WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:02.040 --> 00:00:03.719 Colin: Hey CJ, we're back. 00:00:04.010 --> 00:00:05.220 Welcome to Build Learn. 00:00:05.710 --> 00:00:07.210 How was how was Italy? 00:00:08.280 --> 00:00:10.419 CJ: Oh my gosh, Italy was amazing. 00:00:10.499 --> 00:00:15.909 It was my first time traveling in Europe, and we very light, and we 00:00:15.909 --> 00:00:23.527 had the four of my crew, so My kids and my spouse, but also we went 00:00:23.787 --> 00:00:26.587 with my parents and also a couple of friends that we like to travel with. 00:00:26.587 --> 00:00:31.917 So it was like eight of us and we did six cities in 10 days tons and 00:00:31.917 --> 00:00:35.977 tons of like tours and activities and everything was like insanely jam 00:00:35.977 --> 00:00:39.877 packed with the goal of just kind of sampling and getting a feel for. 00:00:40.177 --> 00:00:43.677 different parts of Italy and, and also just like a first 00:00:43.687 --> 00:00:46.227 time Europe travel experience. 00:00:46.237 --> 00:00:49.297 So we tried lots of different, lots of different things. 00:00:49.297 --> 00:00:53.247 We stayed in hotels, we stayed in Airbnbs, we like did the train, 00:00:53.247 --> 00:00:55.907 we did boating around Venice. 00:00:55.907 --> 00:01:00.577 We did some car stuff and It was amazing. 00:01:00.587 --> 00:01:05.277 It was so good to just like disconnect and eat some amazing food and see 00:01:05.277 --> 00:01:10.047 some really, really cool old things and get the kids starting to speak 00:01:10.047 --> 00:01:14.547 a little bit of Italian, just like practicing, experiencing other cultures. 00:01:14.547 --> 00:01:16.257 And yeah, it was awesome. 00:01:16.327 --> 00:01:16.957 It was awesome. 00:01:17.507 --> 00:01:22.407 But yeah, there, there was like a lot of interesting things that I found convenient 00:01:22.407 --> 00:01:24.707 tech wise that I did not realize. 00:01:24.737 --> 00:01:28.307 And I think that in hindsight, I probably would have traveled much sooner had 00:01:28.307 --> 00:01:31.757 I known how easy it is to travel now. 00:01:31.892 --> 00:01:32.332 Colin: Mm hmm. 00:01:32.877 --> 00:01:34.577 CJ: We went, there was Apple Pay. 00:01:34.667 --> 00:01:36.807 So you could just like tap your phone anywhere. 00:01:37.047 --> 00:01:40.537 You don't, like, we got Euros and we were giving people tips 00:01:40.537 --> 00:01:42.947 with like Euros and we used it. 00:01:43.167 --> 00:01:45.587 We had to use it for a couple of bathrooms, like public bathrooms. 00:01:45.617 --> 00:01:47.417 But other than that, like nothing was cash. 00:01:47.437 --> 00:01:49.427 Everything was just like, you know. 00:01:49.917 --> 00:01:53.087 You know, double click the side of your phone and pay for whatever it 00:01:53.097 --> 00:01:58.167 was, whether it's like a breakfast or getting on the bus or you know we 00:01:58.167 --> 00:02:02.337 went to, I don't know, do you know Warhammer figurine, like the minifig. 00:02:02.397 --> 00:02:02.727 Okay. 00:02:03.047 --> 00:02:08.047 So there was like the, the, the like first Warhammer store ever in Rome. 00:02:08.507 --> 00:02:13.697 And we went in there and Grayson picked out a bunch of like paints that he wanted 00:02:13.697 --> 00:02:15.457 to do and some new glues and stuff. 00:02:15.457 --> 00:02:18.107 And so You just like strolling down the street, you pop into some 00:02:18.107 --> 00:02:21.257 shop and like, you know, you're able to Apple pay with everything. 00:02:21.257 --> 00:02:22.417 So that was awesome. 00:02:22.527 --> 00:02:23.237 That was awesome. 00:02:23.727 --> 00:02:26.297 Colin: It's not Rome, but next time you guys are in Reno, there 00:02:26.297 --> 00:02:28.297 is a Warhammer store at Summit. 00:02:29.307 --> 00:02:29.897 CJ: Whoa. 00:02:29.917 --> 00:02:30.317 Nice. 00:02:30.397 --> 00:02:31.567 Colin: it's been there for a long time. 00:02:31.567 --> 00:02:36.757 I'm always surprised that we're able to support a store that niche, but very cool. 00:02:36.807 --> 00:02:41.637 Yeah, Apple Pay, huge I mean, Europe and Canada have always been ahead of us in 00:02:41.637 --> 00:02:45.837 terms of like, you know chip and pin and all that stuff came from those places 00:02:45.837 --> 00:02:50.017 where it was like, it's foreign to even give someone a card and they disappear 00:02:50.017 --> 00:02:51.397 with it and they come back with it. 00:02:51.397 --> 00:02:53.777 It's like, no one, the waiter's like, what are you doing? 00:02:53.777 --> 00:02:54.557 Give me your card. 00:02:54.557 --> 00:02:56.567 Like just tap this thing and be done. 00:02:57.007 --> 00:02:59.467 And then obviously like tipping culture is very different too. 00:02:59.737 --> 00:03:03.547 It's nice to have euros and things for tips for like service things that. 00:03:03.742 --> 00:03:07.052 You know, probably still are not necessarily like expected because 00:03:07.052 --> 00:03:10.112 people are getting paid, but they should get paid without tips. 00:03:10.152 --> 00:03:14.772 But and they have social, you know, social safety net and all that stuff 00:03:14.772 --> 00:03:16.502 with insurance and all this other stuff. 00:03:16.942 --> 00:03:19.662 But it's, you know, appreciated if someone's, you know, taking 00:03:19.662 --> 00:03:22.212 your bags or, you know, doing something for you on a tour. 00:03:22.622 --> 00:03:27.572 And then yeah, you found the bathrooms that do require coins, which I mean, 00:03:27.572 --> 00:03:31.552 there are a lot of places that I wish we had more bathrooms that you could use. 00:03:31.552 --> 00:03:34.872 And I think because our bathrooms are free and they're usually destroyed, 00:03:34.872 --> 00:03:38.032 like they see there aren't available to the public or they're just not 00:03:38.082 --> 00:03:39.962 created or not put out into the world. 00:03:39.962 --> 00:03:43.742 And then there's no like revenue for taking care of them either. 00:03:43.782 --> 00:03:46.832 And yeah, they're living in the future over in Europe. 00:03:48.122 --> 00:03:48.322 CJ: Yeah. 00:03:48.322 --> 00:03:51.982 There was a lot of things where it definitely felt like business ideas. 00:03:52.012 --> 00:03:52.242 Okay. 00:03:52.242 --> 00:03:55.182 So here's like two business ideas that I came away with that are like I don't 00:03:55.182 --> 00:03:57.882 know, probably European only one is yeah. 00:03:57.882 --> 00:03:58.672 Paid bathroom. 00:03:59.262 --> 00:04:01.282 And the other one was a paid elevator. 00:04:01.782 --> 00:04:06.682 So we went to this town on the, on the coast called Sorrento, and it's 00:04:07.052 --> 00:04:10.662 like all these little villages are situated on these like massive cliffs. 00:04:11.062 --> 00:04:13.842 So the way that I sort of thought about it is like very much like 00:04:13.842 --> 00:04:17.082 Big Sur, like you're driving down highway one on the west coast of 00:04:17.082 --> 00:04:20.962 California, and there's little, those little towns where you'll see like 00:04:20.962 --> 00:04:22.462 a house on like this massive cliff. 00:04:22.902 --> 00:04:25.642 And so there was an elevator where you had to pay like a euro 00:04:25.672 --> 00:04:30.692 20 or something to go one way it would take you down to the beach. 00:04:31.052 --> 00:04:34.112 And I was like, Oh my gosh, like what a great business idea. 00:04:34.112 --> 00:04:36.802 You know, you're just like set up an elevator with apple pay 00:04:37.162 --> 00:04:39.682 like on one of these like crazy cliff sides in California. 00:04:39.992 --> 00:04:44.572 So totally impractical, probably really hard to set up, but 00:04:45.002 --> 00:04:47.832 Colin: I have to wonder how much of that is, I mean, they talk 00:04:47.842 --> 00:04:51.362 about this with tolls and stuff is that it changes people's behavior. 00:04:51.362 --> 00:04:55.162 And so like for someone who needs it, one, it's not great. 00:04:55.202 --> 00:04:59.192 There probably is like a, if you're, I have a disability, you probably 00:04:59.232 --> 00:05:00.592 get to skip the fee or something. 00:05:00.592 --> 00:05:02.252 I bet I would not be surprised, but. 00:05:03.087 --> 00:05:06.167 If you, it will cause more people to reconsider, like, do 00:05:06.167 --> 00:05:07.997 I walk or do I use the thing? 00:05:07.997 --> 00:05:10.797 And if you're using the thing, you're paying for the thing so you can 00:05:10.797 --> 00:05:12.457 maintain the thing, which is nice. 00:05:12.977 --> 00:05:13.297 Right. 00:05:13.317 --> 00:05:17.307 Whereas like in America, even for roads, like there's a tax and gas, 00:05:17.687 --> 00:05:20.877 because ideally the more gas you're using, the more you're driving, the 00:05:20.877 --> 00:05:22.637 more you're doing things to the road. 00:05:22.637 --> 00:05:25.037 So helps to have that built in. 00:05:25.177 --> 00:05:27.847 So, so you're gonna, you're going to be an elevator tycoon. 00:05:27.847 --> 00:05:29.947 Okay. 00:05:30.127 --> 00:05:31.937 CJ: a, I was like, Oh man, this is a genius business. 00:05:31.937 --> 00:05:36.137 You just like, yeah, it was like a kind of like vending machines in a 00:05:36.137 --> 00:05:39.937 way, but yeah, some giant machine that is kind of like on autopilot, 00:05:40.437 --> 00:05:43.117 Colin: Yeah, I mean the bathroom is similar very similar. 00:05:43.577 --> 00:05:44.107 CJ: Yes. 00:05:44.147 --> 00:05:44.647 Yes. 00:05:45.237 --> 00:05:46.687 So yeah, that was kind of interesting. 00:05:47.187 --> 00:05:51.187 The There's like so many apps too, that were really helpful. 