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Welcome back to another episode
of the Startup Therapy podcast.

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This is Ryan Rutan, joined
as always by my friend,

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the founder and CEO of
Startups.com, Will Schroeder.

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Will, two years ago, if
you wanted to start a

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tech company, you needed
at least three people.

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You needed the product person,
a developer, a marketer.

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Today, you might not
need any of them.

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Yeah.

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In a couple of years, you
might not even be allowed

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to hire them, right?

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Yeah.

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And that honestly freaks
me out a little bit.

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The very real possibility that
the future of startups is one

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person and a stack of AI is
not as a backup plan, right?

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Or, or a novel thing,
but, but as the default.

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And I'm gonna be honest with
you, I love working with a team.

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Yeah.

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Some of the best moments of my
career, and I know of yours,

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have been being locked in a room
with smart people arguing about

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something really dumb until
it became something brilliant.

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So when I tell you I think
the era of hiring people

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might be ending, I'm not
trying to sell you on it, I'm

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processing it out loud with
you here in the room, which is

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I guess what this episode is.

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It's terrifying.

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And here's, here's what's
interesting about our

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purview, right, Ryan?

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Like, we tend to forget- Yeah
... 'cause we do this stuff all day.

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We see all the startups long
before they become startups.

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Like, even- Right ... like a
venture firm doing Series A

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deals, Series B deals, they see
startups, like, three years in.

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You know, depending when,
when they get to that point-

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Yeah ... where they're
raising that kind of money.

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Now, I'm not saying that
they're not ahead of the curve.

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They are, and
they're paid to be.

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But we get to see
startups when it's still

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an idea in their head.

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Like, they, they haven't
even gotten to the point

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where the, the product
is necessarily- Right

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you know, raising or et cetera.

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So we have an interesting
purview of what I would say

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is the zeitgeist of startups
and, and founders as a whole.

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And what we're seeing right now
are founders, the conversation

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going from, "Hey, I've got
this great app idea. I gotta

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find a developer, I gotta
find a marketer" to- Yeah

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"I don't need to
find anybody." Right.

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"I already built
it, right?" Yeah.

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"This weekend." Like, "I don't
need those people." Now, we did

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an- another episode, uh, not too
long ago, Ryan, where we talked

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about I don't need the capital.

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Right.

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And we talked about, you
know, where VCs and their

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role is, and said, "Who cares
about those guys," right?

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Well,

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very, very linked to
today's conversation, right?

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Right.

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That's what I mean.

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This is the precursor to that.

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Yeah.

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Y- you know, what happens when
we're entering a world, and we

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are whether we like it or not-
Yes ... where hiring people or

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building a team is an option,
and, and, and, uh, this is...

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I'm gonna bury the lead on this
one, maybe a downgrade, right?

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Like, like- Yeah ... that's
actually possible.

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Fucking terrifying, right?

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I, again- Right ... you
said the same thing.

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You and I are like, "Whoa,

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dude."

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This is happening really fast

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Yeah.

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I, I think that's the, the
interesting thing is that,

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like, this, this isn't
just an ideology, right?

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This isn't just can we do this?

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This is economics
meeting capability.

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That's a great way to put it.

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I've never heard
it put that way.

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That's real- really
well structured.

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The teams didn't
get worse, right?

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Yeah.

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The alternative just
got dramatically better.

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Uh, but the other thing
I think is gonna be super

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interesting, and you, you just
kinda hinted at it, which is,

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like, the way you and I are
thinking about this versus,

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you know, somebody who's just
starting out and building now.

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There's a generational
split coming, man.

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Yeah.

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We're, we're gonna have founders
who came up with teams versus

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founders who never had one
in the first place, right?

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You know, I actually- The
second group's not even

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gonna feel that loss.

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It's, think about it in, in
regards of, like, or relation

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to work from home, right?

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I was just gonna say the
same exact shit, yep.

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You and I had to go
through- Absolutely ... a

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process to get there.

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Right.

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But there were a lot of people
whose first job was an interview

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via Zoom, and then you-
Yep ... start the next day in

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your new office, Zoom, right?

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That's it.

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They don't know the difference.

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There's folks
getting damn near 30.

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I was gonna, sorry, I
was gonna build on that.

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There, there are folks damn near
30 that have never stepped foot

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in an office and never will,

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in most cases.

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Yeah, exactly.

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It's, it's absolutely wild.

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And, and I think anybody right
now who's thinking, like, you

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know, "AI will never replace
people," I think they're either

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lack the internet or they're,
they're selling us something or

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they haven't shipped a product
in, like, at least, what?

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12 to 18 months.

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With this weird boat.

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Now, I want the audience to
understand this because you

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get, kinda like when crypto
was becoming a thing, you

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get these zealots that talk
about- Yep ... like, what the

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future's gonna be and, and,
and they're- Yeah, yeah ... so

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sold on it, et cetera.

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I wouldn't call us critics
because w- we definitely

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embrace the technology.

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I love- 100% ... the technology.

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But I'm equally terrified about
it because every time- Oh,

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yeah ... I, I ship something,
I'm like, "What does that mean?"

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Like, you know, what does that
mean for the entire ecosystem

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that was usually a part of that,

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that isn't?

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It's the rollercoaster
feel, right?

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It's the r- m- meaning,
like, in the, in the

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adrenaline sense, right?

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Like, every time I'm building
something and it just happens

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to go exactly as I want to,
like, there's this level

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of, like, real excitement.

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Yeah.

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And then also as you, as you,
as you o- go over the top

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of that hill, like, there
is a thrill, but there's

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also a feeling that, like,
literally and figuratively, the

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bottom's dropping out, right?

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Exactly.

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And you just don't know, like,
where does this actually stop?

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And, and I gotta say, I don't
just look at it as, hey,

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you know, this is g- this
is bad for people who are in

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the startup ecosystem that,
you know, would be employed

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by a startup, et cetera.

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Yep.

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Selfishly, I'm looking at
myself going, "Damn, dude,

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the value that I introduce
to the world on a-" Yeah

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daily basis is getting
both accelerated, because

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what I can do is geometric-
Yes ... and eroded- It's

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so bizarre, isn't it?

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... because what I used to do
doesn't matter anymore.

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Like- Yeah ... I used to
get paid- Yeah ... so to

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speak, I'm, I'm kind of u-
a bit of a euphemism here,

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but, like, I used to get
paid to tell people how to

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build a pitch deck, right?

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Yep.

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Well, now there's 100
ways to find out how

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to build a pitch deck.

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I'm not gonna get paid for that-
Well, yeah ... much longer.

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Now you can tell Claude how to
build a pitch deck, and you can

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give that to a, a thousand other
people, and Claude can tell them

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how to build their pitch deck.

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In every language,

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right?

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Yep.

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At every stage,
in every currency.

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Yeah.

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Like, I mean, like, that's- Yep
... the geometric part, right?

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Can we also pick the colors?

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No, you cannot.

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That absolutely has
to be done by a human.

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No one could- Right ... possibly
automate font color selection.

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Yeah.

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Let's start from that.

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Let's say that back in the
day of, of, of yore, which

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is, like, two years ago,

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right?

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Let's acknowledge the absurdity
of that for a second, right?

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2023 just became... Or was
that, no, 2024 just became

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the days of yore, right?

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It's absolutely mind-boggling
how fast this is moving.

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But it really

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is.

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But I mean, but it really is.

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Yeah.

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So, so let's timestamp
that for a minute, just

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so the audience- Sure

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can say, "Okay, this is how
long ago we're talking about."

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If you and I wanted to build
a startup, we would, just like

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you said, I mean, I'm using
tech as an example, but it, it

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varies per industry, uh, and we
wanted to build a mobile app.

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Uh, we find developer and
we find marketer, right?

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And so you've got product
person, developer, marketer,

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just as you mentioned.

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And- Yep ... you know,
there's, there's different

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combinations, but that was
typically the triumvirate

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that everybody wound up with.

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Like, back in the day when they
were doing startup weekends,

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it was always, like, the
hacker, the hustler, and what

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do they call the designer?

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I don't remember.

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Anyways, I'm sure it
started with an H.

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Point is, that was it.

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Created a construct that
everybody kind of agreed

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with, things like co-founders.

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"Hey, Ryan, you're an incredible
developer. I'm a product

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guy. I'm gonna give you half
the, the company." Yeah.

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For what?

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To build something
I can't build.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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Why in the hell-
Would I do that today?

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So stick on that, right?

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Because, like, we, we look back
at that w- with some longing,

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and it's like, that three-person
team wasn't a strategy, right?

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It was a limitation.

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And that's what's
killing me, right.

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Nobody actually wanted to give
up 25% equity just so they

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could have a chance at getting
that product to market, right?

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Right, right.

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They just, they had to.

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Right.

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The find a technical co-founder
was a hell of a plot line-

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Yep ... for 25 years.

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A very long time.

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But it just ended.

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It is an entry token.

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Quietly.

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Right.

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And I

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think most people
haven't even noticed yet.

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The developers have.

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Yeah.

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That's for sure.

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So just two years ago, you
needed these elements as,

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again, your entry token to be
able to get into this game.

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If you didn't have developer,
you didn't have product.

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If you didn't have product,
you have nothing, right?

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Yeah.

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I would argue that soon
thereafter you needed

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marketer to get you acquiring
customers, et cetera.

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And depending on who the person
was, they had a certain set

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of skills that allowed them
to acquire through social

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or through whatever means,
you know, they were good at.

246
00:07:48,314 --> 00:07:51,785
But your ability to both
build and manage and have the

247
00:07:51,785 --> 00:07:54,544
domain knowledge across all of
those fields simultaneously-

248
00:07:54,665 --> 00:07:57,354
Yeah ... w- was, by definition,
usually gonna be pretty weak.

249
00:07:57,974 --> 00:07:58,135
Yeah.

250
00:07:58,135 --> 00:08:01,095
You and I are in a, a, an
unusual position in that we

251
00:08:01,095 --> 00:08:05,894
spent our last 30 years in our
career doing tech, product, and

252
00:08:05,894 --> 00:08:07,265
marketing all at the same time.

253
00:08:07,294 --> 00:08:07,474
Yep.

254
00:08:07,525 --> 00:08:10,515
Like, we actually grew up in
that triumvirate, if you will.

255
00:08:10,515 --> 00:08:11,445
That, yeah, exactly.

256
00:08:11,445 --> 00:08:14,385
Um, and so it's unusual
for us to have all those

257
00:08:14,385 --> 00:08:17,455
skillsets, although I think,
you know, you would agree, as

258
00:08:17,455 --> 00:08:20,784
time went on and technology
became, you know, much

259
00:08:20,985 --> 00:08:23,784
deeper as far as a knowledge
base, we couldn't keep up.

260
00:08:24,114 --> 00:08:24,595
You know, we had to- No

261
00:08:24,595 --> 00:08:25,154
kind of pick our lane.

262
00:08:25,445 --> 00:08:28,345
I still remember, like, the
last line of code I actually

263
00:08:28,345 --> 00:08:30,875
tried to ship and gave up
in frustration and handed

264
00:08:30,875 --> 00:08:31,684
off to one of my devs.

265
00:08:31,775 --> 00:08:32,915
Like- Yeah ... I
remember that moment.

266
00:08:33,095 --> 00:08:33,224
Yeah.

267
00:08:33,224 --> 00:08:34,625
I, I stopped at JavaScript.

268
00:08:35,845 --> 00:08:36,224
Yep.

269
00:08:36,425 --> 00:08:37,815
That was around the time.

270
00:08:37,845 --> 00:08:38,434
Yeah, it was.

271
00:08:38,434 --> 00:08:39,625
I think it was
ColdFusion, actually.

272
00:08:39,765 --> 00:08:40,305
Yeah, yeah.

273
00:08:40,305 --> 00:08:41,015
Oh, that's a great product.

274
00:08:41,154 --> 00:08:45,135
So anyway, we're in the
spot now where those people

275
00:08:45,135 --> 00:08:46,705
were going to get recruited.

276
00:08:47,195 --> 00:08:50,144
They were going to get brought
into, uh, startup teams.

277
00:08:50,404 --> 00:08:51,875
They were going to-
Yeah ... have a meaningful,

278
00:08:51,915 --> 00:08:52,974
uh, seat at the table.

279
00:08:52,974 --> 00:08:54,584
They were going to... You
know, they were, "Hey,

280
00:08:54,614 --> 00:08:56,044
if I don't agree with it,
I'm not gonna build it.

281
00:08:56,044 --> 00:08:58,515
So if I don't agree- Yep ... we
don't have this disagreement,

282
00:08:58,875 --> 00:09:02,785
things won't move forward."
Now all of a sudden, like- Yeah

283
00:09:03,115 --> 00:09:04,664
... Claude doesn't argue about shit.

