Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Hello
Anke: and welcome, Jeff.
I'm super excited to have you here today.
Jeff: Thank you,
Anke: Anke.
Well, let's get started.
Before we dig into a topic that's really actually really dear to my
heart, um, let people know where you're based, what's your business?
Jeff: Okay.
Well, I'm, uh, I'm Jeff Grognett, veterinarian, and I'm in a place
called British Columbia, Canada.
So, it's around the world from where you are, I guess.
And the, um, uh, that, what that means is I'm on the west coast
of Canada, on Vancouver Island, in a place called Parksville.
So, that's, that's where I am right now, looking at the
water out of my office window.
Okay, uh, but the, uh, the, uh, the way to, uh, find me if you're, uh,
looking for me is online, because that's where, what I do now is
primarily online education teaching.
Okay, so, so that's where I'm
Anke: hiding.
Oh, that's such a lovely place, and it's still on my bucket list.
So, well, I can basically give away how I found you.
Because I saw VET and the word holistic before that, so Okay.
Like, share a little bit, like how, obviously you became a veterinarian
because you wanted to work with animals, like what made you shift across to a
more holistic approach, or is that what you got trained in, I would suspect?
No.
Jeff: No, no, I was trained like any other veterinarian.
And that is, I was put into the conventional camp, so when I
graduated, uh, that was 40 years ago, so it's before, before you were born
probably, uh, but anyway, back then, uh, there was, uh, they hadn't even
invented the world, uh, the word.
alternative or holistic or anything like that.
Okay, there's still, it just wasn't there.
And so when I graduated the, this is the key, I was told to
vaccinate dogs and cats every year.
I was told to feed them a really well balanced food like green dog chow.
And then, uh, and then also as I call it parasite control, just
pick the toxin you want to put on because if it works, it's fine.
Okay.
So, so that's where I started.
And then over the years, uh, I'm, I'm with someone who looks at things and
sort of gets critical of them and it's kind of like, why are we doing this?
Okay.
And the, uh, one of the, one of the best things to look at, and this is what
really started, the first thing that started my journey was, uh, vaccines.
If you remember back in the 1990s, there was a shift.
from every year vaccines, and then they suggested, I'll put in
brackets, every three year vaccines.
They actually didn't suggest every three years, they suggested
it the most every three years.
Uh, but nobody read the at most part, they just put it on three years
if they were switching schedules.
But my question was, why are we even looking at the three year thing?
Because we know they last a lot longer.
So, so I thought we started on that path, and then along
with that, I had my own dog.
And there I was putting I, as I call it, the kibble that I
was supposed to be selling to clients into my dog's food bowl.
And, uh, I thought, oh, this is kind of getting boring.
And so I started making my own food, going that route.
And then it was more a case of Uh, and this is really interesting.
The, with our, with our dog, and she was a lab pit bull cross thingy that we got from
the shelter, you know, the whole story.
Uh, surprisingly, she didn't have any actual physical
ailments like most vets dogs do.
Uh, but we ended up, uh, just, uh, feeding her this other, you know, adding,
uh, homemade food, and her hair coat got better, and she really enjoyed it.
So, oh, this is kind of weird.
This isn't supposed to happen.
Because I was already feeding the premium food.
So, that makes you start looking at things.
And that was the path that we started back in the, in the 1990s.
And it was like, okay, we've got to start switching things up.
And, uh, and I took my first course in, actually it was acupuncture.
Uh, in, uh, I guess it'd be the year 2000.
And, and that was the start of everything.
And that is I moved right into the holistic field.
I practiced with my wife.
She's a veterinarian as well.
And between the two of us, we created a holistic practice, which was totally
different from what we had envisioned we were going to be doing together.
And so that really got things going.
And now, uh, because I've, I've moved out of practice and I'm just doing the,
just doing the education part, uh, the, uh, now I'm, my reach is so much bigger.
I'm really helping a lot more people, uh, and through my courses, uh,
I'm really changing things on how people look at the holistic world.
Anke: Hmm.
