WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the Silvercore podcast.

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Silvercore has been providing its
members with the skills and knowledge

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necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years.

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And we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.

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If you enjoy the positive
and educational content.

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We provide, please let others
know by sharing, commenting, and

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following so that you can join in on
everything that Silvercore stands for.

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If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the

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Silvercore club and community,
visit our website at silvercore.

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ca.

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Today's guest is a wildlife health
biologist who for the last 17 years

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has been working with the BC provincial
government wildlife health program.

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She's involved with priority disease
surveillance programs such as bovine

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tuberculosis and chronic wasting disease,
which is the subject of today's talk.

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Welcome to the Silvercore
podcast, Kate Nelson.

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Cait Nelson: Hi, Travis.

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Thanks for having

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Travis Bader: me.

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You know, we've talked a lot
in the past, back and forth.

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I'm really happy to have
you on the podcast here.

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It's a unfortunate, the circumstances,
which is precipitating the chat

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that we're seeing CWD chronic
wasting disease in British Columbia.

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Um, you know, it was what, depending
on when this podcast releases,

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it's going to be a little bit of
a span is about a week ago or so

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that we started seeing all of the.

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Announcements coming through back country
hunters and anglers and the BC Wildlife

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Federation and in the newspapers that
chronic wasting disease has now been

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spotted and confirmed in British Columbia.

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Cait Nelson: Yeah, that's right.

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We, uh, the Canadian Food Inspection
Agency, which is the, the ref,

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um, the reference laboratory
confirmed, um, the first two cases.

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Uh, and they came, um, from deer
samples from our Kootenai region.

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So that was the first time
CWU was detected in, in BC.

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So yeah, we're about a week in now.

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Travis Bader: I couldn't believe
the amount of, uh, questions

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that I've been getting.

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We put up a poll on social media saying
that I'm going to be having a talk.

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And do you have questions?

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Holy crow.

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The number of people that have
been inundating us with a lot of

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club members and people through
social media and, uh, friends are

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saying like, can we find out this?

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Can we find out that?

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And a lot of them are the same.

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I can only imagine.

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What's it like in your office right now?

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Are you getting inundated?

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Cait Nelson: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Short answer is yes.

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Um, it's, it's been very busy.

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Uh, but it's also really great to see,
um, the interest and tend to see all

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of these groups and individuals and,
you know, communities that are reaching

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out to say, how can we help, how can
we support, and, um, so that's been.

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really a wonderful thing to be going
through, you know, if it has been super

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intense and of course it's, it's, it's,
um, Really, uh, too bad, you know, nobody

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wanted this event to happen, but we have
been anticipating it and preparing for it.

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And so it, um, you know, it's, it's,
it's a sad day for sure that we've now

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detected this disease in BC, but, um,
I'm sort of energized, I guess, by, By

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the incredible community and support,
um, that we're receiving already.

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Um, you know, just with people
reaching out and lots of questions.

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And I hope that, you know, really
appreciate the invitation today, um,

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to have a chat with you because, uh,
you know, this is a platform where

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we can reach a lot of people and hope
to address some of those questions

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because it's hard for, for us to.

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You know, actually connect with all
of those people, you know, directly.

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Um, and we know there's a
lot of questions out there.

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So, so hopefully by doing this,
we can, we can help share the

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information more effectively.

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Yeah, and

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Travis Bader: we were talking
off air as well here about, uh,

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the release of this episode.

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So I've got some planned episodes that
are looking at releasing and I'm, uh,

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looking at bumping that timeline up
based on the fact that there's so much

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new information that's coming to light.

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So what we talk about here is
going to be fairly timely from

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when we're talking about it, but.

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People who are interested in
this and they want to learn more.

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They should be checking out what the,
uh, I'm sure the provincial government's

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got a website that they can re
referring to, to see all the updates.

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Yeah,

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Cait Nelson: no, absolutely.

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Yeah.

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We're really in the, the
early stages of this.

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Um, again, we had, you know, put a
lot of work into preparing for this.

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Um, running through scenarios, what kind
of resources we're going to need and what

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kind of expertise we're going to need.

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Um, so thankfully we had a lot of
that in place so that we could hit the

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ground running, but this really is, um,
you know, uh, information gathering.

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We want to make sure that we
understand what's going on

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on the landscape right now.

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And we're pulling those, those
key facts together so that we can.

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You know, make informed decisions
and science based decisions moving

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forward, but yeah, we're we're really
in in the thick of it right now.

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And as more information is coming in
daily, and it will, it will provide a

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clearer picture of what's, um, what's
unfolding, you know, on the landscape

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and so, yeah, yeah, it was sort of, um,
this is sort of a snapshot, but every

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day there's new information coming in and
that's gonna, um, Give us a more complete

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picture of the scope and scale of this.

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Right.

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Travis Bader: So what I'll do just
to keep this a bit more evergreen

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in front of people's minds is we can
communicate afterwards as things progress.

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If there's big announcements that come
out, I'll throw it up in the show notes.

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So I'll put it into the, on the website
and the YouTube and in the description.

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So people at least have
links where they can.

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Click and check out what the
new information on this is.

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Yeah.

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So

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Cait Nelson: we do have a, we do have a
BCCWD website and that's going to be a

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good resource, um, for people to check
out or we're going to be posting, um, new

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information and, and some communication
stuff, uh, all of our test results as

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they come in, we'll go up on our website.

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So, so yeah, we'll make sure
everybody has that link.

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Travis Bader: Perfect.

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Um, well, let's start at the beginning.

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What is, what do we know?

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What do we know about
chronic wasting disease?

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Where did it start?

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What does it do?

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Um, how does it spread?

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Cait Nelson: Okay.

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So, so chronic wasting disease is a
infectious disease that affects species

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in the deer family, um, or cervids.

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And so that includes deer,
elk, moose, and caribou.

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Um, it's fatal in all cases.

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When an animal becomes infected,
they will die from the disease.

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And we still don't have
any vaccines available.

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So this is a fatal disease.

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Um, it's caused by an abnormal
misshapen protein called a prion.

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And so, uh, you know, normal proteins
in our bodies, they, they all have, you

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know, different functions and they're,
um, designed to sort of, Complete

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that function and they'll, they'll
break down into their component parts

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and kind of get recycled in the body.

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But these, these disease causing
prions, um, for whatever reason, they

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don't break down, they accumulate in
the tissue and they can be present in

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all tissues of the animal, but they
really tend to concentrate and, and,

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um, increasingly concentrate in the
central nervous system in the brain.

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And so what ends up happening is.

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a neurological disease.

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And so there's, there's damage to the
brain tissue that, um, that ultimately

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leads to the demise of that animal.

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And so, um, one of the tricky, well,
there's several tricky things about

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this disease, but one of them is
that, um, most animals that are.

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that test positive for the disease,
as we've seen in other places.

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Um, they don't actually
show, uh, outward symptoms.

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Those symptoms aren't
really always obvious.

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So a lot of animals that test positive are
healthy looking, hunter harvested animals.

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So I talk to hunters often that, you
know, they'll say they're so surprised

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that their animals tested positive.

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This is like B.

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C.

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hunters that have harvested animals in
Alberta or, you know, elsewhere where

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they've had this disease for a while.

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Um, or hunters in B.

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C.

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who I talk to and they say, No, I didn't
submit my My head for testing this

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year because the animal I harvested
was really healthy, looked really good.

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And so that's tricky because there's
no way to, um, often there's no way

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to tell just visually if an animal
is infected with this disease.

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And so it's, um, that's why
testing animals is so important.

00:09:09.904 --> 00:09:13.274
Um, but it also makes managing
the disease on the landscape a

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challenge because there's no,
um, you don't see sick animals.

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It's very rare to see sick animals
on the landscape, even in places like

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Alberta, where there's a really high
proportion of the animals are infected.

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Now, you just don't really see sick
animals on the landscape, so there's no

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signal for us that something's wrong.

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Um, so anyway, that's
a challenging aspect.

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Another challenging aspect of this
disease is, um, these disease causing

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Uh, prions or proteins, um, in an
infected animal, they'll actually shed

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the, the animal will shed these, these
prions through their saliva or other

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bodily fluids into the environment.

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They can also be shed.

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Uh, through carcasses that are
decomposing in the environment.

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And so that environmental contamination
aspect of this disease makes it super

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challenging to, um, to, to control
because not only do we have direct

00:10:11.545 --> 00:10:16.970
transmission between animals through
nose to nose contact, um, But there's

00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:22.200
contamination of the environment and,
and, um, these animals that are shedding

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again, they, they're infected with the
disease, but they don't really often

00:10:26.760 --> 00:10:28.370
show that those outward symptoms.

00:10:28.370 --> 00:10:30.889
So, so they can still be
shedding the disease, even though

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they don't appear to be sick.

00:10:32.949 --> 00:10:38.314
And so once these, these prions get
into the environment, Um, they'll

00:10:38.314 --> 00:10:42.925
remain there active and infectious
and could potentially expose other

00:10:42.925 --> 00:10:48.614
animals indirectly through, you know,
an animal, um, you know, consuming

00:10:48.684 --> 00:10:52.785
some vegetation or, you know, these
prions can be in the soil on plants

00:10:52.785 --> 00:10:55.294
and in water and things like that.

00:10:55.364 --> 00:11:02.055
And, um, they are very, these
prions are very, um, indestructible

00:11:02.064 --> 00:11:06.954
really, um, they're resistant to
heat, like burning and cooking.

00:11:07.155 --> 00:11:13.775
Doesn't, um, doesn't sort of deactivate
the pre, the protein, um, disinfectants,

00:11:13.865 --> 00:11:19.215
like, you know, other cleaning methods
won't, um, won't, you know, kind of

00:11:19.405 --> 00:11:21.164
neutralize them in the environment.

00:11:21.165 --> 00:11:24.865
And so it's, there's not really any
way to clean up those environments

00:11:24.865 --> 00:11:26.545
once they've been contaminated.

00:11:26.545 --> 00:11:30.345
And so then that becomes a site where
other animals can pick it up from.

00:11:31.430 --> 00:11:31.790
Yeah.

00:11:31.830 --> 00:11:31.980
So

00:11:32.160 --> 00:11:35.720
Travis Bader: this is kind of
like, if I'm not mistaken, like I

00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:39.850
remember 96, 97 and everyone was
mad cow disease is a big thing.

00:11:39.850 --> 00:11:44.819
And that's, I'm probably gonna
pronounce this wrong, but bovine

00:11:44.820 --> 00:11:45.233
Cait Nelson: spongiform encephalopathy.

00:11:45.233 --> 00:11:45.440
Yeah.

00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:45.853
Is that?

00:11:45.853 --> 00:11:46.059
Yeah.

00:11:46.059 --> 00:11:46.266
Yeah.

00:11:46.266 --> 00:11:47.830
Bovine spongiform encephalopathy.

00:11:47.869 --> 00:11:48.139
Yeah.

00:11:48.735 --> 00:11:49.665
Travis Bader: Encephalopathy.

00:11:49.695 --> 00:11:50.868
I knew I'd almost get it.

00:11:50.868 --> 00:11:51.185
Oh, you were very close.

00:11:51.455 --> 00:11:51.635
Yeah.

00:11:52.405 --> 00:11:55.285
And I, I remember I,
uh, I was 19 years old.

00:11:55.285 --> 00:11:58.615
I flew over to the UK and
this was all on the mind.

00:11:58.615 --> 00:12:00.725
Everyone's talking about
this mad cow disease.

00:12:00.825 --> 00:12:02.185
And I'm like, I'm not
going to eat any meat.

00:12:02.205 --> 00:12:05.595
And the first meal that I had
was at a friend's grandmother's

00:12:05.595 --> 00:12:06.959
house where I was staying was a.

00:12:08.050 --> 00:12:08.960
Roast beef dinner.

00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:09.550
I'm like, well, I

00:12:09.550 --> 00:12:11.430
Cait Nelson: can't, I can't,
I can't say no to eat this.