00:05:51.557 --> 00:05:55.507 Google maps, obviously like you can get around anywhere really easily with that. 00:05:55.527 --> 00:05:59.997 I was shocked that in Venice where the, like most of the 00:05:59.997 --> 00:06:01.467 ways you get around is by boat. 00:06:02.017 --> 00:06:03.437 You could go on Google maps. 00:06:03.612 --> 00:06:07.742 And ask it for like public transportation directions and it'll tell you, like, go 00:06:07.742 --> 00:06:11.742 to this boat station and then the boat, like the next boat is coming at this time. 00:06:12.152 --> 00:06:15.602 And then again, you can just kind of like actually for that, 00:06:15.602 --> 00:06:19.302 we got like 48 hour tickets or something, but again, like Apple 00:06:19.497 --> 00:06:21.757 Colin: in like as many as you need for 48 hours 00:06:22.042 --> 00:06:22.832 CJ: Exactly. 00:06:22.862 --> 00:06:23.272 Yeah. 00:06:23.602 --> 00:06:27.132 And he's like, hop on the boat, like takes you to another part of the island. 00:06:27.132 --> 00:06:30.402 You hop off the boat and just walk around through this maze of 00:06:30.862 --> 00:06:32.742 little European shops and stuff. 00:06:32.812 --> 00:06:33.172 Colin: Yeah. 00:06:33.732 --> 00:06:38.142 I loved that about London was that you could use Apple pay just in the tube and 00:06:38.142 --> 00:06:41.962 not have to have like, you didn't have to even think about, do I need a 48 hour? 00:06:41.962 --> 00:06:42.332 Do I need it? 00:06:42.352 --> 00:06:42.622 Whatever. 00:06:42.622 --> 00:06:44.442 Like it's just each time you pay. 00:06:44.752 --> 00:06:45.822 And you don't need another app. 00:06:45.852 --> 00:06:47.592 It's literally just the Apple pay. 00:06:47.722 --> 00:06:53.042 Whereas when we were in Paris, you had to go buy these like tiny slips of paper. 00:06:53.072 --> 00:06:54.542 They are, they're all super small. 00:06:54.877 --> 00:06:57.827 And you had to just have enough of them on you at any given time. 00:06:57.877 --> 00:07:00.197 And you're just like running them through this little machine. 00:07:00.537 --> 00:07:02.407 And I'm sure Paris we'll get there. 00:07:02.447 --> 00:07:05.867 But it was less convenient because sometimes we would like count and 00:07:05.867 --> 00:07:08.207 it's like, Oh, we have enough to get there, but not enough to get back. 00:07:08.207 --> 00:07:10.657 So now we had to go buy another handful of these things. 00:07:11.217 --> 00:07:14.247 But yeah, I mean, just the ubiquity of Apple pay Google maps. 00:07:14.617 --> 00:07:17.907 When we were in London, they, they even had Uber branded boats. 00:07:18.097 --> 00:07:19.577 To get across some of the channels. 00:07:19.577 --> 00:07:23.477 So it was like in the Uber app, you could get a car or you could jump 00:07:23.477 --> 00:07:26.757 on this, like fair, it was like a ferry that was like Uber branded. 00:07:26.857 --> 00:07:31.147 And I think it was like a Uber like company for boats that Uber just bought 00:07:31.527 --> 00:07:33.397 and slapped their logo on everything. 00:07:34.347 --> 00:07:38.637 So yeah, I mean, public transit trains, I mean, all that stuff. 00:07:38.637 --> 00:07:44.337 Like when we took a train from London to Paris and it felt like the future 00:07:44.337 --> 00:07:47.547 to like, it was just like, wow, like this is how all travel should be. 00:07:48.232 --> 00:07:52.902 CJ: Yeah, it was pretty cool to see like the 300 plus 00:07:52.902 --> 00:07:54.552 kilometers per hour or whatever. 00:07:54.882 --> 00:07:57.702 You just, like, there's insanely fast compared to any 00:07:57.702 --> 00:07:58.932 train in the United States. 00:07:58.932 --> 00:07:59.782 Like yeah. 00:07:59.932 --> 00:08:00.892 Yeah, tons of fun. 00:08:01.482 --> 00:08:03.852 Oh, the one thing about Google Maps, though that was a little 00:08:03.852 --> 00:08:05.702 bit surprising to me was that. 00:08:06.727 --> 00:08:09.237 It did not have all of the restaurants. 00:08:10.037 --> 00:08:13.967 And so here I'm used to just like pulling up Google maps and like clicking 00:08:13.967 --> 00:08:17.027 on the, like the restaurant shortcut and then seeing all of the restaurants 00:08:17.027 --> 00:08:18.077 with their ratings and everything. 00:08:18.557 --> 00:08:22.417 I would say maybe it had 10 to 20 percent of the restaurants 00:08:22.417 --> 00:08:23.657 in the cities we went to. 00:08:24.117 --> 00:08:27.097 And so we just kind of abandoned that as a tool. 00:08:27.397 --> 00:08:31.267 And we just like walked down the street and stumble into, into restaurants or 00:08:31.267 --> 00:08:36.157 like ask locals for recommendations and go to the, those So yeah, that 00:08:36.157 --> 00:08:39.977 didn't that didn't solve that need as much translation apps, like 00:08:39.987 --> 00:08:41.837 translation apps are insanely good. 00:08:41.837 --> 00:08:46.457 Now there was, there's, I mean, the Google translate app has like the 00:08:46.467 --> 00:08:50.147 camera, the live, like AR camera. 00:08:50.147 --> 00:08:53.677 So you can just like point it at things and then it changes. 00:08:54.212 --> 00:08:57.072 The text in line to the translated text. 00:08:57.482 --> 00:08:58.102 Amazing. 00:08:58.322 --> 00:09:01.802 We also had like the real time conversation app. 00:09:01.802 --> 00:09:07.442 So there was a time where we were, my mom is like, she likes to order 00:09:07.442 --> 00:09:11.072 things off the menu when, and when you're working or when you're talking 00:09:11.072 --> 00:09:14.382 to someone that does not speak English and you don't speak any Italian. 00:09:14.412 --> 00:09:16.352 Like that became a challenge. 00:09:16.352 --> 00:09:19.372 And so we, we just like whipped out this app and we're having this 00:09:19.372 --> 00:09:24.767 conversation gentlemen, it was like amazing that we were able to communicate 00:09:24.767 --> 00:09:27.837 like very specific weird needs. 00:09:27.937 --> 00:09:28.347 Colin: Yeah 00:09:28.402 --> 00:09:30.252 CJ: and it, yeah, totally translated for us. 00:09:30.517 --> 00:09:35.227 Colin: on that one Because we're looking at maybe going to Japan and I 00:09:35.237 --> 00:09:39.007 guess being It's not it is possible. 00:09:39.007 --> 00:09:43.497 It's just not the norm to be vegan in Japan and so there have been a lot of 00:09:43.497 --> 00:09:49.242 recommendations to either on a literal card or Having a bunch of translations 00:09:49.242 --> 00:09:54.332 and explanations and something you just hand them instead of having to like check 00:09:54.332 --> 00:09:56.442 to see like, is this vegetarian vegan? 00:09:56.452 --> 00:10:00.962 Is it, you know, not every culture views the same like eggs might 00:10:00.962 --> 00:10:02.482 be included and things like that. 00:10:02.492 --> 00:10:05.312 So that's something that I've been thinking about a little bit. 00:10:05.352 --> 00:10:06.302 And back to the food. 00:10:06.767 --> 00:10:11.747 I will put a link to it, but there's this YouTube video called Top Jaw that 00:10:12.077 --> 00:10:15.567 is like my go to for any place that I'm traveling in the world now for food 00:10:15.907 --> 00:10:18.257 because he, it's kind of Anthony Bourdain. 00:10:18.277 --> 00:10:24.247 If he was like born in the YouTube era very charismatic, very good, like editing. 00:10:24.257 --> 00:10:28.827 I mean, he just, He'll do like a 48 hours in London, 48 hours in Paris, 48 hours in 00:10:29.057 --> 00:10:32.997 Rome, and just breaks down like all the places where all the chefs go and eat. 00:10:33.007 --> 00:10:37.077 And so like, cause things like Yelp, I don't think are as big in Europe either. 00:10:37.077 --> 00:10:40.287 And so like, and it's tricky cause everyone's reviewing the things 00:10:40.287 --> 00:10:43.027 that they don't like more than the things that they do like. 00:10:43.367 --> 00:10:45.397 And so this is really just like all the hits. 00:10:45.447 --> 00:10:48.647 So if you're only in a place for a short period of time, You know, you could 00:10:48.657 --> 00:10:52.007 definitely talk to somebody and get some recommendations, but like this, 00:10:52.037 --> 00:10:54.117 this guy is definitely good for that. 00:10:54.217 --> 00:10:56.597 What did you guys use for service when you were there? 00:10:57.097 --> 00:10:57.767 CJ: For like cell phone 00:10:57.967 --> 00:10:58.407 Colin: Yeah, 00:10:59.037 --> 00:11:02.097 CJ: Yeah we didn't do anything fancy. 00:11:02.487 --> 00:11:03.127 We're on AT& T. 00:11:03.897 --> 00:11:07.547 And so I'm sure we, yeah, we overpaid for it. 00:11:07.547 --> 00:11:11.547 It was like 18 a day for both of us to have like all of our normal 00:11:11.797 --> 00:11:13.137 service and data and everything. 00:11:13.537 --> 00:11:19.517 But we wanted to do that because we could still like tether the kids 00:11:19.597 --> 00:11:23.907 devices if they needed a break and we're on a train or something, they could 00:11:23.907 --> 00:11:26.857 still like play a game or whatever. 00:11:27.377 --> 00:11:29.207 And I wanted to access to like everything. 00:11:29.207 --> 00:11:30.027 So like, 00:11:30.337 --> 00:11:32.457 Colin: Yeah, you don't want to be tying looking for Wi Fi, 00:11:32.487 --> 00:11:34.157 which is what a lot of people do 00:11:34.677 --> 00:11:35.117 CJ: Yeah. 00:11:35.417 --> 00:11:36.977 Colin: The cool thing here. 00:11:37.017 --> 00:11:44.397 I have done what you did But depending on how patient I want to be And the eSIMs 00:11:45.157 --> 00:11:46.297 are in all of our phones now, right? 00:11:46.297 --> 00:11:48.857 We don't have if you have a more modern phone, you don't even have 00:11:48.857 --> 00:11:54.687 a SIM card anymore I use this app called Arrow and lets you look for and 00:11:54.697 --> 00:11:57.807 download Sims for all the different networks and all the different regions. 