Rob: Hello and welcome back.
It is time for you to tune in your subspace radios to
us, Rob Lloyd and my co-host.
Kevin: Kevin Yank.
Rob: How are you?
Kevin: I'm well how about you?
Rob: I'm very well.
This has been about seven days since we have spoken last
uh, stardate um, zero zero.
We'll go, let's go original series stardates that
Kevin: That don't matter.
They don't make any sense.
Have you noticed, did you notice that Strange New Worlds has
returned to that classic pattern of stardates that make no sense?
Rob: I didn't know that, but that makes sense.
So maybe in the timeline it used to make sense, but they're at the
point where it doesn't anymore.
Kevin: Yeah, I'll put a link in the show notes for anyone
who wants to have a look at it.
But there was like a season wrap up of Strange New Worlds, all of the episodes
of season one and season two, and it showed the star dates for each one.
They're in completely random order, like the last episode of season
two happens before an episode that's halfway through season one.
So they are, they're literally going, you know what?
They didn't make sense back then.
We're not gonna make now
Rob: If you're tuning in for the first time, welcome, and as you can tell, we
are here to talk all things Star Trek.
Kevin: We are.
We just jump right in.
That's what we do around here.
Rob: We are here to talk about the latest Lower Decks episode,
season four, episode three.
The Cradle of Vexilon.
Kevin: Alamalein!
Lemon meringue.
Rob: Exactly.
Another Deep Space Nine reference, but a deeper cut Deep Space Nine
reference to those of you out there.
So we're gonna talk about the episode, what our thoughts are of it, and that
as always leads into deeper discussions about a broader topic connected with
the uh, oeuvre that is uh, Star Trek.
Mr.
Kevin Yank!
Your thoughts on The Cradle of Vexilon?
Kevin: Uh, this was, this was good.
I would say probably not in my top five of Lower Decks so far, but uh,
a perfectly serviceable episode.
Some good character building, especially for Boimler.
And uh, yeah a nice adventure on not quite a planet.
Rob: Not quite a planet, but um, bringing in this whole, like round
space station type existence.
It was in early literature in like, oh well, early modern sci-fi literature
in late sixties type of sci-fi writing.
It was brought in recently into uh, Book of Boba Fett.
They had a rings shaped space station as well.
And so it's been around and it's like the thought process has been in the
sci-fi zeitgeist for some time and it's been brought here into Lower Decks.
Kevin: By Star Trek standards.
It is actually kind of unimpressive, this ring structure because we've
seen something more impressive before, and that's the Dyson sphere.
Back in the Next Generation episode, Relics, which was season six, episode
four, and featured the memorable Return of Montgomery Scott to living, he
was, he came out of the transporter buffer in that episode and resumed
his life in the 24th century.
In that episode, the Enterprise is trapped inside a Dyson sphere, which
is a spherical structure around a star, and the entire inner surface of that
sphere is habitable because it's built at the right distance from the star.
It's this incredible structure that's oh, so many times the
surface area of a typical planet.
It's just mind-boggling that exists.
So I have to say this, this ring, it was kind of a yawn for me by comparison.
Rob: Yeah, yeah.
I could see the shade you are automatically throwing onto
this cradle of existence.
Kevin: But seriously, it was, it was pretty cool.
Like I love a, a, a novel location and we, they certainly gave us that here.
Rob: Look, and the inhabitants of this world were all artsy types who, you
know the challenge of their existence is the weather's been playing up a little
bit because their computer system, which is a good computer system, not
one of those evil computer systems
Kevin: Improbably, yeah.
Rob: yeah, that runs this program.
It's weather system it needs a bit of rebooting or
something needs to be updated.
So the weather patterns have been changing and that means the artists there haven't
to be been able to create their best work.
Oh my bleeding heart.
And of course a great moment is where Ransom looks upon some of the artwork
and goes, oh, this is horrible.
It's terrible.
He goes Um, that's our best work.
And then the camera moves and you see pretty much the exact same work.
He goes, oh, so juvenile and pedestrian.
Kevin: Yeah, it was such a cheap joke, but it got me too.
Rob: Um, so we have split stories.
We have the captain and Ransom dealing with uh, having to reboot the
computer system that runs this sphere.
We've got Boimler on his first ever away mission, and our C plot is
uh, Mariner, Tendi and Rutherford
Kevin: Scanning isolinear chips.
Rob: Yes, and just trying to figure out whether they're being hazed or
whether this is legitimate or not.
So yeah, it's pretty much stock standard Lower Decks type stuff with
nothing really exceptional in there.
Apart from T'Lyn was in fine form again.
Three episodes in, she's had a pretty much a hundred percent strike rate.
She was in the first episode, brilliant.
Third episode, brilliant.
So she's a great addition and, um, really helping Boimler sorta
like lose that anxiety and take on board the responsibility of
leadership for him to see it properly.
And uh, leading to the point where, I dunno if I wanna bring
it up so soon, but he dies.
Kevin: Is this first time?
I'm not sure it's the first time.
Rob: I think it's the first time for Boimler, for Brad.