I love that.
I was thinking, boy, wish I'd met him.
Well, when I first got my first dog in 2004, it was the same thing.
The vet told me here, get the premium kibble, you know, and he had skin
problems and all kinds of, you know, digestion wasn't right and
the fur wasn't looking too good.
And then I came across an ebook that somebody had written who had a similar,
you know, his dog passed away early.
And he started looking and I, the only thing I remember from
that book was read the labels.
And I started to look at the ingredient list of the kibble and any dog food.
I've never given my dog any of that ever again, you know, and there was the
same experience, you know, like health, you know, the, the, the code, the,
everything changed with, you know, yeah.
So.
The people, like, are you aiming at people like me, if you say,
well, okay, your, your educational programs, are they aimed at other
vets and, or dog owners, or which one
Jeff: primarily?
No, I have taught veterinary assistance for 20 years, actually.
Uh, and so that, that's for people that want to work at vet hospitals,
but that's not a holistic program.
Uh, there's this, the only one that would ever fly was Dimensional, which I
started two, over two decades ago, and I'm finishing that in the next two months.
I'll be leaving that to somebody else.
Um, but the, no, the courses I'm teaching in terms of holistic work
are not geared towards veterinarians.
Uh, they're geared, I've got two levels.
One is the, I call it the entry person who's going, I heard about something
called holistic, okay, and they're wondering what's the first steps and,
and the first steps, of course, are going through the food and figuring
out what to do, and then, uh, reduce, reducing the vaccines, so you're not
doing any harm, uh, trying to eliminate some of the insecticides, the poisonous
insecticides you're putting in the body, uh, so that's, that's the beginnings.
And so I've got a, I've got a program for the beginning people, and then I've got
one for, it is called Become Your Own Vet.
And what that's for is that, for example, if you've been feeding, uh, homemade
or raw for the last decade, you're, you've really sorted out all the things
I just talked about, then you start looking at, Okay, what are the things
I can really start fine tuning here?
So when my dog has diarrhea, What am I going to do with this, you know,
rather than having to zip through the, I call it the textbooks, which
I guess now it's called internet, but that way you can get some really good
ideas on how to treat things yourself.
And a lot of it is being able to just find out what's going on.
That way you've got your own options on what you can
Anke: do.
That's so incredible, Harfolk, because like especially I'm just thinking, oh
my god, you know, because here it's a lot of the time, actually when I started
researching for Leo and for my dogs, I found that a lot, especially around the
vaccinations, a lot of the, what I felt, opinions that made more sense to me.
were actually coming from Canada, right?
And if they didn't, I don't think they've actually made the Spanish textbooks yet.
So if you go to a vet here, you'll get this, Oh no, no, we
need to vaccinate every year.
And they can't tell you a kind of a medical reason why that would be,
you know, so to be able to advocate.
You know, be an advocate for your own dog.
I think that is so incredibly helpful.
You don't depend on, you know, I guess it's like with our own health as well.
It's that same like taking responsibility, taking ownership of it and not passing
it, farming it out to, hey, you tell me what to do with my health.
Yeah,
Jeff: taking ownership is the big one, right?
And the, I mean, probably the best, best example of that is the vaccine issue.
, uh, because they're, what, what's happened is a lot of people, uh,
this is what, this is what happens, and this is what goes wrong.
A lot of people just start reading things on the internet and all
they read is vaccines are bad.
They're deadly.
Avoid them.
And that's the end of it.
You know, and it's kind of like my, my, uh, query mind
said, well, what is it exactly?
And what do we really know about what vaccines do?
Okay.
And so the, I mean, very simply, the reason the alarm went off on vaccines was
back in the 19, 1995, they, they found out that, oh, Vaccine, the injection
of vaccines was causing cancer in cats.
And it's like, oh, there's something not right here.
And so that spread into, then spread into the dog world.
And it's not the fact that the injections cause cancer in dogs.
The question was, well why, in cats we're looking at reducing
to every three years or longer.
Why aren't we doing that in Dogland?