00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:13.030
Someone's grandma's made you that meal.

00:12:13.050 --> 00:12:13.540
Yeah.

00:12:14.160 --> 00:12:14.570
Totally.

00:12:14.950 --> 00:12:18.040
Travis Bader: And you know that
she put a lot of effort and it

00:12:18.040 --> 00:12:19.249
cost a bit and all the rest.

00:12:19.250 --> 00:12:20.580
And so I ate it gladly.

00:12:20.580 --> 00:12:23.850
And I thought, I guess I'm not giving
blood for the next few years because

00:12:24.210 --> 00:12:25.660
that's what the rules were around that.

00:12:26.280 --> 00:12:31.670
This, that, that'd be a prion sort
of, uh, infection within bovine.

00:12:31.700 --> 00:12:33.260
Is it pretty similar?

00:12:33.425 --> 00:12:35.235
To what we're seeing here in the service.

00:12:35.235 --> 00:12:35.625
Yeah.

00:12:35.685 --> 00:12:36.025
Cait Nelson: Yeah.

00:12:36.314 --> 00:12:41.454
And so, so BSC or mad cow disease is
another another type of prion disease.

00:12:41.894 --> 00:12:47.534
Um, they're part of this family of
diseases called, um, transmissible

00:12:47.535 --> 00:12:47.864
spongiform encephalopathies.

00:12:48.154 --> 00:12:48.564
So.

00:12:48.880 --> 00:12:51.360
They're, you know,
transmissible between animals.

00:12:51.420 --> 00:12:57.450
The spongiform actually, uh, describes
what the, the brain tissue looks like

00:12:57.450 --> 00:13:02.460
because when the prions accumulate in
the brain, um, it causes cell death and

00:13:02.460 --> 00:13:04.139
you actually get holes in the brain.

00:13:04.139 --> 00:13:07.939
And so that's where the spongiform, like
it actually has a sponge like appearance.

00:13:08.330 --> 00:13:09.970
And then encephalopathy just means it.

00:13:10.160 --> 00:13:11.689
you know, a disease of the brain.

00:13:12.089 --> 00:13:17.089
And so, um, this group of diseases,
prion diseases, include mad cow disease.

00:13:17.530 --> 00:13:21.520
There's also a prion disease in
sheep and goats called scrapie.

00:13:21.579 --> 00:13:22.910
People might have heard of that.

00:13:23.400 --> 00:13:25.790
Um, there are some human forms.

00:13:25.869 --> 00:13:30.329
Krutzfeldt Jakob disease is a prion
disease that, uh, occurs in humans.

00:13:30.760 --> 00:13:32.420
And, and there's a number of other ones.

00:13:32.819 --> 00:13:37.109
Um, so they're all caused by these
abnormal proteins called prions, part

00:13:37.109 --> 00:13:39.599
of this group of, of diseases, TSCs.

00:13:40.395 --> 00:13:45.405
But, um, but different, uh, prion
diseases are, are quite, um, they're

00:13:45.405 --> 00:13:46.785
quite different from each other.

00:13:47.125 --> 00:13:53.184
And so, um, for, you know, mad cow
disease, for example, is very different.

00:13:53.194 --> 00:13:58.104
Like you actually have to consume the
meat of the cattle to become infected.

00:13:58.104 --> 00:13:59.744
Those, those animals don't.

00:13:59.974 --> 00:14:02.055
don't shed the prion into the environment.

00:14:02.454 --> 00:14:04.425
Um, so they all have differences.

00:14:04.754 --> 00:14:09.624
They, they tend to have these very, um,
strong, what we call species barriers.

00:14:09.634 --> 00:14:12.984
So they don't cross between
species groups very readily.

00:14:13.415 --> 00:14:17.284
And so that's, you know, that's how we
know that with chronic wasting disease,

00:14:17.724 --> 00:14:22.949
um, In a natural environment, we don't
believe it will transfer to other, to

00:14:22.949 --> 00:14:27.399
other species like cattle or, you know,
other livestock or domestic animals.

00:14:27.649 --> 00:14:31.629
There's no evidence of that happening, so
they're, they're, you know, they're unique

00:14:31.629 --> 00:14:34.099
in that way to that, um, species group.

00:14:34.779 --> 00:14:39.109
Um, coming back to the human
health concern touched on with BSE.

00:14:39.545 --> 00:14:43.704
Um, there's no direct evidence
that chronic wasting disease

00:14:44.155 --> 00:14:46.584
can be transmitted to humans.

00:14:47.145 --> 00:14:52.485
As far as we know, there hasn't been
a, a documented case of CWD in, in

00:14:52.485 --> 00:14:56.575
a human, but there's still a lot we
don't know about these prion diseases.

00:14:56.625 --> 00:14:57.315
And so.

00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:01.510
I mean, we refer to the public health
folks for recommendations on this

00:15:02.020 --> 00:15:05.660
and, you know, coming from the World
Health Organization and all the way

00:15:05.660 --> 00:15:09.369
down to, you know, Health Canada
and our local public health folks.

00:15:09.900 --> 00:15:14.939
Um, their position is that we can't, the
risk of transmission to people might be

00:15:14.940 --> 00:15:16.740
low, but we can't rule it out completely.

00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:20.970
So they recommend a precautionary
approach and advise that any

00:15:20.970 --> 00:15:23.930
animal CWD should not be eaten.

00:15:24.910 --> 00:15:29.459
And so, you know, there, there definitely
are some human health concerns.

00:15:29.560 --> 00:15:35.600
Um, that's the information we have so far
is, is to, you know, be cautious about

00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:38.020
this because we just don't know for sure.

00:15:39.300 --> 00:15:41.939
Travis Bader: So that would be
called zoonotic if it transmits

00:15:41.939 --> 00:15:44.089
from a, an animal to a human, right?

00:15:44.140 --> 00:15:49.720
Like mad cow was able to make that
jump from an animal to a human.

00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:51.060
It's a zoonotic transmission.

00:15:52.535 --> 00:15:55.765
Um, have you seen that research in
the university, Calgary, a couple

00:15:55.765 --> 00:16:01.295
of really bright cookies started
putting human, um, um, I don't know,

00:16:01.325 --> 00:16:05.995
human, something within mice, human
proteins, even something in mice.

00:16:06.104 --> 00:16:11.124
And they're saying, hold on a second,
we're seeing in this lab base, not an

00:16:11.135 --> 00:16:16.855
actual from animal to human, but it's
affecting these human, um, proteins and

00:16:16.875 --> 00:16:23.245
you're going to correct me if I'm wrong,
but it's, it's, um, It's not presenting

00:16:23.245 --> 00:16:26.334
in the way that it would in the cervid,
it's presenting very differently.

00:16:26.365 --> 00:16:28.755
And a couple of years later,
have you, have you been

00:16:28.755 --> 00:16:29.194
Cait Nelson: following that?

00:16:29.195 --> 00:16:33.574
Uh, you know, a little bit, I'm not
super familiar with it, but I do, you

00:16:33.574 --> 00:16:38.615
know, I, I am familiar with some of
those studies that have looked at, you

00:16:38.615 --> 00:16:42.685
know, pushing that species barrier in a
research setting, whether it be with, um,

00:16:43.005 --> 00:16:48.015
you know, humanized mice or cervidized
mice, they can put like, you know, that.

00:16:48.800 --> 00:16:52.670
cervid kind of component in a, in
a research animal, like a rodent.

00:16:53.199 --> 00:16:58.689
Um, there's also been some studies
looking at, um, transmission of

00:16:58.699 --> 00:17:01.470
prion disease to non human primates.

00:17:02.069 --> 00:17:06.839
And that's where some of the uncertainty
has come from these, you know, we

00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:10.939
haven't seen it in a natural setting
or haven't, you know, documented

00:17:10.939 --> 00:17:15.069
this in a natural setting, but in
some of these research settings, um,

00:17:15.295 --> 00:17:19.665
the results, the findings of these
studies have been sort of inconsistent.

00:17:19.975 --> 00:17:23.665
And there, you know, there's a few
studies that where there was evidence

00:17:23.665 --> 00:17:29.404
that, um, you know, primates that
consumed CWD infected deer meat

00:17:29.605 --> 00:17:31.144
actually developed the disease.

00:17:31.805 --> 00:17:36.285
Um, but you know, other studies,
similar studies had different results

00:17:36.285 --> 00:17:38.294
in the end, so sort of inconsistent.

00:17:38.705 --> 00:17:45.154
Um, and so all, you know, all just kind of
cumulatively leading to some uncertainty

00:17:45.154 --> 00:17:49.595
around it and, and why, um, public health
advises us to just take a precautionary

00:17:49.595 --> 00:17:52.595
approach until we, we can understand this.

00:17:52.995 --> 00:17:54.385
More, more completely.

00:17:55.495 --> 00:17:56.024
Travis Bader: Right.

00:17:56.524 --> 00:18:00.194
I know a couple of friends over
in Alberta, they went and they

00:18:00.204 --> 00:18:06.044
harvested their, uh, a white tail
deer, butchered it, packed it in the

00:18:06.044 --> 00:18:08.224
freezer, heads off getting inspected.

00:18:08.235 --> 00:18:12.590
And then they get a note back
sometime later saying, It's

00:18:12.610 --> 00:18:14.580
got chronic wasting disease.

00:18:14.600 --> 00:18:18.160
We recommend that you take it to the
landfill, dump it all in the landfill.

00:18:18.810 --> 00:18:21.919
So they're pretty upset because now
they're out the money for the hunt.

00:18:21.959 --> 00:18:22.899
They're out their meat.

00:18:22.919 --> 00:18:28.139
They're out the tag because their tag
doesn't get, uh, reimbursed off of the,

00:18:28.139 --> 00:18:33.905
uh, the whole thing, from my understanding
and, um, Um, and I see that as one of

00:18:33.905 --> 00:18:38.345
the questions that we're getting a lot
of, um, number one was like, what is it?

00:18:38.345 --> 00:18:41.985
And we've talked a little bit about
that and how do we identify it?

00:18:42.004 --> 00:18:42.835
That was one.

00:18:42.865 --> 00:18:47.354
And I think you've kind of answered
that one in so far as you maybe,

00:18:47.374 --> 00:18:50.809
maybe if it's really progressed
down the way, but a lot of times.

00:18:51.090 --> 00:18:51.500
You don't.

00:18:51.510 --> 00:18:51.780
Yeah.

00:18:51.790 --> 00:18:55.540
Cait Nelson: Especially, especially
in hunter harvested animals, hunters

00:18:55.620 --> 00:18:59.070
are not going to be targeting
those sick looking animals, right?

00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:01.090
And so, yeah, yeah.

00:19:01.420 --> 00:19:02.730
Just visually you're right.

00:19:02.740 --> 00:19:03.430
You're correct.

00:19:03.520 --> 00:19:05.220
There's, there's no way to tell.

00:19:05.609 --> 00:19:09.220
Um, and so we, you know,
recommend and, and encourage

00:19:09.230 --> 00:19:10.740
hunters to get animals tested.

00:19:11.100 --> 00:19:13.400
Um, you know, one to
have that peace of mind.

00:19:13.750 --> 00:19:16.840
For the, you know, for them and,
and their family that's going to be

00:19:16.840 --> 00:19:21.260
consuming the meat, but for, for our
perspective, that information from that

00:19:21.260 --> 00:19:26.679
animal and understanding, um, you know,
providing that information to feed

00:19:26.679 --> 00:19:31.549
into our surveillance program so that
we have a, a, a better understanding

00:19:31.549 --> 00:19:33.439
of health of populations in BC.

00:19:33.870 --> 00:19:35.710
Um, every, every negative.

