Elle: Let's be honest.
Every PMM dreams about
shaping the product roadmap.
The truth is you can, but only
if you've built real trust
with your product partners.
That trust comes when
you show up with sharp
customer insights.
Share ownership over adoption
metrics and make it clear
that you're in this together.
If you're looking to earn a
seat at the Roadmap Table,
today's episode is your
step-by-step blueprint,
and I have the perfect pm m
expert to guide you through.
With that, it is my
pleasure to have Sheryl Li,
product marketing leader at
Confluence on the show today.
Sheryl is one of the best pmms
to help you lead the way in
shaping the product roadmap.
Let me tell you why.
Sheryl has always had a
scientific mindset, think
intellectual curiosity,
experimentation, and
pattern recognition.
That scientific mindset became
her superpower in product
marketing, especially when it
comes to shaping the roadmap.
She started out with a
deep love for science,
and I mean deep.
Her science fair project
on turning algae into
biofuel, earned her an award
and even got an asteroid
named after her by MIT.
Wow.
But instead of life in a
lab, she took her curiosity
and problem solving skills.
Into management consulting,
advising some of the
world's biggest brands.
From there, she became
a founding member of the
pricing team at Twilio.
Then went on to leave
major product launches
at Confluent Post IPO.
Today she heads up product
marketing for Confluence,
fastest growing products,
and brings a rare blend of
technical curiosity, business
savvy, and go to market
magic to everything she does.
Sheryl, it's so amazing
to have you on the show.
Sheryl: Hi
Elle: I.
Sheryl: Thank you so
much for having me.
Wow, what a throwback.
Elle: Yeah, of course.
okay, so let's dive right in.
First, tell me and get
our audience up to speed.
What is confluent?
So, we can clue in some
of the members who may
be new to the company.
Sheryl: Absolutely.
So Confluent is a data
streaming platform that
helps companies work
with real time data.
And so that's what we
call data in motion.
And you can think about this
in contrast to storing data in
a database or data warehouse
and analyzing it later.
It's built on top of
Apache Kafka, an open
source technology that
our founders created.
Kafka has become the standard
for handling such large
volumes of real-time data,
and it's being used by 80%
of the Fortune 100 companies
So to bring this to life,
uh, a good example is fraud
detection and banking.
So when you have a
transaction, realtime data
is actually being streamed,
in the backend and analyzed
instantly so that they can
flag suspicious activity.
And so for you that might mean
getting a push notification
from your bank on your phone,
you verify if that transaction
was actually made by you.
And so preventing fraud
before it actually happens.
Elle: Oh wow.
Yes.
It's good to hear the
technology that's actually
powering some of that.
I've always wondered, I'm
like, how do they know
and how do they get to me
so quickly to validate?
Right.
very interesting.
Thank you for that context.
So, for the first segment
of our show today, I want
to start with a case study
of how you and your team
took customer insights,
bringing some of your
scientific magic and truly
impacted the product roadmap.
So tell me more about this.
What was going on at
Confluence when you realized
you may need to bring in
new elements to the roadmap?
Sheryl: Yeah.
so when I first joined
Confluent, we had just
launched our cloud connectors
product and we were really
trying to grow its adoption
within our existing Confluent
Cloud customer base.
for those who are less
familiar, connectors are
prebuilt integrations that
connect Kafka with popular
data systems like your Oracle
database, snowflake data
warehouse, or your S3 buckets.
Given its widespread adoption
of, uh, with Kafka users in
the open source community
and just the critical
role connectors play into
bringing data on and off
the platform, wanted to
really un unan answer this
question of why isn't the
growth higher already?
Was it an awareness problem?
Were there product gaps?
Was there a gap with
sales and go to market.
so to do that, I kicked off
an investigation and decided
to conduct interviews with
the field folks and customers,
as that's oftentimes you
can get a lot of, uh, good
insights and answers there.
And as part of that process,
I also partnered with the PM
to drive those conversations
so that we can both hear
the feedback firsthand.
Elle: Yes.
Okay.
So there's so much
that you said there
that I wanna unpack.
first of all, what I love
about how you described
your process is that it's
so true to who you are.
