Trey: Hello and welcome back to another episode of MC Uneed
to know a podcast dedicated to the Marvel cinematic universe
and everything you need to know.
I'm
Jude: Trey.
Trey: Well, Jude I'm excited because after a season of dodging rabbit
holes, we get to bring back in a friend of the pod who specializes in
navigating a myriad of MCU rabbit holes.
I'm delighted to welcome back our resident fan theory expert, and an
always delightful guest, Leecho..
Welcome back Leech.
Leech: Hey, thanks for having me
Jude: welcome leech.
Trey: It's so exciting to have you back on.
I think we cause throughout this Loki season, I think we've been throwing
out a number of references of like, oh, Leech probably jotting this down
or at least just scribbling about this.
So I'm so glad that you're able to, to come on and do
this wrap up episode with us!
I, and, and you were pretty much spot on and every single one of those too.
So I am so glad I'm able to come back in the end and say, Say w w
what happened during all of that?
Cause you know, I've been, I've been not around this whole time, so I'm
very curious to finally talk to you both about all the crazy theories.
How big is the
Leech: notebook?
I mean like this Google docs, a few pages.
So I mean, how much time do we have?
Jude: You know, we're talking about the TV time is relative here.
It's
Leech: all cyclical or
Jude: whatnot.
Trey: The TVA's different podcasting times different we're
in the right place for this.
Well, you know, it's, it's been a while since we've had you on.
So before we jumped into Loki I was wondering if we could just
get some brief thoughts on some of the new things in the MCU.
Uh, we've got a, what if coming up and we had black widows.
Well, uh, what are your feelings on
Leech: those?
Um, to bring everyone up to speed.
I try to stay away from any spoils and I'm not crazy about it.
I'm not like, oh, I have all these, you know, tags up and stuff.
Like, I don't see anything.
I just try to avoid it.
And if it happens, it happens.
Or if it's something crazy casting, I I'll see it, but I try to avoid everything.
So as far as what if I've seen, I think what two trailers now, and of
course I'm pumped, it's incredible.
I think we had an episode and what we talked about animation in
general and just how this is going to look and everything we saw.
And I just am very excited about that, but we also had
black widow and Loki to digest.
So it's kind of like, okay, I'm coming for you later, baby.
I'll be, I'll be right there.
I will be right there.
And let me deal with these people, these kind people for, so I kind of, haven't
really dove too deep into that at all yet.
Not that there really is anything besides the trailers.
It did see black widow.
I thought it was amazing.
I thought it took way too long for that movie to come out and I was
just so happy to finally see it.
And it kind of felt like this weird, not weight off my shoulders, but just
like I wanted it to happen for so long and it just kept getting pushed back.
So it was just that relief, the relief.
It was good.
That's always one of those things like, oh, thank God.
It was really good.
It wasn't for nothing.
I just, I just had a really good time with it.
It, uh, I I'm almost speechless.
Like it was just, it was intense.
It was also fun.
Um, we learned a lot about this character who we all kind of had
a connection to, but not really.
She kind of hung out in the background and I'm really glad we got to learn more.
I'm pretty happy about that.
And it still ended up tying in as well.
Well, so Leech,
Jude: did you see this, uh, Black Widow in the theater or did you go, Disney plus
Leech: I ended up going Disney plus.
Um, one for fear of getting the wrong showing and that happening
again, traumatic experience.
So just, you know, for safety reasons, we have small kids at home, so it's
been also just logistics of that.
It's like, okay, you go today.
I go tomorrow.
It was just stupid on the couch.
Like we have the couch, you know, we've got the big TV, the backlighting
like let's pay for it and watch it.
And it's done.
And I was pretty happy with the experience.
I had no issues with it.
And as much as I really do miss the movie theater experience a
lot, I still don't feel like it would have been quite the same.
So, um, I doingDisney plus
Jude: it's interesting.
There was a big backlash by theaters on from the, from theaters on the
sales, going down the second weekend and blaming the early access.
And just hearing your story, it sounded like if there wasn't early access,
you probably wouldn't have seen it.
Leech: Yeah.
Um, I don't know what, yeah, if I would have, unless it was a very
unique, like maybe a drive-in
Jude: situation.
Yeah.
And it makes me wonder how many people like you that would not have went,
or would not have seen it there.
Those numbers of the high Disney plus numbers.
Might've been a little deceiving.
Leech: Yeah.
I I'm, I'm curious, like I'm really appreciated.
I hope they can continue with it.
Or maybe even after the first week it's out, it's in theaters, but then
the next week, or maybe like the, the over the weekend it's in theaters.
And then like that Monday, I don't know, not this whole three month thing.
What not they've been doing, but
Jude: yeah.
Yeah.
45 days, the three months seems long because I realized that like, it goes to
DVT three months later, but unless you have a black Panther type run, there's
no need to wait that long for streaming.
Leech: Right?
Yeah.
So, I mean, for me, I really, I really appreciated it and being
able to just do it from the comfort of my home, I wanted to see it.
I was going to see it no matter what, and I'm glad.
Yeah.
You know my decision to keep my family safe.
Didn't hinder me seeing it.
So I'm not saying anyone else that went wasn't safe.
I just, I have two kids and I'm paranoid.
So like, no, no, no.
Look outside.
And we get the flu.
So anyone that has like little small kids knows that you just they're
just magnets for any sort of germs.
Jude: Yeah.
Trey: Well, cool.
That's very good to hear and get your thoughts on all the latest MCU stuff.
But of course, if you downloaded this episode, you know, that we were going
to be doing our Loki season one.
Wrap-up so leech, I think because of the precedent and you said we
can, you know, get into the spoiler zone and I'm so happy that you're
finally back on this wrap-up so we can continue this tradition together.
Leech: This is, this is great.
I'm so happy to.
Trey: Well, uh, like we said, we're going to play an audio cue.
And on the other side, we're going to be full spoilers for Loki season one and
everything in the MCU up until this point.
So we'll see you on the other side.
Right.
And Rebecca, so we've put out two of these wrap-up episodes so far.
So we do have a familiar format that we're going to handle this, but since
this show is getting a second season, we added in this section, which is what
are our lingering questions for Loki.
So leech, if we can start with you, what lingering questions do you have?
Leech: All right.
So I have a list and I really wish I had like this Santa Claus
type scroll that I could just unfurl and you all could hear it.
Cause that's how it feels like these bullet points I'm about to reference.
Um, so I did a rewatch, of just all of them sat down and watched them all.
And I kind of, I think I did this in chronological order.
So, um, some things were I want to know why no robots are allowed, if
that's just a matter, of course, that's just a matter of like, you have x-ray
vision and you can see what's going on here and it's all fake or cause
there was a mention of that in the hallway, like, oh, this is all sorcery.
It's like, no, this is real.
When, uh, Loki was getting escorted in by Mobius at first.
And so I'm just kind of wondering if a robot could very easily.
See, and they've had that happen before.
So that's a check.
It's one of those things like don't put the plastic bag on
your head cause you'll suffocate.
Like there's a reason it says that.
So maybe there's a reason we have no robots because something happened
previously and we had to reset.
So that was, I
Jude: wonder, I wonder if that was a dialogue change, I wonder
if it was a dialogue change.
Cause we know.
From agents of shield and I, and one throwaway line in
Avengers life model decoys.
Yes.
So, yeah, I'm just, I'm wondering if, if that was just, if that was the thought
originally and it got changed to robot.
Leech: Very, very true.
Yeah.
I mean, cause that's kind of more all encompassing, cause
it's like, oh you can go robot.
You can go Android, you can go life model decoy.
You can go whatever the heck Vision is at this point.
So, I mean, especially anyone that sat through shield, I mean, sorry
that anyone that watched shield wow.
We'll know that they got pretty heavy into life model decoys.
So I, yeah, it, it really could have just been a generic robots.
It could be absolutely nothing and I've just watched one
division and become paranoid.
So, um, we'll see.
But that stuck with me, that stuck with me through a lot of it.
Cause I looked for that and I didn't see any sort of indicator.
Why anything robotic would be, you know, a threat in this.
Little universe and, you know, in this show and the TVA, so
that stuck with me along with, um, the Aurora check in general.
And I understood it was like, uh, it was, they expressed it before they went
into the grocery store, like, oh, it's for sure a Loki, we checked the aura.