00:19:36.035 --> 00:19:39.955
Test that comes back is super valuable,
especially, you know, right now in

00:19:39.955 --> 00:19:44.795
this, in this scenario that we are
in, um, we've had two positive cases,

00:19:45.055 --> 00:19:50.775
but we are looking at hundreds of
negative cases, and that is just as

00:19:50.775 --> 00:19:54.955
valuable to look at on the landscape
where we've tested all these animals in

00:19:54.955 --> 00:19:59.469
this area, and, you know, we have good
confidence The disease is not there and

00:19:59.469 --> 00:20:01.019
that's so important to us right now.

00:20:01.019 --> 00:20:04.879
It allows us to focus in and,
and, you know, target our

00:20:04.879 --> 00:20:09.009
approaches and our resources where
we really need to be looking.

00:20:09.350 --> 00:20:15.389
So, um, anyway, I'm kind of going off
course here, but, uh, but yeah, I've had

00:20:15.389 --> 00:20:18.489
lots of conversations with BC residents.

00:20:18.675 --> 00:20:23.404
that have harvested animals in, in
Alberta, for example, and late, you

00:20:23.404 --> 00:20:26.654
know, brought the meat back and found
out that those animals are positive.

00:20:27.415 --> 00:20:32.335
And, um, what generally happens in BC is
they're notified by the Alberta program.

00:20:32.365 --> 00:20:35.734
And then the Alberta program has
notified us so we can follow up,

00:20:36.155 --> 00:20:37.894
um, around the disposal, right?

00:20:37.894 --> 00:20:40.355
Cause now we, we know that there's CWD.

00:20:40.550 --> 00:20:47.200
Um, um, CWD confirmed material
in somebody's freezer in BC.

00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:51.380
And, um, the advice is that they don't
eat it, but it's up to them if they

00:20:51.380 --> 00:20:54.780
want to eat it or not, but we always
reach out and say, if you do want to,

00:20:54.850 --> 00:20:58.350
if you don't want to eat this, please
consider transferring it over to us

00:20:58.350 --> 00:21:00.150
so we can dispose of this safely.

00:21:00.150 --> 00:21:03.360
Cause we don't want people just, you
know, burning it in their backyard.

00:21:03.360 --> 00:21:06.090
Cause then that's just going to get
into the soil or, or throwing it

00:21:06.090 --> 00:21:07.499
in the bush or something like that.

00:21:07.940 --> 00:21:12.605
Um, We actually will request that
the hunter turns that meat over to us

00:21:12.615 --> 00:21:17.415
so we can have it incinerated at our
agriculture lab because incineration is,

00:21:17.504 --> 00:21:22.975
as far as we know, the only effective
way to denature these, um, these.

00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:28.100
And so then we know it's disposed of
safely and there's no risk of it coming

00:21:28.100 --> 00:21:31.650
into the, um, our environment and BC.

00:21:31.750 --> 00:21:35.929
But, um, but those are hard conversations,
you know, with, with all of the struggles

00:21:35.929 --> 00:21:41.409
right now with, you know, just access
to food and, and the cost of food and

00:21:41.469 --> 00:21:47.929
everything, um, to, to have to make those
decisions around wasting meat like that.

00:21:47.929 --> 00:21:50.730
It's, it's really, it's,
it's heartbreaking.

00:21:51.190 --> 00:21:55.240
And, um, Um, you know, more and
more hunters in other places

00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:56.720
like Alberta and Saskatchewan.

00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:58.570
I mean, they've been dealing
with this for a while.

00:21:59.010 --> 00:22:01.889
Um, but you know, we've only
just really had a taste of it.

00:22:01.899 --> 00:22:05.970
We've been really lucky in BC that we
haven't had those kinds of impacts yet.

00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:10.930
So, you know, why we've been trying to
stay ahead of this and be proactive and

00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:16.760
try and catch us as quickly as possible so
that we don't repeat, um, some of those.

00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:21.830
Unfortunate situations that have
played out in other places where the

00:22:21.830 --> 00:22:26.260
disease has just taken hold and is
in a large number of populations now.

00:22:27.280 --> 00:22:31.790
Travis Bader: Where did we first start
seeing CWD and what happened to the

00:22:31.830 --> 00:22:32.460
Cait Nelson: landscape?

00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:35.950
Yeah, so we don't know for
sure where it originated.

00:22:36.190 --> 00:22:37.710
And so, um.

00:22:38.705 --> 00:22:44.414
We, the first documented cases of
chronic wasting disease were, uh, out

00:22:44.414 --> 00:22:47.324
of Colorado, Wyoming in the 1960s.

00:22:47.844 --> 00:22:51.804
Um, mainly centered around a,
like a research or ca a research

00:22:51.804 --> 00:22:53.784
facility in a cap captive animals.

00:22:54.365 --> 00:22:56.885
And, um, at that time
in the sixties, they.

00:22:57.215 --> 00:22:58.505
They didn't know what CWD was.

00:22:58.505 --> 00:23:00.035
It wasn't, it wasn't a thing yet.

00:23:00.515 --> 00:23:04.705
Um, but later, several years later, I
think it was almost a decade later, they,

00:23:05.255 --> 00:23:08.564
they just, they were like, okay, this
is a prion disease that's occurring in

00:23:08.565 --> 00:23:12.734
cervids and, and, you know, defined it
as chronic wasting disease at that time.

00:23:13.394 --> 00:23:18.855
Um, but you know, the, in those first, uh,
years or even the first couple of decades,

00:23:19.195 --> 00:23:23.585
it, um, they really didn't understand
the disease and how it was transmitted.

00:23:23.750 --> 00:23:27.330
How it could affect, you know,
um, contaminate the environment.

00:23:27.830 --> 00:23:32.379
So they didn't really have the
tools to manage it or contain it.

00:23:32.379 --> 00:23:37.629
And so it moved around through, um,
captive populations, through the farming

00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:40.850
industry and through wildlife populations.

00:23:40.850 --> 00:23:43.789
It, you know, crossed over
the fence in both directions.

00:23:44.280 --> 00:23:46.850
And it was spread around
quite a bit in the States.

00:23:46.850 --> 00:23:49.690
And then, you know, came
into Canada in the 19.

00:23:50.175 --> 00:23:56.415
Um, 1990s into Saskatchewan through,
um, uh, cap game farmed elk.

00:23:57.035 --> 00:24:00.915
And, uh, so yeah, it moved
around a lot before we really,

00:24:00.925 --> 00:24:03.795
anybody really understood the
disease and how it was spread.

00:24:04.314 --> 00:24:09.704
And then, you know, um, so some of
those earlier hit places, I think

00:24:09.705 --> 00:24:14.585
have seen some of the most significant
impacts because again, just didn't

00:24:14.595 --> 00:24:17.745
have the tools or the understanding
of how to manage this disease.

00:24:18.570 --> 00:24:24.450
Um, we now have the benefit of
several years now, uh, you know,

00:24:24.450 --> 00:24:30.179
lessons learned, uh, watching these
places that are managing CWD and, and

00:24:30.230 --> 00:24:31.950
what's worked and what hasn't worked.

00:24:32.360 --> 00:24:36.489
And uh, we have more tools in the,
in the toolbox now for sure, and

00:24:36.490 --> 00:24:39.990
better understanding of just the
disease dynamics and how it's spread.

00:24:41.370 --> 00:24:47.350
Travis Bader: Well, what, um, When
we, so I guess how long do we have

00:24:47.350 --> 00:24:50.890
an idea of how long those prions
are going to be in the environment?

00:24:50.910 --> 00:24:55.850
Let's say an animal was killed by a wolf
and it's down and it's decomposing, or

00:24:55.930 --> 00:25:00.169
maybe it's transmissible through its
saliva or feces or urine or whatever.

00:25:00.949 --> 00:25:04.509
Is it kind of there indefinitely,
or is it got a bit of a shelf life?

00:25:04.530 --> 00:25:07.749
Cait Nelson: We don't actually know,
again, as one of these things that we

00:25:07.749 --> 00:25:09.770
don't fully understand about the disease.

00:25:09.820 --> 00:25:12.390
Um, you know, I'm, I'm.

00:25:13.275 --> 00:25:16.755
Um, relative to other diseases that
really hasn't been around very long.

00:25:16.755 --> 00:25:22.115
So we haven't, um, really seen an
endpoint yet, uh, you know, for

00:25:22.115 --> 00:25:24.904
some of these things, we're still
watching and learning and seeing

00:25:24.915 --> 00:25:26.934
how it, how it impacts populations.

00:25:26.935 --> 00:25:30.084
So, so there has been some studies done.

00:25:30.084 --> 00:25:36.945
I think, um, looking at the prions
that cause scrapie, I think is one,

00:25:37.005 --> 00:25:43.295
one study that found that the prions
can exist in the environment for.

00:25:43.600 --> 00:25:47.820
Over 15 years, but that was just
sort of the length of that study.

00:25:47.830 --> 00:25:49.310
It's probably more.

00:25:49.340 --> 00:25:55.340
It's probably longer So we don't really
know but several years for sure There's

00:25:55.389 --> 00:26:01.229
been some other work that has showed how
these prions interact with the environment

00:26:01.229 --> 00:26:08.034
and soil different soils and so different
soil types will actually bind to prions

00:26:09.374 --> 00:26:14.094
and we'll, we'll make them more, they
sort of keep them at the surface so

00:26:14.094 --> 00:26:16.804
they're more available to other animals.

00:26:16.804 --> 00:26:20.944
Whereas other soil types might, you
know, with rain and they wash, they

00:26:20.945 --> 00:26:25.584
wash through and they're not as, um,
sort of available at the surface.

00:26:26.104 --> 00:26:31.105
So anyway, all, all of these things,
there's, there's different, um, different

00:26:31.105 --> 00:26:36.255
factors, uh, different variables on
the landscape that will impact this.

00:26:36.285 --> 00:26:41.105
But as you know, as far as we know,
the prions will remain active, we

00:26:41.105 --> 00:26:45.154
could say, or infectious and with
the potential to expose other animals

00:26:45.154 --> 00:26:49.274
for several years, even if in the
absence of those sick animals that

00:26:49.274 --> 00:26:51.209
originally deposited them there.

00:26:52.629 --> 00:26:55.270
Travis Bader: Well, that's an interesting
question about the environment.

00:26:55.300 --> 00:26:58.870
Are there certain environments that
just become pre on cesspools that the

00:26:58.889 --> 00:27:03.020
hunter going in there knows that if
I'm rolling the dice, I'm the odds

00:27:03.020 --> 00:27:06.389
aren't in my favor and other ones
where if they want to roll those dice,

00:27:06.419 --> 00:27:07.700
the odds might be in their favor.

00:27:07.879 --> 00:27:08.179
Cait Nelson: Yeah.

00:27:08.220 --> 00:27:08.800
Again, it's.

00:27:09.015 --> 00:27:12.415
Um, not something that we fully
understand sort of on the landscape,

00:27:12.745 --> 00:27:17.335
but there's definitely been some
evidence of what we call CWD hotspots

00:27:17.844 --> 00:27:21.774
where, um, animals will visit a site.

00:27:22.155 --> 00:27:26.025
Um, if there's, if there's like an
attractant, um, if there's some sort

00:27:26.025 --> 00:27:30.185
of a food source and multiple animals
are coming to that site and they sort

00:27:30.185 --> 00:27:35.610
of are congregating together, um, You
know, it makes sense that, you know,

00:27:35.610 --> 00:27:37.280
they're sort of coming back to that site.

00:27:37.280 --> 00:27:38.170
They're all eating there.

00:27:38.170 --> 00:27:41.190
Every, you know, everyone's
drooling and urinating on that spot.

00:27:41.500 --> 00:27:46.340
So those are areas where you tend
to see higher rates of that disease

00:27:46.370 --> 00:27:50.479
transmission and higher rates
of environmental contamination.

00:27:50.479 --> 00:27:54.640
So, so it's just sort of this,
um, circular thing that continues

00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:56.735
driving that, um, disease.

