WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.210 --> 00:00:02.110 Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Equine Assisted World. 00:00:02.140 --> 00:00:05.260 I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New York Times best selling 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:08.330 author of The Horse Boy, The Long Ride Home, and The Healing Land. 00:00:08.379 --> 00:00:11.889 Before I jump in with today's guest, I just want to say a huge 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.139 thank you to you, our audience, for helping to make this happen. 00:00:15.229 --> 00:00:15.999 I have a request. 00:00:16.520 --> 00:00:22.009 If you like what we do, please like, subscribe, tell a friend. 00:00:22.579 --> 00:00:24.319 It really helps us get this work done. 00:00:24.529 --> 00:00:27.299 As you might know from my books, I'm an autism dad. 00:00:27.805 --> 00:00:30.645 And over the last 20 years, we've developed several 00:00:31.345 --> 00:00:35.285 equine assisted, neuroscience backed certification programs. 00:00:35.884 --> 00:00:38.485 If you'd like to find out more about them, go to newtrailslearning. 00:00:40.664 --> 00:00:40.814 com. 00:00:41.065 --> 00:00:43.665 So without further ado, let's meet today's guest. 00:00:44.605 --> 00:00:46.735 Welcome back to Equine Assisted World. 00:00:46.765 --> 00:00:50.335 Okay, I've got Pebbles Turbeville here. 00:00:50.365 --> 00:00:56.845 She is the CEO of Horses and Humans Research Foundation. 00:00:57.085 --> 00:01:00.025 If you don't know about them, you should know about them because I've known 00:01:00.025 --> 00:01:04.225 about them for about 15 years, and I've watched 'em grow from something quite 00:01:04.225 --> 00:01:06.205 small to something quite a lot bigger. 00:01:06.205 --> 00:01:07.315 And what they do is they. 00:01:07.645 --> 00:01:12.715 Fund studies into what we all in the equine assisted world do, which means that 00:01:12.745 --> 00:01:17.185 those of us who then need to get funding for our own programs can look to the 00:01:17.185 --> 00:01:22.135 studies that horses and humans Research Foundation have funded and basically use 00:01:22.135 --> 00:01:24.625 that data to show that we don't suck. 00:01:24.985 --> 00:01:27.865 And as we know, those of us who've been in it for a while 00:01:27.925 --> 00:01:29.905 know that this has been a problem. 00:01:30.295 --> 00:01:35.435 I think for people that are coming in now where equine assisted work is much 00:01:35.435 --> 00:01:40.025 more accepted, man, if you've been around 15, 20 years ago, like people just, ah, 00:01:40.025 --> 00:01:45.065 you guys just playing with ponies, you know, and we had to prove that what we 00:01:45.065 --> 00:01:49.295 were doing well, okay, it was playing with ponies, but that playing with 00:01:49.295 --> 00:01:55.175 ponies was really, really good for the human and like medically provably good. 00:01:55.775 --> 00:01:59.975 So horses and humans research foundation really got into the out ahead of this 00:01:59.975 --> 00:02:01.895 and got into the forefront of this early. 00:02:02.645 --> 00:02:05.225 And have been, I'd say, blazing the trail. 00:02:05.225 --> 00:02:09.305 And not just that, but sort of, you know, how a rising tide lifts all boats. 00:02:09.305 --> 00:02:14.645 They've been legitimizing us, I would say, for the last 15 or 20 years. 00:02:14.645 --> 00:02:19.515 So, I want to shut up now and have pebbles talk about what she does, but 00:02:19.575 --> 00:02:23.025 this is my big up because people like Pebbles are out there working on our 00:02:23.025 --> 00:02:26.725 behalf and you know, we need to support them and know what they're doing. 00:02:27.085 --> 00:02:32.605 And also, if you've got really interesting studies that you could turn them onto, 00:02:33.205 --> 00:02:34.405 pebbles are gonna be all about it. 00:02:34.405 --> 00:02:35.515 So, all right. 00:02:35.515 --> 00:02:38.275 Without further ado Pebbles, welcome. 00:02:38.735 --> 00:02:38.945 Thank you. 00:02:39.005 --> 00:02:39.570 Who are you? 00:02:39.570 --> 00:02:40.745 What do you do and why do you do it? 00:02:42.300 --> 00:02:42.301 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:02:42.300 --> 00:02:43.290 Well, thanks. 00:02:43.500 --> 00:02:45.120 That was a great introduction. 00:02:45.420 --> 00:02:49.680 I could talk about myself, but I really rather rather talk about HHRF 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:51.570 Forces and Humans Research Foundation. 00:02:52.050 --> 00:02:58.370 And I just need to jump in for a second and kind of give the honor to Molly 00:02:58.370 --> 00:03:03.860 Sweeney, our founder, because 20 years ago she was volunteering at a program 00:03:04.190 --> 00:03:06.970 in Texas when you were there nearby? 00:03:07.480 --> 00:03:07.860 Yeah, in Houston. 00:03:07.860 --> 00:03:07.870 Yeah. 00:03:07.870 --> 00:03:07.880 Yeah. 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:08.960 Sire. 00:03:09.230 --> 00:03:11.325 And she saw, you know. 00:03:12.060 --> 00:03:17.270 Those miracles that we see are just small steps for and people. 00:03:17.270 --> 00:03:19.940 And so she was like, how is this happening? 00:03:20.330 --> 00:03:25.790 And so her question, how really started this whole organization, it's 00:03:25.790 --> 00:03:29.600 kind of interesting how with the h and the horses and humans, but yeah, 00:03:29.930 --> 00:03:33.830 in the sense that she wanted to know how the horses were actually helping. 00:03:34.310 --> 00:03:38.840 So she gathered some people in the industry together. 00:03:39.410 --> 00:03:44.030 Decided, you know, we need to do something and fun and get research started. 00:03:44.870 --> 00:03:48.140 And so that happened 20 years ago. 00:03:48.260 --> 00:03:49.700 Here we are now. 00:03:49.990 --> 00:03:54.310 And she, she was really ahead of her time in some sense. 00:03:54.310 --> 00:03:54.490 Why was 00:03:54.490 --> 00:03:55.300 Rupert Isaacson: Molly doing this? 00:03:55.300 --> 00:03:56.350 Was she an academic? 00:03:56.350 --> 00:03:59.680 Like why did she have this idea to, to crush the moment? 00:03:59.680 --> 00:03:59.770 No, 00:04:00.385 --> 00:04:00.386 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:04:00.385 --> 00:04:02.765 it was all about being a volunteer. 00:04:03.125 --> 00:04:05.050 I mean, she loves horses. 00:04:05.050 --> 00:04:09.160 She grew up, her whole family was involved with horses, add horses. 00:04:09.640 --> 00:04:13.930 Her her children have horses or grandchildren ride. 00:04:14.235 --> 00:04:17.950 They, they all have this affection and, and bond with horses. 00:04:17.950 --> 00:04:21.400 But when she actually saw those kids. 00:04:22.300 --> 00:04:26.020 Speak for the first time or be able to walk better. 00:04:26.410 --> 00:04:30.910 All of those benefits that we see from equine assisted services. 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:35.260 She, she was like, okay, so how does this work? 00:04:35.260 --> 00:04:36.820 How, how is this happening? 00:04:37.150 --> 00:04:43.000 And that's why she wanted to start getting research behind it. 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:49.990 So like you said, it wasn't just a pony rod, it really was therapeutic as well 00:04:49.990 --> 00:04:53.650 as therapy with those therapists, so. 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:54.400 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 00:04:54.400 --> 00:04:58.570 But I suspect I'm, I'm, I'm the journalist in me wants to dig now. 00:04:59.140 --> 00:04:59.410 Okay. 00:04:59.415 --> 00:05:02.520 There were, there are lots of people who 20 years ago were volunteering 00:05:02.580 --> 00:05:07.110 at therapeutic riding places and who had family, you know, involvement 00:05:07.110 --> 00:05:12.900 with horses and were curious, but not everybody went the extra mile like Molly 00:05:12.900 --> 00:05:16.860 did to like create an organization and look for funding and so on and so on. 00:05:17.130 --> 00:05:17.910 Why? 00:05:19.155 --> 00:05:21.645 Why did she, why was she the person that did that? 00:05:22.155 --> 00:05:22.485 What 00:05:22.485 --> 00:05:22.486 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:05:22.485 --> 00:05:27.465 I think she's just a, she's just one of those people in the sense that she has a 00:05:27.465 --> 00:05:32.505 brilliant mind and she is an innovator. 00:05:33.115 --> 00:05:36.445 She has that intuition piece. 00:05:36.445 --> 00:05:36.505 Rupert Isaacson: Hmm. 00:05:36.985 --> 00:05:36.986 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:05:36.985 --> 00:05:38.125 Brilliant mind. 00:05:38.125 --> 00:05:39.445 She loves physics. 00:05:39.505 --> 00:05:42.745 I can't even fathom physics. 00:05:43.025 --> 00:05:44.130 I mean, I love it in 00:05:44.130 --> 00:05:44.370 Rupert Isaacson: theory. 00:05:45.030 --> 00:05:45.810 I admire it. 00:05:45.915 --> 00:05:47.095 But yes, I hear 00:05:47.955 --> 00:05:47.956 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:05:47.955 --> 00:05:54.165 yeah, so yeah, I mean, she's just kind of ahead of her time and she wants to 00:05:54.165 --> 00:05:56.925 know, she, she's got those questions. 00:05:57.285 --> 00:06:01.475 Rupert Isaacson: So she reached out and found people to support this endeavor. 00:06:01.935 --> 00:06:03.585 Was that all initially in Texas? 00:06:03.695 --> 00:06:06.095 And who did she talk to and, and why do you think. 00:06:07.535 --> 00:06:12.065 She, why was it that she could persuade them to go, yeah, look, we'll give 00:06:12.065 --> 00:06:13.235 you some money to figure this out. 00:06:13.835 --> 00:06:13.836 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:06:13.835 --> 00:06:16.445 I think she contacted a variety of people. 00:06:16.445 --> 00:06:19.505 Casey Henry was the first executive director. 00:06:19.955 --> 00:06:25.935 She was the executive director of Fieldstone Farm before she was of HHRF. 00:06:26.425 --> 00:06:32.515 So she had grown a small program into, this is probably one of the top 00:06:33.115 --> 00:06:34.975 three in the United States right now. 00:06:35.335 --> 00:06:40.765 And she got Pat Mullens, who was in Markel Insurance. 00:06:40.765 --> 00:06:45.135 She got some physical therapist as well as some psychologists. 00:06:45.135 --> 00:06:52.575 She got a variety of people who were immersed into EAS at that time 00:06:52.995 --> 00:06:58.695 that were also influential in, in that area, but also realize that. 00:06:59.490 --> 00:07:01.020 They were movers and shakers. 00:07:01.020 --> 00:07:06.780 They were gonna, if they believed in what Molly was gonna propose or, and 00:07:07.080 --> 00:07:12.120 they, they, if they saw that dream, they were gonna make it happen and they did. 00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:20.250 And so having that variety of people also set the organization up the right way. 00:07:20.710 --> 00:07:20.890 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:07:21.230 --> 00:07:22.925 So, so what was, go ahead. 00:07:22.925 --> 00:07:23.255 Sorry. 00:07:23.260 --> 00:07:24.005 I don't want to, I was 00:07:24.005 --> 00:07:24.006 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:07:24.005 --> 00:07:31.145 about to say, so like, for example, we give out research funds for research 00:07:31.145 --> 00:07:32.945 about how horses are helping humans. 00:07:32.975 --> 00:07:40.505 And it was, we have a scientific advisory council, so our kind of foundation was 00:07:40.505 --> 00:07:42.905 also patterned after Michael j Fox's. 00:07:44.180 --> 00:07:45.680 Parkinson's Foundation. 00:07:46.235 --> 00:07:50.810 'cause they looked around and said, who's doing this type of research and what 00:07:50.810 --> 00:07:52.580 are some models that we could look at? 00:07:52.850 --> 00:07:55.400 So that was one of the examples. 00:07:55.430 --> 00:08:01.820 And so when we make a call for our grant, we have advisors who are specialists 00:08:01.820 --> 00:08:06.650 in certain areas, but they all do research and they evaluate those grant 00:08:06.650 --> 00:08:11.240 applications and they're evaluated and then they move up the tiers. 00:08:11.590 --> 00:08:15.550 Now we've changed the process, or I, I should say, tweaked it a bit. 00:08:15.650 --> 00:08:20.430 In the past couple of years, it used to come that paper applications came to the 00:08:20.430 --> 00:08:25.530 board and they looked at 'em and made a, had a discussion and made a decision. 00:08:25.830 --> 00:08:28.890 But now we actually have the applicants. 00:08:29.340 --> 00:08:35.310 This past year do a PowerPoint presentation, a walkthrough video of 00:08:35.310 --> 00:08:40.020 the facility that they'll be using for their research so we can make 00:08:40.020 --> 00:08:42.180 sure that it's appropriate and safe, 00:08:42.180 --> 00:08:42.810 Rupert Isaacson: very wise. 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:43.121 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:50.020 And then once those two, so the board has chance to watch those presentation 00:08:50.020 --> 00:08:54.850 and videos, and then we schedule times with them where we actually 00:08:54.850 --> 00:08:56.860 have a question, a q and a session. 00:08:57.690 --> 00:08:57.720 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:08:57.720 --> 00:08:58.890 It's Shark Tank basically. 00:08:59.670 --> 00:08:59.671 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:08:59.670 --> 00:09:01.410 Yes, exactly. 00:09:01.675 --> 00:09:03.735 And that's what, but you know, but that's, but so 00:09:03.735 --> 00:09:05.880 Rupert Isaacson: it's so Wise Pebbles, because in the early days 00:09:05.880 --> 00:09:11.760 with Horse Boy when we were naive we, we still probably are naive, but 00:09:11.940 --> 00:09:13.500 you know, we're just getting less. 00:09:13.500 --> 00:09:20.250 So now, we trained like loads of people and we assumed that they had the same 00:09:20.250 --> 00:09:22.050 horse knowledge, more or less that we did. 00:09:22.110 --> 00:09:25.230 We assumed that their horse care was pretty good. 00:09:25.230 --> 00:09:25.740 We assumed. 00:09:25.740 --> 00:09:32.190 We assumed and we got egg on our face a couple of times and then we're like, 00:09:32.280 --> 00:09:34.770 oh, we need an evaluation process. 00:09:35.460 --> 00:09:39.180 And it's really interesting, as soon as we started asking people to show 00:09:39.180 --> 00:09:42.900 on video the environment they're working in, their horses, how they 00:09:42.900 --> 00:09:44.250 keep their horses, all of that. 00:09:44.730 --> 00:09:46.380 Not to mention the therapy work. 00:09:46.770 --> 00:09:47.580 So interesting. 00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:51.300 You know, you'd get a certain number would just like disappear right there. 00:09:51.750 --> 00:09:51.840 Mm-hmm. 00:09:52.130 --> 00:09:55.010 And then you realize, oh yeah, the really good people don't mind. 00:09:55.430 --> 00:09:58.790 The really good people actually see the value of jumping through 00:09:58.790 --> 00:10:02.420 those hoops because they want to ensure the quality as well. 00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:03.410 Right. 00:10:03.995 --> 00:10:05.195 That's what we should do. 00:10:05.575 --> 00:10:08.995 And now it's, it's interesting when we are giving trainings and we say, well, 00:10:09.655 --> 00:10:12.535 you can't be a practitioner until you go through this evaluation process. 00:10:12.685 --> 00:10:13.375 It's very interesting. 00:10:13.375 --> 00:10:16.165 Sometimes when some people react negatively to that, you're like, 00:10:16.165 --> 00:10:20.125 well, then probably you're not right for this job because Right. 00:10:20.395 --> 00:10:24.775 You know, there's a lot of details to, you know, to be aware of. 00:10:25.165 --> 00:10:28.045 So I'm, I'm very glad that you, you did that. 00:10:28.145 --> 00:10:28.146 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:10:28.145 --> 00:10:30.725 I wanna say something about, yeah, what you said just now about 00:10:30.725 --> 00:10:32.225 Shark Tank, which is really funny. 00:10:32.735 --> 00:10:39.405 So when I, I first started with HHRF in 2020 and I was part-time because I 00:10:39.405 --> 00:10:41.385 was working on my dissertation myself. 00:10:41.715 --> 00:10:48.045 And so then the job has evolved to now where I'm actually a full-time employee. 00:10:48.045 --> 00:10:53.085 But when I tried to, I thought giving away money was gonna be easy, 00:10:53.145 --> 00:10:54.705 like the easiest part of my job. 00:10:54.705 --> 00:10:57.255 Like, you get a grant, you get a grant, you get a grant, like that 00:10:57.255 --> 00:10:58.695 could be Oprah kind of thing. 00:10:59.325 --> 00:10:59.415 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 00:10:59.415 --> 00:11:00.555 And And how lovely would that feel? 00:11:00.705 --> 00:11:00.855 Yeah, 00:11:01.035 --> 00:11:01.036 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:11:01.035 --> 00:11:01.725 exactly. 00:11:01.815 --> 00:11:08.085 But it has been the hardest part of my job, and part of it is like the first 00:11:08.085 --> 00:11:13.455 year that we had grant applications, we had two come to the board and the 00:11:13.455 --> 00:11:18.135 Scientific advisory council said, these are the two highest rating ones, but 00:11:18.705 --> 00:11:20.745 we don't feel great about either one. 00:11:20.805 --> 00:11:22.635 So I was like, ah. 00:11:23.055 --> 00:11:25.455 So I did give a grant that year. 00:11:25.515 --> 00:11:30.405 The next year we had one, I called 'em up and said, Hey, you, you're the winner. 00:11:30.705 --> 00:11:33.900 And they didn't have the participants, so Okay. 00:11:33.945 --> 00:11:40.335 I said, give me some time, let's help you get some participants couldn't get enough. 00:11:40.635 --> 00:11:40.995 Wow. 00:11:40.995 --> 00:11:41.295 When you 00:11:41.295 --> 00:11:44.835 Rupert Isaacson: actually have to push a boulder uphill to give people money. 