It's scientific, it's
methodical in terms
of the investigation.
really emulates that curiosity
that you and most pmms.
Have, okay.
So let's say that, I'm
inspired by this story and as
a PMM in my own organization,
I want to contribute to the
product roadmap in my role
today in the same, similar
way that you and your
team were able to impact
your products roadmap.
So let's outline the steps
that A PMM would need to take.
I guess what
would step one be?
Sheryl: So at Confluent
pmms, we actually own
the entire end-to-end,
go to market motion from
messaging to launches,
and then also post-launch.
Option.
after a launch, we work
together with PM to help
drive product adoption
and the revenue metrics.
So I would say if you're
not in a position where
you officially own these
metrics, I would still really
encourage you to get curious
about it and have regular
syncs with your PM and data
science teams to track them.
And this is especially
important if your company
has consumption based
pricing that's how you
ultimately drive revenue.
Elle: Yeah.
Yes, of course.
Okay, that makes
a lot of sense.
and it's, it's interesting
that you said and brought
up whether or not pmms own
the metrics, because as
you probably know, product
marketing is so different
in every organization, and
sometimes product marketers
and product managers, their
roles and responsibilities
blend with one another,
which is why it's so
important to be hand in hand.
But from your
perspective, why is it.
Such a good best practice
for pmms to monitor product
adoption or similar metrics.
Sheryl: Yeah, so when I'm
thinking about the product
marketing function, it's
really the connective
tissue between products,
sales, and the customer.
Elle: Mm-hmm.
Sheryl: So when you do a
launch beyond just the launch
metrics, it's important
that we aren't just sending
out these products into the
universe without knowing
how it's being used.
Who's using it?
If it's being used at all.
So I really encourage my
team to feel a sense of
ownership to what product
and engineering are building
and making sure that it
actually resolves, uh,
the customer pain and then
channel that feedback back
from the customers to the
product and ENG teams.
Elle: Yes.
Yes.
And just to double click
on something you said, is
that the feeling of the
ownership and being able
to look back and understand
how the products that we're
launching are influencing
the rest of the world and
influencing in particular our
customers is so important.
And as pmms, who should
be wearing the customer
shoes every day, looking
at these insights, I
think would just add
additional color and value.
To that overall analysis.
okay.
Very helpful, thank you.
Okay, so first up is review
that product data or adoption
metrics, and then what's next?
What's the next step?
Sheryl: next step?
is thinking about.
How the product data and
adoption metrics you've seen
compare to where you need
to be or where it should
be or where you want to be.
at Confluent,
because we have this
Elle: I.
Sheryl: Source counterpart,
we were able to compare
and see like, hey, actually
the open source connectors
product has really good
adoption with Kafka users, and
that really needs to be our
North Star for our own cloud
connectors product as well.
so to be able to answer that
question, customers often
have the answers to those,
to those type of questions.
And so that's why we decided
to conduct interviews, and
really get in deeper with
the customers in terms of
how and why and are they
aware of this product.
Elle: Yes.
Okay.
So you mentioned
having some kind of
benchmark for you guys.
It was that, um, open
source database, uh, but for
potentially other pmms who.
Don't have a similar
benchmark, they'd have to
create one of their own.
so, but very good to note.
Okay, so first is analyzing
that data, the customer
adoption, product,
adoption, usage, et cetera.
Measuring that
against a benchmark.
And once you identify some
kind of, discrepancy or.
maybe that your metrics are
not where they should be.
That's a signal that it's
time to start discovering why
that's hence the investigation
aspect of that, right.
where you started to do
your customer interviews.
So how did you conduct these
interviews, I guess, like
how did you determine who you
needed to interview and, talk
through that process with us?
Sheryl: Yeah, that's
a good question.
So when you're determining
who to interview, you
have to start by defining
who you're trying to
target with this product.
in my example of Cloud
connectors, our target were
confluent Cloud customers and.
My PM and i, we sampled
accounts across different
geography and sizes for
this interview so that we
can get good coverage, of
our potential customers.
to generalize all of this,
I would recommend that
you work closely with
your PM to help define
that target account list.
