Shun:
Mm-mm. Hi, I'm Sean.

Shannon:
Hi, and I'm Shannon, and we're the hosts of Wifey and Baby Mama. Some of you might be a little surprised to hear me open up the show tonight, but as we teased last week, we have a special show tonight because we have the honor of interviewing our own celebrity co-host and author, Yvette LaShawn Gaines, we lovingly call her Shawn. As we discuss, her latest project is a phenomenal novel called A Love the World Should Know. And because we continue to grow globally, as we are now in eight countries, eight

Shun:
Yes.

Shannon:
countries, y'all, we are so proud and happy to have our subscriber base growing across the globe. So because of that, we felt like this is the perfect time to spread the word about the powerful message in Sean's book. And to not only help me tonight with some probing questions, we have a special guest tomorrow as well. Welcome, Tamara. Can you give our listeners a little bit of info about you and your relationship, of course, with our guest? I'm sorry, with our author.

Tamara Zantell:
Hello, everyone. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. Absolutely.

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
It would be my pleasure. So again, like you said, my name is Tamara Zantel. I'm the CEO and founder of Raising a Mogul and Legacy Brand Creators Agency. I have the awesome opportunity to work with young moguls globally and families who want to build sustainable brands, launch. platforms or anything that their wildest dreams that they've ever thought about doing that build

Shun:
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Tamara Zantell:
a family legacy. So I feel like I have like the best job in the world.

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
And you

Shun:
Right.

Tamara Zantell:
asked me about my connection to our celebrity, to your celebrity co-host,

Shun:
I'm going to go

Shannon:
I'm going

Shun:
to

Shannon:
to

Tamara Zantell:
my

Shannon:
go

Shun:
bed.

Shannon:
ahead and

Tamara Zantell:
celebrity

Shannon:
close the video.

Tamara Zantell:
friend, Yvette. Yeah, so listen, I moved. to Buffalo, New York when I was just 16 years old. I was a junior in high school and this young lady became my bestie. All right? So we have been

Shannon:
Hehehe.

Tamara Zantell:
friends since we were 16 years old and we are

Shannon:
Wow.

Tamara Zantell:
years old and we're still out here doing it. Let's just say that. Okay, we're

Shannon:
That's

Tamara Zantell:
still out here doing

Shannon:
all

Tamara Zantell:
it. We

Shannon:
right.

Tamara Zantell:
have not skipped

Shannon:
That's

Tamara Zantell:
a beat,

Shannon:
all right.

Tamara Zantell:
okay?

Shun:
I'm sorry.

Tamara Zantell:
There it is.

Shannon:
Awesome. Welcome. And our listeners, they know we love to have a guest. So welcome. Welcome

Shun:
Absolutely.

Tamara Zantell:
Thank

Shannon:
tomorrow.

Tamara Zantell:
you so

Shun:
Welcome

Tamara Zantell:
much. I'm happy

Shun:
Samara.

Tamara Zantell:
to be here.

Shannon:
Yeah.

Shun:
We're happy

Shannon:
So

Shun:
to

Shannon:
excited.

Shun:
have you, honey.

Shannon:
All right. So our format will be a little different tonight. So we're going to ask Sean some questions and after you listen and you have any additional questions feel free send them to us we'll follow up another week um another time um don't hesitate to reach out all right so let's get started and let me say before I get started with the questions that is I love the book and I've already told Sean this of course but

Shun:
Thank you.

Shannon:
Um, when you say you laugh you cry you laugh you cry that's not an exaggeration people. Um,

Tamara Zantell:
It's just your head.

Shannon:
Not at all, um My emotions were all over the place and

Shun:
I'm going to go to bed.

Shannon:
when it comes from, you know me I think you know People might say oh, wait a minute. You're reading about you know, you're baby daddy. I'm like, yeah, and i'm crying I'm so emotional. I'm like it was just it just touched my heart so much and I just implore everyone to go out and get this book

Shun:
Thank

Shannon:
So,

Shun:
you, sweetheart.

Shannon:
let me let me start with my first

Tamara Zantell:
I couldn't agree more.

Shannon:
oh, yeah

Shun:
Thank you guys.

Shannon:
All right, so my first question is who is this book for?

Shun:
This book is for anyone like me, Shannon, who was born in, you know, less than favorable conditions. And you were told basically since you were a little girl, you saw without being told that this is not a good life. And you decide to either let it roll over you or you roll with it. This book is for anyone who's having a hard time thinking, you know, I'm just one person. Like, what am I supposed to do about changing a whole generation? So was Oprah Winfrey. So was Tyler Perry. So was Harriet Tubman. So was Martin Luther King. They were all one person. So one person is all it takes to change a generational curse, to change a generational legacy. So this book is for anyone who feels like, I've been born into this life, so now what? So now you live it the best of your ability and you decide that you're gonna be the change in your family.

Shannon:
That's awesome.

Tamara Zantell:
I love that. I built a brand on legacy and breaking generational

Shun:
Mm-hmm.

Tamara Zantell:
chains and being challenging the status quo. So like that hits home for me. And I feel like that's what you're giving so many people permission to do. I feel like all of us, we might read an affirmation or hear something amazing out there, get motivated in church on Sunday or wherever you find

Shun:
Mm-hmm.

Tamara Zantell:
your motivation, but to actually dig in deep and actually get it done and do it. You know, like you demonstrate in this book over and over and over again is, it's just wild. So I feel like people,

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
there's so many of us out there that have excuses. The reason why it won't work, the reason why, you know, like that's for them or that worked out for her to never work for me. But you're giving us permission in a different way to kind of leap past what we, what our circumstances are. and grab exactly what we know that we deserve. So I really,

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
really appreciate that about, you know, reading this book even for the third time.

Shannon:
Ha ha.

Shun:
And I'm so happy because I didn't know where to jump in. You know, this is Shanna's thing. I was gonna let her do her thing. But now that T said that I can kind of segue into saying, she mentioned that we have been friends for 16 years. She mentioned that we're besties. What she did not mention is that she's the famous T in the book that you're all

Shannon:
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Shun:
reading. When we were at the

Tamara Zantell:
Well,

Shun:
college

Tamara Zantell:
you know.

Shun:
parties, when we was going to beat the dudes down, this is T. So this is the T that took

Shannon:
Ha ha

Shun:
me

Shannon:
ha!

Shun:
in. And saved my life right her and her family her father and mother. They just literally became my parents They didn't she didn't ask permission and that's just the way she is in life She didn't say could my friend here. She's like my friend. She's coming here and they're like, okay So I think she took from that she could just do anything she wants in the world So she did

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
i'm gonna bring my friend

Shannon:
Heh

Shun:
home

Shannon:
heh

Shun:
to live

Shannon:
heh.

Shun:
with And they were like, okay

Tamara Zantell:
True.

Shun:
Literally like it's

Tamara Zantell:
Yes.

Shun:
not a freaking story

Shannon:
Oh

Shun:
and

Shannon:
wow!

Tamara Zantell:
It's

Shun:
I lived

Tamara Zantell:
true.

Shun:
with them and then they you know, and Another little thing i'm gonna let you girls get back to the interview because I don't like to talk

Shannon:
Hahaha

Shun:
She and I went our separate ways I moved to georgia to go work for homeland security like and chase bad guys, right? And she

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
went off to be this freaking amazing like uh producer uh brand creator, right? So we lost touch as our grown people often do She

Shannon:
Oh

Shun:
had

Shannon:
yeah.

Shun:
no idea that I was writing a book. I had no idea that she was running a freaking publishing company until I got Re-married in 2020 and she's like what's been going on my car. I'm writing this book is kicking my butt She's like, well, let me know how it works out and she walks away, right? She waits

Tamara Zantell:
What

Shun:
until

Tamara Zantell:
the f-

Shun:
I struggle She waits until I struggle right through two different freaking

Shannon:
I'm sorry.

