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The Transform your Teaching podcast is a service of the Center for Teaching and Learning at Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio. Join Dr. Rob McDole and Dr. Jared Pyles as they seek to inspire higher education faculty to adopt innovative teaching and learning practices.
Hello, Transform Your Teaching listeners. It's Jared. Whether you are new to the podcast or have been around since day one, we want to hear from you. Please take a minute and fill out our quick survey and help us make the podcast even better. Click the link in our description.
Jared:We'd be very grateful if you did. And for participating, you'll be put into a drawing for a handcrafted transform your teaching mug. And we're doing a drawing in the month of October, November, and December. So be sure to participate and help us out. We'd be grateful if you did.
Jared:And as always, thanks for listening.
Jon:What I would say is that we should have a huge heart of compassion towards our students today because in a sense, what I would say is they're not okay and it's not their fault.
Rob:It's the world they've been given.
Narrator:This is the Transform The Transform Your Teaching Podcast is a service of the Center for Teaching and Learning at Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio.
Jared:Welcome back to the Transform Your Teaching Podcast on the campus of Cedarville University. My name is Jared Pyles. With me is Dr. Rob McDole.
Rob:Good afternoon.
Jared:We are continuing our series on understanding the new college student, and we're, privileged to have to help us, help answer some questions that we have and help to paint a picture of what the future college student and the current college student looks like. Here at the university, he's our vice president of Student Life and Christian Ministries and is also an assistant professor of theological studies, Dr. Jon Wood.
Jon:Thanks for having me on. Cheers. Appreciate it, guys.
Rob:Welcome. We are excited that you're here.
Jon:Well, it's so good to be with you, and I appreciate the ways you guys are helping us think about how to serve our students the best.
Rob:So why don't you kick us off and let us know how did you get here to Cedarville? What brought you here? What was that path?
Jon:Yeah, thanks so much for asking. So my ultimate trajectory into higher education actually started with a pursuit towards ministry. So in my undergraduate degree, I actually studied and did a pre law degree and was thinking if I wanted to go to law school and all that and still definitely love those sorts of themes. Ironically, and maybe providentially, they are still relevant to what I'm doing today as a vice president for student services. But along the way, the Lord took my trajectory towards ministry and the idea then of discipling college students and equipping college students to, move forward in life and to, you know, step into vocations that can make a difference in the world around them for the kingdom and anywhere they might go.
Jon:And so the ultimate trajectory led me towards working in higher education rather than local church ministry and just through a lot of connections with people, and particularly our president, Dr. Thomas White, the opportunity opened up to come serve here at Cedarville. I've been here eleven years and absolutely have loved the journey and thankful for all the wonderful things we've got going on around here and excited to see what, God is doing with an ever new generation of students that we get to be a part of, shaping their lives and futures.
Jared:What have your experiences been like with, interacting with students in your role as vice president of student services?
Jon:Well, so, I mean, I'm convinced I have the best job around campus because I get to interact with students across the entire scope of what their experience is at the university. In lots of ways, we talk about the Cedarville experience because we really want to frame what's going on in the students' lives in terms of thinking about how they're interacting with and what's going on. So on the spectrum of things, I get to oversee the really wonderful moments of a student's life and engage in that when it comes to their spiritual growth and what's going on there through what we call Christian ministries here at the university, and their discipleship, how they're awakening to God's purposes for their lives, and how they can step forward into whatever vocation and degree field they're pursuing, and connect that to how to make a difference in the world and to glorify God through that. And then across to the other end of the spectrum, get to work with our students in their most vulnerable and broken moments through realms like counseling services and residence life and these moments where we enter into students' lives when things aren't going the way that a student would want in their experience.
Jon:To be with them in those moments is every bit as much of discipleship as it is to, you know, teach them how to evangelize somebody. It's how are you going to follow Christ through the trials you're engaging in life right now? And so in my experience, I shift gears a lot. My weekly schedule is very unpredictable, and because I'll range from the, you know, one end of that spectrum to another, and get to work obviously with a wonderful team of people who are really well equipped and know a lot more than I do and are making a huge impact in our students' lives. And so it's a great joy.
Rob:You talked about some of the pressures and things that students are going through, how you've been handling those. And that kind of leads us into what's gotten us here in terms of the podcast is just noticing and hearing from faculty, you know, hey, how do we deal with these students? Help us understand them. Right? And this there's, like, been just this ongoing just over the past year, especially, this ongoing call, if you will, of can you just give us some insight?
Rob:So that's kind of what pushed us down this path and brings us here with you today. So I guess one of the questions that I would ask you is what are those noticeable changes that you're seeing or from from the student life and Christian ministries area in our students.
