but you do have to have that 00:19:55.751 --> 00:19:57.641 as an option for when the, the. 00:19:57.671 --> 00:20:02.111 Biggest most important piece of advice we have is not to stick your old dog 00:20:02.441 --> 00:20:08.141 or even any adult dog, frankly, with a puppy 24 7, because frankly, they 00:20:08.141 --> 00:20:10.241 did not choose that we added this. 00:20:10.241 --> 00:20:13.031 They might, they might end up being happy with it, but they, they were 00:20:13.031 --> 00:20:17.141 not in the decision circle when they did not raise their paw and say, 00:20:17.141 --> 00:20:21.731 yes, I would like to add the toddler, and then suddenly there's this. 00:20:21.946 --> 00:20:26.746 Possibly wild toddler in their face 24 7, and the puppy will 00:20:26.746 --> 00:20:28.876 choose the other dog over you. 00:20:28.936 --> 00:20:30.136 No matter how fun you are. 00:20:30.136 --> 00:20:34.396 That puppy's gonna be really drawn to that other dog in the household all the time. 00:20:34.786 --> 00:20:37.936 And humans are gonna, we are all too busy. 00:20:38.311 --> 00:20:42.961 And we're gonna be tempted to let that older dog take the brunt of it and 00:20:42.961 --> 00:20:44.221 we're gonna be like, you know what? 00:20:44.221 --> 00:20:46.561 The puppy's being quiet right now, he's with the older dog. 00:20:46.561 --> 00:20:47.131 It's fine. 00:20:47.371 --> 00:20:50.461 And we're gonna try to go do our zoom and go focus on our thing 00:20:50.461 --> 00:20:52.681 and go do the scroll doom scroll. 00:20:52.981 --> 00:20:55.981 Um, so we need to just not do that. 00:20:56.101 --> 00:21:00.451 Like, so we need to set it up, set up the house, and set up our schedule, set 00:21:00.451 --> 00:21:05.551 up our mindset to understand that the puppy's gonna be with the older dog. 00:21:06.081 --> 00:21:10.731 In the beginning, only in a supervised way, and we're gonna help them be friends 00:21:10.731 --> 00:21:14.901 by doing a bunch of good things that allow them to del develop that friendship 00:21:14.901 --> 00:21:16.881 without just being shoved together. 00:21:17.211 --> 00:21:20.876 We're gonna help support that and that may take a day. 00:21:21.846 --> 00:21:25.836 A week, three months or a year, you know, it's gonna take as long as it takes. 00:21:25.836 --> 00:21:31.086 And so that, that's our biggest, our biggest, uh, push for you guys 00:21:31.086 --> 00:21:35.976 is to be ready to have, to really manage, really supervise both 00:21:35.976 --> 00:21:40.776 physically with, um, equipment in your house that allows your senior 00:21:40.776 --> 00:21:43.386 dog always to opt away from the puppy. 00:21:43.776 --> 00:21:45.396 Always can choose, you know, what? 00:21:45.396 --> 00:21:48.696 Not right now, and you're watching enough that you can help that senior 00:21:48.696 --> 00:21:52.956 dog go to go, go to a different part of the house, and then guess what? 00:21:53.166 --> 00:21:53.826 It's up to you. 00:21:53.826 --> 00:21:57.366 The puppy is gonna need some, you know, maybe he's gonna need a stuffed topple. 00:21:57.366 --> 00:22:00.066 Maybe he's gonna need a play date with a neighbor. 00:22:00.066 --> 00:22:00.816 This is the thing. 00:22:01.206 --> 00:22:02.496 You have to think about what. 00:22:02.961 --> 00:22:04.761 What other options do you have? 00:22:04.761 --> 00:22:06.351 What kind of village do you have? 00:22:06.351 --> 00:22:07.221 Do you have friends? 00:22:07.221 --> 00:22:07.791 Do you have kids? 00:22:07.791 --> 00:22:09.261 Do you have teenagers next door? 00:22:09.261 --> 00:22:12.801 Who would love nothing more than to take the puppy to their house for an hour? 00:22:12.801 --> 00:22:15.051 That's huge for the puppy, terrific for everyone else. 00:22:15.561 --> 00:22:19.131 So it doesn't mean that you have to have a ton of extra time, but you 00:22:19.131 --> 00:22:22.671 have to have the willingness and the bandwidth to think about what 00:22:22.731 --> 00:22:24.261 kind, how can we make this work? 00:22:24.711 --> 00:22:28.251 Um, and you may need it, you may not, but, uh, but it, uh, 00:22:29.001 --> 00:22:30.531 anticipation is your friend. 00:22:31.296 --> 00:22:31.476 Yeah, 00:22:31.476 --> 00:22:33.786 Anke: pro proactive and patients I'm hearing, right. 00:22:34.056 --> 00:22:39.216 And that's something like, I wanna kinda almost underline because I mean, I've 00:22:39.216 --> 00:22:44.376 seen things where people got a puppy and you know, and then like literally two 00:22:44.376 --> 00:22:46.086 days later, oh, the puppy was crying. 00:22:46.206 --> 00:22:47.856 They're like, what the heck did you expect? 00:22:47.856 --> 00:22:48.096 Right? 00:22:48.096 --> 00:22:49.656 Like this puppy, you know? 00:22:49.656 --> 00:22:54.846 So I, I think it's probably pretty rare that it's a matter of a couple of days. 00:22:55.356 --> 00:22:57.696 You know, I think, I think people, I. 00:22:58.356 --> 00:23:00.216 Need to expect this. 00:23:00.246 --> 00:23:03.816 I mean, well, if it, if it ends up being seamless, well great. 00:23:03.876 --> 00:23:06.306 But you can't kind of go in expecting that. 00:23:06.306 --> 00:23:09.876 And I think you need to have that patience to put the, you know, 00:23:09.876 --> 00:23:12.876 when, like when you're saying like, oh yeah, months could be a year. 00:23:12.876 --> 00:23:13.956 Like, you know, so, right. 00:23:14.466 --> 00:23:15.066 Kathy: Yeah. 00:23:15.726 --> 00:23:18.996 And the thing is, you know, the way we're talking about it, I guess it, it's got a 00:23:18.996 --> 00:23:23.736 little bit of a negative cast on it and I just wanna make sure to point out that 00:23:24.126 --> 00:23:28.506 I love to back burner everything else and put dog relationships in the front. 00:23:28.506 --> 00:23:34.086 I think it's grounding and centering and peace inducing for me to do that. 00:23:34.086 --> 00:23:38.376 So, you know, as, as I know, it's sounding like a cautionary tale kind 00:23:38.376 --> 00:23:39.366 of thing, the way we're talking. 00:23:39.366 --> 00:23:42.066 But I also wanna say that like, it's wonderful. 