Shun:
Publishing companies to say like I don't know what to do. They're charged me out this money They're killing me to say

Shannon:
Hehehe

Shun:
I have a publishing company. Would you like me to do it? I'm like But she didn't want me to feel obligated because she's my best

Shannon:
Right,

Shun:
friend to say give

Shannon:
right,

Shun:
me your money Like that's

Shannon:
yeah,

Shun:
just who she is

Shannon:
yeah.

Shun:
and that's why we do what we do because someone would think well she's writing a book and she's you know she's probably just writing over her coat had no idea we hadn't

Shannon:
Yeah.

Shun:
spoke and intensely and years but

Tamara Zantell:
Yeah,

Shun:
that's just

Shannon:
Wow,

Shun:
what God

Tamara Zantell:
that's true.

Shun:
does and that's what grown

Shannon:
exactly.

Shun:
people do 

Tamara Zantell:
the other thing to note here that I wanted to piggyback on what you were saying, Eva, is that not only did we not speak to each other for a while in deep detail, it's like we just picked up where we left off and there was no

Shun:
Absolutely.

Tamara Zantell:
girl where you been and how come you haven't talked

Shannon:
Hehehehehehe

Tamara Zantell:
to me or whatever. We've always been in each other's lives, even if it was just playing in the background. So I think

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
that's what real friendship, after 30 years.

Shun:
I have been through a whole

Shannon:
the

Shun:
marriage, I was back to the first husband. I don't even know if she knew his husband. Because that's just how it was.

Shannon:
Yeah, yeah.

Shun:
But serious

Shannon:
And

Shun:
business though,

Shannon:
I mean,

Shun:
that's

Shannon:
that's

Shun:
what

Shannon:
just

Shun:
grown

Shannon:
how

Shun:
people

Shannon:
real, that

Shun:
do.

Shannon:
yeah, that's exactly that's how real friends operate. You know, once you become adults and you have your own families, you know, people have to understand.

Tamara Zantell:
Absolutely.

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
I agree with that.

Shannon:
All

Shun:
Okay,

Shannon:
right,

Shun:
so I'm

Shannon:
next

Shun:
sorry

Shannon:
question.

Shun:
to say I tracked your girls. Okay.

Shannon:
Next question. So you are really raw in this book. You admit, you know, you're wrong. You admit your hurts. You put so much out there that, you know, would be really, really hard for so many people to do. So how hard was it for you to be that vulnerable?

Shun:
Um now that I am who I am not hard at all because I came to a point in my life about five to ten years ago That god knew everything about me. Who else do I have to hide from? so

Shannon:
True.

Shun:
some of the Hearts were hearts. We live in some of the memories with heart

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
But to put my truth out was not hard at all because i'm past that that's my past. I don't live there anymore so the only way

Shannon:
Okay.

Shun:
the best way I feel to To get people past their pain is to show yours first.

Shannon:
awesome.

Tamara Zantell:
That's good. I love that. I love that. That goes back to what I was talking about with giving permission, opening the door for

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Tamara Zantell:
someone else. I think sometimes bravery happens through other people and we have to see that one woman stepping out gives us permission for us to then step out. And I think

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
Absolutely.

Tamara Zantell:
we see it all the time and I don't think we ever look at ourselves as the one that's going to step out. We don't look at us as,

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
never do we, specifically us as black women, do we think about us being the hero in the story, you know?

Shun:
Absolutely.

Tamara Zantell:
And I think,

Shannon:
Right.

Tamara Zantell:
yeah, and when we think about that, we think about the hero in our story, but what happens if

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Tamara Zantell:
we have the opportunity to be the hero in somebody else's story by just sharing our story? So, I mean,

Shun:
Amazing.

Tamara Zantell:
I think so many people that have read this book and that will read this book, Yvette are gonna be like, she is my hero. Like,

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
I feel like

Shun:
I'm

Tamara Zantell:
I

Shun:
sorry.

Tamara Zantell:
can do so many other things. I can get through this divorce. I can have this baby and not feel shame. I can do this. You know, like I can deal with

Shun:
Yep.

Tamara Zantell:
my family in a different way and still

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
be

Shun:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
who I absolutely want to be and who I know that God has called me to be regardless. And that's huge.

Shun:
Thank you.

Shannon:
That is huge. Yeah, yeah. And when you talk about empowerment too, you know, a lot of people, you don't have certain, I guess, ideals in their mind of who would be that

Tamara Zantell:
Mm-hmm.

Shannon:
ideal role model. And you're exactly that. When they read the book, they will see that. I mean, you can take your story. and apply it to even if someone grew up in, I don't know, a mansion with $1.2 million in

Shun:
Absolutely.

Shannon:
their pocket, they could still find what something from what you went through and experienced and grew from and apply that to their lives. I think it's universal.

Shun:
I think

Tamara Zantell:
I

Shun:
that's

Tamara Zantell:
agree.

Shun:
a wonderful point Shannon because in my channel for interview in this interview I think I started with poverty and I start with lack. I thank you for bringing that I don't want I Gotta be careful now that you mentioned that not to say and now that tomorrow said they can touch any woman It's not just for poverty. We fight

Shannon:
Right.

Shun:
battles in our own mind every day that has nothing to do with money You know It's any situation that you're in like tamara said I can have this baby Just not only black women that are have divorces or have babies out of wedlock, right? It's not only black people that are born into poverty So this is for anybody

Tamara Zantell:
Absolutely.

Shun:
in any situation that you feel like I can't do it You absolutely can't

Shannon:
Yeah.

Shun:
so thank you ladies for bringing that out It's for anyone

Tamara Zantell:
I

Shun:
who's

Tamara Zantell:
love

Shun:
going

Tamara Zantell:
that.

Shun:
through Thank

Tamara Zantell:
That's amazing.

Shun:
you.

Tamara Zantell:
Can I, Shannon, do you mind if I jump in with a question? Because she already

Shannon:
sure

Tamara Zantell:
started

Shannon:
go ahead

Tamara Zantell:
talking. She mentioned it's channel four interview. And I just have this

Shun:
I'm

Tamara Zantell:
question

Shun:
sorry.

Tamara Zantell:
that I have been waiting to ask you. Can I, do I have your permission to step up to the

Shannon:
Oh my gosh,

Tamara Zantell:
mic? Yeah,

Shannon:
yes, yes.

Tamara Zantell:
thank you, thank you. Okay, so Yvette, you, we talked about, okay. First of all, congratulations on the interview. It was

Shun:
Thank

Tamara Zantell:
a

Shannon:
Oh,

Shun:
you.

Tamara Zantell:
amazing

Shannon:
yes!

Tamara Zantell:
interview. I just was

Shun:
Thank

Tamara Zantell:
watching

Shun:
you.

Tamara Zantell:
you and I was like, that's my- It was so good, right?

Shun:
Thank you.

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
It just was really good. So, but you posted on Facebook, right? So if you're not following, you need to follow because the story just even gets more real, right? On

Shun:
Ha

Tamara Zantell:
Facebook,

Shun:
ha ha!

Tamara Zantell:
wherever she is, Google my friend, okay?

Shun:
I'm sorry.

Tamara Zantell:
You posted a picture and you know, you was all swagged out, looking all good up there. And I was

Shannon:
Yeah?

Tamara Zantell:
like, yes, okay. But you

Shannon:
Yeah!

Tamara Zantell:
posted a picture of your feet and you mentioned my lucky shoes. And you know me. I'm all about platform building, branding, messaging, all the things, right?

