[00:00:00:00 - 00:00:01:15]
 (Gentle Music)

[00:00:02:16 - 00:00:23:16]
 Hey, Dr. Mindy here, and welcome to the Live Like a Girl podcast, where I bring you icons, disruptors, educators, scientists, and doctors that show you what can be possible when you love and celebrate the female body you are blessed to live in. Let's dive in.

[00:00:25:09 - 00:01:47:20]
 Learning to love your body is no simple task. Most of us have spent our whole lives measuring ourselves against the images we see in movies, on social media, and in magazines. But here's a startling truth. Only about 5% of women are naturally built like the bodies we see on those mediums. So we continue to effort, we manipulate, we medicate, sometimes we punish, hoping our bodies will finally cooperate. And then there's the food noise. Can we talk about the food noise for a hot second? It's the term that's taken the metabolic world by storm, the relentless intrusive chatter telling you to eat, not because you're hungry, because the voice won't go quiet. For some women, it takes over their entire day. Over the last two years, food noise went everywhere, TikTok, the news, Oprah's stage, and it surged for one reason. A new class of weight loss drugs swept the culture and women started reporting something they had never felt before, silence. The voice went quiet. And for so many of them, that quiet mattered more than the number on the scale.

[00:01:48:21 - 00:02:31:23]
 And the scale of this is staggering. One in eight American adults is currently taking a GLP-1 drug. One in eight. Among people living with obesity, more than half, around 50% say that they've been living with this food noise, not hunger, but actual noise. 58% of women in this country say they wanna lose weight. Not, wouldn't mind if they lose weight, but they want to lose weight. This is at a far higher rate than men. A gap that's barely budged in 50 years. On average, women sit about 20 pounds from the weight we tell ourselves we should be.

[00:02:33:03 - 00:02:40:06]
 Like, think about that for a moment. We are always hoping we are gonna lose that weight someday.

[00:02:41:18 - 00:06:05:21]
 And here's where it starts to turn really dangerous because food noise rarely is about food. There's something deeper here that's gonna allow us to understand. There's noise in our head. It festers, it becomes guilt, it becomes shame. It becomes a voice whispering that you're not disciplined enough. You're not good enough. You're not small enough. And unfortunately, it doesn't stay in the kitchen. It walks into your meetings, sits down with you at a family dinner, and it decides how you feel in the mirror before you've even leave your house. So when a woman tells me she wants to care for her health, her energy, her labs, her long life, I am all in. But when a woman tells me that she can't lose weight, she says it with her head down, like there's something wrong with her, like she's failed some test that everyone else has passed. When she tells me she wants to shrink herself and take up less space because the world made her believe smaller is better, that's when I pull the emergency brake. And that's when we go deeper. Because you can love how you look and you can fight for your health at the same time. Both can live in the same body, your body. And I refuse to let one woman believe she has to silence herself or become smaller in order to be worthy. This is why I am bringing you Dr. Rachel Goldman. Dr. Rachel Goldman is a clinical psychologist and a clinical assistant professor of psychiatry at NYU, Grossman School of Medicine. This woman knows her stuff. She specializes in cognitive behavioral therapy, disordered eating, and the mind-body connection. And her new book, "When Life Happens," hands women real tools to quiet the stress, quiet the noise, rebuild the confidence, and reframe the way we see our bodies. She's been featured in Time Magazine, The New York Times, CNN, and On the Today Show, and she shared the stage with Oprah herself. And today, she sits down with me for all of it. The body image, and yes, that voice, that noise, that maybe has been talking to you your whole life. And my hope with this episode is very simple. It's that this conversation finds you right where you are right now, whether you have lost weight, you're trying to lose weight, you're trying to be healthy, you're on the drugs, you're not on the drugs. This conversation is for everybody, everybody that wants to learn to live like a girl and do life and your health and your weight and the way you look on your terms. So whether you wanna lose weight or not, there is so much in this conversation. This is such a powerful conversation that I know many women are gonna come to mind as you listen to this. Please share it out. My goal with my podcast, with my videos, with my books, is to help women fall in love with their bodies no matter what size they are. So without further ado, let's dive in, Dr. Rachel Goldman.

[00:06:06:22 - 00:06:38:16]
 Dr. Rachel Goldman, let me start off by welcoming you to my new upgraded podcast, Live Like a Girl podcast. I am so excited for this conversation and thank you for joining me. Of course, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here with you today. One of the reasons I want to bring you to my audience is because you are talking about something that I see my audience both on podcast and on YouTube really struggle with and it's body image. So let's start here.

[00:06:39:20 - 00:09:17:06]
 I've heard you say that food and body struggles are not willpower, that there is a psychological, a biological explanation for why we gain weight, hate our bodies, especially hate our belly fat and so can you start by expanding upon that? Yeah, so there's, I mean, first of all, it goes so deep, right? I think we could just think about the messages that we are given beginning at a young age actually and from all around us, right? I don't like to blame our parents but it's messages from everywhere and everyone. It's media, it's all of these things that's been throwing these messages at us and then we internalize them. So when we hear things, we eventually internalize it and I like to remind people that our thoughts, emotions and behaviors are all linked. So if we hear something that we internalize, we start thinking it, that self talk, the thoughts, that then impacts how we feel, that that impacts our behaviors. So if we're thinking something that can lead to all of these things and it's not just about willpower, if it was as easy as just eat less and move more, we wouldn't have an obesity problem. We wouldn't have all of these things, all of these other health conditions as well. It's not that easy. Yeah, I heard a statistic the other day that is quite frightening and it's that only 5% of women naturally possess the body type that is most often portrayed in American media. Only 5% of us naturally look like that and that's what we're measuring ourselves against when we look at movies and commercials and social media, but only 5% of us have this naturally. Where do we begin to unwind this obsession with looking like the woman down the street or the woman on Instagram or the celebrity who now has gotten thinner and thinner? How do we stop that? And I think that statistic is where we can start. For people to become aware that only 5% naturally look like this and have that body type because I think again, we're given all of these messages and the idea is that we should, I like to use air quotes on this, we should look a certain way. We should look like the celebrities and the people that have personal trainers with them all the time and the chefs and all these, they have access to all of that, the people that sometimes look like that.