284
00:09:05,225 --> 00:09:05,294
No.

285
00:09:05,554 --> 00:09:07,125
Like, just does what I say.

286
00:09:07,335 --> 00:09:08,714
So stick on that
for a second, Will.

287
00:09:08,955 --> 00:09:09,035
Yeah.

288
00:09:09,035 --> 00:09:11,315
So, so here's, here's, uh,
just to keep some balance

289
00:09:11,315 --> 00:09:12,755
this entire conversation,
I want to bring up- Yeah

290
00:09:12,755 --> 00:09:15,615
a, a counterpoint here, which
is that, like, in some weird

291
00:09:15,615 --> 00:09:20,404
way we could argue that equity
dilution was a bit of a forcing

292
00:09:20,404 --> 00:09:22,184
function for quality, right?

293
00:09:22,184 --> 00:09:24,554
If you had to give up real
ownership to get a co-founder

294
00:09:24,554 --> 00:09:26,774
to build something- Yeah ... you
had to actually convince him

295
00:09:26,774 --> 00:09:29,255
the idea was good, and you
had to decide whether you

296
00:09:29,255 --> 00:09:31,015
wanted to give up that much
equity to do that, right?

297
00:09:31,074 --> 00:09:33,455
AI doesn't give a shit if
your idea is good or not.

298
00:09:33,455 --> 00:09:34,925
It's gonna build anyways.

299
00:09:34,964 --> 00:09:35,235
Yeah, yeah.

300
00:09:35,235 --> 00:09:38,565
Which, let's be honest, isn't
necessarily an entirely a win.

301
00:09:38,675 --> 00:09:39,824
It, mostly a win.

302
00:09:40,274 --> 00:09:43,354
But- But m- lacking that
pushback and lacking

303
00:09:43,354 --> 00:09:45,895
that kind of additional
friction and filter, it

304
00:09:45,895 --> 00:09:47,095
can, can come at a cost.

305
00:09:47,325 --> 00:09:50,185
There's this great quote,
I think it's from Jay and

306
00:09:50,185 --> 00:09:52,695
Silent Bob Strikes Back
or something like that.

307
00:09:52,744 --> 00:09:53,225
Okay.

308
00:09:53,395 --> 00:09:55,765
And they're explaining the,
what the internet is, right?

309
00:09:56,004 --> 00:09:56,365
Oh, yes.

310
00:09:56,365 --> 00:09:58,135
And they're saying, "The
internet gave everybody in the

311
00:09:58,135 --> 00:10:00,865
world an opportunity to use
their voice, and as it turns

312
00:10:00,865 --> 00:10:03,205
out, they chose to use it." Yes.

313
00:10:03,205 --> 00:10:04,494
Like, this is AI.

314
00:10:04,494 --> 00:10:07,074
This is them saying, "We've
given everybody the ability to

315
00:10:07,074 --> 00:10:10,174
build something, but we haven't
decided whether it's any good."

316
00:10:10,174 --> 00:10:11,654
Self-publishing
did the same thing.

317
00:10:11,654 --> 00:10:11,705
Yes.

318
00:10:11,705 --> 00:10:13,444
Being able to publish your
own stuff on the equivalent

319
00:10:13,444 --> 00:10:14,804
of a- Yeah ... Spotify
did the same thing.

320
00:10:15,025 --> 00:10:16,635
You didn't have to be
good because you had

321
00:10:16,635 --> 00:10:17,425
the tools either way.

322
00:10:17,425 --> 00:10:17,534
Right.

323
00:10:17,804 --> 00:10:21,045
Whereas before, there was a
filter function that society

324
00:10:21,045 --> 00:10:21,804
kind of applied to you.

325
00:10:22,554 --> 00:10:22,764
Yeah.

326
00:10:23,004 --> 00:10:24,905
Now arguably, you could
say that there was an

327
00:10:24,905 --> 00:10:27,225
additional filter back then
that wasn't necessarily

328
00:10:27,225 --> 00:10:29,335
the best thing, which was
the translation between the

329
00:10:29,335 --> 00:10:30,894
person with the idea- Yeah

330
00:10:30,894 --> 00:10:32,085
and the person with
the technical skills

331
00:10:32,085 --> 00:10:32,764
to do it, right?

332
00:10:32,764 --> 00:10:35,635
So we've kinda traded
one potential quality

333
00:10:35,635 --> 00:10:36,475
barrier for another.

334
00:10:36,685 --> 00:10:39,644
All of a sudden we get into
this position where we don't

335
00:10:40,045 --> 00:10:41,385
have to bring those people in.

336
00:10:41,385 --> 00:10:42,264
I think that's important.

337
00:10:42,675 --> 00:10:44,065
I think that's important-
Yeah ... because-

338
00:10:44,175 --> 00:10:44,324
Yeah

339
00:10:44,764 --> 00:10:47,715
... 
have to and optional are b-
are gonna be what this entire

340
00:10:47,715 --> 00:10:48,965
conversation turns on, right?

341
00:10:49,624 --> 00:10:49,974
Yeah.

342
00:10:50,224 --> 00:10:52,955
The startup ecosystem was
largely based on need.

343
00:10:53,395 --> 00:10:56,535
Nobody hired 500 people because
they needed more friends.

344
00:10:56,565 --> 00:10:57,184
Maybe somebody did.

345
00:10:57,224 --> 00:10:57,414
Right.

346
00:10:57,535 --> 00:10:57,855
Right?

347
00:10:58,075 --> 00:11:00,245
You've hired 500 people
and created all that

348
00:11:00,245 --> 00:11:02,234
liability 'cause you
needed all of those people.

349
00:11:02,234 --> 00:11:02,664
You needed it.

350
00:11:03,044 --> 00:11:03,135
Right?

351
00:11:03,135 --> 00:11:03,194
Yeah.

352
00:11:03,194 --> 00:11:04,175
You needed that function.

353
00:11:04,755 --> 00:11:07,285
I was talking to a founder the
other night, and we were talking

354
00:11:07,285 --> 00:11:08,694
about, you know, staffing plans.

355
00:11:09,124 --> 00:11:10,904
And he was saying, "Hey, you
know, I'm, I'm looking to staff

356
00:11:10,904 --> 00:11:14,605
up to maybe a couple hundred
people." And I said, "Why?" And

357
00:11:14,605 --> 00:11:16,624
he said, "Well, I need people
for, you know, it's on the

358
00:11:16,624 --> 00:11:17,205
ground kind of stuff." Are you

359
00:11:17,205 --> 00:11:18,864
starting a sports league, sir?

360
00:11:20,164 --> 00:11:22,775
No, he, he had a very cogent
reason for it, but it wasn't-

361
00:11:22,775 --> 00:11:23,724
Yeah ... what it used to be.

362
00:11:24,124 --> 00:11:24,565
It wasn't,

363
00:11:24,605 --> 00:11:26,355
"
I need- Isn't it funny- ... 200
developers to build anything"

364
00:11:26,355 --> 00:11:27,934
... that that sounds exotic now?

365
00:11:28,025 --> 00:11:28,234
Yeah.

366
00:11:28,264 --> 00:11:28,404
Right?

367
00:11:28,404 --> 00:11:28,974
Right, exactly.

368
00:11:29,005 --> 00:11:30,205
Oh, wow, how avant-garde.

369
00:11:30,205 --> 00:11:32,005
You're going to hire humans?

370
00:11:32,005 --> 00:11:32,444
Humans.

371
00:11:32,934 --> 00:11:33,194
Right?

372
00:11:33,194 --> 00:11:33,645
How retro.

373
00:11:33,645 --> 00:11:34,724
How quickly we got there.

374
00:11:36,075 --> 00:11:37,624
But okay, so but let
me build on that.

375
00:11:38,105 --> 00:11:43,455
So but there's this new filter
that didn't apply before- Yeah

376
00:11:43,635 --> 00:11:46,425
which is, has gone, is about
to go the other direction,

377
00:11:46,425 --> 00:11:49,434
where it used to be, "Hey, I've
got humans. Maybe AI might be

378
00:11:49,434 --> 00:11:54,524
better." Now it's, "I've got
AI. Will a human be better?"

379
00:11:54,874 --> 00:11:55,214
Is- Right?

380
00:11:55,214 --> 00:11:55,294
Yeah.

381
00:11:55,294 --> 00:11:57,035
Is there a version of
having a human that's, that,

382
00:11:57,035 --> 00:11:57,815
that's better than this?

383
00:11:57,895 --> 00:11:58,205
Yeah.

384
00:11:58,205 --> 00:11:59,984
And ah, dude,

385
00:12:00,884 --> 00:12:01,925
this gets dangerous.

386
00:12:01,925 --> 00:12:03,285
This is a slippery slope.

387
00:12:03,665 --> 00:12:04,514
It, it's tough, man.

388
00:12:04,555 --> 00:12:06,384
I mean, let's, let's throw
a couple things out there.

389
00:12:06,514 --> 00:12:06,624
Yeah.

390
00:12:06,624 --> 00:12:09,115
The pricing, you can't
argue with that part.

391
00:12:09,294 --> 00:12:09,374
Right.

392
00:12:09,374 --> 00:12:09,904
You just can't.

393
00:12:10,225 --> 00:12:10,354
Right.

394
00:12:10,354 --> 00:12:12,374
$200 a month for output
that used to cost us

395
00:12:12,374 --> 00:12:13,714
200K a year in salary.

396
00:12:13,714 --> 00:12:16,945
The, the math doesn't care about
your feelings at all, right?

397
00:12:17,024 --> 00:12:17,195
Yeah.

398
00:12:17,285 --> 00:12:20,634
Like, the math is the math, and
the math is clearly in favor

399
00:12:20,805 --> 00:12:22,184
of the AI side of the equation.

400
00:12:22,615 --> 00:12:25,484
Yeah, and, and so we look
at, okay, how many things

401
00:12:25,484 --> 00:12:28,354
are gonna go away from a
have to have human, okay?

402
00:12:28,734 --> 00:12:28,984
Yeah.

403
00:12:29,175 --> 00:12:32,585
Let's start from where two
years got us, so 2024 to 2026

404
00:12:32,585 --> 00:12:33,464
when we're recording this.

405
00:12:33,714 --> 00:12:36,604
In two years, I can build an
MVP of just about anything.

406
00:12:37,055 --> 00:12:37,205
Yep.

407
00:12:37,205 --> 00:12:37,425
Right?

408
00:12:37,604 --> 00:12:38,805
I'm not saying it'll scale.

409
00:12:38,805 --> 00:12:41,020
I know there's a whole
argument as like w- Take

410
00:12:41,020 --> 00:12:42,330
a breath, it will, right?

411
00:12:42,379 --> 00:12:46,349
Like- Yep ... but even
that, which, Ryan, how many

412
00:12:46,349 --> 00:12:49,009
startups were raising money
or looking for co-founder

413
00:12:49,009 --> 00:12:50,339
or whatever for just-

414
00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:53,210
Just to try to stand
up a basic website.

415
00:12:53,210 --> 00:12:54,210
Yes, yes.

416
00:12:54,540 --> 00:12:58,269
Kills me to know, like, this
isn't a fair comparison,

417
00:12:58,419 --> 00:13:01,689
but it's like when you see
the medication come out

418
00:13:01,819 --> 00:13:03,849
when it's too late to have
saved some people, right?

419
00:13:03,989 --> 00:13:06,730
It's like- That's an
interesting... Yeah ... how

420
00:13:06,730 --> 00:13:12,030
many startups withered on
the vine that wouldn't have

421
00:13:12,060 --> 00:13:14,799
simply because they couldn't
get access to the basic

422
00:13:14,799 --> 00:13:17,830
necessities of just being able
to kinda show what this thing

423
00:13:17,830 --> 00:13:20,170
might do- Right ... in a way
that could have allowed it to

424
00:13:20,170 --> 00:13:23,040
get some traction that would
now be completely possible.

425
00:13:23,479 --> 00:13:24,339
That's interesting, man.

426
00:13:24,569 --> 00:13:26,679
I would- There's an entire
project around just going

427
00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,659
back to the old startup
graveyards and being like,

428
00:13:28,769 --> 00:13:32,089
"What could we refire with
some AI?" Everything, right?

429
00:13:32,130 --> 00:13:33,310
And, and look- Yeah.

430
00:13:33,610 --> 00:13:36,369
And this isn't to say that
just applying AI makes things

431
00:13:36,369 --> 00:13:38,690
good or feasible or whatever.

432
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:38,760
No.

433
00:13:38,990 --> 00:13:40,709
It's the fact that
it's even an option.

434
00:13:40,709 --> 00:13:42,400
Now, now- Yes ... I
wanna take this back.

435
00:13:43,089 --> 00:13:45,900
What we're talking about isn't
necessarily, "Hey, let's take

436
00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:48,120
a 200-person organization
and make it a one-person

437
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:48,959
organization." Correct.

