Napkin Math

Sabba talks about how he uses ChatGPT, Charlie talks use cases for Claude Code and the duo debate whether the UK is an impossible place  to bootstrap. Sabba also share lessons on hiring top talent early, and dissect Duolingo’s $1billion freemium play (with a  15% churn rate) before comparing it to VEED’s freemium vs free trial approach.


  • 00:00 Intro
  • 00:28 How a VC-backed founder uses ChatGPT
  • 06:52 Use cases of Claude Code
  • 13:25 Napkin Math AI Animation
  • 16:14 Is the UK impossible to bootstrap?
  • 20:34 Hiring great talent early on
  • 25:31 Duolingo's $1billion freemium approach with 15% churn
  • 36:04 VEEDs approach to freemium vs free trial

Creators and Guests

Host
Charlie Ward
Founder: Ramen Club, Ramen Space & Cosy
Host
Sabba Keynejad
Co-founder, VEED.IO

What is Napkin Math?

Join Sabba Keynejad (co-founder of VEED.io) and Charlie Ward (founder of Ramen Club) as they dive deep into the world of startups, AI, and the latest tech trends. These two legends of the London indie scene bring their no-nonsense, real-world insights to help founders, builders, and indie hackers navigate the highs and lows of entrepreneurship. Expect candid conversations, actionable takeaways, and the occasional hot take on where the future of business is headed.

Whether you're bootstrapping your way to success or scaling your next big idea, Napkin Math is your go-to podcast for unfiltered discussions on what it really takes to win in the startup game.