00:27:57.345 --> 00:28:02.095
So, uh, yeah, there's definitely some
evidence of that, um, you know, how

00:28:02.115 --> 00:28:06.605
much that's playing a role overall
in the, um, in the, on the landscape.

00:28:06.605 --> 00:28:10.885
We don't fully understand, but, but
some of those areas, things like, um,

00:28:10.955 --> 00:28:15.649
urban deer populations in some other
places, like we've seen the situation

00:28:15.649 --> 00:28:19.960
in Northwest Montana and the Libby
area, um, you know, pretty high rates

00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:24.600
of, of disease in, in that white
tail population in the city limits.

00:28:24.600 --> 00:28:29.680
And so there's some, some reasons,
you know, that that could be, um,

00:28:29.699 --> 00:28:31.559
just the ecology of urban deer.

00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:33.530
They're kind of using the same areas.

00:28:33.740 --> 00:28:38.390
The higher, you know, highly
concentrated, not as many, um, pressures

00:28:38.390 --> 00:28:39.970
from predators or hunters, right?

00:28:39.970 --> 00:28:44.449
And so you, you can see kind of
more disease, um, transmission

00:28:44.449 --> 00:28:46.430
in, in those types of situations.

00:28:47.809 --> 00:28:52.879
Travis Bader: Are we finding any sort of
like genetic outliers or markers within

00:28:52.949 --> 00:28:57.959
some of these cervids that are just
not getting the CWD or maybe genetic

00:28:57.959 --> 00:29:00.119
outliers who are more predisposition

00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:00.590
Cait Nelson: to get it?

00:29:00.709 --> 00:29:01.739
Yeah, great question.

00:29:01.739 --> 00:29:03.879
I, a short answer is I don't think so.

00:29:03.939 --> 00:29:08.859
Um, again, that's not my area of
expertise, but my understanding

00:29:08.869 --> 00:29:11.349
is, you know, there's, there's
been a fair bit of work looking at

00:29:11.349 --> 00:29:16.349
caribou and if caribou might have
hope, you know, everyone's hopeful.

00:29:16.560 --> 00:29:19.239
Because of the conservation
concerns around caribou, that

00:29:19.239 --> 00:29:22.019
they might have some resistance,
and there's no evidence of that.

00:29:22.629 --> 00:29:30.034
Um, and so, uh, I think, I think
the, um, The thinking is that these

00:29:30.034 --> 00:29:34.614
animals don't build any kind of
immunity because it's a protein.

00:29:35.054 --> 00:29:38.144
The body, just like, you know, we
all have proteins in our bodies.

00:29:38.145 --> 00:29:42.724
Well, you know, the body doesn't
recognize it as something foreign or

00:29:42.724 --> 00:29:43.934
something that's not supposed to be there.

00:29:43.934 --> 00:29:48.395
Like, you know, a bacteria or a virus,
the body will know there's something

00:29:48.395 --> 00:29:50.245
foreign and you get an immune response.

00:29:50.895 --> 00:29:53.185
With these proteins,
there's no immune response.

00:29:53.205 --> 00:29:56.754
The body doesn't recognize it as
anything that shouldn't be there.

00:29:57.175 --> 00:29:58.945
And so animals don't build immunity.

00:29:59.415 --> 00:30:00.085
Over time.

00:30:00.545 --> 00:30:01.385
Um, to this.

00:30:01.395 --> 00:30:06.245
So, uh, there's, there's some work and
again, not my area of expertise, but,

00:30:06.625 --> 00:30:11.225
but there's a bodily body of research
is looking at different strains of CWD

00:30:11.265 --> 00:30:15.375
that are present, um, both in North
America, and it's done some work in,

00:30:15.385 --> 00:30:20.265
in Europe, in the, in the CWD outbreak
around Scandinavia, um, that there's

00:30:20.265 --> 00:30:26.560
different strains of the disease
that may impact, you Animals are

00:30:26.560 --> 00:30:28.300
different species in a different way.

00:30:28.310 --> 00:30:32.520
Some, you know, some lead to a
faster progression of, of disease

00:30:32.520 --> 00:30:33.660
and, and things like that.

00:30:34.120 --> 00:30:39.750
But, um, but in all cases, the animal
becomes infected and will die ultimately.

00:30:40.250 --> 00:30:44.800
Just with some different, um, kind
of characteristics along the way.

00:30:45.945 --> 00:30:46.325
Some of the

00:30:46.325 --> 00:30:47.875
Travis Bader: questions that
I had were going to be around

00:30:47.875 --> 00:30:52.645
identifying animals that have CWD and
characteristics that you see in them.

00:30:52.645 --> 00:30:59.025
And, but I mean, your initial statement
about, you can't really, um, I,

00:30:59.025 --> 00:31:02.835
I would guess at some point you'd
be able to identify if it's, uh,

00:31:03.045 --> 00:31:05.075
gone far enough down the spectrum.

00:31:05.555 --> 00:31:10.105
Um, what, what would be some of
the observations that somebody

00:31:10.105 --> 00:31:11.315
would have of that animal?

00:31:11.315 --> 00:31:13.725
If they say, oh, for
sure, that one's got CWD.

00:31:14.505 --> 00:31:17.995
And, um, are there any like
sort of pathological features

00:31:18.005 --> 00:31:20.105
observed in the affected animals?

00:31:20.115 --> 00:31:20.625
Cait Nelson: Sure.

00:31:21.035 --> 00:31:21.395
Yeah.

00:31:21.395 --> 00:31:24.715
And we definitely would, you know,
want people looking out for those.

00:31:24.715 --> 00:31:25.105
Right.

00:31:25.435 --> 00:31:31.075
Um, again, it's, it, it, from what we've
seen in other places, it's pretty rare

00:31:31.075 --> 00:31:32.755
to see stick animals on the landscape.

00:31:33.295 --> 00:31:37.445
Um, one likely reason for that is that.

00:31:38.360 --> 00:31:42.730
animals start to show that vulnerability
and, and predators would recognize that,

00:31:43.100 --> 00:31:45.300
um, you know, before people wouldn't.

00:31:45.300 --> 00:31:49.640
So I think that that's, what's happened in
some places is that predators are sort of

00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:54.550
taking out those vulnerable sick animals
before we see any evidence of disease.

00:31:55.060 --> 00:31:58.180
Um, but yeah, things to look
for in those later stages.

00:31:58.180 --> 00:32:05.005
So again, this neurological disease, um,
There's the classic, if you, you know,

00:32:05.005 --> 00:32:11.665
you'll see images or videos online of like
severely thin animals that are, um, have

00:32:11.665 --> 00:32:19.365
poor coordination, trembling, drooling,
you know, ears down, um, really lethargic.

00:32:20.185 --> 00:32:26.090
You see images like that online and, and
that, that is, um, Late stage, right?

00:32:26.230 --> 00:32:30.920
And, and different like studies
have been able to track that and

00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:34.060
observe that late stage in like a
research setting in a captive setting.

00:32:34.060 --> 00:32:36.250
They see these animals progress to that.

00:32:37.360 --> 00:32:42.190
So certainly, if we see any animals on the
landscape with those types of symptoms,

00:32:42.800 --> 00:32:44.180
that's something our wildlife health.

00:32:44.395 --> 00:32:49.215
Program would, would really like to, um,
hear about and, and those are animals

00:32:49.215 --> 00:32:53.405
that we're going to want to follow up
on just in case, you know, so, so those,

00:32:53.885 --> 00:32:57.025
um, very thin and neurological symptoms.

00:32:57.025 --> 00:32:57.725
Definitely.

00:32:58.155 --> 00:33:03.975
Um, even before that happens, though, um,
when there's changes to the brain, uh,

00:33:04.005 --> 00:33:08.255
before you see really obvious symptoms
showing there might be some subtle

00:33:08.265 --> 00:33:11.525
things like, uh, animals just sort of.

00:33:12.940 --> 00:33:18.150
to be like, not, uh, not afraid of
people approaching or, or, you know,

00:33:19.130 --> 00:33:24.570
other, you know, dogs approaching
just sort of, um, not very alert.

00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:29.350
Um, not moving out of the
way as, as normal behavior

00:33:29.350 --> 00:33:31.160
would, would show generally.

00:33:31.570 --> 00:33:38.680
Um, that's another reason why roadkill
samples are a super important sample for

00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:41.660
us because obviously lots of animals get.

00:33:41.850 --> 00:33:42.820
Uh, hit on the road.

00:33:42.820 --> 00:33:46.150
And so that's a really good
source of samples, but those

00:33:46.180 --> 00:33:50.540
animals that, um, are starting to
have some of those neurological

00:33:50.580 --> 00:33:54.720
impacts will be more susceptible
to getting hit by a vehicle too.

00:33:55.070 --> 00:33:55.410
Right.

00:33:55.440 --> 00:34:02.070
And so they're almost like a, uh, uh,
a higher, um, uh, what's the word?

00:34:02.070 --> 00:34:09.235
Like higher value sample for us because
they may be more prone to, um, to being

00:34:09.235 --> 00:34:11.495
hit by a car if they're, if they're sick.

00:34:12.065 --> 00:34:16.675
Um, so yeah, so those are some sort
of more subtle, uh, observations if,

00:34:16.685 --> 00:34:20.685
if people, um, observe something like
that, you know, and with all of these

00:34:20.685 --> 00:34:24.385
things that I'm describing, there's other
things out there that could cause these,

00:34:24.385 --> 00:34:28.720
it's not necessarily chronic wasting
disease, but, um, we definitely would

00:34:28.720 --> 00:34:32.805
like to hear about it so that we can
follow up and, and, um, you know, just

00:34:32.805 --> 00:34:38.795
keep track of what's going on because,
uh, there's, you know, the, um, Hunting

00:34:38.795 --> 00:34:43.525
community and, and trapping community
and just locals that are on the land,

00:34:43.535 --> 00:34:45.255
like you're our ears and eyes out there.

00:34:45.665 --> 00:34:50.805
Um, and so if you're observing anything
abnormal, um, we'd sure like to

00:34:50.805 --> 00:34:52.375
hear about it and we can follow up.

00:34:53.745 --> 00:34:56.335
Travis Bader: So I, okay.

00:34:56.425 --> 00:34:59.855
I was going to ask a different question,
but just an easy follow up on that one

00:34:59.855 --> 00:35:03.415
would be, um, what's Like how, how would
somebody, who would they report that to?

00:35:03.765 --> 00:35:04.175
Yeah.

00:35:04.365 --> 00:35:05.705
How would they let people know?

00:35:05.705 --> 00:35:08.925
And the other question that people, and
this was going to be further down the

00:35:08.925 --> 00:35:13.665
line was, should somebody try and take
that animal out of the ecosystem, but

00:35:13.665 --> 00:35:17.585
knowing now that it's going to be in the,
in the ground and every, everywhere else.

00:35:17.895 --> 00:35:19.515
Like there's that whole
ethical thing as well.

00:35:19.525 --> 00:35:20.005
Cait Nelson: Right.

00:35:20.115 --> 00:35:20.495
Yeah.

00:35:20.505 --> 00:35:23.795
Well, again, I think those are the
type of decisions that, you know, if

00:35:23.795 --> 00:35:27.545
it's reported to us or reported to our
conservation officer service or our

00:35:27.545 --> 00:35:33.315
local wildlife biologists, um, we can
then, you know, sort of, uh, get the.

00:35:33.815 --> 00:35:38.295
the facts of the situation and,
and determine if, if it's, if maybe

00:35:38.295 --> 00:35:41.535
we, we can rule out chronic wasting
disease if there's something else

00:35:41.535 --> 00:35:45.345
that appears to be going on and
then it's not, um, as higher risk.

00:35:45.345 --> 00:35:50.525
But, uh, uh, you know, I think, I think, I
don't think we can really encourage people

00:35:50.525 --> 00:35:56.465
to, um, You know, remove these animals,
but definitely let's, you know, reach out

00:35:56.495 --> 00:36:01.985
and we can, we can, uh, get the facts,
um, and follow up and then determine if

00:36:01.985 --> 00:36:06.445
this is something, an animal that we want
to go in and collect a sample from, and

00:36:06.445 --> 00:36:10.385
then we'll know, but yeah, without the
samples, without, you know, photographs

00:36:10.385 --> 00:36:12.244
and videos are really valuable to us.