Elle: Mm-hmm.
Sheryl: Then data
science usually can
help pull that list.
If not your pm.
Elle: Yes.
So it's good to have an
understanding of your
ideal customer profile
and make a short list of
those target accounts.
Okay.
And then follow up
question, what kind of
questions did you ask to.
These perspective, I
guess like interviewees
you could say.
Sheryl: Yeah, so as we were
scheduling the, the interviews
with customers, we did draft,
a short list of questions
that we wanted to, make
sure that we asked in every
one of these interviews.
a large part in our
situation, they were.
Discovery questions relating
to our connectors product.
So things like what
type of data systems
are in your tech stack.
That way we would be able
to know like what type of
connectors uh, they would
Elle: Uh,
Sheryl: so understanding
what they're currently
using and why.
There are also different
alternatives for this product.
So like I mentioned,
there's an open source
alternative they could
build and, and create their
own connector as well.
So we wanted to really
dig into, Uh, why they've
made their choice and how
open they are to adopting
cloud connectors based on
their current pain points.
and then the last part is
a bit more technical, and
part of the reason why I
wanted PM to sit into this
conversation is in case there
were product or technical
blockers, we wanted to have
the PM on the call to just
dig in a little bit deeper.
So we're
Elle: Uh, for why.
Yeah.
What's really interesting
about how you structured
your interview questions is
that they almost mirror a
positioning statement, right.
You've uncovered the exact,
that that first part of the
positioning statement of
who this is for with your
ideal customer profile.
Those are the people
that you're interviewing.
And then you try to
uncover the pain points.
That's what they're, um,
the pains or tr challenges
they're experiencing.
and then the alternatives
I. Who you know, right?
That like, unlike X, Y,
Z, you know, vendors.
So the ineffective
alternatives.
I really like that you
dug into that because
sometimes that's missed
in PMM investigation
and research work when
talking to customers.
So I think that's really
critical, that you
included that into the
interview questions.
Okay, so quick recap.
You step one.
Looked at the product
adoption metrics.
step two, you did, um, some
kind of benchmark analysis
to see where your metrics
stood against where you
think they should be created,
that North Star vision.
I guess part of step two
slash step three, did
the investigation and the
interviews with customers
with PM in the room.
I think that it's a
very important tip.
Uh, so what's next?
After you did all
of this research and
then interviewing?
I,
Sheryl: Yeah, maybe I'll
start by sharing some
of our findings from the
Elle: uh, yes.
Sheryl: so from these
calls, three key
themes really surfaced,
from, from customers.
So the first one was around
the fact that they needed
variety of connectors to,
to be able to connect to the
different data systems they
have in their tech stack.
So about the breadth of
our connector portfolio.
Now, this was a problem
that we were aware of.
Uh, since this was a new
product, um, we were rapidly
adding more connectors rapidly
to our roadmap, and it's
already there and it should
be resolved, fairly shortly.
The second thing that we
learned was that during the
configuration and and setup
of launching these cloud
connectors, there were some
unexpected friction points,
that the customers brought up.
And so with that, we've
built in additional usability
features into the product
roadmap to help make all
of that a bit easier.
Now, the third thing that we
realized, this was what really
brought us back and, and.
To the roadmap and, and really
take a look at it end to end.
It was that we've realized
that with customers, are
aware of the benefits of using
cloud connectors, but they
actually, they want to use it,
but they are not able to do so
because they're storing their
most sensitive customer data
in their Oracle databases.
Elle: Of course.
Yeah.
Sheryl: With a cloud product
and sending all that.
Sensitive data
over the internet.
That's not something that
their company's InfoSec policy
will allow them to do, and
that's just, uh, not something
they're comfortable pursuing.
that really informed us of
a pressing need, this hard
technical blocker of having
connector private networking,
was not something that we knew
was so important and forefront
in our customer's evaluation.
Elle: Wow.
Okay.
So interesting.
So there were some things
where you were able to
immediately influence the
product roadmap and get
those features created,
but some which are a bit
more technical and complex.
it's a really interesting
point because.
