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Welcome to the Count Me In podcast.
I'm your host, Adam Larson.

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And my guest today is Tamara Ghandour,

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a leader in the field of human-centric
innovation and its pivotal role in

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helping individuals and businesses
create breakthrough outcomes.

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Tomorrow is the president
of launch street,

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the founder of everyday innovator's tribe,

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the host of her own podcast
and the author of the book.

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Innovation is everybody's business.

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She is also the creator of
the innovation quotient edge,

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a powerful tool for determining
your unique innovation style.

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This was a really insightful conversation
with great tips for unleashing your

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innovation potential.

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So here without further ado is
my talk with Tamara Ghandour.

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So Tamara, thank you so much
for coming on the podcast today.

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I'm really excited to have you on,
and as we talk about innovation today,

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I wanted to kind of focus in a little
bit. so you talk about how innovation is,

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how you win against the winds of change.

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So maybe we can start off by talking
a little bit more about that.

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Yeah, Adam, I think first of
all, thank you for having me.

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I think that's a great place to start
because it sets the stage for why

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innovation is so important and how we
can leverage it in ourselves to add value

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and to contribute and to
carbon niche out for ourselves.

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So here's the thing and I I'm sure we
can do a whole podcast on everything

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that's going on, but let me just kind
of sum up the winds of change for us.

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And the reality of the world
that we're in. So, you know,

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we've got COVID which
accelerated everything.

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So we'll just leave that as the blanket
statement, but on top of that, right,

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we've got AI and technology taking
over a lot of the base jobs.

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A lot of the functions that we have
been known to do as humans in our roles,

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things that we're used to doing, but AI
and technology can now do a lot of that.

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So we've got that happening.

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We've got web 3.0 in the metaverse
coming and kind of how that's going

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to change everything.

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I just heard about a project where
healthcare going on to the metaverse like,

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it's incredible, what's happening over
there. And then on top of that, right,

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you've got decentralized finance,

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you've got the great resignation of
where is everybody and why can't I find

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people to hire or keep people, right?

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You've got that going
on as a wind of change.

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And then we've got a lot of uncertainty
with global politics and just the state

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of the world. So I say all that, and
it sounds like a lot of doom and gloom,

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but let me focus in on where I
think actually it adds to a lot of,

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opportunity, you know, when times
are stable, it breeds efficiency,

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but it also breeds complacency when
times are unstable. Like we're in now,

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it breeds resilience.

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We've seen a lot of that from all
of us in the past couple of years,

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but also innovation, a chance to
change and to innovate. And you know,

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the thing about being an innovator that
I think is so important right now is

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when you look at all of that,
particularly AI and technology,

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that's doing the baseline of our
job. What that actually means.

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If you look at it in the right way,

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is that we have the opportunity to
do something that is uniquely human,

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which is that creative problem
solving that empathy, that innovation,

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that strategic thinking. So we
actually have the ability right now,

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more so than ever with everything going
on to actually bring those insights,

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to bring that innovative mind to the
table and be that strategic voice

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that our clients, our leaders,
our teams, our customers,

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that they all need right now.

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So the uncertainties crazy on
one hand yet on the other hand,

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the winds of change is what allow us
to innovate and shift and change and do

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things in a way that's, that's
different and unique to us.

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Hmm. So, you know, you have this
concept that you talk about a,

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bit as about an everyday innovator.

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So we're talking about innovation
with the winds of change.

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What is that everyday innovator style.

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And why does it matter when
we're trying to have these,

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when we're trying to sail the winds
of change, if you will, .

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I like the way you said that
I'm going to sail the winds.

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That's a great way to
say that. So every day,

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and being an everyday
innovator is so important,

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but let me kind of back up as to
why oftentimes with innovation,

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we buy into these myths and
I see this all the time.

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I've been in business for
25 years now. And you know,

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we think it's Suzie down the hall with
a purple streak or the Elon Musk and the

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Steve jobs and the JK Rowling's and
maybe the Oprahs of the world, right?