00:23:42.066 --> 00:23:46.596 To do that, you just wanna be ready to understand that your life is gonna change. 00:23:47.016 --> 00:23:49.656 Um, and this is gonna be one of those intense periods where 00:23:49.656 --> 00:23:51.006 this is what you're focusing on. 00:23:51.006 --> 00:23:53.556 And I, I love to focus on that. 00:23:53.556 --> 00:23:58.806 I think it's, it can be an incredibly beautiful moment for you, for your. 00:23:59.386 --> 00:24:02.086 Partner for whoever else lives in your house, for your kids. 00:24:02.086 --> 00:24:05.776 If you got kids, it can be a really beautiful phase and it can be really fun. 00:24:06.166 --> 00:24:09.766 I just don't want it to take you by surprise that you feel like, 00:24:09.766 --> 00:24:11.386 wait, all I'm doing is dogs. 00:24:11.536 --> 00:24:13.546 I want you to be like me and Helen and be like, cool. 00:24:13.576 --> 00:24:14.866 All I'm doing is dogs. 00:24:16.306 --> 00:24:16.516 Helen: Yeah. 00:24:16.576 --> 00:24:20.086 It's, it's so important to remember that for a lot of people. 00:24:20.616 --> 00:24:26.706 They don't observe, you know, if you ever watch a mother raising her puppies, there 00:24:26.706 --> 00:24:30.366 are clearly moments as those puppies get older and they start to wean that. 00:24:30.366 --> 00:24:32.046 Mom goes, I need a break. 00:24:32.106 --> 00:24:33.606 I need a break. 00:24:33.696 --> 00:24:34.956 Please give me a break. 00:24:35.406 --> 00:24:37.686 Um, and if you haven't observed that and you've never seen 00:24:37.686 --> 00:24:39.066 it, you won't understand. 00:24:39.256 --> 00:24:42.976 Um, that sort of, that really important piece of like, there 00:24:42.976 --> 00:24:44.536 has to be some separation. 00:24:44.536 --> 00:24:47.116 We don't just sort of throw them together like two pieces 00:24:47.116 --> 00:24:48.796 of Play-Doh and now that's it. 00:24:48.856 --> 00:24:54.496 They, they stay together, you know, even us as mothers or parents have a 00:24:54.496 --> 00:24:57.226 biological inclination to love our kids. 00:24:57.226 --> 00:25:00.706 But there are moments where we're like, please, I need 00:25:00.706 --> 00:25:02.056 to go in the other room and. 00:25:02.151 --> 00:25:04.101 Close the door for a little bit. 00:25:04.161 --> 00:25:04.551 Right? 00:25:04.971 --> 00:25:08.361 And when you put it that way with people, it's like we're not trying 00:25:08.361 --> 00:25:12.291 to be total doomers here, but it is really important to understand that 00:25:12.501 --> 00:25:17.031 there's going to be necessary times where we need to put that separation in. 00:25:17.301 --> 00:25:20.031 And that doesn't mean things are going wrong, it just means that 00:25:20.031 --> 00:25:24.771 you're proactively helping make sure that they continue to go well. 00:25:24.951 --> 00:25:29.271 Because as we know, mothers that are left with their kids all 00:25:29.271 --> 00:25:31.671 day, every day end up being like. 00:25:32.111 --> 00:25:35.861 I'm gonna break if I don't have five minutes to myself. 00:25:35.861 --> 00:25:39.251 And I feel like when we put that perspective in for 00:25:39.251 --> 00:25:41.831 people, they go, oh, okay. 00:25:41.831 --> 00:25:42.041 Right. 00:25:42.071 --> 00:25:42.311 Yeah. 00:25:42.491 --> 00:25:44.051 It's, there's nothing wrong with my dog. 00:25:44.051 --> 00:25:45.461 There's nothing wrong with my puppy. 00:25:45.941 --> 00:25:49.451 We just need to be implementing what we ourselves need often as well. 00:25:50.051 --> 00:25:50.171 Yeah. 00:25:50.171 --> 00:25:50.231 Anke: Yeah. 00:25:51.096 --> 00:25:55.896 That makes so much sense because, I mean, I think I just wouldn't want people 00:25:55.896 --> 00:25:59.946 to underestimate what they're getting themselves into, you know, because that 00:25:59.951 --> 00:26:03.636 then, then people, if they think it's gonna be, oh, just be a puppy home. 00:26:03.636 --> 00:26:07.356 And then, you know, and it all, and then if something doesn't go smoothly 00:26:07.356 --> 00:26:10.596 immediately, then they instantly gotta lose patience instantly. 00:26:10.596 --> 00:26:14.166 Like, oh, maybe that wasn't, like, give the puppy back, get rid of the dog. 00:26:14.406 --> 00:26:17.676 I, I've seen heartbreaking things in shelters, you know, and they kind of. 00:26:20.016 --> 00:26:21.036 How can you do that? 00:26:21.306 --> 00:26:25.566 But you know, it's like if you underestimate what you're in for, you 00:26:25.566 --> 00:26:31.536 know what it requires of you then, then I think you are more likely to 00:26:31.596 --> 00:26:35.496 make a big drama out of some little thing that didn't quite go your way. 00:26:35.496 --> 00:26:35.526 I. 00:26:36.156 --> 00:26:37.266 Kathy: I think that's exactly right. 00:26:37.266 --> 00:26:40.116 If you just set the expectation right, that there are gonna be some challenging 00:26:40.116 --> 00:26:44.256 moments here, and so you, all you need to do is anticipate that, think through 00:26:44.256 --> 00:26:48.156 how you're gonna manage that, and um, and it's, you know, it'll be all right. 00:26:48.186 --> 00:26:49.896 But, um, but it, you're so right. 00:26:49.896 --> 00:26:53.346 We don't want you to get into a spiral where every single day 00:26:53.346 --> 00:26:56.106 you're surprised by, wait a sec, this was harder than I thought. 00:26:56.136 --> 00:26:57.666 I can't believe I needed to step in. 00:26:57.906 --> 00:27:01.026 So instead of you're expecting, okay, we're gonna manage, and this part 00:27:01.026 --> 00:27:02.016 of the day is gonna be pretty hard. 00:27:02.016 --> 00:27:02.856 This, this, this. 00:27:02.981 --> 00:27:04.571 Thing is gonna work like clockwork. 00:27:04.571 --> 00:27:07.511 And then let's plan to have the neighbor do this and let's plan. 00:27:07.511 --> 00:27:11.591 You know, you, as long as you think it through ahead of time and you arm 00:27:11.591 --> 00:27:15.191 yourself with good stuffed topples in your freezer and you've got plenty of 00:27:15.191 --> 00:27:19.571 stuff to chew, and you've got options for outdoor nature play and you're 00:27:19.571 --> 00:27:22.751 letting the puppy dig a hole in the dirt, in the backyard, because that's it. 00:27:22.961 --> 00:27:26.771 As long as you are meeting those needs, if you have the bandwidth to meet the 00:27:26.771 --> 00:27:28.901 needs of both of those dogs and you. 00:27:29.001 --> 00:27:32.151 Aren't thrown all the time by, wait a sec, they need me again. 