00:36:12.245 --> 00:36:17.095
And those can always be, um, emailed
to us, uh, our wildlife health program.

00:36:17.475 --> 00:36:21.445
Um, You know, again, going to the
website, all of our contact information

00:36:21.445 --> 00:36:26.885
is there, and so we can be reached that
way through email or phone, um, and our

00:36:26.905 --> 00:36:31.995
conservation officers, too, are that
with the RAP line, um, their call center

00:36:31.995 --> 00:36:33.805
can direct calls to us as well, so.

00:36:35.165 --> 00:36:35.825
So how was,

00:36:35.945 --> 00:36:37.285
Travis Bader: how was testing done?

00:36:37.495 --> 00:36:42.025
Uh, does, do you see false positives
or false negatives at times?

00:36:42.075 --> 00:36:46.175
And, um, are there going to
be home testing kits that are

00:36:46.175 --> 00:36:47.785
provided for hunters so they can

00:36:47.785 --> 00:36:48.475
Cait Nelson: kind of field test?

00:36:48.475 --> 00:36:49.615
That's the dream, Travis.

00:36:49.635 --> 00:36:50.545
That would be great.

00:36:50.665 --> 00:36:56.905
But, um, but no, we, um, so let's,
yeah, I'll explain testing a little bit.

00:36:56.905 --> 00:37:00.465
And again, the, you know, how
important testing is right now.

00:37:00.465 --> 00:37:01.495
It's so important.

00:37:02.025 --> 00:37:07.650
Um, It has been, uh, a real priority
for us in the last few years as

00:37:07.650 --> 00:37:13.730
the risk level, um, increased, uh,
because it's super important to catch

00:37:13.740 --> 00:37:15.260
this disease as early as possible.

00:37:15.260 --> 00:37:19.905
So all the samples, um, That
we've had that we've had turned

00:37:19.905 --> 00:37:21.385
into our testing program.

00:37:21.465 --> 00:37:25.215
Um, they're, they're mainly coming
from hunters, which is amazing.

00:37:25.215 --> 00:37:28.905
And it really just highlights
the important partnership there.

00:37:29.235 --> 00:37:34.505
Um, we need to test a lot of animals
to have accurate information about

00:37:34.505 --> 00:37:35.815
what's going on on the landscape.

00:37:36.265 --> 00:37:41.565
And so, uh, Our approach has been to let's
try and access these animals that are

00:37:41.565 --> 00:37:43.475
already being removed from the landscape.

00:37:43.825 --> 00:37:48.165
So through hunter harvested animals
and roadkill, uh, but still about,

00:37:48.285 --> 00:37:51.795
you know, 80 percent of our samples
come from hunter harvested animals.

00:37:52.105 --> 00:37:55.565
So without hunters, we wouldn't have
this program, you know, we wouldn't

00:37:55.565 --> 00:37:57.215
have been able to detect these cases.

00:37:57.215 --> 00:38:01.335
And hopefully we've We, because we've
really ramped up, um, testing in

00:38:01.335 --> 00:38:06.075
the, in the Kootenay region in the
last few years, um, our goal is to

00:38:06.075 --> 00:38:07.955
catch it as early as possible, right?

00:38:07.955 --> 00:38:12.625
So that we can, um, uh, try and
contain it and, and slow the spread.

00:38:12.975 --> 00:38:16.095
And hopefully that's, that's what
we've been able to achieve here.

00:38:16.095 --> 00:38:18.965
But, um, yeah, those, those
samples are really key.

00:38:18.965 --> 00:38:21.625
Also working a lot with the trapping
community, picking up roadkill

00:38:22.025 --> 00:38:24.935
that they're using for bait and
getting samples that way as well.

00:38:25.465 --> 00:38:32.180
Um, So once those, uh, samples are
submitted to us, um, what, what we need

00:38:32.200 --> 00:38:36.600
to test for CWD are tissues at the back
of the throat and the base of the skull.

00:38:37.040 --> 00:38:42.120
So we're testing all species in the deer
family, deer, elk, moose, and caribou.

00:38:42.610 --> 00:38:44.160
Um, the majority of.

00:38:44.395 --> 00:38:48.105
of samples that we receive are from deer,
but we're really interested in all those

00:38:48.105 --> 00:38:52.835
species, because they can all, um, uh,
they're all susceptible to the disease.

00:38:53.345 --> 00:38:56.285
So on deer, we collect a
specific lymph node at the back

00:38:56.285 --> 00:38:57.935
of the throat and the tonsils.

00:38:58.485 --> 00:39:03.190
So all we really need, um, you
know, at the beginning, you know,

00:39:03.190 --> 00:39:06.780
earlier, um, earlier years of this
program, we always said, you know,

00:39:06.780 --> 00:39:08.110
submit your head for testing.

00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:09.380
And that's still great.

00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:12.160
If hunters want to turn in a
head, we don't want the antlers.

00:39:12.290 --> 00:39:14.110
You can cut the antlers
off the top of the head.

00:39:14.110 --> 00:39:18.110
We don't need the, the, the brain
and the top part of the head at all.

00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:21.720
Um, we're really just targeting those
tissues at the back of the throat.

00:39:22.120 --> 00:39:23.800
So hunters can turn in a head.

00:39:24.090 --> 00:39:28.460
Um, they can also turn in the low
jaw if they want to do a European

00:39:28.460 --> 00:39:30.140
mountain and retain that top.

00:39:30.420 --> 00:39:31.400
portion of the head.

00:39:31.810 --> 00:39:36.410
Um, removing the low jaw just by
cutting around the arch at the back

00:39:36.410 --> 00:39:39.660
of that low jawbone, all the tissues
we need are protected in there.

00:39:39.690 --> 00:39:42.030
And so we've had a lot of
hunters just turning those in.

00:39:42.350 --> 00:39:43.950
And that's a great sample for us.

00:39:44.450 --> 00:39:48.240
Um, we're also providing training
for hunters if they're interested

00:39:48.250 --> 00:39:52.190
in, um, collecting their own tissues
off their own animal, and then

00:39:52.190 --> 00:39:55.955
they can just literally submit the
tonsils and lymph nodes in a Ziploc

00:39:55.975 --> 00:39:57.815
bag to one of our freezer locations.

00:39:58.355 --> 00:40:01.375
And, um, and so through our
training program, they can also

00:40:01.395 --> 00:40:03.585
access, um, YouTube videos.

00:40:03.585 --> 00:40:08.265
There's, there's lots of resources online
on, on how to collect your own samples.

00:40:08.265 --> 00:40:09.775
And so we really encourage that too.

00:40:09.805 --> 00:40:10.405
That's great.

00:40:10.775 --> 00:40:15.175
Any way that we can make it easy for
hunters to turn in those samples, um,

00:40:15.185 --> 00:40:16.745
you know, we're trying to support that.

00:40:17.515 --> 00:40:22.875
On the elk, moose, and caribou, we do
collect slightly different tissues.

00:40:23.030 --> 00:40:27.160
So we're still, um, collecting the
lymph node at the back of the throat,

00:40:27.590 --> 00:40:31.230
but we need a portion of the brainstem
that's right at the base of the skull.

00:40:31.730 --> 00:40:35.620
And so for that reason, um,
we do need the head intact.

00:40:35.910 --> 00:40:38.350
Um, if you're going to be submitting
the head, cause we need that

00:40:38.350 --> 00:40:41.550
portion of the brainstem and
it's, it's really just a section.

00:40:41.940 --> 00:40:45.260
Um, it's called the OBEX and
it's right at the, at the

00:40:45.260 --> 00:40:46.630
opening, the back of the skull.

00:40:46.740 --> 00:40:48.530
If you remove that first vertebrae.

00:40:49.265 --> 00:40:52.295
It's right at the back of the skull
there so hunters can turn in the

00:40:52.295 --> 00:40:58.340
head of elk and moose that you've
harvested YouTube video or reach out.

00:40:58.570 --> 00:41:01.000
It's pretty easy to, to get that sample.

00:41:01.020 --> 00:41:03.910
If you want to collect your own samples
and then just submit those to one of

00:41:03.910 --> 00:41:08.740
our freezer locations, and then you
can retain the, the skull and the head,

00:41:08.750 --> 00:41:12.120
the, you know, the, the head intact, if
you wanted to do something with that.

00:41:12.650 --> 00:41:19.130
Um, what we use, uh, is, uh, as
a grapefruit spoon, you know, the

00:41:19.150 --> 00:41:23.120
small little narrow grapefruit
spoons that we all had in our in our

00:41:23.120 --> 00:41:24.570
cutlery drawers when we were kids.

00:41:24.580 --> 00:41:26.140
They're really hard to find now.

00:41:26.140 --> 00:41:30.710
So if anyone ever is in a thrift store
and sees these little grapefruit spoons,

00:41:30.720 --> 00:41:35.210
that would be a great gift to our
program, but they work really well, um,

00:41:35.220 --> 00:41:38.980
for removing that Obex, that brainstem
sample from the back of the skull.

00:41:39.390 --> 00:41:42.700
Um, and, uh, anyway, so yeah,
so that's another option

00:41:42.810 --> 00:41:44.700
for, for submitting samples.

00:41:45.070 --> 00:41:47.600
So yeah, we're just, we're
trying to create as many.

00:41:48.440 --> 00:41:52.610
Uh, you know, remove as many barriers
as possible if hunters want to keep,

00:41:52.640 --> 00:41:58.990
um, portions for a trophy or, um, you
know, if, if it's a larger head, they

00:41:58.990 --> 00:42:02.450
don't want to have to carry it out
of the bush or something like that.

00:42:02.450 --> 00:42:05.739
You just, you know, it doesn't, you
know, it's just a knife and a, and a

00:42:05.740 --> 00:42:09.820
Ziploc bag and you can collect your own,
own samples and submit them that way.

00:42:09.820 --> 00:42:13.060
And then you get the peace
of mind on that CWD result.

00:42:13.060 --> 00:42:16.050
And we get the information
to inform what we're doing.

00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:17.670
Travis Bader: Right.

00:42:17.680 --> 00:42:21.010
So, and I guess the freezer locations
and training videos and all that

00:42:21.010 --> 00:42:24.280
kind of stuff will be on the CWD
website or will there be other links?

00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:24.580
Yeah.

00:42:24.640 --> 00:42:24.820
Cait Nelson: Yeah.

00:42:24.820 --> 00:42:27.230
We've got all of our freezer
locations up on the website.

00:42:27.580 --> 00:42:31.930
Um, we have some descriptions
of, uh, you know, sampling, um,

00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:36.120
instructions on the website as well,
and then YouTube too is a, is a good

00:42:36.120 --> 00:42:37.850
source for, for different videos.

00:42:39.385 --> 00:42:43.785
Travis Bader: So is there any promising
research that's being looked at right

00:42:43.785 --> 00:42:45.725
now that can give people some hope?

00:42:45.735 --> 00:42:48.335
I mean, obviously we don't have
anything definitive, but are there

00:42:48.335 --> 00:42:51.955
areas that people are looking at that
say, huh, there might be a light at

00:42:51.965 --> 00:42:53.125
the end of this tunnel right now?

00:42:53.325 --> 00:42:53.635
Cait Nelson: Yeah.

00:42:53.635 --> 00:42:56.785
Well, you know, I touched on
this a little bit earlier where.

00:42:57.155 --> 00:43:03.365
We are very fortunate in BC that, um,
we've had some time, um, and, and the

00:43:03.375 --> 00:43:09.195
benefit of learning from these other
places that have been managing, uh,

00:43:09.225 --> 00:43:15.205
CWD in their wildlife populations for,
you know, two or three decades now.