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Like they're bestowed with
something that we don't have,

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or we think it's for certain times,

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like the 3:00 PM brainstorm with the SCED
markers and the blank eel pads, right.

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But every other time, just keep
your head down and do your job.

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Or we think that it is, for
certain departments, right?

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Marketing R and D or certain
industries, technologies Silicon valley.

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But that actually is a sliver of
what it means to be an innovator.

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And what I really come to see in my
years of experience is that the best

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innovation comes from the places
where you least expect, right?

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The everyday innovators who are
out there rolling up their sleeves,

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doing their jobs, the best
innovation is small. It's big,

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but it is inside all of us. And, you know,

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I used to believe that a
little bit of those myths too,

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but we did a lot of research.

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We dug into the neuroscience
and to change principles.

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And what we actually found out in our
research is that we all have the ability

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to innovate. So we all have
the structures in it, right?

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Neuroscience shows that it's a whole
brain experience that MRIs light up when

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people create a problem, solve strategic
thinking, you know, think differently.

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and our brains are flexible.
We can actually get stronger.

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It's called neuroplasticity,

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but the way that all comes together and
why it's so important is that Adam is

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you and me in the roles that we do
when we bring innovation to the table

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and what we have right in front of
us, we can get incredible impact.

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We can create those breakthrough
outcomes. So, you know,

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innovation being siloed, just
sabotages it for all of us. When we,

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as everyday innovators, when we
understand that about ourselves,

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when we unleash that about ourselves,

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that's where we start to see
the value and the difference.

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And we see it in individuals, leaders,

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and in teams and how they perform as well.

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It's why we built the assessment
to tell people how they innovate,

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because we wanted people to
say, oh, this is how I innovate.

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Cause I don't know about you, Adam, but
I got pretty tired of hearing people go,

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you need to innovate. And I was like, how?

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And then I would try to
do it the way you did it,

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but it didn't work for me because you
do it in a way that's different than the

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way I do it.

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So understanding your everyday
innovator style allows you to tap

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into what's actually
already inside of you.

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All we're asking you to do is amplify
what you're already incredible out.

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Maybe you're not using it. Maybe
you've been trained out of it,

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but you know what?

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It's a lot easier for me to tomorrow
to innovate in the way I innovate then

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Adam, to try to do you and vice
versa. So that's why it's important.

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That makes sense. Now you've said,

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you've said that anybody can be an
innovator and a lot of times you'll get a

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book by like a Josh Linkner
and you're like, wow,

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look at all this great
innovation that I can do,

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but you may not be able to apply it
exactly how you've seen somebody write it

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out.

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Are there other like sabotages
to innovation within a team

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organization?

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What are some things thatt you you've
seen that kind of prohibit people from

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becoming that innovator?

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Yeah. So, and I, Josh is great by the
way, but I, but I will tell you, you know,

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I,

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I take issue with a lot of the innovation
experts out there because I think they

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give us these big lofty
processes and culture things.

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And the rest of us are like, I can't
give my people 20% to do nothing.

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I I can't do, you know, a kombucha
bar I can't, you know, to,

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for people to collaborate. So
it that's the part that like,

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I could go on a whole soap box about that,

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but I think innovation should be
accessible like in the moment.

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And it should be something that we all
get to do. So when I look at teams,

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I work with a lot of them and there's
a couple things that really sabotage

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innovation inside a team
or inside any organization.

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So one of them is that 3:00 PM
brainstorm with the SCED markers I talked

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about because what we're then doing is
telling our people, Hey, guess what?

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I only want you to innovate for one hour
in this week and that's at a 3:00 PM

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brainstorm, but for all the
other hours you're working,

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just keep your head down.

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And what we're doing is we're actually
minimizing innovation in all the times w

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here actually we would have the
ideas where it would make an impact.

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And then we shuffle into the brainstorm
and we're cold and it's, you know,

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it's dormant and we
haven't used it in a while.