But it's not the first time one of our lead characters has died.
And it's the point where Ransom said, ah, you've had your first death.
Ah, every mission gets even worse from now on.
And have a moment where we are in this afterlife type world,
which is a bit Twin Peaks.
So much so that we have, the Koala speaking, possibly
backwards, that we understand
Kevin: Yeah.
No, I have not deciphered what the Koala is saying yet.
Rob: The red curtains were there.
We had the pattern on the floor, which is very like the red room in Twin Peaks
and the dark tower in the background.
Kevin: Yeah, I was wondering what the reference was.
I am not so familiar with Twin Peaks that I caught that connection.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: they are pulling from something here.
I'm not sure what it
Rob: They're going to the depths of uh, uh, Lynchian uh, mythology
with, his masterpiece, Twin Peaks.
Yeah, it was a um, standard type of episode with little
highlights and dialogue moments.
And it revealed the Relic Room, Which is apparently all these famous pieces
of Star Trek history, artifacts, are all on a California class ship?
Kevin: It's very strange.
Nomad is in there,
Rob: Nomad is in there.
Yeah.
Kevin: first time I think we've seen
Rob: We've Nomad before.
Kevin: Star Trek.
Quite a few things in there.
The annoying uh, Beta
Rob: Betazoid gift box.
Kevin: Yeah, lots of fun stuff and they used most of it in this episode,
so we'll see if they return to that
Rob: And one of the devices that, was that the episode where
Picard lives out his entire life
Kevin: Yes.
Yes.
And as far as I can tell, they don't actually tell us
what that device is out loud.
They leave it to us to infer.
But, when it hits the box and it says, for the second time this
season, I miss my wife, you, you,
Rob: doesn't relate to Sullivan.
It to Picard leave Leaving his wife behind in the
Kevin: The Inner Light.
Yes.
Uh, One of, and I think for my money, my favorite episode of Next Gen.
The only downside to the Inner Light, it is very much a Picard focused episode.
So it's not really an ensemble piece.
And so it's almost not a Next Generation story, it's more of a Picard story, but
uh, certainly pulls with the heartstrings and gives Patrick Stewart plenty to do.
Rob: That leads on a friend of mine, Tom Linsky, who's a huge
uh, improviser, comedy writer.
He's a huge Star Trek fan.
He's going through every episode at the moment and reviewing it
online and with his uh, blog.
He sorta like, uh, reached out for people who would like to review
episodes of Deep Space Nine.
Put my hand up, and he said which one do you want to do?
And I immediately, immediately went to well, Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang.
But then oh no.
That'd be easy 'cause I love it and I adore it and nobody will wanna
pick it 'cause everyone's gonna go for Trials and Tribble-ations.
I'm going hang on, which one is my favorite because I
haven't watched it for a while.
So I went back and watched Trials and Tribble-ations.
I went, oh, but this is really good.
This is really, really good.
And then I watched Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang and went, oh, this one's good too.
Kevin: There's different favorites for different occasions.
I used to love the Way of the Warrior that used to be my favourite Deep Space Nice.
Rob: Very good.
Yeah.
And hello, welcome back Worf.
Yeah.
Just what we needed.
But anyway, I digress.
Lot of references there and I dunno if it all you know, makes sense.
Kevin: I loved the lemon meringue gag, not just because I am a
secret fan of the Alamarein game.
I think that episode gets unwarranted shade from the fans.
It's an early DS9 episode, and I think people react negatively to the fact
the rug being pulled out at the end and the, all the stakes of the episode
disappearing as our cast collapse onto the floor of Quark's bar, but I really
enjoy that, that like maze that they have to work their way through and watching
the characters work it out together.
I have great fun every time I watch that one.
And lemon meringue is my favorite dessert.
Rob: There you go.
I'm a pumpkin pie man,
Kevin: Ooh,
Rob: With a bit of ice cream.
Yum-yum-yum.
I particularly liked the fact that, me being a casual computer game fan, it very
much gave the impression of, with Ruthford going through it really quickly and just
going, all right, bang, bang, bang, bang, okay, gotta move on to the next level.
And the guy in the game was really excited.
Which drink do you do?
He goes, no, I'll give a hit.
He goes, oh, the disappointment of going, oh, I don't get to do my bit.
I really wanted to do my bit.
Kevin: Yeah, the little girl was pretty upset as well that he
didn't celebrate room with her.
Rob: Yeah.
She's halfway through and he's already out the door going, I'm out.
I'm gone.
Kevin: Open the door quick.
I think one of the reasons this episode wasn't a highlight for me is a lot of the
stakes were around Captain Freeman hacking at the computer and I feel like every
time we step away from the characters we love, the Lower Deckers we love and we
tell a story where one of the bridge crew is in the lead, it loses me a little bit.
Especially when that bridge crew story does not directly affect
the characters we care about.
So yeah, Captain Freeman stepped up and was like, I can
do this with my eyes closed.
I used to study ancient uh, technology.
Oh, I messed it up.
And it was kind of like, uh, I don't really care.
I don't know why I should care.
The stakes here were, were kind of low the entire time.
