1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,400 Unknown: For anybody moving down here, you are starting a 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:04,740 business, whether you like it or not, which means you have to 3 00:00:04,740 --> 00:00:08,160 have some magnitude of business acumen, definitely a good sales 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,980 approach. That's what I think made you rich, is that you 5 00:00:10,980 --> 00:00:13,200 understood all that you knew you were somewhat of a master 6 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,260 salesman. You could back it up. You had, you know, you didn't 7 00:00:16,260 --> 00:00:19,620 have the clout yet. You only had the clout coming from Dallas and 8 00:00:19,620 --> 00:00:22,220 what you did, but you certainly had the education, but you had 9 00:00:22,220 --> 00:00:24,740 biz, you know, you had a salesmanship to you, you know 10 00:00:24,740 --> 00:00:27,260 what I mean? And that made a big difference. So a lot of these 11 00:00:27,260 --> 00:00:30,740 people that are coming in, yeah, you gotta do a lot of stuff. You 12 00:00:30,740 --> 00:00:33,980 gotta spread yourself thin. How many bands did you play in one 13 00:00:33,980 --> 00:00:37,640 year that didn't have a scheduling clock? 2929 bands. 14 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,340 What year was that? 1999 right? You remember the year you were 15 00:00:42,340 --> 00:00:43,420 playing the lottery, 16 00:00:43,900 --> 00:00:49,540 totally playing, right? 27 of those acts do not exist anymore, 17 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,140 but you still had this. You know, you can't win if you don't 18 00:00:53,140 --> 00:00:57,160 play. This is the rich Redmond show. 19 00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:03,120 What's up, folks? Yep, it's that time. It's time for another 20 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,520 exciting episode of the rich Redmond show. We talk about 21 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:10,140 things like music, motivation, success. Drummers. We love the 22 00:01:10,140 --> 00:01:14,220 drummers. They're everywhere. They're all over Nashville. This 23 00:01:14,220 --> 00:01:17,400 is used to be guitar town. Now it's drum town. Everybody's 24 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,100 coming from New York, LA, they're coming from all the 25 00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:23,000 schools all across the nation, and they know that they can buy 26 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,820 land here, they could put their kids through school, and they 27 00:01:25,820 --> 00:01:28,160 can make a living playing the drums. And we're gonna talk to a 28 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,500 great drummer today, but first I want to catch up with Jim 29 00:01:30,500 --> 00:01:34,040 McCarthy. Jim McCarthy voiceovers.com, Hello, Jim. How 30 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:35,060 was your holidays, buddy? 31 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,380 It was busy. I take that back. Maybe it wasn't so busy. It was 32 00:01:39,380 --> 00:01:41,980 relaxing. We got to pull the plug a little bit. Yeah, we got 33 00:01:41,980 --> 00:01:46,120 to smoke a cigar recently. Today, cigars, which is no one 34 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,580 has done that. I'm feeling very Mark Marin right now because 35 00:01:48,580 --> 00:01:51,460 he's always bragging about how people bring him gifts. This is 36 00:01:51,460 --> 00:01:54,880 the first gift that we have gotten on the show. Oh my god, 37 00:01:54,940 --> 00:01:55,360 actually, 38 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,680 no, we had the keyboard player. He brought us some some gifts to 39 00:02:00,100 --> 00:02:01,560 Ray luzier brought us some coffee. 40 00:02:01,620 --> 00:02:04,320 Oh, yeah, some nice coffee. Yeah. And I didn't have a 41 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:09,060 grinder, a bean grinder, so then the I gave the coffee to John 42 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:15,240 hull on the road, Paul, Paul, Brother Paul. Brother Paul. 43 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,360 Brother Paul is always actually brother Paul and his band, the 44 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,960 water boys, just had a big write up in Rolling Stone magazine, 45 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:26,060 yeah, they put out this amazing, like, conceptual album that took 46 00:02:26,060 --> 00:02:28,520 five years to make, and the critics are all raving about it. 47 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,220 So he's a, what an amazing person. Shout out to Brother 48 00:02:31,220 --> 00:02:33,560 Paul. So positive, so positive. And I still have his you know 49 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,180 how he was in really into tea? 50 00:02:35,420 --> 00:02:37,880 Yeah, he brewed his own tea. I still have his tea pot. I had 51 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,160 him on my podcast, the mostly Middle Tennessee business 52 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:44,380 podcast, mmtbp.com, check it out. It's actually, he was on my 53 00:02:44,380 --> 00:02:44,920 podcast. 54 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:48,220 You're a promo sexual he did the same exact thing. Yeah, yeah. 55 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,980 Well, hey, listen, this is that time of year in Nashville where 56 00:02:51,220 --> 00:02:55,480 the stores are empty. Everyone is robbed of milk and water, 57 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,140 everyone's bread, French toast tomorrow apparently. I mean, 58 00:02:59,140 --> 00:03:01,680 it's crazy. It's that time everything's getting salted. And 59 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,560 it's also, if you're the kind of person that gets fever blisters, 60 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,460 maybe you kiss the wrong person in college, and this thing just 61 00:03:08,460 --> 00:03:11,820 keeps following you around. I'm sporting a major one right now, 62 00:03:11,820 --> 00:03:12,960 so if you can't see it, 63 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,860 the concept of TMI, 64 00:03:17,940 --> 00:03:21,320 I just kissed the wrong person. Jim, hey, this is a great 65 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,800 drummer. This is like timing is, you know what the secret to 66 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:25,760 comedy is? Jim, 67 00:03:27,620 --> 00:03:28,760 timing, timing, 68 00:03:30,500 --> 00:03:34,220 where's the splashable? So our friend, born and raised in 69 00:03:34,220 --> 00:03:37,040 Columbus, Ohio, he graduated with a music business degree 70 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,200 from Capital University. He is a working drummer. I mean, 71 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,300 actually, he has a podcast called The Working drummer 72 00:03:43,300 --> 00:03:46,120 podcast. He's played all over the 50 states. He's played all 73 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,580 the cool spots in Nashville, the rhyme and the grand old Opry, 74 00:03:48,580 --> 00:03:51,400 all the hipster rock and roll rooms. He's played with guys 75 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,000 like Mark Selby, Eddie, Raven, Billy Dean. We're talking 76 00:03:55,180 --> 00:03:59,500 Michelle Wright, Julie Roberts. Recently, most current gig, he's 77 00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:01,800 been playing with the front men of country, which is Larry 78 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,980 Stewart of restless art, Richie McDonald of Lone Star. You know 79 00:04:04,980 --> 00:04:09,120 Richie, our friend Tim rush low of little Texas. And what else 80 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,940 do I want to brag. He works with producers like Eric Fritz, Jim 81 00:04:11,940 --> 00:04:14,820 Riley, um, we have that in common. Great people. And his 82 00:04:14,820 --> 00:04:18,120 podcast, the working drummer. Working drummer podcast, working 83 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:23,300 drummer.net. Started in 2015 he has a sidekick, a co host, Zach 84 00:04:23,300 --> 00:04:27,260 albeit, he does an amazing job. And today is very special, 85 00:04:27,260 --> 00:04:33,020 because they're celebrating 500 episodes. Our friend, Matt 86 00:04:33,020 --> 00:04:36,980 Krause rich, What's up, buddy? What an intro. Man, good to see. 87 00:04:36,980 --> 00:04:37,760 Yeah. Man, 88 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,200 oh, he's got some new sounds over 89 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:40,480 there. Oh, they're not new. Oh, I 90 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:43,360 just never used it. Jim finally 91 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,180 labeled the buttons toilet flush. Oh, 92 00:04:46,180 --> 00:04:49,000 remember some of the old ones? Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh, the 93 00:04:49,540 --> 00:04:51,100 pooping and puking. Yeah, 94 00:04:51,220 --> 00:04:55,180 we're children in adult skin. That's good. I'm feeling 95 00:04:55,180 --> 00:04:58,780 inspired. You know, we were trying to go organic and create 96 00:04:58,780 --> 00:05:02,820 our own sounds, but I didn't know. What if you want virus, 97 00:05:02,820 --> 00:05:09,420 man, I, you know, I you have to extend a thank by proxy to Kevin 98 00:05:09,420 --> 00:05:15,360 rappilo, Angela Lisi, our friend, Chad Melcher, Canadian, 99 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,140 great Canadian, and I'm trying to think of 100 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:21,800 these. Are all guests on your podcast, 101 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,520 guests on our podcasts that have brought Justin Amaral was very 102 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,120 kind, brought, uh, some wonderful gifts that I'm just 103 00:05:29,180 --> 00:05:32,540 I'm just blown away by their kindness. And I'm and it's one 104 00:05:32,540 --> 00:05:38,480 of those things that you learn that you're like. It sometimes 105 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,860 only takes that one time to make a really good impression. Yeah, 106 00:05:42,700 --> 00:05:48,340 I was in a band that worked with a an investor, and he sat down 107 00:05:48,340 --> 00:05:52,480 and he told us, look, listen, after you do this gig, maybe 108 00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:56,440 take a picture with the person and then develop the film, put 109 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,560 it in a frame, sign it. Thanks so much for hiring us. Send it 110 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:05,460 off. And we're all sitting there going, what? Yeah, and it's 111 00:06:05,460 --> 00:06:08,400 those relationships, because this business, yeah. But 112 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,980 that was just, that was just very thoughtful. And you brought 113 00:06:10,980 --> 00:06:13,080 us some coffee, some black coffee, which is great. Thank 114 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:13,500 you so 115 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,400 much. Is there a possibility to make a good second like a bad 116 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,920 first impression, but have a an ability to make a better 117 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,180 impression on the second round. You believe in that? I 118 00:06:23,900 --> 00:06:28,100 I believe that it's always best to do it on the first time 119 00:06:28,100 --> 00:06:31,220 around, because that is ingrained in people's minds. But 120 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,120 I think a lot of people understand that everyone has a 121 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,100 bad day, and maybe you caught that person on a 122 00:06:37,100 --> 00:06:40,600 bed. Yeah, here's another funny thing to to your point that you 123 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,000 must have said about like somebody sending you a special 124 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,320 gift which made an indelible imprint in your mind. Check this 125 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:52,180 out. So I keep this card behind me, right? It's a picture of me 126 00:06:52,180 --> 00:06:54,280 that is the most handsome picture of you. Thank you. 127 00:06:54,700 --> 00:06:57,880 Because, you know, as we get older, it's much tougher to take 128 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,480 good pictures of ourselves. And I was sitting in a hotel room. 129 00:07:00,780 --> 00:07:04,080 We were going for orientation at my daughter's college at UTC 130 00:07:04,140 --> 00:07:06,720 Yeah, and I looked up, I was getting some work done, and I 131 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,840 looked up in the mirror from the laptop, and I'm like, you know, 132 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,360 I actually kind of look good if I could take a picture with 133 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,240 like, and I put up a thing on Facebook talking about, like, 134 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,700 you know, as you get older, you just kind of, you're not in love 135 00:07:17,700 --> 00:07:19,860 with some of the pictures you take. As you get older and 136 00:07:19,860 --> 00:07:22,220 older, I'm, at least me. I'm that's probably because of the 137 00:07:22,220 --> 00:07:24,560 weight, but, you know, I'm working on it. And this one has 138 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,400 a great picture, and I just kind of put up a post about it. Got a 139 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:34,040 lot of cool comments. This guy printed it out. I'm not even in 140 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,720 his industry. Yeah, he does like F and I for training for the car 141 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,040 business. I pray that your special day brings an abundance 142 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,740 of happiness. Is my birthday card. We went and sent me a 143 00:07:44,740 --> 00:07:47,560 birthday card. Peace and true joy to you today and always have 144 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:52,480 a happy birthday. My friend, velko to Kyiv, so velko, kudos 145 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,960 to you. Yeah, it's sitting on my desk now. Yeah, it's like, I 146 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,540 will never it's like, Dude, that's awesome. I 147 00:07:58,540 --> 00:08:01,440 need to start being more super thoughtful like that, you know, 148 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,440 because, you know, you know, we have our companies, or, you 149 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,960 know, our company relationships that we meet everybody at the 150 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,240 NAM show. And next thing you know, you're endorsing a drum 151 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,940 company or something. And you want, you know, at the holidays, 152 00:08:11,940 --> 00:08:15,240 you might want to send them some, maybe a some Harry and 153 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,300 David cookies or pears or something. But a lot of times 154 00:08:18,300 --> 00:08:21,200 it's like, you know, it's a Starbucks card. You know what? I 155 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,840 mean, it's just like, let's it's, let's just cover our 156 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,080 bases. I can buy everybody everything right now at this 157 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,960 counter, but it's not very thoughtful. I mean, this is 158 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:30,500 thoughtful. 159 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:35,480 Thank you. Well, and also, I could, I had lunch with a friend 160 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:40,540 of mine years ago, and it was our first time meeting, and he 161 00:08:40,540 --> 00:08:44,380 sent me a handwritten thank you. Yeah, that showed up at my 162 00:08:44,380 --> 00:08:46,900 house. Wow. And I've held on to that. It 163 00:08:46,900 --> 00:08:49,960 makes an impression, yeah, because somebody put effort into 164 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:51,640 that. Yeah, you know, it's crazy, 165 00:08:51,700 --> 00:08:56,200 you know, I used to do, and this is some shame on me. I guess 166 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,100 things have either gotten busier or I've gotten lazier. Is that 167 00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:02,280 every time I would do a drum clinic, I would write a 168 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,400 handwritten thank you card, and I would send it to the store so 169 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,280 you are thoughtful. Come on. I used to do it, and now I'm now 170 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,620 just like, it's like a text, thanks so much for having me, 171 00:09:10,620 --> 00:09:12,840 guys. I'll see you next time. I mean, I don't know. I think it's 172 00:09:12,900 --> 00:09:14,700 just a product of the times we're living. Well, 173 00:09:14,700 --> 00:09:17,520 yeah, well, it's easy to really stand out, because if you do go 174 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,480 analog, you can certainly make an impression 175 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,780 Exactly, exactly. I think there's so many times I have got 176 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:28,580 two young son, well, young adult sons, however, yeah, they're 19 177 00:09:28,580 --> 00:09:29,060 and 22 178 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,420 oh my god, yeah. They don't look old enough. That's a lot of cool 179 00:09:32,420 --> 00:09:34,160 testosterone in the house. Man, 180 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,800 it is. But they're mostly out of the house. Yeah, one's getting 181 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:41,140 married. But anyways, I remind them I said. It doesn't take 182 00:09:41,140 --> 00:09:46,420 much these days to stand out. It really does, if it holding a 183 00:09:46,420 --> 00:09:50,560 door, looking, not staring at your phone, but paying attention 184 00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:51,640 when using correct 185 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:56,500 grammar and just English in a text message and not text speak. 186 00:09:56,500 --> 00:10:00,660 I like I'm trying to break my kids of that, not luv. Or, or, 187 00:10:00,660 --> 00:10:03,960 oh, you know what drives me nuts when people refer to people as 188 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,140 ppl? Pupil, Oh, yeah. Oh, that drives me 189 00:10:07,140 --> 00:10:11,760 purple, all those little things. And I think that I see it paying 190 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:13,560 off, yeah, little things that they 191 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:16,380 do. So, man, you're a world class drummer. You've been here 192 00:10:16,380 --> 00:10:19,140 26 years. You're in the trenches. Everybody knows 193 00:10:19,140 --> 00:10:23,240 Nashville is you know, a place where you come to move the 194 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,480 career floor forward. It's New York, it's LA or it's Nashville. 195 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,360 Of course, I always talk about the tertiary markets. Those are 196 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,000 great your Austin's, your Miamis your Seattle, they have great 197 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,300 music scenes. But really, there's, there's, like, three 198 00:10:35,300 --> 00:10:38,240 big ones, and Nashville is becoming the favorite, right? 199 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,680 Yeah, where it's like, wow. You know, I just moved here to 200 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:44,560 Spring Hill, Tennessee. I took myself. I used to live right by 201 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:48,040 you. Was this from our old neighborhood, Starbucks corner. 202 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,100 So convenient, yes, so convenient. But, you know, you 203 00:10:51,100 --> 00:10:54,340 can, you know, for the moment, you could buy a home here, and 204 00:10:54,340 --> 00:10:57,820 there's dirt and and, and, but at the same time, you know, we 205 00:10:57,820 --> 00:11:00,480 could be, we could challenge ourselves. There's classical 206 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,880 music here, there's rock and roll music here, there's 207 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,940 contemporary Christian all types of Country and Western music. 