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Welcome to the West Side Investors Network, WIN, your community of investing knowledge for growth. This is the Real Estate Professionals Investing Podcast. For Real Estate Professionals by Real Estate Professionals. This show is focused on the next step in your career....... investing.
Welcome to the Westside Investors Network. WIN, your community of investing knowledge for growth. This is the real estate professionals investing podcast for real estate professionals by real estate professionals. This show is focused on the next step in your career, investing. Thank you for listening.
Intro speaker:And please, if you like our content, rate us on your podcast provider. Just a quick disclaimer. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are for educational purposes only and should not be construed as an offer to buy or sell any shares or securities to make or consider any investments or take any other action.
Trent:Welcome back to another episode of the deal deep dive segment on the Westside Investors Network podcast. I'm your host, Trent Warner. In this segment, our featured guests will share their unique stories on a specific deal they've invested in. We will dive deep into finding the deal, financing the deal, writing an offer, and the due diligence. Do us a solid and smash that subscribe button, leave us a rating, and share this episode.
Trent:And now let's dive deep. Welcome back to the Westside Investors Network podcast. I'm your host, Trent Warner. On today's deal deep dive episode, we're joined by Kyle Root. Kyle started investing in real estate in 2020 and was able to scale his real estate portfolio to 70 units in just two years.
Trent:At age 26, Kyle quit his w two job and focused solely on real estate investing. Now at age 28, he continues to scale his real estate business as well as coaching others how to build wealth through real estate investing. Now let's welcome Kyle Root. Kyle Root, thanks for joining us today on the Westside Investors Network podcast. I'm super excited to hear about your journey.
Trent:I mean, we're similar age, so I'm excited to hear your journey here today, and we can dive into your first deal that you invested in. Before we do that though, Kyle, wanna take a minute or two and just tell the people a little bit about yourself, who you are, kinda how you got to where you are right now?
Kyle:Yeah. First of all, thanks, Trent, for having me on. I appreciate it. Yeah. So just quick little overview of me.
Kyle:I'm 28 years old, started buying real estate. The 2019, you know, did a lot of probably like a lot of your listeners, I was working a w two job, went to college, got a degree, ended up working construction as a construction manager for a industrial construction company. So we were working on $100,000,000 refineries, power plants. And just kinda being around that environment is very you learn a lot. Like, you learn a lot about scheduling.
Kyle:You learn a lot about budgeting, how to negotiate contracts, things like that. And like many people, I was listening to all the podcasts, listening to all the book like, reading all the books. Every time I was in a vehicle, I was just information, information, information. And it was, yeah, 2019 working for about three years as a w two employee outside of college. And I just knew early on, I'm like, I gotta figure something else out.
Kyle:And we'll get into the detail, like, specific of the property, but ended up buying my first one 2019 and since then just scaled to I'm a little shy of 70 units right now. We're selling some of our bad ones off. But, yeah, just kind of an overview of me and where we're at today.
Trent:Awesome. One thing I like that you said there is a lot of people are in a similar position where they're in a w two role, and they are really good at absorbing a ton of info, especially when it comes to wanna you know, when you wanna get into real estate investing, you read Rich Dad Poor Dad. You listen to Bigger Pockets. You you listen to all these podcasts and read all these books and absorb the information. And I've found that a lot of people, especially some of the people I've talked with in my friend group, are familiar with those educational pieces and the information that's out there, but they never do anything with it.
Trent:And one thing that sounds like you did is you kinda started learning. You might may not have known everything perfectly, but you just dove into it and said, hey. I'll figure it out on my way. And I just know that this is something that's gonna benefit me in the long run, which I applaud you on. What are some of the daily habits or the tasks that you do on a daily basis to be able to quit a w two job after only two years investing in real estate?
Kyle:Yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up because I think a very common term is analysis paralysis. Right? You can basically analyze yourself out of every single task, every single property. I mean, depending on how you run your numbers, you can basically tell yourself it's a great property or a terrible property.
Kyle:You know? It's just the way it goes. As far as it goes, the daily habits, I mean, I'm not saying this is the key to success, but this is what works for me. I get up early. I get up at 04:00.
