Carol Cox: We're diving into how to tackle a big and I
mean big global issue in your thought
leadership and talks with my guest thought
leader Academy grad Dr.
Neha Pathak on this episode of the Speaking
Your Brand podcast.
More and more women are making an impact by
starting businesses, running for office and
speaking up for what matters.
With my background as a TV political
analyst, entrepreneur and speaker, I
interview and coach purpose driven women to
shape their brands, grow their companies,
and become recognized as influencers in
their field. This is speaking your brand,
your place to learn how to persuasively
communicate your message to your audience.
Hi and welcome to the Speaking Your Brand
podcast. I'm your host, Carol Cox.
If you have ever felt that your topic seems
overwhelming to your audience, or that the
issue that you want to talk about, or the
thought leadership message that you want to
share is just it's like a really big issue,
and you're not sure how your audience is
going to relate to it. Or your audience may
think like, what can I do about it?
Well, keep listening, because in my
conversation with one of our thought leader
Academy graduates, Dr.
Neha Pathak, this is exactly what we talk
about. Neha is a primary care physician.
She's also lead medical editor at WebMD and
host of their fantastic podcast called
Health Discovered.
She's a graduate of Harvard University as
well as Weill Medical College of Cornell
University. She currently lives in Atlanta,
Georgia. You may be surprised with this big
global issue is that Neha has decided to
focus on in her writings and in her talks,
and we're going to get into that.
We also talk about the power of
storytelling. No matter what your topic is,
no matter what your industry is, and no
matter who your audience is and the benefits
of it. And then Neha shares some of her
speaking experiences and insights that she
has for you.
If you would like to work with us to develop
your thought leadership message, create your
signature talk and learn the business of
speaking. We do that with you in our online
Thought Leader Academy.
We work with you both one on one and in a
small group of women, so you get plenty of
personalized coaching, feedback, support,
and community.
We're enrolling now for our April 2nd start
date. You can get all the details of
speaking your brand.com/academy again that's
speaking your brand.com/academy.
Now let's get on with the show.
Neha, welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Neha Pathak: Thank you so much for having me, Carol.
Carol Cox: Well, let's start first with your background.
As I mentioned, you're a physician and your
lead medical editor at WebMD.
So tell us about those two roles that you
have and what you do there.
Dr. Neha Pathak: Yeah. So I am a primary care physician.
I always say the one thing that doesn't give
me imposter syndrome in my life is to say
that I'm a primary care doc.
Um, and so essentially, my job, as I see it,
has always been to try to go upstream of the
health or illness that someone is suffering
from and try to really prevent illness
before, um, we're dealing with managing a
condition. And so what I had done, really
all of my clinical career is to do that one
on one with patients in the office at most,
maybe 1 to 10 with group visits.
And so the possibilities of working with
WebMD really were just mind boggling,
amazing to me. I was very excited for that
opportunity, because now it's sort of being
able to communicate reliable, trusted
messages with larger groups of people.
And so that's really what brought me to my
current work.
Carol Cox: Talk about this big global issue that you've
decided to tackle in the work that you do
around your thought leadership.
So and it happens to be about climate
change, which, again, I don't think a lot of
people would think, you know, primary care,
doctor WebMD, climate change, they don't
seem to go together. But of course, we know
and I know from working with you that they
do. So can you tell me a little bit about
what got, you know, why this topic?
Why climate change for your thought
leadership?
Dr. Neha Pathak: Yeah, I think that I it never even really
occurred to me as something where I was
interested in thought leadership.
It just became, um, it was an area where I
just in terms of caring for my patients,
caring for my family, caring for my
community, as I mentioned, sort of really
thinking like, what's upstream, what's
upstream of what's making us potentially
sick, or what allows us to have a stable
environment so that we can have healthy food
and places to go for physical activity and
nature. That has some stability in the world
around us. And every time, sort of the
answer was coming back to, well, there is
this major crisis going on with our climate,
where in the office we often talk about our
diagnoses being based on what's most common
during that particular time.
Right. So we're thinking about flu season.
We're thinking about pollen season.
We're thinking about. So in my office I
really use the time, the place that I'm at
my geography, to help me with thinking
through what are the potential diagnoses.