Potentially surprising as
well and a good, another
good reason why to have PM
in the room with you when
you're doing these interviews.
So what do you do in that
scenario where you get a
pretty surprising piece
of feedback that's pretty
serious and a technical
blocker for your product?
What do, what do you
do in that scenario?
Sheryl: Well, first of all,
in the interview, since
PM was in the room, they
were actually able to dig
deeper into the specific
requirements that would.
Enable, our customers to
use our cloud connectors.
And so with that and the
themes that we've surfaced
from these calls, we were able
to gather, these meaningful
qualitative insights.
And we wanted to do a readout
to share our our findings.
And so with this presentation,
we also included customer
quotes and little soundbites
from the call just
to bring that
All to life since our
audience
weren't in the calls with us.
And then the,
The other key Part of this
readout was to make the
recommendation to move
up the timelines for this
private networking features,
as that's really the key
feature that would unlock
our customers, uh, to be
able to use this product.
However, whenever you're
doing that, you're really
making trade offs, so we
wanted to be able to size
this opportunity with a
business case to be able
to anticipate the questions
that we might receive.
Elle: Oh, very smart.
Okay, so you, created this
business case, essentially
the readout for some
internal stakeholders
to, make the proposal and
recommendation to move up.
These really, I don't wanna
say monstrous, because I'm,
maybe I'm not, I don't know
if I'm technical enough to
call it quite that, but.
We'll say pretty lofty
road blockers for your
customers that maybe
weren't on the roadmap,
but just not for a while.
So, this business case
can help justify why you
would need to move that up.
And as part of the business
case, you sized the
opportunity and I guess the
business value and benefit to
doing, uh, taking that action.
Sheryl: Yeah.
no, that's exactly right.
So with a business case,
you're basically making a
financial model based on a
set of reasonable assumptions.
And then looking at
what that upside is.
If you did, uh, release
this feature and all these
customers were able to
use, cloud connectors.
Elle: And who was the
audience for the readout
for this business case?
I.
Sheryl: in our case, we
did the presentation to our
C-Suite executives, and the
reason why we needed, needed,
at the highest leadership
level was because we needed.
across the organization.
And that's because private
networking features were
owned by, not by the Connect
product team, but by a
separate, uh, networking team.
And so meeting this customer
need required shifting
resources, for the next
two years essentially.
so we were in a fortunate
position at Confluent as PMM
is a strategic function here.
And so we already had.
syncs and direct access
to that leadership level.
However, if you are not
in that position, I would
recommend going through an
exec sponsor If you don't
already have a CF table, I.
Elle: Yeah, great tip.
Who would be a good executive
sponsor in your opinion?
Sheryl: Yes.
So since this is about
the product roadmap, I.
think you should find
a PM leader who really
Elle: I.
Sheryl: about the outcome of
product adoption and revenue.
Elle: Yeah,
Sheryl: them looped into
the whole investigation
also makes that easy, since
they also want to do what's
best for their product.
Elle: yeah.
Yet another reason to be
hand in hand with your
product counterparts.
tip.
Okay, so once you got the
green light, how did you
kind of tie up loose ends?
Sheryl: Hmm.
in real life, if you
know anything about
cloud networking, which
I think you do al,
Elle: I do working at Cisco.
That is our bread and butter.
Sheryl: It's a super hard
problem to solve, and
not one that you know
has an easy solution.
So these networking features
actually got released over
many quarters, and as they
were released by cloud,
by region, we had to make
sure that we then go back
and activate the field
and notify the customers
who gave that feedback.
We also made comms, out
to all of new confluent
cloud customers that
we've acquired over this,
long period of time.
And it's important to
go and circle back.
Otherwise, that business
case would just stay as
a model in Excel, right?
You're making assumptions
that you are unlocking
and unblocking customers
the quarters, in order
to see that upside.
Elle: Yeah, it's,
Sheryl: you know, due to
product and our go-to-market
efforts, we have, grown
our product adoption
metrics for connectors
significantly since then.
Elle: brilliant.
And I just wanna note
that it was thoughtful.
