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Welcome back to Count Me In,

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IMA's podcast about all things affecting
the accounting and finance world.

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This is your host Mitch Roshong,

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and I'm here to introduce our featured
guest for episode 172 of our series.

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This conversation features Dan Toma,

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an innovation thought leader and the
co-author of the award-winning book,

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The Corporate Startup and
Innovation Accounting.

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He joined Count Me In to talk
about elements of the book,

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specifically the importance of the
people in the organization and further

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defining innovation, accounting,

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Dan shares practical examples from
his own experience as a product owner,

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entrepreneur, corporate
transformation leader.

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So keep listening as we head
over to the conversation now.

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So Dan, as you know,

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some something that companies have
always done is look at their employees as

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assets and many times when
there's a financial crisis,

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the first step is let's cut
half the staff and move forward.

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But with the ever changing times
of business and acceptability,

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that's not acceptable anymore.
And so as businesses grow,

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they're encouraged to grow the value
of their assets and the same approach

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probably should be taken toward people.

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What benefit do you see
that in the workplace?

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Right. What should I
say? I mean, you know,

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you walk in those corporate buildings,

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you work into various offices
and you see slogans on the wall.

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Employees are our biggest asset on

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all that stuff. Right. But when you
go and look in the financial records,

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you actually end up seeing the fact
that employees are listed as cost

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as liability because they have
obviously a salary attached

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to them. Right. So, yes, it would
be great to have more companies,

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think of their employees as
real assets, beyond the slogan,

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beyond the mottos, if you want,
and start investing in them,

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if they will start
treating people as assets,

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they will obviously start investing
and nurturing their skills,

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care about their mental wellbeing.

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Do all these things that you
would normally do to an asset.

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Like if you have a truck you are
going to wash it and, you know,

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change your oil and put
the best parts in it.

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But if you have a UX designer where
if you have, a great HR person,

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how do you make sure that
you actually treat that,

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that particular individual as an asset?

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But there are actually companies that
do that. And, these companies are,

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you know, football clubs and
in general sports franchises,

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they have their players list as assets.

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I'm not saying now that we should go in
that direction and trade my accounting

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person from my bank, with
your accounting person,

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from the whatever automotive company.
But it would be fun, right? So yeah,

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in general, the, the benefits will,

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obviously go towards the
employees themselves.

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Like they will have the most to benefit

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from. And obviously by them
being treated as assets,

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the company will, obviously
benefit. But I think, short term,

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the benefit will be with
the employees later,

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the benefit will come to the company
as a result of the employees being,

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regarded as assets, however,

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financial accounting considers
them as liabilities. Hmm.

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That makes sense. So I want to
kind of bring the conversation,

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back to your book.

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My co-host mentioned has mentioned your
book in our intro and in your book,

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you cover nine myths,
about measuring innovation.

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And I found them very fascinating.

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And I was wondering if you could walk
us through a couple of those on how they

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relate to accounting.

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Yeah. So,

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we've uncovered those myths as we
were working with our clients and,

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we decided to put them in the
book because we fought and we,

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know there is a lot of people out
there that still unfortunately live by

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those myth. So one of the first ones,

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and we actually wrote about this in the
first book in the corporate startup as

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well, is that people tend to view R&D

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expenditure as a synonym
for innovation prowess. And,

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this is very far from the reality, if
you go, and, I encourage you actually,

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the audience to go and research two tops.

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one top is the BCG most
innovative companies,

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of this year,

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I think is 50 companies they put in
the top and the other one is the,

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top that comes from the European
commission, if I'm not mistaken.

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And it tracks the biggest
R&D spenders off that year.

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And if you put the top side by side,

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you're going to realize that the
company that is number one R&D

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spender of the year is probably
where near the top three or five

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is,

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in the innovation top. Take,
for example, pharma industry.

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In the pharma industry,

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they're about three to four companies
on the most innovative company list.