[00:09:18:08 - 00:16:53:13]
 And that's the first place to look and to understand is that this isn't realistic, right? Yes. And to understand our bodies and our needs and that's so hard to do with all the noise. I like to call it noise, right? Yeah, that's a good way to explain it. The noise of the Instagram and the comparison and the media and all of these things. That's noise that's getting in the way of us really being able to turn inward and understand our bodies and what our bodies need, which often our bodies are giving us signals, but we live in this world that's go, go, go, go, go all the time, that nobody has time to listen to their bodies and they're ignoring those messages. Yeah, so what's the difference between body image and self image? Are they intertwined? They are intertwined. And I think it's, the way I like to describe it is that our self, our bodies, we all have a body and how we feel about our body is going to impact how we feel about ourself as a whole. It's really hard to separate that. But also body image is more than just what we see in the mirror. It's really how we feel and think and view our bodies. It doesn't matter what we see in the mirror. It's really more about how we feel and how we feel and think about our bodies as a whole. And it can shift. So every day we could wake up feeling differently about our bodies and about ourselves. So our body image is, I like to think of it as kind of on a continuum. We don't always have, say positive body image. We don't always have low body image. It can shift, it can change based off of so many different things. And that impacts how we feel about ourselves as a whole because we live in our bodies, we're moving around in our bodies all day, every day. So it's really hard to separate that. But self image is also how you feel about yourself. Exactly. And so this is something that I've really tried to talk to my following about and have a really open discussion because if I feel bad about myself, I may be more inclined to go eat. And then I go eat and now I feel worse about myself because maybe I ate the wrong thing. And then maybe a week later, now I look in the mirror and I realize I don't like how I look, which now I've got shaming my body image is down, my self image is down. And so I keep asking myself, where's the door in? Do we start by helping women fall in love with themselves regardless of what they look like? Or do we actually start to get women to lose weight and fall in love with their body so that they love all of them? You see what I'm saying? Like they're two opposite ends of a coin. Absolutely. And the type of therapy that I do is called cognitive behavior therapy, which is the idea that our thoughts, emotions and behaviors are linked. One of the best parts about CBT is that we can intervene at the thought or the behavior. So for some people, it might be easier to start shifting their thoughts and reframing the way that they think about their bodies. For other people, it might mean that they have to act first, start taking the behaviors, start seeing change in their bodies perhaps, and then the thoughts start to kind of follow and then it becomes the cycle or this loop. So I don't like to think of it as one or the other. I think for some, it's easier to start with the thoughts. And for some, it's easier to start with the behaviors, but it's all related and they're gonna follow. Yeah, it reminds me of it's one of the things that is troubling me right now is that because so many people go to social media for their health advice, is that women are getting the idea that there's one way to do health. And what I just heard is you have to know yourself to know, do I go to my thoughts and fall in love with myself first or do I go to my body and try to lose weight so that I will love myself? It's a very personal door in. Is that what I heard in that? Exactly, it's everybody has their own unique journey and I think they have to think about what works for them, what might work for them, what hasn't worked for them before and then to start where they are now. That's another, I think, big misconception that people like to start at where they were five years ago or where they think they should be at this age or in this phase of life, but we have to start where they are right now and think about what is the next baby step to take right now. And again, that could be to work on the thoughts or it could be maybe getting a gym membership, right? Like baby steps, just start very slow. And with that though, I think we can also start reframing and maybe trying to separate, you know, that our worth isn't based off of either our weight, body, shape, size, or the way that we see ourselves, right? And that I think is pretty intertwined as well. Yeah, and that whole worth part has been really acute on my brain lately because I think that we are measuring ourselves against a standard that women didn't set. Right. You know, and if we go, I'm gonna just go into the patriarch because that has been a topic that I've been really looking at and by the patriarch, I don't say, I don't think of it as men, but that there's a power over system that has trained women to think, if I look this a certain way, then I will be loved, I will be worthy. And as somebody who teaches metabolic health, I feel like we have to unpack that. Yes, I couldn't agree more because that is the message that we've been told for as long as I can remember. And you know, before then even, but there is this kind of underlying unconscious message and kind of out there at the same time that says that you have to look a certain way to get the best job, to get the best partner, to be able to take that trip, to have the kids, to do all those things. And if you don't look that way, then something's wrong with you. But nothing's wrong with you, right? We're all human, we come in different bodies, shapes and sizes, we have different needs. And again, kind of turning inward and being like, what do I need? Because it can never, like, we say the goal post seems to keep moving, right? It's like, well, the next one, the next one, losing more weight, losing more, whatever it is. And I hear this all the time from my clients, it's like, well, if I were to just lose 10 pounds, I'd take the beatification, I would put on the beating suit, I would find the partner, I'm like, no, actually, you know, maybe it's about the way that you view yourself and shifting the way that you think about this. And then maybe you have more self confidence and then maybe that attracts those people. Or maybe then you'll feel more confident to put on the beating suit or go to the beach or whatever it is. Sometimes we have to change our own system because the system isn't necessarily gonna change itself. Yeah, I'll tell you, I had a really pivotal moment about seven years ago, I was running around my neighborhood and this 70 year old woman, she must have been like 70, 75, she was like, waved me down. And I pulled my AirPods out and I was like, hi. And she goes, it must be amazing to live in your body.