Jon:Yeah. No. And I think this is not just our faculty. This is a wholesale thing at Cedarville University within higher education, education more broadly, and our society. I mean, this is a conversation that I'm observing happening in a really broad way.
Jon:And then, of course, we're reckoning with it inside the classroom and outside the classroom here at our university as well. And so what are the notable changes that we would observe with this generation with these students? Think it really for me, I would summarize it in three. One would be that there's diminished maturity markers. What I mean by that is that the things that would have characterized, say, an 18 to 22 year old in previous cycles of education that we've seen in previous generations, those those can't be counted on to be in students.
Jon:And some of those maturity markers are very external and objective, meaning things like Jean Twenge notes in her book Generations. Students are getting driver's licenses later. They're engaging in things like getting jobs and dating and those sorts of things in high school age teenagers. And what you see then is on down the line in the next phase of life as college students, those maturity markers are diminished. They're not as characteristic of students and across the board then what that means is level of independence, the level of able to solve their own problems, those sorts of things have diminished.
Jon:So that's diminished maturity markers. A second way, a noticeable change would be just mental and emotional resilience. The idea that that life brings resistance with it. When that resistance comes, the students' resilience to engage and press through and overcome whatever the stressor is. And oftentimes, that's by definition what education is.
Jon:This is why it's hitting us so hard in the field of education, is we are by definition educating through expecting students to press to a higher level of maturity and understanding and knowledge and pressing through that resilience, and their ability to do that seems to be diminished. And then a third noticeable change I would note is that there are quick cycles of uncertainty turning to fear, which blooms into anxiety, and their impulse is to stop. Okay, so I just described a cycle that starts with uncertainty, and again, starting a new phase of life, coming to college as a freshman at 18 years old is filled with uncertainty. Every generation has felt that. And so then when you engage the uncertainty, how do I relate to a roommate?
Jon:How do I navigate the uncertainty of what syllabus day means and all its overwhelmingness of the details of a whole semester in one shot from a professor? When I'm thinking about so many other aspects of life and uncertainty, the next impulse then is fear. That fear blooms into an anxiety that then feels debilitating, and then the impulse is to just stop. And that stoppage is then when oftentimes a faculty member or somebody in the student services realm will then have to engage that student. And lots of times, that stoppage isn't observed immediately.
Jon:It takes a week or two to really become evident because it's quiz grades that's missed. It's class attendance. It's something else
Rob:Mhmm.
Jon:External that takes time to manifest itself, and that cycling is is what's what's different.
Jared:What do you think the cause is of this? Now, to me, from my perspective on it, I see it as this isn't something that's biological. This isn't something that this generation just is genetically coded to be this way. What do you think are the causes to see this shift from a previous generation, which I'm sure you've seen here since you've been here over a decade, you've seen this. Maybe you have, maybe you haven't seen the shift between generations since you've been here.
Jon:Yeah. I think so just one note on that, that's a good mention, is that I would say we've really seen this shift within the last five years.
Jared:Okay.
Jon:And so it's a it's a pretty big distinction as, when I started at this university that we were still kinda at the tail end of the millennial generation.
Jared:Mhmm.
Jon:And that shift over to gen z, that that is a very noticeable
Jared:shift to
Jon:the point that we've seen it, sometime around the last five years. I would characterize it really starting around 2018, 2019 or so in my experience.
Jared:So why?
Jon:Oh, man. This is That that is the question, and that is the question that that many books are being written about right now.
Jared:What do you think?
Jon:And so so what do I think?
Jared:Think You're gonna write a book on it.
Jon:Oh, no.
Rob:Yes.
Jon:So I think it's the confluence of of multiple things. And a few of the headliners that I would note is, one, is there is no doubt that that technology plays a huge role in this. I love technology.
Jon:I love kind of being an early adopter and all those sorts of things. And also, I'm convinced that technology is so adversely impacting humanity in an unfettered way and how it's been adopted, especially when it's put in the hands of kids. And you think about all the timing, and this is what Jonathan Haidt really notes in his book Anxious Generation, is that all of this seems to correspond. He does all this research to back it up, that it all corresponds with the moment that it became normal for kids to have really super high powered computers, we call iPhones and iPads and other versions of those same sorts of devices, in their hands from the moment they were conscious as human beings. Yeah.
Jon:And that has so profoundly impacted them. So I think there's something there with that. We can unpack that more, that relates not just to the the form of that technology, but the content and so forth is being consumed through the medium of that technology. A second one is that, there's a full flowering just philosophically within our culture of you create your own reality and the affirmation culture and the you define your own culture, and you get to name your reality and define what that is. And if you kind of say this is how I identify, then this is who I am, that that leads to this idea then that there's this inherent thing that if you're not happy, then there is something inherently wrong with life.
