Speaker 1 (00:00):
What if some of your biggest mistakes became your blueprint for the next business you build? After opening 168 markets on an expansion team, Marissa Carrio is building something new and she details for you what she's doing differently this time around. How her obsession with agent experience clarifies her new value proposition. How her team treats the first 90 days like an audition followed by continuous onboarding, re-recruiting, and segmented coaching, how they're leveraging AI and ISAs for relentless follow-up without sacrificing the human touch that builds trust in relationship. Plus, when you might consider expanding beyond your local market, how to avoid common pitfalls and why partnerships may be the industry's force multiplier in the years to come. Get all that and much more right now with Marissa Kenario on real estate team os 

Speaker 2 (00:56):
No matter where your business is today or where you want to take it, you'll get there faster and more profitably with an operating system. Welcome to Team Os, your guide to starting, growing and optimizing real estate team. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. 

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Marissa, it was great to meet you in person last month and it is wonderful to have you here on the show today. Welcome to Real Estate Team Os. 

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Thank you so much. It was great meeting you as well. That was actually one of, that was a really fun conference to speak at and obviously getting to meet you and having the opportunity to come tot os is fantastic 

Speaker 1 (01:30):
And you speak at a ton of conferences. I don't know how much that will come up. I feel like this could be a conversation kind of in two big parts, what you're building today and the distinction I think you have of opening more markets with Keller Williams than probably anyone else in history at 168. So there's a lot learned there that translates for a people in a variety of situations. So we'll get into all of that, but we're going to start where we always do Marissa, which is a must have characteristic of a high performing team. What comes to mind for you? 

Speaker 3 (01:59):
For me, the highest performing teams, rainmakers leadership, are obsessed with delivering the agent experience and the client experience. So the characteristic would be obsession. They wake up every single day with a problem to solve, a person to help, and there's just always something myself included that we're just running after and it is just a complete like you sleep, eat, breathe this stuff. And I think that to get to scale and to have the opportunity that we all want to create for agents and for clients, we have to be, 

Speaker 1 (02:39):
I really like the way that you introduced both of those, both experiences. I always think that they're completely interrelated, that you can't really separate the two, that the client experience will never be better than the agent experience potentially. I think someone might argue with me about that, but the unique thing about the folks that I have on the show, including you and the folks that listen to the show and communicate with me by email and other channels is that you have the distinct opportunity to dramatically influence both. The agent is primarily focused on client experience obviously, but share what you think is the relationship between the two and what is the common thread, what are a couple of things people should be thinking about or doing that will improve both of them based on the way that they relate to each other. 

Speaker 3 (03:23):
So I think that a lot of the time we are so busy delivering things, the value proposition to the agent that we forget that a lot of the reason agents join teams is because they also want help in leverage delivering the same exact type of value proposition to their client. And so for me it's equal obsession because we exist to not only help the agent but help the agent do more business repeatedly. And we talk a lot about database being goldmine and it 100% is, and so for me, the two of them are equally important and the reality is if an agent were to get out of the business, which we see happen a lot, that's still team business that they can earn referral revenue on. And so that is a relationship that we should be building no matter what and then participating together in partnership. So that's why I say that. 

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Cool. Love that. I teased a little bit about what I know about your background, but I would love for you to characterize your journey through the real estate industry however you like. 

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, so it happened on accident and I say that because there's really no accidents, but I do believe that it was something that I was never looking for. It kind of found me. I came, grew up in the car business, worked a seventh level or very large insurance agency of my own in the health insurance space and woke up one day and said, I don't think that this serves me anymore. I'm just going to go sell houses I had in college. It's how I paid tuition. And I said, you know what? I'm going back to selling houses. And I joined Keller Williams after about a year of being recruited and the team leader, Tom Martin, he actually recruited me to kw. He said, Hey, there's this opportunity, you're perfect for it. This guy's name is Cody Gibson. He's expanding and I think that you could really do cool things with him. 

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Just say yes to whatever the opportunity is. And I did. And what I said yes to was being an agent of the expansion team. And about six weeks later I was an area leader about six months after that, regional director year after that had the whole east coast and then shortly after that had the nation. So when I say it was kind of, I've always been a builder, but my journey in real estate is a little bit different than most I feel. And it just kind of kept escalating. I like to say in the best possible way, 

Speaker 1 (05:47):
What does it mean to have a region and have the coast and then have the nation. Just give a little bit of detail there. And I know we'll get into some specific learnings as we get deeper into the conversation, but just characterize what that means and what did that demand of you, what did you have to become or who did you have to become or what changes did you have to make to be successful as your perspective and purview and opportunity changed? 