[00:16:54:15 - 00:25:02:18]
 And to have like a 70 year old, I was 50 at the time, turn around and give me reflection that she is looking at a younger part of her. And that we, you know, and then I see through her lens that, oh wait, the goal is to love living in your body. Here's the 70, right now, yeah, the 75 year old is enjoying watching me live in my body. Am I enjoying watching me live in my body? Right, I love that she did that. Isn't that sweet? Yeah, I feel like I'd be like, oh my God, thank you so much. I did, I did and it really made me look at, I really started to make my guiding light, this idea that what the goal of health in general was to love living in my body. And it changed the way I approached my health. It was one woman's comment. So I want, and because that freed me, I'm like, how do we get more women understanding that the target that they have been efforting and trying to achieve is a very difficult target to achieve. And when they don't achieve it, they think their bodies betrayed them. So how do we help that mindset where I tried every diet, I did all these things, it must be my genetics, I must not be able to lose weight, my body is betraying me, I have so many followers that think their body is betraying them. What is the mindset shift on that? Yeah, I think the first thing is to acknowledge that it's not your fault, right? And just because it's not working right now, doesn't mean that something's wrong with you or that you're broken in any way. I mean, there is a genetic part, right? It could be like the biology, maybe it's time to seek a doctor and to see what's going on. But I think to drop some of the expectation that it should be a certain way or that we should look like everybody else or we should fit into the clothes that we wore years ago, right, and kind of to accept like what you were saying with this lady, accept where we are right now and, I love the power of and, and then what can I do about it, right? Like two things can be true at the same time. Like maybe this sucks, right? You're like, this sucks. Yeah, acknowledge that. Right, like acknowledging this sucks, I don't feel good in my body right now, it's changing, I'm going through something and what can I do about it now? Because most people, the mindset becomes what's wrong with me? Why is this happening to me? And that leads to this cycle of more shame, more guilt, what am I doing wrong, restricting, binging, you know, could lead to all these cycles as opposed to just wait a minute, this sucks, let me acknowledge it and now what can I do about it? Yeah, and I would think you would need to ask that question over and over again. Yeah, I mean, our brains need repetition, right? Like a one time telling yourself something isn't gonna cut it. We need that repetition, we need practice, we need consistency and over time, because psychology and learned behavior tells us that over time we can retrain our brain, you know, in time by saying the same thing, we can learn things and then learn new things. So kind of the automatic thought might be what's wrong with me, why is this happening to me? And over time we can be pause, this is not a helpful statement, this doesn't get me anywhere good. Let me think, okay, this sucks and now what are my choices? What's in my control right now? That's a great place to start, just acknowledging let's focus on what's in my control right now. Yeah, and talk to me a little bit about the difference between body positivity and body neutrality. When Fast Like a Girl came out, body positivity was a very hot topic and it seems like it's disappeared a bit. And yet the mindset I think is still there for some. Yeah, so one of my favorite questions, because I think a lot of people don't know that body neutrality exists or that it can exist. Yeah, I haven't heard that phrase. So body neutrality is a little bit easier, I think, for people to accept, especially when they may not love their body. And I like to remind people, you don't need to love every inch of your body every single day, that is unrealistic. I mean, even me being an expert in this area, I don't love every inch of my body every single day. That's just not normal, it's not realistic. So body neutrality is this acceptance that our bodies serve a purpose, our body has function, I can appreciate my body for what it does for me. And I like to think of it as kind of like we're on a journey of body acceptance, it's a journey. But body neutrality is taking the focus off of appearance and putting the focus on the function of our body. So I love to give examples. And examples like, I love my legs because they allow me to run, or they allow me to walk point A to point B. I love my arms because they allow me to hug my children. So looking at the function of our bodies as opposed to the appearance. And most people can do that, it takes some work, but most people can do that. I had a client earlier today that was even mentioning she hates her legs. And I had said, "Okay, we can acknowledge "that you hate your legs and you don't like wearing shorts." And, I know, and let's think about what your legs allow you to do. So every time you say to yourself, "I hate my legs," I said, "I want you to add the word and," and say, "And my legs allow me to walk my son to school," whatever it is. In time with that repetition, we're not gonna hate our legs anymore. We're gonna just learn this new appreciation, which is going to allow us to move more towards body acceptance. Right, and do you think that if I accept my body, then the health habits that fall in line after that acceptance become nurturing, not punishment. Have you seen that? Absolutely, yes. And I think the key is accepting your body where it is today and being okay with that, it doesn't mean that maybe you might wanna change something. That's also okay. But I think this is where the body positivity gets a little sticky sometimes. It's like, "Well, if I love my body all the time, "that must mean that I don't want it to change. "I don't wanna change anything." You're allowed to, say, be on certain medications if you need them for certain diseases and things like that. And that doesn't necessarily change the fact that you love your body. I think it actually means you love your body even more. Like, "I wanna be healthy. "I love my body. "I'm gonna seek treatment for whatever it is that I need." Right. Like, it's a gift you're giving yourself. Exactly. Yeah, and I think that's, you know, one thing that I've really honed in on with my following is that we need to start looking at food as a relationship. And we need to look at our body as a relationship. Like, it's a relationship like you would put effort into a nurture if you were in a marriage or with your child. Like, somehow we left, like, you know, as women, we left the nurturing of our body out of the picture. Right. We're the harshest critic of ourselves. Right? Especially when it comes to our bodies. But you're absolutely right. I think that can change the mindset, right? If we can frame it that we have a relationship with our body, right? So like, yes, there is a relationship with food, with our body. And if we can shift that and tell ourselves that, I think it is easier for people to be a little kinder. Yes, yeah. Then you don't want to punish yourself because it would be like hurting the relationship. Exactly. And to me, that ties into all the body keeps the score,

[00:25:03:22 - 00:25:33:13]
 research that continues to come out. It's like if your body has an ability to talk to you, it has ability to be in relationship with you, it loves you. And yet we spend so much time hating on it. Right. We ignore it and we hate it. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. It's so unfortunate. Where do you think that this is that body positivity, body image, where do you think that's gonna go with the new obsession of the weight loss drugs?

[00:25:35:01 - 00:25:36:08]
 I can't predict the future.

[00:25:37:18 - 00:26:44:22]
 But I, you know, it's so interesting because I think in one sense, we have come a long way in terms of the treatment of obesity, having some of these medications available, people seeking treatment, people talking about it openly, normalizing some of it. And on the flip side, I think there is an obsession that has continued with, I hate the term, but I'm gonna use it because it's like a headline with like shrinking bodies, right? And it's scary because when individuals are on these medications that they're not necessarily indicated for, there is then the comparison of, well, if they're on it and they're losing weight, should I be on it? Should I be losing weight? What's wrong with me? I didn't think they were overweight, but if they're, you know, like kind of this comparison happens and then we internalize those messages and that leads to more shame and guilt as well. Right. So, you know, I don't really know. I know in the field, you know, there's more medications coming out. There's, you know, there's gonna be more research coming out, we're gonna learn more. We've come a long way in that with the science,

[00:26:46:00 - 00:32:24:07]
 but I hope, you know, it stops in a way, you know, that individual, you know, because it's too easy to get it, unfortunately, to get some of the medications that they're, you know, not necessarily indicated for some individuals. And I like to think of it as those individuals who are on them are using them like a crash diet, really. Yeah. Right, it's like the quick fix, which is not gonna be sustainable. You're not working on the mindset, you're not working on the relationship with your food or body. Maybe you're losing X amount of weight for a short time. So, you know, hopefully it'll be kind of like diet culture in a way and like, oh, it's the in thing and then it dies off, hopefully. And it dies out, yeah. Right, other than for the people who really need it. That's right. Yeah, do you think, one thing I've been, again, educating my following on is that when you have a physical challenge, whether it's I need to drop 50 pounds or I need to overcome an autoimmune condition, and you go and seek answers for that, and then you put in the effort to be able to overturn that. There's a lot of self pride. We're back at the self image. Like your confidence, your self image goes up because you had to face something hard and you had to create new neurons in your brain to overcome that hard. And one of the aspects that I'm concerned about is the way that the drugs get handed out. There's no lifestyle like suggestions. And now I lose weight, but I didn't have to overcome anything to be able to do that. From a psychologist standpoint, is that a dangerous approach if all of a sudden that becomes our number one way to lose weight? Yeah, and I mean, it's dangerous to begin with if people that these medications are not indicated for are using them, right? Like studies haven't been done on individuals with say a normal BMI using these medications, right? They're indicated for diabetes and obesity. So I think there's danger in that alone. And then there's danger even on with the individuals that they are indicated for, if they're not working with say a nutritionist, with getting the behavioral health side help, the mindset shift and working on those relationships also. And that's why I like to call it kind of like a crash diet for the other individuals. Because you're just on it to lose weight and then you're gonna get off of it and nothing really changed. Right, and it comes back and then you're gonna think, oh, now what are you gonna say to your friends? Now you have to admit that you really didn't have a solution. Exactly, so it becomes dangerous. And it doesn't become sustainable either. So a lot of people that do wanna lose a short, a little bit of a amount of weight may not wanna be on those medications for the rest of their life. And if you get off of them without doing any of the other work, it will probably come back eventually. Yeah, yeah. One of the really good things that happened with this conversation around the weight loss drugs is we've really brought to the forefront this idea of food noise. I don't think we ever talked about food noise before. So what is food noise from a psychology standpoint? Because that is a term that gets thrown around like it's an identity. Yeah, I'm so glad that you brought this up because I recently spoke at a symposium on food noise and actually in the audience and speakers we're all eating disorder experts and experts in the field of obesity. And we were saying that we've known about food noise for years, but there was never a term for it. So now we have a label, right? Now we have a name for it. Which is helpful. Which is super helpful, absolutely. So we used to just describe it and now we know, okay, we could call it this so we can measure it also. So food noise is the constant obsession, the constant thoughts, the rumination related to food and eating. So it could be, it's like, I like to think of it as mental chatter. It's like you're bringing that's constantly thinking and chattering about, when's my next meal? Did I eat enough? Did I not eat too much? Did I, you know, when am I gonna be hungry again? What, you know, like this just constant noise around food and eating. And it takes up so much mental space for the individuals that really do have it. And these medications, I don't like to say that it completely eliminates because it doesn't for everybody, but it definitely makes it quieter. It turns the volume down, which then allows people to do some of the other mindset work and allows them to be present. I mean, the things that I hear my clients say, it's like, oh my gosh, I can enjoy cooking again without just having to like nibble on everything while I'm cooking or thinking about food again. They can enjoy being present because that noise is lower so they're not constantly thinking about the next meal and food. It's again, quite remarkable in terms of what the medication can do for that. Yeah, and I would say when I hear people say the freedom it gave them, I have a lot of empathy. I'm like, wow, yeah, cause you can, it's like you got your brain back. But what I know about the human body is we weren't born with food noise. So food noise had to be somewhere along our life, had to be a state that took over our brain. Do we know what that state is?