Jon:And the Christian worldview tells us that's exactly not the case.
Rob:Mhmm.
Jon:It's actually a very important part of of the Christian worldview that we live in a broken world that's not designed. This won't be our home. This isn't meant for our happiness.
Jon:And so it's meant to show us there is a greater glory to for which we're living. And so I think a loss of that just culturally and socially, and I think that that's tracked over to the church in lots of ways. Not that that message is being preached outright, but we've been so influenced by that within the church culturally that kids are being raised that way in Christian homes. And and so that's lowering the, you know, the the response and the resilience that we've talked about. And so those are two major ones that I think have merged to really impact this generation.
Jon:And what I would say is we should have a huge heart of compassion towards our students today. Because in a sense, what I would say is they're not okay. All the statistics would show that, the claims of a crisis of mental health would show that, and it's not their fault. It's the world they've been given. And so that ought to be our starting point of love towards them.
Jared:So this makes me wonder, our approach shouldn't be to try to fix the student. We shouldn't be trying to be like, "hey, you don't know how to drive. Well, I'm gonna go teach you how to drive." Right? To me anyway, I feel like it's it's it's almost like the equivalent of I'm about to pull a really cool hip reference here, but like the okay boomer stuff where it's like kids these days can't crochet.
Jared:I think I mentioned that on the other episode. Kids these days can't crochet. That's why they're so screwed up and everything else. Instead of focusing on that, you're saying with compassion and love, identify with who they are and kind of help them bridge that gap a bit.
Jon:That's right. Our grand opportunity is to start with a certain mentality.
Jared:Yeah.
Jon:Generational conflict has is not a new thing. That's as old as anything under the sun.
Jon:And so the greatest generation to boomers, you know, so my grandfather's generation to my parents' generation, there was a huge clash there. Mhmm. From from those who fought in World War two to then how their their hippie children were living. Right?
Jon:And and so that was not helpful or fruitful in how a lot of that went down. And so what we need to see today is that the yeah, the goal is not to look down upon, to shame, to diminish their role in our society, but to say, you know, these students, they are, in essence, the future. And we have a grand opportunity to invest in them, and we can't, you know, let them off the hook for what is normal and healthy humanity by God's design, for who they should grow to be. Maturity is God's design.
Jon:Mhmm. But there's particular challenges to that maturity and the growth of that that we need to think now intelligently how do we help them make those steps given their manifestation of challenges versus what other generations have engaged.
Jared:So practically speaking in the classroom, what does that look like? How can we help students in this generation?
Jon:That's that's a great question. I think there's a lot of good thinking going on in that space these days. And I think that, there's not an absolute and final answer right now, but here's a few ideas for you. One is, return them to a sense of transcendence. Call them to wonder at God in the world that's bigger than them.
Jon:One of the effects of the devices and one of the reasons I think it's having the negative impact is it is taking the world God has designed for human beings, and it is shrinking it down to a 12 inch glass screen. And all of reality is mediated through that screen. And what we are not so good at as humanity these days, and this isn't just Gen Z, this is all of us, is is lifting our eyes above that screen to realize, wow, this is all so much bigger than me, and there's a God at the center of it all. I'm not at the center of all. The opinions of my friends and my comparison to them is not at the center of it all.
Jon:You know, the stress and anxiety my class is causing me, rightfully so, as an academic endeavor, is not what defines everything about my reality. There's something bigger here. So so step one, as as crazy as it sounds at the outset, is it has to start with reframing and showing them reality because they've been given, again, from the time they were babies, a reality defined in a very small way and help them see how big reality is. Bring that into biology. Bring that into accounting.
Jon:Bring that into psychology. The the world of knowledge that is what we do at a university is just begging for us to give that picture of reality by God's design to humanity through the means of education. Another idea is give them a positive vision for maturity. This goes back to, to Jared, what you're saying about the the "okay boomer" posture versus, "hey, how do we help them grow?" And it's to say, hey, it is a good thing to embrace maturity.
Jon:At their core, they want to because that's what they're designed for. Colossians one talks about how Paul was laboring amongst the Colossian church for their maturity. So in that sense, it's a biblical word that defines who we're supposed to be becoming as Christians. We're supposed to be becoming mature. And in every way, that applies to us as human beings because we're created body, mind, soul, spirit, and God's designed all of us to to to pursue maturity.
