1 00:00:09,078 --> 00:00:11,308 Kevin: Hello and welcome back to Subspace Radio. 2 00:00:11,458 --> 00:00:12,068 It's me, Kevin, 3 00:00:12,458 --> 00:00:13,198 Rob: and me, Rob, 4 00:00:14,138 --> 00:00:17,078 Kevin: and we've got another episode of Strange New Worlds season three. 5 00:00:17,078 --> 00:00:17,878 We're up to number three. 6 00:00:17,878 --> 00:00:23,718 This is Shuttle to Kenfori, or the one with the moss zombies, Rob. 7 00:00:23,898 --> 00:00:24,118 Rob: Yep. 8 00:00:24,288 --> 00:00:25,918 Let's not beat around the bush, Kevin. 9 00:00:26,378 --> 00:00:27,878 We have got zombies. 10 00:00:28,108 --> 00:00:28,598 Zombies, 11 00:00:28,798 --> 00:00:33,198 Kevin: was your first text to me after watching the show is Zombies, Kevin. 12 00:00:33,828 --> 00:00:34,318 Zombies. 13 00:00:34,938 --> 00:00:35,628 Rob: Yeah, I did, 14 00:00:35,758 --> 00:00:38,958 Kevin: I could not tell through the medium of text whether you were happy 15 00:00:38,968 --> 00:00:43,118 about the zombies or thought the zombies were a tragic departure from 16 00:00:43,118 --> 00:00:44,438 everything that makes Star Trek great. 17 00:00:44,618 --> 00:00:46,558 So that's what we're here to talk about. 18 00:00:46,608 --> 00:00:48,098 Rob: That is what we are here to talk about. 19 00:00:48,208 --> 00:00:48,498 Yeah. 20 00:00:48,498 --> 00:00:50,858 So I, I am quite a fan of the zombie genre. 21 00:00:51,038 --> 00:00:54,298 I'm not obsessed with it, but I do remember one time, many, 22 00:00:54,328 --> 00:00:56,538 many years ago I was, uh. 23 00:00:57,433 --> 00:01:01,873 A group of people I used to improvise with, um, we somehow got tickets 24 00:01:01,973 --> 00:01:05,313 to a swanky like, um, uh, party. 25 00:01:05,853 --> 00:01:10,553 And so it was someone's house party and it was like in St. Kilda in this 26 00:01:10,553 --> 00:01:14,593 really cool house or by down by Brighton overlooking the beach and stuff like that. 27 00:01:14,693 --> 00:01:17,393 So I dunno how we got there, but, uh, 28 00:01:17,418 --> 00:01:17,618 Kevin: Wow. 29 00:01:17,618 --> 00:01:19,618 Fancier than the impro parties I go to these 30 00:01:19,713 --> 00:01:22,753 Rob: W— This was, yeah, w we were, we were out of place. 31 00:01:22,813 --> 00:01:25,693 But one of the members of our team, the great Janelle Koenig, 32 00:01:25,713 --> 00:01:28,993 who now lives in Perth, a wonderful improviser, one of my dearest friends, 33 00:01:29,613 --> 00:01:31,753 um, uh, we were standing around. 34 00:01:31,933 --> 00:01:33,713 She, I think it had something to do with her. 35 00:01:34,013 --> 00:01:36,353 Anyway, there was one point, we're just standing around and talking 36 00:01:36,353 --> 00:01:38,913 about zombie movies, and she stopped. 37 00:01:38,913 --> 00:01:40,753 She went, boys, boys, boys. 38 00:01:41,303 --> 00:01:42,113 Look where we are. 39 00:01:42,623 --> 00:01:45,353 This is not the place to talk about zombie movies, all right. 40 00:01:45,353 --> 00:01:45,913 And we all went. 41 00:01:46,018 --> 00:01:46,988 Kevin: There's a time and 42 00:01:47,073 --> 00:01:50,243 Rob: There's a time and a place and we, we reigned it in. 43 00:01:50,453 --> 00:01:52,813 Kevin: week is Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. 44 00:01:53,003 --> 00:01:57,623 Rob: So yes, I'm, I'm not as, uh, uh, precious about my Star Trek 45 00:01:57,803 --> 00:01:59,783 as, uh, other pundits online. 46 00:01:59,983 --> 00:02:02,583 I haven't seen any, but I'm very fascinated to see what you thought 47 00:02:02,603 --> 00:02:05,223 of our, uh, our zombie episode. 48 00:02:05,433 --> 00:02:07,613 Kevin: I'm surprised Zombies is such a line for people. 49 00:02:07,933 --> 00:02:10,533 'cause you're not the only one I've heard who've gone, They went there. 50 00:02:10,673 --> 00:02:12,853 And I was like, they've gone everywhere else. 51 00:02:12,973 --> 00:02:16,113 I don't know why we thought this was the line they wouldn't cross. 52 00:02:16,229 --> 00:02:21,189 Rob: Strange New worlds has proved itself to be the show that will go to all the 53 00:02:21,189 --> 00:02:26,509 places that other Star Trek shows are seen as You cannot pass that point. 54 00:02:27,444 --> 00:02:31,734 Kevin: Well, yeah, it is the, it is the let's do Star Trek weird show. 55 00:02:31,734 --> 00:02:33,374 That's the entire premise of the show. 56 00:02:33,634 --> 00:02:35,684 That's the Strange and Strange New Worlds. 57 00:02:35,759 --> 00:02:36,249 Rob: Exactly. 58 00:02:36,599 --> 00:02:37,089 Exactly. 59 00:02:37,829 --> 00:02:38,049 Um. 60 00:02:38,089 --> 00:02:38,509 Kevin: So, yes. 61 00:02:38,949 --> 00:02:40,349 I didn't think they were that strange. 62 00:02:40,489 --> 00:02:44,949 And, uh, they even came up with a, a Treknobabble explanation to do 63 00:02:44,949 --> 00:02:47,269 with moss consuming other plants. 64 00:02:47,489 --> 00:02:52,069 And, and, uh, they, they accident, you know, there was a gas leak and 65 00:02:52,069 --> 00:02:57,149 it merged with the local scientists and bimba thank you, ma'am. 66 00:02:57,379 --> 00:02:58,789 It's a, it's a zombie fest. 67 00:02:59,059 --> 00:03:06,159 Rob: It was very, um, uh, The Trek of Us, so moss, uh, fungus, either way. 68 00:03:06,309 --> 00:03:06,599 Yeah. 69 00:03:06,599 --> 00:03:06,759 Yeah. 70 00:03:07,144 --> 00:03:09,434 Kevin: Yeah, I, uh, how did this show work for you? 71 00:03:09,739 --> 00:03:10,639 Rob: For me it was great. 72 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:15,319 I, I, I, I loved it and especially because, you know, considering we 73 00:03:15,319 --> 00:03:21,679 talked about it a bit, um, last season there was some addressing of, um, 74 00:03:22,269 --> 00:03:27,719 some, some questions that were left up, uh, last season about M'benga. 75 00:03:27,939 --> 00:03:32,949 And this season, you know, this episode, they went, we're, we're, 76 00:03:33,089 --> 00:03:34,269 we are making it black and white. 77 00:03:34,279 --> 00:03:36,149 There is no gray area anymore. 78 00:03:36,569 --> 00:03:37,909 We are answering those questions. 79 00:03:38,089 --> 00:03:39,629 We are letting you know and sure. 80 00:03:39,784 --> 00:03:40,344 Kevin: stabbed him. 81 00:03:40,459 --> 00:03:40,749 Rob: Yeah. 82 00:03:40,769 --> 00:03:41,309 He done it. 83 00:03:41,409 --> 00:03:43,389 He done did it, and he would done do it again. 84 00:03:45,999 --> 00:03:49,449 Kevin: Yeah, I, uh, I mean, every Star Trek, every long time Star Trek 85 00:03:49,449 --> 00:03:53,369 family like me, watches the M'benga scenes and goes, he is such a mild 86 00:03:53,489 --> 00:03:57,689 mannered sidekick to McCoy in TOS. 87 00:03:58,269 --> 00:03:59,249 How does he get there? 88 00:03:59,409 --> 00:04:01,769 I mean, obviously he's not gonna get drummed outta star fleet. 89 00:04:02,079 --> 00:04:06,249 He's not gonna get stabbed to death by a cling on or bitten by a moss zombie. 90 00:04:06,829 --> 00:04:09,769 But you know, he, he, there's clearly an arc here. 91 00:04:09,879 --> 00:04:15,169 This is a, this is a raw and damaged M'benga who seems relatively well 92 00:04:15,369 --> 00:04:17,969 adjusted later on in the original series. 93 00:04:18,029 --> 00:04:20,769 So yeah, how does he find that piece with his past? 94 00:04:21,319 --> 00:04:26,789 Like, that I think is the interesting, um, plot that we're, we're getting unfolded 95 00:04:26,989 --> 00:04:32,029 a, a little at a time here and yeah, I, I think we got more than I was expecting. 96 00:04:32,029 --> 00:04:33,949 They were like, I applaud them. 97 00:04:34,019 --> 00:04:38,429 Just like, okay, let's answer the questions and move on from there, rather 98 00:04:38,429 --> 00:04:39,989 than like continuing to string it out. 99 00:04:40,219 --> 00:04:41,489 Rob: Definitely, definitely. 100 00:04:41,749 --> 00:04:48,064 And I liked there was a lot of, uh, like, like you said, Treksplanation 101 00:04:48,324 --> 00:04:49,664 to make everything work. 102 00:04:49,664 --> 00:04:54,144 This is a planet that nobody goes to in an area that is cut off, that no one 103 00:04:54,164 --> 00:04:58,944 can go into that area, so it is so, and nobody will ever talk about it again. 104 00:04:59,134 --> 00:05:02,264 Literally at the end, there goes, this is off the books, so 105 00:05:02,274 --> 00:05:03,544 let's never mention it again. 106 00:05:03,884 --> 00:05:05,104 So much so that they can go. 107 00:05:05,194 --> 00:05:07,984 We've done zombies once and we can never talk about it again. 108 00:05:08,004 --> 00:05:09,944 Kevin: If anyone asks what happened to our shuttle craft, 109 00:05:10,054 --> 00:05:11,344 just, uh, change the subject. 110 00:05:12,569 --> 00:05:13,439 Rob: Let's talk about fishing. 