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So that's number one is thinking that
innovation has to be this one hour,

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you know, a week, a month kind of thing.

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When it really should be something we're
doing all the time. Just number one.

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The second big thing is, and I know,
because I have been guilty of this.

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I'm just going to own it early in
my career is we reward outcomes,

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not behaviors. So let me just
share a quick story with you.

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I'm leading a team of about 12 we're
all in innovation. Funny enough, right?

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We're consultants, we're working with
big companies like Proctor and gamble,

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general mills Clorox.

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And one of the things I used to love to
do as a VP is get input from everybody i

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n the organization about challenges. I
would try, I was trying to solve. Now,

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this is pre like everybody's online all
the time. So I would put up no joke,

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an easel pad on the wall. And
in the middle of the circle,

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I would put this like, here's the
challenge I'm trying to figure out.

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We need new revenue streams for X, Y, Z.

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We can't figure out this challenge
on this client, whatever it was.

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And I would ask for people
to submit sticky notes.

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And what I noticed is that I was getting
these great sticky notes from three of

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the 12 people over and over again.
Right. And I thought to myself, love it.

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But what I need is from everybody, right?

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I need all the perspectives to come
together to solve this challenge.

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And I wasn't getting it. So
instead of rewarding the outcome,

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the ideas those people gave
me, I went down to Starbucks,

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I got a bunch of coffee gift cards.
I came back up to the office.

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It's an open floor plan.
I walked in and I said,

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as loud as I could to one of the people
that had submitted ideas, I said, Hey,

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Adam, I want to thank you for submitting
ideas. I haven't looked at 'em.

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I don't even know what they are,

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but I want to reward you for taking
the time and the effort and the

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thoughtfulness to give me your
ideas, handed them a gift card.

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Everybody heard it. And guess what
happened by the end of the day,

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I had sticky notes from everybody, right?

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And I was handing out gift cards.
I needed more all over the place.

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But my point is, the mistake that we
make is we wait for the successor,

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failure to reward or punish. If we
want to drive innovation in a team,

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we need to reward behaviors, not outcomes.

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If we reward taking risks,
giving feedback, collaboration,

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going outta your way to wow, a customer,
whatever it is that you want to reward,

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we'll get more of that. And that
will drive innovation innately.

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When we wait for outcome,
you know what it is.

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I think of it as Russian roulette,

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it's like black or red and you don't
know which one's going to land on.

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You could do all the right
things and still fail.

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You could do all the right
wrong things and still succeed.

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So when we wait for that,
it's like telling our team,

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we want them to play Russian roulette
and nobody wants to play that at work.

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No it, so it sounds like what you're
saying is you have to be proactive.

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If you want to build a team
of high performing innovators,

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you have to be proactive as opposed
to reacting to whatever's going on.

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Am I understanding that correctly?

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Yeah. I, you know what? I think
that's a great, a great lens on it.

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I think you need to be proactive and
intentional in building innovation into

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your culture. And I'm just going
to add a little bit to that.

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I think it has to start
from the human side.

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So this kind of goes to the last
mistake I would say is oftentimes,

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and this is when our phone starts to ring
too, as clients call us and they say,

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all right, I implemented design thinking.

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I implemented fill in the blank process
and my people aren't doing it and it's

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not working. And you know, is it the
process? Is it the like, is it, you know,

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the initiative? Well, first of all,
we all have initiative fatigue.

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Nobody wants more initiative,
but second, you know,

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you need to take a step back, right?

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We need to get the humans on our team
to understand how they innovate and how

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they contribute. And if we start
being proactive about how you and I,

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and everybody on the team has these
different styles of innovation and

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understanding how we can be innovative,

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then the culture and the process kind
of naturally fall out from there of what

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you should do. It's not
that the process is bad.

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It's just that the
people aren't bought in.

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And we just did this
whole thing with a team.

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I loved it so much instead of a
title and job responsibility map.