So it's like a thumbprint or like a fingerprint in a way.
But what is that like?
Why aren't you taking just a fingerprint?
Like, I mean, I guess every version, every variants different.
So it's like, if an aura check, I just, that's just, just like, oh, tell me more.
I want to know more about this two second thing we got
Trey: it's just the TVA's vibe.
Jude: yeah.
Yeah.
We gotta make sure.
Leech: Yeah, and it, I don't think there was anything significant about
the scan, but it was just interesting.
I don't know if it's just, we're dealing with things unknown.
And so there's like all these unknown questions rather than like, okay.
Everything you've ever said, cool.
Like that's kind of fun, you know, you get your chicken, your clothes change.
Okay.
We already did that in, um, Ragnarok you know, having that kind of
transformationy thing into your new garb, but, uh, maybe it's just to throw
you off and be like, oh, this isn't just, you know, TSA at the airport.
This is something way bigger.
And we have to consider your aura and we have to consider robots, but that
stuck with me through a lot of it.
And I'm really wondering if there's maybe someone with the
funky aura, that's a robot.
Well, actually in season
Trey: two, it makes me think of two things because.
One, we ended up finding out that the timekeepers were robotic.
So I wonder if there was some sort of like con conflict of interest
of there where maybe robots could just pick up on each other.
And then the other thing now that we know it's he, who remains, I wonder
if he has any sort of like connection to robotics that makes it, makes
him want to just screen for them.
Maybe that'll be fun to keep track of.
Yeah.
Leech: Another one that I had was why don't the powers work?
I don't think they ever explain that.
Is it because they exist outside of space and time?
Is that just the general what we're going to say it is, but
their power's not working at all.
It was kind of wild.
Jude: Yeah.
It's interesting.
Cause you would think the, those powers are something inherent to them.
And so was it like some kind of inhibitor or?
Uh, well, I mean.
Maybe if it was also attached to the, to the Infinity Stones in some ways, and
the infinity stones didn't work and in there, I don't know it, but you're right.
It's I would love to see an explanation for that.
Yeah.
Leech: There might just be, you know, security protocols in place
that just, you know, nothing works here except for our stuff.
But I'd like to know more because everything so far seems to be again the
whole, like don't put the bag over your head, cause you're going to suffocate.
There's reasons why these rules are in place.
There's no powers.
There's no robots.
You have to check your aura like something happened and it wasn't just his variants.
He usually, he who remains see, I almost did it too.
um, so like there's, there's a reason.
He's the last one.
And it might be because the powers are off.
It might be because the stones don't work.
Like he had to go through all these different, if it's everything,
you know, it goes in a circle of time, goes in a circle every time
you learn and learn and learn.
So maybe he learned how to, you know, dampen all that stuff.
I don't know, but it's, it stuck out.
It stuck out through the whole thing I checked.
I, I watched and nothing, you know?
Oh, they use powers here, but not there.
No, it was very strict.
There were no powers at all.
So I'm very
Trey: curious.
Yeah.
It almost feels like a grand scale version of the containment thing
they had for Loki in Avengers.
And it's just, just sort of that suppression technique that maybe
they picked up from watching that
Leech: they, that was the whole container.
Is that what you're talking about?
Yeah.
Well there's also, I was just thinking of the, the, the cell on Asgard that Loki
was, he was still able to use his magic
because remember he made it, he inside, he, you know, everything
looked fine and he was hot mess.
He just couldn't get
Jude: out.
Yeah.
Trey: Technology gets better.
Leech: magic.
No guys come on.
So 10 years ago.
Oh.
And then let's see.
So, okay.
Something that got me.
So I used to TA in the library and so, and I also work in office, the desk job.
So the whole cataloging, I don't know what it was about the labels on
the floors and the rooms and in the library, it irritated me so much.
Cause I could not figure out a pattern.
And I don't know if that was just a sense of, there's like a bajillion infinite
libraries and it's gotten to the point where it looks like, uh, you know, 10.
Digit passcode with, you know, symbols and letters and numbers.
Like, you know, you're just so far out in the system that, of course
it's going to look like nonsense or if none of it actually makes sense at
all, but nobody cares because they're just going through the motions.
And so it doesn't matter if there's labels, they're
just going through motions.
I don't know if I'm looking too far into that, but it was so irritating seeing
like floor SVA next to T2 five, and it's like, this doesn't make any sense.
They're just a floor
Jude: different happening.
I'm curious if that was a set designer thing or a production
designer, prop designer who got to who got to make that choice.
It
Leech: was very, it was very prominent.
Anytime you're in that building, you saw the elevator buttons, you saw
the labeling and the cataloging in the library and it just nothing made
sense, but it also could just have been a part of the bureaucracy of.
The office space.
It could have just been nonsense because the whole thing's nonsense, maybe it was
our first clue that it was all nonsense.
So who knows, maybe it was just, maybe it's just all a front and
that's why it makes no sense.
Jude: Well, for as big and bureaucratic as it seemed and I get, cause it was
six episodes, it felt like that's, you know, Mobius was the only analyst we saw
Renslayer was the only judge that we saw.
We saw
Leech: three other judges.
Yep.
Jude: Okay.
So the one before rinse layer
Leech: and then yes.
And she was a hunter and then we saw two judges in the hallway.
When was it?
Colby was walking back like, Hey, this guy came out of nowhere and
he was talking to two judges.
Hmm.
I check that.
Cause I was wondering too.
You know, okay.
You're more powerful than we are assuming.
And then on the walls in the courtroom, I guess that's what it was.
There were murals of multiple judges, but it didn't seem in a sense
of like, you know, you have past Kings and Queens in their paintings
around the wall kind of thing.
Like the person in that position at the time, it was like this mural of like
a bunch of different judges together.
So I was wondering,
Jude: well, and I think that Linda, what I was going to say is I was
just going to say, it seemed like for as event shattering as this show
was right or Universe shattering, I should say only a very small
fraction of the TVA was working on it.
I have a theory
Leech: about that.
Okay.
This was the God's.
Or this is the soups division of the TVA, and that's why they're dealing with it.
Cause I mean, you got, you got Bob who didn't punch in on time at
work and he's going to get pruned.
You think that like she wants to deal with that.
She seems really high up, she's got trophies, you know, all this other stuff,
they seem to kind of be like, Mobius is working on like the special case.
So maybe she deals with the more upper cases, just based off of like the few
we saw, which were, you know, look some, a couple Loki cases and whatnot.
So,
Trey: and that would fit into with how cause even Kang says like, oh, the highly
bureaucratic TVA, like it would make sense that everything is so compartmentalized.
Oh yeah.
Leech: Oh yeah.
Cause you don't want him to get a big picture either.
You want to keep him busy enough to not ask any questions.
Trey: Right.
Jude: It's very, very office like, oh yeah,
Leech: actually.
Yeah.
I think wasn't there a poster that said like less meetings or more meetings
equals less productivity or something.
So they had a lot of those, those posters everywhere.
Just keep going.
Don't don't ask questions.
Yeah.
I'm trying to think, what else did I have?
Did you guys have anything to add to that?
Jude: Um, I'm curious off of what you just said, Trey and I talked about this
and I don't remember if this was on pod of off pod at this point, but you
have that scene where Loki, um, has a stack of everything he ever said.
How tall do you think your ream of paper would be?
And does that include like emails and texts?
It
Leech: could include for Loki because I doubt he's done very much
emailing and Asgard and texting.
Okay.
Where's Loki been this whole time.
He was.
Yeah.
I mean, it hasn't, I mean, he also doesn't have any friends, like, let's be real.
So who's he really texting right now?
Um, mean, but it could, I think I remember this getting brought up.
I can't remember if it wasn't an episode or in the discord.
It might've been in the discord.
Um, I think so, but I don't know.
And I'd be mortified if, uh, it was like, Here's your Leech pile.
Oh, no.
Trey: Yeah.
I, uh, I'd be very afraid to see my pile, especially now with the podcast.
Jude: Yeah.
Leech: Yeah.
I don't know.
I think, yeah.
I also, I'm curious to know if that's like a test of some sort to be like,
okay, yeah, we can pull this trick off like three times, but this is
the stack we showed the last guy.