To circle back with
the customers that you
interviewed, to give them
just some communication
around how they're taking
a part in influencing and
shaping the roadmap too.
I could imagine as a customer
how that could go a long way
in terms of feeling valued.
in my experience, sometimes
customers will even
choose a vendor because
they get to take part.
In shaping the roadmap
for the products that
they use every day.
so very helpful.
So last question for you,
Sheryl, on this topic.
What piece of advice do
you have for a product
marketer who is trying to
shape the product roadmap?
Sheryl: Yeah, I would really
advise that you build a
strong relationship with
product management and
realistically, it takes
time to build that trust.
And what I encourage my
team to do is to have
regular things with them,
to learn about their product
vision, their roadmap, get
to know them personally.
And when you're
working with pm.
Especially for such a
technical product that we
have at Confluent, don't
be afraid to ask questions.
And I, I.
think that really shows
your genuine curiosity
into the technology and
willingness to learn.
I've always found that
PMs are really patient in
educating you, and they
find that as a signal of
trust as well for you.
And then finally, when you're
working through your first
launch together with your pm,
they will be able to see the
value that PMM brings into
making all the hard work,
for them and their ENG teams
and bringing that to market.
Elle: so with that.
I would like to move on
to the next segment of our
show, the messaging critique.
alright, so in this segment
of the show, this is where
Sheryl, you and I, as product
marketing experts get to
analyze real world messaging.
it's so fun because you,
Sheryl, my guest, get
to pick the company.
But before we get started, I
want to lay out some ground
rules for our listeners who
may not be familiar with
this segment of the show.
So first, I want to
hear something that
you're loving about the
messaging, what's working.
What's not working?
And then, uh, second, maybe
share something that you wish
the PMM would've considered
or done differently.
And thirdly, how could
this PMM iterate on the
messaging or storytelling?
Like, what's a
creative campaign or
asset they could do?
It's just fun brainstorming.
and maybe a plug for that PMM
who could be listening to,
take it to the next level.
okay, so with that,
Sheryl, tell me what is
a product or company that
has caught your attention?
Good, bad, or
somewhere in between.
Sheryl: Oh, I'm so excited
for this segment and I
Elle: It's so fun.
Sheryl: I have two
Elle: I love it.
Sheryl: so when you originally
came to me with this, and
you mentioned about loving
the messaging, I couldn't
help but think of Apple
Elle: I,
Sheryl: and specifically
Elle: of course.
Sheryl: with their launch of
the Dynamic Island feature.
Elle: Okay.
I have to admit, I had
never heard of this before,
and I don't know if maybe
that's because I'm not
a big enough Apple fan,
which I, thought I was,
but tell me more about it.
Sheryl: Yeah, well
you may not know it.
by that name, but Dynamic
Island is essentially that
pill shaped cutout you
have on top of your iPhone.
And that replaced the notch on
iPhone 14 versions or later.
what I really love about this
release is the creativity
behind what the marketing
and the software teams had
done for what's essentially
a hardware limitation.
So functionally.
the cutout houses, the
front facing camera for your
phone and face ID sensors.
But instead of letting
that become static dead
space with software, it
has transformed into a
dynamic and an interactive
part of the screen.
Elle: Got it.
Okay.
And I have to say, how
did you stumble upon this?
Like, is it obvious or have I
been living under a rock that,
it's called Dynamic Island?
Sheryl: So sometimes I
would watch, the keynote
for developer conferences
at other companies.
And so that's how I came
across the awesome launch
video in which they
released Dynamic Island?
at the time.
I.
think it's a few years
ago by now, but you can
still find on YouTube.
it's only 40 seconds long.
Super sleek.
There's no narration.
Only the most vibe, the
music, and it shows you
exactly how dynamic Island
smoothly transitions from
providing incoming call
notifications to tracking your
Lyft ride and playing music.
I just find it such a
refreshing change from
some of our B2B marketing
roles in which we have
to use big, clunky words
to describe something.
Elle: Yeah,
Sheryl: this 42nd video
was just like the perfect
example of show don't tell.
Elle: I am really
impressed that there's no.