Speaker 3 (06:12):
So initially when you take over or run a territory inside of an expansion organization, you're recruiting, you're coaching, you're kind of acting as in Keller Williams terminology, an operating principal and a team leader and a productivity coach and an executive level coach kind of all at the same time. And so I started in the north Florida area, so Jacksonville, Daytona Beach, I don't know that that required a ton of change for me because it was very similar to what I had been used to doing in the insurance business. And then all of a sudden we added the state of Georgia in the whole state of Florida and the states of the Carolinas. And so basically it was the same exact role, just ever expanding territory. And what that required of me, number one was learning different selling styles because what works in Florida definitely does not work in Virginia and what works in Virginia doesn't work in New York. 

Speaker 3 (07:09):
And so learning that and then the different type of agent and kind of catering coaching to that was really, really interesting. I did a lot of research on coaching, followed a lot of coaches. That was probably the most difficult for me, was kind of adapting to that style of coaching. I'm from Boston, lived in Florida, very direct and so had to learn that disc and all of the different things. And then of course different markets because you could be selling in one market where you're in multiples and you could be in another market where things are sitting for six months and they're both happening at the same time and you're coaching to that, you're budgeting to that, you're recruiting to that. And that's a really big shift. And I was on the road most of the year 

Speaker 1 (07:59):
In that journey. Did you have much time to stop and reflect? I can imagine a scenario where it's like go, go, go. And you had that in, you wanted to do it and so you were just go, go. Were you stopping and reflecting? Did you have any kind of guidance or mentorship or partnership that was crucial as you took on this additional kind of scope and responsibility? 

Speaker 3 (08:26):
It's funny, in the early days there wasn't a ton of reflection. It was a lot of growth. We went from zero to about 140 agents in eight months, just in the east coast region of the company. And so a lot of my time was relationship building, relationship building with agents, with leadership, city to city kind of thing to thing. And what really was the moment that really, really stood out, oh wow, it's time to reflect on what we've built is when COVID happened. Because overnight the travel stop, the speaking stopped recruiting went through the roof, which was really interesting, but it actually forced me to sit down and say, okay, we've built this really big, big organization and there are some pretty serious threats against it right now, and how do we evolve through that? And that's where I learned to actually take time to reflect and grow. 

Speaker 3 (09:24):
And then right after COVID is when I kind of stepped into the national role, which requires even more. So there was definitely a lot of reflection at that point. And as far as mentors, I mean Cody Gibson a hundred percent was very in it with me. And Michael Putnam was definitely someone that we all worked together really closely on mentoring one another other. And then of course some people outside of our expansion world as well. I followed Jeff Glover for years, really started getting really involved about a year ago, but listened to a lot of his stuff prior to that. 

Speaker 1 (10:04):
I would imagine. We're going to move on in just a minute, but I would imagine that in this period you were probably in front of a lot of different people in a lot of different ways and that was probably the foundation for what is your speaking style and your willingness and ability to speak often in lots of places. Is that true? And if so, what did you learn maybe about communicating with other people through this experience of expanding markets? 

Speaker 3 (10:33):
That is a hundred percent true. There was a lot of different personalities. There's a lot of right inside of a franchise system, every single location is different. So we could be recruiting in one city to two different leaders and offices. And so I developed a skillset very quickly of being able to change hats from leader to leader, leader to agent, new producer to mega producer. And I think that for me it was really, really interesting to kind of learn that. And like I said, I'm a high DD, high I personality. And so learning to adapt to somebody that maybe needed a little bit more information before we move forward on both sides or maybe somebody that had inexperience that wasn't the best and kind of saying, well, this is the way it's always been. It was really hard for me. It was really hard to adapt to that. 

Speaker 3 (11:34):
But I do think that it allowed me to become the speaker and coach that I am today because I learned how to meet just about anybody and everybody where they were and have a conversation where I could kind of learn to understand their viewpoint. So in the beginning though, it was very like, why wouldn't they want? Have you seen the value proposition? This is amazing. We can work together, we can do so well. And so many times it was breaks and I'm going, why? I don't understand. So I had to do a lot of learning there, but I do think it makes me very dynamic today and it's one of the things that I think I'm most grateful for from that journey. 

Speaker 1 (12:12):
One of the key phrases that you use there is meeting people where they are. It's one thing to say something, it's another thing to communicate something. And meeting people where they are is the best path obviously, to really getting through and making something constructive. So you're back in building mode, characterize Apex Realty Group, however you like. Where are you today? Where do you want to go? What's going on there? 

Speaker 3 (12:36):
Yeah, so Apex Realty Group was born over the summer. I had done this for my past life about seven years. And in April I hit a point where I thought, you know what? There has to be a little bit of change. And I kind of stepped back completely for a long time and it felt really, really awkward. I am not someone to kind of sit and let the idea come to me. I have not, 

Speaker 1 (13:07):
No, you don't strike me as that kind of person. 

Speaker 3 (13:09):
And I thought, you know what? I think if I don't do this, I'll really regret it because I have built a really cool thing and I think that at my core that's who I am and I want to go build another really cool thing. I just don't know what that looks like. And so Apex Realty Group, I moved to Wisconsin and there has never been, to my knowledge, a large expansion from the middle of the country. Typically it originates west coast. There are a few east coast. So that was number one for me. Wait a minute, there's not a lot of that out here. What if we could find a right? And so that's kind of where Apex was born and the idea of Apex is taking every single thing that I learned more of what I failed at in all honesty and correcting it. 