Jon:So help them to see there's a beautiful opportunity. And one of the interesting things we see is that when students latch on to that, they will really go for it, then they become the leaders, and they're the ones that employers are desperate to hire. Mhmm. Because they'll come to campus. They'll engage with those students who already have a leg up on maturity over their peers comparatively and say, yeah, that's who we want now serving.
Jon:And from a from a Christian perspective, like, what we see is that that is entirely missional because that's our opportunity to influence the world around us. And part of positive vision for maturity. And then third, I would say incorporate coaching into the course of delivery. And so it's very easy, and it's kind of an old school educational mindset to say, okay. Here's a syllabus, and you go read it, and you track with it, and you do it.
Jon:And there's gonna be elements of the class that are independent of anything I'm gonna do or say in the class setting. You just have to know and be responsible for this research project or whatever it might be. And other things, yeah, I'll lecture in class, but don't bother me asking about details of how to do this or that or the other. And what I think we see with these students is that you know, faculty who are making a real deep impact on students are the ones who are able to still maintain the integrity of the educational process and then their class presence, but they incorporate some coaching along the way. Let me tell you a month out some steps you need to be taking on this research project.
Jon:And then let me tell you three weeks out, you know, the next series of steps. And not in a overly hand holding way because, again, remember, we're celebrating maturity, and we could undermine maturity by doing too much for them. Indeed, that's probably part of the problem for how Gen Z got here was doing too much for them in certain ways. So can't make that mistake, but yet also incorporating coaching that maybe would not be intuitive for for others. So there's three ideas for you.
Rob:There is a lot there.
Jared:To me, it's teaching the whole student.
Rob:Yeah. And and the other thing I'm seeing here is feedback cycle. We gotta shorten the feedback cycle. Yes. This generation, especially, I think, gets left more so than those previous generations who already had an ethic of go and figure it out.
Rob:These students don't know how to even do that unless there's a YouTube video on how to go and figure it out.
Jon:That's right. The prompting and the motivation is coming from outside of the student. It's coming from the professor. It's coming from, in some cases, Mom having access to and logging into the learning management system to monitor their grades and so forth, which is not healthy and is not marking maturity.
Jared:It's also not legal.
Jon:It's not right.
Jared:FERPA.
Jon:It should not happen.
Jared:It should not be happening.
Jon:It should not be happening. I agree. Yeah, what I'm just noting is that the motivation is becoming from outside of the student. And what we want to do is to coach and to help them to see how for that motivation to come from inside their their own mentality
Jared:Yeah.
Jon:In pursuing their education.
Rob:So we've already talked about what we can do in classes. We've talked a little bit about life skills, some of those things you were just talking about. One of the big labels that's been used a lot is anxiety. So would you unpack that for us from your perspective?
Jon:Sure. I'd be I'd be happy to. I think this is, again, defining in this language is is dominating what's happening certainly in the student services world and is certainly informing a backdrop of all of higher education these days. And so broadly speaking, what we are seeing is, you know, unprecedented self reported and self manifested instances of anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and on the list goes of, manifestations of what's classically been identified as mental health. And I think one of the interesting challenges we're faced with right now is that the term mental health is such a broad term and is applied so broadly.
Jon:And so even in using the word anxiety, you know, I was anxious about walking over here and doing this podcast, in part because I didn't know where the room was and okay, it's gonna take a little bit extra time. I gotta figure it out and, you know, those sorts of things. Well, you might call that stress and to some degree, healthy stress. I need to be on time. I need to think ahead, and I need to make a plan, and I need to follow through so that I'm not late and think through those things.
Jon:And so the stress has prompted a healthy reaction. So with that, that that sort of stress I just described in some settings is described as anxiety and a mental health problem. And so there's there's a helpful article in the Chronicle not too long ago about, hey, we need to change some of the language we use and the narrative around that there's a mental health crisis. Because all of the crisis language is painting with too broad of a brush that's not going to accurately describe the certain, you know, experiences of students and then how we need to help them through those experiences. And I think there's really something to that.
Jon:Now on the other side of it, are we seeing students with certainly more and intensified manifestations of debilitating social anxiety or panic attacks and depression and suicidal ideation? Yes, absolutely. And it is heartbreaking. And so across the spectrum, what I would say is the entire spectrum of what I was described from healthy, normal stress that can be responded to rightly across to genuine deep problems and experiencing the brokenness of humanity with our mental and emotional well-being, all of that is elevated. And to some degree, all of it is painted with the same brush, which is unhelpful because the solutions are very different.