And so it spread into the Dogland.
And the, what we found out after that, or before that actually, was
that vaccines actually do cause harm.
And that is they can trigger hemolytic anemia.
If you've ever heard of that, it's where the immune system,
it's an autoimmune disorder.
It's where the immune system attacks the red blood cells in the bloodstream.
It can make them so anemic that they die from it.
Okay, so it's a major, major problem.
Uh, the other thing, of course, is that you can have, uh, triggering
bone inflammation in young puppies.
So you give the vaccine and then all of a sudden their joints are just on fire.
And it's called hypertrophic osteodystrophy, which is a great big term.
Um, but the point is that it's, that's linked to vaccines that
have lots of things in, what we call multivalent vaccines.
You know, and then the, uh, the other things that, uh, of course is
vaccines can make allergies worse.
And there's a big debate on whether or not vaccines can actually trigger
the allergy in the first place.
But the point is, if we've got a dog that's predisposed to
having allergies, look out.
You don't want to vaccinate during their allergy season, or you
don't want to vaccinate, period.
Okay, and then the most common disease that dogs die from right now is cancer.
There is certainly, there's a very proposed link there.
I'm still looking for papers that can put this whole thing together,
but this is where the problem lies.
Conventional vets say a vaccine reaction only occurs within 48 hours.
Anke: Ah, so you never catch any long term.
Jeff: Right.
Yeah, and that's where the problem lies.
And so it depends on how you decipher the data.
Even the hemolytic anemia thing, which usually occurs about three
weeks after the vaccine, they say, no, it's got nothing to do with it.
Well, yes it is, you know.
And, but the other, the kicker about that one is, in the conventional text,
it says, If you've had a dog with hemolytic anemia, don't vaccinate it.
Anke: So they do know then, you know,
Jeff: I mean, but it doesn't trigger it.
Anke: No, no, no, no, no.
It's nothing to do with.
Yeah.
So, so obviously the vaccines are given to prevent certain diseases.
Like that's the idea.
Right.
So.
So what's, what's one to do then?
Like the vet here will tell me, you know, like you've got to vaccinate
and even like, I mean, I don't know, like here there's certain things
that are like legally required, you know, on the other hand, it's like,
well, I don't want to pump more stuff into my dogs than, than, you know.
Jeff: Okay, so let's look at the one that isn't usually legally required, and that's
for dogs is distemper and parvo vaccines.
Right?
And we can get away with giving, uh, rather than doing the puppy series
where you do 8, 12, 16 weeks or whatever numbers they come up with, you can get
away with just giving one after 16 weeks.
Okay, as in that's when all the, this is complicated stuff, all the maternal
antibodies have gone, there's not going to be any more interference with the vaccine.
You can give it and about 97 percent of dogs respond to a vaccine over 16 weeks.
Now, when you were younger, Anke, You probably had some
vaccines when you were this tall.
How many boosters have you had since you've been an adult?
Anke: Well, I, I mean, that's, that's the thing.
Like, I only had one and that was for a trip to Peru where it was
required to have certain vaccines.
But other than that, you know, it wouldn't, it wouldn't happen.
Jeff: No.
Yeah.
So it was a regulatory reason, not a medical reason.
No,
Anke: no, totally, yeah, because you needed to have them, or I don't
know, there was some that you needed, and some were like, okay, don't
go there without that, you know,
Jeff: so, yeah.
Yeah, so, so the point is that we, as a species, humans, we have vaccines
when we're little, little guys, and then we're good for the next 80 years.
Or something, right?
In other words, and I'll specify, the viral vaccines that we got when we were
young confer a lifetime immunity, okay?
In dog land, we know that Distemper and Parvo are definitely good for nine years.
That has been proven.
They've done all kinds of tests on that, so we know they last for nine years.
The World Small Animal Veterinary Association actually said we
know it works for nine years, comma, and possibly a lifetime.
They actually put that in there?
