1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,240 Carol Cox: Hear how one idea became a signature talk, 2 00:00:03,280 --> 00:00:06,280 a speaking platform and a published book with 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,960 my guest, thought leader Academy grad Melania 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,360 Murphy. On this episode of the Speaking Your 5 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,640 Brand podcast, more and more women are making 6 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:17,960 an impact by starting businesses, 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,640 running for office, and speaking up for what 8 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,640 matters. With my background as a TV political 9 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,240 analyst, entrepreneur, 10 00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:27,880 and speaker, I interview and coach purpose 11 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,280 driven women to shape their brands, 12 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,680 grow their companies, and become recognized 13 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,000 as influencers in their field. 14 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,560 This is speaking your brand, 15 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,000 your place to learn how to persuasively 16 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,200 communicate your message to your audience. 17 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:46,160 Hi there and welcome to the Speaking Your 18 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:47,680 Brand podcast. This is your host, 19 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,280 Carol Cox. Today we're going to talk about a 20 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,560 thought leadership, a journey from just an 21 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,560 idea to a signature talk to a published book 22 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,720 in just a matter of a year or two. 23 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,000 My guess is thought leader Academy graduate 24 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,240 Melania Murphy, who went through our program 25 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,960 back in the summer fall of 2024. 26 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:11,400 Then she attended one of our one day 27 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,800 in-person speaking workshops that we hold in 28 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:15,040 Orlando, Florida. 29 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,040 And then she also attended a writing and 30 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,000 speaking retreat that I co-hosted with book 31 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:22,920 coach Tiffany Hawk, who is amazing. 32 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,360 I'll put links to those podcast episodes I've 33 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:26,920 done with Tiffany in the show notes. 34 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:31,080 But Melania, I and I am so proud and excited 35 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,040 of all the things that you have done since 36 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:34,840 I've gotten to know you, and I'm excited for 37 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,200 us to talk about your journey from idea to 38 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:39,840 signature talk to book, 39 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:41,920 because I feel like so many of the listeners 40 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,200 of the podcast want to do the same thing. 41 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,320 They want to put their message out in a 42 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:49,080 bigger way. They want to have a positive 43 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,200 impact on their audiences with their 44 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,760 speaking, but also potentially with a book. 45 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,480 So we're going to dive into all of that here 46 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,350 together. But first, I want to know. 47 00:01:59,710 --> 00:02:01,670 Tell us a little bit about your book. 48 00:02:01,670 --> 00:02:03,630 Give us the title, and then we're going to 49 00:02:03,630 --> 00:02:06,030 talk about what it even means and where this 50 00:02:06,030 --> 00:02:07,070 idea came from. 51 00:02:07,990 --> 00:02:09,270 Melania Murphy: Okay, great. Well thanks, 52 00:02:09,270 --> 00:02:11,390 Carol. I'm so excited to be here. 53 00:02:11,390 --> 00:02:13,230 It certainly has been a journey with you. 54 00:02:13,230 --> 00:02:15,190 I remember my first call like, 55 00:02:15,390 --> 00:02:17,710 I don't know, is this really right for me? 56 00:02:17,710 --> 00:02:19,310 And you were so encouraging and so 57 00:02:19,310 --> 00:02:21,990 supportive. So I really appreciate that. 58 00:02:21,990 --> 00:02:23,950 It's really helped me to get to the finish 59 00:02:23,950 --> 00:02:27,710 line here. So my book is called Bound by 60 00:02:27,750 --> 00:02:30,870 Love, Not Tradition Empowering Women through 61 00:02:30,910 --> 00:02:33,110 Mary Named Choices. I just got my printed 62 00:02:33,110 --> 00:02:35,390 copy just two days ago, 63 00:02:35,390 --> 00:02:37,470 so I'm really excited about it. 64 00:02:37,470 --> 00:02:41,750 So yes. So my book is about married name 65 00:02:41,790 --> 00:02:45,070 choices and really kind of doing a deep dive 66 00:02:45,110 --> 00:02:48,390 into the options that we have, 67 00:02:48,430 --> 00:02:51,950 the traditions that our society has, 68 00:02:52,430 --> 00:02:54,990 you know, taught us some unconscious, 69 00:02:54,990 --> 00:02:57,630 some ingrained, some, you know, 70 00:02:57,670 --> 00:02:59,390 very on the level here. 71 00:02:59,390 --> 00:03:02,790 But, um, it's just really about looking at 72 00:03:02,790 --> 00:03:04,510 all the options that we have. 73 00:03:04,510 --> 00:03:07,470 And for women thinking about what's most 74 00:03:07,470 --> 00:03:10,150 important to me as a woman, 75 00:03:10,150 --> 00:03:13,910 and, you know, how do I how do I empower 76 00:03:13,910 --> 00:03:17,990 myself to get what I want out of my name and 77 00:03:18,030 --> 00:03:19,670 at the same time being loving, 78 00:03:19,670 --> 00:03:22,830 compassionate and being very equal with my 79 00:03:22,830 --> 00:03:23,390 partner? 80 00:03:24,310 --> 00:03:27,190 Carol Cox: Okay, so I this topic is so fascinating to me 81 00:03:27,190 --> 00:03:31,270 because. So I have been with my husband since 82 00:03:31,270 --> 00:03:33,630 I was in college, so a very long time now. 83 00:03:33,630 --> 00:03:36,270 I won't even disclose what the actual number 84 00:03:36,270 --> 00:03:38,870 of years is. Uh, so a very long time. 85 00:03:38,870 --> 00:03:41,710 But we didn't, uh, decide to actually get 86 00:03:41,710 --> 00:03:44,990 married until about 14 years into our 87 00:03:44,990 --> 00:03:46,710 relationship. And so, you know, 88 00:03:46,750 --> 00:03:49,670 by then I had been to graduate school, 89 00:03:49,670 --> 00:03:51,470 I had started we had started a business 90 00:03:51,470 --> 00:03:53,830 together. We didn't have any children, 91 00:03:53,830 --> 00:03:55,310 and we weren't planning on it. 92 00:03:55,350 --> 00:03:57,590 And so when we got married, 93 00:03:57,870 --> 00:04:00,830 I literally did not even think twice about 94 00:04:00,830 --> 00:04:03,510 keeping my family name, 95 00:04:03,510 --> 00:04:05,550 my given name, which is Carol Cox Cox, 96 00:04:05,590 --> 00:04:07,950 of course, being my father's last name. 97 00:04:08,230 --> 00:04:09,870 And so I didn't even I didn't even think 98 00:04:09,910 --> 00:04:11,510 twice about it at all. 99 00:04:11,670 --> 00:04:13,550 And also being a feminist and like, 100 00:04:13,790 --> 00:04:16,030 and I really wanted to keep my name because I 101 00:04:16,150 --> 00:04:18,390 like my name and it felt so much a part of my 102 00:04:18,550 --> 00:04:21,550 identity, plus the legacy of my father, 103 00:04:21,830 --> 00:04:24,470 who had passed away actually about six weeks 104 00:04:24,470 --> 00:04:26,350 before I met my husband. 105 00:04:26,510 --> 00:04:29,390 And so I really wanted to honor my father and 106 00:04:29,390 --> 00:04:31,710 my family, but then also honor my husband. 107 00:04:31,710 --> 00:04:35,390 So my my husband was perfectly happy that I 108 00:04:35,430 --> 00:04:37,390 kept my name. He had no problem with it 109 00:04:37,430 --> 00:04:40,270 whatsoever. But I know from talking with you 110 00:04:40,270 --> 00:04:41,870 that that is unusual. 111 00:04:42,030 --> 00:04:44,230 I think the statistic is pretty high as far 112 00:04:44,230 --> 00:04:46,350 as how many women do indeed take their 113 00:04:46,350 --> 00:04:48,150 husband's name upon marriage. 