111 00:05:13,609 --> 00:05:14,919 Let's talk about going fishing. 112 00:05:15,459 --> 00:05:22,359 Um, and, uh, uh, bringing in the Klingons, uh, to deal with this issue 113 00:05:22,619 --> 00:05:24,959 was, uh, a great way to get around it. 114 00:05:24,979 --> 00:05:25,799 But there was also an 115 00:05:25,859 --> 00:05:28,579 Kevin: I enjoy getting some Klingons being Klingony on screen. 116 00:05:28,789 --> 00:05:32,539 Like this feels like they're, they're, they, you know, pulled it back just a 117 00:05:32,539 --> 00:05:36,139 little bit from the strangeness of the Discovery era Klingons honored what 118 00:05:36,139 --> 00:05:39,679 they'd done there, but like made these Klingons a bit more recognizably, Klingon. 119 00:05:39,869 --> 00:05:43,169 Rob: It was definitely an e evolution 'cause it was more of our familiar, 120 00:05:43,669 --> 00:05:48,609 um, Klingon makeup from say, the nineties era that started with, uh, the 121 00:05:48,609 --> 00:05:49,849 motion pitcher back in the seventies. 122 00:05:49,849 --> 00:05:54,569 But their clothing was still quite Discovery esque, like silver, like 123 00:05:54,974 --> 00:05:57,854 Kevin: I mean, yeah, you read, you read the behind the scenes stuff from Discovery 124 00:05:57,874 --> 00:06:02,614 and the intent was always that there are, you know, there are many kinds of 125 00:06:02,614 --> 00:06:05,934 Klingons, there are different houses with different styles and different 126 00:06:05,934 --> 00:06:08,134 looks and different, uh, customs. 127 00:06:08,554 --> 00:06:10,494 And so we got to see some. 128 00:06:11,559 --> 00:06:15,009 Klingon houses and some Klingon types that we had not seen before in Discovery. 129 00:06:15,069 --> 00:06:18,569 But the intent was always that the Klingons we knew well were there as well. 130 00:06:18,629 --> 00:06:24,009 And I feel like we got, we got the lady Klingon who was leading the two very, um, 131 00:06:24,194 --> 00:06:24,614 Rob: The red 132 00:06:24,769 --> 00:06:25,649 Kevin: ordinary Klingons. 133 00:06:25,649 --> 00:06:26,129 Yeah, yeah. 134 00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:30,889 The red shirts of that party were much more, I think, traditionally Klingon to 135 00:06:31,009 --> 00:06:36,054 me, whereas the, the, the, the senior officer of that, uh, that mission was, 136 00:06:36,494 --> 00:06:39,974 I think, closer to what we had seen in Discovery, not just because it was a, 137 00:06:40,214 --> 00:06:44,254 a strong female character, which we had plenty in the Klingons in Discovery, 138 00:06:44,514 --> 00:06:49,534 but, uh, also I thought she was, she was a, a bit more of that, that guttural, 139 00:06:49,994 --> 00:06:56,054 um, a truly alien Klingon rather than the, the Klingon that is like dressed 140 00:06:56,054 --> 00:06:58,174 in armor with a, with a forehead patch. 141 00:06:58,584 --> 00:06:58,804 Rob: Yes. 142 00:06:59,024 --> 00:07:02,244 And especially, uh, to quote, uh, Chekhov in Star Trek five, 143 00:07:02,624 --> 00:07:03,764 she has wonderful muscles. 144 00:07:04,464 --> 00:07:10,574 Um, uh, but yes, I, I particularly liked, uh, you know, that I always love 145 00:07:10,574 --> 00:07:15,674 a good bit of beau, beautiful bit of, uh, Klingon logic and so that M'benga 146 00:07:15,694 --> 00:07:22,509 needed to die because of, you know, because the Klingon, her, her father 147 00:07:22,809 --> 00:07:27,469 was seen as a embarrassment because of dealing with peace, and so because he was 148 00:07:27,529 --> 00:07:29,829 Kevin: You robbed me of the opportunity to murder my father. 149 00:07:29,849 --> 00:07:30,789 Rob: to kill my own 150 00:07:30,809 --> 00:07:31,509 Kevin: You must die. 151 00:07:32,289 --> 00:07:33,469 Rob: And they're going, of course, 152 00:07:34,449 --> 00:07:34,789 Kevin: Of course, 153 00:07:34,839 --> 00:07:36,119 Rob: Klingon's gonna Klingon. 154 00:07:36,589 --> 00:07:38,149 Kevin: I love some backwards alien logic. 155 00:07:38,209 --> 00:07:39,669 That's a great Star Trek trope. 156 00:07:40,359 --> 00:07:40,799 Rob: I loved her 157 00:07:41,104 --> 00:07:45,304 Kevin: I really liked the, uh, Pike M'benga banter as well, like before 158 00:07:45,324 --> 00:07:49,344 the Klingon showed up, and the moss zombies emerged from the shadows. 159 00:07:49,344 --> 00:07:53,864 Just like the talk about fishing and their past together, like, reestablishing the 160 00:07:53,864 --> 00:07:59,504 friendship as that platform for, uh, pike to overlook the, the rather dramatic news 161 00:07:59,504 --> 00:08:01,384 that gets revealed late in the episode. 162 00:08:01,804 --> 00:08:06,744 Um, some nice like quiet character building there that I, I, I think was a 163 00:08:06,744 --> 00:08:08,224 highlight of the episode for me as well. 164 00:08:08,494 --> 00:08:09,874 Rob: It definitely had a lot of variety. 165 00:08:10,014 --> 00:08:14,234 So you had those quiet moments, you had those intense moments when Pike was 166 00:08:14,834 --> 00:08:17,604 outraged about not being told about Batel. 167 00:08:17,894 --> 00:08:22,754 You had, you had the humorous moments of, but it actually worked out to 168 00:08:22,754 --> 00:08:25,754 be quite a beautiful moment as well, like Pike's there going zombies 169 00:08:25,814 --> 00:08:29,154 and M'benga going, these were once scientists and people are there. 170 00:08:29,154 --> 00:08:30,034 You know, let's, 171 00:08:30,059 --> 00:08:31,049 Kevin: Don't call them zombies. 172 00:08:31,084 --> 00:08:32,994 Rob: Let's, let's give them the respect they deserve. 173 00:08:33,254 --> 00:08:33,389 so. 174 00:08:33,389 --> 00:08:34,699 Kevin: They sound like zombies to me! 175 00:08:36,094 --> 00:08:39,724 Rob: Don't use the Zed word if we're going to, if I'm gonna quote Shaun of the Dead. 176 00:08:40,104 --> 00:08:44,964 Um, especially because we haven't had much of Pike and M'Benga since that, 177 00:08:44,984 --> 00:08:48,644 you know, the episode where, you know, M'Benga did, uh, did the stabbing. 178 00:08:49,144 --> 00:08:53,484 Um, it's great to take that moment and especially to give Pike a full episode. 179 00:08:53,764 --> 00:08:56,204 'cause like we've talked about, you know, season three, season 180 00:08:56,304 --> 00:09:01,479 two was, uh, you know, Pike AWOL. 181 00:09:01,919 --> 00:09:06,019 Um, said, let's go, let's just give him a, a mission with M'benga and get 182 00:09:06,019 --> 00:09:06,309 Kevin: Yeah. 183 00:09:06,429 --> 00:09:08,029 A proper away mission with, yeah. 184 00:09:08,369 --> 00:09:11,389 Rob: And especially now, 'cause Anson Mount's, Anson Mount's, uh, 185 00:09:11,769 --> 00:09:13,229 uh, a father for a second time. 186 00:09:13,689 --> 00:09:13,909 So, 187 00:09:13,939 --> 00:09:14,229 Kevin: Yeah. 188 00:09:14,309 --> 00:09:15,589 I hear it's happening again. 189 00:09:15,649 --> 00:09:18,229 Rob: So I've con yeah, they've finished season four from what 190 00:09:18,229 --> 00:09:21,749 I've heard, so hopefully his, uh, time for season five is, uh. 191 00:09:22,549 --> 00:09:23,889 Um, is available. 192 00:09:24,509 --> 00:09:26,569 Um, uh, being a, a new daddy. 193 00:09:26,629 --> 00:09:27,849 But yes, I love their dynamic. 194 00:09:28,129 --> 00:09:34,319 I love their relationship and I love the, the juggling of, of moral. 195 00:09:34,419 --> 00:09:39,359 So, you know, the area is gray and, um, and Pike is not as you know, 196 00:09:39,359 --> 00:09:44,359 but he's never been a, uh, uh, a boy scout when it comes to the Federation 197 00:09:44,379 --> 00:09:45,639 and, and all that type of stuff. 198 00:09:45,709 --> 00:09:47,799 He's very connected to his people. 199 00:09:48,639 --> 00:09:52,669 Kevin: There were, once the, once the zombies came out and the, the 200 00:09:53,019 --> 00:09:58,029 phasers started firing, uh, it, it started to feel a little cheap to me. 201 00:09:58,139 --> 00:10:02,069 Like it felt like their, their vision exceeded their 202 00:10:02,069 --> 00:10:03,949 budget, uh, at a certain point. 203 00:10:04,529 --> 00:10:07,989 The zombies like breaking through the window looked a little, 204 00:10:08,469 --> 00:10:09,789 a little Benny Hill to me. 205 00:10:10,129 --> 00:10:10,709 And, uh. 206 00:10:12,199 --> 00:10:16,499 And yeah, the, the two Startfleet officers hiding in the cabinet and 207 00:10:16,499 --> 00:10:18,219 we just see flashes of red phasers. 208 00:10:18,219 --> 00:10:20,459 And then they're like, you can come out, or, you know, it's 209 00:10:20,459 --> 00:10:21,379 all, all the fighting's over. 210 00:10:21,379 --> 00:10:23,019 It's like, oh yeah, they saved some money there. 