Shun:
Hehehehehehe

Tamara Zantell:
I need to know more because I was like, there is a story here that she is not telling and I need to know, so let's go. Okay, so why

Shannon:
Hehehehe

Tamara Zantell:
are those your lucky shoes? That photo with your feet, you know what I'm talking about, right?

Shun:
do.

Tamara Zantell:
Okay.

Shun:
My Ralph Lawrence, I'll tell you. Those were the last pair of shoes my father bought me for an interview over 10 years ago. And man,

Tamara Zantell:
Wow.

Shun:
now I hate what you could have asked this last. Now girl, you're gonna bring the tears out. But anyways, and if anyone knows my father, he's very tight, girl. He real filled with money. He real tight, right? So

Shannon:
Hehehe

Shun:
he was, his saying was, my money is for the needy, not the greedy. So he seriously didn't play about his money. But I knew those rules. I knew those rules didn't apply to his

Tamara Zantell:
I

Shun:
baby

Tamara Zantell:
love that.

Shun:
girl, you know? So I convinced him by saying, daddy, like, this is a career changing opportunity. It's an opportunity of a lifetime. Like, I got this outfit, and I need these shoes, right? He looked at him, and he said, who the hell is Ralph? And why his shoes cost $400? Don't nobody named Ron make shoes?

Shannon:
Hehehehehehe

Tamara Zantell:
I love it. Yeah, get them Ron shoes, girl.

Shun:
So you know that $400 10 years ago was a lot of money to my father because I said he was really good.

Tamara Zantell:
Oh, goodness.

Shun:
Now

Tamara Zantell:
It's

Shun:
$400

Tamara Zantell:
a lot of

Shannon:
Oh

Tamara Zantell:
money

Shannon:
My

Shun:
a

Tamara Zantell:
today.

Shannon:
god,

Shun:
day,

Shannon:
yeah,

Shun:
I was about

Shannon:
right

Shun:
to say now $400 a day probably won't get you a good pair of shoes if you're really doing it right. But he said who the hell is Ralph? I said that Ralph Lawrence. He said who the hell is Ralph? And nobody don't run, don't make shoes? Listen, me, the sales associate at the mall, We were dying. The lady had tears in her eyes. She dropped

Shannon:
Hehehehehehe

Shun:
a box and had to sit down before she could finish helping us. But guess what? I got those shoes. So when

Tamara Zantell:
Got

Shun:
I need

Tamara Zantell:
those

Shun:
to

Tamara Zantell:
shoes.

Shun:
be reassured

Shannon:
Oh.

Shun:
or when I need

Shannon:
Heh,

Shun:
to

Shannon:
heh,

Shun:
feel

Shannon:
heh.

Shun:
my daddy close to me, you will see those shoes. Even after I'm a millionaire, you shall see those shoes.

Tamara Zantell:
I love that. Thank

Shannon:
Hehehehehehe

Tamara Zantell:
you. I knew there

Shun:
Thank

Tamara Zantell:
had to

Shun:
you.

Tamara Zantell:
be a story. I was like, my lucky shoes. And then I was like, okay, they're

Shannon:
Ha ha

Tamara Zantell:
cute, but there has to be more here. So yes, we definitely need more of those stories because.

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
You like thank you, but I seen better ones than that now, I know she got no

Shannon:
Hehehe

Tamara Zantell:
Well, you know, your

Shun:
I

Tamara Zantell:
dad

Shun:
know she

Tamara Zantell:
is such

Shun:
got

Tamara Zantell:
a

Shun:
some

Tamara Zantell:
force.

Shun:
better ones

Tamara Zantell:
No, you always show up. You show up. Correct. But

Shun:
I'm just

Tamara Zantell:
I love

Shun:
teasing.

Tamara Zantell:
that.

Shannon:
Right.

Tamara Zantell:
I love that

Shannon:
Bye.

Tamara Zantell:
story. And thank you for sharing that with us. Your father is indeed a force in the book. So knowing that,

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
He

Tamara Zantell:
it

Shun:
is.

Tamara Zantell:
just kind of touches me in a different way. You know, so

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
now we're

Shun:
Yes.

Tamara Zantell:
gonna, yes, we'll talk more about that. I love that. That's so good.

Shun:
Okay,

Tamara Zantell:
So thank you, Shannon.

Shun:
okay.

Tamara Zantell:
I will, I shall fade in the back.

Shannon:
Oh no no, please don't, do

Shun:
I'm

Shannon:
not.

Shun:
sorry.

Shannon:
You do not.

Tamara Zantell:
That's

Shannon:
Yeah,

Tamara Zantell:
so good.

Shannon:
so, yeah, so since you brought up, you know, Sean, you just mentioned your father, one of my questions actually talked about, you know, how much I loved, I loved how much you love your father and your stepfather. And

Shun:
Mm-hmm.

Shannon:
I learned that in the book. How much and then. What ways do you think each one of them impacted you today? And

Shun:
Um,

Shannon:
how

Shun:
my

Shannon:
differently?

Shun:
father, um, differently because my father was a man of, he was stern, again, futile, he was about credit score. He probably had an 800 when he died. He was that man. He taught me responsibility. I don't know how much of it I picked up. I mean, I didn't pick up a lot of it, but he, that's what he represented. He represented business. Get this done. This is the life you should lead. This is how you raise your children. Your children need a father. You guys saw that in the book. He was all about family value structure. My stepfather taught me love. My stepfather taught me, live your life, baby. That man didn't work out, get you another one. I was afraid to call my stepdad and say, dad, I'm pregnant. When I called him and told him I was pregnant, he was elated every single time. But my father was like, you ain't married. What the hell you mean you're pregnant? So they represented, they represented so many different things. And

Tamara Zantell:
Thanks for

Shun:
I

Tamara Zantell:
watching!

Shun:
had the best of both worlds because of it. Cause I think my stepfather was just like me. We got it. We spent in it. Where we going, baby? We that we got to pay

Tamara Zantell:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
the rent. We'll do that next week.

Tamara Zantell:
I'm sorry.

Shun:
They gave me the best of both worlds. My father taught me you should

Shannon:
Yeah.

Shun:
be responsible. You should live this way. My stepfather taught me that tomorrow's not promised to any of us. Live your life, baby. And I needed

Tamara Zantell:
Talk

Shun:
them both.

Tamara Zantell:
about balance, harmony. I love that. That's beautiful.

Shannon:
Yeah,

Shun:
And so

Shannon:
that

Tamara Zantell:
Should

Shun:
I'm

Shannon:
is.

Tamara Zantell:
we

Shun:
happy

Tamara Zantell:
all

Shun:
you

Tamara Zantell:
have

Shun:
said,

Tamara Zantell:
both sides of the coin?

Shun:
shouldn't we have that? And I'm so happy that

Shannon:
Yeah.

Shun:
you

Tamara Zantell:
Yes.

Shun:
said that Shannon, because when I talk about my life and the things I had to overcome, please understand it wasn't all bad. And to get out of the bad, you

Shannon:
Right,

Shun:
gotta hang on to the good

Shannon:
right.

Shun:
pieces that God gives you. Cause he always gives us sprinkles in anything we do. And you gotta learn how to leave your hands open to catch the good sprinkles and not let the bad things fill them

Shannon:
Yeah.

Shun:
up.

Tamara Zantell:
Mm-hmm. Yes, ma'am. Write

Shannon:
Yes,

Tamara Zantell:
that down.

Shannon:
write that down. Okay, now

Shun:
I'm sorry.

Shannon:
I'm gonna touch on something. I don't know if you, you know, don't want me to go here or whatever, you just let me know. We can, we can

Shun:
I can

Shannon:
just

Shun:
decline.