114 00:04:48,150 --> 00:04:50,150 So can you tell us what that stat is and tell 115 00:04:50,150 --> 00:04:52,390 us about, like, how does this come about and 116 00:04:52,550 --> 00:04:54,700 and what does it take to actually start 117 00:04:54,740 --> 00:04:57,180 having conversations about what name to 118 00:04:57,660 --> 00:04:58,700 decide to go with? 119 00:04:59,260 --> 00:05:00,340 Melania Murphy: Right. Yeah. 120 00:05:00,580 --> 00:05:03,820 So the current statistic and and to tell you 121 00:05:03,820 --> 00:05:05,620 the truth, it's a little bit old. It's the 122 00:05:05,780 --> 00:05:08,460 Pew Research study that was done in 2023, 123 00:05:08,460 --> 00:05:11,060 but it's the one that most people refer back 124 00:05:11,060 --> 00:05:14,660 to. And that is that 80% of women, 125 00:05:15,100 --> 00:05:17,700 you know, even in today's society, 126 00:05:17,740 --> 00:05:20,580 still drop their name and take the husband's 127 00:05:20,620 --> 00:05:24,380 name. And back in the 1970s, 128 00:05:24,460 --> 00:05:27,940 when Ms. Magazine came out and there was that 129 00:05:27,940 --> 00:05:29,860 second wave of feminism and, 130 00:05:30,020 --> 00:05:32,660 and they really started promoting the Ms. 131 00:05:32,700 --> 00:05:35,220 prefix and keeping your maiden name. 132 00:05:35,500 --> 00:05:39,300 In the 70s, 17% of women actually kept their 133 00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:42,500 married name. So we really haven't moved that 134 00:05:42,540 --> 00:05:46,340 mark very far in the last 50 years. 135 00:05:46,660 --> 00:05:52,060 And but there is a small percentage of men 136 00:05:52,100 --> 00:05:54,220 who are now changing their names. 137 00:05:54,220 --> 00:05:55,340 Before it was 0%. 138 00:05:55,380 --> 00:05:59,540 Now it's like 5% of men are willing to either 139 00:05:59,540 --> 00:06:02,340 take their wives name or hyphenate their name 140 00:06:02,340 --> 00:06:05,420 with her name, or create a new name. 141 00:06:05,460 --> 00:06:06,820 You know, both of them together. 142 00:06:07,180 --> 00:06:10,260 So that part of it is shifting a little bit. 143 00:06:10,260 --> 00:06:12,780 And the younger generation, 144 00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:15,540 uh, you know, the 20 and 30 year olds now, 145 00:06:15,900 --> 00:06:19,100 they are very into personalizing their 146 00:06:19,100 --> 00:06:21,220 wedding and looking at all the different 147 00:06:21,220 --> 00:06:24,300 traditions to decide what what tradition 148 00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:25,780 works for them and fits with their 149 00:06:25,780 --> 00:06:27,860 personalities and which ones don't. 150 00:06:27,860 --> 00:06:31,140 So more couples are starting to look at the 151 00:06:31,140 --> 00:06:33,580 tradition of the woman taking the man's name 152 00:06:33,580 --> 00:06:36,740 too. So there are slight shifts, 153 00:06:36,740 --> 00:06:39,140 but in my opinion, not enough yet. 154 00:06:39,780 --> 00:06:43,540 Carol Cox: Well, 80% that that surprises me that it's 155 00:06:43,540 --> 00:06:44,980 still that high. Like you said, not much 156 00:06:44,980 --> 00:06:46,740 movement over the past 50 years. 157 00:06:46,740 --> 00:06:47,940 Why do you think that is? 158 00:06:47,940 --> 00:06:49,860 Why is the default still to take the 159 00:06:49,860 --> 00:06:50,740 husband's name? 160 00:06:51,660 --> 00:06:53,700 Melania Murphy: You know what? I have been surprised at? 161 00:06:53,700 --> 00:06:57,740 How many couples still don't even have a 162 00:06:57,740 --> 00:06:58,860 conversation about it. 163 00:06:58,900 --> 00:07:01,980 It's still just assumed that the woman will 164 00:07:01,980 --> 00:07:03,380 take the man's name. 165 00:07:03,620 --> 00:07:07,380 And unfortunately, it is up to the woman to 166 00:07:07,740 --> 00:07:09,780 to kind of start the conversation and say, 167 00:07:09,780 --> 00:07:11,380 hey, let's let's sit down. 168 00:07:11,380 --> 00:07:13,220 Let's talk about all of our married name 169 00:07:13,220 --> 00:07:14,940 choices and let's, you know, 170 00:07:14,980 --> 00:07:17,140 each look at our names, 171 00:07:17,140 --> 00:07:19,580 what's important to us in our names and what 172 00:07:19,620 --> 00:07:22,500 legacy we want to leave with our names and go 173 00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:27,340 from there. Because the majority of men like 174 00:07:27,340 --> 00:07:29,460 all the men, they're not going to bring it up 175 00:07:29,500 --> 00:07:31,140 there. It's just the way that we've been 176 00:07:31,140 --> 00:07:32,460 raised in our society. 177 00:07:32,540 --> 00:07:36,020 It's still so ingrained in our society that 178 00:07:36,540 --> 00:07:38,900 women drop their name and take on the man's 179 00:07:38,900 --> 00:07:40,060 name. I mean, you know, 180 00:07:40,100 --> 00:07:42,700 you think about it. Even in elementary 181 00:07:42,700 --> 00:07:45,980 school, most of the teachers are women and 182 00:07:45,980 --> 00:07:47,220 most of them are young women. 183 00:07:47,220 --> 00:07:49,140 So even in elementary school, 184 00:07:49,140 --> 00:07:50,420 the kids are learning. 185 00:07:50,420 --> 00:07:52,500 Oh, you know, she's changing her name. 186 00:07:52,500 --> 00:07:54,420 That's that's what happens when they're very 187 00:07:54,420 --> 00:07:56,220 impressionable, when they're nine, 188 00:07:56,220 --> 00:07:57,340 ten, 11 years old. 189 00:07:57,340 --> 00:07:59,220 It's like, oh, that's what happens when you 190 00:07:59,220 --> 00:08:01,180 get married. You know, the woman changes her 191 00:08:01,180 --> 00:08:03,380 name. So and, you know, 192 00:08:03,420 --> 00:08:05,820 in movies, in, in, uh, 193 00:08:06,460 --> 00:08:08,180 just everything that, that we see, 194 00:08:08,220 --> 00:08:10,540 it's still just very assumed that a woman's 195 00:08:10,540 --> 00:08:11,820 going to change her name. 196 00:08:11,820 --> 00:08:14,820 And it's it's like I said, 197 00:08:14,820 --> 00:08:17,100 it's starting to change a little bit, 198 00:08:17,100 --> 00:08:19,660 but, um, I think it's a I think it's an 199 00:08:19,660 --> 00:08:22,500 important topic to really look at from. 200 00:08:22,540 --> 00:08:23,980 It's a very complex tablet, 201 00:08:24,020 --> 00:08:25,980 very personal, very complex topic. 202 00:08:25,980 --> 00:08:27,820 And so digging into that, 203 00:08:27,980 --> 00:08:30,460 it's actually fascinating and it's a lot of 204 00:08:30,460 --> 00:08:30,860 fun. 205 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:34,300 Carol Cox: Well, where did this topic come from for you? 206 00:08:34,340 --> 00:08:36,940 Like, you know why why did why did you decide 207 00:08:36,940 --> 00:08:39,420 that this was the idea that I wanted to build 208 00:08:39,420 --> 00:08:41,660 my message around and write a whole book 209 00:08:41,660 --> 00:08:42,260 about? 210 00:08:43,700 --> 00:08:46,660 Melania Murphy: Yeah, it's, um, you know, 211 00:08:46,740 --> 00:08:48,570 I guess it came from a couple of different 212 00:08:48,570 --> 00:08:50,130 places when I grew up. 213 00:08:50,450 --> 00:08:52,930 My dad passed away when I was, 214 00:08:52,970 --> 00:08:55,370 um, when I was three, and then my mom 215 00:08:55,370 --> 00:08:57,210 remarried when I was seven, 216 00:08:57,370 --> 00:09:01,170 and she dropped her name and took on my 217 00:09:01,170 --> 00:09:05,370 stepfather's name, and we blended a family. 218 00:09:05,370 --> 00:09:07,570 Well, he he had a son who was still living in 219 00:09:07,570 --> 00:09:10,730 the house. So the three of them had one name. 220 00:09:10,730 --> 00:09:13,730 My mom, my stepdad and my stepson are my 221 00:09:13,730 --> 00:09:17,010 stepbrother. And then my siblings and I, 222 00:09:17,050 --> 00:09:18,290 we had a different name. 223 00:09:18,290 --> 00:09:20,170 So it just kind of it's like, 224 00:09:20,250 --> 00:09:21,650 well, that's just the way it is, 225 00:09:21,690 --> 00:09:23,450 you know? And for a while we were living with 226 00:09:23,450 --> 00:09:25,970 my grandma, who she had a different last name 227 00:09:25,970 --> 00:09:28,490 too. So to me, I just kind of grew up with 228 00:09:28,490 --> 00:09:29,850 the notion that, you know, 229 00:09:29,850 --> 00:09:31,530 what a family it does. 230 00:09:31,570 --> 00:09:33,810 We don't all have to have the same last name 231 00:09:33,810 --> 00:09:36,490 to be a family. And then to as I, 232 00:09:37,210 --> 00:09:39,530 uh, as I studied, I went to college. 233 00:09:39,530 --> 00:09:41,770 I got a degree in applied behavioral science. 234 00:09:41,770 --> 00:09:44,250 So that's really looking at the relationship 235 00:09:44,250 --> 00:09:46,610 of people and how people interact with each 236 00:09:46,770 --> 00:09:50,490 other, and it was just really interesting to 237 00:09:50,530 --> 00:09:52,970 me how this tradition. 238 00:09:53,010 --> 00:09:56,050 It's still it's still like there's a sheet 239 00:09:56,050 --> 00:09:59,130 over people's eyes and they they just don't 240 00:09:59,130 --> 00:10:01,490 see any other options or any other 241 00:10:01,530 --> 00:10:02,890 possibilities. 242 00:10:02,890 --> 00:10:05,810 So I, you know, started digging into that and 243 00:10:05,810 --> 00:10:06,970 trying to find out why. 244 00:10:06,970 --> 00:10:09,650 Why are people still hanging on to this 245 00:10:09,650 --> 00:10:11,530 tradition so strongly and, 246 00:10:11,570 --> 00:10:13,530 and what does it mean to our society. 