00:27:32.571 --> 00:27:36.291 Uh, you can dive into this and it can be a beautiful, beautiful situation. 00:27:36.771 --> 00:27:37.251 Anke: Hmm. 00:27:38.061 --> 00:27:44.691 Now that, that brings up something else, um, when the older dog gets 00:27:44.691 --> 00:27:48.981 older, like basically when the older dog passes, like what's your experience? 00:27:49.011 --> 00:27:49.701 Um. 00:27:50.601 --> 00:27:55.221 You know, for the younger dog or like in, in my case, I've had the two boys 00:27:55.221 --> 00:27:59.331 pass and always there, there have been younger dogs in the house and I always 00:27:59.331 --> 00:28:04.431 had the sense like, you know what, I think they know, they knew way before I did. 00:28:04.821 --> 00:28:11.931 So I never had a case where, you know, they were like visibly upset or strange. 00:28:11.931 --> 00:28:15.651 You know, like, like have a friend of mine where there's literally one dog 00:28:15.651 --> 00:28:19.281 goes and the other one's like literally whining, you know, like crying. 00:28:20.616 --> 00:28:25.026 So what's, what's your experience there or any tips or any thoughts? 00:28:25.596 --> 00:28:29.076 Helen: So, you know, I'll, if you want me to, Kathy, I can answer that. 00:28:29.076 --> 00:28:33.756 If you, so, you know, grief, what we're talking about is, is grief, not the actual 00:28:33.756 --> 00:28:35.976 death there, there's two pieces to this. 00:28:35.976 --> 00:28:37.506 You know, the death of the. 00:28:37.891 --> 00:28:41.371 Um, and you know, and, and I'm such an uplifting person to be 00:28:41.371 --> 00:28:44.251 around 'cause I'm always telling people like, death is inevitable. 00:28:44.401 --> 00:28:46.081 Like, we can't escape death. 00:28:46.081 --> 00:28:47.941 We are all going to experience it. 00:28:47.941 --> 00:28:51.301 And when we bring an animal into our home, we are accepting not 00:28:51.301 --> 00:28:54.031 just the responsibility of raising them as a puppy, but seeing them 00:28:54.031 --> 00:28:56.281 through to the end of their life. 00:28:56.821 --> 00:28:58.681 And, uh, we don't talk about that. 00:28:58.681 --> 00:28:59.991 Piece of it enough. 00:29:00.441 --> 00:29:05.541 And so death can be, um, prepared for, and, um, absence can be 00:29:05.541 --> 00:29:09.231 worked through proactively, just like we're talking about here. 00:29:09.231 --> 00:29:13.161 Especially if you have a puppy that comes into the home with a dog that might be 00:29:13.161 --> 00:29:17.331 elderly, but not fully transitioning and going into pre dying yet. 00:29:18.031 --> 00:29:22.981 But if they've only learned their life in the context with another dog in the home 00:29:22.981 --> 00:29:26.671 and then that other dog is getting ready to pass, there are things that people 00:29:26.671 --> 00:29:32.341 can be doing proactively then that will help ease that actual death piece and 00:29:32.491 --> 00:29:35.551 the absence, um, a little bit easier. 00:29:35.736 --> 00:29:35.956 Um. 00:29:37.251 --> 00:29:42.921 But the grief piece afterwards is, you know, it really again, 00:29:42.921 --> 00:29:46.971 is very dependent on the dogs, the relationship that they had. 00:29:46.971 --> 00:29:51.081 I mean, um, but grief is subjective. 00:29:51.081 --> 00:29:54.771 It is very individual to the person, to the animals. 00:29:55.141 --> 00:30:00.181 I'll never forget when one of my, uh, dogs passed and they had been a unit. 00:30:00.181 --> 00:30:04.921 They were my two Papillons and Merlin ran up the stairs and he stopped 00:30:04.921 --> 00:30:07.741 at the top of the stairs and he looked behind him because sweet pea 00:30:07.741 --> 00:30:09.271 would always come up behind him. 00:30:09.691 --> 00:30:12.931 And that was an initial, like, he just couldn't help it. 00:30:12.931 --> 00:30:15.451 It was a complete reflexive move of, are you coming? 00:30:15.811 --> 00:30:16.771 She wasn't there. 00:30:16.771 --> 00:30:19.591 And he did that for about three or four weeks until. 00:30:20.036 --> 00:30:24.686 That past, you know, those, um, those spontaneous bursts of that 00:30:24.686 --> 00:30:28.796 neuro pathway of behavior, which we all know if we've lost a dog, right? 00:30:29.006 --> 00:30:33.836 We go to fill that old bowl that is no longer of a dog that's no longer 00:30:33.836 --> 00:30:38.516 there, or we call their name as we call them in from the yard, and they're. 00:30:39.216 --> 00:30:40.236 Not there anymore. 00:30:40.236 --> 00:30:43.326 And our, our dogs are going to go through that process as well. 00:30:43.326 --> 00:30:45.066 It's not something that we should rush. 00:30:45.456 --> 00:30:49.446 It's um, really this overlap of your grieving and now we're 00:30:49.446 --> 00:30:51.546 learning life in a new context. 00:30:51.576 --> 00:30:58.686 And, um, if you need support, there are plenty of now pet loss, um, grief 00:30:58.686 --> 00:31:03.216 counselors that can help with the, the human version and the animal version. 00:31:03.576 --> 00:31:05.856 But it's also just a part of. 00:31:06.681 --> 00:31:10.491 Being alive on this earth is we're going to experience death 00:31:10.491 --> 00:31:11.571 in some way, shape, or form. 00:31:11.571 --> 00:31:15.501 We don't have to not talk about it or avoid it. 00:31:15.891 --> 00:31:19.461 Um, we can, the more we prep for it and understand how to handle it, 00:31:19.461 --> 00:31:21.531 actually the better everybody does. 00:31:21.831 --> 00:31:22.491 In the end, I. 00:31:23.286 --> 00:31:26.886 Kathy: So this brings us to what I think, so of course I'm the puppy person, 00:31:26.886 --> 00:31:31.476 but if I were just a dog owner on this planet, I would say the reason to buy 00:31:31.476 --> 00:31:37.476 this book is for Helen's chapter on, um, on when it's time for your older dog. 00:31:37.506 --> 00:31:39.786 You know, this is, we get these questions all the time. 00:31:39.786 --> 00:31:44.316 So do all, every vet, every trainer, how do I know when it's time and 00:31:44.316 --> 00:31:46.056 what's that gonna be like in. 00:31:47.176 --> 00:31:50.716 You know, we have this general discomfort with death. 