Shannon:
go with the

Shun:
Okay.

Shannon:
flow.

Shun:
I can decline

Shannon:
Yes,

Shun:
the question. Thank you for giving me the option.

Shannon:
yes,

Shun:
Go ahead.

Shannon:
yes. So in the book, my heart melted, of course, when Jimmy said that he wanted to say he was the father of your second daughter. Can you tell me what you were feeling? Because to me, that was the ultimate love. And it was just like, oh, you know, fairy tale to me. I mean,

Shun:
and

Shannon:
what dreams are made of. And it just melted my heart. So.

Shun:
I'm gonna tell you that when

Shannon:
Wedding.

Shun:
I saw Jimmy's eyes at the bus stop, I knew he was a good looking man. And since we go in there guys, you know, it's a family show, but I gotta tell you, when I made love to Jimmy for the first time, I thought I would never want anybody else in this world, but I don't think I fell

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
in love with Jimmy until that day. I think that's the day I fell in love with him. And I think had I been in that kind of love, I wouldn't have had the second daughter. I would have been able to hang on. We were together, we loved each other. But I didn't fall in love. And then people said, well, you had another baby. You heard him again. Falling in love with someone does not exempt you from doing stupid things. And I did plenty of stupid things at the one, but the day he told me that was the day that I knew I would never want to live life without it. And that's how I

Shannon:
That

Shun:
think

Shannon:
is beautiful.

Shun:
I found my way back to from that.

Shannon:
Oh.

Tamara Zantell:
That's so beautiful.

Shannon:
It is when I tell you touching, touching.

Tamara Zantell:
So beautiful. Wow. So since you were already emotional and it's all, you know, getting

Shun:
That's

Tamara Zantell:
all,

Shun:
it.

Tamara Zantell:
you know, real, real up in here,

Shun:
I'm sorry.

Tamara Zantell:
I

Shannon:
Huh.

Tamara Zantell:
want to know what's the one line that resonates with you? So like when you were writing, did you like, was there any line in the book that where you're like, yeah, this is it or, I don't know if I should say that or yes, I'm so glad that, you know, Like share that with me. Is there one line? I mean, you wrote this amazing experience and that's what I'm calling it. But,

Shun:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
you know, is there one line for you? What's the one line for you?

Shun:
Um, the one line for me, I think would come when I was with my second husband. And I think, again, I think you guys read the book. If God would have said, come to heaven and make your husband now, as much as I love Jimmy, Jimmy did not have all those qualities at the time he did not. I never saw the qualities that my, that Chris gave to me, you know, and he was just good to me, but I couldn't love him for that reason. My heart was already taken. And I don't know, you know, people who really understand this, but I think once

Tamara Zantell:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
you really give your heart away, it's just really hard to get it back. And I understand through

Shannon:
And...

Shun:
everything, you know, how people can be torn. And I think that would be the line that I wrote, being one man's wife and having love as fresh as the morning dew on grass for another causes conflict in my heart daily. I mean, as soon as I wrote it, I thought like that's a perfect depiction of what being torn feels like. Like morning dew signals freshness, right? A new day. But who

Shannon:
Right.

Shun:
likes walking in wet grass in their good shoes? It's a dilemma.

Shannon:
Yeah,

Shun:
So

Tamara Zantell:
Right.

Shun:
I think

Tamara Zantell:
I did

Shannon:
yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
it.

Shun:
that was the deepest lie that I wrote.

Shannon:
That's

Shun:
And that's

Shannon:
a

Shun:
why.

Shannon:
T. Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
That's good. I love that. And I

Shannon:
Very good.

Tamara Zantell:
get it. And I felt that. I

Shannon:
Yeah,

Tamara Zantell:
felt

Shun:
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Tamara Zantell:
that.

Shannon:
yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
Wow. And I agree with once you give your heart away, it is like you really, it's a whole situation to get it back if you even really

Shun:
Is that

Tamara Zantell:
want

Shun:
why you

Tamara Zantell:
to

Shun:
back

Tamara Zantell:
get it

Shun:
with

Tamara Zantell:
back.

Shun:
your husband again, too? So I'm a I'm a tell them

Tamara Zantell:
Oh,

Shun:
a tease business.

Tamara Zantell:
girl.

Shun:
She

Tamara Zantell:
This

Shun:
has

Tamara Zantell:
ain't my

Shun:
a jimmy

Tamara Zantell:
interview.

Shun:
She

Tamara Zantell:
Listen.

Shun:
has a jimmy that she's back with

Tamara Zantell:
She

Shun:
for the

Tamara Zantell:
went

Shun:
second time

Tamara Zantell:
there.

Shun:
guys like life and karma is just following us around as friends, right?

Tamara Zantell:
For real,

Shun:
So yeah

Tamara Zantell:
for real,

Shannon:
Oh wow!

Tamara Zantell:
in the dark and in the light. So yes, I

Shannon:
Oh my

Tamara Zantell:
am,

Shannon:
gosh!

Tamara Zantell:
I am.

Shun:
And Shannon, his name is Jimmy Shannon.

Tamara Zantell:
His name is Jimmy.

Shun:
Mm-hmm.

Tamara Zantell:
So yes, I have a Jimmy too, and I am now

Shun:
It's

Tamara Zantell:
engaged

Shun:
good.

Tamara Zantell:
to my ex-husband. So I get it. I get it. Oh

Shannon:
All

Tamara Zantell:
my God.

Shannon:
right.

Shun:
I'm

Tamara Zantell:
Yeah.

Shannon:
Yep,

Shun:
going

Shannon:
yep,

Shun:
to go.

Tamara Zantell:
Actual

Shannon:
yep.

Tamara Zantell:
divorce and now we're engaged again. How freaking dare

Shannon:
Oh

Tamara Zantell:
I?

Shannon:
wow,

Shun:
Hehehe

Shannon:
wow.

Tamara Zantell:
Shannon's

Shannon:
Well,

Tamara Zantell:
like, I don't even know what to say.

Shannon:
I know, I mean, that just shows me. I mean, that's love, I guess, that you

Shun:
Yeah.

Shannon:
guys found long ago. And we've talked on the podcast before, it took me a long time. When I met my husband, it was just different. I knew, because I'm like, okay, all these years, I never could

Shun:
Mm-hmm.

Shannon:
click

Shun:
This

Shannon:
with

Shun:
is what

Shannon:
anyone

Shun:
I wanted

Shannon:
or.

Shun:
to

Shannon:
feels

Shun:
feel

Shannon:
anything.

Shun:
and this

Shannon:
Yes,

Shun:
is what I'm feeling. Okay

Shannon:
exactly. Exactly. So for you two to have had it and now to be back with it and all of that, I think it's beautiful. I really do. I think it's a wonderful

Tamara Zantell:
Thank

Shannon:
thing.

Tamara Zantell:
you.

Shun:
Thank you.

Shannon:
So

Tamara Zantell:
Thank you. Thank

Shannon:
there

Tamara Zantell:
you. I appreciate

Shannon:
is

Tamara Zantell:
that.

Shannon:
there's

Tamara Zantell:
And thank

Shannon:
hope

Tamara Zantell:
you,

Shannon:
for everyone.

Tamara Zantell:
Yvette, for bringing

Shun:
Yes,

Tamara Zantell:
it all

Shun:
it is.

Tamara Zantell:
out.

Shannon:
All right. Okay, I'm gonna ask you another question. It's a little bit more personal meaning because of my relationship with the family. But also folks that read the book will, will see a little bit too. But you talked about your relationship with Daddy Gaines. who is your husband's father, your father-in-law who transitioned in 2009.

Shun:
Yes.

Shannon:
And I know he was so proud of you. He was so, so proud of you. What is something you would like people to know about him that was special just between you and him?