438
00:13:48,959 --> 00:13:49,499
That happens.

439
00:13:49,770 --> 00:13:51,639
But what we're talking about
right now is the one-person

440
00:13:51,639 --> 00:13:55,610
organization that doesn't need
to grow past- Correct ... a

441
00:13:55,730 --> 00:13:58,840
one-person organization, not
because they chose not to, but

442
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,139
because they don't have to.

443
00:14:00,139 --> 00:14:00,949
Well- And

444
00:14:00,949 --> 00:14:03,590
that's what's crazy to me
... take that a step even further.

445
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:03,699
Yeah.

446
00:14:03,730 --> 00:14:07,010
It's the one-person organization
that wasn't ever going to

447
00:14:07,010 --> 00:14:09,730
grow past that person, that
wasn't ever going to release

448
00:14:09,730 --> 00:14:11,760
the website, that wasn't ever
gonna get enough traction to

449
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,309
be able to attract dollar one
of investment or- Yep ... team

450
00:14:14,309 --> 00:14:15,889
member number two, right?

451
00:14:15,889 --> 00:14:16,529
Right, right.

452
00:14:16,699 --> 00:14:19,559
There were so many of those out
there because they were stuck

453
00:14:19,879 --> 00:14:21,720
too far behind the idea curve.

454
00:14:22,050 --> 00:14:23,059
Now they don't have to be.

455
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,569
Here's where I was saying
earlier that, like, you

456
00:14:25,569 --> 00:14:28,239
know, as a founder, I'm
looking both directions.

457
00:14:28,239 --> 00:14:29,569
I'm looking at the world
in front of me and the

458
00:14:29,569 --> 00:14:30,840
world behind me, right?

459
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:30,980
Yeah.

460
00:14:31,660 --> 00:14:34,120
And when I look at the world
behind me, like basically, like,

461
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,620
like where is the ground falling
from below my feet, it's huh.

462
00:14:38,190 --> 00:14:41,400
Like a couple years ago, if
Ryan and I spent years and years

463
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,020
and years building a bespoke
platform with a phenomenal

464
00:14:44,020 --> 00:14:47,410
amount of knowledge around it
called startups.com- ... that

465
00:14:47,410 --> 00:14:50,270
was a moat that we had created
that people couldn't cross.

466
00:14:50,270 --> 00:14:50,320
Yep.

467
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,289
Like, you know, our competitors
couldn't do the same thing,

468
00:14:52,289 --> 00:14:53,050
and so we did it well.

469
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:53,289
Yeah.

470
00:14:53,690 --> 00:14:55,949
And now I'm like, well,
shit, now, like, literally

471
00:14:55,949 --> 00:14:56,850
anybody could do that.

472
00:14:57,270 --> 00:14:58,490
Now- Who's that
sitting at my desk?

473
00:14:58,729 --> 00:14:58,820
Yeah.

474
00:14:58,850 --> 00:14:59,509
Oh, hi, Claude.

475
00:14:59,710 --> 00:14:59,809
Yeah.

476
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:01,059
Exactly, right?

477
00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:03,800
Now, again, it's not
quite that simple.

478
00:15:03,839 --> 00:15:05,880
I, I think when people say-
Yeah ... "Oh, like AI is

479
00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,789
gonna rebuild salesforce.com,"
it'll rebuild some stuff.

480
00:15:08,789 --> 00:15:10,550
Salesforce.com- Right
... will probably be okay.

481
00:15:11,020 --> 00:15:14,180
But again, I'm looking at
it from the, shit, because

482
00:15:14,180 --> 00:15:17,740
everybody can do stuff or get
access to what I charged for

483
00:15:18,020 --> 00:15:20,070
five seconds ago, they will.

484
00:15:20,410 --> 00:15:22,110
And how do I stay two
steps ahead of them?

485
00:15:22,380 --> 00:15:25,720
Now, I look at this and I say,
if we're talking about the

486
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,570
future of a one-person startup,
what is clearly gonna get taken

487
00:15:29,570 --> 00:15:31,729
off the table, being stuff that
you're gonna pay money for?

488
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,589
Some things that come to mind,
Ryan, uh, customer support.

489
00:15:34,869 --> 00:15:34,910
Yeah.

490
00:15:35,020 --> 00:15:36,550
I think customer support's
deader than dead.

491
00:15:36,945 --> 00:15:37,174
Right?

492
00:15:37,445 --> 00:15:39,365
Don't get me wrong, I think
it's valuable to talk to

493
00:15:39,365 --> 00:15:40,525
a human upon escalation.

494
00:15:40,895 --> 00:15:41,065
Yeah.

495
00:15:41,134 --> 00:15:44,295
But I think an AI- But one
... that can do 90% of the job,

496
00:15:44,295 --> 00:15:46,905
it can respond immediately,
it can take you to where you

497
00:15:46,905 --> 00:15:48,025
need to be, it can do- Yeah

498
00:15:48,214 --> 00:15:50,514
uh, low-level resolution,
et cetera, there's n-

499
00:15:50,624 --> 00:15:53,454
like, a, a human is vastly
inferior on that one.

500
00:15:53,524 --> 00:15:53,694
Yeah.

501
00:15:53,935 --> 00:15:56,604
Talking to a human was better
than not talking to a human

502
00:15:56,604 --> 00:15:58,724
when there was no other option
than talking to a human.

503
00:15:58,724 --> 00:15:59,005
Exactly.

504
00:15:59,005 --> 00:15:59,224
Right?

505
00:15:59,224 --> 00:16:01,565
It, sitting in a, in, in a
queue to wait to talk to me

506
00:16:01,565 --> 00:16:02,874
on the phone sucks, right?

507
00:16:02,874 --> 00:16:03,964
We don't wanna talk to anybody.

508
00:16:04,294 --> 00:16:05,575
We don't wanna fix the problem.

509
00:16:05,575 --> 00:16:07,374
We never wanted to have the
problem in the first place, so

510
00:16:07,374 --> 00:16:10,674
the faster you remove whatever
my issue is, whatever way that

511
00:16:10,674 --> 00:16:13,045
you need to do that, is the
best outcome for me as the user.

512
00:16:13,264 --> 00:16:17,964
Y- My 45-minute calls to Dell
customer support- Oh my God

513
00:16:17,964 --> 00:16:20,295
never ended in- You remember
the days ... man, I hope

514
00:16:20,295 --> 00:16:21,345
this doesn't go away.

515
00:16:21,514 --> 00:16:21,575
Oh.

516
00:16:21,575 --> 00:16:21,825
Right?

517
00:16:22,115 --> 00:16:25,374
My 45- Yeah ... minute wait
on the IRS queue- Yeah ... to

518
00:16:25,374 --> 00:16:27,455
be able to get some stupid
piece of information

519
00:16:27,455 --> 00:16:28,264
that I needed, right?

520
00:16:28,264 --> 00:16:28,365
Yep.

521
00:16:28,415 --> 00:16:31,075
I was never like, "Man, I hope
they don't speed this up." Yeah.

522
00:16:31,325 --> 00:16:31,505
Boy, I

523
00:16:31,505 --> 00:16:31,744
hope

524
00:16:31,814 --> 00:16:33,084
Bob answers the call again.

525
00:16:33,084 --> 00:16:33,145
Yeah.

526
00:16:33,145 --> 00:16:34,365
It's really nice talking to him.

527
00:16:35,395 --> 00:16:38,084
The state of the union is so
incredibly bad that, like, a-

528
00:16:38,084 --> 00:16:39,014
anything is an improvement.

529
00:16:39,064 --> 00:16:42,085
But the reason I'm bringing
this one up is because those

530
00:16:42,085 --> 00:16:46,064
were absolute givens that what
we were gonna staff for, right?

531
00:16:46,064 --> 00:16:46,274
Yeah.

532
00:16:46,325 --> 00:16:48,395
We have more customers, we
have more support, one for one.

533
00:16:48,395 --> 00:16:48,505
Yep.

534
00:16:48,895 --> 00:16:51,214
The other great thing about
that, about that mechanism,

535
00:16:51,575 --> 00:16:54,064
was that it was an on-ramp for
an awful lot of people, right?

536
00:16:54,064 --> 00:16:54,145
Yeah.

537
00:16:54,145 --> 00:16:55,695
There was an awful lot of
people that maybe didn't...

538
00:16:55,884 --> 00:16:57,604
They weren't a developer,
they weren't a designer or

539
00:16:57,604 --> 00:17:00,664
whatever, but they could show
up at a startup, get work right

540
00:17:00,664 --> 00:17:02,625
away- Yeah ... just because
they were smart enough and

541
00:17:02,664 --> 00:17:03,625
they were cool enough, right?

542
00:17:03,625 --> 00:17:03,875
You know?

543
00:17:03,875 --> 00:17:04,125
Yep.

544
00:17:04,125 --> 00:17:05,274
They, they could
answer questions.

545
00:17:05,615 --> 00:17:05,994
They could, yep.

546
00:17:05,994 --> 00:17:06,494
Ton of value to that, by

547
00:17:06,494 --> 00:17:06,674
the way.

548
00:17:06,795 --> 00:17:07,805
They could check the boxes.

549
00:17:07,905 --> 00:17:09,844
There is something to that,
too, which is, like, when we

550
00:17:09,844 --> 00:17:12,814
look back at, like, startup
hiring as a whole, it is

551
00:17:12,814 --> 00:17:14,445
very, very interesting, right?

552
00:17:14,445 --> 00:17:16,674
In the sense that there were
definitely people that got

553
00:17:16,674 --> 00:17:18,475
shots that they otherwise
wouldn't have gotten, and

554
00:17:18,475 --> 00:17:19,774
that grew well outside that.

555
00:17:20,094 --> 00:17:21,865
But there's also, like,
the, the kind of the dirtier

556
00:17:21,865 --> 00:17:24,774
secret side of it, which is
that a lot of early-stage

557
00:17:24,774 --> 00:17:26,594
employees aren't great.

558
00:17:26,755 --> 00:17:26,844
Yeah.

559
00:17:27,265 --> 00:17:27,484
Right?

560
00:17:27,484 --> 00:17:28,344
That's not why they got hired.

561
00:17:28,344 --> 00:17:28,564
For the long game.

562
00:17:28,564 --> 00:17:29,825
They got hired because
they were available.

563
00:17:30,344 --> 00:17:33,015
AI's not out there just
replacing A players

564
00:17:33,015 --> 00:17:34,064
left and right, right?

565
00:17:34,064 --> 00:17:35,685
It's, it's replacing-
That's actually my

566
00:17:35,685 --> 00:17:35,994
point.

567
00:17:36,075 --> 00:17:36,134
Yeah.

568
00:17:36,645 --> 00:17:38,725
I, I'm saying for an awful
lot of people that, that were

569
00:17:38,725 --> 00:17:41,454
C+ players- Yep ... there
was always a home for them-

570
00:17:41,454 --> 00:17:43,545
Yep ... because there was
always work that the A+

571
00:17:43,585 --> 00:17:44,234
players didn't wanna do.

572
00:17:44,234 --> 00:17:44,564
The minor

573
00:17:44,564 --> 00:17:44,895
minor

574
00:17:44,895 --> 00:17:45,434
leagues.

575
00:17:45,585 --> 00:17:45,745
Yeah.

576
00:17:45,745 --> 00:17:45,844
Yeah.

577
00:17:45,844 --> 00:17:46,284
Pretty much.

578
00:17:46,284 --> 00:17:48,215
And, and- Yeah ... I look
at that, and again, I wanna

579
00:17:48,215 --> 00:17:50,784
point out, I look at that and
going, "Damn, that's a problem

580
00:17:50,784 --> 00:17:51,635
for an awful lot of people."

581
00:17:51,764 --> 00:17:55,245
You know, I, I, I have- Yeah
... friends that are in that space,

582
00:17:55,284 --> 00:17:57,484
you know, that, that are kind
of like at risk at that level,

583
00:17:57,865 --> 00:17:59,934
and I'm like, "I have no
idea what they're gonna do."

584
00:17:59,965 --> 00:18:01,284
And again, that concerns me.

585
00:18:01,314 --> 00:18:03,094
This is, again, this is-
Yeah ... this is a very

586
00:18:03,094 --> 00:18:06,105
nuanced discussion because
on the one hand we're saying,

587
00:18:06,105 --> 00:18:07,984
"Holy shit, this is gonna
be incredible, like, we're

588
00:18:07,984 --> 00:18:09,904
gonna enable so many people."

589
00:18:10,314 --> 00:18:12,824
I'm like, and this is the
nature of AI, at the expense

590
00:18:12,824 --> 00:18:13,745
of an awful lot of people.