247 00:10:14,970 --> 00:10:17,650 Carol Cox: And what without giving away too much of the 248 00:10:17,650 --> 00:10:19,410 book, because we want listeners to go buy the 249 00:10:19,410 --> 00:10:21,250 book, what are some of the reasons what that 250 00:10:21,250 --> 00:10:23,210 you discovered from your research and from 251 00:10:23,210 --> 00:10:26,930 talking to people as far as either why they 252 00:10:26,970 --> 00:10:28,530 just didn't even think about having the 253 00:10:28,530 --> 00:10:30,010 conversation in the first place. 254 00:10:30,010 --> 00:10:31,930 But even if they did think about it, 255 00:10:31,970 --> 00:10:33,210 why it was still, you know, 256 00:10:33,250 --> 00:10:36,490 80% of women drop their name and take their 257 00:10:36,490 --> 00:10:37,290 husband's name. 258 00:10:37,930 --> 00:10:40,370 Melania Murphy: Mhm. So like I mentioned before, 259 00:10:40,410 --> 00:10:43,970 it's just so ingrained in our society way 260 00:10:43,970 --> 00:10:46,370 back hundreds of years ago when, 261 00:10:46,690 --> 00:10:48,450 you know, our founding fathers, 262 00:10:48,930 --> 00:10:50,210 you know, came over from, 263 00:10:50,330 --> 00:10:53,330 um, and brought over the the British laws, 264 00:10:53,370 --> 00:10:56,010 they brought over the law of coverture, 265 00:10:56,050 --> 00:10:58,810 which means that a woman, 266 00:10:59,050 --> 00:11:01,410 um, you know, she goes from her father's 267 00:11:01,410 --> 00:11:03,930 responsibility, financial safety, 268 00:11:03,970 --> 00:11:06,050 security, all that kind of stuff to her 269 00:11:06,050 --> 00:11:07,650 husband's responsibility. 270 00:11:07,650 --> 00:11:09,690 And so she's covered, you know, 271 00:11:09,730 --> 00:11:11,650 from one man to the next man. 272 00:11:12,530 --> 00:11:17,330 And, uh, but those coverture laws also also 273 00:11:17,530 --> 00:11:19,970 said that it was the man who needed to now 274 00:11:19,970 --> 00:11:22,570 her husband, protect his wife. 275 00:11:22,730 --> 00:11:24,770 But that also meant she didn't have any 276 00:11:24,770 --> 00:11:27,090 financial, um, rights, 277 00:11:27,090 --> 00:11:29,130 any any rights to her body. 278 00:11:29,130 --> 00:11:30,570 And he and he writes to her, 279 00:11:30,610 --> 00:11:32,050 her children, you know, 280 00:11:32,450 --> 00:11:35,890 any of that. So as, as those laws came over 281 00:11:35,890 --> 00:11:37,930 to what is now the United States, 282 00:11:39,330 --> 00:11:42,690 um, it the tradition continued. 283 00:11:42,690 --> 00:11:45,080 And it wasn't until, well, 284 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,400 way back in 1855. 285 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,120 That's when the first lady is. 286 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:51,680 Her name is Lucy Stone. 287 00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:54,080 She was acknowledged as the first woman to 288 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,800 keep her maiden name when she got married. 289 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,400 And it was a big deal, 290 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,200 you know. But it was because her husband, 291 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:02,320 too, was very. 292 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:05,640 He he he was a feminist. 293 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,200 And in that he felt that he and his wife were 294 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:09,280 equal partners. 295 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,000 And so he felt that they she didn't have to 296 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,920 give up her job. She didn't have to give up 297 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:16,200 her career in his eyes, 298 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,360 because in society, in law size, 299 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,800 they she would have to do that once she got 300 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,600 married. So and then in the, 301 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:25,120 you know, of course, in 19, 302 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,200 in 1920 we got the right to vote. 303 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,600 And but it really was in the 1960s that the 304 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,800 women and men started breaking down some of 305 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,640 these laws that were holding us, 306 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:38,680 holding us trapped in coverture. 307 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:40,040 There are still, you know, 308 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,520 kind of remnants or ghosts of coverture today 309 00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:44,880 out there still. But you know, 310 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,320 but the laws were really holding us back. 311 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,320 And then once the laws were abolished, 312 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,960 it was still it was still just the way that 313 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:54,440 you did things in society. 314 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,280 And it took a long time to change. 315 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,920 Carol Cox: You're right. I still blows my mind that only 316 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,320 50 years ago. 317 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,480 So, you know, my mother's generation, 318 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,800 women could not open a bank account in their 319 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,520 own name without their fathers or husbands 320 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,480 approval. Get a mortgage, 321 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:13,560 get a credit card. 322 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:15,360 All these things that we take for granted, 323 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,160 which provides us with that sense of economic 324 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,640 independence, weren't even legally possible 325 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:21,200 for them. 326 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,360 Melania Murphy: Right, right. And it wasn't until 1983 that 327 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,400 the last of the 50 states it was Alabama, 328 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,520 had took the law off their book that a woman 329 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,280 must take the man's name when she gets 330 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,120 married. So 1983, there were still in there 331 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:39,320 were all 50 states. 332 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,200 You couldn't just choose whatever name you 333 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,040 wanted to. You still had to take the man's 334 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,640 name. So it's. 335 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:47,960 And it wasn't it wasn't always. 336 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,720 You know, women have to take the man's name, 337 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,240 but it was like you said, 338 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,000 if you don't have your husband, 339 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,360 if you're married and you don't have your 340 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,000 husband's name, you can't get a voter's 341 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,520 registration card, you can't open a credit 342 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,600 card, you can't do all these other things 343 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,240 because you're married and you don't have his 344 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,800 name. So, you know, the laws are kind of it, 345 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,200 didn't they? 346 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,760 Most of them didn't specifically say you must 347 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,680 take his name, but basically you can't do 348 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:15,800 anything unless you do. 349 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,760 Carol Cox: Okay. So that now that makes a little bit 350 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:20,960 more sense why the number is still so high at 351 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,320 80%, because it really wasn't until Gen X, 352 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,280 like my generation, generation X, 353 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,360 and now millennials, who are really the first 354 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,800 generations to legally not even be required 355 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:33,600 to have to do that. And of course we know 356 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:34,920 that. Yeah. 357 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:35,400 Go ahead. 