Jon:What we would advise and how we would counsel and how we would come around support and equip somebody at one end of that spectrum with stress and general just seasonal kind of mood depression and those sorts of things is very different than how we're going to engage for the well-being of preserving somebody's life in instances of suicidal ideation and depression. And we're being called upon to respond to all of that in our day and time. And I think we need to step one is is rightly understand and define what it is we're talking about. And overall, the huge label of mental health is is kind of obscuring that right now. And so without throwing the baby out with the bathwater
Jon:of real genuine human need, we also need to be a little more precise in the spirit of loving and caring well for people.
Rob:So, you know, our faculty and listeners across The United States and in other countries, you know, one of the things that that they're facing are these these issues of what do I do in my classroom when I have these students and they say, I need a mental health day or I'm having mental health issues. You know, they're not necessarily specific. What kind of strategies would you give them?
Jon:Yeah. That's great. So as a faculty member, I'd say the first step is learn how to ask a clarifying question and listen well. To say, what's going on and what do you mean by that?
Rob:Mhmm.
Jon:Right? And and it can be a temptation to have an initial sort reaction to that claim from a student as a faculty member. And as a professor, I totally understand that desire. Are you kidding me? Right?
Jon:But but I I try to slow that process down in my mind and then say, okay. Wait. Wait. What do you mean? And what might surface is, okay.
Jon:Here's these circumstances that happened personally. And because, you know, my car broke down and then I had to solve that problem and get it to a shop and my dad was grouchy about it. And, you know, so then I meant I didn't get to bed last night until 2AM by the time I finished this homework that Rob McDole gave me in my business ethics class because he's the meanest professor on the planet. That then now, you know, I overslept my alarm this morning, and, man, I just am not gonna engage today, Jon, in Theology 2. That might be what they mean.
Jon:To which I'll be able to say, oh, wow. Okay. I get that. That's a lot. That's overwhelming.
Jon:Those sorts of circumstances, they happen in life no matter what age we are. I can relate to something like that last week. Right? But, hey, I just really encourage you, like, come and hang with me in class. Like, don't don't give up on it today.
Jon:Like, press through that. You know? That's the one in the spectrum. The other end of the spectrum, might say, like, yeah. No.
Jon:I mean, I was on the suicide hotline last night because I am, you know, I'm really contemplating taking my own life. And you might get an an a response that honest from a student if if that trust has been opened to which you need to think, okay. Wow. There's there's some different next steps Yeah. That need to happen.
Jon:Wow. Some questions of what resources are you connected to, and how can I connect you to somebody in this moment as a next step and to assess a little bit of well-being safety and what campus resource or even external resource might need to be engaged in that moment? Those are two very different scenarios that might engender a student saying, you know, for mental health reasons, I'm just I'm I'm not I can't do class today.
Rob:I would just highly, highly, highly encourage our faculty to, one, we'll have this in the notes, in the description so that you can link to it directly. We'll we'll put it there, but we also need to just encourage others who aren't on our campus to one, identify these kinds of resources that you have at your institution or wherever you're at and make sure that you are equipped to handle these scenarios when they come. Because it's not a matter of if they come, is it, Jon? It's a matter of when?
Jon:No. I would say it's yeah. It's quite likely that that something on the spectrum of what we've discussed here may not always be the most intense, but something on the spectrum will come any faculty member's way if they're heartily engaging with students and being a good faculty member. And so being prepared is is is definitely a need.
Jared:Well, Dr. Wood, we appreciate you coming on and helping us out kind of paint a better picture of the current college student and the approaching college student. We appreciate you coming on.
Jon:Thank you for having me. And I just would really just encourage you guys that thinking about how to serve this generation well not just a matter of our jobs and your job. This is actually truly a grand opportunity. It's a grand opportunity that these are young men and young women created in the image of God, designed to experience the fullness of flourishing in him and in of joy and satisfaction of soul that Christ alone can provide. And in that broader context then to gain their degree and to step forward as accountants or nurses or future doctors or educators in public school spaces and to be able to carry forward and make a profound impact on the world around us.
Jon:And so what we're really talking about here is that we really want to be able to help equip and serve these students well for the much broader vision, not just of getting through this semester and how do I engage these things that cause me stress as a faculty member, but also to lift our eyes back up to that big picture To say there's something really remarkable and grand about being in education, being in higher education, to teaching in Christian higher education, especially where we have such a unique opportunity to influence others and impact the world around us through our students. The way you guys are approaching this, I think, is helping us to make sure what we're doing that well.
Jared:And that's gonna do it for us on the Transform Your Teaching podcast. Be sure to like and subscribe and follow on your favorite podcast platform. Fill out our survey for us. You'll be entered into a drawing to get a Transform Your Teaching coffee slash tea mug, and, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn as well. All that information is in our description.
Jared:Thanks for listening.