00:31:51.076 --> 00:31:53.686 We don't wanna see it, we don't wanna think about it. 00:31:53.686 --> 00:31:59.656 And it does contribute to a lot of folks not quite recognizing the signs that their 00:31:59.656 --> 00:32:04.456 dog is declining and they're, they're not noticing they should be adjusting 00:32:04.456 --> 00:32:05.656 their behavior a little bit more. 00:32:05.806 --> 00:32:09.946 Their dog is having a lot of trouble crossing the slippery wood floor and 00:32:09.946 --> 00:32:13.126 a lot of trouble going upstairs and trouble, and it come to think of it 00:32:13.126 --> 00:32:15.466 isn't getting on the couch anymore and. 00:32:15.706 --> 00:32:19.006 Is avoiding, you know, used to love Thanksgiving when everybody came over. 00:32:19.006 --> 00:32:21.946 Now is kind of seeking to be in the back room at that time. 00:32:22.666 --> 00:32:25.486 It's super important to notice all those things. 00:32:25.486 --> 00:32:31.366 And Helen talks about that, about, you know, be, be aware, be aware of, of the 00:32:31.366 --> 00:32:33.796 changes that your seniors going through. 00:32:34.126 --> 00:32:35.416 The more aware you are. 00:32:35.721 --> 00:32:40.131 The more ready you'll be to decide, um, when it's time. 00:32:40.131 --> 00:32:43.791 And a lot of people, you know, um, my daughter works at a vet. 00:32:43.791 --> 00:32:48.711 She's, um, she's in vet school and there's just a lot of folks 00:32:48.711 --> 00:32:50.481 who come in and are just not. 00:32:51.036 --> 00:32:52.146 Ready at all. 00:32:52.146 --> 00:32:56.676 And the, the vets are sitting there hoping, hoping, hoping that the people 00:32:56.676 --> 00:33:02.256 will be coming in and agreeing to put this poor animal out of its misery. 00:33:02.526 --> 00:33:05.346 But instead they want the vet to do every little thing. 00:33:05.946 --> 00:33:07.746 Um, and believe it or not, you know, a lot of people think the 00:33:07.746 --> 00:33:10.926 vets wanna make a bunch of money and, you know, um, keep these dogs. 00:33:10.926 --> 00:33:11.736 They do not. 00:33:12.036 --> 00:33:13.926 They are sitting there waiting for you to see. 00:33:13.971 --> 00:33:18.201 See the light that this is, we have, we are so lucky that we get 00:33:18.201 --> 00:33:21.771 to decide to, that our friends don't have to suffer this way. 00:33:22.221 --> 00:33:26.181 Um, but instead we let them suffer this way and we kind of hope they're gonna 00:33:26.181 --> 00:33:31.311 have a natural death, which as Helen talks about, like it's, it's natural death is 00:33:31.311 --> 00:33:32.841 not the sweet little thing that you think. 00:33:32.871 --> 00:33:36.471 They do not go downstairs, curl up in their little bed and just go night night. 00:33:36.501 --> 00:33:39.021 It is a lot of suffering and. 00:33:39.176 --> 00:33:44.186 Often what happens is that people are hoping for that they can't face 00:33:44.186 --> 00:33:48.266 the euthanasia decision, and then they end up with a crisis, and the 00:33:48.266 --> 00:33:53.426 crisis is terribly painful for the dog, and so then they rush to the er. 00:33:53.696 --> 00:33:56.486 Now, this is lots of stress, lots of trauma. 00:33:56.821 --> 00:33:59.971 And then it's not inappropriate to think about the finances. 00:33:59.971 --> 00:34:04.081 So, you know, sometimes this can just be an extraordinary stress on the 00:34:04.081 --> 00:34:09.271 family for a dog that quite honestly, we probably should have let go last week 00:34:09.361 --> 00:34:12.541 and we could have done in a peaceful, controlled manner with the whole 00:34:12.541 --> 00:34:15.241 family calmly ready to say goodbye. 00:34:15.451 --> 00:34:21.091 Anyway, I'm just saying Helen's chapter on this will help anybody to start to 00:34:21.091 --> 00:34:25.471 come to grips with this and um, be ready. 00:34:25.881 --> 00:34:31.641 To move through this really important, even beautiful part of your dog's 00:34:31.641 --> 00:34:34.281 journey, um, with some grace. 00:34:34.941 --> 00:34:35.361 Anke: Hmm. 00:34:35.486 --> 00:34:35.966 I love that. 00:34:36.046 --> 00:34:36.406 I love that. 00:34:36.446 --> 00:34:40.791 I mean, I, I was too, and I always like, funny enough, actually the, 00:34:41.301 --> 00:34:45.741 that was always my big question, you know, it was like, how would I know? 00:34:45.741 --> 00:34:48.796 Because I always thought, I don't want. 00:34:50.391 --> 00:34:53.721 I don't want him to suffer because I can't let go. 00:34:53.961 --> 00:34:57.081 I don't wanna, you know, like I don't wanna kill off a perfectly fine 00:34:57.081 --> 00:34:58.551 and I don't wanna kill off a dog. 00:34:58.551 --> 00:34:59.331 That's fine. 00:34:59.331 --> 00:35:02.511 And could have easily recovered, you know, that's just a little off, 00:35:02.931 --> 00:35:06.081 you know, there's a stomach bug and I'm like, oh my God, he's gonna die. 00:35:06.111 --> 00:35:06.771 Like he's. 00:35:07.631 --> 00:35:12.606 I, I didn't wanna sort of cut him off, but I also, almost more importantly, 00:35:12.606 --> 00:35:16.536 didn't want to drag him out just because I can't let go, because 00:35:16.536 --> 00:35:17.796 I'm like, you don't deserve that. 00:35:17.886 --> 00:35:19.716 You don't deserve one day of suffering. 00:35:19.716 --> 00:35:24.036 Just because I'm like a selfish human who can't let go, you know? 00:35:24.036 --> 00:35:29.346 And I was actually with both dogs, really surprised how clear it was. 00:35:30.936 --> 00:35:37.116 It's almost like, you know, like literally it, like for both in both cases, you know, 00:35:37.116 --> 00:35:41.586 it was so now I have a whole different, like, okay, I'll know, like now I'm 00:35:41.586 --> 00:35:45.816 kind of what the two I have now is like, I'll know when it's time because the 00:35:45.816 --> 00:35:48.906 other two have communicated so clearly. 