00:11:45.165 --> 00:11:45.825 That's bizarre. 00:11:45.830 --> 00:11:46.575 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:11:46.575 --> 00:11:46.576 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:11:46.575 --> 00:11:48.045 So that one was out. 00:11:48.345 --> 00:11:54.255 So the next time I was like, I think it was something else happened and 00:11:54.255 --> 00:11:56.025 I was like, y'all are killing me. 00:11:56.025 --> 00:11:57.585 I cannot give away money. 00:11:57.585 --> 00:12:01.365 And that's what our purpose is, is to fund research. 00:12:01.755 --> 00:12:05.745 So our board president said, well, why don't we do something really quick 00:12:05.745 --> 00:12:07.995 and fast and do it like Shark Tank? 00:12:08.115 --> 00:12:09.255 And I was like, what? 00:12:10.005 --> 00:12:11.775 I'm like, we can do Shark Tank. 00:12:11.835 --> 00:12:13.275 And he's like, sure we can. 00:12:13.545 --> 00:12:16.365 And we'll, we'll have him like in a room and compete. 00:12:16.695 --> 00:12:17.115 And I'm like. 00:12:17.655 --> 00:12:18.105 Okay. 00:12:18.195 --> 00:12:21.195 Liking this concept, but let's take it back a notch. 00:12:21.465 --> 00:12:26.985 So what we did was, like I said, the first time was have 'em, I gave them 00:12:26.985 --> 00:12:31.875 a list of questions and said, okay, want you to present on this and we'll 00:12:31.875 --> 00:12:35.955 have a q and a session afterwards and gave them 20 minutes each. 00:12:36.195 --> 00:12:42.165 We found out that became a little long, so we t tweaked it this year 00:12:42.165 --> 00:12:46.335 and said, yeah, send in these videos and answer these questions and 00:12:46.335 --> 00:12:47.985 then we'll do a q and a with you. 00:12:48.345 --> 00:12:53.685 So it all worked out and it honestly, I mean it's really showed us who's 00:12:53.685 --> 00:12:57.165 really kind of passionate about it and who really understands 00:12:57.165 --> 00:12:59.115 what they're actually gonna do. 00:12:59.145 --> 00:13:05.235 'cause there was one at one point in time that we were like, it wasn't, I 00:13:05.235 --> 00:13:08.925 didn't feel confident that they were confident in what they were going to do. 00:13:08.930 --> 00:13:09.110 Mm-hmm. 00:13:10.830 --> 00:13:11.220 Rupert Isaacson: Mm. 00:13:11.550 --> 00:13:11.551 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:13:11.550 --> 00:13:14.340 So it really is interesting having a main person. 00:13:14.340 --> 00:13:14.400 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:13:14.490 --> 00:13:18.330 You know, I, I'm sure you do it this way too, like we, we don't do our 00:13:18.330 --> 00:13:23.490 evaluation process like real shark tank in that it's not like impress 00:13:23.490 --> 00:13:25.290 us or we'll tell you to f off. 00:13:25.800 --> 00:13:26.070 Yeah. 00:13:26.280 --> 00:13:32.160 It's more that if there's obvious red flags, well then hey, but we've obviously 00:13:32.160 --> 00:13:36.570 put, you know, checks and balances into place to try to be more aware of 00:13:36.570 --> 00:13:38.460 that, like before we get to that point. 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:47.430 But what we do with our evaluations is if we feel that somebody is really got their 00:13:47.430 --> 00:13:52.480 heart in the right place, but lacking knowledge then we'll say, look, we can't 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:56.710 pass your evaluation now, but we will. 00:13:56.770 --> 00:13:58.090 We like what you're doing. 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:01.630 We know that you're coming from a good place here. 00:14:02.350 --> 00:14:05.800 If you will work with us to show you how to do it right. 00:14:06.220 --> 00:14:09.730 And even if it takes you two, three years, are you down with that? 00:14:10.630 --> 00:14:13.510 And then we can get you through your evaluation. 00:14:13.510 --> 00:14:16.240 And it's interesting, you know, the, the really good, the really committed 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:17.590 people are like, yes, of course. 00:14:17.620 --> 00:14:24.790 Thank you for the mentorship and the people who don't feel that way deselect. 00:14:25.130 --> 00:14:25.340 Yeah. 00:14:25.340 --> 00:14:28.700 When, when you are doing this, is, is that sort of how you do it? 00:14:28.700 --> 00:14:34.340 Will you work with people to, to a certain degree, get them to where, or given 00:14:34.340 --> 00:14:38.215 that you're giving away money, is it trickier you, you kind of need them Yeah. 00:14:38.215 --> 00:14:39.380 To arrive a bit more ready? 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:39.981 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:40.550 Yeah. 00:14:40.760 --> 00:14:45.350 Because we're very strong about, you know, our integrity 00:14:45.350 --> 00:14:46.940 and, and keeping it straight. 00:14:46.940 --> 00:14:51.620 That if, like I said, if they come to the, to the table and they don't have 00:14:51.620 --> 00:14:56.390 enough information or don't have, if the Scientific Advisory Council doesn't 00:14:56.390 --> 00:14:58.475 give them a stamp, then no, we can't. 00:14:59.160 --> 00:15:01.410 But like sometimes for example, there's, 00:15:02.100 --> 00:15:03.935 Rupert Isaacson: but can you say to them, you know, here's what you need to do Yes. 00:15:03.940 --> 00:15:07.890 To be worthy, you know, do these things and then come back to us. 00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:07.981 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:11.600 Yeah, we do give 'em back their or give them some feedback from the 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:15.950 scientific advisors so they do get some feedback no matter who they are. 00:15:16.190 --> 00:15:16.310 Mm-hmm. 00:15:16.370 --> 00:15:17.480 In the process. 00:15:17.690 --> 00:15:18.560 So that helps. 00:15:18.770 --> 00:15:23.870 And it's difficult too, I will say, because, you know, we get, you know, 00:15:24.390 --> 00:15:27.730 almost 30 applications all over the world. 00:15:27.970 --> 00:15:28.810 Let me back up. 00:15:28.870 --> 00:15:31.900 'cause we are international and we have fun internationally. 00:15:32.230 --> 00:15:37.050 Germany, France Canada, several times as well as America. 00:15:37.050 --> 00:15:41.760 So we get applications all over the world, but I can only give out one. 00:15:42.225 --> 00:15:46.575 So it, it makes it difficult, especially when, you know, people 00:15:46.785 --> 00:15:51.315 who apply and you have to send 'em a letter or call 'em and say, I'm 00:15:51.315 --> 00:15:55.395 sorry, you're just not that top one. 00:15:55.755 --> 00:15:58.515 You know, and it's all confidential. 00:15:58.515 --> 00:16:00.255 I can't, you know, right. 00:16:00.255 --> 00:16:06.255 Say, well, this or that, but I will say in this gra last grant cycle 00:16:06.555 --> 00:16:08.925 that we had three really good ones. 00:16:08.955 --> 00:16:15.045 And I let the other two know that if something happens to the, the person who's 00:16:15.045 --> 00:16:22.605 supposed to accept, if something happens, I might be, we might be coming back to 00:16:22.665 --> 00:16:25.665 see if, if we could work something out or. 00:16:26.385 --> 00:16:26.985 Perhaps they should 00:16:27.350 --> 00:16:29.310 Rupert Isaacson: resub or resubmit resub or 00:16:29.310 --> 00:16:29.311 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:16:29.310 --> 00:16:33.055 something in that area just because they were that good or 00:16:33.055 --> 00:16:36.445 close to being the winning grant. 00:16:36.755 --> 00:16:39.515 So that, you know, that does happen. 00:16:40.565 --> 00:16:40.895 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:16:40.895 --> 00:16:45.575 So what I'd love to do is I want to talk to you about equine welfare, 00:16:46.205 --> 00:16:46.206 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:16:46.205 --> 00:16:46.565 okay? 00:16:47.035 --> 00:16:48.925 Rupert Isaacson: 'Cause you know, obviously in horse boy, this is 00:16:48.925 --> 00:16:52.975 a huge deal for us and I'd like to also talk to you about some 00:16:52.975 --> 00:16:55.945 of your best projects to date. 00:16:56.515 --> 00:16:56.575 Okay? 00:16:56.575 --> 00:16:59.125 But before that, I know you don't want me to ask you about 00:16:59.125 --> 00:17:00.355 this, but I'm gonna do it anyway. 00:17:00.655 --> 00:17:03.535 I want to know how you got involved in this in the first place. 00:17:03.535 --> 00:17:05.605 I want to talk a little bit about Pebbles. 00:17:05.605 --> 00:17:07.765 Why and why do you call pebbles anyway? 00:17:09.510 --> 00:17:09.511 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:17:09.510 --> 00:17:12.985 Well, you have to watch the Flintstones to be able to know the name. 00:17:13.265 --> 00:17:17.625 But basically I was born and my mom was gonna not name 00:17:17.625 --> 00:17:19.605 me, who her name was Barbara. 00:17:19.995 --> 00:17:21.225 I was gonna be Barbara. 00:17:21.525 --> 00:17:26.475 And my brother was very disappointed in the fact that I was a girl. 00:17:26.805 --> 00:17:31.635 And he said I should be able to name 'em, so I'm gonna, oh, she, 00:17:31.725 --> 00:17:33.705 she was gonna na name me Babs. 00:17:33.735 --> 00:17:36.975 And he was like, well, I wanna call her Bam, bam. 00:17:37.365 --> 00:17:43.125 And 'cause he was a big Flint Flintstone fan, so they were like, thank goodness 00:17:43.125 --> 00:17:46.755 my older sisters were like, no, she's a girl, you need to call her something else. 00:17:46.755 --> 00:17:47.985 And he said, well, pebbles. 00:17:47.985 --> 00:17:48.045 So 00:17:48.375 --> 00:17:49.875 Rupert Isaacson: you could have gone through your whole life with 00:17:49.875 --> 00:17:51.435 a bone through your hair though. 00:17:51.435 --> 00:17:52.545 I mean, it might've been really cool. 00:17:53.175 --> 00:17:53.176 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:17:53.175 --> 00:17:56.925 And honestly, bam, bam fits me better 'cause I've been blonde. 00:17:56.925 --> 00:17:57.015 That 00:17:57.015 --> 00:17:58.095 Rupert Isaacson: such a cool, yeah, 00:17:58.185 --> 00:17:58.186 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:17:58.185 --> 00:17:58.335 I know. 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:01.635 And I, I'm stronger than the average woman. 00:18:02.025 --> 00:18:06.675 So, yeah, but I, yeah, was named Bam, bam, I mean, pebbles. 00:18:07.075 --> 00:18:09.835 And so here's a little funny trivia for you. 00:18:09.835 --> 00:18:13.195 I have three diplomas and three different names. 00:18:15.655 --> 00:18:23.165 So my undergraduate is Barbara Turbeville, and my master's degree was with my 00:18:23.165 --> 00:18:25.325 married name, which was Barbara Heidrick. 00:18:25.745 --> 00:18:28.565 And then I got rid of him and his name. 00:18:28.565 --> 00:18:32.015 I legally changed it and became Dr. 00:18:32.015 --> 00:18:32.930 Pebbles Turbeville. 00:18:32.930 --> 00:18:32.940 I 00:18:33.155 --> 00:18:33.755 Rupert Isaacson: love that. 00:18:33.845 --> 00:18:35.105 What are you a doctor in Pebbles? 00:18:35.105 --> 00:18:35.675 What are you Dr. 00:18:35.675 --> 00:18:36.215 Pebbles of? 00:18:36.815 --> 00:18:36.816 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:18:36.815 --> 00:18:40.115 I'm actually in sports management with an emphasis in leadership. 00:18:40.115 --> 00:18:40.145 Okay. 00:18:40.735 --> 00:18:44.495 Mainly because when I started down this road the United States Sports 00:18:44.495 --> 00:18:50.425 Academy was the only university, higher ed that was online completely. 00:18:50.815 --> 00:18:52.585 And that was eons ago. 00:18:52.585 --> 00:18:53.755 Now everybody is. 00:18:53.770 --> 00:18:53.860 Right. 00:18:54.130 --> 00:19:00.380 But so I kind of went that sports management route just because, and I'm 00:19:00.380 --> 00:19:03.200 not a sports fan, which is really funny. 00:19:04.580 --> 00:19:07.130 I could care less about professional or 00:19:07.430 --> 00:19:08.270 Rupert Isaacson: like, like an academic. 00:19:08.270 --> 00:19:08.390 Yeah, 00:19:09.020 --> 00:19:09.021 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:19:09.020 --> 00:19:09.350 I know. 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:15.470 I, but because I'm really more interested in the recreational aspects, 00:19:15.470 --> 00:19:17.450 not the right competition piece. 00:19:17.450 --> 00:19:17.660 The, that, 00:19:17.665 --> 00:19:20.630 Rupert Isaacson: the, the, the brain aspect in a, in a weird way. 00:19:20.630 --> 00:19:20.840 Yeah, 00:19:20.870 --> 00:19:20.871 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:19:20.870 --> 00:19:21.980 yeah, yeah. 00:19:22.030 --> 00:19:27.850 You know, and part of that, but like, I'm more recreational more than sports. 00:19:27.850 --> 00:19:29.745 I should say recreational rather 00:19:29.865 --> 00:19:30.545 Rupert Isaacson: than competitive. 00:19:31.015 --> 00:19:31.016 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:19:31.015 --> 00:19:31.505 Correct. 00:19:32.050 --> 00:19:33.900 And it's sort of like, you know, Dr. 00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:38.610 Helen Sharp I just reached out with her to help me 'cause I had this concept, 00:19:39.030 --> 00:19:40.035 'cause I used to keep quick pause. 00:19:40.950 --> 00:19:41.190 Okay, 00:19:41.370 --> 00:19:41.650 Rupert Isaacson: Dr. 00:19:41.650 --> 00:19:42.210 Helen Sharp. 00:19:42.210 --> 00:19:44.940 I don't think we have a link down below, but scroll back 00:19:44.940 --> 00:19:46.800 lads through our interviews. 00:19:47.040 --> 00:19:48.010 We did a thing with Dr. 00:19:48.010 --> 00:19:48.570 Helen Sharp. 00:19:48.570 --> 00:19:49.620 She's rad. 00:19:49.800 --> 00:19:50.550 You need to know Dr. 00:19:50.550 --> 00:19:51.030 Helen Sharp. 00:19:51.060 --> 00:19:51.690 Okay, go on. 00:19:51.930 --> 00:19:52.290 Sorry. 00:19:52.350 --> 00:19:52.351 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:19:52.350 --> 00:19:52.830 Yes. 00:19:52.980 --> 00:19:53.530 Yeah, yeah. 00:19:53.730 --> 00:19:54.210 Good point. 00:19:54.780 --> 00:19:55.410 A good shout out. 00:19:55.800 --> 00:19:59.730 So I used to teach sports, going back to where I was. 00:19:59.820 --> 00:20:03.690 I used to teach sports management equine studies, e 00:20:03.740 --> 00:20:05.540 therapeutic horsemanship classes. 00:20:06.080 --> 00:20:11.600 And I just had this concept about how, I'm gonna sidebar for a second here, like 00:20:11.600 --> 00:20:14.810 you did, about how horses help humans. 00:20:15.140 --> 00:20:20.090 And I used to teach a wellness class, and we used to talk about wellness 00:20:20.090 --> 00:20:22.940 and the eight dimensions of wellness. 00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:27.470 And some of those dimensions change depending on who or who 00:20:27.470 --> 00:20:29.000 wrote it and who's doing what. 00:20:29.030 --> 00:20:29.750 But, well, Aren, you know. 00:20:30.845 --> 00:20:32.225 This is what this is. 00:20:32.755 --> 00:20:34.705 This is what really horses do. 00:20:35.035 --> 00:20:37.975 So if you look at, one is emotional wellness. 00:20:37.975 --> 00:20:38.005 Okay? 00:20:38.525 --> 00:20:44.105 They help with anxiety, depression, or self-esteem, physical wellness, you know, 00:20:44.105 --> 00:20:49.805 improving balance, coordination, stronger muscles, social wellness, improving social 00:20:49.805 --> 00:20:56.195 skills, empathy, teamwork, spiritual wellness, being mindful presence, 00:20:56.495 --> 00:20:59.125 you know, environmental wellness. 00:20:59.155 --> 00:21:03.235 We just talked about that whole aspect of nature being around land. 00:21:03.860 --> 00:21:05.480 Occupational wellness. 00:21:05.530 --> 00:21:09.790 And that can be from job skills, career development, and nutritional 00:21:09.790 --> 00:21:13.930 wellness, which is a little bit of a stretch, but there are some studies. 00:21:14.080 --> 00:21:15.910 All this is, again, facts. 00:21:15.910 --> 00:21:16.000 It's 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:16.990 Rupert Isaacson: good for us to eat horses. 00:21:16.990 --> 00:21:17.710 Sorry, I'm just kidding. 00:21:17.830 --> 00:21:17.890 No, 00:21:19.600 --> 00:21:19.601 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:21:19.600 --> 00:21:19.840 no. 00:21:20.260 --> 00:21:23.830 Nutritional wellness as far as like improved body image, there's 00:21:23.890 --> 00:21:28.630 a lot of like support for recovery for people with eating disorders. 00:21:28.750 --> 00:21:28.870 Mm-hmm. 00:21:29.110 --> 00:21:33.340 But healthier lifestyles as far as like being able to eat, you know, 00:21:33.340 --> 00:21:38.880 nutritionally better agriculture education just movement supports nutrition. 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:43.500 So anyway, I was struggling with this article and I kind of like turned over 00:21:43.620 --> 00:21:47.580 what I had to Helen and then she did this beautiful job of writing it up. 00:21:47.850 --> 00:21:52.050 But it is true, like horses help us in all those different dimensions. 00:21:52.290 --> 00:21:52.470 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:21:52.470 --> 00:21:52.775 They get from us. 00:21:55.385 --> 00:21:55.675 Yeah. 00:21:56.065 --> 00:21:56.066 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:21:56.065 --> 00:21:56.675 That it, 00:21:57.090 --> 00:22:01.500 Rupert Isaacson: so you've become a PhD in non-competitive sport management? 00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:01.981 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:06.265 Actually it's, it's a EDD it's a, it's a doctorate of education. 00:22:06.565 --> 00:22:06.865 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:22:06.915 --> 00:22:07.185 Yeah. 00:22:07.635 --> 00:22:10.305 How do you end up with the horses in Humans Research Foundation? 