[00:00:00] Antony Whitaker: Welcome to the Grow My Salon Business podcast, where we focus on the business side of hairdressing. I'm your host, Antony Whitaker, and I'll be talking to thought leaders in the hairdressing industry, discussing insightful, provocative, and inspiring ideas that matter. So get ready to learn, get ready to be challenged, get ready to be inspired, and most importantly, get ready to grow your salon business.
[00:00:29] Antony Whitaker: My guest today is Meagan McCormack, who is Chief Operating Officer of the Visible Changes Salon Group based in Houston, Texas. Visible Changes was started by Meagan's parents, John and Marianne McCormack, but today is run by Meagan and her brother, Johnny. And I promise that you're going to love this podcast.
[00:00:48] Antony Whitaker: Visible Changes is quite simply a business like no other. It's an incredibly inspiring salon organization that everyone can learn something. So welcome to the podcast. Meagan McCormack, Chief Operating Officer of the Visible Changes Salon Group in Texas. Hi, Megan. 
[00:01:07] Meagan McCormack: Hi, Antony. It's so nice to be here. 
[00:01:09] Antony Whitaker: It is great to have you here.
[00:01:10] Antony Whitaker: Thank you so much for making the time to talk to us today. 
[00:01:13] Meagan McCormack: Thank you for having me. 
[00:01:14] Antony Whitaker: I know it's this is the pleasure is all mine, I promise you. So, look for any of our audience who haven't heard of Visible Changes. There's probably some people out there that maybe haven't. Um, can I just get you to start off by just giving us an overview into Visible Changes as a company and, you know, the people who own it, people who run it, et cetera.
[00:01:32] Antony Whitaker: So, the floor is all yours. 
[00:01:34] Meagan McCormack: Absolutely. So, we started in Houston 40 years ago, 41 years ago. Um, our anniversary is It's going to be in October. So, we'll hit 42 years, which is amazing. Um, and it was started by my parents, John and Marianne McCormack, my brother, Johnny, and I have taken over since he's been in for about 12 years.
[00:01:55] Meagan McCormack: I've been in for about five and a half now. We have 13 locations throughout Texas. We have eight in Houston, two in San Antonio, two in Austin, and one outside of Dallas and Frisco, Texas. We have about 750 employees right now. So, our salons range from about 20 employees to about 120 employees at our largest, and that includes stylist, front desk, management, back room.
[00:02:26] Meagan McCormack: Um, if we have sweepers or stockers or cleaning help, then that includes all of them as well. We do about 50, last year we did about 50 million, 51 million in sales. Um, this year we're projected to hit about 46, so we're down a little bit. And. And that's, that's kind of, kind of a little bit of a background on us.
[00:02:48] Meagan McCormack: We're big on celebrating our staff. We're big on rewarding our staff. We're big on personal development and really growing. Um, I know we're going to get into all of that in a little bit, but that's kind of a background of us. We're departmentalized at, um, almost all of our locations. Some of our smaller, older locations, we still have people that were grandfathered into doing both cutting and coloring, but that's also a nice little.
[00:03:13] Meagan McCormack: Tidbit for people, um, to really get to know us. Okay. 
[00:03:16] Antony Whitaker: Fantastic. Well, there's some, some good things there. I want to dig into straight away. Um, did you, I didn't realize you had salons that was as small as having 20 employees. Um, I mean, that's a lot, but I have been into your salons and I know that some of them are, uh, uh, giants basically.
[00:03:33] Antony Whitaker: Um, and did you say the biggest one has 120 employees in one salon? Yes. Right. Okay. And did I hear you? Right. Did you just say 51 million in sales? Yes. Okay. 51 million with 13 salons. Yes. Wow. That is a serious number. Um, we, we have quite an audience in the U S but we've also got a lot of people in Australia and the UK.
[00:03:56] Antony Whitaker: So, a quick conversion on what 51 million looks like in pounds. It's, uh, about 40 million, uh, UK pounds or Australian or Canadian dollars. It's about 74 million, uh, dollars out of 13 salons. So that really puts it into some perspective. A couple of other things you just mentioned as you were, as you were saying that I, I, I may have misheard you.
[00:04:22] Antony Whitaker: Did you say that that includes sweepers and stalkers? Yes. Okay. What what are sweepers and what are stalkers? 
[00:04:31] Meagan McCormack: So, we have, um, so we have some of our locations are bigger locations. We have cleaning help. So, we have ladies that we've hired that have come in. They help us clean. They help us do towels. They help us sweep.
[00:04:41] Meagan McCormack: They help us keep the salon, um, cleaned and managed. We also have. In our, in our larger locations, we have people that are there to just help us stock retail, to pull it down from the attic, keep making sure all of our shelves are beautiful, making sure that they're clean, um, and it, it's, it's a full-time job because we're so busy.
[00:05:02] Meagan McCormack: And so, we're big on educating our guests and having them. Take home products with them so that they can look great and recreate the looks that we have. So, some of our locations have people who stock. 
[00:05:13] Antony Whitaker: Okay. I've got you. I've got you. Okay. You're going to, you're going to laugh. Um, I thought you said stalkers, not stockers.
[00:05:20] Antony Whitaker: Okay. I was thinking what the hell is a stalker? I could figure out what a, what a, what a sweeper was, but I was, uh, okay, let's, let's just move right on from, uh, that little bit of an Antony ism. Okay. So, people that are listening to this. When they hear a salon that's, you know, that big, that's that successful, that's making those sorts of sales, there is one question that's running through their head.
[00:05:43] Antony Whitaker: And that is, how do you do that? Like what is the secret? You know, like, like where do I start with digging in to, to some questions about that? But you know, how did, what, what is the secret? How does Visible Changes manage to build a business? That size? What are some of the fundamental, you know, beliefs and philosophies that you have as a company have?
[00:06:07] Meagan McCormack: Yeah. So there there are three main things that I talk about to all of our new employees. Um, our first is. Welcome to the family, you're hired, you're a part of our family now, we're family owned, family run, and that's the culture that we have. We are a family. If you ask any of our people, what's the best part about your company?
[00:06:25] Meagan McCormack: Um, they always say we're a family. And so, when my parents, my parents are originally from New York, and so they moved down to Texas because of the opportunity that was here and they wanted to create it a company that was also their extended family because they didn't have any family here. And so, I think that's really what separates us from most other people is that we really are a family.
[00:06:46] Meagan McCormack: Like we truly care about each other. We love each other. We want the best for each other. And so that, that separates us. Number two is my favorite part about this company and some people, I don't know, some people can take it the wrong way, but I think it's awesome. I think that everybody that's come into our company has, whether they've left or not has become a better version of them because of the culture that we have.