00:11:57.817 --> 00:12:00.357 So you can do like one for all of Europe, if you're traveling all over. 00:12:00.662 --> 00:12:02.022 You can do just an Italy one. 00:12:02.022 --> 00:12:03.712 You can really fine tune it. 00:12:03.992 --> 00:12:06.132 It does make it a little bit weird in that, like, it's 00:12:06.132 --> 00:12:07.782 going to give you a new number. 00:12:08.212 --> 00:12:12.992 So like that part of it is weird if it doesn't like teaching my mom 00:12:12.992 --> 00:12:16.002 how to enable and disable eSIMs is not the easiest thing in the world. 00:12:16.002 --> 00:12:19.122 You're in the settings and you're, if it doesn't work, you're not online. 00:12:19.122 --> 00:12:21.092 So you can't ask for help and all sorts of stuff. 00:12:21.112 --> 00:12:23.982 But and it's also not something you can practice cause you don't 00:12:23.982 --> 00:12:25.452 have access to the network here. 00:12:25.842 --> 00:12:26.202 Right. 00:12:26.202 --> 00:12:27.672 So like, it's just going to fail here. 00:12:27.682 --> 00:12:28.052 So. 00:12:28.447 --> 00:12:29.227 That's been nice. 00:12:29.257 --> 00:12:32.747 You just download and prepay for the ones you want and then you know 00:12:32.747 --> 00:12:35.927 what your price is going to be and sometimes it's like by the minute 00:12:35.957 --> 00:12:37.497 or it's unlimited, things like that. 00:12:37.497 --> 00:12:38.947 So you can kind of figure it out. 00:12:39.692 --> 00:12:40.132 CJ: Got it. 00:12:40.422 --> 00:12:40.602 Yeah. 00:12:40.602 --> 00:12:43.622 We used everyone that was on the trip, we set up a WhatsApp 00:12:43.927 --> 00:12:44.317 Colin: Mm hmm. 00:12:44.752 --> 00:12:49.032 CJ: and everyone had different service providers and different stuff, but 00:12:49.462 --> 00:12:50.972 we just used WhatsApp for everything. 00:12:51.142 --> 00:12:56.052 And even like calling and if we needed to coordinate anything, it was, we either 00:12:56.052 --> 00:13:00.872 call each other or we called like, you know, local, like the car service or 00:13:00.887 --> 00:13:03.037 Colin: Most of them probably had a WhatsApp number, right? 00:13:03.552 --> 00:13:03.882 CJ: Yeah. 00:13:03.882 --> 00:13:06.532 They were, or we just called like their normal phone number through 00:13:06.532 --> 00:13:09.232 what's, I don't know if they all were just like using WhatsApp instead, 00:13:09.232 --> 00:13:11.132 but yeah, we just called through. 00:13:11.622 --> 00:13:11.892 Yeah. 00:13:11.922 --> 00:13:13.932 WhatsApp was amazing and it worked great 00:13:14.022 --> 00:13:17.152 Colin: Yeah, I know in like a lot of places in Asia, like they'll, 00:13:17.212 --> 00:13:19.972 well, there'll be like WeChat, but like Bali, almost everything's 00:13:20.002 --> 00:13:23.512 like a WhatsApp number or there's a bunch of different apps like that. 00:13:23.512 --> 00:13:28.172 So yeah, communication apps, train travel Yeah, I think other tech things. 00:13:28.192 --> 00:13:30.342 I'm pretty minimalistic on my travel. 00:13:30.682 --> 00:13:34.732 I don't go, you know, with like four rolling suitcases. 00:13:35.132 --> 00:13:37.792 So Chanel and I have gotten pretty good at one bag travel. 00:13:37.832 --> 00:13:41.512 She has this really cool bag that is two backpacks that clip 00:13:41.512 --> 00:13:43.582 together into one giant backpack. 00:13:43.592 --> 00:13:44.362 It's like a backpackers backpack. 00:13:45.332 --> 00:13:48.152 And then when we get to where we're going, the top shell like on snaps and 00:13:48.152 --> 00:13:49.822 that's like all of her extra stuff. 00:13:50.152 --> 00:13:52.682 And then she just has this day pack that she can run around with. 00:13:53.082 --> 00:13:56.492 I have to like bring a smaller backpack that like folds up 00:13:56.492 --> 00:13:57.772 into my regular backpack. 00:13:57.782 --> 00:14:02.732 But yeah, so kind of been just like getting all the, the right chargers 00:14:02.732 --> 00:14:06.542 and the right, you know things that you need and not having to have 20 different 00:14:06.542 --> 00:14:07.972 cables for everything that you own. 00:14:08.372 --> 00:14:10.202 That stuff's also just getting a little bit easier. 00:14:10.212 --> 00:14:12.402 Everything we have is smaller these days. 00:14:12.402 --> 00:14:14.312 Nice. 00:14:14.557 --> 00:14:16.377 CJ: do one bag mostly. 00:14:16.927 --> 00:14:22.817 So all of us, like all eight of us had one bag and that worked great. 00:14:22.967 --> 00:14:26.337 My, my backpack. 00:14:26.727 --> 00:14:30.007 Is one that like has like this, the expansion thing. 00:14:30.427 --> 00:14:33.987 So there's two giant zippers that if they're shut, then it ends up 00:14:33.997 --> 00:14:38.217 being like, I think a 35 liter or maybe a, or maybe a 40 liter. 00:14:38.467 --> 00:14:41.297 And then if you unzip those two things, it goes to 65 liter. 00:14:41.707 --> 00:14:45.107 And so I was like, I just need it to be small for the carry on. 00:14:45.447 --> 00:14:50.127 And then I'll like have my day pack be my like, we had a day pack that 00:14:50.127 --> 00:14:55.467 we all needed to carry four people's worth of like snacks and like 00:14:55.467 --> 00:14:57.087 jackets and things like that anyways. 00:14:57.107 --> 00:15:02.087 And so when we flew, I basically had two bags, but then the rest of the 00:15:02.087 --> 00:15:06.247 trip, when we were like in trains and busing around and whatever, then I would 00:15:06.247 --> 00:15:10.022 just like stuff it all into like this giant 60 liter and so for our family 00:15:10.022 --> 00:15:11.182 of four, that worked really well. 00:15:11.192 --> 00:15:15.052 And the kids like did an amazing job of carrying all their own stuff. 00:15:15.052 --> 00:15:16.292 It was like shocking. 00:15:16.362 --> 00:15:16.892 Yeah. 00:15:16.992 --> 00:15:20.802 And we did have to do laundry in a sink once. 00:15:20.862 --> 00:15:22.882 And then we did laundry in an Airbnb once. 00:15:23.322 --> 00:15:25.752 But yeah, it worked out like great. 00:15:25.762 --> 00:15:31.202 So we, I think we all had for 10 days, I think we all had three or four changes of 00:15:31.202 --> 00:15:33.542 clothes and it worked like totally fine. 00:15:33.952 --> 00:15:34.292 Colin: Yeah. 00:15:34.292 --> 00:15:37.272 If you can plan around an Airbnb to do laundry or something 00:15:37.272 --> 00:15:38.982 like that, that's, that's huge. 00:15:39.082 --> 00:15:41.572 I think that's the challenge is a lot of people will do that. 00:15:41.572 --> 00:15:42.982 Like, Oh, what if I need this? 00:15:42.982 --> 00:15:43.932 Or what if I need this? 00:15:43.952 --> 00:15:45.752 And you really start to learn. 00:15:45.762 --> 00:15:49.012 And like, I even have keep a running list of like, these are 00:15:49.012 --> 00:15:49.912 the things that I'm bringing. 00:15:50.082 --> 00:15:52.102 And then I read down all the things I never used. 00:15:52.172 --> 00:15:54.022 And then I just keep trying to dwindle it. 00:15:54.282 --> 00:15:56.572 Granted, it's like if you're going to go out for nicer dinners, 00:15:56.572 --> 00:15:58.522 you want to have, nicer clothes. 00:15:58.822 --> 00:16:03.752 So then it's like a little bit of that athleisure like stuff that could be you 00:16:03.752 --> 00:16:07.792 know, the Lululemon work pant that looks like slacks, but it's also comfortable. 00:16:08.112 --> 00:16:10.552 And then you start getting into all that kind of stuff. 00:16:10.902 --> 00:16:13.462 There's a really good, another YouTube channel called pack hacker. 00:16:13.472 --> 00:16:18.332 This is if you want to really go down the one bag, travel, the organizers, all 00:16:18.332 --> 00:16:19.822 the things that you could travel with. 00:16:20.172 --> 00:16:24.092 Cause I do like to have another bag cause my Big bag can't fit under the seat, but 00:16:24.092 --> 00:16:29.162 I want my, if I'm bringing a laptop or an iPad or all my like things so that 00:16:29.162 --> 00:16:33.302 I'm not raw dogging a flight I can have that stuff because I think that's that 00:16:33.312 --> 00:16:37.002 trend of, oh, how can you you know, go on a long flight without doing anything? 00:16:37.002 --> 00:16:37.612 That's not me. 00:16:37.662 --> 00:16:38.702 I can't, can't do it. 00:16:39.202 --> 00:16:39.532 CJ: Yeah, 00:16:39.772 --> 00:16:41.252 Colin: I need ultimate distractions. 00:16:42.772 --> 00:16:43.852 CJ: going back to the clothes. 00:16:43.852 --> 00:16:47.672 Do you, do you have like special clothing that you've bought like just for travel? 00:16:47.672 --> 00:16:49.172 Because it's no. 00:16:49.417 --> 00:16:52.997 Colin: No, I mean, it's stuff that I wear today and like 00:16:52.997 --> 00:16:55.057 I've, it's not like a uniform. 00:16:55.067 --> 00:16:58.597 It's not like the minimalist, you know, I only wear black and gray 00:16:58.597 --> 00:16:59.737 t shirts and stuff like that. 00:16:59.747 --> 00:17:03.757 It's, you know, a lot of that stuff I ended up just like, as I replaced 00:17:03.757 --> 00:17:07.147 my normal wardrobe, I've been just thinking about like, what's something 00:17:07.147 --> 00:17:08.797 that can get a lot of different use. 00:17:09.037 --> 00:17:11.937 And I'm like, I think we've talked about this on the show, like trying to 00:17:11.937 --> 00:17:14.397 start to mature my wardrobe even more. 00:17:14.397 --> 00:17:19.127 So like less startup t shirts, more like what you're wearing, you've got, you know 00:17:19.177 --> 00:17:23.527 nicer shirts with collars and you know, even card yeah, those kinds of things. 