Speaker 3 (13:56):
And so I think that this is what's so exciting about Apex is it 100% will be an expansion network across the United States at some point right now it's going to be more regional based in the beginning. And I was looking at it and one day I just wrote down every single thing that I didn't do and that is how we built the value proposition. And so it includes my boyfriend. Scott is very much a big part of it. He is the operations brain thankfully because definitely have the vision. I'm the builder and he's really good at being like, okay, well that needs a system. And so he's building out that part. I'm kind of building out the sales and recruiting part. And really what we're looking at is what do agents need most today and what exactly did we do wrong before? I think that the mistake that sometimes gets made is we're trying to serve everybody and what I know is that I can't. And so this new team has a very, very specific value proposition and agent that we're seeking to work with. And we also made a really unique financial model that is totally different than what you typically see because I think that with all of the different opportunities out there right now, Zillow Flex, you've got a lot of other lead aggregators and opportunities. We have to be really competitive and provide that value stack still. 

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Okay, two things, well I guess three that I super love here. One that you already have your operations person 

Speaker 1 (15:37):
And you already know and trust each other in a really meaningful way. I think that's critical to really take anything to any meaningful scale. A visionary can only take it so far before the cracks start forming and it starts kind of crumbling in one corner or another. And the other is that you're so clear on your value prop and your essentially agent avatar or ideal agent or however you want to use that language, which I love this because it sets up exactly where I just a little behind the scenes for you and for other folks. I don't make a list of questions I want to ask people, but I do make a conversation outline. 

Speaker 2 (16:15):
And 

Speaker 1 (16:16):
The next thing on my outline is to talk about one of the biggest challenges that teams face, which is thoughtful, structured onboarding that's aligned with the recruiting message and the value prop. And so let's peel into that a little bit. Let's get into onboarding after we kind of get into what are some of the failures from the past that you're seeking to correct that have turned into a value proposition. And then from the agent avatar perspective, who is that a good fit for 

Speaker 3 (16:45):
Onboarding? And like you said, we'll get into that a little bit, however, that is probably for an expansion organization, one of the most important factors of your entire foundation, and it's also one of the most difficult to get correct. My whole mission is to have that Ritz Carlton onboarding experience. We show how excited we are to have you here exactly what's coming next. And it's a very in-depth experience because I think the mistake that gets made, I know the mistake that gets made is contract signed, stuff is set up, and then it's kind of whatever where I think that we just kind of work them into the system. And sometimes as a visionary, you think, well, obviously that's next, just get on this call. No, no, that's not right. And so onboarding to me is continual. And once I realized that that is a huge part, we are never not onboarding. 

Speaker 3 (17:42):
Every single day is a day of basically intention around re-recruiting our own agents. And I think that it's really important that we face it that way. So the new system has us in front of either my face, Scott's face every single day with some sort of tidbit, some sort of training, and here's what happens next. There's a lot of celebration around milestones. I think that as a high D, sometimes you're very much just onto the next in your own brain. And I forgot a lot of the time what true celebration, true meaningful celebration actually looks like. And so there's a lot of that. As far as value proposition, I mean I think that a lot of us offer transaction coordination, listing coordination, all of that is super important. And of course that will all be there. One of the things that I learned most is around leads. 

Speaker 3 (18:40):
And what's really interesting is that we always want to teach people to fish. However, in the new world of leads, I think both have to exist. And one of the biggest lessons I learned is that agents sometimes don't have the bandwidth to work something the way that they would need to get it to change. We know that right now the average lead takes 21 attempts on my local realtor in residence. So we're learning all kinds of things. And the average agent, if they're lead generating, if they're doing open houses, if they're going on showings, meeting with buyers, that's a huge flex even with automation. So the new value prop includes a lot of ISA assistance, a lot of automation and tools that will enable the agent to have charge of their own database that way, but also have a lot of assistance in their own database that way and have a lot of appointments set for them. Because I think that the aggregators have all been onto something for a few years and now we're there going, oh, that does work. That is a value piece. And the agents, in all honesty, love it. So that's a big piece of it for us, a big, big piece of it. And I wanted to have that really dialed in before we launched anything. 

Speaker 1 (20:06):
We've used the term or talked about the concept of re-recruiting and it's essentially staying in front of people, but this idea of onboarding or constantly onboarding is a little bit fresh. So I'd love to hear a little bit more of the philosophy and maybe a little bit of practice there. How is an agent who's six months in having a different but still onboarding type of experience versus one who is in the first 30, 60, 90, where does it kind of taper off and go into just ongoing education and relationship and celebration? I like that too. What is the difference between a 30, 60, 90 onboarding as most people know it, and maybe what are a couple of how you all do it based on what you've learned over the years, and then how does that transition but still continue into a different form? 