[00:07:09] Meagan McCormack: So, we are big on personal development. We want you to grow. We want you to learn. We want to grow. We want to learn. And so. That's the culture that we have here. And so, my favorite thing is there's not a single person that's come into our company that hasn't stayed or left and become a better version of them.
[00:07:25] Meagan McCormack: Um, and number three, what separates us from everybody else is our education. One of my parents founding beliefs is the only thing that can separate us as human beings is education, not saying that it has to be a college level education, but you have to constantly be learning and growing and evolving yourself as a person.
[00:07:43] Meagan McCormack: And so, when you join us, we have our own training program that you go through, um, you earn your way into the training program by having conditioner sales. While you're a trainee. So, a trainee is somebody who just joins with us. They help clean the salon, they help shampoo, they help do towels, they help, um, in any way that we need them to help.
[00:08:02] Meagan McCormack: And then while they're shampooing, they have an opportunity to upsell a conditioner and their conditioner sales or how they earn class. So, we start them out and they have our own, we have our own basic training program. They can get on the floor and then we have continued education. Um, Throughout their entire career with us.
[00:08:19] Meagan McCormack: We also have in January every year. We have a kickoff meeting. So, we start our year with everyone coming together and learning about different things this year. We were huge on personal development and how we want to grow as human beings this year. Um, we have two more quarterly meetings. We call them where we bring everybody together again, and it's a full four hours or five hours of educating on, you know, where we're growing, what our company vision is, what we want to do.
[00:08:47] Meagan McCormack: And so, we're huge on continued education. So., I think that's really what separates us because when you have a group of people that want to continue to learn and grow, it creates a better culture. Right? So then, even if some people fall into RETS like we all do, we're all human, obviously, but you have an entire support system behind you that really wants you to do well.
[00:09:09] Meagan McCormack: And so, it changes the game a little bit for 
[00:09:12] Antony Whitaker: sure. So just fill us in a little bit on the family dynamic. Um, I often talk to people who, you know, have family businesses and, you know, sometimes they work really well. Uh, other times is, you know, there's big challenges having a family business. Just give us a little bit of the background about.
[00:09:30] Antony Whitaker: Uh, who your mom and dad are and how they started the business, what their role is in the business today and, uh, and also what your role is and what, uh, uh, Johnny's role is, 
[00:09:38] Meagan McCormack: yeah, for sure. So, my mom has been a hairdresser since she was 16. She is still a licensed hairdresser. She still cuts, uh, my dad and my uncle's hair.
[00:09:49] Meagan McCormack: Um, she's awesome. She's a hairdresser for over 50 years. She is the matriarch of the company and the hairdressing hero of our company. She put together our entire training program. My dad used to be a New York city cop. He has worked on wall street. He's worked, um, under several different business owners that he found and they were all immigrants with successful businesses, which really trained his way of thinking, but he's more of like the business side of things.
[00:10:18] Meagan McCormack: Um, he knows how to look at numbers. He knows how to read numbers better than anyone I've ever met my entire life. He's awesome and inspiring and he can look at numbers and figure out, you know, what we can do here and the, the amount of the amount of numbers that it takes in order to do a trip or to have extra money so that we can go and have a night, have a dinner with our staff and do things.
[00:10:43] Meagan McCormack: And so that's kind of how his brain has worked. And he really, he's, I mean, he's just phenomenal with that. I've, I'm currently trying to understand how his brain works so I can get better at that, but he's awesome. So, they started, they came down here. Um, they actually had to go to 302 banks before we ever got a loan for Visible Changes.
[00:11:02] Meagan McCormack: They all said, if you were Mexican restaurant, we'd give you the loan, but you're a hair salon and you're never going to make it, um, on the 301st bank. He wanted to quit. But I don't know if, I mean, my dad's a huge Walt Disney person and my mom, you know, is, is a huge support system for him. And anytime he's had, you know, trials in his life, she's always been there.
[00:11:22] Meagan McCormack: And so, he almost gave up at the 301st bank and she was like, you know, didn't Walt Disney have to go to 301 banks for his loan for building Disney? And he was like, yeah. And she was like, don't you think you can get a 302? And he did. And that's when we got the loan. So that's a, that's a cool part of the story also that I love, um, but they're amazing.
[00:11:40] Meagan McCormack: Fantastic. Yeah. 
[00:11:42] Antony Whitaker: I've heard a lot of the story before. I've never heard that. Or if I had, I'd forgotten it. So, uh, yeah, again, one of those ingredients of, you know, tenacity to, uh, is, is one of the things behind that, you know, success. Um, so, uh, John, your dad and Mary and your mom, are they still actively involved in the company today?
[00:12:04] Meagan McCormack: So, my mom retired, um, but she still comes in and works as an advisor. We still talk to her. About everything that we're doing. She's very much still involved in terms of like having the conversations and seeing where things are going. And she's constantly wanting to help and gives her two cents. And I go to her all the time on what she thinks.
[00:12:22] Meagan McCormack: Um, so she's still involved, but with the retired umbrella, we also have our own charity that we started. It's called Thair For You, T H A I R, like hair. And we provide free wigs for anyone going through cancer, so they'll come in, um, we'll shave their head, we'll fit them for a wig, we'll cut it to their style, it's free of charge for them.
[00:12:41] Meagan McCormack: We started that charity because she was diagnosed with breast cancer 9 years ago, no, 10 years ago now. 10 years ago, this October. And so, we started that charity. And so, she helps run that. She also is very involved in the hospitals in Houston. She sits on several boards. She volunteers down there and she talks to people going through cancer.
[00:13:02] Meagan McCormack: She also helps in any way that she can. We also volunteer at a community out here for adults with, um, mental disabilities. And so, they have every second Tuesday of the month, she takes the team and they go out there and they cut all the citizens hair out there. And so, she's still very much involved, but more on the charity side of things now.
[00:13:24] Meagan McCormack: And then kind of as an advisor for us, my dad is still coming into the office at least four days a week. He's still, um, still helping us on any big decisions that we make, but he's kind of just letting us run things now. My middle brother, who's not in the business is in real estate. And so, they work on a lot of real estate things and he helps him with real estate and all that kind of stuff.
[00:13:46] Meagan McCormack: So still involved, but again, more as an advisor, but he's here more often than my mom would be. 
[00:13:52] Antony Whitaker: Okay. And, and so it's you and Johnny who effectively run the company then. Yes. Yeah. And, and how do you divvy up the roles between yourself? 
[00:14:02] Meagan McCormack: So, it's kind of just like where our strengths are, and we're both really good at identifying our strengths and then celebrating the other strengths.