00:22:11.625 --> 00:22:11.626 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:22:11.625 --> 00:22:14.265 Okay, so I taught at St. 00:22:14.265 --> 00:22:17.995 Andrew Andrew's University for almost two years in Scotland. 00:22:18.045 --> 00:22:19.880 It was in Laurinburg, North Carolina. 00:22:20.090 --> 00:22:20.180 Okay. 00:22:20.210 --> 00:22:23.270 But it was in Scotland County, so it was very much Ah, 00:22:23.540 --> 00:22:23.780 Rupert Isaacson: okay. 00:22:23.870 --> 00:22:23.871 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:22:23.870 --> 00:22:25.190 A sister city. 00:22:25.610 --> 00:22:29.300 And we had a strong equestrian program there and that 00:22:29.540 --> 00:22:29.570 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:22:29.570 --> 00:22:29.990 We actually 00:22:29.990 --> 00:22:29.991 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:22:29.990 --> 00:22:33.050 had a therapeutic horsemanship degree for your degree. 00:22:33.050 --> 00:22:33.140 Okay. 00:22:33.445 --> 00:22:33.665 Wow. 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:34.605 And so that was ahead of its 00:22:34.605 --> 00:22:34.685 Rupert Isaacson: time. 00:22:34.950 --> 00:22:35.070 Yeah. 00:22:35.340 --> 00:22:35.341 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:22:35.340 --> 00:22:36.570 Again, it was, yeah. 00:22:36.910 --> 00:22:43.010 And I taught there and kind of, departed just because of administration. 00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:46.760 It was just changing and I was not happy. 00:22:47.030 --> 00:22:51.170 And so 2020 was like that year of evaluation where you wanna be in 00:22:51.170 --> 00:22:53.030 life with the pandemic going on. 00:22:53.030 --> 00:22:57.410 So I was like, nah, I'm gonna take a sabbatical from life and finish up my 00:22:57.410 --> 00:23:01.640 dissertation 'cause I don't have time to do it because I was teaching multiple 00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:04.100 classes and running a program, et cetera. 00:23:04.130 --> 00:23:09.300 So, I left and ironically the college or university has closed 00:23:09.300 --> 00:23:13.510 now it's one of those liberal arts college that has fallen. 00:23:13.900 --> 00:23:17.860 But, so that's when I was on the development committee. 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:23.770 HHRF and they didn't have an executive director, so I was like, 00:23:23.770 --> 00:23:27.820 Hey, I can do it part-time while I'm working on my dissertation. 00:23:28.090 --> 00:23:31.930 I haven't like, worked as a executive director in a long time. 00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:36.450 But we could do it part-time and do it as an intermediate you know, 00:23:36.450 --> 00:23:40.020 just to see if this is something that would be good for both of us. 00:23:40.320 --> 00:23:42.420 And three months in, we were sold. 00:23:42.690 --> 00:23:46.830 So I, I was like a kid in the candy store because I felt like there 00:23:46.830 --> 00:23:51.120 were so many things we needed to fix and to grow the organizations. 00:23:51.560 --> 00:23:57.200 And part of it was we were giving out a grant like once a year for 00:23:57.200 --> 00:23:59.030 research and then that was it. 00:23:59.030 --> 00:24:02.630 So you'd raise money, give out a grant, and then you just kind of twiddle your 00:24:02.630 --> 00:24:07.220 thumb waiting for the results to come in because that didn't happen overnight. 00:24:07.310 --> 00:24:08.990 Usually takes a year or two. 00:24:09.470 --> 00:24:09.860 So. 00:24:10.245 --> 00:24:13.455 We were like, we need to do something with education, because 00:24:13.455 --> 00:24:15.465 people don't understand research. 00:24:15.735 --> 00:24:20.305 They don't there's a disconnect between researcher's language 00:24:20.365 --> 00:24:22.315 versus a practitioner's language. 00:24:22.705 --> 00:24:26.455 The practitioner doesn't embrace it, doesn't understand it. 00:24:26.695 --> 00:24:30.655 And also it changes all the time because it, you know, 00:24:30.655 --> 00:24:32.455 research builds upon each other. 00:24:32.855 --> 00:24:33.605 It changes. 00:24:33.665 --> 00:24:39.485 So yeah, that's how we started with the education program and started 00:24:39.485 --> 00:24:40.865 doing a webinar once a month. 00:24:41.555 --> 00:24:43.715 That became really great. 00:24:43.865 --> 00:24:45.665 Everybody was receptive. 00:24:45.755 --> 00:24:51.545 It was changing between educational topics to equine wellbeing topics. 00:24:51.875 --> 00:24:56.315 And then all of a sudden we got the good, everybody wanted to do two. 00:24:56.675 --> 00:24:57.935 So we do two a month. 00:24:57.965 --> 00:24:58.685 These are free. 00:24:58.685 --> 00:24:58.745 Okay. 00:24:59.495 --> 00:25:05.315 We offer 'em again once we have 'em, we record 'em, put 'em on YouTube channel. 00:25:05.315 --> 00:25:06.275 They're evergreen. 00:25:06.875 --> 00:25:10.475 We have over a thousand subscribers now. 00:25:10.945 --> 00:25:16.135 The views on 'em range all over the place from a couple hundred 00:25:16.135 --> 00:25:19.915 to a couple thousand, depending on the topic and the speaker. 00:25:24.055 --> 00:25:24.535 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:25:24.655 --> 00:25:26.395 So you get involved. 00:25:26.755 --> 00:25:26.845 Yes. 00:25:27.055 --> 00:25:33.835 You start the interesting process of giving out money for studies, you. 00:25:35.560 --> 00:25:37.000 Open up the education side. 00:25:37.750 --> 00:25:40.900 Give me your, how many years you, you're in now? 00:25:40.900 --> 00:25:41.650 Five years. 00:25:41.710 --> 00:25:41.920 Five years? 00:25:41.970 --> 00:25:42.670 Almost six. 00:25:43.330 --> 00:25:43.750 Mm-hmm. 00:25:43.805 --> 00:25:49.385 Give me your highlights of the grants that you've given out. 00:25:50.105 --> 00:25:52.175 I mean, honestly, that's probably each year. 00:25:52.745 --> 00:25:57.875 And talk to me about what studies have you funded in that time and 00:25:57.935 --> 00:25:59.705 why are you excited about them? 00:26:01.025 --> 00:26:01.026 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:26:01.025 --> 00:26:01.505 Wow. 00:26:02.015 --> 00:26:02.915 Well, let me back up. 00:26:03.155 --> 00:26:09.485 And because of the fact that I came on during the pandemic, that was 00:26:09.485 --> 00:26:16.235 also a tough, tough time because we had a research study that was going 00:26:16.235 --> 00:26:22.055 on, but they had to hit the pause button because of COVID and having 00:26:22.055 --> 00:26:24.125 to be, to be able to wait for it. 00:26:24.545 --> 00:26:30.515 So that was part of and that actually was with university of Prince. 00:26:31.010 --> 00:26:33.780 Edward Island with Dr. 00:26:33.780 --> 00:26:34.650 Lori McDuff. 00:26:35.070 --> 00:26:40.730 And that was a veteran study that, the great part about that study was 00:26:40.970 --> 00:26:44.720 not only were they looking at the veterans, but they were also because 00:26:45.290 --> 00:26:47.780 Lori McDuffy is actually a veterinarian. 00:26:48.360 --> 00:26:51.040 But her cohort Dr. 00:26:51.040 --> 00:26:55.810 William Mopar was actually the human side. 00:26:55.810 --> 00:26:55.840 Okay. 00:26:56.080 --> 00:27:00.370 So he was looking at the changes with the, the veterans and she was looking 00:27:00.370 --> 00:27:01.840 at the changes with the horses. 00:27:01.840 --> 00:27:01.870 Okay. 00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:06.370 So I think that was one of our first ones that really looked at both. 00:27:07.110 --> 00:27:10.200 And then from there, like I said, 00:27:13.140 --> 00:27:15.420 from the beginning, it was hard giving out money. 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:17.310 So there was a bit of a gap, right? 00:27:17.310 --> 00:27:21.210 Because once we went through 2020 and we then we raised some, 00:27:21.300 --> 00:27:22.830 had some money to give away. 00:27:23.610 --> 00:27:25.770 We couldn't, we didn't have the studies. 00:27:25.770 --> 00:27:28.980 They didn't have the participants, so it took a while. 00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:36.480 So we did our first innovative grant which was given to Baylor University where Dr. 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:43.310 Beth Lanning used this new equipment functional near infrared, spectro, 00:27:43.850 --> 00:27:45.710 I can't say the word spectro. 00:27:48.005 --> 00:27:48.225 Rupert Isaacson: Try 00:27:48.350 --> 00:27:48.351 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:27:48.350 --> 00:27:50.960 Kobi spectro. 00:27:51.020 --> 00:27:52.300 T so spec 00:27:52.810 --> 00:27:53.170 Rupert Isaacson: T, 00:27:53.470 --> 00:27:53.471 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:27:53.470 --> 00:27:56.080 or No, it's not T, it's SC Scope. 00:27:56.500 --> 00:27:57.040 Scope. 00:27:57.600 --> 00:27:58.380 So like trauma 00:27:58.380 --> 00:27:58.860 Rupert Isaacson: scope? 00:27:59.220 --> 00:27:59.221 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:27:59.220 --> 00:27:59.700 Yes. 00:27:59.820 --> 00:28:02.430 It's actually the, I like the abbreviation. 00:28:02.430 --> 00:28:05.640 Let's just call it the F-F-N-I-S. 00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:06.400 Rupert Isaacson: FFNI. 00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:06.840 What, sorry. 00:28:07.775 --> 00:28:07.776 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:28:07.775 --> 00:28:12.185 F-N-I-S-F-N-I-S. 00:28:12.515 --> 00:28:12.815 Yeah. 00:28:12.995 --> 00:28:14.075 So it's a wearable. 00:28:14.900 --> 00:28:20.330 Apparatus that looks at the brain, it scans your brain, not the sort of like an 00:28:20.330 --> 00:28:21.800 Rupert Isaacson: e EEG that you wear while riding 00:28:22.340 --> 00:28:22.341 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:28:22.340 --> 00:28:22.850 Correct. 00:28:22.940 --> 00:28:28.130 But it looks at the top layer of your brain and what changes are going on. 00:28:28.670 --> 00:28:29.120 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:28:29.930 --> 00:28:29.931 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:28:29.930 --> 00:28:31.210 And I feel really embarrassed. 00:28:31.210 --> 00:28:31.690 I can't say that. 00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:33.010 That would be 00:28:33.010 --> 00:28:37.060 Rupert Isaacson: the, that would be the, the cortex that that's on the top. 00:28:37.060 --> 00:28:37.420 Yeah, yeah. 00:28:37.630 --> 00:28:37.631 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:28:37.630 --> 00:28:37.900 Yeah. 00:28:38.590 --> 00:28:39.040 Rupert Isaacson: So, 00:28:40.870 --> 00:28:40.871 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:28:40.870 --> 00:28:43.060 so that was an innovative study. 00:28:43.490 --> 00:28:49.370 And the great part was, it was really kind of a brainstorm that kind of came 00:28:49.370 --> 00:28:51.350 out of one of the conferences that we had. 00:28:51.740 --> 00:28:55.790 So we had a conference and some of these researchers got together 00:28:55.790 --> 00:28:57.945 and they were like, oh, what if we did this and did that. 00:28:58.370 --> 00:29:00.560 And it was like interdisciplinary. 00:29:01.430 --> 00:29:05.030 All of them were like from different schools and they just chatted about it 00:29:05.030 --> 00:29:07.640 and then all of a sudden they were like. 00:29:08.555 --> 00:29:09.425 So Dr. 00:29:09.425 --> 00:29:14.625 Lanning applied for the Innovative study and actually the innovative 00:29:14.625 --> 00:29:19.995 study was $10,000, and that piece just helped them use two sites. 00:29:20.085 --> 00:29:20.595 Yeah, absolutely. 00:29:20.595 --> 00:29:21.430 Because it was travel funds. 00:29:21.710 --> 00:29:23.870 Rupert Isaacson: I, I could, I could see that from what the 00:29:23.870 --> 00:29:25.510 work that we do, horse boy. 00:29:25.930 --> 00:29:26.350 Mm-hmm. 00:29:26.555 --> 00:29:30.875 Frequently a $10,000 grant makes a difference between us being able 00:29:30.875 --> 00:29:35.795 to like, send a couple of people to a couple of places to gather some 00:29:35.795 --> 00:29:40.235 information, to crunch numbers to, you know, it, it, it's interesting, 00:29:40.235 --> 00:29:43.085 it often doesn't actually take as much money as people think it does. 00:29:43.655 --> 00:29:48.485 So I, I think these types of small grants are actually really good because what 00:29:48.485 --> 00:29:52.485 they do is they, they give you a kickoff and then, as you know, larger foundations 00:29:52.485 --> 00:29:53.745 will often give you a matching grant. 00:29:54.315 --> 00:29:54.615 You know? 00:29:54.620 --> 00:29:54.770 Mm-hmm. 00:29:54.855 --> 00:29:59.025 So if you can go and get like that innovative grant for 10 k, maybe someone's 00:29:59.025 --> 00:30:03.015 giving you a matching grant for 50 k, well then you are a fifth of the way there. 00:30:03.015 --> 00:30:03.345 Right. 00:30:03.375 --> 00:30:04.845 You know, so, yeah. 00:30:04.905 --> 00:30:04.995 And 00:30:04.995 --> 00:30:04.996 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:30:04.995 --> 00:30:08.205 actually it was the reverse for us because they already had a big grant. 00:30:08.565 --> 00:30:12.885 They needed the little innovative grant to help them with travel funds. 00:30:12.885 --> 00:30:12.915 Ah. 00:30:13.395 --> 00:30:15.195 So it helped them. 00:30:15.435 --> 00:30:19.155 But as you said, because it was an innovative grant and they were just 00:30:19.155 --> 00:30:24.385 kind of trying it out to see if it would work, then it allowed them 00:30:24.385 --> 00:30:30.015 to one of the investigators who was on that innovative study Dr. 00:30:30.015 --> 00:30:32.515 Corey Smith applied. 00:30:32.515 --> 00:30:40.555 And he's doing the same type of work, the same type of mechanism, but he's 00:30:40.555 --> 00:30:42.475 using it with children with autism. 00:30:42.475 --> 00:30:42.565 Okay. 00:30:43.105 --> 00:30:44.660 So, and it's Co 00:30:45.765 --> 00:30:45.975 Rupert Isaacson: o Gordy. 00:30:45.975 --> 00:30:46.335 Gordy Smith, 00:30:47.710 --> 00:30:47.711 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:30:47.710 --> 00:30:48.060 Corey. 00:30:49.585 --> 00:30:49.705 C? 00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:50.370 Yeah. 00:30:50.430 --> 00:30:50.940 CO Dr. 00:30:50.940 --> 00:30:51.630 RY. 00:30:51.645 --> 00:30:51.865 Is 00:30:51.865 --> 00:30:52.745 Rupert Isaacson: that a a man or a woman? 00:30:53.255 --> 00:30:53.256 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:30:53.255 --> 00:30:53.865 It's a man. 00:30:54.725 --> 00:30:55.145 Mm-hmm. 00:30:55.230 --> 00:30:55.590 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:30:55.590 --> 00:30:57.420 I'm just gonna quickly Google while you're talking. 00:30:57.420 --> 00:30:58.110 Please keep going. 00:30:58.935 --> 00:31:01.775 If you're in the equine assisted field, or if you're considering 00:31:01.775 --> 00:31:05.695 a career in the equine assisted field, you might want to consider 00:31:05.765 --> 00:31:10.035 taking one of our three neuroscience backed equine assisted programs. 00:31:10.095 --> 00:31:15.675 Horseboy method, now established for 20 years, is the original 00:31:16.270 --> 00:31:22.580 Equine assisted program specifically designed for autism, mentored by and 00:31:22.580 --> 00:31:25.250 developed in conjunction with Dr. 00:31:25.250 --> 00:31:28.130 Temple Grandin and many other neuroscientists. 00:31:28.470 --> 00:31:31.740 We work in the saddle with younger children. 00:31:32.235 --> 00:31:37.185 Helping them create oxytocin in their bodies and neuroplasticity in the brain. 00:31:37.845 --> 00:31:39.285 It works incredibly well. 00:31:39.285 --> 00:31:41.005 It's now in about 40 countries. 00:31:41.715 --> 00:31:42.465 Check it out. 00:31:43.145 --> 00:31:47.295 If you're working without horses, you might want to look at movement 00:31:47.305 --> 00:31:50.675 method, which gets a very, very similar effect, but can also be 00:31:50.675 --> 00:31:52.425 applied in schools, in homes. 00:31:52.625 --> 00:31:57.615 If you're working with families, you can give them really tangible exercises to do 00:31:57.615 --> 00:31:59.155 at home that will create neuroplasticity. 00:32:00.510 --> 00:32:01.790 when they're not with you. 00:32:02.300 --> 00:32:05.740 Finally, we have taquine equine integration. 00:32:06.100 --> 00:32:08.720 If you know anything about our programs, you know that we need a 00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.720 really high standard of horsemanship in order to create the oxytocin 00:32:12.750 --> 00:32:17.040 in the body of the person that we're working with, child or adult. 00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:20.820 So, this means we need to train a horse in collection, but this 00:32:20.840 --> 00:32:25.080 also has a really beneficial effect on the horse's well being. 00:32:25.280 --> 00:32:29.570 And it also ends your time conflict, where you're wondering, oh my gosh, how 00:32:29.570 --> 00:32:32.870 am I going to condition my horses and maintain them and give them what they 00:32:32.870 --> 00:32:35.965 need, as well as Serving my clients. 00:32:36.205 --> 00:32:40.705 Takine equine integration aimed at a more adult client base 00:32:41.035 --> 00:32:42.685 absolutely gives you this. 00:32:42.745 --> 00:32:42.746 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:32:42.745 --> 00:32:43.135 Okay. 00:32:43.495 --> 00:32:47.575 Well you could just go to our website and go under their research 00:32:48.035 --> 00:32:53.355 tab and funded, and you can see all the funded studies that we've done. 00:32:53.355 --> 00:32:53.385 Okay. 00:32:53.745 --> 00:32:55.515 And he's at, he's at the top. 00:32:55.965 --> 00:32:55.995 Okay. 00:32:56.355 --> 00:33:00.985 And then you could also say the word that I cannot say, but anyway, so he's 00:33:00.985 --> 00:33:09.065 doing a 10 week manual based therapeutic riding intervention with horses using 00:33:09.065 --> 00:33:15.125 this equipment, but he's also having the horses wear equipment so that they 00:33:15.125 --> 00:33:21.725 can measure their heart rate and so that we know how it's affecting the horses. 