And it just became and what's going on with
my children if I'm thinking about it in the
home. And it just started to dawn on me as I
was seeing patients, as I was taking care of
my children, that what I had learned in
medical school was really shifting, and that
the climate was playing a role in that.
And so as I dug in and tried to learn more,
I felt like I needed to communicate this
with my patients. And that's really how I
sort of learned more.
And that's why I've leaned into trying to
share this information in a way that people
can understand, in a way that people can
feel like they have a role to play, um, in
the work that I do.
Carol Cox: Well, and that and that's fascinating that,
like you, you were working with your
patients and again, kind of this contrast
between, you know, years ago being in
medical school and what what were kind of
the main areas of focus and what was
contributing to, you know, disease and
illness versus what you were seeing with
your patients as the years progressed.
And I like to think of thought leadership
emerges from us. Sometimes it's from
experiences that we've had directly say, you
know, when we were younger or at some point
in our life and, but and sometimes our, our
thought leadership emerges because we're
noticing things that maybe other people
aren't picking up on. And that sounds very
much like for you, like you were starting to
notice these things and putting them
together and realizing that there was there
was something else going on.
So let me let me ask you this, Neha.
So climate change we know is a huge issue.
Like there's so many components of it, it
can feel really overwhelming even for even
for those of us who we care.
Like I care about the climate, obviously, I
don't want the climate impact that we've
already are seeing in not only in the United
States, but around the world.
But yet it also feels like, well, I'm just
one person, like, what can I do about it?
How much impact can I make?
And aren't the government supposed to figure
this out? Or like, you know, big, big
companies, can't they do something?
So how do you address that in the work that
you're doing?
Dr. Neha Pathak: So I think everything you said is exactly
right. And I think that that's what I'm
hoping to accomplish. I think it was in a
conversation with you where I was sort of
thinking about, so who do I want to talk to?
What is it that people want?
And then what is it that they fear in terms
of losing?
And then ultimately, what do they need to
understand so that they feel like they can
take action? So I think whenever I think
about talking on this topic, that's really
sort of those are the three questions I ask
myself or I hope to answer by the end of my
writing. Or if I'm talking to an expert.
Those are the things I'm hoping to get
across. So I think, number one, feeling
overwhelmed 100%.
I think we should honor that feeling,
acknowledge it. It is completely accurate
and appropriate to feel like we're one
person, we're one family.
How can we make any dent into this problem?
So I think that honor, that honor that
feeling. And then in terms of, well, what do
I want as a mother, as a primary care doctor
for my patients?
I want to live in a world that has some
stability, so that the short terme and long
tum health of my family and my patients can
be optimized.
That's really what I want.
And then what do I fear is that I have to
change things in a major, major way to make
those things happen, which is really hard
for any of us to do.
Even if I tell you right now that you have a
particular even if I tell myself I have a
particular health condition, so I'm going to
need to change the way I eat or how much I
move. It's really hard to close that gap
between knowing that and actually changing
behavior. So I think recognizing that is
important and then just understanding that
you're right, it is.
You know, our government, you know, it is
big businesses that have to make these
changes. So that's who we have to demand
these changes from I think is is sort of the
big thing that I'm hoping that people can
get behind. It's we don't we can do little
things in our home.
But that's really where we need to sort of
direct action.
Carol Cox: Well, and I appreciate that.
Neha and I have for those of you who are
watching the video in the show notes page, I
have her signature talk here on the board
with the post-it notes. And, you know, to
your point about, you know, in whatever for
for those of you listening, whatever your
topic happens to be when you're presenting
it in front of your audience, is that
validating where the audience currently is,
saying the things out loud that, you know,
they're probably thinking like, imagine if
Neha is starting to talk about her topic
related to climate change.
And she's like, all right, we're going to
talk about climate change. And these are the
things you need to do, and completely just
doesn't even acknowledge how people are
feeling about it, that maybe, you know, it
feels too big of an issue like.
So that's really important to do in is to.
Knowledge where people are at that you feel
the same things and then but like, okay, so
but what what can we do about that?
And so we came up with a framework for this,
uh, an acronym.