[00:14:12] Meagan McCormack: Johnny looks at things differently than I do, which is really awesome. We just did our sit down, so we sit down with our staff twice a year and we give them, we hand out bonuses, but we also when we sit down, we do goals for the year and you know what numbers they want to hit and we look at their past five years and so right now Johnny's brain is he sits with people and he shows them how productive they could be with the hours that they are working.
[00:14:36] Meagan McCormack: My sit downs are a little bit differently. Mine are really about the person and really kind of deep diving where they are, where they live emotionally, where they would like to live in the person that they want to grow into. Um, I used to be the numbers person also, but I've kind of changed my direction this year because what makes me tick is really figuring out how to help people grow into the person that they want to become.
[00:15:02] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I used to, sorry to interrupt you. I was just whenever you start talking about that, I always think of what your title used to be because I gather you no longer have that title. Um, and I really loved it because I've never met anyone else with it.
[00:15:17] Meagan McCormack: I have it. It's still, it's still a huge part of me.
[00:15:20] Meagan McCormack: Okay. 
[00:15:20] Antony Whitaker: So, so tell everyone what was your business title or is your business title? 
[00:15:24] Meagan McCormack: My, my title, um, a year after I started was chief happiness officer. 
[00:15:29] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, I see. I think that's brilliant. And now, it's now it's Chief Operating Officer. 
[00:15:34] Meagan McCormack: Yeah. Yes, as well as I'm like, I can't like a CHL it's it's it was really fun for me.
[00:15:40] Meagan McCormack: Johnny actually was the one that gave me that title. Um, when I came in, my big thing was, are you happy? Are you happy with you? Because if you're not happy with you, you can't be happy with anybody else. So, you can choose to be happy every single day. It's the only thing that you you have, right? So, one of my favorite quotes It's all about happiness.
[00:15:58] Meagan McCormack: Um, I have a, I have a, a sign in my office that says choose happiness. I think it's a big, it's a big part of me. And so, he was like, this is, this should be your title. And so, it was fun. 
[00:16:10] Antony Whitaker: Good. Well, you know, it's interesting how, you know, for a lot of people going to work is their happy place, you know, that not everyone has a great home life.
[00:16:17] Antony Whitaker: So, you know, um, recognizing how important that. Emotional connection is with your team is obviously again, something that's really fundamental to your, your success. You know, when you talk about your mom, uh, I was in the car with her once and you know, she had this, um, Excel spreadsheet with her and she said, oh, I must remember to do, to do this.
[00:16:40] Antony Whitaker: And I was like, well, what is it? And she said, Oh, they're my calls for the day. Uh, do you want to tell us what it was that she was doing? I mean, I know, but our audience doesn't, I'd rather you doesn't, I'd rather you told the story than me. 
[00:16:50] Meagan McCormack: Yes, absolutely. I know. And it's, it's so second nature to me. I always forget this part.
[00:16:55] Meagan McCormack: So, I'm glad, I'm glad that you brought it up. Um, my mom for the entire duration that our company has been alive. So, for 41 years, she calls every single person on their birthday or on their company anniversary with us. And they, she wishes them a happy birthday or happy anniversary. So, every day she calls.
[00:17:13] Meagan McCormack: It's usually at least one to six or seven, sometimes even more people. And it's really great because sometimes, you know, their own parents don't wish them a happy birthday and a lot of companies forget about birthdays or anniversaries and that's big for us. Um, and so it's, it's definitely her tie still into the company and, and she loves it and they love hearing from her and it's really awesome.
[00:17:36] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Well, again, I think that sort of with, what did you say? 800 plus staff. Yeah. Yeah. In 
[00:17:41] Meagan McCormack: total. Yeah. We're about 750 to 800 now. 
[00:17:45] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. So, you know, that's a lot of people to call without a doubt. Um, and you'd need a, you'd need a spreadsheet to remember people's names and you know, birthdays is one thing, but anniversaries, you know, one of the things, I mean, I've been privileged to, you know, get a little bit of an insight into your company, uh, on more than one occasion.
[00:18:04] Antony Whitaker: And it's always the thing that stands out to me is the, um, well, I, it's the amount of celebrations you have, you celebrate everything. So, yeah, yes, people's birthdays, but even people's work anniversaries. I mean, most. Salon owners out there wouldn't know that, you know, today is, you know, Mary's, you know, five-year anniversary and that next week is, you know, Susan's 10-year anniversary or whatever, you know, there's a lot of value isn't there in, in acknowledging people's anniversaries and, and celebrating them.
[00:18:35] Meagan McCormack: Absolutely. Because people, you know, and I won't get into like the whole millennial topic, but, um, I am a millennial and. We are good and we are bad. Just like every generation has good and bad. Um, but it's also nice to see people who have really dedicated their careers to one place and have made so much of themselves.
[00:18:56] Meagan McCormack: We just celebrated two of our people. One of our managers celebrated 30 years with us and one of our other. Corporate people, and he's been in so many positions with us, just celebrated 34 years, and we celebrated that yesterday, actually. And so that was really awesome. You get them to speak and talk about, you know, the growth and how they've grown.
[00:19:16] Meagan McCormack: And it's, it's really awesome. Yeah, really? 
[00:19:19] Antony Whitaker: Well, you know, one of the things that that is, you know, important for every business is, is, you know, client retention, but also staff retention. Um, how long do you keep your average team member? Is that some, is that a metric that you track at all?
[00:19:34] Meagan McCormack: I haven't looked at that in a minute, but the last time I looked at it, our average stylist is with us around 10 years.
[00:19:40] Meagan McCormack: Yeah. 
[00:19:41] Antony Whitaker: Okay. So, I mean, that's what I thought from previous conversations. And, you know, I don't know if there is an accurate statistic for what average, um. Retention is, but interestingly, I did read something recently about corporate America, and it was saying that the average person stays in a job in corporate America for just over 3 years.
[00:20:02] Antony Whitaker: So, uh, the fact that you're keeping people for 10 years as an average is is phenomenal. Um, and I know that when I was in your, uh, memorial city salon last year. I met someone who, you know, was walking around with a, with a, with a badge on that she was in the 6 million club or something. And I said, how long have you been here?
[00:20:22] Antony Whitaker: And, um, she'd been there for 37 years. Um, I mean, that sort of loyalty and commitment is, is. Fantastic. 
[00:20:32] Meagan McCormack: Yes. Actually, that same person, um, celebrated 38 years on conference day this year
[00:20:38] Antony Whitaker: Fantastic. And has she, has she got to the, uh, the 7 million club yet? Not yet. Okay. That is, that's incredible. We need to tell everyone what that means.
[00:20:49] Antony Whitaker: 7, 000, 000 club. So, what, so what does that, what does that mean? 