Rob: Freeman did roll, she did roll up her sleeves though,
Kevin: She did roll up and I think maybe what annoys me about Freeman
in this episode is she's a lot like her daughter at her worst.
Rob: Yes.
Because she goes, I can do this.
I can sort this up and go, what?
And you could look at a way of going well, that's where finally we can
see where our Mariner gets it from.
Where it comes from.
Kevin: She goes as far as, finally she admits defeat and has Billups beam down,
and then she cuts Billups off mid-sentence and goes back to trying to fix it herself.
Rob: Yeah, it was a, it was a little bit of a insight into the annoyingness that
is potentially there within uh, freeman.
Kevin: Plus, and this is over analyzing it, but the idea that the computer, the
ancient computer that had been on its own for millennia because its creators
had died, the problem that it had was that it was missing a software update.
That doesn't make sense 'cause there was no one to write that software update.
Programmers were long dead.
I was like, software update, what are you talking about?
At least, consult your science advisor, writers, and have,
like it should have been, you're overdue for system maintenance
or a defrag of your hard drive.
Something like that would've made a lot more sense than, oh, you need to download
a software update from your central update server, that there's no one left alive to
Rob: Yeah, see I, I should have paid more attention to that, but I wanted
to know more about a spittle jazz.
What was it?
Kevin: It's Tellarite jazz.
Rob: Tellarite jazz.,
it's like phlegm and spit, and going into great detail about that.
Kevin: Yeah, it's wet and that's why I like it.
Rob: It did provide that great moment when they put up, they thought they were
being hazed, then they set up all the devices within the within his quarters,
and then they just starts freaking out going, he was caught in there for a month.
And so they take away and Marr turns back and goes, lose the stuff!
Get it out.
And then it works out all at the end, they were hazing them, which
was um, for me it was a bit Oh, okay.
Yeah, I guess so.
Kevin: Okay.
It, yeah, it was a, it ended on a cheap joke, but it was, it par for
the course for Lower Decks, I thought.
Rob: I did love the fact that Boimler dies, he's brought back, and
the first thing he hears is doctor go, that actually fucking worked?
Kevin: Yeah.
I enjoyed Boimler dying.
Just 'cause it gave us some time with Dr.
T'Ana.
She delights me every time.
Rob: As she should.
As she should.
So, yeah.
Anything else you wanna add about the episode?
Kevin: No, other than that final shot of uh, the Cerritos hovering next to
the ring and the sun casting a shadow of the ship against the ring, I, I was
once again dazzled by, you know what, if this were uh, the, you know, live
action series, someone would've said, can we afford a shadow on the ring?
And they would've said, no.
That would be another week of CG uh, design.
We can't afford it, but in Lower Decks we get the beauty, we
get the extra shadow as well.
And I, I, I just, I was struck by how often have we seen one of our
ships cast a shadow on something?
Almost never.
And there it is, just casually at the end of the episode.
Rob: And no uh, no arc menace this week we didn't return to
Kevin: No, they're giving that a break.
They're giving us time to forget it, so it when it comes back again.
Rob: Did they even know who we are, Kevin?
I.
We never forget.
Kevin: Yeah.
But the, the heart of this episode, I felt was Boimler's mission,
his first mission in command.
I really liked that the reactors that they were replacing the
cylinders on, looked like the engine cores of the Enterprise NX-01.
Rob: Yes.
Always, always love a good reference back to, to Enterprise, now that
I've seen a couple of episodes, of the good ones where I can go.
Yeah
Kevin: That's all right!
Thought that maybe like first commands or lessons in command would be a good thing
to drill into in our Star Trek history.
Rob: Most definitely Kevin.
Most definitely.
So as always, we go um, uh, chronologically because um, that
does make sense in some way,
Kevin: You got any Enterprise?
Rob: I do not have any Enterprise.
Do you have any uh, those
Kevin: I've got a season one original series for you.
Rob: Is this gonna be one of those ones where, where Kirk goes off and it's
Spock in command and McCoy's in his ear going, nah, ya green blooded Vulcan.
Kevin: Look, it's not not one of those.
Rob: Because there going, is that all there pretty much is when it comes to, you
know, leadership stuff, it's just Kirk, buggers off and Spock has to deal with all
the balance of vulcan and human emotions and whether that works as a leader.
Kevin: And look, depending what gossip rag you read um, William Shatner
did not enjoy playing second fiddle or, or, or like receding into the
background on his own TV series.
And some of those episodes where Kirk is kind of to the side to let
Spock and McCoy shine were not his favorite, so goes some of the lore
that eh, may or may not be right.
Who knows?
Rob: Leading actor has ego and, it does not want to share limelight?
Kevin: But uh, we're here to talk about season one, episode 13, The Galileo Seven.
Rob: Galileo Seven.
Talk us through this episode.
Kevin: So this is a episode in which Spock is in command of a shuttle mission on the
Galileo uh, which uh, we saw a second or third iteration of in Prodigy as well.
The, the, the ship that crashed with Garrovick on board was the Galileo.
But this was the first Galileo, and uh, it's a lovely title, The Galileo Seven.