00:33:21.755 --> 00:33:21.785 Okay. 00:33:22.175 --> 00:33:22.715 So. 00:33:23.330 --> 00:33:24.950 All of our studies now too. 00:33:24.950 --> 00:33:30.890 The board has decided that not only when we fund human, the human side, 00:33:30.890 --> 00:33:32.510 we want to fund the horse side. 00:33:32.510 --> 00:33:34.580 So we want people to look at both. 00:33:35.855 --> 00:33:35.975 Absolutely. 00:33:35.975 --> 00:33:39.950 And part of it is that equine wellbeing piece which is 00:33:39.950 --> 00:33:41.270 Rupert Isaacson: where I wanted to go next. 00:33:41.540 --> 00:33:41.541 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:33:41.540 --> 00:33:41.780 Okay. 00:33:42.080 --> 00:33:44.420 Now, but let me, I can get you there. 00:33:44.630 --> 00:33:45.020 Yeah, go ahead. 00:33:45.020 --> 00:33:52.280 And the sense that, again, Molly, being Molly and ahead of her time five years 00:33:52.280 --> 00:33:57.140 ago, she was like, I think we need to do an equine wellbeing committee 00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:02.750 and just really focus on how we can make our horses healthier and happier. 00:34:03.150 --> 00:34:09.540 So with that, she started the equine Wellbeing Committee and we 00:34:09.570 --> 00:34:12.490 implemented the five domains that. 00:34:13.015 --> 00:34:13.465 Dr. 00:34:13.465 --> 00:34:19.155 David Mahler and his associates had created so we were kind of a little 00:34:19.155 --> 00:34:23.205 bit of ahead of our time at, at that point in time too, because what 00:34:23.205 --> 00:34:24.165 Rupert Isaacson: are those five domains? 00:34:25.255 --> 00:34:25.256 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:34:25.255 --> 00:34:26.215 I'd be glad to tell you. 00:34:26.725 --> 00:34:30.055 So one is, it's kind of similar to the dimensions that I was 00:34:30.055 --> 00:34:31.345 telling you about wellness. 00:34:31.465 --> 00:34:31.555 Mm-hmm. 00:34:32.305 --> 00:34:35.845 But they're five, which anyway, one is nutrition. 00:34:36.245 --> 00:34:38.225 The second one is physical environment. 00:34:38.915 --> 00:34:39.005 Mm-hmm. 00:34:39.245 --> 00:34:42.635 And three is general health concerns. 00:34:43.025 --> 00:34:48.335 Four is behavior, and the fifth is the mental state, which really, it 00:34:48.335 --> 00:34:52.695 all kind of comes together as far as the whole mental state aspect. 00:34:53.265 --> 00:34:53.355 Mm-hmm. 00:34:53.545 --> 00:34:58.705 But you know, it's really interesting because you come up and, and you 00:34:58.705 --> 00:35:01.435 know, we were just talking about writing lessons and things about 00:35:01.435 --> 00:35:02.935 how traditional things work. 00:35:02.965 --> 00:35:03.160 You have these. 00:35:04.015 --> 00:35:08.305 Strip pieces of land pasture, you put your horses on it and you think 00:35:08.305 --> 00:35:09.595 your horses are gonna be happy. 00:35:09.925 --> 00:35:15.445 Well, you know, that typically is not what wild horses are happy about. 00:35:15.595 --> 00:35:20.095 You know, they roamed around and land and the woods and the pastures, you know, 00:35:20.095 --> 00:35:25.705 and that's part of that whole physical environment is having that place for them 00:35:25.705 --> 00:35:32.425 to be able to roam and explore and, you know, look around, see obstacles, be in 00:35:32.425 --> 00:35:38.785 the shade, be in the sun, you know, that, that, you know, we don't deal with slope, 00:35:38.980 --> 00:35:40.465 Rupert Isaacson: deal with rocks, deal with different things under foot. 00:35:40.465 --> 00:35:41.455 Yeah, yeah, sure. 00:35:41.455 --> 00:35:41.515 Yeah. 00:35:42.025 --> 00:35:43.495 Different wildlife coming through. 00:35:43.525 --> 00:35:43.855 Yeah. 00:35:44.245 --> 00:35:44.246 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:35:44.245 --> 00:35:44.665 Yeah. 00:35:44.665 --> 00:35:48.415 And what we do is just strip the land, put some grass on it, put 'em out there 00:35:48.895 --> 00:35:49.165 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:35:49.165 --> 00:35:49.465 And a 00:35:49.465 --> 00:35:49.466 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:35:49.465 --> 00:35:50.035 fence. 00:35:50.105 --> 00:35:52.445 You know, and they really need that stimulation 00:35:52.805 --> 00:35:52.985 Rupert Isaacson: Mm, 00:35:53.045 --> 00:35:53.046 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:35:53.045 --> 00:35:54.275 enrichment piece. 00:35:54.515 --> 00:35:54.545 Mm. 00:35:54.605 --> 00:35:57.575 Sort of like what things I do with my dog, instead of just giving him 00:35:57.575 --> 00:36:00.515 my treat, I throw 'em around the room and make him hunt for him. 00:36:01.055 --> 00:36:01.145 Yeah. 00:36:01.195 --> 00:36:04.465 You know, as far as that's part of his enrichment that he gets. 00:36:04.615 --> 00:36:04.675 Yeah. 00:36:05.195 --> 00:36:10.175 So implementing those five domains and it's just part of it, kind of 00:36:10.175 --> 00:36:12.155 going back to the education piece. 00:36:12.455 --> 00:36:13.115 Okay, yeah. 00:36:13.115 --> 00:36:15.995 We have these five domains, but how do you put 'em in a practice? 00:36:16.235 --> 00:36:24.665 So again, that comes back to our piece of education you know, saying that here 00:36:24.665 --> 00:36:29.255 we go, that, you know, we have these five domains, but how do we implement them? 00:36:29.255 --> 00:36:31.175 How do we put 'em in the practical use? 00:36:31.655 --> 00:36:34.235 So that's, that's part of it. 00:36:36.110 --> 00:36:40.790 And we just had a webinar with a farm field, Fieldstone farm when 00:36:40.790 --> 00:36:45.900 I was just mentioning a while ago that they had a turnover in staff. 00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:53.160 So the new barn manager was like, okay, well before I go into the old routine, 00:36:53.490 --> 00:36:55.620 let's look at and evaluate our horses. 00:36:55.950 --> 00:37:00.120 And they had some horses that were sour biting, not happy. 00:37:00.570 --> 00:37:02.910 So they looked at all the five domains. 00:37:02.910 --> 00:37:07.710 They didn't realize it was, they didn't know it, it was the five domains, 00:37:07.710 --> 00:37:13.550 but it was and they made changes with their vet and their farrier. 00:37:14.030 --> 00:37:20.030 And sure enough, not only did it save 'em money, which is not always 00:37:20.090 --> 00:37:23.240 was, you know, a lot of people perk up when you say save them money. 00:37:23.510 --> 00:37:26.480 But yeah, their horses are happier. 00:37:27.470 --> 00:37:29.330 They're not biting anymore. 00:37:29.330 --> 00:37:30.770 They're not sour. 00:37:31.190 --> 00:37:34.430 They're, yeah, they're happy to do their jobs. 00:37:34.460 --> 00:37:39.200 They have horses that had like, had to have a extra training. 00:37:39.200 --> 00:37:45.170 Volunteer can be led now with an, you know, intermediate or new 00:37:45.230 --> 00:37:48.830 volunteer because they're, the horse is like, okay, let's go. 00:37:48.980 --> 00:37:49.820 I'm happy now. 00:37:50.150 --> 00:37:57.080 So I think that that piece too, of implementing this new research that's 00:37:57.080 --> 00:38:02.360 so, and it shouldn't be really new is all, well, 2020, that's five years ago. 00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:07.130 But implementing these pieces so that our horses are ha healthier and 00:38:07.130 --> 00:38:10.310 happier are gonna help all humans too. 00:38:11.030 --> 00:38:11.330 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 00:38:11.330 --> 00:38:12.320 No, I, I so agree. 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:17.740 I mean, one of the things which our organization is it's foundation for us 00:38:17.770 --> 00:38:22.840 is if the horse does not have wellbeing in itself, it cannot give wellbeing. 00:38:23.230 --> 00:38:27.920 To a human, it just can't I can't give wellbeing to you 00:38:28.130 --> 00:38:29.240 if I don't have wellbeing. 00:38:29.240 --> 00:38:29.241 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:38:29.240 --> 00:38:30.200 Mm-hmm. 00:38:30.335 --> 00:38:30.555 So 00:38:30.980 --> 00:38:33.710 Rupert Isaacson: if I, you know, run myself ragged with jet lag, 00:38:33.710 --> 00:38:35.420 which I currently am, yeah. 00:38:36.440 --> 00:38:43.940 I have a limited ability to give to you if you let me sleep for, you 00:38:43.940 --> 00:38:48.590 know, a couple of days and, you know, get into my groove that goes up. 00:38:48.950 --> 00:38:50.990 But it's of course much more than this. 00:38:50.990 --> 00:38:58.340 And one of the things which I've often been a bit puzzled by in the past 00:38:58.460 --> 00:39:03.800 is because I grew up very much in the kind of hunting eventing world. 00:39:04.310 --> 00:39:04.400 Mm-hmm. 00:39:04.640 --> 00:39:09.320 I've, now I'm kind of known as this dressage guy because of the connection 00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:15.470 with collection and oxytocin, which helps people feel better and speak so. 00:39:15.950 --> 00:39:18.770 I ended up coming in through the back door to dressage, but that's not 00:39:18.770 --> 00:39:21.140 where I began my equine life at all. 00:39:21.650 --> 00:39:27.190 And what we really emphasized was fitness and fitness wasn't just 00:39:27.730 --> 00:39:31.960 cardiovascular, it was tendons. 00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:37.900 So the whole frame of the horse had to stand up to, you know, planet earth. 00:39:38.710 --> 00:39:45.090 And it was also mental emotional, meaning that if you are out on a 00:39:45.090 --> 00:39:49.230 hunt somewhere, you know, and you end up in some funky situation, your 00:39:49.260 --> 00:39:51.780 horse has to be kind of like, yeah, sure, I can, I can deal with that. 00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:53.070 Yeah, yeah, no worries. 00:39:53.160 --> 00:39:57.720 Rather than, oh my god, it's, you know, a firetruck or it's 00:39:58.530 --> 00:39:59.610 something I haven't seen before. 00:39:59.640 --> 00:40:02.010 The horse is like, even if it's something I haven't seen before, 00:40:02.430 --> 00:40:06.990 I kind of trust you, my monkey, my sky monkey sitting on me. 00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:09.450 That you wouldn't put me in a position. 00:40:09.855 --> 00:40:11.385 That was unreasonable. 00:40:11.385 --> 00:40:14.295 So, okay, I'll, I'll give this a whirl. 00:40:14.325 --> 00:40:20.055 You know, and I was really amazed when I entered the therapeutic riding arena 00:40:20.265 --> 00:40:22.425 that this was not prioritized at all. 00:40:22.905 --> 00:40:24.255 None of these things were right. 00:40:24.615 --> 00:40:27.495 As long as all was required as the horse is quiet. 00:40:28.215 --> 00:40:28.335 Yeah. 00:40:28.665 --> 00:40:28.995 Right. 00:40:28.995 --> 00:40:30.525 And it didn't matter if he was limping. 00:40:30.525 --> 00:40:32.865 It didn't matter if he was sore in the back. 00:40:33.525 --> 00:40:35.325 It didn't matter if he was biting his handler. 00:40:35.725 --> 00:40:40.945 And frequently what I noticed was they would usually cut a break to the special 00:40:40.945 --> 00:40:44.905 needs person on their back, but they would take it out on the person who was leading. 00:40:45.295 --> 00:40:46.375 They had to put it somewhere. 00:40:46.375 --> 00:40:46.735 Right. 00:40:47.335 --> 00:40:53.485 And when I first began to ask therapeutic riding places about this, 00:40:53.485 --> 00:40:55.135 like, where's your fitness program? 00:40:55.135 --> 00:40:56.995 Where's your enrichment program? 00:40:56.995 --> 00:41:00.115 Where's your lunging and in-hand program? 00:41:00.115 --> 00:41:02.425 Where's your yoga program for the horse, effectively? 00:41:02.485 --> 00:41:02.575 Mm-hmm. 00:41:02.815 --> 00:41:04.885 They'd be like, F off. 00:41:05.605 --> 00:41:09.625 Like they would meet me with a kind of a, an aggression. 00:41:10.585 --> 00:41:15.985 And it was the same aggression that I got met by when I was 00:41:16.285 --> 00:41:19.615 dealing with the one-horse world of therapy with behavioral therapy. 00:41:19.825 --> 00:41:22.345 When I was like, well, this kid's obviously unhappy. 00:41:22.615 --> 00:41:25.495 Why don't we change something about what we're doing here? 00:41:25.765 --> 00:41:29.545 'cause if I was in a round pen with a horse and it was like trying to climb 00:41:29.545 --> 00:41:34.045 out through the window effectively the fans, which a lot of these kids do in 00:41:34.045 --> 00:41:38.545 those types of sessions, I'd change something because if I don't, I might die. 00:41:39.070 --> 00:41:39.071 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:41:39.070 --> 00:41:39.420 Right? 00:41:39.530 --> 00:41:39.890 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 00:41:39.890 --> 00:41:42.950 So, and then I get greeted with this kind of, well, you dunno 00:41:42.950 --> 00:41:43.430 what you're talking about. 00:41:43.430 --> 00:41:44.240 And you're not a professional. 00:41:44.270 --> 00:41:44.935 No, no, no. 00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:46.280 And I'm like, oh, I see. 00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:48.740 So you need to get aggressive with me now. 00:41:48.980 --> 00:41:50.300 Ooh, why do you get aggressive? 00:41:50.300 --> 00:41:52.700 Well, people get aggressive when they're afraid of something. 00:41:52.850 --> 00:41:53.810 What are you afraid of? 00:41:54.020 --> 00:41:57.260 You must know deep down that your shtick doesn't really work. 00:41:57.890 --> 00:42:01.700 So what's interesting to me is that that's now changing. 00:42:03.455 --> 00:42:07.145 I think it's fair to say that in the therapeutic equine assisted environment 00:42:07.635 --> 00:42:11.805 people are now much, much more concerned with equine assisted, sorry, 00:42:11.805 --> 00:42:13.785 with fitness and equine wellbeing. 00:42:14.325 --> 00:42:24.075 But there can still be a disconnect, I feel, because many people who get 00:42:24.075 --> 00:42:29.475 interested or attracted to equine assisted work, work don't necessarily 00:42:29.475 --> 00:42:32.295 come from very strong horse backgrounds. 00:42:32.355 --> 00:42:33.555 They might or they might not. 00:42:33.900 --> 00:42:34.320 Mm-hmm. 00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:42.120 They might come in with a set of philosophies about what horses 00:42:42.120 --> 00:42:46.500 are, think and feel, which might or might not be born out. 00:42:46.890 --> 00:42:52.290 And then suddenly people are in a sort of debate, whereas, as you say, you 00:42:52.290 --> 00:42:54.150 can bring it back to some very simple. 00:42:54.675 --> 00:42:57.285 Things, which is, are you okay in your gut? 00:42:57.375 --> 00:42:59.265 Are you okay in your living conditions? 00:42:59.505 --> 00:43:00.495 Do you have friends? 00:43:00.735 --> 00:43:02.325 Do you have some freedom of movement? 00:43:02.625 --> 00:43:04.995 Are you fit, are you subtle? 00:43:05.055 --> 00:43:07.905 Do you feel like good or do you feel like, ooh, stiff? 00:43:08.355 --> 00:43:11.655 Because of course our best therapy horses are best equine assisted horses. 00:43:11.925 --> 00:43:14.685 Are you usually gonna be seniors because they're the ones with 00:43:14.685 --> 00:43:18.375 the accrued experience that, you know, just like good professionals 00:43:18.375 --> 00:43:20.655 of any, you know, any species. 00:43:21.015 --> 00:43:25.545 So now that you are aware of this, are you taking it? 00:43:25.545 --> 00:43:28.425 Where are horses and Newmans taking it now? 00:43:28.475 --> 00:43:34.835 Those of us who know our work know that we are big on lunging in hand work and 00:43:34.835 --> 00:43:40.595 long reigning because we know that we can kind of reverse age and rehab messed up 00:43:40.595 --> 00:43:46.265 horses that get given as donation horses and, you know, we can often assuage 00:43:46.265 --> 00:43:48.695 their old injuries and help 'em out. 00:43:49.670 --> 00:43:51.770 Are you looking at this kind of thing as well? 00:43:51.880 --> 00:43:57.850 How are you developing, I guess, from this basic five things to further 00:43:57.850 --> 00:44:02.110 things to sort of try to ensure equine wellbeing as best you can? 00:44:03.100 --> 00:44:03.101 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:44:03.100 --> 00:44:03.400 Yeah. 00:44:03.450 --> 00:44:07.500 With that said, and a little sidebar, Christina Wilkins does 00:44:07.500 --> 00:44:13.540 a course on the five domains that I've taken and I highly suggest it. 00:44:13.545 --> 00:44:14.685 Rupert Isaacson: Who is Christina Wilkins? 00:44:14.685 --> 00:44:15.845 Tell us about Christina Wilkins. 00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:16.321 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:22.730 She actually worked with David Mahler and she does horses and People magazine. 00:44:22.730 --> 00:44:23.930 She's in Australia. 00:44:24.620 --> 00:44:24.650 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:44:24.650 --> 00:44:25.490 I'm looking her up right now. 00:44:25.490 --> 00:44:28.490 Chris, Christine Wilkins. 00:44:28.550 --> 00:44:28.551 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:44:28.550 --> 00:44:29.060 Yes. 00:44:29.660 --> 00:44:35.120 And the reason she does a lot with equitation science. 00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:35.600 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:44:35.680 --> 00:44:35.681 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:44:35.680 --> 00:44:39.580 So you can probably find her, find her with that. 00:44:39.580 --> 00:44:40.690 And it's cr. 00:44:41.500 --> 00:44:44.170 I-S-T-I-N-A. 00:44:44.540 --> 00:44:46.190 She's a PhD candidate. 