00:17:23.527 --> 00:17:24.497 So Yeah. 00:17:24.497 --> 00:17:27.737 You don't want to be taking like a huge chunky knit sweater with you. 00:17:28.157 --> 00:17:29.837 That's going to take up half your backpack. 00:17:29.937 --> 00:17:33.097 And you also don't want to necessarily be carrying literal 60 like a 00:17:33.097 --> 00:17:34.687 full weight of 60 liters either. 00:17:34.687 --> 00:17:38.047 So like getting the right shape of backpack, I have two, 00:17:38.047 --> 00:17:39.887 one that's extremely boxy. 00:17:40.342 --> 00:17:42.872 But it holds a lot of stuff and like holds on my back. 00:17:42.872 --> 00:17:47.562 Well, so that, cause I, my other one was more like a turtle shell and like 00:17:47.652 --> 00:17:50.912 halfway through the trip, I'm just like dreading carrying this thing. 00:17:51.272 --> 00:17:55.062 Especially if you're moving around with public transit or how you get around, 00:17:55.072 --> 00:17:59.652 you end up like learning what, you know, things like hip, hip the hip straps 00:17:59.652 --> 00:18:01.202 and stuff like that can really help. 00:18:01.832 --> 00:18:02.312 CJ: Totally. 00:18:02.782 --> 00:18:05.942 Yeah, I think the kids like for the kids, we basically just stuffed their 00:18:05.942 --> 00:18:09.412 school backpacks and by the end, I think they definitely would have 00:18:09.412 --> 00:18:12.272 benefited from like the hip strap thing. 00:18:12.302 --> 00:18:16.662 And so if we were to go any, any longer than 10 days, which this 00:18:16.662 --> 00:18:20.532 was definitely like a once in a decade type of trip for us. 00:18:20.542 --> 00:18:24.312 So I don't know if we're going to be doing any like any more travel 00:18:24.312 --> 00:18:26.102 anytime soon, like this long, but 00:18:26.202 --> 00:18:29.902 Colin: well, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend like, unless you're going 00:18:29.902 --> 00:18:33.622 to travel a lot, don't go out and splurge on these like travel backpacks. 00:18:33.622 --> 00:18:36.682 Like it's become a new thing of all the brands are like, how 00:18:36.682 --> 00:18:37.992 can we sell you another thing? 00:18:38.272 --> 00:18:41.262 So we've got your car camping backpack. 00:18:41.447 --> 00:18:43.077 The thing that you're never going to carry. 00:18:43.097 --> 00:18:45.287 We've got the away bags with the fancy rollers. 00:18:45.907 --> 00:18:48.877 My mom went and realized that in Rome, you're not rolling a 00:18:48.877 --> 00:18:50.367 suitcase around super easily. 00:18:50.367 --> 00:18:50.647 Right. 00:18:50.997 --> 00:18:53.697 But she's also not going to be carrying a lot of bags. 00:18:53.727 --> 00:18:56.387 And so it does depend on where you're at in your life. 00:18:56.397 --> 00:19:00.907 If you're going to splurge for, you know, someone to take your bags 00:19:00.907 --> 00:19:04.337 magically from the hotel to, to the airport for you, stuff like that, 00:19:04.707 --> 00:19:08.037 then you can pack differently, but if you're going to be doing hostels or 00:19:08.037 --> 00:19:10.587 even Airbnb and stuff that's a big one. 00:19:11.227 --> 00:19:13.777 There's this network that I found called Selena. 00:19:14.107 --> 00:19:16.467 And then there's another one that I'll try to remember off the top of 00:19:16.487 --> 00:19:21.377 my head that we ended up staying at a lot because they're hostile like, but 00:19:21.817 --> 00:19:24.647 they're like hostiles run by a WeWork. 00:19:24.837 --> 00:19:30.502 If you had to get like very much focused on like a community, but also like, 00:19:30.752 --> 00:19:32.552 Same experience everywhere you go. 00:19:32.552 --> 00:19:36.042 And so if we couldn't find something, we knew there would be a Selena. 00:19:36.362 --> 00:19:37.702 The other one is escaping me. 00:19:37.702 --> 00:19:39.922 We'll put it in the show notes that we also used. 00:19:39.922 --> 00:19:43.952 And like, we, we, we somehow like bought tickets for the train. 00:19:44.522 --> 00:19:45.022 What was it? 00:19:45.242 --> 00:19:48.812 We bought tickets for the train to get to the airport, to go to us, to, 00:19:48.852 --> 00:19:52.412 from Paris to London, and we bought them for the day that we bought them. 00:19:52.892 --> 00:19:57.872 Instead of for tomorrow and we didn't realize it until we got to the train 00:19:57.982 --> 00:20:00.802 tomorrow So we get there the next day and the lady's like, yeah, you 00:20:00.802 --> 00:20:03.232 missed your train Like we're like, oh, we're almost late for our train. 00:20:03.232 --> 00:20:04.602 They're like no you missed it by like a day 00:20:06.822 --> 00:20:09.782 So we were able to go right back to the hotel that we had just checked out 00:20:09.782 --> 00:20:13.552 of and like check in it was all like automated and like because we were 00:20:13.552 --> 00:20:18.452 already a member it was super easy and It wasn't like, if we were at a Hilton, 00:20:18.462 --> 00:20:20.652 we'd be like, Oh no, are we going to be able to get a room for tonight? 00:20:20.652 --> 00:20:21.902 Are we going to find a new hotel? 00:20:22.202 --> 00:20:22.822 So I'll find the name of it. 00:20:22.832 --> 00:20:26.792 It's literally like a Swedish brand and it's like an Ikea version of, of a 00:20:26.792 --> 00:20:30.432 hostel and very well done and, you know, I'm more interested in some of those 00:20:30.432 --> 00:20:33.642 things because of coworking and the community stuff and like watching, you 00:20:33.642 --> 00:20:36.972 know, even they had an app and like, how does this work and their onboarding and 00:20:36.972 --> 00:20:38.292 all that kind of stuff was really cool. 00:20:39.992 --> 00:20:41.502 CJ: that sounds like tons of fun. 00:20:41.522 --> 00:20:45.362 I'm curious if you would take, like, would you recommend someone take 00:20:45.362 --> 00:20:47.492 their kids to something like that? 00:20:47.872 --> 00:20:48.302 Colin: Yeah. 00:20:48.352 --> 00:20:51.402 So yeah, like Selena, they had like hostel hostels where you're 00:20:51.412 --> 00:20:55.052 in bunks in rooms, but then you could get your own rooms as well. 00:20:55.062 --> 00:20:59.142 So I was in my own room because it was cheap enough that it was 00:20:59.152 --> 00:21:02.312 cheaper than a hotel, but I just didn't want to deal with people. 00:21:02.362 --> 00:21:06.482 And I got lucky on one of those because that was also when I got COVID. 00:21:06.872 --> 00:21:09.172 And then I was like just dying in that room. 00:21:09.172 --> 00:21:10.517 And I had to tell them like, that's fine. 00:21:10.637 --> 00:21:13.487 No one is allowed to come in this room for a few days. 00:21:13.537 --> 00:21:16.137 And then I transferred to an actual hotel after that. 00:21:16.137 --> 00:21:17.767 Cause they were like, yeah, you need to get out of here. 00:21:17.817 --> 00:21:21.317 But if I had been sharing bunks like that would have been a nightmare 00:21:21.357 --> 00:21:24.477 one, just being sick, but also don't want to get other people sick. 00:21:24.987 --> 00:21:26.637 I think a lot of that also depends. 00:21:26.637 --> 00:21:30.577 Like if you're just yourself traveling, you can put up with a lot more stuff 00:21:30.577 --> 00:21:34.757 and chaos and just show up, you know, a lot of people, we, we've talked about 00:21:34.757 --> 00:21:36.587 the idea of like going to the airport. 00:21:36.587 --> 00:21:40.437 I think there was a brand that did this as like stopping people at the airport. 00:21:40.917 --> 00:21:43.077 And saying, do you want to spin this wheel? 00:21:43.087 --> 00:21:46.087 If we will pay for you to go wherever you want to go, but that means 00:21:46.087 --> 00:21:47.457 you're not going on your normal trip. 00:21:48.037 --> 00:21:51.117 And so depending on what you're doing, like people are like, Oh no, I can't, 00:21:51.137 --> 00:21:54.087 you know, and some of them was like, you're going to Egypt on us around 00:21:54.087 --> 00:21:55.877 trip, like hotels, all this stuff. 00:21:56.287 --> 00:21:59.682 And it would be fun to just like, Know you have some time, pack some bags, 00:21:59.682 --> 00:22:02.152 and just like go to the airport and see what the cheapest tickets are. 00:22:02.582 --> 00:22:03.662 Maybe not the cheapest tickets. 00:22:03.692 --> 00:22:05.562 More, more, most interesting tickets. 00:22:05.592 --> 00:22:06.632 Heh heh heh. 00:22:07.357 --> 00:22:10.267 CJ: Our friends on the way home, their flight got canceled. 00:22:10.277 --> 00:22:13.897 And so they were sort of in that situation where it was like, all right, 00:22:13.917 --> 00:22:16.917 now you have a few hours to figure out what you're going to do for the 00:22:16.917 --> 00:22:20.197 rest or like for the next three days until the next flight out of here. 00:22:20.737 --> 00:22:22.417 Which was, yeah, I don't know. 00:22:22.427 --> 00:22:26.357 I can't wait to have the like margin and flexibility to be 00:22:26.357 --> 00:22:27.417 able to do something like that. 00:22:27.417 --> 00:22:27.687 But. 00:22:27.882 --> 00:22:31.372 Colin: Yeah, I mean sometimes it's expensive to travel last minute, but 00:22:31.372 --> 00:22:34.932 then other times if you play your cards right, you've got inventory 00:22:34.932 --> 00:22:37.867 that's gonna go unused and you can Get some killer deals too. 00:22:37.867 --> 00:22:41.657 So we can talk about deals and points and all that stuff in a future episode. 00:22:41.707 --> 00:22:43.397 But yeah, let's see. 00:22:43.447 --> 00:22:45.827 Last episode, again, super time dilated. 00:22:46.107 --> 00:22:48.727 Who knows when this episode is coming out, but last episode I talked about 00:22:49.177 --> 00:22:51.457 making videos, tutorials, streams. 