[00:20:53] Meagan McCormack: So, we measure a lot of things here. Um, we measure lifetime sales and so lifetime sales is a big thing for us just like work anniversary is a big thing for us and we have parties for the half million dollar club, the million dollar club all the way up to now we have a 7, 000, 000 person and so she's been with us.
[00:21:11] Meagan McCormack: For a very long time. Um, but her lifetime total is 7 million of that 7 million. She has over 2 million in retail sales, 
[00:21:19] Antony Whitaker: right? So, so 5 million in services, 2 million in retail sales and lifetime. And how long has she been with the company? 
[00:21:26] Meagan McCormack: She's been with us. Oh man, probably around the same, like probably around 38, maybe 35, 36 years.
[00:21:34] Antony Whitaker: Wow. Okay. That's incredible. Um, I'm, you know, lucky enough to, to be an insider into your, uh, private Facebook group and, you know, I'll dip in and out of there every week or so. I'll have a look at what's been going on. And I'm, I'm always intrigued by, again, the amount of celebrations that you do, you know, there's always people celebrating their, their best week ever, their best day ever, their best month ever, their best quarter, their best retail.
[00:22:02] Antony Whitaker: And, and, and they really celebrate it. And it sort of seems so obvious that this is what you should do, but so few salons. You know, go out of their way to acknowledge and genuinely celebrate people's achievements. I mean, some of the things I see you doing, uh, you and your team doing on, on Facebook is quite extraordinary.
[00:22:24] Antony Whitaker: Tell us a little bit about that, about those celebrations and the value in them. 
[00:22:28] Meagan McCormack: Yeah, so we, we about it's actually five years ago. Now I have an app that shows me pictures from the past five years ago. We brought in this little, it's almost like a, um, like a decal that you can post up onto the mirror and it says hashtag BW.
[00:22:45] Meagan McCormack: B W E for best week ever. And so, every time somebody has their best week ever, we put it on their station. We take a picture, we celebrate them. And then it's really cool because our guests get involved and they say, what is that? And they say, oh, I just hit my best week ever last week. And then they, that gets the conversation going and.
[00:23:02] Meagan McCormack: Our staff and our clients have an amazing bond, right? And so, if they, they know that we're very goal oriented, they know that we want to accomplish things. And so, when they see that they're like, oh, well, we want to help you get your best week ever again. And so, it's a conversation and it's, it's exciting and it's fun and they're accomplishing things and they feel good.
[00:23:20] Meagan McCormack: And that's really fun. So, we have best week ever. We have. Celebrations, we have chair like cutting celebrations when people first get onto the floor and so we decorate their station and we have ribbon that goes up and they get to cut it like, like it's a new store opening and so they get to cut their way to their chair.
[00:23:39] Meagan McCormack: Which is also really fun. I mean, we, we celebrate everything that we can celebrate. We try to celebrate. We have people that celebrate, you know, first a hundred thousand in total sales. We have people that celebrate the first time they get a comma in a paycheck. We celebrate the first time that they hit $500 in a day.
[00:23:56] Meagan McCormack: The first time they hit $2,000 or a thousand dollars in a week or $2,000 in a week, or a great retail percentage, 20%, 25%. I mean, we, we try to look for everything that we can celebrate and then celebrate it because life's more fun that way. 
[00:24:11] Antony Whitaker: Exactly. And so, you, you've set up all these metrics and all these systems, more importantly, that allow you to track what those milestones are.
[00:24:20] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Or do you leave it up to the stylist to be able to track their own milestones? 
[00:24:24] Meagan McCormack: So, we actually, we put a lot of it on our management team and our management team does a great job. Um, which we had, we, our it program is incredible. Um, we have one guy who's been with us, he just celebrated 30, I want to say 30 years, maybe 35, no, 30 years with us and he built our entire IT program.
[00:24:45] Meagan McCormack: We're actually going, we're moving to an off the shelf right now, um, which has been a whole another, a whole another project, but. I wish we had more like alerts. Like I wish we had, I wish I could just wish something and it would come up. Like, I wish we had like a Facebook for our company where it had our birthdays and anniversaries and everything would pop up.
[00:25:04] Meagan McCormack: And so, it would be like when somebody hit a huge week or whatever, but we do watch the best week ever is we have managers that watch it and our co-managers watch it. And so that's something that we do manually. So., I mean, you can imagine some of our salons, we have 65 stylists. Some of our salons, like I said, we have more like 15 stylists.
[00:25:23] Meagan McCormack: So, it's a little bit easier for them, a little bit harder for the bigger salons, but it's a huge emotional deposit. We're huge on that. We also have reports and so full reports. And so, we celebrate all the things that we can, like, I know at Memorial city, we just had somebody who is kind of our third tier of.
[00:25:40] Meagan McCormack: Stylists and for our cutters, we have seven tiers that they can go up and she was number two in the entire company for retail sales. And so, you know, when we have something huge like that, I'll send them a personal text message, um, and say, congratulations. You know, we're watching, this is amazing. Their best week ever as I text them every week and say, congratulations, you just hit your best week ever.
[00:26:00] Meagan McCormack: This is awesome. So, it's another nice, like emotional deposits. They know that we're watching and they know that we care and we're excited to see them grow. Yeah. 
[00:26:08] Antony Whitaker: So, what sort of numbers? Are we talking about when you say that this is a person who's the second best at retail in the company are you talking about for that week or or ever or for a month or a year for the week for the week.
[00:26:20] Antony Whitaker: Okay. And so, so what sort of numbers would that be that they've achieved in a week in retail? I just know that when you've got people like, I think your record holder, you told me was Farida who's in the 2 million club in lifetime retail sales. And so, I just wonder how much retail, what does that look like a week?
[00:26:39] Antony Whitaker: Then retail sales, you know, for an individual, what are they averaging? Because, you know, they're not averaging a couple of hundred bucks a week. That's for sure. You know, the, the well over a grand a week, they're probably near it to two grand a week, which is phenomenal. 
[00:26:54] Meagan McCormack: Yeah, absolutely. I just pulled, um, I pulled a sheet. It's not individuals, but like salons our salons will range anywhere from 20, 000 a week in retail sales to last for last week to 181, 000.
[00:27:07] Meagan McCormack: So, so we're saying. Wow. Yes, we're doing just under about a million dollars a week in sales and our sales are 3500 to 30, 000 a week. 
[00:27:17] Antony Whitaker: Okay. Yeah. And as a company, you're doing about a million a week in sales. Yeah. Got it. Okay. Um, the salon you mentioned Memorial City. I went in there. Um, I forget when it was now towards the end of last year.