[00:32:25:08 - 00:33:47:10]
 So the way that I like to think of it similarly, I think is, it's a signal, right? It's our brain giving us a signal. And this is why I mentioned before the eating disorder experts and the obesity experts. Right, yeah, it's an interesting mixture. Because we see food noise in individuals that restrict also, right? People can have food noise in any body shape and size. And I think that's really important to acknowledge because if somebody is restricting, they're gonna have louder food noise because the body wants food. Our brain is wired for survival. Interesting. So our brain is gonna keep giving us this noise that's like eat, eat, because you're hungry, you are physiologically hungry. So I think, I absolutely agree with you, we weren't born with food noise. And it has evolved, I think for many reasons. One, it could be biological because our bodies need food. And I think because of all of the noise around us, right? Like our brains also weren't wired for constant messages. Like all of the commercials and all the food and all the food availability and accessibility. We live in a different world than our brains were really wired for. Yeah. Is there a way to overcome food noise without the medication?

[00:33:49:13 - 00:33:50:16]
 I would like to say yes.

[00:33:51:22 - 00:35:19:14]
 And the first thing I do with my clients is actually make sure that they're eating regularly throughout the day. Because again, restricting can lead to that. And when I say restricting, though it may not just be restricting calories, it may be restricting food groups. It may be eating enough in terms of what you think should be enough for you. But oftentimes people aren't eating enough substance that's going to satisfy them, not just physiologically, but emotionally and psychologically. So I like to really look at what my clients are eating throughout the day and make sure they're eating regularly throughout the day. How are they eating? Are they eating quickly and mindlessly? I would first have them slow down and participate in more mindful eating. Maybe see a dietician and add some more protein and fiber and things like that. And then I usually, the food noise quiets a little bit, because again, I think it's a signal and it's a sign. And I think individuals in larger bodies that struggle with obesity, it's kind of the same. I think their brains and bodies are telling them to eat more, even though they're eating X amount of food. I'm not saying that they all overeat because they don't. But I think if we go back to the basics, like very basics, like let's eat regularly throughout the day. Let's make sure we're eating enough nutrients. Let's eat mindfully and slow down. I think we can quiet the food noise.

[00:35:20:15 - 00:36:10:12]
 Ironically, what you just proposed is the opposite of what people do once they get on the drug because they don't get enough nutrients and they don't eat enough. So it quiets it, but then they perpetuates the behavior that got them there in the first place. So oftentimes with my clients, I know that the medication is making them eat less. I know it's decreasing their cravings. I know it's decreasing their appetite, but it's still very important to be eating those nutrients and making sure they're feeling their bodies. I mean, it's feeling our brain and our bodies, right? Oftentimes I hear clients, I can't concentrate. Irritable, I can't focus, I can't get through the day. I'm so tired. And many times that's because they're not eating enough. Yeah, yeah. What does true hunger signal feel like to the brain? Do we have any idea?

[00:36:11:14 - 00:39:05:16]
 You know, I could kind of just think about like what do, you know, the mind-body connection is real. So kind of like what that hunger is signaling to the brain. But again, I think we're gonna hear that chatter and then it's gonna impact because everything's related, it's gonna impact our emotions, our mood, our productivity. So again, when we start hearing like, I'm so tired, I feel lethargic, I don't have energy, my sleep isn't good, my focus isn't good, I can't concentrate. They're probably not properly fueling themselves. And that's gonna show up in all of these areas of their life and their brain is gonna signal that something's wrong and their body might start kind of shutting down in a way. Like this is when we start maybe seeing illness as well. Or that stress mind-body connection, it's stress on our bodies. So that can exacerbate illness and all these other things. So I think it's important that we don't separate mind and body, they're constantly sending signals and messages to each other. But in a normal day, if I eat breakfast, then and I eat a good nutritious breakfast, that's key, because I just heard that. That's the key. And what you just said. Like coffee is not breakfast. Right, so I should feel like, oh, I'm full, that was good. And for a couple of hours, I should not be thinking about food. And then maybe the next meal is, oh, it's lunch now. Okay, I'm hungry again. Oh, I haven't eaten a few hours. That would be the normal pattern. But what I'm understanding from people who have extreme food noises, it just never stops you. Eating it just never stops. Exactly, right. And again, before we had this term, I think people thought something was wrong with them. Yeah, right. Right? Like why am I thinking about food all the time? What's wrong with me? I can't concentrate. But yes, I think for the person without food noise or without loud food noise, it would be, it's time to eat. I eat, I feel satisfied. We don't necessarily have to be super full, but I'm feeling satisfied, which again, there could be physiological satisfaction and emotional. So if you're eating, quote, diet food, that might not leave you emotionally satisfied. You might be hungry an hour later. But yes, you would then maybe get through a few hours and then be like, oh, it's lunchtime. Maybe you think about food a little bit. I mean, look, food is more than fuel. We know that, right? There's a social aspect, there's a culture aspect. So I think depending on your environment also, like are you in an office with food constantly around you? You have a candy jar in front of you. Like all of these could also give you kind of like those thoughts related to food also. You know, we don't live in a bubble where we're just like, I'm only gonna work for a few hours and then I'm gonna think about food. But it'll definitely be quieter for the person that is not having that food noise and is eating regularly throughout the day, food that is satisfying and nourishing.

[00:39:06:18 - 00:39:15:05]
 In your clinical experience, how many people use food as an emotional support system? Most.