00:35:48.906 --> 00:35:52.446 There was literally no doubt in the moment and that was always my biggest 00:35:52.446 --> 00:35:54.726 fear to kind of like make them. 00:35:55.446 --> 00:35:58.176 You know, hang in there for longer then. 00:35:58.476 --> 00:35:59.346 Then it's fair. 00:36:00.156 --> 00:36:05.136 Helen: Sometimes, sometimes, you know, and from doing, I mean, I'm on now, 00:36:05.466 --> 00:36:09.936 uh, I think I have 450 euthanasia, uh, in the last three years. 00:36:09.936 --> 00:36:14.886 So this is something, uh, I am present for letting dogs, senior dogs go at 00:36:14.886 --> 00:36:16.386 least three or four times a week. 00:36:16.446 --> 00:36:17.646 I did one this morning. 00:36:17.646 --> 00:36:20.196 Um, and that is. 00:36:20.491 --> 00:36:26.041 The, the, the biggest myth out there is that the dog will tell you, um, 00:36:26.101 --> 00:36:29.401 and there are wonderful experiences where people will say, I will 00:36:29.401 --> 00:36:31.441 absolutely know when it is time. 00:36:31.441 --> 00:36:35.971 The hardest part though, is that when people, either the person like yourself 00:36:35.971 --> 00:36:41.371 says, I know it's time, but the spouse or the family members are not ready for that. 00:36:41.761 --> 00:36:42.451 Um. 00:36:42.796 --> 00:36:45.526 Or when the animal really won't tell you. 00:36:45.526 --> 00:36:48.646 So a, a great example of a personal dog, not even a a 00:36:48.646 --> 00:36:50.176 one of the seniors was my dog. 00:36:50.596 --> 00:36:52.126 Uh, Paddington had lupus. 00:36:52.126 --> 00:36:56.296 And Lupus is a miserable, terrible disease, um, 00:36:56.326 --> 00:36:57.916 especially for senior dogs and. 00:36:58.811 --> 00:37:01.001 Paddington was really, really suffering. 00:37:01.001 --> 00:37:04.721 But he would never, ever tell me he was ready to go because 00:37:04.721 --> 00:37:06.101 he would never want to leave me. 00:37:06.581 --> 00:37:12.551 So I had to really weigh the three most important things, which I look at, which 00:37:12.551 --> 00:37:17.051 is function, physical function, his purpose being fulfilled, and then joy, 00:37:17.081 --> 00:37:18.806 whether he was experiencing joy and. 00:37:19.516 --> 00:37:23.926 Make the decision for him where it was like, I know that you're never going 00:37:23.926 --> 00:37:27.046 to say you want to leave me because that's the kind of dog that you are. 00:37:27.526 --> 00:37:32.326 I'm going to now tell you that I'm not gonna prolong your suffering to ease my 00:37:32.326 --> 00:37:36.526 own when it is inevitable that at some point you're going to pass, I'm going 00:37:36.526 --> 00:37:38.776 to make it as easy for you as possible. 00:37:39.166 --> 00:37:42.406 And that's something that I think people have to become much more 00:37:42.406 --> 00:37:46.186 comfortable with is proactively saying. 00:37:47.016 --> 00:37:52.986 I'm going to let you go on the best last day rather than wait for you to tell me. 00:37:52.986 --> 00:37:55.596 And there's no right or wrong. 00:37:55.626 --> 00:37:59.976 There are definitely scenarios where you will say like, wow, I've, again, with 00:37:59.976 --> 00:38:03.426 the oldies where I'll look at a dog and I'll say, absolutely, I know it's time. 00:38:03.426 --> 00:38:08.406 And then there are others that will pull a rug out completely from under me and I 00:38:08.406 --> 00:38:10.896 will say, oh my God, I waited too long. 00:38:10.896 --> 00:38:13.716 Or I need to remind myself and, and all of that. 00:38:13.716 --> 00:38:14.796 And so. 00:38:15.206 --> 00:38:19.166 The whole point of the, that piece in the book is to give us those checks 00:38:19.166 --> 00:38:24.536 and balances that are easier than a lot of quality of life workshop, uh, 00:38:24.536 --> 00:38:28.136 worksheets that you'll find online are these like scores where you'll 00:38:28.136 --> 00:38:31.946 be like one through five or this or that, and then you get a number at the 00:38:31.946 --> 00:38:35.336 end of it, and the number tells you what the animal's quality of life is. 00:38:35.336 --> 00:38:40.576 And that's really sticky to start to get into because you'll start fudging numbers 00:38:40.576 --> 00:38:43.846 because you'll look down at the end and you'll be like, well, if I just put a four 00:38:43.846 --> 00:38:46.126 here, then he's technically on that scale. 00:38:46.546 --> 00:38:49.651 Um, and I hate that the spreadsheet, right? 00:38:49.721 --> 00:38:51.766 Well, it's, it's like an Excel spreadsheet. 00:38:51.796 --> 00:38:52.336 No, it's true. 00:38:52.396 --> 00:38:55.666 And people will fudge it because they don't wanna see it. 00:38:55.666 --> 00:39:00.136 And if you just lay it out for like, how is my dog moving, eating and sleeping? 00:39:00.876 --> 00:39:04.896 How is my dog experiencing joy and how is my dog purpose like? 00:39:05.016 --> 00:39:10.566 It makes it a lot easier to truly get yourself in check of what 00:39:10.566 --> 00:39:14.916 you're seeing and us dog people have a much easier time with that. 00:39:15.126 --> 00:39:18.846 Again, we have to remember that the general public that don't do this all 00:39:18.846 --> 00:39:23.226 day, every day are gonna be able to do have that kind of check and balance. 00:39:23.826 --> 00:39:28.566 Kathy: And, and a so often we hear, you know, if he wagged 00:39:28.566 --> 00:39:29.826 his tail, he wagged his tail. 00:39:29.826 --> 00:39:30.906 So he is not ready to go. 00:39:31.206 --> 00:39:33.156 He's eating or he, he's eating, he's eating. 00:39:33.636 --> 00:39:38.796 And so this is what, where Helen's purpose and joy situation really comes in. 00:39:38.796 --> 00:39:42.066 So the, the, they, maybe they can move around kind of okay. 00:39:42.066 --> 00:39:43.566 And they're eating and they're wagging their tail. 00:39:43.566 --> 00:39:46.866 So yes, they still love you, but that tail wag was 30 seconds. 00:39:46.866 --> 00:39:47.196 What about. 