Kyle:I read. So every single day, I'm reading 10 pages, whether it's a inspirational book, motivational. I'm not really big into, like, the hoorah type moments. I'm pretty interested in, like, the intricacies of why we do what we do as human beings. So I read a lot about, like, psychology and things like that.
Kyle:So waking up early, reading, going to the gym, and by about 07:00, I've got everything right. And if, you know, people that have worked out early in the morning, I don't know if there's a better way to drink your coffee than, you know, working out. It's something that energizes me for my day and then going into my day. Right? So I've already got I've read my book.
Kyle:I got up early. I've I've already done a lot in the first three hours of the day. And at that point, I'm hitting the ground running. And I was doing this before I even left my w two job. You know, some of the things that are kinda circulating right now in the industry as a whole is marketing.
Kyle:Right? Like or getting around big groups of people, trying to go to these meetups, which is great. But people also are being pulled at their w two job to go to happy hour. There's always a reason. Right?
Kyle:There's always a reason to leave work and go do something with all your coworkers. When I was working at a w two employee, people were they literally called me the no man because I said no to everything. I said no. I wasn't going out to drink. Not that I didn't want to.
Kyle:It was just it didn't align with where I wanted to go. It was like, okay. I either go drink on a, you know, a Wednesday with all these coworkers, or I go home and I research and I read and I reach out to realtors. So I was doing a lot of those things where everyone was saying yes, I was saying no, and I was not just saying no to go sit at home and sit on the couch. I was actually taking actionable steps.
Kyle:And at that time, it was about reading and researching. So I'd go home and just research. So long story short, I guess it'd be I was saying no to everything that people were saying yes to.
Trent:Yeah. So you took that hyperfocus on your goals and the things that you wanted to achieve and accomplish, and you yeah. I mean, you honestly just didn't let yourself get deterred from that or get off the path that you were trying to get yourself further down, which is really cool. I see that you have a wedding ring on. Just kind of a side question, how does your spouse feel about the whole real estate investing, leaving a w two job?
Trent:Were you investing in real estate prior to getting married, or was this started after you got married?
Kyle:I owned one property before I met her, and I never realized how many I never realized how many relationships that are out there that hinder someone's ability to execute an idea. And luckily, my wife, Station, she's been amazing, Trent. I mean, it's amazing. She supports me in every movement that I do. She trusts me.
Kyle:The other piece to this, though, is I talk to a lot of people. I'm like, my wife doesn't trust me, or she doesn't think that I'm gonna be able to go execute on this. And then I ask them about their track record. I'm like, well, tell me a little bit about what you've done in the last two, three, four months. It's like, well, I haven't read any books.
Kyle:I haven't done any research. I'm just presenting an idea with no framework. So, like, I think it's very important that I was able to show Stacia that, hey. I've done one deal, and it went okay. I learned a lot.
Kyle:This is my plan for the future. And she was able to see three, four properties kind of work itself out and cash flow. Once she was able to see the picture, I think she was on board more. And since then, she's just really supported. I think it's hard.
Kyle:I think it would be really hard to try to convince somebody why it's a great idea right to see because everyone's talking about interest rates, collapsing, you know, all these things that's going on with the market. It could be difficult to try to convince, you know, somebody that that's a good idea for our household to go do.
Trent:The reason I asked that because my wife and I are kinda in a similar boat where we actually bought our first property together. It was a duplex just to live in one side. And so she was struggling to see the long term picture. But like you said, couple properties, few properties in, you start seeing the benefits and the rewards of it. And now it's a lot easier to get on board with the whole idea and the strategy.
Trent:That's the only reason I asked that. Going back to that deal that you were talking about, you said you owned one property before meeting your wife. Let's talk about that property. I know it was your first one. I believe it was a duplex, if I'm not wrong.
Trent:Why did you buy this duplex? How did you find the deal? And what were the metrics on it that encouraged you to actually buy the one that you ended up buying?
Kyle:So it was a side by side duplex here in Wisconsin. And kinda going back to what I was talking about, like, analysis paralysis. I was reading all the books. I was doing all the research. I had it all.
Kyle:I couldn't fathom picking up another book or listening to other podcasts without taking action. I mean, you've got Grant Cardone telling you to only buy multifamily, then you've got, you know, Chris Cron saying only single family. And I'm just like, I've gotta figure something out. Right? Like, I gotta get into it.