Do you want to, do you want to talk about
that and kind of the kind of the main pieces
of because I think this is useful not only
for listeners to think about, like the meta
of their own thought leadership and their
framework, but also for climate change, like
what is what are some things that we can do?
Dr. Neha Pathak: Yeah, I feel like I've gone through a lot of
iterations of it since we've talked as well,
and a lot of it has shifted depending on the
audience. So, you know, it's really, I
think, your framework. And that's what's so
beautiful about the framework that you gave
me is that it was an audience of moms
originally that I was thinking about, and
then it shifted to when I had to when I
ended up having to give a talk, it was in
front of this large health professional
society. So I really sort of shifted it to,
um, we have to own the problem.
So, um, I think that number one is
understanding the overwhelm.
So recognizing that we do have, um, feelings
of just being completely overwhelmed and
that this doesn't necessarily fit into our
clinical practice, it doesn't fit into our
homes because we have so much to do already.
The next thing is, I think that we have to
recognize that we can win in this situation
so that there are things that we're already
doing in our lives that are wins for climate
change. So for the health perspective, I am
part of a group of lifestyle medicine
providers. So the win for us is the work
we're already doing in our clinics, um, to
help people recognize the health benefits of
a plant rich diet, to help people understand
the health benefits of physical activity in
the world around them. All of those are
carbon. They're much less carbon intensive
than some of the other types of health
behaviors that people, um, currently are
really sort of focused on or sticking to.
So we're trying to help people shift to
those health behaviors that are already wins
for us. We're already doing that for health
and helping people, if that.
They're so inclined to recognize that that's
a win for climate as well.
And then the N is for now.
So the time really is now for us to do this.
And as lifestyle medicine providers, we are
doing it now. So it's just sharing that
message with other health professionals.
Carol Cox: I love that you came up with a framework just
for them, for the for the physicians,
because that makes a lot of sense, because I
know for the framework we had come up with
for directing this at Moms was E's, so
acronym E a s e like how to do this with
ease, right? And not putting more stress and
more burden on them, but instead like, how
can they involve their children and their
families and kind of and make it so that
it's a, it's a positive thing that they're
doing within their household?
Not one more chore to do.
Dr. Neha Pathak: Yes, exactly.
Yes. No, absolutely.
And I think that that's what was really
freeing for me is like actually kind of
constraining yourself to, um, an acronym or
to a framework really helps you think about,
well, what does this audience need or what
is it's going to what is going to really
resonate with this other audience?
So yeah, I think that that was really
helpful. And it's similar messages, maybe
different stories.
Um, but I think just being able to tweak it
in different ways for a different audience.
Carol Cox: Well, let's talk about stories now, because I
know that when you went through the Thought
Leader Academy and we worked together like
many very highly educated, highly
accomplished women, and you certainly are
like we we tend to stay focus on not not
even like just the facts, but like, what is
the information? And especially for, for
those in, you know, in medicine and health
and science, like what is the science say?
Like, you know, what is the research say
what has been backed up as far as things
that are beneficial for us to do.
So? I know that personal stories usually
don't come into that.
You know, think about conferences that you
probably have gone to over the years and are
probably not a lot of personal stories.
So but I will I encourage you to have to put
personal stories into the talk that we were
working on. You have a great one about
taking your daughters to see Taylor Swift in
concert, right? That makes it so relatable.
So how what was that?
What was that process like for you and and
how how do you see storytelling now?
Dr. Neha Pathak: I think that that is absolutely one of the
things that I just did.
Not particularly because mostly what I had
done prior to working with you had been
giving talks in a health professional
society space or amongst health
professionals where there's sort of a very
standard accepted structure, um, that you
don't necessarily want to deviate from the
writing that I had done, and we've talked
about this a little bit, had really been
very much reported writing this is what the
experts are saying. And here's what I can
share with you. Here's how I might
synthesize that information, but in general,
not really less of me and more of what is
the information.
And I will say that even in the talk that I
gave for the health professional society, I
did throw in a few stories.
And that's where I got probably my biggest
round of applause or interest.
Or you could see that the audience was sort
of engaged with the story, where I was just
sort of thinking about, well, how is it that
as health professionals that are really
interested in lifestyle interventions, how
is it that climate change is a threat to
those interventions?