358 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,240 Melania Murphy: Right. A lot of laws or a lot of states, 359 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,840 the laws off the books much earlier. 360 00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:41,990 But, you know, there was still the the lone 361 00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:44,390 holdout, Alabama, in 1983. 362 00:14:44,430 --> 00:14:46,390 It was still a law there. 363 00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:50,710 Carol Cox: And it takes a while for culture to catch up 364 00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:52,430 with law. So just because the laws have 365 00:14:52,430 --> 00:14:54,510 changed doesn't mean that the way people 366 00:14:54,510 --> 00:14:56,110 think about things or the way that their 367 00:14:56,110 --> 00:14:59,150 families expect them to do things necessarily 368 00:14:59,150 --> 00:15:01,830 change. So in conversations you've had with 369 00:15:01,830 --> 00:15:04,310 both women and men, what are some things that 370 00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:07,470 come up that they have shared with you as far 371 00:15:07,470 --> 00:15:11,510 as maybe some doubts or uncertainties about 372 00:15:11,790 --> 00:15:13,230 what what name to take? 373 00:15:15,150 --> 00:15:16,950 Melania Murphy: It's interesting. I just read an article 374 00:15:16,950 --> 00:15:19,030 today from the Washington Post. 375 00:15:19,030 --> 00:15:21,030 There's a a columnist, 376 00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:24,830 Carolyn Hax, and a mother wrote in and she 377 00:15:24,830 --> 00:15:27,070 said that, you know, when she and her husband 378 00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:29,950 got married, they they both chose to keep 379 00:15:29,950 --> 00:15:31,630 their their birth names, 380 00:15:31,630 --> 00:15:32,910 their birth last names, 381 00:15:32,910 --> 00:15:35,510 but now they're having a child together. 382 00:15:35,510 --> 00:15:37,870 And so, you know, the mother says, 383 00:15:37,870 --> 00:15:41,990 I want my name to be in my our child's name 384 00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:46,110 too. And and a lot of. 385 00:15:46,150 --> 00:15:48,550 So the husband said, well, how about we give 386 00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:50,870 the child my last name, 387 00:15:50,910 --> 00:15:53,670 you know, his name. And for the middle name 388 00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:55,750 it could be your, you know, 389 00:15:55,790 --> 00:15:56,990 birth surname. 390 00:15:57,150 --> 00:15:58,350 And she's like, well, no, 391 00:15:58,670 --> 00:16:02,350 that's still that's still the past tradition. 392 00:16:02,390 --> 00:16:05,030 You know, that's still like putting me second 393 00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:07,510 or that's still not equal. 394 00:16:07,550 --> 00:16:09,710 Like our names, our ancestry, 395 00:16:09,750 --> 00:16:11,750 our identity were were equal. 396 00:16:11,750 --> 00:16:14,110 So, you know, I really feel it's important 397 00:16:14,110 --> 00:16:17,110 that we hyphenate our name or come up with a 398 00:16:17,430 --> 00:16:19,270 new name combining our two names. 399 00:16:19,270 --> 00:16:21,750 So our child has that name, 400 00:16:22,030 --> 00:16:23,470 and, you know, she's like, 401 00:16:23,470 --> 00:16:24,670 well, if you want, you know, 402 00:16:26,190 --> 00:16:28,110 if we really want a child to have just one 403 00:16:28,110 --> 00:16:30,510 last name, how about we give the child my 404 00:16:30,510 --> 00:16:31,630 name, the mother's name, 405 00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:34,670 and we give the middle name, 406 00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:37,870 your name as a middle name to the child And, 407 00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:40,190 you know, people are still just kind of like, 408 00:16:40,190 --> 00:16:42,710 wait, that's not how it's done. 409 00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:44,110 That doesn't seem fair. 410 00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:45,310 That doesn't, you know, 411 00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:47,630 when you kind of reverse it or flip it, 412 00:16:48,990 --> 00:16:51,310 it becomes a little bit more obvious how 413 00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:52,630 unfair it is. 414 00:16:52,630 --> 00:16:56,110 But because this is just the way it's been 415 00:16:56,110 --> 00:16:59,070 for so long, you know, 416 00:16:59,110 --> 00:17:00,830 women just kind of grow up thinking, well, I 417 00:17:00,830 --> 00:17:02,310 guess that's what I'll have to do. 418 00:17:02,670 --> 00:17:04,910 And that's what my book is really what I want 419 00:17:04,950 --> 00:17:06,190 to get across in here, 420 00:17:06,190 --> 00:17:09,830 that I want women to feel empowered to say 421 00:17:09,830 --> 00:17:12,150 no, my name, my identity, 422 00:17:12,190 --> 00:17:15,470 my ancestry is just as important as yours. 423 00:17:15,630 --> 00:17:18,430 Let's. And this isn't a power struggle on 424 00:17:18,430 --> 00:17:19,750 either side. It's just like, 425 00:17:20,470 --> 00:17:22,230 let's sit down and discuss all of our 426 00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:24,110 options. How are we going to handle this? 427 00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:26,470 It's like saying, do we want to go to, 428 00:17:26,510 --> 00:17:28,630 uh, I don't know, New Mexico, 429 00:17:28,670 --> 00:17:30,470 not New Mexico. Nobody goes there for a 430 00:17:30,470 --> 00:17:32,950 honeymoon, but go to Europe for a honeymoon 431 00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:34,750 or go to Hawaii. 432 00:17:34,790 --> 00:17:38,060 You know, it's not like one is right and one 433 00:17:38,060 --> 00:17:40,460 is wrong. It's just two people having 434 00:17:40,460 --> 00:17:42,820 different opinions. And how are we going to 435 00:17:42,980 --> 00:17:44,820 settle this situation? 436 00:17:44,860 --> 00:17:47,860 Of course, with the tradition of the 437 00:17:47,860 --> 00:17:50,940 surnames, it gets a lot more complex because 438 00:17:50,940 --> 00:17:53,460 there's a lot of more a lot more cultural 439 00:17:54,140 --> 00:17:55,700 significance to it. 440 00:17:56,180 --> 00:17:57,660 And it does, you know, 441 00:17:59,220 --> 00:18:01,260 it does go back to the whole patriarchal 442 00:18:01,540 --> 00:18:03,500 system. You know, it goes back to the 443 00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:06,100 coverture. It that's just the way it is. 444 00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:09,220 But a lot of those, those laws have all 445 00:18:09,220 --> 00:18:11,180 changed. Our society has changed. 446 00:18:11,220 --> 00:18:14,820 You know, when my mom got married in 1959, 447 00:18:14,980 --> 00:18:18,780 she's not the same kind of couple who is 448 00:18:18,780 --> 00:18:19,900 getting married now. 449 00:18:20,060 --> 00:18:22,500 You know, she didn't have a college degree. 450 00:18:22,540 --> 00:18:25,860 She was very dependent on my dad for 451 00:18:25,860 --> 00:18:27,220 financially, you know, 452 00:18:27,260 --> 00:18:29,140 and again, the laws, she couldn't get a 453 00:18:29,140 --> 00:18:31,780 credit card. I do tell the story in the book 454 00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:34,820 that and I can tell this one story that, 455 00:18:35,020 --> 00:18:36,940 um, so like I mentioned, 456 00:18:36,940 --> 00:18:38,780 my dad passed away when I was three, 457 00:18:38,780 --> 00:18:41,860 so here she is. She's got three young kids, 458 00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:43,940 you know, under the age of four, 459 00:18:44,260 --> 00:18:47,020 and she's pregnant with her fourth child, 460 00:18:47,020 --> 00:18:49,740 and now she's a widow and she's trying to, 461 00:18:49,780 --> 00:18:52,300 you know, maneuver, trying to figure out how 462 00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:54,260 am I going to survive, how am I going to move 463 00:18:54,260 --> 00:18:56,780 forward? So she does go to get her own credit 464 00:18:56,780 --> 00:18:59,260 card. And they said, you're you're 465 00:18:59,300 --> 00:19:00,900 technically you're married, 466 00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:03,780 so you need to have your husband's name on 467 00:19:03,780 --> 00:19:05,700 the credit card to get the credit card. 468 00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:07,580 And she's like, um, but he's dead. 469 00:19:07,620 --> 00:19:09,460 You know, he he just passed away, 470 00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:10,820 you know, and they're like, 471 00:19:10,860 --> 00:19:13,220 well, just sign his name on here. 472 00:19:13,220 --> 00:19:16,300 So she she literally had to sign my, 473 00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:19,220 my deceased father's name on the credit card 474 00:19:19,260 --> 00:19:21,980 application so she could get a credit card, 475 00:19:22,660 --> 00:19:25,420 you know? So, um, those kind of laws have 476 00:19:25,420 --> 00:19:26,500 changed luckily. 477 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:29,580 And so I mean, the the couples who are 478 00:19:29,580 --> 00:19:31,900 marrying now are, you know, 479 00:19:31,940 --> 00:19:33,500 they're more they're more equal. 