[00:39:16:17 - 00:45:14:17]
 Literally, I mean, what I typically say is I don't know somebody who has ever not turned to food at least once, right? For a coping mechanism or a coping tool. And I like to normalize that because there's, you know. That's a good point. Yeah, everybody does it at some point or another. The problem becomes when it's your only coping tool, right? So turning to food sometimes when you're emotional is totally fine, we all do it. So, but if it's your only coping tool, like it's the only tool in your toolbox that can become problematic just like alcohol, right? People turn to alcohol sometimes to cope, fine. But is it your go-to? Are you doing it on most days that could be problematic? And or it becomes problematic if it causes distress, right? If it is causing you to have distress, you're beating yourself up over it, that shame, that guilt, it becomes a cycle, then it's also problematic. Yeah. I know a big part of CBT is giving people exercises and homework to go do. At least that's my novice opinion of what I have several friends that are CBT therapists. So if you were to give somebody who says, I think about food all the time, I don't wanna go on the drugs, I use it for my emotional support system. Is there any kind of action items or homework they can do to start to go into a self inquiry to unwind that? Yeah, and the first thing would be, I would acknowledge that awareness that they already have. Right? Like, wow, like I'm turning to food, when I'm feeling emotional, what can I do? Right? So kind of give that positive reinforcement that that's a great first step that a lot of people don't really realize. So that's great. And then what I would say is, the next time you catch yourself turning to food, I want you to pause and check in with yourself. And you can ask yourself a few questions. It can be like, when is the last time that I ate? Right? Because if you ate an hour ago, that's gonna give you a different message than if you ate three hours ago. Maybe you're physiologically hungry and chocolate really sounds good to you right now. Right? Right. So kind of like, when's the last time I ate? What did I eat? Was it satisfying enough? Not just was it quantity enough? Was it satisfying? Lots of my clients would tell me they had like grilled chicken and broccoli or a boring salad. And then an hour later, they're craving chocolate. I'm like, of course you are. Right? That wasn't satisfying enough. And then I would also ask them, what's really going on? Right? Are you bored? Are you stressed? Are you upset? Did you have a hard day at work? Right? To kind of identify that emotion with it. Because what tends to happen is, if you're physiologically hungry and the emotional piece is on top of it, it's actually gonna be really hard to stop the emotional eating in the moment. In the moment, yeah. If you're not physiologically hungry, you're satisfied and you're emotional, it's gonna be easier to stop it. And then what can we do instead? Right? Like you acknowledge, I'm really stressed. I had a rough day. Then you could say, okay, do I really want this? Right? Do you really want the whatever it is? Because a key is the thought that follows the behavior is actually more important than the behavior itself. Ooh. What I mean by that is it's not about the chocolate. It's not about the cookie. It's not about the food. It's actually about what you're gonna say to yourself after. So if you can go into it saying, I had a really rough day and I really want this ice cream, you're gonna accept it. You're gonna have it. You're gonna feel in control. You're gonna stop probably. But if you go into it impulsively, you have a rough day, but you're just like, say like really eating the food quickly, not mindfully, probably you're gonna feel guilty about it afterwards. Beat yourself up. That negative self-talk is gonna lead to shame and guilt and lead to then another behavior. Yes. So it's the thought that follows the behavior that actually determines the next thing. So if you're aware of that thought, then you can, it's like a chain reaction. Exactly. You can stop the next thought that tells you something worse and then a next thought that tells you something even worse than that. Exactly. So if you, what I often say to my clients is, if you really want it, have it. But sit down, plate it, mindfully eat it and enjoy it. If you're eating over the counter, if you're impulsively eating, you're mindlessly eating, you don't feel in control. And then most of the time, the negative thoughts start. So if you can go into it with this acceptance that I really want this and I'm gonna eat it, who cares, enjoy it, move on. Right, right. And it's the resistance to the behavior that you just did that also keeps perpetuating the negative thoughts. Exactly, right. Have you found clinically in your practice that a lot of people are taught poor food habits as a child? Absolutely. Like I was raised by a health food nut and so everything in our house we had to read, I mean, my mom taught us how to read labels the minute we could read. And we weren't allowed to have any sugar in the house. And she taught me incredible principles of nutrition. She also was a chronic dieter. And she talked all the time about how she was on a diet. And then when we would have a bad day, I would come home and she'd say, "I'm gonna make you a meal." And it took me until my 20s to realize, oh my God, I've linked food with mother's love. And it actually was through fasting. So many people misread fasting as a tool, but it was through fasting when I actually took food out for a temporary period of time that I could see that mirror of, oh, I feel like I'm not going to be loved because I'm using food as mother's love. Wow.

[00:45:16:04 - 00:48:34:13]
 And that was also a key moment in my brain. She was a hot moment, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you do when somebody, it goes all the way back and food has been used as punishment and food has been used as love and food has been used to push down our emotions. Like it's so complex. Yeah. And how do we unwind that? Yeah, and I like to remind people that we know more now than we knew then. Yeah, good, well said. Because again, I have so many clients that will blame their parents. And I'm like, we can't blame your parents. We can blame society, right? But we can't blame your parents. That's what they were taught, right? Like people joke about like the clean plate club, right? Like we were brought up as like, you finish what's on your plate. My kids know, you eat until your fall, they're satisfied. It's all right that there's leftovers, you'll have them tomorrow, you know? It's fine. But I think that's important to first acknowledge that we can't necessarily put blame on our parents or our childhood. But I think it's a big aha moment for a lot of people because a lot of people that do have poor relationships with food or their body, it probably did stem from those messages either from their parents in their household and or the outside world. But again, because that was the message and that's what we knew at the time. We also thought calories in calories out, move more, eat less. We know more now, we know differently. So I think that first thing is that aha moment, that awareness and then like, okay, what works for me? Yeah. Right? What do I need right now, right? And then to separate and maybe again, those reframes, right? Like for you, I would say like, you know, maybe identify other ways that people show you love, right? Right. These sides through food. Like let's identify, you know, well, the hug, the this, the phone call, the text messages, the check-ins, all these other things also can equal love to kind of try to take food out of that equation and kind of separate it a little bit. And then again, going back to this idea, that food is fuel and so much more on top of that, right? But it's hard because many of us were brought up, even today, I think a lot of people are still being brought up with this idea that like, treats are rewards or you get this, you know. Yeah, right. I mean, you do this and I'll give you ice cream later. But if we could try to separate that, right? Food is food. That's it. And not labeling food as good or bad or a treat or not a treat. I like to think of it as some foods have more nutrients than others, some make us feel healthier, some are gonna help us get stronger, but there's a place for all of them, unless you have a sensitivity or an allergy, of course. I think that's a big reframe from people who look at a meal and say, what am I gonna eat that's gonna taste good? What I just heard in that is you're looking at food as how it is it going to fuel me so I can get through the day. And then if you change that perspective from, I'm just gonna eat what tastes good.

