Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello and welcome, Kathy.
I'm delighted to have you here.
Kathy: I'm delighted to be here.
Thank you so much.
I'm, I'm looking forward to chatting with you.
Anke: Me too, me too.
And people will be looking forward to listening once they know
what we're talking about today.
So before we dive in there, let people know where you're based and
so what's your business with dogs?
Kathy: Sure, sure.
So I am in Alexandria, Virginia, which is right outside of Washington, D.
C., and I am a dog trainer and a dog writer, dog author, and a foster.
So we have fostered, our family started fostering 10 years ago, um, and we
have now had, I think we're on 235.
puppies through our house.
So we take them in, we love them up, we get them ready, and we
send them out into the world.
And that is what has kind of deeply informed my outlook on what puppies
really need, um, and how we can help new owners, um, transition more
happily and joyfully into puppyhood.
Because, um, often that ends up being a pretty shocking transition, much
harder than people expect, and it really doesn't have to feel that way, so.
The, the new book is, um, Welcoming Your Puppy from Planet Dog.
And the idea is that I really want to help people understand where this
puppy's coming from and how they can meet him right there so that they
can have the fun that I have with all these puppies going through my house
with it being a happy thing instead of sort of a, what have I done moment.
Anke: Oh, I love that.
I love that so much.
It's like, I was saying before I checked out your Instagram account,
I was just drooling all over.
Like, oh my god, this woman lives in heaven with all these little puppies.
It's like little fluffballs all day long.
It is
Kathy: true.
So it is true.
So we will take in, you know, so I have two sides of, My
whole life being with puppies.
One side is the volunteer side when I have all, when we're raising the
literature and the other side is working with the clients and bringing
those client puppies here or going to their homes and working with them.
Either way, my days are filled with fluffy little puppies
and it could not be more fun.
It's just a delight.
And yeah, you can find it all on Instagram, which is fun.
Anke: I will obviously pop the link in the show notes and below
this video if you want to watch it.
So.
I mean, you know what, funny enough, what the first question that pops to my mind
is, like, how do you deal with them going?
Like, it's like, I kind of like, if I see a puppy, it's like,
I get so attached so quickly.
It's like, what's that like to let them go?
Kathy: That is, in fact, everybody's, for every real dog
owner, that's their first question when they find out that we foster.
And in fact, that was our first question too, when we pondered starting fostering
is, how in the world would we let them go?
Um, And it is a legit concern because it is hard.
And I can tell you that the first year or so, I always cried the night before,
um, because it felt like a betrayal.
You know, we had gotten them in, they were scared.
We pulled them in here.
We've gotten them okay.
Our dogs play a big role in making them feel comfortable.
I think our dogs, our dogs are amazing.
And they just translate in two seconds what might take us days or even a week.
Hey.
Anke.
It's good here.
You're safe here.
Anyway, they all get so comfortable here and yeah, you
feel terrible giving them up.
But here's what actually happens then within maybe three days.
You have started to get these pictures of this puppy, all happily
ensconced in his new family.
And you just look at their smiles, you look at his glee, and you're
like, Oh right, oh right, I forgot, I am just the link here.
This is just, and it becomes deeply, you're quite sure.
that you are supposed to just be this transition.
We are their safe landing, we're their soft landing, we get them, move them from
a world of risk into a world of safety.
And we're just the, we're just the thing in between.
And it is a delightful role to play.
And because it turns out okay.
I can still say goodbye to the puppies.
In the beginning I didn't have enough evidence.
In the beginning I didn't know if it was going to turn out okay.
I didn't know how the puppies were going to do.
But years and years and years of evidence have shown me that almost always, holy
mackerel, it turns out beautifully.
It, it, it does.
Things happen the way they're supposed to and I often am still in touch with these
puppies because many of them because I'm obnoxious on social media I am constantly
posting these puppies and so people in my zip code end up with my puppy.
So I'm not kidding you I'm walking down the street and I will see
in different neighborhoods.
I'll be like, oh look there's a puppy There's Piper.
Look, there's Lulu.
And that is very rewarding and fun.
Yep.
We have some frequent flyers too.
We have several families who at this point have gotten two fosters
from us, which is awfully fun.
Anke: Oh, I love that.
I love it.
So.
I mean, I don't know, like I've had like neighbors and things when there's
like, oh, we got a puppy and then like literally days later they were frustrated.
