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Rupert Isaacson: Welcome
to Equine Assisted World.

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I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.

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New York Times bestselling
author of the Horse Boy.

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Founder of New Trails Learning
Systems and long ride home.com.

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You can find details of all our programs
and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.

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Here on Equine Assisted World.

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We look at the cutting edge and the best
practices currently being developed and,

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established in the equine assisted field.

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This can be psychological, this
can be neuropsych, this can be

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physical, this can be all of the
conditions that human beings have.

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These lovely equines, these beautiful
horses that we work with, help us with.

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Thank you for being part of the adventure
and we hope you enjoy today's show

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Welcome back to equine assisted world
where we talk to people who are at

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the cutting edge of this remarkable
profession that we're in with horses

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helping people physically, mentally,
emotionally, spiritually never has.

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The world of therapeutic stuff with
horses being as interesting as it is

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now, now that we understand so much
about the nervous system, the brain and

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knowing more with each year, as more
and more studies come out what started

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as just adapted riding for people with
physical disabilities 60 years ago has

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now evolved into a mosaic that can be very
confusing for many people, and our job is

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to shine a light on the people that are
out there doing really interesting work.

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So I'm talking to one
of these people today.

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She's Shae Stewart and she lives in Texas.

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And interestingly up until now,
up until this interview what we've

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been emphasizing on Equine Assisted
World has been the work that people

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are doing with people, with horses.

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We haven't really touched much
yet, but we will be doing more

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and more on the wellbeing of
the horse that does this work.

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Because of course, is having to.

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deliver well being to a human, to
a monkey, well, it's got to have

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well being itself, otherwise it
will have no well being to give.

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And we know that, that traditionally, in
the therapeutic riding world All that was

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really asked of a horse was to be quiet.

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But if a horse was aching, if a horse
was hurting, if a horse was sour wasn't

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really considered to be a problem because
as long as it was just safe and quiet.

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Now of course more and more we want
our horses to be athletes, to be

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happy, to be healthy and to be joyous.

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in their movement, which means that
they've got to be really treated

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the same way that you would treat a
competition horse, just with less stress.

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And this is something that's creeping
in more and more to the therapeutic

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world, the realization cropped,
lame, arthritic horse is not going

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to be able to do the job very well.

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And also it's just not right to make
a horse like that, carry people around

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on their backs or do that sort of work.

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However, there's much that can be done
with horses that are aching in pain and

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so on to put them right and to get them
good in their bodies and their minds

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again, so that they begin to dance again.

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And we certainly do that with
Horseboy Method and Athena, our

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programs with a massive emphasis on
the work in hand and long reining.

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And lunging when appropriate to muscle
the horses up and get their brains going

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again and rejuvenate them effectively.

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But there's more to it than just that.

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And Shae Stewart, who's on today is an
equine craniosacral person who does this.

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Very successfully all over the place,
and I first heard her on Warwick

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Schiller's journey on podcast and
then was lucky enough to meet her

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and hear her at last year's the 2022
journey on podcast in Washington, D.

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C.

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In San Antonio, she was riveting and she
and Jim Masterson were both talking about

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ways of physical and neurological well
being for the horses that do our jobs.

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And I realized that when I went and
had conversations with other people

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out in the equine assisted world,
well, yes, osteopathy and having

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the horse chiropractor out, people
are good about doing that kind of

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thing these days, mostly still not
as much as I would like to see.

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But the idea of craniosacral work,
it's quite new to a lot of people.

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It's not new to me because when my
autistic son Rowan was at his most severe.

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We did a lot of cranial sacral
work and for sure it helped.

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We saw major neurological
advances as a result of that.

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So I do think it's something
that any of us who are in this

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field should know more about.

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And we have an expert here
to take us through it.

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So Shea, thank you for coming
on Equine Assisted World.

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Shae Stewart: Thank you for having me.

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It's so nice to see you
and talk to you again.

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And I look forward in our conversation.

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It takes me a minute to warm up to these.

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So,

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Rupert Isaacson: yeah.

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By the way, for the listeners, Shay
is famously and charmingly shy.

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So my job is to dance around in front
of her in a pink gorilla suit and to

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make her laugh so that she will relax.

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So I'm just putting on my pink gorilla
suit now and I'm doing my little

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dance and there she's laughing.

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Good.

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That's good.

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So Shay to put you out of your
misery, can you help us understand

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what is cranial sacral work?

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What is it?

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Shae Stewart: That is the most
common question I get, and even in

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my classes, people ask me, how do we,
how do we explain this work to people?

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First of all, there are different concepts
in within the craniosacral world, and so

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it depends on who you ask will that will
determine what answer you get about what

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is it, but it is a form of body work.

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It's very gentle.

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It's when you watch it, it may appear
that the practitioner is not doing much.

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It's sort of like watching
somebody read a book.

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There's not much going on on the outside,
but there's a lot happening on the

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inside and we focus on in simple terms,
we focus on relieving compressions and

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the craniosacral system, which is the
skull, the spine and the sacrum and all

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the dura that's attached to these bones.

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What are

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Rupert Isaacson: dura?

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Excuse me?

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What are dura?

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Shae Stewart: Dura is...

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It's like fascia that attaches
to the inside of the skull bones

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and it's what the spinal cord is
made of and it's all connected.

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So, so the dura that's attached underneath
the skull comes out to through the

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base of the skull and goes all the
way down the spine and ends around

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the , second sacral vertebrae and that
Entire piece is, is all connected.

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It's like its own form of fascia
and that's where cerebral spinal

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fluid runs up and down the spine.

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So we work on relieving bone
compressions and pressures on the dura

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that help the nervous system
function in a balanced state.

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And it helps the flow of cerebral spinal
fluid because that can get disrupted

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with any kind of head compression.

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That's basically like a short answer,

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Rupert Isaacson: right?

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So presumably if we're sitting on a
horse's spine, we're going to with

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the best will in the world over the
years, put some sort of stress on it.

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Just as if we're wearing a rucksack every
day of our lives, we're going to put some

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wear and tear on our backs as humans.

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Right.

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And I presume that if
we were wearing helmets.

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Every day of our lives or something
like that with a chin strap or

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something, we would inevitably cause
some sort of changes in our cranial

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skull to neck attachment areas, right?

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And I presume it must be the same
for a horse that people aren't

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necessarily going out to hurt their
horses and they might be trying to

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look after their horses very well.

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But if one is going to sit one's
monkey butt on a horse's spine

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and put something on his head.

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To help to balance direct and do
all the other things a bridal does,

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presumably, even with the best kept
horses, there's going to be a benefit to

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alleviating those cumulative pressures.

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Now, yes,

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Shae Stewart: yes, just the
nature of how we handle horses.

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We're putting pressure on their
heads, even if we're the most

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gentle soul on the planet.

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We're still putting pressure on their
head if we're riding them, we're putting

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pressure on their spine and their muscles
that attach directly that in the base

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of the skull that attached directly to
the spinal cord directly to the Dura.

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So, anytime a horse pulls against
pressure, pulls back while tied

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has something holding their
head down, you're going to.

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Anytime the fascia, the superficial layer
of fascia gets tight, you're, you're

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going to restrict the deeper layers.

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Rupert Isaacson: Let's just assume
that not everybody listening here

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knows these anatomical terms.

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A lot of people will know what fascia is.

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But some people may not.

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What is

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Shae Stewart: fascia fascia?

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There's there's different
layers of fascia.

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A simple way to look at it.

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It's like, a living, moving layer
that's the superficial layer is.

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Like a skin suit, kind
of, before our skin.

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The

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Rupert Isaacson: tissue that we find
under the skin when we skin a deer.

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That white stuff.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So it seems to hold it all in place a bit.

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Shae Stewart: Yeah, kind of
between the skin and the muscle.

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If you're peeling that apart and
you can see that, that layer that

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kind of keeps it all together.

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That's the fascia.

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And then there's different layers of it.

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So that would be superficial.

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And then there's a middle
layer and then a deep layer.

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That holds all the guts in place.

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And

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Rupert Isaacson: how
deep is the deep layer?

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Are we talking inches?

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Are we talking centimeters

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Shae Stewart: inches?

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It's deep within the body.

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Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

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So to work down the levels, you
really, you would have to go as deep

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as your thumb or as deep as your
hand or something like that to reach

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the stuff.

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Or is it not that deep?

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Shae Stewart: In a horse, if you
went to the deep layer, say, like

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the mesentery sack, which is the
sack that holds the intestines.

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So that would be, I don't
know, a hand, hand width deep

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Rupert Isaacson: or something.

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I mean, it's good for people to get
these for the, by the way, for those

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listeners who were not listening to
our conversation before we hit record

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it's nice to live in Texas, the whole
Texas thing about holding horses sacks.

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Yeah.

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Sacred.

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Holden Amholster Sachs again.

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Well, shame on you.

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I've

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Shae Stewart: been out
doing that sacral stuff.

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Rupert Isaacson: That sacral stuff.

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So, okay.

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So what is the job of fascia?

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What does it do?

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Why is it important?

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Shae Stewart: Fascia?

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Well, you can even go deeper and
in a deeper sense of fascia and,

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and call lymph, blood, cerebral
spinal fluid, like a liquid fascia.

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I

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Rupert Isaacson: would say
cells effectively, right?

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Hmm.

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Cells.

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Cells that make up the
matter of, of our organism.

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Yes.

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Shae Stewart: Yes.

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It's like a living, its own living,
breathing, moving substance within

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our system that, that moves fluid.

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Some people say it's, that's what
our acupressure or acupuncture

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channels are through the fascia

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Rupert Isaacson: and.

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So fascia, back in the days before
people thought about this sort of

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thing and we just thought, well,
if you were stiff or old or you had

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an injury or you just toughed it
out and we all grew up that way.

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I think we've all grown up toughing
out our injuries and those of us

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who've spent a lifetime on and around
horses have been knocked around a

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fair bit and have bits of our body
that have taken some, some knocks.

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One of the things which I realized in
the last, I'm 56 now the last time I

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gave myself a goodly smash was actually
not that long ago, I broke two ribs,

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but that doesn't, almost doesn't count.

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But I, That's

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Shae Stewart: a true

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Rupert Isaacson: first person.

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Yeah.

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That was just in May, but it's
gone away now, so instant amnesia.

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The, but I did something to my knee.

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In 2018, which took a long time to come
right and I couldn't ignore it anymore.

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The pain was keeping me up at night and
then I realized that the, the pain wasn't

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really coming from the knee at all.

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It was actually coming
from further down the leg.

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And someone pointed out to me that
maybe having the fascia there loosened

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up and stretched out a bit might help.

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And I went to someone to have that done.

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And.

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Indeed, the pain went away and
when it comes back, I sort of now

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know what to do to do that thing
in the side of my side of my calf.

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So I realized firsthand that as an older.

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rider.

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How useful and important these
things could be, which made me

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think about my horses, of course.

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And I'd always been, you know, someone
who would get the back quack out.

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I like to have the chiropractor come
to look at my horses every six weeks

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or so, because they do a lot of work.

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I like to give them the TLC I can
give them just because I love them.

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But I am now leaning more towards doing
stuff with their with their cranios

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their their cerebral spinal fluid,
which of course is the craniosacral

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work, because through one of our
programs, Movement Method, we've

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realized the importance of this.

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Can you talk to us about craniosacral
fluid and what its job is?

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In the mammalian body is and why it's
so important that it has a free flow

00:15:21.705 --> 00:15:23.285
backwards and forwards along the spine,

00:15:24.835 --> 00:15:26.425
Shae Stewart: Cerebral spinal fluid.

00:15:27.745 --> 00:15:34.285
Well, to backtrack a little bit,
the, the craniosacral, the form

00:15:34.285 --> 00:15:37.095
of craniosacral that I focus
on is biodynamic craniosacral.

00:15:39.085 --> 00:15:39.395
Okay.

00:15:39.445 --> 00:15:39.525
Rupert Isaacson: What

00:15:39.525 --> 00:15:40.045
Shae Stewart: does that mean?

00:15:40.995 --> 00:15:45.515
We, we get deep into the fluid body.

00:15:46.935 --> 00:15:55.845
So we, we do cover a lot of
embryology when we're studying.

00:15:56.745 --> 00:16:01.965
And we, so the way we look at the
body is when you're an embryo.

00:16:04.395 --> 00:16:14.825
We're a fluid filled sack and this fluid
has intelligence and this intelligence is

00:16:14.925 --> 00:16:19.585
us that we, we basically create ourselves.

00:16:19.825 --> 00:16:23.825
So, this intelligence knows what
we're going to be, what we're going to

00:16:23.825 --> 00:16:28.295
form into and so the biodynamic work.

00:16:28.985 --> 00:16:29.315
And

00:16:29.505 --> 00:16:31.135
Rupert Isaacson: this is not
what people would call DNA.

00:16:32.975 --> 00:16:39.505
That's it codes that are coming
in to program program us up fluid.

00:16:41.085 --> 00:16:46.225
Shae Stewart: We, we studied embryology
specifically within the 1st, 21 days

00:16:46.225 --> 00:16:49.405
or so before genes kick in before.

00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:51.320
Before all that comes in.

00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:58.380
So it's like a deeper intelligence and
this, this motion that creates us from

00:16:58.380 --> 00:17:03.690
our fluids is, is within us as adults, so.

00:17:05.375 --> 00:17:08.235
So embryology is not something
that just happened to us.

00:17:08.355 --> 00:17:12.625
It's some, we created ourselves
and, and our fluids have a wisdom.

00:17:13.325 --> 00:17:19.085
So in, in the biodynamic world, we
look at the body as a fluid body.

00:17:19.665 --> 00:17:23.775
And this the innate wisdom is inside that.

00:17:23.825 --> 00:17:32.015
And we just help, help the, our body
find this origin, their origins.

00:17:33.390 --> 00:17:36.400
Basically, so go ahead.

00:17:36.470 --> 00:17:42.220
Yeah, we do go a little deeper than
cerebral spinal fluid, but cerebral

00:17:42.220 --> 00:17:48.280
spinal fluid is it's formed in the
ventricles and which are pockets inside

00:17:48.280 --> 00:17:52.630
of our brain and it comes from blood.

00:17:53.250 --> 00:18:00.120
So, the blood goes through the cord
plexus into the ventricles, which.

00:18:01.030 --> 00:18:02.840
Which are like where there's four of them.

00:18:03.140 --> 00:18:11.020
So we've got like four pockets inside of
our brain inside of our head or skull and

00:18:11.750 --> 00:18:17.510
blood comes through and it forms cerebral
spinal fluid within these ventricles

00:18:19.540 --> 00:18:22.440
and then it goes down into the spine.

00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.880
It's a, it's a zero net gravity.

00:18:25.930 --> 00:18:30.190
So it's floating, it floats
our nervous system and it helps

00:18:30.210 --> 00:18:33.580
cushion our brain and it's.

00:18:33.950 --> 00:18:37.160
A transmitter of signals.

00:18:37.490 --> 00:18:39.530
It sends signals throughout our body.

00:18:40.320 --> 00:18:45.500
It helps our body detox at
night when we're sleeping.

00:18:45.500 --> 00:18:49.230
That's a lot of the times
when the detox happens.

00:18:50.245 --> 00:18:56.425
You have to forgive me because I'm still a
little jet lagged, so my words get stuck.

00:18:56.555 --> 00:18:58.375
Rupert Isaacson: You've been
blocking that cerebral spinal fluid

00:18:58.375 --> 00:19:00.295
sitting in a cramped airplane seat.

00:19:00.905 --> 00:19:03.395
Shae Stewart: Yeah, it got,
it had too much pressure.

00:19:03.605 --> 00:19:07.805
It's not, it's not flowing well right now.

00:19:08.655 --> 00:19:10.425
So it transmits nutrients.

00:19:11.325 --> 00:19:18.925
It transmits it's, if you think
about water, like what does water do?

00:19:18.975 --> 00:19:19.585
Transmits.

00:19:20.445 --> 00:19:21.405
electricity.

00:19:22.125 --> 00:19:27.335
It receives information and
transmits it throughout the body.

00:19:28.635 --> 00:19:34.765
So cerebral spinal fluid nourishes
our nervous system and helps, helps

00:19:34.765 --> 00:19:37.025
it eliminate the toxins from the day.

00:19:37.855 --> 00:19:41.725
Rupert Isaacson: And presumably we excrete
it out with our pee, with our sweat, with

00:19:41.725 --> 00:19:43.995
our tears, with our, through our blood.

00:19:44.615 --> 00:19:45.125
Okay.

00:19:45.635 --> 00:19:46.675
And then we create new.

00:19:46.975 --> 00:19:49.075
So do we create new
spinal fluid every day?

00:19:49.580 --> 00:19:49.890
Yes.

00:19:51.540 --> 00:19:56.520
And so I presume, I also read that
cerebral spinal fluid also brings the

00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:03.040
neurons that, the stem cells of the
neurons that create our brain cells,

00:20:03.040 --> 00:20:04.430
our heart cells and our gut cells.

00:20:05.325 --> 00:20:09.985
into place, like almost like a
conveyor belt each day because we're

00:20:10.035 --> 00:20:12.825
regenerating those cells every day.

00:20:13.425 --> 00:20:13.745
Yes.

00:20:14.015 --> 00:20:16.725
It's a very efficient conveyor belt
that it sort of brings them down

00:20:16.725 --> 00:20:20.285
and they go kachung here in the
brain, kachung here for the heart,

00:20:20.445 --> 00:20:21.745
and then kachung here for the gut.

00:20:21.795 --> 00:20:25.035
And then we excrete that out.

00:20:25.265 --> 00:20:29.835
We create some more cerebral spinal
fluid and the next neurons come down when

00:20:29.835 --> 00:20:34.455
those old ones, the next lot of old ones
have to be taken to the waste basket.

00:20:34.775 --> 00:20:40.035
With all that in mind, I could
now understand, I think, how

00:20:40.035 --> 00:20:45.475
compression that might affect the
flow of that cerebral spinal fluid

00:20:45.935 --> 00:20:47.595
might be detrimental to well being.

00:20:47.775 --> 00:20:50.055
Would that be correct to assume?

00:20:50.525 --> 00:20:51.835
Shae Stewart: Oh, absolutely.

00:20:52.425 --> 00:20:58.355
And I have some, I know some people
doing dissections and they're looking at

00:20:58.365 --> 00:21:05.125
this specifically with horses that have
had a, that seem to have a decrease in

00:21:05.125 --> 00:21:12.195
their cerebral spinal fluid from head
injuries, head compressions, and they

00:21:12.195 --> 00:21:19.675
have, the area seems a little dry and we,
they're wondering about neurodegenerative

00:21:19.705 --> 00:21:22.005
diseases, even things like Cushing's.

00:21:23.370 --> 00:21:30.710
Is that really about the pituitary
gland or could there be a component of

00:21:31.290 --> 00:21:39.710
cerebral spinal fluid that's not flowing
being produced enough and it's, it's

00:21:39.710 --> 00:21:48.090
a, it's a great, it's also known as
a crystalline matrix, a liquid light.

00:21:48.550 --> 00:21:50.170
So it's.

00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:55.160
We could also look at it as
one of our sensory receptors.

00:21:55.630 --> 00:21:59.440
It reads our internal environment
and helps send signals

00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.470
all throughout our system.

00:22:04.030 --> 00:22:10.130
So if that's failing, then our
system isn't going to function.

00:22:10.770 --> 00:22:14.670
There's a man named Maro Zapatera.

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:15.630
Have you heard of

00:22:15.630 --> 00:22:15.950
Rupert Isaacson: him?

00:22:16.180 --> 00:22:17.670
I have not, but I'm
going to write it down.

00:22:17.670 --> 00:22:18.750
How do I spell Maro?

00:22:19.305 --> 00:22:20.845
Shae Stewart: M A U R O.

00:22:21.165 --> 00:22:22.395
Rupert Isaacson: M A U R O.

00:22:23.915 --> 00:22:24.005
Zapotera.

00:22:24.005 --> 00:22:25.665
Is that a Z A P?

00:22:26.505 --> 00:22:28.705
Shae Stewart: Z A, let me see exactly.

00:22:28.735 --> 00:22:30.355
I think it's Z A P P.

00:22:33.485 --> 00:22:39.505
Z A P P A T E R R A.

00:22:40.255 --> 00:22:40.415
Zapotera.

00:22:42.645 --> 00:22:49.635
He is a, a medical doctor who,
I believe he studied biodynamic

00:22:49.915 --> 00:22:51.805
craniosacral and he is.

00:22:53.100 --> 00:22:59.810
Studying cerebral spinal fluid, and he
has some really great lectures and he

00:22:59.810 --> 00:23:07.270
talks about how the neurons that are
cerebral spinal fluid washes over are

00:23:07.270 --> 00:23:13.640
very similar to the same neurons that
are found and invertebrates in the ocean.

00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:21.200
Okay, so, like, sea worms or
starfish and these neurons.