480 00:19:33,540 --> 00:19:35,380 A lot of them bring in financially. 481 00:19:35,380 --> 00:19:37,100 They bring in the same amount. 482 00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:39,740 I know for a time I was the breadwinner. 483 00:19:39,740 --> 00:19:41,500 For a time my husband was breadwinner. You 484 00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:43,140 know, it kind of goes back and forth. You 485 00:19:43,140 --> 00:19:45,180 know, we make decisions together. 486 00:19:45,220 --> 00:19:47,660 We. It's not father's no knows best. 487 00:19:47,660 --> 00:19:49,100 And it stops with the father. 488 00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:51,220 It's it's an equal partnership. 489 00:19:51,220 --> 00:19:54,420 And and a lot of couples want their name to 490 00:19:54,460 --> 00:19:55,660 represent that, too. 491 00:19:56,740 --> 00:19:59,100 Carol Cox: Well, I think what's important about this 492 00:19:59,100 --> 00:20:03,380 message is that is is so that both the women 493 00:20:03,380 --> 00:20:06,500 and men know that this is a conversation 494 00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:09,580 worth having versus just assuming that this 495 00:20:09,580 --> 00:20:12,580 is the way it's going to be and literally not 496 00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:14,300 not even either crossing their mind, 497 00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:16,900 or perhaps for the woman to be a little bit 498 00:20:16,940 --> 00:20:19,620 hesitant to bring it up because she doesn't 499 00:20:19,620 --> 00:20:21,500 have she hasn't read your book yet and she 500 00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:23,420 doesn't, you know, have this kind of the 501 00:20:23,460 --> 00:20:25,420 research and the background and the history 502 00:20:25,420 --> 00:20:27,380 to know, like, why, why is this the default 503 00:20:27,380 --> 00:20:29,020 and what are some other options. So that's 504 00:20:29,020 --> 00:20:30,980 why I'm glad that you're putting this work 505 00:20:31,020 --> 00:20:33,700 out. So let's talk a little bit about why you 506 00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:36,580 decided that now was the time in your life 507 00:20:36,580 --> 00:20:39,340 that you wanted to really work on this. 508 00:20:39,340 --> 00:20:40,780 So as I mentioned in the intro, 509 00:20:40,780 --> 00:20:42,700 you joined our Thought Leader Academy in 510 00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:44,380 August of 2024. 511 00:20:44,740 --> 00:20:47,300 And so that so I think you had been working 512 00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:50,660 with our book coach Tiffany Hawk before, 513 00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:53,180 then found out about me and speaking your 514 00:20:53,180 --> 00:20:55,020 brand from Tiffany and decided to join our 515 00:20:55,020 --> 00:20:56,660 Thought Leader Academy. So tell us a little 516 00:20:56,660 --> 00:20:58,740 bit about your journey to decide. 517 00:20:58,780 --> 00:21:00,300 Okay, now is the time that I want to put all 518 00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:01,100 this together. 519 00:21:02,660 --> 00:21:04,980 Melania Murphy: Well, actually, now wasn't the time like five 520 00:21:05,020 --> 00:21:06,260 years ago was the time. 521 00:21:06,260 --> 00:21:08,940 But I didn't have all the tools and the 522 00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:12,340 resources and the expert coaching advice, 523 00:21:12,780 --> 00:21:15,380 advice of you and Tiffany that I found along 524 00:21:15,380 --> 00:21:17,780 the way. So I think, like a lot of people 525 00:21:17,780 --> 00:21:20,620 during the pandemic, having time at home, 526 00:21:20,940 --> 00:21:25,620 um, I know my, uh, what I did with when I 527 00:21:25,620 --> 00:21:27,660 found more free time is to start working on 528 00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:29,140 my book and like, you know what? 529 00:21:29,180 --> 00:21:32,090 This, this thought, this idea has been 530 00:21:32,090 --> 00:21:33,530 lingering around for a while, 531 00:21:33,530 --> 00:21:37,050 and 2020 was the year that I started to 532 00:21:37,210 --> 00:21:38,970 figure out, well, how do I even go about 533 00:21:38,970 --> 00:21:41,130 writing a book? And, um, 534 00:21:41,170 --> 00:21:42,570 you know, of course, there's a lot of 535 00:21:42,570 --> 00:21:43,890 resources out there. 536 00:21:43,890 --> 00:21:47,250 I went with, um, hay House and they had a I 537 00:21:47,250 --> 00:21:49,210 think it was a three day boot camp. 538 00:21:49,250 --> 00:21:50,530 Of course, it was free. 539 00:21:50,530 --> 00:21:52,370 And of course, you know, I wanted to do all 540 00:21:52,370 --> 00:21:53,530 the free stuff, you know, 541 00:21:53,570 --> 00:21:55,690 because it adds up quickly. 542 00:21:55,890 --> 00:21:59,050 So I, I took their course and it kind of 543 00:21:59,090 --> 00:22:01,170 broke down, you know. 544 00:22:01,210 --> 00:22:02,370 Who's your audience? 545 00:22:02,370 --> 00:22:03,690 What's a hook? You know, 546 00:22:03,730 --> 00:22:07,210 all the very basic things of of what you need 547 00:22:07,210 --> 00:22:08,650 to know to write a book. 548 00:22:08,890 --> 00:22:11,890 And so then I created my book proposal, 549 00:22:12,450 --> 00:22:14,610 and then I kind of graduated from the hay 550 00:22:14,650 --> 00:22:17,090 House group to another group that was really 551 00:22:17,090 --> 00:22:20,650 into creating the book proposal and your 552 00:22:20,650 --> 00:22:23,450 cover letter, because you need the book. 553 00:22:23,690 --> 00:22:24,890 Mine is nonfiction. 554 00:22:24,890 --> 00:22:26,170 So for a nonfiction book, 555 00:22:26,570 --> 00:22:29,490 you don't write the book ahead of time. 556 00:22:29,490 --> 00:22:32,250 You write the proposal and then you write, 557 00:22:32,290 --> 00:22:35,890 like sample chapters, and then you need to 558 00:22:35,890 --> 00:22:39,050 find an agent, and then the agent helps you 559 00:22:39,050 --> 00:22:41,770 find a publisher if you go that traditional 560 00:22:41,770 --> 00:22:44,450 route. So that's where I started putting all 561 00:22:44,450 --> 00:22:48,690 my focus into is trying to get an agent and, 562 00:22:48,850 --> 00:22:50,610 uh, get a publisher. 563 00:22:50,850 --> 00:22:54,130 And as I went through that process, 564 00:22:54,410 --> 00:22:57,850 I kept getting the same response that my 565 00:22:57,890 --> 00:23:01,570 topic was more of a magazine article. 566 00:23:01,570 --> 00:23:03,650 It wasn't worth a whole book, 567 00:23:04,090 --> 00:23:05,810 which I obviously disagree. 568 00:23:05,850 --> 00:23:08,890 So I, you know, and about that time, 569 00:23:08,890 --> 00:23:10,450 that's when I found Tiffany. 570 00:23:10,890 --> 00:23:14,890 And so she, you know, helped me along with 571 00:23:14,890 --> 00:23:16,570 everybody else in, in her, 572 00:23:16,610 --> 00:23:20,010 uh, course that we're taking to develop the 573 00:23:20,050 --> 00:23:21,970 book proposal and then the platform. 574 00:23:21,970 --> 00:23:23,770 And again, a lot of people think the platform 575 00:23:23,770 --> 00:23:25,290 has to be just social media, 576 00:23:25,290 --> 00:23:26,890 but there's a lot of other, 577 00:23:27,770 --> 00:23:29,650 ways to build your platform. 578 00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:34,250 And one was, um, getting bylines in articles. 579 00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:35,730 So I started doing that, 580 00:23:35,770 --> 00:23:38,210 started getting articles published. 581 00:23:38,570 --> 00:23:41,050 And that was that was a great journey. 582 00:23:41,090 --> 00:23:43,850 It's so fun to see your have a byline in like 583 00:23:43,890 --> 00:23:46,290 HuffPost or today or, you know, 584 00:23:46,330 --> 00:23:47,530 some of those other things. 585 00:23:47,850 --> 00:23:49,370 And then, um, you know, 586 00:23:49,410 --> 00:23:51,050 being guests on podcasts. 587 00:23:51,050 --> 00:23:52,530 So thank you for this. 588 00:23:52,530 --> 00:23:54,370 And, you know, and I kind of, 589 00:23:54,770 --> 00:23:57,210 again, sort of finding my voice through these 590 00:23:57,210 --> 00:23:59,730 podcasts too, and start talking about my 591 00:23:59,730 --> 00:24:02,010 book. So that was that was a great thing too. 592 00:24:02,170 --> 00:24:04,730 And through that, uh, that journey, 593 00:24:04,730 --> 00:24:07,810 then I found you and it was about trying to 594 00:24:08,450 --> 00:24:10,890 again talk about my book and get out there in 595 00:24:10,890 --> 00:24:13,610 front of people. I'm talking in front of 596 00:24:13,610 --> 00:24:15,810 people is not my favorite thing. 597 00:24:15,810 --> 00:24:17,730 So. But going through your course, 598 00:24:17,730 --> 00:24:20,450 oh my gosh, I gained so much confidence. 599 00:24:20,450 --> 00:24:21,850 And I thought, you know, 600 00:24:21,890 --> 00:24:23,890 I thought it was all about creating a 601 00:24:23,890 --> 00:24:26,560 PowerPoint and being very organized and just 602 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,200 going through my PowerPoint. 