It was crying all the time, you know, and I'm sort of thinking, for
God's sake, don't you have any bit of patience, any bit of compassion?
So what's the, what are typical mistakes or misunderstandings or
misconceptions or, or like false expectations that people often have
and obviously don't want to do instead.
Kathy: What's the answer?
Yeah.
So that's really it.
So, so we, I often get people calling me maybe two weeks later, maybe
three, and truly they're like, okay, I think this might've been a mistake.
And they feel terrible saying it out loud, but that's truly, they're lying
awake thinking, what have I done?
My life was perfect before and now it's miserable because of
the 24 7 nature of puppies.
You know, they're peeing, they're pooping, they're chewing, they're
biting the kids, they're jumping up.
The kids were begging for the puppy, then they got the puppy, now
they're crying and saying, I hate the puppy, the puppy's biting me.
So, I'm All that stuff takes them by surprise because there's some
kind of myth about what puppyhood is supposed to be like in our life.
We all think it's supposed to be easy to have a dog and
having a puppy will be glorious.
And it can be.
But first you need to set yourself up.
So, so the thing that I tell folks, so when they call me in that misery,
I will come and I'll do a consult with them and they'll often have a little
notebook, you know, pull out their little notebook and they're ready to
write down all of my tips and tricks.
And I tell them, I do have those things.
I have approaches and techniques I'd love for you to try, but
none of them will work for you.
Because right now you're not in the right mindset.
Puppyhood is a mindset game.
And if you can get in the right headspace for it, you're
going to be able to enjoy it.
So what I tell them to get them there is, there's one thing I want
you to write in that notebook today.
And it is, this is a baby.
That I've kidnapped from another planet.
Baby kidnapped planet.
So this is, nobody wants to hear that.
Makes you feel bad.
And I tell them, I don't say this to make you feel sad, but usually when you say
that people kind of instinctively get it.
Um, these puppies have been rolling around, having a ball with their
own families, doing doggy things.
They've been chewing and digging and biting and wrestling.
They've always had a friend.
Right next to them.
They have never slept alone and no one has gotten mad at them for all
of those very natural doggy things.
One day someone plucked them out.
They didn't know what was going to happen.
The humans have been looking forward to this forever.
The puppy hasn't.
And then the humans grab him.
The humans are so excited.
Guess what?
The puppy is devastated.
Now, obviously, if you have an incredible breeder or an incredible foster, um,
situation, they have been doing everything they can to prepare the puppy for this
moment of separation, giving them a little time alone, but often that's not the case.
And this is the first time they actually are taking a breath without
all of their littermates next to them.
You bring them into your house and then what happens is the puppy
starts to Doing all the things that come naturally to dogs.
They are still biting, wrestling, digging, chewing, pooping, peeing.
And suddenly all they hear is no.
And their only family no is you.
And because it hasn't been set up right and you don't have the right
expectations, you are filling that relationship with a bunch of nos.
And that is how this puppy's starting off in this new planet on planet human.
All he hears is no.
So that's not what we want to do.
You're upset.
The puppy's upset.
Nothing good is happening.
Stress is rising in the household.
Does not have to be this way.
So, the key is to remember, Hey, baby, kidnapped, another planet.
Hmm, what does he need?
And the number one thing this baby needs is to feel safe.
This baby needs to feel safe, needs to feel like he can trust you.
And the best way for you to help him feel that way is with your setup.
You need to think through how you're going to set up your house.
So the big mistake I see people doing is giving the puppy either
too much space or too little space.
So if you give a puppy too much space, they are going all over your house.
Of course, they're going to pee and poop everywhere.
You're not even going to notice it.
You might be like, gosh, he's doing so well.
I don't think he's peed at all inside.
And I go into those consults and I'm like, uh oh, Spaghetti O,
let's check behind the couch here.
Um, so, uh, so too much space is bad and too much space also,
it allows for a lot of mistakes.
because your kids are there, your precious items there, all your shoes are there.
So all those no's are waiting in every single corner for the puppy to bump
into so that then you're like, Hey, no.
And then once again, you're interfering with your relationship there.
So too much space is bad.
So the opposite though is too little space.
Sometimes people, but often before they get the puppy, it feels really
terrific to set up a tiny little pen and be like, that's where the puppy is.
Puppy will be, and you kind of feel great because you're like, hey, our life is
going to go on as normal, but then the puppy will be in the pen and you put
all the toys in the pen and the crate in the pen and it all feels doable.