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And you know how you see like
a hierarchy of a company.

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We did a contribution map where we mapped
out how everybody innovates and how

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that innovation contributes to the
greater change this company was trying to

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make. And I guarantee you, after that,

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it was incredible how high performing
and how innovative and some of the

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solutions that came out of this team.

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It's because we needed to
back up and to say, Hey, look,

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the process and the culture will come,
but let's talk about the people first.

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I really like that. You
kind of gave everybody, Hey,
everybody, this is the why,

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this is why we're here. Yeah.
Let's continue on together.

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And this is where your value is. I that's,

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that would be really encouraging from
an employee standpoint. I like that.

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Well, and imagine for a second,
right, Adam, like let's say,

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I just did this with a team.
It was everybody from the,

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morning receptionist to the CEO,
the morning receptionist now.

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So she came to work and like
loved her job, great person,

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but wasn't feeling connected,
but it turns out, guess what?

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She's the first person the client
sees when they come into the office.

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So she owns the brand to the outside
world and her contributions are how

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she innovates on the spot to make those
people who come in the office feel

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comfortable and welcome and
living the values of the company.

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And she innovates on
the spot all the time.

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Because guess where problems go
wrong? Scheduling people are late.

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Clients are coming in, right?
Like that is a mess up there,

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but she right understands now.

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And the VP understands
how their leadership,

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how that contributes to the
greater change. And, I think,

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especially not just vision, especially
when we're trying to drive change,

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we're trying to figure out new paths.

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We're trying to carve out a new niche
trust with AI and technology and changing

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customer needs and
changing, employee needs.

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We gotta understand how we all
contribute and how we all innovate.

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So can can being an everyday innovator
help reduce stress and minimize burnout.

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00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:06,890
Because I know even just talking to
teammates on our team, we're all saying,

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we're trying not to burnout.
We're trying to make sure,

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especially going from like going
from, all at home to hybrid,

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a lot of places are switching to
hybrid and you're trying not to burn,

260
00:14:16,390 --> 00:14:20,410
but yet there seems to be more things
on our to-do list than not on the to-do

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list. And I liked how
you just said, you know,

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for the receptionist she's innovating
every day as she does her daily tasks and

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does those things, and it's seen
at a more practical application.

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00:14:31,070 --> 00:14:34,160
Yeah. Well that's the
beauty of innovation. Let
me just say this real quick.

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And I want to answer your question
about burnout cause it's so important.

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The way we define innovation at
launch stream and this kind of,

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this is a curated definition that we've
prayed over time working with clients so

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that it's something that's accessible
and empowering to everybody is think

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differently about what's right in
front of you to create an advantage.

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So think differently, right? A new
perspective, create a problem solving on,

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the moments, problem solving, about
what's right in front of you, right?

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Your job, your resources, your challenges,
your opportunities, what you do,

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and then to create an advantage.

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And that advantage could be
a better way to do something,

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a better client interaction, a new
product in the market, whatever it is.

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So that's our definition. I just
want to make sure I say that.

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And for those listening, I would
take that definition to your teams.

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Cause I guarantee you,

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part of the burnout is confusion
of like we need to innovate,

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00:15:17,071 --> 00:15:20,150
but what does that even mean? So
let me get to burnout real quick.

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because I feel you. And I think that the,

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I just actually got off a
plane from Indianapolis.

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00:15:26,351 --> 00:15:29,820
I was with a group of women in
Autocare. So, auto after market,

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00:15:29,890 --> 00:15:32,940
like everything from Jiffy lube to
kind of manufacturing of tinted.

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00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,580
And one of the things I heard loud and
clear before I got there was we are burnt

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00:15:37,581 --> 00:15:39,260
out. We're doing more with less,

287
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,860
our everybody's got 10 more todos
on their plate than ever before.

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00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,530
And on top of that, right,
we've got change and innovate.