Speaker 3 (20:54):
So this is actually very interesting view inside of my brain. If you saw it in writing, you'd be amazed. It's like a whole notebook and then chat. GPT has probably a novel worth along with me. So how we onboarded was essentially right. It's interesting because you're onboarding through a market center and the team, so that's removing some of that friction in the new model. However, it's really important that in the beginning we're there every single day. And when you're not close to somebody, that's really difficult at times to do. So the 30, 60, 90 is the idea of, okay, it's day one, this is what we do on day one and we have a really solid outline of this is the systems we're going over, this is when new agent orientation is. This is what we expect you to do today because the 30, 60 90 typically applies to an agent who maybe doesn't know what that looks like. 

Speaker 3 (21:53):
We onboarded so many people that are like, okay, I'm a real estate agent now, right? And so the 30, 60, 90 is its classes, it's masterminds, it's an outline of the ideal day. This is what we do from nine to 11. A lot of the time we do it together because lead generation for a new agent is really scary. And so getting on a Zoom and everybody just going on mute and making their calls, but then if there is a problem, somebody can kind of ask a question or come off mute and somebody can hop in there and answer. So that's really a big part of the initial onboarding. And so that goes on for quite a while. There's call reminders, there's quick videos, there's emails and text messages that are just very checking in on how the day went. Did you make those 20 calls today? 

Speaker 3 (22:42):
All automated, by the way, go high level allows you to really, really do this. We did not have go high level before we attempted midstream, very hard to do. I would encourage anyone listening, research, different ways of onboarding. There's Monday, there's go high level, there's a whole bunch of things. Those are kind of the two though and get that locked in because if you try to switch midway, really difficult because there's always people in the stream and then they're going, well wait a second, why am I getting this? And then you're having to retrain your staff. So we are launching that with go high level, but the idea of essentially re-recruiting. And so after day 90, day 90 is like an interview, right? Days one to 90 are kind of the interview for your spot on the team. Yes, you're a member of the team, but we're really inducting you into, you just got behind the curtain on day 90, right? 

Speaker 3 (23:41):
Because the thing that we tend to do is we kind of accept behavior as we grow that might not be in line with the value prop and what we're actually looking for. And so what we're doing with Apex is the first 90 days is 100% your audition. And if at any time at the end of the 60 or at the end of the 90 you don't make it, okay, great, that's okay. And you can still be part of the brokerage, this might just not be the seat for you. And then what happens on day 90 is now we start a different level of coaching. Right now we start a different level of training. We start celebrating, did you make your number of contacts today? We do little certificates. There's celebration on the calls, right? First closing agent gets a gift because at day 90 we should be coming up on that. 

Speaker 3 (24:31):
We should be kind of in the realm of that. So we're celebrating first closing from WaPo, first closing from Zillow first. And so I think it's really important to do that because like me being a high eye as well, most agents are. And so celebrating that is really important and that's part of re-recruiting. But so is showing up and I think that coming in and sending a random video, checking in on them, giving them a call that's kind of off schedule, that's all part of it to check in on their experience because I do think that month six is the time when maybe it's not going quite the way we thought. I haven't closed 20 houses yet. What's happening here in this market? Maybe I'm having to make 20 more dials to get to the number I want and I'm tired. And so that gives us that access that we can start working on that with the agents before it becomes a problem. 

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Is there any variation in that first six months or so for let's just say I'm air quoting experienced agent, that means a lot of different things versus a new agent. Is there any variation there? Do you maybe break them out separately in masterminds? Obviously commingling experienced with new is probably helpful. How do you think about that aspect of it? 

Speaker 3 (25:49):
Yeah, so we commingle on sales calls. That's about it. Every single other thing is segmented because I think that the conversation, and a lot of the time what happens in network expansion is you're having the same conversation with the same group of people and half of your people are going, why are we talking about this? The other half of the people are going, well, I haven't even figured out how to log in to follow up boss yet. And the conversation is never in step with where anybody is. And so what we have done as we have segmented out what does coaching look like for each, we kind of have three buckets if you will, or we have new agent, we have experienced enough to be dangerous agent, and then we have kind of our more experienced or veteran agents. And what's interesting about that is that sometimes someone who's been in the business for 10 years may actually be going to the new agent training just based on numbers and what they need to know and learn. And so we have completely segmented out education. Like I said, we do the sales calls together, we do the celebrations together. But one thing why we added so much in celebration is because what I learned in the format we used to do is the same people we're winning the same awards over and over and over again, which is why we've added things like hitting numbers or getting your first Y Lobo or Zillow deal under contract because you start seeing the same faces and the agents are like, well, I can't ever get there. 