Well, then you get the puppy and the puppy quies in the pen.
He quies and quies and quies.
And the truth is you don't want to go in that pen either.
It's kind of too small.
So you go in there like the first day or two, but then you're like, ugh.
I don't want to be in the pen.
Well, and the puppy doesn't want to be without you because again, he's a
baby kidnapped from another planet.
He wants to be with you.
He doesn't feel secure.
He needs you right next to him so he can start to realize this is his new family.
So, Um, so the best setup is if you make a little puppy apartment.
It needs to be smaller than the house, bigger than a pen.
And so the ideal thing is, I love to get clients, if we can sort of do
gates on the kitchen or something.
This becomes sort of a big problem, a lot of people have these beautiful open plan
homes and that becomes kind of a problem, but you can get, there are great products
out there that you won't hate, that are kind of beautiful, that can be temporary.
Remember this is all temporary.
But if you can section off your house and create.
A lovely space where you are happy hanging out with your puppy for
the first few weeks, maybe two months, then you are going to, boy,
is everything going to be easier.
Potty training is going to come easily.
Um, chewing and biting on the kids is going to come easily because you've
got a management system in place.
The, the kids come down, it's exciting.
The puppy can't get into the pattern of getting paws up on the kids and
mouth Mouth dragging those pants because you've got the gate there.
So it gives you a chance to get your act together and ask for something.
Play a little, find it, ask for a little sit, play a little, find it, ask
for a little sit, puppy gets used to.
Oh, listening to words is rewarding for me.
This is fun.
And all four, four, um, paws are on the floor.
If you're playing, find it.
And that mouth is directed to the ground.
If you're playing, find it.
Now your four year old can come into the area, continue playing, find it.
And they got into a good pattern.
Later, in a few weeks, you won't even need to be doing that because the pattern
when the kid comes into the room is, Oh, we walk around, I stay on the floor.
They never got into the pattern of jumping and biting.
And the jumping and biting, all that is, is the puppy's need for engagement.
That's how puppies engage with each other.
They're simply engaging with you.
You're all they've got.
Of course, they're going to engage.
Jump up and use their teeth.
It's up to us to teach this little alien from another planet
how we do it on planet human.
And so you just need tricks up your sleeve like that.
You need to set up some management, set up your puppy apartment,
and then have some ideas.
You got to anticipate how you're going to teach this puppy to succeed in this world.
And you need to understand and totally expect that he's going to come at you
as a dog, not as a little baby human.
And so if you set him up for a bunch of yeses, he's Remove the nose.
Like, so that puppy apartment is not filled with stuff for him
to chew and pee on and destroy.
Instead, it's filled with great toys for him, appropriate chew items, so he begins
to develop all the patterns, all the good patterns we want to see him doing,
which is Chewing on the right stuff.
Of course he's going to chew.
Make sure he's got good stuff to chew on.
Of course he's going to want to engage with you.
Make sure you're ready to engage with him in a way that you like,
that isn't just him coming at you.
Anyway, so, that kind of, all those expectations and being able to manage
that scenario, those things are the things that kind of, um, smooth
people into being able to enjoy that puppyhood instead of constantly being
surprised by how hard you're doing this.
Anke: Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
Because it does kind of reframe the whole thing.
You, it throws it in your face, that little, like, that bit of compassion
that's like, yeah, put yourself in, like, empathy, like, put yourself into that
little puppy's shoes and see, like, How much change there has been for them, you
know, like something that I hear a lot, uh, that people say, yeah, you know,
like the sleeping arrangement, right?
You know, there's like funny memes.
It's like, oh yeah, no, the dogs can sleep in the, in the,
in the, you know, in the crate.
And then, you know, then at the end of the day, the dog cries and
the dog kind of ends up sleeping.
So like, what's your, what's your take on like, should the puppies, because
you know, if the puppies in, in, it's.
Kathy: So what I try to do in this book is free you up because every
dog's an individual, every human's an individual, households are different.
So I try not to be too prescriptive of exactly how you should
go about a situation like a puppy on their first night.
But what I do want to do is free you up to do what feels right to you.
And for me.
100 percent that is bringing that puppy in bed with me.
Um, because I'm happy with that.
My husband's happy with that.
We're cool.
Our dogs are fine with that.
So it works for us.
But guess what?
That doesn't work for everyone.