00:23:22.660 --> 00:23:30.610
That these invertebrates have
read the oceanic environment, and

00:23:30.610 --> 00:23:35.190
that's how they, they know what's
going on in their surroundings.

00:23:37.300 --> 00:23:38.420
Rupert Isaacson: I see what you're saying.

00:23:38.420 --> 00:23:41.910
So it's a, it's a, it's
a conductive fluid.

00:23:42.610 --> 00:23:43.220
Yes.

00:23:43.270 --> 00:23:49.310
Crystalline would mean conductive
that therefore can transmit

00:23:51.050 --> 00:23:53.690
intelligences or signals that can be.

00:23:54.730 --> 00:23:57.690
interpreted by the brain
into intelligences, right?

00:23:57.780 --> 00:24:06.180
In the same way that an electric, a
sound wave sensor could, or a, because

00:24:06.840 --> 00:24:09.490
all of these things are vibrations
at the end of the day, are they not?

00:24:09.650 --> 00:24:15.650
The, an electromagnetic, an electric,
an electric charge is A series of waves.

00:24:16.410 --> 00:24:23.670
So if that's being conducted through
something like cerebral spinal fluid,

00:24:24.050 --> 00:24:29.960
presumably the cerebral spinal fluid
must be reading or conducting signals

00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:38.510
that are coming in from other nerves,
other stimuli to presumably, would that

00:24:38.510 --> 00:24:40.400
be to the autonomic nervous system?

00:24:40.630 --> 00:24:44.020
Is that where they would, is that
where those signals would be?

00:24:44.970 --> 00:24:50.980
Delivered to I think the Vargas nerve
and the, and then up to the brain, the

00:24:50.980 --> 00:24:55.200
Shae Stewart: entire central nervous
system, our entire nervous system, but

00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:03.580
he even, he even goes a little further
and talks about how it's cerebral

00:25:03.580 --> 00:25:09.120
spinal fluid is a conduit of cosmic
consciousness to our physical bodies.

00:25:09.490 --> 00:25:13.810
So not only can it read and send signals.

00:25:15.635 --> 00:25:20.055
On the inside, but also on the
outside and what's coming in,

00:25:20.745 --> 00:25:21.185
Rupert Isaacson: right?

00:25:21.235 --> 00:25:21.755
I'm looking.

00:25:21.775 --> 00:25:23.595
I'm as soon as you said Dr.

00:25:24.215 --> 00:25:29.075
I began to Google him as, as we're
talking and he is indeed a medical doctor

00:25:29.085 --> 00:25:33.815
and a researcher and a sports medicine
physician in Pasadena, California.

00:25:34.085 --> 00:25:38.715
And yes, he is talking
about consciousness.

00:25:40.335 --> 00:25:40.795
And.

00:25:42.075 --> 00:25:46.345
This fluid he's I happen to know
he's not the only one in history.

00:25:46.675 --> 00:25:51.805
It's interesting when one reads the
old Brahmic texts, and some people

00:25:51.805 --> 00:25:53.555
say that there's the Indian texts.

00:25:53.945 --> 00:26:02.455
And some people say that the New Testament
is in fact a, an allegory of what goes

00:26:02.455 --> 00:26:08.865
on with cerebral spinal fluid and that
Christos Christ is the oil that goes up,

00:26:09.055 --> 00:26:11.095
you know, two and a half days at the.

00:26:11.095 --> 00:26:11.115
Okay.

00:26:11.945 --> 00:26:14.695
Beginning of each month, two and a
half to three days, it goes into the

00:26:14.695 --> 00:26:18.315
tomb, into the skull, and then comes
back down with consciousness and so on.

00:26:18.475 --> 00:26:24.455
What I, what I do know is that, or
what I think I know, perhaps you can

00:26:24.455 --> 00:26:27.195
tell me if I actually know this is that

00:26:30.295 --> 00:26:33.870
if enough cerebral spinal
fluid surrounds the...

00:26:35.260 --> 00:26:39.480
Pineal gland in the middle ventricle of
the brain, which of course all animals

00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:43.950
have but, but we have a really big one
and it's called pineal gland because it

00:26:43.950 --> 00:26:47.100
looks like a pine cone and it sits in
right there in the middle of our brain

00:26:47.100 --> 00:26:53.720
that inside that pineal gland are also
crystals salt crystals which can with

00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:58.010
enough pressure on them with enough
several spinal fluid pressing around

00:26:58.040 --> 00:27:02.270
the pineal gland can then create an
electrical charge, a small electrical

00:27:02.270 --> 00:27:09.770
charge, and that the pineal gland, I
understand, produces melatonin, which

00:27:09.770 --> 00:27:16.770
governs our sleep cycle, and also, which
is a tweak on serotonin, so it's the

00:27:16.770 --> 00:27:20.840
same chemical, but the pineal gland does
a little tweak on it to, to create our

00:27:20.840 --> 00:27:26.400
melatonin but then if there's enough
pressure from the cerebral spinal fluid

00:27:27.120 --> 00:27:34.310
around this pineal gland that chemical,
that melatonin becomes something called

00:27:34.670 --> 00:27:39.190
DMT, which is what makes us see angels
and talk to God and that sort of thing.

00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:44.590
And there are, there are plants
that create this, like the plants in

00:27:44.600 --> 00:27:46.750
Ayahuasca that the shamans down in.

00:27:47.425 --> 00:27:50.895
The Peru in the Amazon use and
certain types of things like

00:27:50.895 --> 00:27:53.925
morning glory and so on that are
known to be heavy hallucinogens.

00:27:54.475 --> 00:27:58.075
They call these, you know, the God
plants and some people would say,

00:27:58.105 --> 00:28:00.745
Oh, well, in that case, no one
ever talks to God or see angels.

00:28:00.845 --> 00:28:04.125
It's just cerebral spinal fluid
pressing on the pituitary on the pineal

00:28:04.125 --> 00:28:08.305
gland and causing us to interpret
these electrical signals in this

00:28:08.305 --> 00:28:10.405
way as light and sound in our brain.

00:28:10.575 --> 00:28:14.215
And then other people would say, or does
it allow you to see what's really there?

00:28:16.275 --> 00:28:18.015
Either way, it would seem to be.

00:28:18.930 --> 00:28:23.200
At the very least important because
it's bringing these neurons into place

00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:28.080
and also, as you say, acting as a
sort of shock absorber brain cushion

00:28:28.110 --> 00:28:29.510
between the brain and the skull.

00:28:29.990 --> 00:28:32.680
So it seems to do an awful lot
of things, cerebral spinal fluid,

00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:38.600
and I could see how getting in the
way of it could be problematic.

00:28:39.610 --> 00:28:40.915
How do you unblock it?

00:28:45.300 --> 00:28:51.870
Shae Stewart: Through craniosacral,
so the biodynamic work, we we do have

00:28:51.990 --> 00:29:00.890
specific contacts that we put our hands
on, on the skull, the spine, the sacrum.

00:29:02.225 --> 00:29:07.005
When you get into the more advanced
biodynamic work, the contacts are less

00:29:07.325 --> 00:29:11.205
specific and more covering the whole.

00:29:15.595 --> 00:29:23.025
We believe that cerebral spinal
fluid is moved by a field of motion

00:29:23.035 --> 00:29:24.905
that we call primary respiration.

00:29:27.615 --> 00:29:29.675
And it's...

00:29:31.915 --> 00:29:38.785
Some of the older biodynamic osteopaths
or osteopaths talk about how there's

00:29:38.985 --> 00:29:44.835
a rhythm within our body and that
this is what moves our cerebral

00:29:44.845 --> 00:29:50.275
spinal fluid and even moves like our
capillaries because our capillaries

00:29:50.275 --> 00:29:51.915
are not moved by our heartbeat.

00:29:53.025 --> 00:29:53.655
And

00:29:57.415 --> 00:30:02.565
so some of the, I mean, I can
talk about the different rhythms.

00:30:03.945 --> 00:30:05.575
If you'd like, please.

00:30:06.080 --> 00:30:06.560
Okay.

00:30:09.510 --> 00:30:13.240
I'll talk a little bit about the
history and how this came about.

00:30:13.470 --> 00:30:19.650
So the and anyone who studied craniosacral
might be aware of some of this stuff.

00:30:20.320 --> 00:30:26.380
The man who created the first school of
American this first American osteopathy

00:30:26.980 --> 00:30:38.570
school, he was a medical doctor and he
spoke fluid fluent I'm in, I'm in fluid

00:30:38.580 --> 00:30:47.110
brain, he spoke fluent Pawnee, so he was
part Pawnee and this was back when, you

00:30:47.110 --> 00:30:49.060
know, the settlers were taking the land.

00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:58.940
From the natives and his family was on
land that also belonged to the Shawnee and

00:30:59.430 --> 00:31:02.290
the land next to them was Cherokee land.

00:31:02.370 --> 00:31:07.140
So he, in a sense, became
their medical doctor, but.

00:31:07.940 --> 00:31:16.550
I think they taught him more than he,
more than he helped because he, he

00:31:16.550 --> 00:31:21.910
started to get very dissatisfied with
the medical world and he lost some of his

00:31:21.910 --> 00:31:23.950
family members and he couldn't save them.

00:31:24.620 --> 00:31:29.300
And he started looking at the the
way to heal a little differently.

00:31:29.300 --> 00:31:35.840
And he started this school
where he focused on more

00:31:35.840 --> 00:31:37.640
physical, aligning the body.

00:31:38.335 --> 00:31:45.235
He talked about moving what he called
nerve force and although he, he doesn't,

00:31:45.385 --> 00:31:53.145
he doesn't credit that he learned all
this stuff from the indigenous people.

00:31:53.665 --> 00:31:58.415
It is pretty obvious that a lot
of this work came from them.

00:31:59.145 --> 00:32:04.455
And he, he often spoke as when someone
would come to his, him with a problem,

00:32:04.455 --> 00:32:07.025
he would say, I'll take, I'll.

00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:08.320
I'll do it.

00:32:08.360 --> 00:32:09.650
I'll take an Indian.

00:32:09.750 --> 00:32:11.640
I look at the body.

00:32:13.940 --> 00:32:18.160
So this was back when
they, when he, the, the.

00:32:19.055 --> 00:32:25.545
European settlers, European land
robbers, , however you wanna call 'em.

00:32:26.435 --> 00:32:28.025
They looked at the
colonialists, let's say.

00:32:28.030 --> 00:32:28.105
Yeah.

00:32:28.115 --> 00:32:28.385
Yeah.

00:32:28.445 --> 00:32:29.225
The colonialists.

00:32:29.495 --> 00:32:33.815
Colonialists, they looked at the
skulls, a solid piece, and it was one

00:32:33.815 --> 00:32:38.655
of his students who saw some skulls
'cause back, this was the after

00:32:38.660 --> 00:32:41.985
the Civil War, and there were human
skulls everywhere, so they could

00:32:41.985 --> 00:32:50.005
just study bones, and he saw that the
bones were actually meant to breathe.

00:32:51.105 --> 00:32:56.965
So our skull is joined in pieces, we
have multiple skull bones, and they're

00:32:56.975 --> 00:33:04.895
joined by what's called sutures, so little
joints, and he saw that this looks like

00:33:05.295 --> 00:33:12.165
it is meant to breathe and his words
were like the gills of a fish and So he

00:33:12.165 --> 00:33:19.635
started prying bones apart and looking
at how they're joined and he started this

00:33:19.655 --> 00:33:27.135
lifelong study of how this moves, what's
going on in the body to cause all of this.

00:33:28.305 --> 00:33:34.845
And he concocted a helmet where he
tightened different pieces of it.

00:33:35.870 --> 00:33:40.290
That would restrict a certain bone
in the skull and then he would

00:33:40.290 --> 00:33:46.750
make note of where in the body this
was affecting and his wife was a

00:33:46.750 --> 00:33:48.820
great resource and helped write.

00:33:48.820 --> 00:33:49.690
He wrote a book.

00:33:50.415 --> 00:33:53.895
And I'll have, I would have
to look up the book's name.

00:33:53.895 --> 00:33:55.655
It's out of print, but
you can still get it.

00:33:55.665 --> 00:33:57.655
You can find it every once in a while.

00:33:57.665 --> 00:34:01.795
It's like 400, but it's, it's
where he documented all the

00:34:01.795 --> 00:34:07.215
different changes in his body, both
physical, emotional, and spiritual.

00:34:07.975 --> 00:34:09.165
Oh, he did this to himself.

00:34:10.035 --> 00:34:11.145
Did it to himself.

00:34:11.525 --> 00:34:12.335
What was his name?

00:34:13.035 --> 00:34:15.035
William Garner Sutherland.

00:34:15.475 --> 00:34:18.515
Rupert Isaacson: William
Garner Southerland.

00:34:18.545 --> 00:34:19.955
Okay, please go on.

00:34:20.975 --> 00:34:24.335
Shae Stewart: He's considered
the grandfather of craniosacral.

00:34:24.885 --> 00:34:34.255
So even though we've Learned that this is
a form of body work that has been called

00:34:34.325 --> 00:34:40.575
been titled craniosacral by William Garner
Sutherland, although it's been around

00:34:40.625 --> 00:34:48.555
since the beginning of time, since the
beginning of human time, we've had the

00:34:48.555 --> 00:34:55.915
original healers who connected the source
and help the body find their origins.

00:34:56.169 --> 00:35:03.309
there's a ancient book and Chinese
medicine where they state keep the.

00:35:03.869 --> 00:35:13.129
When you keep the hips still, the sacrum,
the sacrum gets stuck, the heart suffers.

00:35:14.799 --> 00:35:18.579
So it's, it's a concept that's been
around forever, but William Garner

00:35:18.579 --> 00:35:24.209
Sutherland and, and most of these
things get passed down through stories

00:35:24.209 --> 00:35:25.959
and you know, it wasn't written.

00:35:26.109 --> 00:35:29.999
So William Garner Sutherland was
the first person who studied it

00:35:29.999 --> 00:35:37.569
from his, his mindset and wrote
down what we now call craniosacral.

00:35:38.894 --> 00:35:44.614
And he found, so he started working on
people in this subtle way, and he found

00:35:44.664 --> 00:35:50.374
that, yes, there is movement in the
bones and he, he found within himself

00:35:50.414 --> 00:35:54.464
that there was areas that would get
restricted when, like, the frontal bone

00:35:54.464 --> 00:36:00.934
was, was not moving how it should, or
the occiput or, or whatever bone and.

00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:08.929
As his palpation skills grew deeper,
meaning he could sense more in the

00:36:08.929 --> 00:36:14.399
body on a deeper level, he found that
it wasn't the bones just moving, but

00:36:14.429 --> 00:36:17.389
there was a fluid moving these bones.

00:36:19.859 --> 00:36:24.049
And so he started working on the
fluid restrictions in the body.

00:36:26.399 --> 00:36:35.269
And then as he, as he kept going in
this work, he, he started, he was

00:36:35.269 --> 00:36:40.879
called one day to work on a dying man
and he felt a presence in the room.

00:36:42.739 --> 00:36:48.869
And this is when he realized that
there was a presence that moved

00:36:49.309 --> 00:36:51.089
our fluids that moved our bones.

00:36:53.084 --> 00:36:57.974
And this is what he called primary
respiration, or he turned, he,

00:36:58.044 --> 00:37:02.144
he coined the term, he called
it the breath of life because he

00:37:02.144 --> 00:37:04.614
was a, he was a Christian mystic.

00:37:05.194 --> 00:37:12.584
So they looked at things from the
Christian point of view, the Holy Ghost

00:37:13.164 --> 00:37:13.814
Rupert Isaacson: effectively.

00:37:14.904 --> 00:37:15.384
Yeah.

00:37:16.784 --> 00:37:17.404
Okay.

00:37:18.694 --> 00:37:19.164
Interest.

00:37:19.174 --> 00:37:21.974
This is interesting because of course,
as you know, that in, in, in the

00:37:21.974 --> 00:37:26.404
Hindu tradition, you have Kundalini,
which means the coiled one, you know,

00:37:26.924 --> 00:37:31.364
energy at the base of the spine in
the sacrum that you can bring up.

00:37:31.784 --> 00:37:35.234
And then back down again for well
being, physical, mental, and, you

00:37:35.234 --> 00:37:39.634
know, and, and also, you know, contact
with the divine, the Bushmen of the

00:37:39.634 --> 00:37:44.074
Kalahari, the San, Khoisan people who
I have a lot of experience with, they

00:37:44.074 --> 00:37:48.784
talk about something called Ngum,
and Ngum is exactly the same thing.

00:37:49.074 --> 00:37:51.414
And they describe it the
same and they have a way of.

00:37:52.649 --> 00:37:56.649
Manipulating it into the abdomen
and boiling it so that it

00:37:56.879 --> 00:37:58.459
boils as it goes up the spine.

00:37:58.509 --> 00:38:01.419
And when you touch them, they
becoming extremely hot to the touch.

00:38:01.419 --> 00:38:07.609
And and this is what they can then
sort of effectively burn your illnesses

00:38:07.629 --> 00:38:09.409
out of you when they're in this state.

00:38:09.409 --> 00:38:11.199
And of course, they go into
the spirit world this way.

00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:13.929
So, but it all seems to come
down to cerebral spinal fluid.

00:38:13.999 --> 00:38:17.459
When as you know, when my son Rowan
became verbal in the saddle in front

00:38:17.459 --> 00:38:19.369
of me through, and I noticed that.

00:38:20.229 --> 00:38:24.389
The more collected the horse went the
more his hips moved and therefore it's

00:38:24.389 --> 00:38:27.089
softly and in rhythm, the more he spoke.

00:38:27.439 --> 00:38:29.579
And I had this.

00:38:30.494 --> 00:38:33.674
Explained to me as predominantly
the production of oxytocin,

00:38:34.164 --> 00:38:37.904
which is, of course, not just a
happiness hormone, but a feel about

00:38:37.904 --> 00:38:39.294
about a communication hormone.

00:38:39.984 --> 00:38:44.654
But then I started also wanting to
find out how I could do that when he

00:38:44.654 --> 00:38:48.054
wasn't on the horse and that became
the basis of something which we now

00:38:48.054 --> 00:38:50.044
call movement method, which I'm always.

00:38:50.619 --> 00:38:54.729
Wanting therapeutic riding people to
learn because of course, most of the

00:38:54.729 --> 00:38:56.949
time that the person is with you,
they're actually not on the horse.

00:38:57.189 --> 00:38:58.759
So what are you doing with
the rest of that time?

00:38:59.249 --> 00:39:03.599
And I began to use a
lot of sacral rocking.

00:39:04.449 --> 00:39:08.439
With him and then with other people lying
on the ground, you put the hand on the

00:39:08.439 --> 00:39:12.799
sacrum and you rock gently and we began
to call it the diaper shake because

00:39:12.799 --> 00:39:16.969
it reduced people to sort of a happy
toddler stage, you know, within seconds.

00:39:17.429 --> 00:39:20.189
And I was giving a training.

00:39:20.229 --> 00:39:22.159
I was thinking, well,
this is oxytocin, right?

00:39:22.579 --> 00:39:27.449
And then I was giving a training
to a an autism dad from Canada.

00:39:29.109 --> 00:39:32.059
And I showed, we were doing the
diaper shake part of the training

00:39:32.549 --> 00:39:33.529
and he said, where'd you learn this?

00:39:34.379 --> 00:39:39.259
And I said, Oh, I learned it from a
physiotherapist who showed me how to get

00:39:39.259 --> 00:39:43.159
walking again after a ruptured disc and
seemed to work very well, but it makes you

00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:45.339
feel really good in kind of a similar way.

00:39:45.339 --> 00:39:48.289
And I presume it must be oxytocin
because, well, it is oxytocin and

00:39:48.289 --> 00:39:49.459
serotonin, but it's more than that.

00:39:49.759 --> 00:39:53.269
He said, Rupert I'm a, I'm
a, I'm a spinal surgeon.

00:39:53.869 --> 00:39:54.459
That's my job.

00:39:54.969 --> 00:39:56.499
And I'm not just a spinal surgeon.

00:39:56.899 --> 00:40:00.469
I'm an engineer that designs
instruments for spinal surgery.

00:40:01.359 --> 00:40:03.019
And he said, in my spinal unit.

00:40:03.394 --> 00:40:07.884
Whenever anybody comes and has had
spinal surgery or if they come with

00:40:07.884 --> 00:40:13.444
an injury, we prescribe this sacral
rocking that you're doing because it

00:40:13.474 --> 00:40:19.824
makes you generate massive amounts
of cerebral spinal fluid which has

00:40:19.824 --> 00:40:20.864
all these effects that you've just.

00:40:21.614 --> 00:40:22.084
Detailed.

00:40:22.464 --> 00:40:26.604
And this was interesting to me
because, you know, I had gone to

00:40:26.604 --> 00:40:30.144
a cerebral a craniosacral, very
good craniosacral practitioner

00:40:30.394 --> 00:40:31.934
when Roan was much, much younger.