603 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,240 And when you told us to get up on stage and 604 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,320 just tell a story without any notes or 605 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:33,880 anything, I'm like, oh my God, 606 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,000 then what have I gotten myself into? 607 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,120 But it was it was great. 608 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:41,040 I was I was just so amazed with myself that I 609 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:42,120 could actually do that. 610 00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:43,680 I could get up there and I could tell a 611 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,360 story. And so when I did, 612 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,000 when then when I started giving my talks and 613 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,120 it was, I didn't even use the PowerPoint, 614 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:52,280 it was just like, okay, 615 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:53,680 I want to talk about this, 616 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,560 and then I want to tell this story and then I 617 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:56,960 want to talk about this, 618 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,760 you know, just like you taught us. But then 619 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,200 creating that signature talk that you and 620 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,320 Diane helped me create the signature talk and 621 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:10,040 just putting it in that organized structure 622 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,680 and kind of knowing what audiences want and 623 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,640 filling in the stories, 624 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:17,720 filling in the research, 625 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,640 filling in all the information that I've 626 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,640 already gathered and researched, 627 00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:26,240 it just all started clicking together and 628 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,240 then I, uh, you know, so again, 629 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,560 I'm like, well, I guess I just need to to 630 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,120 just sit down and write this thing. 631 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:35,440 But to me, it was it was kind of boring 632 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,280 because it was coming from my logical brain, 633 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,120 kind of like, well, here you need to know 634 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:41,840 about the laws first, and then you need to 635 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,360 know about the history, and then you need to 636 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:46,600 know about this. But then it clicked that, 637 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,880 oh, I could just take this signature talk, 638 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,280 and that could be the structure of my book. 639 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,800 And it's, you know, set in a way that it's 640 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,400 it's geared to the audience. 641 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,440 What does the audience need and what are they 642 00:25:58,480 --> 00:25:59,640 going to react to? 643 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,240 And that's how I came up with a book. 644 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,600 Carol Cox: Oh, I love hearing that because that's, 645 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,080 you know, that is how I think about the 646 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,480 signature talk that it really because it 647 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,400 follows narrative structure, 648 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,800 you know, three acts based on traditional 649 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,640 storytelling structure, 650 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,120 but that kind of but with more of like a 651 00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:22,320 psychological marketing perspective, 652 00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:24,080 right. For the audience because we're not 653 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:25,520 doing a fictional novel, 654 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:26,960 but it's more like, what does the audience 655 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,480 need to know to buy in to this idea, 656 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,680 to get them to want to learn more and how it 657 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:32,600 applies to them? 658 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,520 Melania Murphy: Yes. Yes. And I wanted it to be entertaining. 659 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,760 I didn't, you know, my target audience is 660 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,080 brides to be. I you know, 661 00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:43,120 I would love for every bride to just put on 662 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,520 their wedding to do checklist, 663 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,600 you know, discuss married names because I'm 664 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:49,760 still finding, you know, 665 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,840 talking to people, reading articles that 666 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,600 they're like, yeah, we didn't really decide. 667 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,760 And but now later on, you know, 668 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,560 when it comes to changing the name on the 669 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,600 paperwork, you know, a lot of brides are 670 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:02,840 still like, I don't know, 671 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,680 I just don't I'm not sure. 672 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,320 And and so some guys, it just, 673 00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:09,360 you know, obviously it kind of takes them 674 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:11,200 back. They think they think they're going 675 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,240 down this road that she's going to take his 676 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,760 name. And they haven't talked about it 677 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,800 really. And then after the fact after they're 678 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,720 married they're like, wait a minute. 679 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,070 This is not kind of a deal breaker, 680 00:27:23,070 --> 00:27:25,550 but like, we should have discussed this ahead 681 00:27:25,550 --> 00:27:27,510 of time. We should have discussed. 682 00:27:27,950 --> 00:27:29,310 And if you're going to keep your name, how 683 00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:31,310 are we going to name our children? You know, 684 00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:33,550 because these are important things. 685 00:27:33,550 --> 00:27:35,870 So I just love that, um, 686 00:27:36,150 --> 00:27:38,630 you know, brides are I've had, 687 00:27:38,670 --> 00:27:40,910 you know, advanced readers and the brides are 688 00:27:40,910 --> 00:27:42,110 like, yeah, you know what? 689 00:27:42,110 --> 00:27:45,710 I, I can see now why this is so important for 690 00:27:45,710 --> 00:27:50,470 me to figure out what I want and stand up for 691 00:27:50,510 --> 00:27:52,790 myself, you know, and and again, 692 00:27:52,790 --> 00:27:55,310 it's not a power struggle between the husband 693 00:27:55,310 --> 00:27:57,830 and the wife. It's it's just the the 694 00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:59,950 acknowledgement of what you want, 695 00:27:59,990 --> 00:28:03,750 what a woman wants and learning how to have 696 00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:05,910 that conversation with him. 697 00:28:05,910 --> 00:28:07,230 So, um, you know. 698 00:28:07,270 --> 00:28:09,230 Yeah. So it is it's a quick book. 699 00:28:09,270 --> 00:28:12,750 It's only, uh, it's 112 pages, 700 00:28:12,750 --> 00:28:14,230 but it's for the brides to be. 701 00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:15,870 And they're they're busy right now. 702 00:28:15,910 --> 00:28:19,190 They're, you know, what they're planning and 703 00:28:19,190 --> 00:28:20,870 they're researching and there, 704 00:28:20,910 --> 00:28:22,230 you know, everything else. 705 00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:24,950 So I didn't want this to be a really heavy 706 00:28:25,870 --> 00:28:27,110 academic book. 707 00:28:27,150 --> 00:28:29,790 It's more fun and it's fast paced. 