00:44:46.290 --> 00:44:52.330 But she's she, she really had, to me, she was like a, she's super smart. 00:44:52.900 --> 00:44:52.930 Okay. 00:44:53.080 --> 00:44:57.700 But Christina Wilkins does a five domains course that I highly suggest. 00:44:58.040 --> 00:44:59.690 And it's not that expensive. 00:45:00.030 --> 00:45:03.600 I think it's like maybe 120 or $140. 00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:03.900 Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm. 00:45:04.140 --> 00:45:04.500 But, 00:45:04.650 --> 00:45:04.651 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:45:04.650 --> 00:45:11.040 and after taking it, I was, there's just so much material in it, I 00:45:11.040 --> 00:45:14.290 kind of feel like I need to go back and take it again because she does 00:45:14.290 --> 00:45:15.940 an excellent job of teaching it. 00:45:16.245 --> 00:45:16.405 But 00:45:16.545 --> 00:45:16.765 I'm 00:45:16.765 --> 00:45:17.320 Rupert Isaacson: looking it up right now. 00:45:18.130 --> 00:45:18.131 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:45:18.130 --> 00:45:18.640 Yeah. 00:45:18.910 --> 00:45:24.160 So the, and I think that's the other thing too, Ru is about, about 00:45:24.160 --> 00:45:28.030 why we do podcasts and we want. 00:45:29.585 --> 00:45:33.565 Like, we don't want to like say we are the only ones who are doing this. 00:45:33.565 --> 00:45:33.655 Right? 00:45:33.895 --> 00:45:38.425 We want everyone to know, these are really great people, these are great resources. 00:45:38.665 --> 00:45:43.675 You know, sharing and caring and just letting the world know all 00:45:43.675 --> 00:45:47.675 these different places that you can find information and research. 00:45:47.735 --> 00:45:54.075 But I think part of what we do now is try to implement these through our webinars. 00:45:54.075 --> 00:45:57.225 For example, we just had one yesterday about Mustangs. 00:45:57.565 --> 00:45:58.435 She was great. 00:45:58.525 --> 00:46:01.945 And I think a lot of it is like with Mustang training, 00:46:02.335 --> 00:46:04.735 it, you have to watch behavior. 00:46:04.740 --> 00:46:05.140 Mm-hmm. 00:46:05.225 --> 00:46:09.055 And not a lot of sort of, kind of taking a step back. 00:46:09.355 --> 00:46:15.985 A not a lot of people watch behavior and maybe you, you and I grew up around 00:46:15.985 --> 00:46:20.845 horses, so we kind of, I don't know about you, but I think I'm was like very 00:46:20.845 --> 00:46:24.025 regimental, like, you know, British. 00:46:24.325 --> 00:46:28.945 Kind of drill teams, this go fox hunting, you go show hunting, blah, blah, blah. 00:46:29.285 --> 00:46:29.825 I really didn't. 00:46:29.830 --> 00:46:30.290 Oh yeah, I know. 00:46:30.330 --> 00:46:31.450 Rupert Isaacson: I totally grew up with all that. 00:46:31.450 --> 00:46:31.650 Yeah. 00:46:31.895 --> 00:46:31.896 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:46:31.895 --> 00:46:32.375 Yeah. 00:46:32.375 --> 00:46:35.255 And I really didn't get into watching behavior. 00:46:35.255 --> 00:46:39.815 I really started more, most of that journey in the past 20 years. 00:46:39.815 --> 00:46:43.955 But I feel like that's a piece of horsemanship that all of us should 00:46:43.955 --> 00:46:45.695 have, and all of us should know. 00:46:46.025 --> 00:46:51.335 And that's like part of, part of our educational pieces 00:46:51.335 --> 00:46:53.165 is to have that out there. 00:46:53.355 --> 00:46:55.545 So we do that through webinars. 00:46:55.795 --> 00:46:59.125 We also do that through our conference for the example, 00:46:59.185 --> 00:47:02.035 this new our conference in 2026. 00:47:02.405 --> 00:47:07.665 We're having our first pre-conference horse fair day that is all about 00:47:07.695 --> 00:47:13.365 being at the barn and doing things with horses on February 27th. 00:47:13.735 --> 00:47:14.365 And then 00:47:14.695 --> 00:47:15.330 Rupert Isaacson: on what's that gonna. 00:47:16.030 --> 00:47:16.031 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:47:16.030 --> 00:47:18.790 It's in Kissimmee, Orlando, Florida. 00:47:19.035 --> 00:47:19.325 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:47:19.435 --> 00:47:19.436 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:47:19.435 --> 00:47:19.725 Yeah. 00:47:19.785 --> 00:47:21.405 Rupert Isaacson: And when in, when in February? 00:47:21.405 --> 00:47:21.685 Is that 00:47:22.260 --> 00:47:22.261 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:47:22.260 --> 00:47:25.160 It's February 27th is our pre-conference. 00:47:25.160 --> 00:47:25.190 Okay. 00:47:25.490 --> 00:47:29.570 And then our conference is actually February 28th and March 1st. 00:47:29.655 --> 00:47:29.855 Rupert Isaacson: Interesting. 00:47:30.075 --> 00:47:32.070 I'm gonna be in Florida around that time. 00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:32.401 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:33.300 You need to come. 00:47:33.510 --> 00:47:34.695 Rupert Isaacson: I will absolutely come. 00:47:34.805 --> 00:47:35.095 Yeah. 00:47:35.310 --> 00:47:35.311 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:47:35.310 --> 00:47:37.730 And our keynote speaker is Dr. 00:47:37.730 --> 00:47:38.610 Steven Peters. 00:47:39.420 --> 00:47:39.870 Rupert Isaacson: Ah, wonderful 00:47:40.290 --> 00:47:40.291 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:47:40.290 --> 00:47:40.380 man. 00:47:40.380 --> 00:47:44.010 Yeah, he did our excellent job being a keynote speaker for his 00:47:44.010 --> 00:47:47.760 last year to the point where I was like, who do we get to top that? 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:48.930 So asked him to come back. 00:47:49.830 --> 00:47:51.060 Rupert Isaacson: Excellent, excellent choice. 00:47:51.510 --> 00:47:51.511 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:47:51.510 --> 00:47:54.720 And and we have a track we have three tracks. 00:47:55.050 --> 00:47:58.350 One is for researchers or research, or current research. 00:47:58.560 --> 00:48:00.390 One is on equine wellbeing. 00:48:01.095 --> 00:48:02.865 All dedicated to equine wellbeing. 00:48:02.955 --> 00:48:05.445 And then their other one in the middle is program. 00:48:05.715 --> 00:48:09.735 So sometimes, you know, we have things that are just for program 00:48:09.735 --> 00:48:14.325 people or trying a new program or don't really fit in research but 00:48:14.325 --> 00:48:15.705 don't fit in equine wellbeing. 00:48:15.705 --> 00:48:17.325 So I kind of in the middle. 00:48:17.535 --> 00:48:21.615 So that's where we kind of dedicate our, our work. 00:48:21.615 --> 00:48:26.175 And there's some programs I think that we are going to start to develop and 00:48:26.175 --> 00:48:31.915 work with other organizations that are working with horses with youth. 00:48:32.035 --> 00:48:37.855 So hopefully those will be they're just in the, the creative stage. 00:48:37.855 --> 00:48:39.090 We'll see How, can you tell us 00:48:39.090 --> 00:48:39.770 Rupert Isaacson: who some of those are? 00:48:39.770 --> 00:48:41.930 Or do you want to keep that quiet for now? 00:48:42.660 --> 00:48:42.661 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:48:42.660 --> 00:48:43.975 We'll wait and see how it goes. 00:48:44.005 --> 00:48:44.035 Okay. 00:48:44.215 --> 00:48:44.575 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:48:45.055 --> 00:48:45.265 Fine. 00:48:45.805 --> 00:48:45.806 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:48:45.805 --> 00:48:46.165 But yeah. 00:48:47.050 --> 00:48:50.200 Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so you, you are really building up this equine 00:48:50.200 --> 00:48:53.650 wellbeing piece, by the way, I have a, I have to do a shout out to her. 00:48:54.010 --> 00:48:58.930 We, I have a proposition for you, for a keynote maybe for the next year. 00:48:59.380 --> 00:48:59.470 Okay. 00:48:59.470 --> 00:49:00.880 Joel Dunlap. 00:49:01.660 --> 00:49:01.661 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:49:01.660 --> 00:49:01.720 Okay. 00:49:02.170 --> 00:49:08.280 Rupert Isaacson: Square Peg Foundation, California the last 25 years mostly 00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:11.710 rehabbing thoroughbreds off the track and polo ponies putting 'em 00:49:11.710 --> 00:49:17.580 through a classical in hand and long reigning program and getting 00:49:17.670 --> 00:49:19.380 the most extraordinary results. 00:49:19.380 --> 00:49:24.870 And now they've got two campuses near San Francisco and now they are one of the big 00:49:24.870 --> 00:49:29.150 mental health providers for for mental health in San Mateo County, which is. 00:49:29.550 --> 00:49:30.270 Silicon Valley. 00:49:30.270 --> 00:49:30.330 Yeah. 00:49:30.640 --> 00:49:34.360 But she started as a 16-year-old single mom with a special needs kit. 00:49:34.365 --> 00:49:34.535 Wow. 00:49:34.840 --> 00:49:34.960 Wow. 00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:39.430 Working in the shi end of the racing industry, working on the tracks. 00:49:39.490 --> 00:49:39.850 Ah, yeah. 00:49:39.940 --> 00:49:42.790 So like, she knows she's, she's paid her dues. 00:49:43.120 --> 00:49:46.650 And Joel one of my, she's one of my great heroes, but she 00:49:47.640 --> 00:49:49.260 really has all the pieces I feel. 00:49:49.620 --> 00:49:53.150 And she's spoken alongside people like Dr. 00:49:53.150 --> 00:49:57.030 Steven Peters and so on before, but I, yeah, I'd recommend her to you anyway. 00:49:57.035 --> 00:49:57.690 That's, that's okay. 00:49:57.990 --> 00:49:57.991 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:49:57.990 --> 00:49:58.260 Great. 00:49:58.540 --> 00:50:01.550 Rupert Isaacson: if you're a horse nerd, and if you're on this podcast, 00:50:01.950 --> 00:50:06.850 I'm guessing you are, then you've probably also always wondered a little 00:50:06.850 --> 00:50:09.100 bit about the old master system. 00:50:09.565 --> 00:50:10.875 of dressage training. 00:50:10.915 --> 00:50:19.485 If you go and check out our Helios Harmony program, we outline there step by step 00:50:19.555 --> 00:50:25.835 exactly how to train your horse from the ground to become the dressage horse 00:50:25.845 --> 00:50:32.365 of your dreams in a way that absolutely serves the physical, mental and emotional 00:50:32.415 --> 00:50:35.185 well being of the horse and the rider. 00:50:35.245 --> 00:50:35.985 Intrigued? 00:50:36.185 --> 00:50:37.045 Like to know more? 00:50:37.915 --> 00:50:40.745 Go to our website, Helios Harmony. 00:50:42.445 --> 00:50:44.135 Check out the free introduction course. 00:50:44.695 --> 00:50:45.215 Take it from there. 00:50:45.769 --> 00:50:45.770 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:50:45.769 --> 00:50:49.459 I wanted to mention too, you is that we do have an innovative, and I know this 00:50:49.459 --> 00:50:55.174 might be dated because this is gonna be on YouTube, but currently it means it's 00:50:55.174 --> 00:50:56.374 Rupert Isaacson: evergreen, not, not dated. 00:50:57.274 --> 00:50:57.275 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:50:57.274 --> 00:50:57.494 Yes. 00:50:57.494 --> 00:50:57.934 Excuse me. 00:50:57.954 --> 00:50:58.174 Yes. 00:50:58.204 --> 00:51:00.079 Evergreen is one of our favorite words. 00:51:00.439 --> 00:51:04.420 And it's we have an innovative grant that's due December 5th. 00:51:05.139 --> 00:51:07.924 That is all about the horses, right. 00:51:07.929 --> 00:51:09.129 And just horses. 00:51:09.369 --> 00:51:15.529 So, that's something that we're trying to also bring about that we want to 00:51:15.829 --> 00:51:20.779 not only do, like I said, when we do a call for human side, we want 00:51:20.779 --> 00:51:22.459 people to look at the horse side. 00:51:22.819 --> 00:51:22.879 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:51:22.949 --> 00:51:22.950 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:51:22.949 --> 00:51:27.209 But we also are trying to do things for horses strictly. 00:51:27.359 --> 00:51:31.349 And part of this innovative grant, it's an honor. 00:51:31.589 --> 00:51:34.379 This great man who passed away about, broke my heart. 00:51:34.769 --> 00:51:35.849 He was on our board, Dr. 00:51:35.849 --> 00:51:38.969 Mark Chrisman who worked for Zoetis Equine. 00:51:39.359 --> 00:51:44.489 And Zoetis helped us with this grant by sponsoring it with 5,000. 00:51:44.489 --> 00:51:50.089 And then we raised the other five from other people friends of Mark's or those 00:51:50.089 --> 00:51:51.949 who are just excited about horses. 00:51:52.469 --> 00:51:53.099 But. 00:51:53.729 --> 00:51:58.739 You know, part of that is that we, the project is really based on the five 00:51:58.739 --> 00:52:05.609 domains and how to incorporate that five domains and techniques or applications 00:52:05.979 --> 00:52:08.919 with daily assessment of equines. 00:52:08.919 --> 00:52:13.449 So how do you implement those five domains and how can you make sure 00:52:13.449 --> 00:52:15.159 that you're kinda assessing that? 00:52:15.649 --> 00:52:21.499 So that's part of the 10,000 innovative grant for this year in 2026. 00:52:21.739 --> 00:52:26.249 But I'm sure we'll be having excuse me in 2025 getting ahead of myself. 00:52:26.729 --> 00:52:29.759 But I'm sure we'll have some in 2026 too. 00:52:30.089 --> 00:52:34.989 We haven't made a decision yet about what our big grant will be for but we'll 00:52:34.989 --> 00:52:42.179 have the, right now our plan is to have 150,000 for for a big grant for horses and 00:52:42.179 --> 00:52:45.539 humans, and another 10,000 for innovative. 00:52:45.644 --> 00:52:47.204 In 2026. 00:52:47.504 --> 00:52:47.984 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 00:52:48.044 --> 00:52:50.024 So let's look ahead Yeah. 00:52:50.024 --> 00:52:56.204 In a perfect world, right, you would be sitting on some millions mm-hmm. 00:52:56.444 --> 00:53:03.464 And you'd be able to give grants that are much more significant that way. 00:53:04.094 --> 00:53:08.324 How do you envisage growing towards that point? 00:53:08.414 --> 00:53:12.794 And then how do you, once you get to that point, and I'm sure you will, 00:53:13.034 --> 00:53:17.264 'cause I've watched you guys grow and I I can absolutely see the day 00:53:17.264 --> 00:53:20.804 clearly when Pebbles is, you know, giving a million quid to somebody. 00:53:21.224 --> 00:53:21.674 Oh, I love it. 00:53:21.739 --> 00:53:25.784 And, and I mean, and up so on the sidelines, pomp on me. 00:53:25.814 --> 00:53:26.024 Thank you. 00:53:26.384 --> 00:53:28.904 Because, you know, because we need this, we need this. 00:53:29.264 --> 00:53:33.644 Where these things get tricky, as you know, is that kind of 00:53:33.644 --> 00:53:37.304 money can end up being very much sequestered by the academics and. 00:53:37.979 --> 00:53:42.379 Then it gets ivory towered rather than looking to those people that are 00:53:42.379 --> 00:53:44.059 doing the really innovative stuff. 00:53:44.659 --> 00:53:45.919 I'll put myself out there for that. 00:53:45.919 --> 00:53:54.589 You know, when we were first new on the scene, I mean the, the sort of existing 00:53:54.589 --> 00:53:58.339 powers that b 'cause they're still there. 00:53:58.629 --> 00:54:03.699 Within the therapeutic writing thing, just try to like blow us out of the 00:54:03.699 --> 00:54:06.819 water like they reacted with hostility. 00:54:06.969 --> 00:54:09.099 It was shocking actually. 00:54:09.379 --> 00:54:13.489 As an autism dad, I was like, wow, you're supposed to care about people like my son. 00:54:13.699 --> 00:54:15.289 You don't care about people like my son. 00:54:15.499 --> 00:54:18.529 You actually just care about, oh, okay. 00:54:19.009 --> 00:54:19.639 Good to know. 00:54:20.059 --> 00:54:20.539 Right. 00:54:20.959 --> 00:54:25.549 Now that you're a gatekeeper and at a certain point you're going to be. 00:54:26.419 --> 00:54:28.789 Passing that hat to another gatekeeper. 00:54:29.629 --> 00:54:34.939 How are you gonna ensure that when you reach that point of giving those really 00:54:34.939 --> 00:54:40.849 big grants, which let's face it, the the field needs, because also the more 00:54:40.849 --> 00:54:42.739 money, the more legitimization Right. 00:54:42.739 --> 00:54:42.759 You know? 00:54:43.024 --> 00:54:43.374 Right. 00:54:43.849 --> 00:54:46.639 Very impressed by, you know, multimillion dollar grants. 00:54:47.419 --> 00:54:51.619 How are you gonna ensure that the cutting edge, that the innovative, that the 00:54:51.889 --> 00:54:57.949 small person doing something kind of cool over there doesn't get like, bumped out? 00:54:59.329 --> 00:54:59.330 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:54:59.329 --> 00:55:05.479 I think part of it is, and you know, like if I were to, if we had this philosophical 00:55:05.479 --> 00:55:12.539 discussion, like if we received a million dollars, would just for grant making, 00:55:12.624 --> 00:55:12.844 Rupert Isaacson: mm, 00:55:13.769 --> 00:55:13.770 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:55:13.769 --> 00:55:17.249 would we just give out a million dollar grant? 00:55:17.369 --> 00:55:19.829 I, I think it might be helpful. 00:55:20.579 --> 00:55:26.549 If we did a large grant, but I don't want to, I want we, excuse me. 00:55:26.879 --> 00:55:33.779 We want to make sure that we support people coming through academics 00:55:33.779 --> 00:55:35.399 who are working on their PhD. 00:55:35.669 --> 00:55:40.409 I would love to have funds that I could do scholarships for people working on 00:55:40.409 --> 00:55:44.849 their dissertation and have a smaller grant fund for them, or have those 00:55:44.849 --> 00:55:47.459 smaller grants for innovative studies. 00:55:47.729 --> 00:55:52.199 So I don't want to put everything in one bread basket. 00:55:52.289 --> 00:55:57.869 I, I really feel like we need to have like, multiple grants, multiple sizes. 00:55:57.989 --> 00:55:58.319 I agree. 