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And then there's probably
12 or 15 of them on the,

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on the R&D spenders,

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same for automotive and other industries
aerospace. Again, it's a good example.

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So this is one of the biggest
myths that we uncovered,

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while working with, while
working with the companies.

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The other one was that innovation can't
be measured because innovation is about

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creativity and creativity
can't be measured. Anybody

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that worked in innovation, either
being, employed in a large organization,

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part of the innovation department, or,

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had their own startup know that,
creativity is probably 1% of,

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what it means to be successful in the
innovation world, the rest 99%. And again,

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don't quote me on the
percentages here, are,

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the 99% refers to discipline refers to,

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being methodical in, in your work,

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being very diligent in your actions
and in the follow up to your

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actions. So again,

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obviously since we're
talking now about a process,

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processes can be measured so you
can measure innovation very well.

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Another myth is that the
success of innovation venture
can only be measured once

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it's in the market.

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Actually you can measure success or
the potential success of innovation

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ventures very early on.
This is how investors live.

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This is how VCs companies, exist.

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The fact that you wait until
something is in the market to return

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a certain dollar amount, it's another

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form of success. And,

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some people could see already
that success happening early on.

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Therefore they invest in early stage
in that particular startup or in

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that particular idea, another myth
that we found, and this was well,

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we were researching indicators.

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People tend to fit that
everything is a KPI, right?

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Everything is a key
performance indicator actually.

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We need to make a distinction between,

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and everybody that's in business needs
to make a distinction between KPIs

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and the KRIs, key results indicators. The

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KPI, the ones with the P referring
to the performance of the process,

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the KRI is referred to the outcome
of that particular process. So,

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usually if we want to improve something,

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we need to understand
the process behind it.

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Otherwise we won't be able to improve
it, say you are a manager. And, I don't

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know, you're working in a plant,
you want to improve, output.

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You need to understand the process
that leads to that particular output

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increase. if you are working in a bank
and you want to increase the revenue,

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that's great, but,

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there are many ways for you to
increase revenue for once you can just

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sell the building. Yes, that will
increase revenue, definitely.

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But is that sustainable in the long run?

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I think that if you don't
understand how something is

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made, you won't be able to improve it.

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So it's very important
for people to pay very,

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clear attention to how things
are being made, the process,

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the value creation process, if you want,

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and then start putting measures on
top because not everything is a key

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performance indicator. Some things are
key results indicators, and those are a,

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results I'm repeating
myself here. Those are,

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that's a result of a process.

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Obviously we uncovered
other things as well, like,

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all innovation measures,
measurements work,

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successfully for any type
of innovation. Again,

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that's very far from the truth because,

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depending on the innovation you are doing,

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you need to adjust the form
of indicators you put on top.

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If you're doing, more sustainable
innovation, continuous improvement,

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different indicators are needed,

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than in case of an organization
that does more disruptive stuff.

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The indicators need to fit, the purpose
and the purpose is to improve something,

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right. I measure it in
order to improve it.

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I can't just copy the homework from the
company across the street. And, again,

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I can't copy it from, one
industry to the other,

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those need to speak to my reality.

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Those need to speak to my context and to
my circumstances is why I very importa

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nt to, first of all,

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define what you wanna measure and why
you wanna measure that before you put

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indicators on top. And
obviously these were just like,

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I let's see half of the
myths we uncovered in,

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in the book. I would
encourage people to, you know,

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pick up the book and find the
other myths by themselves.

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These are the ones that are
probably the closest to my heart.

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Thanks so much for that,
covering those myths for us.

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And I wanted to kind of help our audience
kind of see where you were going.

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This podcast is for all things
affecting. It touches all things,

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affecting the accounting and
finance world. And, you know,

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your book talks about innovation
accounting. So maybe we can start there.

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What do we talking about when we
talk about innovation, accounting,

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and then we can kind of more
dig into it a little bit?

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Sure. My pleasure. Just, just so you know,

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topic that I had my lowest grade in
the MBA was, accounting, finance,

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and accounting. So, yes, I'm

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in a great position to write the book
that it's called innovation, accounting.