00:22:51.852 --> 00:22:52.942 Still haven't done this. 00:22:53.082 --> 00:22:55.202 I have a post it next to me that says stream. 00:22:55.642 --> 00:22:57.262 I'm going to get there. 00:22:57.642 --> 00:23:01.562 Instead I have built, I've been learning unity and I have built 00:23:01.602 --> 00:23:03.142 the hardest version of Flappy Bird. 00:23:03.242 --> 00:23:08.682 It is, it is it is very humbling but also surprisingly easy to make Flappy Bird. 00:23:08.867 --> 00:23:10.637 So it's been, it's been fun. 00:23:11.782 --> 00:23:14.332 CJ: So this is starting from scratch with Unity. 00:23:14.562 --> 00:23:20.082 You open it up and how much, like what percentage of the work involved with 00:23:20.242 --> 00:23:24.442 building Flappy Bird was actually writing code versus kind of like dragging and 00:23:24.442 --> 00:23:28.092 dropping and clicking around and kind of like graphic design and audio design. 00:23:28.352 --> 00:23:29.062 Things like that. 00:23:29.387 --> 00:23:29.727 Colin: Yeah. 00:23:29.727 --> 00:23:31.587 I'll, I'll include the tutorial I used. 00:23:31.657 --> 00:23:34.007 And I was mostly like, again, I was watching the guy's video. 00:23:34.007 --> 00:23:35.267 I was like, this is so well done. 00:23:35.327 --> 00:23:40.967 It is amazingly like, I've not seen many software development tutorials 00:23:40.967 --> 00:23:43.857 done the same way, even though this is like it is software development, 00:23:43.857 --> 00:23:46.087 but it is games, game development. 00:23:46.307 --> 00:23:50.467 Is like what we already know in web dev, like tilted 90 degrees. 00:23:50.507 --> 00:23:51.587 It has been pretty wild. 00:23:51.587 --> 00:23:55.267 Cause we actually see this with discord activities, developers where 00:23:55.267 --> 00:23:57.057 they're not necessarily web developers. 00:23:57.137 --> 00:24:01.617 And to me, it's like kind of taken for granted, but like, they don't know a lot 00:24:01.617 --> 00:24:05.357 about like even making an HTTP request from unity is like a foreign idea. 00:24:05.597 --> 00:24:06.107 It does. 00:24:06.127 --> 00:24:06.817 It's possible. 00:24:06.952 --> 00:24:10.212 But it's, it's just slightly tilted on its head. 00:24:10.612 --> 00:24:15.382 And I think when I opened a project, it took me a while to understand. 00:24:15.382 --> 00:24:17.152 I'm like, where the heck is everything? 00:24:17.152 --> 00:24:17.572 Like I'm like 00:24:17.952 --> 00:24:18.342 CJ: Yeah. 00:24:18.812 --> 00:24:21.892 Colin: for this word that's in the UI and I can't find it. 00:24:21.892 --> 00:24:26.247 And so there is this a little bit of magic that unity does where. 00:24:26.587 --> 00:24:27.597 You can drag it. 00:24:27.607 --> 00:24:33.167 You can drag in a picture, like a sprite of the pipe and the bird, and 00:24:33.167 --> 00:24:36.427 you can give them collision properties. 00:24:36.717 --> 00:24:38.007 You don't have to write the code for that. 00:24:38.177 --> 00:24:40.977 It knows what it means to run into each other and things like that. 00:24:41.197 --> 00:24:43.437 So like a lot of that stuff, when you, if you're going to build a 00:24:43.437 --> 00:24:47.727 game from absolute scratch, you are writing that code as well. 00:24:48.287 --> 00:24:49.917 You do not need to do that in Unity. 00:24:50.277 --> 00:24:51.507 You can do a 2D collider. 00:24:51.507 --> 00:24:52.677 You can do a 3D collider. 00:24:52.937 --> 00:24:57.882 You can have triggers, so like, you know, a collide with an invisible thing. 00:24:57.882 --> 00:25:01.922 So like in Flappy Bird, you need to know when you go through the pipes, but you 00:25:01.922 --> 00:25:03.742 don't want to slam into an invisible wall. 00:25:03.752 --> 00:25:05.362 So you need to be able to go through that. 00:25:05.667 --> 00:25:10.227 And we can then write events to say, when I pass through this barrier, add 00:25:10.227 --> 00:25:16.147 to the score when I hit the pipe, end the game, you know, let them restart. 00:25:16.147 --> 00:25:16.927 All that kind of stuff. 00:25:16.927 --> 00:25:20.437 So it is a little bit interesting 'cause sometimes you like, look for the code. 00:25:20.437 --> 00:25:21.757 I'm like, oh, where's the binding for this? 00:25:21.997 --> 00:25:24.187 And a lot of the binding is also in the ui. 00:25:24.427 --> 00:25:27.757 So this might be similar to VS code, but like you will have 00:25:27.757 --> 00:25:29.077 a class and you can create. 00:25:29.592 --> 00:25:32.412 In the tutorial, they called them slots, but like they're variables. 00:25:32.412 --> 00:25:35.682 So like public variables and private, if you make it public, it 00:25:35.682 --> 00:25:38.182 shows up in the UI for that thing. 00:25:38.182 --> 00:25:42.372 So like the bird can have a slot that. 00:25:43.262 --> 00:25:46.912 is, maybe let's do like a UI, like a text element. 00:25:47.282 --> 00:25:50.982 Or even, if we back up even more, the thing that is keeping 00:25:50.982 --> 00:25:52.722 track of score can be invisible. 00:25:52.722 --> 00:25:53.562 It's just a class. 00:25:53.842 --> 00:25:56.212 That can have a slot, which is the text component. 00:25:56.472 --> 00:25:59.442 You can drag the text component into that variable. 00:25:59.602 --> 00:26:04.017 So you're never tell, like you can tell it in code, Bind this variable to this 00:26:04.027 --> 00:26:06.507 text and go find it and use it in code. 00:26:06.507 --> 00:26:09.307 But a lot of times you just drag it, which then means when you go 00:26:09.307 --> 00:26:11.817 search for it, you're not going to find it because it's in the UI. 00:26:12.117 --> 00:26:15.587 And so I can see how there's a lot of like, why isn't my game working? 00:26:15.587 --> 00:26:17.937 And you're like, Oh, you forgot to drag this thing into the slot. 00:26:18.317 --> 00:26:23.707 I don't know if that's the norm or if it's more like testable to do it in code. 00:26:23.987 --> 00:26:26.937 And then you, I don't even know if people write, I imagine they write 00:26:26.937 --> 00:26:30.137 tests for video games, but so it is, that's the kind of stuff that's 00:26:30.137 --> 00:26:31.547 just like, Oh, this is interesting. 00:26:31.847 --> 00:26:34.257 And it does make you think a lot differently. 00:26:34.317 --> 00:26:39.497 So that's been fun to do, but yeah, I don't think I could have done it by myself 00:26:39.527 --> 00:26:43.517 without the tutorial, just because I didn't know what drawers to put things in. 00:26:44.242 --> 00:26:47.932 CJ: yeah, it almost sort of sounds like interface builder for like 00:26:47.932 --> 00:26:50.432 mobile, iOS or something where you 00:26:50.867 --> 00:26:51.097 Colin: Yeah. 00:26:51.097 --> 00:26:52.277 X codes very similar. 00:26:52.422 --> 00:26:52.872 CJ: yeah. 00:26:52.972 --> 00:26:53.402 Okay. 00:26:54.472 --> 00:26:55.012 Interesting. 00:26:55.837 --> 00:26:59.267 Colin: Yeah, I mean, it starts to make you realize, like, as long as you have 00:26:59.287 --> 00:27:02.527 enough patience to, like, write out and think about, like, what slots need 00:27:02.527 --> 00:27:06.047 to be connected to what, what managers do you have, what logic do you need to 00:27:06.047 --> 00:27:09.597 have where and then, like, making sure the components can talk to each other, 00:27:09.597 --> 00:27:14.377 either through these slots or going and finding them, you can build a pretty 00:27:14.377 --> 00:27:16.537 complex game without a lot of knowledge. 00:27:16.707 --> 00:27:19.937 I think it's probably easier because I, like, I don't know. 00:27:20.857 --> 00:27:24.477 C sharp, but like, it looks like most languages that I've used. 00:27:24.477 --> 00:27:27.777 And so I'm just writing, you know, code and it's been fine. 00:27:27.807 --> 00:27:31.637 And you know, I'm using when you open the code, it tries to open 00:27:31.637 --> 00:27:33.417 it in VS code, which is nice. 00:27:33.417 --> 00:27:36.717 Cause then I have copilot, but I can also just open it in cursor. 00:27:37.007 --> 00:27:39.357 And then I have cursor at my disposal as well. 00:27:39.467 --> 00:27:39.857 So 00:27:40.692 --> 00:27:41.162 CJ: got it. 00:27:41.242 --> 00:27:41.732 Okay. 00:27:41.862 --> 00:27:47.302 And the, so the amount of code that you're writing to get flappy 00:27:47.302 --> 00:27:52.672 bird working is like hundreds of lines, like thousands of lines. 00:27:52.717 --> 00:27:58.657 Colin: For Flappy Bird, end state, game state is probably 100 lines. 00:27:59.377 --> 00:27:59.817 CJ: Wow. 00:28:00.027 --> 00:28:01.407 Colin: 50 at most. 00:28:01.477 --> 00:28:01.817 Yeah. 00:28:02.137 --> 00:28:05.507 So, I mean, it's like on screen, you could see it all if you really needed to. 00:28:05.917 --> 00:28:09.007 But again, that's, that's the power of an engine, right? 00:28:09.027 --> 00:28:13.897 So like these things like phaser and unity, they all have built in the 00:28:14.467 --> 00:28:18.127 idea of that you're going to probably run on a surface or you're going to 00:28:18.307 --> 00:28:20.067 run into things and stuff like that. 00:28:20.067 --> 00:28:24.377 And so you have events click handlers, input handlers, all that stuff that I 00:28:24.377 --> 00:28:29.302 remember doing like V visual studio, like Vs like VS code, like, like 00:28:29.312 --> 00:28:33.852 visual studio, basic stuff where you are writing all that by hand. 00:28:34.762 --> 00:28:39.082 And so I imagine that that is why we have the game engines that we do. 00:28:39.937 --> 00:28:40.367 CJ: Nice. 00:28:40.917 --> 00:28:46.357 When we were traveling, my buddy was telling the kids about unity and 00:28:46.407 --> 00:28:50.337 unreal and all this and how like they should try downloading game engines. 