Speaker 1 (27:14):
I love the way that you're thinking about that segmentation. One thing I've probably said more than once on this show is experiences not expertise. So you may have been doing it for a decade, but that doesn't mean that you're as good as someone who's been doing it for two or three years who's dedicated themselves a different way, maybe had some more natural talent and is just out of the gates a little bit more successfully. So let's go to the ISA side. So when we kicked off TechT, which is a great five episode series featuring 10 guests, we turn September to Eptember on real estate team os. Episode one is with our mutual friend Tiffany Zenni. And I don't know if you know Kyle Draper building a team in Southern California with LBT, but they both talked a bit about AI voice and texting via Y LO O-T-C-P-A compliant of course. Talk about ISA. Are you leveraging some of those AI-based tools? Just talk about what you're trying to do for an agent from an ISA perspective. 

Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, so a hundred percent utilizing AI, text and voice as well as the maverick system. And so I'll get a little bit into that. I believe that, and I'm a full convert. I was not super sure about ai. We've worked with a couple of lead generation companies and I was never really sold because it would work and then the client or potential client would answer and it would just kind of veer off completely away from their answer. And so when I sat down with G, he showed me how it worked and I said, oh, this is something another on version three or four of this. And it's so incredibly smart and one thing that we've learned is that an agent cannot stay in touch with their database at the level that the AI can. It's just not possible. The AI's only function in its existence is to get people to answer. 

Speaker 3 (29:07):
And so one of the big things for us is a hundred percent utilizing that. There's a huge focus on agent training though because I think agents start to lean sometimes a little heavily on it, which is why the ISAs exist, right? Because the agents are expecting at times we have seen where it's like, well, it didn't get me the appointment. Well, it's not existing to get you the appointment. It got you every ounce of the backstory. You just saved yourself two hours worth of conversation and dragging it out of somebody Exactly why they're looking to sell exactly where they're looking to go. I mean, we've seen conversations so in depth with the AI that we don't even have to really ask a lot of questions going in. It's more statement of fact. So I think that that gives us a ton of leverage in getting to the ask for the appointment. 

Speaker 3 (29:57):
It becomes a lot faster. I also think that as far as Maverick, that's a game changer. The whole maverick system gives us so much more insight. I can see that Joe agent is four days behind on leads where prior we were having to maybe pay a VA to do that. And so now I can nudge people, which is one of my absolute favorite things. We can not only listen to their calls but grade them. And so we're able to coach a lot more meaningfully because we can grab a phone call that they scored a two on and have a conversation and compare it to the conversation that they had a 10 on and just have them go through that self-actualizing coaching. And so those have been absolute game changers in both systems. And for me, I think that if you're not utilizing it, you're missing a really big opportunity. And I think now with the partnership with Zillow, it allows, Maverick has been a game changer for Zillow teams because they actually have a lot more insight into the database and can help the scores. And so for us it's important to have all three. 

Speaker 1 (31:13):
What do you think in general, what are some things agents should always be doing in getting better at? And what are some things that you think agents are still doing? Because when you were talking a little bit about it didn't set the appointment of like you triggered my get off my lawn guy, you don't know how it used to be, that kind of thing. Today in going forward and as you're designing Apex and building out all these systems, what are some aspects of the agent's role that you think are super important to always stay focused on, to spend time on, to truly become expert at? And what are some things that you hope fall away and that you're looking to continue to provide leverage behind agents so that they can be in those better functions? 

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Agents have to be continually improving their in-person presence. I think that sometimes what we hear is that we have AI to utilize these tools for us, where in my mind AI is the best leverage you could possibly have and it actually makes you more powerful in person. And so one of the things that we really push agents to work on is what is my presence out in the world? How am I communicating with my community? Am I going to real estate events or am I going to community events? And for me, I put a huge emphasis on utilizing the ai. A thousand percent use it. Obviously we use it with F and ypo, use it in your social media posting, use it in your blog posting, but do not allow yourself to be replaced. In fact, get out there more because in-person influence, I mean this is an in-person business and so augmenting the AI superpowers that, but I think it's really important that agents get more into that. 

Speaker 3 (32:56):
And so what's interesting is that a lot of the time the phone was the piece a few years ago where it's like, pick up the phone please. We have to contact people. Now it's pick up the phone and get out there in the community, host things, promote yourself, do those sorts of things. I'd love to see more of that. And what I would love to see less of is kind of hiding behind the computer or the keyboard. And that's one of our biggest focuses because people, you don't take market share, you don't. I think that it has become really easy to accept a lead, work it and then go close it. But traditionally that's not how it always works. And so we have to get out there and have more of those conversations. So our big thing is using the leads but also high touch. We do physical thank you cards. I actually got this idea from Jim Hill at Y Lobo. People put in their address for the seller report, sending them a thank you card with a QR code to their seller report. We do a lot of that high touch if we have their birthday doing that stuff. It's really, really important. On top of everything else, 

Speaker 1 (34:08):
I love it. I really appreciate the balance of the scalable and unscalable. I mean, what is unscalable is what truly builds trust and relationship. I think the phrase you used was like behind the computer or behind the laptop or behind the keyboard or whatever. All of that can be faked and multiplied and automated and synthetic and artificial, et cetera. Not that it can't be done well, and not that those tools can't be used properly, but the thing that does not scale is me getting out and talking with you and having a conversation that does include maybe a lot of real estate but maybe includes other things as well. And if you're talking about leaving an impression, building real trust and having people want to say, oh, you got to talk to her or you got to talk to him. If you want to be that person, the emotional connection that's built there and the way that it triggers memory and recall can't be faked and it also can't be flat or synthetic. 