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That recommends me, the, the idea
of, of innovation accounting. again,

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it's not to replace standard
or financial accounting in any

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way.

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The idea of innovation accounting
is to build a system that's fit for

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purpose. And that purpose is to measure,

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progress and to measure results
in environments that are,

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high on uncertainty and,
environments that are,

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let's say more volatile
than the standard core

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business, plus environments,

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where there are no
financial metrics to go by.

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What do I mean by that?

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There are many companies out
there that are successful today,

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financially that probably
for the first five,

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even 10 years were totally unsuccessful.

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However, there were investors
that were willing to bat on those,

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Tesla is one example, Netflix,
again, another example,

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Amazon,

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it's a very known example of a
company that wasn't profitable for,

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I think at least five years,

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how however their valuation
was through the roof. So,

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with innovation accounting,

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we're essentially proposing
a complimentary set of

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metrics to the financial ones
that are to be used in the

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absence of financial metrics, where
in the absence of financial results,

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those metrics are, designed
to prove to investors,

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to prove to decision makers that yes,

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this particular venture should be
considered for growth in the future.

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You should nurture that you should
invest in that further because there is a

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gold pot waiting on
you six months down the

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line, five years down the line
in two years down the line.

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So basically it takes the
guessing out of investing in risky

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ventures. And again,

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it's there to compliment
financial accounting.

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we're not proposing a
different set of indicators.

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We're not proposing to scrap
the, the accounting books.

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We are that actually
accountants and innovators work

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together for the greater good
of those particular ideas,

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be it startup ideas, or be it ideas
within an existing organization.

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There is a research by professor
at, New York University,

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Baruch Lev, and he studied,

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the way investors take
decisions whenever they invested

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in companies listed at the stock exchange.
And, he analyzed data for, I think,

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20 years then at least if not
20. And, he concluded that,

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as the years have gone by the use of

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finance information for investors as
a meaningful way of predicting the

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company's future has gone down. If,

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one in three decisions were
being taken based on financial

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results in the nineties.

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I think now it's one in
10 being taken solely on,

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on financial performance.

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So now investors are looking
at alternative sources
of information when they

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wanna place those bats,
the stock exchange, yes,

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some of them actually go to Twitter and
see what that particular CEO tweeted

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about. I'm not saying that's
not a good thing to do,

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but that's probably further from
the science than other methods are.

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So we,

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this is why we encourage
organizations to adopt a system

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that's able to, present to investors,

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but also internally the picture
of growth over the coming

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future. Again, in the
absence of financial results,

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we're talking about what's
going on in your R&D,

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we'll actually discontinue that.
How many ideas from that particular,

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innovation hub,

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can you count on to drive
growth in the near future?

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How does your portfolio
distribution look like?

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Are you heading to a Kodak moment, right?

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Are you heading to becoming
disruptive in the near future?

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Are you diverse enough to go
through something like COVID,

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that was totally unexpected, you know,

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talking about COVID it was very funny
because just at the beginning of it,

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Zoom's valuation was equal to
the valuation of all us based

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airline companies, just,
you know, to get an idea,

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get a sense of, how
COVID changed everything.

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And I was just wondering
then how many of the

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CEOs of those airline
companies had ideas in their

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pipeline three, five years ago
that had to do with communication,

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with self disruption,
essentially like, Hey dear CEO,

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we know that we have a lot of
business travelers let's invest

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in a zoom like idea. I'm wondering
if any of the CEOs had that on their,

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you know,

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00:16:09,300 --> 00:16:13,550
in their pipeline and they
willingly discontinue it because of

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fear of self disruption. I don't think
I'll ever get the question to that.

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The answer to that question.

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00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:24,350
I don't think you ever
will. Definitely not. Yeah.