00:55:58.319 --> 00:56:02.009 So we don't like blow people out of the water. 00:56:02.009 --> 00:56:02.699 Also, also don't want it 00:56:02.699 --> 00:56:03.719 Rupert Isaacson: all to be in academia. 00:56:03.719 --> 00:56:04.019 Right. 00:56:04.019 --> 00:56:08.219 Because what the academics are doing is they're measuring the stuff that 00:56:08.219 --> 00:56:10.079 innovative people are already doing. 00:56:10.469 --> 00:56:10.829 Like Right. 00:56:10.829 --> 00:56:13.049 Good science follows good practice. 00:56:13.049 --> 00:56:13.379 Right? 00:56:13.949 --> 00:56:13.950 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:56:13.949 --> 00:56:14.279 Correct. 00:56:14.279 --> 00:56:15.914 Rupert Isaacson: Rather than someone saying, I've got a 00:56:15.914 --> 00:56:17.069 theory and I wanna prove it. 00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:17.640 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:21.839 Yeah, and I think part of it is, is the culture we really want. 00:56:22.469 --> 00:56:26.909 We're really working on a culture where people work together, and that's 00:56:26.909 --> 00:56:33.029 why part of it is we want people from multi-disciplines to work together. 00:56:33.459 --> 00:56:40.839 So it's not just in the equine studies or not just in the exercise physiology. 00:56:41.109 --> 00:56:45.159 Like they work together to come out with the best income for 00:56:45.279 --> 00:56:48.189 everybody, not just that one area. 00:56:48.679 --> 00:56:48.969 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 00:56:50.204 --> 00:56:53.234 I mean, I, I, I put myself forward for this with the podcast that I'm doing right 00:56:53.234 --> 00:56:56.114 now with you, just full disclosure ads. 00:56:56.144 --> 00:56:58.364 Those of you who are listening or watching. 00:56:59.024 --> 00:57:03.224 Horse Boy Foundation, which is us, has never received a grant from horses 00:57:03.224 --> 00:57:06.584 And Humans Research Foundation doesn't mean we won't apply at some point. 00:57:06.824 --> 00:57:10.244 Doesn't mean that pebbles also might not turn us down at some point. 00:57:10.544 --> 00:57:13.664 And I might still be friends with her if she, if she does that. 00:57:13.664 --> 00:57:14.744 But it, let me just 00:57:14.744 --> 00:57:14.745 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:57:14.744 --> 00:57:15.794 give you this disclaimer. 00:57:15.854 --> 00:57:16.814 I don't have a vote. 00:57:17.504 --> 00:57:17.984 Rupert Isaacson: Oh, yeah. 00:57:17.984 --> 00:57:20.054 But I'll still, I'll still be passive aggressive with you. 00:57:20.054 --> 00:57:20.414 I mean, come on. 00:57:20.624 --> 00:57:21.644 Don't deny me that opportunity. 00:57:23.144 --> 00:57:23.659 Please don't. 00:57:23.659 --> 00:57:24.764 But you know what I'm saying. 00:57:24.769 --> 00:57:27.314 So, so, so the whole point I'm bringing this up is that, yeah. 00:57:27.524 --> 00:57:31.424 We created this podcast not just so that we could promote 00:57:31.754 --> 00:57:33.134 people that do what we do. 00:57:34.424 --> 00:57:39.074 We are always actively looking for people who do something else. 00:57:39.434 --> 00:57:40.124 That's cool. 00:57:40.604 --> 00:57:40.664 Yeah. 00:57:40.664 --> 00:57:42.404 What can we learn, you know? 00:57:42.704 --> 00:57:43.064 Right. 00:57:43.799 --> 00:57:43.800 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:57:43.799 --> 00:57:45.869 And we're not in our own little bubble. 00:57:46.019 --> 00:57:48.569 That's the thing that, that's great about you. 00:57:48.569 --> 00:57:48.659 And 00:57:49.259 --> 00:57:49.579 Rupert Isaacson: protecting all Yeah. 00:57:49.579 --> 00:57:49.814 Yeah. 00:57:49.819 --> 00:57:49.820 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:57:49.819 --> 00:57:50.249 And protect. 00:57:50.249 --> 00:57:50.609 Yeah. 00:57:50.609 --> 00:57:51.239 And protecting. 00:57:51.299 --> 00:57:54.239 We wanna share, we wanna help everybody. 00:57:54.569 --> 00:57:58.739 I kind of say sometimes, and I don't know if this would float in Europe 00:57:58.739 --> 00:58:02.699 or not, that we're Switzerland, because I don't have, we don't, 00:58:02.849 --> 00:58:05.069 are not vested in a certain breed. 00:58:05.339 --> 00:58:07.799 I'm not invested in a certain discipline. 00:58:07.979 --> 00:58:10.139 I'm not invested in a certain organization. 00:58:10.499 --> 00:58:11.459 I'm neutral. 00:58:11.549 --> 00:58:13.799 We're just here to help everybody through. 00:58:13.804 --> 00:58:15.094 That's what research's 00:58:15.094 --> 00:58:15.294 Rupert Isaacson: always said. 00:58:15.294 --> 00:58:17.669 While it sits on the money, that's why everybody hates them. 00:58:17.669 --> 00:58:21.054 Sorry, I'm just, I think you're a little bit better. 00:58:21.869 --> 00:58:23.189 I didn't, but they made great chocolate. 00:58:23.189 --> 00:58:23.759 Great chocolate. 00:58:24.449 --> 00:58:24.450 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:58:24.449 --> 00:58:27.269 If there's a European culture piece that or not. 00:58:27.959 --> 00:58:30.719 I wish we had a lot of money so I could be like, switch water. 00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:31.409 I think you'll 00:58:31.409 --> 00:58:33.749 Rupert Isaacson: though, I, I, I've, I've watched you grow 00:58:33.749 --> 00:58:36.119 from really small beginnings. 00:58:36.449 --> 00:58:36.539 Mm-hmm. 00:58:36.959 --> 00:58:38.909 I have every faith that. 00:58:40.709 --> 00:58:47.669 20 years from now, you'll be giving out multiple grants. 00:58:47.969 --> 00:58:51.059 Much, much bigger, but you won't be the only ones. 00:58:51.059 --> 00:58:57.989 I think that what will have happened by then is you will have mentored some other 00:58:57.989 --> 00:59:04.649 organizations to come in and perhaps look after some other areas and the, 00:59:04.649 --> 00:59:11.589 the pool of money as our work becomes more legitimized through the work, you 00:59:11.589 --> 00:59:13.359 know, that you guys have done as well. 00:59:15.429 --> 00:59:16.809 It just attracts more, more dos. 00:59:17.949 --> 00:59:17.950 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:59:17.949 --> 00:59:18.189 Yeah. 00:59:18.189 --> 00:59:22.539 I will say though, we we're the only organization that funds 00:59:22.539 --> 00:59:24.639 strictly horses and humans. 00:59:24.729 --> 00:59:24.969 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:59:25.059 --> 00:59:25.060 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:59:25.059 --> 00:59:30.669 There, there are organizations that do horse research, specific research 00:59:30.879 --> 00:59:34.749 organizations that do multiple animals and horses are included. 00:59:35.254 --> 00:59:40.414 Or courses in humans are included in other type of things, but yeah. 00:59:40.624 --> 00:59:45.604 And I would hope that, I'm hoping that that time clock is a little faster. 00:59:46.774 --> 00:59:47.929 Like I'm hoping that it would be 00:59:47.929 --> 00:59:48.409 Rupert Isaacson: nice, wouldn't it? 00:59:48.454 --> 00:59:48.455 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 00:59:48.454 --> 00:59:48.814 Yeah. 00:59:48.819 --> 00:59:51.754 In the next couple of years, we have enough funds to be able 00:59:51.754 --> 00:59:57.244 to do multiple grants because, because I'm gonna need more staff. 00:59:57.554 --> 00:59:59.654 Because right now I'm the only full-time staff. 01:00:00.044 --> 01:00:02.684 Terry Boggs is our operations manager. 01:00:02.684 --> 01:00:06.134 She's been with the organization for 20 years, does a fabulous job. 01:00:06.614 --> 01:00:11.264 She does all the grant applications and she, yeah, so I'm gonna need, 01:00:11.624 --> 01:00:15.554 I'm gonna need more staff, so that's gonna take some more money. 01:00:15.604 --> 01:00:20.584 But all of our funds go strictly to grants and operations. 01:00:21.004 --> 01:00:22.294 So yeah. 01:00:22.384 --> 01:00:25.024 And the other thing I need to tell you, which we didn't 01:00:25.084 --> 01:00:26.704 talk about as far as programs. 01:00:27.229 --> 01:00:30.949 Is the fact that there's not a lot of access to research. 01:00:31.159 --> 01:00:36.589 So you can go to our website and see the research that we funded, but underneath 01:00:36.589 --> 01:00:44.059 our research tab, we have a link to our H-H-H-R-F Science Open Collection. 01:00:44.329 --> 01:00:51.009 So we have working with science open and created a place that all 01:00:51.009 --> 01:00:56.419 for open research that has horse and human interaction as well as 01:00:56.419 --> 01:00:59.239 equine wellbeing research articles. 01:00:59.549 --> 01:01:05.929 So they're, right now, currently there's 1,158, but that changes daily. 01:01:05.929 --> 01:01:09.719 'cause it, there's an algorithm and it updates overnight, but 01:01:09.809 --> 01:01:15.899 that's open research again, that you can go to that collection and 01:01:15.929 --> 01:01:18.299 search for specific things on. 01:01:18.824 --> 01:01:23.024 Like, the first one that I just pulled out was Hippotherapy and Cerebral Palsy. 01:01:23.424 --> 01:01:29.764 So, or you can look at equine assisted Growth and learning model, or the 01:01:29.764 --> 01:01:33.984 effect the effect of hippotherapy with children with cerebral palsy. 01:01:33.984 --> 01:01:38.524 I just mentioned that, you know, there's different ones depending on what you're 01:01:38.524 --> 01:01:42.574 looking for, but they're in chronological order as far as when they came out. 01:01:43.064 --> 01:01:48.129 I, I think we did it back for 10 years when we started the collection. 01:01:48.129 --> 01:01:54.429 So that right there is a free, again, a free resource we are offering to everyone 01:01:54.429 --> 01:01:57.099 and everyone around the globe accesses it. 01:01:57.579 --> 01:01:59.079 I get a monthly report. 01:01:59.079 --> 01:02:02.919 It's kind of cool to see who is looking at it in which countries 01:02:07.839 --> 01:02:11.649 Rupert Isaacson: what do you think is the great. 01:02:12.174 --> 01:02:18.564 Neglected or under observed, underserved area of equine assisted 01:02:18.564 --> 01:02:23.034 horses and humans work right now. 01:02:23.034 --> 01:02:24.174 Like what do you think? 01:02:24.174 --> 01:02:27.054 If you had a perfect world and you could like say, you know, I'd 01:02:27.054 --> 01:02:30.084 really like to shine a spotlight there, where would it be? 01:02:32.734 --> 01:02:32.735 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:02:32.734 --> 01:02:34.024 This is really biased. 01:02:35.344 --> 01:02:36.064 Rupert Isaacson: Hey, we're all subjective. 01:02:36.064 --> 01:02:36.664 That's fine. 01:02:37.244 --> 01:02:37.245 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:02:37.244 --> 01:02:42.104 I really would like to do some big study on Parkinson's. 01:02:42.494 --> 01:02:42.764 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:02:42.824 --> 01:02:42.825 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:02:42.824 --> 01:02:47.784 And I would would love to do maybe a matching grant if I could get with Michael 01:02:47.784 --> 01:02:50.454 j Fox's foundation and do something there. 01:02:50.934 --> 01:02:55.284 I'd love to do something perhaps even with Christopher Reeves Foundation. 01:02:55.624 --> 01:02:59.344 They don't fund research, but they could fund the program piece if we 01:02:59.344 --> 01:03:02.984 could do the research on MS and writing. 01:03:03.584 --> 01:03:08.204 I'd like to see there's some smaller studies going on with dementia. 01:03:08.204 --> 01:03:08.234 Okay. 01:03:08.984 --> 01:03:14.184 Personally, I like to also see people who have cancer and who 01:03:14.184 --> 01:03:15.714 are going through remission. 01:03:16.434 --> 01:03:20.134 Some programs calling like the Pink Ladies et cetera. 01:03:20.134 --> 01:03:24.274 But I think the power of the horse there. 01:03:24.814 --> 01:03:27.784 I like to see something done with the volunteers. 01:03:28.204 --> 01:03:33.544 Like, why do people volunteer with equine assistive programs versus 01:03:33.904 --> 01:03:38.104 their library down the street or the YMCA down the street? 01:03:38.104 --> 01:03:38.614 Does he get to hang 01:03:38.614 --> 01:03:39.484 Rupert Isaacson: out with ponies? 01:03:39.939 --> 01:03:39.940 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:03:39.939 --> 01:03:40.229 Yeah. 01:03:40.744 --> 01:03:41.044 Yeah. 01:03:41.134 --> 01:03:42.574 So what is that pony benefit? 01:03:42.994 --> 01:03:43.534 Why is that? 01:03:43.534 --> 01:03:44.104 I mean, come on. 01:03:44.164 --> 01:03:44.494 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:03:44.499 --> 01:03:44.500 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:03:44.499 --> 01:03:44.589 Yeah. 01:03:45.214 --> 01:03:49.444 So why is that pony helping them in a way that they didn't get it somewhere else? 01:03:50.014 --> 01:03:50.284 Rupert Isaacson: Exactly. 01:03:50.284 --> 01:03:50.294 Exactly. 01:03:50.529 --> 01:03:50.530 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:03:50.529 --> 01:03:55.564 I, you know, I talked to a group yesterday that deals with high school students. 01:03:55.969 --> 01:04:01.654 I, I know that the barn saved me during high school because 01:04:01.654 --> 01:04:06.274 I didn't really, just wasn't my thing, but the barn was my place. 01:04:06.334 --> 01:04:08.614 Rupert Isaacson: Meaning you, you weren't the homecoming queen. 01:04:09.089 --> 01:04:09.090 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:04:09.089 --> 01:04:09.689 I was not. 01:04:10.149 --> 01:04:11.289 Mm, I was not 01:04:11.729 --> 01:04:12.289 Rupert Isaacson: actually, I wasn't, 01:04:12.994 --> 01:04:12.995 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:04:12.994 --> 01:04:16.054 I wasn't, I wasn't the nerd, but I wasn't 01:04:16.594 --> 01:04:16.664 Rupert Isaacson: the queen. 01:04:16.664 --> 01:04:17.434 Yeah, exactly. 01:04:17.434 --> 01:04:18.724 And it, it's so weird, isn't it? 01:04:18.994 --> 01:04:23.344 Within that middle school and high school experience, which seems to scar people for 01:04:23.344 --> 01:04:27.864 the next 50 years unless you fitted one of those prescribed roles of which they're 01:04:27.864 --> 01:04:32.004 only like five you're kind of effed up. 01:04:32.664 --> 01:04:32.665 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:04:32.664 --> 01:04:33.924 Well, I think, and even, and if you 01:04:33.924 --> 01:04:35.934 Rupert Isaacson: did fit one of those roles, you are also effed 01:04:35.934 --> 01:04:38.244 up because, you know, yeah. 01:04:38.784 --> 01:04:38.785 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:04:38.784 --> 01:04:41.784 I didn't learn, I didn't, I wasn't that traditional learner. 01:04:42.084 --> 01:04:46.764 I was experiential learner and I was stuck in this desk and that 01:04:46.764 --> 01:04:49.044 just wasn't thriving for me. 01:04:49.434 --> 01:04:49.464 Rupert Isaacson: Mm. 01:04:49.464 --> 01:04:49.554 The 01:04:49.554 --> 01:04:49.555 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:04:49.554 --> 01:04:52.914 barn was, it was experiential learning at its desk. 01:04:53.344 --> 01:04:58.364 But I would love to do a study as far as like why kids and it 01:04:58.424 --> 01:04:59.864 kept, keeps you outta trouble. 01:05:00.104 --> 01:05:04.364 Like the discipline that you learn the responsibility working with 01:05:04.364 --> 01:05:12.674 horses versus maybe basketball or field hockey or football or whatever. 01:05:12.674 --> 01:05:18.254 And, you know, what, are there any differences there in the sport? 01:05:18.314 --> 01:05:19.099 And those shall I, 01:05:19.099 --> 01:05:21.074 Rupert Isaacson: shall I throw my 2 cents in there because, go 01:05:21.434 --> 01:05:21.435 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:05:21.434 --> 01:05:21.554 ahead. 01:05:21.764 --> 01:05:22.064 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:05:22.064 --> 01:05:25.164 So if you read the old Masters from. 01:05:26.184 --> 01:05:27.204 The real old master. 01:05:27.204 --> 01:05:31.734 The first old master is a guy called Ki Cooley, who's writing in th 1350, 01:05:31.734 --> 01:05:34.224 I think BC in Nineveh, in Babylon. 01:05:34.464 --> 01:05:37.884 And that's how we get our first exercises in flying changes and things like that. 01:05:37.884 --> 01:05:41.754 But it's very fragmented what we have from him because it was written 01:05:41.754 --> 01:05:43.134 on clay tablets that shattered. 01:05:43.134 --> 01:05:46.554 So people have pieced together what they can piece together, but the first 01:05:46.554 --> 01:05:49.044 full text that we know is Xenophon. 01:05:49.764 --> 01:05:51.344 And that's quite a lot later. 01:05:51.344 --> 01:05:51.734 Actually. 01:05:51.734 --> 01:05:58.574 It's 400 BC so it's thousands of years actually, after the whole riding dressy 01:05:58.874 --> 01:06:01.304 system, you know, got established. 01:06:01.544 --> 01:06:08.574 And he's learning it because he xenophon's Athenian, but he goes to Persia as a, 01:06:08.844 --> 01:06:13.344 as a mercenary, and he ends up on the losing side and he has to get home. 01:06:13.734 --> 01:06:17.804 And he learns all his horsemanship and all his cavalry stuff there, 01:06:17.924 --> 01:06:19.454 and he brings it back to Athens. 01:06:19.454 --> 01:06:20.234 He survives. 01:06:20.684 --> 01:06:28.514 He writes a book, and what he says is, if you really want to get control of yourself 01:06:28.754 --> 01:06:37.814 emotionally, particularly as a hotheaded young adult training horses to a high 01:06:37.814 --> 01:06:39.554 level is a really good way to do this. 01:06:39.884 --> 01:06:45.044 Because if you lose control of your emotions, you lose the horse. 01:06:45.794 --> 01:06:46.844 You could lose your life. 01:06:47.484 --> 01:06:50.424 And you certainly won't get the job done. 01:06:51.474 --> 01:06:57.804 And he emphasizes, even though he's a mercenary, he emphasizes kindness. 01:06:58.164 --> 01:06:58.794 So interesting. 