Shun:
that he told me and I don't know if I did or didn't put this in the book. He basically reassured me maybe a couple of years before he died. He told me in so many words, not years, I'm so sorry guys, months. He called me and he said, Jamila for some reason, didn't go to New York this summer before I don't know. I was working, it was something crazy. And, um, he said, where's my girl? I said, daddy, you know, she could make it. I said, I'm working this job. It keeps me busy. I said, I'm gonna try my best to get her there next year. He said, I don't know if next year is good enough for me. I wanna see my baby right now. I said, daddy, I know, but I'm working. And he said, I understand, life gets the best of you. He said, but listen, if next year never come, you know, and he made this, that little laugh, ha ha, I loved his laugh. He said, if next

Shannon:
Yeah.

Shun:
year never comes, and he did his laugh, he said, just know this, you're doing a wonderful job and my son shall finish what he started. He said, just wait. and he

Tamara Zantell:
Mmm.

Shun:
died two months later.

Tamara Zantell:
Just

Shun:
And he

Tamara Zantell:
wait.

Shun:
died two months later. But he didn't part without telling me that I told you what I said and I know my son, my son is me. He said, give him time. Because without getting too intimate because he has transitioned, and I don't have my husband's permission to go too far into detail, but his father

Shannon:
Yeah,

Shun:
wasn't

Shannon:
yeah.

Shun:
always a deacon. He wasn't always a saint. but he knew so much of his son was in him. He was so reassured. And I'm sure the Lord had a lot to do with it as well, is in reassuring him that,

Shannon:
Oh yeah.

Shun:
your son's gonna do the right thing. I was just honored with as many as women as he probably has seen his son with, that he thought I was worthy, that he ran the race for me, that he rooted for me until the day he died.

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
That's awesome.

Shun:
And I think part of that is because he knew I was good for his son. And I think part of it is because even though I was crazy as I'll get out back then, he saw in me what it would take to change his son into the man or to pray for his son, only God can change people. For me to pray for his son, to have the endurance and the diligence to wait for his son, to show him God

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
so he could understand what God looked like and what the love of God looks like. He had that much confidence in me.

Shannon:
Yeah, and he was absolutely right. Absolutely

Shun:
And wasn't he right?

Tamara Zantell:
Mm-hmm.

Shannon:
right.

Tamara Zantell:
What an amazing gift for us to have someone that believes in us and what

Shun:
Absolutely.

Tamara Zantell:
we're capable of so much.

Shannon:
Mm, yeah.

Shun:
Absolutely.

Shannon:
All right, so those are all my questions. So we had it,

Tamara Zantell:
Ahem.

Shannon:
and I will turn it to T. I don't

Shun:
She's

Shannon:
know

Shun:
like,

Shannon:
if we wanna

Shun:
I

Shannon:
go

Shun:
got

Shannon:
to

Shun:
another

Shannon:
our,

Shun:
one.

Shannon:
oh

Tamara Zantell:
Yeah.

Shannon:
yeah, so we got one email, but let's go to T first though.

Tamara Zantell:
So

Shannon:
Go ahead T, take

Tamara Zantell:
listen,

Shannon:
it away.

Tamara Zantell:
okay, I will keep it brief because I know

Shannon:
No, no,

Tamara Zantell:
like

Shannon:
take your time, take

Tamara Zantell:
this

Shannon:
your time.

Tamara Zantell:
has been such a great conversation and we have both had the opportunity Shannon to really ask all of our burning questions and really get down to the nitty gritty so that those, anyone that has already read the book is like, yes, thank you for asking that. And then anyone that is like just learning about this experience, what I'm calling it, you're already feeling like you should have had it already. Right? So go get it.

Shannon:
Right.

Tamara Zantell:
So my question

Shun:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
for the author, right, is I want to know what is, because we're talking about the reading of the book, what is the most unique thing in your book that you would say that most people wouldn't notice from reading it once? What is the most unique thing?

Shun:
If you didn't notice from reading it once and you can't answer you should probably know because you read it like three times Because you publish it But if you

Tamara Zantell:
Mm-hmm. Or more.

Shun:
if you just and maybe

Shannon:
Hehehehe.

Shun:
and maybe you did it, so let's see if you knew that each of my Chapters name is embedded in the chapter of the book for example, I Think chapter 4 is called college bound. You'll find that in chapter 4 And I believe chapter 20 is called Wounds in the Way. When I was going through the dilemma between my ex-husband and Jimmy. And Wounds in the Way is embedded in one of the lines. So every single chapter,

Shannon:
Okay.

Shun:
now somebody gonna be doing research. Somebody gonna do some homework right now. Somebody gonna go grab their book and start highlighting stuff.

Tamara Zantell:
Well, that's listen Me

Shun:
Ha ha!

Tamara Zantell:
I have my novel, okay,

Shannon:
Right.

Tamara Zantell:
I need to highlight it now

Shun:
So

Tamara Zantell:
It's like

Shun:
in

Tamara Zantell:
what

Shun:
every

Tamara Zantell:
else things

Shun:
single

Tamara Zantell:
we like

Shun:
chapter.

Tamara Zantell:
you couldn't you can't ever unsee it now

Shun:
Now

Shannon:
Yeah,

Shun:
you got to look

Shannon:
yeah.

Shun:
for it, right? So that's I think the most unique thing because you know I wanted that to be unique because I knew my story wasn't unique to just me, you know My story isn't

Tamara Zantell:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
unique to me But I wanted to give it to the world and like Tamara said to empower other people and you probably will find many of these stories Now that they're like, okay, I can do this. So that story I told isn't unique to me. It's just my story So to make my book unique that was something and I thought like what can make this thing catchy? So that's what I did. I put

Tamara Zantell:
Okay.

Shun:
a chapter name in every chapter of the book. Every chapter name is embedded in the chapter and a paragraph

Tamara Zantell:
In the

Shun:
or

Tamara Zantell:
chapter.

Shun:
line.

Tamara Zantell:
I love that. Yes.

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
So everyone, please go look for that. Make sure you highlight it. I just got these fancy pastel highlighters. So I'll be highlighting my book this week. Yes, yes,

Shun:
I'm

Tamara Zantell:
yes.

Shun:
sorry.

Tamara Zantell:
So along that vein, in that same vein rather,

Shannon:
Ha ha.

Tamara Zantell:
Eva, I wanna know, since you talked about each chapter, you know, thinking about, thinking outside the box to make the book unique and how do you stand out and how do you, as if, first of all, I have to say this, Shannon. as if the book itself was not unique, as if the book itself does

Shannon:
Oh

Tamara Zantell:
not

Shannon:
yeah, yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
position her or stand her, or like, you know, like set her apart or aside, which is

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
what we all wish that we could be. I feel

Shannon:
Right.

Tamara Zantell:
like it was unique alone. However, I am interested in knowing from you, what was the hardest thing about writing this book?

Shun:
My hardest thing was reliving the memories and the pain. Some days I would stop and cry and I couldn't resume for days, months, a few times years I couldn't pick it back up. That's part of the reason it took me 10 years to complete, you know, and a lot of it was for that reason. But I also factor in that I had to live through a little more pain before I could be pushed to the promise of that book delivered. So it was a

Tamara Zantell:
Mmm.

Shun:
mixture of the two. I mean, it hurt and I didn't want to relive it. But I knew, like I said, in order to, you know, have people release their pain, I had to show mine first. And my reward is watching God's hands of faithfulness. Even in this moment, with two of my best girls, my biggest supporters, my friends

Tamara Zantell:
It's important.