00:40:32.924 --> 00:40:35.694
And it had really helped.

00:40:35.824 --> 00:40:36.994
She would do it to him while he slept.

00:40:37.304 --> 00:40:41.034
And it really helped with some of
his more agitated symptoms back then.

00:40:41.634 --> 00:40:43.264
And I began to put two and two together.

00:40:43.434 --> 00:40:43.874
So.

00:40:44.439 --> 00:40:50.699
Now, if we turn our attention back to the
horse that, for example, I see a person

00:40:50.699 --> 00:40:54.519
coming in who seems agitated and upset.

00:40:55.229 --> 00:40:59.789
I'll often try to get them to
accept this diaper shake thing

00:41:00.439 --> 00:41:01.639
knowing that it will help.

00:41:01.639 --> 00:41:09.219
And if I'm feeling in any way agitated
or upset or even have pain in my body, I

00:41:09.219 --> 00:41:11.019
will ask friends or family to do it to me.

00:41:12.089 --> 00:41:14.489
So I can recognize behaviors.

00:41:15.234 --> 00:41:20.784
Where it could be helpful, perhaps
that's what you would call from

00:41:20.954 --> 00:41:24.344
William Garner Sutherland looking
with the Indian eye or whatever.

00:41:24.964 --> 00:41:29.654
Now you are looking at
your Indian eye at horses.

00:41:30.684 --> 00:41:35.584
So let's say I bring my, I've got a
little therapy herd of seven horses.

00:41:37.154 --> 00:41:41.074
And if I invited you to stay with me here
in Germany, which I'm going to, because

00:41:41.074 --> 00:41:44.114
of course I want to completely plunder
your knowledge and I would wheel my

00:41:44.114 --> 00:41:46.484
horses out to you and say, okay, Shay.

00:41:48.204 --> 00:41:52.154
Cast your eye on them and do
your magic and let me know

00:41:52.154 --> 00:41:53.404
what you think they might need.

00:41:53.544 --> 00:41:56.694
What typically.

00:41:57.144 --> 00:42:01.594
Do you see come up again and again, just
the kind of, is there like a checklist

00:42:01.594 --> 00:42:05.884
of five things that you kind of always
see with your average horse that's been

00:42:05.884 --> 00:42:07.654
a riding horse for X amount of years?

00:42:08.194 --> 00:42:15.134
And do you have a sort of series of go
to's that you do as your initial work

00:42:15.164 --> 00:42:16.944
with these things before you go deeper?

00:42:16.944 --> 00:42:19.844
Like what, what, what do you,
what do you typically see?

00:42:20.334 --> 00:42:21.624
What are the patterns that you.

00:42:22.279 --> 00:42:27.219
That you've noticed that perhaps it
would be helpful for us as horse owners

00:42:27.619 --> 00:42:32.949
and people who work with horses to also
begin to look out for, like, physically,

00:42:32.979 --> 00:42:33.899
Shae Stewart: like, if I'm standing

00:42:33.899 --> 00:42:36.709
Rupert Isaacson: there, because
they're going to show initially

00:42:36.959 --> 00:42:40.709
anything through their body and their
movement as much as they would show

00:42:40.709 --> 00:42:41.939
it through their emotional state.

00:42:45.114 --> 00:42:51.664
Shae Stewart: Oh so probably
one of the biggest things I

00:42:51.764 --> 00:42:54.944
see is a dysfunctional posture.

00:42:56.184 --> 00:42:57.604
They may stand there.

00:42:57.614 --> 00:43:02.314
You walk out with the horse and
the horse stops, you stop and the

00:43:02.314 --> 00:43:07.694
horse stops and they may stand there
and, and look completely relaxed,

00:43:08.164 --> 00:43:10.374
but their posture to me says.

00:43:12.709 --> 00:43:22.689
That their nervous system is not balanced
and a posture and balance is a big one.

00:43:23.489 --> 00:43:29.969
And I, I also see asymmetries in
their face swelling in their face

00:43:29.979 --> 00:43:35.699
that, that may, may not be obvious
if you haven't seen them without it.

00:43:36.529 --> 00:43:44.889
But the typical posture imbalance would
be when they stop their front legs or are.

00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:47.229
more back behind them.

00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:53.229
So it looks like they're leaning over
their forehand and their legs are

00:43:53.229 --> 00:43:56.159
not directly under their shoulder.

00:43:57.089 --> 00:44:00.699
I, I'll see the base of their
neck looks a little dropped.

00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:06.809
The croup might be level
or higher than the withers.

00:44:08.909 --> 00:44:16.929
The neck, their head may seem a little
higher than it should in a relaxed state.

00:44:18.609 --> 00:44:22.304
And those are the biggest changes
I see in the cranial sacral.

00:44:22.944 --> 00:44:29.964
The other thing I see are what I
would call a headache look, which

00:44:29.964 --> 00:44:37.044
is the eyes, the eyes will be
maybe drawn down, narrowed, darker.

00:44:38.184 --> 00:44:40.834
I'll watch, how, how are they?

00:44:41.069 --> 00:44:44.959
Engaging with their environment,
are their ears moving?

00:44:45.019 --> 00:44:46.609
Are their eyes looking around?

00:44:46.929 --> 00:44:48.809
I watch eyeball motion.

00:44:49.299 --> 00:44:54.249
Like, if when you turn the horse 1
direction, and they look, do their eyes

00:44:54.329 --> 00:44:58.149
track smoothly and have a full range of.

00:44:58.534 --> 00:45:03.904
Lateral motion, or do their eyes stop
at a certain point, and then they

00:45:03.904 --> 00:45:11.754
tilt their head in a awkward position
to look, or when they're looking

00:45:11.754 --> 00:45:17.682
to one side, do their eyes make a
weird skipping or tracking to them.

00:45:17.992 --> 00:45:25.232
I see that a lot and usually I motion
has to do with sphenoid bone compression,

00:45:25.452 --> 00:45:29.342
which is the bone that the brain sits in.

00:45:30.477 --> 00:45:39.517
And all the ocular nerves run through
this bone and so any tension and fascia

00:45:40.277 --> 00:45:47.097
can, can pull on the little holes we
called for a man that are in, in the

00:45:47.097 --> 00:45:54.677
bones at the cranial nerves run through
any, any tension in the fascia, any head

00:45:54.677 --> 00:45:58.187
compression can put compression on these.

00:46:03.037 --> 00:46:08.247
I'll look at how are they holding
their tongue, does this, does their

00:46:08.257 --> 00:46:12.907
mouth feel dry or does it feel too wet?

00:46:12.917 --> 00:46:15.387
Is there too much saliva in their mouth?

00:46:15.737 --> 00:46:17.527
Is there not enough saliva in their mouth?

00:46:18.317 --> 00:46:19.937
How are their ears moving?

00:46:20.392 --> 00:46:26.852
Does one seem to kind of look weak and
not maybe move well with the other one?

00:46:27.082 --> 00:46:28.142
Do they move at all?

00:46:28.142 --> 00:46:32.402
Some horses just may stand there and
their ears kind of off to the side.

00:46:33.172 --> 00:46:35.022
I look at how are they breathing?

00:46:35.992 --> 00:46:42.062
Is it just, can you only see motion
in their belly when they're breathing?

00:46:42.342 --> 00:46:45.692
Or does their entire ribcage move?

00:46:46.942 --> 00:46:50.032
Even the muscles in their back
should move when they breathe.

00:46:50.902 --> 00:46:53.512
I watch, how are they holding their tail?

00:46:54.122 --> 00:46:55.332
Is it soft?

00:46:55.952 --> 00:46:57.632
Is it off to one side?

00:46:58.292 --> 00:47:01.832
Is it, does it seem tight?

00:47:03.002 --> 00:47:04.472
I look at their fur.

00:47:05.412 --> 00:47:10.512
The hair on their coat should all
go in the appropriate direction.

00:47:12.302 --> 00:47:18.402
And sometimes you'll see a weird patch
of hair specifically on the neck that

00:47:18.592 --> 00:47:23.152
looks like it's growing straight up,
but that's the fascia pulling the

00:47:23.152 --> 00:47:25.502
hair out of alignment, so to speak.

00:47:26.162 --> 00:47:28.892
Oh look, does their coat seem dull?

00:47:29.242 --> 00:47:31.312
Does the hair seem like it's tight?

00:47:32.542 --> 00:47:38.322
And flat on their skin, or is it
soft and, and fluffy and relaxed?

00:47:40.822 --> 00:47:44.382
I'll look at how they're, how
they're landing on their hoof.

00:47:45.322 --> 00:47:46.142
Is it balanced?

00:47:47.512 --> 00:47:50.512
Do they stand too much on their toe?

00:47:51.502 --> 00:47:53.352
Those are basic things I look at.

00:47:54.102 --> 00:47:54.722
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:47:54.792 --> 00:47:59.072
And so let's say you, would you
normally see all of those things or

00:47:59.082 --> 00:48:01.702
would you normally see, say three
of those things or five of those

00:48:01.702 --> 00:48:03.392
things together in a given horse?

00:48:04.682 --> 00:48:10.542
Do they tend to come in little clusters,
depending on the type of horse or the

00:48:10.542 --> 00:48:11.862
type of work the horse has been in?

00:48:14.162 --> 00:48:16.902
Shae Stewart: Those are pretty
common things I see in almost every

00:48:16.912 --> 00:48:17.212
Rupert Isaacson: horse.

00:48:17.652 --> 00:48:19.142
Okay, all of that together?

00:48:19.822 --> 00:48:20.362
Mm hmm.

00:48:20.862 --> 00:48:23.072
And so where, what's your go to?

00:48:23.142 --> 00:48:23.762
Where do you begin?

00:48:26.252 --> 00:48:28.092
Shae Stewart: Well, I begin with myself.

00:48:29.072 --> 00:48:36.422
So, in order to do this work, you have to
get out of your thinking brain and be...

00:48:37.087 --> 00:48:49.287
Embodied and horses are
highly telepathic and

00:48:52.327 --> 00:48:57.457
I have, I have what I call a cycle
of attunement exercises that I'll do.

00:48:57.797 --> 00:48:59.137
I'll check in with my breath.

00:48:59.467 --> 00:49:00.547
Where's my brain?

00:49:02.057 --> 00:49:06.207
I'll ground myself and then I.

00:49:07.457 --> 00:49:08.677
Expand out.

00:49:08.857 --> 00:49:19.637
So I do a meditation where from my
midline, which is our spine, I'll

00:49:19.677 --> 00:49:25.927
tune in there and I will expand
out three feet from my body and

00:49:25.927 --> 00:49:27.987
I'll expand out through the barn.

00:49:27.997 --> 00:49:35.717
I expand out through the environment
and I invite this slower rhythm

00:49:35.987 --> 00:49:43.867
to present itself, and then I
will go to a contact on the horse.

00:49:44.442 --> 00:49:46.602
A lot of times I'll start at their sacrum,

00:49:49.622 --> 00:49:56.812
or I'll start on their temporal bones, and
then I'll do that same cycle of attunement

00:49:57.942 --> 00:50:08.912
where I'll, I'll check in with my breath,
I'll find my midline, and I'll expand

00:50:08.912 --> 00:50:18.542
out, and then with the flow of this rhythm
that comes from nature, your mind kind

00:50:18.542 --> 00:50:24.242
of naturally drifts, so I'll pull, get
pulled back into their temporal bones.

00:50:25.737 --> 00:50:30.577
And I might hang out there for
a little bit in my mind's eye.

00:50:31.247 --> 00:50:33.157
Maybe I'll track down their body.

00:50:34.687 --> 00:50:37.387
Most horses will tell you
where they want you to be.

00:50:38.297 --> 00:50:41.327
They'll either tell you,
don't leave my temporal bones.

00:50:42.317 --> 00:50:47.187
And they'll, they'll show you that
by when I do leave the temporal

00:50:47.187 --> 00:50:51.877
bones, they'll snap out of the zone
they're in and they'll glare at me.

00:50:51.987 --> 00:50:56.057
Some will even pin their ears or
they'll, they'll toss their head

00:50:56.057 --> 00:50:59.287
away, or they'll show me some
sign that they're disconnecting.

00:50:59.997 --> 00:51:04.097
So I'll go back to the temporal bones
and they'll go right back to where to

00:51:05.797 --> 00:51:08.897
that healing state that they get into.

00:51:11.617 --> 00:51:15.497
And it's usually usually in
the 1st, few sessions with the

00:51:15.497 --> 00:51:17.207
horse, they're pretty specific.

00:51:17.917 --> 00:51:21.657
with where they want my mind
to be when I'm with them.

00:51:21.907 --> 00:51:25.017
Rupert Isaacson: When your mind is,
say, on the temporal bones or on the

00:51:25.107 --> 00:51:26.447
sacrum, what are your fingers doing?

00:51:26.447 --> 00:51:27.287
What are your hands doing?

00:51:28.917 --> 00:51:34.547
Shae Stewart: It's a very light touch,
like the weight of maybe a sheet of paper.

00:51:36.187 --> 00:51:41.697
So I will wrap my hand around their
temporal bone, or I'll place my

00:51:41.697 --> 00:51:43.567
entire hand on their frontal bone.

00:51:44.977 --> 00:51:49.167
Some bones are a little deeper,
like the sphenoid bone is.

00:51:49.787 --> 00:51:54.857
Deeper inside the skull on a horse
on a human, you can feel it, but

00:51:54.857 --> 00:52:04.607
on the horse, there's a specific
contact and then you go in with your

00:52:04.607 --> 00:52:07.607
mind's eye deeper into that bone.

00:52:09.027 --> 00:52:13.867
Rupert Isaacson: I presume when you
were learning to be a craniosacral

00:52:15.017 --> 00:52:21.937
practitioner did you initially learn to
be that on people and did your tutors.

00:52:22.682 --> 00:52:28.642
Do you use these same techniques
these psychosomatic techniques that

00:52:28.642 --> 00:52:33.242
you're talking about with yourself,
or are these things that you came

00:52:33.242 --> 00:52:35.672
to in the course of your career?

00:52:39.642 --> 00:52:40.132
Well,

00:52:42.682 --> 00:52:47.682
Shae Stewart: I started
receiving craniosacral in 1989.

00:52:49.052 --> 00:52:56.212
So I was 20, well I'm 55 now, I
was 21, 22, something like that.

00:52:57.447 --> 00:52:57.837
And

00:52:57.897 --> 00:52:58.877
Rupert Isaacson: why did you begin to

00:52:58.877 --> 00:52:59.407
Shae Stewart: receive it?

00:53:00.137 --> 00:53:06.697
So I was, my sister was a professional
ballet dancer and they were, you know,

00:53:06.697 --> 00:53:13.157
they always were getting some interesting
form of body work and this was before

00:53:13.257 --> 00:53:15.607
spas and massages were a big deal.

00:53:15.607 --> 00:53:20.477
And maybe even before chiropractic, I
mean, chiropractic was around, but there

00:53:20.477 --> 00:53:22.277
wasn't a chiropractor on every corner.

00:53:23.187 --> 00:53:28.827
And I was having migraines
and a lot of neck pain.

00:53:30.702 --> 00:53:34.582
And my sister recommended
this craniosacral therapist.

00:53:35.347 --> 00:53:42.247
And I just moved to San Francisco and
so I went to see her and I did not know

00:53:42.247 --> 00:53:45.197
what she was doing, but it felt amazing.

00:53:45.667 --> 00:53:52.937
And I realized that my migraines were a
symptom of a dysfunctional nervous system

00:53:54.687 --> 00:53:59.277
and it, it changed my life receiving this.

00:54:03.762 --> 00:54:07.492
So I was familiar with craniosacral
before I started learning it.

00:54:08.432 --> 00:54:12.402
I was also familiar
with tuning into nature.

00:54:13.512 --> 00:54:19.262
And I was also familiar with I guess
you can say telepathic communication.

00:54:19.302 --> 00:54:24.402
The women in my family were
psychically connected and.

00:54:27.082 --> 00:54:27.422
Rupert Isaacson: Why?

00:54:28.482 --> 00:54:28.882
Hmm?

00:54:29.232 --> 00:54:29.682
Why?

00:54:29.722 --> 00:54:32.082
Did they, did they come
from a particular tradition?

00:54:32.562 --> 00:54:35.862
Or was there a story behind that somehow?

00:54:37.312 --> 00:54:39.072
Shae Stewart: It just, I don't know.

00:54:39.092 --> 00:54:39.932
My mother...

00:54:40.902 --> 00:54:43.162
My mother died when I was 11.

00:54:43.202 --> 00:54:46.142
So I would love to talk more
about this stuff with her.

00:54:46.762 --> 00:54:52.602
She was into Sufism but that wasn't until
the last couple of years of her life.

00:54:53.722 --> 00:54:59.872
My grandfather's grandmother, I believe
it was his grandmother, was Cherokee.

00:55:00.622 --> 00:55:07.332
And so he had a, he just had a
different way of looking at life.

00:55:07.332 --> 00:55:12.902
He hung out with With indigenous
tribes and the Amazon and up in Alaska.

00:55:12.932 --> 00:55:19.712
And so he would tell these stories
and the, the women and my family were

00:55:19.712 --> 00:55:25.842
just all connected, like they would
send each other messages and there

00:55:25.842 --> 00:55:29.902
wasn't any kind of tradition or.

00:55:30.887 --> 00:55:32.177
Ceremony around that.

00:55:32.187 --> 00:55:37.397
It was just, you know, my mother would
say, oh, I need to talk to her cousin.

00:55:37.397 --> 00:55:41.757
I'm going to go think about her and
she'd go outside and kind of tune in.

00:55:42.407 --> 00:55:45.697
And then, you know, an hour
later, my cousin would call

00:55:45.947 --> 00:55:50.857
and or whenever the phone would
ring, they all knew who it was.

00:55:50.867 --> 00:55:55.477
They'd pick it up and go, oh, hey,
you know, so and so, or whatever their

00:55:55.477 --> 00:55:59.617
name was without even saying hello 1st.

00:56:00.567 --> 00:56:01.197
So that was.

00:56:01.612 --> 00:56:08.752
That was kind of part of some of
my upbringing and then it kind of

00:56:09.442 --> 00:56:14.262
went away a little bit when my,
after my mother died and when I

00:56:14.262 --> 00:56:21.062
went and got my first craniosacral
session, a lot of these things that

00:56:21.062 --> 00:56:22.772
I had forgotten about came back.

00:56:23.662 --> 00:56:30.172
And so it was a form of body work
that I was always seeking to receive.

00:56:30.832 --> 00:56:32.732
And it was hard to find back then.

00:56:33.722 --> 00:56:43.712
And it was around 2006 or so that
I started studying it on horses.

00:56:44.352 --> 00:56:48.542
And I met a lady who came to,
I had a horse facility and.

00:56:49.227 --> 00:56:54.297
The Santa Cruz mountains in
California, and I was studying

00:56:54.317 --> 00:56:56.137
all different types of body work.

00:56:57.107 --> 00:57:03.377
And I met a woman who taught equine
craniosacral and to answer your question.

00:57:03.387 --> 00:57:06.957
No, none of this was talked about
in those initial classes, but

00:57:08.727 --> 00:57:10.287
that was a long answer, but no,

00:57:10.367 --> 00:57:11.187
Rupert Isaacson: it was a great answer.

00:57:11.517 --> 00:57:14.927
And I do see that there's an
indigenous tradition line coming

00:57:14.997 --> 00:57:17.457
through here, both within your family.

00:57:18.007 --> 00:57:21.367
And of course, within
William Garner Sutherland.

00:57:22.087 --> 00:57:24.667
And that I begin to see
these patterns coalescing.

00:57:25.227 --> 00:57:30.277
That are traditionally,
traditional esoteric body work.

00:57:30.497 --> 00:57:32.227
That's now coming to
the western mainstream.

00:57:32.587 --> 00:57:34.097
Talk to us about your horse background.

00:57:34.147 --> 00:57:35.087
Why were you in horses?

00:57:35.087 --> 00:57:37.897
Why did you have an equine facility
in the Santa Cruz mountains?

00:57:38.347 --> 00:57:39.437
How did you get into horses?

00:57:40.507 --> 00:57:41.737
What's been your horse journey?

00:57:43.377 --> 00:57:43.897
I,

00:57:44.397 --> 00:57:49.687
Shae Stewart: when I was about
six or seven, I met my first horse

00:57:49.897 --> 00:57:55.947
and was completely obsessed and
my dad had had horses as a child

00:57:56.287 --> 00:57:57.897
and rode, and this was in Texas.

00:57:58.997 --> 00:58:05.867
And so they put me in lessons and
about a year later we were, had moved

00:58:05.867 --> 00:58:08.507
out to the country and we had horses.

00:58:08.707 --> 00:58:11.517
My dad, I had a horse, my dad had
a horse, my brother had a horse.