It refers to the seven people who are on board that shuttle, but also
as the shuttle is taking off, you can see it's badge on the side.
It's NCC-1701 / 7, and they numbered the shuttles with these slash numbers.
So it was both shuttle number seven and it had these fated seven people on board.
And it was Spock, Scotty McCoy, and four people who are expendable,
because we've never seen and we will never see them again.
Not all wearing red shirts.
I think even uh, by episode 13 they had caught on to the fact that if
they dressed someone in a red shirt, we would assume they would die.
So they like to surprise us.
Rob: Ah, well look at them.
They're, they're, they're breaking the paradigm.
Kevin: The Enterprise is on its way to deliver some much needed
medicine in two days, but on the way they spot a quasar like formation
and Kirk goes, hold the phone.
I have standing orders to investigate all quasar like formations.
We're gonna stop here.
We've got two days up our sleeves.
Spock is gonna go off in a shuttle and scan this thing and the shuttle
gets magnetically zapped into this swirling maelstrom of green special
effects particles in space and uh, is lost track of by the Enterprise.
The Enterprise can, all they can tell is there's four full solar systems
in this anomaly, and they have no idea where the shuttle has gone.
But the shuttle has crash landed miraculously on the one M class
planet in all of these solar systems.
But they are on the ground and marooned with no transporters, no communications.
They are.
All on their own.
And Spock is in command of this motley crew.
And we get to see Spock learn the practice of command beyond the theory of command.
This is one of those ones where Spock is like constantly doing what
he knows factually is the right thing, and it goes wrong every
single time he's being too logical.
Towards the end of this episode, after two of his crewmen have died,
he says, Strange, step by step, I've made the correct and logical
decisions, and yet two men have died.
And uh, McCoy is right there on board to second guess his every decision
and be really grumpy about it.
When Spock leaves earshot, the crew kind of start to, you know,
go, oh, is he out of his mind?
I can't believe he won't let us shoot these aliens who are attacking us.
And McCoy says, it's not his mind, that's the problem.
It's his heart.
There's a lot of um, arguing about whether they will run the risk of
burying their dead because they have to go outside and dig a hole and
Spock's saying it's, it's too risky.
That stuff, I think, back in the sixties there was a lot more of that
kind of religious dogma on television and the idea that if someone dies,
you must give them a proper burial, was, I think that was much more high
stakes back then than it reads now.
Right now I think a modern audience looks at it and goes, yeah, I will not
go outside and bury our dead because we will get killed in the process.
But yeah, the, they're, the planet they're on has these giant, hairy caveman
type beings that throw spears at them.
And yeah, two of the crewmen get speared as Scotty works his butt off to try and
get this Galileo shuttle airborne again.
They uh, they lose all of their fuel to a leak.
And then Scotty has a genius idea of refueling the shuttle with their phasers.
So one by one, they have to give up their phasers, their last line of
defense in order to refuel the shuttle.
Spock learns the value of thinking beyond logic in leadership.
Rob: Yep.
Although it was probably one of the first times in well, it was one of
the first times in the original series that was a common trait that would be a
storyline with any other Vulcan character that appeared in the decades to come.
Kevin: Yeah.
At the end they finally get the, this shuttle airborne, just as the
Enterprise is forced to leave and Spock realizes it's too late, they've
missed their chance to be rescued.
And then he looks down at the panel and he flips the eject fuel button
and the entire crew goes, are you insane that we need that fuel?
But he, he ignites the fuel behind them to throw up a signal flare and the
Enterprise swings back and rescues them.
And the moral of the story is Spock would never have done such an illogical,
desperate thing if he hadn't learned the value of uh, leading with his gut.
Rob: There you go.
There you go.
What an important lesson you just had to sacrifice a couple of
different colored shirted, crew.
Kevin: This is an episode that the canon purists have a little trouble
with now that we are seeing in Strange New Worlds, Spock operating as a bridge
officer and occasionally taking command because there are a couple of mentions
in this episode of it being notable that Spock is in command on this mission.
There's a conversation with McCoy where McCoy goes, oh, you must
be relishing this opportunity to show for the first time that logic
is the right basis for a command.
And that is open to interpretation, but then the, as they are sitting on the
ship in, in their decaying orbit awaiting rescue McCoy says to Spock, Well, Mr.
Spock, so ends your first command.
And Spock says Yes.
My first command.
And so it's, there's not a lot left open to interpretation there.
Rob: That's pretty clear what they've said right there.
Kevin: So every time Spock sits in the command chair on the Enterprise,
yeah, fans are going, hang on.
We know when his first command is.
It's The Galileo Seven.
I think we can squint and say like, your first command is not filling in for the
captain while he is away on a mission.
Your first command is when you are given a ship.
That ship goes off to do something, and it's entirely up to you whether those
people return alive or not, and perhaps under that definition, this Galileo
Seven mission was Spock's first command.
Rob: Look, there's, there, there's so many loopholes that you can set up.
When it comes to the, timelines and continuity is a tricky thing.