And then at the same time, on the opposite
side, how can we own this?
By continuing to do the work that we're
doing. And one of the examples I gave was,
for example, if we're talking about helping
our patients understand physical activity in
the world around them, if we think about it
with a climate and health lens, then we can
just help them understand well, if there is
a chore or an errand that you have to do
that is within the span of one mile, try to
do try to walk that or bike that.
And I sort of threw in my personal story of
having a community of moms now who it
happens that my daughter's daycare is
exactly a mile away.
So we walk her down, we walk back, we get to
talk about our husbands.
So it's social connection, it's mental
health, um, and it's physical activity.
And I think that that story, it was really
interesting to see how the audience
connected with just tweaking our
prescriptions so that it it multi solves.
Carol Cox: And I'm sure that's very they're going to
remember that story.
And then next time they're going to think
about well not only can I walk somewhere but
maybe one of these little these these
behavior changes that I can make.
Dr. Neha Pathak: Yeah. And I think yeah, the ease piece of it,
it's important for all of us.
Right. We want to make sure that whatever
we're doing solves for not just one problem,
but many problems.
And it's easy and fun and social.
Carol Cox: And Neha, I just very recently you published
an article on the website Yale Climate
Connections, and I'll include a link to this
article in the show notes, because it's it's
definitely well worth reading.
It's a really beautifully written article.
And when I saw it on your LinkedIn, I
clicked over it on it.
And so I'll just say the title of it is I'm
a Doctor. Here's what Western medicine
misunderstands about nature.
So I was like, okay, you know, that sounds
that sounds like Neha, right?
Like I know you like you're combining these
things. And I really expected especially,
you know, Yale like Yale climate
connections, like very prestigious.
I really expected the article to start with.
Well, you know, being in nature, science has
shown that it releases dopamine or, you
know, whatever it happens to be.
But no, no, no, that's not how the article
starts. The article starts with I still
flushed with embarrassment when I relived
the moment it was 20 years ago.
I was a shy medical student and so on, and I
was like, yay!
I was clapping when I was reading it because
that like, it brings as the reader, it
brings me in.
And I was so engaged in reading the article
and I felt like I just, I felt like that
kind of like that professional distance had
collapsed, even just on the screen by
reading that story about you.
Dr. Neha Pathak: Well, I really appreciate that feedback.
I thank you so much for sharing that with me
and just how you felt as you were reading
it. And I will share with you that that is
probably the first narrative, personal essay
that I've ever written, and a lot of it is
thanks to you and just sort of, again, not
just the framework, but helping sort of pull
in like, what is the you of this?
Why are you the one that's sharing this
information and pulling back, going through
your archive and your memory and thinking
about how are our experiences, these
personal experiences, really connected to
the way that we're thinking about the world
around us or the work that we're doing in
the world around us? And so this is the
first time I've sort of put me in a story
like that. And, uh, yeah, I mean, I think it
was really to say that there was a time when
I tried to share sort of my own sort of, I
would say, cultural inheritance as part of
the practice of medicine.
So for me, it was really just yoga, not as
the way we kind of practice it, um, in the
world today, but just moving, breathing,
feeling connected to everything around us.
Um, and just it's just sort of this journey
to recognizing that that's what we kind of
maybe need to expand our understanding of
what yoga is, to include the world around us
as well, and protect that world because it
has health benefits for us and, and
spiritual health benefits for us as well.
Carol Cox: I love that.
And and this sentence also in the article
really stuck out to me because I remember
you had shared this in the Thought Leader
Academy. In the article you write, I teach
my children to ask for Mother Earth's
blessings every morning before they place
their feet on her to do their daily tasks.
Dr. Neha Pathak: I thank and again, this is not something else
I necessarily would have shared in, you
know, an article like this or at all.
Um, but it really is sort of how, how am I
thinking about it really in my own life?
And how can that connect with the way that
other people are thinking about it?
And there are so many traditions.
There's so many ways that we see the world
and we think, oh, these are so different.
But so many of us think about how we honor
the world around us, how we care for the
world around us.