Um, what I will say I want everyone to do is not leave that
puppy alone that first night.
That is absolutely too shocking.
So for a lot of folks, what works, um, you know, maybe their partner
doesn't want a dog in the bed.
Maybe they don't want the dog in the bedroom for whatever
reasons, you know, people have their reasons for those things.
That's okay.
But the.
But that first night, the first few nights, maybe the first week, while
that puppy is really confused and wondering what the heck is up, you need
to be by that puppy's side at night.
And so one thing that can work just fine is if you're sleeping downstairs
on the couch, that maybe, maybe he's in a crate and the crate's right
next to the couch and you are just comforting him through the night.
You're like, you're okay, you're okay.
And you're putting your little fingers through, um, Um, the, the create and
soothing him and that can be just fine.
So the point is, as you say, that word empathy.
is your guiding light.
So you figure it out, but have empathy for this dog.
So you can be down on the couch next to the crate.
You can have him on your chest while you're down on the couch.
You can, you can sleep in the pen with him if you want.
You can, um, you could have him, there are tiny little carriers.
You could put that on your bed in between you so he's kind of confined
and you're not worried about pee.
So the reason people don't want a dog in bed with them because
they think that dogs only pee.
Here's what's interesting.
So Tom and I often, um, have an eight week old puppy sleeping all
night with us and it's not a problem.
And, um, here is the thing.
The bed itself kind of works as a crate in that, um, they, they do feel a little
trapped on the bed cause it's too high and at that age they kind of can't jump off.
So they're sort of stuck in a little space and dogs want to be naturally clean.
Like I see it even in a three week old.
Like if I have a mom who's given birth here and the little three weeks old
are starting to eliminate by themselves and they start to crawl around.
I will see them crawl off their little mat onto the floor to
eliminate, turn around and crawl back.
These guys have barely opened their eyes, barely opened their
ears, but their natural instinct not to eliminate where they live.
is going strong already.
So that is true in an eight week old as well, unless they've been
screwed up by, by a bad puppy mill or something where they never had
the option of a clean and a dirty.
Anyway, I digress.
So normal puppies at eight weeks really do, if they, they don't want to eliminate
right where they're sleeping and living.
So if you put them on the bed with you, That, that, that kind of works,
like they will sort of hold it, um, and then, here's the thing, at 5 in
the morning or whatever, so you can't expect them to hold it for 8 hours, but
you know what, they're gonna hold it for 6 most often, and so we will go to
bed at 11, and lights out, we're quiet.
Um, and they will snuggle into our nooks and crannies, just like they used
to snuggle in with their litter mates.
And they feel happy.
You can almost feel them sighing like, okay, I know what this is.
This is all right.
And they can relax.
Um, but then at five in the morning, they start walking around.
You better get out there.
So there is no time for your own bathroom break.
I hate to break it to you.
Do not think that you can stop at the bathroom, put the puppy down because
the puppy will pee the second those, those four feet are on the ground.
So you need to scoot outside to the bathroom area at five in the morning.
But my point is just that that you can sleep in your own bed with that
puppy right from the beginning and you probably are going to be able
to have about six hours of sleep.
Lots of people think that they, a lot of people set the alarm for
like two or and four because they think the puppy has to eliminate.
The thing is, the puppy will go, like if you wake them up and you take them
outside, of course they're going to pee.
But often, and then you think, oh shoot, they really do have to
pee in the middle of the night.
They don't really have to, usually.
It's just that if you give them the opportunity, they will.
But I can promise you we do it all the time when we, and
it's when we have a last puppy.
So we call it last puppy syndrome.
So if somebody hasn't been picked yet out of the litter, that one gets to
get pulled more into our regular life.
And so that one will end up rather sleeping than sleeping with the puppies
in the puppy den since they're gone now.
We'll pull that one with us.
And I promise you, we've done this with, I can't even tell you
how many puppies over the years.
They typically go 11 to 5.
And we, you know, you don't feed them, you have to be a little careful, just like,
you know, think about how this works.
If you give them a giant meal at 10, they're not going to make it all night.
But if the last time you feed them.
is about 6 at night and if you're gonna go to bed at 11 and you're
gonna make sure that you give them a big chance to romp around at 10.
30 and truly eliminate and that doesn't mean you know you can't just open the door
and say hey do you have to go and assume that a puppy will go out and go no no no
no no you have to go out put on your shoes Maybe it's raining, you have to go out
yourself, and if you move around, they're going to go ahead and empty themselves.