Like we don't know, like it's like the challenge, the, the, um, what
is it when you get a new app on your phone, the terms and conditions,
the terms and conditions, challenge.
Like, did you really read it?
Yeah.
You click the box didn't you, you just clicked it and we
just wanted to get, keep going.
So I don't know, maybe it was, it was nothing because that didn't
seem pretty like a pretty small
Jude: stack.
Yeah.
So I think you asked, I think some of the lingering questions for me,
and I don't even know if this is leaving, it brought up in season
two and all the different Loki's.
Uh, so in other words, when somebody got pruned and you were, they were pulled
out of the timeline, um, did another, is that where the variations came from?
There's like another one pop up in its place in, you know, uh, Part of me
really hopes like that was the case.
Cause then I'm curious to, you know, alligator Loki story of like, you
know, this look, he gets pruned and we replace it and I was like,
oh crap, it's that alligator.
And then you just prune it immediately.
Cause it's oh yeah.
Uh, so yeah, I'm, I'm curious about that.
Um, Lincoln questions.
I really hope we get to see more Mobius's story.
Um, and, and to see that, um, I really, I really hope we get
to see lingering questions.
How did the TVA get started?
You know, and I get for a show like this and, and, in universe-wise why they might
not even bother answering that question.
Um, but I'm really curious.
And, and that's the lingering question for me, like, as, as we just talked
about, you know, as you just mentioned, the big bureaucracy that it is.
And the, the hunters, everybody being variants.
Was that like a slow build over time or did like, you know, he who remains just
kind of take a big, broad sweep of people.
Trey: Yeah.
A deeper dive into the mechanics of the TVA would be nice to get, especially, I
know we've been wary about getting into getting stuck in the weeds, but I do think
it would be fun if we do get some more light shed on some of that inner working.
Leech: Feel like we might get that from judge Renslayer because she got
those suggested files and dipped, and I'm sure if she's not in on
it, she's like what is happening?
Cause I like some sort of power and then finding out I have, none is ridiculous.
So I feel like she's going to seek out like some answers and we might
find out how this started through her.
I could see that very easily happening, or maybe that's what's in the files.
And it's like, maybe if everything goes wrong, you need to be the one to start.
You know, you need to be the one who remains like this is, you know, plan B.
Trey: Well, I mean, cause all that information comes from he who remains
like he sent it via miss minutes because Miss Minutes says, oh, he
thought these would be useful to you.
What I think is missing is he who remains not realizing that
Renslayer was having this crisis.
Maybe not a crisis of faith, but like on the doorstep of a crisis.
So you just can't it's
Jude: I might argue that he knew.
Well, yeah.
Cause if that happened before they crossed the threshold, then he had to
Leech: have miss minutes flips back.
Like yeah, she is losing it.
We need to wrap it up like this.
Like now she is okay.
Yep.
I'm getting your file, sweetie.
Okay.
Yeah, she's losing it.
Cutting it a
Jude: little too
Trey: close to the threshold boss
Jude: and 115.
I'm really, you know, I mean the last we saw her was letting the other hunter know
the, that he was a variant by showing, Hey here's Judge Renslayer you know, so
I really would want to see that character story go on because she had really not
a lot of screen time, but a lot of, oh,
Leech: we saw her with Mobius at the end seeing the splits.
Right.
Wasn't that the last,
Jude: yeah.
Yeah, but I, okay.
So I guess in that lingering question, Is that a-we did we see
where they were those different?
Were those variants like, like, like, was it like re, were they reset and
we're looking at the same people that just didn't remember because they had
never experienced what we saw or were they literally he's at a different TVA
now I think, and the ones we saw up until that point still exists somewhere.
The ones
Leech: that I kind of took it, that the ones looking at the monitor,
I think said something along the lines of like he did it or something
that implied there's no going back.
Yeah.
Like they, they knew what was done as in like the ones that we have known, but
definitely the ones at the very end in the library are completely different.
Like a different, yeah.
Uh, and that, and that one is very confusing for me too,
because I don't understand if this is a completely new universe.
I don't understand if time looped on itself at that time.
And when he was sent back and therefore we have started over and we don't have
the option for a different Mobius because there is none because it was overwritten.
And that's when I just stopped thinking about it because my brain started hurting.
Trey: Well, I think that's a perfect place for me to jump in because
this stems, both of this stems off both of what you two are saying.
Uh, one of my lingering questions is what does it mean that Loki is sent
to a universe where there isn't Loki.
So there is this question of Mobius and whether or not they are variants,
whether the same people that got reset, regardless of what that is, they
don't recognize Loki Mobius says like, oh, you're the new analyst, right?
Uh, maybe, you know, he starts motioning over to get people to
help whatever universe this is.
Mobius is not a low-key hunter specialist, whatever he is,
because he doesn't recognize him.
And I'm really wondering what that means for our Loki moving
forward in this season, too.
Yeah.
Jude: Yeah.
Oh
Leech: yeah.
Mobius could be a judge the way that he was being treated in that new space.
I mean, I mean, what was his name?
Um, the lowly office worker.
He didn't even know what a fish was.
So how you know Casey?
Yeah.
Casey, Casey didn't know what a fish was, so I could very
easily see all their minds wiped.
Jude: Yeah.
Well, I saw somewhere, somebody noticed in the credits, he was credited as a hunter.
At the end of that episode,
Trey: when Loki's walking through trying to find Mobius, you can see some Minutemen
rushing in the background and apparently that's where you can see slash hear him.
But I haven't seen it, but I, I have seen, it mentioned like you
Jude online, so things are changing.
I mean, and it's, it's evident because the whole camera turn big reveal is that it's
a statue of Kang and not the timekeepers.
So some things have definitely changed since the last time we were in that space.
Leech: And this might be our.
Next preventative measure the next step, like wipe the existence of Loki.
Loki just never existed at this point.
We'll figure it out.
If you're able to figure out how we can have the infinity gauntlet and
live happily ever after, unless that was just an empty promise from Miss
minutes.
Like we can figure out how to erase Loki and still keep what
needed to be kept for the timeline.
Yeah.
Trey: Well, cool.
So definitely, as you can see, we've got a lot of lingering questions, uh,
as a very excited for the future of this Loki series, but we do want to talk
about this season one in particular.
So Jude starting with you this time, what did you like most about Loki?
I liked that it
Jude: made me think, and that it
challenged me that we both talked about it through the pod about, there
was some episodes where it's like.
Okay.
I'm not sure.
And then the next episode you're like, okay, I'm in, I, you know, I bought in
and then we watched the next episode.
It's like, ah, what?
And then the next episode is, okay, I'm buying it again.
And I liked that looking back that I really struggled with it
and in that way, and really made me, um, it wasn't something I can
just sit and watch and just enjoy.
I had to wrestle with things.
Uh, so in the end, I, I think that's one of the things I
really liked the most about it.
Trey: Yeah.
I think because a lot of times we talked about this going into the
podcast recording, we would have what, 30, 40 minute long false starts,
because we were just caught going back and forth on, on the conversations
that this show was spurring.
And I mentioned, regardless of what we feel, that's really
cool that this show can do that.
But, uh, what about you leech?
How, what did you like about Loki overall?
About Loki?
I
Leech: really, I really, really liked how they have been consistently
adding these just new characters with minimal screen time.
And we fall in love with them, or we want to know more.
And then while doing that, developing this character who just acted like an
absolute brat in Avengers, and then having this insane amount of character
development and just like one episode, like it almost just all happened in
one episode, I would say by the third one, it was, we were almost at like end
game Loki or I guess infinity war Loki
But, um, it, it was just kind of wild how we had all that progression,
but then at the same time, we still had enough time for the show to
teach us about this new threat and.
Hold our hand through it.
It was just like, here's the context here's what's happening.
Oh, here's a good way to measure the scale of the threat is the infinity
stones just being paperweights.
And we're seeing and building upon this and just the fact
that they're able to do that.
And I was so invested in this show and it's just six hours.
Well, meanwhile, it took decades, you know, to lead up to end game, or I
guess not quite decades, but you know, it took a long time to get there.
It took a really long time.
Trey: The wait in between movies felt like,
Leech: yeah, really did.
And I just, I just really appreciated that because honestly, I didn't have
that connection with Thanos at all.