211 00:10:23,349 --> 00:10:26,179 There, there it, it was kind of like, let's speed pass all the 212 00:10:26,179 --> 00:10:27,989 expensive stuff, it felt like. 213 00:10:28,714 --> 00:10:34,454 Rob: It was trying to cram a, a, all the genre traits into the Star Trek logic. 214 00:10:34,514 --> 00:10:37,974 So going, there's this whole planet and there's, you know, there's 215 00:10:37,974 --> 00:10:39,694 forest ranges and stuff like that. 216 00:10:39,994 --> 00:10:40,214 Oh. 217 00:10:40,234 --> 00:10:43,854 But everything is in this conti contained one building 218 00:10:44,589 --> 00:10:45,649 Kevin: On the roof of this one 219 00:10:45,724 --> 00:10:45,944 Rob: Yes. 220 00:10:46,164 --> 00:10:46,624 Of they're 221 00:10:46,729 --> 00:10:47,649 Kevin: happens to have, uh. 222 00:10:48,174 --> 00:10:50,699 force field emitters laid out, uh, on it. 223 00:10:51,089 --> 00:10:54,859 That that rooftop scene felt to me like it was conceived as 224 00:10:54,859 --> 00:10:56,059 the set piece of the episode. 225 00:10:56,089 --> 00:11:01,139 Like some writer went, I can see it, you know, drone sweeping drone shot over the 226 00:11:01,139 --> 00:11:03,579 top of a, of a abandoned installation. 227 00:11:03,579 --> 00:11:08,579 There's force field emitters and around it is just this throng of zombies 228 00:11:09,659 --> 00:11:14,359 throwing themselves against it while inside a Klingon duels with M'benga. 229 00:11:14,379 --> 00:11:17,299 Like it must have sounded so epic on paper. 230 00:11:17,839 --> 00:11:22,379 For whatever reason, be it the direction, be it lack of budget, the shots were 231 00:11:22,379 --> 00:11:27,819 all really tight and I just did not have that sense of epic proportions here. 232 00:11:27,959 --> 00:11:32,459 It was all a bit cheap to me in how it turned out on the screen. 233 00:11:32,619 --> 00:11:35,559 Rob: Yes, it's an inspiring idea that came, didn't come 234 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,559 across as completely inspiring. 235 00:11:37,759 --> 00:11:38,559 I definitely get that. 236 00:11:38,719 --> 00:11:39,319 I definitely get that. 237 00:11:39,859 --> 00:11:40,519 Um, and we're 238 00:11:40,519 --> 00:11:43,459 Kevin: But I, I, you know, I've been a Star Trek fan before they had any 239 00:11:43,459 --> 00:11:48,419 budget to speak of Rob, so I, I was happy to, uh, go along with the story. 240 00:11:48,519 --> 00:11:49,364 Rob: You're the og. 241 00:11:49,584 --> 00:11:50,244 The og. 242 00:11:50,744 --> 00:11:55,564 Um, I love, I love the, I love my myself a Klingon whip battle 243 00:11:55,564 --> 00:11:56,924 whip that I've never seen before. 244 00:11:57,409 --> 00:11:59,269 Kevin: No, I've never seen a Klingon whip before either. 245 00:12:00,104 --> 00:12:03,964 Rob: Um, and, uh, the return, the shut shuttle ship was something that 246 00:12:03,964 --> 00:12:06,844 we saw in Discovery, I believe I, I think I, that looked familiar. 247 00:12:07,329 --> 00:12:09,899 Kevin: Yeah, they did some fun stuff with like, moving the camera 248 00:12:10,159 --> 00:12:14,139 in front of the, the windscreen of the ship in order to make it, to 249 00:12:14,269 --> 00:12:15,979 imply the maneuvers they were doing. 250 00:12:16,079 --> 00:12:18,379 And again, like, yeah, let's save a little money here. 251 00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:19,699 No need to actually see the stars. 252 00:12:20,319 --> 00:12:22,259 Um, and uh, it worked really well. 253 00:12:22,329 --> 00:12:24,619 Like I, I, I was like, oh yeah, I can feel the turn. 254 00:12:24,999 --> 00:12:25,419 So, yeah. 255 00:12:26,509 --> 00:12:26,729 Rob: Um, 256 00:12:26,849 --> 00:12:29,569 Kevin: effective, uh, some effective cost savings here. 257 00:12:30,289 --> 00:12:30,779 Rob: Exactly. 258 00:12:31,079 --> 00:12:34,539 And we haven't even talked about the B plot, where, um, finally 259 00:12:34,959 --> 00:12:35,799 Kevin: a whole other show. 260 00:12:35,909 --> 00:12:36,639 Rob: there's a whole 261 00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:38,679 Kevin: part of the problem, I think as well, is they were like, 262 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:43,079 they were cramming a lot of story into, into one episode here. 263 00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:46,249 Rob: Yes, they can't give Ortegas a full episode for herself. 264 00:12:46,349 --> 00:12:50,249 But they can give her half an episode where, uh, we can focus on her. 265 00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:52,809 And she really, um, stepped up. 266 00:12:52,809 --> 00:12:55,569 There's, she's going through a lot at the moment and, uh, 267 00:12:55,769 --> 00:12:59,059 Kevin: Yeah, she stepped it up about one eighth impulse power, Rob. 268 00:12:59,929 --> 00:13:01,099 Rob: When she wasn't meant to, 269 00:13:02,039 --> 00:13:02,259 Kevin: No. 270 00:13:03,899 --> 00:13:05,159 Uh, I really liked it. 271 00:13:05,299 --> 00:13:12,159 Uh, I, for me, that was my favorite part of this episode is the, the, the, um, the 272 00:13:12,159 --> 00:13:14,879 cost of breaking the rules, uh, stuff. 273 00:13:15,549 --> 00:13:21,329 Like I, I know modern Star Trek is all about the feelings, but. 274 00:13:22,194 --> 00:13:25,504 Every once in a while, it's nice to be reminded this is a military organization 275 00:13:25,514 --> 00:13:27,344 where people are expected to follow orders 276 00:13:27,554 --> 00:13:28,264 Rob: There is that 277 00:13:28,444 --> 00:13:32,864 Kevin: the procedure of that, the, the chain of command of that. 278 00:13:33,224 --> 00:13:34,664 I really enjoy that stuff. 279 00:13:34,804 --> 00:13:40,984 And, uh, getting to A explore Ortegas is damage with that story, but also 280 00:13:41,054 --> 00:13:42,824 like see how the chain of command works. 281 00:13:43,204 --> 00:13:48,999 See how Una works as a manager who has to like, yank the chain a bit 282 00:13:48,999 --> 00:13:51,439 here and say, uh, not acceptable. 283 00:13:51,904 --> 00:13:55,134 Rob: And how good, how was Rebecca Romijn? 284 00:13:55,154 --> 00:13:55,444 Just 285 00:13:55,609 --> 00:13:55,989 Kevin: She was 286 00:13:56,054 --> 00:14:01,884 Rob: incredible as number one and just goes, give her own ship, um, dealt with. 287 00:14:01,944 --> 00:14:07,144 Kevin: Watching her and La'an do the captain first officer dynamic and like, 288 00:14:07,324 --> 00:14:10,464 you know what, you know what it's like to deal with the Gorn trauma, right? 289 00:14:10,624 --> 00:14:11,984 you're like, oh, okay, I get it. 290 00:14:12,084 --> 00:14:17,644 You know, very, very great to see Una on the one hand, like defend her officer 291 00:14:17,874 --> 00:14:22,704 to La'an, uh, but at the same time discipline her officer when needed. 292 00:14:22,929 --> 00:14:24,189 Rob: And listen to everything. 293 00:14:24,249 --> 00:14:28,469 So Scotty was there, um, because Pelia doesn't do those meetings. 294 00:14:28,849 --> 00:14:33,909 Oh, you didn't contract Carol, Carol Kane for all, for that many episodes. 295 00:14:33,909 --> 00:14:34,949 She, for that 296 00:14:34,959 --> 00:14:37,739 Kevin: No, but it also tells us that like Scotty is now a 297 00:14:38,009 --> 00:14:39,459 effectively a regular, right? 298 00:14:39,489 --> 00:14:40,419 He's no longer a guest 299 00:14:40,614 --> 00:14:41,304 Rob: Yeah, exactly. 300 00:14:41,844 --> 00:14:45,504 Um, and, uh, how Una balances that out. 301 00:14:45,964 --> 00:14:51,864 Um, in Incre, an incredible way of the discipline, the disciplinary, 302 00:14:52,644 --> 00:14:54,184 uh, scene between the two of them. 303 00:14:54,184 --> 00:14:55,504 She's going, oh, I'm in trouble. 304 00:14:55,504 --> 00:14:56,264 This looks serious. 305 00:14:56,844 --> 00:14:58,584 And, and Una never raised a voice. 306 00:14:59,164 --> 00:15:00,344 Always remain calm. 307 00:15:00,804 --> 00:15:02,624 And, but said, these are the facts. 308 00:15:02,734 --> 00:15:05,304 This is clearly what you've done and this is what 309 00:15:05,379 --> 00:15:07,429 Kevin: Look me in my eye and tell me I'm wrong. 310 00:15:07,694 --> 00:15:08,784 Rob: That, that stuff, yeah. 311 00:15:08,784 --> 00:15:11,064 That was the Star Trekkiest of Star Trek stuff. 312 00:15:11,369 --> 00:15:12,819 Kevin: Yeah, and I, I liked it. 313 00:15:12,979 --> 00:15:18,139 I just wish these two A and b plots didn't, uh, clash so badly. 314 00:15:18,939 --> 00:15:21,819 'cause the whole point of the A plot is don't tell 315 00:15:21,819 --> 00:15:23,179 Starfleet we're breaking orders. 316 00:15:23,399 --> 00:15:26,384 And the whole point of the B plot is never break orders. 317 00:15:26,684 --> 00:15:29,304 And the fact that these two things are in one episode makes 318 00:15:29,304 --> 00:15:31,664 that contrast especially violent. 