00:58:12.227 --> 00:58:20.117
I had horse people in my family and
I was taking jumping lessons and

00:58:20.837 --> 00:58:24.287
we lived so far out in the country
that there weren't many kids.

00:58:24.887 --> 00:58:25.977
And I preferred.

00:58:27.527 --> 00:58:29.537
Being around animals anyway.

00:58:30.197 --> 00:58:36.707
And so that's how it started.

00:58:37.227 --> 00:58:45.787
And I rode things, things kind of
went awry when my mother died and

00:58:46.817 --> 00:58:50.737
I lost the love for much in life.

00:58:51.387 --> 00:58:53.397
You know, it was like
just a shell of a person.

00:58:54.177 --> 00:59:02.257
And then in my twenties, I started
riding again and I was leasing horses.

00:59:02.257 --> 00:59:03.237
And it was a matter of time.

00:59:03.237 --> 00:59:08.847
I just, I ended up with a horse
and I was had a knack for them.

00:59:08.847 --> 00:59:16.037
I was just good around horses and I could,
I was really good at horses that were.

00:59:17.112 --> 00:59:23.862
Troubled and heightened, I could,
I was really good at bringing them

00:59:23.862 --> 00:59:30.402
down and I started I bought a place
out in the Santa Cruz mountains when

00:59:30.402 --> 00:59:37.532
the area was depressed because of
the earthquake in 89 and right after.

00:59:37.892 --> 00:59:45.832
I bought a house, the area boomed and the
place where I kept my horse, they decided

00:59:45.832 --> 00:59:48.812
to move and so I was able to buy it.

00:59:49.682 --> 00:59:51.092
It was really run down.

00:59:51.102 --> 00:59:54.572
You know, I had, you know, I got a deal
because it was needed a lot of work.

00:59:55.152 --> 01:00:01.182
And that's when I started training
and I had a mentor that I met.

01:00:02.022 --> 01:00:07.132
Probably the late nineties
and he was just amazing.

01:00:07.142 --> 01:00:10.472
He really worked with the horse's thought.

01:00:10.482 --> 01:00:14.952
He talked to, he talks about directing
their thought helping them feel

01:00:14.952 --> 01:00:17.052
better about what's being asked.

01:00:17.652 --> 01:00:19.712
And that's who I studied from.

01:00:19.752 --> 01:00:24.262
And I would spend like five
weeks a year in Arizona bringing

01:00:24.902 --> 01:00:27.122
the most messed up horses.

01:00:27.742 --> 01:00:33.792
You could think of, and because that's
how, who came to me, people, I was like

01:00:33.792 --> 01:00:36.722
the last straw, can you fix this horse?

01:00:37.452 --> 01:00:42.942
So that's how I got into hoof trimming
and saddle fitting and body work.

01:00:42.952 --> 01:00:47.012
Cause it all, it all, you know,
you have to know you can't just

01:00:47.432 --> 01:00:52.302
train behaviors out of them.

01:00:53.172 --> 01:00:58.412
And I did that for 15 years or so.

01:00:58.522 --> 01:00:59.002
Who was this

01:00:59.002 --> 01:00:59.452
Rupert Isaacson: mentor?

01:00:59.452 --> 01:00:59.972
What was his name?

01:01:01.472 --> 01:01:02.262
Harry Whitney.

01:01:02.742 --> 01:01:03.572
Harry Whitney.

01:01:04.702 --> 01:01:05.092
Mm hmm.

01:01:05.922 --> 01:01:07.662
Shae Stewart: He is in Arizona.

01:01:09.282 --> 01:01:10.802
He used to be in Arizona.

01:01:10.812 --> 01:01:12.142
He travels all over the U.

01:01:12.142 --> 01:01:12.382
S.

01:01:12.432 --> 01:01:13.562
and teaches clinics.

01:01:13.862 --> 01:01:14.512
He's still around.

01:01:14.522 --> 01:01:15.622
Yeah, he's still around.

01:01:16.782 --> 01:01:18.292
He flies under the radar.

01:01:18.902 --> 01:01:21.072
He, have you ever heard of Tom Dorrance?

01:01:21.522 --> 01:01:21.852
Yes.

01:01:23.502 --> 01:01:24.002
Okay.

01:01:25.372 --> 01:01:26.862
He was friends with Tom.

01:01:29.002 --> 01:01:29.552
So,

01:01:29.902 --> 01:01:30.212
Rupert Isaacson: okay.

01:01:30.242 --> 01:01:33.722
How did you, how did you meet him?

01:01:35.582 --> 01:01:40.442
Shae Stewart: He, when I first moved to
the Santa Cruz mountains and first thing I

01:01:40.442 --> 01:01:46.182
did was look up a place where I could ride
horses and like the first or second week

01:01:46.182 --> 01:01:48.452
I was there, he was coming for a clinic.

01:01:48.592 --> 01:01:48.622
Okay.

01:01:50.627 --> 01:01:52.527
And I didn't even know what a clinic was.

01:01:52.537 --> 01:01:55.697
This was before horse
clinics were a thing.

01:01:56.487 --> 01:01:59.857
And and the woman who owned
the place said, do you want

01:01:59.857 --> 01:02:01.267
to sign up for this clinic?

01:02:01.777 --> 01:02:02.707
I was like, sure.

01:02:03.817 --> 01:02:04.997
So that's how I met Harry.

01:02:06.057 --> 01:02:08.337
Rupert Isaacson: And what were you
doing for a living at this point?

01:02:08.527 --> 01:02:11.207
You weren't a professional with
horses at this point, were you?

01:02:12.887 --> 01:02:13.817
Shae Stewart: No, I was not.

01:02:13.907 --> 01:02:15.107
I was a flight attendant.

01:02:15.517 --> 01:02:15.887
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:02:17.597 --> 01:02:19.917
And you did that for a
number of years, I presume.

01:02:21.847 --> 01:02:24.077
Shae Stewart: Yes, I got that job.

01:02:24.767 --> 01:02:29.957
I was in college and I was knew what
I wanted to get into art therapy.

01:02:30.502 --> 01:02:38.942
And I wasn't being very supported
from the parents, my dad and his

01:02:38.942 --> 01:02:41.002
wife thought that was just nuts.

01:02:41.982 --> 01:02:46.232
And so it kind of killed my
confidence of what do I want to do?

01:02:46.242 --> 01:02:47.482
What do I want to study?

01:02:48.052 --> 01:02:53.092
And so I thought, well,
I needed a new reality.

01:02:53.992 --> 01:02:59.692
I needed a, I needed, I knew I was
not in a good place and I needed

01:02:59.982 --> 01:03:03.542
something I needed to change my reality.

01:03:03.542 --> 01:03:08.622
So I ended up, I knew a woman
who was a flight attendant

01:03:08.622 --> 01:03:10.112
and her husband was a pilot.

01:03:10.572 --> 01:03:16.412
And I thought, well, that that
will be a cool job to get me out

01:03:16.412 --> 01:03:18.992
of here and go see the world.

01:03:19.937 --> 01:03:22.717
And so I started that when I was 20,

01:03:23.807 --> 01:03:26.707
Rupert Isaacson: I could also
imagine that it would lead to

01:03:26.707 --> 01:03:28.517
quite a lot of exhaustion jet lag.

01:03:28.557 --> 01:03:34.017
And if you were, if you were compounding
that with grief from this untimely death

01:03:34.027 --> 01:03:36.587
of your mother, that at a certain point.

01:03:37.537 --> 01:03:42.087
your body might take you by the scruff of
the neck and give you a bit of a shake.

01:03:42.897 --> 01:03:44.327
Did that indeed happen?

01:03:44.367 --> 01:03:49.457
And, and did craniosacral,
is that partly why you sought

01:03:49.457 --> 01:03:50.877
out craniosacral for yourself?

01:03:52.707 --> 01:03:57.957
Shae Stewart: Yes, that's the, it was,
yeah, the migraines were debilitating and

01:03:58.007 --> 01:04:01.507
craniosacral was it was life changing.

01:04:01.527 --> 01:04:07.527
It was like that part in the, you
know, the movie The Wizard of Oz.

01:04:08.322 --> 01:04:11.542
When it's black and white
and then she gets to Oz and

01:04:11.542 --> 01:04:13.672
everything's in this vibrant color.

01:04:14.102 --> 01:04:17.132
Yeah, that's what I feel
like after my first session.

01:04:17.422 --> 01:04:17.912
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:04:19.572 --> 01:04:19.992
All right.

01:04:19.992 --> 01:04:26.792
Well, I'd like to lead the conversation
into some, some practical areas because

01:04:26.802 --> 01:04:33.322
those of us who work with horses
all the time, we want our horses.

01:04:34.537 --> 01:04:37.537
To feel as good as they possibly
can, particularly if their job is to

01:04:37.537 --> 01:04:39.217
transmit well being to other people.

01:04:39.877 --> 01:04:44.587
But also, as I'm sure you know,
in the therapeutic world, we

01:04:44.887 --> 01:04:46.547
mostly deal with donation horses.

01:04:46.577 --> 01:04:48.907
And people donate horses for a reason.

01:04:49.297 --> 01:04:50.007
Usually they come.

01:04:50.537 --> 01:04:51.157
Fairly messed up.

01:04:51.337 --> 01:04:55.227
And so as I said at the beginning of
this conversation with Horseboy Method,

01:04:55.227 --> 01:05:00.587
with Athena, with our mounted, with our
horse equine programs, we spend a lot

01:05:00.587 --> 01:05:05.957
of time with lunging in hand work, long
reining work, giving horses crazy time,

01:05:05.957 --> 01:05:10.407
free jumping, lots of trail riding,
lots of unmounted work, lots of just

01:05:10.407 --> 01:05:11.737
rebuilding them and rebuilding them.

01:05:11.737 --> 01:05:13.047
We get good results.

01:05:13.117 --> 01:05:16.407
But we're always looking
for how to be better.

01:05:18.717 --> 01:05:21.317
I asked you also about
certain patterns that you see.

01:05:22.127 --> 01:05:23.647
when horses come in front of you.

01:05:23.647 --> 01:05:26.557
So I definitely see a
certain number of patterns.

01:05:26.557 --> 01:05:29.587
We now have over, you know, probably
over a hundred locations that

01:05:29.587 --> 01:05:31.227
do say horse boy in the world.

01:05:31.227 --> 01:05:34.497
And I'm always going out to them and
there's their new crop of donation

01:05:34.507 --> 01:05:36.787
horses and go, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:37.297 --> 01:05:43.737
So I could identify sort of five
or 10 things that I see regularly.

01:05:43.997 --> 01:05:48.247
Could I, and I'm sure a lot of listeners
do, could I ask you about those things?

01:05:49.152 --> 01:05:54.382
Through your lens, and perhaps you
could give us some insights into

01:05:54.382 --> 01:05:57.782
what could be behind them and what
could be good approaches for them.

01:05:59.672 --> 01:06:01.522
I think people would
find that very helpful.

01:06:02.592 --> 01:06:03.962
Could I start with the first one?

01:06:04.382 --> 01:06:08.762
The first thing we almost always see is

01:06:12.922 --> 01:06:14.322
congenital weakness.

01:06:15.217 --> 01:06:22.147
In the loin and the stifle that
Lee that shows itself almost as,

01:06:22.207 --> 01:06:24.687
as, as, as lameness, but not quite.

01:06:25.927 --> 01:06:31.347
And we spend a lot of time strengthening
those 2 parts of the horse.

01:06:33.067 --> 01:06:35.627
But we definitely noticed that
almost every horse that comes

01:06:35.627 --> 01:06:38.007
in front of our eyes has this.

01:06:40.067 --> 01:06:40.727
Why is that?

01:06:40.827 --> 01:06:41.467
Do you think?

01:06:42.007 --> 01:06:46.377
And what's your go to there?

01:06:50.467 --> 01:06:53.417
Shae Stewart: I think
they get weak there from

01:06:57.697 --> 01:06:58.997
a posture imbalance.

01:07:00.022 --> 01:07:07.282
And how they're ridden and any kind of
head compression can cause this weakness.

01:07:08.182 --> 01:07:09.962
It'll throw off their posture.

01:07:10.612 --> 01:07:17.382
And so you get on them and, or
you do in hand work and you train,

01:07:17.412 --> 01:07:19.152
try to train the correct muscles.

01:07:19.782 --> 01:07:25.112
But if their nervous system is not
regulated, if they're stuck in a

01:07:25.112 --> 01:07:29.342
heightened state and their nervous
system, you're going to be fighting

01:07:29.342 --> 01:07:33.402
against that because it's the
brain telling the body how to be.

01:07:33.582 --> 01:07:34.202
It's not.

01:07:36.862 --> 01:07:39.042
a muscle that just needs
to be strengthened.

01:07:39.662 --> 01:07:44.282
Where craniosacral shines is
the work on the nervous system.

01:07:46.532 --> 01:07:51.592
So I believe that's where it
starts and that's where you

01:07:51.592 --> 01:07:53.832
can see the biggest change.

01:07:56.042 --> 01:07:58.192
I had another thought, but it went away

01:08:00.792 --> 01:08:01.522
Rupert Isaacson: about that.

01:08:04.472 --> 01:08:05.942
Perhaps it will come back.

01:08:06.082 --> 01:08:08.422
If we turn our attention to
another thought, maybe that

01:08:08.422 --> 01:08:11.342
thought will come back because I
would like to hear it if possible.

01:08:11.862 --> 01:08:14.952
I'm just going to move up,
move up the body a little bit.

01:08:15.052 --> 01:08:18.902
So there are two other ones,
which, you know, we often see.

01:08:19.772 --> 01:08:24.462
Kissing spine is something we often
see thoracic kissing spine in horses

01:08:24.462 --> 01:08:30.402
that have been jumpers and lumbar
kissing spine could be from anything.

01:08:31.282 --> 01:08:36.192
Again, we have ways of addressing it and
sometimes we can be quite successful.

01:08:36.332 --> 01:08:40.622
However, I would dearly love to know more.

01:08:41.322 --> 01:08:47.712
And again, can you just tell me
your thoughts on, on those two

01:08:50.462 --> 01:08:50.692
Shae Stewart: things?

01:08:50.792 --> 01:09:02.652
Well, another thought about this whole
thing is, we, we, any mammal, humans,

01:09:02.832 --> 01:09:07.672
horses, Dogs, you know, whatever
can have what's called a contract.

01:09:07.672 --> 01:09:08.482
Who force.

01:09:09.772 --> 01:09:17.142
So say, you know, horse gets runs
into a fence on their shoulder, their

01:09:17.142 --> 01:09:22.202
left shoulder, and that force can
travel down through the body and end

01:09:22.202 --> 01:09:24.382
up causing an issue and the right hip.

01:09:27.182 --> 01:09:33.722
So pinpointing where some of these
things are from, this is why craniosacral

01:09:33.732 --> 01:09:37.952
helps because we don't go in and
try to fix, we try to expand health.

01:09:39.262 --> 01:09:47.982
And plus the, the point in the body that
might be hurting might not have anything

01:09:47.982 --> 01:09:51.782
to do with where the initial problem is.

01:09:53.462 --> 01:09:55.162
Kissing spine is very common.

01:09:55.162 --> 01:09:59.252
I don't know if it's because now we can,
we have better imaging, we can see it.

01:10:00.737 --> 01:10:04.557
You know, maybe it's been there this
whole time and now we can diagnose it.

01:10:05.437 --> 01:10:10.687
It's usually the, there are surgeries, but
the surgeries are not a one and done deal.

01:10:10.727 --> 01:10:15.437
Usually there's problems in the
entire spine, not just the thoracics.

01:10:16.537 --> 01:10:17.027
Or the

01:10:18.127 --> 01:10:19.817
Rupert Isaacson: the things that
stick up off the top of the spine

01:10:19.997 --> 01:10:21.577
Shae Stewart: that stick
out from their spine,

01:10:22.707 --> 01:10:29.607
So there can be arthritis in the actual
vertebrae as well with kissing spine.

01:10:29.887 --> 01:10:34.977
And, you know, once again, I'll
take it back to the nervous system.

01:10:35.077 --> 01:10:35.407
Yeah.

01:10:36.727 --> 01:10:41.717
The fluid body, the, and even, even
when you do a therapeutic approach,

01:10:41.787 --> 01:10:49.137
like chiropractor, chiropractic or
osteopathy, it's still, it's introducing

01:10:49.157 --> 01:10:56.077
a force into the system and there
can be a ripple effect of that.

01:10:57.557 --> 01:11:01.217
And that's where craniosacral
can come in and help help

01:11:01.917 --> 01:11:04.167
those rhythms match up better.

01:11:06.482 --> 01:11:08.332
The breathing rhythms in the system,

01:11:10.352 --> 01:11:13.142
Rupert Isaacson: arthritis, of
course, you know, one is obviously

01:11:13.142 --> 01:11:14.412
going to be seeing a lot of this.

01:11:14.552 --> 01:11:18.692
Most horses that are donated
are older and have had careers.

01:11:18.902 --> 01:11:21.692
So there's wear and tear on the body
on the cartilage and on the bone.

01:11:22.312 --> 01:11:25.752
Let alone, you know, tendons
and ligaments to with.

01:11:26.377 --> 01:11:27.137
Arthritis.

01:11:28.767 --> 01:11:33.707
One thing that we have seen is that
what can appear to be really chronic

01:11:33.707 --> 01:11:39.207
arthritis, we often find kind of, at
least symptomatically, kind of goes away.

01:11:40.057 --> 01:11:46.697
When we do a lot of gentle in hand
work, we, we find the same thing with

01:11:46.697 --> 01:11:50.547
a lot of the kissing spine issues,
but we have to take some time over it.

01:11:50.557 --> 01:11:51.977
This is not a rushed process.

01:11:52.787 --> 01:11:57.787
There's that word again, the processes,
they're in process but when, when when

01:11:58.677 --> 01:12:01.737
arthritis, for example, seems to dissipate

01:12:04.867 --> 01:12:10.237
is in fact, what we think of
as bone deterioration, is it

01:12:10.237 --> 01:12:13.107
actually more tightened fascia?

01:12:13.989 --> 01:12:18.989
Shae Stewart: I wonder about these things
because I've seen one of the places I

01:12:19.019 --> 01:12:29.089
teach is a YMCA camp and they, they're,
they have all their horses are donated and

01:12:32.659 --> 01:12:34.569
they, they're all arthritic.

01:12:37.414 --> 01:12:41.894
And the, the ease of movement that
comes, you know, we're helping the

01:12:41.904 --> 01:12:44.454
body get back to its original source.

01:12:44.964 --> 01:12:52.754
Remember the health, we're, we're holding
the whole system to help find where's

01:12:52.754 --> 01:12:54.694
it not hurt and can we expand this.

01:12:55.369 --> 01:12:57.149
Instead of trying to fix something.

01:12:58.119 --> 01:13:04.969
And we're also talking a lot about
physical problems and there's more

01:13:04.969 --> 01:13:08.979
than just the physical, there's
the mind and the spirit as well.

01:13:09.179 --> 01:13:09.409
Indeed.

01:13:12.324 --> 01:13:17.474
And horses and I've worked with quite
a few quite a few places where they

01:13:17.474 --> 01:13:24.134
have therapeutic horses that, that
are donated and they come with a lot

01:13:24.134 --> 01:13:29.394
of other stuff that's attributing
to their physical problems as well.

01:13:31.004 --> 01:13:33.144
Rupert Isaacson: One of
the things which I find.

01:13:33.524 --> 01:13:41.464
Sometimes troublesome about going
to equine conferences and such where

01:13:41.464 --> 01:13:48.664
people are speaking is that often
it's held up as a sort of abuse if

01:13:48.674 --> 01:13:51.494
horses have been kept in stables and
boxes now and that sort of thing.

01:13:52.124 --> 01:13:59.884
And often the people saying this just
happen to live in geographical areas

01:13:59.884 --> 01:14:03.784
of the American West where they have
access to an awful lot of space.

01:14:05.114 --> 01:14:11.274
And one of the problems I have, it's
not that I think they're necessarily

01:14:11.274 --> 01:14:18.124
wrong, but it's not helpful for somebody
who's, say, keeping a horse in suburban

01:14:18.124 --> 01:14:27.604
New York, or you Frankfurt or London and
what's available to them that they don't

01:14:27.604 --> 01:14:32.424
even own the facility that they're at a
boarding stable there, you know, and they

01:14:32.424 --> 01:14:34.124
don't have power over the environment.

01:14:34.794 --> 01:14:40.544
And so I started thinking about this quite
seriously, because a lot of a lot of the

01:14:40.724 --> 01:14:44.854
therapeutic riding stables we're dealing
with were in urban or peri urban areas.

01:14:46.004 --> 01:14:50.214
And why we couldn't just go to them and
shame them and say, well, you guys suck

01:14:50.234 --> 01:14:51.814
because you know, you're not in Wyoming.

01:14:52.114 --> 01:14:53.764
And so, well, we know we're
not in fucking Wyoming.