Kyle:Ended up setting up my team, real estate agent. I was able to get I knew that eventually I was gonna be moving back to Wisconsin. So at this time, I was traveling for construction. I wasn't living here full time. And eventually, I wanted to get back here.
Kyle:So I ended up gonna house hack, basically, this duplex, and I was getting funneled in from my realtor. I was getting tons of deal flow. I was analyzing them. They weren't working out. Like, from a math standpoint, the way I was running them, I'm like, this just isn't gonna work out.
Kyle:And I ended up leaving. I was out in Monterey, California at the time. I ended up leaving there, coming back to Wisconsin on a travel weekend. Just took a long weekend, came back here, walked a bunch of properties with my realtor, already had a preapproval from my lender at 5% down, and we walked probably 10 properties, Ended up coming to one that I liked. I asked it was listed at $1.97 5.
Kyle:And at the time, I'm like, jeez. I'm like, I wonder if we can knock a couple thousand off. Ran my numbers. I'm like, okay. I think we can cash flow about $500 a month on this.
Kyle:Once I move out, I'll be paying about 3 to $400 a month of my own money into it. And then once I move out, we'll be in the 500 range cash flow. And I sent her a message. I said, hey. What do you think?
Kyle:Do you think we can get this thing for $1.93, which is, you know, about $4 less? And what I know now, $4 in the grand scheme of things isn't really a lot of money, but then I thought I was a win. I'm like, dude, I'm winning one over on them. You know? Like, I got them good now.
Kyle:Got the offer accepted, put 5% down, interest rate at that time was, like, at four and a half percent. And just some, like, round math, I don't have it down to the pennies here, but my mortgage was about $800. Each side would rent for $7.50. So one side was $7.50. I was living in the other side for six months, and it was going good at the time.
Kyle:I'm like, I went from, you know, paying a thousand $600 out in California. Now I'm paying a couple $100 a month, got rid of my largest expense. Things are good. Right? And then maintenance started coming up and repairs and vacancy that I wasn't prepared for.
Kyle:I'm like, geez. This isn't it. Right? Like, I don't know what I'm doing. My confidence started deteriorating.
Kyle:And at that time, I was able to start reaching out to other people. When I moved out, I handed it over to a management company, and we're only I was making maybe a 150 to $200 a month. My math was wrong. Didn't account for management. Didn't account for vacancy, capital expenditures.
Kyle:I didn't account for any of that stuff. So, really, at the end of the day after having it for about two years, we basically broke even. I say we because my wife ended up getting married at the time. But the problem is here's the biggest learning lesson is that it again, this goes back to me not knowing or doing the right due diligence. I ended up coming across a management company that we had a great conversation with.
Kyle:And I was just going back and forth, and I was telling about this property that's not going well. And I told him the area that it was, and he said, well, what are you renting it for? I told him at the time it was about $800 a month. Tenants paid for the utilities. And he told me, he's like, that is so below market value.
Kyle:And, again, I didn't even know. I didn't do my own research. I was just like, of course, these management companies know more than me. They just told me they managed 500 units. Well, if anyone's listening, just know that the more units someone manages doesn't mean that they're a good management company.
Kyle:This company at the time was managing 300 units. He's like, no. We should be running this thing for a thousand bucks a month. And to me, I'm just like, are you kidding me? I'm missing out on $200 a month each side.
Kyle:So 400 a month total, $600 a month in cash flow. Ended up moving it to a different management company, and, yeah, we started making money again. And, again, 2020 happened, 2021 happened, and that's not gonna be a normal thing. Right? It went from me buying at $1.93 in 2019, and by 2021, I was able to sell it for $2.60 with it was in a good area, and there's no reason, you know, normal times in the Midwest that it's gonna appreciate 75,000 or 70,000 over a course of a year and a half.
Kyle:But that's just the power of real estate, having an asset, holding it. And as long as you hold it long enough, you'll be profitable. But, yeah, man, that was kinda my first property, kinda the first deal. I know there's a lot there, but, yeah, that was kind of it.
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Trent:Uptown syndication is now offering a syndication coaching program for you to take your real estate portfolio to the next level. This is your opportunity to have experienced syndicators, AJ and Chris Shepherd, coach you on your way to controlling your real estate investing future. Our coaching program will provide you with the tools and framework needed to begin syndicating real estate in your target market. Go to uptownsyndication.com today to learn more. So when you first purchased that deal and you were running your numbers, somehow you came up with a rental rate of $7.50.