And if you, if you tie yourself too to the canonical inaccuracies of a
show, you are fighting a losing battle.
Kevin: The last thing that happens in the episode is one of those classic
final scenes on the bridge where Spock is confronted by Kirk and Bones trying to
get him to admit that he was illogical.
And they're like, so let me get this straight.
You flip that switch.
That seems like an act of desperation.
And Spock says, ah, I absolutely agree.
And Kirk goes well, correct me if I'm wrong, but desperation is a
highly emotional state, is it not?
And Spock says well, you know, by logic, I reasoned that
was our only way of escaping.
And so, uh, an act of desperation was what was needed.
And Kirk says, so you're saying you logically concluded that it
was time for an emotional outburst?
And Spock refuses to take the bait.
And the entire bridge crew laugh it up, like literally knee slapping and Scotty's
doubled over in laughter at his station.
And the whole time I'm sitting there going, three people died, two people on
the shuttle and one on one of the rescue missions, and they're flying off into the
sunset slapping their knees and laughing.
These are the things about Star Trek that don't age well.
Rob: Yes.
And uh, yeah, and Leonard Nimoy raises an eyebrow and uh, they freeze
frame with, yeah, it's all okay.
Yeah, they freeze frame and they put the producers on there and it's just
another sitcom from the eighties.
Well there you go.
Kevin: There you go.
So the lesson about command that we get in The Galileo Seven is sometimes you
gotta lead from your gut, not your head.
Rob: Exactly, and you know, it's, it's best not to be completely gut or
heart led or completely uh, brain led.
Find that perfect synergy.
Kevin: Yeah.
Well, T'Lyn won't be able to teach Boimler that lesson.
Rob: No, she won't.
Now I'm gonna go for my main focus episode.
I went to Voyager.
Kevin: Ooh.
Rob: Yep.
I went to Voyager, season six, episode 20, Good Shepherd.
Kevin: Ooh.
Uh, Is this uh, uh, the, the title lets me think.
Maybe it was uh, one of those holodeck episodes with the man who
misses his wife, but it's not, is it?
Rob: It is not, no, it's an episode where they're doing their routine
checks on how everything's working, and this is where we're introduced to
some lower deck type uh, cast members.
It's a really good episode that indicated this is what Voyager should have been.
Kevin: Oh, heck yeah.
This is a great one.
Rob: Yeah.
So we find three of the members of the crew who aren't fitting in.
They are the outsiders and they are the ones who, if they were in their regular
part of the galaxy, if they're a part of regular Starfleet regulation, these
members of the crew would either have moved on to other positions within their
cycle of their routine within Starfleet.
However, because of them being trapped, they are stuck there on their ship.
Kevin: Yeah, can't wash out if they're stuck in the quadrant but otherwise they
would've been given um, you know, cozy janitorial jobs at Starfleet command.
Rob: Yes.
Or moved on into, you know, more research positions or whatever.
So we have three crew, uh, in particular we've got Mortimer
Harren, who will not leave his deck.
Deck 15, he's there all the time.
He's never done an away mission.
He's never done anything other than, he doesn't even socialize with people.
He is stuck there.
He is incredibly bright, incredibly smart, incredibly intelligent, but
he does not work well with people.
Kevin: Is he afraid of leaving his deck or
Rob: No, he well, he's, he, he is now what we would call, uh, neurodivergent.
He's like on the spectrum, clearly.
He is all logic based and he believes he's always right.
He is all about the logical approach and all this type of stuff, and doesn't
use that instinct or that passion or that gut that a member of staff
lead in, in leadership or crew needs.
We have William Telfer, who is a hypochondriac who is
always going to see The Doctor.
He has used up so much of The Doctor's energy and power, literally because
rashes or breathing too much or breathing too little, or sweating
too much or whatever is causing him and causing The Doctor's system not
to run as efficiently as it could.
And of course we have the Bajoran in there Tal uh, Celes, who is always wracked with
self-doubt, does not believe in herself.
And so there's a big talk from Janeway discussing it with Chakotay and the
others about what the role of a captain is, is to be a shepherd and tend to the
flock and make sure all the sheep in her flock are looked after and supported and
can be drawn in and looked after safely.
She takes them, all three of them, on an away mission in uh, the Delta flyer.
And uh, they get caught up in a quite harrowing experience and they need to
work together to get themselves out of it.
And it tests Janeway's ability as a captain, and it tests these three
members of the crew who they revealed themselves of what they wanted to
do, where they should have gone.
Tal Celes is there going, I should be out of Starfleet.
I shouldn't be here.
I should done my rounds and then moved on.
Heron says, I'm meant to be serving my time here for a couple of rotations
and move into my cushy research job.
And Telfa is there going, I, I'm afraid of everything.
And yeah, going through the uh, the challenges of that and how
Janeway copes with that situation.
And it's a really good indication of what it is to be a member of Starfleet and,
but also what it is to be a captain on a ship and how you look after your crew.
And as she said, these are three sheep who have fallen through the cracks.
Sorry for my metaphors.
And it's a beautiful final moment where uh, Chakotay goes, how did
the shepherd go with her flock?