01:14:53.774 --> 01:14:55.404
That's why we're trying to do.

01:14:55.684 --> 01:14:58.474
That's why we're serving these
kids from the local housing estate.

01:14:58.624 --> 01:14:59.034
Yeah.

01:14:59.774 --> 01:15:02.884
So, how do we make it better
as best as best as we can.

01:15:02.884 --> 01:15:06.854
So we started looking at how can
we emulate as much as possible.

01:15:07.094 --> 01:15:09.714
Horses in a natural environment
in herds, if they have to be

01:15:09.924 --> 01:15:11.664
kept in confined areas a lot.

01:15:12.164 --> 01:15:13.204
And we work with a.

01:15:14.304 --> 01:15:17.634
A really good urban project in Dublin,
in the middle of Dublin, you think of

01:15:17.634 --> 01:15:20.764
Ireland as all green fields, but this
place is like right in the center of

01:15:20.764 --> 01:15:25.074
Dublin, doing a really crucial service
for kids in a pretty shitty area.

01:15:25.654 --> 01:15:30.524
And we had another place in the middle
of Amsterdam and another, you know, we've

01:15:30.524 --> 01:15:34.874
had quite a few urban horse places and
I'm intrigued by these because they,

01:15:34.884 --> 01:15:36.454
they suddenly are a real challenge.

01:15:36.454 --> 01:15:37.424
And so they're getting.

01:15:37.964 --> 01:15:42.334
the crocked horses and they don't have
much option about how to keep them.

01:15:42.334 --> 01:15:45.424
So one thing we began to
experiment with was just the

01:15:45.434 --> 01:15:46.704
emotional well being of the horse.

01:15:46.704 --> 01:15:48.324
So we said, well, what
does that come down to?

01:15:48.364 --> 01:15:48.544
Really?

01:15:48.544 --> 01:15:50.084
It comes down to, they've
got to be in a herd, right?

01:15:50.714 --> 01:15:54.434
And if they're in a herd and they can
touch up against each other but if they

01:15:54.434 --> 01:16:00.104
can't do that all day, what's the maximum
we could give them and how could we do?

01:16:00.134 --> 01:16:01.304
And then there was a curious.

01:16:02.024 --> 01:16:04.474
They don't want to do the same
thing every day anymore than we do.

01:16:04.974 --> 01:16:10.384
The axons and dendrites in their brain,
you know, become rusty, just like they

01:16:10.384 --> 01:16:14.524
do in ours if we don't do new stuff and
novel movement and blah, blah, blah.

01:16:14.524 --> 01:16:18.494
So we came up with this idea of crazy
time, that you could, in arenas,

01:16:19.034 --> 01:16:20.574
you turn horses out in groups.

01:16:21.579 --> 01:16:26.529
And you encourage them to play,
but you don't chase them around

01:16:26.529 --> 01:16:29.669
too much, you interact with
them and you build playgrounds.

01:16:29.749 --> 01:16:33.149
So if the horses like to jump, well,
okay, we will jumps and things like that.

01:16:33.149 --> 01:16:37.199
But we also have other things in there
for enrichment, like balls that might

01:16:37.199 --> 01:16:39.359
move or other interesting objects.

01:16:39.369 --> 01:16:42.079
And then if they don't jump, well,
maybe it's poles on the ground.

01:16:42.489 --> 01:16:44.049
There's a large element of choice.

01:16:44.049 --> 01:16:46.719
They choose a bit like kids in the
playground, are they gonna go up

01:16:46.719 --> 01:16:47.679
the climbing frame or aren't they?

01:16:47.679 --> 01:16:49.479
But the climbing frame needs to be there.

01:16:49.769 --> 01:16:54.659
But of course, horses are essentially
playful and playful even when they're old.

01:16:54.659 --> 01:16:56.579
And, and playfulness
of course is wellbeing.

01:16:57.149 --> 01:17:01.379
When some, when a playful animal ceases
to be playful, you know, it's in trouble.

01:17:01.434 --> 01:17:05.654
When a kid ceases to be playful, you know,
that kid's in trouble or even an adult.

01:17:06.224 --> 01:17:13.219
So, We encourage play and teaching people
enough tact, equestrian tact, to keep the

01:17:13.219 --> 01:17:16.519
play going, because the horses actually
enjoy that interaction with the monkeys.

01:17:16.829 --> 01:17:18.169
They're like, well, what's next then?

01:17:18.379 --> 01:17:22.789
And then also to change up the
playground every two, three minutes.

01:17:23.189 --> 01:17:24.169
You change the jumps a bit.

01:17:24.189 --> 01:17:25.519
You change what's on the ground a bit.

01:17:25.539 --> 01:17:26.479
You chuck a ball at them.

01:17:26.479 --> 01:17:26.949
You do this.

01:17:26.979 --> 01:17:27.439
You do that.

01:17:27.449 --> 01:17:29.129
You put some interesting object there.

01:17:29.129 --> 01:17:31.759
You take it away just so that
they're like, oh, what's next?

01:17:32.199 --> 01:17:35.689
And we found that if we dedicated.

01:17:36.424 --> 01:17:40.674
X number of hours per week to doing
this in these areas, which were by

01:17:40.674 --> 01:17:45.004
no means ideal for keeping horses,
everything in the horse has changed.

01:17:45.584 --> 01:17:47.124
Physically, as well as mentally.

01:17:47.654 --> 01:17:51.274
And then we had to come up with, well,
how do you make this not a time conflict?

01:17:51.664 --> 01:17:56.264
Because, of course, these stables are
seeing, you know, a lot of clients.

01:17:57.014 --> 01:17:59.094
And then we said, ah, but what
if that was the session where

01:17:59.094 --> 01:17:59.834
you're seeing the client?

01:18:00.524 --> 01:18:03.314
And then what if, so
we, we now have a whole.

01:18:03.669 --> 01:18:07.599
set of things we call crazy time because
kids want crazy time too and adults

01:18:07.599 --> 01:18:11.009
want crazy time and it becomes about
teaching them horsemanship or it could

01:18:11.019 --> 01:18:15.149
be about teaching them maths because
we can mark out the distances and the

01:18:15.229 --> 01:18:18.649
heights and the widths of the fences
and all the materials that are the types

01:18:18.649 --> 01:18:22.639
of wood that the jumps are made from or
the poles are made from or any number

01:18:22.689 --> 01:18:27.649
of things that we can do and so that
that those crazy time sessions are paid.

01:18:28.544 --> 01:18:30.424
So there's no time conflict anymore.

01:18:30.684 --> 01:18:33.324
So it's a kind of win, win, win
the horse gets what they need.

01:18:33.464 --> 01:18:35.134
The client definitely gets what they need.

01:18:35.134 --> 01:18:39.774
And you, the facility owner get
what you need, because not only are

01:18:39.774 --> 01:18:42.784
you serving your client, but you're
serving your horse and but it.

01:18:43.274 --> 01:18:50.494
It was looking at the site, as you said,
that beyond the body, and we found that

01:18:51.994 --> 01:18:56.514
the body stuff then obviously responded
better to the body stuff that we were

01:18:56.514 --> 01:19:00.694
doing with the lunging and that sort of
training and the, the, the in hand work.

01:19:02.374 --> 01:19:04.804
But really it seemed to me that what
we were coming down to was happiness.

01:19:05.934 --> 01:19:10.084
And that could take many forms and then
I began to look at horses that were kept

01:19:10.094 --> 01:19:13.864
in large pastures and realizing that
they weren't necessarily that happy.

01:19:14.729 --> 01:19:18.439
They definitely, you know, it was more
optimal than horses that were kept

01:19:18.439 --> 01:19:21.489
in boxes, but I began to see plenty
of depressed horses in pastures.

01:19:21.539 --> 01:19:22.599
And that was intriguing to us.

01:19:22.629 --> 01:19:24.159
Well, why would they be
depressed in a pasture?

01:19:24.499 --> 01:19:26.099
Because surely they're getting
kind of what they need.

01:19:26.099 --> 01:19:30.359
But it seemed to me that the quality
of the interaction with each other and

01:19:30.359 --> 01:19:34.799
with the humans, if that was somehow
lacking, that could lead to boredom.

01:19:35.859 --> 01:19:38.419
And which is a sort of
form of unhappiness, even

01:19:38.419 --> 01:19:39.639
though they're eating grass.

01:19:40.229 --> 01:19:41.979
What do you think about that?

01:19:41.989 --> 01:19:46.949
This, this idea, it seems to me more
and more that the curiosity and play

01:19:47.939 --> 01:19:52.389
are really at the root of well being.

01:19:53.729 --> 01:19:58.569
And that this is something
that is not really looked at in

01:19:59.059 --> 01:20:00.649
organisms of any kind really.

01:20:00.919 --> 01:20:05.019
And where might this come into the
cranial sacral and nervous system?

01:20:05.019 --> 01:20:06.609
What, what, what's going on with that?

01:20:06.869 --> 01:20:07.389
Do you think?

01:20:08.084 --> 01:20:08.764
I think

01:20:08.764 --> 01:20:10.814
Shae Stewart: that's all a great idea.

01:20:10.824 --> 01:20:17.264
And when I, when I trained and,
and studied with Harry, he,

01:20:17.604 --> 01:20:19.214
he talked a lot about that.

01:20:19.739 --> 01:20:24.079
Getting the horse make helping the
horse find interest in what you're

01:20:24.079 --> 01:20:32.709
doing and be mentally engaged and,
and not stressed out or not shut down.

01:20:33.289 --> 01:20:36.179
I've seen horses that lived in her.

01:20:37.044 --> 01:20:40.604
Outside and pastures, but it
was such a dysfunctional herd.

01:20:41.324 --> 01:20:45.864
They, they were just difficult,
difficult horses to handle.

01:20:46.194 --> 01:20:51.714
And my place in California, they lived
in small paddocks cause it's, it was

01:20:51.714 --> 01:20:59.724
on the side of a mountain and we did
the best we could and they, we rarely

01:20:59.724 --> 01:21:03.404
had colics, the vets would always.

01:21:03.854 --> 01:21:05.534
Say, why don't you have colics here?

01:21:05.534 --> 01:21:08.654
The place down the street, they
call it every week, somebody's

01:21:08.654 --> 01:21:14.564
colicking and there just wasn't that
much, there was not much injuries.

01:21:14.914 --> 01:21:19.744
So I think there's a lot to
that, keeping them curious.

01:21:20.899 --> 01:21:22.679
Changing thing up things up.

01:21:22.689 --> 01:21:24.219
We had barrels in the arena.

01:21:24.229 --> 01:21:27.889
We do all kinds of things with
those and where the cranial

01:21:27.889 --> 01:21:30.229
sacral comes in as it helps.

01:21:30.709 --> 01:21:34.459
It helps the body let go
helps the nervous system.

01:21:34.459 --> 01:21:39.839
The body let go of stresses
inside the system that it that

01:21:40.489 --> 01:21:43.979
it's been holding on to and.

01:21:45.004 --> 01:21:53.564
And the craniosacral work is giving their
nervous system a safe place to let things

01:21:53.644 --> 01:21:55.584
that have been stored deep in the cracks.

01:21:56.349 --> 01:22:00.459
Help those cracks open and let
them out, whether it's you know, an

01:22:00.469 --> 01:22:10.669
injury or, or some emotional thing
in there that's stored, that's, you

01:22:10.669 --> 01:22:13.599
know, trapped in the system, so to

01:22:13.599 --> 01:22:13.819
Rupert Isaacson: speak.

01:22:13.819 --> 01:22:16.539
When you say in the cracks, do you
actually mean in cracks, like in the

01:22:16.539 --> 01:22:22.019
cracks between the plates of the,
of the brain, of the, of the skull?

01:22:22.429 --> 01:22:23.869
Metaphoric cracks.

01:22:24.009 --> 01:22:24.829
Metaphoric cracks.

01:22:25.209 --> 01:22:25.689
Yeah.

01:22:27.019 --> 01:22:31.304
But I guess it is true, is it
not, that People say I don't,

01:22:31.544 --> 01:22:32.514
do you think this is true?

01:22:32.564 --> 01:22:36.384
That memory is to a large
degree carried in muscle.

01:22:37.344 --> 01:22:41.014
And that's why people say, Oh, you
know, I did this yoga pose and then

01:22:41.014 --> 01:22:42.354
suddenly there's my grandfather.

01:22:43.634 --> 01:22:46.274
I remember my grandfather telling
me this joke, you know, that

01:22:46.294 --> 01:22:48.484
I've completely forgotten when I
was five or something like that.

01:22:48.984 --> 01:22:52.974
Do you, this, this idea is, I'm a bit
intrigued by what you said just now about.

01:22:54.179 --> 01:22:58.429
That where the cranial sacral will come in
is that it helps let go of stored stress.

01:22:59.919 --> 01:23:00.329
Shae Stewart: Yes.

01:23:00.389 --> 01:23:05.169
And, and the, my training, we
look at it as stored in the

01:23:05.169 --> 01:23:07.139
fluids and the fluid body.

01:23:09.379 --> 01:23:15.389
So it goes deeper than muscle
memory, deeper than cellular memory.

01:23:15.769 --> 01:23:17.219
It's, it's stored in the fluids.

01:23:20.909 --> 01:23:29.009
And if you think about, imagine
that we have inside of our skin,

01:23:29.749 --> 01:23:33.229
if we were like a water balloon.

01:23:34.569 --> 01:23:39.339
And there's different there's
slower rhythms down in the deep.

01:23:40.019 --> 01:23:43.129
And then as you get more
surface level, it gets faster.

01:23:43.819 --> 01:23:48.089
The faster rhythms are usually
where the dysfunction is stored.

01:23:48.729 --> 01:23:52.349
And the slower rhythms
can't push that out.

01:23:53.099 --> 01:23:54.989
Because it's, it's trapped in there.

01:23:55.809 --> 01:23:58.439
And it's, it's deeper
than a muscle memory.

01:23:58.439 --> 01:24:00.509
So in a craniosacral session,

01:24:03.839 --> 01:24:08.989
sometimes like I was working on
a horse not too long ago, and I

01:24:08.989 --> 01:24:15.729
got as a sense of, I had a vision
of the horse just standing in the

01:24:15.729 --> 01:24:19.599
pasture, staring out into the forest.

01:24:20.619 --> 01:24:26.089
And I felt the sense of
emptiness, just empty.

01:24:30.149 --> 01:24:39.039
About five minutes of the horse processing
this and I was getting this vision about

01:24:39.039 --> 01:24:43.949
five minutes later, the owner said, I'll
tell you about the horses that just died

01:24:45.499 --> 01:24:51.249
and she told me about how the two oldest
horses had died pretty close together.

01:24:52.019 --> 01:24:53.209
And she said, ever since.

01:24:55.124 --> 01:25:00.604
They died, this mare that I was
working on stands out in the pasture

01:25:00.634 --> 01:25:02.574
and just stares out into the forest.

01:25:03.634 --> 01:25:07.764
And she doesn't follow the other herd
when they go to the next pasture.

01:25:07.824 --> 01:25:09.404
She just stands there and stares.

01:25:10.644 --> 01:25:15.464
And situations like that
happen often in a session.

01:25:15.594 --> 01:25:23.914
And the way I look at it is the,
the sadness, or I don't know if

01:25:23.914 --> 01:25:25.314
I want to use the word trauma.

01:25:25.754 --> 01:25:32.874
But the, the, what the horse went
through is processing out of the system.

01:25:34.434 --> 01:25:37.584
And I believe that's why I get the vision.

01:25:38.004 --> 01:25:42.934
And then the owner picked it up too,
without realizing what she was picking up.

01:25:44.804 --> 01:25:48.284
Rupert Isaacson: When you get that
vision, do you feel, and when that

01:25:48.284 --> 01:25:53.584
horse is exhibiting that behavior,
the staring, is that the sadness

01:25:53.854 --> 01:25:56.794
going through its process, bubbling,
bubbling to the surface, and then

01:25:56.794 --> 01:25:58.704
eventually being able to be released.

01:25:59.219 --> 01:25:59.549
Yes.

01:26:00.619 --> 01:26:07.709
And is your job to expedite that
process, basically, to help smooth

01:26:07.709 --> 01:26:08.629
Shae Stewart: out the process?

01:26:08.629 --> 01:26:09.049
To hold space.

01:26:09.049 --> 01:26:09.259
Yeah.

01:26:09.869 --> 01:26:11.889
Hold space to allow it to happen.

01:26:12.429 --> 01:26:19.749
And by me becoming aware of it does
help reinforce the system to let it go.

01:26:22.019 --> 01:26:23.239
Rupert Isaacson: Have you
seen a change in the mayor?

01:26:23.249 --> 01:26:24.639
Mm hmm.

01:26:25.679 --> 01:26:26.049
Shae Stewart: Yeah.

01:26:26.049 --> 01:26:27.959
She, and when this.

01:26:28.539 --> 01:26:30.039
I've had it happen.

01:26:30.619 --> 01:26:37.999
Sometimes when when things release from
the horse's system, it, you may feel heat,

01:26:38.249 --> 01:26:41.009
actual heat come off right under my hands.

01:26:41.009 --> 01:26:44.969
It'll get maybe even
sweaty or these visions.

01:26:45.884 --> 01:26:50.174
Of of an image of whatever
they're processing.

01:26:51.904 --> 01:26:55.954
I've I've seen an image of
the horse pulling back and

01:26:55.954 --> 01:26:58.074
cross ties and falling down.

01:26:58.534 --> 01:27:03.464
And when it when it releases,
there's a shift in the tide.

01:27:04.204 --> 01:27:09.784
That I'm surfing on in the system,
it'll, there'll just be a shift

01:27:09.784 --> 01:27:11.174
and everything will slow down.

01:27:13.904 --> 01:27:18.444
Rupert Isaacson: It's this thing about
faster rhythms and slower rhythms.

01:27:19.864 --> 01:27:23.584
This seems to me to have a
parallel in brainwave states now.

01:27:24.724 --> 01:27:32.924
So if the accepted wisdom is that
the slower your brainwave state,

01:27:33.734 --> 01:27:39.174
the more functional in certain ways.

01:27:39.184 --> 01:27:42.004
So if you're tied up to an EEG.

01:27:42.919 --> 01:27:45.899
Machine that's measuring your
brainwaves, for example, if you had

01:27:45.899 --> 01:27:52.469
epilepsy or something and they were
that if you were having fits seizures.

01:27:53.879 --> 01:28:01.199
Brainwaves would be going very fast
and anything that slows them down seems

01:28:01.199 --> 01:28:08.979
to be better and it seems that the
the main Functional states that have

01:28:08.979 --> 01:28:14.579
been identified in a crude level of
beta, which is the sort of functional

01:28:14.579 --> 01:28:15.649
cheerful All right, how's it going?

01:28:15.649 --> 01:28:16.449
It's my job in it.

01:28:16.969 --> 01:28:17.449
All right, mate.

01:28:17.499 --> 01:28:18.199
All right, you're right.

01:28:18.249 --> 01:28:27.904
I'm right then to alpha being okay
now I need to get Deep breath focus.

01:28:28.034 --> 01:28:32.654
I've got to take that drop kick
over the bars of the goal for this.

01:28:32.654 --> 01:28:37.274
I need to come into slow my brain, slow
my breathing, slow my, and that would

01:28:37.284 --> 01:28:39.124
be measured as an alpha brain state.

01:28:39.844 --> 01:28:45.594
And then if one went a little bit
further than that into a very meditative

01:28:45.594 --> 01:28:49.304
state, perhaps even slightly between
sleeping and waking, that might be

01:28:49.304 --> 01:28:53.504
a theta state where people report
getting a lot of inspired thought.

01:28:54.334 --> 01:28:54.994
And then for.

01:28:55.504 --> 01:28:58.854
When people are in deep REM sleep Delta.

01:29:00.384 --> 01:29:04.864
And it seems that if people can
consciously go into Delta, like some

01:29:04.864 --> 01:29:11.064
shamans and some indigenous cultures,
they hooked up EG machines and found

01:29:11.074 --> 01:29:16.334
that they're in waking lucid Delta
in their trances, that seems to be

01:29:16.334 --> 01:29:17.864
when they can almost bend reality.

01:29:18.714 --> 01:29:19.444
And now.

01:29:19.879 --> 01:29:23.199
Even further states, gamma states
are being, it seems the more they

01:29:23.199 --> 01:29:25.329
go into this, the more they find.

01:29:27.009 --> 01:29:28.389
And of course, these
are electrical currents.

01:29:29.389 --> 01:29:32.219
And these electrical currents are going
through a brain, which is composed

01:29:32.219 --> 01:29:39.719
of fascia tissue which is composed
of liquid, largely, and vibration.

01:29:40.209 --> 01:29:42.479
Cells vibrating at a
distance from each other.

01:29:44.039 --> 01:29:48.709
Is that what's going on when
you're doing your work, that you're

01:29:48.719 --> 01:29:52.399
bringing those rhythms into those.