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00:16:25,050 --> 00:16:28,390
So as I'm thinking about, you know,
what you've been saying, you know,

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the examples you gave of where that
applies are very applicable to many

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businesses,

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but one of the main things that
a lot of companies are realizing,

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especially with the onset of COVID is
they've gotta implement new systems all

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the time, like, you know, new financial
systems, new Zoom systems, Teams,

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everything, you know, you gotta
get all those things together.

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And so let's maybe, maybe if we can look
at, you know, implementing a system,

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because that's a lot of things we talk
about is people need to implement systems

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all the time. What if we look at
implementing a new system, you know,

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obviously it looks different
from company to company,

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but if we look at the principles that
you laid out for innovation, accounting,

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do you think that you could apply
that to implementing a new system?

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Obviously there are the financial aspect
of it and the accountants will take

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care of that. You know,
how much does it cost,

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but there's other intangibles that I
think your principles kind of help out

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with.

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Yeah. So, essentially in the
book, we talk exactly about that,

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about the fact that,

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the innovation accounting systems should
speak to your company and your company

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needs. Obviously we propose KPIs.

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We propose what needs to be
in the system, but I believe,

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or actually know from
experience that what we propose,

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will get customized
probably at least 30 to 40%,

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when it gets,

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when it gets applied because the pharma
company is not an airline and the

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00:17:55,740 --> 00:17:59,760
automotive industry is not the
banking industry and fast mover,

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00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:04,680
consumer goods are not media companies
or telco companies. I mean, no,

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I'm not kidding myself that we build
something that works across the board.

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However, I think that what we've
built is good enough for people to

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start and, to customize on. What's
important is to follow the principles.

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The tactics will follow, the
customization will follow.

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So we lay down six
principles. First of all,

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if you are building an
innovation accounting system,

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it needs to be company wide. You
should not allow your retail,

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banking arm to have different
measures than your wholesale banking

295
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arm. Why? Because at one point,

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those teams need to talk with each other
and the CEO or the CFO needs to have

297
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:50,450
transparency over what's
happening in retail,

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as much as he needs to see
what's happening in wholesale.

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If the indicator is different, you won't
be able to compare apples with peaches.

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So it's very important. That's
going to be company wide.

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So everybody in the company is
talking about the same thing.

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00:19:05,371 --> 00:19:09,930
Another very important principle is
that the system needs to be able to

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abstract information. Now,

304
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,520
abstracting information means that you
take something from the team level and

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00:19:16,180 --> 00:19:21,120
you are taking it through multiple
layers and taking it all the

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way to the executive board.

307
00:19:24,780 --> 00:19:29,400
You don't expect an executive to
have time to understand, for example,

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00:19:29,460 --> 00:19:34,030
the learning we're experimenting and
velocity of a certain, team. However,

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they will understand cost of innovation
or they will understand time to

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00:19:39,090 --> 00:19:39,311
market,

311
00:19:39,311 --> 00:19:43,710
or they will understand average conversion
rate of your innovation practice.

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00:19:44,190 --> 00:19:48,390
This is done for abstraction. Plus
abstraction for another benefit.

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00:19:48,391 --> 00:19:53,260
It forces you to only
track indicators that are

314
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:54,061
connected to water indicators.

315
00:19:54,061 --> 00:19:57,900
Cause otherwise if you just track this
one indicator and it doesn't do anything,

316
00:19:58,140 --> 00:20:01,380
but just show you a number
and it's not actionable,

317
00:20:01,381 --> 00:20:04,780
it doesn't inform any other
layer of the organization.

318
00:20:04,781 --> 00:20:08,940
It doesn't have any impact
downstream, better not track it.

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00:20:08,941 --> 00:20:10,100
So abstraction is probably,

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00:20:10,380 --> 00:20:14,930
or at least the one that
is the closest to my heart.

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00:20:14,931 --> 00:20:17,930
The third principle
will have to be around,

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surfacing intangible assets.