Like I, I knew there was this.
I knew that existed somehow, somewhere I've heard of it before.
I didn't really feel like we got much of him at all.
I really didn't understand any of that in guardians of the galaxy,
the first couple of watches.
And it wasn't until I sat down and watched them all.
It's like, okay.
Yeah, there's some mention and whatnot, but I didn't
really have a good feel of it.
You just kind of felt like a jerk, but, uh, this is like, you know,
we all know what we're facing now.
Yeah.
And this is, this is beyond us
Jude: hearing,
Trey: even hearing you phrase it, uh, we know what we're dealing with now.
Just maybe shiver because the MCU has got a huge threat on its
back for the foreseeable future.
Jude: Yeah.
Leech: Yeah.
Like just, just watching the timelines splinter, it's just like, oh no,
this is either we're introducing X-Men or we're like, you know, I
don't know what's happening anymore.
Like any, literally anything can happen now.
And I just, and that's great.
I'm here for it.
I'm down for the ride.
Trey: Yeah.
I think for me thinking about what I liked about this season one
overall, despite it making it a pain to do the most important topics.
I love that it was very dialogue driven.
Yeah.
I know there were some times where I had my qualms or I was like, oh,
you know, I, I, it feels like we're kind of retreading here or there.
Uh, from a previous episode, I still like, I'm a sucker for those types
of storytelling where it's just, you know, 1, 2, 3 people in a room just
having a conversation and it's engaging and it keeps me glued to the screen.
And this show did that frequently throughout the season.
And I don't think it's a very, uh, Easy task to do.
Uh, so I do appreciate the show, being able to do that.
And it kind of fits in what we've talked about before with WandaVision
and Falcon in the winter soldier.
In that I almost don't want these Disney plus shows to tackle big things.
Like I like these smaller stuff, but as I feel that I also feel the
contradictory nature of it because the entire MCU just got blown wide
open with the multi-verse stuff.
But there's something about this, the way this show handled, those smaller
moments in our, let me rephrase that the way this show handled those big
moments in a smaller way, like their handle on the scale was a lot more
consistent for me throughout the season.
Yeah.
I really enjoyed that about it.
Jude: Yeah, you're right.
Like there was, it was very forgive the phrase down to earth, you know?
I mean, just cause we followed Loki like I felt like it was very
linear because you're just following low-key all the way through.
But the, the scale that we got in terms of ramifications was huge.
Trey: Yeah.
And it seemed like the show, no matter how big the scale got always found a smart way
to pair it in an easily digestible way.
I think the best example is whenever we first get introduced to the TVA at
all, uh, we talked about in episode two, how brilliant it was that they
paired, Loki learning the ins and outs of the TVA's, uh, workflow.
I can't think of a better word right now, but he was being
quizzed by the other minute men.
And I thought that was just such a brilliant way for them to introduce
those large concepts in a small way.
And they just did that throughout the entirety of the season.
Leech: Yeah.
And that, that intro video, that welcome video.
And, you know, what's kind of fun about that too.
Is that, that video wasn't lying.
It just omitted some details.
But it was exactly what you know, was said at the end.
Like, you know, things were crazy.
So we had to, you know, get the timekeepers to straighten it up
pretty much the same story, but omitting some pretty key details.
So that was kind of interesting.
It wasn't like this big grand lie of whatever it was pretty true.
So
Trey: all builds to that wonderful moment where he remains
does the, the amen singing it.
And it's like, ah, this is where the bat is
Leech: stare in awe and slap him when you did that.
I was confused.
Like, I didn't know how to feel.
It felt like this person was like, had the most senior itis kind of
feeling of just like this, whatever.
I don't care.
I don't work here anymore.
I put, my two weeks are already like, I'm done, I'm exhausted, but also kind
of this, like, you can't touch me.
And just the power behind just that whole dialogue was insane.
Trey: You describing Kang with senior-itis might be my new thing.
Oh, that's fantastic.
You know, I, I think that's a, a good sample of the things that we liked
about Loki, but the next section that we have for this is what are some of
the biggest disappointments of Loki.
And this time we can start with me and, you know, it's funny.
I, I had a very hard time in this section just because I know there was
moments throughout the episodes where I was frustrated, but trying to pin
it down to like, oh, this is a biggest disappointment part was, was hard for me.
What does disappoint me is the speed at which the show set up and
then disregarded cool plot hooks.
So we had things like the bombing of the timeline or the DB
Cooper thing, or the president.
Loki like all these felt like such cool hooks.
And they came and went so quickly, which given that this is like a, an ongoing
series, we only have six episodes and this show had a lot on its agenda.
I understand it's not going to be able to explore every nook and cranny, but
there were these, these, this feeling of like, oh, I would've liked to have seen
a little bit more of that or not just be a little bit throughout the season.
It was
Leech: the quantum leap misidrects and that, I agree that that was
my biggest issue as well, that there are these amazing hooks
and we just, it just went womp.
Like that was it.
There's your, there's your minute of it.
You technically, still got it, but it wasn't how you thought at all.
And I'm, I'm, I'm disappointed, but I'm okay with it because
if it's predictable, then.
You know, I, I can sit there and try to predict it all day.
I did that in black widow and I hate who I become sometimes when I watch Marvel
stuff, I'm like, oh man, they're going to jump off the thing and do the stuff.
Nope, Nope.
I was totally wrong.
Okay.
Well, I feel like a jerk and I'm just talking to myself now, so it's okay.
I'm just here in my living room.
Thank God.
I'm not in a theater, but uh, I like that.
I, I try to do that and I feel like I know it's coming and it's not,
and it surprises me still on it.
I both am disappointed that we didn't see, like, I want him to see so much
more president Loki that it was just that I was trying to figure out how
it was going to connect and it just turned it into this, just a little
thing real fast, but it made sense.
And so it was just kind of like mad, but you're right.
Not happy about it.
Jude: No, I understand that feeling because I think for my
disappointment is very similar to that.
And it's a mix of like, what were my expectations?
And it's interesting in the assemble documentary, uh, the writer even
said in his pitch, he wanted to not do the quantum leap thing.
And that's kind of what I was in a way expecting, I think, and this is, is just
as much of a compliment, is it about disappointment, but I was so disappointed.
And so much I didn't get to see.
And, and, and part of it is like you said, you didn't get enough
President Loki we didn't get enough of this, or or enough of that.
But I think part of that feeling, well, that's something
I was really disappointed in.
It does a show how good a job they didn't building out a world.
That was interesting, you know, so sort of put a positive light on
that, but that was definitely, you know, he listened to these episodes.
I got bogged down in the mechanics, you know, and wait, you set up
the rules of your world is this.
And then you did that.
And that doesn't make sense.
You know, I think those were some of my biggest disappointments,
Trey: you know, if I can throw one more, that just came to me and it
stems from what you were talking about.
Judas framing it as like, um, almost a compliment like, oh, this is a sign that,
you know, it was so well done that you wanted more, I'm torn between if this
is what it is on this one, which is.
I wish we would have gotten a little bit more of Sylvie.
I think Sylvie does have a pretty consistent and great
arc throughout the show.
We, we traced her journey towards that inability to let Kang go at the end.
But I think that moment would have stood out more.
If we would have gotten a little bit more origins on her.
Um, again, we're getting a second season.
I'm sure these are things that would have been X that will be
explored in season two, but I wish we got a little bit more here.
Leech: We still don't know her nexus event.
Trey: You know, this is something that Jude and I have been talking about.
How, how do you feel about that theory that her nexus event was
that she was, was being selfless?
Leech: I think her nexus event was encouraging piece.
Or, you know, like getting the idea that like, you know, falling in love with the
idea of peace compared to like, you know, um, I don't know what Thor played with
GI Joes or whatnot, but I mean, instead of just like pew pew, and this is just
the way it is and I got to make daddy proud, it really could have just been
like, you know, cause it was, I tried to look a bit, it was like Valkyries and
ships and um, what's hell was dog's name.
Um, Hmm.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I can't remember, but I saw like this Wolf figuring a very large one out
of proportion of the rest of the toys.
So I wasn't sure if it was like, you know, this place where there is, you
know, in this, you know, universe, there was peace with Hela and, you
know, cause we found out Odin had to, you know, Odin went dark with hella
and they murdered like everyone.