And that gives you, that increases your odds of having a nice long
sleep because they will be fully empty by the time you, you attempt
that, that, uh, that big effort.
Actually, this is fun.
This is
Anke: hilarious because I think like, when I remember like, my
first one later was exactly that.
And I remember my dad, like, my parents looked after them for a couple of
days, like shortly after he came.
You've got to see him.
And he looked at me like, what happened?
He goes, well, he was asleep like at 11 in the morning.
Right.
And I speak to my mom and she goes, well, like Leo would kind of
like, he'd scratch at the door and every day he goes, Ooh, this works.
So he'd scratch on the inside.
They had him in the bedroom with him.
But so he kind of like, and then we'll get up.
And then the day after he scratched five minutes earlier and every day
he scratched a little earlier and in the end Dev was like up at three
and so he would go back to bed.
But it's like totally that kind of six hours.
I do remember that with all the, all the brothers that have come really young.
It's, yeah, it's, it's, and I think, yeah, empathy is really what it comes.
And that's why I love this, the book title so much because it really
kind of throws it in your face.
Like you can't kind of unsee it almost, you know, actually looking at.
Kathy: I think that's right.
Right.
I think that's what people tell me is that it does just, it's like
it flips a switch in your brain.
And that's the whole thing I wanted to do was because if you have flipped
that switch and you have that empathy operating, you're not going to get so mad.
And you're going to be able to see things more clearly, and you're
going to be able to set stuff up.
It's really about anticipating who this little puppy is and setting it
up so that she can have her needs met.
Like, of course, she's going to need to be outside, and she's going to
need to play, and she's going to need to sniff, and she's going to need to
dig, and she's going to need to chew.
So if you just put in your five minutes of thinking, The night before, what
am I going to do for her tomorrow?
How does she get to be a dog tomorrow?
Your life is going to be so much better if instead of that, you thought you
could just go ahead with your regular life and have a, a movie puppy.
A little fluff.
You
Anke: know, like, you know, sometimes you think, well, if that bothers you,
that you have to get out, like, yeah, get a stuffed toy, don't get a dog.
You know?
This is the end of the day.
This is it.
Yeah, puppies, such a short amount of time, like, you know, we were
just talking, it's like, oh, you turn around twice and they're big, right?
It's like, I think it's the time to enjoy them also when they
grow up, when they're so little.
Kathy: Absolutely right.
It is so fleeting.
And that's one of the things that I try to talk to people is that
if you, the happiest puppy people.
Who turned into the happiest adult dog people are the people who dive in for
those first six months, maybe a year, particularly the first six months.
If you dive in and, and just, Make yourself enjoy it.
And to do that, it means you're going to have to put some
things on the back burner.
You are going to have to put some of your social life, maybe some of your
work, some of your exercise, some of, you know, you're going to have to
put some things on the back burner.
Um, but here's what I find.
I find that, at least for me, what happens is once you, uh, rearrange
the burners that way, You're happier.
And it, what, what puppyhood can often give you is a permanent
rearrangement of those burners where you realize, Oh wait, hang on.
I have more outside time, more walking time, more time with my
family, more time relaxing at home.
Because what's great for dogs is hanging out.
And a lot of that stuff is great for humans too.
And it can be great for your mental health, great for your relationships,
and um, but I find so many of us have trouble letting go of the busy, busy,
busy lifestyle we're leading, that we instead resent the puppy for having needs.
The puppy's barking, uh, what does he need, what does he need?
And we resent that because it pulls us away from That's what?
From scrolling?
What is it pulling us away from?
Anyway, um, I just find that if you can get into the right headspace,
understand this is a puppy, he's going to have regular puppy needs,
and throw yourselves into that.
Guess what?
You're going to get the joy that comes from interspecies communication.
relationship.
Like, I personally find it's not that fun.
Like, I don't understand the kind of people who want to just dominate
a dog and have a little robot next to them doing exactly what they say.
I certainly do train, I'm a trainer for goodness sake.
I do train dogs and I absolutely, I train sit down, stay,
he'll come, all that stuff.
In my view, the way I train that stuff is to enhance our relationship.
It's not so that the dog will blindly follow me all the time.
It's basically like a game we do together that increases.
like lubricates our communication together, that I teach these
words, they figure out what it is.