01:29:54.519 --> 01:29:59.179
Is it, are you bringing those rhythms,
those, those vital rhythms, which

01:29:59.179 --> 01:30:02.109
might be measured in a brainwave state,
might be measured in a heart rate,

01:30:02.119 --> 01:30:07.839
might be measured in flow of cerebral
spinal fluid or lymph or blood perhaps

01:30:07.839 --> 01:30:11.759
would be measured, breathing might be
measured in all of them at the same time.

01:30:15.169 --> 01:30:18.969
Are you bringing those
into a slower resonance?

01:30:19.239 --> 01:30:23.359
And is that what allows something
that you said earlier, which

01:30:23.359 --> 01:30:25.329
I found intriguing, that

01:30:29.149 --> 01:30:34.479
of health to be re accessed?

01:30:35.189 --> 01:30:35.569
Yes.

01:30:36.059 --> 01:30:37.179
Because nothing's now in the way.

01:30:37.189 --> 01:30:38.059
Is that what's going on?

01:30:38.439 --> 01:30:38.739
Yeah,

01:30:38.829 --> 01:30:40.449
Shae Stewart: that's
exactly what's going on.

01:30:41.069 --> 01:30:46.129
That's why it's so important when
you learn this work to understand

01:30:46.129 --> 01:30:48.249
how to orient to the slower rhythms.

01:30:50.179 --> 01:31:01.549
And there's, there are documented
rhythms that have been timed and it

01:31:01.559 --> 01:31:07.849
might not be a rhythm that you feel
moving Because it's too slow, but

01:31:07.849 --> 01:31:10.149
it's a total quality of that state.

01:31:12.109 --> 01:31:12.829
So there's.

01:31:13.409 --> 01:31:20.089
The long tide or primary respiration,
and that's the 100 second cycle

01:31:20.089 --> 01:31:28.789
rhythm that's, that has been, they
find references of this and all over

01:31:28.789 --> 01:31:31.069
the world and nature and science.

01:31:32.664 --> 01:31:34.944
There's even slower rhythms.

01:31:35.224 --> 01:31:41.394
So it's the same with the brainwave
studies, the biodynamic world,

01:31:41.704 --> 01:31:47.684
the more people get into this, the
more they find deeper and slower.

01:31:49.004 --> 01:31:55.414
They call them tides, but it's more
the tonal quality or the visions.

01:31:55.754 --> 01:31:59.204
So there's even there's
a 300 second cycle.

01:31:59.204 --> 01:32:01.144
1 that's been talked about.

01:32:01.554 --> 01:32:03.174
There's a 20 minute cycle.

01:32:03.174 --> 01:32:07.754
1 that is being talked about and there's.

01:32:08.839 --> 01:32:14.599
The rhythm that we all kind of settle in,
which is a mid tide, which is two, two and

01:32:14.599 --> 01:32:21.119
a half cycles a minute, and that when you
can palpate, and then there's a cranial

01:32:21.699 --> 01:32:28.919
rhythmic impulse, which is a faster
rhythm and this might be controversial

01:32:29.759 --> 01:32:34.409
to other craniosacral people what I'm
about to say, but the faster, the.

01:32:34.819 --> 01:32:42.319
Cranial rhythmic impulse is not a
therapeutic tide, and it's not something

01:32:42.319 --> 01:32:48.879
that the even the older osteopaths even
recognized, and in this day and age,

01:32:48.939 --> 01:32:51.829
it's taught as a rhythm to look for.

01:32:52.734 --> 01:32:59.254
But in my training, it's, it's taught as
a rhythm of dysfunction, a rhythm of a,

01:32:59.354 --> 01:33:08.024
of a dysfunctional state of the nervous
system and working with the horses.

01:33:08.064 --> 01:33:13.374
I did go off and do a 2
year, 10 level biodynamic.

01:33:13.669 --> 01:33:19.309
Program for humans, but working with the
horses is what got me to understand the

01:33:19.319 --> 01:33:21.499
slower rhythms because they live in that.

01:33:22.719 --> 01:33:25.519
And I feel a faster rhythm in them.

01:33:25.539 --> 01:33:32.049
Sometimes it's usually an area
that was an acute injury or.

01:33:32.669 --> 01:33:37.719
A recent you know, fall or something
or a recent form of body work where

01:33:37.719 --> 01:33:44.849
they put something in the system that
caused a faster rippling to happen.

01:33:45.219 --> 01:33:46.549
Rupert Isaacson: How do
you feel that rippling?

01:33:48.339 --> 01:33:49.919
How do you feel it faster or slower?

01:33:51.569 --> 01:33:56.419
Shae Stewart: If it's a dysfunctional
rhythm, it's a faster rhythm and I can

01:33:56.639 --> 01:33:58.799
feel it through my hands and in my.

01:33:59.444 --> 01:34:07.694
In my sensories, however, I'm receiving
the, the, it's, it's considered a

01:34:07.694 --> 01:34:11.134
perceived sense or a felt sense.

01:34:12.344 --> 01:34:13.824
Would you feel it as vibration?

01:34:13.864 --> 01:34:15.644
Would you feel it as pulse?

01:34:15.704 --> 01:34:16.484
What would you feel it as?

01:34:17.869 --> 01:34:24.319
The faster dysfunctional rhythms,
I would feel it as a slow vibration

01:34:24.369 --> 01:34:27.759
or just an irregular motion.

01:34:28.149 --> 01:34:33.689
So the bones in our system do have
a pattern of a healthy motion that

01:34:33.699 --> 01:34:39.209
they should move in, you know,
like the frontal bone, the lateral

01:34:39.239 --> 01:34:41.889
edges flare in cranial rhythm.

01:34:43.779 --> 01:34:48.329
And so what I would feel in a
dysfunctional pattern, maybe one

01:34:48.329 --> 01:34:52.789
side is not moving at all and the
other side is moving too fast.

01:34:52.869 --> 01:34:55.789
So I don't feel that fullness
coming into my hands.

01:34:59.259 --> 01:35:04.159
Rupert Isaacson: And why in some forms
of cranial sacral would they think

01:35:04.179 --> 01:35:05.919
that the faster rhythm is a good thing?

01:35:07.834 --> 01:35:14.844
I don't know, do they say it's a good
thing because you feel for this because

01:35:15.964 --> 01:35:23.184
Shae Stewart: it could be the, the
original osteopath who designed the

01:35:23.194 --> 01:35:26.074
program worked in the faster rhythms.

01:35:27.654 --> 01:35:37.154
I have seen and some of the equine
osteopathy, they will feel if they don't

01:35:37.154 --> 01:35:44.094
feel a rhythm, they go in and adjust and
then feel for that rhythm and it's the

01:35:44.094 --> 01:35:46.154
faster rhythm that they're feeling for.

01:35:46.354 --> 01:35:51.454
So they did disrupt the system to bring
that rhythm, but in the biodynamic

01:35:51.504 --> 01:35:54.414
world, we work within the slower motions.

01:35:56.014 --> 01:35:58.784
Rupert Isaacson: When I heard you
talking at Warwick Summit you talked

01:35:58.794 --> 01:36:05.734
about a 50 second rhythmic cycle
and you seemed to feel that that

01:36:05.754 --> 01:36:10.664
was fairly optimal or desirable.

01:36:11.644 --> 01:36:15.234
Can you talk to us a little
bit about what that is and why

01:36:15.254 --> 01:36:16.334
that would be a good thing?

01:36:17.544 --> 01:36:21.364
Shae Stewart: Yes, that, that is
what we call primary respiration,

01:36:23.684 --> 01:36:28.564
primary respiration, and it's a
100 second cycle with the phase

01:36:28.614 --> 01:36:32.604
change every 50 seconds or a minute.

01:36:32.874 --> 01:36:35.444
You can, you can say it's about a minute.

01:36:36.264 --> 01:36:41.034
That is the, that is the primary
respiration is what biodynamic

01:36:41.104 --> 01:36:43.984
craniosacral practitioners orient to.

01:36:45.534 --> 01:36:45.924
And.

01:36:46.564 --> 01:36:53.354
And this is what we're taught is
the healing rhythm that comes from

01:36:53.354 --> 01:36:57.574
nature that flows through our bodies.

01:36:58.274 --> 01:37:03.394
And it's measured in a 100
second cycle minute or cycle.

01:37:03.934 --> 01:37:04.464
Tied.

01:37:07.244 --> 01:37:08.664
Rupert Isaacson: I'm just
looking this up here.

01:37:09.854 --> 01:37:16.934
The first thing that came up when
I typed in primary respiration is.

01:37:18.864 --> 01:37:19.454
Good old Google.

01:37:19.664 --> 01:37:24.974
The primary respiration mechanism,
PRM, tell me if you think this is

01:37:24.974 --> 01:37:31.514
true or not, is a functional unit
based on the accommodative actions

01:37:31.924 --> 01:37:34.634
of cranial articular surfaces.

01:37:35.284 --> 01:37:38.434
Is a cranial articular surface
the bones in your skull?

01:37:40.629 --> 01:37:46.019
Shae Stewart: Maybe the cranial sacral
mechanism, which would be part of

01:37:46.019 --> 01:37:47.879
that would be the bones in the skull.

01:37:49.289 --> 01:37:54.929
Rupert Isaacson: PRM has five distinct
anatomic slash physiologic components,

01:37:55.309 --> 01:38:00.009
colon, the inherent rhythmic motion
of the brain and spinal cord,

01:38:00.759 --> 01:38:03.549
fluctuation of cerebral spinal fluid.

01:38:05.729 --> 01:38:08.799
So reading between the lines
of that is what they're saying.

01:38:10.879 --> 01:38:17.309
If you're in this primary respiratory
rhythm that you're talking about then

01:38:18.589 --> 01:38:26.479
your or the horse's flow of cerebral
spinal fluid Which we began this

01:38:26.479 --> 01:38:30.639
discussion with talking about all the
reasons why that that's a good thing

01:38:31.589 --> 01:38:36.759
if it's in that rhythm Is that the
optimal in terms of source health?

01:38:37.429 --> 01:38:44.119
Is that where you ought to be
when you're a kid and things

01:38:44.119 --> 01:38:45.859
have not yet messed you up?

01:38:47.009 --> 01:38:47.419
Yeah.

01:38:50.114 --> 01:38:54.574
Shae Stewart: Yeah, this is a, this
is the yeah, the, the source it's the,

01:38:56.344 --> 01:38:58.754
it's where, where, where it's all at.

01:38:58.754 --> 01:39:03.454
It's the original source that's
found in nature and inside of us.

01:39:04.254 --> 01:39:06.444
Rupert Isaacson: Do we see these same
things like in the plant kingdom?

01:39:06.444 --> 01:39:10.904
Do we see them in, in osmosis and
do we see them in photosynthesis

01:39:10.904 --> 01:39:11.794
and that sort of thing?

01:39:12.324 --> 01:39:14.904
Does it, do we, do we
even reflect it in other?

01:39:15.649 --> 01:39:19.019
Shae Stewart: Yes, it's been
measured in the plant world.

01:39:19.129 --> 01:39:23.449
There's I think his name, I think
his first name is William Seifrietz.

01:39:24.809 --> 01:39:29.929
He was a botanist from the 50s
and he measured the you can

01:39:29.929 --> 01:39:31.439
look up the YouTube videos.

01:39:31.529 --> 01:39:37.339
The original videos are still on YouTube
with where he studied slime mold.

01:39:37.939 --> 01:39:38.839
Rupert Isaacson: Protoplasm.

01:39:39.239 --> 01:39:40.109
That was him.

01:39:40.969 --> 01:39:42.229
He was the slime mold guy.

01:39:42.519 --> 01:39:42.789
Shae Stewart: Yep.

01:39:42.809 --> 01:39:43.909
William Seyfritz.

01:39:44.539 --> 01:39:45.419
Rupert Isaacson: William.

01:39:46.339 --> 01:39:47.889
I'm typing in William.

01:39:48.919 --> 01:39:50.079
How do I spell Seyfritz?

01:39:56.869 --> 01:40:00.999
Seyfritz or Seyfert?

01:40:01.149 --> 01:40:01.449
Seyfritz.

01:40:02.689 --> 01:40:03.069
I thought

01:40:03.209 --> 01:40:04.859
Shae Stewart: it was
Fritz, but I might be.

01:40:05.559 --> 01:40:06.229
Rupert Isaacson: Slime mold.

01:40:06.359 --> 01:40:06.739
Let me.

01:40:06.739 --> 01:40:09.959
Do I have to type in slime mold guy?

01:40:10.789 --> 01:40:11.229
Shae Stewart: I found it.

01:40:11.459 --> 01:40:13.839
S E I F R I T Z.

01:40:14.329 --> 01:40:16.349
Rupert Isaacson: F R I T Z.

01:40:18.344 --> 01:40:19.364
Shae Stewart: Cyphretes on protoplasm.

01:40:22.364 --> 01:40:24.944
Rupert Isaacson: Okay,
tell us what he found.

01:40:26.194 --> 01:40:31.504
Shae Stewart: He found that there was
a motion within this protoplasm and you

01:40:31.504 --> 01:40:42.294
can see in the video it looks liquid
running up the protoplasm and it'll go one

01:40:42.294 --> 01:40:50.184
direction for 50 seconds, pause, and then
it'll switch and go another direction.

01:40:51.454 --> 01:40:57.224
And they've He, they started playing
with putting toxins in the mold

01:40:57.794 --> 01:41:01.754
to destroy some of it to see what
would happen in the slime mold.

01:41:02.284 --> 01:41:11.584
And they found when it regenerated
that motion, it didn't pick

01:41:11.584 --> 01:41:13.154
up where it was left off.

01:41:13.204 --> 01:41:15.394
It picked up with the rest of it.

01:41:15.974 --> 01:41:22.514
And he, so he determined that it was
being moved from an external source.

01:41:27.489 --> 01:41:31.199
Rupert Isaacson: Did he know, did he
speculate about what that source was?

01:41:31.999 --> 01:41:32.279
Not

01:41:32.279 --> 01:41:33.429
Shae Stewart: that I have found.

01:41:33.709 --> 01:41:35.769
It could be in some of his

01:41:35.769 --> 01:41:36.359
Rupert Isaacson: lectures.

01:41:38.509 --> 01:41:44.059
And just so that people know what
protoplasm is, protoplasm is the

01:41:44.059 --> 01:41:50.029
colorless material comprising the
living part of a cell, including

01:41:50.029 --> 01:41:52.119
the cytoplasm nucleus and other.

01:41:52.849 --> 01:41:53.459
Organelles.

01:41:53.909 --> 01:41:58.059
So what we're talking about there
is the stuff of life, right?

01:41:58.899 --> 01:42:03.049
The stuff that makes up one's
cells, if that is being animated.

01:42:03.059 --> 01:42:08.069
It's interesting if a botanist in
the 50s was speculating that it's

01:42:08.069 --> 01:42:09.749
being moved from some outside source.

01:42:11.219 --> 01:42:13.109
Are we getting, is that what we call God?

01:42:15.359 --> 01:42:20.279
Shae Stewart: That's where we can get
into deeper conversations depending on

01:42:20.279 --> 01:42:24.469
what your source is, whether it's God

01:42:25.399 --> 01:42:26.949
I could look at it as God.

01:42:26.959 --> 01:42:32.939
It feels like when you step into
that when you step into primary

01:42:32.939 --> 01:42:46.109
respiration, it feels like you lose
sense of, of a definition of body.

01:42:47.789 --> 01:42:49.939
And there's a connection to all

01:42:49.939 --> 01:42:50.689
Rupert Isaacson: life form.

01:42:55.759 --> 01:42:57.469
The web rather than the matrix.

01:43:00.179 --> 01:43:00.879
Is that love?

01:43:03.249 --> 01:43:03.409
I

01:43:03.409 --> 01:43:04.289
Shae Stewart: think it...

01:43:04.804 --> 01:43:07.914
It can boil down to unconditional love.

01:43:09.434 --> 01:43:10.414
Rupert Isaacson: It sounds like it.

01:43:10.884 --> 01:43:15.194
When, when I've ever asked a a
traditional healer, I've worked with

01:43:15.194 --> 01:43:19.404
different ones around the world, and
whenever I've asked them in whatever

01:43:19.404 --> 01:43:23.524
tradition, whatever geographical location
they're in, could be as diverse as

01:43:23.684 --> 01:43:33.244
subarctic Canada to the Kalahari to
Australian rainforest to other places.

01:43:34.244 --> 01:43:41.414
And I've said, well, what is it,
this force that you're using this

01:43:41.894 --> 01:43:47.904
cerebral spinal fluid, this Kundalini,
this chi, this key, this num, I

01:43:47.904 --> 01:43:49.554
get the same answer every time.

01:43:50.894 --> 01:43:53.464
What they always say is,
Oh, that's easy, Ruth.

01:43:53.474 --> 01:43:54.584
That's just, it's just love.

01:43:55.504 --> 01:43:58.424
But with a certain training
process, you can learn to direct it.

01:44:00.604 --> 01:44:09.044
And I think I've heard that answer about
seven or eight times now among people

01:44:09.044 --> 01:44:14.764
who certainly were not interacting with
each other over the internet, living

01:44:14.814 --> 01:44:17.229
in Hudson, Siberia, or, you know.

01:44:18.129 --> 01:44:19.519
under trees in the Kalahari.

01:44:20.239 --> 01:44:22.299
What, how, how would we know?

01:44:22.339 --> 01:44:29.859
How do you know if you're breathing
and existing in this minute cycle,

01:44:29.859 --> 01:44:31.839
this primary respiration cycle?

01:44:32.059 --> 01:44:34.319
What are the signs to
look out for in yourself?

01:44:34.629 --> 01:44:35.959
What are the signs to look out for?

01:44:37.109 --> 01:44:38.439
Shae Stewart: It's always there.

01:44:38.489 --> 01:44:39.409
Never stops.

01:44:40.289 --> 01:44:46.939
It can present itself, so to speak, when
you're in a more expanded state, instead

01:44:46.939 --> 01:44:49.359
of compressed, narrowed in on something.

01:44:50.329 --> 01:44:56.749
There are external signs, like when I work
with horses, there can be external signs

01:44:56.749 --> 01:45:02.859
like a sigh, a bird flying by a breeze.

01:45:05.849 --> 01:45:09.769
It's a very quiet state
and time stands still.

01:45:09.789 --> 01:45:12.029
He totally lose track of time.

01:45:13.869 --> 01:45:15.449
It's very connected.

01:45:16.889 --> 01:45:18.589
It feels palpable.

01:45:19.139 --> 01:45:20.949
So it feels like.

01:45:23.989 --> 01:45:30.329
The air around us, instead of feeling
you know, airy and it feels, it

01:45:30.329 --> 01:45:38.769
feels thick and moves almost like
a slow ocean and every cell and

01:45:39.049 --> 01:45:41.719
the body syncs up with that motion.

01:45:43.729 --> 01:45:51.619
It's the, the best place to explore
it is for me is either in the woods

01:45:51.969 --> 01:45:55.419
where you're surrounded by trees.

01:45:57.799 --> 01:46:00.479
Or in the ocean, you know, out in nature.

01:46:01.319 --> 01:46:02.019
Rupert Isaacson: It's not really...

01:46:02.449 --> 01:46:03.899
Do you know you're entering it?

01:46:04.409 --> 01:46:06.139
It just happened to me
while you were talking.

01:46:06.159 --> 01:46:08.559
You know, sometimes you do
one of those involuntary...

01:46:09.519 --> 01:46:10.029
Mm hmm.

01:46:10.029 --> 01:46:10.689
2 3 phase.

01:46:11.779 --> 01:46:12.279
Breath and...

01:46:13.509 --> 01:46:15.829
And you didn't do it because
you were looking to do it.

01:46:15.829 --> 01:46:17.549
It just kind of happened as a reflex.

01:46:18.574 --> 01:46:26.164
It's that release and you feel in
that good place, that's a return

01:46:26.164 --> 01:46:30.034
into that primary respiration
thing, a more agitated state.

01:46:34.884 --> 01:46:39.124
So it would seem to me then that what
you're talking about, we started with

01:46:39.124 --> 01:46:41.154
the wellbeing of horses and therapy.

01:46:41.864 --> 01:46:45.544
Well, but of course, you know, this is
what we're looking for if we're in the

01:46:45.544 --> 01:46:52.384
therapy world in our clients, of course,
and of course, if we're, we're the ones

01:46:52.394 --> 01:46:57.484
responsible for the well being of the
horses ultimately, and if we're also

01:46:58.314 --> 01:47:06.574
responsible for as much of the well being
of the human as it comes under our care.

01:47:06.834 --> 01:47:10.854
Hands are under our care as is possible
in that time that we have them.

01:47:11.354 --> 01:47:15.884
It would seem that, again, the
horse can't transmit that well

01:47:15.884 --> 01:47:17.054
being if they don't have it.

01:47:17.724 --> 01:47:21.034
And we can't transmit that well
being very well if we don't have it.