708 00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:31,590 The people who have read it have said, 709 00:28:31,630 --> 00:28:33,390 you know, they're like, oh, wow, I started 710 00:28:33,390 --> 00:28:34,950 reading it and I couldn't put it down, you 711 00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:37,030 know? So a lot of people there, 712 00:28:37,070 --> 00:28:38,870 you know, they read it in a weekend or 713 00:28:39,030 --> 00:28:42,230 something because it's just it keeps moving, 714 00:28:42,270 --> 00:28:45,150 you know, and um, they, 715 00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:46,830 they find it really interesting. 716 00:28:47,550 --> 00:28:49,470 Carol Cox: Well, I'm one of the advanced readers because 717 00:28:49,470 --> 00:28:51,910 I'm on your street team to help you out. 718 00:28:51,950 --> 00:28:54,910 Hence, you know, doing this podcast episode, 719 00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:56,390 pre-ordering your book, 720 00:28:56,390 --> 00:28:58,270 reading your book so that I can put a review 721 00:28:58,270 --> 00:29:00,070 on Amazon when it gets published. 722 00:29:00,070 --> 00:29:01,990 Which publication date is March 1st, 723 00:29:02,030 --> 00:29:04,750 2026? So for those of you listening, 724 00:29:04,790 --> 00:29:07,110 make sure to pre-order the book if it's prior 725 00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:08,910 to March 1st. When you're listening to this, 726 00:29:09,070 --> 00:29:10,670 the link is in the show notes, and if it's 727 00:29:10,670 --> 00:29:13,510 March 1st or later, go ahead and you can get 728 00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:15,390 the copy and start reading today and we'll 729 00:29:15,390 --> 00:29:16,710 give you the links and again in the show 730 00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:18,470 notes and here in just a moment. 731 00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:20,830 But So I want to chat with you a little bit 732 00:29:20,830 --> 00:29:23,030 about the publishing process and now about 733 00:29:23,030 --> 00:29:25,230 the promotion process for the books. 734 00:29:25,230 --> 00:29:26,950 I think this would be helpful to people 735 00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:28,950 listening who maybe want to do something 736 00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:32,270 similar. So you mentioned that if you if 737 00:29:32,270 --> 00:29:34,030 someone wants to go down the what is called 738 00:29:34,030 --> 00:29:36,150 the traditional publishing route, 739 00:29:36,190 --> 00:29:38,830 they're probably going with one of the top 740 00:29:38,910 --> 00:29:40,230 big five publishers. 741 00:29:40,270 --> 00:29:41,990 You know, it's a longer process. You need an 742 00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:44,150 agent and an editor, and then you got to kind 743 00:29:44,150 --> 00:29:46,830 of pitch the book idea with the book proposal 744 00:29:46,870 --> 00:29:48,430 to the publisher, get selected. 745 00:29:48,430 --> 00:29:49,430 So that's, you know, that's the whole thing. 746 00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:51,990 And there's definitely a time and place for 747 00:29:52,030 --> 00:29:54,470 that. And I also feel like there's also a 748 00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:57,030 good publishing route that is better than 749 00:29:57,030 --> 00:29:59,710 just trying to figure it out and DIY it 750 00:29:59,710 --> 00:30:02,830 yourself. But instead of hiring a publisher 751 00:30:02,830 --> 00:30:04,510 to help you with that, so can you tell us 752 00:30:04,510 --> 00:30:06,870 about how that process worked? 753 00:30:07,670 --> 00:30:10,470 Melania Murphy: Yeah, that's the route that I decided to go 754 00:30:10,510 --> 00:30:14,390 with because I was I did get involved with a 755 00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:17,350 two other women, um, probably like in March 756 00:30:17,540 --> 00:30:20,620 And again, we all wanted to get our book 757 00:30:20,620 --> 00:30:23,500 done. So we're our accountability partners 758 00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:26,420 and but both of them had businesses, 759 00:30:27,020 --> 00:30:29,300 so they wanted this book to, 760 00:30:29,620 --> 00:30:32,380 um, provide credibility for their business 761 00:30:32,380 --> 00:30:35,500 and to kind of maybe use it to promote their 762 00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:39,100 business. So they had a different, 763 00:30:39,140 --> 00:30:42,780 um, a different reason for their book. 764 00:30:42,860 --> 00:30:47,180 And so they decided to go more the Amazon 765 00:30:47,180 --> 00:30:49,380 route. So they were able to just put it on 766 00:30:49,380 --> 00:30:52,420 Amazon. And then Amazon does, 767 00:30:52,540 --> 00:30:55,620 um, uh, print on demand orders. 768 00:30:55,820 --> 00:30:58,100 And so they did their own editing. 769 00:30:58,100 --> 00:30:59,780 They did their own cover, 770 00:30:59,780 --> 00:31:01,620 and they went that route. 771 00:31:01,620 --> 00:31:04,940 I decided to hire a publisher because, 772 00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:08,900 um, my, this may be my only book. 773 00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:11,140 I don't know, but it's something that has 774 00:31:11,140 --> 00:31:14,380 been near and dear to me for so long that I 775 00:31:14,380 --> 00:31:16,980 really wanted it to look professional and 776 00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:20,140 really be clean and polished and something I 777 00:31:20,140 --> 00:31:21,660 could really, really be proud of. 778 00:31:21,900 --> 00:31:23,500 So I hired a publisher, 779 00:31:24,060 --> 00:31:26,460 um, and they helped me. 780 00:31:26,540 --> 00:31:28,620 Uh, they created the cover design, 781 00:31:28,620 --> 00:31:29,980 but again, it was back and forth. 782 00:31:29,980 --> 00:31:31,340 They said right off the bat, 783 00:31:31,380 --> 00:31:32,900 you are the publisher. 784 00:31:33,060 --> 00:31:35,300 We're just here to help you out, 785 00:31:35,340 --> 00:31:37,460 you know? But but they didn't. 786 00:31:37,700 --> 00:31:38,900 They didn't hold my hand. 787 00:31:38,940 --> 00:31:40,260 They weren't like, you know. 788 00:31:40,300 --> 00:31:42,340 Okay, Melanie, now, today we're going to do 789 00:31:42,340 --> 00:31:44,300 this. You know, they kind of expected me to 790 00:31:44,340 --> 00:31:45,900 do all that research and everything, 791 00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:48,060 but they designed my cover. 792 00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:50,780 We did multiple rounds of editing with a 793 00:31:50,780 --> 00:31:52,020 professional editor. 794 00:31:52,220 --> 00:31:54,860 They created the interior design to make sure 795 00:31:54,860 --> 00:31:56,140 that was professional, 796 00:31:56,180 --> 00:31:57,260 the back cover. 797 00:31:57,460 --> 00:32:00,900 And then, um, they had to go through the 798 00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:03,220 printer and make sure that was all good. 799 00:32:03,220 --> 00:32:04,780 And then I started working with a 800 00:32:04,780 --> 00:32:06,300 distributor. They shipped it off to the 801 00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:09,380 distributor, and the distributor is, 802 00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:11,660 uh, distributing it to, 803 00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:13,540 you know, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, 804 00:32:13,660 --> 00:32:14,900 um, Bookstore. 805 00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:17,420 Com getting everything in place like behind 806 00:32:17,420 --> 00:32:20,100 the scenes. And then they will work on that 807 00:32:20,100 --> 00:32:21,180 distributing part. 808 00:32:21,660 --> 00:32:22,780 So that part of it all, 809 00:32:22,820 --> 00:32:23,940 you know, costs money. 810 00:32:23,940 --> 00:32:26,900 But it was worth it to me to make sure that 811 00:32:26,900 --> 00:32:29,300 it was professional and well done. 812 00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:32,660 Carol Cox: Yes. Especially things like the cover design 813 00:32:32,660 --> 00:32:34,780 and then the layout, both for the print and 814 00:32:34,780 --> 00:32:36,580 then for the Kindle versions. 815 00:32:36,580 --> 00:32:38,180 Those are things that you really need. 816 00:32:38,180 --> 00:32:40,220 Someone who's who's done that before and 817 00:32:40,220 --> 00:32:42,060 understands exactly how to do it. 818 00:32:45,220 --> 00:32:47,100 Okay. Let's talk about the promotion piece. 819 00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:49,460 I know that having talked to authors, 820 00:32:49,460 --> 00:32:52,220 how important it is to get the word out about 821 00:32:52,220 --> 00:32:54,940 your book and to and to encourage pre-orders 822 00:32:54,940 --> 00:32:56,180 and to have, you know, 823 00:32:56,220 --> 00:32:58,780 this like pre-launch team or street team to 824 00:32:58,820 --> 00:33:01,620 help you out. So tell us a little bit about 825 00:33:01,660 --> 00:33:04,900 the promotion partner that you have who's 826 00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:06,620 helping you. Because it is a lot of work, 827 00:33:06,620 --> 00:33:08,060 right? A lot of emails you're sending to 828 00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:09,460 people. And then how are you recruiting 829 00:33:09,460 --> 00:33:10,740 people for your street team? 830 00:33:11,420 --> 00:33:15,060 Melania Murphy: Right. So yeah, what I learned too, 831 00:33:15,100 --> 00:33:17,940 is that the promotion and the marketing 832 00:33:17,940 --> 00:33:21,420 starts at least 6 to 9 months before, 833 00:33:21,940 --> 00:33:23,460 before your launch date. 834 00:33:23,660 --> 00:33:25,660 There are some places that, 835 00:33:25,780 --> 00:33:27,780 um, like do book reviews. 