Um, maybe, you know, maybe peace was overall more promoted and maybe there
was a fine line between, you know, if Loki went the Loki way and it
ended up ending up the way it had, it should be and Ragnarok and whatnot,
or if Loki tilted towards more peace, because that's just who Sylvie was.
And because it made it maybe went more towards peace.
Nope.
You're going to be peaceful.
All right.
We got to, it might be up right now.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I'm I'm very curious though, because it has haunted her, her whole life.
So it couldn't have just been something as simple as that, because that would
have been, I mean, she's a variant, she knows there are multiples of
her multiple Loki's everywhere.
She would have gone down that list, but maybe it's just dialing it down to
exactly what it was just haunts her.
Jude: Well, and it does make me wonder, I mean, we're assuming
there was a nexus event.
Hmm.
The only why I say that is because like at the end, you know, he said
he was looking for somebody, um, he, who remains, was looking for
somebody to replace them, replace him.
And he's like, I came in the two of you.
And if he had the knowledge of all the different scenarios, I don't
know if she needed the nexus of it.
Leech: Oh, I think that'd piss her off even more.
Trey: Yeah.
Jude: Older for that, for that sake of like hoping of, of, you know, finding
Leech: that right.
It's just, it's just going to be easier to prune you as a child, and
then you're just gonna float around and it just makes the paperwork a
lot easier to just do it like that.
That's the only reason we stole you from your parents and
made you live in apocalypse.
Jude: Let's go back again, go back to my getting bogged down
in the mechanics of the show.
If he knew everything that was going to happen, he had to know
that she was going to escape,
Leech: but make that happen though, because everything led toward
to per showing up at his door.
Jude: Yeah, he, remember, he said it, I paved the road, you just walked
Trey: it.
And it would explain.
Cause we even talked about it.
Jude, whenever she escapes, everybody's just kind of standing there.
So that would kind of shed some light on that.
If that's, if there's like a decree from on high of like, Hey, you
know, send this person on their way.
Yeah.
Which by the way, did a quick Google search, the Wolf is named fin rear.
Oh, there you go.
Jude: Thank you.
Leech: I mean, he felt right, honestly, it's like the bone
sticking out of the side.
That just, it just resonated fluffy.
Plus
Jude: we have a dog and well, the dog has a name.
We have a variety of names and I'm sure at some point Hela called the dog fluffy.
I'm sure
Trey: it's now canon yeah.
Jude: Oh
Trey: man.
Well moving into the next section.
It is a pretty easy question.
Did Loki work for you?
Uh, leech.
We're starting with you again this time.
How did it do?
Leech: I would say it did, um, The buildup from end game and figuring out like what
happened to Loki and just having that question answered, but not only answered.
And it was built upon, like this whole thing was built upon that
as we find out in assembled, it's like, that is crazy to me.
I feel like they're lying.
Honestly.
I feel like they have this plan 30 years in advance.
I swear it's under lock and key and the Disney vault, like there's
no way it was just this like, oh, he's doing so good at Loki.
Let's just, let's just add to it a little or just like throw this in a little and
then we'll, we'll build on it later.
There's no way I, it all just, it all feels like this
grand plan and I, I loved it.
It worked for me.
It gave me what I wanted.
I wanted more Loki and I wanted, um, more characters to fall in love with.
I wanted more female characters fall in love with, um, And I got that.
And I also got this new baddie that is going to, I feel like tie a lot of things
together and give us this next generation.
And I'm really excited for that.
And I love that, that that feeling, it gave me, it gave me that like the,
you know, the, the kind of chills you felt when the Avengers first
assembled, but I guess unofficially because Steve didn't actually say it,
but, um, but, uh, when you had that feeling, it's like, okay, here we go.
Like, that's kind of how this is felt.
It's this big ramp up and I'm okay with it because it's delicious.
Trey: Awesome.
Well, dude, what about you?
Jude: Yes.
Listen,
Trey: I've had very similar yeses in one division and a flat out no, and
Falcon, so we know how to interpret yesss
Jude: okay.
Uh, I told friend Daniel, this, I think this is of the three
Disney plus shows the best one.
Wow.
I would say though, WandaVision still my favorite, because I love the concept,
but in terms of like start to finish once, once I'm able to step back and
watch the assembled show, I love the Assembled documentaries because it
helps me kind of give some context of getting to see the ideas and the
creators and what they were thinking.
Um, and, and cause I, I always find it even if I don't like it or agree with it.
It's kind of like the ending to how I Met Your Mother.
It was a terrible ending, but the creators created exactly what they
wanted to create from the start and for them to accomplish that and be able
to do that, I think is really cool.
And so from that standpoint, start to finish work.
I think this is the best one.
So far of the Disney plus shows, um, did it fully work for me in no only
in that I just, they, I kept getting lost in the mechanics of the world.
And I think because of that, I think it didn't work for me.
Um, and, and that's probably more, not probably that's more my hangup.
And just me being me and what I took out of it, then I think the show itself,
Trey: you know, I was thinking about it.
I've, one, I am genuinely shocked that your answer was yes, I was.
I was curious to hear what it was going to be in this, but, um, I was thinking about
how, as much as we've been talking about that finale, being a setup for what's to
come, what's that going to be like for you in the future with these, when these other
movies start delving into the multi-verse, because this is where it feels like
the mechanics have been laid out.
Um, so yeah, it's good to hear that, yes, this did work, but hopefully the mechanics
are something that gets ironed out as we move forward through these iterations.
Well, or
Leech: even, you know, I think you talked about this last episode,
they think it was brought up that.
You don't have to watch the shows.
You can just watch the movies and I'll make sense.
So I'm really curious to know, like the next movie, if it will make sense.
Trey: I, I don't know, like that's the second time today that I've
heard that that's their aim for these Disney plus shows to be
connected, but in consequential, I don't know how you do that.
Especially after everything that's happened in this Loki finale.
Um, we know, uh, because it's been confirmed that Wanda will show up in Dr.
Strange multi-verse of madness.
Like there's just too much going on for this, not to connect upwards as well.
Right.
Jude: Well, I will say that like,
I want them to be required viewing, like, I think it, I think it was a benefit
to civil war, infinity war in game that you had to have seen the other stuff.
Yeah.
You know, try and trying to take the, you know, they had a brief scene in infinity
war where banner had the dialogue to kind of get you caught up really quickly.
You know, like here's the cliff notes of the infinity stones and
all that stuff, which we really didn't need as an audience.
Uh, but you know, they, they made it work.
I I'm okay if it worked, if it, if these connect to the others and it's,
and it's required viewing, um, and I, I kind of hope it, it goes that way.
I'll be, I'll be really impressed if they can find a way to make it
work without this being required.
Viewing.
Leech: I think the person that doesn't like the casual Marvel viewer is
just kind of along for the ride and they're not asking too many questions.
So I feel like if they just kind of get that well, like it's a multi-verse okay.
That's like multiple universes okay.
Like, let's keep going.
Like, I feel like if they just get enough, maybe it's like a quick
debrief or like we're walking rushedly in the hallway and like, oh yeah.
It's the dah dah, dah, dah, dah.
Okay.
Yeah.
We're all caught up.
Okay.
Let's keep watching.
Like, if that's all it is, that might be all they need, because
that is, that is my husband.
He's like, what's happening.
Oh, it's the thing with the stuff.
Okay.
Yeah.
Let's keep going.
Like I don't, I don't care
Trey: wrong.
Isn't he?
The one, I think you told me he watched in game.
Leech: He's retro chaotic viewer.
Um, he does that.
He does chaotic watches and it blows my mind.
We recently played a video game in creative mode.
It's like last night and he just ran straight for the boss.
He didn't even think was like, okay.
Where's the boss.
I'm like, oh my gosh.
Okay.
So he just is chaos.
Um, I
Jude: have
Trey: a cousin who may top this, they went and saw black widow loved it.
I was talking to them about it.
They were all about it.
And it was really, really exciting.
They went and they saw it again with her mom and their brother.
And they were like, oh, I stayed for the, the end credits this
time, I can't believe she died.
And I was like, Wait, you've seen in game.
Right.
And she goes, no, I haven't even seen infinity war.