01:06:59.364 --> 01:07:02.874 And he then goes on to become, okay. 01:07:02.874 --> 01:07:05.244 So there's other reasons why Zenon is famous. 01:07:05.244 --> 01:07:06.144 He's also the right. 01:07:06.814 --> 01:07:10.114 The, some people say he's the founder of Stoic philosophy. 01:07:10.324 --> 01:07:11.374 Other people say he's not. 01:07:11.374 --> 01:07:16.784 But let's say he's a philosopher and he's best mates with who his best friend is. 01:07:17.054 --> 01:07:18.374 Plato Who? 01:07:18.374 --> 01:07:23.174 And they're both students of who, they're both students of Socrates, you know, so 01:07:23.174 --> 01:07:27.734 you've got this dude coming out saying, lads, if you wanna like, get control 01:07:27.734 --> 01:07:31.274 of your, your shit you might wanna look at this kind of horse training thing. 01:07:31.544 --> 01:07:34.154 'cause it will force you to 01:07:36.524 --> 01:07:37.694 get out of your own arss. 01:07:38.234 --> 01:07:44.964 And then much later you have P Veel and to Veel in Renaissance 01:07:44.964 --> 01:07:49.104 Barak France writing about the same time that Shakespeare is writing. 01:07:49.704 --> 01:07:51.324 And he says to the French King. 01:07:52.194 --> 01:07:56.514 You know what Sya our aristocracy is out of control. 01:07:57.114 --> 01:08:02.464 Our young men just kill each other in deals, which means that the economics 01:08:02.464 --> 01:08:05.764 of the estates that they inherit just get fragmented and fragmented, 01:08:05.764 --> 01:08:07.084 and that's not good for anybody. 01:08:07.414 --> 01:08:09.634 And then if they survive that, what do they do? 01:08:09.634 --> 01:08:13.564 They go on to fight either religious wars or civil wars against the crown. 01:08:13.864 --> 01:08:19.474 You know, we are never going to rival Spain, our neighbor to the south where 01:08:19.474 --> 01:08:20.764 I happen to be sitting right now. 01:08:21.304 --> 01:08:21.604 Yeah. 01:08:21.634 --> 01:08:26.194 With all that money coming in from the Americas, unless we can get control 01:08:26.194 --> 01:08:33.484 of our ruling class, what I propose Siah, is that we set up four schools 01:08:33.694 --> 01:08:39.724 within France of horsemanship for young aristocrats to chill them the 01:08:39.724 --> 01:08:46.234 F out and get them to actually get away from their own egos a little bit. 01:08:46.924 --> 01:08:49.354 And the French king goes for it. 01:08:49.414 --> 01:08:49.474 Yeah. 01:08:50.194 --> 01:08:53.584 And that's why we have all of these French words. 01:08:53.584 --> 01:09:00.004 That's why we have dressage and pf and sage and, and trave and all these words. 01:09:00.004 --> 01:09:00.274 Right? 01:09:00.904 --> 01:09:04.084 It's because they kind of put a nationalistic stamp on it, even 01:09:04.084 --> 01:09:06.454 though the thing is actually invented like thousands of years 01:09:06.454 --> 01:09:08.914 earlier in where Asia meets Europe. 01:09:09.604 --> 01:09:13.084 So what's interesting with what you're saying is that there is a 01:09:13.084 --> 01:09:18.214 longstanding tradition of horsemanship and the humanities, which I think 01:09:18.214 --> 01:09:19.804 hasn't been looked at for a while. 01:09:20.234 --> 01:09:20.624 Yes. 01:09:20.714 --> 01:09:21.134 Right. 01:09:21.134 --> 01:09:25.184 And when you're dealing with like at-risk youth, gang youth, yes. 01:09:25.184 --> 01:09:25.694 People survive. 01:09:26.084 --> 01:09:30.644 The, the lady I talked about earlier, Joel Dunlap, square peg Foundation, 01:09:31.064 --> 01:09:35.934 big with autism, but where she cut her teeth was with runaway prostitutes from 01:09:35.934 --> 01:09:39.094 the Tenderloin in, in San Francisco. 01:09:39.424 --> 01:09:44.044 And dealing with these girls, bringing their gang fights into the. 01:09:45.064 --> 01:09:49.474 And she had to step in a couple of times when people were genuinely trying 01:09:49.474 --> 01:09:54.604 to kill each other and say, listen, we're trying to help a pony out here. 01:09:55.054 --> 01:09:58.744 Can we not, you know, look at something else. 01:09:58.744 --> 01:10:00.394 And people, and they did. 01:10:00.964 --> 01:10:04.294 So I'm, I'm wondering if that thing with Yeah. 01:10:04.294 --> 01:10:05.974 Horses and humans and the humanities. 01:10:07.174 --> 01:10:10.324 Have you got anything up your sleeve with that or are you just looking at it, or? 01:10:10.864 --> 01:10:11.104 Yeah, 01:10:11.164 --> 01:10:11.165 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:10:11.164 --> 01:10:15.274 well no, I love that whole concept about kindness because I feel like 01:10:15.274 --> 01:10:19.174 in this world right now, we're missing kindness and empathy. 01:10:19.504 --> 01:10:20.224 Rupert Isaacson: So true 01:10:20.614 --> 01:10:20.615 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:10:20.614 --> 01:10:21.604 in this country. 01:10:21.724 --> 01:10:26.794 Especially but I, I would love to do something and you know, that's 01:10:26.794 --> 01:10:29.644 why I'm like, when you asked me which research, I'm like, oh, I'd 01:10:29.644 --> 01:10:34.534 love to, you know, they just cut taking the Mustangs out of prison. 01:10:34.984 --> 01:10:35.404 Rupert Isaacson: Prison. 01:10:35.464 --> 01:10:36.664 I just heard this myself. 01:10:36.664 --> 01:10:36.754 Yeah. 01:10:36.754 --> 01:10:36.994 And 01:10:36.994 --> 01:10:36.995 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:10:36.994 --> 01:10:38.404 I'm so sad about that. 01:10:38.404 --> 01:10:40.984 'cause I would've loved to have research on that. 01:10:41.014 --> 01:10:41.944 I would love to have. 01:10:42.679 --> 01:10:46.229 Foster kids and, and horses. 01:10:46.229 --> 01:10:46.319 Mm-hmm. 01:10:46.889 --> 01:10:51.419 I, if I had a, a billion dollars, I'd set up a ranch right now and 01:10:51.779 --> 01:10:54.419 put, have a foster kid program. 01:10:54.419 --> 01:10:58.829 'cause those kids fall through the system and it's horrible. 01:10:58.834 --> 01:11:00.464 I, I think I'm wishing a 01:11:00.464 --> 01:11:01.649 Rupert Isaacson: billion dollars on you right now. 01:11:01.709 --> 01:11:02.949 Watch my head. 01:11:02.949 --> 01:11:02.959 Okay. 01:11:02.959 --> 01:11:03.149 Thank you. 01:11:03.149 --> 01:11:03.259 There it goes. 01:11:03.704 --> 01:11:03.705 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:11:03.704 --> 01:11:04.824 I So billion dollars 01:11:04.884 --> 01:11:05.384 Rupert Isaacson: for pebbles, 01:11:05.524 --> 01:11:05.525 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:11:05.524 --> 01:11:10.859 so we could put that, those kids on a ranch and have that 01:11:10.949 --> 01:11:12.389 environment to be able to out. 01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:12.629 We need 01:11:13.529 --> 01:11:15.689 Rupert Isaacson: 10 of those ranches in every state is 01:11:15.689 --> 01:11:15.690 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:11:15.689 --> 01:11:16.739 what we Oh my gosh. 01:11:16.739 --> 01:11:17.309 We do. 01:11:17.359 --> 01:11:22.609 You know, and it's, you know, going back to like, just the whole fact that people 01:11:22.729 --> 01:11:25.909 get involved with drugs and alcohol. 01:11:26.149 --> 01:11:29.839 Like if they just were at the barn with horses. 01:11:30.829 --> 01:11:32.389 It would just be a different world. 01:11:32.389 --> 01:11:32.869 What do you mean 01:11:32.869 --> 01:11:33.439 Rupert Isaacson: alcohol? 01:11:33.439 --> 01:11:35.054 Sorry, you go. 01:11:37.279 --> 01:11:37.724 But this is organic. 01:11:38.184 --> 01:11:38.185 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:11:38.184 --> 01:11:38.334 Yeah. 01:11:38.434 --> 01:11:40.924 But you know, it's just that, that purpose. 01:11:40.924 --> 01:11:44.434 But I do, there's so many different research studies that 01:11:44.434 --> 01:11:48.454 we could do, how horses help all different types of populations. 01:11:48.844 --> 01:11:53.704 But number one, I think we also need to go back to researching the horse. 01:11:54.154 --> 01:11:57.904 And I think behavior is one thing, looking at that and help. 01:11:58.474 --> 01:12:06.224 But also if you were looking at programs too, I think equine assisted 01:12:06.224 --> 01:12:11.084 learning, which right now is hardened. 01:12:11.489 --> 01:12:15.509 At least this country, because we can't decide on a definition. 01:12:15.839 --> 01:12:20.459 We don't know what exactly it's, is it coaching, is it education, 01:12:20.459 --> 01:12:22.049 is it this or is it that? 01:12:22.049 --> 01:12:22.949 Who's qualified? 01:12:22.949 --> 01:12:24.059 Who has the criteria? 01:12:24.569 --> 01:12:29.429 And I don't think there's a specific things that are kind 01:12:29.429 --> 01:12:31.079 of right, because education 01:12:31.169 --> 01:12:33.629 Rupert Isaacson: by its very definition is a very broad term, right? 01:12:34.109 --> 01:12:34.110 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:12:34.109 --> 01:12:35.759 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 01:12:36.689 --> 01:12:40.529 You know, so you know, at one, when I was at St. 01:12:40.529 --> 01:12:43.619 Andrew Andrew's University, we used to call it therapeutic riding. 01:12:43.619 --> 01:12:46.769 It was a degree in that, but I was like, no, we're gonna do horsemanship. 01:12:46.769 --> 01:12:52.739 'cause I want them to know all about horses, not just riding. 01:12:52.919 --> 01:12:54.779 It needs to be all encompassing. 01:12:55.259 --> 01:12:59.669 And I think part of, we're missing a little bit of that too with our 01:12:59.669 --> 01:13:01.649 current riding programs because. 01:13:02.339 --> 01:13:07.889 You know, we had to brush a horse, get him ready, unt attack 'em, take care of 'em. 01:13:08.219 --> 01:13:10.649 You got in trouble if you let sweat marks on 'em. 01:13:10.739 --> 01:13:12.959 Like you, you had to take care of your horse. 01:13:12.959 --> 01:13:13.019 Yeah. 01:13:13.289 --> 01:13:16.799 But now you just show up to the barn and you get on your horse, you do a 01:13:16.804 --> 01:13:18.449 LA lesson, and you're out of there. 01:13:18.659 --> 01:13:22.649 And I think we're missing that whole, you know, there's many 01:13:22.649 --> 01:13:24.809 articles about the barn, rats. 01:13:24.809 --> 01:13:25.679 You know, we just, 01:13:25.769 --> 01:13:25.949 Rupert Isaacson: yeah. 01:13:25.979 --> 01:13:25.980 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:13:25.979 --> 01:13:30.719 Used to hang, I used to hang out all day Saturday at the, at the barn. 01:13:30.719 --> 01:13:30.929 We, 01:13:30.989 --> 01:13:31.589 Rupert Isaacson: we all did. 01:13:31.704 --> 01:13:34.889 You know, you know what, what, what's so weird about that is that of course 01:13:34.889 --> 01:13:42.389 we've entered into a conversation, which probably needed to happen, of those of us 01:13:42.389 --> 01:13:44.699 who were barn rats sometimes got abused. 01:13:45.689 --> 01:13:53.369 However, I would say that when those situations came my way, I could 01:13:53.369 --> 01:13:58.109 discern better in a barn situation. 01:13:59.159 --> 01:14:05.219 Than I could in say, a school situation or a choir situation or other things 01:14:05.219 --> 01:14:09.029 that I would, institutions that I was put into, because the horse 01:14:09.449 --> 01:14:11.429 always gave one perspective, right? 01:14:11.849 --> 01:14:15.059 The horse, like dogs or whatever, you know, would very quickly pick 01:14:15.059 --> 01:14:16.229 up on if things were not cool. 01:14:17.009 --> 01:14:18.359 Um mm-hmm. 01:14:18.599 --> 01:14:23.009 And if one looked to one's horse, if one looked to one's dog, one could often 01:14:23.009 --> 01:14:29.949 have a great barometer as a vulnerable tween that maybe this is not so cool. 01:14:30.639 --> 01:14:35.049 Whereas in say, choir or rugby club or wherever, there might 01:14:35.049 --> 01:14:37.239 not have been that barometer. 01:14:38.019 --> 01:14:40.949 Animal intelligence animal emotional intelligence. 01:14:40.954 --> 01:14:41.264 Mm-hmm. 01:14:41.344 --> 01:14:45.959 I think, you know, what I was trying to get to there with Zenon and Pelle and 01:14:45.959 --> 01:14:49.349 these guys was they're really talking about emotional intelligence, right? 01:14:49.349 --> 01:14:49.949 They're saying, 01:14:50.099 --> 01:14:50.100 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:14:50.099 --> 01:14:50.489 yeah, 01:14:50.789 --> 01:14:51.209 Rupert Isaacson: right. 01:14:54.269 --> 01:14:58.079 What I would be very excited to see with horses and humans Research 01:14:58.079 --> 01:15:04.619 Foundation is ex explorations into emotional intelligence. 01:15:05.399 --> 01:15:05.609 Mm. 01:15:05.609 --> 01:15:07.379 Human and horse. 01:15:08.849 --> 01:15:12.719 Because I do think that, well, I don't think we, I think you and I both 01:15:12.719 --> 01:15:15.299 know, and I think most of the people we're preaching to the choir here. 01:15:15.299 --> 01:15:20.699 I think most, most of the viewers and, and listeners know that a lot 01:15:20.699 --> 01:15:27.359 of our emotional intelligence we got from horses and dogs mm-hmm. 01:15:27.579 --> 01:15:31.329 And perhaps wildlife as well, if we were lucky enough to be around those. 01:15:31.329 --> 01:15:31.389 Yeah. 01:15:31.779 --> 01:15:37.869 When it's just humans, it's a tall order because you don't have that neutral 01:15:38.859 --> 01:15:41.169 what's, what's the word, dispassionate. 01:15:41.889 --> 01:15:45.039 Not looking at coming down in favor of one or the other. 01:15:45.549 --> 01:15:50.049 Emotionally, horses are so amazing that way because we've 01:15:50.049 --> 01:15:57.039 used them to commit acts of great sociopathic atrocity on each other. 01:15:57.309 --> 01:16:00.309 Conquest happened on the back of a horse ships as well. 01:16:00.699 --> 01:16:01.029 Yeah. 01:16:01.029 --> 01:16:04.639 You know, but the horse didn't go out there saying, you know what I want to do? 01:16:04.939 --> 01:16:06.379 I want kill everybody. 01:16:06.799 --> 01:16:10.139 These monkeys from the Pacific to the Mediterranean. 01:16:10.139 --> 01:16:13.989 Let's say you're in Mongolia, you know, in the 14th century under, you know, Genghis 01:16:13.989 --> 01:16:15.849 Kahan or something, you know, the horse. 01:16:16.179 --> 01:16:17.439 They're like, I don't know. 01:16:17.439 --> 01:16:20.169 No, this, this monkey on top and you know, I'm supposed to go there 01:16:20.169 --> 01:16:21.189 and I'm supposed to go there. 01:16:22.149 --> 01:16:30.159 They lend you their power, but you could use the horse to heal in the same way 01:16:30.159 --> 01:16:31.989 that you can use the horse to harm. 01:16:32.919 --> 01:16:34.569 The horse is then innocent in that. 01:16:35.619 --> 01:16:39.939 However, we, I think we all know which one the horse would prefer, you know? 01:16:39.989 --> 01:16:42.989 You know, if, I think if you interviewed a horse and like put the microphones at, 01:16:43.139 --> 01:16:49.149 so, equ Equ would you, would you rather go into a storm of Meek Cleavers and, 01:16:49.149 --> 01:16:52.749 and admittedly you love your human and you are innu to this and you're brave. 01:16:53.019 --> 01:16:54.399 Would you rather do that? 01:16:54.759 --> 01:16:58.929 Or would you rather help that kid over there? 01:16:58.929 --> 01:16:59.679 Have a nice time? 01:17:00.609 --> 01:17:00.610 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:17:00.609 --> 01:17:01.479 Yeah, yeah. 01:17:01.599 --> 01:17:03.039 Rupert Isaacson: I think we, I think we know what they'd say. 01:17:03.849 --> 01:17:03.850 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:17:03.849 --> 01:17:04.149 Yeah. 01:17:04.599 --> 01:17:04.719 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:17:04.749 --> 01:17:04.929 Or 01:17:04.929 --> 01:17:04.930 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:17:04.929 --> 01:17:05.829 go eat grass. 01:17:06.339 --> 01:17:08.109 Maybe they don't even wanna be with a human. 01:17:08.109 --> 01:17:09.274 Rupert Isaacson: Maybe a bit of both, you know? 01:17:09.274 --> 01:17:09.554 Yeah. 01:17:10.054 --> 01:17:15.839 You know, I, I think back to my son, you know, Rowan, when he was still nonverbal 01:17:16.259 --> 01:17:22.649 and he would learn about life by sitting very, very, very close to horses and goats 01:17:24.059 --> 01:17:25.439 because that's what we happened to have. 01:17:25.979 --> 01:17:26.939 And watching the meat. 01:17:28.424 --> 01:17:30.344 And commenting on how they eat. 01:17:31.064 --> 01:17:37.514 And like he would get down on his haunches and really look and really comment on 01:17:37.664 --> 01:17:43.574 the, the noises and the rhythm and why did they eat that thing, but not that thing. 01:17:43.574 --> 01:17:46.034 And you know, the detail of it. 01:17:46.664 --> 01:17:50.234 So as you say, the horse can just graze and he's still gonna heal us. 01:17:50.804 --> 01:17:50.805 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:17:50.804 --> 01:17:50.954 Mm-hmm. 01:17:52.784 --> 01:17:53.204 Yeah. 01:17:53.324 --> 01:17:54.254 And open your mind. 01:17:56.204 --> 01:17:57.674 It's a whole new experience. 01:17:58.004 --> 01:17:58.664 Rupert Isaacson: A hundred percent. 01:17:58.664 --> 01:17:59.294 Mm-hmm. 01:18:00.434 --> 01:18:00.764 Alright. 01:18:00.764 --> 01:18:00.824 Wow. 01:18:00.854 --> 01:18:03.554 So listen, pebbles, how do people contact you? 01:18:03.764 --> 01:18:04.514 How do people, how. 01:18:05.189 --> 01:18:08.039 Have the honor of being turned down by you when they, when 01:18:08.039 --> 01:18:09.959 they submit their research. 01:18:10.259 --> 01:18:12.954 Talk us through what, what the process is. 01:18:12.954 --> 01:18:16.554 I know you've got big grants, little grants, innovative grants and so on. 01:18:16.854 --> 01:18:20.484 So people obviously are listening to this and they're gonna think, 01:18:20.514 --> 01:18:22.104 okay, I'd like to put in a Grant. 01:18:22.104 --> 01:18:24.564 Pebbles and Horses and Humans Research Foundation. 