591
00:18:14,044 --> 00:18:16,505
I think I'm still, and maybe
I'm wearing super thick

592
00:18:16,505 --> 00:18:19,034
rose-colored glasses right
now, but I think I'm trying to

593
00:18:19,034 --> 00:18:22,475
take the view that we said the
same thing when the internet

594
00:18:22,475 --> 00:18:25,594
happened, and e-commerce
happened, and, and, and.

595
00:18:26,299 --> 00:18:28,319
That, a- and yes, it did.

596
00:18:28,319 --> 00:18:29,819
There was, there was
plenty of disruption.

597
00:18:30,269 --> 00:18:33,849
It wasn't at the scale that
anybody expected it to be.

598
00:18:34,250 --> 00:18:36,959
It didn't create, you
know, mass pandemonium.

599
00:18:37,030 --> 00:18:37,959
There w- definitely
was some upset.

600
00:18:37,959 --> 00:18:39,419
I'm not saying people
didn't get hurt, people did.

601
00:18:39,719 --> 00:18:42,650
But then we recovered, and
we grew well beyond where

602
00:18:42,650 --> 00:18:43,830
we were at that point.

603
00:18:44,010 --> 00:18:45,820
I'm still hopeful that
this does the same thing.

604
00:18:45,820 --> 00:18:50,410
Now, do I think there's a
higher likelihood and a better

605
00:18:50,410 --> 00:18:54,090
chance, more opportunity for
there to be harm and damage

606
00:18:54,090 --> 00:18:56,549
done just in terms of, like,
humans not having jobs?

607
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:59,230
Yes, because that's literally
what this is aimed at doing.

608
00:18:59,259 --> 00:18:59,759
No doubt.

609
00:18:59,959 --> 00:19:02,889
But o- on the other hand,
like most things, it's

610
00:19:02,889 --> 00:19:03,989
gonna create new problems.

611
00:19:04,369 --> 00:19:05,450
Who solves problems?

612
00:19:05,959 --> 00:19:08,090
People solve problems, startups
solve problems, and so it's

613
00:19:08,090 --> 00:19:10,329
gonna create this entire new
ecosystem that we're gonna

614
00:19:10,329 --> 00:19:11,369
have to go figure out, right?

615
00:19:11,369 --> 00:19:12,509
If no one has income,
what do we do?

616
00:19:12,509 --> 00:19:13,720
Well, we gotta
solve that, right?

617
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,989
Otherwise, the people who
replace all the jobs with

618
00:19:15,989 --> 00:19:18,639
AI have no economy to
sell to anyways, right?

619
00:19:18,639 --> 00:19:21,489
So it, it can only go so
far before it breaks itself.

620
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:22,509
You know, something

621
00:19:22,509 --> 00:19:22,709
that's

622
00:19:22,709 --> 00:19:23,090
really

623
00:19:23,090 --> 00:19:26,130
funny about everything
we talk about here is

624
00:19:26,130 --> 00:19:27,950
that none of it is new.

625
00:19:28,130 --> 00:19:30,600
Everything you're dealing
with right now has been done a

626
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,539
thousand times before you, which
means the answer already exists.

627
00:19:34,539 --> 00:19:36,390
You may just not know
it, but that's okay.

628
00:19:36,810 --> 00:19:38,509
That's kind of what
we're here to do.

629
00:19:38,509 --> 00:19:41,210
We talk about this stuff on
the show, but we actually

630
00:19:41,210 --> 00:19:45,469
solve these problems all day
long at groups.startups.com.

631
00:19:45,469 --> 00:19:48,770
So if any of this sounds
familiar, stop guessing

632
00:19:48,770 --> 00:19:49,759
about what to do.

633
00:19:50,039 --> 00:19:53,549
Let us just give you the answers
to the test and be done with it.

634
00:19:53,549 --> 00:19:54,390
Yeah, 100%.

635
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:56,899
Uh, i- it'll create as much
demand as it will supply.

636
00:19:57,009 --> 00:19:57,840
I do believe that.

637
00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,549
But, but damn, it's,
it's gnarly right now.

638
00:19:59,829 --> 00:20:03,359
But going back to our point
of this solo founder forever.

639
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:03,689
Yeah.

640
00:20:03,980 --> 00:20:05,829
The reason we're talking
about this stuff, about, you

641
00:20:05,829 --> 00:20:08,189
know, how it's get, about to
get geometrically worse or

642
00:20:08,189 --> 00:20:10,799
better depending on how you
look at it, is this is the

643
00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:14,700
first time in history that
not hiring for any of these

644
00:20:14,700 --> 00:20:17,899
roles, support, developer,
whatever, was even an option.

645
00:20:17,929 --> 00:20:17,990
Yeah.

646
00:20:18,429 --> 00:20:22,590
And what I'm saying is the
rate that the technology is

647
00:20:22,590 --> 00:20:25,710
improving, it gets to the
point where, like, I can't

648
00:20:25,710 --> 00:20:30,369
fathom in a year or two
why you would hire a small

649
00:20:30,369 --> 00:20:32,350
business accountant, right?

650
00:20:32,350 --> 00:20:32,509
Yeah.

651
00:20:33,020 --> 00:20:35,700
Given the fact that, uh,
accounting, and I've been

652
00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:38,239
a, a CFO for 25 years, so
I understand a little about

653
00:20:38,239 --> 00:20:40,119
it, but I'm by no means
teaching courses on it.

654
00:20:40,550 --> 00:20:43,250
But accounting is really comes
down to I have raw transactions,

655
00:20:43,250 --> 00:20:45,230
they're sitting in, in my
bank account or credit card

656
00:20:45,230 --> 00:20:48,679
statements or whatever, invoice
system, and I have some corpus

657
00:20:48,679 --> 00:20:50,959
of knowledge that understands-
Mm-hmm ... how to process

658
00:20:51,220 --> 00:20:52,440
raw transactions, right?

659
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:52,569
Yeah.

660
00:20:52,569 --> 00:20:54,789
And turn them into pro
forma income statements

661
00:20:54,789 --> 00:20:56,179
or tax statements or
anything like that.

662
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,519
The corpus of knowledge
is well documented, right?

663
00:20:59,550 --> 00:20:59,849
Yes.

664
00:20:59,849 --> 00:21:00,929
There's, there's nothing
new there, right?

665
00:21:00,929 --> 00:21:02,269
Like, how numbers...

666
00:21:02,349 --> 00:21:05,080
It's literally a
named standard, right?

667
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:05,250
Kind

668
00:21:05,369 --> 00:21:06,039
of figured that one out.

669
00:21:06,550 --> 00:21:09,470
And how to process yours
isn't that complex.

670
00:21:09,470 --> 00:21:10,789
It's complex to you
'cause you don't know it.

671
00:21:10,819 --> 00:21:11,769
I, I went through this process.

672
00:21:12,250 --> 00:21:15,970
My point is that's a
giant, like, bucket that

673
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,069
everyone's subscribed to.

674
00:21:17,069 --> 00:21:17,179
Yep.

675
00:21:17,459 --> 00:21:19,840
Like, even if you didn't hire
your own developer, you had

676
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,789
somebody giving you counsel on
accounting 'cause, 'cause it's

677
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:24,289
something- Yeah ... you didn't
know and you needed help with.

678
00:21:25,105 --> 00:21:28,824
Yep ... or payroll, or
legal, or like, there was a

679
00:21:28,824 --> 00:21:32,235
lot of places where it was
a given that you were gonna

680
00:21:32,235 --> 00:21:35,904
talk to a human, employ that
person on a contract- Yeah

681
00:21:35,904 --> 00:21:39,095
or one-off basis, and that's
where your money was gonna go.

682
00:21:39,125 --> 00:21:40,105
And now I'm like, uh-

683
00:21:40,625 --> 00:21:40,895
Yeah.

684
00:21:41,014 --> 00:21:44,725
There were so many of
these industries that were

685
00:21:44,725 --> 00:21:48,854
literally predicated on
knowledge that was gatekept.

686
00:21:48,885 --> 00:21:49,885
Not that it was
unachievable knowledge.

687
00:21:49,885 --> 00:21:52,405
It wasn't that it was
unachievable knowledge.

688
00:21:52,715 --> 00:21:52,805
Yeah.

689
00:21:52,805 --> 00:21:56,564
It just wasn't worth quite
enough to go and learn it rather

690
00:21:56,564 --> 00:21:58,104
than just pay to have it done.

691
00:21:58,104 --> 00:21:58,194
Yep.

692
00:21:58,264 --> 00:22:00,784
Well, that just got
flipped on its head.

693
00:22:01,064 --> 00:22:01,665
It's crazy.

694
00:22:01,665 --> 00:22:04,845
And so we could probably
agree, if it's 2026 now,

695
00:22:05,125 --> 00:22:06,955
that... And now I'm going
way into the future,

696
00:22:06,955 --> 00:22:07,895
like four years from now.

697
00:22:08,104 --> 00:22:11,814
That by 2030- Whoa ... nearly
every single thing that you

698
00:22:11,814 --> 00:22:14,075
would've paid somebody to
do right now mechanically,

699
00:22:14,424 --> 00:22:16,334
there will be- Yeah ... an
AI equivalent that is,

700
00:22:16,544 --> 00:22:18,825
is as good, and, and,
and I'm gonna use as...

701
00:22:18,825 --> 00:22:20,174
We'll come back to
as good in a second.

702
00:22:20,665 --> 00:22:21,965
But in many cases, better.

703
00:22:22,395 --> 00:22:23,625
I'll go to the
customer support thing.

704
00:22:23,674 --> 00:22:23,735
Yeah.

705
00:22:23,784 --> 00:22:24,834
This isn't a quality thing.

706
00:22:25,115 --> 00:22:28,425
This AI customer support is
available 24/7, seven days a

707
00:22:28,425 --> 00:22:32,485
week, and can process 1,000
people simultaneously, right?

708
00:22:32,525 --> 00:22:32,605
Yeah.

709
00:22:32,934 --> 00:22:35,574
There's no human equivalent
that could possibly do that.

710
00:22:35,605 --> 00:22:35,944
Right.

711
00:22:36,455 --> 00:22:39,055
It knows every single
thing that has ever been

712
00:22:39,055 --> 00:22:40,065
said to your company.

713
00:22:40,095 --> 00:22:41,555
It knows every single outcome.

714
00:22:41,555 --> 00:22:41,775
Period.

715
00:22:41,775 --> 00:22:43,004
It knows every single product.

716
00:22:43,035 --> 00:22:45,785
It can run decisioning
rules perfectly every single

717
00:22:45,785 --> 00:22:47,714
time, like no call center
on the planet could do.

718
00:22:48,264 --> 00:22:50,955
And there will be no better
human version of that, right?

719
00:22:50,955 --> 00:22:51,485
It sucks.

720
00:22:51,565 --> 00:22:52,845
Uh, again, this isn't me saying-

721
00:22:53,154 --> 00:22:53,644
Yeah ... yay.

722
00:22:53,644 --> 00:22:53,985
I'm saying

723
00:22:54,035 --> 00:22:54,364
shit.

724
00:22:55,084 --> 00:22:56,434
But it's, it's kind
of unavoidable.

725
00:22:56,434 --> 00:22:59,294
And the thing is, by the
time somebody uses it as a

726
00:22:59,294 --> 00:23:01,294
competitive advantage, everybody
else has to start to use it.

727
00:23:01,294 --> 00:23:03,925
It becomes a hygiene factor-
100% ... really, really

728
00:23:03,925 --> 00:23:05,555
quickly, so you don't
really have the choice.

729
00:23:05,555 --> 00:23:07,074
And so like, even if
you're like, "Nope, we're

730
00:23:07,074 --> 00:23:08,114
gonna stick with humans.

731
00:23:08,114 --> 00:23:10,444
We're gonna stick with humans
for a while." J- I was just

732
00:23:10,444 --> 00:23:13,065
picturing somebody pitching
an investor in, in this, in

733
00:23:13,065 --> 00:23:16,035
your future of 2030 and saying
like, "And we're aiming for

734
00:23:16,035 --> 00:23:18,175
12 employees." They're gonna
look at you like you just

735
00:23:18,175 --> 00:23:20,495
said, "And we're gonna try
to get 12 horses," right?

736
00:23:20,495 --> 00:23:21,025
Like what- Right.

737
00:23:21,025 --> 00:23:22,514
... the fuck are you talking about?

738
00:23:22,894 --> 00:23:27,584
So we get into this new world
where we look at hiring a person

739
00:23:27,834 --> 00:23:30,285
in the not too distant future,
and even a little bit now- Yeah

740
00:23:30,665 --> 00:23:32,425
... as a can versus I should.

741
00:23:32,425 --> 00:23:32,494
Uh-huh.

742
00:23:32,895 --> 00:23:34,184
I could hire this person.