And he goes, we came across a wolf.
Because they, they come across an unidentified, there's a species and
they're not sure what it is, and whether it's attacking or trying to communicate.
And uh, yeah, it's a great episode that really shows that potential
of what Voyager could have been.
These characters could have been reoccurring regulars.
They could have been there.
We could have seen their journey.
And it's a shame we don't really see
Kevin: Crams it all into one episode.
Rob: Crams it all into one episode.
And then as always, we just go back, set the reset button and move on.
This is a prime example.
This should have been, the middle section of an arc
Kevin: Yeah.
If nothing else, they should have become recurring, extras where we see
them now and then every season or two.
Yeah the lieutenant Careys of the ship.
Rob: Yes, exactly.
Kevin: become some of those.
Rob: Um, So yeah cast of note, you've got Jay Underwood there as uh, Harron.
I grew up with him watching in the, the Boy Who Could Fly.
He was amazing.
Um, He plays Haron really well.
Him, his clashes with Janeway are a fantastic.
He is all cold, logical type of approach to it.
He kills one of these creatures in cold blood before they could decipher
what it was doing, whether it was good or it had good intent or not.
And also the guest appearance of one of my favorite guitarists of all time
the guitarist of Rage Against the Machine and from Audioslave, Tom Morello
is actually there as uh, Mitchell.
He has one scene.
It's really awkward.
It's really just put in there just so Tom Morello from Rage
the Machine can be on Star Trek.
He was a, he was an alien in the background in a couple of scenes for Star
Trek insurrection, but they gave him a speaking role and he never came back.
We never saw what happened to Mitchell either.
And as I was watching he going, is that Tom Morello?
Is that Tom?
He's far too cool to be in Star Trek.
And they went, yep, that's Tom Morello.
So yes, but for the leadership point of view, it's very much
Janeway how she works as a captain.
And we have great episodes of that within other series, like how Sisko works with
his people and how Picard works with his people and how Kirk works with his
people as well, but to see how Janeway operates, we see her so much with her
main bridge crew, but going to the lower decks level and how she tries to
engage, connect, all that type of stuff.
There's a moment where her and Harren she's there trying to just start
conversation, and Harren just shuts her down in this sort of like very
cool, calculated, unemotional way of going you are trying to connect with
me with, with the place I was born.
That is irrelevant to who I am as a, yeah.
It's a, it's it, yeah.
It's a great moment.
Kevin: First of all, I think this episode contributes to Janeway's
reputation for loving a project.
I mean, this is post Seven of Nine, so it's well established
how much Janeway loves a project.
So I feel like maybe uh, when she decided to take this on, a few of the people
around her went, oh, here we go again.
Janeway's got a new project.
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: I had completely forgotten that Voyager had one
of these lower decks episodes.
So this is awesome to be reminded of.
If memory serves Janeway, you can at least tell on her face that at several points
in this episode, she almost gives up.
Like, she's like, oh, this was a terrible mistake.
These people are never gonna make it.
Rob: Yeah, there, it's the best, it's the best part of it where you see
her going, she is really annoyed.
She's she's having to work.
She's not holier than thou.
There's very much a case where she goes, if I could just dump them space, I would.
It's a great indication of how good she is
Kevin: And is that the, like if we're, if we're looking for leadership
lessons here, what would you say the leadership lesson is of this episode?
Rob: That's a very.
The lesson is listen to Janeway.
Have a coffee with her, for God's sake.
Also how they teach each other as well.
Like, there are points where even the lower deckers are there going, you
never come and have coffee with us.
You never come and hang out with us.
Just, you don't know who I am and you're just judging me for this.
Come and sit and chat with us.
Kevin: from their point of view.
Don't lead from above.
Lead from within.
Rob: Exactly.
Kevin: And maybe don't give up on the misfits.
Rob: Don't give up.
Uh, look, I'm a, yeah, especially because, I'm a drama nerd myself and a misfit.
So always uh, always have a soft spot in my heart for those who aren't ex,
because I kind of see the main cast in Star Trek in general, they're
also like the best of what they do.
Like Riker is very much, the matinee idol.
And same with sort of like Chakotay, even though he is Maquis and stuff
like that gets to that point of there going, I want some, that's
why I love Deep Space Nine so much.
They're all misfits.
Kevin: to see the people as human or a as the race may be.
But but yeah, it's good to see the people who are not
perfect, but believably flawed.
Rob: Yes, exactly.
Kevin: they still have a place in this utopian future.
Rob: Definitely, definitely.
So you had a second episode to,
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: to mention.
Kevin: I mean, yours reminds me of a TNG episode that I'll just
mention in passing called Disaster.
This is uh, season five, episode five, where the ship gets struck by
something and loses all power and Picard memorably gets trapped in a
turbolift with some children and has to lead them out of that situation.
Picard himself has a broken leg, so he can't do much himself, so he just has to
pep talk these scared kids to success.
And it's very much uh, like it, it's an unkind comparison, but
it, it reminds me of Janeway kind of cheer-squadding these misfits
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: onto success as well.