208 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,360 Busses are leaving this town every single day. Songs are 209 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,740 being written right now. It was a game changer for you to move 210 00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:16,560 here right as far as like, what you were aspiring to do and what 211 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:19,800 you did, you did it, yeah, well, 212 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,300 it was, for me, it wasn't moving to Nashville. It was moving out 213 00:11:23,300 --> 00:11:26,480 of Columbus, right? It was moving away from home, yeah? 214 00:11:26,540 --> 00:11:30,440 Because, as we were discussing off air before we started, I 215 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,680 went to school. I went to college, studied at a university 216 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:36,800 level in my hometown, capital, university 217 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,240 with Bob brouthype, brighthope. Brighthope, sorry, yeah, sorry, 218 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:45,760 Bob, because I saw Bob last two basics ago, because I went to 219 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:50,440 one of those Yamaha sounds of summer drum set camps. And it 220 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,560 was Ed So Bob and Steve Houghton. They 221 00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:56,320 used to do that every summer at Capitol University, every 222 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,440 summer, yeah. And when I worked for Bob one summer, he's like, 223 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,760 Listen, if you just want to hang out at some of the sessions 224 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,640 while you're working for me, we'll, you know, do that. That's 225 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,220 how I afford it, to kind of hang out, yeah? So we both kind of 226 00:12:08,220 --> 00:12:12,360 went there, right, yeah, right. And there was one other Ed Soph, 227 00:12:12,660 --> 00:12:13,200 Ed Soph and 228 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,360 Steve Houghton. Steve Houghton, that was where Steve Houghton 229 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,760 was like, Hey, kid, you know, you're up tempo swing. You 230 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,040 gotta, like, double down on that. That's an Achilles heel. 231 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,400 Like, you know, he wasn't, he was great. He just cut to the 232 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,740 point your reading's Great. Style is great. Use it then to 233 00:12:24,740 --> 00:12:27,140 get down to Cadet and get get that going here, you know? I was 234 00:12:27,140 --> 00:12:27,620 like, All right, 235 00:12:27,620 --> 00:12:30,260 thanks, Steve, yeah, and Columbus is another one of those 236 00:12:30,260 --> 00:12:34,340 towns with the talent. Is amazing. I was so inspired by so 237 00:12:34,340 --> 00:12:37,040 many of the musicians and the drummers that were there. Yeah. 238 00:12:38,420 --> 00:12:41,980 I also, after college, started working at Columbus pro 239 00:12:41,980 --> 00:12:46,600 percussion. Nice, Jim Rupp shop owner, yeah, okay, that's right 240 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,760 time. Okay, yeah, not anymore, but so I got to meet and got to 241 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:57,220 know all these players that I was aspiring to be more like. 242 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,500 And when you're a kid, you think all you got to do is get good 243 00:13:01,620 --> 00:13:06,300 and you'll be successful. Well, we know that's not true. Yeah. 244 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,800 And it was more profound to me when I saw some of my favorite 245 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,600 players struggling to buy sticks. Whoa. And I had friends 246 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,080 that had moved to Nashville and were saying, When are you coming 247 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,520 down? When are you coming down? You know, mid to late 90s, they 248 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,540 were here. They were doing it. Listen, musicians are treated 249 00:13:26,540 --> 00:13:31,460 with respect. It's a legit vocation. I don't know. I mean, 250 00:13:31,460 --> 00:13:34,700 I was feeling comfortable. I was still in my hometown. I knew the 251 00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:37,760 lay of the land. I was getting to know the community. I was 252 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,920 playing with so many people. I was subbing for my heroes, yeah? 253 00:13:42,580 --> 00:13:46,300 And I was working in a rock band, pop band, deadhead band, 254 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:51,400 Brazilian Brazilian band, fusion, uh, plan and a 22 piece 255 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,120 Big Band every Monday night. Nothing like with my former 256 00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:00,100 teacher, yeah, but learning more in that moment than I did when I 257 00:14:00,100 --> 00:14:00,780 was in school 258 00:14:00,780 --> 00:14:04,020 in an academic environment, yeah, yes, yeah. So I felt like 259 00:14:04,020 --> 00:14:04,800 I had more 260 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,580 to do. Yeah. And then my relationship with my now wife, 261 00:14:08,580 --> 00:14:11,580 was growing, and it's like there was just a lot going on. I 262 00:14:11,580 --> 00:14:15,480 wasn't ready to go. Meanwhile, one of my high school friends, 263 00:14:15,540 --> 00:14:18,600 Jay Demarcus, had moved down. I did not know that. I did not 264 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,560 know that. Yeah, okay, so in high we went to a vocational 265 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:26,300 school together. You start to school, studied piano and bass, 266 00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:29,900 and he was in a Christian rock band, and he's like, come play 267 00:14:29,900 --> 00:14:33,440 drums with us. And so I played in that band for a little while, 268 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,780 and then right out of high school, he was like, I'm going 269 00:14:35,780 --> 00:14:38,780 Nashville. And I'm like, what you're supposed to go to 270 00:14:38,780 --> 00:14:41,920 college? That's what you do after high school? He's like, 271 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,900 not me, yeah. A lot of my friends, yeah. And just that was 272 00:14:46,900 --> 00:14:53,320 just hardwired in me to do that, which I'm still very grateful 273 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,220 that I did. So Jay was one of those people. So Nashville had a 274 00:14:57,220 --> 00:15:01,860 draw for all the organic reasons. All those reasons you 275 00:15:01,860 --> 00:15:05,880 knew people. You knew that it would be a respected thing. It 276 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,060 didn't have the scariness of hailing taxis, learning the 277 00:15:09,060 --> 00:15:13,380 subway system, living on the 405, and yes, and that makes 278 00:15:13,380 --> 00:15:15,840 sense. But I could totally relate to that, because when I 279 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,480 was in Dallas, kind of, my finishing school was in Denton, 280 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,140 and you're getting all sorts of academic experience, and then, 281 00:15:21,140 --> 00:15:27,020 you know, it's like me and Jim Riley and Carlock and Luke Adams 282 00:15:27,020 --> 00:15:29,540 and Blair Simpson, all of us. We would work in Dallas. And Dallas 283 00:15:29,540 --> 00:15:31,940 had such a beautiful, robust scene. It was like, Well, I want 284 00:15:31,940 --> 00:15:34,700 to play in that fusion band, and I want to play in that and I 285 00:15:34,700 --> 00:15:37,520 would play in a 22 piece Big Band on Monday nights, and then 286 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,040 another one on Tuesday nights. And it was like, my finishing 287 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,900 school was like, I really want to check this box, yep, and then 288 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,760 I'll make this move. So I was 26 when I moved here, and quickly 289 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,360 turned 27 and my first person that I saw and met here was Jim 290 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:57,280 Riley, wow. Who was your first person that when you moved here? 291 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,840 You know, did you run into somebody at the at the Lowe's or 292 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:02,040 the Starbucks or the 293 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,700 who was the first hand you shook that? 294 00:16:06,420 --> 00:16:09,060 Oh my gosh, who was the first person you networked with? 295 00:16:09,060 --> 00:16:11,640 Yeah, man, right. Well, I think 296 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,500 I needed to start working and paying rent, because I was still 297 00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:20,040 traveling from Nashville to Columbus, which is a seven hour 298 00:16:20,340 --> 00:16:25,640 drive, and still playing with some of the bands in Columbus 299 00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:29,180 and coming back, and then putting my rent on my credit 300 00:16:29,180 --> 00:16:35,240 card and just oh, gosh, another friend, Josh Berkheimer, 301 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:41,440 elementary school friend, wow, Columbus that I've known longer 302 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,840 than anybody alive. Right now, I haven't talked to Josh in 303 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,080 forever. Is he still at it? He's great, yeah, he's back in town 304 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:53,980 and just, yeah, staying really busy. And but I needed a job, 305 00:16:53,980 --> 00:16:57,100 and I think I went to a temp agency and worked in an office 306 00:16:57,100 --> 00:17:00,280 for like, two weeks in office space, the real office, the real 307 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,880 office. I mean, I did the job for two weeks before I got off 308 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,780 for the job at forks, drum closet, all right, Gary, so it 309 00:17:06,780 --> 00:17:11,880 was, it was an easy transition. Gary knew Jim, one of their key 310 00:17:12,060 --> 00:17:15,840 employees, was leaving, also named Matt. It was a easy fit, 311 00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:22,220 yeah, and but I quickly learned Nashville is not Columbus. And 312 00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:27,140 from a retail point of view, you have Touring professionals a lot 313 00:17:27,140 --> 00:17:30,200 with endorsements. You don't have the weekend warriors. You 314 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,560 don't have the people with real jobs just, I mean, selling in 315 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,980 Columbus at COVID propagation was easy. I was probably the 316 00:17:36,980 --> 00:17:41,080 worst salesman at forks, drum closet, really. Yeah, a lot of 317 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,820 those guys to this day still make fun of me and laugh at the 318 00:17:46,060 --> 00:17:47,260 live opportunities. Why 319 00:17:47,260 --> 00:17:48,220 did they think that? 320 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,420 Well, I think someone would come in and say, I think I need a new 321 00:17:52,420 --> 00:17:56,140 pedal, and I'd take it, and my gym rep sensibility would be 322 00:17:56,140 --> 00:17:59,380 like, well, let's take a look at this. Oh, well, just need a new 323 00:17:59,380 --> 00:18:02,940 spring, and let's clean this and oil it up. And there you spend 324 00:18:02,940 --> 00:18:04,860 $5 and off you go. Oh, instead 325 00:18:04,860 --> 00:18:07,980 of setting so instead of taking advantage of the opportunity, 326 00:18:08,460 --> 00:18:09,780 you just figured I would just, 327 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,360 yeah, and Gary's like, what are you doing? 328 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:15,060 You gotta, I mean, forks does have a beautiful repair 329 00:18:15,060 --> 00:18:16,140 department. They do. 330 00:18:16,140 --> 00:18:18,780 They do. And, I mean, I'm being somewhat hyperbolic, but at the 331 00:18:18,780 --> 00:18:23,360 same time, they weren't angry. They were just like, man, you 332 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:24,320 could have is 333 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,420 your training? Does Gary put you through, like, a day or 334 00:18:26,420 --> 00:18:28,700 something where it's like, this is sales 101, it 335 00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:32,780 was Marcy goosey, where Columbus percussion. It's like, well, we 336 00:18:32,780 --> 00:18:36,740 have these seminars through Nam. We're going to send you guys off 337 00:18:36,740 --> 00:18:40,900 to do this. I was the president of the Student Association of 338 00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:45,040 Nam because of my degree in music business. So I was doing 339 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,760 that. I was I was not focused on working in the retail industry 340 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,600 or doing music business per se. I wanted to be a player, which 341 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,620 is why I moved to Nashville. Yeah, it was interesting. So I 342 00:18:56,620 --> 00:19:01,860 mean, love forks, love Gary, and we got to a point where I was 343 00:19:01,860 --> 00:19:06,300 getting more and more calls to do gigs and could not sustain 344 00:19:06,540 --> 00:19:08,700 the workload he needed from me. And 345 00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:12,840 when, what year was this? 2000 2001 Okay, I think 346 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,520 before my time. Yeah. And so he's like, You need to make a 347 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,320 choice. Either I need you here or can't have you working here. 348 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,740 And I was like, Gary, thanks for the opportunity. I moved down 349 00:19:24,740 --> 00:19:28,280 here to play, yeah? And we had, you know, probably a day or two. 350 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,300 We were just not happy with each other. And then we're like, 351 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:33,320 quickly 352 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,340 reestablish. I'll come back and shop here, you know, because, I 353 00:19:37,340 --> 00:19:40,460 mean, that was around the time when, you know, I'm sure I would 354 00:19:40,460 --> 00:19:43,780 come in and chat with you, yeah, down in, because now that 355 00:19:43,780 --> 00:19:46,840 original Gary is so he was so forward thinking. It really did 356 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,640 start as a drum closet, and then he was able to open the closet 357 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,160 up a little bit more. Then he got that space next to corner 358 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,820 music, which is now a, you know, high dollar athleisure V A 359 00:19:57,820 --> 00:20:02,340 store. So bougie, yeah. Mean, it is, it is the best athleisure. 360 00:20:02,340 --> 00:20:06,240 If you like Lulu Lemon, you will love viori. Anyways, 361 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,940 is it kind of like a knockoff brand, or is it the superior 362 00:20:08,940 --> 00:20:09,960 brand, Lulu Lemon? 363 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,300 It's a little bit more, I think it's a little bit more 364 00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:15,000 expensive. Does it have the va va voom with the ladies? Yeah, 365 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,420 oh yeah. But actually, their men's line is, is nice. So if 366 00:20:18,420 --> 00:20:21,260 you want, like, nice workout pants that like taper and make 367 00:20:21,260 --> 00:20:25,100 you feel sexy. You go and you drop them why? Because you had 368 00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:27,440 you. And I would always teach each other to why. And I at the 369 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,680 YMCA on Old Hickory Boulevard, and I miss it. They closed it 370 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,280 down. I miss it too. It was so great because there was a lot of 371 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,740 it was like an older community that would go there, and a lot 372 00:20:36,740 --> 00:20:39,320 of times there would be no one there, and you and I would just 373 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:44,500 have the run of the place, and I realized you were a serious, you 374 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:47,680 know, serious about maintaining your playing career and staying 375 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,780 healthy and wanting to be healthy for the rest of your 376 00:20:49,780 --> 00:20:52,240 life. Because you weren't doing all these, just like standard, 377 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,400 all right, let's do some squats. We're doing, do some burpees. 378 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,740 I'm out of here. You were doing all sorts of things with 379 00:20:56,740 --> 00:21:00,240 kettlebells and stretching and all that stuff to Yeah, you 380 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:00,480 know, 381 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,320 stretching is like the elixir for age, right? Do it every day? 382 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,160 Yeah, it's the science is still out. We just can't slow it down, 383 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:14,640 right? I mean, it totally and, and again, at forks when I was 384 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,960 there, that's where I met people like you, yeah, and, and drummer 385 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,000 Jim Riley, and such a hub, yeah, and I'm trying to think of Trey 386 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:28,760 gray. Trey gray. We became close there, and I got to know so much 387 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,600 about what country music was. I knew nothing about I knew Garth 388 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,780 Brooks and Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers was, yeah, but I 389 00:21:35,780 --> 00:21:38,720 just knew there was something about Nashville that could offer 390 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:43,300 that. So I'm trying to think players like Greg Morrow on a 391 00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:46,960 very unassuming, so quiet, yeah, and just sweet. And I'm like, 392 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,460 wait a minute, I know. I now know who this is. This guy's a 393 00:21:51,460 --> 00:21:57,340 badass, but his personality so sweet. That's the key. I just 394 00:21:57,340 --> 00:21:59,920 got to be really nice and sweet to everyone, and they'll think 395 00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:00,600 that I'm great. But 396 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,120 the funny thing is, to your point, and I was, you know, when 397 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:06,600 you brought it up before about your selling ability, that's a 398 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,480 sales technique. You know, you you asking, the only thing I 399 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:14,520 would qualify because I spent some time in sales, your your 400 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,880 Integris nature came out. You know what? I mean, that's a 401 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,520 relationship builder that I know this guy's not going to take 402 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,880 advantage of me, yeah. But I mean, I the only thing I would 403 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,160 say before that me, like, Okay, are you interested in getting a 404 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,620 new pedal? You just want to fix the old one? Yeah, that would be 405 00:22:27,620 --> 00:22:30,020 a good question to ask going into it. But I mean, that 406 00:22:30,020 --> 00:22:32,720 approach is very relational, the way you went about 407 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,360 it, yeah, I don't want to take anything away from what Gary No, 408 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:35,840 no, no, 409 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,360 absolutely still got to be a businessman, yeah. But if you 410 00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:40,900 were to in there for the long haul, you would have built up a 411 00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:42,220 book of business, as 412 00:22:42,220 --> 00:22:45,400 did Gary and Melissa, right? Because it was based on that. 413 00:22:45,820 --> 00:22:50,380 And I had that scenario with Ben Caesar earlier, when I first met 414 00:22:50,380 --> 00:22:55,720 him, yeah, and as a salesman, helping