[00:27:31] Antony Whitaker: Uh, it's probably the biggest salon that I've ever been into. And I know that you, you, when you talked about it to me off air before, you were saying that it was 13, 000 square feet. And I had to Google, like, I don't get my head around it when someone says 13, 000 square feet, how big that is. So, what I did was I Googled, what's the size of a tennis court?
[00:27:50] Antony Whitaker: And, and basically. A 13, 000 square foot salon is the size of six tennis courts. Now, if I, if I'm listening to that as one of our audience thinking that is one hell of a salon, the size of six tennis courts, that's what a 13, 000 square foot salon looks like with a hundred and how many staff did you say?
[00:28:12] Antony Whitaker: 130 staff in there. About 120, about 120, how many front desks people are there at a salon that size? 
[00:28:20] Meagan McCormack: Oh, my gosh. Front desk. I think we probably have 20. 
[00:28:24] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, it's incredible. Just the sheer volume. 
[00:28:29] Meagan McCormack: Yeah, maybe even more between, you know, part time people. I know that we have 20 trainees in the back right now.
[00:28:34] Antony Whitaker: 20 trainees in the back alone of that one salon. Okay. That's impressive. I was lucky enough to speak at your conference a couple of years ago, and I had been forewarned about a little bit before I got there, which is just as well, because it is the most amazing company conference I've ever seen. Um, do you want to talk to us about that?
[00:28:57] Antony Whitaker: I don't want to take anything away from it or add anything in. I just want you to talk about it because it is mind blowing. And I think a lot of it sort of. Is, uh, an example of why you're so successful as a company. And it's sort of taking this thing about celebrating to, uh, you know, to a pinnacle.
[00:29:17] Antony Whitaker: You're not, you're not kidding
[00:29:17] Meagan McCormack: Yes, I would love to talk about it. So, um, another, another part of us, all of our salons are in malls. So, all of our locations are in malls. Um, we work retail hours. We're open seven days a week. We are only closed five days a year. So, we're closed Easter. Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, and our company conference.
[00:29:38] Meagan McCormack: So that's how important conference is for us. And it's a day where we close all of our locations. We get dressed up like we're going to the Academy Awards, and it's the Academy Awards of our company. And so, we have a full day dedicated to celebrating our staff. So, we rent out a ballroom at a hotel downtown.
[00:29:57] Meagan McCormack: And we have everybody come and we start our day with a fashion show from our artistic team and they did an amazing job this year. It was so unbelievable. We had a great stylist come in. His name was Nicholas when his gowns were beautiful. All of his clothes are amazing. Um, but it's a full day of dedicating.
[00:30:16] Meagan McCormack: Of dedicating rewarding our staff and celebrating them for all the accomplishments that they did the year before. So, we, at that time, we'll give away trophies. We give money. We give jewelry. We give trips. We give cars. I mean, you have an opportunity to earn so many things here. And so. It's a party for about eight hours, um, every time we have noise complaints from other people in the hotel, but we have loud music.
[00:30:45] Meagan McCormack: I mean, it's unbelievable. The energy in the room, you just have to feel it. It's something you have to experience, but it's insane. Like the lights are down. We have loud music the entire time. We have videos playing. We are dancing. We're celebrating. It's so much fun. So, so much fun. 
[00:30:59] Antony Whitaker: When I attended it, uh, the only thing I could compare it to is an Anthony Robbins event.
[00:31:04] Antony Whitaker: Um, and so anyone who's been to an Anthony Robbins event will know exactly what it is that we're talking about here. Um, and the way he described it is exactly what it is. I mean, when I, when I first got there, I think it was in the, in the Hilton or the Hyatt and Houston and, and in the, in the foyer of the hotel, there were, I might be wrong, but there are five cars.
[00:31:25] Antony Whitaker: Yes, I think there were five cars with ribbons around them in the in the foyer of the hotel with a big white ribbon around it. Um, and then during the day, you know, it's like, come on down and get your car. You've done the most retail for the year or whatever it was they'd done. And so there were, you know, five cars given away.
[00:31:40] Antony Whitaker: There were checks given away for. Multiple thousands of dollars. I mean, it was really quite incredible. And I think in the room, obviously, it wasn't just the staff. There was obviously some of them had family members and stuff with them, but it was just the most. Incredible event that I've ever seen put on by any, you know, individual hairdressing group, you know, by far absolutely just blows everything else out of the water.
[00:32:07] Antony Whitaker: Um, you also just said, you know, that some of the prizes and stuff at trips, uh, tell us about them. What do you mean that you give away trips? 
[00:32:15] Meagan McCormack: Yeah, so we have two trips a year. We have one for our newer to career staff, their first two years with us. They have a goal. If they hit the goal, then we take them on a cruise to Mexico out of Galveston.
[00:32:26] Meagan McCormack: Usually it's a four- or five-day cruise. It's a lot of fun. And then we have a company trip every year for our top producers. So, there's another goal, um, for, for a volume salons, it's 200, 000 a year. And so, when they hit that goal, then we take them on a trip every year. Usually, it's a five day this year.
[00:32:43] Meagan McCormack: We're going, um, we're flying to Miami and we're taking a cruise to Key West and Cuba actually. Um, so that's really fun. We've gone. I mean, man, where, where have we gone? We've gone to Mexico, we've gone to, last year we went to Montana. We've been to, oh my gosh, we've been so many places. It's crazy.
[00:33:02] Antony Whitaker: Well, I know you do these big international trips 
[00:33:06] Meagan McCormack: Yes, we've done big international trips. We used to do, um, a five-year trip. We haven't done that. We didn't do that two years ago. Um, but in the past, we've taken them to. Australia for two weeks on a cruise all around Italy. We've taken them to, um, on a two-week cruise all around South America. The last five-year trip that we went on was to Tahiti, Bora Bora, and the French Polynesia.
[00:33:30] Meagan McCormack: That was really fun. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's a lot of fun. It's, you know, anywhere from 80 people to 200 people. And wherever we go, we take over. I mean, it's just, it's a blast. I like to call them our family reunions because like I said, we, we are a family company. Um, so imagine a family reunion with, you know, 80 of your closest friends, so hairdressers and their spouses, they can bring their spouse.
[00:33:59] Meagan McCormack: Um, and it's, it's a lot of fun 
[00:34:02] Antony Whitaker: and to attend, they have to achieve certain sales figures. Yes. Right. Okay. So, what were the, what's the, the, you know, the bench benchmark for the sales figure that they have to achieve to attend 
[00:34:14] Meagan McCormack: for a volume salons, which are, is our bigger volume salons. It's 200, 000 a year for our B volumes.