319 00:15:32,124 --> 00:15:34,224 Uh, so I was kind of going, yeah. 320 00:15:34,604 --> 00:15:39,144 Uh, don't break orders in the middle of that mission that Starfleet 321 00:15:39,309 --> 00:15:40,229 Rob: completely breaking orders. 322 00:15:40,419 --> 00:15:40,709 Yeah. 323 00:15:40,929 --> 00:15:44,489 I did like the, uh, the final scene as well with, uh, Batel and 324 00:15:44,639 --> 00:15:46,209 Pike and her line particularly. 325 00:15:46,789 --> 00:15:51,449 Um, I can't worry about how feeling bad for, for hurting 326 00:15:51,449 --> 00:15:54,009 your feelings about her death. 327 00:15:54,009 --> 00:15:54,449 Hurting your 328 00:15:54,449 --> 00:15:54,649 Kevin: tears. 329 00:15:54,879 --> 00:15:55,849 That was so real. 330 00:15:56,079 --> 00:16:00,249 That was like, I don't know if it's cancer allegory or something else, but that 331 00:16:00,359 --> 00:16:05,969 like felt really real that like I, I can barely deal with this, my own feelings 332 00:16:05,969 --> 00:16:07,369 about this, let alone your feelings 333 00:16:07,494 --> 00:16:08,164 Rob: Incredible. 334 00:16:08,314 --> 00:16:09,004 It's so good. 335 00:16:09,024 --> 00:16:13,644 The two of them are dynamic together and uh, I know he is gonna end 336 00:16:13,644 --> 00:16:15,604 up with Melissa George, but um, 337 00:16:17,074 --> 00:16:20,004 Kevin: Yeah, there's a, I mean, there's a little risk we're making 338 00:16:20,004 --> 00:16:21,684 some of our characters unlikable here. 339 00:16:21,754 --> 00:16:27,124 Like Ortegas did not come out particularly well this episode, but I feel like 340 00:16:27,124 --> 00:16:32,504 that's clearly part of the arc. Clearly, you know, a consequence of the trauma 341 00:16:32,654 --> 00:16:34,384 that she faced earlier in the season. 342 00:16:35,134 --> 00:16:40,144 Pike, I think, has a similar thing going that the, the more like he is a strange 343 00:16:40,194 --> 00:16:42,424 blend of flappable and unflappable. 344 00:16:42,654 --> 00:16:46,664 He's, he's like the unflappable captain in the face of the zombies, but then, 345 00:16:47,164 --> 00:16:52,499 you know, threaten his girlfriend with a medical, uh, uh, situation and 346 00:16:52,519 --> 00:16:54,339 he goes completely off the deep end. 347 00:16:54,799 --> 00:16:57,859 On the one hand like that, those, you know, we contain multitudes, and 348 00:16:57,859 --> 00:17:01,819 the fact that that captain has such a strong emotional response to one thing 349 00:17:01,924 --> 00:17:02,144 Rob: Yes. 350 00:17:02,599 --> 00:17:06,699 Kevin: his cool in situations that have to do with his captaincy is an interesting 351 00:17:06,699 --> 00:17:08,259 character trait in its own right. 352 00:17:08,679 --> 00:17:13,324 But, uh, I still like, I, I, I doubt anyone watched this episode 353 00:17:13,504 --> 00:17:15,204 and said, I like Pike more. 354 00:17:15,444 --> 00:17:18,564 I think Pike needs to come back from some aspects of this 355 00:17:18,864 --> 00:17:19,674 Rob: Look, you're right Kevin. 356 00:17:19,674 --> 00:17:21,714 They're playing fast and loose with his flap. 357 00:17:22,054 --> 00:17:24,754 And um, and that's the thing. 358 00:17:24,794 --> 00:17:28,554 I think we've developed enough of a connection with them and enough love 359 00:17:28,614 --> 00:17:34,874 for them that, to see that that shade for both of them, that, that that's 360 00:17:34,874 --> 00:17:36,554 what makes good drama, isn't it, really? 361 00:17:36,774 --> 00:17:36,994 And 362 00:17:37,484 --> 00:17:40,334 Kevin: Yeah, in the third season of a show, we should be ready for that stuff. 363 00:17:40,484 --> 00:17:42,934 It's just that these are such short seasons. 364 00:17:42,994 --> 00:17:48,294 It feels like we're rushing to the meaty stuff before we even really 365 00:17:48,294 --> 00:17:49,614 know these characters very well. 366 00:17:49,874 --> 00:17:50,164 Rob: Yeah. 367 00:17:50,314 --> 00:17:50,604 Yeah. 368 00:17:50,684 --> 00:17:53,564 I mean, going back and watching classic episodes on there going, oh, 369 00:17:53,664 --> 00:17:55,884 I'm watching episode 25 of a season. 370 00:17:56,224 --> 00:17:56,444 Oh. 371 00:17:57,024 --> 00:17:59,204 Oh, we didn't know how well we had it back then. 372 00:18:01,174 --> 00:18:04,869 Kevin: Did we both watch episode 25, this week, I wonder? 373 00:18:05,229 --> 00:18:08,389 'Cause that is, uh, the episode number that I brought to talk 374 00:18:08,389 --> 00:18:10,509 about horror in Star Trek. 375 00:18:10,729 --> 00:18:12,709 Rob: Yes, that is our topic for this week. 376 00:18:12,929 --> 00:18:17,549 We could not avoid any of the, you came up with some gallant attempts 377 00:18:17,549 --> 00:18:20,429 of other things that we can focus on, and as soon as you typed in the 378 00:18:20,429 --> 00:18:22,389 word horror, I went, there is, yeah. 379 00:18:22,419 --> 00:18:25,519 Kevin: You get a Klingon stomping a skull and the, you know, 380 00:18:25,579 --> 00:18:27,119 the mucus squirting out of it. 381 00:18:27,199 --> 00:18:27,999 I think we have our topic. 382 00:18:28,749 --> 00:18:33,129 Rob: You have, uh, a leg being grabbed and pulled out and it's been gnawed off. 383 00:18:33,919 --> 00:18:36,759 Come on, we are doing horror. 384 00:18:37,774 --> 00:18:38,064 Kevin: Yeah. 385 00:18:38,654 --> 00:18:43,794 Rob: So yes, I have got an episode 25 of a certain season for a particular franchise. 386 00:18:44,514 --> 00:18:45,094 Kevin: Oh, wow. 387 00:18:45,354 --> 00:18:47,654 So, uh, I, I wonder if we had a match. 388 00:18:47,854 --> 00:18:50,574 I brought, uh, TNG season one, episode 25. 389 00:18:51,224 --> 00:18:57,724 Rob: Uh, I bought DS9, season five, episode 25. 390 00:18:57,724 --> 00:18:58,844 Empok Nor. 391 00:18:59,529 --> 00:19:02,349 Kevin: Ah, well let's start, uh, let's start with the first one. 392 00:19:02,529 --> 00:19:06,069 So, uh, yeah, TNG, uh, episode 25 of the very first season. 393 00:19:06,069 --> 00:19:08,189 This is the second last episode of the season, 394 00:19:08,379 --> 00:19:08,999 Rob: If any way, 395 00:19:08,999 --> 00:19:11,149 Kevin: bumpy season as we established last week. 396 00:19:11,339 --> 00:19:14,199 Rob: if anything, that whole season is a horror show from what we've. 397 00:19:14,979 --> 00:19:15,269 Kevin: Yeah. 398 00:19:16,194 --> 00:19:20,174 You know, the, the fraying threads must have been at their breaking point here 399 00:19:20,174 --> 00:19:22,014 in the second last episode of the season. 400 00:19:22,754 --> 00:19:30,854 Uh, the episode is Conspiracy and it is the one where, um, a, a conspiracy that is 401 00:19:30,854 --> 00:19:33,094 implied earlier in the season is paid off. 402 00:19:33,354 --> 00:19:36,614 In, in an earlier episode of the, in the season. 403 00:19:37,114 --> 00:19:37,334 Um. 404 00:19:38,344 --> 00:19:44,394 Admiral Quinn and his aide, uh, commander Remic come aboard the Enterprise in 405 00:19:44,394 --> 00:19:49,254 order to inspect and just we're just asking questions and they refrain from 406 00:19:49,254 --> 00:19:53,854 explaining why they have questions about the Enterprise crew, but they 407 00:19:53,854 --> 00:20:00,974 are there apparently, like seeking dissent or seeking, um, evil doers. 408 00:20:01,274 --> 00:20:06,454 Um, there is a lot of implication that people failed at things purposefully, 409 00:20:06,674 --> 00:20:10,774 and then it's like, oh no, I, I, we did not mean to imply anything whatsoever. 410 00:20:11,474 --> 00:20:15,494 And then at the end of the episode when the, the Enterprise crew is cleared of 411 00:20:15,494 --> 00:20:21,044 all wrongdoing, Admiral Quinn confides to Picard that there is a conspiracy 412 00:20:21,144 --> 00:20:23,924 in the highest levels of Starfleet. 413 00:20:23,944 --> 00:20:28,404 Uh, and this is left as a dangling plot thread that is 414 00:20:28,434 --> 00:20:30,444 paid off here in Conspiracy. 415 00:20:31,064 --> 00:20:40,399 Um, and this is, this episode is known for, uh, being the one where they did 416 00:20:40,399 --> 00:20:44,799 stuff that felt like it didn't belong in Star Trek, in the horror department. 417 00:20:44,809 --> 00:20:49,384 There, there is a lot of like, creepy body horror stuff in this. 418 00:20:49,524 --> 00:20:53,624 The, I mean, the short version of the plot is that senior members of Starfleet 419 00:20:53,624 --> 00:20:55,144 have been taken over by parasites. 