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00:15:47,531 --> 00:15:50,130
So not only are we doing more, but
we have to do everything differently,

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00:15:50,131 --> 00:15:54,530
which takes more energy, right? It takes
more thought process. So let me tell,

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00:15:54,531 --> 00:15:57,530
give you a few reasons why
innovation helps with that.

292
00:15:57,531 --> 00:16:00,490
And then some really easy tips
like daily tips to implement.

293
00:16:01,190 --> 00:16:05,440
So when we understand how we innovate
and we tap that natural strength,

294
00:16:05,740 --> 00:16:07,960
here's what happens.
We perform at our peak.

295
00:16:08,580 --> 00:16:10,440
We get into that state
of flow more readily,

296
00:16:10,441 --> 00:16:13,640
meaning like good focused
effort and work, right?

297
00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:15,360
We have more innovative solutions.

298
00:16:15,361 --> 00:16:17,280
So we're not banging our
head against the brick wall.

299
00:16:17,620 --> 00:16:20,640
We see more solutions and
opportunities that we missed before.

300
00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:25,630
so when you think about that for a second,
think of it as innovation metabolism,

301
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,950
when you dial it up,
dial up your innovation,

302
00:16:28,951 --> 00:16:31,990
we'll say you spend five minutes in the
morning doing an exercise that gets you

303
00:16:31,991 --> 00:16:33,270
into kind of more of
an innovative mindset.

304
00:16:33,271 --> 00:16:37,950
And everybody has different ones depending
on their styles that will benefit you

305
00:16:38,130 --> 00:16:40,750
all day long. So part of the burnout,

306
00:16:40,820 --> 00:16:45,020
part of what happens from burnout is
we're on a hamster wheel and we can't

307
00:16:45,021 --> 00:16:45,800
figure out how to get off.

308
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,420
So it's just like we're spinning
and spinning and spinning. Right?

309
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,700
And I could see you
nodding on that. Like it,

310
00:16:50,901 --> 00:16:54,100
just is no fun to feel like you're solving
the same problems and over and over

311
00:16:54,101 --> 00:16:54,800
again,

312
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,020
you are just like losing your mind because
your to-do list is now 10 pages long.

313
00:16:59,021 --> 00:17:01,970
Every time one thing comes off
a hundred other things come on.

314
00:17:01,971 --> 00:17:04,730
That's how I feel. But
when we drive innovation,

315
00:17:05,210 --> 00:17:07,730
I like to think of it as swimming
sideways out of a rip tide.

316
00:17:08,190 --> 00:17:10,330
So instead of just swimming
harder and swimming harder,

317
00:17:10,331 --> 00:17:12,530
which is what we're doing right
now, right? We're all doing it.

318
00:17:12,780 --> 00:17:16,690
Innovation helps us swim out of the
rip tide. So having an innovative,

319
00:17:16,750 --> 00:17:18,609
mind's going to help you
figure out a solution.

320
00:17:18,609 --> 00:17:20,880
That's going to solve a lot of
those things on your to list.

321
00:17:21,070 --> 00:17:23,480
It's going to help you manage
your to-do list in a new way.

322
00:17:23,710 --> 00:17:26,800
It's going to help you get more joy
and satisfaction because it taps the

323
00:17:26,801 --> 00:17:28,720
dopamine in your brain.
The feel good chemicals.

324
00:17:29,420 --> 00:17:33,800
So innovation helps us with burnout
because we get off the hamster wheel and

325
00:17:33,801 --> 00:17:35,400
that's part of what's keeping us in,

326
00:17:35,641 --> 00:17:39,150
exhaustion and it helps us figure
out how do we do the things?

327
00:17:39,170 --> 00:17:41,390
How do we drive solutions
that make everything easier?

328
00:17:41,650 --> 00:17:44,670
So let me give you two quick tips
that help with burnout. One is,

329
00:17:44,770 --> 00:17:49,440
and I learned this from the book,
the one thing, and I think it's it.