[00:34:20] Meagan McCormack: It's 180, 000 a year. And then some of our smaller salons, it's 150, 000 a 
[00:34:26] Antony Whitaker: year in total sales. So, retail and services. Yes. That is, that is incredible. And just to put this in perspective. Um, the prices that you charge in the salon for haircuts and colors, uh, what, what, what is the sort of range that you charge for haircuts?
[00:34:43] Meagan McCormack: So, our men's haircuts are anywhere from 25 to 60 and our women's cuts are anywhere from 30 to 80. Um. If we have, you know, we are in Texas, so if we have extra thick, extra-long hair, they do, they can charge [00:35:00] extra for that. Um, but that's really our range. I mean, our, our whole business model is we want to get you in and we want to get you out.
[00:35:08] Meagan McCormack: We want to give you a quality cut, but we know how important time is and we want to give you the quality and the smallest amount of time while you look great. Educate you so you can do it at home. Get you on your way. Yeah. 
[00:35:20] Antony Whitaker: I mean a lot of people when you're talking about you got to do 200, 000 a year that they're thinking well We don't charge enough to do that Which is why I wanted to hear you know from you the price point that you're at is not Exorbitant.
[00:35:32] Antony Whitaker: So, at that price point to be doing 200 a year, you've got to be highly productive, don't you? So, you're, you're, you're not, you're not coming to work, sat in the staff room. In fact, when I walked around your salons, there were staff rooms, but there were very few people ever in them. They were all out on the, on the floor working like madly productive.
[00:35:53] Meagan McCormack: Yeah. I mean, our big thing is if you're going to come to work, then like let's focus, right? So. If you're going to be at work, be at work. And if you're going to be at home, be at home. Don't wish you were somewhere else because you're not there. And so, you're just going to be wasting your life. Right? So, if you're going to be at work, then be at work and hustle on.
[00:36:09] Meagan McCormack: You have an opportunity to change people's lives by making them look and feel better. And so, we're really big on making sure that we stay booked and making sure that, you know, we don't have a lot of downtime, downtime, downtime in our eyes. Like our break room is known as the broke room. Downtime in our eyes is not good.
[00:36:29] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, there is one thing that we haven't mentioned. There are so many areas that I can dig into with your business that are that are incredibly inspiring. But one of them is, um, what's the word for it? Uh, all I can say is, is your dad and doctors, uh, can you just flesh that story out because it's, it's, it's well worth hearing.
[00:36:54] Meagan McCormack: Yes, absolutely. So, like I said, at the beginning, um, we're big on education, right? And the whole reason that we wanted to start this company or my parents wanted to start this company and really my mom is, she didn't like the way that people looked at her when she said that she was a hairdresser because stereotypically, that's not a great career choice.
[00:37:12] Meagan McCormack: Right. Um, and so we wanted to get out and really change the industry and change the way that people looked at hairdressers. So, my dad also started a, an education foundation. We actually have two. So, one of them is for all of our employees, children that want to go to college. They can apply to get a scholarship through us.
[00:37:32] Meagan McCormack: We also have a doctor education foundation set up. So, we were at conference one year and my dad was, you know, stalling mom needed some time in the back, getting the show ready. Um, and somebody asked him, you know, when will you be a success? When will you have enough money? And he said, it's not about money.
[00:37:49] Meagan McCormack: And if you're doing it for money, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. But I think I'll be a successful in one of my kids becomes a doctor and he said, well, that's easy for you. You have the money to send them to school. And he was like, no, you misunderstood me. I said, when one of our kids becomes a doctor and he was like, I'm not just saying my kids, I'm saying our kids were a family.
[00:38:08] Meagan McCormack: So, after that, he had three girls run up to him and say, you know, you were talking to me, you were talking to me. And he was like, girls, I was talking to all of you. If you want to become a doctor. I'll pay for it. And so, we, he set up, um, if you want to become a doctor, if you're one of our stylist children, you want to become a doctor, he, we will pay for your education, all of your education, as long as you keep an A average.
[00:38:30] Meagan McCormack: And then once you become a doctor, you have to donate 5 percent of your time for five years back to a charity of your choice, and that's his way of giving back. And so, so far, we've had six doctors come through and graduate. We have three more in school right now. One of our number one person in our company, her daughter is currently in California.
[00:38:52] Meagan McCormack: She's working on her MD PhD program and is amazing doing so well there. And yes, we have six doctors that have come through already. We've got three more on the way. And I think. You know, a few more after that are wanting to come in. So, it's been awesome. It's really incredible. Really life changing. 
[00:39:10] Antony Whitaker: Yeah.
[00:39:10] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. What a, uh, what a company, what a company. Okay. We are heading towards, um, the time where we need to start thinking about wrapping up. I hate bringing up this person, but I have to bring her up because whenever I talk about Visible Changes, she, she is one person that I always bring up and that is, um, Christine Lee.
[00:39:29] Antony Whitaker: And I always feel like it's a little bit of an invasion of privacy talking about her. Uh, but I know that you, you know, you, you, you're proud to talk about the achievements of your staff. She's your all-time record holder. Is that right? Yes. Yeah. So, talk about what that means to people. Like what is a record holder?
[00:39:47] Antony Whitaker: What does that mean? 
[00:39:49] Meagan McCormack: So, um, Christine, uh, her highest year was 612, 000 personally in sales. 
[00:39:58] Antony Whitaker: In total sales, 612, 000 and in haircuts and colors. And retail. Sorry. 
[00:40:03] Meagan McCormack: Hit it in just haircuts, um, haircuts, Keratin treatments, extensions, and retail. No colors
[00:40:10] Antony Whitaker: 612, 000, 612, 
[00:40:13] Meagan McCormack: 000. Yeah. That's incredible. Full disclosure with that, that year she was working a lot, you know, she was working a lot and she wanted to hit that goal.
[00:40:24] Meagan McCormack: The previous person had hit, I think around 602, 000 and she wanted to make sure that she went above it. And so, she was really dedicated to that. She scaled back a little bit. And when I say scaled back, I mean, she works the hours that she wants to work. She vacations when she wants to vacation and she still does over 320, 000 a year.
[00:40:44] Antony Whitaker: And that's on an 80 haircut. Yes. Right. Okay. She's doing a lot of haircuts though. 
[00:40:50] Meagan McCormack: She's doing a lot of haircuts. She can do a haircut in 20 minutes and she sells like no one I've ever seen. I mean, she, she knows how to work. She knows how to be productive. 
[00:41:00] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. So, what is she averaging? 3 or 4 clients an hour then I suppose?
[00:41:04] Antony Whitaker: Yes. Yeah. Okay. And, um, assistance. How many assistants would she have to be able to do that? 