Shun:
on

Tamara Zantell:
My

Shun:
this

Tamara Zantell:
friends,

Shun:
interview today

Tamara Zantell:
I

Shun:
is

Tamara Zantell:
just

Shun:
a testament

Tamara Zantell:
want to get some testing

Shun:
that none of what I went

Tamara Zantell:
that

Shun:
through

Tamara Zantell:
not

Shun:
was

Tamara Zantell:
everyone

Shun:
in vain. You know, he's released

Tamara Zantell:
has been.

Shun:
me

Tamara Zantell:
He's what makes

Shun:
into

Tamara Zantell:
me.

Shun:
the world

Tamara Zantell:
It's

Shun:
now to change

Tamara Zantell:
important

Shun:
lives

Tamara Zantell:
to change lives.

Shun:
because

Tamara Zantell:
The

Shun:
I took on the task of saving my own and I've proven to him that

Tamara Zantell:
Mmm.

Shun:
I'm equipped

Shannon:
Yeah,

Shun:
to answer the call.

Shannon:
yeah,

Tamara Zantell:
I

Shannon:
amen.

Tamara Zantell:
took on the task of saving my own. Okay, write that down.

Shannon:
Yes.

Tamara Zantell:
Y'all need to put an audio

Shannon:
Wow.

Tamara Zantell:
clip of me in here, in every

Shannon:
Huh?

Tamara Zantell:
podcast episode saying, write that down.

Shun:
Write that

Shannon:
Write

Shun:
down

Shannon:
that down.

Tamara Zantell:
That was good. And then the other

Shannon:
Yes,

Tamara Zantell:
thing I picked

Shannon:
it was.

Tamara Zantell:
up from what you put down is also 10 years. Most of us can't stay committed enough to anything for 10 minutes.

Shannon:
No.

Tamara Zantell:
Right. And then to admit the process of, you know, it's sometimes I put it down for a year for years, you said. It

Shun:
Mm-hmm.

Tamara Zantell:
could be a week, a month, days, years, and still never lose sight of what you

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
really wanted to accomplish and what the dream was. It's really commendable. That is huge.

Shannon:
Right. It is. It

Tamara Zantell:
You know,

Shannon:
is.

Tamara Zantell:
that is

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
huge.

Shun:
And I'll

Shannon:
So

Shun:
speak

Shannon:
many people.

Shun:
on the

Shannon:
Yes.

Shun:
go ahead, Shannon. I'm sorry, go ahead, Shannon.

Shannon:
Yeah. I was going to say, yes, so many people wouldn't, you know, go back, you know,

Shun:
I'm sorry.

Shannon:
their,

Tamara Zantell:
What?

Shannon:
their lives would take them so many other places. It's hard to go back to, oh yeah, what was I doing a year ago or two years ago? So this was your calling for sure.

Tamara Zantell:
for

Shannon:
That

Tamara Zantell:
sure.

Shannon:
is clear that God has put this on your life. And this is a message that had to be shared. It wasn't something that you were gonna be able to walk away from. So

Shun:
Thank you, but let

Tamara Zantell:
Absolutely.

Shun:
me

Shannon:
I'm

Shun:
let me

Shannon:
so

Shun:
add

Shannon:
grateful.

Shun:
a little bit. Thank you I'm grateful that you guys took the time and that you felt the need and I'm gonna put on something with the ten years I put it up picked it down put it up. My father died my father passed away in November of 21 and I had been I was at my woods in but he would always ask me guys. How's your book coming? How's your book coming? I'm like that. I don't know about that He said, I think you should finish the book. How's it coming along? He said, you know, you guys just do it. He died in November 21 and I was in the basement of my house and everyone was asleep and I just did not know what to do. And I said, what am I gonna do with that? My dad, God, I'm like, this is so unfair. Like you took my mom, I wasn't okay with it, but I always told everyone, if something happens to my father, I'm gonna lose my marbles. And I said, here I am, God, losing my marbles. My kids were asleep, my husband was asleep. something in my spirit said. I said what am I gonna do now God like who what and something my spirit said finish your book. I said I don't feel like writing no book. First of all let me look around and see who in this basement with me because I know everybody was sleep when I came down here.

Tamara Zantell:
Say what?

Shun:
So

Shannon:
Bye!

Shun:
and I said you know my father was my help he always saved me. Shannon we always talk about bailed me out of jail like I said I can't get crazy now but anybody

Shannon:
Yeah,

Shun:
come get me.

Shannon:
yeah,

Shun:
But

Shannon:
yeah.

Shun:
so I'm like what am I gonna do? And I went and I laid down. I said, okay, I'm tripping now because I'm hearing stuff. It's time to lay down. I laid down and my door was cracked just a little. The door opened a little more and something said, what you need to continue is in your hands. Finish your book. I said, okay, God, okay, I got it. I said, please go away, daddy. Please go

Shannon:
Yeah,

Tamara Zantell:
Mmm.

Shun:
away. I said, I'm so scared. I was literally

Shannon:
yeah,

Shun:
talking to this doorway.

Shannon:
yeah.

Shun:
I got up the next morning. I started writing that book. I was done by January 22.

Tamara Zantell:
Wow.

Shannon:
Okay.

Tamara Zantell:
Let's go.

Shun:
So the pain of losing my father is what pushed me into my purpose. And here I am.

Tamara Zantell:
So good.

Shannon:
Here we are, so good. All

Tamara Zantell:
I love

Shannon:
right,

Tamara Zantell:
it. All right. No,

Shannon:
love

Tamara Zantell:
let's let me just

Shannon:
it.

Tamara Zantell:
regroup for a minute. Wow. And they say everything happens for a reason. Right? We can't

Shun:
I didn't

Tamara Zantell:
see

Shun:
understand

Tamara Zantell:
the blessing

Shun:
that reason

Tamara Zantell:
in

Shun:
when I got that call.

Tamara Zantell:
the

Shun:
I'm like,

Tamara Zantell:
struggle

Shun:
it's nothing you

Tamara Zantell:
and the

Shun:
can

Tamara Zantell:
turmoil

Shun:
do, God.

Tamara Zantell:
and the grief.

Shun:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
Yeah, we

Shun:
I was like, God,

Tamara Zantell:
yeah.

Shun:
it's nothing you can do to make this right. Like, I'll never be the same again. And he was like, girl, shut up, girl. The best is

Shannon:
I know,

Shun:
yet to come.

Shannon:
I know, I

Shun:
I

Shannon:
know,

Shun:
got you.

Shannon:
I

Tamara Zantell:
I got you.

Shannon:
know.

Tamara Zantell:
Isn't that, it's wild how in the midst of the storm or as we sit in our valley, we can't even imagine what God has in

Shannon:
No,

Tamara Zantell:
store for us.

Shannon:
we

Tamara Zantell:
We can't

Shannon:
cannot.

Tamara Zantell:
even think that big. You know, and so, and even now

Shun:
And

Tamara Zantell:
with

Shun:
and

Tamara Zantell:
you have

Shun:
something

Tamara Zantell:
published, go ahead.

Shun:
Yeah, no, I'm saying sometimes it's so big sometimes it's so big if we knew we probably wouldn't even do it

Tamara Zantell:
Exactly.

Shun:
So

Shannon:
Yeah,

Shun:
that's why

Tamara Zantell:
Yeah.

Shannon:
yeah.

Shun:
it's safe for him safer for him to keep it to itself

Tamara Zantell:
Yeah, yeah, so amazing. Well, that

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
was my last question. I mean, for this setting, I have so many other questions, of course. And I know that we have to get to our community question or the email

Shannon:
Yeah,

Tamara Zantell:
or

Shannon:
red

Tamara Zantell:
tell

Shannon:
line.

Tamara Zantell:
me, y'all fill

Shannon:
Yes.