01:47:21.894 --> 01:47:25.434
So it seems to me that what you're
talking about with the cranial sacral

01:47:25.434 --> 01:47:35.614
might be three fold useful for the
horse, for the client, and of course

01:47:35.614 --> 01:47:38.464
for us who are connecting those two.

01:47:39.599 --> 01:47:41.319
And what's going on.

01:47:41.665 --> 01:47:44.455
If someone is, is listening to
this podcast and says, well,

01:47:44.455 --> 01:47:45.595
okay, that will make sense to me.

01:47:45.655 --> 01:47:45.985
Great.

01:47:46.115 --> 01:47:47.045
What's my next step?

01:47:47.050 --> 01:47:50.885
How do I, I've got a, I'm, I'm a,
I'm running a stable, I'm busy.

01:47:51.095 --> 01:47:54.665
This is yet another thing
I now have to think about.

01:47:54.785 --> 01:47:57.335
I'm not gonna get stressed
about de-stressing.

01:47:57.875 --> 01:47:58.295
Yeah.

01:47:58.535 --> 01:48:02.305
What is the least stressful way
that someone could go about.

01:48:03.230 --> 01:48:08.730
Engaging with this equine craniosacral
work and indeed with the crossover

01:48:08.730 --> 01:48:15.030
to the human that could cause the
least disruption to a busy week.

01:48:15.050 --> 01:48:18.330
Like, what would you
suggest people start to do?

01:48:20.050 --> 01:48:25.180
Shae Stewart: You mean like in their
own daily life or finding a cranial

01:48:25.190 --> 01:48:27.180
practitioner to come in and help?

01:48:27.800 --> 01:48:30.010
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, I mean
both I should imagine because

01:48:30.010 --> 01:48:31.340
one predicates the other, no?

01:48:32.530 --> 01:48:33.010
Shae Stewart: Yes.

01:48:33.640 --> 01:48:37.870
I would, I would say look for
a craniosacral practitioner.

01:48:38.910 --> 01:48:46.540
You could even Google a human practitioner
and see if they work on horses.

01:48:47.560 --> 01:48:53.760
And I would even go a little further
and say look for a biodynamic

01:48:54.370 --> 01:48:56.060
craniosacral practitioner.

01:48:56.400 --> 01:48:56.560
A

01:48:56.560 --> 01:48:59.050
Rupert Isaacson: biodynamic craniosacral

01:49:05.290 --> 01:49:06.020
practitioner.

01:49:08.390 --> 01:49:09.290
Okay, so.

01:49:09.690 --> 01:49:14.600
What we need to do is go online when
you're, not while you're driving your

01:49:14.600 --> 01:49:19.730
car, listening to this podcast, but
when you've parked your car, go online

01:49:19.770 --> 01:49:26.420
and look for a biodynamic craniosacral
practitioner somewhere in your hood.

01:49:27.650 --> 01:49:27.910
Yes.

01:49:29.730 --> 01:49:30.450
Are there a lot of them?

01:49:31.625 --> 01:49:32.055
Are they easy

01:49:32.055 --> 01:49:32.515
Shae Stewart: to find?

01:49:33.725 --> 01:49:38.265
They're probably easier to
find in Europe than the U.

01:49:38.265 --> 01:49:44.515
S., but there is a school, a biodynamic
craniosacral school in the U.

01:49:44.515 --> 01:49:47.765
S., so they're becoming more available.

01:49:48.565 --> 01:49:49.555
Where is that school?

01:49:50.455 --> 01:49:51.445
They're all over.

01:49:51.595 --> 01:49:54.395
It's called, of course, I can't
remember what it's called, my

01:49:54.745 --> 01:49:56.675
human teacher teaches for them.

01:49:58.955 --> 01:49:59.375
I can't remember.

01:49:59.375 --> 01:50:00.625
It's like biodynamic.

01:50:00.625 --> 01:50:02.715
Can we look it up quickly?

01:50:03.305 --> 01:50:05.155
Craniosacral of North America.

01:50:06.255 --> 01:50:07.645
There's one in the UK.

01:50:07.675 --> 01:50:09.875
Michael Kern has one in the UK.

01:50:10.455 --> 01:50:11.135
Rupert Isaacson: Michael Kern.

01:50:11.135 --> 01:50:12.835
Is that K E R N?

01:50:12.845 --> 01:50:13.545
K E R N.

01:50:18.815 --> 01:50:20.615
Shae Stewart: There's all kinds of people.

01:50:20.725 --> 01:50:24.395
There's actually going to be
a Breath of Life conference.

01:50:25.735 --> 01:50:27.905
And Colorado in September,

01:50:28.435 --> 01:50:31.615
Rupert Isaacson: Breath of Life
Conference, Colorado, September.

01:50:31.615 --> 01:50:32.635
I'm writing that down.

01:50:33.275 --> 01:50:34.085
We're in Colorado.

01:50:34.905 --> 01:50:36.275
Shae Stewart: It's in Estes Park.

01:50:36.365 --> 01:50:36.855
Okay.

01:50:37.895 --> 01:50:45.525
My friend and teacher has a, or had,
but it's still out there, a podcast

01:50:46.545 --> 01:50:48.605
called the Craniosacral Podcast.

01:50:49.175 --> 01:50:49.635
Okay.

01:50:50.305 --> 01:50:53.995
And he interviews all the
leaders in the industry.

01:50:54.935 --> 01:50:58.005
And you can learn a lot about it.

01:50:58.550 --> 01:51:00.310
By going on his podcast.

01:51:01.790 --> 01:51:02.350
There are a couple.

01:51:02.850 --> 01:51:03.520
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, go ahead.

01:51:03.520 --> 01:51:04.700
Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

01:51:05.890 --> 01:51:09.030
Shae Stewart: His name is Ryan Holford
and it's called the Craniosacral Podcast.

01:51:11.950 --> 01:51:15.440
Rupert Isaacson: The Craniosacral Podcast.

01:51:17.720 --> 01:51:22.260
And I've, okay, I found your Breath
of Life conference and this is the

01:51:22.290 --> 01:51:28.090
Biodynamic Craniosacral Therapy
Association of North America.

01:51:29.090 --> 01:51:29.430
Yes.

01:51:29.830 --> 01:51:30.260
Okay.

01:51:30.940 --> 01:51:33.750
And then you say, is it
Michael Kern, K E R N, in

01:51:33.750 --> 01:51:34.050
Shae Stewart: the UK?

01:51:34.050 --> 01:51:34.870
K E R N.

01:51:34.880 --> 01:51:36.760
He has a school in the UK.

01:51:37.240 --> 01:51:37.740
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:51:38.440 --> 01:51:42.420
And then I suppose if we type that in
for other countries, we might find it.

01:51:43.110 --> 01:51:43.440
Yeah,

01:51:43.440 --> 01:51:47.870
Shae Stewart: if you type in
biodynamic craniosacral, you'll find.

01:51:48.890 --> 01:51:54.500
Either through the association, there'll
be a list of people, or it'll pop up.

01:51:55.100 --> 01:51:58.580
Rupert Isaacson: And if this person,
if one found this, this let's say I'm

01:51:58.580 --> 01:52:02.550
sitting here in Wiesbaden in Germany
and let's say I found, I will of course

01:52:02.800 --> 01:52:06.750
quickly go Google someone after this
podcast is done and probably have

01:52:06.750 --> 01:52:09.060
them come out to My Horses and Me.

01:52:09.865 --> 01:52:11.485
And then my clients

01:52:12.105 --> 01:52:16.125
is somebody, do the people who
are doing it on horses need a

01:52:16.125 --> 01:52:19.375
special horse training or is it
sort of ubiquitous across mammals?

01:52:20.965 --> 01:52:22.745
Shae Stewart: It's
ubiquitous across mammals.

01:52:23.025 --> 01:52:26.515
I've done, cause I, most
of my training is human.

01:52:27.245 --> 01:52:32.805
There aren't a lot of equine trainers and
there's specifically, I mean, there may

01:52:32.805 --> 01:52:37.345
be a couple of us focus on biodynamics.

01:52:38.170 --> 01:52:44.250
It's, it's a little bit more of
a deeper part of craniosacral,

01:52:47.950 --> 01:52:56.010
but you can learn it on humans and
just think about the orientation of the

01:52:56.010 --> 01:52:59.940
bones is different for the different.

01:53:00.540 --> 01:53:05.540
I've worked on zoo animals deer chickens.

01:53:06.270 --> 01:53:13.260
I've worked in all kinds of
animals, dogs, cats, goats, cows.

01:53:15.795 --> 01:53:17.225
Rupert Isaacson: You have
a very chilled out husband.

01:53:19.445 --> 01:53:21.785
Shae Stewart: He's
pretty, he's pretty calm.

01:53:21.795 --> 01:53:27.135
He's got more, he's, he gets more,
has more nervous energy than I do,

01:53:27.575 --> 01:53:29.745
but I can calm them down pretty quick.

01:53:30.505 --> 01:53:33.985
Rupert Isaacson: So he's got it on tap.

01:53:34.655 --> 01:53:37.215
We just, you just adjust
his, his frontal lobe.

01:53:38.305 --> 01:53:42.235
Shae Stewart: I just start talking
slower and I could just see him kind of

01:53:45.045 --> 01:53:48.605
Rupert Isaacson: You have a vision of him
sitting in a cafe with a beer in his hand.

01:53:48.825 --> 01:53:49.145
Yeah.

01:53:49.925 --> 01:53:52.645
Under the sunlight of
vine leaves or something.

01:53:52.935 --> 01:53:53.395
There he is.

01:53:53.435 --> 01:53:53.655
Yeah.

01:53:54.985 --> 01:53:55.545
Great.

01:53:56.515 --> 01:54:01.515
If people want to contact you
obviously you have a lot of insights

01:54:01.515 --> 01:54:05.095
into this, particularly with
horses and, you know, in our world.

01:54:05.215 --> 01:54:08.565
The set equine assisted world, we're
always looking for that win, win,

01:54:08.565 --> 01:54:10.935
win, something that serves the horse,
something that serves the client,

01:54:10.935 --> 01:54:12.705
something that serves the practitioner.

01:54:12.735 --> 01:54:13.995
'cause there's also a lot of burnout.

01:54:14.635 --> 01:54:18.320
It's, it's, it's it's not just the horses
that, you know, get broken, it's, it's

01:54:18.320 --> 01:54:19.820
also the people working in the field.

01:54:20.320 --> 01:54:22.785
How do people find you and contact you?

01:54:22.790 --> 01:54:23.085
She,

01:54:24.495 --> 01:54:25.755
Shae Stewart: I have a website.

01:54:25.965 --> 01:54:28.875
It's equine balance.net.

01:54:30.165 --> 01:54:33.715
Rupert Isaacson: Equine
balance, all one word?

01:54:34.395 --> 01:54:34.905
Mm-hmm.

01:54:35.145 --> 01:54:36.345
dot net.

01:54:36.385 --> 01:54:36.675
Okay.

01:54:39.425 --> 01:54:48.495
Shae Stewart: And I do have a Facebook
business page, which is the same along

01:54:48.495 --> 01:54:59.675
with my name and I try to stay active on
that and write up thoughts and things that

01:54:59.675 --> 01:55:04.385
people can think about when they're around
their horses or just in life in general.

01:55:05.475 --> 01:55:08.675
And that's equine balance by Shea Stewart.

01:55:11.325 --> 01:55:13.385
Rupert Isaacson: This is
on Facebook equine balance.

01:55:14.860 --> 01:55:17.930
By Shea, S H E A.

01:55:19.840 --> 01:55:28.790
Stuart with a W, Stuart, like the
Scottish royal family who were the

01:55:29.200 --> 01:55:34.170
Catholic branch of the English royal
family of the same name in the 17th

01:55:34.200 --> 01:55:40.320
century, who then launched the Catholic
rebellions in the 17th and 18th century

01:55:40.630 --> 01:55:44.910
against the British crown, who had
turned Protestant at that point, and

01:55:45.090 --> 01:55:53.375
caused the centralization of Government
in England to then regulate the British

01:55:53.375 --> 01:55:56.595
Empire it was the Stuarts who kicked out.

01:55:56.635 --> 01:55:57.085
Oh, really?

01:55:57.645 --> 01:55:57.965
Yeah.

01:55:58.175 --> 01:56:01.415
The, and that was the age of
enlightenment in in England.

01:56:01.425 --> 01:56:06.575
So the, the Stuart dynasty came in after
the Tudors the French Scottish, that

01:56:06.585 --> 01:56:11.105
was James the first after Elizabeth
the first, who was a bit paranoid.

01:56:12.020 --> 01:56:15.890
anti witches and he was the guy who sent,
he was the guy who sent the, and didn't

01:56:15.890 --> 01:56:20.030
like religious extremists, he sent the
first religious extremists out on the May,

01:56:20.110 --> 01:56:24.950
a vote called the May Flower after putting
them in a prison called the Clink Jail

01:56:25.320 --> 01:56:28.060
in the South Bank in England, and they
thought maybe we should get these guys out

01:56:28.110 --> 01:56:32.050
of England and they can go do their stuff
to each other and the Native Americans,

01:56:32.060 --> 01:56:34.620
so pack them off to the New World.

01:56:35.090 --> 01:56:38.000
And so now they're considered to be
very blue blooded in America, but

01:56:38.000 --> 01:56:40.200
actually they were political agitators.

01:56:41.675 --> 01:56:47.615
In in England, and then he was the
Protestant line, and that was why

01:56:47.615 --> 01:56:51.775
he was allowed to come onto the
throne in England because the father

01:56:51.805 --> 01:56:56.395
of his predecessor, Elizabeth the
first had turned English, England.

01:56:57.055 --> 01:57:00.575
Protestant so that he could divorce
Catherine of Aragon and try and get a son

01:57:00.575 --> 01:57:03.685
with Anne Boleyn, which didn't work, by
the way, so we cut Anne Boleyn's head off.

01:57:04.165 --> 01:57:08.785
And then, as they did back then, as
they did back then, repeatedly and

01:57:08.785 --> 01:57:12.675
then the, he died with no male issue.

01:57:13.595 --> 01:57:15.955
So that created a problem.

01:57:16.745 --> 01:57:18.915
And there were two branches
of the Stuart line.

01:57:19.935 --> 01:57:20.525
Sorry, I'm wrong.

01:57:20.535 --> 01:57:24.395
He did die with male issue and he, and
his, his son was Charles the first, but

01:57:24.395 --> 01:57:29.595
Charles the first was a secret Catholic
and fell foul of parliament and that

01:57:29.605 --> 01:57:31.205
then the English civil war happened.

01:57:31.940 --> 01:57:34.050
These are the Stuarts and
they cut his head off.

01:57:34.050 --> 01:57:37.440
We were the first country in
Europe to cut the King's head off.

01:57:38.040 --> 01:57:40.210
And then we realized that
that didn't do us any good.

01:57:40.210 --> 01:57:41.880
We just got a different
bunch of gangsters in.

01:57:42.420 --> 01:57:47.060
So after they had dealt with Oliver
Cromwell and his gangsters under a

01:57:47.060 --> 01:57:51.640
Republic briefly, we brought back the
monarchy under the Stuarts, which was

01:57:51.640 --> 01:57:55.320
Charles II, the Merry Monarch, who was
the great patron of the arts and sciences

01:57:55.320 --> 01:57:59.870
and founded a little thing called the
Hudson Bay Company and a little thing

01:57:59.870 --> 01:58:04.900
called the East India Company but was
also a secret Catholic and a bon vivant,

01:58:05.520 --> 01:58:07.800
and he left no legitimate male issue.

01:58:08.370 --> 01:58:14.630
So then there were wars, civil wars
between the French Scottish Stuarts

01:58:14.930 --> 01:58:18.740
and the distant cousins of the
Stuarts that the aldermen of the

01:58:18.740 --> 01:58:22.310
City of London would bring in to
sit on the throne at any one time.

01:58:22.310 --> 01:58:27.680
William of Orange And people like that,
and all of them failed to have sons,

01:58:28.190 --> 01:58:32.490
so eventually they had to bring in
some German cousins called the House

01:58:32.490 --> 01:58:35.470
of Hanover, and that's the Georgian
period, those are the Georgias.

01:58:35.920 --> 01:58:40.140
And of course the Stuart line,
financed by France, who was always

01:58:40.140 --> 01:58:43.390
going to agitate a little bit to make
life difficult for England, would

01:58:43.390 --> 01:58:45.680
occasionally field once a generation.

01:58:47.800 --> 01:58:51.240
a descendant of the original royal line
to have a go at the English throne.

01:58:51.920 --> 01:58:56.790
And the last one happened in 1745
under Bonnie Prince Charlie, Charles

01:58:56.800 --> 01:59:00.880
Stewart, Charles Edward Stewart, who
rallied the Scottish clans and they

01:59:00.880 --> 01:59:02.690
got within a hundred miles of London.

01:59:03.250 --> 01:59:05.860
And that's when the British
government said no more.

01:59:06.170 --> 01:59:08.620
And they smashed the Scottish
clans, cut down all the forests

01:59:08.620 --> 01:59:12.640
in the Highlands, sent all the
inhabitants out to the Americas.

01:59:12.650 --> 01:59:16.080
That's why the Appalachian
hillbillies have muck and

01:59:16.080 --> 01:59:17.390
then, and Mack in their names.

01:59:18.105 --> 01:59:20.025
And versus indentured laborers.

01:59:20.025 --> 01:59:23.635
And then they went and ran hogs in
the, in the, in the appellations.

01:59:24.230 --> 01:59:26.640
And if they were lucky, that's
what happened to them, they

01:59:26.640 --> 01:59:27.620
weren't hanged or unaccorded.

01:59:28.360 --> 01:59:31.990
And they created the patchwork countryside
that we see today in the British

01:59:32.390 --> 01:59:38.630
countryside of hedgerows to create a
landowning, taxpaying middle class that

01:59:38.630 --> 01:59:42.800
was loyal to the crown that, unlike those
pesky aristocrats with private armies

01:59:43.320 --> 01:59:46.670
that would occasionally get drunk and
decide to have a crack at the crown.

01:59:47.250 --> 01:59:49.960
And so there you are, Shea
Stewart, that's your history.

01:59:51.760 --> 01:59:54.120
By the Cherokees, who of course met.

01:59:54.755 --> 01:59:59.085
Well, because they, of course, met those
Scots Irish emigres who were thrown

01:59:59.085 --> 02:00:02.405
out there by the British when they were
tramping up and down the Appalachians

02:00:02.415 --> 02:00:05.315
and they encountered people like the
Cherokees and the Lumbees and the

02:00:05.315 --> 02:00:07.955
Iroquois and intermarried with them.

02:00:08.269 --> 02:00:09.119
Shae Stewart: You're amazing.

02:00:09.129 --> 02:00:10.049
It's like walking

02:00:10.059 --> 02:00:10.889
Rupert Isaacson: history book.

02:00:11.689 --> 02:00:12.679
It's just my shtick.

02:00:12.989 --> 02:00:13.829
I like history.

02:00:14.739 --> 02:00:15.669
There's many things I don't know.

02:00:15.969 --> 02:00:18.119
I just happen to know that small thing.

02:00:19.079 --> 02:00:20.819
It's my cerebral spinal fluid at work.

02:00:22.719 --> 02:00:24.439
Shae Stewart: It must
have a really good flow.

02:00:26.039 --> 02:00:27.869
Rupert Isaacson: Well, I guess like
anyone, when it's interested in

02:00:27.869 --> 02:00:29.489
something, it sort of perks up a bit.

02:00:30.099 --> 02:00:30.529
Yeah.

02:00:31.319 --> 02:00:32.059
Including...

02:00:34.449 --> 02:00:38.429
I find the whole subject of cerebral
spinal fluid fascinating, and the

02:00:38.439 --> 02:00:46.209
further I go into it, the more I do see
that does indeed seem that the mystic

02:00:46.609 --> 02:00:50.679
core of all religions in the world
seem to deal with Thank you very much.

02:00:51.579 --> 02:00:55.919
Allegories around this process of cerebral
spinal fluid and the middle ventricle

02:00:55.919 --> 02:00:59.735
of the brain and the pineal gland and
the interplay between the pineal and the

02:00:59.735 --> 02:01:02.199
pituitary gland and so on and so forth.

02:01:02.199 --> 02:01:06.999
And I really would encourage listeners
to dive down that rabbit hole

02:01:07.489 --> 02:01:11.209
because it informs daily life in a
really interesting way because daily

02:01:11.209 --> 02:01:12.699
life is the rhythms of one's body.

02:01:12.709 --> 02:01:14.439
I mean, what else can it be really?

02:01:14.899 --> 02:01:16.979
And therefore the rhythm
of our horses bodies.

02:01:17.709 --> 02:01:21.209
And it makes it all a bit more
interesting than just saying

02:01:21.349 --> 02:01:22.989
he's got stiffness in the stifle.