Trent:When you purchased that property, did you inherit tenants, or was it vacant and you leased it out for $7.50?
Kyle:Yeah. I inherited tenants, kicked one of them out. When they moved out, I went in there, cleaned it up, fresh coat of paint, honestly, just enough for a tenant to move in. So I think I put, like, 5,000 into the one side. The one side that was continued to be leased, I moved them over.
Kyle:So they're paying, like, $6.50, and I moved them over to the freshly remodeled one, raised rent a $100, and ended up living in the side that the tenant just moved out of.
Trent:Okay. And then you also mentioned something about vacancy and maintenance. And so being in Oregon, we have a market that, you know, I like to call it a hybrid market where you can find some deals at cash flow, and then you can find some deals that are more an appreciation focused investment. And then you can find some deals that have both. I don't own any real estate in the Midwest, Wisconsin.
Trent:You know, it's all Oregon right now. How does analyzing a deal like you're talking about where the purchase price is $1.93 and your rents for both sides are gonna be a thousand, presumably when you have the new management company. So that deal is bringing in over 1% of the purchase price gross monthly rents every month. When you're analyzing a deal like that, how do you work the maintenance or the CapEx numbers into that analysis? Are you setting aside a certain amount of the rent or just a certain amount flat fee every month?
Trent:Doesn't matter what the rental rates that you're working with are.
Kyle:I set aside first of all, I've never bought again in the area that I bought. The area that I bought is like, if someone was going to it's strictly set up for house hackers or people that are interested in buying a place and living in. It's probably closer to, like, an a minus neighborhood, where in the Midwest, your cash flow is probably c to b neighborhoods. So that's all I buy now. So what I didn't understand the neighborhood either.
Kyle:I put for capital expenditures and this again, this is something that I didn't think about until now that I've got 70 units is depending on how you remodel properties. And as you keep accruing them, depends on how much you should put aside for capital expenditures and repairs. And so for me, I buy everything is under four units. Either a single family home, duplex, triplex, fourplex. And I now I basically remodel all of them to the exact same.
Kyle:I'm buying in c to b neighborhoods. And we're putting, again, depends on where our cash reserves are, but anywhere between, like, 35% for each category. So capital expenditures and repairs, we pay 9% to our management company. The other thing to keep in mind that I think a lot of people overlook is, let's say you have 10 properties, and you are like, okay. I wanna have $10 set aside for every single property or 50 whatever your number is.
Kyle:For easy math, let's just say it's 10,000. Mhmm. One of the things that I knew I wanted to do or that I could do is as I kept scaling, I didn't necessarily need $10 per property. Because you look, if you have a 100 properties, what's the if you have $10 for a 100 properties, I mean, that's a pile of liquid sitting in a bank account. Right?
Kyle:Like, you could probably continue to dwindle that as your reserves kept going, and and that's what I kept doing. So I think initially having strong reserves is super critical, but as you keep growing that unit count, the amount of reserve per property, not total, but per property can go down, and that was something that I was able to do as well.
Trent:That makes sense. The reason I asked that is because every time I've analyzed I've looked at Indiana, for example. Every time I've analyzed the deal in Indiana, I see great cash flow compared to this, you know, to the purchase price. But then I'm using construction and CapEx numbers from Oregon where it seems as if you have a property that, you know, you're setting aside $250 a month for CapEx and you need a new roof. Well, that just wiped out your CapEx plus your profits for the year.
Trent:So I was curious to see how you worked that into your management and your basically, your asset management of your portfolio being in a market that has better cash flow.
Kyle:Yeah. I gotcha. Yeah. So one of the things that we do right out of the gate is I don't necessarily say, okay. Month one, we're going 55% right out of the gate.
Kyle:What we do is we build up to a certain reserve amount. So if let's say a property is rented for a thousand, we're cash flowing $200 a month, we're gonna take, you know, our point is to get to $5,000 on this single family home to put into our reserve account. Like I don't need the cash flow today on new ones that we buy. So I'll take all the cash flow, and I'll just keep dumping it into the reserve account reserve account until I hit my kind of my threshold on where I need to be. And then I'll start pulling some of the cash flow for myself.