330
00:17:49,441 --> 00:17:51,600
Keller Williams, the guy that did
Keller Williams, the paint company.

331
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,200
I can't remember which one wrote it.
So I apologize, but the book is great,

332
00:17:54,460 --> 00:17:55,800
but he talks about he,

333
00:17:55,900 --> 00:18:00,640
the way he picked his to-do list was
what's the one thing by doing this makes

334
00:18:00,660 --> 00:18:03,320
all of the things easier
or makes them go away.

335
00:18:04,030 --> 00:18:06,040
What an innovative way to
look at your to-do list.

336
00:18:06,260 --> 00:18:10,390
So I look at it a little differently,
but I love that as a premise, which is,

337
00:18:10,570 --> 00:18:11,630
what's the one thing,

338
00:18:11,650 --> 00:18:16,350
if I solved this would make these other
problems or these other tasks go away.

339
00:18:16,810 --> 00:18:20,310
And if I solve this with some innovation
and create some real breakthrough,

340
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,230
right? These other things get
easier for me and for my team.

341
00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:28,660
So the question I want everybody asking
themselves is what's the one thing if I

342
00:18:28,670 --> 00:18:33,100
solve this makes everything else easier.
Makes upper other problems go away.

343
00:18:33,540 --> 00:18:35,859
I think part of the reason we're
burned out is we're stuck in the weeds.

344
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:37,580
So we gotta give ourselves
a chance to get up.

345
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,220
I'm going to give you one
other tip. And that is,

346
00:18:40,460 --> 00:18:44,840
I want people to take five to seven
minutes between every task and every

347
00:18:44,841 --> 00:18:48,320
meeting. And here's why, because I
know that sounds like Sacra. Like,

348
00:18:48,321 --> 00:18:51,600
but tomorrow I have so much to do. I
need those five minutes for that email.

349
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,280
I get it. But here's what happens.

350
00:18:53,940 --> 00:18:57,119
The brain needs five to seven
minutes to complete one task,

351
00:18:57,450 --> 00:18:59,480
clear it outta your
brain and go to the next.

352
00:18:59,780 --> 00:19:03,470
But what we do because we're so busy
is we go from task to meeting, to task,

353
00:19:03,471 --> 00:19:06,430
to meeting. And here's what happens
when we don't close out that stuff.

354
00:19:06,770 --> 00:19:09,990
We carry mental residue around.
So by the end of the day,

355
00:19:10,410 --> 00:19:13,350
it is like 10 pounds of
Play-Doh on our heads.

356
00:19:13,770 --> 00:19:18,550
And that is exhausting and leads
to so much burnout. So what I, now,

357
00:19:18,551 --> 00:19:21,980
what my team does all the time is we
always take five to seven minutes of

358
00:19:21,981 --> 00:19:25,820
meditation or movement.
So no Netflix, no emails,

359
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,660
no Instagram like no consuming
stimulus, just five minutes.

360
00:19:29,690 --> 00:19:33,140
Like that's all it takes. But
if you do that between things,

361
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,580
you'll actually be more productive and
more innovative in the things you're

362
00:19:36,581 --> 00:19:39,380
doing. And here's what we do.
Here's our role ready for this?

363
00:19:39,381 --> 00:19:40,850
This is the easiest
one. If you're a leader,

364
00:19:41,460 --> 00:19:45,330
every meeting ends at 20 after
or 50 after, no matter what,

365
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,250
because you feel the time you have,
we don't need those extra 10 minutes.

366
00:19:48,550 --> 00:19:52,810
You need them to get that mental residue
away and to avoid burnout and keep your

367
00:19:52,811 --> 00:19:54,369
energy up. I don't need them.

368
00:19:54,790 --> 00:19:56,490
I'm not going to get more out
of you in those 10 minutes.

369
00:19:56,869 --> 00:20:01,640
So get it done and then give people
the time. Those are my tips. .