And I think sharing that specificity helps
us think about, well, what is it that you
know? Well, I have my own way of kind of
doing that, and I hope that that sort of
translates.
Carol Cox: Absolutely. Well, Neha, let's talk about some
of your speaking experiences.
I also want to chat a little bit about how
your how you are approaching your podcast
interviews that you do.
So I remembered that you had a speaking
engagement. So you graduated from the
Thought Leader Academy in October, and I
think the speaking engagement was around
that same time. So maybe right, kind of
right after we graduated.
And I remember back in August when we
started, you said something like, I usually,
I usually like don't look forward to
speaking engagements and.
Right. And can you tell us why.
So what like what was that about that and
how are you feeling now?
Dr. Neha Pathak: Yeah, I.
So that's the reason that I connected with
you was really because I had this speaking
engagement. It was probably the biggest
opportunity that I'd ever had, the largest
audience. And, um, I have and I think I
shared with you then my biggest, biggest,
biggest weakness is procrastination.
And just the the fear of having to do that
sort of ends up making me just constantly
say to myself, I'll do it later, okay, I can
do it later, or I'm thinking about it.
That means I'm doing it and not actually
physically putting anything on paper.
So I really connected with you as sort of
this accountability coach to just help me
put it on paper, like, if I could talk to
somebody and not in the world of medicine,
where I kind of understand the frame that I
need to be talking from, but someone who has
a completely different perspective, a
different a completely different way of
understanding persuasive kind of language.
Um, so this was like a very different type
of process than I've ever done before.
And so I did just what we sort of talked
about. I for months beforehand made these
slides, really thought about what is the
persuasive message here, what are the
interesting graphics, what are the great
stories from my archive and from other
patients, other health professionals that I
can kind of throw in here?
And it was an audience of, I think around
2000 health professionals.
It went well.
And you know me, I never say anything
positive about anything I've done.
So it was I'm working on that piece as well,
which is to, you know, just appreciate and
have gratitude for the journey.
Uh, so I think that that really has shifted
my relationship with being able to say yes
to other talks, to feel comfortable and then
sometimes often to just say no, um, to some
of these opportunities as well, because I
feel like it has to really speak to me.
Um, and I really feel like I have to be able
to pull all of these pieces together in
order to, to do this well.
So I just really appreciated the process of
going going through that and forcing myself
to put something on paper and sharing it
with somebody who could then give me some
feedback.
Carol Cox: Well, I remember I had, you know, emailed you
good luck beforehand and then you wrote me
back afterwards and you're like, it went
great. And so you had some exclamation marks
in there. So I think, yes, I think you did a
great job.
Dr. Neha Pathak: I had a bar of just thank you.
My, my bar was don't collapse on stage.
So that was met and then I was like and then
this is you know and it was it really did it
went well.
Carol Cox: Do you have any advice or tips for speakers,
maybe speakers who also feel like you when
they when they're thinking about their
upcoming speaking engagements?
Dr. Neha Pathak: So I think one a the earlier you know about
it, don't tell yourself, oh, I have three
months before I have to start working on it.
It really is sort of when you find out about
it, if it is really something, that
opportunity that is so meaningful to you,
um, put that passion down on paper as soon
as you can.
And then I think finding someone who is an
accountability person or group is just
crucial, because I think that, you know, I,
I put and generally this is another thing I
just kind of have thrown together slides in
the past and been like, okay, I can I, I got
the idea, I can speak through this, but it's
when you iterate and you show it to somebody
who maybe is not necessarily in your field.
If they can connect with that message, then,
you know, you're kind of on to something.
So I think those are the keys.
And then having a framework, I don't think I
necessarily even thought through the fact
that you need a story arc, even for these
types of health professional presentations,
where it's not just here are my objectives,
here's the information.
I hope you hope I met those objectives.
It's sort of here's my what I've started to
add to in some of my slides now or in some
of my presentations are here are my
objectives. But here's my hope for what we
come out. With.
At the end of this time together, I hope we
co-create something new.
Information. I hope you help me understand
what resonates, what doesn't.
And then I'll sort of go into the the
presentation.
Carol Cox: I like that, Neha.