00:39:47.826 --> 00:39:52.386 The other 23 hours and however many seconds that is, I don't do math. 00:39:52.881 --> 00:39:56.556 Um, so, um, and so that's also 00:39:56.556 --> 00:39:59.256 Helen: why I didn't like those checklists, because then I had to add it. 00:39:59.256 --> 00:39:59.976 You have to add, 00:40:00.036 --> 00:40:00.456 Kathy: you have to add. 00:40:00.456 --> 00:40:01.086 We don't do that. 00:40:01.206 --> 00:40:02.736 We, we just, you know, do a motion. 00:40:03.036 --> 00:40:06.156 Um, so, uh, but the purpose. 00:40:06.576 --> 00:40:11.166 Part and the joy part, and I love how Helen splits those. 00:40:11.226 --> 00:40:17.046 Um, so the joy part would be, you know, cuddling with you, lying 00:40:17.046 --> 00:40:21.786 in the sun, sniffing out, uh, in the yard, that kind of stuff. 00:40:22.026 --> 00:40:25.656 The purpose thing is a little harder, I think, for some people to spot, but 00:40:25.656 --> 00:40:29.526 it would be kind of like if you've got a terrier and they just love 00:40:29.526 --> 00:40:33.666 to dig and look for stuff in your yard, you know, can they still dig? 00:40:34.146 --> 00:40:36.936 Can they still get out in the yard and do that? 00:40:37.236 --> 00:40:41.796 And if they can't, can you for a little while anyway, support that a little bit. 00:40:41.826 --> 00:40:45.786 Like can you give them a pile of blankets to dig in to give them kind 00:40:45.786 --> 00:40:49.866 of that feeling that their jeans are telling them they're a terrier and 00:40:49.866 --> 00:40:50.946 they should be digging for stuff. 00:40:50.946 --> 00:40:53.556 Can you hide something in a pile of blankets and have 'em dig 00:40:53.736 --> 00:40:56.586 if they can no longer kind of navigate going outside or whatever. 00:40:56.856 --> 00:40:58.116 But that's gonna be a short. 00:40:58.116 --> 00:40:59.241 Term kind of thing. 00:40:59.331 --> 00:41:03.351 And so you really want to be thinking about, you know, 00:41:03.351 --> 00:41:05.271 is your dog's purpose more? 00:41:05.271 --> 00:41:08.871 Is is it barking off the, um, squirrels on the 00:41:08.871 --> 00:41:09.321 Helen: deck? 00:41:09.381 --> 00:41:09.921 Yeah, the 00:41:09.921 --> 00:41:11.781 Kathy: squirrels on the deck, stuff like that. 00:41:11.781 --> 00:41:16.251 Like, so are they still able to do that or are you realizing they are just 00:41:16.251 --> 00:41:18.291 lying on the kitchen floor and not even. 00:41:18.801 --> 00:41:20.901 Uh, lifting up their head to see those squirrels. 00:41:21.471 --> 00:41:22.911 You're gonna wanna not see it. 00:41:23.031 --> 00:41:25.791 You're gonna wanna see, well, he ate the piece of bacon I 00:41:25.791 --> 00:41:27.261 gave him, so it's not time. 00:41:27.621 --> 00:41:34.341 And we are just encouraging you to look a little deeper and, um, make sure that, you 00:41:34.341 --> 00:41:38.511 know, everyone's line is gonna be a little bit different about quality of life. 00:41:38.601 --> 00:41:41.181 It's gonna be a little different, but we're just gonna encourage 00:41:41.181 --> 00:41:42.411 you to think about that. 00:41:42.931 --> 00:41:46.321 Ahead of time and loop in your family member we'd, you know, 00:41:46.351 --> 00:41:48.121 talk to everybody beforehand. 00:41:48.121 --> 00:41:52.261 Sometimes a big sticking point is, you know, the family dog has been around 00:41:52.261 --> 00:41:57.841 forever, and then the kid goes to college and the dog is in total decline and 00:41:57.841 --> 00:42:01.681 everybody wants to wait till Thanksgiving till the kid's home, and it's like. 00:42:02.226 --> 00:42:06.336 Ooh, let's have that discussion so that, 'cause you're worried, 00:42:06.336 --> 00:42:08.226 this will surprise Johnny. 00:42:08.226 --> 00:42:09.276 He won't know. 00:42:09.276 --> 00:42:13.086 Well, he should know because you should have that discussion the summer before 00:42:13.326 --> 00:42:17.076 you got, as soon as your dog starts to just get into those senior years. 00:42:17.076 --> 00:42:18.366 It's a great idea. 00:42:18.366 --> 00:42:21.456 Before it's an emergency, before you're crying before. 00:42:22.141 --> 00:42:23.551 Your checkbook is evolved. 00:42:24.091 --> 00:42:26.611 It's time to talk about end of life. 00:42:26.611 --> 00:42:27.811 This is part of life. 00:42:27.811 --> 00:42:29.911 We shouldn't shy away from that. 00:42:29.911 --> 00:42:33.481 And the more you talk about that, the better your decisions are gonna be. 00:42:36.121 --> 00:42:37.111 Anke: Makes so much sense. 00:42:37.561 --> 00:42:42.001 And it has like it has an air of peace around it. 00:42:42.666 --> 00:42:47.931 When you don't kind of hide it and kind of trying to stuff your head in the, in 00:42:47.931 --> 00:42:49.896 the sand to kind of avoid it, you know? 00:42:50.196 --> 00:42:51.156 Helen: Absolutely. 00:42:51.396 --> 00:42:51.906 Absolutely. 00:42:51.906 --> 00:42:52.176 Yeah. 00:42:52.361 --> 00:42:55.596 It's, and you can, and you can, no, yeah. 00:42:55.716 --> 00:42:59.766 You, you're completely right is you what you have to understand when you talk 00:42:59.766 --> 00:43:04.026 about death or you face death head on, just like we're talking about with the 00:43:04.026 --> 00:43:05.946 puppies, it's like there's, you know. 00:43:06.996 --> 00:43:11.706 You're not gonna feel good about the, like when I talk about pe to people, about 00:43:11.706 --> 00:43:16.356 having discussions about making decisions for euthanasia, there's no way that you're 00:43:16.356 --> 00:43:19.986 getting out of this feeling great, right? 00:43:19.986 --> 00:43:21.606 Like, no one, right? 00:43:21.666 --> 00:43:24.006 Like there's, there's just no way. 00:43:24.006 --> 00:43:29.556 But there are ways to lessen regret and guilt. 00:43:29.586 --> 00:43:30.126 Yes. 00:43:30.516 --> 00:43:31.026 And. 00:43:31.446 --> 00:43:34.746 W that doesn't, it's not involved with the grief. 00:43:34.746 --> 00:43:37.416 The grief is coming no matter what, but you can lessen the 00:43:37.416 --> 00:43:39.306 regret and the gr and the guilt. 00:43:39.366 --> 00:43:44.076 And um, I always say to people like, I would much rather. 00:43:45.066 --> 00:43:51.066 Have the grief come earlier than the grief come at the, at the time, no matter what. 00:43:51.066 --> 00:43:53.346 I'm gonna feel that, but then go, oh my God. 00:43:53.346 --> 00:43:57.066 I could have, should have, would've, why did I do, why did I wait? 00:43:57.066 --> 00:43:58.716 Why did I let that happen? 