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Super good. Okay. I want to switch topics really quickly before I run out of time asking you a bunch of follow-ups on what we've already covered. For you, designing a new organization with expansion in mind is natural because you've done it for years and you've done it at a very high scale and you've learned a ton along the way. But I know that there are people watching and listening. We've had folks on the show that maybe opened in this market and then expanded into these two other markets. And I know that there are folks watching and listening that are wondering, is this for me? What's the right step? How do I know when my foundation is strong enough that I can expand it to another market? And essentially I have my business boxed up and I can run some of it centrally, but then I can decentralize aspects of it and put it into adjacent cities or even adjacent states, but I don't know when I'm ready for that. I don't know what exactly it takes when is go time. So start wherever you like with should I consider expanding? What questions do you have for me to help me say yes or no? 

Speaker 3 (36:10):
So expansion is really interesting. I tried one market. I really did. I was like, I'm going to just one market. And there was nothing wrong with that. It's amazing. Huge, huge teams are based in one market, and ultimately what I discovered is it's not who I am. And one of the things that I think you really have to ask yourself is are you slightly irrational? And when I say that it's one of those, do you dream so big that you can't possibly keep it in one location? Do you keep going back to, oh, if we did this, I'm in Milwaukee, so if we did this in Milwaukee, I could stretch an arm to Madison, but then maybe I could also go to Chicago, which is close to Indy, which is close to Cincy. I could also go to Detroit while I'm there. That's just kind of how my brain works. And so when you're thinking about agents and deliverability, are you thinking bigger constantly? Because what I can tell you is if that thought keeps creeping in, it's never going away. And when I say irrational, it kind of is irrational. My mom is an agent and she still asks what I do for a living, and I don't think she's like, I just don't understand. I don't get it. I'm pretty sure she thinks it's not legal, right? I am confident and I think that 

Speaker 1 (37:30):
At a minimum it's not a real job. 

Speaker 3 (37:33):
Yeah, what are you doing? Why don't you just sell houses yourself in the market you're in? I mean, yes and right. I think that you also know if you're ready for expansion by your network. And so I know a lot of people who have this massive referral network, and if you can create, to your point, Ethan, a business in a box, if you can create scale around that, it's a lot better for them to be in your world than outside of your world. There's a lot more controllable there, and I know so many agents with such a huge network, you go into any of these referral groups, you see the same people recommending the same people all the time. That's because that's your network. So I would look at that too, because if you are not known as well by agents in an area, it'll be very, very hard to scale. 

Speaker 3 (38:17):
So that would be my next thing is when you're determining a market to go to next, who do I know? Because for me, I know literally nobody in upstate New York and when I think about it, I'm like, I know a ton of people in Florida, so it makes a lot more sense. And so I would urge you to ask yourself when you're thinking of this, the next thing to ask yourself is are you willing and able to fail and fail a lot because there is no room for ego inside of expansion? None. Because it will get trampled every day. It's one of those things where it's like, oh, I really thought that was going to work, and then you're like, and it didn't even come close. It didn't even tick. No one even. Yeah. So you have to be really willing to learn and fail a lot and you have to in a local team, but when you branch out different states, different rules, you have to be ready. 

Speaker 3 (39:21):
You also have to have some money because things happen in other states and you will mess up occasionally as much research as you do. I'll tell you, the most litigious and hardest state in the country from a board perspective is actually Louisiana, not California. And so you learn things like that. And so I would urge anybody that is looking at that to start looking at barriers to entry as well. Like Mississippi, the team needs its own broker, even if there's one in the market center or office. So you just definitely have to be sure to work through that as well. Those are really big questions that need really big answers before you could decide to just jump in. 

Speaker 1 (40:01):
It's funny, I had Sam Ian on the podcast recently, and your irrationality was, I think he described it as pigheaded determination, and that blends your own what you shared on this irrationality around big vision, it's never going to go away. You got to start honoring it, but then at the same time, you have to be prepared to mess up a ton. And so anyway, pig had a determination came to mind as you were describing. 

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Oh, things are true. And I love Sam, and Sam has really done it too. I mean, I actually just heard him speak and to watch what they have done with big block is absolutely incredible. 

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like I'm going to turn this into one big question. I feel like I've had a number of folks on the show like you and Sam, I thinking of Keith Anderson with space, these folks that are really looking, it's not, I'm bored of being a top organization in my market. I have this vision that I want to improve. Going back to even what's compelling you, you have a very clear vision about what client experience and agent experience should be like and the way that those should work together to make better, happier clients and better, more successful agents and hopefully happier agents too. And for you, part of that is it's not going to be a thing unless I can take it into the markets where it makes sense for me to take it and keep going and learn and fail and learn and fail. 