So, so based on that, if we can prove that the dog has responded to the vaccine that
it got at 16 weeks old, and we can do that by doing a titer, then We know that the
animals responded to the vaccine, we've got immunity there, we have, and then,
and what we also say is we have memory.
And memory means that we have cells of the immune system that have
responded, and they're going to be there for the lifetime of the animal.
And if you read any immunology text, it'll tell you that.
So, based on that, as long as we can prove that, that your puppy responded,
we do not need to give any more vaccines.
And as a side thing, we don't even need to do any more titers.
Because even if that level goes down, the immune system is still there.
It's primed.
It's ready to go.
And so, what happens then is if the disease came along and you've got
a dog that's 10 years old and it was exposed to Parvo, it has what's
called an anamnestic response.
And that means it's ready to go, and it charges up, and it kills the invader.
And this is the key.
If you ask veterinarians, how many dogs over 5 years old have
you ever seen with distemper
Anke: or pyro?
And so we can now associate with puppies,
Jeff: right?
That's right.
Yeah.
And so the point is And it's, it's a young dog disease, and if they've
been vaccinated, they are protected.
We know that.
And I was, I mean, when I was in vet school, turn the clock back 40 years,
I was told that, there's two things.
I was told that the, by the immunologists, that parvo
vaccines are really, really good.
And if you either have the vaccine or you have the disease in a dog,
you've got immunity for life.
I was told that by the immunology professors.
And then I went to the clinical side and they said, don't
forget to vaccinate every year.
I mean, it makes no sense, does it?
Okay.
So, so there you go.
So that's, that's what I call it in, in my dog world, the one and done routine.
And that is you can, you can get away with giving the one
vaccine and then you're done.
Uh, in terms of the other ones, and you're going to be talking about Lyme and Lepto
and all that, there's good justification for not doing those vaccines as well.
And that's something I go in, in my courses.
And that is, there's There's more side effects to the vaccine than there are
protection and so, so there's, there's good reasoning to, to avoid those as well.
Anke: Oh, but I'm so glad, like I'm, I'm so glad to, you know, to kind of
get that confirmation because like, like everything I've looked at, it's like
that, that's what it points to, but you go, don't go tell a vet here, you go tell
them, you know, it's like, you've got to.
You know, and, and so, well, I'm not an expert, like, you know, that's,
that's the conundrum of, like, you find yourself where you're sort of critical
of, of the, the, what you're being told, you know, but then it's like,
yeah, but they're the expert, right?
So who am I to know, right?
But on the other, on the other hand, like, if it doesn't make sense to me, I
don't want to give it to my dog, right?
So.
Jeff: That's right.
Yeah.
Well, the, the key is you're the one who looks after your kid.
The four legged kid, okay?
It's just like you having a two year old daughter.
You are in charge of all the food, all the vaccines, all the everything that's
going to create that person, uh, in good health and growing up to be, uh, you
know, a wonderful person later on, right?
And so the key is, you're making decisions on your dogs all the time.
And if you can get the education, then you'll know why
you're making those decisions.
And you'll be able to make them in the best health for their animal,
that's all totally possible.
Anke: Yeah, and make them with more confidence, right?
So, yeah, that's So, where can people go to, you know, get hold of the courses,
get, you know, find out more about you?
Well,
Jeff: if they want to find me, uh, internet, obviously.
And my, um, my website is New Earth Vet.
So, New Earth Vet, all in one word.
And if you, if you go there, uh, I've actually got a book, uh, and it's
called Your Holistic Pet, a guidebook to optimal health, and it's free.
And so I just get on that page, go down, you'll see a link and you can
download that book and that'll get you started and talks about a lot about
what I just did, along with all the other things I haven't talked about too.
Okay.
So that's a great way to get an introduction.
Go moving into the holistic world.
Anke: I love that.
Thank you so much for, you know, opening that whole world for people
because I think there is so much good we can do for our docs by,
you know, taking that ownership and getting involved and getting educated.
So thank you for your work and thanks for coming on.
Jeff: You're very welcome.
Thank you for having me, Anke.
Thanks so much for listening.
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That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.