00:43:15.605 --> 00:43:21.505
And, um, And especially in, in more
research or recent situations where,

00:43:21.825 --> 00:43:27.165
uh, some places in the States, um, have
detected the disease in the last 10 years.

00:43:27.565 --> 00:43:33.325
And, and, You know, it's all hinging
on detecting it early, catching

00:43:33.325 --> 00:43:38.305
the disease as early as possible,
which really seems to, um, increase

00:43:38.305 --> 00:43:41.565
chances of, of successful management.

00:43:42.065 --> 00:43:46.055
Um, but we've got some good evidence
now out of the States where if you

00:43:46.075 --> 00:43:50.215
catch it early and you, you can apply
some management, you know, there's

00:43:50.215 --> 00:43:54.675
some examples now where they've been
able to keep disease prevalence really

00:43:54.675 --> 00:43:59.595
low, like below five or in Illinois,
like below 3 percent after 20 years.

00:43:59.745 --> 00:44:02.065
of the disease being in
those deer populations.

00:44:02.645 --> 00:44:06.585
So, you know, if, if I think
that is a success, right?

00:44:06.615 --> 00:44:10.515
If, if you have the disease on your
landscape for, for, you know, after

00:44:10.515 --> 00:44:14.575
20 years and you go out, there's only
a 3 percent chance that the animal

00:44:14.575 --> 00:44:16.335
you harvest is going to be infected.

00:44:16.865 --> 00:44:18.925
Like that, that would be pretty great.

00:44:19.325 --> 00:44:19.685
Right.

00:44:19.715 --> 00:44:23.735
And, and so the big recommendations
that are coming out of these.

00:44:23.925 --> 00:44:29.105
These management agencies and
the CWD experts is, um, hunting

00:44:29.105 --> 00:44:30.425
is our most important tool.

00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:37.070
Um, for managing CWD and, and it's
these, these examples where they've

00:44:37.070 --> 00:44:40.620
had success has mainly focused
through, you know, managing the

00:44:40.620 --> 00:44:42.140
disease through harvest management.

00:44:42.650 --> 00:44:45.580
So you understand the disease and
again, that's what we're trying to

00:44:45.740 --> 00:44:50.160
accomplish right now is really pull all
the information together, get the, the,

00:44:50.190 --> 00:44:54.690
you know, the local knowledge and the
experts, um, get all that information

00:44:54.690 --> 00:44:57.050
so we can really understand the, the.

00:44:57.800 --> 00:45:02.030
What's happening on on the landscape
and what animals are affected and where

00:45:02.610 --> 00:45:08.130
and when you have that information you
can focus your, um, you know, management

00:45:08.210 --> 00:45:13.020
targeting animals that are most likely to
be infected on a much like smaller scale.

00:45:13.030 --> 00:45:16.050
I was talking about the importance
of surveillance right now and all

00:45:16.050 --> 00:45:20.830
those negative results and how that's
allowing us to focus in and really.

00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:25.750
you know, target our, our efforts
where it's needed rather than trying

00:45:25.750 --> 00:45:28.940
to apply a strategy over a huge area.

00:45:28.940 --> 00:45:31.840
If you're not going to have
as much success, right?

00:45:32.570 --> 00:45:38.700
And so, um, yeah, just zeroing in on
the, um, animals that are most likely

00:45:38.700 --> 00:45:42.460
to be infected, harvest management,
definitely the most important,

00:45:42.830 --> 00:45:45.580
um, tool and we've seen success.

00:45:46.290 --> 00:45:51.480
We're also really focused in, even
in these early days before we have a

00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:55.850
complete picture, we know that there's
a risk of moving carcasses around.

00:45:56.160 --> 00:46:00.260
We don't want, we don't want to
allow the disease to spread around

00:46:00.260 --> 00:46:03.230
now that we know that it's present
in these areas in the Kootenays.

00:46:03.560 --> 00:46:06.190
We don't want it to spread to
other areas and there's a risk

00:46:06.190 --> 00:46:07.510
with moving carcasses around.

00:46:07.510 --> 00:46:10.200
So we're focusing in, you know,
we're outside of the hunting

00:46:10.200 --> 00:46:11.770
season now, focusing in on.

00:46:12.100 --> 00:46:15.560
Road killed samples and how they're
going to be disposed of and where

00:46:15.560 --> 00:46:18.920
they're being transported and making
sure that that's held on really safely.

00:46:19.570 --> 00:46:24.340
Um, so that, you know, other actions
like that, reducing the potential for

00:46:24.340 --> 00:46:29.950
that spread, um, we'll be talking about
how we're going to, um, approach the,

00:46:29.970 --> 00:46:34.060
this next hunting season and looking at
harvest management as most important tool.

00:46:34.500 --> 00:46:39.450
Um, you know, some places in, in
other, you know, other places have

00:46:39.460 --> 00:46:41.810
applied some, you know, really.

00:46:43.190 --> 00:46:47.040
removal of animals, you know, if, if
they can't achieve their targets through

00:46:47.210 --> 00:46:52.200
harvest management, the supplement with
some targeted removals, um, following a

00:46:52.200 --> 00:46:56.990
hunting season sort of thing to, to, you
know, focus in on those animals that they

00:46:56.990 --> 00:47:01.510
believe to be infected or higher risk
populations or clusters of cases, those

00:47:01.530 --> 00:47:04.400
types of things, but much more success.

00:47:04.930 --> 00:47:10.300
Zeroing in on those small scales, then
some of the management that was applied

00:47:10.330 --> 00:47:14.540
20 years ago, uh, or, you know, 20,
30 years ago, like, you know, it lay

00:47:14.540 --> 00:47:18.520
in the prairies, for example, where,
um, there were these large scale culls

00:47:18.520 --> 00:47:23.420
and they just, um, it was effective
in slowing the disease, you know, but

00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:26.540
it was not, it was very controversial.

00:47:26.570 --> 00:47:28.900
It was not supported by
the hunting community.

00:47:29.210 --> 00:47:34.500
Um, and so they were not supported
and, and those programs were, um,

00:47:34.845 --> 00:47:39.845
Were halted and unfortunately what's
resulted is continued spread and,

00:47:39.855 --> 00:47:45.415
um, uh, of the disease and, and, and
increasing infection rates, right?

00:47:45.765 --> 00:47:49.295
So we've learned from that and we've
learned about the importance of, of really

00:47:49.295 --> 00:47:55.095
understanding the situation so you can
target your approaches and, um, working,

00:47:55.105 --> 00:47:59.935
you know, really closely with the hunting
communities as, as a partner in this.

00:48:00.425 --> 00:48:04.205
Because that, you know, hunting
is, is the most important tool.

00:48:04.625 --> 00:48:07.385
And, and that's, that's the, that's
the advice that's coming out of these,

00:48:07.445 --> 00:48:11.595
these places in the States that have
learned, um, you know, we've, we've got

00:48:12.085 --> 00:48:15.845
a couple of decades now, lessons learned,
and we hope to apply that in BC now.

00:48:17.045 --> 00:48:20.265
Travis Bader: Well, what are some of
the biggest challenges or obstacles

00:48:20.315 --> 00:48:24.435
that researchers and policymakers
are encountering when it comes to

00:48:24.435 --> 00:48:32.510
effectively, uh, Working through
this issue and what sort of, uh, ways

00:48:32.520 --> 00:48:34.690
can the public help overcome this?

00:48:34.690 --> 00:48:35.070
Yeah.

00:48:35.520 --> 00:48:35.920
Cait Nelson: Yeah.

00:48:35.930 --> 00:48:40.260
So, um, I mean, there's lots of little
challenges and, and we, again, learning

00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:43.180
from other places, we've, we've had, um.

00:48:44.370 --> 00:48:48.980
from these other management agencies
saying, you know, this, these

00:48:48.980 --> 00:48:50.630
are the challenges that we faced.

00:48:50.660 --> 00:48:56.540
And so, you know, we could be proactive
here in BC to, to try and identify

00:48:56.590 --> 00:48:59.220
those and mitigate those ahead of time.

00:48:59.290 --> 00:49:03.640
And so that's what we've been trying
to do is listening to our partners

00:49:03.710 --> 00:49:09.090
in other places and our colleagues
and, and, um, and try and set us up.

00:49:10.170 --> 00:49:11.950
you know, for success in BC.

00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:16.530
So we've been putting a ton of,
um, effort into that planning.

00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:20.880
And, uh, and fortunately, um, I
mean, we've been doing surveillance

00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:26.760
for CWD and BC since for 20 years
since the early two thousands.

00:49:27.170 --> 00:49:32.865
And, um, And, and back in, in
the, in the early 2000s, my, my,

00:49:33.365 --> 00:49:35.185
um, boss at that time was Dr.

00:49:35.185 --> 00:49:39.565
Helen Swansha, the Provincial
Wildlife Vet, um, in her wisdom, she

00:49:39.825 --> 00:49:44.075
set up, uh, advisory, an advisory
committee and some working groups.

00:49:44.325 --> 00:49:46.465
Uh, local working groups in the areas.

00:49:46.675 --> 00:49:48.565
None of this is like 2006.

00:49:48.845 --> 00:49:52.155
She identified, you know, the
Kootenai region and the peace region

00:49:52.165 --> 00:49:53.675
because we're bordering with Alberta.

00:49:53.675 --> 00:49:56.275
And at that time, those were
where the closest cases were.

00:49:56.665 --> 00:50:02.135
We need to set up some advisory teams that
include, you know, our agency partners.

00:50:02.395 --> 00:50:06.645
Experts, the, you know, hunting
communities and the, the, the

00:50:06.645 --> 00:50:11.885
stakeholder groups, you know, First
Nations and get all of those minds

00:50:11.885 --> 00:50:17.295
together at a table so that we can be
collaborative in this and, um, and,

00:50:17.305 --> 00:50:19.185
and develop this program together.

00:50:19.395 --> 00:50:23.865
And so I think that's really a
strength of our program and, and, and

00:50:23.865 --> 00:50:25.675
it's going to set us up for success.

00:50:26.705 --> 00:50:28.175
It's not going to be easy.

00:50:28.340 --> 00:50:32.210
There's, you know, there's, there's,
there's very, very few examples out there

00:50:32.210 --> 00:50:34.840
where, where things have gone perfectly.

00:50:35.200 --> 00:50:41.200
But, um, I think having had these,
uh, these working groups established

00:50:41.240 --> 00:50:45.880
and, and this, this collaborative
team, um, we've been working together

00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:50.750
for, you know, 20 years now and have
some, a really, um, strong foundation

00:50:50.750 --> 00:50:53.360
in partnership and communication.

00:50:53.380 --> 00:50:58.320
And they've, um, provided input on
our surveillance and response plan.

00:50:58.955 --> 00:51:02.385
Which we update all the time because
there's all this new information, so we

00:51:02.385 --> 00:51:06.875
have continually updated that and the
plans available on our website as well

00:51:06.875 --> 00:51:11.745
if anyone wants to have a look at it, it
details, um, you know, the, the steps that

00:51:11.745 --> 00:51:16.105
we propose and then this initial response
phase, it's, it's, it's on our website.

00:51:17.615 --> 00:51:20.835
But having all of those, that
input and that partnership at the,

00:51:20.905 --> 00:51:25.255
at the table, I think is really
going to help us along in, in this.

00:51:25.325 --> 00:51:29.135
Um, and there, there'll definitely going
to be some bumps in the road, but, um,

00:51:29.475 --> 00:51:34.055
but if we can work together and, um,
and through everybody's networks of,

00:51:34.075 --> 00:51:38.820
you know, communication and education
and, um, connection with the hunting

00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:42.340
community and the trapping community
and accessing those samples and

00:51:42.350 --> 00:51:44.770
everyone just kind of doing their part.