[00:48:35:15 - 00:54:00:13]
 Then you change the mechanism in which you use food, then you can change the behaviors that follow that. Exactly, yeah. And I think it's also okay to, I want people to eat food that tastes good at the same time. Well, good food, I mean, healthy food can taste amazing. I love vegetables. I think they're so tasty to me. But I agree, but it's important to think of how it's gonna make you feel also. So I actually, I feel like every night, I say this to my son, for instance, I'm like, well, let's check in with your belly. Whenever he's jumping to the second, he's like, can I have seconds? I'm like, you didn't even finish firsts yet. I'm like, let's just finish what you're eating or eat when you're ready, and then we'll check in with your belly and see how you feel. If your belly thinks it wants more, we'll eat a little more. If your belly thinks it needs a break, we'll take a break. So let's not jump ahead. So again, there's so much to food, but it's gonna make us feel a certain way. I know when I overeat or eat food that doesn't have proper nutrients, I feel like crap. And that doesn't feel good. And sometimes though, the tricky part is, people sometimes know that, and it's still hard to change the behavior. That's where it gets a little tricky. How many people do you see that are just eating unconsciously? I think a lot of people. Most of them, right? I think that, if they're listening to this conversation, I think that would be the biggest takeaway is be intentional. Absolutely, and the best way to start doing that is by plating your food, sitting down at a table or a countertop, but sitting, not standing over the counter, not eating out of the bag, plating your food, sitting down and taking slow bites. I tend to tell people it's really hard and it sounds so silly, but by slowing down, what I mean is, if this was your utensil, I would say take a bite, put it down, chew, chew, chew, until there's nothing left in your mouth, and then you pick it up again, if that's a sandwich or an apple or the utensil, because it's gonna force you to slow down. And when we do that, we actually enjoy the taste of the food better, we enjoy the whole experience better. And then oftentimes what happens is people actually eat a little bit less and feel satisfied sooner if they eat slower. One of the more profound things I've done with, because, and again, I'm just gonna say, I was overweight as a child, I grew up and was taught to be an emotional eater by my mom, I love my mom, she's still alive, and this is no blame, but it was just a habit that both my sister and I really had to overcome. And one of the more powerful things that I did is I remember when my kids were little, we got the opportunity to buy a whole cow, one whole cow that had been killed, and I'm sorry to the vegans that are listening, but it filled our freezer to eat from the same animal every single meal. We would have conversations about the animal with the kids, there was an appreciation, we started giving thanks to the animal for giving its life. I love that. I changed the way I looked at food just because I wasn't buying it in a little package that I don't know where it came from. I love that, and I'm kind of giggling inside at the same time because it actually brings back a childhood memory for me that I forgot about. I grew up in a very small town in Maryland, and my parents also bought a cow, and we had a cow in the freezer as well. And I totally forgot about that until you just said that, but it's so true if we can bring back that appreciation. Again, it's what's so easily accessible now. You're just going to the, I mean, I live in New York City, so you just go into the local bodega, you pick up whatever you want off the shelf, but people lose that aspect of you have to go to the farm, and you have to cut the vegetables, all of that, which I do believe bringing back whole foods, having a diet that's more substance with whole foods can give us that appreciation, even having to wash the vegetables and cutting them, I think for kids is super helpful to involve them in that process as opposed to, let's just open a bag and start eating. Yeah, and that's another big problem that we have here in America is everybody's eating out. And so there's no care for your food, and so it just perpetuates this dysfunctional relationship with food that we have. So I also have found farmers markets. We now shop, we go to the same farmers markets, we talk to the farmers, we know them, we talk about how they've grown the food and made the food. And when I sit down to eat it, I have a deeper appreciation because I know who was behind it. Yeah, I love that. It's so meaningful that I think that whole experience just gives you a new found appreciation for food. Yeah, it's really been a powerful way to come back to the art of food and appreciation. What do you think of the scale? What, so many women pop on the scale and judge the day, judge themselves based off of that number. Is it helpful or harmful?

[00:54:01:18 - 00:54:05:00]
 So it's a complicated question.

[00:54:06:09 - 00:55:17:03]
 If I had to give an easy answer, I would say harmful. But what I'm gonna add to that is it's data if you use it properly, right? I think it can be, it can be a data point. It can be. It doesn't tell the whole story though. And for most people, that's the part that way I said, if I had to give an easy answer, I would say it's harmful because it doesn't tell the whole story. I think if somebody can step on the scale and acknowledge, yup, I'm up a few pounds because I ate out last night and I ate salty food and I did XYZ and move on with our day, fine. It's a data point. It kind of gives them that, oh yeah, I ate out last night. All right, no big deal, data point. But unfortunately, most people can't do that. And the scale gives us a number that for most people is now tied to their self worth. And it tells them what to do, right? Like most people will look at it and be like, oh, I gained weight, now I need to restruct or I need to watch what I'm eating. I always joke, I wish you could step on the scale and it would stay strong or it would say happy. Oh my God, wouldn't that be great? I know, like yes, I am strong today.

[00:55:18:13 - 00:55:24:13]
 You need to invent that scale. Somebody needs to invent that scale. I know, it would really be life changing

[00:55:25:13 - 00:58:30:10]
 because I mean, really, cover up the number, just put strong on it, put happy on it, whatever. But I think if people are going to use it as a data point and talk to your doctor about it and understand what it means and maybe tie it with other things in your life, right? Like look at your behaviors, look at your lab work. It is a data point in the big picture. But overall, it doesn't really tell us anything else. So it can be pretty icky. I think for people and I try to tell people, let's first work on the relationship that they have with themselves and food. And if there's other measures, you're gonna, most people know if they gained weight too. Yeah, that's what I, my scale broke like 10 years ago and I decided to use how I feel and how I fit in my clothes. I was just gonna say the clothes are a better indicator. And does it really matter if you gained five pounds or 10 pounds? No, you know that your clothes don't fit. Okay, that's an indicator. That's also a data point, right? So I think it gets, because everyone thinks that they have this ideal body weight or they have this goal in their mind. They're going, yeah. And again, that goal keeps moving. And then what I often say is, whatever that ideal weight is in your head, what if you step on this scale and you lost weight if you need to lose weight or you're intending to lose weight? And it's not quite there yet. Your brain is gonna tell you, I failed. I didn't meet my goal. But really, maybe the goal was to get healthier, to start eating more fruits and vegetables. Maybe you're doing all of that, but the scale isn't there yet, right? So again, I think we really need to go back to what's my goal? What am I trying to really accomplish here? Right. The scale is probably not the answer. No, that's why I love what this woman said to me, this 70-some year old woman was like, I realized, oh, the goal is to love living in my body. And it changed the way I looked at all my health habits. And I asked myself every day when I get up, I'm like, do I still love living in this body? I love that. What else is this, what is this body doing that I don't love? And it really changed me. I mean, this one seven year old woman changed the way I thought about my own body. Yeah, I hope she hears this. I know, I hope so too. I mean, this was a while ago. And I did see her in my neighborhood often, and I would always go back and thank her because it really changed my-- I love that. One thing that I've sat with so many women who have had challenges losing weight, and for whatever reason, everybody wants to be the weight they were in high school. What is that? Right. Yes, thank you. I'm like, what are you doing? You're trying to be 16 again? Right. And again, that's where we have to go back and kind of accept we're in a different phase of our life. We aren't supposed to be the size we were when we were younger. Thank you. We are growing. We are supposed to grow.

[00:58:31:23 - 00:59:00:15]
 Our bodies change also, unfortunately. I mean, hormones change. All these things happen. That is natural. That's being human and having a human body. Those things are going to happen. But that idea or that expectation that we should be able to fit into those clothes or be that size or shape or number on the scale is really setting people up for failure and making people so disappointed when it's really just unrealistic. Right.