743
00:23:34,184 --> 00:23:35,574
Let's say, like money
wasn't the issue, and

744
00:23:35,574 --> 00:23:37,255
it's always the issue, but
let's pretend it wasn't.

745
00:23:37,735 --> 00:23:41,445
Will they add more than
I could get with a tool

746
00:23:41,445 --> 00:23:42,535
that does the same thing?

747
00:23:42,625 --> 00:23:43,774
Now, obviously it depends
on- Yeah ... on what

748
00:23:43,774 --> 00:23:44,804
the role is, right?

749
00:23:45,604 --> 00:23:48,255
But it brings us to the next
point of this discussion,

750
00:23:48,395 --> 00:23:51,785
which would be where is
human value intrinsic?

751
00:23:52,264 --> 00:23:54,304
You know- Yeah ... what are
the things that startups

752
00:23:54,304 --> 00:23:56,005
will reengage with humans?

753
00:23:56,085 --> 00:23:58,175
I sound so... I feel like E-
Elon Musk talking about, "We're

754
00:23:58,175 --> 00:23:59,074
engaging with humans," right?

755
00:23:59,375 --> 00:24:00,815
Um, will reengage with humans.

756
00:24:01,264 --> 00:24:03,274
I'm interfacing
with flesh again.

757
00:24:05,904 --> 00:24:07,155
Here's what I would
say at a high level.

758
00:24:07,455 --> 00:24:09,034
There are certain things
that are fundamentally

759
00:24:09,034 --> 00:24:11,525
human that we as humans
are particularly good at.

760
00:24:11,784 --> 00:24:11,985
Yeah.

761
00:24:12,025 --> 00:24:14,665
Communication, leadership,
creativity, innovation,

762
00:24:14,694 --> 00:24:15,425
et cetera, right?

763
00:24:15,425 --> 00:24:16,984
These are things that are,
uh, fundamentally and,

764
00:24:17,194 --> 00:24:18,055
and authentically human.

765
00:24:18,564 --> 00:24:22,405
And I think when you get more
people in the room that can kind

766
00:24:22,405 --> 00:24:26,295
of use the tool- But use those
capabilities with the tool.

767
00:24:26,325 --> 00:24:26,535
Yeah.

768
00:24:26,684 --> 00:24:29,945
You wanna have the humans, you
know, with those tools versus l-

769
00:24:30,065 --> 00:24:31,644
you know, letting AI run amok.

770
00:24:32,095 --> 00:24:32,935
Uh, where do you see it?

771
00:24:33,114 --> 00:24:35,215
I think that there's
all those little micro

772
00:24:35,215 --> 00:24:36,185
interactions, right?

773
00:24:36,185 --> 00:24:39,074
The, the micro decisions, the
discussions, the arguments.

774
00:24:39,524 --> 00:24:42,035
I'm a different person with
other people in the room, right?

775
00:24:42,154 --> 00:24:44,484
It brings out skillsets
and capabilities that I

776
00:24:44,484 --> 00:24:46,125
don't have when I'm just
sitting around by myself.

777
00:24:46,125 --> 00:24:48,154
There's a whole lot of
things that don't manifest.

778
00:24:48,554 --> 00:24:50,544
But I think that, like, at,
just even at the, the most

779
00:24:50,544 --> 00:24:55,324
basic level, a solo founder
plus an AI doesn't get any of

780
00:24:55,324 --> 00:24:56,985
that other voice introduced.

781
00:24:57,105 --> 00:24:58,645
It... There's no
micro decisions.

782
00:24:58,645 --> 00:24:59,634
There's no pushback.

783
00:25:00,055 --> 00:25:03,855
You get the decision maker
and a yes machine, right?

784
00:25:03,884 --> 00:25:03,965
Yeah.

785
00:25:03,965 --> 00:25:06,064
Uh, uh, which, look, I'm, I'm
sure at some point they will,

786
00:25:06,064 --> 00:25:09,715
they will help to fix that
within AI, and I think some

787
00:25:09,715 --> 00:25:13,204
people are worried that, you
know, AI won't be as, as clever

788
00:25:13,204 --> 00:25:15,114
as a human, or won't be as
attentive as a human, or won't

789
00:25:15,114 --> 00:25:16,415
be as, as aware as a human.

790
00:25:17,015 --> 00:25:18,835
That's not the risk
that I see, right?

791
00:25:18,835 --> 00:25:19,075
Yeah.

792
00:25:19,075 --> 00:25:21,415
I, I don't think that the
risk is that AI is wrong.

793
00:25:21,864 --> 00:25:23,985
I think the risk is
actually that AI is just

794
00:25:23,985 --> 00:25:25,585
super agreeable, right?

795
00:25:26,004 --> 00:25:29,004
A team disagrees with you,
and that's actually the

796
00:25:29,004 --> 00:25:30,404
feature of the team, right?

797
00:25:30,404 --> 00:25:30,544
Yeah, right.

798
00:25:30,544 --> 00:25:32,364
That's, a big part of it
is having that pushback

799
00:25:32,684 --> 00:25:34,644
to kinda metal test the,
the, the stuff that you're

800
00:25:34,644 --> 00:25:35,555
thinking through, right?

801
00:25:35,745 --> 00:25:36,674
Let me build on that, Ryan.

802
00:25:36,765 --> 00:25:36,824
Yeah.

803
00:25:36,995 --> 00:25:39,934
So pushback and disagree would
be one of them, but the other

804
00:25:39,934 --> 00:25:41,635
part of it is just refine.

805
00:25:42,055 --> 00:25:43,815
So it's not like, "Hey, I don't
agree with what you're saying."

806
00:25:43,964 --> 00:25:45,214
"Hey, that's a really cool idea.

807
00:25:45,424 --> 00:25:46,864
What if we also did this,
this, and this?" I'm using

808
00:25:46,864 --> 00:25:47,495
disagree in that- Right?

809
00:25:47,495 --> 00:25:47,765
No, I know.

810
00:25:47,765 --> 00:25:48,224
I know ... in that
same way, right?

811
00:25:48,224 --> 00:25:50,354
Which is like more so just
like, yeah, the refinement,

812
00:25:50,354 --> 00:25:53,324
the inputs that w- don't
come from an AI, right?

813
00:25:53,485 --> 00:25:55,724
Whenever we go down this path,
whenever we talk about, like,

814
00:25:55,754 --> 00:25:58,034
you know, w- where that human
intuition and everything is,

815
00:25:58,034 --> 00:26:00,765
is more valuable, there is a
part of me in the back of my

816
00:26:00,765 --> 00:26:02,955
mind that's being like, "Nah,
that's an algorithm," right?

817
00:26:02,955 --> 00:26:03,614
Like, I'm like- Yeah.

818
00:26:03,614 --> 00:26:05,415
And, and again, I, again, I
turn into, like, Elon Musk

819
00:26:05,415 --> 00:26:05,894
all of a sudden, right?

820
00:26:06,214 --> 00:26:08,684
But, like- ... I look at
that and I think to myself,

821
00:26:09,015 --> 00:26:11,784
"I get it. I understand that
I can run an algorithm that

822
00:26:11,784 --> 00:26:14,525
replicates what Will might
say, but it just still isn't

823
00:26:14,525 --> 00:26:16,534
Will." And again, I know this
is the, the, the fundamental

824
00:26:16,534 --> 00:26:18,794
question of humanity in, in AI.

825
00:26:18,904 --> 00:26:19,104
Yeah.

826
00:26:19,565 --> 00:26:22,824
But when it comes to building
a startup, I get the sense that

827
00:26:22,824 --> 00:26:26,375
the solo f- founder will feel
like they're missing something.

828
00:26:26,885 --> 00:26:30,055
There's just, one, it's lonely
as hell to do this, right?

829
00:26:30,055 --> 00:26:30,315
Yeah.

830
00:26:30,945 --> 00:26:33,555
But I also think, like,
here, actually, you know,

831
00:26:34,144 --> 00:26:35,644
never really thought
about this until just now.

832
00:26:36,014 --> 00:26:39,215
All day long, I have exactly
two screens on my monitor.

833
00:26:39,704 --> 00:26:40,754
On the left I have Claude.

834
00:26:40,784 --> 00:26:40,844
Yeah.

835
00:26:41,195 --> 00:26:42,704
On the right I
have Slack, right?

836
00:26:42,704 --> 00:26:42,885
Yeah.

837
00:26:43,369 --> 00:26:44,290
computer, human.

838
00:26:44,660 --> 00:26:45,800
And they're both prompts, right?

839
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,780
They're both literally
text boxes that I type

840
00:26:47,780 --> 00:26:49,120
into to get answers.

841
00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:51,350
I'm not, you know, trying to
dumb our conversations between

842
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:54,110
us, uh- Yep ... down, but,
like, just the form factor-

843
00:26:54,110 --> 00:26:54,730
They're both text inputs

844
00:26:54,730 --> 00:26:55,310
looks awfully identical.

845
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:55,860
Yep Right?

846
00:26:55,860 --> 00:26:58,119
Your, your, your, your
command line in both case.

847
00:26:58,239 --> 00:26:58,409
Yeah.

848
00:26:59,150 --> 00:27:00,019
Exactly.

849
00:27:00,410 --> 00:27:02,679
But l- let me stick with that,
'cause again, I, I... until

850
00:27:02,679 --> 00:27:04,759
I just said it, it didn't
really occur to me, like, how

851
00:27:05,019 --> 00:27:06,379
parallel those universes are.

852
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,560
When I talk to Claude, and I'm
building software, and I'm doing

853
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:10,599
all that's good stuff, right?

854
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:13,490
I know Claude is gonna come back
to me with domain knowledge,

855
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,290
but not really an opinion.

856
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:17,820
Now, it may come back with a
recommendation- Yeah ... right?

857
00:27:17,820 --> 00:27:19,969
Like, "Hey- Right ... the
structure should be tailwind

858
00:27:19,969 --> 00:27:21,959
versus something else."
Okay, sure, whatever, right?

859
00:27:21,959 --> 00:27:22,820
You probably know
better than I do.

860
00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:25,590
But it's not gonna come
back and saying, "This would

861
00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:27,390
look way cooler," right?

862
00:27:27,450 --> 00:27:27,509
Yeah.

863
00:27:27,709 --> 00:27:28,509
Now, it could.

864
00:27:28,509 --> 00:27:29,410
It'd be making that up.

865
00:27:29,410 --> 00:27:30,239
It'd be, you know, whatever.

866
00:27:30,809 --> 00:27:33,160
But when I talk to you or I
talk to our creative director,

867
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,259
I talk to our CTO, whatever,
and they have that response,

868
00:27:36,259 --> 00:27:38,910
like, "Oh, damn, that would be
really sweet," I know it's true.

869
00:27:39,700 --> 00:27:39,840
Yeah.

870
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:40,360
Does that make sense?

871
00:27:40,599 --> 00:27:41,059
It does.

872
00:27:41,059 --> 00:27:43,540
Uh, like, even, uh, think
about little pieces of feedback

873
00:27:43,540 --> 00:27:45,489
like, I'm gonna go to the
negative side of feedback,

874
00:27:45,489 --> 00:27:47,270
where it was like, "Yeah,
there's something a little off.

875
00:27:47,270 --> 00:27:48,920
I'm not exactly sure
what it is," right?

876
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,749
That's exactly the kind
of thing, where it's like

877
00:27:50,749 --> 00:27:51,999
there's an intuition there.

878
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,869
There's a feeling that AI's
never gonna be able to catch.

879
00:27:56,030 --> 00:27:58,149
I can go back to moments in
time where, like, those little

880
00:27:58,149 --> 00:28:00,840
feelings were like, "Ah,
something feels off," or, "Hmm,

881
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,859
you know, I don't like that and
I don't, can't really, you know,

882
00:28:02,859 --> 00:28:05,679
tell you why now, but I'm gonna
keep thinking about it and we'll

883
00:28:05,679 --> 00:28:06,710
eventually come up with it."

884
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:08,149
Those, those moments
are really important.

885
00:28:08,450 --> 00:28:10,259
Let's build on that, because
I, again, I think that's the

886
00:28:10,259 --> 00:28:11,090
core of what we're saying.

887
00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:13,810
Let's back up and say if
you were a purist on the AI

888
00:28:13,810 --> 00:28:16,270
side, you would say- Yeah
... humans are an algorithm.

889
00:28:16,270 --> 00:28:18,460
Humans are fundamentally a
computer that, that, uh, are

890
00:28:18,530 --> 00:28:20,450
pre-programmed with memories
and everything else like that.

891
00:28:20,509 --> 00:28:20,700
Yep.

892
00:28:20,700 --> 00:28:21,780
A- and they're
running the algorithm.

893
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,289
Which is true, and it's
called personality.

894
00:28:23,649 --> 00:28:23,710
Yeah.

895
00:28:23,710 --> 00:28:23,840
Right?