him find a new double 415 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,200 pedal and a new company. And then, like, Man, I like this 416 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,960 guy, hearing him try out pedals and like, Wait, whoa, who does 417 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,100 he play with? This is great. And then expanding those little ways 418 00:23:08,100 --> 00:23:10,680 of expanding my world and under better understanding what 419 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,900 Nashville was yeah and is Yeah, but Nashville was in 2000 2001 420 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,380 my new world. Where do I fit? I'm not the kind of medium fish 421 00:23:21,380 --> 00:23:26,000 in a small town, I'm a very small fish in a big town. And 422 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,220 how do I manage that? And 423 00:23:28,220 --> 00:23:32,120 now you're a big fish in a little, big town. You really 424 00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:34,100 are. I mean, you're a big fish. I mean, somebody needs a 425 00:23:34,100 --> 00:23:36,560 drummer, your name's going to be on the list. That's the thing 426 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,260 is, you got to get on the list right? And now you're on the 427 00:23:39,260 --> 00:23:42,820 list. You put in 26 years, you should be on the list. Thank so, 428 00:23:42,820 --> 00:23:46,300 thank god, that's amazing. So, yeah, you got to meet a lot of 429 00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:50,440 the tastemakers and the guys that were doing it totally, you 430 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,160 know, totally. And so before I came, I kind of knew, all right, 431 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,040 you got to get to know Greg Morrow, Chad Cromwell, Lonnie 432 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,080 Wilson, Eddie bears, there's a Shannon forest kid, Paul lime, 433 00:24:01,620 --> 00:24:04,860 Steve Brewster, is doing the Christians? Like, where are 434 00:24:04,860 --> 00:24:08,580 these guys? Where do they hang out? Can I shake their hand? And 435 00:24:08,820 --> 00:24:11,640 then you realize, well, I could be a fly on the wall. I can ask 436 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,360 them questions, but they're not necessarily gonna get me work. 437 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:18,240 I'm gonna have to get work from band leaders, bass players, 438 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,260 keyboard players, contractors. Yeah, you know they could. They 439 00:24:21,260 --> 00:24:23,780 could. They could show you the way. Totally, yeah, you know, 440 00:24:23,780 --> 00:24:24,080 but at 441 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,480 least you know the to your credit. And this came up in a 442 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,320 recent conversation on a podcast that I produce, the people 443 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,800 coming to town now, especially in the songwriting arena, they 444 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,500 don't seem to have a reverence for those who came before them, 445 00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:38,660 understanding that they're standing on the shoulders of 446 00:24:38,660 --> 00:24:41,560 giants. Three chords in the truth. Yeah, no, but Harlan 447 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,080 Howard, apparently that's a thing now, like there's just 448 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,720 they have no idea who people are, the people that wrote the 449 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,040 biggies. You know that they're 450 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,880 trying to, you're right. I mean, I think it's, is that say, is 451 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,540 that the same nuance than that? Because I know you have people 452 00:24:55,540 --> 00:24:57,820 that reach out to you and say, Rich. I don't know if you know 453 00:24:57,820 --> 00:25:01,560 who I am, but I'd love to have coffee. Yeah? And meet river of 454 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:06,300 coffee. I had, I had that meeting with, with a great young 455 00:25:06,540 --> 00:25:12,840 drummer about a month ago. Yeah, and one of his inspirations was, 456 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,100 you, wow. So it, I mean, there are young people that are, you 457 00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:20,040 know, finding, but I do have conversations with people, and 458 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,000 they're like, I, don't, I don't know who that is. Wow, 459 00:25:24,260 --> 00:25:26,780 what Eddie bears. You mentioned Eddie bears or something like 460 00:25:26,780 --> 00:25:27,020 that. 461 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,960 No, no, no, wasn't Eddie, but, you know, could have been even 462 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,840 somebody like Greg Morrow or somebody like that, Jim 463 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:33,320 McCarthy. 464 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,680 That's understandable, so, but, I mean, I Jim played in 465 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,960 Connecticut white bread, though. I mean, that's, you can't deny 466 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:39,620 it. That is a good 467 00:25:39,620 --> 00:25:41,260 I mean, that's, that's, you know. I also 468 00:25:41,260 --> 00:25:45,520 wonder if access to information is so easy now 469 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,400 there's no excuse for it these days, you know. But I'm 470 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:49,660 wondering if that would be 471 00:25:49,660 --> 00:25:53,320 the excuse is like I can access everything I need to know 472 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,800 through the pot, through a podcast, through YouTube 473 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,240 interviews, through all this stuff, where, if you wanted to 474 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,480 find something out, even as simple as how to get from point 475 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,660 A to point B, you had to pull out a map. You had to do, we're 476 00:26:06,660 --> 00:26:11,340 from that generation, so not to be the old guy on the lawn, but 477 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:16,200 how do you kind of repurpose those skills? Yeah, in a way 478 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:16,920 that's useful 479 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,120 is there, is there a reverence for the amount of access to, you 480 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:23,180 know, again, standing on the shoulders of giants, those 481 00:26:23,180 --> 00:26:26,060 giants that are in town, like when I first moved here, was for 482 00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:29,660 radio, yeah. And moved here in oh, five, having a heavy 483 00:26:29,660 --> 00:26:34,760 drumming background. Once upon a time, I would go to forks and 484 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,540 see, you know, hey, you can get lessons from Chester Thompson 485 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,940 and Johnny Rabb. And I'm like, Oh, my God, right, really? Yeah, 486 00:26:42,940 --> 00:26:44,200 that's so cool. 487 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,880 And, and how do you, how do you have that reverence? But how do 488 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,560 you make that transition from it's time for me to go, it's 489 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:58,840 time for me to work professionally, and, you know, 490 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:05,220 share the space or have my gig as well. Yeah, that reverence 491 00:27:05,220 --> 00:27:10,740 has never gone away, if anything, it remains. And after 492 00:27:10,740 --> 00:27:14,400 doing the podcast, which I'm sure we'll talk about, yeah, uh, 493 00:27:14,460 --> 00:27:19,440 I've learned that I that reverence is transferable to my 494 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:25,160 peers, to younger players that I feel inspired by and and kind of 495 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,240 see it as a as a community that gives me more peace of mind, as 496 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,500 opposed to, where do I fit? How will people see me, and the 497 00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:37,760 competitive that you know, competitive nature is in and 498 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,860 shedding that, yeah, so that you can then get back to what 499 00:27:41,860 --> 00:27:43,780 inspired you to pick up the sticks. Well, 500 00:27:43,780 --> 00:27:46,480 as we know, the drum community is the best, you know, you know, 501 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,700 back in the day, you know, when I said, 502 00:27:48,940 --> 00:27:50,260 Thanks, bye See, ya 503 00:27:51,580 --> 00:27:55,360 know, I'd go to The Great Escape and and it was like a comic book 504 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:58,300 store, but it also had used records and tapes, and I would 505 00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:02,940 just get, you know, you know, uh, Tammy wynette's Greatest 506 00:28:02,940 --> 00:28:05,520 Hits and Merle Haggard's Greatest Hits and Gene Watson's 507 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,980 Greatest Hits. And so that's what, how I started to learn the 508 00:28:07,980 --> 00:28:10,800 vernacular of country music. And then we could look at the actual 509 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,860 written credits and go, oh yeah, Jerry crew, and oh Tommy wells, 510 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,980 oh my God, oh Eddie bears. And then so you I learned these 511 00:28:16,980 --> 00:28:19,980 names, and now we just keep trying to buy records. Now, if 512 00:28:19,980 --> 00:28:22,280 you have $13 a month for Spotify. You have all the 513 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,380 world's music at your fingertips. So then you could 514 00:28:24,380 --> 00:28:27,320 just Google top Nashville session recording drummers. 515 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,960 Boom, it comes up. Those are all the names you can go to drummer 516 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,200 world, right? You could read about the guy. Then you could go 517 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,960 to their allmusic.com you could look at their discography. Then 518 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,840 you could start to go on Spotify and put playlists together by 519 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,480 style, by artist, by Tempo, or by drummer. I was like, so all 520 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,940 the kids that come with study with me, I'm like, hey, put 521 00:28:45,940 --> 00:28:48,580 together an Eddie bears playlist, a Lonnie Wilson play. 522 00:28:48,580 --> 00:28:51,160 You're gonna now you're covering 80s. You're covering 90s, the 523 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,640 early 2000s you got these playlists and find out what 524 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,820 makes these drummers ticks. Do they do they like high pitched 525 00:28:57,820 --> 00:29:01,080 snare drums? They're the do they program loops a lot, what's 526 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,800 their their vibe and their swagger, and why does Lonnie 527 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,680 Wilson never play the ride cymbal? And you know what I 528 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,380 mean, but, but there's a lot of crashes, and everybody has this 529 00:29:10,380 --> 00:29:13,680 thing that they brought to the table, right? Which is so cool, 530 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:14,100 and 531 00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:18,180 I think you're making me realize and telling us that about what 532 00:29:18,180 --> 00:29:20,420 inspired me to start the podcast. Because when I was 533 00:29:20,420 --> 00:29:25,220 working retail at Columbus or in Nashville, I had this really 534 00:29:25,220 --> 00:29:28,880 organic way of discovering who these players were, yeah, and 535 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,180 then using that as a launching point to then go down those 536 00:29:32,180 --> 00:29:35,960 rabbit holes. And, you know, it's like, oh, so this is Greg 537 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,300 Morrow. He played on that Montgomery Gentry record of all 538 00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:42,940 those songs that I've I have to learn for this week. This is my 539 00:29:42,940 --> 00:29:46,420 town, right? Yeah. And it's like, as I'm learning those 540 00:29:46,420 --> 00:29:49,540 songs for gigs and writing charts, I'm like, wow, that 541 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,400 that, or when I was one of my first big artist gigs, well, 542 00:29:54,460 --> 00:29:58,720 artist gigs. What a musical artist gigs was Mark Selby, 543 00:29:58,780 --> 00:30:02,580 yeah. And. He was kind of like a rocker, yeah, for sure, but we 544 00:30:02,580 --> 00:30:04,860 were, you know, opening up for country artists and doing 545 00:30:04,860 --> 00:30:10,680 different things like that, and and Chad Cromwell played on his 546 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,480 record that we were touring on. And so I got to dig deep into 547 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:20,480 that, his style, his approach, his sound, and then talk to Mark 548 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,180 about that experience. What does he do and then meet him 549 00:30:23,180 --> 00:30:28,280 personally? So when I left that I I missed that interaction, 550 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,940 that that actual match, as opposed to just like, turning on 551 00:30:32,060 --> 00:30:35,840 YouTube or whatever, and kind of, like, no, I need, I need to 552 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,660 know more, not because I'm looking for gigs from drummers, 553 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,720 but like, how does it? How do I stay dialed in to the 554 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:50,200 vernacular, to Gosh? Deep Brewster is such a great example 555 00:30:50,740 --> 00:30:54,700 of a drummer that's been on the scene for decades, yeah, and a 556 00:30:54,700 --> 00:31:01,140 seasoned player, but knows that he has to stay current with drum 557 00:31:01,140 --> 00:31:05,220 tones, sounds, styles, approaches, because he's in the 558 00:31:05,220 --> 00:31:09,780 studio, and young producers, young songwriters, are going to 559 00:31:09,780 --> 00:31:12,180 be like, Okay, here's the song, let's go. And he's going to be 560 00:31:12,180 --> 00:31:15,420 like, I know what to do for this. As opposed to, well, this 561 00:31:15,420 --> 00:31:18,360 is what we used to do, and this is how we did it, and this is 562 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,160 how I did it, yeah? He knows that doesn't fly. Yeah, he's a 563 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:27,020 perfect example of that. And so that, I don't know, again, 564 00:31:27,260 --> 00:31:32,180 drumming community the best, yeah, and it's, we're, we're in 565 00:31:32,180 --> 00:31:36,020 a practice, right? Like, like a doctor, like a lawyer. It's, 566 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,440 it's forever, yeah, it's, it's, it will continue to be, you 567 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,020 know, that type Yeah, totally. 568 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,680 And now, now, I'm sure you have your Nashville family tree where 569 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,500 it's like, this, be got that. Be got that. So you're working with 570 00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:50,740 Mark Selby, and then then maybe you get a call from Billy Dean, 571 00:31:50,740 --> 00:31:52,720 and you're working with Michelle Wright, and you're touring 572 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,480 Canada, and maybe you're playing with Julie Roberts, and you get 573 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,420 to play the Grand Ole Opry. Now, this last gig that you did for a 574 00:31:58,420 --> 00:32:00,640 while front men of country music, yeah, that to be fun. 575 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,980 Tell us about that experiment, because those are three. I 576 00:32:02,980 --> 00:32:04,260 because those are three iconic voices, yeah, 577 00:32:04,260 --> 00:32:08,580 yeah, yeah. So again, that all stems again. I love the way you 578 00:32:08,580 --> 00:32:12,060 refer to it as the family tree, and I can see the base of it, 579 00:32:12,060 --> 00:32:14,880 and then it branches off. You do a gig, you meet somebody, you 580 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,840 really connect, and it branches off. And then on a next gig, you 581 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,580 meet somebody else. So one of the scenes that I've been in and 582 00:32:22,580 --> 00:32:26,960 out of in the 2526 years has been lower broad, yeah, like so 583 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,020 many people, I don't live down there. There's been moments 584 00:32:30,020 --> 00:32:33,440 where I've gone five, six years without stepping foot down 585 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:40,960 there. But in working down there with players that I adore, I met 586 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,440 a bass player whose close friend was a guitar player who was 587 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,920 really close with Larry and did a bunch of stuff with Restless 588 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:53,200 Heart. And so he was starting to form a core band that would go 589 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,280 out and support these guys doing solo or dual acts. So we did a 590 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:04,080 Tim rush low show. Yeah, we did, you know, Larry and Richie 591 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,100 together. We did those. And then they're like, over time, it 592 00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:10,380 started to get more and more, and they're like, Okay, they're 593 00:33:10,380 --> 00:33:13,860 gonna combine, and we're gonna do a super corporate, call it 594 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,760 the front men of country. So I was on the ground floor of that, 595 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,740 yeah, and so it was exciting, but I had just left a road gig 596 00:33:21,860 --> 00:33:25,520 after, you know, oh, is this the savannah jack man. Savannah jack 597 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:30,980 man, after 15 years feeling good about working from home, doing 598 00:33:30,980 --> 00:33:35,480 more home studio stuff. Okay, work, building my network again, 599 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,380 diversifying my portfolio, if you will, gotta make 600 00:33:39,380 --> 00:33:44,500 sure you have gold and you got to have art, gold bars and art, 601 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,320 that's right. And Doge, no, and 602 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,640 crypto, were you in the crypto? No, you're not okay. I do. I got 603 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,260 to get in the game, man, I think 604 00:33:53,260 --> 00:33:55,600 I have some Doge somewhere on a lost app. 605 00:33:55,660 --> 00:33:58,060 Oh, you might want to find that. Yeah, I think so. 606 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,540 So especially after tomorrow when Snowmageddon hits. Anyways, 607 00:34:03,780 --> 00:34:07,320 I but I found myself, we're going to Texas, and it was like 608 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,320 it was all fun and exciting the way it is. You're I'm back on a 609 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:17,700 bus and but before I get to that point, I can say, lead singers 610 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:23,300 can be tough. It can be great. It can be the worst 611 00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:24,200 Tim. Tim knows what he 612 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,900 wants. Yeah, he'll tell you, Well, you got three lead 613 00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:27,620 singers. Yeah, you 614 00:34:27,620 --> 00:34:30,740 got three. You're like, this could be a nightmare. I think, 615 00:34:30,740 --> 00:34:34,880 canceled each other out. They were the sweetest to work for, 616 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,780 and gave me a lot of power and control from the drum throne, 617 00:34:40,780 --> 00:34:45,220 nice and so, like, this is record tempo. Do we want to move 618 00:34:45,220 --> 00:34:48,700 it? Uh, I feel like you're pushing. Do we want to do this? 619 00:34:48,820 --> 00:34:52,540 No, no, you let us know. What do you where do you want to go? How 620 00:34:52,540 --> 00:34:56,500 do you want I mean, lots of collaboration in those early 621 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,780 rehearsals. They're so chill, yeah. And 622 00:34:59,020 --> 00:35:01,800 I'm like, I like this. Did you have two clicks as a general 623 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,080 rule from the studio recording? Or no, I 624 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,040 did not. I don't remember exactly. I think it's when I 625 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,100 hear where they're putting the melody. And each one of those 626 00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:15,300 guys has one singing right down the middle, one's on top, and 627 00:35:15,300 --> 00:35:18,780 one's behind, or, you know, so it's just trying to treat each 628 00:35:18,780 --> 00:35:21,920 one differently. Now they would sing each of their hits, 40 629 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,880 number one hits between three of them, you know, 30 million 630 00:35:25,940 --> 00:35:30,500 whatever. And so playing some of these hits with the playing 631 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,600 bluest eyes of Texas, with Larry singing, yep, was goosebump. 