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00:20:19,971 --> 00:20:24,650
The innovation accounting system needs
to surface those assets such as cultures,

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00:20:24,651 --> 00:20:28,810
such as skill, such as process. Again,

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00:20:28,830 --> 00:20:30,810
we started a conversation talking about,

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00:20:31,060 --> 00:20:35,080
about skills and talking about upskilling
people and treating them like assets,

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00:20:35,370 --> 00:20:36,840
innovation, accounting,

328
00:20:37,380 --> 00:20:41,600
an innovation accounting system
should be able to do exactly that.

329
00:20:41,830 --> 00:20:46,280
Another thing that again, ties
back to our previous company,

330
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:48,520
you know, question,

331
00:20:48,521 --> 00:20:52,880
an innovation accounting system needs to
highlight the risk of disruption the co

332
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,480
mpany is under. It needs to be
there flashing that red light guys.

333
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,960
We only have this on this
core banking product,

334
00:21:00,990 --> 00:21:05,440
and we're only living off that.
Yes, we can milk that cow for,

335
00:21:05,441 --> 00:21:07,590
I don't know how long,

336
00:21:07,591 --> 00:21:11,110
but let's not kid ourselves
and be honest and say,

337
00:21:11,690 --> 00:21:15,470
we only have that one cash cow and
there's nothing else in the pipeline.

338
00:21:15,471 --> 00:21:19,270
And in case people will stop using
credit cards tomorrow, we are screwed.

339
00:21:19,470 --> 00:21:24,190
And in case people will stop
flying for this tomorrow,

340
00:21:24,220 --> 00:21:26,750
we are screwed, right?

341
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,380
That's the role of the innovation
accounting system to be there,

342
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,100
to warn people or at least,

343
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,900
make people pay attention to the
fact that disruption might happen.

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Nobody's saying when it will
happen or what form it will take.

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00:21:41,101 --> 00:21:43,380
And even if your company will
be affected, but at least,

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00:21:43,381 --> 00:21:46,340
have that warning sign there.
That's that's flashing, Hey,

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00:21:46,341 --> 00:21:48,850
you have to do something
about it. Obviously,

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00:21:48,851 --> 00:21:52,770
another important principle
is that the innovation

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00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:57,050
accounting system needs to help
you improve the innovation system.

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00:21:57,051 --> 00:21:59,810
Every company has an innovation system,

351
00:21:59,811 --> 00:22:04,490
has processes has a real
governance on it. If you are using,

352
00:22:04,590 --> 00:22:07,050
we're thinking about deploying
innovation, accounting system,

353
00:22:07,051 --> 00:22:09,000
that particular outcomes,

354
00:22:09,001 --> 00:22:13,600
that particular insight from
the innovation accounting
system needs to inform

355
00:22:13,620 --> 00:22:16,800
how you're going to go about
improving your innovation system,

356
00:22:16,801 --> 00:22:21,200
being by upskilling people
or, hiring other people.

357
00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:25,000
We're focusing in one
area and not in the other,

358
00:22:25,001 --> 00:22:29,590
or deciding to go only for
open innovation programs rather

359
00:22:29,591 --> 00:22:30,870
than internal innovation,

360
00:22:30,871 --> 00:22:34,590
whatever whatever's gonna end
up being what's important is

361
00:22:35,490 --> 00:22:40,390
that that particular decision
for improvements of your
innovation system needs

362
00:22:40,391 --> 00:22:41,750
to be rooted in data.

363
00:22:42,610 --> 00:22:45,430
And that data can only come from
the innovation accounting system.

364
00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:47,710
Financial accounting system can help.

365
00:22:47,711 --> 00:22:50,700
You can tell you what at the
innovation accounting system is doing,

366
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,700
but it's taking way too long
for you to learn that. And,

367
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,300
it doesn't cover everything.

368
00:22:56,630 --> 00:23:01,260
So this is why it's important to
have an adjacent system running

369
00:23:01,261 --> 00:23:05,740
side by side. And lastly, probably again,

370
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:09,060
an important principle
to have in mind is that,

371
00:23:09,061 --> 00:23:13,450
whenever you're designing your
system always consider the

372
00:23:13,930 --> 00:23:15,810
key success factors of your industry.