Kyle:And at that point, we implement about 5% of capital expenditures, repairs, things like that. And, again, like I was just mentioning, here in the Midwest, you've got a lot of old houses, a lot of beat up homes. Like, the cash flow is good. The cash flow is really good, but your repairs are probably gonna be higher than, you know, a lot of the areas that are around outside of the Midwest. Like, I know that there's a lot of investors that I work with that are down in Florida, and their repairs are significantly less than mine.
Kyle:And we have snow removal. So there's a lot of things that come with snow removal and gutters and flooded basements that a lot of people don't think about. They just look at the Midwest. They're like, well, jeez. I can buy a $50,000 house or rent it for a thousand bucks a month.
Kyle:Right? And it's like, there's a lot of other things that go into it.
Trent:Right. So I guess now that you've obviously, you've scaled your portfolio to much larger than one duplex. What do you see yourself doing in the next twelve to twenty four months given the current interest rate market, the current uncertainty with everything going on, what's your plan for the next twelve to twenty four months when it comes to your portfolio?
Kyle:We are and I keep saying we as my wife. We are looking at selling off all of our poor assets. So we have a certain cash value. If we're not over two months and we've shown several, like six months in the negative, we're selling those off. We're trading poor assets for good assets.
Kyle:We're also analyzing our interest rate. So we're not gonna go sell a 4% interest rate and go buy at seven and a half percent without the cash flow being there. Like, we're still buying properties at cash flow well, but we're analyzing our current portfolio. And this is one thing I wanna mention, I'll kinda, I know I'm getting sidetracked here, but when people are looking at their portfolio, a lot of times people don't realize how much extra cash flow is actually being taken out of their own portfolio. Like, if you look at your portfolio and you have a bunch of interest rates, and again, I'm talking about futuristic stuff, that you're locked in at 7%.
Kyle:Just because you're cash flowing 150 or $200 today, in five years and ten years when interest rates change, you're gonna be able to do a rate term refinance, and you're gonna be able to be in a way better position. So, like, I think a lot of people are just saying, I'm not buying today because of, you know, twelve months, twenty four months of what's gonna happen. We're still buying, but we're just getting rid of our nineteen ten houses and 19 where there's asbestos and things like that. So if there's a roof coming up, we're getting rid of our bad assets and we're looking at more, you know, plus nineteen sixty homes that don't have the asbestos on them, don't have the big repairs, they have more modern look, will yield a better tenant. So doing a little bit of trading, I think at the end of this year, we'll be sitting around a 100 units.
Kyle:We're buying between two to three properties a month right now, but also we're selling two to three. So we're kind of just changing hand in hand, and we're just to be honest, we're just trying to create a stronger portfolio because we could sit here and talk about what's going to happen in the next twelve to twenty four months, but in my opinion, none of us really know.
Trent:Exactly, exactly.
Kyle:Yeah, none of us really know.
Trent:So right now you're increasing the quality of your assets as well as acquiring more of them as we go forward. Are you ten thirty one exchanging these assets when you are trading them?
Kyle:We are. So not all of them. Some of them we ended up actually moving pretty quickly because we found some off market guys that were pretty interested, and ten thirty one exchange took longer than I expected, but we are setting up right now to do that. I haven't fully seen it out. Haven't executed a ten thirty one exchange yet, but we're setting that up.
Kyle:And I'm I'm excited to go through it. I'm curious. And I know this is your interview, but do you have any experience in it? Have you done any?
Trent:Personally, no, because I haven't sold any of our assets, but I have I'm a real estate broker as well. And so I have worked with a client that actually did a ten thirty one exchange from a business that he sold into real estate. It was hectic until the properties were identified. But once we got him identified and in contract, it was very smooth. It helped him.
Trent:I think he saved probably, like, $253,100 grand in taxes or deferred it. You know? So for him, it was awesome. And I have seen the process. And if you find a good company to work with, they make it pretty easy.
Kyle:Mean, what an incredible I mean, the $10.31 exchange, what an incredible, like, tax strategy. Right? I mean, it's incredible. Yeah.