632 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:37,880 What did they sing in your house? 633 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,680 Front Porch, looking in No, did they sing 634 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,080 from your house? Though? Jim, did you have a home concert? 635 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,100 Yeah, why? Because back in the day, I have a story. That's why 636 00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:50,860 I resonate on this is okay. When the front men were getting 637 00:35:50,860 --> 00:35:55,480 started, Tim reached out to me because I was doing the vid SIGs 638 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,720 at the time. You can recall those, the white background 639 00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:01,980 videos. That's how you and I met totally and they saw yours, they 640 00:36:01,980 --> 00:36:05,160 saw Reggie hams and stuff like that. So I think I don't know if 641 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,440 Tim reached out to you and you pointed him my way, or maybe he 642 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,200 reached out to Reggie. But anyway, he called me up, told me 643 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,360 who he was. I'm like, Oh, hey, how you doing? He's like, So, 644 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,480 hey, we want to do a video, much like you did for Reggie and 645 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,620 rich. And I said, Okay, you know, I said, I shoot him in my 646 00:36:19,620 --> 00:36:22,520 front room, man, you know, are you okay with that? Are you guys 647 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,120 are used to hide budget music videos, and I've seen the Lone 648 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,580 Star videos where they're on glass floors and all this. I'm 649 00:36:28,580 --> 00:36:32,060 like, It's not that. It's my front room and it's your front 650 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,320 room, looking in my front room, looking in, yeah, and he, we 651 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,260 ended up shooting the video with all three of them. And it was, 652 00:36:39,260 --> 00:36:43,900 it was one of those things that was kind of so profound. Because 653 00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:47,980 when I moved here in oh five, I just always had this impression. 654 00:36:47,980 --> 00:36:51,100 I said, you know, Courtney, my wife, Courtney, I said, I just 655 00:36:51,100 --> 00:36:53,920 have a feeling we're gonna have people of note, like artists in 656 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,300 our house. And that happened, I believe in oh nine or 10, four 657 00:36:58,300 --> 00:37:00,600 years after we moved here. I mean, literally, it was a night 658 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,720 where she, like, made all the food and everything, and like 659 00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:06,780 catering, if you will, and Larry's trying out the pizza she 660 00:37:06,780 --> 00:37:10,560 made. And so great, Richie's asking which tie he should wear. 661 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,860 He's asking Courtney for advice, and I'm looking at her, and 662 00:37:13,860 --> 00:37:14,880 Richie starts playing, 663 00:37:16,620 --> 00:37:18,720 amazed, yeah. And you know, 664 00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:24,620 already there, and all these amazing songs in our living 665 00:37:24,620 --> 00:37:27,500 room, and it's the voice, and I'm looking at Courtney, I'm 666 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:28,820 like, can you freaking believe 667 00:37:28,820 --> 00:37:31,280 this is in our house? Yeah, very 668 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:32,180 intuitive. You made it 669 00:37:32,180 --> 00:37:36,200 happen, buddy. I just, I just knew, yeah, yeah, it's crazy. So 670 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,900 that was, that had to be fun. Yeah, it 671 00:37:38,900 --> 00:37:43,720 was, it was fun, and it was, I found myself back out, and it 672 00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:47,740 was, and still, those guys, as legendary as they are, they were 673 00:37:47,740 --> 00:37:50,860 starting a new band and a new project, yeah. And so their 674 00:37:50,860 --> 00:37:54,100 budgetary concerns and so, you know, it was great. They leased 675 00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:57,340 a bus. We weren't in a van and trailer, and that was beautiful. 676 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,400 She'd leave on a Friday, go to Texas, play on a Saturday, be 677 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,180 back sometime Sunday. Yeah, there's three days in town. I 678 00:38:06,180 --> 00:38:09,360 was missing. And, you know, they were taking care of us, yeah, 679 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:16,620 but I was still missing opportunities, and I So, long 680 00:38:16,620 --> 00:38:19,140 story short, it just got to a point where, like, I felt like I 681 00:38:19,140 --> 00:38:23,480 was re establishing myself from a home base, and I was missing 682 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,220 that. I was missing some regular gigs that I had worked really 683 00:38:28,220 --> 00:38:33,020 hard to build up to. And if I was, some of those gigs were on 684 00:38:33,020 --> 00:38:38,480 Broadway, but they were coved gigs, and if I couldn't make 685 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,500 them, then a lot of these people, like, you're never here. 686 00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:44,440 We've got somebody that can be here. Love you. We're gonna call 687 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,020 you for this and this and this. And I'm like, makes sense? Thank 688 00:38:47,020 --> 00:38:51,220 you. Awesome. I'm glad to be on the list. I just wasn't first 689 00:38:51,220 --> 00:38:54,940 call. I got bumped down, second, third, fourth, yeah. I'm like, 690 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,140 this helps me main juggle many things. Yes, 691 00:38:59,140 --> 00:39:01,920 well, you're doing you're doing the podcast, and then you're 692 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,780 doing your home recording, whichever, which is an 693 00:39:03,780 --> 00:39:06,300 expectation nowadays. And I've seen your setup. It's down 694 00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:09,480 there. It's all, you're all oralex and software, it up and 695 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,260 you're ready to go, which is awesome. What are some of the 696 00:39:13,260 --> 00:39:17,100 places down on lower Broadway that that are COVID? Are there 697 00:39:17,100 --> 00:39:21,260 more room? Are some of the rooms they pay better, or there's 698 00:39:21,260 --> 00:39:21,740 better crap, 699 00:39:21,740 --> 00:39:24,920 you know, I think, I think it's, it's sometimes it's the shift. 700 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,980 It could be the environment, could be the crew. So places 701 00:39:27,980 --> 00:39:31,820 like old red, what used to be wild horse, is now category 10. 702 00:39:31,940 --> 00:39:37,040 Luke. Combs is place. Combs is place. And so the pay, the 703 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,200 opportunity, with some of the bands, some of the talent that 704 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,280 is working down there that is either does really well when 705 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,700 they play down there, so they don't have to play eight days a 706 00:39:48,700 --> 00:39:52,360 week, no. So they're playing there a couple times. They also 707 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,440 have other plate spinning, which led to the front man game, yeah, 708 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,200 you know, yeah. So, like, I don't like that place. I don't 709 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,860 want to go. Ever go down there, it's like, man, that's great. 710 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,180 That's fine. If you can, you can do that. But again, I see it not 711 00:40:06,180 --> 00:40:12,120 as an ending, an end game. I mean, it is, it is a it is 712 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,320 another piece of the pie. Yeah, you know, it's another so you 713 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,620 can go down there, you can meet people, and they may be 714 00:40:19,620 --> 00:40:22,460 producing and so one of the one of the groups I work down there 715 00:40:22,460 --> 00:40:27,800 with, the guitar player, has his own studio and works with other 716 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,800 I mentioned, there's a producer here, spring two blocks away, 717 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,640 yeah, from here that has kept me busy for the last four and a 718 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,360 half years. Nice as a as a result of the relationship that 719 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,860 I built with another musician doing some of those slower 720 00:40:41,860 --> 00:40:42,760 Broadway games. Yeah. 721 00:40:43,060 --> 00:40:45,160 Well, so old red, that's not, I mean, I've been down there. 722 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,680 That's nice. It simply seems like the kid is well maintained. 723 00:40:47,860 --> 00:40:50,920 It seems like more than ever the kits are little bit more well 724 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,800 maintained. Back in the day, was there be, like, it was all Thai 725 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,100 kits, or it was all maypex Kids, or like that, you know, these 726 00:40:57,100 --> 00:40:59,740 companies, and now that then there was, like, a pearl period. 727 00:41:00,460 --> 00:41:02,940 I mean, I have my places that I love to go down there, like 728 00:41:02,940 --> 00:41:06,000 when, when tourists come into town, or friends they want to 729 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,620 see lower Broadway, I always take them to Roberts. I just 730 00:41:10,620 --> 00:41:13,500 think Roberts is the holy grail of honky tonks. Like you're 731 00:41:13,500 --> 00:41:17,040 walking into 1950 right, and people are swing dancing and 732 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,180 they're line dancing, and you got the crinkle fries, and then 733 00:41:20,180 --> 00:41:23,720 just the spiders and the boots on the walls, and everybody on 734 00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:27,200 stage is wearing the pearl snap shirts. And it just feels so 735 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,600 nostalgic. And then you could walk right next door, and then 736 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,360 they hire the entire bands playing to clicks. They got 737 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,940 iPads and in ear monitors, and it's like, Oh my God. It's like 738 00:41:34,940 --> 00:41:37,700 a robo band. It's like, completely different from the 739 00:41:37,700 --> 00:41:40,360 you know? It's just a different energy and vibe, and the two 740 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,600 places are right next door, right amazing. And 741 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,480 I think my interest especially when one of the first places I 742 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:51,280 played is the stage, and it was just been a home base for me for 743 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,340 a long time, and I wanted to use those experiences in the early 744 00:41:54,340 --> 00:41:58,180 days of in ears, different things like that, as a way to 745 00:41:58,540 --> 00:42:02,940 acclimate to what was expected from a live drummer and a studio 746 00:42:02,940 --> 00:42:07,080 drummer when I was first here in 2000 the early 2000s I'd never 747 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,780 played live with a click. My experience in the studio was 748 00:42:09,780 --> 00:42:13,740 limited, but I was on the fast track to figure out what it was 749 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,540 that I needed to do to work in Nashville. So then, when I got 750 00:42:18,540 --> 00:42:22,880 the call to play with somebody like Billy Dean. They're like, 751 00:42:23,540 --> 00:42:27,320 we play to a click. Gotcha. No problem, you know. And listen, 752 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,220 can you learn all these songs by tomorrow? And, yeah, yeah. And 753 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,640 we have number charts. Can you do that? Gotcha? Yeah, I'm good 754 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:39,380 to go. I was ready to do it now. It's a little bit more common. 755 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,600 We know drummers who grew up with laptops and playing the 756 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,780 clicks and yeah and all that stuff. But that was not common. 757 00:42:47,500 --> 00:42:50,380 Now I'm in a place where I'm trying to learn how to play 758 00:42:50,380 --> 00:42:51,220 without clicks. 759 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,060 It's just, it's part of our thing. It's so crazy. Yeah, 760 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,700 going back to that. So is that really happening? 761 00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,500 They're actually going away from clicks. 762 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,640 No, no, no. I'm just saying, personally, like, I probably 763 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,280 more comfortable with a click than without, which it was 764 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,720 really funny that after 25 years of it, yeah, yeah, yeah, you and 765 00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:13,380 you do a lot of times, you're just doing gigs, you're doing 766 00:43:13,380 --> 00:43:16,260 playing songs on the fly, and it's like, there's no click, 767 00:43:16,260 --> 00:43:19,200 there's this, like, with, think of the chorus, you know, like, 768 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,560 big counting off, Big Band tunes. Think of the shout 769 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,580 chorus, think of the melody and like, get your tempo from there. 770 00:43:25,580 --> 00:43:29,300 That's how I played every gig, whether it was the big band, the 771 00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:32,780 Brazilian, the rock band, yeah, it's like, there was no 772 00:43:32,780 --> 00:43:35,480 reference. There was we could have played it too fast. Could 773 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,760 have played it too slow. Could have been different from night 774 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,600 to night only. But we, when we listen to our heroes and our 775 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,720 band, the bands that we love, were like, yeah, there was no 776 00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:46,240 click on that, but it sounds so good. 777 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:48,760 New York, New York, one, 778 00:43:48,820 --> 00:43:52,300 two. You know, you get the feel for it, yeah, yes. Here you go. 779 00:43:52,300 --> 00:43:55,180 Like, what's the template? Nobody has time for that. Some 780 00:43:55,180 --> 00:43:55,960 of those tributes. 781 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,240 I mean, Nashville has more tribute bands between, you know, 782 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,400 Tyson Leslie and Brian Russell Collins and all the, you know, 783 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,680 the Nashville drummer jam stuff. He's like, Okay, we're gonna, 784 00:44:04,740 --> 00:44:11,340 we're doing a Van Halen night. So it's like, one two, it's 785 00:44:11,340 --> 00:44:13,860 just, so it's, but I'll usually bring a little light, and all 786 00:44:13,860 --> 00:44:19,140 goes red, green, red, green, off one two. So these are, there's a 787 00:44:19,140 --> 00:44:21,920 reference from something. And then halfway through, I'm on the 788 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:27,620 belting thing on red, gray and red, green, you're checking 789 00:44:27,620 --> 00:44:29,960 yourself. Always check myself. Halfway 790 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:31,040 through, I don't 791 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,320 think Alex did, Alex. Alex did not. Sammy Hagar, when he was 792 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,780 here, I was there, too rich. 793 00:44:38,780 --> 00:44:41,800 You were somewhere, and I, I was going to invite you to come 794 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,680 along, because tickets weren't that expensive, yeah, but it was 795 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,740 the second night that Aronoff filled in. Yeah, nice. Just 796 00:44:47,740 --> 00:44:50,140 hearing him play, you know, I just knew he was running a 797 00:44:50,140 --> 00:44:52,780 click. And there was a couple songs when they're like, oh, it 798 00:44:52,780 --> 00:44:56,680 needs to be faster, and he's, this is the reference, but I 799 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,060 felt for him, and I'm 800 00:44:58,060 --> 00:45:01,200 like, oh, there was a couple little. He had a little, like, a 801 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:02,340 rhythm watch or something. 802 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,520 I don't know exactly what he had, but he had stuff running, 803 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:06,720 and he had his iPad with 804 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:10,620 dude. Had to learn a two hour set over 24 hours, yeah? But if 805 00:45:10,620 --> 00:45:14,820 anybody can do it, I mean, it's Yeah, so deep into the pool, you 806 00:45:14,820 --> 00:45:18,960 know? Yeah. Circling back to to, sorry, I'm used to hosting. This 807 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,580 is great. It's not so much easier being a guest. No, you 808 00:45:22,580 --> 00:45:25,280 don't think so? No, well, I love being a guest because I 809 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,860 like being No, hey, this is fun. I like being a guest. Yeah? 810 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,560 No, no, no. I mean, it's, it's, that's, that's an interesting 811 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,080 concept. I mean, we could talk about that later we get to the I 812 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,560 mean, also your, your your interview style is, it's, I'm 813 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,740 not going to call it buttoned up, because you're not a 814 00:45:41,740 --> 00:45:46,360 buttoned up guy, but it's, it's more in the Actors Studio, it's 815 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,880 very like, you have, it just seems like there's certain 816 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,880 things you want to hit, and you're very well communicated, 817 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,420 very eloquent, and you're hitting those things, and 818 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,000 they're, they're more of like, this is more of, like, a wacky 819 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,320 radio show where yours is, like, these are time capsules that are 820 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,260 people are going to be like, oh, like, refer to working drummers 821 00:46:04,260 --> 00:46:08,340 podcast episode 497, that are in these archives, because you've 822 00:46:08,340 --> 00:46:12,180 captured these things, and they're very informative. And 823 00:46:12,180 --> 00:46:15,000 not that we're not informative, but we just do it in a wackier 824 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:15,600 way. No, I 825 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,840 get that, and I think it changes from guest to guest. 