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Fortunately for you and for our viewers and listeners, you have a lot that you've learned in your past experience that you can bring to that. So you'll probably fail in different ways and maybe fewer ways or bigger ways. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. But what do you think about the future of teams in general in light of the idea that people are thinking team, not just to dominate Orlando, Florida, but to dominate the southeast United States everywhere where I have a friend or a partner, is that a thing or is that just one or 2% of you who are like, this is how I need to do it? 

Speaker 3 (42:11):
I think that the evolution of the team, a hundred percent increases the one to 2% to more like 10 to 15% in the next 10 years or so. And why I say that I think that the general direction of the industry is we're seeing it mergers, acquisitions everywhere. And what I think will end up starting to happen will be a really successful team at the border of Wisconsin for instance, can sell in Minneapolis, they can sell twin cities. And so they're up against some threats and they say, oh hey, big huge team in Minneapolis, why don't we join forces? And I think that's how you're going to see a lot of expansion start to accidentally happen. In all honesty, I think that probably the thinking isn't to expand as much. I think that's still kind of that one to 2% type of personality thinking. But I do think that it will start to happen organically more and more over time as we start to see expense go up to run teams. 

Speaker 3 (43:13):
As we start to see lead sources are becoming more and more expensive all the time, I think you'll see a lot that way. And so I think that in the next 10 years or so, you'll start to see far more teams growing in space-wise. Funny that I said space after you said space, but that's a great name. Literally, I actually just spent the week with Keith and Isaac. I was like, that is the best name ever because it's just used so commonly. We all just kind of use it all over the place. And I think that we'll start to see that more and more. I do think that the people who are expanding will become larger than a lot of brokerages. And why I say that, I believe that teams are just going to keep, like I said, rolling into other teams and becoming larger and larger. And I think the expansionists that are out there today, no matter the brokerage are just going to get larger and larger and in some cases larger than the entire brokerage that they're part of. 

Speaker 1 (44:09):
How much of your either future growth or in your past experience was kind of m and a type activity partnerships and things versus we have a good leader here, let's plant and kind of grow and hard recruit into it, et cetera. I know I opened up a whole separate conversation at the end of this one, but what was that split or is there a path that is more obvious or more right for a particular type of person? 

Speaker 3 (44:36):
It's both. And what I will tell you is that I am very slow to learn sometimes. And so I built the entire initial team by hand with solo agents and Abe Shrieve, I'll never forget it on a call, he said, you are literally a stick of dynamite that's burning at both ends, and we're just hoping that we don't go like this. I would not suggest it as a model to follow. It worked at great expense to me. And I think that the m and a space, some of the best locations and launches that we ever had were with m and a teams. And so we were not a team that did a ton of m and a, but where we did it, grand Junction, Colorado, SoCal and Hawaii, we had a lot of very early success and we didn't have to go through a lot of the growing pains that we had. 

Speaker 3 (45:32):
And there's so many, I think the perfect identity for that. Somebody who runs a three to six agent team, they already have leadership, they already have some influence in the community that they're in. Typically they don't really want to do it anymore, but they do like aspects of leadership. And so that is kind of the avatar that we are seeking today. And then recruiting, either they recruit or we recruit to them, but then we kind of have that solid culture there on the ground that saves you about a year and a half of work and a whole lot of heartache. And so that's important to me because if you say, okay, I'm going to Atlanta and you hire an agent in Atlanta and there's nobody else there for them, agents are very social creatures. And I think that we tend to, okay, well we've got this agent, we're ready to fly. No, you really need at least two to three, maybe four. That is for me a huge, huge way to do it. And they don't typically lose their identity. Typically a small team owner has a bigger revenue opportunity with you than they currently have just because of the environment that we're in. And so I think it's a mix of both, and I can tell you I got the certification in doing it the other way and never again. 

Speaker 1 (46:52):
Yeah. Okay. So much good stuff there. I so appreciate your time, Marissa, this has been fantastic. I do have three fun pairs of closing questions, and I do want to let folks know where to reach out to you, whether it's for coaching, whether it's just for connection, whether it's whatever they're motivated by. So the first fun question, I think it's fun anyway, is what is your very favorite team to root for team of any kind besides Apex or what is the best team you've ever been a member of besides Apex? 

Speaker 3 (47:20):
So my favorite team to root for, I've got to tell you, I mentioned Jeff Glover earlier in this interview, and I have been a huge fan of watching them build because they do exactly what they teach. If you want to see a person who practice what you preach is absolutely a hundred percent instilled in your business, it's Jeff. And so watching them grow a thousand units a year in the state of Michigan, and they're doing it exactly from the way he's talking about it on stage inside of Glover U. And I have a ton of respect for that because it doesn't happen a lot and it's not purposefully not happening, it's that there's so much going on that we tend to sometimes come off of that. And they are fiercely protective of practicing what they preach, and I love that. And their agents stay and they are happy, and it's just a really cool thing to witness. 