Tamara Zantell:
me in how we do this. Fill me in, I wanna be a part of it.

Shannon:
All

Shun:
Alrighty,

Shannon:
right.

Shun:
well, can

Shannon:
So.

Shun:
we have one more question from the email Shannon that I would like I Don't know if

Shannon:
Okay.

Shun:
you guys read it. Maybe you were asking so fast. Maybe I forgot

Shannon:
So you want, we have a question, Tasha from Buffalo.

Shun:
Yes, I think that was it.

Tamara Zantell:
Hey,

Shannon:
um

Tamara Zantell:
Tasha from Buffalo. What she say?

Shannon:
Tasha

Shun:
Hey, Tasha.

Tamara Zantell:
What she got?

Shannon:
she asked tasha asked what happened to miss mckenna and do you still talk to her?

Tamara Zantell:
Ah, good question, Tasha.

Shun:
Now, Miss McKinnon was both Tamara's and I's teacher all through high school in the book, you know, my mentor. She, after Tamara's parents pushed me out to college because they were like, enough of this strange girl you bought in the house. No, I'm just kidding. Miss McKinnon

Shannon:
Ha

Shun:
kind

Shannon:
ha ha!

Shun:
of picked

Tamara Zantell:
No, we

Shun:
up

Tamara Zantell:
actually

Shun:
and

Tamara Zantell:
had to go to college.

Shun:
we had to go to college together. So keep an eye

Shannon:
Ha

Shun:
on

Shannon:
ha.

Shun:
her, but we're done. But anyways, she and I kept in contact for a few years. And when I moved to Alabama in 06, I had not heard a word or phone call. Anything I moved back here in 16. I searched for her I looked on Facebook nothing and I kind of got disheartened and I was kind of nervous like, you know, Lord I hope she's not gone, you know, I always wanted to tell her from a grown woman that little girl wanted to tell her Thank you You know the grown woman wants to tell her thank you for the way she cared for that little girl and I couldn't find Her and I talked to her Someone from the DA's office Brought this book. She read it and she came to me a week later and said, Yvette, do you remember me? I said, no, I don't. She said, my name is Bridget. She said, my sisters were twins and they graduated with you. They talk about that famous fight all the time. And...

Shannon:
Ha ha.

Tamara Zantell:
Oh my goodness.

Shun:
I just want, I was a freshman when you was a senior and you probably don't remember. I said, Bridget, I'm sorry, but I know your sister's very well. I said, you know what? By any chance, do any of you know where Ms. McKinnon is? She was like, yeah, my sister is best friends with her aunt, they babysit her kids. I'll get in contact. And the next day we contacted each other and we're set

Shannon:
Ah,

Shun:
for dinner in a week.

Shannon:
oh

Tamara Zantell:
Wow!

Shannon:
that's awesome, awesome.

Shun:
If you do the work, God will do the rest. I mean, just like that, a week after reading my book,

Shannon:
Yeah.

Shun:
she came and she said, my sister is friends with her sister. They're very good friends in Tennessee, mind you. Ms. McKenna's sister is in Tennessee

Shannon:
Ha ha

Shun:
with

Shannon:
ha!

Shun:
her sister, and it came back to Buffalo of how to contact her. And Ms. McKenna is right here in Buffalo, the

Tamara Zantell:
Wow,

Shun:
whole time.

Shannon:
Wow.

Tamara Zantell:
I love that.

Shannon:
Yes,

Tamara Zantell:
That is so

Shannon:
awesome.

Tamara Zantell:
good. So good.

Shun:
Yeah, so Tasha

Shannon:
Awesome,

Shun:
there it is.

Shannon:
awesome.

Shun:
We shall see each other before the end of this. If not next week, the end of this month, we have dedicated to that.

Tamara Zantell:
Beautiful, beautiful.

Shannon:
Oh,

Tamara Zantell:
I can't

Shannon:
yes.

Shun:
Thank

Tamara Zantell:
wait to

Shun:
you.

Tamara Zantell:
hear the followup on that. I wanna know. I want all the details.

Shannon:
Yes.

Shun:
Okay, gotcha.

Shannon:
All

Tamara Zantell:
So good.

Shannon:
right. So we will move on. But thank you, Sean, for answering all these questions. It's difficult

Shun:
No.

Shannon:
as some of them may have been for you.

Shun:
Thank you.

Shannon:
We appreciate it. And I'm sure those who have read the book appreciate it. Those who have not read the book, after you read the book, you can go back and listen to these questions. And

Shun:
Have

Shannon:
you know,

Shun:
a better understanding

Shannon:
might clarify some things for you. Yeah,

Shun:
yeah

Shannon:
yeah. So we appreciate tomorrow for joining us tonight. It's so great to have a special guest. And this has been an extra long segment tonight, but we knew it would be special and we appreciate all of you for hanging in there with us. But you know, we have to get to our red lines because it is our third Thursday of the bump and we will have our $100 gift card winner. So let's

Shun:
Yes.

Shannon:
get into it and I will go into the red lines.

Shun:
All right, so the hostess with the most is back. They don't let me take

Shannon:
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Shun:
over for this segment. Thank you girls Thank you ladies. I won't carry on too long because we've ran over our time. So tonight's red line Topic is courtesy of our august wbm winner of the month kandace w And she writes quote. Hi, i'm baby mama and my ex's wife should not put her hands on my child for any reason My ex and I don't spank whoop or none of that. My ex's ghetto wife has threatened to spank my five-year-old What are your thoughts? End quotes. I had to end quote now because anytime i'm calling my wife ghetto. That was Candace w She got beef. So Candace red line is my segment But I think I should have just left this one on with my co-host who's

Shannon:
Hehehe

Shun:
soft spoken and gentle Because I believe in getting down with the get

Shannon:
Oh

Shun:
down.

Shannon:
no

Shun:
Okay?

Shannon:
I-

Shun:
My five-year-old get his little behind tapped because I rather discipline and teach him with the iron fist of love like I did my other children Rather than let the world go, you know, gung-ho law enforcement harm him with their ways However answering from your point of view I'm gonna have to say if you or the child's father don't operate like that Then wifey is totally out of line but the person that needs to be handling that first is the father and Just to give you a little personal background comment you know my third daughter by my ex-husband she's just the absolute angel I know that the kids gonna be hating but she's so sweet y'all but she was about six

Shannon:
Aww.

Shun:
or seven when me and my husband now got back together and her father wasn't happy about me getting back with him because he felt he was a big part of the reason why our marriage didn't work so he was a little angry maybe rightfully so he says I better not ever find out he touched my daughter and after I gave him a few choice words you know I left him with this no one will do anything to my child that I don't condone right But if she needs a spanking and he's feeding her clothing her picking her up, dropping her off from school practice, you know, whatever. And she does something crazy while I'm not home. She can spank it. And that's period. I said it will full respect for both of them though, because he takes good care of my daughter, don't get me wrong, but our stepfather does equally. So whatever method we use in our house, I'm not going to let someone just, you know, harm my children. So getting married didn't alter me from being a mom. We talked about disciplinary ways. My husband and I agree on how we discipline our kids, you know, whether one of us is home or not. Now jumping back to your case, I'll tell you, I know several people who do not believe in physical discipline and they stand firm on it. And again, this needs to be a conversation with the father first. You need to find out

Shannon:
Right.

Shun:
point blank what you and your wife got going on over there, you know. But is he, he may not spank or believe in, but is he okay with it? Has he given his wife permission to spank the child? You know, and if so, and you're not with it. You guys need to work in a civil manner work out how your co-parenting needs what it needs

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
to look like, you know Without being stressed or bothered, you know And another angle is she only straight threatening to spank the child when dad's not around in that case It may be time to stop believing the child along with the wife But

Shannon:
Oh yeah.