373
00:23:15,811 --> 00:23:20,170
Don't design a indicator
system without understanding

374
00:23:20,430 --> 00:23:25,370
what it takes to win within that
industry and starting from what

375
00:23:25,371 --> 00:23:26,210
it takes to win.

376
00:23:26,211 --> 00:23:31,120
Try to understand what are the
indicators that are telling you

377
00:23:31,180 --> 00:23:33,280
if you are going to actually win.

378
00:23:33,300 --> 00:23:37,720
So it's very important to have that
in mind when you build your innovation

379
00:23:37,721 --> 00:23:38,554
accounting system.

380
00:23:39,910 --> 00:23:42,600
That makes a lot of sense what you
were saying about the principles.

381
00:23:42,980 --> 00:23:46,320
And as I'm thinking about that, and as
we kind of wrap up our conversation,

382
00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:51,320
any initiative needs to be implemented
by the people within the organization.

383
00:23:51,321 --> 00:23:53,200
You said that if there's
an innovation accounting,

384
00:23:53,340 --> 00:23:56,120
it needs to be a company wide
implementation, you know,

385
00:23:56,121 --> 00:23:59,360
so you have the one aspect of change
management of getting that implemented,

386
00:23:59,380 --> 00:24:00,400
but then the other side of it,

387
00:24:01,020 --> 00:24:04,910
how are you able to take all these things
that we're learning through different

388
00:24:04,911 --> 00:24:09,790
aspects and put it in a format that
the leaders of the organization can

389
00:24:09,860 --> 00:24:12,350
read and digest? You know, like what,

390
00:24:12,370 --> 00:24:16,750
how are we looking at these KPIs
or these KRIs and seeing how can,

391
00:24:17,330 --> 00:24:18,630
how can they digest those things?

392
00:24:18,631 --> 00:24:21,750
Because they have to see the big picture
and understand is it actually working?

393
00:24:22,170 --> 00:24:24,950
And like you said, it may not, you
may not see the results right away.

394
00:24:25,020 --> 00:24:26,940
It may take a little bit
to see those results.

395
00:24:28,410 --> 00:24:32,280
Right. We usually try to
keep things very simple.

396
00:24:32,281 --> 00:24:36,960
So top layer indicators for us usually

397
00:24:37,230 --> 00:24:41,840
revolve around, time being
saved, money being saved,

398
00:24:41,841 --> 00:24:46,630
profitability being increased, and
revenue being increased. That's it? Those,

399
00:24:46,631 --> 00:24:51,530
those four, yes, there might be another
one, as I said around disruption.

400
00:24:51,531 --> 00:24:55,210
And how likely are you to get disrupted?
Do you have a diverse portfolio?

401
00:24:55,211 --> 00:24:59,450
That's very qualitative if you want.
Yes, it's a quantitative indicator,

402
00:24:59,451 --> 00:25:03,330
but it's very qualitative. You can't
deposit that into a bank account, right.

403
00:25:03,331 --> 00:25:08,000
But what you can deposit in a bank account
is profitability, is top line growth,

404
00:25:08,260 --> 00:25:11,000
is reduced time to market,

405
00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:13,280
reduced time to success.

406
00:25:13,281 --> 00:25:18,120
Those are things that obviously
you can go and deposit to the

407
00:25:18,121 --> 00:25:19,080
bank, diversity of your portfolio,

408
00:25:19,081 --> 00:25:23,200
not really but it's good
to have a check on that.

409
00:25:25,740 --> 00:25:28,990
So what about the change management
and getting everybody involved?

410
00:25:28,991 --> 00:25:33,310
Because I can imagine that implementing
this on top of everything else that

411
00:25:33,470 --> 00:25:34,510
somebody's doing can be overwhelming.