[00:59:02:01 - 00:59:18:04]
 I mean, again, after I heard it enough times, I was like, what exactly is this situation that we've got going here? What do you think about menopausal women? Because this is a real-- a lot of my audience is over 40.

[00:59:19:07 - 00:59:22:08]
 You just start gaining weight for no particular reason.

[00:59:23:12 - 01:00:48:13]
 And it's really frustrating. And what would you say to that woman? Like, how do we emotionally help her? Yeah. So I like to first acknowledge that it's hard. I mean, hormones only so much is happening to your system, to your body. And what worked for you before is not necessarily going to work now. And that's a big kind of aha moment for people because everyone thinks the first thought becomes, well, why isn't it working now? It used to work. I used to just do XYZ. But it's not necessarily going to be that easy. And it's not going to work because your body is changing. You're going through a different phase of life. And that I actually would say to that person, too, to go to your doctor. You know, talk to them about what you're going through and your symptoms. And explain this to them. And maybe get tested and see if your hormones are kind of out of whack, so to say. And if there's something hormonally that you can do. And not to throw the health behaviors out the window, either, right? It's still important to be making healthy-ish choices, to be moving your body, to be hydrating in all of those things. But you're probably not going to get the same results that you did before. And again, it's not your fault. Our bodies are supposed to go through this. Right.

[01:00:49:21 - 01:02:11:16]
 I know there's a piece of-- you bring up a really good point, because we have this looks-maxing concept that's in the culture right now. And what I'm concerned about between the prevalence of HRT, which I'm not opposed to-- I just don't think it's one size fits all-- and the desire for every doctor to write a prescription to a menopausal woman for a weight loss drug, and testosterone becoming a very popular HRT drug for women, that there's now this message that somehow you can keep your youth if you lean into these drugs. Right. What do you think of that? So-- and you're right. We hear it all the time. I feel like everybody I know is either on a GLP-1 or HRT. Right. Almost everybody. But yes, it's-- A lot, yeah. Yeah. And again, the good part of this is-- I love that people are talking about it. I 1,000% agree. That's the good part. My friends are all talking about the hormonal changes and the weight gain and how frustrating it is. And if they're on HRT or if they're not, great. Let's keep normalizing all of that. And I think we have to think-- again, we're all unique individuals with different bodies, with different medical histories, with different psychological histories as well.

[01:02:12:18 - 01:02:59:05]
 And different medications are not made for everybody. And if we are going to go on a certain medication, I always like to say you want to have the proper support also. That could be having different health care professionals, different-- maybe an interdisciplinary team with dieticians and all these things, and or just a person who really knows how to prescribe and what they're doing. Because again, everybody seems to be prescribing all these medications if they're true experts and or educated and knowledgeable in that area or not. So again, it can be scary. I think we have to be our own health advocates. We need to go to the doctors with the questions. We need to get second opinions. Again, also turn inward. Did your behaviors change? I mean--

[01:03:00:09 - 01:05:15:02]
 Stress goes up. You're less stress resilient. Exactly. It's not just like, oh, wait, let me get a medication. Let's look at what's changing. Are you more stressed? Have you been turning to food for emotional eating? Are you depressed? All of these things. Let's look at the whole picture because we're whole people, not just bodies. Look at the whole person, and then we can figure out what works best. Again, I had a client this morning, and I was like, OK, I want you to see your medical provider and work with me because we might be missing something. Get your labs done. Let's work together as a team. And so many people are just so quick to get the medication, get the prescription. And they might be missing the fact that they're having a really stressful time in their life. Yeah, there's something new that's emerging in the culture called a menopause doula. And have you heard of it? Briefly. I think maybe a few people mentioned it. And it's just because there's no one answer. So the menopause doula helps you navigate the health care system, helps you figure out lifestyle, helps you put all of it together. Yeah, and I think it's a really interesting concept. And it's sort of telling of two things. One, we have a health care system that is built off of specialists that don't talk to each other. So I love your idea of go talk-- can the therapist and the medical doctor talk together? That would be amazing. But I don't know. I haven't seen that happen too often. Everybody's so busy. Yeah, so I used to work in a bariatric surgery department for years. Oh, perfect. Yeah, so that was the model in bariatric surgery. I was the in-house psychologist. We had in-house dieticians. We had nurse practitioners. We had the surgeon. We had medical providers. And we were a team, and we discussed. And I remember clients would come to me, and I would be like, hold on. And I literally would pick up the phone with my client in my office and call the dietician down the hall and be like, hey, can you stop by real quick? We have a question. And it was amazing. But unfortunately, most medical providers don't work that way unless they are embedded in this kind of system.

[01:05:16:04 - 01:06:06:16]
 In a perfect world, I think everybody should have that, say, patient advocate that's kind of tying all the pieces together, and everybody's talking. But you said it. Nobody has the time for it. Nobody has time. Yeah, which is unfortunate. Which then the patient loses. Exactly. And I think that's where then I'm going to say the patient can speak up. And just be like, hey, can I get you in touch with my doctor? Or can you give me something in writing to take to my other doctor? I see people all the time, take your labs now to this doctor and tell them in your list of prescriptions. Because that's another thing. People are prescribing without knowing what everybody else-- what other doctors are prescribing. But you really have to look at everybody as a whole person, look at all of the medical diagnoses in history, look at all the medications, and then decide what their best plan of action is.

[01:06:07:18 - 01:06:31:19]
 And I believe that you can create that team. Absolutely. I really do. I do too. You just have to fight for yourself. I think work. Yeah, you've said it a couple of times where we're not living in the years that we used to be living in, where doctors had more time to spend with you. They don't have that based off because of insurance and all other reasons.