Shun:
again only you guys have all the specifics, you know I'm giving my outside

Shannon:
Right.

Shun:
looking in common on this show. We just give our comments from the outside. So

Shannon:
Yeah.

Shun:
Don't go tell them baby mama, you know, wife

Shannon:
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Shun:
and baby mama said that she can't come over there no more. Nope, don't do that. We just give her our honest opinions. Now the last one Candace may not sit well with you, but if we're going to help, we try to keep it real on the show. It all depends on the attitude and behavior of your baby. Because honey, like I said, I have a five year old, sometimes words want to, but on

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
the other hand, I have several friends and associates that firmly believe in those kids. And that method works

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Shun:
successfully for some. But for the most part,

Shannon:
Yeah.

Shun:
y'all, I be like, if you don't whoop that child soon, they're gonna be whooping you. So, I mean, straight up, not for laughs, but for real. Some of these kids grow

Shannon:
Right,

Shun:
up

Shannon:
right.

Shun:
not knowing what real discipline is, and they learn it the hard way. So I'm not saying abuse them, punch them, twist their arms, none of that. But this topic has a few moving parts. So find out the root first, and I'm gonna just leave tonight's Red Line at this. spare the rods, bore the child. And just the remembrance of my grandma tying them switches together, getting these legs, got me together sometimes. So I'm not saying that was a good or a bad thing. And I also recognize we live in a different time than when we grew up. So as with anything, assess it, come to the best solution for all involved. But I will firmly say, if you and dad are adamant and in agreement with practice and no spanking, it's probably wise for wifey to keep our hands to herself and take a seat. And that's the Redmond topic for the night. Congratulations, Candice.

Shannon:
All right, congratulations.

Shun:
What do you got, Shannon? What do you feel about that?

Shannon:
Well, you're right. I'm the soft spoken one.

Shun:
I'm sorry.

Shannon:
So yeah, with my son, it was, you know, I, I don't know. I started out like normal, you know, with a little pop here and there. And then I may have spanked him. I don't know. I could count. And then I was like, I don't like it.

Shun:
hehe

Shannon:
And so I stopped. And so from then on out, he got punishment. Meaning, um, you know grounded and I took his equipment or things like that or made him take it out Take your video game take your TV take this out to your room all of that and he hated it and it worked best for me

Shun:
So that's

Shannon:
Because

Shun:
what I said.

Shannon:
this is how

Shun:
Find

Shannon:
I did.

Shun:
your own method.

Shannon:
Yeah, this is how I knew it worked Yeah, this how I knew it worked too because I remember one time I was he was probably about 10 or so and I was about to put him on punishment again, and he says I just wish you would spank me like my dad. Because you know,

Shun:
I'm

Shannon:
Jimmy,

Shun:
like, he believe in it, baby. He believe in it, baby.

Shannon:
what them

Shun:
He believe in it.

Shannon:
and I'm like, oh, so you want it to be over

Shun:
Wicking

Shannon:
with?

Shun:
over

Shannon:
No,

Shun:
with,

Shannon:
this gonna

Shun:
yes.

Shannon:
last two weeks. Yeah, it's gonna

Shun:
Yes.

Shannon:
last two weeks. So yeah, so.

Shun:
So each his own. T, what's your method, girl? I mean, I know her kids are good and grown. She got a grandbaby. She got a lot of grandbabies. So she like, that part of my ship has sailed, baby. I'm done.

Tamara Zantell:
Listen,

Shannon:
hahahaha

Tamara Zantell:
I ain't spank nobody and I can't remember when. Because my baby is 22, so yes.

Shun:
Okay,

Shannon:
Ha ha

Tamara Zantell:
I

Shannon:
ha.

Tamara Zantell:
have grandchildren

Shun:
so you say you got

Tamara Zantell:
now and I will

Shun:
you

Tamara Zantell:
not

Shun:
got nothing

Tamara Zantell:
be spanking them. I got nothing.

Shun:
Well, that's not

Tamara Zantell:
But

Shun:
our duty

Tamara Zantell:
I've, I

Shun:
that's not our

Tamara Zantell:
love,

Shun:
duty

Tamara Zantell:
well, you

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
know, I've always been a communicator. So, you know,

Shannon:
Uh huh.

Tamara Zantell:
I have, so I come from a different perspective because I have a child, I have several children actually that have sensory issues and one son has a little bit more special needs. So, loud noises and anger and fast movements would stress him. So I discovered with that child that any type of like threat or thought of like spanking or any type of aggression, it just

Shun:
sent

Tamara Zantell:
tore

Shun:
into

Tamara Zantell:
him

Shun:
a different

Tamara Zantell:
down.

Shun:
realm. Aw.

Tamara Zantell:
Yeah,

Shannon:
Ah.

Tamara Zantell:
so that changed my perspective on how I would discipline. And we turned into, you know, communication and, you know, similar to what has already been said, you know. redirecting them and taking things away, other things that they were really passionate about and they really loved,

Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Tamara Zantell:
they decided it was worth doing what mommy said so I can have those special moments of those

Shannon:
Yes.

Tamara Zantell:
things back. You know,

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
and I had to do that specifically with my son, Josiah, because again, any type of threat or heart, like he would be traumatized for days and even weeks.

Shun:
Uh huh.

Tamara Zantell:
So I had to be very, very careful about what he was, what was done around him or what he experienced. So that kind

Shun:
Mm-hmm.

Tamara Zantell:
of just put, you know, I learned so much from him. He taught me how to parent in a different way without

Shun:
Absolutely.

Tamara Zantell:
an eagle or a chip on my shoulder. And it has to be my way, my way, the highway. I grew up in the area or the frame of the space, like many of us, where kids are meant to be seen and not heard. And

Shun:
Mm-hmm.

Tamara Zantell:
I decided that I wanted that to break that cycle with my children.

Shannon:
Yeah,

Tamara Zantell:
And I wanted

Shannon:
yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
to make sure that not only were they seen, but they were also heard and they were honored and they were respected. And I was really, really careful not to do anything that was gonna damage them long-term or break their spirits. So

Shun:
Awesome.

Tamara Zantell:
that's my take on it.

Shannon:
Yeah, that's beautiful.

Shun:
Awesome.

Shannon:
Love it.

Shun:
Okay.

Shannon:
All right. So if you would like to win a $100 gift card like our listener and subscriber Candace W. just did tonight, submit your red line to wifeyandbabymama.gmail.com. And the third Thursday of each month, we will choose a winner and read their red line on the show that night. And if your submission is the one we choose to read, you will receive a $100 gift card courtesy of Wifey and Baby Mama. So please send your red lines in. We love reading them.

Shun:
Absolutely.

Shannon:
And that is our show for tonight. Thank you all for hanging in there with us as we went a little long tonight, but I know it's worth it every second. So we thank Tamara once again, and

Shun:
Thank

Shannon:
we look

Shun:
you.

Shannon:
forward to you

Tamara Zantell:
Thank

Shannon:
all.

Tamara Zantell:
you so much for having me.

Shannon:
Yeah.

Tamara Zantell:
I had so much

Shun:
And

Tamara Zantell:
fun. I appreciate it.

Shun:
I thank you both ladies from the bottom of my heart for taking the time. I know firsthand what both of your lives look like daily and the fact that you took the time is an honor. Much love to you guys and much

Shannon:
Yeah,

Shun:
love to

Tamara Zantell:
Thank

Shun:
you audience.

Tamara Zantell:
you.

Shannon:
much love.

Shun:
Thank you for hanging in there with

Shannon:
Yes.

Shun:
us.

Shannon:
Until next week.

Shun:
Until next week, love you.