The Art of the Zag

What if a neuroscientist could measure exactly which stories change your brain -- and which ones fall flat?

Dr. Paul Zak is the neuroeconomist who spent two decades answering that question. His lab discovered that great stories spike oxytocin -- the neurochemical behind trust -- and built a platform that can predict which messages will change behavior with over 80% accuracy. Joe and Shane have written about his work extensively, and in this conversation, they go deep on the foundational science of storytelling, Zak's response to the critics, and his newest research on the science of happiness.

Dr. Zak is a professor at Claremont Graduate University, founder of Immersion Neuroscience, and author of four books including his latest, The Little Book of Happiness.

Website: https://pauljzak.com

Free SIX App: https://your6.com

The Little Book of Happiness: https://www.amazon.com/Little-Book-Happiness-Scientific-Approach/dp/1544547870

Immersion Neuroscience: https://getimmersion.com


Chapters:

(00:00) The scientist who made Shane cry

(01:46) Dr. Paul Zak joins the show

(02:28) The DARPA project behind storytelling

(08:31) The 15-second rule

(20:25) Does oxytocin have a dark side?

(29:22) Six peak experiences a day to thrive

(38:12) Isolation, Gen Z, and screen time

(43:49) A video that reduced racial bias

(47:49) Testosterone and political leanings

(57:01) You are a weirdo


What is The Art of the Zag?

Best-selling authors and long-time buddies Shane Snow and Joe Lazer explore how to win by zagging when everyone else is zigging—in business and in life. Learn breakthrough strategies for building trust, telling better stories, and winning the AI Age from the world's most innovative founders, authors, and icons. Have an idea for a guest? Email guest@joelazer.com.

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