826 00:46:19,140 --> 00:46:23,180 You think we're wacky? I don't think we're wacky. We're just 827 00:46:23,180 --> 00:46:25,220 conversational, inept descriptor, 828 00:46:25,220 --> 00:46:29,840 but his show is very it is it's it has wacky 829 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,140 moments. It depends. Yeah, sometimes when Rich is on, it 830 00:46:33,140 --> 00:46:34,760 can get a little wacky. 831 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,500 Well, I'm lucky you had me on two times. 832 00:46:37,940 --> 00:46:40,040 We should do it like the both of us. Guess not his 833 00:46:40,100 --> 00:46:43,720 Oh, here you go. I was going to say one of the things that has 834 00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:48,640 been beneficial about doing club gigs like on Broadway is when 835 00:46:49,180 --> 00:46:52,600 the band was out, when the front men had an opportunity to open 836 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,420 up for Alabama, was one of the first few times. And we're 837 00:46:55,420 --> 00:46:59,800 playing this arenas in Texas, and they hadn't thought about 838 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,400 like, wait a minute, they're gonna bring us on this large 839 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,980 stage. We need to have some stuff going. We're not just 840 00:47:04,980 --> 00:47:08,160 gonna walk out there. We're not playing a small venue. Oh. Like, 841 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,820 walk on music. Walk on something that's gonna lead into the first 842 00:47:11,820 --> 00:47:17,700 big song. Kick it. I think it was, was, you know, Lone Star or 843 00:47:17,700 --> 00:47:22,100 something, got to Yeah, and they're like, can you guys do 844 00:47:22,100 --> 00:47:24,800 something? So the three of us, the bass player, guitar player, 845 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,560 and I were like, yeah, no. What if we vamp on this, go back and 846 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,980 forth, back and forth, be like, a four bar jam, and then when I 847 00:47:30,980 --> 00:47:34,220 do this fill, that'd be, of course, we have very limited 848 00:47:34,220 --> 00:47:36,860 sound check time, so we had to kind of like, construct this 849 00:47:36,860 --> 00:47:39,800 really quickly. Like, we'll do this and then that. And like, 850 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,400 let's run it real quick for sound check, and then we'll 851 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,620 just, we'll do that. When the guys came up for sound check and 852 00:47:44,620 --> 00:47:47,440 we showed them what we had, they're like, that's That's 853 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,140 perfect. That's amazing. How'd you guys do that so fast? I 854 00:47:50,140 --> 00:47:54,280 mean, not taking anything away from what these guys have done 855 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,440 in the industry, what they've written, what they've done over 856 00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,420 the years, you know, but between the three of us, we've learned 857 00:48:00,420 --> 00:48:04,500 and played 1000s and 1000s of songs and had to improvise and 858 00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:07,860 had to create on the spot, and that serves you well in those 859 00:48:07,860 --> 00:48:13,320 scenarios in the studio. Another thing. So I just, I just want to 860 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,980 put a button on that whole thing as we're referencing Broadway, 861 00:48:16,980 --> 00:48:21,080 Nashville, and for all the shit that it gets. Yeah, that's fine, 862 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,100 but this is what I've taken from it and just seeing it as an 863 00:48:25,100 --> 00:48:28,940 opportunity for growth. And how do I use those skills and apply 864 00:48:28,940 --> 00:48:30,740 that in other places? 865 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:35,060 Are you finding people to come into town or reticent to play 866 00:48:35,060 --> 00:48:35,420 Broadway? 867 00:48:35,420 --> 00:48:38,360 No, I find people coming to town to think that that is the holy 868 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:39,140 grail, 869 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,960 really? Yeah, that's a highly coveted thing. It 870 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,900 is. But I'm like, guys, that's not the end all. It can be a 871 00:48:46,900 --> 00:48:49,660 source of income. It could be a source but you also see it as a 872 00:48:49,660 --> 00:48:52,720 source of experience. It's like the big band gig that I used to 873 00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:55,900 do every Monday night. We'd walk away with maybe 10, $12 in our 874 00:48:55,900 --> 00:48:59,080 pocket. But the Learn, the experience that I learned from 875 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,020 it, the reading, the pressure. 876 00:49:02,700 --> 00:49:04,140 I couldn't, I couldn't put a price on 877 00:49:04,140 --> 00:49:05,760 it. Yeah, Dallas Jazz Orchestra, 878 00:49:07,620 --> 00:49:12,540 $8 and the collection Jazz Orchestra on the Tuesdays, 879 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,500 $24 and how much would you spend 880 00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:19,440 to get a lesson? Yeah, you know, do 881 00:49:19,620 --> 00:49:22,580 you remember your first time going down Broadway when you got 882 00:49:22,580 --> 00:49:27,620 here, and as a tourist, no, but yeah, just you're prospecting 883 00:49:27,620 --> 00:49:30,440 Nashville, and you were kind of like, you know, these guys were 884 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,540 at a whole different level from where I am. 885 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,800 Yeah, no, it was, I think it was like 1997 right? My girlfriend, 886 00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,560 I were driving down to Pensacola, and we wanted to stop 887 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,980 in Nashville, so we went walk down Broadway, and it was 888 00:49:41,980 --> 00:49:46,420 interesting, you know, but it didn't really blow me away. But 889 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,060 certainly, when I started playing there in the 2000s I 890 00:49:49,060 --> 00:49:53,020 would see other bands and, and, and I think continues to this 891 00:49:53,020 --> 00:49:54,700 day. I mean, it's, I 892 00:49:54,700 --> 00:49:58,000 mean room to room, but I mean the quality of the musicians is, 893 00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,240 yeah, is different. It. But 894 00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:03,240 I mean, very much is different. I mean, I see on the first floor 895 00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:08,460 at kid rocks, sometimes I'm like, Whoa, good, bad, really. I 896 00:50:08,460 --> 00:50:12,480 mean, I hear drummers like playing the shit out of certain 897 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:16,260 journey songs, not necessarily note for note, but like, nice. 898 00:50:16,260 --> 00:50:19,140 That's really good. Yeah, that sounds really Pro. 899 00:50:19,260 --> 00:50:23,180 But coming from Columbus, like my coming from Connecticut, it's 900 00:50:23,180 --> 00:50:25,640 just a different level. I mean, I guess I was, oh yeah, I was a 901 00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:27,980 little tempered from Vegas, because you had a really good 902 00:50:28,100 --> 00:50:31,160 quality musicianship out there as well. But, you know, coming 903 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,800 here, it's like, oh, these guys are good, you know, because, I 904 00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,200 mean, Connecticut, it was like, you know, we had, I surrounded 905 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,980 myself with good players, but they were few and far between. 906 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:46,120 I there was, it's hard for me to answer that in a really concise 907 00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,540 way, because the level of musicianship in Columbus again, 908 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:55,480 so pretty was still so good, but maybe not in the rock world that 909 00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,660 I experienced, but like in in the jazz world, in the Latin 910 00:50:58,660 --> 00:51:01,440 world, in the funk world, yeah, there were guys that used to 911 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,980 play with George Clinton that were in a band that still exists 912 00:51:04,980 --> 00:51:07,860 now in plays like once a week, and there's some of the baddest 913 00:51:07,860 --> 00:51:12,720 ass musicians on the planet. But again, the 914 00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:16,080 machinery doesn't exist in those kind of markets, the places that 915 00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,720 rehearse, the recording studios per capita, the tour bus 916 00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:24,200 companies, yeah, the whole machinery that we have, 917 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,980 the focus of musicianship, doesn't exist in those areas. 918 00:51:27,980 --> 00:51:28,160 And 919 00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,260 like, Connecticut is like, you know, if you have, I lived in 920 00:51:30,260 --> 00:51:33,260 Connecticut, I would probably be in the best, you know, wedding 921 00:51:33,260 --> 00:51:35,960 corporate circuit band in a tri state area. That would be 922 00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:37,100 easier. It would be easier to 923 00:51:37,100 --> 00:51:38,720 rise to the top, yeah. And 924 00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:42,340 you hear that, you hear that. You hear people in other towns 925 00:51:42,340 --> 00:51:44,440 where you're like, man, they're a really good player, but 926 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:48,580 there's just something missing about their touch, about their 927 00:51:48,580 --> 00:51:52,420 approach, about their time, feel totally they're set up to 928 00:51:52,420 --> 00:51:55,480 interact their gear. That is just like, there's just 929 00:51:55,540 --> 00:51:59,020 something it's like, it's like the TP stuck to the bottom of 930 00:51:59,020 --> 00:52:02,340 the shoe, like it looks great. You just got to lose the toilet 931 00:52:02,340 --> 00:52:05,160 paper, this stuff at the bottom of your shoe, your zippers open, 932 00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,920 and you're Yeah, exactly, exactly. The last thing I'll say 933 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,620 about the transition. What inspired me was I was at 934 00:52:10,620 --> 00:52:15,480 Columbus Pro and Kenny arnoff was on tour with Fogarty. And 935 00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,880 he's like, Hey, I got a day off. Could I come in and do a clinic? 936 00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:21,200 So there were, like, literally, six of us sitting there. And one 937 00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,900 of the things he said, and I had the opportunity to tell him this 938 00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:31,100 later, and he was like, I do like three things really good, 939 00:52:31,100 --> 00:52:35,600 and I've been able to make a living at it. So I implore you, 940 00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,660 you can have 10 c minus grooves, or you can have three a plus 941 00:52:38,660 --> 00:52:42,520 grooves. And at that point in my life, I'm juggling all these 942 00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,100 different bands, and I was feeling a little bit of a draw 943 00:52:45,100 --> 00:52:48,340 to Nashville, and I'm like, That's it. That's it. I know 944 00:52:48,340 --> 00:52:51,520 what I want to do. I'm going to be a backbeat drummer, and I'm, 945 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,900 I'm I'm doing this, and I'm not getting rid of the John Riley 946 00:52:55,900 --> 00:52:59,380 books and the things still want to work on that. I want it to be 947 00:52:59,380 --> 00:53:04,560 a part of my personality, but I need to focus on that, because I 948 00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:10,860 want to be a full time player and own a house, yeah, and maybe 949 00:53:10,860 --> 00:53:11,520 have kids. 950 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,860 What did he say the three things were, were they three skill sets 951 00:53:13,860 --> 00:53:15,600 or three beats? I think it 952 00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:19,260 was. He was referencing three, like, grooves, three, not 953 00:53:19,260 --> 00:53:22,340 necessarily three beats, but like, this is, like, if you want 954 00:53:22,340 --> 00:53:28,220 me for you, I'm your dude. Yeah, if you know, I mean, Erskine has 955 00:53:28,220 --> 00:53:31,880 stories of being in the studio and being like, I don't think 956 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,300 I'm your guy for this track. I can, I can, you know, suggest 957 00:53:35,300 --> 00:53:41,920 somebody. And we think of these players as just like, right? 958 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:47,140 Everything, yeah. But that was another eye opening experience 959 00:53:47,140 --> 00:53:51,100 in a time when information was limited, yeah? So 960 00:53:51,100 --> 00:53:54,640 he, in a sense, is telling you, chop at one tree. Don't chop at 961 00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,700 multiple Yeah? Because you'll, you'll go, after a while, you'll 962 00:53:57,700 --> 00:53:59,800 have a forest of on, you know, half chopped trees. 963 00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,420 And I was cool with that, because, um, specializing 964 00:54:03,420 --> 00:54:07,020 something I wanted to I was okay with being specific. Yeah, yeah. 965 00:54:07,020 --> 00:54:07,080 I 966 00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,780 think that's, it's wonderful to hear that even, you know, like, 967 00:54:09,780 --> 00:54:11,880 Kenny will throw it out, there's like, Hey, I got a day off. I'd 968 00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,760 rather do a clinic for six people than not do because I 969 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,520 have, I've had those where you do, you make a booking last 970 00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,540 minute, you commit to it, and there's like, four people in the 971 00:54:20,540 --> 00:54:23,000 room, and you just do it anyways, and you're just like, 972 00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,580 well, I'm working my craft. I'm, you know, continuing my skill. 973 00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:29,180 I'm making a difference in people's lives. I always love 974 00:54:29,180 --> 00:54:31,760 that about him, and he's still that way, you know, which is, 975 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,760 which is fantastic. What is your gear, man, do you have your 976 00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:36,200 alliances, your gear? Before 977 00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,260 we go that? Let me just ask real quick and just to there was one 978 00:54:39,260 --> 00:54:42,400 thing that kind of to your point that you made earlier. I get 979 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,640 what he's saying, but I think there's a lot of you still have 980 00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,180 to put air in the tank, right? You still need fuel. Cash is 981 00:54:49,180 --> 00:54:52,360 oxygen for any business, for anybody moving down here, you 982 00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,120 are starting a business, whether you like it or not, which means 983 00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,360 you have to have some magnitude of business acumen, definitely a 984 00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,620 good sales approach, that. What I think made you rich is that 985 00:55:01,620 --> 00:55:03,720 you understood all that. You knew you were somewhat of a 986 00:55:03,720 --> 00:55:06,780 master salesman. You could back it up. You had, you know, you 987 00:55:06,780 --> 00:55:10,020 didn't have the clout yet. You only had the clout coming from 988 00:55:10,020 --> 00:55:12,660 Dallas and what you did, but you certainly had the education, but 989 00:55:12,660 --> 00:55:15,420 you had business, you know, you had a salesmanship to you, you 990 00:55:15,420 --> 00:55:17,880 know what I mean, and that made a big difference. So a lot of 991 00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,480 these people that are coming in, yeah, you got to do a lot of 992 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:25,040 stuff. You gotta spread yourself thin, you know, right? It's, 993 00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,740 it's like in the business world, like, what, even what we're 994 00:55:27,740 --> 00:55:30,920 doing here, we're doing everything from podcasts to 995 00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:34,520 lighting for, you know, car washes to video walls. Now we're 996 00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,880 kind of getting into other spaces. We're in garage doors. 997 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,020 We're doing everything just to sustain. You're the art of the 998 00:55:41,020 --> 00:55:44,380 Renaissance, but you have to, yeah, you know, there's until 999 00:55:44,380 --> 00:55:47,260 the one it's like, how many bands did you play in one year 1000 00:55:47,260 --> 00:55:49,060 that didn't have a scheduling clock? 2929 1001 00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,440 bands. What year was that? 1999 right? 1002 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,640 You remember the year you were playing the lottery? Totally 1003 00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:02,580 playing, right? 27 of those acts do not exist anymore, 1004 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,180 but you still had this. You know, you can't win if you don't 1005 00:56:06,180 --> 00:56:06,600 play two. 1006 00:56:06,660 --> 00:56:11,880 Two remained, Jason Aldean and Connecticut white bread. Big 1007 00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:16,080 Kenny was rush, low one of the bands, no, in 99 No, I hooked up 1008 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:17,460 with him in later. 2001 1009 00:56:18,540 --> 00:56:21,920 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy, I mean, and 1010 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,500 there was a lot of different personalities come down and 1011 00:56:24,500 --> 00:56:27,320 again, like, like, meeting you. And it's like, there's so much 1012 00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,400 more than just because I just want to spend I just want to 1013 00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:35,360 hole up in my practice room, yeah, you know. And it's like, 1014 00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:39,200 no, it's not that you need to get out and see people and meet 1015 00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,400 them and, you know, press the flag. You gotta 1016 00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:46,300 do it. Yeah, networking is such a bad word, but guys, you gotta 1017 00:56:46,300 --> 00:56:46,480 do 1018 00:56:46,780 --> 00:56:49,060 it. Touch grass thing. I thought it was no, 1019 00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:54,400 well, it's, it's, you know, we, we all know our friend, Keo, you 1020 00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,500 know what I mean. It's like, I always refer to because he's 1021 00:56:56,500 --> 00:57:00,160 such a man about town. It's like, if there is a lie norm, 1022 00:57:00,940 --> 00:57:04,620 he's just like, the basement east. He's gonna be there if 1023 00:57:04,620 --> 00:57:07,020 there's something at the exit, and he's gonna be there, he's 1024 00:57:07,020 --> 00:57:09,960 gonna be at the coolest thing. He might have be at multiple 1025 00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,960 things, you know, and, and, and he's smart, you know, he didn't 1026 00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,960 move out to Spring Hill. He's like, he's close by. And if he 1027 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,500 hears about something last minute, he is there, yeah. And 1028 00:57:19,500 --> 00:57:24,680 that's, like, a great business model, and he's because he's 1029 00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:29,720 never out of people's minds. He's always fresh on people's 1030 00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,780 minds, because he is always out supporting the community. 1031 00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:37,400 He is, he is, my workaround is, start a podcast. 