896
00:28:24,030 --> 00:28:26,280
If it can be computed, it
will be computed, and it

897
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:27,189
will be replicated, right?

898
00:28:27,189 --> 00:28:29,079
That there is cyber
Will, there's cyber Ryan,

899
00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:29,859
and that will exist.

900
00:28:29,859 --> 00:28:32,009
And I- Right ... 100%
believe that, right?

901
00:28:32,009 --> 00:28:32,969
I, I actually do believe that.

902
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,719
However, without going, like,
too Terminator on this, I do

903
00:28:36,719 --> 00:28:40,009
think there, there's a human
side that, number one, and

904
00:28:40,009 --> 00:28:42,969
this is important, that we are
all going to gravitate toward

905
00:28:43,219 --> 00:28:47,050
in the same way we're feeling
this right now with work from

906
00:28:47,050 --> 00:28:49,240
home, uh, having displaced-
Yep ... the interactions

907
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:49,990
you were having at work.

908
00:28:50,179 --> 00:28:50,810
I don't ever- Yeah

909
00:28:50,810 --> 00:28:53,589
wanna go into the office again,
but I really miss my friends.

910
00:28:53,859 --> 00:28:53,949
You

911
00:28:53,949 --> 00:28:54,449
know what's funny?

912
00:28:54,449 --> 00:28:56,059
Just for two seconds.

913
00:28:56,109 --> 00:28:56,309
Yeah.

914
00:28:56,469 --> 00:28:59,389
I just read something
today that said- is the

915
00:28:59,389 --> 00:29:01,200
work from home era over?

916
00:29:01,349 --> 00:29:01,589
Yeah.

917
00:29:01,619 --> 00:29:04,600
And I was thinking, do they
just mean is work over?

918
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,339
Because who the hell is
going back to an office if

919
00:29:07,339 --> 00:29:08,520
they're letting everyone go?

920
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,640
Like, what office are you going
back to or with, with which job?

921
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,430
I was like, did I accidentally
hit somebody's archive

922
00:29:14,430 --> 00:29:15,280
from eight years ago?

923
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:15,999
Like, what is this?

924
00:29:16,370 --> 00:29:18,550
I just couldn't believe that
was somebody's question today.

925
00:29:18,589 --> 00:29:20,339
Like, that, yes, uh, sure, fine.

926
00:29:20,399 --> 00:29:22,749
And I'm sure there's places
where it does, but I think

927
00:29:22,829 --> 00:29:24,030
it touches on a core point.

928
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,669
I think as we strip away
our humanity, we feel empty.

929
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,710
I've yet to hear anybody
say- Yeah ... Tinder is so

930
00:29:30,710 --> 00:29:32,919
much better because I don't
have to talk to people.

931
00:29:33,100 --> 00:29:33,559
You know what I'm saying?

932
00:29:33,559 --> 00:29:35,539
Like, like you have to talk
through messages or whatever.

933
00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:35,629
Yeah.

934
00:29:36,030 --> 00:29:38,309
Everyone always says the same
thing, whether it's Tinder

935
00:29:38,309 --> 00:29:41,460
or Zoom or, like, whatever
technology abstract- social

936
00:29:41,460 --> 00:29:43,039
media that abstracts us- Yeah

937
00:29:43,070 --> 00:29:43,699
from humans.

938
00:29:43,969 --> 00:29:46,300
It always starts with the same
premise, which is you're gonna

939
00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:49,519
have so much more access to
a potential mate or to social

940
00:29:49,519 --> 00:29:51,500
media- Yeah ... you know, to
news, whatever, and it always

941
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,199
ends the same, which is you're-
Yeah ... lonely and depressed.

942
00:29:54,260 --> 00:29:55,120
More isolation.

943
00:29:55,329 --> 00:29:55,609
Yeah, yeah.

944
00:29:55,609 --> 00:29:55,859
Right.

945
00:29:56,169 --> 00:29:58,250
A- a- and I think- Yeah
... that's the human condition.

946
00:29:58,660 --> 00:30:00,850
I think that, you know,
if we look at a generation

947
00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:04,170
coming up to the workforce
now that are 20 to 30, and

948
00:30:04,170 --> 00:30:05,620
there's this general malaise.

949
00:30:05,620 --> 00:30:07,480
Now, it's been exacerbated
because they've taken the

950
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,370
humanity out of every aspect of
their lives- Yeah ... you know,

951
00:30:10,399 --> 00:30:10,840
through social

952
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:11,810
media and everything else like

953
00:30:11,810 --> 00:30:11,980
that.

954
00:30:12,380 --> 00:30:13,730
So fast-forward 10 years.

955
00:30:13,730 --> 00:30:15,829
Does it become a thing whereas
like, "Who's that behind

956
00:30:15,829 --> 00:30:17,889
you on the, in the camera?"
He's like, "Oh, that's Bob."

957
00:30:18,179 --> 00:30:20,740
"Oh, what's Bob do there?"
"He's our person." Yeah.

958
00:30:21,609 --> 00:30:22,539
He's like a dog.

959
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,310
We just have him around 'cause
he makes us feel better, right?

960
00:30:25,310 --> 00:30:25,440
Yeah.

961
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:27,800
I notice when he's around
my heart rate goes down.

962
00:30:27,859 --> 00:30:30,620
You know, it's like all the
things that a pet does for you.

963
00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:33,420
Where like at some point, like
how many years out is hiring

964
00:30:33,420 --> 00:30:35,510
an employee- My emotional
support human ... yeah, my

965
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:36,300
emotional support human.

966
00:30:36,649 --> 00:30:38,550
But when does it become
a status symbol, right?

967
00:30:38,550 --> 00:30:41,690
Like buying a mechanical watch,
uh, an expensive mechanical

968
00:30:41,690 --> 00:30:43,819
watch when you know your
phone can tell time better.

969
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,859
When does an employee become
the status symbol thing?

970
00:30:45,859 --> 00:30:48,319
They're like, "Yeah, we hired a,
we hired a, a, a, a- I think, so

971
00:30:48,319 --> 00:30:49,730
this is, this a little
off track, but I

972
00:30:49,730 --> 00:30:50,760
think it, uh, ties in.

973
00:30:51,090 --> 00:30:53,480
I genuinely believe that over
the next few years, and you're

974
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,109
already starting to see it,
organic, meaning human, will

975
00:30:57,109 --> 00:30:57,849
be- Yeah ... a luxury item.

976
00:30:58,190 --> 00:31:00,170
And I think in the same way
that you have a concierge

977
00:31:00,170 --> 00:31:02,200
at a hotel that, like, you
know, like, makes you feel

978
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,760
welcome, I think- Yeah

979
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,039
people will reintroduce
and repromote.

980
00:31:06,069 --> 00:31:07,780
We're doing it now by the
way- 100% ... at startups.com.

981
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,890
Stay at Hilton, now featuring
human-answered telephones.

982
00:31:11,929 --> 00:31:12,830
No, I'm telling you, man.

983
00:31:12,830 --> 00:31:14,519
They're like, "Hello." I
think we're gonna see it.

984
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,950
I think you're gonna see a
massive swing at an emotional

985
00:31:17,950 --> 00:31:22,019
level of people going back to,
"This is all bullshit, man."

986
00:31:22,019 --> 00:31:23,170
Like, I can say this now.

987
00:31:23,289 --> 00:31:27,549
I will spend, not today, but on
a given day, 14 hours straight

988
00:31:27,599 --> 00:31:30,510
on some days- Yep ... in
front of my monitor, and thank

989
00:31:30,510 --> 00:31:32,920
God I have a wife and kids
that are in my house, right?

990
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,170
That will, like, like, make me
have human interaction, because

991
00:31:36,170 --> 00:31:39,510
if they were not here, I would
go days without seeing- Yeah

992
00:31:39,510 --> 00:31:40,429
a human, right?

993
00:31:40,429 --> 00:31:40,700
Human.

994
00:31:40,909 --> 00:31:41,090
Yeah.

995
00:31:41,149 --> 00:31:43,189
Like, in a couple hours,
uh, I'm gonna go see

996
00:31:43,189 --> 00:31:43,899
a bunch of my friends.

997
00:31:43,899 --> 00:31:44,769
We've got a founder dinner.

998
00:31:44,769 --> 00:31:46,649
You, you've been to the,
uh, this one before.

999
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:47,189
Nice.

1000
00:31:47,189 --> 00:31:47,670
And they're great folks.

1001
00:31:47,670 --> 00:31:49,549
Actually, it's a bunch of folks
that listen to this show, so

1002
00:31:49,730 --> 00:31:50,390
guys, I'll see you in a minute.

1003
00:31:50,890 --> 00:31:54,450
I have to go to that, and I mean
that in the right way because-

1004
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,559
Like, that is a scheduled
time where I see humans.

1005
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:59,709
How fucking sad is that, right?

1006
00:31:59,709 --> 00:31:59,779
Yeah.

1007
00:31:59,779 --> 00:32:01,830
I mean, like, if you look at-
Yeah ... like the trajectory,

1008
00:32:01,830 --> 00:32:04,839
that used to be my every day,
and now it's a scheduled event.

1009
00:32:05,150 --> 00:32:06,810
I'm telling you, man, this
thing's gonna rubber band.

1010
00:32:06,869 --> 00:32:08,680
It kinda sorta has to, right?

1011
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,649
At some point we do have
to go back- Yeah ... to

1012
00:32:10,649 --> 00:32:11,309
the other direction.

1013
00:32:11,620 --> 00:32:14,460
I mean, just think about
how often we see this, Will.

1014
00:32:14,809 --> 00:32:16,360
Just our little microcosm.

1015
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,530
Think how often we see this,
which is just founders coming

1016
00:32:19,530 --> 00:32:23,639
to us wanting a co-founder, and
when we really dig into why-

1017
00:32:23,829 --> 00:32:27,940
Yep ... it wasn't a technology
need, it wasn't funding, it

1018
00:32:27,940 --> 00:32:32,050
wasn't... It w- they were just
lonely and scared of being

1019
00:32:32,050 --> 00:32:33,570
alone while building this thing.

1020
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:33,929
Oh, yeah.

1021
00:32:33,989 --> 00:32:35,309
They just wanted
another person there.

1022
00:32:35,410 --> 00:32:37,090
I always used to say the
same thing about marriage.

1023
00:32:37,179 --> 00:32:38,750
And, and again, I'm, I'm
not knocking marriage.

1024
00:32:38,750 --> 00:32:40,410
You and I have been married
to our spouses- Yep ... for

1025
00:32:40,410 --> 00:32:42,000
almost the same period
of time, over 15 years.

1026
00:32:42,399 --> 00:32:45,169
I would say that if it wasn't
for loneliness, most marriages

1027
00:32:45,169 --> 00:32:46,559
wouldn't exist, right?

1028
00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:46,649
Yeah.

1029
00:32:46,649 --> 00:32:49,050
Like, the fundamental
of companionship is

1030
00:32:49,140 --> 00:32:50,039
what drives marriage.

1031
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:51,510
And I always think
marriage is hilarious as

1032
00:32:51,510 --> 00:32:53,640
an institution because
there's no version of it.

1033
00:32:53,919 --> 00:32:54,579
There's one version.

1034
00:32:54,699 --> 00:32:54,910
Right.

1035
00:32:54,910 --> 00:32:55,829
You're married, and that's it.

1036
00:32:55,859 --> 00:32:55,919
Yeah.

1037
00:32:55,919 --> 00:32:57,530
There's no, like, lease
to own or, you know,

1038
00:32:57,530 --> 00:32:58,910
a kind of- You can't
correct ... alternate option.

1039
00:32:58,910 --> 00:32:59,090
Yeah.

1040
00:32:59,349 --> 00:32:59,510
Right?

1041
00:32:59,510 --> 00:33:01,069
There's no three-year
contract or something.

1042
00:33:01,069 --> 00:33:02,289
Probably should be,
but there isn't.

1043
00:33:02,459 --> 00:33:05,889
And, and I say that because
we're willing to, to sign up for

1044
00:33:05,889 --> 00:33:09,620
the only contract without much
consideration of, of any other

1045
00:33:09,620 --> 00:33:11,029
option 'cause we're lonely, man.

1046
00:33:11,310 --> 00:33:12,480
We love somebody,
and that's wonderful.

1047
00:33:12,940 --> 00:33:14,560
But I think for a lot of
people, you see people who've

1048
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,660
stayed married for a long
time, you know, they've

1049
00:33:16,660 --> 00:33:18,490
fallen out of love, but
they don't wanna be lonely.

1050
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,319
And I think that's a
strong statement, man.

1051
00:33:20,770 --> 00:33:23,190
I think that this is
fundamentally a lonely

1052
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:25,170
journey even when there's
200 people in the building.

1053
00:33:25,660 --> 00:33:26,450
Now there's no one
in the building.