00:43:58.776 --> 00:44:00.756 Um, especially with the oldies, because. 00:44:01.306 --> 00:44:06.526 You know, they don't deserve that at my own expense for my selfish reasons. 00:44:06.556 --> 00:44:07.726 And it's hard. 00:44:07.786 --> 00:44:12.916 I don't, I take on these old dogs knowing that whether they have 24 hours 00:44:12.916 --> 00:44:16.546 or they have three months or a year, they're not going to be here forever. 00:44:16.726 --> 00:44:19.306 So I just have to surrender to like whatever they. 00:44:19.611 --> 00:44:21.891 Tell me they want or they need and go with it. 00:44:21.891 --> 00:44:23.391 If it's not gonna feel good no matter what and you stay in, 00:44:24.021 --> 00:44:27.021 Kathy: no, but you do stay in the moment and you have a lot of joy with 00:44:27.021 --> 00:44:30.921 all these guys who may, well, who knows to today you have 14, who knows 00:44:30.921 --> 00:44:31.971 who's gonna still be here tomorrow? 00:44:32.151 --> 00:44:32.271 Yep. 00:44:32.676 --> 00:44:33.636 Yep, a hundred percent. 00:44:33.636 --> 00:44:34.026 We walk in that room. 00:44:34.236 --> 00:44:37.116 There is, everyone is having a good day. 00:44:37.476 --> 00:44:38.766 And that's just huge. 00:44:38.766 --> 00:44:43.086 And this is what I sometimes see dog owners, this is really what's 00:44:43.086 --> 00:44:48.876 at play when they are resisting euthanasia because they're replaying. 00:44:49.176 --> 00:44:50.106 Wait a sec, wait a sec. 00:44:50.136 --> 00:44:53.226 We didn't, we didn't go to the river, but, but we didn't, we do, we, we 00:44:53.226 --> 00:44:54.966 haven't played with Bower in a long time. 00:44:54.966 --> 00:44:55.686 Wait, wait. 00:44:56.236 --> 00:45:02.476 And what I want everyone to lean into is, um, every day leave, lean into today. 00:45:02.476 --> 00:45:03.856 What can you do with your dog today? 00:45:03.856 --> 00:45:07.066 What can you do with your puppy and your adult dog and your senior dog 00:45:07.426 --> 00:45:14.146 today so that when sadness approaches later, you are not filled with a bunch 00:45:14.146 --> 00:45:19.906 of regret and, and trying to pack in to the last three days where your dog. 00:45:20.001 --> 00:45:24.141 Feels terrible by the way, and does not anymore want to go to Stupid River, right? 00:45:24.321 --> 00:45:29.151 The dog wanted to go to the Heavenly River a long time ago, so you 00:45:29.151 --> 00:45:31.701 gotta, you know, enjoy your dog. 00:45:31.731 --> 00:45:33.111 Like, enjoy them now. 00:45:33.111 --> 00:45:35.661 Like, and, and I, I know, I just sound all you know. 00:45:36.501 --> 00:45:39.861 I don't mean taking, you know, your entire day. 00:45:39.861 --> 00:45:44.271 I mean, make sure that every morning, so every morning we have porch time, 00:45:44.331 --> 00:45:49.071 so I have my coffee, it's like 15 to half minutes to half an hour. 00:45:49.401 --> 00:45:50.871 Tom and I go on the porch. 00:45:50.901 --> 00:45:54.651 We have our coffee, the four dogs, and often the cat are sitting there. 00:45:54.651 --> 00:45:55.881 We all settle in. 00:45:56.211 --> 00:45:57.741 They get to watch all that. 00:45:57.826 --> 00:46:03.856 All the intruders who are, who are passing by, um, and uh, and we're all just 00:46:03.856 --> 00:46:05.866 peacefully sitting there, they settle in. 00:46:06.226 --> 00:46:12.076 That doesn't take a lot from me, but it is a fundamental part of 00:46:12.076 --> 00:46:13.816 the pattern of our life together. 00:46:13.816 --> 00:46:16.456 And when it is time to put someone. 00:46:16.896 --> 00:46:21.906 When, when we start to approach somebody's senior hood, I'm gonna remind myself, 00:46:22.266 --> 00:46:26.676 boy, they had that every morning and they loved that so much, and so I just would 00:46:26.676 --> 00:46:30.846 encourage you to try to add, I mean, we have more than that too, but still add 00:46:30.846 --> 00:46:35.586 stuff so that you aren't filled with that weird guilt and regret at the end. 00:46:35.616 --> 00:46:40.206 When it is time to face your dog's death, don't make it harder on 00:46:40.206 --> 00:46:43.116 yourself by not filling their days Now. 00:46:43.881 --> 00:46:49.131 With lovely connection with lovely interspecies life in your home, meet their 00:46:49.131 --> 00:46:50.991 needs, give 'em a chance to be a dog. 00:46:51.021 --> 00:46:51.891 Hang out with them. 00:46:51.891 --> 00:46:57.201 Do that stuff so that when you do come to the end, it is simpler, not easy. 00:46:58.491 --> 00:46:59.181 Less complicated. 00:46:59.181 --> 00:46:59.221 Helen: Yeah. 00:46:59.221 --> 00:47:01.581 So you that's, that's my woods walks Kathy, like with the, yes. 00:47:01.586 --> 00:47:02.856 And we take the oldies. 00:47:02.856 --> 00:47:05.886 So we've just constructed a sanctuary, this old dog beach, which 00:47:05.886 --> 00:47:08.646 is this place with the stream and it's got a bridge and everything. 00:47:08.646 --> 00:47:12.516 And our goal is like we take them down there and for me it's like if 00:47:12.516 --> 00:47:15.006 I take them down there and they have a great day, and then later on in 00:47:15.006 --> 00:47:16.776 the day they crash and they pass. 00:47:17.091 --> 00:47:23.301 On, they will have still had such a great, like, it, it, it's so huge. 00:47:23.331 --> 00:47:24.861 What Kathy is saying is exactly right. 00:47:25.131 --> 00:47:26.061 Yes, it's huge. 00:47:26.211 --> 00:47:28.281 Anke: And you know what I'm hearing in all of this? 00:47:28.671 --> 00:47:32.691 It's like, yet again, you know, dogs are just the best 00:47:32.691 --> 00:47:34.191 teachers because all of that. 00:47:34.611 --> 00:47:38.091 Wouldn't we also wanna apply that to our own lives? 00:47:38.901 --> 00:47:39.201 Helen: Yes. 00:47:39.201 --> 00:47:39.446 You know. 00:47:40.026 --> 00:47:40.506 Hundred percent. 