1032 00:57:37,460 --> 00:57:41,020 Yeah, I was gonna say that's, that's a good pivot, yeah, 1033 00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:41,920 because 1034 00:57:42,100 --> 00:57:45,220 I have, especially as I get older, I have a hard time 1035 00:57:45,220 --> 00:57:48,340 leaving the house if I, even if I have a gig, I'm like, what 1036 00:57:48,340 --> 00:57:53,620 time is load in? What's my map app say? What is I got five 1037 00:57:53,620 --> 00:57:54,700 minutes before I even have 1038 00:57:54,700 --> 00:57:58,000 to walk out of here, like I'm already in my jammies and my my 1039 00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:01,680 slippers, and you want me to come down and play Mama Tried 1040 00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:10,320 for us $50 in which version. So just just to talk a little bit 1041 00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,020 about Savannah Jack, I remember that they're still together, 1042 00:58:13,020 --> 00:58:13,320 right? 1043 00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:18,480 The singer does maybe a handful of gigs 15 years. That's a you 1044 00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,740 played with him for 15 years, pretty much. I mean, it's it, 1045 00:58:21,740 --> 00:58:25,820 you know, it started as it was Don Ellis Gatlin. He and his 1046 00:58:25,820 --> 00:58:30,260 brother, Don and Daryl Ellis, were on Sony in the 90s. They 1047 00:58:30,260 --> 00:58:33,200 they were the band. They were the duo that famously lost to 1048 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:38,540 Brooks and Dunn every year. Damn amazing singer. It started out, 1049 00:58:38,540 --> 00:58:43,180 you know, doing bar gigs, but then the writing, the singing 1050 00:58:43,180 --> 00:58:46,060 between the three guys, they were kind of like the rascal 1051 00:58:46,060 --> 00:58:50,500 flats, and I was the Jim Riley of the band. I wasn't in the 1052 00:58:50,500 --> 00:58:54,100 band, but I was the drummer for the four piece. Yeah, that 1053 00:58:54,100 --> 00:58:57,520 eventually became a five piece. So it just one. Was one of those 1054 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:02,460 groups that we were doing gigs, you know, opening up for the 1055 00:59:02,460 --> 00:59:08,340 Doobie Brothers and Vince Gill. So many amazing opportunities. 1056 00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,600 Honky Tonk state fairs kind of a thing. All 1057 00:59:12,660 --> 00:59:16,200 everything these guys love to play casinos. Would would, yeah, 1058 00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,380 would travel and then would work with an agency that would put us 1059 00:59:19,380 --> 00:59:23,960 on and off cruise ships as the artists, the featured artists, 1060 00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:28,220 so we weren't contracted. We'd jump on these ships. We'd 1061 00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:32,060 perform as a band, yeah, you know, the 45 in the main 1062 00:59:32,060 --> 00:59:34,520 theater. People were like, did you bring charts for our event? 1063 00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:38,120 No, no, we're self contained. Yeah. We were the only ones out 1064 00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:41,980 there doing it. So got to travel all through the Caribbean, you 1065 00:59:41,980 --> 00:59:46,720 know, the Italy, different things like that. So I probably 1066 00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:50,380 stayed on a little bit too long, because when you're in that 1067 00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:54,280 close knit of a group, I don't know if you know this, yeah, if 1068 00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,220 you've ever been in a band for really a long time, but let me 1069 00:59:57,220 --> 01:00:02,280 tell you. It's like when your parents split up, and you 1070 01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,720 actually become closer with your father after he moves out. You 1071 01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:08,760 know, I still keep in touch with it. So many amazing 1072 01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:12,480 opportunities. I can tell you one thing, I wasn't because I 1073 01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,540 wasn't technically a member. They wanted for their first 1074 01:00:15,540 --> 01:00:21,260 studio album to be like John Jorgensen on guitar, yeah, David 1075 01:00:21,260 --> 01:00:25,580 Santos on on bass, who the singer knew really well. You 1076 01:00:25,580 --> 01:00:29,120 know who we would love to have play drums, Steve Ferroni. I'm 1077 01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:32,300 best friends with Steve Roney. Let's get him so at Blackbird, 1078 01:00:32,900 --> 01:00:37,700 there's John David. Steve Ferroni, I was let me tech, let 1079 01:00:37,700 --> 01:00:40,660 me, yeah. Oh, and we want you to play percussion. Oh, thank you. 1080 01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:44,680 Great. Hey, because I didn't feel like I needed an 1081 01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,560 explanation of why they got Steve Ferroni to play drums on 1082 01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,620 this as we know many of our friends who played in touring 1083 01:00:50,620 --> 01:00:54,400 bands, who you know, Chad Crowell was the drummer, or 1084 01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:59,500 whoever was the drummer on the record, the record, because the 1085 01:00:59,500 --> 01:01:04,800 goal was to get on the radio, and if it was Keith Urban 1086 01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:10,320 Savannah, Jack, Jason Aldean, we had to compete. We had to sound 1087 01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,920 sound just as good as you guys. Yeah, on the radio. So I'm like, 1088 01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,800 no, no, it's good. The more success that you have, the 1089 01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:21,140 better it is for all of us, including me. So that was great, 1090 01:01:21,140 --> 01:01:27,260 great connection with Steve, and incredible experience. And then 1091 01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,740 the second record we did, I was on it still got John Jorgensen, 1092 01:01:30,740 --> 01:01:34,040 and I'm really proud of that, nice and proud. But you know, 1093 01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:37,760 the band went through enough compromises and had its moment 1094 01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:42,940 on a label, got, I think, number 40 on the charts with a song 1095 01:01:42,940 --> 01:01:43,540 with a head 1096 01:01:43,660 --> 01:01:46,180 top 40. I mean, Casey, Casey would be like, Hey, this is 1097 01:01:46,180 --> 01:01:47,800 great, right, right, great 1098 01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:52,780 experience. But it came to it came to a close for me and and 1099 01:01:52,780 --> 01:01:56,980 my family needed more attention, and it's not like I was moving 1100 01:01:56,980 --> 01:01:59,500 back to the middle of nowhere. Yeah, it's moving back to Music 1101 01:01:59,500 --> 01:02:02,760 City, yeah. And people were waiting for me, and it took 1102 01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,300 about a year to get back up to speed, and then I was rolling 1103 01:02:06,300 --> 01:02:09,480 again, yeah, and the front men hit, and I'm like, I've already 1104 01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,660 been here. I'm missing out. Yeah, I wanna, I gotta, you 1105 01:02:12,660 --> 01:02:13,200 know, it's 1106 01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:16,500 the it's that classic, you know, are you a road musician or a 1107 01:02:16,500 --> 01:02:20,360 studio musician? And that was a big deal in 1997 now the lines 1108 01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,540 are just blurred. I mean, I'm sure guys that you know, like, I 1109 01:02:23,540 --> 01:02:26,840 just, I don't hear about Steve Brewster ever jumping on a bus. 1110 01:02:27,620 --> 01:02:30,620 But for me, it's like the phone rings, if it makes sense. I 1111 01:02:30,620 --> 01:02:32,120 just, I just go, do you know 1112 01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:36,560 what I was interviewing? Michael Grando, yeah. And he goes, I 1113 01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,560 love them. People are like, Oh, I only do live or only do studio 1114 01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:42,700 goes, we're all studio musicians. Yes, if you get a 1115 01:02:42,700 --> 01:02:45,280 call for a session, are you turning it down? No, you're not. 1116 01:02:45,580 --> 01:02:46,000 What's 1117 01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,880 so, what's your your setup? Are you advertising? I always ask 1118 01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,520 all the because, you know it's, are you do advertising? Your 1119 01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,680 wears on sound better and air gigs and all that. 1120 01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:59,740 Yeah, I have and air gigs has worked out, okay, uh, it's, it's 1121 01:02:59,740 --> 01:03:06,720 become so competitive and over saturated that it really what 1122 01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:10,200 we've seen as the industry has changed and home studios are 1123 01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:14,760 growing. It's almost like the same way you get live work, you 1124 01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:19,920 build it upon relationships and to do a single song for a 1125 01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:23,900 songwriter overseas, or whatever is cool, but to establish a 1126 01:03:23,900 --> 01:03:26,360 relationship with a songwriter that wants to use you 1127 01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:32,600 constantly, or producer that has a stable of clients that I feel 1128 01:03:32,660 --> 01:03:36,620 makes it profitable, yeah, to do that because we all wanted to do 1129 01:03:36,620 --> 01:03:41,140 home studios, COVID hit, we all upped the ante. Yeah, took our, 1130 01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:45,700 you know, our money, whatever help we got from music cares or 1131 01:03:45,700 --> 01:03:48,640 whoever, and bought a new interface and did all that 1132 01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:52,600 stuff. Yeah, I should have done that, but still, it's like, Man, 1133 01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:56,500 that's a lot of work to do this one song. I should be charging 1134 01:03:56,500 --> 01:03:59,920 more. How much do I charge? You know, it's this constant. And I 1135 01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:04,620 just played for two hours and got so much more than that. So 1136 01:04:04,620 --> 01:04:06,540 it's a constant battle. Yeah, 1137 01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,740 hamburger and steak. I'm sorry, hamburger and steak. Yeah, 1138 01:04:10,740 --> 01:04:15,240 yeah, and but, but it's, it's, it's, it's a, I'd say it's about 1139 01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:19,920 30% of what I do now, yeah, where I know we have friends 1140 01:04:19,980 --> 01:04:25,280 that it's probably more like 70 or 80% of of what they do. But 1141 01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:27,620 we always, and we talk about this a lot on the podcast. We 1142 01:04:27,620 --> 01:04:31,100 have a lot of people that are doing it more full time, and 1143 01:04:31,100 --> 01:04:34,580 it's trying to streamline the work. Time is money, yeah. So 1144 01:04:34,580 --> 01:04:38,300 how do you manage that in such a way that doing that one track 1145 01:04:39,020 --> 01:04:42,160 goes by, templates, file management, all that, all 1146 01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:45,160 those things. Because when you go to a session where you're 1147 01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:49,180 hired as the drummer at a studio with an engineer, guys, we're 1148 01:04:49,180 --> 01:04:54,100 good, moving on. Okay, to do one more good. All right, moving on. 1149 01:04:54,100 --> 01:04:57,460 Moving on. I love that. And then you're like, you're home by 1150 01:04:57,460 --> 01:05:01,140 three, and you're like, Man, I just did a record. Yeah, and 1151 01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:03,720 maybe in a year I'll see it or hear it where, when you're at 1152 01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:07,440 home, you're like, Yeah, I got the file. Okay, put it in here. 1153 01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,160 I've got my template, but still, listen to it. Did you have a no 1154 01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:14,160 chart? Okay, I'll write my own chart. And then Mike's, where 1155 01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:16,440 was that my I use that mic for another thing. Okay? I gotta 1156 01:05:16,620 --> 01:05:21,200 engineer. Then I got tuned. I gotta be more than drummer doing 1157 01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:24,200 everything you're doing everything. And so then here's 1158 01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:25,100 your 100 bucks, 1159 01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:30,020 yeah, when you're charging the same as if you were in a so 1160 01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:33,620 yeah, every year I've given myself a little bit of a raise, 1161 01:05:33,620 --> 01:05:39,260 yes, and then establish those relationships with the producers 1162 01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:44,200 that I spoke with Ken Coomer, yeah, not that long ago. So 1163 01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:48,100 Jim, we're gonna have Ken on the show. He is the original drummer 1164 01:05:48,100 --> 01:05:52,720 with Wilco, and now he just produces crazy, mad numbers of 1165 01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:53,080 records, 1166 01:05:53,140 --> 01:05:56,560 yeah, yeah. We played them on the radio back in the day, yeah. 1167 01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:57,280 And, 1168 01:05:59,380 --> 01:06:04,380 um, Ken Coomer, you were talking to Ken about, probably, about 1169 01:06:04,380 --> 01:06:07,860 recording himself, right? Yeah, because I listened to the 1170 01:06:07,860 --> 01:06:09,780 interview, it was, yeah, yeah. 1171 01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:11,760 I think it's 1172 01:06:13,260 --> 01:06:14,700 like, 1173 01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:18,120 Ken, why would we be talking about you, just because you're 1174 01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:21,980 amazing. I mean, I love Wilco and we love the fact you become 1175 01:06:21,980 --> 01:06:24,440 an amazing producer and, 1176 01:06:25,100 --> 01:06:28,640 well, it's just, it's all about just, kind of just managing that 1177 01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:32,300 time, oh, just doing one song at a time for somebody just doesn't 1178 01:06:32,300 --> 01:06:34,940 work out. But having having those relationships with people 1179 01:06:34,940 --> 01:06:37,520 just really kind of, again, it's like having a little bit of 1180 01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:39,620 this, a little bit of that, so then all of a sudden, that 1181 01:06:39,620 --> 01:06:42,520 person's out of the business or leaving. You're like, okay, no, 1182 01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:45,340 I'm still good, yeah, so because it's, it's creating a certain 1183 01:06:45,340 --> 01:06:47,920 amount of security, because we have those friends that have 1184 01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,760 gigs, and it's like, man, if that artist is like, Guys, I'm 1185 01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:52,120 done. 1186 01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:56,020 Yeah, you have a very radio esque intro. Oh, thank you. The 1187 01:06:56,020 --> 01:06:58,420 Working drummer podcast, 1188 01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:04,500 I can tell you that we've had a couple people do our intro. Nick 1189 01:07:04,500 --> 01:07:08,040 graffini Did our intro for a while. Resource, a good friend 1190 01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,520 of mine who was in broadcasting, and then a few years ago, 1191 01:07:13,980 --> 01:07:17,640 gosh, oh, the dude from Atlanta, the voiceover guy, 1192 01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:24,260 Jack White. Jack White, the drummer ragas his soul, who just 1193 01:07:24,260 --> 01:07:25,280 passed away. He was, 1194 01:07:25,340 --> 01:07:28,460 uh, Rick Springfield's original drummer. Oh, yeah. He battled 1195 01:07:28,460 --> 01:07:32,600 for 10 cancer for 10 years. Gosh, he was married to Peggy 1196 01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:33,080 Bundy. 1197 01:07:33,620 --> 01:07:38,120 Oh, really, yeah. So he's the voice of our intro, and it's 1198 01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:39,080 just an honor to have him. 1199 01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:43,720 I didn't know that because it I can hear it now. Yeah, yeah, 1200 01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:47,200 we had to speed it up a little bit. But I'm so honored to have 1201 01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:48,340 him. That's amazing. 1202 01:07:48,700 --> 01:07:50,440 We miss you, buddy. Okay, yeah. 1203 01:07:52,300 --> 01:07:56,380 So very timely. We're celebrating 500 episodes of your 1204 01:07:56,380 --> 01:07:59,800 podcast. Working drummer. You started it in 2015 you've had 1205 01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,000 everyone, I mean, the big dogs, you know, your Chad wackermans, 1206 01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:07,380 John Robinsons, Steve Smith, Joel Rothman, Cindy. I want to 1207 01:08:07,380 --> 01:08:10,920 hear about Joel Kenny, Nick Bucha Cindy Blackman, but you 1208 01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:14,040 also get guys that are, you know, doing touring productions 1209 01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:19,440 off of Broadway or, you know, New York cats, European cats. So 1210 01:08:19,440 --> 01:08:20,780 tell us. Tell us about the podcast. 1211 01:08:21,319 --> 01:08:25,219 So I have to show you all this while you're doing the camera. 1212 01:08:25,219 --> 01:08:28,159 This is title Warner. I think I have some extra ones, but I 1213 01:08:28,279 --> 01:08:30,799 couldn't find them, so this has been stuck on my fridge. On the 1214 01:08:30,799 --> 01:08:36,379 side, it's probably got grease stains on it. More than 65 1215 01:08:36,859 --> 01:08:41,859 episodes available. Working drummer. Podcast is the resource 1216 01:08:41,859 --> 01:08:44,679 for education, entertainment and beyond one episode and you'll be 1217 01:08:44,679 --> 01:08:49,179 hooked. Rich Redmond, Jason Aldean, sessions and clinic, you 1218 01:08:49,179 --> 01:08:53,379 offered a quote for me that was, I was ever one of your first 1219 01:08:53,379 --> 01:08:57,039 guests. You were one of my first guests. But this we were going 1220 01:08:57,039 --> 01:08:59,739 to summer Nam or winter Nam, or something like that, and I 1221 01:08:59,739 --> 01:09:03,779 wanted something to hand out. And this is, like, 2016 this 1222 01:09:03,779 --> 01:09:06,599 came out, and it's been sitting there. And I've got a, you know, 1223 01:09:06,599 --> 01:09:10,439 an iTunes review, got our, you know, all that stuff, more than 1224 01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:12,119 65 episodes 1225 01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:13,380 available. Amazing. 1226 01:09:13,380 --> 01:09:15,720 You know, that's, that's a big milestone. 