[01:06:32:22 - 01:18:16:08]
 But you can fight for that. You can interview your doctor. They should be somebody who is on your team, not somebody who is controlling you. Exactly. Yeah. And right, I like to think of it as you can create that team for yourself. Yeah. Right? Like even if they're not talking, you get the information, you bring it. And absolutely, they have to be on your team. Meaning if you can't trust your doctor and you can't come in and tell them exactly what's going on, they really can't do their job and help you. So find the doctors that you can trust, that you can be comfortable with, that you can share information with and to. And go in with your questions. Ask the questions. Get the answers. Bring them to the other doctor. Yeah. Yeah. I really love that approach. And I want to encourage everybody listening. Stand in your power and do that. What do you think about social media as a way to receive health information? It's where most people are going these days. I love you're asking me all the greatest questions that I love talking about. Yeah, great. Because this one burns my brain, too. Yes. So I mean, social media is social media. It's not the health care system. Yes, right. Thank you. Yes. I do like to encourage more health care professionals to get on social media. Because if people are sharing health information that don't have the degrees and the expertise, at least then the people that do can share that information. But that's also challenging within itself. But I think social media is great to maybe get an idea and then be like, how does that relate to me? How can I look into this? How can I bring that to my doctor and ask if this is going to work for me as good for me? I love it when my clients say to me, I heard about this on TikTok. I'm like, first of all, I'm so glad you brought it to me. First-- Thank you for telling me your source. Yes. But I'm like, I'm glad you didn't just do it. They come to me and ask, what do you think about this? Do that. Get the information. Ask yourself, how can this relate to me? Bring it to your doctor and ask questions. Because what we hear on social media, it has to be quick. It has to be general. There's blanket statements. They don't know your medical history. They don't know anything about you. What works for one person may not work for you. Right, right. Yeah, and I mean, I'm delivering health information on social media. So I'm acutely aware of the constraints of it. And one of the things that I have been saying to people is, if we're going to go to social media for our health information, we've got to get off the short form. You can't judge your health habits off a 90 second reel. So we got to go back to reading or listening to books. We've got to listen to podcasts. Even on YouTube, I can do a 20, 30 minute video and give a little more context that will allow somebody to make the best decision. So I've personally found that the platform really matters. And what I see trip women up is they make a decision off a reel or off a carousel post. Yeah, yeah. And I think going back to the source also is really important. Who are you getting this information from? Who is saying this? Do your research. Look up the person and all of that. And does it sit with you? Make your own intuitive decision. There's a lot of shaming on social media. If you don't do this, then you are going to lose muscle as you age or whatever it is. And I tell my following, you want people who are going to offer you to make your own opinion. And if they're going to tell you if you don't do this, then it's wrong. That's not somebody that you want to follow. Right. And they're probably trying to sell something. That's right. Yeah. Right. And then, oh my god. So then there's all that. Like we don't even-- we have no regulation around somebody telling you something because they're paid to tell you something. And it's not just supplementation. Big Pharma is doing this now too, paying people to speak up on socials. And it is gotten-- It's super scary. It's so scary. Again, that's why I love it when my clients say to me, I heard this, what do you think about it? And I'm like, let's unpack it. Let's talk about it. Let's see what it is about it that even interests you. Like let's see if this is something that might be an option for you. Most of the time, there are quick fixes that sound good in the moment because people are sensitive and vulnerable when they're scrolling and they're looking for quick fixes. And most of the time, if we really take the time to be like, is that something that could work for me? What do I really need? It's probably not that supplement or that medication. I had a really interesting experience because I do a YouTube Live every Tuesday afternoon. And a woman asked me about psyllium husks. And she said, psyllium husks are trending right now. Everybody's talking about it. What do you think of that? Now, the week before, I had been researching what videos to do. And I saw all these people talking about psyllium husks. And I was like, why are we talking about-- why is psyllium husks? You know, it's just fiber. Just eat some fiber. But what happens-- and I'm just calling all of us out on social media-- is once the algorithm picks up, this is popular. Every other person that does that exact thing with a new twist, they're now in the algorithm. So the other problem-- and as somebody is that you have to hold your value system and say, do I want to deliver this? Is this going to be helpful? Or am I doing this because the algorithm will reward me? And I'm trying to pull the veil back so that they can see that, so that they don't get sucked into a trend that is only there because the algorithm wanted it. Right. Isn't that crazy? It's so crazy. And it's so unfortunate. I don't know where we're going, honestly. Some days I'm like, where are we going with human behavior? We've outsourced our power. And how do we pull it back? Which is a question that I have for you. If we go 10, 20 years down the road, we've got more weight loss drugs. We have more people with the looks maxing, and more people jumping on every hormone therapy that they possibly can. How do we create a different experience in life for people? Because that one scares me. It scares me too. And I think it needs to go back to us taking ownership. And understanding. Yes. I was just going to say in turn-- Sorry. I just get revved up about this. I'm like, ah. Yeah. No, but it really needs to be us turning inward. And again, pausing. Because we're getting fed these messages. We could think of food noise. Here we could just talk about noise. There's noise. We're getting fed these messages. And we need to pause and be like, do I really need this? Do I really want this? What's really going on? Because I tend to say this all the time, but what we really need is to go back to the basics. We need to be more mindful about our eating. We need to stay more hydrated. We need to move our bodies more. We need to get better sleep. And we need to focus on stress management. That's what we need. And none of that costs money. Yeah, so you have to pay for food. But still, it's not adding much. It's literally going back to the basics. And I think if people can do that and communicate with your health care provider-- because yes, there are illnesses and diseases and different situations, obviously, that come up that need attention and medication as well. But if we can go back to our basics and learn to turn inward and listen to our bodies, so slow down enough to listen, I think we could just swipe away all that other noise. That's right. I don't need that. I don't need that. Nope, I'm good. I got sleep last night. I don't need a supplement for that. Right. But we're just hearing too much noise that's telling us, you're not getting enough sleep. You're not wearing the weighted vest. You're not doing this. You need the magnesium. It's too much. And people are overwhelmed. Yeah. And there's this new theory. The new phrase coming out is we're over-optimizing. Yes. Have you heard that? Yeah. We're over-optimizing. And I think we're doing a lot of things for performative wellness also. Yeah, right. It looks good to do this. How's it going to perform on social media? Write all of these things. But again, no, we need to go back to the basics and we lost that somewhere. Yeah, bingo. Well, that leads me to my last question that is new for this new upgraded version. What does the phrase live like a girl mean to you? You know, it means to me to summarize everything we said, which is to be able to turn inward and to really understand what we need and to take it. Like to listen to what we need and to actually take what we need and to, in a way, do less, right? Instead of adding more and overhauling our whole life, just thinking, OK, how am I feeling right now and what do I really need? And by actually listening to that, I think it's living like a girl. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a bravado that we had when we were girls that somewhere along the line, we lost as the world warped our brains and changed us to move away from that inner place. That's really beautifully said. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, I love talking to you, Dr. Rachel. This was a very fun conversation because I'm in the trenches doing the lifestyle and I see the emotional wounds that are coming up. And that's not my expertise. And I want to teach people what quality food looks like. How you want to eat it and all the good things you can do that are simple. So it's really fun to have somebody who's sitting in the trenches with the emotional aspect. So let me just say thank you for the conversation. Of course, thank you. I absolutely loved the conversation. I'm so glad we did that. Yeah. Where can people find you? And talk about your new book because you have a whole chapter on this in your book that I want to encourage everybody to go read. I do. Thank you. So yes, my new book is When Life Happens. And there is an entire chapter on body image. And it's really utilizing what we talked about, cognitive behavior therapy, and providing people with the tools to help them navigate when life happens as we go through different phases of life. So it really, I think, does speak to your audience in terms of going from menopause and just different phases of our life. And then people can find me on most social media platforms as Dr. Rachel NYC. And my book is at whenlifehappensbook.com, or pretty much anywhere people like to buy their books. Yeah. And I love that Pilar Guzman did your-- My forward. Your forward. She interviewed me for Age Like a Girl. And we have a weird history together because we went to rival high schools in LA at the same time. Yeah, but we just had a beautiful conversation. And what a gift to have her write your forward. So congrats on that. Thank you. Yes, she's wonderful as well. Yeah. Well, thank you, Dr. Rachel. I love the conversation. Everybody go buy the book. Go follow her. And let's roll up our sleeves and work on many of the things we talked about. So thank you for that. Thank you.

[01:18:18:00 - 01:18:34:22]
 Thank you so much for joining me in today's episode. I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it, we'd love to know about it. So please leave us a review. Share it with your friends. Let me know what your biggest takeaway is.