00:28:50.657 --> 00:28:54.307 And as a meta note, I think My kids are reaching a point where 00:28:54.307 --> 00:28:57.257 like they don't want to listen to their parents advice anymore. 00:28:57.867 --> 00:29:02.717 And so having this like trusted other like advisor or like kind of a mentor 00:29:02.717 --> 00:29:06.037 for them, I'm like, okay, if I want them to do something, I should just tell 00:29:06.037 --> 00:29:09.277 him to tell them that they should like do the thing because now they're like, 00:29:09.307 --> 00:29:11.167 oh yeah, Travis told us about this. 00:29:11.167 --> 00:29:14.277 So we're going to like go download unity and get it set up. 00:29:14.307 --> 00:29:18.677 And so Yeah, I'd love to, to take a look at the tutorial or like send it to them. 00:29:18.687 --> 00:29:21.357 Cause I think they're really interested in just like experimenting. 00:29:21.847 --> 00:29:25.147 And I was kind of curious if like you had any issues running C 00:29:25.147 --> 00:29:29.967 sharp on Mac, but it sounds like that's like handled by probably by 00:29:29.967 --> 00:29:31.547 unity somewhere inside of there. 00:29:31.857 --> 00:29:32.277 Colin: Yeah. 00:29:32.277 --> 00:29:34.947 I think if you're not used to it, like when you click on the code 00:29:34.947 --> 00:29:38.117 scripts, like one, you had to learn like, where the heck do I even put 00:29:38.117 --> 00:29:39.487 this thing and where does it live? 00:29:39.917 --> 00:29:42.557 When you double click on the code script, it opens another ID and you're 00:29:42.557 --> 00:29:43.777 like, what the heck, what just happened? 00:29:43.827 --> 00:29:45.937 And like, as you're saving it, it's. 00:29:46.412 --> 00:29:50.512 Re pulling it in and doing it like there is an annoying loader. 00:29:50.522 --> 00:29:54.842 Every time you hit save in your ID, by the time you switch to unity, it's still 00:29:54.842 --> 00:29:56.942 working and then you got to hit play. 00:29:56.942 --> 00:29:58.982 And then it does its little build compile thing. 00:29:58.982 --> 00:30:01.052 And then, so it's, it can be pretty tedious. 00:30:01.092 --> 00:30:02.402 The cool thing is that there's like a. 00:30:02.787 --> 00:30:05.827 You don't have to always compile to see what's going on. 00:30:05.827 --> 00:30:08.727 Like you can change the code while you're, you can change the code and 00:30:08.727 --> 00:30:10.227 the variables while you're in the game. 00:30:10.587 --> 00:30:15.097 So making those slots in the UI allows you to even change the score and stuff 00:30:15.097 --> 00:30:18.367 while you're playing game to see, like, you know, even before I built the 00:30:18.377 --> 00:30:22.362 collider, I just had a little context menu that was like increment score 00:30:22.362 --> 00:30:23.987 and to make sure the UI is wired up. 00:30:24.457 --> 00:30:25.587 But yeah, I think they'll really like it. 00:30:25.587 --> 00:30:26.722 What I loved about the guys doing this. 00:30:27.382 --> 00:30:33.222 The way that he taught was really good at teaching the you the the concepts but also 00:30:33.222 --> 00:30:37.822 the tools And then it was like a 50 minute video, which I think most of us have 00:30:37.822 --> 00:30:41.772 learned is overwhelming when you're trying to learn something But it was broke. 00:30:41.782 --> 00:30:46.757 It was well chaptered and he did these recaps like every 10 minutes where it's 00:30:46.757 --> 00:30:48.137 like everything that we just learned. 00:30:48.137 --> 00:30:50.497 Let's go back over it in case you miss something. 00:30:50.497 --> 00:30:54.257 And then you have this new starting point of, okay, we went through the pipes. 00:30:54.597 --> 00:30:54.957 Sure. 00:30:54.967 --> 00:30:56.467 The game's not very exciting right now. 00:30:56.577 --> 00:31:00.137 But I mean, like even that a hundred lines, let's say it's a hundred, like 00:31:00.147 --> 00:31:05.787 that's for spawning pipes and randomizing it and handling all that, you know, end 00:31:05.787 --> 00:31:11.667 game state as well, restarting the game, which again would be probably thousands of 00:31:11.667 --> 00:31:13.557 lines if you had to write it all yourself. 00:31:15.342 --> 00:31:19.822 CJ: And the taking it from the point that you're at now and embedding it 00:31:19.822 --> 00:31:25.562 into discord, like that, that part, I'm assuming like, that's part of 00:31:25.612 --> 00:31:29.472 where you're headed for this particular game, like, it sounds like it's, 00:31:29.482 --> 00:31:32.572 it's like, I mean, floppy birds, I guess, solo like single person thing. 00:31:33.012 --> 00:31:35.782 Was your, your idea to make it multiplayer or like have a 00:31:35.782 --> 00:31:37.512 leaderboard or kind of like what? 00:31:38.142 --> 00:31:38.302 Yeah. 00:31:38.302 --> 00:31:38.782 What's next 00:31:38.982 --> 00:31:43.252 Colin: So, I'm working on figuring out how to better support people 00:31:43.252 --> 00:31:45.162 bringing Unity games to Discord. 00:31:45.782 --> 00:31:49.702 And I needed to learn more about the tool first. 00:31:50.002 --> 00:31:52.942 And so I mostly did this just to learn where the heck everything is. 00:31:52.952 --> 00:31:55.462 And then I opened one of unity's sample apps. 00:31:55.472 --> 00:32:01.702 So they have an FPS first person shooter sample and like a Mario cart ask sample. 00:32:02.022 --> 00:32:05.092 And when I opened those ones, they were three D and I was immediately 00:32:05.092 --> 00:32:08.602 overwhelmed because I, again, I couldn't, I was like, I know where the UI is. 00:32:08.822 --> 00:32:10.782 But I don't know where the heck it's getting updated. 00:32:10.812 --> 00:32:13.222 And it turns out there's also like multiple scenes. 00:32:13.222 --> 00:32:15.922 And if you don't load the other scene, you can't even look at that stuff. 00:32:16.302 --> 00:32:21.812 So I had to like, what I was able to do after that tutorial with flappy 00:32:21.812 --> 00:32:25.362 bird was I was able to open the first person shooter game and then. 00:32:25.707 --> 00:32:30.657 Get that game embedded in discord and then also send data from unity 00:32:30.657 --> 00:32:34.567 to discord and from discord to unity So that was my ultimate goal. 00:32:34.577 --> 00:32:38.137 So that is all working, which is nice So when you load the first 00:32:38.137 --> 00:32:41.977 person shooter now, it has your username and your avatar in the game. 00:32:42.517 --> 00:32:46.677 It's still one single player So now I'm gonna start to think through like, 00:32:46.677 --> 00:32:47.917 okay, what does it look like to do? 00:32:48.397 --> 00:32:52.997 multiplayer And I need to figure out like are we gonna do? 00:32:53.767 --> 00:32:58.937 Does it make sense to just have the events from the SDK that we have 00:32:58.937 --> 00:33:02.587 now and just pass them on to Unity? 00:33:02.867 --> 00:33:05.587 Or can Unity get those events directly? 00:33:05.967 --> 00:33:10.107 And vice versa, like, can Uni Like, right now I'm Taking unity to make a call 00:33:10.107 --> 00:33:13.397 out to the JavaScript, the JavaScript, then making its call back to discord. 00:33:13.877 --> 00:33:17.627 Can we just cut that middle man out and just go straight to it? 00:33:17.977 --> 00:33:21.427 Cause we use like a post message protocol to do a lot of our stuff. 00:33:21.427 --> 00:33:24.387 So like, I'm pretty sure unity can just go straight to it, but that would 00:33:24.387 --> 00:33:29.157 just mean that we have a unity SDK, which I don't think the team wants 00:33:29.157 --> 00:33:30.617 to build right now, but we'll see. 00:33:30.717 --> 00:33:32.517 I mean, I think it makes sense too. 00:33:33.377 --> 00:33:36.857 CJ: And like, when you set up a game like this, I am assuming that 00:33:36.857 --> 00:33:40.447 like in dev, you're just running the game locally in your like local 00:33:40.467 --> 00:33:45.197 instance of unity, but in a production environment, it probably needs to be 00:33:45.197 --> 00:33:46.837 deployed to some server or something. 00:33:46.837 --> 00:33:47.177 Like, 00:33:47.557 --> 00:33:48.087 Colin: Yeah. 00:33:48.207 --> 00:33:49.897 CJ: like, how the heck does that even work? 00:33:50.272 --> 00:33:54.902 Colin: so getting this to run locally, I have to build the game, so I now have a 00:33:55.482 --> 00:34:01.212 An actual built target that I drop into my web app, I'm using a V app as my server. 00:34:01.212 --> 00:34:06.742 So I have v running as it's hosting the backend and, and node 00:34:06.742 --> 00:34:08.212 and then rendering the front end. 00:34:08.622 --> 00:34:12.822 And I'm just embedding the, the WebGL game from, from Unity. 00:34:13.482 --> 00:34:17.412 And in that JavaScript app is where I have to instantiate the embedded app. 00:34:17.412 --> 00:34:19.677 SDK for Discord, do all the auth. 00:34:20.227 --> 00:34:24.207 To the backend to get your access tokens and stuff like that. 00:34:24.637 --> 00:34:27.787 And so there is a lot, that's where like, when I say like web 00:34:27.787 --> 00:34:29.637 dev and game dev are not the same. 00:34:29.907 --> 00:34:32.367 There's a bunch of wiring that I don't think we should 00:34:32.367 --> 00:34:34.317 expect game devs to have to do. 00:34:34.757 --> 00:34:36.787 So I'm trying to figure out like, is there a way to take 00:34:36.787 --> 00:34:38.407 your build target, your game? 00:34:38.937 --> 00:34:42.467 And then we just build up all that stuff around it for you or like 00:34:42.467 --> 00:34:45.347 a skeleton or like, you know, how Vite and some of these others have 00:34:45.347 --> 00:34:48.397 like NPX create unity discord app. 00:34:48.767 --> 00:34:53.077 And we just like drop your build here and it just works because 00:34:53.077 --> 00:34:54.917 it's a lot of in our tutorials. 