But it's an especial challenge for Picard who, as we know, cannot stand children.
Rob: No.
He, the amount of times he says shut up, Wesley.
Kevin: Yep, but uh, the one I want to spend a little more time on is
way back in season two, episode 15, and it's called Pen Pals.
And this is similar to in tone to the Voyager episode
that you just talked about.
It's very much kind of a day in the life on the starship.
There's not earth shaking high stakes as we're used to it.
The episode has a very slow start.
The first 15 or 20 minutes are like Picard wants to go horse riding on
the holodeck and Troi tags along because she's having a chat with him.
She follows him in.
And Picard tries to convince her to get on a horse, and she explains that
Betazoids get too caught up in the emotions of the horse and they lose
themselves and it never ends well.
So no, she'll keep her feet planted on solid ground, thank you very much.
So there's a, there's a lot of this kind of world building on the Enterprise.
It, it doesn't, it's in no great rush to get to the action.
And one of the things they set up at the start of this episode is they're
flying into this unexplored solar system and a lot of the planets
are showing tectonic stress and uh, strange um, geological phenomena.
And Riker decides this will be a perfect opportunity for him to,
as Wesley Crusher's mentor, put Wesley in command of something.
So he assembles a meeting of the senior staff in the observation lounge.
At the table are Picard, Troi, Riker, Pulaski, Geordi, and they talk about
whether Wesley should be given command of the planetary mineral survey.
And they're like, Pulaski iss maybe it's too soon.
You don't wanna set him up for failure.
And Picard's like, oh no, you gotta hone him like a fine sword, that young man.
And uh, yeah it's, it's strange that the, the entire senior staff of
the ship have nothing better to do than to discuss Wesley's education.
Rob: I love how much they pushed us to care about Wesley so much.
Kevin: I know, but you know what?
I think they pull it off in this episode.
I dare say at least sitting here today, I think this might be Wesley
Crusher's best episode of the
Rob: Ooh.
Kevin: because he, he being placed into that position of
command, he doesn't overact it.
He doesn't overplay it.
And yet you feel his awkwardness about giving commands to more senior, more
grownup staff that are on his team.
And the other thing that really works for me is that he's not cocky.
He's not too confident to ask for advice.
Several of the scenes of this episode are Wesley going to Riker and Troi for
advice, or Pulaski for advice and going, Hey, I was thinking of uh, you know,
putting these two people on my team, but how am I gonna give them commands?
And Riker is like, uh, it's completely irrelevant.
You're their commanding officer.
You get to give them commands.
You don't have to worry about what they think.
Yeah, just these scenes that are about Wesley taking command, and his self-doubt,
it really works for me when so often in other episodes, the thing about Wesley
is he doesn't second guess himself.
Yeah, I really enjoy it.
Uh, This the, the, A plot of this episode is what the episode is named after.
Data makes contact with a lifeform on one of these planets that is
undergoing these tectonic shifts and is at risk of breaking up.
And Data spends, he says eight weeks.
chatting to this alien girl on one of these planets.
They end up having this great debate over whether they should or
even are allowed to go and rescue this young girl and her family and
her civilization that is at peril.
And, they have another great meeting in Picard's quarters where
they debate the Prime Directive.
And this episode is written by Melinda Snodgrass, who you might
remember from The Measure of a Man.
So she is no stranger to writing debates, like reasoned debates in Star Trek.
And this one, I think when we last talked about measure of the man, I said
on rewatching it, I was disappointed that the arguments weren't that deep.
It was more like, who can be more persuasive in the room?
And Picard will win that battle any day of the week.
And this one is much more a debate of ideas.
And at the end, Picard puts his foot down and says, no, the Prime
Directive says we'll let them die.
And then Data gets a transmission, and he puts it on speaker and they
all hear the young girl saying, Data, please come and save me.
And you just see Picard's heart melt.
And he goes, oh, now your, your whisper in the darkness is a cry for help.
We can't turn our backs.
We have to go and save them.
And so they fix the planet in a debatably direct violation of the Prime Directive.
Rob: Excellent.
So the, and the big lesson about leadership in this episode is,
Kevin: The big lesson about leadership for Wesley is don't be intimidated by
people who have more experience than you when you've been placed in command.
He has a, kind of hotshot geologist on his team, and Wesley wants to run an ico,
spectro, whatever, an ICO graphic scan or something of the planet, because one
of the readings suggests there might be dilithium crystals there and the hotshot
goes, oh, that'll just be a waste of time.
It'll take us five hours to set up the sensor array.
A good commander knows when he's wasting everyone's time, Wesley.
And Wesley goes, I guess you're right.
And he walks out with his tail between his legs.
And then he has a heart to heart with Riker and Riker gives him some
great advice and he goes back to this guy and he goes, I want that scan.
And the guy goes, coming right up, sir.
And it's just a great moment of when you give a command and you mean it,
that people will respect you for it.
Rob: Awesome.
Awesome.
Well, I'll quickly mention one other one which is Deep Space Nine, bless
it, uh, season six, episode 22.
So near the end of the run, we are deep into the middle of
the Dominion War with Valiant.