50 is a milestone, 1227 01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:17,760 because a lot of people will hit 20, and they'll 1228 01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:20,040 be like, This is work. How good? 1229 01:09:20,100 --> 01:09:23,000 Yeah. So, this is, you know, back in the days when when 1230 01:09:23,060 --> 01:09:25,940 podcasts were rare, if you don't have a podcast, you're in the 1231 01:09:25,940 --> 01:09:30,680 minority, I know. But at midnight, Episode 500 posted 1232 01:09:31,220 --> 01:09:34,640 last night, nice. So when you called, I was like, this is 1233 01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,400 going to be good timing. I've taken a little bit of time off 1234 01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,420 for the holidays. Amazing timing. Very excited about it. 1235 01:09:40,420 --> 01:09:45,640 We did not do anything big this time around. The podcast for my 1236 01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:49,960 co host Zach Alberta and I has been again, a piece of the 1237 01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:54,100 puzzle of what we do. He is a full time touring musician, 1238 01:09:54,100 --> 01:09:57,520 drummer that does musicals. He's out now with the touring company 1239 01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:01,860 of and Juliet. He's. He did the ink too proud to beg, proud to 1240 01:10:01,860 --> 01:10:06,900 beg. That was 16 months of his life. And amazing player, uh, 1241 01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:09,780 Atlanta, cat, right? Atlanta, originally from, well, 1242 01:10:09,780 --> 01:10:12,900 originally from New Mexico, studied in Kansas, lived in LA 1243 01:10:12,900 --> 01:10:16,500 for five years. When we first met, he was moving, I thought, 1244 01:10:16,500 --> 01:10:19,080 Oh, great, off like a West Coast guy, and he goes, Oh, and I'm 1245 01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,500 moving to Atlanta. I was like, Oh man, how's that gonna work? 1246 01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:28,400 But really, after I did this the first year, he joined and met 1247 01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:33,860 him through Nick Ruffini, yeah, and just a great fit, yeah, 1248 01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:37,400 just, I couldn't ask for a better partner. Just that 1249 01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:41,560 perfect yin yang. He jokes that he's the party of no, I'm the 1250 01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:43,840 party of Yes. I'm like, we should do this. We should do 1251 01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:47,380 that. He's like, Whoa, how about we do this instead? I'm like, 1252 01:10:47,380 --> 01:10:50,440 Oh, that's a good idea. It seems like he gets more jazzers. He 1253 01:10:50,440 --> 01:10:54,220 does. And I feel like we don't necessarily pick a lane, but I 1254 01:10:54,220 --> 01:10:57,640 think it's more organic, because now he's in the musical world, 1255 01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:00,600 he'll pull from that. I'm in Nashville. I can pull from that, 1256 01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:04,980 but we try and not pigeon hole ourselves. Yeah, but I had the 1257 01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:09,000 lead on wel once, and I was like, and I'd met we call a few 1258 01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:13,500 times, and I thought, Zach. I went, can you do this? Would you 1259 01:11:13,500 --> 01:11:16,500 mind? I'd feel much more comfortable if you did it. You 1260 01:11:16,500 --> 01:11:19,200 guys can get into the weeds with the short amount of time that he 1261 01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:23,360 may be available. We've tagged team a few times, but again, I 1262 01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:27,140 feel so blessed that not only can we create a consistent 1263 01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:32,120 episode every week based on splitting the workload, but also 1264 01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:39,500 we're on the same page as far as remaining true to the brand, if 1265 01:11:39,500 --> 01:11:43,540 you will, of showcasing the in the trenches drummers, the 1266 01:11:43,540 --> 01:11:47,620 lesser known names, but still impressive body of work. Yes, 1267 01:11:47,860 --> 01:11:52,000 something that we can all take away from, it's nice to have we 1268 01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:55,360 call on. It's nice to have Todd Superman on. But within those 1269 01:11:55,360 --> 01:12:00,120 conversations, what can I extrapolate that is relatable to 1270 01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:03,900 somebody that just maybe is playing on Broadway in 1271 01:12:03,900 --> 01:12:08,460 Nashville, or is playing a weekend gig, or maybe at their 1272 01:12:08,460 --> 01:12:13,500 church or whatever, to engage those listeners, those that are 1273 01:12:13,500 --> 01:12:18,180 curious to even the non drummer, yeah, you know, so really 1274 01:12:18,180 --> 01:12:21,620 casual. I love that you know you're saying, you know, 1275 01:12:21,620 --> 01:12:26,420 describe our conversation as that, but you know it would try 1276 01:12:26,420 --> 01:12:30,260 and Zach prepares differently than I do. I think I over 1277 01:12:30,260 --> 01:12:38,060 prepare. Got my outline just in case, because I might have a 1278 01:12:38,060 --> 01:12:42,940 guest that is short with their answers, and I may have to lead 1279 01:12:42,940 --> 01:12:46,060 the charge. I may have guessed that I don't get a word in 1280 01:12:46,060 --> 01:12:51,520 edgewise, but over time, I've learned to edit in the moment. 1281 01:12:51,700 --> 01:12:55,120 In other words, I think we're done with this topic. Yeah, time 1282 01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:57,880 to move on. I call it passing exit ramps. 1283 01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:02,640 It's a skill set, this, this, this hosting thing, yep, is a 1284 01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:06,060 thinking on your feet thing, and it's so good. Some people love 1285 01:13:06,060 --> 01:13:09,180 Sudoku. Some do crossword puzzles. This is how Jim and I 1286 01:13:09,180 --> 01:13:12,480 keep our brain sharp, because you really have to jib and jab 1287 01:13:12,480 --> 01:13:16,020 and think in the moment and and we had to get our sea legs 1288 01:13:16,440 --> 01:13:20,100 together. As far as having two people that could give and 1289 01:13:20,100 --> 01:13:22,640 take, well, it helps that you had somebody who worked in the 1290 01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:23,120 business. No, 1291 01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:27,140 totally. Jim's a great coach, and then I'm a I'm a good 1292 01:13:27,140 --> 01:13:30,080 student, and I'm sure you are in the sense that I always go back 1293 01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:32,780 and listen to an episode, maybe two times, maybe one for 1294 01:13:32,780 --> 01:13:35,900 enjoyment, and then one for how can I improve my hosting skills? 1295 01:13:35,900 --> 01:13:40,280 And do I need to remove anything or edit anything on behalf of 1296 01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:40,760 the guest? 1297 01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:43,060 Well, Matt, you do that, right? You probably listen to it two or 1298 01:13:43,060 --> 01:13:44,860 three times before you release. Well, 1299 01:13:44,860 --> 01:13:47,920 I go through and edit and over time, and, you know, probably 1300 01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:51,820 not two times, but, but it does give me an opportunity to hear 1301 01:13:51,820 --> 01:13:57,100 when I am maybe not allowing the person to fully, you know, 1302 01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:00,780 finish their point, or other things like that, happens. So I 1303 01:14:00,780 --> 01:14:04,320 think there's, there's ways that definitely I again, it is a 1304 01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:09,420 skill set that I feel like has helped me. And consider it's 1305 01:14:09,420 --> 01:14:13,920 like, what else can I be doing with this? How else? Because at 1306 01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:18,960 the end of it, I do feel like, man, I've, I've, I feel like I 1307 01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:22,040 just left a gig. Yeah, you know, it feels good. There's a 1308 01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:25,460 lot of there's a lot going on up here, yeah, in the head and the 1309 01:14:25,460 --> 01:14:27,860 heart. So the first thing that comes to mind for me is you 1310 01:14:27,860 --> 01:14:33,680 could be a panel moderator. You can be an event host. You can 1311 01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:36,200 create your own events. I mean, there's now that you have this 1312 01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:39,800 organizational ability, and you know how to cut to the chase and 1313 01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:42,700 keep people engaged, and it's educational, but it's also 1314 01:14:42,700 --> 01:14:44,620 entertaining. It's fantastic. I've 1315 01:14:44,620 --> 01:14:47,080 got, I got a lot of early encouragement, yeah, from 1316 01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:50,680 friends and different people. The very first guest was our 1317 01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:54,040 friend David Black, yeah, you know, I thought I need to start 1318 01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:56,980 off with somebody we're just comfortable with. Comfortable. 1319 01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:00,960 Know him. Great resume, great player. Good. Personality, and 1320 01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:03,360 he was just a great and my friend Mike Jackson helped me 1321 01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:06,420 get started. And he is in the industry, as far as voiceover, 1322 01:15:06,540 --> 01:15:10,440 he's like, so he was able to coach me with that stuff. 1323 01:15:10,440 --> 01:15:10,920 Totally 1324 01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:14,460 now, now what tell us about this Patreon thing? Are we missing 1325 01:15:14,460 --> 01:15:18,120 out? What? What is that? So Patreon talking about 1326 01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:20,900 the monetization of it? I'm kind of curious. Yeah. Have you been 1327 01:15:20,900 --> 01:15:22,700 able to do that? Somewhat? 1328 01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:26,360 It took us a while to get to the point where we could put money 1329 01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:29,840 in our pockets, but to make enough money to keep the lights 1330 01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:35,300 on was our goal. Because for Zach and I, the money we made 1331 01:15:35,300 --> 01:15:40,280 was from for him, teaching and gigs and touring. For me, it was 1332 01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:42,940 playing and touring, recording and all those things. So the 1333 01:15:42,940 --> 01:15:48,220 podcast still needed to be under control so that we continue to 1334 01:15:48,220 --> 01:15:52,300 enjoy it. But after a while, we did. We're doing some 1335 01:15:52,300 --> 01:15:55,960 advertising that helped. But still, you've got the website, 1336 01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:59,320 you've got we're on megaphone now that costs us a little bit 1337 01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:03,840 to subscribe to some of these platforms, if it's gear, we use 1338 01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:04,260 you that 1339 01:16:04,260 --> 01:16:07,080 when you say ad, and were you actually doing ads on the show? 1340 01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:08,760 Yeah, okay. Do you still? Yeah, 1341 01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:10,680 we still do nice so through 1342 01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:16,260 megaphone, which so about three years ago, we joined a network 1343 01:16:16,260 --> 01:16:20,100 called the drum click. And so let's get the big fat five and 1344 01:16:20,100 --> 01:16:23,720 all that big fat five they've recently drumming, drummers on 1345 01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:25,580 drumming, I think is the new name. I 1346 01:16:25,580 --> 01:16:29,420 think Ben is brilliant, because does a great job. He took the 1347 01:16:29,420 --> 01:16:34,100 first several episodes, turned it into a book, yes, 1348 01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:40,780 and we're having him on as a guest, and coming up soon. Chris 1349 01:16:40,780 --> 01:16:44,860 mazzaritzi is from Big Fat snare drum. I love Chris. He had the 1350 01:16:44,860 --> 01:16:48,280 idea to do this like comedians do with podcasts. We'll start a 1351 01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:51,400 network, and we'll, you know, work off each other. So, uh, 1352 01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:54,220 Bart van der Zee drum history, which is an amazing podcast as 1353 01:16:54,220 --> 01:17:01,020 part of that network. Nice and, uh, drum candy with Mike Dawson. 1354 01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:04,920 Mike Dawson, thank you. And so right now, those are the ones 1355 01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:12,060 that are a part of that. And so with with we with megaphone. 1356 01:17:12,420 --> 01:17:16,740 What's megaphone? So megaphone is a distributor that when you, 1357 01:17:17,700 --> 01:17:22,820 when we first started, you had to do all the code on your 1358 01:17:22,820 --> 01:17:26,420 website to get it to upload to iTunes that now there's services 1359 01:17:26,420 --> 01:17:29,840 that you when you just dump your mp three in there, it goes to 1360 01:17:29,900 --> 01:17:34,340 all the aggregates, like Libsyn that we use. Libsyn, okay, that 1361 01:17:34,340 --> 01:17:39,080 type, and I'm trying to think of dynamic advertising is the 1362 01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:42,640 thing. So when you listen to podcasts, and you and you hear a 1363 01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,580 little and all sudden an ad starts because they can see that 1364 01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:48,940 auto audible marker. Or sometimes it could be like Conan 1365 01:17:48,940 --> 01:17:52,060 O'Brien, and it could be in the in the middle of some sounds, 1366 01:17:52,060 --> 01:17:52,660 and it 1367 01:17:52,660 --> 01:17:56,920 goes, drives me up that, like my radio sensibilities are off the 1368 01:17:56,920 --> 01:18:00,360 charts. When it happens, it's like, mid sentence and it cuts 1369 01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:01,560 out. I'm like, why? 1370 01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:05,280 What happened? What that is, what that is is, I know that's 1371 01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:09,420 dynamic ad player, right? So we've got two spots that we you 1372 01:18:09,420 --> 01:18:12,600 program it in. You've got at the beginning of the episode and 1373 01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:15,360 somewhere in the mid roll and somewhere at the end, and each 1374 01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:19,260 one of those spots has a certain value to that you can assign to 1375 01:18:19,260 --> 01:18:23,060 the the advertiser. So getting into the, you know, can you 1376 01:18:23,060 --> 01:18:24,500 actually the donuts here? But 1377 01:18:25,100 --> 01:18:28,160 can you actually assign because, like, when I do a lot of 1378 01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:30,800 podcasting for clients and stuff like that, and I'm just, like, 1379 01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:34,280 if they have an ad, I'm just baking it into the file. At some 1380 01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:38,900 point we got to get to dynamic ads, but in the software I use 1381 01:18:38,900 --> 01:18:42,700 where I'm able to actually designate the time. Okay, stop 1382 01:18:42,700 --> 01:18:45,280 here, and I might have a produced piece that ramps up. 1383 01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:47,800 Hey, we're gonna be right back. Boom, because let the listener 1384 01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:49,960 know you got, you know, you got 30 seconds. I even tell my 1385 01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:52,420 clients, well, they could skip forward. I said, I understand 1386 01:18:52,420 --> 01:18:54,580 that. But what if you were to prep them like, Hey, this is how 1387 01:18:54,580 --> 01:18:57,640 we pay the bills. Just make sure you're listening to these. Some 1388 01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:00,040 of those words from our sponsors. We're gonna be back in 1389 01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:02,940 a few make sure you check them out, give us some love, because 1390 01:19:02,940 --> 01:19:04,860 you know, if you enjoy the podcast, this is how we're 1391 01:19:04,860 --> 01:19:05,400 funding it. 1392 01:19:05,700 --> 01:19:11,040 It's an evolving industry. Yeah, that when we now, everyone 1393 01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:14,760 listens to podcasts, they really do. And as a result, we've 1394 01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:19,020 actually seen our listenership go down, because it's like, 1395 01:19:19,020 --> 01:19:23,960 there's just so much out there. Wow. So we now have tried to 1396 01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:28,100 find new ways to, you know, invigorate that and bring 1397 01:19:28,100 --> 01:19:30,620 attention back to it, because we were the only ones. There were 1398 01:19:30,620 --> 01:19:34,160 very few out there. Very few podcasts, very few drumming 1399 01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:37,940 podcasts. Now there's more of those. Yeah, we're, you know, as 1400 01:19:37,940 --> 01:19:42,100 a result of of of Nick slowing down his output and some other 1401 01:19:42,100 --> 01:19:46,660 people. We're probably the longest running podcast. And, 1402 01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:50,740 you know, again, 500 started. So I also feel like it's still 1403 01:19:50,740 --> 01:19:56,020 super fun. Grow so much from it. It's helped Zach and I on this 1404 01:19:56,020 --> 01:20:00,900 episode 500 talk about, I mean, it's all in. The episode we talk 1405 01:20:00,900 --> 01:20:06,480 about, you know, just how it's it's helped our our careers, 1406 01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:10,800 it's helped our growth as as drummers and as as business 1407 01:20:10,860 --> 01:20:15,120 people and just all these things, and my connections with 1408 01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:18,600 people within the industry, whether it's playing or where 1409 01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:22,700 the retail industry that remains intact, but it's not through 1410 01:20:22,700 --> 01:20:25,700 somebody else's business. It's through mine, yeah. And I say 1411 01:20:25,700 --> 01:20:29,840 mine, Zach, and I Yeah, you know. And so that feels really 1412 01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:31,820 good. I feel like I own something. And one of the 1413 01:20:31,820 --> 01:20:34,820 inspiration for starting this was like, I'm in a band, but I 1414 01:20:34,820 --> 01:20:38,180 have no say in this. And it's like, but I'm not a songwriter. 1415 01:20:38,180 --> 01:20:41,500 How do I I want to create? I want, I want something that's 1416 01:20:41,500 --> 01:20:46,720 mine, and so that was kind of the start of that you 1417 01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:50,440 actually, I mean, looking at your your Instagram page, are 1418 01:20:50,440 --> 01:20:53,140 you guys doing clips from the episodes, like short form 1419 01:20:53,140 --> 01:20:54,160 content, things like that? 1420 01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:58,180 Yeah, not as much as, like some of our young podcaster friends 1421 01:20:58,180 --> 01:21:01,560 that are super tech savvy, Zach and I always checking in with 1422 01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:04,800 each other. It's like, Should we do that? I see this and I see 1423 01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:08,160 that. I'm inspired, but yeah, do we want to? Because 1424 01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:10,800 I'll tell you right now. Like you again, my radio 1425 01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:14,220 sensibilities, yeah, to promote the other shows on the radio 1426 01:21:14,220 --> 01:21:18,480 station. For my years in radios, spent when talk radio always 1427 01:21:18,480 --> 01:21:21,140 running promos, throwing back to the morning show. And hey, 1428 01:21:21,140 --> 01:21:23,840 here's what you could expect coming up on blah, blah, blah. 1429 01:21:24,140 --> 01:21:27,200 That's what those are. You know, getting people a little bit of a 1430 01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:30,440 taste that they may not have found you, it's removing the 1431 01:21:30,440 --> 01:21:32,120 hoops. You know what I mean, well, and 1432 01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:36,020 I just worked on one today for Chad Wackerman. And so getting 1433 01:21:36,020 --> 01:21:42,100 back to doing that, we actually hired Dan ainspan from the 1434 01:21:42,100 --> 01:21:46,840 National drummers podcast to do a bunch of clips for us. So 1435 01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:50,680 again, it's a reminder of what the drumming community is, the 1436 01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:55,540 podcasting community is, and also, like some of the tech 1437 01:21:55,540 --> 01:22:01,140 stuff, that is a necessary evil, but also maintaining and 1438 01:22:01,260 --> 01:22:05,100 managing it in such a way that it remains fun. That's why we're 1439 01:22:05,100 --> 01:22:10,320 at 500 because Zach and I have put some limits on how demanding 1440 01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:15,720 this thing is. Does it remain fun? Does it remain and can it 1441 01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:18,720 pay for itself? Now, in recent years, we've been able to put 1442 01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:21,560 some money back into our pockets, but going back to your 1443 01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:26,960 Patreon, Patreon is, you know, it's crowdfunding at its core, 1444 01:22:27,020 --> 01:22:31,400 yeah, and so there's a lot of different ways to do it, but 1445 01:22:31,400 --> 01:22:36,320 Patreon has grown and it has changed with the industry as 1446 01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:39,560 people are, you know, like, wow, I can do this. I have now, I 1447 01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:42,100 have computer, I have internet. I can create my own business. I 1448 01:22:42,100 --> 01:22:46,180 can create my, you know, it's, it's endless, the opportunities 1449 01:22:46,180 --> 01:22:49,240 to create whatever, yeah, you know. And so Patreon is one of 1450 01:22:49,240 --> 01:22:53,560 those things that has come up as a result of this changing 1451 01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:54,220 industry. And 1452 01:22:54,220 --> 01:22:57,940 that's, it's like, again, going back to how I coach clients in 1453 01:22:57,940 --> 01:23:01,800 the podcast space is, you know, coming up with rate cards and 1454 01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:04,980 stuff like that, and different things that you can do to make 1455 01:23:04,980 --> 01:23:07,920 it affordable for one business versus another, identifying 1456 01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:11,220 those audiences that make sense, because there are a lot of 1457 01:23:11,220 --> 01:23:13,620 people I could do the dynamic ads that are controlled, and 1458 01:23:13,620 --> 01:23:16,440 they'll get a couple of points on it, but at the end of the 1459 01:23:16,440 --> 01:23:20,460 day, it's like, you know, they could start dictating what they 1460 01:23:20,460 --> 01:23:23,000 want you to Talk about, and all that kind of stuff. And it's 1461 01:23:23,480 --> 01:23:27,080 typically not a good place to be with certain kinds of podcasts. 