[00:41:10] Meagan McCormack: Our company, we don't have personal assistance. We only have assistance for the entire salon. So, she doesn't have anyone that is assigned to her as an assistant. We just have people in the salon that help. 
[00:41:22] Antony Whitaker: Okay. So, she's doing all her own haircuts, all her own blow dries.
[00:41:25] Antony Whitaker: She's got someone else sweeping up and, and, you know, getting a client a coffee and doing shampoos. That's what she's producing on her own. 
[00:41:33] Meagan McCormack: Yes, she's doing all the cuts and blow dries herself. Absolutely.
[00:41:37] Antony Whitaker: I can remember the, when I heard about Christine the first time and that she'd turned over in total sales, 612, 000, and I can remember hearing that the amount that she was paid that year was basically the same as what the president at that time was president Obama was paid.
[00:41:56] Antony Whitaker: And I thought, isn't that just a phenomenal story that someone can. You know, start off as a hairdresser and they can reach those levels of reward. There's very few people that are capable of doing that. There's very, there's very few salons anywhere in the world. That produce that sort of, uh, sales revenue, but it's all credit to yourself, your, your parents and, uh, and your brother that you've built a, a culture that encourages and rewards people for being that productive.
[00:42:29] Antony Whitaker: So, I, I take my hat off to you and, you know, a lot of these numbers we've, we've shared today. I mean, I've, I've known them from previous conversations and, you know, having some, having had some involvement with you. And it just never ceases to amaze me like as a, as a company, because in our industry, I, you know, I talked to a lot of salon owners and, you know, there are salons out there that are very successful and that's fantastic because we need more success stories.
[00:42:53] Antony Whitaker: Uh, because there's a lot of salons out there that aren't successful and a lot of owners and a lot of stylists that are struggling. And, and it's great for them to hear that it's possible to do that. It's not easy. No one's saying it's easy. But it's, it's possible and, uh, it's, it's always looking at you as a business and going, how do you do this?
[00:43:11] Antony Whitaker: What is the secret? 
[00:43:13] Meagan McCormack: Right. And it's, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. Like we, we are experiencing the same things that are happening throughout the entire industry, right? It's like, we still have walkouts. We still have people leaving. We still have turnover. We still like, we still hurt. We still have the negatives too.
[00:43:29] Meagan McCormack: Yeah. You know, and it's not, I mean, do we have an amazing company? Yes. But do we still have our own things that we're going through? Absolutely. I mean, we're a transition company. We transitioned from my parents into my brother and I, you know, there was ups and downs with that. There's still ups and downs with that.
[00:43:47] Meagan McCormack: There are still ups and downs with booth rent being such a huge thing. And so, it's not, you know, it's not all good all the time, but it's a personal choice on what you're going to look at and where you're going to. Spend your energy, right? And so I'm big on, okay, so let's look for the good in it. There has to be some good and like, let's keep going.
[00:44:06] Meagan McCormack: Yeah, we have to keep going. We have to keep looking and we have to hustle through because at the end of the day, if you really look at it and if you really ask people, you know, what's your purpose in life, a lot of people don't know. But if you say, why did you choose this career? I've asked half of our company.
[00:44:23] Meagan McCormack: We've done sit downs. Now I've asked half of our company. What's your purpose in life? Half of them? No, half of them don't say, you know, why did you choose this career? And I get a version of five things. Number one, I like to help people feel good. I like to help people. Um, I like to be creative. I, I, I love the feeling after they look at themselves and I like to make people happy.
[00:44:44] Meagan McCormack: Nobody says I did it for the money. Nobody says, you know, I did it because It's whatever it's their purpose and I'm like, how crazy isn't that your purpose then? And it finally clicks for them. And I'm like, that's what we do. We change people's lives for the better, you know? And sometimes, you know, we may not have a happy client, but at the end of the day, if you remember your purpose walking in, if you remember, I have an opportunity to change somebody's life.
[00:45:07] Meagan McCormack: And there's a reason that this guest was placed in my chair today, then you don't get stuck in the mundane or the job or the repetition where it gets boring because every day you're looking and saying, okay, how can I be of service to this person? How can I, how can I help them? How can I make them feel better?
[00:45:23] Meagan McCormack: And that's really 
[00:45:24] Antony Whitaker: do. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that is an important thing to, uh, to finish up on there with. Saying that it's not all roses that, you know, that you have the same challenges, even though, you know, you're phenomenally successful company, you know, you have the same challenges and the same frustrations.
[00:45:39] Antony Whitaker: It's a salon owner down the road with 2 or 3 staff. Um, and and that is the reality of it. And it's about, you know, how you deal with those challenges. So, just just to finish up on then. Um, for that person who's listening that, you know, that young salon owner out there who's, who's got 3, 4, 5 staff, 10 staff, whatever it is, you know, 1 salon.
[00:45:59] Antony Whitaker: And that's the majority of the people that will be listening to this, you know, for them to be able to relate to what you're talking about. Yes, it's inspiring, but there must be a part of them that goes, well, that is just so far. Away from connecting with me and my business, but what would you say to them?
[00:46:17] Antony Whitaker: What are 3 takeaways that you would want them to take from this as to these are the 3 things you need to do to build a team and build a business. Whether you've got 2 staff members or, you know, 850 staff members. What would those 3 kernels be? 
[00:46:35] Meagan McCormack: My number one and, and really what I've been honing in on for the last six months has been you need to be your true unapologetic on authentic self.
[00:46:47] Meagan McCormack: Leading your team, right? And so, what does that mean? That means whoever you think you have to be in order to lead, you don't, you have to be you and your truest form. And that's when people are magnetically attracted to you. And that's when people want to be around you. And so, for me, that was a big learning that I've learned in the last six months, because I came in and I was like, well, I have to be this and I have to be that.
[00:47:10] Meagan McCormack: And, you know, I have to be strong and I have to be firm and I have, and I. And recently I'm like, you know what? Like that's not me. That's not where my passion is. That's not where my purpose is me personally like my purpose in life is When I’m open and loving I have a light and I want to pull the light out of other people and help them grow right and so my number one would be Really figure out like hone in on who you are and more importantly the person that you want to become And be that person because there's only one you, so don't try to be anybody else.
[00:47:41] Meagan McCormack: Don't try to have a company like anyone else. Build what you want, right? And enjoy your team and get to know them and allow them to be themselves. Because if you can get them in their true form, people will be magnetically drawn to them, right? And that's our big, that's, I mean, at least that's my personal big focus for our company this year is I want them to figure out the person that they want to become without the fear, without the anxiety and without the social.