02:01:25.124 --> 02:01:25.544
Yes.

02:01:25.874 --> 02:01:31.214
I love your approach of saying, well, yes,
he does have a stiffness in the siphon.

02:01:31.774 --> 02:01:37.474
And yes, we can look at things that
will ameliorate that on a, on a

02:01:37.474 --> 02:01:43.314
muscular and even fascial viewpoint.

02:01:43.314 --> 02:01:47.174
But I love the idea that you have, that
you're talking about of going deeper than

02:01:47.174 --> 02:01:52.334
that and saying, ah, but if those joints
and those fascia themselves are being

02:01:52.344 --> 02:01:57.134
governed by a flow of effectively liquid.

02:01:57.794 --> 02:02:00.794
Within the body, which we're all composed
of, which we know we're composed of.

02:02:00.804 --> 02:02:01.914
We know we're all mostly water.

02:02:02.524 --> 02:02:05.384
And then if we can get that flow,
right, then a lot of those things

02:02:05.384 --> 02:02:06.774
are going to fix themselves.

02:02:07.554 --> 02:02:11.624
I mean, that does make sense
because if the, if, if the fluids

02:02:11.654 --> 02:02:16.104
around my stiff leg from that.

02:02:16.844 --> 02:02:23.514
Wrench that it got back in 2018 are
held in a liquid that is not blocked,

02:02:24.454 --> 02:02:26.684
then it's going to ease that stiffness.

02:02:26.684 --> 02:02:27.874
And that does make sense to me.

02:02:27.874 --> 02:02:29.244
It makes absolute sense to me.

02:02:29.714 --> 02:02:31.044
But I've seen it at work.

02:02:31.304 --> 02:02:36.034
I've seen good cerebral craniosacral
people at work, and that's why I was.

02:02:37.194 --> 02:02:38.604
Wanting to get you on here.

02:02:38.704 --> 02:02:44.934
Because I think with with we horse people,
we we've been looking at things from a

02:02:44.934 --> 02:02:53.134
sort of anatomical veterinary viewpoint
for a long time, which while useful

02:02:53.134 --> 02:02:55.244
and helpful is not the whole picture.

02:02:56.744 --> 02:03:00.604
And there are other other forces at work.

02:03:00.614 --> 02:03:03.324
And what's interesting too is,
as you say, that the people that

02:03:03.324 --> 02:03:05.324
came up with this were doctors.

02:03:06.139 --> 02:03:11.479
And a lot of the best vets I know
look very closely at the stuff that

02:03:11.479 --> 02:03:17.519
you're talking about because with their
knowledge of anatomy and physiology,

02:03:19.399 --> 02:03:21.229
they're not coming at it with prejudice.

02:03:22.109 --> 02:03:25.449
They're coming at it from
a practical viewpoint.

02:03:25.449 --> 02:03:27.999
So if people go to equinebalance.

02:03:28.029 --> 02:03:34.614
net Or they go on Facebook and they see
equine balance by Shea Stewart, not the

02:03:34.614 --> 02:03:37.454
Shea Stewart that challenged the British
crown, but the Shea Stewart that's

02:03:37.684 --> 02:03:38.844
going to make your horse feel better.

02:03:39.404 --> 02:03:42.334
So that your horse will then be able
to cavalry charge the British better

02:03:42.894 --> 02:03:44.274
and knock those red coats over.

02:03:45.084 --> 02:03:51.034
What would be, we've now gone
about the length of a podcast.

02:03:51.474 --> 02:03:55.384
There are more things I would like
to ask you, particularly about the

02:03:56.974 --> 02:03:58.674
psychic spiritual side of it all.

02:03:59.364 --> 02:04:05.884
And I'm sure that a lot of the listeners
will have questions, I'm going to

02:04:05.884 --> 02:04:09.894
encourage those listeners and by all
means send your questions direct to Shay

02:04:09.894 --> 02:04:11.234
because you'll find her on that website.

02:04:11.264 --> 02:04:15.654
But if you also direct questions
to me, then I can collect those

02:04:15.674 --> 02:04:17.634
questions, and we can have her back on.

02:04:19.064 --> 02:04:19.334
Would you?

02:04:19.894 --> 02:04:24.584
Shae Stewart: There, there are so much
more we could talk about how horses

02:04:26.164 --> 02:04:29.734
hold human trauma or human issues.

02:04:32.599 --> 02:04:33.649
Yeah, there's so much more

02:04:33.849 --> 02:04:37.159
Rupert Isaacson: we definitely we
definitely have to have that one that

02:04:37.159 --> 02:04:39.629
sounds like two hours right there Yes.

02:04:40.479 --> 02:04:42.149
All right, then.

02:04:42.179 --> 02:04:43.339
I'm officially asking you.

02:04:43.339 --> 02:04:45.139
Would you please come back and talk about?

02:04:45.989 --> 02:04:46.299
Okay,

02:04:46.899 --> 02:04:50.069
Shae Stewart: I could talk about
this stuff all day every day.

02:04:50.099 --> 02:04:53.459
And so I'm always happy when
there's someone interested

02:04:53.989 --> 02:04:56.989
Rupert Isaacson: How do
horses hold human trauma?

02:04:58.744 --> 02:05:00.854
And what can we do about it?

02:05:03.944 --> 02:05:05.484
Okay, we need to know.

02:05:08.024 --> 02:05:11.534
In that case, would you, would
you consent to come on sometime

02:05:11.534 --> 02:05:12.664
again in the next three months?

02:05:12.704 --> 02:05:14.434
Because I'm now Absolutely.

02:05:15.094 --> 02:05:15.354
Yeah.

02:05:16.004 --> 02:05:16.294
Yeah.

02:05:17.584 --> 02:05:19.074
Alright, so let's just
ask the listeners quickly.

02:05:19.244 --> 02:05:23.124
Hey listeners, do you want to
learn how horses hold human trauma?

02:05:24.009 --> 02:05:25.089
What we can do about it.

02:05:25.709 --> 02:05:26.369
Whoa.

02:05:26.369 --> 02:05:27.539
That was like deafening.

02:05:28.349 --> 02:05:28.799
Yeah, I've

02:05:29.529 --> 02:05:30.119
Shae Stewart: heard that.

02:05:31.039 --> 02:05:31.579
Yeah.

02:05:33.089 --> 02:05:38.209
We could talk about how things are
held in other, you know, I, I, I can

02:05:38.329 --> 02:05:43.169
talk about experiences I've had with
receiving craniosacral and things

02:05:43.174 --> 02:05:44.489
I went in that I thought I was.

02:05:45.099 --> 02:05:48.439
Helping, and it ended up being from
something completely different.

02:05:50.899 --> 02:05:58.179
We can talk about psychic, spiritual
stuff, visions of, of all kinds of

02:05:58.179 --> 02:06:02.759
stuff that there's all kinds of stories

02:06:02.759 --> 02:06:03.379
Rupert Isaacson: around that.

02:06:04.679 --> 02:06:06.719
Okay, we'll go firmly into the woo.

02:06:07.389 --> 02:06:07.879
Okay.

02:06:08.099 --> 02:06:09.109
Yeah, definitely.

02:06:09.349 --> 02:06:09.769
All right.

02:06:09.779 --> 02:06:10.559
It's official.

02:06:10.599 --> 02:06:12.529
I'd like to do it before
Christmas if possible.

02:06:12.899 --> 02:06:13.369
Can we?

02:06:13.749 --> 02:06:14.259
Yeah, you're busy.

02:06:14.959 --> 02:06:18.279
Shae Stewart: Yeah, I can
always find time somewhere.

02:06:18.379 --> 02:06:19.199
So yes.

02:06:19.789 --> 02:06:20.209
Rupert Isaacson: Grand.

02:06:21.479 --> 02:06:21.879
All right.

02:06:21.879 --> 02:06:23.039
Well, I shall look forward to it.

02:06:23.289 --> 02:06:25.809
Shay, thank you so much for this.

02:06:25.939 --> 02:06:27.039
Massively enlightening.

02:06:27.039 --> 02:06:29.839
I'm going to go and consider my horses.

02:06:30.739 --> 02:06:31.729
Cranial sacral fluid.

02:06:32.404 --> 02:06:35.284
And I'm going to look for a practitioner
and I'm going to see if I can coax

02:06:35.284 --> 02:06:39.014
you out to help me a little bit.

02:06:39.544 --> 02:06:41.454
Cause I know you come back and
forth from Europe a little bit.

02:06:42.324 --> 02:06:42.854
I'm grateful.

02:06:42.864 --> 02:06:44.104
Thank you very much for coming on.

02:06:44.804 --> 02:06:45.324
I'm, I'm

02:06:45.324 --> 02:06:45.744
Shae Stewart: grateful.

02:06:45.744 --> 02:06:50.624
This was such a joy and such a
treat and such an honor as well.

02:06:50.914 --> 02:06:56.274
So I really appreciate your
interest in asking me and this.

02:06:57.634 --> 02:06:58.184
Thank you.

02:06:58.794 --> 02:06:59.494
Rupert Isaacson: This was great.

02:06:59.824 --> 02:07:01.744
I'm sure we all feel honored too.

02:07:02.264 --> 02:07:07.114
So round two will be within about
probably 10 weeks or so chaps.

02:07:07.574 --> 02:07:08.874
So, buckle up.

02:07:09.134 --> 02:07:14.644
We'll go into how horses hold
human trauma because how can they

02:07:19.064 --> 02:07:19.124
not?

02:07:19.124 --> 02:07:22.094
How can they not know
what we can do about it?

02:07:22.464 --> 02:07:24.864
Because that's our Yeah.

02:07:25.134 --> 02:07:27.584
The better my horses feel, the
better they can help others.

02:07:29.129 --> 02:07:29.509
Yes.

02:07:30.539 --> 02:07:33.609
And to do that in a way without guilt
and shame, I mean, that, that, that's

02:07:33.619 --> 02:07:38.649
something that I found, you know,
off putting sometimes when talking to

02:07:38.659 --> 02:07:43.749
people that are or claim to be animal
communicators, where, where I'm skeptical

02:07:44.259 --> 02:07:48.159
of the human, not, not of the fact that
people can communicate with animals.

02:07:48.159 --> 02:07:51.149
I think that people absolutely
can, but I'm not sure that

02:07:51.149 --> 02:07:52.489
everyone who says they can can.

02:07:52.729 --> 02:07:56.699
And the, the, the people who
say they can, and there's that,

02:07:56.949 --> 02:07:58.579
there's that slight note of.

02:07:59.189 --> 02:08:00.239
And it's because you suck.

02:08:01.509 --> 02:08:05.329
Smacks of manipulation to me
because it's one of those things

02:08:05.339 --> 02:08:06.969
that it's, it's intangible.

02:08:06.969 --> 02:08:07.639
You can't prove it.

02:08:07.649 --> 02:08:13.359
You can't, you know, so you, what one
could use that in a manipulative way.

02:08:13.399 --> 02:08:18.319
If I wasn't coming from a pure place
that said, I've also seen shamans in the

02:08:18.319 --> 02:08:19.809
Kalahari turn themselves into leopards.

02:08:20.199 --> 02:08:21.029
We can talk about that.

02:08:21.339 --> 02:08:24.859
You know, and what, what that,
so it's not that it can't happen.

02:08:25.909 --> 02:08:31.889
But what they would say the animal is
saying is usually got nothing to do

02:08:31.889 --> 02:08:34.259
with something a human is doing wrong.

02:08:34.309 --> 02:08:35.969
You know, it's, it's a
bigger picture than that.

02:08:36.089 --> 02:08:36.289
Yeah.

02:08:36.779 --> 02:08:37.129
Yeah,

02:08:37.869 --> 02:08:39.849
Shae Stewart: it is a much bigger picture.

02:08:39.889 --> 02:08:46.839
And 1 thing everyone can could go
out and do today is take some time,

02:08:47.319 --> 02:08:52.369
get out of your thinking brain, get
into your heart space and put your

02:08:52.369 --> 02:08:56.729
hand on your heart on your horse
and just expand your heart space.

02:08:57.859 --> 02:08:58.939
And watch and see what

02:08:58.939 --> 02:08:59.349
Rupert Isaacson: happens.

02:09:03.904 --> 02:09:04.994
I'm going to do that tomorrow.

02:09:08.594 --> 02:09:09.824
Anywhere on the horse is good?

02:09:10.644 --> 02:09:12.134
Anywhere they accept the touch?

02:09:12.524 --> 02:09:12.784
Yep,

02:09:12.824 --> 02:09:14.274
Shae Stewart: wherever
they're comfortable.

02:09:16.494 --> 02:09:16.844
Okay.

02:09:16.854 --> 02:09:21.474
I tend to, I, I like in the back on
their pelvis, you can touch them there.

02:09:24.074 --> 02:09:27.874
That way you're not zeroed
in too much on their head.

02:09:28.084 --> 02:09:28.234
Hmm.

02:09:30.229 --> 02:09:34.589
We, we narrow our focus too much on
things and that can, that can feel like

02:09:34.599 --> 02:09:35.159
Rupert Isaacson: pressure.

02:09:35.609 --> 02:09:36.049
Well, sure.

02:09:36.049 --> 02:09:36.929
It's what predators do.

02:09:36.999 --> 02:09:39.179
It's what we do before we
make our pounce and kill.

02:09:39.339 --> 02:09:39.539
Yeah.

02:09:39.829 --> 02:09:40.099
Shae Stewart: Yeah.

02:09:41.159 --> 02:09:47.289
I feel it when I get craniosacral by
someone who doesn't know how to read the

02:09:47.289 --> 02:09:53.709
system or expand out, I can leave with
a headache if they're too focused in on

02:09:53.709 --> 02:09:55.649
the bone that they have their hand on.

02:09:55.849 --> 02:09:56.289
Okay.

02:09:56.739 --> 02:09:57.489
I don't like it.

02:09:57.519 --> 02:09:58.959
It's too much pressure.

02:09:59.364 --> 02:10:01.504
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, do you tell them?

02:10:01.564 --> 02:10:02.424
Do you communicate that?

02:10:04.124 --> 02:10:05.044
Shae Stewart: It depends.

02:10:05.144 --> 02:10:08.204
I, I don't usually go
to those, those anymore.

02:10:08.434 --> 02:10:14.894
I don't, I kind of, the last one I went
to, I had the feeling if I said that,

02:10:14.894 --> 02:10:19.604
I don't know if she would know what
I was talking about, like, if I said,

02:10:19.614 --> 02:10:25.134
stop thinking about my sphenoid bone,
expand out to the horizon somewhere.

02:10:26.024 --> 02:10:28.384
I don't know if that would make sense.

02:10:31.474 --> 02:10:31.914
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

02:10:31.914 --> 02:10:33.044
So that's what we're going to do.

02:10:33.429 --> 02:10:38.979
Listeners, we're going to go to our
horses tomorrow, but I'll hand on in

02:10:38.979 --> 02:10:43.329
a place that's not too monkey fixated.

02:10:44.579 --> 02:10:46.039
So maybe we'll avoid the head.

02:10:47.239 --> 02:10:52.269
And as Shay says, suggests,
perhaps we'll look for the...

02:10:52.879 --> 02:10:56.359
Somewhere around the sacrum, if that
seems okay to the horse, and then

02:10:56.359 --> 02:10:57.869
we're going to expand out, right?

02:10:58.699 --> 02:10:59.159
Expand

02:10:59.159 --> 02:10:59.589
Shae Stewart: out.

02:10:59.819 --> 02:11:00.989
Don't leave.

02:11:01.079 --> 02:11:02.919
Expand out from your heart.

02:11:03.329 --> 02:11:04.489
Expand out from your...

02:11:04.489 --> 02:11:07.079
Stay connected to your
heart and expand out.

02:11:08.209 --> 02:11:09.949
You don't even have to
think about the horse.

02:11:10.529 --> 02:11:11.669
Just think about that

02:11:12.889 --> 02:11:13.299
Rupert Isaacson: space.

02:11:14.009 --> 02:11:14.409
Okay.

02:11:16.729 --> 02:11:20.589
Just expand out from the heart while
happening to have a hand on a horse.

02:11:21.159 --> 02:11:21.489
Yes.

02:11:22.289 --> 02:11:22.689
Okay.

02:11:23.699 --> 02:11:24.069
And,

02:11:24.839 --> 02:11:26.279
Shae Stewart: Tell me what happened.

02:11:27.559 --> 02:11:27.939
I will.

02:11:28.729 --> 02:11:32.969
Yeah, and anyone out there send me
a note at tell me what happened.

02:11:32.999 --> 02:11:33.839
I like to hear.

02:11:34.149 --> 02:11:34.609
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

02:11:35.949 --> 02:11:37.449
What should they send you a note on?

02:11:37.619 --> 02:11:38.839
What's the email address?

02:11:40.239 --> 02:11:40.639
Oh,

02:11:40.739 --> 02:11:46.299
Shae Stewart: Shea, S H
E A at equine balance.

02:11:46.299 --> 02:11:46.329
net.

02:11:46.769 --> 02:11:47.129
Shea equine balance.

02:11:47.129 --> 02:11:47.659
net.

02:11:50.989 --> 02:11:51.519
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

02:11:52.689 --> 02:11:57.419
Go put your hand on your horse in
not too focused a monkey intensity

02:11:57.419 --> 02:12:04.189
way, check in with the heart and then
without making it too intellectual.

02:12:05.759 --> 02:12:09.619
expand out a bit and see what happens.

02:12:10.229 --> 02:12:10.649
Yeah.

02:12:10.899 --> 02:12:11.269
Okay.

02:12:11.299 --> 02:12:13.509
And then the horse responds.

02:12:13.949 --> 02:12:14.749
The horse responds.

02:12:14.779 --> 02:12:15.159
Okay.

02:12:16.839 --> 02:12:18.439
That sounds like a good starting point.

02:12:20.249 --> 02:12:20.679
Thank you.

02:12:23.119 --> 02:12:23.759
Thank you.

02:12:24.629 --> 02:12:25.109
All right.

02:12:25.859 --> 02:12:29.329
It's, this is a very difficult
podcast to press the end button on.

02:12:29.529 --> 02:12:31.309
So let's think of it like a pause button.

02:12:31.779 --> 02:12:32.629
The next one.

02:12:33.619 --> 02:12:35.389
Because I could, I could
keep going all night.

02:12:36.169 --> 02:12:36.769
I know.

02:12:36.779 --> 02:12:37.109
Shae Stewart: I know.

02:12:37.119 --> 02:12:37.239
I

02:12:37.239 --> 02:12:37.869
Rupert Isaacson: could too.

02:12:39.299 --> 02:12:40.469
But there's a lot to think about.

02:12:40.469 --> 02:12:42.359
I'm going to go walk the dogs
now and think about this.

02:12:43.019 --> 02:12:44.569
So you give me lots to think about.

02:12:45.599 --> 02:12:46.069
Shae Stewart: Good.

02:12:46.109 --> 02:12:46.479
Yeah.

02:12:46.479 --> 02:12:47.949
And then we'll have more to talk about.

02:12:49.314 --> 02:12:50.654
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, well, all right.

02:12:50.654 --> 02:12:53.854
Well, until then, sounds good.

02:12:55.444 --> 02:12:56.384
Try and stay out of the heat.

02:12:56.414 --> 02:12:58.084
I know how hard it is over there in Texas.

02:12:58.574 --> 02:12:58.934
Shae Stewart: Yeah.

02:12:58.934 --> 02:13:00.114
I don't even want to go outside.

02:13:00.264 --> 02:13:00.424
I

02:13:00.474 --> 02:13:00.984
Rupert Isaacson: bet you don't.

02:13:02.044 --> 02:13:02.684
I used to live there.

02:13:02.794 --> 02:13:03.164
I know.

02:13:04.654 --> 02:13:05.274
All right.

02:13:05.444 --> 02:13:05.854
Yeah.

02:13:06.724 --> 02:13:08.174
Have a beautiful rest of the day.

02:13:08.284 --> 02:13:08.644
Bye.

02:13:09.364 --> 02:13:09.714
Bye.

02:13:09.992 --> 02:13:11.102
thank you for joining us.

02:13:11.132 --> 02:13:12.962
We hope you enjoyed today's podcast.

02:13:13.201 --> 02:13:18.241
Join our website, new trails
learning.com, to  check out our online

02:13:18.241 --> 02:13:23.431
courses and live workshops in Horse Boy
Method, movement Method, and Athena.

02:13:24.138 --> 02:13:28.787
These evidence-based programs have
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02:13:28.787 --> 02:13:30.797
dealing with trauma around the world.

02:13:31.124 --> 02:13:34.874
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02:13:34.874 --> 02:13:38.114
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02:13:38.412 --> 02:13:42.462
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02:13:42.462 --> 02:13:44.382
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02:13:44.919 --> 02:13:49.479
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02:13:49.809 --> 02:13:50.739
See you on the next show.

02:13:51.152 --> 02:13:53.842
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