370
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,640
I love it. You're talking
to a serial multitasker. My,

371
00:20:06,481 --> 00:20:10,119
colleagues are always like, yeah, Adam's
probably already sent you the email.

372
00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:14,800
Like I'm always multitasking during
meetings and I am a huge habitual.

373
00:20:14,910 --> 00:20:19,230
Like I go from one thing to another
thing and I love that idea of stopping

374
00:20:19,770 --> 00:20:21,670
and letting your brain
rest for a moment. Yeah.

375
00:20:22,550 --> 00:20:25,950
Just five minutes. And even if you in
about five minutes, like take a breath.

376
00:20:25,951 --> 00:20:30,230
Right? I mean it's but, here's the thing.
Do you find Adam? Cause I know I do.

377
00:20:30,369 --> 00:20:30,991
By the end of the,

378
00:20:30,991 --> 00:20:34,510
if I go from task to task meeting
to meeting with like no break,

379
00:20:35,020 --> 00:20:38,700
like there's a little bit of a voice in
the back of my head about the meeting I

380
00:20:38,701 --> 00:20:41,619
had three hours ago. That's still
there and that email oh yeah.

381
00:20:41,620 --> 00:20:44,540
Is still in my head. Like even
if I've completed the task,

382
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,580
it just hasn't left me. Right.

383
00:20:46,609 --> 00:20:49,720
It's just in my brain swirling
around taking up space.

384
00:20:50,020 --> 00:20:54,359
So by the time I get to my two o'clock
meeting, I've got 10% to give that's it.

385
00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:56,720
So, you know, we always say like,

386
00:20:56,721 --> 00:20:59,160
you have to slow down to speed up
and you know, to avoid burnout,

387
00:20:59,310 --> 00:21:04,280
like have people do less. That all sounds
good. But the reality is that's not,

388
00:21:04,460 --> 00:21:06,830
that's, that's not something
a lot of us can implement.

389
00:21:06,850 --> 00:21:11,670
So instead just allow people time to
just turn off for a second and then

390
00:21:11,671 --> 00:21:12,504
turn it back on.

391
00:21:12,690 --> 00:21:16,750
But that turnoff moment will make
a huge difference in how you feel.

392
00:21:17,490 --> 00:21:19,830
So as we kind of, wrap
up the conversation,

393
00:21:19,831 --> 00:21:22,510
this has been a wonderful
conversation. I was,

394
00:21:22,511 --> 00:21:25,619
as you were talking about swimming out
of the stream, as this is going upstream,

395
00:21:25,620 --> 00:21:27,420
it's kind of moving
out of the stream. What

396
00:21:28,940 --> 00:21:33,100
I kind of saw was like to be a better
innovator, to be a good innovator.

397
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,260
You have to kind of change your
perspective or you have to change your

398
00:21:37,261 --> 00:21:40,380
perspective and broaden it because
that's the only way you can see it.

399
00:21:40,381 --> 00:21:43,010
Because even with the grass
you're sitting among the weeds,

400
00:21:43,011 --> 00:21:44,490
it made me think of
honey. I shrunk the kids,

401
00:21:44,910 --> 00:21:48,810
the little kids were down there and
they saw the aunt as this massive thing.

402
00:21:48,811 --> 00:21:51,650
And the parents were almost stepping
on them because they were so, but big.

403
00:21:51,950 --> 00:21:53,250
But until you change your perspective,

404
00:21:53,310 --> 00:21:55,090
you can't understand what
somebody's going through.

405
00:21:55,230 --> 00:21:58,050
You can't understand what it's
like and all and everything else.

406
00:21:58,051 --> 00:22:01,200
And so you have to change
the perspective to get a new,

407
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,119
a new look on what you need to do
to be, to become that innovator.

408
00:22:05,630 --> 00:22:09,560
Yes, I a hundred percent agree.
I love how you said that.

409
00:22:09,580 --> 00:22:13,480
And I'd say there there's two things
that I would encourage people to do to

410
00:22:13,481 --> 00:22:14,480
really become an innovator.