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Yeah, I love it and I love that essentially the integrity that you highlighted there, like the consistency throughout it. What is one of your most frivolous purchases or what's a cheapskate habit you hold onto even though you probably don't need to? 

Speaker 3 (48:36):
I purchase a lot. I like to buy things, but I am cheap. So you know how a paper towel roll or like a toilet paper roll, you better utilize every last scrap of that if you 

Speaker 1 (48:50):
Yeah, I know that last piece has glue on it. Put it to work 

Speaker 3 (48:53):
A hundred, that is 10 cents. And we go through how many of these as a house of six? Come on. And so I am, if I see, the other day I was walking through the kitchen and somebody had thrown away a bounty roll and there were two, you know how they have, it literally just causes me to just my eye twitches and I'm going, these things cost money, do you think? Right? And the kids are like, well, I think we're going to be okay. I'm like, no, you don't understand. This is a big deal. So that for me is everybody makes fun of me for it. I am really cheap like that same thing with anything in a bottle, like a lotion or cream or ketchup. I don't care. You are going to empty that bottle a hundred percent. We bought it. 

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Yeah, you have not leveraged gravity well enough. We're going to solve this issue a hundred percent. There is a way to penetrate this bottle even after to cut the top 

Speaker 3 (49:50):
Off conditioner. My daughter the other day was like, I can't get my conditioner to squeeze out. I'm like, put some water in it, shake it up. There's some left in the bottom. 

Speaker 1 (49:57):
A pro move. You know what the bottom of a shampoo bottle with that move becomes a body wash. 

Speaker 3 (50:02):
Exactly. So that's two things. But those things, I don't care how much success there is or how financially stable we are, that will never leave me. 

Speaker 1 (50:14):
That's amazing. Okay. Now that you're not a stick of dynamite burning at both ends, how do you invest your time? What does it look like for you to invest time in resting, relaxing and recharging? Or what are you doing? What does it look like? What are you doing when you are investing time in learning, growing and developing? 

Speaker 3 (50:30):
So I have four children, so rest and relaxation is not really on the list. Three of them play sports and other one's going to be a senior next year. So that looks a little different these days. So we'll go with growth. I spend a lot of time challenging myself. I used to learn only about business. I read I'm a voracious reader, and I would tend to only do business stuff. And so what I've challenged myself for is a lot of different, I've learned a lot from Jay Shetty. I've learned a lot from Joe Dispenza actually doing a Joe Dispenza retreat. So it's so important for me to continually learning about me and kind of my development, but also if I'm building this big, big empire that helps people achieve their dreams, who do I have to become to do that? And so I've spent a lot of time on psychology, a lot of time on kind of motivation and success habits to the point where business reading, training, learning has, it's still there, but it's actually more on the development side now. And I am a firm advocate of that. That's huge for me. 

Speaker 1 (51:41):
I love that. I feel like you're going upstream of success. And same thing for me. I mean, I used to spend a ton of time reading business books kind of at the intersection of kind two zones, business and communication and psychology and a little bit of business and sustainability. But then when you kind of step out in, it's not just in a business context, I feel like you're going upstream and you can tie the threads all back anyway and apply it all kind of downstream as you need to. So I love that. I love to hear that. Okay. Where should someone, now that they've spent all of this time with us, where should they go to connect with you, learn more about you, engage you in any particular way? 

Speaker 3 (52:22):
Probably the easiest is my Instagram. Super simple. It's just Marissa Kario is just at, and then M-A-R-I-S, S-A-C-A-N-A-R-I-O. 

Speaker 1 (52:32):
I feel like that's increasingly becoming the answer. It's just Instagram go find. So linked up down below, if you're watching on Spotify or listening on Spotify, if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, if you're watching on YouTube, if you're watching or listening on the website, realestate team os.com, I have a bunch of stuff linked up right down below, including Marissa Rio on Instagram, two Rs, one n, first name, last name. It's all linked up down below. We mentioned some other guests, some mutual friends of ours that have been on the show, and some of those conversations and the nature of them, those are all linked down below. It's all down below in the description, wherever you're watching or listening. 

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Alright. Well, and actually a really cool thing I found this new company, it's called Pop Store, and it's like a link tree except it's built for real estate. So when you go to my IG page, there's actually my phone number. All of my fun videos are on there because we like to play around with social media lately and do some fun stuff so that we'll give you more information once you're there. 

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Awesome. So I'm not going to link that company up. What I'm going to do is send you to Marissa's Instagram where you can experience it for yourself. Marissa, this has been awesome. I appreciate you. There's so many questions I still have for you, so we'll have to do it again. And I wish you continued success getting this new build to the place that you really want it. 

Speaker 3 (53:46):
Thank you so much for having me, and I can't wait to come back. This has been a great conversation. 

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Thanks for checking out this episode of Team Os. Get quick insights all the time by checking out real estate team os on Instagram and on TikTok.