420 00:20:55,274 --> 00:20:58,584 Those parasites are these little bugs that crawl in your mouth, and yet you 421 00:20:58,584 --> 00:21:02,384 can find someone's infected by the fact that they have a little, a little tail 422 00:21:02,624 --> 00:21:03,864 sticking outta the back of their neck. 423 00:21:04,404 --> 00:21:04,624 Uh. 424 00:21:05,524 --> 00:21:08,944 Picard gets invited to dinner at Starfleet command where all the 425 00:21:08,944 --> 00:21:14,944 commanders are eating bowls of worms, and, uh, Picard is disgusted by this. 426 00:21:15,364 --> 00:21:19,904 And they end up, uh, bringing out the phasers and chasing people down. 427 00:21:20,284 --> 00:21:25,584 And the last one to go is Remmick the assistant to Admiral Quinn, who is 428 00:21:25,584 --> 00:21:29,704 sitting in this, basically a throne with a galactic map behind him. 429 00:21:30,404 --> 00:21:34,064 And, uh, one of the bugs crawls up his arm and goes in his mouth. 430 00:21:34,084 --> 00:21:39,304 And then they've got his, his neck kind of like swelling with the bugs inside him. 431 00:21:39,884 --> 00:21:44,344 And, uh, Picard and Riker kind of grimace and fire full phases at the guy. 432 00:21:44,684 --> 00:21:48,704 The whole top of his body is blown out with chunks of meat and 433 00:21:48,704 --> 00:21:52,784 you see the exposed ribcage with the mummy alien inside going. 434 00:21:53,764 --> 00:21:55,944 And then they both phaser it to death. 435 00:21:56,124 --> 00:21:56,944 End of episode. 436 00:21:57,004 --> 00:21:59,584 And it was like, what the hell just happened? 437 00:22:00,964 --> 00:22:03,184 It really has a feeling of, this one got away from them. 438 00:22:03,254 --> 00:22:07,064 That at a certain point they were like, well, we built the puppet, you know? 439 00:22:07,174 --> 00:22:11,144 There's no, like, it's been built, the money's been spent, we have to do it. 440 00:22:11,364 --> 00:22:13,744 And uh, they just, they just went with it. 441 00:22:13,974 --> 00:22:14,794 Rob: Are we going with 442 00:22:14,904 --> 00:22:16,264 Kevin: let's not speak of that ever again. 443 00:22:16,494 --> 00:22:20,874 Rob: Are we going with the extra ooze or do we No, don't hold back. 444 00:22:20,874 --> 00:22:22,914 We've got an extra canister of ooze. 445 00:22:23,094 --> 00:22:23,594 No, no, no. 446 00:22:23,594 --> 00:22:24,194 Bring it all out. 447 00:22:24,969 --> 00:22:28,719 Kevin: There is a, the, the, the very, like the stinger on the end of the 448 00:22:28,719 --> 00:22:34,679 episode, if you will, is that there is a, they detect a, uh, a signal that was 449 00:22:34,679 --> 00:22:42,039 sent out just before the end of things and the signal, uh, is presumed to be 450 00:22:42,229 --> 00:22:44,799 like the alien summoning reinforcements. 451 00:22:45,139 --> 00:22:47,439 And it's like, oh, it might not be over. 452 00:22:48,139 --> 00:22:48,359 Uh, 453 00:22:48,529 --> 00:22:49,389 Rob: And we never see them 454 00:22:49,439 --> 00:22:50,239 Kevin: never went back there. 455 00:22:50,439 --> 00:22:54,399 I think there was a, there was a gag or two made about it in, uh, Lower Decks, 456 00:22:54,399 --> 00:23:00,039 but other than that, we have never returned to the, um, invading bug hoard. 457 00:23:00,244 --> 00:23:01,294 Rob: That never got a name. 458 00:23:02,394 --> 00:23:03,574 Kevin: No, they never got a name. 459 00:23:04,074 --> 00:23:06,894 Picard asks, like they ask, what is your race? 460 00:23:06,894 --> 00:23:07,534 Where are you from? 461 00:23:07,534 --> 00:23:09,294 And they say, it's not important. 462 00:23:11,394 --> 00:23:14,774 So it's like, yeah, don't worry about the details is very much, uh, 463 00:23:14,854 --> 00:23:20,144 Rob: Look at this puppet we made of a rib cage and a and a oozy slug inside. 464 00:23:20,989 --> 00:23:21,279 Kevin: Yeah. 465 00:23:21,619 --> 00:23:25,359 So I mean, some of the lore around this was they were originally intending, 466 00:23:25,589 --> 00:23:30,359 intending to set this up as the start of the Borg, when the Borg were originally 467 00:23:30,639 --> 00:23:34,639 conceived as like an insectoid race, that there might be a link there. 468 00:23:34,739 --> 00:23:38,199 But by the time they aired this, they decided to drop that and the Borg were 469 00:23:38,199 --> 00:23:40,519 gonna be something else in season two. 470 00:23:41,339 --> 00:23:44,599 Um, the writer of this episode, originally, there was no 471 00:23:45,139 --> 00:23:46,859 parasite or insectoid threat. 472 00:23:46,999 --> 00:23:52,619 It was a conspiracy of senior members of Starfleet to, um, do 473 00:23:52,619 --> 00:23:53,819 away with the Prime Directive. 474 00:23:53,839 --> 00:23:55,899 It was like the prime directive is holding us back. 475 00:23:56,479 --> 00:23:59,859 We could be so much more if we didn't have our hands tied behind our backs 476 00:23:59,859 --> 00:24:03,379 by the Prime Directive and that this is what would be rooted out. 477 00:24:03,399 --> 00:24:05,779 And Gene Roddenberry refused. 478 00:24:05,959 --> 00:24:07,219 He said, there's no way. 479 00:24:07,719 --> 00:24:11,739 The whole point of Star Trek is that humanity has figured this stuff out. 480 00:24:12,319 --> 00:24:18,519 Uh, I do not want members of Starfleet to be doing the wrong thing intentionally. 481 00:24:18,829 --> 00:24:20,159 That is not this show. 482 00:24:20,219 --> 00:24:22,439 And they were like, okay, I guess we gotta do bugs then. 483 00:24:22,979 --> 00:24:26,799 Uh, you can almost imagine them doing a bad job of that out of spite. 484 00:24:27,039 --> 00:24:28,369 Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 485 00:24:28,369 --> 00:24:28,529 Yeah. 486 00:24:28,529 --> 00:24:32,729 And it seems a little bit Trill like as well, like an evil version of the Trill 487 00:24:33,109 --> 00:24:33,719 Kevin: Yeah, it is. 488 00:24:33,779 --> 00:24:34,159 Uh, yeah. 489 00:24:34,159 --> 00:24:38,919 If you can imagine the Trill as, as a malevolent, that is what this episode is. 490 00:24:39,149 --> 00:24:39,439 Yeah. 491 00:24:39,929 --> 00:24:41,739 Rob: Well, clearly Gene Roddenberry didn't know about 492 00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:43,899 our, uh, episodes on bad admirals. 493 00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:47,739 Um, so Pity just didn't have that foresight. 494 00:24:47,739 --> 00:24:48,779 He had a lot of vision. 495 00:24:48,879 --> 00:24:51,779 He had a vision, but just not for our podcast, which is, 496 00:24:51,964 --> 00:24:56,224 Kevin: Yes, Admiral Quinn and the other admiralty here are very much bad admirals 497 00:24:56,644 --> 00:24:59,264 by, by the end, due to the invasion. 498 00:24:59,684 --> 00:25:04,144 The, the early stuff, similar to the episode of Strange New Worlds this week. 499 00:25:04,144 --> 00:25:08,544 Like the stuff before the conspiracy is revealed, before the bugs come out and the 500 00:25:08,544 --> 00:25:12,284 phasers start firing, is, uh, enjoyable. 501 00:25:12,474 --> 00:25:15,484 Like, I think the mystery is fun. 502 00:25:16,154 --> 00:25:22,164 There's like lots of, you know, covert messages and trust no ones, and 503 00:25:22,258 --> 00:25:24,738 come back to Starfleet headquarters 'cause something's terribly wrong. 504 00:25:25,358 --> 00:25:29,618 All of that stuff is like delectable, but in the end you do have to pay it off. 505 00:25:29,718 --> 00:25:34,418 And the payoff was disappointing slash shocking and completely 506 00:25:34,418 --> 00:25:36,218 outta character for Star Trek. 507 00:25:37,518 --> 00:25:40,538 So this is one where I think the horror didn't work, and I think they 508 00:25:40,818 --> 00:25:44,178 probably, you know, scared themselves away from doing horror for a while. 509 00:25:44,443 --> 00:25:46,533 Rob: They definitely scared themselves away from returning 510 00:25:46,533 --> 00:25:48,213 to that, uh, species, definitely. 511 00:25:48,673 --> 00:25:49,093 Mm-hmm. 512 00:25:49,678 --> 00:25:51,228 Kevin: So what, uh, what happened in DS9? 513 00:25:51,443 --> 00:25:54,933 Rob: Well, yes, I was thinking about episodes we've already explored. 514 00:25:54,953 --> 00:25:56,853 So we have kind of looked at First Contact. 515 00:25:56,963 --> 00:25:59,973 There's some horror stuff with the Borg in there, which 516 00:26:00,033 --> 00:26:00,593 Kevin: yeah, totally. 517 00:26:00,633 --> 00:26:01,333 Rob: in incredible. 518 00:26:01,793 --> 00:26:07,053 Um, we have talked about, um, uh, the Vidiians in, uh, Voyager, especially like 519 00:26:07,063 --> 00:26:09,573 Faces, which is a very horrific episode. 520 00:26:10,413 --> 00:26:14,673 But, um, I had to go back to, uh, DS9, which is actually episode 24. 521 00:26:14,953 --> 00:26:15,793 I just double checked. 522 00:26:16,223 --> 00:26:16,513 Yeah. 523 00:26:17,213 --> 00:26:17,913 Off by one. 524 00:26:18,093 --> 00:26:19,473 So this is, uh, season five. 525 00:26:19,573 --> 00:26:24,033 So when things are really kicking along with the Dominion War, um, and 526 00:26:24,143 --> 00:26:28,033 this is where, uh, the whole system within Deep Space Nine is kind of 527 00:26:28,033 --> 00:26:33,473 falling apart and, uh, uh, O'Brien and Nog are working on the system and 528 00:26:33,473 --> 00:26:34,833 it just doesn't seem to be working. 