00:34:54.917 --> 00:34:57.567 I'm like, man, I wish we could cut out half this stuff. 00:34:57.567 --> 00:35:01.037 Like it's just something that every person has to do, but we 00:35:01.037 --> 00:35:02.267 should probably just do it for you. 00:35:02.317 --> 00:35:04.137 So I'm thinking through that as well. 00:35:04.147 --> 00:35:08.147 So it's, it's been a little side quest that is very much informing 00:35:08.147 --> 00:35:09.777 my actual work, which is helpful. 00:35:12.732 --> 00:35:18.022 CJ: Would absolutely love to watch you go through and just like from 00:35:18.022 --> 00:35:22.182 scratch, take the first person shooter and like do all the steps you've 00:35:22.182 --> 00:35:24.562 already done to put it into discord. 00:35:24.792 --> 00:35:26.032 Like for sure. 00:35:26.652 --> 00:35:30.102 I think that would be an insanely valuable video prerecorded or not, or 00:35:30.102 --> 00:35:33.222 like streamed or whatever, like that 00:35:33.247 --> 00:35:35.927 Colin: back to, that goes back to the making videos. 00:35:36.267 --> 00:35:36.777 So 00:35:37.102 --> 00:35:37.472 CJ: Yeah. 00:35:38.132 --> 00:35:38.512 Yeah. 00:35:38.782 --> 00:35:39.292 Colin: We'll have to do 00:35:39.477 --> 00:35:42.657 CJ: that's, that's your yeah, that's your your, your request. 00:35:42.737 --> 00:35:45.667 Colin: Yeah, well, if you and the kids get into unity, I'm very curious to 00:35:45.707 --> 00:35:50.567 talk about next episode because yeah, I think there's a lot to learn by us 00:35:50.597 --> 00:35:52.107 going into these other industries. 00:35:52.107 --> 00:35:54.087 And again, I think I said it last time. 00:35:54.447 --> 00:35:57.337 I don't understand why game devs have such a hard time. 00:35:57.387 --> 00:36:00.097 And maybe it's just that the companies don't value them. 00:36:00.097 --> 00:36:05.792 But like, It is hard to make a game like it is way harder than web development. 00:36:05.802 --> 00:36:09.522 So like the engineers, if you are game dev and you're looking 00:36:09.522 --> 00:36:13.332 for work, like pick up some web stuff and you are going to be set. 00:36:13.442 --> 00:36:14.812 It is a beast. 00:36:14.842 --> 00:36:17.522 You have to be thinking like you have game loops. 00:36:17.522 --> 00:36:19.912 You're thinking about something that's updating every second 00:36:20.052 --> 00:36:21.542 or every frame, really. 00:36:21.872 --> 00:36:26.462 And in web, you could do that with CSS animations and stuff like that, but you're 00:36:26.462 --> 00:36:30.582 not thinking of FPS and stuff like that when you're, You know, or even like in 00:36:30.582 --> 00:36:34.542 flappy bird, you have to like, when you move the bird, you have to multiply it 00:36:34.552 --> 00:36:39.772 by this time value because otherwise the bird will move at a different speed 00:36:39.772 --> 00:36:41.672 on each machine based on clock speed. 00:36:42.347 --> 00:36:43.177 CJ: Whoa. 00:36:43.422 --> 00:36:47.562 Colin: I guess in the tutorial, he was explaining that sometimes game studios 00:36:47.572 --> 00:36:52.562 will get this wrong and they tied like the item decay to the some value, but 00:36:52.562 --> 00:36:54.032 they didn't account for clock speed. 00:36:54.322 --> 00:36:56.692 And so like on some computers, the items are just like, to. 00:36:56.992 --> 00:37:00.472 Instantly disintegrating and on others they're fine. 00:37:00.532 --> 00:37:03.602 So you have to think about the machine that you're running on too. 00:37:04.797 --> 00:37:05.427 CJ: Interesting. 00:37:05.897 --> 00:37:06.237 Yeah. 00:37:06.287 --> 00:37:06.997 Way different. 00:37:07.027 --> 00:37:08.527 Way different than web dev. 00:37:08.772 --> 00:37:10.712 Colin: I guess we have we have date pickers to deal 00:37:10.712 --> 00:37:13.612 with but and and time zones 00:37:14.337 --> 00:37:15.177 CJ: It's so fun. 00:37:15.197 --> 00:37:19.422 Even just to like, I guess like thinking of that, like T shaped developer, right? 00:37:19.422 --> 00:37:25.132 Like it's so fun to reach out on the arms of that T and dabble in like weird 00:37:25.242 --> 00:37:28.822 side quests that aren't necessarily kind of like the main thing, whether that's 00:37:29.192 --> 00:37:34.772 networking or 3d printing or like any of these other little, little niches and game 00:37:34.772 --> 00:37:39.842 dev and, and mobile dev definitely feel like in that same vein for me, at least. 00:37:39.892 --> 00:37:40.972 So very cool. 00:37:40.982 --> 00:37:41.282 Awesome. 00:37:41.282 --> 00:37:41.862 That's exciting. 00:37:41.862 --> 00:37:46.382 I think Yeah, I, I I'll get the kids ready for during the holiday break. 00:37:46.392 --> 00:37:48.692 We're going to watch some Colin streaming some 00:37:48.692 --> 00:37:49.142 Colin: let's do 00:37:49.337 --> 00:37:50.367 CJ: of discord stuff. 00:37:50.517 --> 00:37:50.897 Yeah. 00:37:51.447 --> 00:37:53.287 Colin: What's going on in your world? 00:37:53.796 --> 00:37:56.246 CJ: So it is time for me to wind down from craftwork. 00:37:56.306 --> 00:37:59.536 I have decided that I'm going to close the, close the. 00:38:00.261 --> 00:38:03.601 Door and close that chapter of my career and move on to the next thing. 00:38:03.601 --> 00:38:07.951 So yeah, this I'm in the last two weeks now. 00:38:07.951 --> 00:38:11.681 So I'm kind of just like wrapping up projects, tying up loose ends, 00:38:11.731 --> 00:38:13.281 documenting a bunch of things. 00:38:13.701 --> 00:38:16.871 We've got like one big project that I'm like wrapping up like sort of 00:38:16.881 --> 00:38:20.541 disconnecting and integration now that we've fully built everything in house. 00:38:20.641 --> 00:38:25.411 And then, yeah, just trying to get the team set up as best they can, as best I 00:38:25.411 --> 00:38:27.481 can for them to succeed going forward. 00:38:27.481 --> 00:38:29.391 And I, I'm really pumped for them. 00:38:29.391 --> 00:38:32.871 I think it's going to be really successful and loved working with the team. 00:38:33.251 --> 00:38:37.131 So if you're a Rails dev and you're looking for your next opportunity, 00:38:37.131 --> 00:38:39.861 Craftwork definitely might be it. 00:38:39.986 --> 00:38:40.556 Colin: Nice. 00:38:40.636 --> 00:38:44.626 Yeah, i'm sure that the team is gonna miss you But what kind if you can talk 00:38:44.636 --> 00:38:46.016 about it, what kind of role are you? 00:38:46.606 --> 00:38:47.636 Heading into next. 00:38:48.291 --> 00:38:50.911 CJ: I am switching back into Dev Advocacy. 00:38:51.101 --> 00:38:55.941 So yeah, going back to Dev Advocacy at a company called Samsara. 00:38:56.511 --> 00:39:01.251 So they they're in like the IOT space, so everything will be brand new. 00:39:01.261 --> 00:39:01.981 We'll see. 00:39:02.201 --> 00:39:03.001 We'll see how it goes. 00:39:03.151 --> 00:39:03.291 By 00:39:03.326 --> 00:39:06.996 Colin: the time this comes out, yeah, Jinx you will probably have 00:39:06.996 --> 00:39:08.186 already been there for a little 00:39:08.291 --> 00:39:09.011 CJ: Yes. 00:39:09.031 --> 00:39:09.821 Yes. 00:39:10.041 --> 00:39:14.541 Colin: Which a little meta, but I'm curious to figure out how 00:39:14.541 --> 00:39:17.281 we can get these episodes to be closer to the recording date. 00:39:17.281 --> 00:39:21.311 We can talk about that offline, but I think there's a way we can do it. 00:39:21.311 --> 00:39:25.281 I don't think we have to, necessarily like go out every week by any means, 00:39:25.281 --> 00:39:29.281 but maybe there's a way for us to, you know, do live to tape or something. 00:39:29.281 --> 00:39:32.271 It just comes out the day we do it, but we'll, we'll figure it out. 00:39:33.781 --> 00:39:37.201 Cause I've been listening to our own episodes, which has been nice when 00:39:37.201 --> 00:39:39.881 they come out, because I'm like, it's almost like a journal where I'm 00:39:39.881 --> 00:39:41.471 looking back at the stuff that we did. 00:39:41.841 --> 00:39:45.631 And I'm like, wow, none of that came to pass or, or we nailed it. 00:39:45.671 --> 00:39:48.291 And we're like, oh, all the things we talked about came 00:39:48.291 --> 00:39:49.641 out exactly as we had hoped. 00:39:51.471 --> 00:39:51.801 CJ: Yeah. 00:39:51.801 --> 00:39:56.291 We, I think we have like six or something episodes right now recorded 00:39:56.291 --> 00:39:57.991 that are not like edited or published. 00:39:57.991 --> 00:39:58.531 So we are, 00:39:58.676 --> 00:40:00.806 Colin: That's like 12 weeks of content. 00:40:00.816 --> 00:40:03.566 So this will be coming out in May. 00:40:03.606 --> 00:40:03.776 No, 00:40:04.181 --> 00:40:06.031 CJ: yeah, yeah. 00:40:06.041 --> 00:40:07.881 End of Q1 next year or something. 00:40:07.921 --> 00:40:08.381 I don't know. 00:40:08.486 --> 00:40:11.726 Colin: I think we can maybe figure that out and maybe there might even be 00:40:11.726 --> 00:40:13.616 some episodes that we just skip over. 00:40:13.656 --> 00:40:16.906 They were good things that we can get it closer to time, but yeah, 00:40:16.926 --> 00:40:18.376 stoked for you, pumped for you. 00:40:18.906 --> 00:40:21.186 Welcome back to developer advocacy. 00:40:22.071 --> 00:40:22.681 CJ: Yes. 00:40:22.901 --> 00:40:26.781 Colin: I've got this, and I've not opened it yet, but the, the essential guide 00:40:26.781 --> 00:40:29.241 to developer marketing and relations. 