Like narration, voice or
words, the show don't tell
is very strong storytelling.
Just for our listeners, I will
track down that 42nd video and
I'll put it in the show notes.
I'm intrigued.
I definitely
wanted take a look.
okay.
And there was another company
you wanted to chat about.
Sheryl: Yes.
So the other company that's
caught my eye is called Dust.
They are a Sequoia
backed startup in the
AG agentic AI space.
And what their product
does is, in their own
words, a. AI operating
system for enterprises.
So a horizontal solution
that will be able to serve
all business units of a
company to help use AI agents
and boost productivity.
And of course, this is all
powered by LLMs and grounded
by internal data sources.
Elle: Yeah.
Okay.
So I just pulled
up their website.
So for the listeners,
that's Dust, it's D UT tt.
I'm scrolling and they,
they've listed out a
couple example use cases.
One of them is for pmms, which
I really like, and they have
examples like write on brand
content in minutes, create
consistent launch messaging.
So I'm really
intrigued by that.
But tell me, what do
you love about the
messaging of this product?
Sheryl: Yeah, so I, I think
the product is super cool,
first of all, and like you
said, as A-P-M-M-I would
be able to build an AI
agent to quickly synthesize
customer insights from
gong calls or run a query.
I. data warehouse
to self-serve.
Some of That analysis
I talked about earlier
Using natural language.
So I could just describe
my criteria instead of
having to learn sql.
And
Elle: it.
Sheryl: Overall for
dust, their messaging
is, is really well done.
Uh, the website copy is tight
and I can quickly get a sense
of what I'm able to do with
dust and its value props.
And for a horizontal solution
like this, I really like
that they've included a
solution pages where I can
get more tailored messaging
based off the business
function I'm coming from and
also use case suggestions.
Elle: Awesome.
Okay.
Yes.
It's always such a win
when you can like very
quickly understand
what a company does.
And I gotta say, in the
world of AI we're in,
everyone is just jamming
AI into as a buzzword into.
Like every single header and
subheader I can think of, it's
pretty impressive that you can
be clear and concise and still
show your differentiation.
So hats off to the dust team.
That's very cool.
I'm impressed.
okay, so what's something
though that maybe you wish
the PMM would've considered?
Sheryl: Yeah, so I've actually
met the dust team before
and they run super lean,
maybe because they use dust,
but they don't actually
have dedicated pmms yet
Elle: Oh wow.
I'm even more impressed then.
Sheryl: Exactly.
something we've discussed is
the challenge of identifying
the right and consistent
buyer persona, uh, for a
horizontal solution like this.
within the organization has
the pain around this lack
of productivity, but also
the budget influence to
be able to champion this?
And once a company implements
dust, how will it be used?
Like, is everyone expected
to build their own agents
or will it really be,
concentrated in a handful
of super users who build
reusable agents that everyone
else then, uh, just use?
And the other thing that's.
Comes to mind is how
is dust different
from all the other AI
Elle: Mm-hmm.
Sheryl: Enterprise
search agent products?
Uh, for example, like Glean.
so getting a better
understanding on their primary
buyer persona will help inform
the messaging on the homepage.
Elle: Right.
Yeah.
So this sounds
like a really great
segmentation opportunity.
And then from there.
They could hone in on
particular pain points
they're trying to solve for
their priority target market.
They could understand how
they're trying to solve
those pains and how that's
different from all those other
AI powered agents like lean.
I could totally see that
being a good next step.
okay, cool.
So lastly, if you were the
PMM here, what would you do
to take it to the next level?
Like do you have any
super creative ideas for
our friends over at Dust?
Sheryl: just brainstorming
out loud here, maybe some
sort of creative campaign
that will target a few
key business functions.
To start,
I'm
Elle: Ooh.
Sheryl: Marketing,
uh, engineering.
And based on the performance
of that campaign, the team
will be able to get a clear.
understanding of which
functions has that most pain
and ROI balance, uh, for a
tool like this and be able
to start there as an entry
into the organization and
build out like a repeatable
go-to-market motion.
I.
Elle: Yes.
Okay.
I love that.