412
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:39,630
Yeah, of course, no, this is
not a job for one person. And,

413
00:25:40,370 --> 00:25:43,950
this is, definitely not a job for,
for an intern or a summer student.

414
00:25:43,990 --> 00:25:47,670
You should actually
dedicate a, a good amount,

415
00:25:48,020 --> 00:25:50,820
good amount of people to this
initiative by good amount.

416
00:25:50,821 --> 00:25:52,980
I don't mean hundreds of people,

417
00:25:52,981 --> 00:25:57,180
but probably more like four or five
people that are full time on this for

418
00:25:57,181 --> 00:25:59,060
probably at least a year, I would say,

419
00:25:59,140 --> 00:26:02,060
given our experience of having
done this with, with banks,

420
00:26:02,061 --> 00:26:03,260
with engineering
companies typically, yeah,

421
00:26:03,261 --> 00:26:08,020
it's like four or five people for about
a year and you go going to have the sy

422
00:26:08,020 --> 00:26:11,450
stem. But what's very
important to remember is that
you need to have innovation

423
00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:13,090
happening in your organization.

424
00:26:13,091 --> 00:26:16,250
You can't talk about let's create
an innovation accounting system,

425
00:26:16,251 --> 00:26:19,890
but there is nobody working
on innovation in our company.

426
00:26:22,350 --> 00:26:27,210
So if you are one of those companies
that hasn't yet started the journey on

427
00:26:27,211 --> 00:26:31,200
innovation, I would encourage you.
First of all, start your journey,

428
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:34,360
do some mistakes, accelerate some teams,

429
00:26:34,820 --> 00:26:37,800
invest in the local startup community.

430
00:26:37,801 --> 00:26:41,640
Do those early things before you build
the innovation accounting system.

431
00:26:41,641 --> 00:26:46,440
Innovation accounting is required
for organizations that have been at

432
00:26:46,980 --> 00:26:50,840
this game for a good amount of
time, three, five, even 10 years.

433
00:26:50,841 --> 00:26:52,960
They will have a need for that.

434
00:26:52,961 --> 00:26:57,480
Starting with innovation accounting day
one is just going to be too much of a

435
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,040
hustle, putting it together
for very little benefit.

436
00:27:00,041 --> 00:27:03,750
I would encourage you to spend end
that money doing innovation first,

437
00:27:03,751 --> 00:27:06,790
before building the system. Now,

438
00:27:06,810 --> 00:27:10,470
in terms of who's on the team,
try to not having one sided,

439
00:27:10,471 --> 00:27:13,790
try not to have it stuffed only
with people from innovation,

440
00:27:13,791 --> 00:27:18,350
because then they will tend to have an
us versus them conversation whenever they

441
00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:22,030
refer to the people in finance or control.

442
00:27:22,170 --> 00:27:25,540
So I would encourage a
cross-functional team that,

443
00:27:25,541 --> 00:27:29,660
includes people from HR, people from
product, people from innovation,

444
00:27:29,661 --> 00:27:32,100
people from finance, obviously, you know,

445
00:27:32,101 --> 00:27:36,940
try to consider all aspects of
what your organization is doing.

446
00:27:36,941 --> 00:27:41,780
Because innovation is not
something that is done in a

447
00:27:41,781 --> 00:27:46,210
lab is not thing that's done on an island
in the sun it's everybody's job. And,

448
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:47,650
by being everybody's job,

449
00:27:47,910 --> 00:27:51,770
that should also be reflected in the team.

450
00:27:51,771 --> 00:27:54,650
That's putting together an
innovation accounting system.

451
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,170
This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast,

452
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,440
providing you with the latest perspectives
about leaders from the accounting and

453
00:28:05,441 --> 00:28:07,480
finance profession. If
you like what you heard.

454
00:28:07,580 --> 00:28:10,520
And you'd like to be counted in for
more relevant accounting and finance

455
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:12,600
education, visit IMA's
website at www.imanet.org.