00:51:45.070 --> 00:51:50.210
And we said in the beginning, um, I said
in the beginning, how amazing just in

00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:55.390
week one, it's been, it's been pretty
intense, but what's been really, um,

00:51:55.730 --> 00:52:01.820
you know, honestly, heartwarming is,
is all these groups that have reached

00:52:01.820 --> 00:52:03.240
out and just said, how can we help?

00:52:03.465 --> 00:52:04.615
What do you need me to do?

00:52:04.875 --> 00:52:09.675
We have those, those, uh, all of those
relationships, um, established and, and

00:52:09.685 --> 00:52:13.365
everybody is familiar with, with the plan
and we can just hit the ground running.

00:52:13.365 --> 00:52:15.825
So, um, so that's what we're trying to

00:52:15.825 --> 00:52:16.115
Travis Bader: do.

00:52:17.935 --> 00:52:19.025
So how can we help?

00:52:19.025 --> 00:52:22.045
We can submit samples for testing.

00:52:22.045 --> 00:52:28.285
We can get grapefruit spoons, send
those ones on in, we can share this

00:52:28.285 --> 00:52:31.565
with other people so they can point
them to the links, to the website where

00:52:31.565 --> 00:52:33.775
people can, can find this information.

00:52:34.140 --> 00:52:38.900
And, um, join in, join in, in the
conversation and be, be involved

00:52:38.950 --> 00:52:40.880
as we're all stakeholders.

00:52:40.910 --> 00:52:42.480
I mean, it's not us and the animals.

00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:42.780
Yeah.

00:52:42.830 --> 00:52:43.990
It's this is us.

00:52:44.050 --> 00:52:44.600
Absolutely.

00:52:44.710 --> 00:52:45.170
Cait Nelson: It's all about us.

00:52:45.190 --> 00:52:45.510
Yeah.

00:52:45.600 --> 00:52:45.870
Yeah.

00:52:45.910 --> 00:52:48.030
All that input is really valuable.

00:52:48.390 --> 00:52:52.960
We always welcome, you know,
hearing from, from, um, from folks.

00:52:53.100 --> 00:53:00.000
Um, insight, they've
got, you know, questions.

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:04.740
It just helps us to understand
what the concerns are and, and what

00:53:04.740 --> 00:53:06.800
the values are on the landscape.

00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:10.580
And that, that really, um, you
know, guides our, our work.

00:53:10.580 --> 00:53:10.920
So

00:53:12.290 --> 00:53:14.310
Travis Bader: did you want
to, uh, try some rapid fire?

00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:17.725
Like you've been very Thorough in
all of your answers here, and you've

00:53:17.725 --> 00:53:20.425
actually answered a number of the
questions that people have come up with.

00:53:20.425 --> 00:53:20.455
Okay.

00:53:20.455 --> 00:53:21.775
And we can always just refer them back.

00:53:21.805 --> 00:53:21.955
Okay.

00:53:22.225 --> 00:53:24.655
I wanna try rapid fire bunch
of questions from the public.

00:53:24.655 --> 00:53:24.745
Sure.

00:53:24.925 --> 00:53:25.375
Let's do it.

00:53:25.435 --> 00:53:25.735
Okay.

00:53:26.275 --> 00:53:27.085
Answer the public.

00:53:27.085 --> 00:53:31.045
So Jason Subic says, uh, and
I'll condense it, essentially.

00:53:31.375 --> 00:53:36.295
Um, he's in Ontario and they can bait
their whitetail deer over there and

00:53:36.325 --> 00:53:39.175
wants to know thoughts on baiting deer.

00:53:39.180 --> 00:53:39.520
Mm-Hmm.

00:53:39.745 --> 00:53:41.875
and how that relates with chronic wasting

00:53:41.875 --> 00:53:42.145
Cait Nelson: disease.

00:53:42.145 --> 00:53:42.235
Right.

00:53:42.975 --> 00:53:44.895
Oh man, rapid fire this?

00:53:44.945 --> 00:53:45.435
Okay.

00:53:46.355 --> 00:53:46.814
Well, we

00:53:46.815 --> 00:53:48.824
Travis Bader: don't, we
don't have to rapid fire.

00:53:48.825 --> 00:53:49.115
Cait Nelson: Yeah.

00:53:49.115 --> 00:53:49.345
Okay.

00:53:49.345 --> 00:53:50.265
Well, let me do my best.

00:53:50.905 --> 00:53:51.895
Some will be, some won't.

00:53:51.895 --> 00:53:52.205
Right.

00:53:52.275 --> 00:53:52.745
Okay.

00:53:52.945 --> 00:53:59.025
So, so yeah, we've identified, um,
baiting as, and, and consistent with

00:53:59.045 --> 00:54:06.300
other places, uh, in North America that
have implemented, uh, You know, bans

00:54:06.330 --> 00:54:10.360
on baiting because we know that these
baiting bringing animals and we talked

00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:14.410
about this a little bit already, it
has the potential of increasing disease

00:54:14.410 --> 00:54:17.669
transmission and these CWD hotspots.

00:54:17.750 --> 00:54:23.070
So, so it's something that is definitely
on our list of risks and something that

00:54:23.070 --> 00:54:24.970
we would try to, to reduce those risks.

00:54:26.745 --> 00:54:26.775
Okay.

00:54:27.085 --> 00:54:32.435
Travis Bader: Um, here's one,
which is, uh, it was condensed.

00:54:32.445 --> 00:54:33.595
It was very emotional.

00:54:33.605 --> 00:54:39.635
It's a well known, uh, butcher who's,
uh, deals with bovine all the time.

00:54:39.645 --> 00:54:44.475
And he wants to know why there's a
different approach and response to,

00:54:44.525 --> 00:54:49.065
uh, Mad Cow BSE than there is to CWD.

00:54:49.155 --> 00:54:54.085
He says in the UK, at least previously,
they're testing every single beef that,

00:54:54.095 --> 00:54:58.810
that went through, um, And we don't
have that same level of stringency.

00:54:58.810 --> 00:55:01.830
Is there, is that, would
that be a political thing

00:55:01.830 --> 00:55:02.700
that we're not touching here?

00:55:02.700 --> 00:55:06.580
Would that be a scientific thing
that might have an answer behind it?

00:55:07.100 --> 00:55:07.240
I

00:55:07.240 --> 00:55:10.500
Cait Nelson: mean, I, I can, I can
try and respond a little bit and

00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:14.870
again, not super familiar with,
with the response to, to BSE.

00:55:15.250 --> 00:55:20.580
Um, it's, you know, just in general, it's,
it's a different environment to be working

00:55:20.580 --> 00:55:24.250
in when you're working with captive
animals versus free ranging animals.

00:55:24.405 --> 00:55:27.825
It's, it's, you know, there's,
it's apples and oranges, right?

00:55:28.145 --> 00:55:32.975
Um, yes, we want to be testing as many
animals as possible because that provides

00:55:32.975 --> 00:55:37.355
us with really important information
so that we can base our decisions and

00:55:37.355 --> 00:55:43.455
our actions on science and, and that,
that, uh, that data, but, um, but, you

00:55:43.455 --> 00:55:48.405
know, it's, it's not always practical
to, uh, Access every single animal.

00:55:48.595 --> 00:55:53.425
But, you know, we have targeted some
of our efforts, like with our mandatory

00:55:53.425 --> 00:55:57.975
testing under the hunting license
in specific management units in the

00:55:57.975 --> 00:56:02.505
Kootenays that was done because we
identified those as higher risk areas.

00:56:02.505 --> 00:56:07.435
And we really, it was so critical that
we got this information from those units.

00:56:07.915 --> 00:56:10.795
And sure enough, that that.

00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:13.750
Hunting license condition
and the mandatory testing.

00:56:14.270 --> 00:56:16.360
It did exactly what we needed it to do.

00:56:16.410 --> 00:56:19.930
It increased our sample numbers and that's
where we got our first two positive cases.

00:56:20.320 --> 00:56:26.310
So, you know, if, if we didn't have
that, um, that level of information from

00:56:26.310 --> 00:56:27.840
those units, we might've missed these.

00:56:28.310 --> 00:56:30.950
And so, you know, that's,
that's been really important.

00:56:31.020 --> 00:56:35.550
And so we have taken some action to,
to, uh, you know, make it mandatory

00:56:35.550 --> 00:56:39.970
for testing, but for now it's really
been focused in on specific areas.

00:56:41.470 --> 00:56:43.370
Travis Bader: Uh,
turnaround time on testing.

00:56:43.370 --> 00:56:47.760
So when he submits a sample for
testing, process the animal, it's in

00:56:47.790 --> 00:56:50.250
the freezer, it's stored somewhere.

00:56:50.890 --> 00:56:53.330
Uh, what, what does that
turnaround time kind of

00:56:53.330 --> 00:56:53.790
Cait Nelson: look like?

00:56:53.800 --> 00:56:58.560
Yeah, the turnaround on testing
has been, um, a real challenge.

00:56:58.900 --> 00:57:00.724
Uh, I can say that.

00:57:01.025 --> 00:57:05.685
You know, across Canada, um,
there's really a limited, uh,

00:57:05.715 --> 00:57:11.255
capacity in labs that are able to
do the diagnostic test for CWD.

00:57:11.875 --> 00:57:18.535
And as it become, as it's continues to
spread, programs are expanding the, um,

00:57:18.575 --> 00:57:23.865
pressure on these few lab facilities
that do the testing has just increased.

00:57:24.245 --> 00:57:29.385
And so what that has meant for
BC, we've always sent our, um,

00:57:29.910 --> 00:57:34.610
Samples to a lab in Saskatchewan,
and they've been great to us.

00:57:34.610 --> 00:57:38.070
But over time, those turnaround
time on results have just been

00:57:38.250 --> 00:57:41.950
getting longer and longer because
of the demand on those facilities.

00:57:42.050 --> 00:57:45.300
And, um, and, yeah, they're just
there hasn't been their resources

00:57:45.300 --> 00:57:51.705
to, um, To increase that capacity,
uh, you know, in, in the same

00:57:51.705 --> 00:57:53.555
rate that programs are expanding.

00:57:53.945 --> 00:57:54.325
Right.

00:57:54.425 --> 00:57:56.085
And so that has been an issue.

00:57:56.115 --> 00:58:00.235
And I think the last couple of
years were, were our, our worst

00:58:00.235 --> 00:58:02.025
years for turnaround on results.

00:58:02.025 --> 00:58:06.445
And I know that's very frustrating
for hunters and it's frustrating

00:58:06.445 --> 00:58:10.855
for us too, because we want that
information so that we can, um, you

00:58:10.855 --> 00:58:13.115
know, inform our risk and everything.

00:58:13.115 --> 00:58:13.425
Right.

00:58:13.855 --> 00:58:15.185
Uh, so, so we're.

00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:21.330
We're trying really hard to, um, to
streamline that process as much as

00:58:21.330 --> 00:58:25.780
we can with, with, you know, the,
the resources that we have available.

00:58:26.170 --> 00:58:32.020
Um, in the, you know, coming years,
uh, we hope that we're going to be able

00:58:32.020 --> 00:58:34.140
to increase efficiency and testing.

00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:39.860
We're going to be setting up
a, uh, testing, uh, facility,

00:58:40.270 --> 00:58:42.470
uh, at our BC agriculture lab.

00:58:42.830 --> 00:58:46.300
Um, just coming up now, I
think we're going to submit

00:58:46.300 --> 00:58:47.990
our first samples next week.

00:58:48.330 --> 00:58:50.280
And so we're hoping that
that's going to help.

00:58:50.290 --> 00:58:53.550
This is the first time we've
had access to a lab in BC.

00:58:54.000 --> 00:59:01.970
We're hoping that that's going to help,
um, CWD detection, I think, um, you

00:59:01.970 --> 00:59:03.820
know, there's even more support for.

00:59:04.205 --> 00:59:07.985
Forgetting that system, you know, as
streamlined as possible so that we

00:59:07.985 --> 00:59:11.515
can get, have access to that, that
the results as soon as possible.