529 00:26:35,653 --> 00:26:38,633 Um, so they have to go to, uh, uh. 530 00:26:39,758 --> 00:26:41,618 The sister, uh, uh, space 531 00:26:41,753 --> 00:26:43,553 Kevin: Yeah, they need a spare part for the, 532 00:26:43,698 --> 00:26:43,988 Rob: Yeah. 533 00:26:44,088 --> 00:26:44,708 For the, yeah. 534 00:26:44,888 --> 00:26:47,548 And so they have to go to Empok Nor, which has been, you know, 535 00:26:47,618 --> 00:26:49,068 abandoned and left behind. 536 00:26:49,128 --> 00:26:53,948 But they need to take, uh, a Cardassian who will know about the booby traps and 537 00:26:53,948 --> 00:26:56,228 the DNA of a Cardassian to get on board. 538 00:26:56,288 --> 00:27:00,228 And so they take, oh, it's a Garak episode. 539 00:27:00,748 --> 00:27:00,988 'cause of 540 00:27:01,113 --> 00:27:06,383 Kevin: Ambassador Garak, if you will, uh, according to the, the, the, the 541 00:27:06,653 --> 00:27:10,383 name on the wall in the Starfleet Academy trailer that was glimpsed 542 00:27:10,453 --> 00:27:11,153 Rob: That's right. 543 00:27:11,333 --> 00:27:11,553 Yes. 544 00:27:11,613 --> 00:27:13,353 We, yeah, that's a bit of a diversion. 545 00:27:13,353 --> 00:27:16,593 We've had a little bit of Star Trek news dropping outta Comic-Con. 546 00:27:16,593 --> 00:27:19,593 We had the, the trailer for Star Trek Academy finally drop. 547 00:27:19,613 --> 00:27:22,913 It looks interesting, a lot of, lot of debate about a female 548 00:27:22,913 --> 00:27:26,713 Jem'Hadar, um, the trailer for Khan. 549 00:27:27,013 --> 00:27:28,553 The Audio Adventure. 550 00:27:28,593 --> 00:27:28,873 Kevin: podcast. 551 00:27:29,613 --> 00:27:29,833 Rob: Yes. 552 00:27:29,923 --> 00:27:30,713 Audio adventure 553 00:27:30,793 --> 00:27:32,193 Kevin: wish they'd stop calling it a podcast. 554 00:27:32,503 --> 00:27:35,553 Just audio drama sounds so much better than podcast. 555 00:27:36,173 --> 00:27:39,633 Who would want to put their name to something called a podcast Rob? 556 00:27:39,853 --> 00:27:41,873 Rob: In the world of Star Trek, I hear you! 557 00:27:42,333 --> 00:27:46,353 Um, and of course, uh, puppet Pike with, uh, which we'll talk about at some point. 558 00:27:46,653 --> 00:27:52,193 Um, but yes, so, uh, so taking a band of, uh, yellow shirts that are red 559 00:27:52,193 --> 00:28:00,593 shirts, um, with them, Nog, O'Brien, uh, um, Garak and these, uh, uh, you 560 00:28:00,593 --> 00:28:06,953 know, destined for death, um, officers head off to, uh, Empok Nor and it turns, 561 00:28:07,003 --> 00:28:08,483 Kevin: something that we haven't seen in a while. 562 00:28:08,513 --> 00:28:11,883 Like I don't know if they've dropped that trope deliberately in Strange 563 00:28:11,903 --> 00:28:16,643 New Worlds, but you could imagine a version of this episode where Pike and 564 00:28:16,643 --> 00:28:20,523 M'Benga brought a few red shirts along to get eaten by the zombies, right? 565 00:28:20,623 --> 00:28:20,913 Rob: Yeah. 566 00:28:20,943 --> 00:28:21,233 Yeah. 567 00:28:21,233 --> 00:28:23,913 We just get the Klingon red shirts and we got not a single. 568 00:28:24,143 --> 00:28:27,403 Kevin: Oh, I loved when it got bitten and she immediately like phases 569 00:28:27,483 --> 00:28:29,003 him while he's still being bitten. 570 00:28:29,003 --> 00:28:29,163 Yeah. 571 00:28:29,188 --> 00:28:29,768 Rob: You know it. 572 00:28:29,788 --> 00:28:30,568 You know that stuff. 573 00:28:30,588 --> 00:28:32,168 As soon as they're infected, kill 'em. 574 00:28:32,588 --> 00:28:38,288 Um, uh, and so what begins then is then hunting down, trying to stop the 575 00:28:38,288 --> 00:28:41,888 booby traps, but them coming onboard, the sh onboard the space station 576 00:28:43,293 --> 00:28:47,813 activates, uh, these chambers with, uh, Cardassian soldiers inside a part of, 577 00:28:47,813 --> 00:28:52,253 like the death squad cult, like the, the highest of the high, the deadliest 578 00:28:52,253 --> 00:28:56,653 of the deadly within the Cardassian um, high com, you know, high echelons. 579 00:28:56,913 --> 00:29:00,293 Uh, one has been killed because of like a, a, a, a paling 580 00:29:00,293 --> 00:29:02,293 system came down and crashed it. 581 00:29:02,473 --> 00:29:07,253 But the other two, not only are they deadly, uh, Cardassians, but they've 582 00:29:07,253 --> 00:29:11,623 been, some gas has been released that makes them even more xenophobic. 583 00:29:12,323 --> 00:29:14,943 Um, and of course, Garak gets caught up in that as well. 584 00:29:15,003 --> 00:29:18,463 So they're hiding in the shadows and it's really effective making 585 00:29:18,463 --> 00:29:21,423 these Cardassians terrifying and the 586 00:29:21,593 --> 00:29:24,553 Kevin: is one of those ones where the, the, the episode on the page 587 00:29:24,613 --> 00:29:27,913 was laughable, but they managed to pull it off through sheer 588 00:29:28,323 --> 00:29:28,613 Rob: Yeah. 589 00:29:28,943 --> 00:29:29,553 Kevin: good lighting. 590 00:29:30,113 --> 00:29:33,453 Rob: You know, setting up those archetypes of the characters that are 591 00:29:33,453 --> 00:29:37,293 the red shirts, you see them, you find out a little bit about them before they 592 00:29:37,293 --> 00:29:41,173 die, so it's not just, you know, some guy who shows up, doesn't say a word. 593 00:29:41,353 --> 00:29:43,493 You get to feel some. 594 00:29:43,493 --> 00:29:45,253 Kevin: before you shoot, let me tell you my life story. 595 00:29:47,188 --> 00:29:51,968 Rob: Um, you get the, who's the coward, who's, who's into collecting, who's, uh, 596 00:29:52,178 --> 00:29:57,768 wants to have a fight, uh, who's the calm one, uh, within the arrangement of it. 597 00:29:57,768 --> 00:29:59,848 And then of course, the ultimate twist is that Garak gets, 598 00:30:00,108 --> 00:30:01,848 um, caught up in it as well. 599 00:30:01,868 --> 00:30:07,393 But there's a great banter between Garrick and um, O'Brien all the way through. 600 00:30:07,593 --> 00:30:10,273 'Cause Garrick's there going, oh, you, you know, you were the hero 601 00:30:10,533 --> 00:30:14,873 of a certain battle back in the Cardassian war and you know, you, you 602 00:30:14,873 --> 00:30:18,493 know, led men and you saved them all and you killed so many Cardassians. 603 00:30:18,513 --> 00:30:19,233 Tell me about it. 604 00:30:19,323 --> 00:30:22,733 Kevin: Just like Spock, Garak is at his most interesting when the veil 605 00:30:22,863 --> 00:30:26,773 slips, when the, when you know you see the monster behind the mask. 606 00:30:26,993 --> 00:30:28,173 Rob: And he's just, yeah. 607 00:30:28,273 --> 00:30:33,013 And that's, that's the, you know, the, the, um, the fun stuff that 608 00:30:33,013 --> 00:30:33,933 he doesn't like being trusted. 609 00:30:34,123 --> 00:30:36,493 He's there going, you're taking me along because you trust me. 610 00:30:36,493 --> 00:30:37,533 Well, I don't like that at all. 611 00:30:38,233 --> 00:30:44,053 And, and evil, you know, demented, psychotic, Garak is, uh, a work of art. 612 00:30:44,053 --> 00:30:48,373 Like there's a, there's a moment, it doesn't really pay off that well. 613 00:30:48,513 --> 00:30:52,173 If, if they could have, if again, it's a money thing, like at the end 614 00:30:52,173 --> 00:30:57,513 when O'Brien's, uh, trying to find Garak, 'cause Garak's captured Nog and 615 00:30:57,513 --> 00:30:59,433 Nog's the only one, you know, left. 616 00:30:59,973 --> 00:31:01,953 He comes onto the Promenade section. 617 00:31:01,973 --> 00:31:05,153 So it's great to see the sets, you know, turned into, you know. 618 00:31:06,083 --> 00:31:08,983 Um, desolate versions of what they really are. 619 00:31:09,363 --> 00:31:14,103 But as he walks into the Promenade to confront Garak, the bodies of the 620 00:31:14,103 --> 00:31:20,103 left of the remaining humans, uh, are there, kind of strung up, but you 621 00:31:20,103 --> 00:31:22,703 know, in a cheap sort of PG TV way. 622 00:31:22,723 --> 00:31:25,223 So they're kind of just up against the wall. 623 00:31:25,763 --> 00:31:28,823 And so they're not like hanging from a high rafter like 624 00:31:29,028 --> 00:31:29,318 Kevin: Yeah. 625 00:31:29,318 --> 00:31:30,758 They didn't have that Star Trek II money. 626 00:31:30,923 --> 00:31:31,213 Rob: Yeah. 627 00:31:32,433 --> 00:31:35,573 Um, so they're there and it's still quite horrifying and confronting, but 628 00:31:35,573 --> 00:31:36,933 it's a little bit, eh, it's cheap. 