00:47:40.506 --> 00:47:40.566 Yeah. 00:47:40.596 --> 00:47:46.416 That that's what we, you know, you, if you work around death and life, 00:47:46.416 --> 00:47:50.946 honestly a lot in, on the, in this aspect of life coming in and the, the 00:47:51.066 --> 00:47:57.666 fragileness and the way that, you know, it's, so we, we look at like, oh, it's. 00:47:57.671 --> 00:48:02.621 So, but life can be really, really fragile and very tumultuous in those early when 00:48:02.621 --> 00:48:04.721 puppies are being born and all of that. 00:48:04.811 --> 00:48:08.621 And then when you are working around death, you really are humbled that like 00:48:08.681 --> 00:48:10.481 you can't take anything for granted. 00:48:10.931 --> 00:48:14.411 Um, and I think that's what working with senior dogs has taught me. 00:48:14.711 --> 00:48:16.121 And, um. 00:48:16.526 --> 00:48:18.326 Definitely with, I'm the same way. 00:48:18.326 --> 00:48:22.196 At least if, if something were to happen to me, I would've at least 00:48:22.196 --> 00:48:26.036 gone on my woods, walk with my dogs and had my coffee on the porch. 00:48:26.041 --> 00:48:26.861 That's how you wanna go. 00:48:26.921 --> 00:48:27.181 Anke: You know 00:48:27.361 --> 00:48:29.576 Helen: why you wanna live your own life every day. 00:48:29.576 --> 00:48:32.336 I would've done something that has brought me purpose and joy. 00:48:32.341 --> 00:48:32.621 Yeah. 00:48:32.696 --> 00:48:33.056 Anke: Yeah. 00:48:33.056 --> 00:48:34.526 Regret free living, right? 00:48:34.616 --> 00:48:34.946 Yes. 00:48:35.216 --> 00:48:39.326 So where can people go and get the book and find out more about the two of you? 00:48:40.611 --> 00:48:41.121 Kathy: Go ahead Kathy. 00:48:41.121 --> 00:48:44.211 So it's available wherever you like to buy your books. 00:48:44.241 --> 00:48:45.651 Uh, it is available. 00:48:45.651 --> 00:48:47.091 It's old dog, new dog. 00:48:47.091 --> 00:48:47.301 Wait. 00:48:47.301 --> 00:48:49.161 I always have to look to see what the subhead is. 00:48:49.161 --> 00:48:54.651 Hang after old dog, new dog, supporting your aging friend and welcoming a new one. 00:48:54.651 --> 00:48:54.981 So. 00:48:55.006 --> 00:48:55.576 That's it. 00:48:55.936 --> 00:48:59.416 Um, it's got darling little golden retrievers on the cover. 00:48:59.806 --> 00:49:02.626 Um, anyway, it's available wherever you, um, find your books. 00:49:02.746 --> 00:49:05.416 Um, you can find me, both of us have websites. 00:49:05.416 --> 00:49:09.286 I have, mine is, um, puppy picks.com. 00:49:09.706 --> 00:49:11.686 Um, I do, I have other books too. 00:49:11.776 --> 00:49:15.466 Um, and I do, I do training, I do do Zooms for, you know, 00:49:15.466 --> 00:49:17.236 wherever your, um, listeners are. 00:49:17.506 --> 00:49:19.156 I do do, um, a lot of. 00:49:20.341 --> 00:49:23.221 Emergency puppy zooms for people who are like, wait, wait. 00:49:23.281 --> 00:49:24.961 I just, I, what did I do? 00:49:24.961 --> 00:49:26.671 I ruined my life and I have a puppy. 00:49:26.671 --> 00:49:31.651 So I do do a lot of zooms that, that are, uh, you know, aimed at helping people 00:49:31.651 --> 00:49:34.561 to put, put one foot in front of the other after having gotten their puppy. 00:49:34.621 --> 00:49:36.781 I'm usually, uh, that works pretty well. 00:49:37.321 --> 00:49:38.611 Um, so that's me. 00:49:39.326 --> 00:49:42.026 Helen: And then I am, um, there's two ways to find me. 00:49:42.026 --> 00:49:44.126 If you're interested in the sanctuary work. 00:49:44.126 --> 00:49:45.026 It's old dogs. 00:49:45.026 --> 00:49:46.286 Go to helen.com 00:49:46.406 --> 00:49:51.386 and there's a learning center there, which, um, where I teach a, a 00:49:51.386 --> 00:49:55.256 course called The Good Death, which is talking about implementing and 00:49:55.256 --> 00:49:59.336 how to measure function, purpose, and joy with our senior dogs. 00:49:59.366 --> 00:50:04.946 And really looking at that, um, from a more broad, broad perspective. 00:50:05.276 --> 00:50:08.726 Um, and then if you're interested in, uh, my. 00:50:09.006 --> 00:50:11.196 End of life consults or anything like that. 00:50:11.196 --> 00:50:15.546 My, my, uh, or training is no monkey business dog training.com. 00:50:15.546 --> 00:50:18.846 The book, the link for the book is also on my training website. 00:50:18.846 --> 00:50:21.186 It's not on the Sanctuary website because it's just. 00:50:21.621 --> 00:50:23.031 That's messy. 00:50:23.331 --> 00:50:26.571 Um, but yeah, no monkey business dog training and old dogs. 00:50:26.571 --> 00:50:30.081 Go to Helen and you can follow both on Facebook and see lots of 00:50:30.081 --> 00:50:33.771 toothless, geriatric, stinky bald dogs. 00:50:33.771 --> 00:50:34.461 I recommend 00:50:34.461 --> 00:50:35.001 Kathy: you do that. 00:50:35.031 --> 00:50:35.421 Yes. 00:50:35.421 --> 00:50:36.231 It's very funny. 00:50:36.231 --> 00:50:37.011 You should recommend it. 00:50:37.011 --> 00:50:37.881 Very therapeutic. 00:50:37.881 --> 00:50:38.241 Helen: Yes. 00:50:39.346 --> 00:50:43.036 Anke: Well, thank you so much for like unpacking this really. 00:50:44.496 --> 00:50:49.476 And beautiful topic and thanks for putting your wisdom into the book so 00:50:49.476 --> 00:50:51.846 other people can get a glimpse of it. 00:50:52.296 --> 00:50:54.966 Uh, they don't have the luxury of meeting you on Zoom, 00:50:55.326 --> 00:50:56.016 Kathy: so thank you. 00:50:56.016 --> 00:50:56.826 Well, thanks. 00:50:56.826 --> 00:50:57.966 Thank you so much for having us. 00:50:57.966 --> 00:50:58.596 We appreciate it. 00:51:00.064 --> 00:51:01.294 Thanks so much for listening. 00:51:01.814 --> 00:51:06.114 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:51:06.214 --> 00:51:07.994 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:51:08.784 --> 00:51:12.274 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:51:12.704 --> 00:51:18.274 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:51:18.374 --> 00:51:20.744 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:51:20.744 --> 00:51:24.474 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:51:24.894 --> 00:51:26.034 I'd love an introduction. 00:51:26.514 --> 00:51:28.344 Email me at Anke. 00:51:28.614 --> 00:51:32.849 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.