1462 01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:30,140 In this case, you're kind of talking about, you know, you 1463 01:23:30,140 --> 01:23:32,540 know, the kind of identifying the advertisers that make sense 1464 01:23:32,540 --> 01:23:36,380 for a drumming podcast would be what it would be, you know, you 1465 01:23:36,380 --> 01:23:39,800 got national reach so you can, you could appeal to maybe some 1466 01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:44,500 insurance companies, things of that nature, coffee, coffee 1467 01:23:44,500 --> 01:23:49,060 style brands, those fashion brands, you know, yeah, I'm not 1468 01:23:49,060 --> 01:23:50,980 exactly sure if you're gonna have, you know, drum 1469 01:23:50,980 --> 01:23:55,060 manufacturing companies, you know, clamoring for advertising, 1470 01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:58,420 but they are really because they have a they have an advertising 1471 01:23:58,420 --> 01:24:03,600 budget in a print market that was always their MO, right? Is 1472 01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:07,020 going away. So they still have the budget that needs to be used 1473 01:24:07,020 --> 01:24:11,040 somewhere. Yeah? And when you have, like, an in ear company 1474 01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:15,180 that doesn't get a lot of visuals, they need testimonials, 1475 01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:17,640 right? They need that. So a lot of times we're guinea pigs with 1476 01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:22,640 stuff, yeah? Or we're like, we're the beneficiary 1477 01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:25,880 forks will advertise with, I believe, Nashville drummer 1478 01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:26,660 podcast. Yeah, 1479 01:24:26,660 --> 01:24:30,080 they advertise with us for quite some time, but there's, there's 1480 01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:32,960 just so many different ways. And because of the dynamic 1481 01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:36,560 advertising, you can do it by region. Yeah, you can do it by 1482 01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:41,320 the Yeah. So, so JC, reached out to us about the Music City drum 1483 01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:43,840 show. JC, Clifford, yeah, I've actually 1484 01:24:43,900 --> 01:24:46,960 you were there right this past year, yeah? Just talk about 1485 01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:49,780 community, yeah, because I was actually set up with my own 1486 01:24:49,780 --> 01:24:54,220 podcast where you were, you were out of town, yeah? And, you 1487 01:24:54,220 --> 01:24:56,800 know, it's something that we you and I should probably at least 1488 01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:59,020 try and make an effort to be there, get a booth this year, 1489 01:24:59,020 --> 01:25:02,700 possible. Yeah. I talked to JC, and I can't remember the guy's 1490 01:25:02,700 --> 01:25:03,540 name, I'll be home. 1491 01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:07,260 I'll be home for that Sunday, but yeah, we should check on 1492 01:25:07,260 --> 01:25:08,940 getting a booth. We 1493 01:25:08,940 --> 01:25:11,820 can get a booth, and maybe I can just have a presence there, you 1494 01:25:11,820 --> 01:25:17,520 know. But I mean, JC and I, and I the guy who Landon Hall. 1495 01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:23,180 Landon, yes, thank you. Sorry. Landon, yeah, they are talking 1496 01:25:23,180 --> 01:25:26,780 about making, like a podcast row. And I've suggested that. I 1497 01:25:26,780 --> 01:25:30,560 said, you know, get partnered with one of these drum booth 1498 01:25:30,560 --> 01:25:31,520 sponsors. See, 1499 01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:34,820 we were there year one. I was like a can, and we had a couch, 1500 01:25:34,820 --> 01:25:36,680 and we had people sit down. But it's got to 1501 01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:38,120 be hermetically sealed, right? It's, 1502 01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:40,660 I was able to do it, yeah, I was able to, 1503 01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:44,620 we know we were there, but we didn't, we didn't. We weren't 1504 01:25:44,620 --> 01:25:48,520 going to record anything, but we were going to do is we had our 1505 01:25:49,660 --> 01:25:53,980 chiropractic friends that. What's his name? Cheyenne 1506 01:25:53,980 --> 01:25:54,880 Gaffar, yeah, 1507 01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:57,700 he's a great guy. He's been on another podcast that I produce 1508 01:25:57,700 --> 01:25:59,140 sales until so he, 1509 01:25:59,140 --> 01:26:01,380 you know, it's one of those things where we were able to, 1510 01:26:01,380 --> 01:26:04,260 like, bring it's like that was kind of our excuse to be there 1511 01:26:04,500 --> 01:26:08,760 and share this service and build community. And a lot of times we 1512 01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:12,780 do stuff in this industry, we're not really quite sure what the 1513 01:26:12,780 --> 01:26:15,480 end result is. It's not going to be cash in your pocket at the 1514 01:26:15,480 --> 01:26:18,000 end of the day, but it's going to be just a little down the 1515 01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:21,080 line. Yeah, a little bit down the line. And again, it's just 1516 01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:24,920 you gotta constantly be doing things. And so, you know you 1517 01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:29,300 were talking about, like, how do people know who you are? Keogh, 1518 01:26:29,300 --> 01:26:32,300 what a great example. It's like grassroots marketing at its 1519 01:26:32,300 --> 01:26:35,000 finest. When I tell people that I'm an introvert, they're like, 1520 01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:37,700 really, but you do a podcast, I'm like, I know, but that's how 1521 01:26:37,700 --> 01:26:39,740 I that's how I work around I never see 1522 01:26:39,740 --> 01:26:42,200 you as an introvert. Let me tell you this. I was just, I'm sorry. 1523 01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:45,580 I'm sorry. I'm sorry being rude. I was just texting our friend 1524 01:26:45,580 --> 01:26:48,400 Luis esbaya, former guest on the working drummer. He's, you know 1525 01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:53,140 what, and because drummers love Luis and he's just a drummer's 1526 01:26:53,140 --> 01:26:56,740 best friend, great guy. Listen, I'm learning so much. 1527 01:26:56,740 --> 01:27:00,600 Congratulations on 500 episodes. Working drummer.net. Anywhere 1528 01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:03,180 there's podcasts, you can get the working drummers podcast. 1529 01:27:03,420 --> 01:27:08,100 We're gonna do the Fave Five, Fave color, blue. So fast. 1530 01:27:08,100 --> 01:27:10,680 Everybody loves blue. So many drummers. But do you have blue 1531 01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:11,160 drums? 1532 01:27:12,540 --> 01:27:16,800 No, I don't. Now, my first dw, my first pro kit, was a royal 1533 01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:18,060 blue dw, royal 1534 01:27:18,060 --> 01:27:20,160 blue favorite food or dish, 1535 01:27:21,780 --> 01:27:24,500 man, my wife says, anything? Pureed, um, 1536 01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:29,060 pureed, like, like, like, baby food. Okay? Smoothies, yeah, 1537 01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:31,160 like, Joey eating the baby food. Yeah, 1538 01:27:34,220 --> 01:27:36,260 come on in. You're 1539 01:27:36,260 --> 01:27:38,360 up next. Fight. You're up next. Should 1540 01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:40,220 we put him right here? We can sit down. My 1541 01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:44,620 friend. We're doing we're wrapping up. We don't have 1542 01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:47,020 a microphone for you, but something tells me you're low 1543 01:27:47,020 --> 01:27:52,960 enough. Thank God. What's up, buddy? All right, so we're doing 1544 01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:55,120 the Faye five. So yeah, what would be your favorite dish or 1545 01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:58,000 favorite food? Probably eggs. Eggs are the nature's 1546 01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,040 multivitamin. Yeah, I'll have four a 1547 01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:03,780 day. Let me ask you this, though, can you eat for a day? 1548 01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:06,660 For a day, really? Yeah, because they said that it's bad for you. 1549 01:28:06,660 --> 01:28:11,100 No, didn't been debunked, really. So I should eat more 1550 01:28:11,100 --> 01:28:11,640 eggs. Eat 1551 01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:15,240 four eggs in the morning and a whole avocado, and you will be 1552 01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:16,440 crushing this 1553 01:28:16,440 --> 01:28:19,380 paleo I've got tuna fish and canned chicken. 1554 01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:22,340 Jim, oh my God, you're going to be bench pressing 1555 01:28:22,340 --> 01:28:24,380 legs in there. Favorite drink? 1556 01:28:25,700 --> 01:28:26,960 Oh, coffee, 1557 01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:31,220 coffee, yeah. And then this, these last two are so hard, and 1558 01:28:31,220 --> 01:28:34,220 Jim hates me for asking this, but what is your favorite movie 1559 01:28:34,220 --> 01:28:36,080 of the moment or of all time? 1560 01:28:37,940 --> 01:28:38,840 Gosh, 1561 01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:43,000 like this sucker comes on and you're like, sorry, babe, I'm 1562 01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:45,940 gonna be here for two hours, or at the moment. Yeah, it could be 1563 01:28:45,940 --> 01:28:50,260 at the moment, like some people, like, Step Brothers, yeah. Of 1564 01:28:50,260 --> 01:28:52,180 course, some people are, like, JAWS 1565 01:28:52,180 --> 01:28:53,440 fit anywhere that 1566 01:28:53,440 --> 01:28:56,500 I've seen multiple that I will watch every time is probably 1567 01:28:56,500 --> 01:29:00,480 Saving Private Ryan, oh god, yeah. I mean, I cannot not watch 1568 01:29:00,480 --> 01:29:00,720 that 1569 01:29:00,780 --> 01:29:04,200 you get teared up at the end. My dad and I watched 1570 01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:06,780 it together for the first time, and at the end, he was 1571 01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:09,000 like, on the 1572 01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:14,520 football game, what's your favorite song of all time, or 1573 01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:17,940 something you're digging right now? Um, 1574 01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:23,540 what I'm digging right now is Rosanna, yeah. And just trying 1575 01:29:23,540 --> 01:29:28,940 to get back into wrapping my head around that as a huge 1576 01:29:28,940 --> 01:29:34,160 picaro fan and not a toto fan, yeah. Sorry, not sorry. This is 1577 01:29:34,340 --> 01:29:34,580 big. I 1578 01:29:34,580 --> 01:29:37,400 mean, this is, this is controversy in the making. So 1579 01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:41,260 not, you're not a fan of their body of work overall, not, 1580 01:29:41,260 --> 01:29:46,120 not compared to some of our friends that worship the entire 1581 01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:48,640 but what are some bands that you freaking love? Well, I mean, 1582 01:29:48,640 --> 01:29:51,820 grew up listening to Rush and so you know all that. Okay, 1583 01:29:51,820 --> 01:29:53,020 so Jim go, 1584 01:29:53,440 --> 01:29:55,000 what the question? 1585 01:29:55,300 --> 01:29:59,440 The question, so if you had to pick a tribute band for the rest 1586 01:29:59,440 --> 01:30:02,040 of your life? Life. You cannot do anything else. Yeah. What 1587 01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:03,960 tribute is it going to be? Paul McCartney? 1588 01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:04,860 Wow, 1589 01:30:04,920 --> 01:30:06,300 yeah. Paul McCarthy, 1590 01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:12,240 because I get we did a tribute show at third and Linsey, yeah, 1591 01:30:12,420 --> 01:30:15,660 and and at the moment with, with the band Savannah jack, and we 1592 01:30:15,660 --> 01:30:20,100 were playing a ton of McCartney, and we'd go and play Broadway 1593 01:30:20,100 --> 01:30:23,180 and open up with jet and band on the run and stuff like that. 1594 01:30:23,300 --> 01:30:26,660 Everyone over 35 was like, yay. And everybody else was like, 1595 01:30:26,660 --> 01:30:30,500 where are these guys? Yeah, who's this guy? It was so fun to 1596 01:30:30,500 --> 01:30:34,160 not only play Ringo parts and Abe liboreal Junior and try and 1597 01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:36,500 cop what he was doing. I'm like, I could do this for the rest of 1598 01:30:36,500 --> 01:30:40,540 my life. Nice. It's I was in a James Taylor tribute band for a 1599 01:30:40,540 --> 01:30:45,700 minute last year, fire and rain. Yeah, the Kunkel. So who would 1600 01:30:45,700 --> 01:30:46,660 have thought to do that, 1601 01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:51,700 that? That was amazing, because you're covering everybody from, 1602 01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:54,460 you know, Gad 1603 01:30:55,300 --> 01:30:58,000 Carlos Jordan, Carlos Vega. It's, 1604 01:30:58,060 --> 01:31:02,700 it's, I mean, my heroes, literally, my heroes. I think I 1605 01:31:02,940 --> 01:31:06,000 have an aversion towards being in a tribute band, of bands that 1606 01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:09,480 I really, really love, because then I'm like, I would hate this 1607 01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:12,660 by the end of it, you know, seriously, I mean, McCarthy, 1608 01:31:12,660 --> 01:31:16,500 just it's covers so much, from the rock to the, you know, 60s 1609 01:31:16,500 --> 01:31:17,700 rock to all throughout. 1610 01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:20,240 We need more journey tribute bands, really, do 1611 01:31:23,300 --> 01:31:26,960 we being totally sarcastic? Matt, what's the best way for 1612 01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:28,700 people to find you? Do you personally have a.com 1613 01:31:30,260 --> 01:31:30,980 matthewcross.net, 1614 01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:39,620 sorely needs to be updated. But you know, I I think that it's 1615 01:31:39,620 --> 01:31:44,620 hard to say social media is in a weird spot right now. Again, 1616 01:31:44,620 --> 01:31:47,440 that's what I love about the podcast. I've had a lot of 1617 01:31:47,440 --> 01:31:50,380 people reach out to me personally through the podcast, 1618 01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:55,180 as they have Zach too, not just for pod their podcast needs, but 1619 01:31:55,180 --> 01:31:58,000 for drumming and personal and other things like that. So I 1620 01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:01,320 love that. So working drummer.net. Yeah. 1621 01:32:01,560 --> 01:32:05,820 Great, nice. Hey, you are have been a fantastic guest. I mean, 1622 01:32:06,120 --> 01:32:09,780 your your hosting chops are sharp, 500 episodes, but isn't 1623 01:32:09,780 --> 01:32:11,940 it nice? Just let your guard down and just be like, yeah, 1624 01:32:11,940 --> 01:32:14,820 man, it is. Man, I've not unbuttoned this shirt. That's a 1625 01:32:14,820 --> 01:32:16,140 great shirt. Many years that is 1626 01:32:16,140 --> 01:32:19,920 a great western inspired shirt, ladies and gentlemen, that's 1627 01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:23,360 Matthew Kraus, matthewcrows.net, also check out working 1628 01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:27,980 drummer.net you can patronize the site. You could give them a 1629 01:32:27,980 --> 01:32:31,040 little money for their time and their efforts and their talents. 1630 01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:34,940 500 episodes is a major commitment. Congratulations, and 1631 01:32:34,940 --> 01:32:37,340 you're a backbone of the drumming community here. It's 1632 01:32:37,340 --> 01:32:39,740 just a pleasure to know you, and I'm so happy for you, man, thank 1633 01:32:39,740 --> 01:32:42,100 you, man, dude, thanks for being on here. Thanks for being here. 1634 01:32:42,100 --> 01:32:44,320 Yeah, Jim, thank you for your time and talent, buddy. Thank 1635 01:32:44,320 --> 01:32:46,720 you, Jim. You're welcome. Hey. And I do want to say this jacket 1636 01:32:46,720 --> 01:32:49,000 that I'm wearing, everybody knows I'm a sucker for dead 1637 01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:54,160 cows. Very thin dead cows. This is a company called last Wolf. 1638 01:32:54,160 --> 01:32:57,460 And my friend Rob ricotta. He's a drummer. He opened up for us a 1639 01:32:57,460 --> 01:33:01,800 couple years ago with John not John Edwards, uh, John Morgan, 1640 01:33:02,100 --> 01:33:05,400 what's up, John? And he was nice enough to get me this coat from 1641 01:33:05,400 --> 01:33:09,180 this company, and even embossed my initials on the jacket. So I 1642 01:33:09,180 --> 01:33:11,880 just want to say, what's up, Rob, just want to say, what's 1643 01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:16,320 up. Last Wolf, I really like this brown bomber jacket that 1644 01:33:16,320 --> 01:33:20,780 you have, and there's also a brown Cafe Racer jacket that you 1645 01:33:20,780 --> 01:33:24,620 guys have. But, uh, Anyways, guys, hey, there's this company 1646 01:33:24,620 --> 01:33:27,860 called DW. I really like your drums. They sound really good. 1647 01:33:27,860 --> 01:33:30,620 There's just one drum set, and apparently you got the wood from 1648 01:33:30,620 --> 01:33:32,900 Lake Superior. I mean, come out, I don't know. I think they're 1649 01:33:32,900 --> 01:33:36,380 sold out of that gym or whatever happens next. All the doctors 1650 01:33:36,380 --> 01:33:39,140 and the lawyers buy those. The guys that make big time bucks 1651 01:33:39,140 --> 01:33:42,460 buy those kits. Right? Totally. Hey so guys, thank you for 1652 01:33:42,460 --> 01:33:44,980 watching, thanks for supporting the show. Be sure to subscribe, 1653 01:33:44,980 --> 01:33:48,160 share, rate and review. It helps people buy and follow the show 1654 01:33:48,160 --> 01:33:51,940 and buy this. This is my book here, right here, Crash Course, 1655 01:33:51,940 --> 01:33:56,320 success, I know, but this is the you're like, hey, just promote 1656 01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:59,980 this stuff. I'm a drummer with a product. There's my practice 1657 01:33:59,980 --> 01:34:03,300 pad. By the practice pad. It's, it's made in America. Yeah, go 1658 01:34:03,300 --> 01:34:04,080 to Starbucks 1659 01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:08,400 and check out the mostly Middle Tennessee business podcast.com. 1660 01:34:08,760 --> 01:34:11,340 That's right, and it's just like George Burns used to say you're 1661 01:34:11,340 --> 01:34:15,120 that. They say, Hey, George, what does your doctor think 1662 01:34:15,180 --> 01:34:19,560 about you smoking 10 cigars a day and drinking copious amounts 1663 01:34:19,560 --> 01:34:22,640 of whiskey and chasing young women, and he said, 1664 01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:28,880 I don't know he's dead. Ah, we'll see you next time. Folks, 1665 01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:29,480 thanks, Matt. 1666 01:34:30,200 --> 01:34:35,000 This has been the rich Redmond show. Subscribe, rate and follow 1667 01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:35,420 along@richredmen.com 1668 01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:38,960 forward, slash podcasts. You