629 00:31:37,393 --> 00:31:44,223 And so finally, you know, um, O'Brien uses his engineering skills to create like a 630 00:31:44,233 --> 00:31:46,263 dummy bomb that blows up in Garak's face. 631 00:31:46,283 --> 00:31:48,423 And they get him, they get saved and rescued. 632 00:31:48,843 --> 00:31:50,663 Um, and then there's a confront. 633 00:31:50,763 --> 00:31:50,983 Oh. 634 00:31:51,223 --> 00:31:54,743 'cause he actually stabs one of the, the, uh, the humans when 635 00:31:54,743 --> 00:31:55,983 he's caught up in his face. 636 00:31:56,043 --> 00:31:58,503 So he kills someone while Yes. 637 00:31:58,843 --> 00:32:04,023 So at the end, while he's being repaired by Bashir, his lover, um, O'Brien comes 638 00:32:04,083 --> 00:32:09,783 in and, uh, you can see Garak is quite embarrassed and says, please pass on 639 00:32:09,843 --> 00:32:15,063 my, uh, my condolences to the dead man's wife because, you know, I don't 640 00:32:15,063 --> 00:32:16,303 think she would want to talk to me. 641 00:32:17,083 --> 00:32:22,343 Um, and he go, you know, if I had been any closer, I, you would've killed me. 642 00:32:22,723 --> 00:32:26,663 And, and O'Brien says, you know, I hope you don't take this the 643 00:32:26,663 --> 00:32:28,063 wrong way, but that was the plan. 644 00:32:28,318 --> 00:32:29,038 Kevin: That was the plan. 645 00:32:29,068 --> 00:32:29,358 Yeah. 646 00:32:31,528 --> 00:32:34,388 Rob: So yes, it does have that horrific element and there are parts 647 00:32:34,388 --> 00:32:38,268 of them going, oh my gosh, okay, this is like, people are expendable. 648 00:32:38,608 --> 00:32:43,708 The darkness is not your friend using all those horror tropes of the monster hidden. 649 00:32:44,128 --> 00:32:48,068 Um, but from a race that we have got to see as more than just monsters. 650 00:32:48,138 --> 00:32:50,868 It's, it's interesting to flip back to that. 651 00:32:51,288 --> 00:32:54,348 Um, we talked about last week with sort of like the Gorn. 652 00:32:54,808 --> 00:32:59,848 We spend a lot of time in Hegemony Part I showing there is range to them. 653 00:32:59,908 --> 00:33:02,368 And then with part two, they just go back to being monsters. 654 00:33:02,828 --> 00:33:06,488 Um, with this they, you, we, they start as monsters. 655 00:33:06,488 --> 00:33:09,968 We find out more about their culture then for this particular episode, um, 656 00:33:09,968 --> 00:33:14,628 they're psycho xenophobic, uh, drug addled, uh, versions of Cardassians 657 00:33:14,648 --> 00:33:15,368 so they can be the monsters. 658 00:33:16,733 --> 00:33:17,023 Kevin: Yeah. 659 00:33:17,643 --> 00:33:18,063 Uh, yeah. 660 00:33:18,103 --> 00:33:21,063 I feel like there's a, there's a, a related theme we could explore 661 00:33:21,423 --> 00:33:26,623 sometime of like the, the fellow crew member who is like trusted, like. 662 00:33:27,438 --> 00:33:31,328 They are, they're defanged in a way, and then suddenly things 663 00:33:31,328 --> 00:33:32,328 get a little outta control. 664 00:33:32,408 --> 00:33:36,328 I feel like that happens with Seven of Nine in her Borg, uh, background. 665 00:33:36,328 --> 00:33:39,928 Every once in a while it slips and she's becomes a danger to her, her 666 00:33:39,928 --> 00:33:44,888 own crew, and uh, maybe T'Pol in Enterprise to a certain extent as well. 667 00:33:45,628 --> 00:33:48,008 Rob: it is definitely a case of, it may be a little bit of Odo. 668 00:33:48,348 --> 00:33:48,568 Um, 669 00:33:48,958 --> 00:33:49,038 Kevin: Hmm. 670 00:33:49,668 --> 00:33:53,688 Rob: but yeah, it is that case of the episodic nature of this, 671 00:33:53,688 --> 00:33:58,113 even for Deep Space Nine, which is, you know, revolutionary in its 672 00:33:58,243 --> 00:33:59,593 story arcs and stuff like that. 673 00:33:59,903 --> 00:34:03,533 This is kind of something that's dropped. 674 00:34:03,793 --> 00:34:07,573 And so there, it, it, it isn't referred back to specifically, but there is that 675 00:34:07,573 --> 00:34:12,573 element of just adding color and texture to Garak and his relationships with, with 676 00:34:12,643 --> 00:34:15,013 O'Brien and what he means to everyone. 677 00:34:15,553 --> 00:34:19,373 But there isn't that, in the case of no direct reference to those who died again 678 00:34:19,753 --> 00:34:23,773 and what that actually means for someone who's now back on, oh, he just killed 679 00:34:23,773 --> 00:34:25,333 someone, but he was affected by drugs. 680 00:34:26,528 --> 00:34:26,818 Kevin: Yeah. 681 00:34:27,848 --> 00:34:30,548 The other thing you reminded me of of is the power of turning off the 682 00:34:30,548 --> 00:34:32,108 lights on the sets you already have. 683 00:34:32,888 --> 00:34:33,108 Um. 684 00:34:33,268 --> 00:34:37,098 Rob: Especially back in, especially back in nineties Star Trek, where, you 685 00:34:37,103 --> 00:34:38,553 Kevin: Yeah, but they're not above that now. 686 00:34:38,663 --> 00:34:41,913 Like the, the inter the introduction of the Gorn, the episode where 687 00:34:41,913 --> 00:34:46,433 Hemmer died was basically on, on redress sets of the Enterprise 688 00:34:46,473 --> 00:34:48,353 masquerading as a crashed starship. 689 00:34:48,438 --> 00:34:48,658 Rob: Yes. 690 00:34:48,718 --> 00:34:51,098 Oh, I thought you just meant, uh, turning the lights down. 691 00:34:51,853 --> 00:34:52,313 Kevin: no, no. 692 00:34:52,743 --> 00:34:53,033 Yeah. 693 00:34:53,033 --> 00:34:54,473 It's like we're going to this other place. 694 00:34:54,503 --> 00:34:55,353 It's really scary. 695 00:34:55,493 --> 00:34:58,753 It happens to be the exact same sets that were on every single week. 696 00:34:58,753 --> 00:34:59,793 We just turned off the lights. 697 00:34:59,903 --> 00:35:00,123 Rob: Yes. 698 00:35:00,273 --> 00:35:00,803 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 699 00:35:00,963 --> 00:35:03,483 I, yeah, I thought it was more a case of, well, we need to light 700 00:35:03,483 --> 00:35:06,963 everything really brightly because we are covering everything in, like, 701 00:35:07,073 --> 00:35:10,883 with multiple cameras and we don't have time to shoot it like a movie. 702 00:35:11,463 --> 00:35:14,843 Um, sort of like eighties Doctor Who, where they did multicam 703 00:35:14,843 --> 00:35:18,683 and all the fluorescent lights are on no mood lighting at all. 704 00:35:19,103 --> 00:35:21,003 But, uh, but yes, redress everything. 705 00:35:21,033 --> 00:35:23,723 Turn the lights down and go, Ooh, look at this new location. 706 00:35:24,883 --> 00:35:27,693 Kevin: Yeah, well I love a good creepy Star Trek. 707 00:35:27,773 --> 00:35:31,213 I even one, like, one that, uh, like tiptoes right up to the lines 708 00:35:31,633 --> 00:35:34,253 of horror trope, uh, for a week. 709 00:35:34,393 --> 00:35:38,933 But there is, I think Conspiracy is proof there is a line and you can cross it. 710 00:35:39,303 --> 00:35:42,273 Rob: Yeah, I am kind of intrigued to watch it now, you know, for all 711 00:35:42,273 --> 00:35:44,513 the, for all the wrong reasons, so, 712 00:35:44,813 --> 00:35:48,793 Kevin: It is for, it might be the schlockiest episode of Star Trek: The 713 00:35:48,793 --> 00:35:54,863 Next Generation of them all, and if you just wanna see how, how off track they 714 00:35:54,863 --> 00:35:56,543 can get, it's, it's worth watching. 715 00:35:56,653 --> 00:35:58,113 Rob: It sounds like a trauma film. 716 00:35:58,133 --> 00:36:02,153 It sounds very, you know, you know very much like, you know, that type 717 00:36:02,153 --> 00:36:08,353 of exploitation type of, uh, uh, and on a, on a TV show, what, 1987. 718 00:36:08,413 --> 00:36:09,073 That's wild. 719 00:36:09,544 --> 00:36:12,624 Kevin: I guess they got away with things because there just was not as much 720 00:36:12,784 --> 00:36:14,904 eyeballs on the work as there are today. 721 00:36:15,144 --> 00:36:15,434 Rob: Yeah. 722 00:36:15,494 --> 00:36:19,514 And it, the, they were able to, you know, they had time, they had 723 00:36:19,824 --> 00:36:22,874 seasons to find their feet, which we 724 00:36:22,894 --> 00:36:23,504 Kevin: They had time. 725 00:36:23,889 --> 00:36:24,179 Yeah. 726 00:36:24,249 --> 00:36:24,539 Yeah. 727 00:36:24,639 --> 00:36:27,859 We, I guess you're saying in modern Star Trek we've had 728 00:36:27,859 --> 00:36:29,339 time to work out the formula. 729 00:36:29,594 --> 00:36:29,814 Rob: Yes. 730 00:36:30,004 --> 00:36:30,294 Yeah. 731 00:36:30,444 --> 00:36:30,734 Well, 732 00:36:30,859 --> 00:36:34,619 Kevin: then in TNG, season one, right at the end of a ragged season, they were 733 00:36:34,819 --> 00:36:38,659 probably like, we, we know it sucks, but we just don't have any more time. 734 00:36:38,959 --> 00:36:41,379 Rob: But even at that time, they, they knew they were coming back 735 00:36:41,379 --> 00:36:43,939 for a second season, or they Yeah. 736 00:36:43,979 --> 00:36:44,629 I one assumes. 