It's like a BM style,
land, and expand
kind of opportunity.
that could be a really
strategic way to
partner with sales too.
you know, I might also
suggest as part of the
segmentation exercise, doing
that like ideal customer
profile exercise too.
So when they create that
ideal customer profile
they wanna target, they
can establish super strong
personas across the buy team.
And I think that could
really, pair nicely with your.
sort of land and expand,
sort of, I'm putting
words in your mouth now.
Sheryl: No, that's exactly it.
Elle: very cool.
Solid messaging critique.
Sheryl, also, I now want
to use their tool because
it's just looks really cool.
Shout out to Apple as always.
Yeah, the goat and
marketing and messaging
and then of course to the.
Yeah, of course.
To the dust pmms out there.
You've got some fans.
Great job with the messaging.
Uh, okay, Sheryl, before
we go, I just wanna have
a gratitude moment and say
thank you so much for your
willingness to share your
knowledge and expertise
with the product marketing
community today and me.
How lucky am I that I just
got like a mini coaching
session on shaping the
product roadmap, so cool.
Sheryl: No.
Uh, thank you so
much for having me.
Um, it.
Been really fun to be able to
come on and, and share, uh,
some of the projects we've
been working on at Confluent.
But one thing that
I don't know if you
still remember, but.
At the beginning you
were mentioning how I
didn't have like, uh, a
traditional background
Elle: Right,
Sheryl: marketing,
Elle: right.
Sheryl: Were one of
the first pmms that I
reached out to at Twilio
Elle: I remember,
Sheryl: to make that switch.
And you to kind of.
Take me under your
weighing and give me
little assignments, and you
really taught me kind of
the importance of having
customer proof points to
strengthen your messaging.
Elle: oh, thanks for that.
Shout out.
Sheryl: yeah, you honestly
have shaped, uh, my
career as PMM as well.
Elle: Aw, I'm so
touched to hear that.
yeah, whenever I get a chance
to meet amazing pmms like
yourself, I do get curious.
I'm like, how did they
get to be so amazing?
not trying to toot
my own horn, but I,
I got to help this one.
Sheryl: A hundred percent.
And I think it would be
really cool if we did
a podcast episode that
switches, the interviewer
and the interviewee, and you
could be the guest to your
Elle: Oh, so fun.
Sheryl: Your expertise in this
Elle: Oh, that's so
sweet and so fun.
Yeah, I should definitely
consider that sometime.
any other shout outs to
pmms who have shaped how you
got to where you are today?
Sheryl: Yeah.
definitely.
So the first one
is Nick Bryan.
He was my manager for
many years Confluence,
and honestly, he's taught
me everything I know.
And, he is a great product
marketer, perfect blend of
creativity and messaging,
technical, aptitude and
also analytical powerhouse.
And, under his leadership,
I was able to grow a lot.
And now that I have my own
team, I still hear his voice
in my head about how to
get crisp, clear messaging.
Um, so he's been.
A huge influence
to my PMM career.
another colleague,
uh, Greg Murphy.
Uh, we did, a launch together,
and that was my first,
official launch as a PMM.
And, he just has such a
high bar for excellence.
He, and it's just so
great at communicating
through written words.
And so he always strived
me to, be better,
Elle: Yeah.
Sheryl: then get better again.
Elle: I love those PMM
friends who help us really
understand like, this is
what excellence look like.
And honestly, that is why
I wanted to create this
podcast and why I thought of
you to be such a great guest
for the show because you
strive for that excellence
and obviously have had
such great mentorship.
So.
Those mentors are such,
they're the secret sauce to
how we get to where we are.
And, now you're gonna
be able to shape that
for our PMM community.
So thank you so much.
And for people who are
listening and thinking,
I need to have more
Sheryl in my life, like,
how can they find you
Sheryl: Uh, I think
on LinkedIn is
probably the best bet.
Yeah, I would love
Elle: great.
Sheryl: Connect and,
and share ideas.
Elle: I love it.
Thank you so much, Sheryl,
and thank you to our
listeners for coming on this
adventure with us today.
I hope this episode leaves you
with inspiration in taking the
next step in your own journey.