This is where Jake and Nog are fleeing a Jem'Hadar attack.
They barely survive and they're saved by a Defiant class ship called the Valiant.
Kevin: Yeah, I remembered there was like more than one Defiant class ship, and
not even more than one… 'cause I know there were two ships named Defiant.
One of them got blown up and they recommissioned one
as the Defiant version two.
Yeah, there was more, more than one of these things flying around.
And the Valiant was one of them.
Rob: Yes.
And the Valiant is crewed by um, red squad who are cadets, overeager, and Nog
gets caught up in uh, the excitement of it all, but as they go deeper and deeper
into the runnings of this ship uh, they find that the, the captain in particular
uh, Watters is not up to, to scratch.
And he puts them all at risk.
So much so that despite cooler heads trying to convince him otherwise, he
does not listen to any of his crew.
He does not listen to Jake who's there going look, my, my dad,
he has a Defiant ship as well.
He has all this experience.
He has all these people.
He wouldn't go on this mission, and you are, you have no hope.
And this guy uh, who's the captain has an addiction, isn't listing anyone,
and puts all these crew at risk.
Ultimately, only Jake, Nog and one other crew member survive, and the final moment
at the end is uh, Jake's asked by Nog if uh, he would write about this adventure.
And he goes, he thinks he would.
And there's a debate between the surviving crew member and Nog about
the qualities of Watters as a captain.
And Nog says, show both sides of the argument and let the readers decide.
And he turns back to the surviving crew member, Nog, and says a beautiful line.
It goes, he may have been a hero.
He may have been a good man, he may have been a great man,
but he was not a good captain.
Kevin: Yeah.
I think this episode cemented for me that any group of Starfleet officers who
call themselves a squad are bad news.
I am reminded of Nova Squadron, which was Wesley's kind of fighter
squadron at the academy uh, who had an accident and then tried to cover it
up until Wesley uh, at the urging of Picard turned whistleblower on them.
Yeah, squadrons bad.
I think Starfleet should just outlaw all squadrons.
Prime directive, but it's, it's a close second.
Rob: Exactly.
So this is a great episode, not only to show uh, what bad leadership
is and what good leadership is.
It's also a great episode for Jake again getting in there and using his
journalistic writing to really bring out the stories of the Dominion War
and bring out the characters and the, the human connection, or at least the
Starfleet stories behind it, and becoming an active part of the adventure as well.
And his, his, his connection with Nog is always great and strong had a wonderful
balance of, they come from two different worlds, literally, and they have two
different um, moral systems, but together they are a perfect friendship group.
And and the two of them are a wonderful pair.
And they work, they're stronger together.
Kevin: This is one of those little treasures that uh, we didn't know uh,
what we had at the time with Aaron Eisenberg's untimely so, uh, so young that
the number of episodes where Nog is in the spotlight and we get to see his, his
journey into learning what it is to be a Starfleet officer, it's, yeah, rich stuff.
Rob: Rich stuff for all of his time on Deep Space Nine.
It just gets, he, it's a character that just gets better and better and better.
Some are perfectly formed from the time we get them and just build
on perfection, say with Garak.
But characters like Rom, characters like Nog, especially, you have incredible
actors and the writing staff go, let's do this arc stuff and let's actually
use these brilliant actors who could phone in a great performance with a,
with a paper thin character, but give them more and they will step up for it.
And yeah, Nog does that, especially in the last couple of seasons where
they put him through the ringer.
Kevin: Yeah.
In this week's episode of Lower Decks, Boimler says he wants
to not repeat the uh, mistakes of the bad commanders he's had.
So I think it's especially, yeah, poignant to end with an
example of a bad commander here.
I don't think this is necessarily the kind of bad commander the Boimler had in mind.
Uh, and, I think Boimler uh, committed a pretty classic uh, command
faux pas by being a micromanager.
Rob: Yep.
Kevin: I can't remember any other examples of micromanagers in Star Trek,
Rob: Not off the top of my head, no.
Kevin: Yes, Boimler gave us a good blueprint to avoid.
Rob: So, yeah.
That brings us to an end of this episode.
We've discussed lessons in leadership.
I hope these lessons have been passed on to you as well, dear listeners.
And we'll be back with episode four in a couple of days, and it'll be interesting
to see where the Cerritos takes us next.
Kevin: It's a good time to be just, easing into a season of Star Trek that feels
like it is executing with confidence.
I don't feel like there is anything for this season to mess up because
it is in such a high quality groove.
Yes, we've got the hints of that like season long arc with that
killer ship out there, but I almost don't care what will become of that.
I'm sure we will get a story from that before the end of this season,
and I'm sure it'll be worth watching.
But in the meantime, I'm enjoying the little stories along the way.
Rob: As am I, I am uh, you know, completely converted from
having to catch up on Lower Decks in a short amount of time.
I'm glad I've jumped into the deep end and I'm fully sold on this crew,
this band of heroic hearts, and where whatever mishaps and shenanigans, oh
yeah, shenanigans, they get up to.
Kevin: Well, until next week, Rob, see you around the galaxy.