836 00:33:27,780 --> 00:33:31,060 And of course, I'm an indie author that's 837 00:33:31,060 --> 00:33:32,980 putting out all the money ahead of time. 838 00:33:33,180 --> 00:33:34,740 So I, of course, went with the, 839 00:33:34,860 --> 00:33:36,620 um, the free review. 840 00:33:36,900 --> 00:33:40,180 And then I started reaching out to places 841 00:33:40,180 --> 00:33:44,340 that that need like six months to review your 842 00:33:44,340 --> 00:33:47,060 book. Um, there's a lady who does, 843 00:33:47,140 --> 00:33:49,220 um, Tampa Bay reads down here, 844 00:33:49,220 --> 00:33:51,660 and she's like, well, send me your your press 845 00:33:51,660 --> 00:33:53,860 release and your, um, advance copy, 846 00:33:53,860 --> 00:33:55,380 like six months before I'm like, 847 00:33:55,420 --> 00:33:56,700 oh, I'm already behind. 848 00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:58,820 But, you know, we'll just work with that. 849 00:33:58,860 --> 00:34:01,260 And and getting this arc together, 850 00:34:01,300 --> 00:34:02,820 you know, that it was the distributor that 851 00:34:02,860 --> 00:34:04,620 like, well, how are you doing on your Arcs? 852 00:34:04,620 --> 00:34:06,380 And I'm like, um, my what? 853 00:34:06,540 --> 00:34:09,060 You know, so I mean, everything is such a 854 00:34:09,060 --> 00:34:10,820 learning curve, but having these advanced 855 00:34:10,820 --> 00:34:12,930 reader copies and, and, 856 00:34:13,050 --> 00:34:17,050 um, you know, there's so many different ways 857 00:34:17,050 --> 00:34:18,690 to get this information out to. 858 00:34:18,730 --> 00:34:20,850 But again, it's just kind of to generate, 859 00:34:21,330 --> 00:34:25,530 um, generate the buzz and try to try to get I 860 00:34:25,530 --> 00:34:28,210 just want so many brides to read this stuff 861 00:34:28,210 --> 00:34:30,170 because you're going to find it fascinating. 862 00:34:30,210 --> 00:34:31,650 It's just so much fun. 863 00:34:31,650 --> 00:34:33,690 So but of course, you know me just saying buy 864 00:34:33,690 --> 00:34:36,650 my book. You know, that's that's not the best 865 00:34:36,650 --> 00:34:40,970 approach. So, um, I'm reaching out to places 866 00:34:40,970 --> 00:34:42,490 that maybe I could speak. 867 00:34:42,490 --> 00:34:45,250 And because my target audience is brides to 868 00:34:45,290 --> 00:34:48,490 be, I've been talking to bookstores or not 869 00:34:48,490 --> 00:34:49,530 bookstores, I'm sorry, 870 00:34:49,570 --> 00:34:51,610 bridal stores and saying, 871 00:34:51,610 --> 00:34:53,850 hey, you know, I wouldn't be fun to, 872 00:34:54,050 --> 00:34:57,010 you know, have a book signing here or a 873 00:34:57,050 --> 00:34:58,810 Women's History Month event here. 874 00:34:59,050 --> 00:35:01,610 And, um, because, you know, 875 00:35:01,650 --> 00:35:02,930 Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, 876 00:35:02,930 --> 00:35:04,770 all those big bookstores, 877 00:35:04,970 --> 00:35:07,770 they take like 40% right off the top. 878 00:35:08,010 --> 00:35:10,050 So I know. Right. 879 00:35:10,090 --> 00:35:12,330 So you have to kind of price your book, 880 00:35:12,370 --> 00:35:14,050 kind of look at what other books are being 881 00:35:14,050 --> 00:35:16,090 priced at and price your book accordingly 882 00:35:16,090 --> 00:35:18,410 because they take so much right off the bat. 883 00:35:18,690 --> 00:35:22,130 So now as I go around to bridal stores and 884 00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:24,490 other vendors, photographers and florists 885 00:35:24,490 --> 00:35:27,090 saying, hey, can I sell my book in your 886 00:35:27,090 --> 00:35:29,250 store? You know, and I let them know they'll 887 00:35:29,250 --> 00:35:31,650 they'll get 30% of the book because I'm going 888 00:35:31,690 --> 00:35:33,810 to have to give it to somebody, 889 00:35:34,490 --> 00:35:36,890 you know. So that was that's one promotion 890 00:35:36,890 --> 00:35:39,810 tactic. But but yeah, just getting friends 891 00:35:39,810 --> 00:35:42,570 and family involved and just, 892 00:35:42,850 --> 00:35:46,010 you know, asking them to read your book, 893 00:35:46,130 --> 00:35:49,090 um, an advance copy, asking them to put 894 00:35:49,130 --> 00:35:52,450 reviews out. Um, there's a lot of great 895 00:35:52,450 --> 00:35:54,650 resources online. 896 00:35:54,650 --> 00:35:56,650 It can actually be kind of overwhelming. 897 00:35:57,610 --> 00:35:59,970 But, um, yeah, there's, 898 00:36:00,010 --> 00:36:03,090 there's I probably put in at least two hours 899 00:36:03,090 --> 00:36:05,730 a day, like promoting and reaching out to 900 00:36:05,770 --> 00:36:07,610 people and networking and, 901 00:36:07,770 --> 00:36:09,410 you know, just finding all the different 902 00:36:09,450 --> 00:36:11,890 options that are available to promote my 903 00:36:11,890 --> 00:36:12,290 book. 904 00:36:13,130 --> 00:36:14,370 Carol Cox: Well, I am so excited. 905 00:36:14,370 --> 00:36:16,930 Congratulations on this accomplishment. 906 00:36:16,930 --> 00:36:18,210 Really? I mean, when I, 907 00:36:18,250 --> 00:36:20,770 when I ever I see someone who has written and 908 00:36:20,770 --> 00:36:22,730 published a book, I'm really impressed 909 00:36:22,730 --> 00:36:23,770 because it's not easy. 910 00:36:23,810 --> 00:36:25,410 You know, it takes a lot. It takes a long 911 00:36:25,410 --> 00:36:28,370 time, a lot of dedication and like, 912 00:36:28,410 --> 00:36:30,770 you know, sitting down and doing the work 913 00:36:31,050 --> 00:36:33,730 week after week. So congratulations on this. 914 00:36:34,410 --> 00:36:35,490 Melania Murphy: Thank you very much. 915 00:36:35,490 --> 00:36:37,090 And I'm still waiting for your book. 916 00:36:38,650 --> 00:36:40,970 Carol Cox: It was. Yeah, I know I didn't want to mention 917 00:36:40,970 --> 00:36:43,850 that, but that's that's why I'm so impressed 918 00:36:43,850 --> 00:36:45,410 by it. It's coming, it's coming, 919 00:36:45,410 --> 00:36:46,970 it's working its way out. It's working its 920 00:36:46,970 --> 00:36:49,690 way out. All right, so where can listeners go 921 00:36:49,930 --> 00:36:51,410 to get your book? 922 00:36:52,010 --> 00:36:55,650 Melania Murphy: Okay, so my website is millennial. 923 00:36:56,170 --> 00:36:58,570 Com and of course, you can, 924 00:36:58,650 --> 00:37:01,170 uh, buy it right there on my website. 925 00:37:01,530 --> 00:37:04,130 And um, it is on Amazon. 926 00:37:04,170 --> 00:37:05,730 It's on Barnes and Noble's. 927 00:37:05,730 --> 00:37:07,210 It's on bookstores. 928 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:12,240 Um. And or if you live by me in the Florida 929 00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:15,080 area, let me know and I'll bring you one so 930 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:15,840 you can buy it. 931 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:17,760 Carol Cox: Oh, I love that. 932 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,920 Well, I need a signed copy at some point. 933 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,920 I've already pre-ordered my print version on 934 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,040 Amazon, so that will come once it gets 935 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:26,640 published. And so next time we see each other 936 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,800 in person, I'll make sure to bring it so you 937 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:29,680 can sign it. 938 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:31,520 Melania Murphy: That sounds great. 939 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:32,520 Definitely a deal. 940 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,760 Carol Cox: All right. Well, thank you so much for coming 941 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,680 on to the podcast sharing this fascinating 942 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:42,480 topic. I have I have learned so much by 943 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,520 getting to know you over the past year and a 944 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,400 half, and I'm excited for more brides and and 945 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,000 more grooms and just more families and people 946 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,360 to understand the choices that they have and 947 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:54,720 to have these conversations. 948 00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:55,520 So thank you. 949 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,480 Melania Murphy: Thank you Carol. This has been fun. 950 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:00,280 Carol Cox: Until next time. 951 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:01,320 Thanks for listening.