00:59:13.255 --> 00:59:16.195
Travis Bader: Within the management
plan of CWD, has there been any

00:59:16.195 --> 00:59:21.795
conversation or consideration to re
issuance of a tag if a hunter canceled

00:59:21.795 --> 00:59:23.975
their tag and had a positive result?

00:59:24.375 --> 00:59:24.735
Yeah,

00:59:24.785 --> 00:59:26.365
Cait Nelson: that's a
really good question.

00:59:26.405 --> 00:59:28.045
And of course, it's come up.

00:59:28.085 --> 00:59:32.615
Um, you know, it's something
that we will, you know, consider.

00:59:32.615 --> 00:59:38.125
I'm sure, uh, there hasn't been a lot
of discussion on that front so far.

00:59:38.515 --> 00:59:41.175
Um, but we know from
examples from other places.

00:59:41.495 --> 00:59:43.385
They've been able to do this.

00:59:43.475 --> 00:59:48.755
I know, you know, in Alberta issued a,
uh, replacement tag for a while, um,

00:59:48.815 --> 00:59:56.360
until the number of cases just became,
uh, sort of, um, Overwhelming to them.

00:59:56.510 --> 01:00:00.350
And, and, and in that situation,
it wasn't feasible to issue

01:00:00.350 --> 01:00:01.570
replacement tags anymore.

01:00:01.570 --> 01:00:06.980
So every situation is different and, um,
and we're going to have to evaluate that

01:00:06.980 --> 01:00:11.140
for in the BC context to see what's going
to make sense for, for, for us here.

01:00:12.510 --> 01:00:14.400
Travis Bader: So I butcher my own meat.

01:00:14.530 --> 01:00:15.320
I'm very fortunate.

01:00:15.370 --> 01:00:19.460
My wife's a red seal chef and
part of her training was to have

01:00:19.470 --> 01:00:20.750
butchery training and all the rest.

01:00:20.750 --> 01:00:20.990
So.

01:00:21.635 --> 01:00:23.375
I've got a lot of help
there, which is really good.

01:00:23.465 --> 01:00:30.485
Or maybe she's got help for me, but,
um, but a lot of people don't, if

01:00:30.485 --> 01:00:35.275
you have a CWD animal and you've
taken it to the butcher, and now we

01:00:35.275 --> 01:00:44.225
know about these prions and how they
can transmit, um, what happens now?

01:00:44.355 --> 01:00:50.925
Or do we now have a full butcher,
uh, supply full of animals that could

01:00:50.975 --> 01:00:52.325
have been clean, but are now being.

01:00:52.555 --> 01:00:53.485
Put out with these

01:00:53.485 --> 01:00:54.285
Cait Nelson: prions.

01:00:54.325 --> 01:01:00.805
Yeah, I think, um, uh, butchers have
some pretty strict protocols, um, within

01:01:00.815 --> 01:01:06.995
their, you know, practices that, you
know, decontaminating between, you know,

01:01:07.285 --> 01:01:13.235
animals and, and making sure that animals
are, um, processed, uh, individually.

01:01:13.285 --> 01:01:17.605
Again, I'm not, um, super familiar
with that process, but that is my

01:01:17.605 --> 01:01:21.985
understanding that, um, that, you know,
hunters have to follow some pretty.

01:01:22.525 --> 01:01:25.495
Or rather sorry, meat cutters
have to follow some pretty strict

01:01:25.905 --> 01:01:27.825
standards on that, on that front.

01:01:28.215 --> 01:01:33.405
So yeah, I, you know, obviously if a, if
a CW positive animal is submitted to a,

01:01:33.495 --> 01:01:37.395
to a butcher, you know, there, there would
be some, some follow up and making sure

01:01:37.395 --> 01:01:41.785
that, you know, all the All the Ts were
crossed, but, um, I trust that, you know,

01:01:41.785 --> 01:01:47.215
that, that system, um, you know, their,
their practices are, are dialed and,

01:01:47.225 --> 01:01:52.245
uh, and, and that's sort of their, that
that's, that's their, that's their realm.

01:01:52.775 --> 01:01:53.195
That's their.

01:01:53.225 --> 01:01:53.555
Travis Bader: Right.

01:01:53.575 --> 01:01:54.415
Fair enough.

01:01:54.505 --> 01:01:57.695
So here we have an interesting question
because, you know, a lot of these

01:01:57.735 --> 01:02:02.905
prions are going to be found in the
spine or brain is typical knowledge.

01:02:02.925 --> 01:02:04.835
Now we're learning about
in the, uh, in the.

01:02:05.500 --> 01:02:08.470
Well, when you say the lymph nodes, yes.

01:02:08.550 --> 01:02:15.190
So I, now we don't have confirmed
cases of a transmission from

01:02:15.190 --> 01:02:16.530
the animal to the human.

01:02:16.850 --> 01:02:21.900
It's recommended that the human, if
they have a positive result, that they

01:02:21.900 --> 01:02:25.030
dispose of it and they do it properly,
preferably through incineration,

01:02:25.030 --> 01:02:27.540
through, through the province and.

01:02:29.360 --> 01:02:36.050
Are they able to minimize the spread of
prions through proper butchery techniques

01:02:36.050 --> 01:02:40.410
that can avoid cutting into the spine,
into the brain and then into these areas.

01:02:40.410 --> 01:02:44.580
So if they wanted to make that
educated decision themselves, they're

01:02:44.580 --> 01:02:47.960
rolling those discs, those dice
in a, maybe a more favorable way.

01:02:48.010 --> 01:02:48.490
Cait Nelson: Yeah.

01:02:48.520 --> 01:02:53.640
Well, what we can say to that
is, um, we know that these.

01:02:53.865 --> 01:02:57.655
preons can be present in any part
of the body, but they, they do tend

01:02:57.655 --> 01:03:00.135
to concentrate in certain tissues.

01:03:00.135 --> 01:03:01.565
We call high risk tissues.

01:03:01.875 --> 01:03:04.685
And that includes, you know,
the central nervous system, the

01:03:04.685 --> 01:03:09.535
spinal cord, the brain, um, yeah,
these lymph nodes and organs.

01:03:09.815 --> 01:03:10.675
They do those.

01:03:10.855 --> 01:03:14.725
Those types of tissues in the
body do tend to have a higher

01:03:14.725 --> 01:03:17.375
concentration of prion material.

01:03:17.715 --> 01:03:25.395
And so the advice is that if possible,
limit handling of that, limit cutting

01:03:25.395 --> 01:03:30.675
through, you know, the spinal cord
and, and, um, contaminating your tools,

01:03:30.785 --> 01:03:34.465
um, as much as, as much as possible,
just to limit the handling of that and

01:03:34.465 --> 01:03:37.265
then, um, proper cleanup afterwards.

01:03:37.575 --> 01:03:37.955
Right.

01:03:37.955 --> 01:03:44.565
So, um, decontaminating surfaces, making
sure tools are cleaned, uh, as much as

01:03:44.565 --> 01:03:49.025
we've talked about how these prions are
indestructible, there's actually some

01:03:49.665 --> 01:03:56.185
paper that was published, uh, recently
in the last few years that, uh, indicated

01:03:56.535 --> 01:04:02.115
that a 40 percent bleach solution,
uh, on metal surfaces will help to,

01:04:02.165 --> 01:04:05.725
um, sort of, deactivate those prions.

01:04:05.825 --> 01:04:10.605
And so, uh, so that applies to, you
know, knives and, and, you know, a

01:04:10.645 --> 01:04:14.035
stainless steel, you know, bench,
if you've got something like that.

01:04:14.445 --> 01:04:18.875
Um, so getting a good bleach
wash of those is recommended.

01:04:19.045 --> 01:04:21.155
Um, does it, you know, it, it's not.

01:04:21.400 --> 01:04:25.510
Doesn't seem to be as effective on
other surfaces like concrete or wood

01:04:25.510 --> 01:04:29.220
or, you know, those types of things,
but you know, that's, that's how we

01:04:29.350 --> 01:04:34.620
clean up our, our, um, spaces when we're
sampling is, is a good bleach solution.

01:04:34.620 --> 01:04:39.080
So, you know, just general,
um, general hygiene as well.

01:04:39.080 --> 01:04:41.540
If you can wear gloves when you're
handling this material, wash your

01:04:41.540 --> 01:04:42.670
hands, all that kind of stuff.

01:04:42.875 --> 01:04:45.335
Which is, you know, just kind
of applies to everything.

01:04:45.335 --> 01:04:46.985
But, uh, yeah,

01:04:47.865 --> 01:04:48.815
Travis Bader: 40 percent bleach.

01:04:49.205 --> 01:04:50.375
So I like that.

01:04:50.405 --> 01:04:54.345
I've always used quat, which is what
they use in the restaurant industries,

01:04:54.385 --> 01:04:57.655
but this is probably a cheaper, easier,

01:04:57.655 --> 01:04:57.775
Cait Nelson: better.

01:04:57.775 --> 01:04:58.755
Yeah.

01:04:58.755 --> 01:05:06.325
And, you know, it, I don't think it's, um,
will, uh, get rid of all of the prions.

01:05:06.335 --> 01:05:09.675
Like there's still potential,
but it does seem to help.

01:05:11.495 --> 01:05:12.865
Travis Bader: So here's my question.

01:05:12.905 --> 01:05:15.195
Is there anything that
we haven't talked about?

01:05:18.730 --> 01:05:19.310
Wow, I

01:05:19.310 --> 01:05:22.665
Cait Nelson: think we've, uh,
We've covered a lot of bases.

01:05:22.865 --> 01:05:24.405
I'm trying to think of
what we talked about.

01:05:24.405 --> 01:05:26.505
We've had a good, good
long conversation here.

01:05:27.745 --> 01:05:32.145
Yeah, no, I just, I just really
appreciate, um, you know, I know I've

01:05:32.145 --> 01:05:39.880
already said it, but I just want to
reiterate the, um, how much We value our

01:05:39.880 --> 01:05:45.190
partnerships out there, especially with
the hunting community, um, and, and our

01:05:45.190 --> 01:05:50.420
stakeholder groups, um, they really are
the advocates for wildlife out there.

01:05:50.420 --> 01:05:55.180
And it's, um, it's been really rewarding
in my career to work with those groups and

01:05:55.180 --> 01:05:58.030
see the passion and, and dedication and.

01:05:58.210 --> 01:06:02.300
everyone showing up to volunteer and,
and, and just help out wherever they can.

01:06:02.780 --> 01:06:07.490
Um, so I just, I just, I guess
I just want to say thank you for

01:06:07.490 --> 01:06:09.620
that and, and for that support.

01:06:09.650 --> 01:06:14.870
And just to say, you know, you
really are, um, you really do

01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:16.130
have an important role in this.

01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:23.290
Um, we hope, we hope to, to move through
this CWD situation and, you know, in,

01:06:23.430 --> 01:06:25.630
in lockstep with, with those groups.

01:06:25.680 --> 01:06:30.180
I know everybody is wanting the same
thing and we just, uh, um, really

01:06:30.190 --> 01:06:31.900
appreciate having that support.

01:06:32.050 --> 01:06:32.430
Um.

01:06:32.500 --> 01:06:35.080
So, so yeah, just to,
just to shout out there.

01:06:36.510 --> 01:06:38.790
Travis Bader: Well, Kate, I'm
sure I could speak for anyone

01:06:38.790 --> 01:06:39.870
who's watching or listening.

01:06:39.870 --> 01:06:43.470
We really appreciate you taking
the time to give this information

01:06:43.480 --> 01:06:45.230
in a very thorough fashion.

01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:48.760
And we're going to have links on the
website, links on the description

01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:52.260
so people can see where they can
find more information as it evolves.

01:06:52.260 --> 01:06:55.410
But thank you very much for
being on the Silvercore Podcast.

01:06:55.890 --> 01:06:56.580
Cait Nelson: Thank you so much, Travis.