00:40:29.791 --> 00:40:32.941 There's not a lot of books on DevRel, so I figured I'd just like read 00:40:32.941 --> 00:40:37.141 through the ones that are out there and see if I, Gaining the insights. 00:40:37.161 --> 00:40:40.621 But yeah, welcome back to the, the other side. 00:40:41.331 --> 00:40:41.861 CJ: Thank you. 00:40:42.121 --> 00:40:42.521 Yeah. 00:40:42.571 --> 00:40:44.061 It's I think it's going to be a little bit different. 00:40:44.061 --> 00:40:45.531 I think definitely different from Stripe. 00:40:45.531 --> 00:40:50.071 So the, it's the very first dev advocate they've had, or at least the 00:40:50.071 --> 00:40:51.631 first they've had in many, many years. 00:40:51.641 --> 00:40:54.421 So it'll be kind of like building the function from scratch, 00:40:54.421 --> 00:40:58.241 which I love that zero to one, so we're going to get into it. 00:40:58.721 --> 00:40:59.161 Yep. 00:40:59.471 --> 00:41:00.151 Colin: Very cool. 00:41:00.541 --> 00:41:03.851 Well, I guess that means maybe just learning some fun things in 00:41:03.851 --> 00:41:05.831 your holiday break with the kids. 00:41:06.021 --> 00:41:09.291 I'll definitely share this, this other tutorial because I think you'll appreciate 00:41:09.291 --> 00:41:10.961 just the way that he teaches too. 00:41:11.611 --> 00:41:13.011 And we can see what the kids built. 00:41:13.871 --> 00:41:14.841 CJ: Yes, totally. 00:41:14.901 --> 00:41:15.381 Totally. 00:41:15.541 --> 00:41:19.751 They're, they're just like the way that they're able to like wield AI 00:41:20.301 --> 00:41:23.111 is so shockingly impressive already. 00:41:23.141 --> 00:41:26.421 And so I have no doubt that they'll be able to pick this up 00:41:26.771 --> 00:41:27.331 Colin: Yeah. 00:41:27.451 --> 00:41:28.101 CJ: jet GPT. 00:41:28.171 --> 00:41:32.661 Colin: I imagine, I mean, there was like you know, kids who are born into iPads, 00:41:33.211 --> 00:41:37.771 these are essentially like AI native, your kids are going to be AI native kids where 00:41:37.771 --> 00:41:39.371 they're just used to growing up with it. 00:41:39.951 --> 00:41:44.111 I've seen it be a little bit of a, there was a little bit of a backlash 00:41:44.111 --> 00:41:50.251 on it in interviews where I think someone was like full on coffee pasta. 00:41:51.241 --> 00:41:56.391 Off screen and like accidentally pasted the entire answer into like the on 00:41:56.391 --> 00:42:00.531 screen thing and then like immediately pulled it back and hope that no one 00:42:00.531 --> 00:42:05.941 had seen it and it's just like, okay, you're not if this is like an interview 00:42:05.941 --> 00:42:09.751 where you Don't necessarily need to finish, but we want to see how you 00:42:09.761 --> 00:42:11.211 think and how you work through things. 00:42:11.581 --> 00:42:15.931 And then there's like a principal's interview, like you're going to fail. 00:42:15.991 --> 00:42:17.421 Like, it's just not going to go well. 00:42:17.451 --> 00:42:20.781 And I think we still don't allow AI in our interviews. 00:42:21.091 --> 00:42:22.481 But we very much encourage it. 00:42:22.481 --> 00:42:27.416 And we're like, what our AI strategy is for like, I see like, 00:42:27.416 --> 00:42:28.436 what are you allowed to use? 00:42:28.436 --> 00:42:29.396 What can you use? 00:42:29.416 --> 00:42:30.136 How do we use it? 00:42:30.586 --> 00:42:34.196 Honestly, I still haven't found any use for image generation. 00:42:34.316 --> 00:42:39.366 Like I just don't like how it looks when it comes out and I don't really 00:42:39.436 --> 00:42:43.826 have that much like use for it rather than like, I find that I need icons 00:42:43.826 --> 00:42:45.876 and stuff more often than like images. 00:42:46.266 --> 00:42:49.006 So like a mid journey doesn't really do what I need it to do. 00:42:49.366 --> 00:42:49.386 Yeah. 00:42:49.446 --> 00:42:54.566 But from my writing, like I'm still using Grammarly and Copilot and Cursor. 00:42:54.576 --> 00:42:59.406 So they're they've become essential, but I could still do my work without them. 00:42:59.466 --> 00:43:00.656 If I did not have them. 00:43:01.636 --> 00:43:02.906 CJ: Yeah, absolutely. 00:43:02.906 --> 00:43:06.946 I think the it's, it's been funny to see the like interview cheating. 00:43:07.386 --> 00:43:10.276 The trend, there was a fireship, there's a funny fireship video about 00:43:10.276 --> 00:43:14.826 like the rate of, of people cheating on technical interviews with a, with AI. 00:43:15.206 --> 00:43:19.566 And I think interviews will just have to shift. 00:43:19.576 --> 00:43:23.096 It'll be like an arms race of like, you know, how do you make, how do you ask a 00:43:23.096 --> 00:43:24.966 question that can't be answered by AI? 00:43:24.976 --> 00:43:28.176 Like you have to demonstrate some understanding instead of just like 00:43:28.776 --> 00:43:30.676 being able to read off of some answer. 00:43:31.136 --> 00:43:34.496 Maybe, I don't know, like I guess the other part Part of it is like, 00:43:34.496 --> 00:43:40.536 if you're proficient enough at like using in some LLM to cheat at a at 00:43:40.536 --> 00:43:44.876 a technical interview, then you, maybe you're like also proficient 00:43:44.876 --> 00:43:47.746 enough to use AI to do the job. 00:43:47.956 --> 00:43:48.376 So, 00:43:48.636 --> 00:43:49.586 Colin: That was the argument, right? 00:43:49.586 --> 00:43:53.396 Is like, if it's important to do the thing and you demonstrate, you can do the thing. 00:43:53.406 --> 00:43:54.926 Does it matter how you got to the thing? 00:43:54.926 --> 00:43:59.176 And it's like, well yeah, if the interview specifically said not to I 00:43:59.176 --> 00:44:03.436 mean, if it was in pre AI world, it'd be the equivalent of taking a stack 00:44:03.446 --> 00:44:06.046 overflow and putting it off as your own. 00:44:06.446 --> 00:44:10.316 I think if you know what you're going to be tested on and you use those tools 00:44:10.336 --> 00:44:14.530 as prep or like a pairing partner, sure. 00:44:14.921 --> 00:44:15.231 Right. 00:44:15.271 --> 00:44:17.731 That is what I would use it for. 00:44:17.731 --> 00:44:21.431 Like, have it spar with you, have it throw out questions, pretend 00:44:21.431 --> 00:44:25.791 to be your interviewer and give you prompts and learn from it. 00:44:25.841 --> 00:44:28.661 I'm, we didn't talk about at the top of the show, but like I am 00:44:28.661 --> 00:44:30.081 using Advent of Code for that. 00:44:30.421 --> 00:44:32.731 I am doing my first pass without AI. 00:44:33.501 --> 00:44:38.181 And then I'm asking AI to refactor or tell me if there's a faster 00:44:38.181 --> 00:44:39.971 way, a better way, a different way. 00:44:40.281 --> 00:44:41.411 What didn't I think about? 00:44:41.461 --> 00:44:42.541 And then I'm learning from it. 00:44:42.611 --> 00:44:43.791 Am I going to use that? 00:44:44.351 --> 00:44:48.641 You know, a lot of the AOC codes are not, are not necessarily things 00:44:48.641 --> 00:44:49.771 you're going to do in your day to day. 00:44:50.071 --> 00:44:53.391 So like, you're like, cool, run through all these numbers and find the most 00:44:53.391 --> 00:44:55.201 different one every fourth time. 00:44:55.801 --> 00:44:56.201 Sure. 00:44:56.376 --> 00:44:58.576 Like, I'm sure there's 20 different ways to do it. 00:44:58.986 --> 00:45:02.966 Now, if these get trained on enough different things, like, are we all 00:45:02.966 --> 00:45:07.196 gonna end up at the same answer, or varying states of bad answers? 00:45:07.216 --> 00:45:08.076 We'll see, but 00:45:08.576 --> 00:45:09.556 CJ: I've been of code this year. 00:45:09.556 --> 00:45:12.856 I opened up cursor and like pasted in the example. 00:45:12.886 --> 00:45:14.936 And then it was just like, tab, tab, tab, ran it. 00:45:14.936 --> 00:45:15.896 And it was the right answer. 00:45:15.896 --> 00:45:17.006 I was like, that wasn't any 00:45:17.331 --> 00:45:18.911 Colin: Yeah, that's the thing too, right? 00:45:19.016 --> 00:45:20.216 CJ: takes away the fun. 00:45:20.406 --> 00:45:20.896 Yeah. 00:45:20.896 --> 00:45:21.636 It's like, 00:45:21.741 --> 00:45:23.281 Colin: Now it depends on what you're doing, right? 00:45:23.281 --> 00:45:26.781 Like if your job was just to get it done and you don't care to have fun and you 00:45:26.881 --> 00:45:28.791 don't want to spend an hour on it, cool. 00:45:29.211 --> 00:45:33.161 But if you want to work the brain, I think this is like working out, right? 00:45:33.161 --> 00:45:34.421 If you don't use it, you're going to lose it. 00:45:34.431 --> 00:45:36.301 So keep doing it. 00:45:36.441 --> 00:45:40.201 And I'm sure, like, I think we, I listened to our AI episode too. 00:45:40.211 --> 00:45:41.891 That was the one where it was like looking back. 00:45:41.891 --> 00:45:45.151 I'm like, wow, six weeks has already been so different. 00:45:45.281 --> 00:45:48.131 But well, I'm sure we will come back to that topic more. 00:45:48.211 --> 00:45:50.221 And Yeah, we can probably leave it there. 00:45:50.261 --> 00:45:51.071 We're at 50. 00:45:51.071 --> 00:45:51.091 I'll 00:45:51.466 --> 00:45:52.366 CJ: Sounds great. 00:45:52.496 --> 00:45:53.016 Awesome. 00:45:53.186 --> 00:45:53.576 Yeah. 00:45:53.576 --> 00:45:55.126 Thanks so much for listening. 00:45:55.126 --> 00:45:59.686 If You want to check out the links to resources and the videos and blog 00:45:59.686 --> 00:46:02.006 posts that we talked about in this episode, head over to build and learn. 00:46:02.006 --> 00:46:04.346 dev where you can find all of those. 00:46:04.776 --> 00:46:05.466 Thanks for listening. 00:46:05.466 --> 00:46:06.782 We'll see you next time. 00:46:07.486 --> 00:46:08.076 Bye friends.