She started with black widow and that's how she found out that
Natasha died was through the , which she forgot to watch the first time
Leech: then would that be black widow then iron man 2
and like how would that
Trey: She somehow broke
Jude: the timeline?
How would
Leech: it be?
What would be the black widow order?
Oh, I'm so curious now.
Cause now I want you to suggest the black widow order and then just like,
Jude: did she break timeline or was this after last Wednesday's
episode after the threshold
Trey: yes, it actually was.
No, that's fantastic.
Which
Jude: virtual we live in.
Ma'am stop.
Trey: You could see, I was trying to get us out of that.
I'll say this.
She has, she has gone back and started with iron man.
So she's working her way through, but I've been tickled and waiting to share that.
Leech: That sounds, that sounds wild.
Did you go through that whole ride and to be like, oh my gosh, she died.
Jude: Well, just imagine if she never saw that and the
next black widow comes out and.
She's not in there and it's just like, oh, okay, it's a recast.
Trey: So maybe, maybe we're putting too much necessity in
these shows needing to effect.
Leech: If it's like, you want to know more or you can go back and watch it.
You know, I kind of felt like that with the chronological watch of these movies
and how there was a lot better context to things instead of like guardians
of the galaxy, nothing makes sense.
And it's like, oh, you watch it in order.
Everything makes a lot more sense.
So, um,
Jude: well, and we hear stories about people that watched,
uh, WandaVision oh, cool.
And then they go back and start getting into it.
So
Leech: yeah, I think it really like, it's one of those, if you
want to know more, you, you have all the tools in front of you.
It's called Disney plus like there's everything except for Spiderman,
um, and Hulk but that's okay.
Um,
Jude: wow.
Leech: Uh, but, uh, yeah, I, I feel like,
Jude: you know what, I'm really hoping.
What if episode number two focuses solely on like whole incredible Hulk,
Trey: because I don't think, have we seen any Hulk representation in the what-if
Jude: trailers?
I don't think so, but I just think what
Leech: if that second episode would be great actually does
help super soldier serum.
And he just turns into the new captain America.
So you never see Hulk cause it's just Bruce.
And so instead of Steve Rogers, you have Bruce banner.
Jude: Bruce
Leech: y'all want to hear about quantum physics, finger guns.
Yeah.
I feel like he would just be like a big nerd, but like a big nerd, like, okay.
Steve at least was humble.
I'm going to, I'm going to go off on a tangent here.
Steve was humble and you know, he's Steve, but I feel like Bruce, like if he got like
a six pack, I feel like he'd lean into it.
Trey: Listen, we almost know it's a, for a fact he was dabbing in Avengers end game.
So you're spot on it.
Then
Leech: I forgot how much of a daddy was an end game.
Jude: Okay.
Leech: Wow.
I feel like, oh God.
Okay.
So I just watched Avengers this morning.
I feel like he was very different in Avengers versus end game.
I feel like, I feel like Ragnarok and all that just changed him so much.
Trey: I'm sure a massive amount of time with the grand
masters going to do that too.
Jude: Yeah.
Trey: Well getting back to the episode, uh, I think I it's left to me to answer if
Loki worked for me and to put it simply.
Yes.
Uh, I know there were a lot of rabbit holes that I kept falling down through.
Uh, but as a whole, I liked Loki a lot.
Um, you know, I, I started to talk about this a little bit last
week, but we just ran out of time.
I, I wanted to mention that the thing that I kept coming back to
WandaVision and Falcon and the winter soldier, was this feeling that.
The story wasn't complete.
And so there's a part of me that feels a little hypocritical
that I'm here with Loki.
We're literally, we know the story isn't complete and it's working for me.
And it made me reflect that knowing we're getting a season two, help to
alleviate a lot of those problems that I had in one division and Falcon,
like I know that those characters will pop up in other movies, but there's
something different about knowing we're coming back to the same space, the
same characters and continuing these storylines that just made me excited
to ponder on the stuff that came in season one, ponder what comes next.
And I don't know, I liked that a lot.
And the other thing is I think this show is also.
With, you know, we said earlier, it had this agenda that it needed to set up
this multi-verse and he who remains.
And I think it, it, it had a delicate balance between paying, I
guess, homage to the infinity saga while setting up this would, I'm
going to call the multi-verse saga.
And I think it handled that really well, too.
Um, you know, I mentioned earlier the, the way that this show played
with power scales, it worked for me.
So yeah, that that's, that's what lends to my, yes, Loki worked for me answers.
Leech: It's weird.
I definitely had the like it's limited series for WandaVision that like stress
of like, how's this going to end?
I was just going to wrap up and I definitely had that
Falcon and the Winter soldier.
It's like, when's he going to get the shield?
Like, come on now.
Like it's gonna happen.
It's just a matter of if he's going to get the serum or not.
That's all we're here for.
And I was waiting and waiting, waiting, but this show, I felt like it was just
so everywhere in a good way, like, just because of the time concept.
And they just kept bouncing that.
I didn't really question if there is a second season until the last
episode where I'm just like, why are we introducing a brand new character?
This is making a sense.
And you kind of going off of that.
And then they revealed at the end.
There'll be a second season.
Jude: Well, I think also we didn't have anything really to look forward.
I mean, that sounds bad.
We,
Trey: so did this show work for, you
Jude: know what I mean?
But what I mean by that is we knew Sam was going to become Cap and get the shield.
Right, right.
Like what, like, how are we gonna wrap this up?
You know, WandaVision limited series, and I don't think it was ever it wasn't sure.
Is this a limited series?
Is it not?
Loki's not getting, you know, does he get his horns like, like you don't, you
don't know what the end is going to be.
And so I think that had kind of an advantage.
Yeah.
Also I think the show worked better because it felt like a TV series,
a limited, uh, mini series rather than a movie chopped into six
Leech: parts.
Yes.
I was going to bring that up because watching it today, it definitely had
the beginning and the end of each episode, it did not just keep flowing.
It did not pick up the second it left off.
And that was, it felt like it did when he had to wait a week.
But watching them back to back that was it cut off, done.
It had that mic drop at every episode.
Yeah.
Trey: And I think on an individual episode level, this series had a very strong
handling of a character story circle.
Um, I don't know if it ever made the recording of a podcast,
but that was something that we talked about, Jude, where yes.
Maybe we may not be fully on board.
It was very early on in the season.
We may not be fully on board with the mechanics of the show, but one
thing I do appreciate is these writers taking a character and bringing
them through the process of, uh, of a change by an episodes end.
And the thing that I think.
This show also handled well, because we, we talked about it in our Daredevil runs.
Um, you know, not only do you have to complete a story circle for an
episode, you also have to complete a story circle for the season.
So you can't ever fully close it at the end of an episode.
And I think this show handled that as well.
So, yeah.
Well with that being said, I think we can move into the next section, which
is what was our favorite episode?
So Jude starting with you this time, what was your favorite episode?
Jude: The finale.
So this had, for me, this kind of had that AB cadence that we talked about a
nerd Daredevil, um, and, and it wasn't full AB, but it's like, you would.
How do I explain it?
We had went through the pie that we called filler episodes, and
that was kind of unfair episodes.
Yeah.
I mean, it was kind of unfair to call them filler, um,
because it was dialogue driven.
You learned a lot about the characters, they learn a lot about themselves and
this finale don't, you got to see the fruition of all of those, those they had
with each other, those conversations.
And, um, Jonathan majors was fantastic, you know?
And so, so I think that's what made this episode.
My favorite is getting to see the, the change in a real, a real way.
Like, oh, this is.
Th this is how it impacted them and kind of follow through on that.
So, so that's the things I liked the most about the finale.
Trey: Yeah.
I think adding Jonathan majors is a huge buff to any episode.
So.
100% get that.
But what about you Leech?
What was your favorite episode?
Leech: I'd have to say the first one, because it was the most impactful
cause I had no idea what I was getting into, you know, with this show.
I, you know, I thought it was going to be a romp through space and time.
And then you have this like very humbling moment at the end of it.
And also if anyone's got any free time, watch Avengers, then watch the first
episode because seeing the transition of iron man totally burning him and
then Hulk whipping them and calling him a puny God, and then getting picked
up, like thinking you're out like, oh, like I took completely failed this
hostile takeover and I suck times two
now this is the second time I failed.