[00:48:07] Meagan McCormack: Negativity that people put on, right? And so that would be my number one, like, stay true to who you are and really figure out who you want to become so that you're constantly growing into that person. And you're constantly growing into a better version of you. Number two is celebrate them and it doesn't have to be big.
[00:48:23] Meagan McCormack: You know, one of our people, I just sat down with him. He's been with us for 30, 34 years. He's incredible and he stayed with us because he had failed training the first time and the second time, you know, he got on the floor and one of our managers gave him a cupcake and that cupcake meant so much for him that it's literally kept him here on his worst days.
[00:48:46] Meagan McCormack: And so, it doesn't have to be this huge, like outlandish thing. Right. But like the small things that show people that you appreciate them are what's most important. It can be like, I'm a big person on cards. I love cards. So, I have across from my office desk, I have a wall. It's my thank you wall. So, any thank you card I get, I have, and I put up.
[00:49:06] Meagan McCormack: And so, my hard days, I go and I read people's words on you know how their life has transformed and that's big for me, but that's just me personally. Right? So, like I love cards figure out who your team is and what really makes them tick and then like manage to them right like grow them as a person. We all make mistakes.
[00:49:25] Meagan McCormack: We know that we've made a mistake. You don't have to harp on it. You don't have to make me feel bad. I already know I messed up and so yes acknowledge it So that they learn from it, but don't live there, right? You can get better. We've all made mistakes. We're all human. As long as you learn and grow, then let's keep going.
[00:49:43] Meagan McCormack: You know, we talk about the cars and we talk about the jewellery and yes, those things are fantastic and I love that we do them. It's so cool. It really makes us unique, but it doesn't have to be a car. It doesn't have to be jewellery. It doesn't have to be a trip. But they do want quality time with you and that's something that's really been important too is people have been vocal and they're like, you know, it's nice when we get to sit down and we get to know you as a person and.
[00:50:06] Meagan McCormack: Really figure out who you are because then it gets us better connected with you and I'm like, yeah, that's true. Like that's awesome. And so really getting to know people like on a human level of who they are, what makes them tick and then you can give them rewards based on that. Right? Some people want time off.
[00:50:23] Meagan McCormack: Some people don't want time off, you know what I mean? Yeah. But it doesn't take a lot, like it can be a card, it can be a thank you, it can be a dinner if you want to make it a dinner. I mean, there's so many things that you can do, but dangling carrots in front of people to get them motivated really works, right?
[00:50:38] Meagan McCormack: And having a, having a goal for the entire team to do is really great than just individual because then they're working together as a team, which also helps. Um, and then, Oh, one more piece of advice. Education and personal development is my big thing, right? So, um, I'm constantly reading. I'm constantly listening.
[00:51:00] Meagan McCormack: Listening to videos and podcasts and I'm constantly sharing it. I'm sharing it with our management team. I'm sharing it. I mean, I share it with my friends. I share it with everybody. Right. And I, cause I'm just big on it. Like I want people to grow. I want them to think outside the box. And so if you have no idea how to motivate a team, I would be looking at like a Tony Robbins.
[00:51:19] Meagan McCormack: I'd be looking at Earl Nightingale. I'd be looking at Dale Carnegie. I'd be looking at Les Brown, Zig Ziglar. I mean, these are people who have been in the game forever. That are still relevant that are still incredible. And it's easy stuff. It's things that you've heard before. And it's just a nice refresh.
[00:51:36] Meagan McCormack: And it's also nice to have your staff listen to somebody that's not you. Yes. So that they get a different message. Yeah, of course. So you can play a tape and you can talk about it and how it relates. I just did. I mean, I did a big meeting. In January, like I said, at our kickoff and I got real with them on things that I was struggling with and how I've grown personally.
[00:51:58] Meagan McCormack: And, you know, I looked at a relationship that I had with Johnny and I was like, you know, we go through things too. And I was just honest and I was like, but I looked at him differently and this is how I've grown as a person. And this is how I want to grow. And, um, it really connected with people, right?
[00:52:14] Meagan McCormack: Because everybody looks internally at what they have going on. So, a lot of people had issues with their family members and they were like, wow and I only changed me in that, right? And so also like sharing, sharing your weaknesses and sharing where you're growing and sharing, you know, aha moments when you've realized something.
[00:52:32] Meagan McCormack: I think there's also something to be said about sometimes we get really stuck in, in arguments and we know that we're wrong, but we're already so far in that we can't go back now. 
[00:52:43] Meagan McCormack: It's also, important to be like, okay, you're right. I'm sorry. But I have no issue apologizing. I have no issue going in front of my management team or our company and saying, you know, I'm so sorry I messed up.
[00:52:56] Meagan McCormack: Please forgive me because I know I'm gonna mess up and I know they're gonna mess up and the great part is we have a culture where you're allowed to mess up. You're allowed to grow and you're allowed to continue and not that would be you. The type of culture that I think most people would want to work in.
[00:53:11] Meagan McCormack: And so if you can create that, then awesome. And if I can help with that, or if you know, anything that I've said helps with that, I hope it did. It's, it's really a great, it's really a great culture to have everybody that wants to do well. 
[00:53:24] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Wow. That's, that's a fantastic. I can't add anything to that. Um, okay.
[00:53:29] Antony Whitaker: So finally, where can people connect with you? You're on social media, your Instagram, 
[00:53:34] Meagan McCormack: I am on social media. I'm on Instagram. I'm on Facebook. Yeah, I'm on both of those. Megan is, weirdly it's M E A G A N. But yeah, I mean, find me on Facebook. Facebook's easy. Instagram's easy. Again, both of those I'm in. I have an email.
[00:53:53] Meagan McCormack: Also, it's meagan@visiblechanges.com. Super easy. Yeah. I mean, I'm here. Anybody needs anything?
[00:53:58] Antony Whitaker: Fantastic. Okay. Well, Meagan McCormack, it has been absolutely fantastic. I always enjoy just sitting here and listening to you and hearing about your business and, um, and, and what you've achieved and how you achieve it.
[00:54:12] Antony Whitaker: And it never ceases to, uh, amaze and inspire me. And I'm sure. Likewise, it would have inspired a lot of our listeners. So thank you ever so much for your time. Once again. 
[00:54:22] Meagan McCormack: Absolutely. And thank you for having me. So exciting to be a part of this. 
[00:54:26] Antony Whitaker: Good. My pleasure. Thank you.
[00:54:31] Antony Whitaker: Thank you for listening to today's podcast. If you'd like to connect with us, you'll find us at grow my salon business. com or on Facebook and Instagram at grow my salon business. And if you enjoyed tuning into our podcast, make sure that you subscribe, like, and share. Until next time, this is Anthony Whittaker wishing you continued success.