1054
00:33:26,450 --> 00:33:26,730
That's for sure.

1055
00:33:27,219 --> 00:33:29,260
No, it's, it's
unimaginable, right?

1056
00:33:29,260 --> 00:33:29,329
Yeah.

1057
00:33:29,329 --> 00:33:30,760
A- a- and we're starting
to see s- we're starting

1058
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:31,490
to see some of it already.

1059
00:33:31,490 --> 00:33:33,810
Like, y- you know, there's
people who are out there

1060
00:33:33,810 --> 00:33:35,219
building and building and
building and building and

1061
00:33:35,219 --> 00:33:37,270
building, and their, their
heads are like... To me, the

1062
00:33:37,270 --> 00:33:40,359
pre-seed space has gotten kind
of bizarre all of a sudden.

1063
00:33:40,359 --> 00:33:42,099
Like, it's really quiet.

1064
00:33:42,510 --> 00:33:44,450
Not in the sense that
nobody's doing anything.

1065
00:33:44,450 --> 00:33:46,859
People are doing a lot of
stuff, but there's not much

1066
00:33:46,859 --> 00:33:47,940
noise around it, right?

1067
00:33:47,940 --> 00:33:50,929
The, the s- pre-seed used to
kick up a ton of dust 'cause

1068
00:33:50,929 --> 00:33:53,149
they were out trying to get any
kind of attention they could

1069
00:33:53,370 --> 00:33:55,230
so they could get a little bit
of money so they could start

1070
00:33:55,230 --> 00:33:57,109
to build stuff so they could
start to cobble together the

1071
00:33:57,109 --> 00:33:58,029
resource to build something.

1072
00:33:58,389 --> 00:34:01,510
Now they're just heads down
in a room by themselves

1073
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:03,039
cranking stuff out.

1074
00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:06,399
Which, on one hand, I love,
and on the other hand, we

1075
00:34:06,399 --> 00:34:08,519
sort of kinda know what the
costs of some of that stuff

1076
00:34:08,519 --> 00:34:09,709
are in the long term, right?

1077
00:34:09,709 --> 00:34:11,890
Losing humanity in this
entire thing is definitely

1078
00:34:11,890 --> 00:34:13,549
not where we want it to go.

1079
00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:15,950
But on the other hand, like,
we can't pretend we still

1080
00:34:15,950 --> 00:34:18,789
need teams when we don't.

1081
00:34:18,899 --> 00:34:19,959
That's what's messing with me.

1082
00:34:20,179 --> 00:34:21,730
So, like, think
about it like this.

1083
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,149
In the not too distant future,
we're gonna be able to say,

1084
00:34:25,319 --> 00:34:28,810
"Hey, this person would be a
great addition to my team, but

1085
00:34:28,810 --> 00:34:33,419
here's person and here's AI."
Now, when we stack the two next

1086
00:34:33,419 --> 00:34:36,770
to each other, AI costs next to
nothing, so that's never gonna

1087
00:34:36,770 --> 00:34:38,060
be taken off the table, right?

1088
00:34:38,060 --> 00:34:38,150
Right.

1089
00:34:38,150 --> 00:34:39,499
There's no version where
a human's gonna go down

1090
00:34:39,499 --> 00:34:40,820
to $400 a month, right?

1091
00:34:40,850 --> 00:34:42,020
Or less, right?

1092
00:34:42,190 --> 00:34:43,900
Not in this country, or not,
not in the United States, but,

1093
00:34:43,959 --> 00:34:44,969
uh- Yeah ... regardless, right?

1094
00:34:45,389 --> 00:34:49,570
The second part of it is AI is
going to run without management.

1095
00:34:49,619 --> 00:34:51,439
I don't mean management from
the standpoint that I don't

1096
00:34:51,439 --> 00:34:53,750
have to oversee it and make
sure it's, it's running rules.

1097
00:34:54,060 --> 00:34:56,340
I mean, it's not
just angry today.

1098
00:34:56,889 --> 00:34:59,320
It's not bitter about the
decisions we've been making

1099
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,310
lately or, you know, all
this, you know, emotional,

1100
00:35:01,349 --> 00:35:03,869
uh, baggage that comes
with every person you hire.

1101
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,770
Th- there's no question mark
as to what AI's gonna give me.

1102
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,470
Now, a couple things- Yeah
... you know, like the output

1103
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:10,959
could be a little bit of a
black box, but when you hire

1104
00:35:10,959 --> 00:35:13,570
somebody, uh, well, you're
going off a resume, right?

1105
00:35:13,570 --> 00:35:14,230
That means nothing.

1106
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:15,599
Everybody's resume's
fake, right?

1107
00:35:15,919 --> 00:35:16,110
Yeah.

1108
00:35:16,189 --> 00:35:18,419
Like, I mean, I don't know
how hard this person's

1109
00:35:18,419 --> 00:35:19,160
actually gonna work.

1110
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:20,739
I don't know what
they actually know.

1111
00:35:21,009 --> 00:35:22,549
I don't know how agreeable
they're gonna be.

1112
00:35:23,009 --> 00:35:24,489
These are all things
that I just used to have

1113
00:35:24,489 --> 00:35:25,649
to deal with, right?

1114
00:35:26,459 --> 00:35:28,989
Now I don't have to
deal with any of them.

1115
00:35:28,989 --> 00:35:29,169
Don't

1116
00:35:29,169 --> 00:35:29,509
have to.

1117
00:35:29,509 --> 00:35:29,590
No.

1118
00:35:29,709 --> 00:35:30,099
Now here's the

1119
00:35:30,099 --> 00:35:30,369
point.

1120
00:35:30,599 --> 00:35:31,160
Here's the setup.

1121
00:35:31,869 --> 00:35:34,919
But I have to agree that
all of those question marks

1122
00:35:34,919 --> 00:35:37,390
and cost and everything else
like that, and limitations-

1123
00:35:37,419 --> 00:35:40,640
Yeah ... are worth more
than doing it through AI.

1124
00:35:41,070 --> 00:35:42,059
That's a tough sell, man.

1125
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:43,529
That's a tough sell.

1126
00:35:44,409 --> 00:35:48,129
I'm saying even if I wanted
the human, the math, I don't

1127
00:35:48,129 --> 00:35:51,559
just mean numerically, probably
won't check out more often than

1128
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:53,080
not, which makes it very- Yeah

1129
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:53,900
difficult to build a team.

1130
00:35:54,220 --> 00:35:54,400
Yeah.

1131
00:35:54,699 --> 00:35:57,349
And I think, again, like, as you
start to look around and you see

1132
00:35:57,349 --> 00:36:00,629
everybody else starting to race
to the bottom and try to create

1133
00:36:00,629 --> 00:36:03,070
competitive advantage from this,
at least in the short term you

1134
00:36:03,070 --> 00:36:06,290
don't really have that much
of a choice, if you wanna stay

1135
00:36:06,290 --> 00:36:08,529
competitive, right, if you want
to be able to continue to exist.

1136
00:36:08,529 --> 00:36:10,699
And so I, I think that's the
other thing that's, that's

1137
00:36:10,699 --> 00:36:13,390
really bizarre about this
is it isn't really a choice.

1138
00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:14,409
It isn't really.

1139
00:36:14,409 --> 00:36:15,220
Like, it looks like a choice.

1140
00:36:15,220 --> 00:36:17,559
Like, oh, I'll just, I
choose to keep hiring people.

1141
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,519
You're also probably kinda
choosing to not be around

1142
00:36:20,519 --> 00:36:23,320
long enough to pay them very
meaningful salaries, right?

1143
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,110
Like, well- Right ... here
is your third paycheck,

1144
00:36:25,110 --> 00:36:27,699
and with that, we're out of
money, and so w- we're done.

1145
00:36:27,729 --> 00:36:30,729
And so it leaves founders in
a really weird position where

1146
00:36:30,949 --> 00:36:32,510
it's not really a choice.

1147
00:36:32,510 --> 00:36:35,400
I mean, the choice is do
I want to have a chance at

1148
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,260
succeeding or not, and if I-
Right ... and if I do, I have

1149
00:36:38,260 --> 00:36:41,190
to think about head count in
a very, very different way.

1150
00:36:41,410 --> 00:36:44,580
It's also typically your
biggest expense by far,

1151
00:36:44,839 --> 00:36:47,779
and consequentially your
biggest liability, right?

1152
00:36:47,779 --> 00:36:47,850
Yeah.

1153
00:36:47,850 --> 00:36:50,289
So it's not like, oh, by
the way, I'm gonna get

1154
00:36:50,289 --> 00:36:53,460
Netflix and Hulu and, and
both costs don't matter and,

1155
00:36:53,460 --> 00:36:54,279
like, you know, whatever.

1156
00:36:54,679 --> 00:36:58,770
This is, like, the number one
thing that makes or breaks

1157
00:36:58,910 --> 00:37:00,619
every single company, right?

1158
00:37:00,619 --> 00:37:02,850
Like, there's very few
companies, unless you're, like,

1159
00:37:02,850 --> 00:37:05,800
a manufacturer or something
like that, that have a part of,

1160
00:37:05,830 --> 00:37:08,619
of, of their income statement
that's bigger than salaries.

1161
00:37:08,850 --> 00:37:12,895
So the weight- of this
decision is massive.

1162
00:37:13,504 --> 00:37:16,795
And again, unlike we're gonna
lease four more vans for

1163
00:37:16,795 --> 00:37:17,804
our delivery service, right?

1164
00:37:17,804 --> 00:37:17,864
Yeah.

1165
00:37:17,864 --> 00:37:18,774
Vans are just vans.

1166
00:37:19,125 --> 00:37:19,885
These are people.

1167
00:37:19,954 --> 00:37:21,795
They've got emotions, they've
got families, they've got

1168
00:37:21,795 --> 00:37:22,854
lives, they've got opinions.

1169
00:37:23,165 --> 00:37:27,554
What you're bringing on isn't
just a unit of production, it's

1170
00:37:27,554 --> 00:37:30,755
a unit of frustration, like
you call what it is, right?

1171
00:37:31,285 --> 00:37:32,714
Think about, you know,
we've been around for

1172
00:37:32,714 --> 00:37:33,884
15 years as a company.

1173
00:37:34,175 --> 00:37:36,195
Think about all the characters
we've had over the years.

1174
00:37:36,824 --> 00:37:37,134
I know.

1175
00:37:37,134 --> 00:37:38,345
You immediately laugh, right?

1176
00:37:38,345 --> 00:37:40,755
And long-term friends that
would fit into this, it's, you

1177
00:37:40,755 --> 00:37:44,264
know, it's all over the map, but
they're all characters, right?

1178
00:37:44,725 --> 00:37:44,795
Yeah.

1179
00:37:44,795 --> 00:37:45,264
Here's what I'm saying.

1180
00:37:45,665 --> 00:37:49,025
We hired for the function, but
that's not all that we got.

1181
00:37:49,624 --> 00:37:49,915
Yeah, correct.

1182
00:37:49,915 --> 00:37:52,455
We hired a salesperson,
but that's not all we got.

1183
00:37:53,334 --> 00:37:53,615
Yeah.

1184
00:37:53,644 --> 00:37:56,574
We got a person that could
sell, but the amount of

1185
00:37:56,574 --> 00:37:58,775
weight that came with that,
the amount of baggage-

1186
00:37:58,775 --> 00:38:00,885
Yeah ... the amount of headache,
the amount of distraction,

1187
00:38:00,885 --> 00:38:01,674
the amount of everything.

1188
00:38:01,924 --> 00:38:02,014
That

1189
00:38:02,014 --> 00:38:03,685
we also played some hockey
with some of them, you know,

1190
00:38:03,685 --> 00:38:04,115
there's, there's- Yeah, yeah.

1191
00:38:04,144 --> 00:38:04,694
No, and, and

1192
00:38:04,694 --> 00:38:06,514
look, this isn't
a knock on anyone.

1193
00:38:06,514 --> 00:38:07,984
I, you know, I- Yeah ... I
would put myself at the

1194
00:38:07,984 --> 00:38:10,694
top of that category of
personality to deal with and

1195
00:38:10,694 --> 00:38:11,444
the weight and everything.

1196
00:38:11,444 --> 00:38:11,984
I get it.

1197
00:38:12,185 --> 00:38:12,505
I get it.

1198
00:38:12,505 --> 00:38:13,615
It's nature of humans.

1199
00:38:14,234 --> 00:38:17,025
But what I'm saying is that
baggage, you know, those

1200
00:38:17,025 --> 00:38:19,364
personalities, the quirks,
the complaints, the, like,

1201
00:38:19,364 --> 00:38:22,345
everything else like that, when
you don't have to have it...

1202
00:38:22,715 --> 00:38:23,325
Here's an example.