And then getting swept away thinking you've you've escaped for the
millionth time as you always do.
And then to be told no.
You have not, and you are the most insignificant speck of dirt on my shoe.
Like him going through all of that in a span of like a few hours and kind
of like having that impact compared to just like, okay, look, he's out.
Let's watch.
Loki like having that back to back.
And then the whole, like gravity of the infinity stones at the end of episode,
one, just like, oh yeah, we, some of the guys use those as paperweights.
Like just, it was a very powerful moment.
And I feel like that just resonated with me a lot.
And that's why episode one is my favorite.
Jude: You know what, I bet you, there's someone out there that took the
Avengers and edited in, like it took the original Avengers movie and then
did the proper editing with Endgame and.
The episode one and just made that flow naturally.
That would be
Trey: amazing.
And I want it
Leech: that hard.
I wouldn't, it would just be a little adding some end game stuff.
Yeah.
Cause that's another thing.
Okay.
Where does, where does Loki sit on the timeline on the Chronicle
on a chronological watch?
Is it right after end game?
Is it when it aired?
Like it's so confusing to explain that to people that are just kind
of interested in Marvel, it's like, well, pushes nose up on glasses or,
Jude: yeah.
So when my wife sat down to watch this episode, And it
starts with the in game stuff.
And she's like, Hey, wait, pause.
And I paused it.
And she's like, so when within the timeline does this take place?
And I just started laughing, I was like, let's watch the episode first.
Leech: Do we plan on getting to bed at a reasonable hour this evening?
Trey: See, this is what you have to do.
Now you have to watch in game on one screen.
And then as soon as that split happens, you have to pull up another
screen and start watching Loki.
And now you're watching two screens at once.
And by the time you get to Dr.
Strange and the multi-verse of madness, you're going to have like six screens
just going on watching so many Marvel
Leech: joking, but I would not be surprised at all, if that
was a way of watching, what's going to be happening next.
Like, okay.
I'll, I'll, I'll take that bait.
What if Wanda hears her children because of the multi-verse
because everything's done
Jude: that's I think that's been confirmed, right?
Leech: Has it been.
Oh,
Trey: that'd be lovely.
I don't know if it's been confirmed, but I know people have been talking about
the way Loki and one division sync up.
But I
Jude: haven't had the two finales sync up.
Leech: Yeah, yeah.
Sitting in front of like 10 screens and all of a sudden, like this
show ends or is about to end.
And like that one starts popping up and like, you know, it's like it
happening in tandem and like, oh, this one pops up and happens in tandem.
Like, oh man, if I had a million dollars.
That's apparently what my priority would be.
Jude: It's it's, it's basically, we're talking about like the
NFL Sunday ticket, right?
Like that was the idea to watch all the games simultaneously on multiple screens.
All we wanted to just to watch all the Marvel content synced
up at the same time, someone
Leech: will make it somewhat.
Someone on Reddit has probably already made it.
Trey: Well, people sync up movies to happen at at like,
people want Tony to snap right.
At midnight, new years somebody.
Jude: Oh
Leech: yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I'm going to look it up.
I'm very curious because I think that'd be really fun.
Jude: So let's see.
So leech episode, one's your favorite?
Yep.
Trey: My favorite episode, trying to go, yes.
I'm going to go all the way back to Falcon and the winter soldier episode six.
No.
Uh, my favorite episode is episode two.
Uh, you know, I talked about how I love this series handle and the story
circle, both the in episode one and the season story circle as well.
Episode two, I think was incredibly beautiful because Leech you talked about
how he stripped Loki of everything.
This was a broken man coming into episode two, and I like that they take
him from finding purpose, kind of still trying to find his way out of this, but
then genuinely being proud of the work that he was accomplishing with Mobius
and then bringing him back again to.
Uh, following Sylvie into that time portal, like, it was just a beautiful
circle of his journey within one episode that I absolutely loved.
And as much as I enjoyed the chemistry between Mobius and Loki I think this
was their strongest episode together.
Like there was a lot more cathartic moments towards the end, but as
far as how well they work together, episode two, um, was the one for me.
And it was one of the ones I think, outside the finale, just because
of the larger impacts of the MCU that, that is setting up episode
two, I think is one of the ones that I came out of the most excited.
Jude: Yeah.
Well, you know what, and that makes sense.
Cause like, for me, I liked episode two a lot, and it was that episode where
at the end of the first episode, I remember saying like, depending on how.
Predestination freewill.
I might not like the show.
And then season, episode does season two, episode two got me sucked in, right.
Like, okay.
I bought it.
Uh, and then I had my problems and went back and forth and it felt like
the finale and actually the second to last episode and the finale
together, both kind of had me in.
Right.
And so that, so that makes complete sense of, of, of why you'd go to,
Trey: yeah.
It was really hard to not have a favorite on any of them, because I was also torn
between four, but I think two, one out in
Leech: the end two, two was really fun too, because he was just like, I'm lucky.
I'm like super cool and magical.
And everyone's like, I don't care.
Why are you talking to me?
And I, that was just really fun to see it.
For me, it didn't, it kind of just came off like, oh, he's,
he's playing, Loki's being lucky.
Okay.
But going from again, Avengers, episode one, and then into two,
he's just so insecure at this point.
He's so horribly insecure and it's just not him being, you
know, tropey Loki it's, it's true.
It's a very insecure,
Trey: I see a plan.
And in that plan, I see myself
Jude: purpose.
Trey: That's fantastic.
Well, I think that's a good summation of our feelings on season one of Loki.
Um, but before we end this, Leech we wanted to do something fun, which is
kind of go through the MCU overall and pick some potential pruning scenarios
in all of the previous movies.
So do you have any.
Um,
Leech: so I really wanted to think of a lot for like one, for each character,
but it turned out, it was like, I tried to get out of the whole, like,
instead of them dying, they lived, or instead of them living, they died.
Like I tried to get away from that and go into like smaller little
things that could have happened.
Like those butterfly effect things.
Um, so, um, it would have been interesting if, uh, pepper.
Quit.
Ooh.
Um, if pepper just straight up quit, like Pepper, just like, no, I'm not going back.
This is an abusive relationship.
This isn't banter and I'm out.
And so that, I think that would have had some pretty ridiculous ripple effects.
Yeah.
Um, that was, that was when I was like, oh cool.
Nobody died in that one king king to Chaco was my big, like what if he lived?
Um, that one would have been very interesting because there were a
lot of things that happened after, you know, to establish black
Panther, um, after that death.
And so that one, I think was my big, like, okay, I'm not letting this one's slide.
This is the one that's like, you know, lives or dies.
Like this is the one I think would be the most impactful.
What was another one?
Let's see.
Oh, banner doesn't accept.
Natasha's offer to join the Avengers.
And he just, he's just like, you're ridiculous.
I will kill you.
Get out of my, get out of my face and cause he could have, um, and just been
like, I'm here and I'm working in medicine and now I have to run again and it's
all your fault and I'm irritated and I'm out like that could have been it.
And then we would have had a lovely banner movie with the right actor for it.
It's fine.
We just really would like another whole movie I've been waiting.
So
Jude: the bitterness that you have in your voice, when you say that I was working a
Trey: lot of hot takes, I
Leech: would, I would honestly love, um, love another one.
I know we're getting She-Hulk and that's going to be amazing.
Yeah.
But
Jude: isn't Ruffalo's supposed to show up in that.
Right.
I don't know.
Leech: That'd be really cool.
I think so
Jude: it's such a good job.
Yeah.
Leech: Oh, so this one, um, if Coulson lived but I guess
that's what agents of shield is.
So it's okay.
That Colson died.
Trey: Wow.
Leech: I've just got a lot of beef with agents of shield because after watching
Loki and there being like a couple of things that some people are tying to
shield and then watching black widow, and there are also a couple of things
that potentially tie into shield.
I'm just so mad because like, no shield is, it is not Canon.
I refuse.
It makes no sense.
This whole thing's a fever.
Dream.
Coulson is stuck in a computer somewhere.
They're poking through his brain.
Like that's the only thing I that's like.
That's not a spoiler.
That's just me.
Just see, I'm trying to make it make sense in my head.
And it's painful
Jude: now, after this finale of Loki, your scenario is possible.
Leech: All scenarios are possible in the multi-verse.