Those words tend to, um, you know, uh, mean that they get
all sorts of great stuff.
You know, there'll be a sit before we go on a big walk.
There'll be a, um, wait before I open the car, which is going
to take them to the park.
You know, there's good, those words and their cooperation with
those words brings a bunch of.
reward to those dogs.
And so we are living together in a world, we are communicating
together, we understand each other.
And that's just a delight.
If that's not a delight for you, I just don't have at all.
Like, yeah, I just, it is so much fun.
And you will, you will learn so much more if you're open to it, to who this
individual dog is, you will, Learn so much about yourself and about, you know,
every dog has something to teach you.
If instead you have this vision of exactly who this little puppy has to grow up to
be and exactly the behaviors this dog has to do, you're going to be frustrated
and you're also going to miss it.
You're going to miss That's who this dog actually is because you will be
suppressing all this dog's natural behavior and replacing it with this
stuff you're trying super hard to, um, push down the dog's throat.
And it's just It's
Anke: similar with kids when you think about it, right?
Yep.
It's the same thing, like, people, when you have, you know, oh, I want
the kid to be a dancer, and the kid doesn't, doesn't want to be a dancer,
you've got the same problem, right?
So you can, you, you, you know, and I always looked at whatever I kind of
teach the dogs, like, the only purpose this really has is to keep the dog safe.
You know, like, what's the only reason I don't want them
to run out, like, the door?
It's because there could be a car coming or, like, something could happen.
Like, it's almost like for them to listen to me saying, wait, or stop, or whatever.
The only purpose it has for me is, like, to make sure I can keep you
safe because you're living in a human environment, you know, so that
you need to know a few things to basically get through a life, you know?
Kathy: That's, that's really right.
And also, um, to make sure that, you know, you are in a human world and the dog's
life is going to be better if other humans in general feel positively about the dog.
So in that sense, you also don't want your dog jumping all over
your guests and jumping up because you want all that to go well.
Um, And that does sort of extend the safety of the dog I suppose.
Um, and then the other thing is it's just something to do together.
Like if you're sitting there and it's a rainy day and you can't go for a
big hike and you can't do, guess what?
You know what you can do?
You can sit on the couch and you can play ping pong.
Leslie, Leslie McDevitt's little fun ping pong game where you're playing
find it and going back and forth and asking for a little trick in the middle.
Stuff like that.
Those little.
Training games.
It's just like playing Bananagrams with your kids.
Like, it's a thing to do to pass the time.
Here we are on earth together.
There are going to be a few laughs.
When you sit around and you play games with your kids, you laugh.
You build your relationship.
You get to know each other a little bit better.
Yes, there's a little brain growth that happens as well.
And it's the same for me with training with dogs, as I'm doing
it for that fun reason as well.
But I'm really not doing it because I insist on having a dog who performs
at a certain level doing exactly these things just like my old dog, you know?
I want there to be a lot of room for this dog to be who this dog really is.
Anke: I love that.
So where can people go and get the book, find out more about you?
Sure.
You know, stalk you on Instagram.
Sure.
Kathy: Yes.
Okay.
So the fun thing to do is stalk me on Instagram when I have a foster litter.
So my Instagram is puppy pics.
I think it's puppy.
pix, P U P P Y dot pix, P I C K S.
Um, and that's fun when I do have a foster litter.
So this, this spring I took in a pregnant mom, had seven puppies.
They were a delight.
They, so you can watch their whole growth and they still come for, to play at
my house, which is awfully fun for me.
They're about 12 weeks old now.
Um, so that's Instagram.
I'm also on Facebook.
I'm Kathy.
Gord Callahan at Facebook, and I do post there all those puppies as well.
And sometimes I put, I will also post some training videos
and training tips there too.
But then the big thing is the book.
The book is Welcoming Your Puppy from Planet Dog, and you can get it
wherever you like to get your books.
My website is www.
puppypics.
com.
P U P P Y P I C K S dot com.
And I'd love to connect with you.
Anke: Thank you so much.
This was delightful.
I could talk copies with you all day long.
I know, right?
Right?
Such a great topic.
Such a brilliant topic.
So thank you so much.
And you know, I might get you back on.
Awesome.
You know, we'll, we'll find another.
I actually have already an idea, but we'll talk about that offline.
So thank you.
Thank you so much.
Kathy: All right.
Nice to be here.
Thank you.
Bye.
Thanks so much for listening.
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