I like I think of it as like you're you're
extending an invitation to the audience
instead of, you know, saying, okay, here,
I'm just going to lecture to the audience.
You know, one way, here's all the
information, here's the information dump.
Instead of even if the audience is not
literally saying anything back to you, I
always like to think of it as a dialogue and
like you're extending the invitation for
them to join you on this journey of
discovering, in this case, it happens to be
like, you know, this climate change is a big
issue. What can we do about it as
physicians?
Dr. Neha Pathak: Yeah, and I think I think the whole this is
and I've told you this in the past as well,
like I'm not great with the terms, you know,
thought leader or I am really so interested
in learning and I'm really interested in
understanding how other people are seeing
this problem so that we can sort of work
together and figure out, because it really
is a all hands on deck.
And so how can we all with our individual
skills or our different interests?
Come together to do something, and I
definitely come at it from a place of I'm
still in the process of learning.
I am definitely not an expert in climate
science. That's going to tell you.
I'm telling you from a health perspective
what I'm seeing, what the concerns are for
people's health.
So how can we all sort of think about this
problem, and what can each of us do to
tackle it in our own ways?
Carol Cox: Well, to me that is thought leadership.
I always say that it's not about having all
the answers. It's being willing to ask the
big questions and being willing to not to
know that you don't have the answers, but
that these are conversations that need to be
had and that you want to contribute to those
conversations that are going on.
So yes, I always say you don't have to put
thought leader on your LinkedIn profile,
like you don't have to do that.
But I really think, like I still feel like
embracing that identity for yourself helps
you to realize the important role that
you're playing. And then hopefully kind of
role modeling that for others.
Subconsciously, you know that and then that
they can see that and take it for themselves
as well.
Dr. Neha Pathak: I care. I think that that's such a key
message. And that is beyond also just
understanding the sort of the framework and
the operationalizing, putting a talk
together or even sort of outlining.
What I want to write is these internal
feelings of imposter syndrome.
And I'm not there yet.
I'm still working on it. But I think that
that's another thing that I learned from
working with you and the other women, that
this was a very women focused program, I
think really was important for me, because I
think a lot of us come into whatever space
we're in, just having imposter syndrome or
not thinking that what we know is enough or
what we have to share is enough.
And so it's really been about sort of
eliminating that self-talk.
Each day. I maybe get a little bit better at
that. And then not being afraid to share
these ideas, I think was another thing that
came out of working with you is, and I've
talked to you about this as well, I am not
great at social media.
I'm not great at just like putting things
out there that I've done.
Um, and I think it's sort of like, no, it's
okay to own your work and what you're doing
and what you're passionate about and share
that with other people.
Um, so I think that was another major thing
that I have to thank you for.
Carol Cox: Oh, well, I am so glad to hear that.
And yes, there is so much power in a
community of women working together because
you we do recognize that we are facing
similar things because of the societal
messaging that we've grown up with.
And so learning how to be more, you know,
confident in putting ourselves out there is
something that we all are, you know, are are
working on all of the time.
All right. Neha, so for listeners, you can
connect with Neha on LinkedIn.
The link is in the show notes also that the
link to that article that I quoted from
earlier that Neha wrote is also a link in
the show notes. So be sure to read that as
well. And yeah, thank you so much for coming
on speaking your brand podcast for going
through our Thought Leader Academy, being
such a valued member of our community, and
for the very important work that you are
doing because you are the messenger your
audience is waiting for.
Dr. Neha Pathak: Thank you so much, Carol.
Carol Cox: Thanks so much to Neha for coming on the
podcast and our next episode, we're going to
talk even more about storytelling, how to
integrate your personal story into your
talk, and there's lots of different ways
that you can do that. There's not just one
way. In some cases, your story may be the
central message of your talk, and other
cases it may be used to support one of the
points that you're making.
Also, with stories, you can start at the
beginning, of course, but you can also start
at the middle of your story or the end of
your story, and then come back to the
beginning later on.
So that's what you're going to hear on our
next episode. Don't forget that if you'd
like to join us in our Thought Leader
Academy enrollment is open, now you can go
to speaking your brand.com/academy again.
That's speaking your brand.com/academy to
get all of the details.
Until next time.
Thanks for listening.