1203
00:38:23,745 --> 00:38:25,895
Ryan, how many times have you
committed a line of code so

1204
00:38:25,895 --> 00:38:28,504
far and no one complained about
what, the decision you made?

1205
00:38:28,955 --> 00:38:29,345
All of them.

1206
00:38:29,754 --> 00:38:30,364
Like- All of them.

1207
00:38:30,364 --> 00:38:31,825
Yeah ... 100% of
the time, right?

1208
00:38:32,194 --> 00:38:34,114
What version are you like,
"You know what I'd really like?

1209
00:38:34,114 --> 00:38:36,124
Is somebody to bitch and moan
about this the entire time."

1210
00:38:36,645 --> 00:38:36,764
Yeah.

1211
00:38:36,764 --> 00:38:37,154
I need that.

1212
00:38:37,154 --> 00:38:37,654
Come on, man.

1213
00:38:37,654 --> 00:38:40,554
That, that is actually,
that is the fuel of my soul.

1214
00:38:40,825 --> 00:38:41,635
Yeah, right, right.

1215
00:38:41,635 --> 00:38:44,934
And so, at some point, if
you're growing up on I ship

1216
00:38:44,934 --> 00:38:47,895
code and no one complains-
Yeah ... and all of a sudden

1217
00:38:48,154 --> 00:38:51,245
you bring someone on and now
they're complaining while

1218
00:38:51,245 --> 00:38:53,754
doing the same thing you were
doing five minutes ago- Yeah

1219
00:38:53,754 --> 00:38:55,345
there's no version where
you're like, "Man, I'm glad I'm

1220
00:38:55,345 --> 00:38:58,495
paying 200 times what I w- I
was paying yesterday for that-

1221
00:38:58,495 --> 00:38:59,684
Right ... same outcome," right?

1222
00:39:00,035 --> 00:39:01,224
And it makes it difficult.

1223
00:39:01,544 --> 00:39:02,154
Here's what I would say.

1224
00:39:02,154 --> 00:39:04,514
You know, if we're looking at
pros and cons, the pros, this

1225
00:39:04,514 --> 00:39:06,474
is, uh, as it relates to, you
know, uh, building up staff,

1226
00:39:06,474 --> 00:39:09,385
whatever, is that you build some
culture, you build some fabric.

1227
00:39:09,605 --> 00:39:12,254
I would argue you're paying
a massive premium for it,

1228
00:39:12,254 --> 00:39:13,434
but those things do matter.

1229
00:39:13,915 --> 00:39:16,934
If I look back at the things
that I miss from work from home,

1230
00:39:16,934 --> 00:39:19,724
and I'm sure you would agree,
I miss being around my friends.

1231
00:39:20,025 --> 00:39:20,394
I miss it.

1232
00:39:20,394 --> 00:39:20,564
Yeah.

1233
00:39:20,864 --> 00:39:23,554
And while we do Zooms,
and chats, and whatever,

1234
00:39:23,735 --> 00:39:24,954
that's the equivalent of
knowing- Quite the same

1235
00:39:24,954 --> 00:39:25,804
people on social media.

1236
00:39:25,965 --> 00:39:29,444
You post updates and quips,
but it's not the same thing.

1237
00:39:29,804 --> 00:39:31,194
We have kind of a unique
situation there too,

1238
00:39:31,194 --> 00:39:33,995
Will, which is that we
started in person, right?

1239
00:39:33,995 --> 00:39:34,084
Right.

1240
00:39:34,084 --> 00:39:36,295
Like, most of our team has
been with us long enough

1241
00:39:36,295 --> 00:39:38,495
that they were in an office
with us at some point.

1242
00:39:38,674 --> 00:39:38,935
Correct.

1243
00:39:38,935 --> 00:39:39,114
Right?

1244
00:39:39,114 --> 00:39:39,275
Right.

1245
00:39:39,735 --> 00:39:42,355
And so I think that is
exacerbated even worse, and

1246
00:39:42,355 --> 00:39:44,365
so, like, we're talking from
kind of with a half a deck

1247
00:39:44,365 --> 00:39:47,144
of cards here because we
haven't even fully experienced

1248
00:39:47,144 --> 00:39:48,075
what that's like, right?

1249
00:39:48,075 --> 00:39:49,785
When it's a remote interaction
with a person you have

1250
00:39:49,785 --> 00:39:52,005
literally never met in person-
You bet ... your entire life.

1251
00:39:52,054 --> 00:39:53,035
That's very different.

1252
00:39:53,224 --> 00:39:53,394
You bet.

1253
00:39:53,394 --> 00:39:55,115
And there's a trust that's
built and things like that.

1254
00:39:55,115 --> 00:39:55,255
Yeah.

1255
00:39:55,445 --> 00:39:55,675
Right?

1256
00:39:55,935 --> 00:39:59,294
So I think that the human
element is gonna transform

1257
00:39:59,294 --> 00:40:01,814
from a, "I'm here because
I have a capability you

1258
00:40:01,814 --> 00:40:04,144
couldn't have five minutes
ago," and it's- Yeah

1259
00:40:04,144 --> 00:40:08,204
"I'm here because as a
human I offer a dynamic, a

1260
00:40:08,204 --> 00:40:10,484
vector that's missing, that
you feel- Yeah ... that you

1261
00:40:10,484 --> 00:40:13,015
need more of." And dude, it
might just be companionship.

1262
00:40:13,015 --> 00:40:14,155
Might be the same reason
people get married, right?

1263
00:40:14,155 --> 00:40:14,305
It might be.

1264
00:40:14,305 --> 00:40:16,814
That's what I was saying,
Bob the office pet, right?

1265
00:40:16,814 --> 00:40:17,504
Right, right.

1266
00:40:17,625 --> 00:40:20,664
And while that's weird, I don't
think it's that inconceivable.

1267
00:40:20,704 --> 00:40:22,235
I'll take it back to
the, the work from home.

1268
00:40:22,614 --> 00:40:22,855
Sure.

1269
00:40:23,044 --> 00:40:25,844
There's a lot of people,
uh, managers- Yeah ... that

1270
00:40:25,844 --> 00:40:28,985
insist on keeping everyone in
the office, not because they

1271
00:40:29,015 --> 00:40:31,485
actually believe the work
can't get done, 'cause they

1272
00:40:31,485 --> 00:40:32,875
don't wanna go home, right?

1273
00:40:32,875 --> 00:40:32,945
Yeah.

1274
00:40:32,945 --> 00:40:35,215
I mean, dude, I don't wanna
undersell this for a second.

1275
00:40:35,914 --> 00:40:37,954
I know an awful
lot of CEOs, right?

1276
00:40:38,085 --> 00:40:41,724
Because that's just my job,
and I have a awful lot of very

1277
00:40:41,724 --> 00:40:45,235
candid conversations, and the
ones that are all stalwarts

1278
00:40:45,235 --> 00:40:48,305
about you have to come into
the office all have a very

1279
00:40:48,305 --> 00:40:51,815
specific situation that makes
it- Yeah ... so there's a reason

1280
00:40:51,815 --> 00:40:52,885
they wanna come into the office.

1281
00:40:52,885 --> 00:40:53,845
They want to be in the office.

1282
00:40:53,955 --> 00:40:54,015
Yeah.

1283
00:40:54,015 --> 00:40:54,195
Yeah, yeah.

1284
00:40:54,315 --> 00:40:56,135
Now, I'm not saying
it's bad necessarily.

1285
00:40:56,195 --> 00:40:56,345
Right.

1286
00:40:56,345 --> 00:40:57,455
I'm saying it's
not out of nowhere.

1287
00:40:57,655 --> 00:40:59,244
Like, I have an-
Yeah ... amazing home life.

1288
00:40:59,284 --> 00:41:01,354
Like, my wife and kids
are just freaking amazing.

1289
00:41:01,394 --> 00:41:02,655
Zero friction.

1290
00:41:03,104 --> 00:41:06,125
But if that were not the case,
if my wife were up my ass all

1291
00:41:06,125 --> 00:41:08,905
the time and my kids were just-
Yeah ... uh, psychopaths, I'd

1292
00:41:08,905 --> 00:41:10,125
wanna get the fuck out, right?

1293
00:41:10,125 --> 00:41:12,155
I'd be like, "Hell yeah,
we're having an office,

1294
00:41:12,364 --> 00:41:14,614
and everybody has to come
because I do," right?

1295
00:41:14,724 --> 00:41:17,235
So I guess what I'm saying
is I think that what's gonna

1296
00:41:17,235 --> 00:41:19,284
push people outside, you
know, the, the army of one,

1297
00:41:19,284 --> 00:41:22,284
the team of one, is going
to be a thirst for humanity,

1298
00:41:22,324 --> 00:41:23,275
like that lack of connection.

1299
00:41:23,674 --> 00:41:23,854
Yeah, yeah.

1300
00:41:23,854 --> 00:41:23,915
Yeah.

1301
00:41:24,114 --> 00:41:26,015
And I think that's gonna take
some time because I think- Yeah

1302
00:41:26,015 --> 00:41:27,845
that's one of those hungers that
has to build up a little bit.

1303
00:41:27,875 --> 00:41:30,375
I- it's one of those things
where we can say that now and

1304
00:41:30,375 --> 00:41:32,525
we can intellectualize it, but
I think until we've actually

1305
00:41:32,525 --> 00:41:35,485
experienced it and gone like,
"Damn, yeah, this is really,

1306
00:41:35,485 --> 00:41:38,195
really lonely. Yeah, I am now
shipping stuff all by myself,

1307
00:41:38,195 --> 00:41:40,955
haven't had to talk to a human
in, in two weeks, and oh my

1308
00:41:40,955 --> 00:41:43,324
God, I haven't talked to a
human in two weeks," right?

1309
00:41:43,324 --> 00:41:44,434
At some point- People
all the time now.

1310
00:41:44,474 --> 00:41:46,025
Yeah ... that, that
bill starts to come due.

1311
00:41:46,165 --> 00:41:47,774
Yeah, it'll be interesting
to see how long

1312
00:41:47,774 --> 00:41:48,684
that actually takes.

1313
00:41:49,044 --> 00:41:52,684
And I gotta say this, like
personally, I think a startup

1314
00:41:53,235 --> 00:41:56,015
that's made up of lots of
people, lots of voices, lots

1315
00:41:56,015 --> 00:41:58,604
of personality is really what
a startup is meant to be in

1316
00:41:58,604 --> 00:42:00,334
the same way I feel like that's
what a community is meant

1317
00:42:00,334 --> 00:42:01,225
to be, what a family- Yeah

1318
00:42:01,225 --> 00:42:02,115
is meant to be, et cetera.

1319
00:42:02,375 --> 00:42:05,544
It's this fabric and this
tapestry of all these voices.

1320
00:42:05,975 --> 00:42:09,684
But the truth is not all
those voices that used to get

1321
00:42:09,684 --> 00:42:11,705
grandfathered in in the past
just because they were the

1322
00:42:11,705 --> 00:42:13,595
only person that could write
code or the only person who

1323
00:42:13,595 --> 00:42:16,084
knew accounting are getting
an automatic Willy Wonka

1324
00:42:16,084 --> 00:42:17,065
ticket to the table anymore.

1325
00:42:17,315 --> 00:42:17,595
Right.

1326
00:42:17,744 --> 00:42:19,824
And I think for a lot of
startups, for a lot of founders,

1327
00:42:20,084 --> 00:42:22,755
we're gonna be in a position
f- for the first time that

1328
00:42:22,755 --> 00:42:24,765
team of one is the default.

1329
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,740
Team of one, like, is how
people build companies.

1330
00:42:27,940 --> 00:42:28,000
Yeah.

1331
00:42:28,099 --> 00:42:31,889
And it will be a, both a
luxury and a hard decision

1332
00:42:32,219 --> 00:42:34,719
to add humans to this
community, to this tapestry.

1333
00:42:35,299 --> 00:42:37,150
I think that's a difficult
future, but I don't think

1334
00:42:37,150 --> 00:42:40,280
there's any question whatsoever
that that is the future that

1335
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:41,480
we're all looking at right now.

1336
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,359
Overthinking your startup
because you're going it alone?

1337
00:42:44,769 --> 00:42:47,619
You don't have to, and honestly,
you shouldn't, because instead,

1338
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,570
you can learn directly from
peers who've been in your shoes.

1339
00:42:50,859 --> 00:42:53,139
Connect with bootstrap
founders and the advisors

1340
00:42:53,139 --> 00:42:55,570
helping them win in the
Startups.com community.

1341
00:42:55,769 --> 00:43:00,339
Check out the Startups.com
community at www.startups.com

1342
00:43:00,479 --> 00:43:01,359
to see if it's for you.

1343
00:43:01,670 --> 00:43:02,650
Could be just the
thing you need.

1344
00:43:02,929 --> 00:43:03,800
I hope to see you inside