Jude: That's right.
And you say so somewhere, maybe that's the, maybe that's maybe that's the pitch.
Kevin Feige super fan.
Our pitch is that Colson and Agents of shield was a fever dream while we were
poking and prodding his brain and some aim, advanced idea, mechanics, lab.
Yep.
Trey: That's going to happen.
You put it out there in the ether.
It's going to become a reality.
Now,
Leech: everything we're in the safe space, everything MCU.
And does agents of shield count as MCU?
Are we, okay.
I'm not asking about Canon.
I'm saying, can I put a sport?
Can I say a spoiler shield?
Okay.
Yeah.
Ask, um, they actually did touch upon that in the last season.
Like, Hey Coulson what if he actually did die?
And this is all fever dream dream and you're still on the table and
you're like, you're just dying in this all is a big fantasy.
And they said that and I'm just like, how dare you say that
and not make that the actual
Jude: case.
No, you have
Leech: to go double down and say, no, this is extra, extra real.
I'm like
Trey: no, you haven't.
It's almost like playing with someone's concept of reality is really rude.
Wow I couldn't imagine.
Leech: Yeah,
Jude: No it's a simulation that you're in Treyy.
Okay.
Leech: Okay.
It just means it's a really good simulation, right?
Aside from the random beeps.
We'll we'll get Terry to, in it to fix that out.
It's fine.
Jude: Oh
Trey: man.
Well, with the infinite possibilities of a multi-verse dude, what are
some of your possible pruning
Jude: scenarios?
Uh, for some reason I kept circling back to this idea that Doctor strange
didn't get in a car wreck Mordo became the sorcerer Supreme just
cause he was so, you know, rigid.
About the laws of nature and stuff like that.
That is something I definitely, because I mean, think about it.
Like he would not have studied it up and you known how to use the
time stone in reverse all that and go bargain with Dormamuu.
So that definitely would've changed things so that I kept circling
back to, I kept circling back to.
Ant-Man and what if the mouse didn't free him
Leech: when he did?
Oh my gosh.
I saw somewhere that someone wondered if the TV was just sitting there pruning
mice, like there was just like this one department or on the mice department
and this one didn't hit the button.
Okay.
Next?
No, uh, Nope, no, like there's like that very lowly basement
apartment with the flickering light.
Like that's what their job
Trey: is.
Well, I was going to say, you were talking about how the, the
TVA might be compartmentalized and they have different sections.
It's somewhere out there is a void specifically for those mice got
Jude: there.
And then I think the other one that I would love to have seen happen
would be, oh, what's his name now?
Um, I don't remember his name in the show or in, and, um, Civil
war, uh, the Jim rash, no, Jim rash actually being Dean from Greendale.
Oh my civil war.
Like, like I just feel like that alternative universe.
And that would be definitely something that gets pruned him out of there.
But I would love to have like, just that as a one-shot of it actually being
Dean Pelton and the TVA showing up.
Trey: Hey, I mean, Greendale, infiltrating, the MCU seems possible.
We've got Yvette, Nicole Brown.
We've got Danny Pudi.
We've got Jim rash, Donald Glover, technically, even though I don't count it
as a community cameo, but it's happening.
Jude: Yeah.
So, so like that would be, that would be fun for me or, and this is just
me being bitter prove Ralph boner and give us Quicksilver, but, okay.
Leech: How about Quicksilver?
Ended up getting Wanda's powers and then Wanda got Quicksilver's powers
and how, would everything have turned out if they had different, if they
had each other because they're twins.
So apparently it was interchangeable.
You know, like if anything could happen, if there's an
alligator, Loki it can happen.
So what would have unraveled because of that?
Trey: Hmm.
This is just making me that much more excited for what
Leech: so excited for what if, because it's animation, you can do anything.
Trey: So for me, I think some of the potential pruning scenarios that I
would have liked to have seen it.
I mentioned this in the discord, but I'll say it here in the podcast, infinity
war had the moment where banner couldn't transform into the Hulk would have loved
to have seen a scenario where he did transform into the Hulk and then watch the
TVA have to deal with a rampaging hole.
Jude: They just need to go finish the visual effects, apparently they shot.
They just go finish the visual effects and give it to them.
Trey: Yeah.
So they seem capable of doing that.
I think so another fun pruning moment, I think would have been in guardians of
the galaxy two where Nebula bites into the Yaro root, but it actually is ripe.
So she never has that point of learning to be better because she wasn't proven wrong.
So that would have been funny to see the cascading effects.
Leech: I mean, you miss you're five minutes late.
And your variants.
So it's, I don't need to do another view watch.
All right.
I'll hit you guys up in like a week, prepare your DMS.
Uh, man.
And I'm, I'm very curious though.
Cause if we're, if we're really like, Loki just blew it all open, like it's,
you know, butterfly effect upon butterfly effect upon butterfly effect it, literally
anything could happen at this point, cause nothing has to has an end purpose.
Who knows?
Yeah.
Trey: I think that tees up perfectly for my last one, which I think
is a bit bizarre, but Hey, in a
Leech: multi-verse potential
Trey: in Spider-Man homecoming when Ned discovers that Peter is Spiderman,
he is, has a barrage of questions.
One of which is.
Can I get bit by the spider and Peter tells him the spider's dead.
I would have liked to have seen a scenario where the spiders not dead
and watch their hi-jinks as they try to get Ned bit to creating a spider net.
Oh my gosh, I
Jude: need it.
Oh my God.
Well then that would give him the opportunity to go bad and become
the hobgoblin, which I think he is.
Yeah.
Huh?
Trey: I didn't know.
This was the theories upon theories upon theory.
Oh man.
Well, I think that's going to do it for this episode.
Leech as always.
It has been an absolute delight having you on and I want to
say thank you for joining us.
Leech: As always a blast.
And I just, my mind's racing now.
And I'm so sorry.
Cause I'm probably going to be texting you all night.
Like, oh, I'm out.
I'm halfway through iron man right now and there's no.
Oh no, this was a blast.
I really have a lot of fun with you too.
Jude: Yeah, thank you for coming on.
Trey: And of course, if you want to keep up with leech and all the
things they do, you can find them at and Twitter, which of course we
will link in the show notes as well.
Now, if you have any comments or questions about this episode, you can
always reach us at MC you need to know on Twitter and Instagram, or if you'd
like to join our discord, you can find a link to that in the show notes as well.
We'd love to have you lovely community of people who are just
as excited about the MCU as we are.
Jude: Uh, yes.
When you're on the discord, make sure you go to the role assign and
click on the emoji so you can have access to the spoiler channels.
You'll find me Trey, Leech, you find a lot of us there having these conversations.
I think I watched the finale at 2:00 AM and people were already
talking, so yes, very fun community.
So please make sure to do that.
And of course, make sure you follow us on wherever you get your podcast and the
best thing you can do for us to share
Trey: with a friend.
Yeah.
We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song, which is
his rendition of the Avengers theme.
You can find more of his work on his SoundCloud, which is
linked in the show notes as well.
Well, that's going to do it.
Thank you so much for listening and Jude and Leech, thank
you so much for doing this.
We'll see you all next
Jude: week.
Trey: It's thoroughly enjoyable, but it's pretty much the same, not one note.
Same style.
Leech: Yeah.
And meet then that thing was just me being picky about the, like, as a viewer
being picky and they addressed it.
Like, yeah, there we go.
That's why I'm here.
Trey: What was that?
There was like a little beep I didn't hear it.
Okay.
It might be on mine.
Leech: Was it the backup of a truck or what was that?
Jude: No, come on.
Wow.
Leech: Wow.
But you were just like, oh, he's stabbed me.
Trey: Well, I'm going to be completely honest.
I think I've shown both of you at this point, a picture I've taken of
my new captain America, Funko pop.
I've been very hesitant to share it anywhere because I know at
some point there's going to be
Leech: truck misleading with some hot wheels, photos, like bring it on
Jude: I'm loaded and ready.
I
Trey: know you are.
Okay.
All right.
Is there anything we need to go over before we,
Jude: uh, get you to keep on trucking bumper sticker?
Leech: Just send it and don't say you're sending it slip or a note or
anything with it to just have it appear.
Trey: Well, we'll start a tradition of sending each other
gifts, but never gets from us.