411
00:22:14,590 --> 00:22:17,640
So obviously take the assessment cuz
then you'll know how you innovate.

412
00:22:17,641 --> 00:22:21,390
There's all these different styles,
but there's two things I would say,

413
00:22:21,391 --> 00:22:24,230
change your perspective and
deepen your perspective.

414
00:22:24,231 --> 00:22:27,630
And here's what I mean by that change
is exactly what you just said. Like,

415
00:22:27,631 --> 00:22:31,830
look at it from the perspective of that
ant is huge instead of small, right?

416
00:22:31,831 --> 00:22:34,869
Look at it from a different angle.
If you're in this seat at your job,

417
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:38,300
look at it from your leader's
perspective, your team's perspective,

418
00:22:38,301 --> 00:22:39,740
the client's perspective,

419
00:22:40,580 --> 00:22:44,140
the competitor's perspective is one of
my favorites find a different perspective

420
00:22:44,141 --> 00:22:48,500
to look at it, ask disruptive
questions that get you to new places.

421
00:22:48,501 --> 00:22:51,300
And what I mean by deepen
is, we have a 10 day,

422
00:22:51,301 --> 00:22:53,100
especially when we are
constantly stressed out,

423
00:22:53,101 --> 00:22:55,580
because we're constantly in fight
,flight or freeze, right? We're just,

424
00:22:55,581 --> 00:22:57,210
we're stressed out. So
we stay on the surface.

425
00:22:57,670 --> 00:23:01,050
We stay in our primal brain and
in order to find more innovation,

426
00:23:01,051 --> 00:23:03,930
we need to get past the primal
and get it to our higher function.

427
00:23:04,270 --> 00:23:05,450
So we need to go deeper.

428
00:23:05,790 --> 00:23:08,490
So there's three words that we don't
have time to go into the whole story,

429
00:23:08,950 --> 00:23:10,090
but let me just tell you this.

430
00:23:10,570 --> 00:23:13,810
I was presenting someone asked me a
challenge question. I was panicked.

431
00:23:13,970 --> 00:23:17,560
I needed to like get my feedback under
me. So I said to the person, well,

432
00:23:17,561 --> 00:23:21,480
that's an interesting question. Tell me
more. And in saying those three words,

433
00:23:21,630 --> 00:23:25,280
tell me more. That person told
me about their past experience,

434
00:23:25,380 --> 00:23:27,440
why they were asking this
question, why they were skeptical,

435
00:23:27,441 --> 00:23:28,640
what they were hoping to get out of it,

436
00:23:28,700 --> 00:23:31,200
all the things they didn't
ask or I didn't ask.

437
00:23:31,201 --> 00:23:34,430
And they didn't say we often
jumped to solution too soon.

438
00:23:34,490 --> 00:23:36,830
So the next time someone presents an idea,

439
00:23:37,609 --> 00:23:40,950
asks you a question that you don't know
the, oh, even if you know the answer to,

440
00:23:40,951 --> 00:23:44,510
in fact, especially when you know the
answer, I want you to stop and just go,

441
00:23:44,511 --> 00:23:46,320
oh, that's interesting. Tell me more.

442
00:23:46,321 --> 00:23:51,080
And you'll find so much innovation in
that depth of conversation that we're not

443
00:23:51,081 --> 00:23:52,200
getting. When we stay on the surface.

444
00:23:55,109 --> 00:23:57,440
This has been Count Me In IMA's podcast,

445
00:23:57,790 --> 00:24:00,920
providing you with the latest
perspectives of thought leaders from the

446
00:24:00,921 --> 00:24:03,000
accounting and finance
profession. If you like,

447
00:24:03,001 --> 00:24:06,590
what you heard and you'd
like to be counted in for
more relevant accounting and

448
00:24:06,591 --> 00:24:10,590
finance education, visit IMA's
website at www.imanet.org