737 00:36:44,879 --> 00:36:45,939 So, like, you know, with. 738 00:36:46,909 --> 00:36:51,399 What the classic definition of old school Star Trek in that eighties, 739 00:36:51,639 --> 00:36:56,399 nineties era is that, you know, star, you know, um, d Space nine doesn't 740 00:36:56,399 --> 00:36:58,759 get good until say season four. 741 00:36:59,259 --> 00:37:02,239 Um, you know, Next Gen doesn't get good until season. 742 00:37:02,579 --> 00:37:04,639 It has a good episodes here or there still season three. 743 00:37:04,909 --> 00:37:05,199 Yeah. 744 00:37:05,659 --> 00:37:11,519 Um, but nowadays, you know, we barely have a season like 25 episodes, that's, 745 00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:13,559 that's, that's pretty much four seasons. 746 00:37:14,349 --> 00:37:14,639 Yeah. 747 00:37:14,674 --> 00:37:15,164 Kevin: exactly. 748 00:37:17,074 --> 00:37:20,214 Um, before we go this week, I just, I did wanna give you one more chance 749 00:37:20,234 --> 00:37:24,374 to talk about Jim Henson and his Muppets coming to Star Trek because 750 00:37:24,474 --> 00:37:28,574 the, that is a, that is smack d dab in the middle of your Venn diagram, Rob. 751 00:37:28,874 --> 00:37:32,924 Rob: Look it, it, look, we've, we talked about, you know, those one-off type of 752 00:37:33,064 --> 00:37:35,364 tropes when it comes to genre shows. 753 00:37:35,714 --> 00:37:41,644 Like we did not, uh, e uh, enjoy, uh, uh, um, the, the musical 754 00:37:41,674 --> 00:37:43,604 episode of, uh, season two. 755 00:37:44,104 --> 00:37:48,244 And that's become sort of like a common trope within genre shows 756 00:37:48,624 --> 00:37:49,924 and there has become a genre. 757 00:37:50,669 --> 00:37:55,139 Trait to have a puppet episode now when, when it was described? 758 00:37:55,489 --> 00:37:55,779 Yeah. 759 00:37:55,779 --> 00:37:58,179 Well, it's kind of like there, there was a puppet episode 760 00:37:58,179 --> 00:38:00,459 of, uh, Angel, um, where an. 761 00:38:01,214 --> 00:38:02,484 Angel turned into a puppet. 762 00:38:02,554 --> 00:38:03,244 Just Angel. 763 00:38:03,584 --> 00:38:08,964 And that's the last sort of like, fun episode before everything goes to hell. 764 00:38:09,504 --> 00:38:14,524 Um, in the, that's the, that's like the, one of the final four episodes of Angel. 765 00:38:14,954 --> 00:38:19,004 There's, um, during the gas leak year of Community, which is by 766 00:38:19,674 --> 00:38:22,244 default, a, um, a genre show. 767 00:38:22,704 --> 00:38:25,324 In season four, which is notoriously a bad year. 768 00:38:25,544 --> 00:38:27,724 Um, there's a puppet episode, which is horrible. 769 00:38:28,384 --> 00:38:34,604 Um, so to have a puppet episode, or as Akiva Goldsman, I think said 770 00:38:34,604 --> 00:38:36,684 it was, it was a Muppet episode. 771 00:38:36,684 --> 00:38:40,324 And I went, Ooh, that's, um, that's a very particular word. 772 00:38:40,504 --> 00:38:41,204 That's a promise. 773 00:38:41,424 --> 00:38:44,324 And then I saw the puppet and I went, it's a beautiful puppet. 774 00:38:44,544 --> 00:38:46,484 And it's clearly Anson Mount's voice. 775 00:38:46,784 --> 00:38:50,364 And then for them to announce Jim Henson's Creature Shop has 776 00:38:50,364 --> 00:38:53,004 created them, I went, I'm in. 777 00:38:53,224 --> 00:38:53,724 I'm sold. 778 00:38:54,074 --> 00:38:55,594 Kevin: I think the production value will be there. 779 00:38:55,814 --> 00:38:58,874 My, like, my expectations are low just because I don't have 780 00:38:58,874 --> 00:39:02,514 any particular attachment to Jim Henson's Muppets, other than it was 781 00:39:02,514 --> 00:39:04,034 a show I watched while growing up. 782 00:39:04,614 --> 00:39:05,234 But, uh. 783 00:39:06,389 --> 00:39:09,709 I expect the, the quality will be on the screen as far as production value. 784 00:39:09,929 --> 00:39:13,349 And if what you're looking for is the artistry, I'm sure it will be 785 00:39:13,349 --> 00:39:15,629 there in spades and really enjoyable. 786 00:39:16,169 --> 00:39:22,229 I'm a little worried it's gonna be another disposable, like thinly justified, um, 787 00:39:22,459 --> 00:39:24,989 hour of TV in an all too short season. 788 00:39:25,449 --> 00:39:28,789 And I worry what stories it will take us away from being able to tell. 789 00:39:29,289 --> 00:39:31,069 But um, yeah, I'm here for it. 790 00:39:31,099 --> 00:39:34,389 Like, far be it from me to, um. 791 00:39:35,779 --> 00:39:35,999 To 792 00:39:38,049 --> 00:39:40,079 judge Strange New Worlds from being strange. 793 00:39:40,149 --> 00:39:42,319 That is the, that is the mission of the show. 794 00:39:42,499 --> 00:39:45,319 And, you know, bring on the puppets, I say. 795 00:39:45,319 --> 00:39:47,479 If that's what you're trying to do with your show, this sounds 796 00:39:47,479 --> 00:39:48,599 like a great way to do it. 797 00:39:48,919 --> 00:39:53,159 I, I probably look forward to different Star Trek more, but, um, 798 00:39:53,639 --> 00:39:54,959 I look forward to be proving wrong. 799 00:39:54,959 --> 00:39:58,799 I mean, low expectations are the formula for being pleasantly surprised, they say. 800 00:39:59,009 --> 00:40:02,139 Rob: Well, getting in the pedigree that is the Jim Henson company, 801 00:40:02,289 --> 00:40:06,619 they, they are the best in the world at this type of puppetry. 802 00:40:06,919 --> 00:40:10,579 Uh, Jim Henson revolutionized how puppets, uh, conceived in the modern 803 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:16,849 era and pretty much made the television screen the, the, uh, the puppet stage 804 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:18,809 that they used to be trapped behind. 805 00:40:19,549 --> 00:40:24,689 And so he really mastered and taught all the people within his company how 806 00:40:24,689 --> 00:40:27,609 to puppeteer for a television screen. 807 00:40:28,189 --> 00:40:32,249 And, um, whether it's out on location that they revolutionized with The Muppet 808 00:40:32,249 --> 00:40:38,129 Movie, um, or, uh, in a studio with, with human actors interacting with puppets. 809 00:40:38,129 --> 00:40:39,449 So it'll be very interesting to see. 810 00:40:40,699 --> 00:40:43,859 I know the quality of the puppetry will be amazing, and I know that sounds like 811 00:40:43,939 --> 00:40:49,539 a very nerdy thing, but you can tell the difference of how a puppet comes alive if 812 00:40:49,539 --> 00:40:55,939 they're done by a high quality puppeteer or just, um, someone who is an enthusiast. 813 00:40:55,939 --> 00:40:59,694 And you've gonna get some of the best puppeteers in the world, you 814 00:40:59,694 --> 00:41:02,654 know, taking on these characters to see how they're represented. 815 00:41:02,874 --> 00:41:06,494 How they move, how they interact with the humans, if it is that type of episode. 816 00:41:06,764 --> 00:41:09,894 They're my, that's my favorite type of puppetry scenes where you have humans 817 00:41:10,374 --> 00:41:13,974 interacting with puppets and how humans are affected by puppets, but also 818 00:41:13,974 --> 00:41:15,334 how puppets are affected by humans. 819 00:41:15,334 --> 00:41:16,974 That's a beautiful world. 820 00:41:17,079 --> 00:41:18,759 Kevin: it looks, I, I look forward to seeing whether that 821 00:41:18,759 --> 00:41:20,159 happens or if it's just like snap. 822 00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:21,039 They're all puppets. 823 00:41:21,039 --> 00:41:21,319 Snap. 824 00:41:21,319 --> 00:41:21,999 They're all human. 825 00:41:22,104 --> 00:41:22,394 Rob: Yeah. 826 00:41:22,504 --> 00:41:27,309 It's gonna, well, we'll have to, it's a, it's a, and another season away. 827 00:41:27,409 --> 00:41:29,229 But, um, I, I've 828 00:41:29,259 --> 00:41:30,059 Kevin: late next year, I guess. 829 00:41:30,179 --> 00:41:33,189 Rob: I've always got my hopes up when the word Jim Henson is mentioned, so yes. 830 00:41:34,424 --> 00:41:36,234 Kevin: Well, uh, looking forward to it. 831 00:41:36,594 --> 00:41:39,634 I can't, one way or the other, I'm in suspense for what it will be. 832 00:41:39,999 --> 00:41:40,219 Rob: Yes. 833 00:41:40,219 --> 00:41:44,699 And I'm in suspense for, for our next episode directed by Mr. Jonathan Frakes. 834 00:41:45,384 --> 00:41:47,674 Kevin: Yeah, the, uh, the mystery hour. 835 00:41:47,834 --> 00:41:48,794 I look forward to seeing it. 836 00:41:48,974 --> 00:41:49,274 All right. 837 00:41:49,304 --> 00:41:52,114 Well, until next week, Rob, I'll see you around the galaxy. 838 00:41:52,299 --> 00:41:52,749 Rob: Take care. 839 00:41:52,749 --> 00:41:53,309 Have a good one.