01:18:24.834 --> 01:18:25.674 How do they do it? 01:18:25.764 --> 01:18:26.694 Where should they do it? 01:18:26.754 --> 01:18:28.014 What's, what's the mechanism? 01:18:28.614 --> 01:18:28.615 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:18:28.614 --> 01:18:35.194 Okay, so typically we have our call for our big grant in February or March, and 01:18:35.194 --> 01:18:37.264 it's due in the middle of the summer. 01:18:37.289 --> 01:18:37.579 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:18:37.754 --> 01:18:37.755 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:18:37.754 --> 01:18:43.364 And the reason being is most of our scientific advisors are 01:18:43.464 --> 01:18:44.874 involved in higher education. 01:18:44.874 --> 01:18:48.024 So they're off, so they have time to evaluate those grants. 01:18:48.494 --> 01:18:53.834 And then we do our innovative grant call early summer around June. 01:18:54.374 --> 01:18:56.144 Sorry, I'm using terms that. 01:18:56.654 --> 01:18:58.424 Not everybody's on the same season. 01:18:58.674 --> 01:19:04.344 So it's in June or July, and it's usually due in December. 01:19:04.734 --> 01:19:04.824 Okay. 01:19:04.824 --> 01:19:09.084 And because it's so small, it's a smaller one, it's easier for them to go through. 01:19:09.544 --> 01:19:17.314 And so for example, I'm almost ready to award our $150 grant. 01:19:17.344 --> 01:19:18.724 We have the paperwork signed. 01:19:19.054 --> 01:19:22.294 We're just waiting on them to get their IRB completed. 01:19:22.994 --> 01:19:23.014 Rupert Isaacson: What's that? 01:19:23.014 --> 01:19:23.684 What's an IRB? 01:19:24.374 --> 01:19:24.375 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:19:24.374 --> 01:19:27.634 It's, it's basically it's kind of an ethical board. 01:19:28.054 --> 01:19:34.564 For anybody who's doing research needs to get their grant approved and make 01:19:34.564 --> 01:19:36.124 sure that you're not doing anything. 01:19:36.694 --> 01:19:36.814 Rupert Isaacson: Ah, right. 01:19:36.814 --> 01:19:36.874 The 01:19:36.874 --> 01:19:36.875 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:19:36.874 --> 01:19:37.459 ethics, unical ethics. 01:19:37.504 --> 01:19:37.924 Yeah. 01:19:38.434 --> 01:19:39.514 On people. 01:19:39.754 --> 01:19:42.874 And then there's the iacuc, which is all about the animals. 01:19:43.174 --> 01:19:46.204 So they're just ethic boards for research. 01:19:46.474 --> 01:19:48.634 Rupert Isaacson: So lads, listening to this, watching this, you're gonna 01:19:48.634 --> 01:19:49.834 have to jump through some hoops. 01:19:49.894 --> 01:19:50.314 Sorry. 01:19:50.494 --> 01:19:50.734 Okay. 01:19:50.824 --> 01:19:50.825 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:19:50.824 --> 01:19:51.874 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:19:51.964 --> 01:19:56.624 And on our website, horses and humans.org 01:19:56.964 --> 01:19:59.274 under the research tab, we have the grants. 01:19:59.604 --> 01:20:01.654 We have how to fill it out. 01:20:01.744 --> 01:20:05.314 We have a video that explains how to fill it out. 01:20:05.624 --> 01:20:08.054 All of that information is right there for you. 01:20:08.394 --> 01:20:18.784 And then the way you contact me is my email address is ceo@horsesandhumans.org. 01:20:19.504 --> 01:20:22.894 Rupert Isaacson: D at horses and humans dot. 01:20:23.704 --> 01:20:24.034 Org. 01:20:24.159 --> 01:20:24.160 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:20:24.159 --> 01:20:24.579 Mm-hmm. 01:20:25.654 --> 01:20:26.164 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:20:27.214 --> 01:20:27.424 Yeah. 01:20:27.634 --> 01:20:28.324 Are you ready lads? 01:20:28.324 --> 01:20:29.554 Submit your proposals. 01:20:29.794 --> 01:20:30.454 Sorry. 01:20:30.504 --> 01:20:33.054 Pebbles, you might get a few more now after this podcast. 01:20:33.354 --> 01:20:33.355 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:20:33.354 --> 01:20:34.554 That, that's great. 01:20:34.554 --> 01:20:37.014 We, we want great applications. 01:20:37.014 --> 01:20:41.154 We really want research that's gonna be groundbreaking. 01:20:41.544 --> 01:20:45.344 You know, we're all about rigorous research and making sure that 01:20:45.344 --> 01:20:48.404 we like, build upon each other. 01:20:48.494 --> 01:20:51.824 I mean, if you look at our research and how many times it's been cited, 01:20:52.184 --> 01:20:55.544 that's purpose of good research is so that it's built upon. 01:20:55.844 --> 01:21:02.204 But I don't wanna say to, I think that research that doesn't really, it's 01:21:02.204 --> 01:21:08.654 not, I don't wanna say fail because it's really difficult to say fail. 01:21:08.654 --> 01:21:10.904 It's really that you learn not to do this. 01:21:10.904 --> 01:21:12.644 But problem is we don't, one thing builds 01:21:12.644 --> 01:21:13.454 Rupert Isaacson: upon another thing. 01:21:13.484 --> 01:21:13.904 Yeah, 01:21:13.904 --> 01:21:13.905 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:21:13.904 --> 01:21:13.914 yeah. 01:21:13.964 --> 01:21:14.609 But we don't discuss, we 01:21:14.614 --> 01:21:15.849 Rupert Isaacson: climb up on the bodies of our dead. 01:21:16.329 --> 01:21:16.330 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:21:16.329 --> 01:21:16.964 Yeah, yeah. 01:21:17.354 --> 01:21:19.604 But we don't discuss things that don't work. 01:21:20.114 --> 01:21:24.824 Why don't we, so somebody else, somebody, somebody else doesn't do that. 01:21:25.064 --> 01:21:28.304 Like, why don't we talk about things that we could improve? 01:21:28.304 --> 01:21:32.474 Or if this doesn't work, let me share it with you, Ruth, so you don't do this. 01:21:32.564 --> 01:21:32.654 Mm-hmm. 01:21:32.654 --> 01:21:34.754 Because I went down this path and it was wrong. 01:21:35.024 --> 01:21:41.744 So it, I, that's one of my, also, one of our projects that we hope to have 01:21:41.744 --> 01:21:44.474 is someplace that we could have like a 01:21:44.594 --> 01:21:46.574 Rupert Isaacson: virtual, you know, what I would love to see with that, 01:21:46.934 --> 01:21:51.464 which is a path that we all, I think we have all gone down in the horse world 01:21:51.764 --> 01:21:54.944 and it's been wrong, is factionalism. 01:21:54.944 --> 01:21:56.444 Mm-hmm. 01:21:56.684 --> 01:21:59.564 Anybody listening to this or watching this knows that, 01:22:02.714 --> 01:22:06.524 oh, there are certain things that hate horse boy. 01:22:07.634 --> 01:22:13.024 And there are, there are hostilities that, because we're dealing with humans 01:22:13.024 --> 01:22:14.104 here, we're dealing with monkeys. 01:22:15.784 --> 01:22:17.494 I don't think that should be rewarded. 01:22:19.354 --> 01:22:23.284 Now, that's an easy thing to say because how do you judge? 01:22:23.374 --> 01:22:24.184 How do you discern? 01:22:26.884 --> 01:22:34.864 But I do think that when the only way one can discern is if there 01:22:34.864 --> 01:22:41.884 seems to be an attempt to shut out a certain population or a certain group. 01:22:43.294 --> 01:22:45.124 For example, there are 01:22:47.374 --> 01:22:52.954 entities within the therapeutic writing community that I feel could be better. 01:22:52.954 --> 01:22:53.044 Mm-hmm. 01:22:54.274 --> 01:22:56.584 And that I've certainly come under attack from. 01:22:57.304 --> 01:22:57.544 Yeah. 01:22:58.144 --> 01:23:02.884 I wouldn't wish them to be knocked out of the game because 01:23:02.884 --> 01:23:04.354 I do see a bigger picture here. 01:23:05.599 --> 01:23:09.349 I know that some of the people, some of the practitioners, many of 01:23:09.349 --> 01:23:14.629 the practitioners who've come up under those, let's say hostile to 01:23:15.139 --> 01:23:21.679 me entities have still actually been able to engage in really meaningful 01:23:21.679 --> 01:23:28.459 dialogue with us, and we've been able to advance our whole field that way. 01:23:29.209 --> 01:23:31.339 So it's really about the advancing of the field. 01:23:31.389 --> 01:23:36.939 One of the things that I, I feel is that we'll all be dead, you know, relatively 01:23:36.939 --> 01:23:39.189 soon actually, on the scale of things. 01:23:39.189 --> 01:23:44.679 I mean, if you look at, you know, the Cretaceous era, that's relatively recent. 01:23:44.889 --> 01:23:49.179 If you look at the Baroque era, that's like really recent. 01:23:49.539 --> 01:23:52.899 If you look at World War ii, that's like yesterday. 01:23:53.439 --> 01:23:53.679 Yeah. 01:23:54.309 --> 01:23:55.149 So 01:23:57.699 --> 01:24:00.159 trying to be right isn't. 01:24:00.849 --> 01:24:01.989 The point here, right? 01:24:02.079 --> 01:24:06.609 The, the, the, the point is trying to advance the field. 01:24:07.389 --> 01:24:10.239 So what I would love to see is 01:24:13.279 --> 01:24:17.079 cross-culTurbeville, cross-disciplinary, yeah. 01:24:17.349 --> 01:24:22.569 Stuff being rewarded where people start to think, ah, instead of thinking 01:24:22.569 --> 01:24:27.039 about scarcity, instead of think people thinking about, oh, you know, if I 01:24:27.039 --> 01:24:31.359 get, I'm, I'm this organization and, you know, if I get a grant from horses 01:24:31.359 --> 01:24:33.189 and humans, then I'm legitimized. 01:24:33.189 --> 01:24:35.979 And that like delegitimizes those people over there. 01:24:36.489 --> 01:24:43.059 If there was always a cross-culTurbeville piece, a 01:24:47.319 --> 01:24:52.179 interdisciplinary piece required in every grant application. 01:24:52.869 --> 01:24:54.219 Like, who are you working with? 01:24:54.639 --> 01:24:59.889 Who are you working with that might even have a slightly opposing vision to you? 01:25:00.609 --> 01:25:04.329 And what are you doing with those people to advance the field? 01:25:04.899 --> 01:25:06.579 Then we know the field will accelerate. 01:25:06.579 --> 01:25:06.879 Right. 01:25:07.209 --> 01:25:09.309 But if we stay within our own silos, 01:25:10.239 --> 01:25:10.240 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:25:10.239 --> 01:25:12.364 eh, eh, eh. 01:25:13.689 --> 01:25:14.199 Yeah. 01:25:15.909 --> 01:25:20.349 That's what we're hoping for is that we have lots of people from 01:25:20.349 --> 01:25:22.209 different departments working together. 01:25:22.214 --> 01:25:22.314 Mm-hmm. 01:25:25.269 --> 01:25:28.209 Rupert Isaacson: Well, I'll certainly do my damnedest to help that along. 01:25:28.629 --> 01:25:28.630 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:25:28.629 --> 01:25:29.229 Well, thank you. 01:25:29.649 --> 01:25:29.859 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, I 01:25:29.859 --> 01:25:29.860 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:25:29.859 --> 01:25:30.609 appreciate that. 01:25:31.869 --> 01:25:35.349 Rupert Isaacson: And just for the record, anyone who's listening to this, even 01:25:35.349 --> 01:25:44.134 those entities that have, you know, thrown a bit of poo at us, or scarcity. 01:25:44.134 --> 01:25:47.704 I, you know, like if these people get money, then I won't get ID money. 01:25:50.554 --> 01:25:52.474 But I think we just gotta move beyond that. 01:25:52.594 --> 01:25:54.484 We gotta move beyond that, you know? 01:25:54.484 --> 01:26:02.074 So I, I will gladly back any study coming in from people that might 01:26:02.074 --> 01:26:08.974 have taken a not so sympathetic view to us, because how does it matter? 01:26:09.094 --> 01:26:09.454 You know? 01:26:09.454 --> 01:26:11.104 We, we just need to advance the field. 01:26:12.094 --> 01:26:12.095 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:26:12.094 --> 01:26:12.484 Right. 01:26:12.844 --> 01:26:13.354 Exactly. 01:26:15.124 --> 01:26:15.484 Rupert Isaacson: Good. 01:26:16.624 --> 01:26:17.014 All right. 01:26:17.284 --> 01:26:19.414 So Pebbles, thank you. 01:26:19.414 --> 01:26:19.804 Thank you. 01:26:19.804 --> 01:26:20.884 Thank you for coming on. 01:26:21.634 --> 01:26:21.635 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:26:21.634 --> 01:26:22.414 Well, thank you. 01:26:22.414 --> 01:26:25.384 It's so much fun talking with you when you do it more often. 01:26:25.699 --> 01:26:26.629 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, I'd love to. 01:26:27.199 --> 01:26:28.129 Here's a suggestion. 01:26:28.399 --> 01:26:32.509 Why don't we do after this podcast, a little YouTube series, 01:26:32.989 --> 01:26:32.990 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:26:32.989 --> 01:26:33.349 Ooh. 01:26:33.499 --> 01:26:35.779 Rupert Isaacson: Where we just kind of get to dream and explore. 01:26:36.829 --> 01:26:36.830 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:26:36.829 --> 01:26:37.699 Ooh, that'd be exciting. 01:26:37.759 --> 01:26:38.119 Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm. 01:26:38.544 --> 01:26:38.545 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:26:38.544 --> 01:26:39.109 I like it. 01:26:39.379 --> 01:26:40.579 Rupert Isaacson: I like dreaming and exploring. 01:26:41.149 --> 01:26:41.150 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:26:41.149 --> 01:26:41.479 Yeah. 01:26:41.869 --> 01:26:43.309 Rupert Isaacson: It's my favorite thing, actually. 01:26:44.824 --> 01:26:44.825 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:26:44.824 --> 01:26:45.379 I like it. 01:26:45.694 --> 01:26:45.984 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:26:46.519 --> 01:26:46.909 All right. 01:26:46.909 --> 01:26:47.209 We'll do it. 01:26:47.269 --> 01:26:47.479 20. 01:26:47.479 --> 01:26:48.379 So standby lads. 01:26:48.379 --> 01:26:49.489 We're gonna do this with Pebbles. 01:26:49.819 --> 01:26:49.820 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:26:49.819 --> 01:26:50.089 Yeah. 01:26:50.089 --> 01:26:51.289 2026 goals. 01:26:51.739 --> 01:26:52.099 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:26:52.519 --> 01:26:56.119 Because Pebbles, I'm pointing at her here 'cause she's to the right of me, but I, I 01:26:56.119 --> 01:26:59.119 don't know if she's there on your screen. 01:26:59.389 --> 01:27:00.739 She might be like there or there. 01:27:01.459 --> 01:27:02.359 She's very cool. 01:27:03.079 --> 01:27:08.989 I was just at a, we were both at a an event in Mon Missoula, 01:27:08.989 --> 01:27:11.459 Montana the Quis Film Festival. 01:27:11.459 --> 01:27:17.689 And I would say that pebbles was one of the unifying. 01:27:18.244 --> 01:27:21.844 Influences that and this we gotta have. 01:27:22.354 --> 01:27:22.954 So thank you. 01:27:23.169 --> 01:27:23.529 I appreciate 01:27:23.529 --> 01:27:23.530 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:27:23.529 --> 01:27:23.609 that 01:27:23.914 --> 01:27:24.574 Rupert Isaacson: much respect. 01:27:24.784 --> 01:27:25.684 Hat's coming off. 01:27:25.924 --> 01:27:25.925 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:27:25.924 --> 01:27:26.134 Yeah. 01:27:26.224 --> 01:27:26.614 Thank you. 01:27:26.614 --> 01:27:27.334 I appreciate that. 01:27:27.484 --> 01:27:27.754 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:27:28.204 --> 01:27:28.444 Yeah, 01:27:29.284 --> 01:27:29.285 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:27:29.284 --> 01:27:32.254 because we all need to work together to make this place a better place. 01:27:32.734 --> 01:27:33.184 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:27:33.484 --> 01:27:34.834 And if we don't, what are we doing? 01:27:34.834 --> 01:27:35.614 Like why are we even here? 01:27:35.794 --> 01:27:35.944 Yeah. 01:27:36.244 --> 01:27:38.914 Why don't we just go off and become like divorce lawyers or something. 01:27:38.914 --> 01:27:45.424 I mean like why put our energy into something like this 01:27:47.644 --> 01:27:49.084 if we just wanna fight with each other? 01:27:49.804 --> 01:27:49.805 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:27:49.804 --> 01:27:50.104 Yeah. 01:27:50.104 --> 01:27:50.164 Yeah. 01:27:51.364 --> 01:27:51.784 All right. 01:27:52.174 --> 01:27:52.534 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:27:52.954 --> 01:27:52.955 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:27:52.954 --> 01:27:53.614 Well thank you. 01:27:53.944 --> 01:27:55.174 Rupert Isaacson: So till the next time. 01:27:56.704 --> 01:27:57.154 Jarrah raaf. 01:27:58.364 --> 01:27:59.564 Thank you so much. 01:27:59.894 --> 01:28:00.914 One last time. 01:28:00.914 --> 01:28:03.044 The website and your contact. 01:28:04.124 --> 01:28:04.125 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:28:04.124 --> 01:28:10.664 It's Horses and Humans Research Foundation, and then my email 01:28:10.664 --> 01:28:14.924 is C at horses and humans. 01:28:16.389 --> 01:28:17.294 Rupert Isaacson: Okay, perfect. 01:28:17.444 --> 01:28:21.524 So get your grant applications in lads, and let's see what you got. 01:28:22.154 --> 01:28:22.155 Dr. Pebbles Turbeville: 01:28:22.154 --> 01:28:26.864 And attend one of our webinars and check out our YouTube channel because we 01:28:26.864 --> 01:28:28.934 have lots of educational content there. 01:28:29.354 --> 01:28:30.074 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 01:28:31.064 --> 01:28:31.544 Okay. 01:28:31.634 --> 01:28:31.999 We'll see you there. 01:28:32.327 --> 01:28:35.447 I hope you enjoyed today's conversation as much as I did. 01:28:35.987 --> 01:28:40.887 If you like what we're doing here, please do like, subscribe, tell a friend. 01:28:40.897 --> 01:28:45.067 It so helps us to get this valuable work done and the message of 01:28:45.067 --> 01:28:46.947 Equine Assisted Stuff out there. 01:28:47.097 --> 01:28:50.177 And if you're interested in more conversations, you might want to check 01:28:50.187 --> 01:28:52.867 out I'll live free ride free podcast. 01:28:53.257 --> 01:28:58.017 And if you'd like to support the podcasts, please go to rupertisakson. 01:28:58.067 --> 01:29:00.557 com and click on the Patreon link. 01:29:01.257 --> 01:29:04.777 If you're a professional in the equine 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