Trent:One thing kinda backtracking that I did wanna talk about is you mentioned something about interest rates. And if a deal is cash flowing right now and you're running your numbers with the current interest rates, it honestly doesn't matter what the rate is. You could tell someone that you have a 47% interest rate, but if the deal cash flows and is profitable, 47% interest doesn't really matter or it doesn't make a difference. And a real life example of that is my wife and I's first property was a side by side duplex similar to yours. We bought it at like a five and an eighth rate.
Trent:And six months, maybe six months later, this was in the 2018 in July or June 2019, we were already doing a rate and term refinance. Went from five and an eighth to four and a half. And we still have it at four and a half today. When we moved out of the property, I ran the numbers recently. We basically increased our cash flow by $202.50 bucks a month just because we did the rate and term when we did it.
Trent:And yeah, we could have done it again when rates were in the threes or whatnot, but I wasn't concerned with that because I know rents are going to continue to increase, especially in the area that this one's in. And so it went from cash flowing $500 a month to now it's cash flowing about $1,300 a month total, not per unit, but total, which like you talked about earlier, the power of owning real estate, you're able to increase rents. If you can adjust the interest rates when they improve, you're just going to increase your cash flow down the road, which is a real life example I wanted to give because you mentioned you know, not getting caught up on where interest rates are at currently.
Kyle:So Yeah. Yeah. And if I guess, just if I could give an example, it's kind of analytical, but I hope that people can follow it. It could be really, really beneficial. And I don't hear many people talking about this.
Kyle:Another piece with these interest rates that people don't think about is and this is kinda my plan. Let's say I'm locking in at 7%, and I'm on a thirty year note. In ten years, let's say they dropped 2%. So I can do a rate term refi. I went from 7% to five percent, and that increases my cash flow.
Kyle:What I've also done is I've paid off my debt over a course of ten years. So my amortization went from 30 to now 20, and let's say for easy math, I went from a 100,000 to 80,000 on my principal. Mhmm. What my plan is, and again, a lot happens in ten years, but Kyle sitting today, this is my plan. My plan would be to refinance the rate, refinance the current debt amount.
Kyle:So I went from being amortized at thirty years for a $100,000, so obviously your mortgage is significantly higher. I'm going to leave the current debt at 80,000 and keep the same amortization. So basically, my loan would look at 5% over twenty years. So the payoff is the exact same, but my principal and interest payment is going to be at the debt of 80,000. I hope that makes sense, but, therefore, like, you're increasing your cash flow in three different areas and still gonna be able to pay off at the same amount if you're the person that, you know, doesn't always do cash out refinances and take money out now.
Kyle:But that's another, you know, area that you could look at in the future for other people.
Trent:Yeah. I haven't thought about that at all. So I'm glad you brought that up. That is a strategy, especially if you're someone that wants to have a handful or however many paid off properties, and then you can continue to leverage some of the other ones that you own. That's a good strategy to insulate yourself a little bit in case something does hit the fan down the road.
Trent:So I like that idea. Kyle, do you have anything else you want to share today? Is there a place where people can learn more about you, connect with you? And if so, where can they find you?
Kyle:Yeah. I think Instagram is the best place. Just k j underscore root is the best place to go. I put out a bunch of free content there, and I love just talking to people. I love reaching out.
Kyle:People reaching out to me or just having good conversations. I think if anyone's gonna kinda get started, just know that things are gonna be okay. Like, as long as you hold real estate long enough, it will work out. And after your just know after your first deal, it gets easier. Your second gets easier, then your third and fourth, you get better at analyzing.
Kyle:Just know your first one is probably gonna be your hardest one, and then it gets better after that.
Trent:And most of the time, you'll also develop the real estate addiction after your first one. So it not only gets easier, but it gets more fun when you're doing it.
Kyle:That's it.
Trent:I like that. Well, Kyle, I appreciate your time today. Thank you for joining us. I really appreciate you sharing about your first duplex in Wisconsin.
Kyle:Thanks, Trent.
Intro speaker:Thank you for listening to this episode of the Real Estate Professionals Investing Podcast on WIN, your community of investing knowledge for growth. We hope that this episode has increased your knowledge and added value to your path to freedom. If you would, please take a second to rate us so that we can get more great investors to interview. If you or someone that you know wants to be on, please visit westsideinvestors.com and fill out our form to be on the show. Thank you again, and enjoy your day.